From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 01:09:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id BAA29535; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:09:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom3.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id BAA29528; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:08:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom3.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id BAA04246; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:08:55 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:08:55 -0800 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199612010908.BAA04246@netcom3.netcom.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: thanksgiving thanks (saturn5) Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I wanted to thank everyone who came out to Thanksgiving this past Thursday night. It really sucks that we were busted, but being the only party in town meant we were the only thing for the cops to harrass. Oh well! :) We eventually moved to Berkeley, and despite the fact that the visuals didn't come with us, we still had a rockin' time!!! :) We had great music, wonderful people, and lots of Chai! This was the first party by saturn5, and it's certainly not the last! Furture saturn5 parties will continue to have more of an emphasis on multimedia and visual art, looking at raving as eye candy for a cyber-culture. Also, we're looking into having permitted parties in San Francisco, so we can avoid all of this police nonsense. :) We'll be working with a local space owner to bring their warehouse up to safety and legal standards for permitting. There are other exciting plans (shhh!) for the next party(s), so keep your ears and eyes open for future saturn5 events! I also wanted thank the following people for all of their hard work, and for putting up with the aggravation of getting busted: - Randy Cone from Dionysus Dreams for the excellent visuals and lighting - Greg Sandler from Harmony for his techno-riffic intellibeams - Crystal from Dimension 7 for her impromptu video mixing - Gateway Systems for top notch sound (as always!) - Dave from Insite Lighting for last minute blacklights - Nub Chai Circus for coming up to serve the elixir of life - Jon Logan, John Carel, Mystr-E, Anna (Anon), and Warren Parker for spinning some bad-ass sets! :) and thanks to the rest of the crew who helped out (couldn't have done it without ya!). AND especially to David Lowe and Sarah for putting up with me! :) You guys *rock*. I hope everyone enjoyed the dinner as much as I did. :) Even though Raw could not cater due to scheduling conlicts, the all-vegan buffet dinner really kicked ass! Hopefully, we'll continue to serve more yummy organic food in the future. :) Again, thanks for coming out and supporting saturn5, and we'll see you at the next event! Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com saturn5@cyborganic.net | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | "I hope the rest of the country falls off the bay area." - D. Lowe | | operators are standing by : 415-626-5074 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 01:59:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id BAA02381; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:59:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id BAA02371; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:59:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from 207.171.196.163 [207.171.196.163] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vU8g9-0002sv-00; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:59:18 -0800 Message-ID: <32A15754.CFB@slip.net> Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 02:00:51 -0800 From: Jake Organization: Ghostribe X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Larry Ching CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Who was UBIQUITOUS ? References: <199612010635.WAA19460@netcom23.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk CR power threw Ubiquitous, they are out of livermore mostly, the valley. They sure tricked us!! They asked if they could put our logo on the flyer, we told 'em yes 'cause the party was *FREE* which we happily support...buutttt, we were decieved. Oh well, life does go on, Jake from Ghostribe Larry Ching wrote: > > Hi SFRaves - > > For the information of the SFRaves readers - can someone(s) list who > the promoters of UBIQUITOUS are ? > > Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 06:16:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id GAA20511; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 06:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from Kitten.mcs.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id GAA20505; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 06:16:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from arduous (arduous.pr.mcs.net [205.164.41.157]) by Kitten.mcs.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA02194; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 08:16:28 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 96 07:20:20 PST From: matter Subject: revu: Fiasco Revisited To: mw-raves , sfraves X-MAILER: Chameleon 4.6, TCP/IP for Windows, NetManage Inc. X-PRIORITY: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey everybody and O ma gawd! WoooooooWoooooo! Detroit is in the mutha-phuckin' House! So r u wondering if matter is going to say this was the best par-tay, yet [agin]? Mai oui, mon amis. "The best phuckin' par-tay, yet!" Here's the synapsis... uh, synopsis ;) Connected at Pizza Papalis in Greektown [around 10:40p Detroit time]. BTW, this used to be a really great place for 'za and good service. Sadly, is no longer the case. I wouldn't recommend it agin, unless new mgmt or sumthin' changes. Meeting for dinner (I do the best I can here, pleez slap me): MikeyD, Gage, Tom, Ed, Kevin and Amy (dam, I gotta learn some of those name-tricks, cuz I know I'm forgetting several ppl). Great 2 meet u new friends/see you all agin! Musta been around 12:00a, by the time we cut out... Arrived at the space shortly from greektown. We parked and mosied our way to the entrance. While waiting in line, I noticed a strange (yet familiar) hissing sound. Hmmm, someone must have a leak in a tire or something ;). Now, the weather was fair (slight rain misting) and not too cold, but the line was moving way slow and it must have taken us 1.5 hours to get to the door. Upon entering we we're told that this par-tay which had been "hyped" as being a $5 event was now going to cost $10. Hmmmm, with all due respect to Poorboy in Detroit -> you can't do that! Plain and simple: that is just wrong. To change the advertised price of the par-tay at the door is not kewl. Especially with all of the emphasis which was placed on it being a $5 ("not a typo") event. Whatever... When they asked me for $10, I jus' told 'em all I had was $5 and I came from Chicago and "u can't do that". They were kewl about it and after a trouble-free search, I was in! ;) IMHO -> some ppl have gripes about security and such, I think it's all good, don't want to take the chance on some moron bringin' a gun or something into the place... Da Shit itself: I know I always say this was the best one yet! ;) Honestly, It's nice that I made it to Blessings last Wednesday in Chicago, 'cause otherwise Detroit woulda put Chicago to shame (Blessing was the first really vibey Chicago par-tay I have experienced in years). I'm just talking vibe...not music, here. Detroit has the shit going on! :D Very simple lighting, nothing fancy: a few strobes, some green floods. Nice sound. The booty room coulda been a bit bigger, but oh well... The people were so damn nice and friendly! :D Lots of hugs and love flowing all around! ;) I don't know what 2 say, what else is there. I had a great time at this one and send out big love to all of the ppl who were involved w/ this one! :D I wish I could do a better job revu-ing the DJs, however, I will simply say they were all dam good and innovative. There was one guy, (I think) Derrick who provided some great techno (ahh). The thing went until 7:00a or so. Nice. ;) Besides the ppl already mentioned from the pre-par-tay net.meet, I also gotta say it was kewl meeting Micheal, Dianna, "Troyee" and everyone else I am forgetting (duh). Here's a little something this par-tay inspired in me: As we move closer, we grow. So much is said without words, Perhaps we have met before. In another time, another place. We can remember all that we have forgotten. Regenