From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Kenny Jow)
Subject: Re: Rave Culture & Sexuality
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 00:59:36
...I thought I'd begin a thread on a topic that rarely seems to come up..that of sexuality. I'm curious to know everyone's feelings about the effects of ecstasy and the rave vibe, in general, on the libido. Is rave culture on the front line of a NEW and IMPROVED sexual revolution? Is bisexuality/gay activity more prevalent within the scene?.. or are people just more open about it?
The effects of XTC usually have NOTHING to do with becoming aroused. That is a MYTH that has been around for quite some time now, I heard it about two years ago. The Rave Vibe? You can feel it once you start attending enough raves...I guess my explanation of it is how it makes people want to DANCE no matter where they are when they hear techno. NEW and IMPROVED sexual revolution? No...the rave culture is many people brought together by their love (hopefully) for techno music. Well, I don't really know about bisexuality/gay activity more prevalent, but I have seen it a few times, and I don't mind it. Attend a few raves and get the real picture, this text can hardly describe a rave experience...
Subject: re:raves & sexuality
Date: 12 JUL 95 01:56:45 AST
i like to think of rave culture as a precursor to a new sexual revolution, one that will hopefully see the daewn of a cure for AIDS/HIV. realistically, i don't think it's likely to happen. While changes in attitude about sexulaity are obvious in our generation generally, they seem to be particularly pronounced in rave culture. i once had a discussion with my brother who attended the rave night i used to dj at our local meat market in our small town (45000), came to a few of the raves i began to put on indedpendently then stopped going altogether. what i discovered in the course of this conversation was that he didn't like the raves because they weren't like the club nights, that he didn't like to party with underagers. after some intellectual probing on my part, what i learned was that he and i enjoyed the music on a similar level but the experience of raving, being a part of rave culture was not what he was looking for. what he wanted was to be able to enjoy good music (don't we all?) AND possibly meet a potential mate. i argued that this wasn't the purpose of raves. i still contend that they are places where we can create our own little utopias for a few hours. we can erase things like racial prejudice, homophobia and senseless violence and attitudes like his showed that we need work on the sexism part. i'm not saying people can't mingle and pair off at raves, but that it shouldn't a primary reason for going anymore than drugs should be.
From: email@example.com (Amy R Starkey)
Subject: Re: Rave Culture & Sexuality
Date: 12 Jul 1995 20:25:50 GMT
So, I have never gone to "pick up", and really I never felt that was part of the scene. However, recently I went with a single friend, and he was definately into meeting someone. That got me to wondering if my vision of this happy, innoffensive, anti-meatmarket was in fact a rose coloured illusion I had been living. Thoughts?
The anti-meatmarket is NOT an illusion in my world or the social circles I'm in. When at a rave or rave type party, whether on e or not, I see the crowd as a collection of beautiful human beings, not male or female, not gorgeous or ugly. Just a bunch of beautiful people. I don't get picked up on and I don't go around trying to meet guys with an ulterior motive on my mind. When on e, I like to hold hands and cuddle with men AND women - and I am as heterosexual as they get. Sometimes I get confused outside of raves, though, if a man is interested in me, I can't tell if he is flirting or is just being really nice. So, with the rave vibe ingrained in my soul, I look at it as him just being really nice. So if a man *were* interested in more than just hanging out as friends, he'd have to let me know - just as I let them know when I'm interested. That's what I'm going through.
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (SmilyBear)
Subject: Re: Rave Culture & Sexuality
Date: 12 Jul 1995 23:42:20 -0400
This is a HUGE question.....I am gay, and recently started going to parties. I should point out that I'm out of the closet and am extremely comfortable with my sexuality before proceeding. When I got to my first party, the first thing I noticed was that when my raving boyfriend grabbed my hand (ostensibly to make sure I wouldn't go into shock or something), NO ONE CARED! This is unusual in any circuit, but time after time, rave after rave, party after party, not a soul has indicated that our "gay" behavior is a problem. Which is interesting. So I started paying more attention to things. Like the other gays at parties (many of them I know from the clubs in town or from private parties). There are many of them. Easily the 5 to 10 percent the scientists claim exist in society in general. But at raves, the lines between gay, bi, and straight are a little more blurred, I think. This is MY opinion, and it's quite subjective.
In any case, do gays exist at raves? Yes, in droves.
Are we accepted? It is my experience we are.
Is the rave culture more sexually "open"? Its acceptance of me tends to indicate (to me) that it is.
Do people get laid at or after raves? Yes, it is my experience that a number of my newly-acquired raver friends have gone home with people they've met and have had oftentimes fabulous sex. Gay and straight. Boyz and girlz. Twos, threes, fours, etc.
Is this behavior related to drug intake? Calculated guess, but I don't think so. At least not to the extent that it occurs at the clubs (gay and straight) in town.
This issue is amazingly complex, and I am always fascinated by it, given society's general dislike of gays (OK, that could be a rough generalization, but maybe not). What do the ravers think? Sex at parties? Gays at parties? Good or bad? Or just an occurrence? Anybody ever wanted to pound a queer at a party? Anybody every wanted to hug one?
Enough of the rambling. Peace and love to all. Smily
From: email@example.com (Ralph Moonen)
Subject: Re: Rave Culture & Sexuality
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:56:18 +0200
The situation in Europe (specifically the Netherlands, where I'm from) is very different. First, homosexuality is pretty much accepted. In clubs, at parties, on the streets. So I'm not going to make a distinction betweem homo hetero or bi, simply because the distinction is very vague in the party-scene.
In any case, do gays exist at raves? Yes, in droves. Are we accepted? It is my experience we are. Is the rave culture more sexually "open"? Its acceptance of me tends to indicate (to me) that it is.
You bet it is (in the Netherlands).
Do people get laid...?
Yes, it is also my experience that that happens :-) My girlfriend and I have more than once ended up with each other or others in our of someoneelses bed (or couch :-) after a party.
The relation to drug intake (esp MDMA) in my experience is that MDMA in the first couple of hours reduces sex-drive to a near-zero point. However, after a couple of hours, it comes back with a vengeance. Not only is it highly pleasurable, but stamina is way up, and we can go on for hours (literally: once we started at 07:30 when we got back from a party, didn't stop till 15:00, with only a small break for a bite to eat.). I don't orgasm untill I want to, which has proven a very pleasurable side effect of MDMA.
Sex at parties?
Sometimes, but only when the general vibe is OK. I would feel uncomfortable finding a place to screw at a rave if there were too many 16-year olds around.
Gays at parties? Good or bad?
Good. Gays give parties a happy vibe IMO. Dunno, they just seem to be more open and honest about things, and that is what raves are about anyway.
But maybe the European scene is not comparable to the US....
From: Dale Walker <Dale@virus-mc.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Rave Culture & Sexuality
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 02:05:23 GMT
I went to a rave once with the intention of picking up someone.
It was impossible!
The problem was that I liked everyone so much I couldn't decide which one to go for so I just danced my nuts off and hugged as many people as possible! It's lots more fun dancing and hugging with girls than trying to pick them up when at a rave.
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Jason Thomas)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 16:10:50 GMT
When I started going to raves I thought it was a bit like the 60s music and cultural revolution - but without the sex.
I've modified that view a little since I've seen the behaviour of some of my single and not-so-single friends.
As usual I think it depends more on the type of person you are, and the type of night you're at. But speaking from personal experience, when I "chat up" a girl I'm usually flirting outrageously (as I hope they are), with no intention of taking it further. But I'm also Meeting New People, which is another raison d'etre of the whole movement.
I currently have a girlfriend - so I'm never likely to take anything any further. However, if I didn't, and I thought she might be into a bit of extra-cirrucular activities, I probably wouldn't shirk.
BUT I DON'T GO TO SCORE. And I hope nobody else does either - that's the difference I think between clubs these days and the cattle markets of the early- mid-80s.
Date: 25 Jul 1995 01:25:06 GMT
From: Bryan_T._Ogden@atlmug.org (Bryan T. Ogden)
What I wanted to say was thanks to the tribe for making the intimate rave scene a place to dance in celebration, a place of warm emotional exchange - a place of happy light social chats and deep talks too. And I discovered something really fun about myself -I love to watch women dance without the need to have them sexually. The same goes for watching men too. I just like watching people express thier souls through dancing. It makes me grin.
From: email@example.com (Sturm)
Subject: difference between RAVES and PARTIES
Date: 20 Feb 1996 10:01:45 GMT
Yes, it has just occurred to me what the difference between raves and normal parties/clubs is. Sex doesn't play a key role.
Now, i may be going out on a weird tangent here, but at a 'normal' club or party, sex is always an undertone. You see ppl dirty-dancing, or guys/gals trying to chat up possible partners at the bar. Sex seems to be a hidden tension behind how everyone acts and behaves.
At a rave, nobody gives a shit. Gays are accepted, couples are accepted, singles are accepted. No-one's going to a rave to pick up anyone else. You go for the atmosphere, the plur. I'd even go as far as to say: I think the world is suffering because of this underlying sexual tension. Perhaps the reason why ppl enjoy themselves so much at raves, is because for most ppl, that's the only place they feel free!
ps: i know it was corny. who carez?
From: XEQR34A@prodigy.com (Joseph Palmieri)
Subject: Re: difference between RAVES and PARTIES
Date: 21 Feb 1996 04:35:37 GMT
I totally agree with you! Raves are definitely not "meat markets" like
other club parties. At raves you meet alot of people and enjoy the scene.
Sex really dosen't play a part at all!! Don't get me wrong,I love hot
women, but at a rave, I just want to jam and make new friends and have a
good time. You never see, what I call "guidos" at raves. You know, the
guys who stand around thinking they are god's gift to women. Raves are
total freedom! You come with many, you come alone, either way you manage
to have a great time and meet loads of people who are all on the same
page as you are.
Peace Planet Soul
From: Your Name here
Subject: Re: Female on "E"
Date: 27 Feb 1996 21:37:16 GMT
I'm a 25 year old who 2 days ago attended my first rave. I've read alot about raves and "E". Nobody has mentioned the intence sexual feelings that I felt. Does these feelings happen to females aswell? If so how do they hide it. One of the females we were with had 2 orgasims while urinating.
I think that people try to not mention the sexual feelings a lot because that's not what rave is all about (at least from everybody that *I* know). Taking E at a rave definitely feels great and yeah, it makes you feel VERY sexual, but I think that the *happiness* that comes from the e and the vibe and meeting people overshadows the sexual feelings. Mainstream culture distorts raves and purports them to be huge orgies with young girls who've snuck out of their house and are having sex with 10 men and women at once....and that's REALLY not the crux of rave. The nadir of emotions is still in your brain, it's not hopelessly connected to your genitals.....
But yeah, at Funky Techno Tribe in October, I had an orgasm because I was writing in my journal, trying to write down everything that I was thinkning about to my friend. It definitely makes you horny, But it can be ignored just like in "real life" :) Love, Kitten
Something fascinating has occurred to me regarding the rave scene, and I
was wondering if anyone else experiences this:
I'm quite certain that, for the most part, not a single hour of the day goes by without sexual thoughts crossing my mind. So it's perplexing to me that, when I'm at a party, and there are wall-to-wall beautiful, friendly, sexy people, not a single sexual thought crosses my mind! Can anyone relate? Any thoughts on why this might be?
It's just the normal tantric re-alignment of genital energy into raw full-on total-body consciousness expansion. Err..well, i dunno, that's what the aliens told me! :) I have been trying to figure this one out too! happy strangeness, brad
Hey... just like to comment on the subject of sex and raves- first, i love to watch people dance, sweat, have a great time at parties. the reason why i go to raves is for a spiritual, body-transcending experience. yet, we all know how incredibly attracted we can be to people when we dance. the thing is, what do we think when we're attracted? i think not of DOING something TO the person- rather, i just want to CONNECT WITH the person, to share (kisses, hugs, the occasional backrub). to deny that i'm sexually attracted to a person of the opposite sex at raves would be dishonest, but i wouldn't be caught dead at a party grinding away like a cheeseball idiot. that shit is completely out of place at a rave.
also, i would NEVER choose any physical connection over a potential spiritual connection. Raves are religious, primal and transcendent experiences. shallow physicality would destroy the vibe and defeat the whole purpose of raves......
thanks for taking in my two bits:)
much love & joy,
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 01:03:16 -0700
From: John Kawamoto <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: GAYS @ RAVES (Long Response)
First of all, I couldn't help but respond to this message because I ABSOLUTELY LOVE our scene and ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE in it! Through your positive energy and love you all have changed my life in such a positive way that words cannot describe it and for that I will be eternally grateful. My purpose and message in this post is to purely offer my opinion on this topic and NOT to start a negative email campaign.
I believe that there are already a representative portion of people, possibly more?, at raves who consider themselves gay, lesbian, bi, etc. I wouldn't say I'm unique but I used to consider myself to be 100% gay and now consider myself to be bi...you always hear about people who thought they were 100% straight and then realize that they are gay or bi but rarely, if ever?, the other way around! I think that the question of "How can we draw more gays (or more of any group) into our scene?" should be re-phrased into "How can we draw THOSE PEOPLE who are on a search, a SPIRITUAL MISSION, to find the answers to their life's questions into our scene?". We all know that PART of what makes our scene extremely special and sacred is the fact that there is no emphasis whatsoever on sex, sexuality, race, religion, etc. When we gather at parties we become ONE...there is no gay/straight, man/woman, white/black, old/young, rich/poor etc...we simply see each other as beautiful people and ultimately we can become one pure energy mass of love. This is what drew me to the scene and not whether or not I would find other gay, bi-sexual, straight, etc. people at raves. I had become so disillusioned at the spiritual emptiness of the clubs in general that I felt as if I were losing my soul. I would be with friends but it was extremely hard to give off positive energy when all I would hear is people trying to pick on someone or impress a date/friend by cutting up on other people for who they were or what they were wearing or what they looked like.
I know that not everyone is ready or wants to receive what our scene has to offer, some would even seek to misuse or destroy it, however, we must have compassion and love for those who harm us since they deserve as much as anyone else to be a part of our vision and hope of a future world where there is no want and no pain. A world where the young, old and sick are taken care of. A world where the environment is whole again.
Well, I've said enough and hopefully the right stuff!? I would just like to close out with a small message to all of you, men and women, whom I consider to be my friend whether or not we've met:
Please understand that when I offer a piece of candy or a massage, I do it out of my LOVE in my heart for YOU and I expect absolutely NOTHING in return, not even a thank you...I just LOVE to give and do not want or expect any recognition or praise. I know that when I give you LOVE, it's contagious and causes you, in turn, to pass it on to others and so on and so on! That's what that positive vibe is all about! Nonetheless, I completely understand if any of you are uncomfortable about your new found knowledge about me. Please know that I will NOT use the usual excuse of, "Well, I guess that person wasn't my friend anyway!" because I will always love you as my friend with all my heart forever.
Peace and Love!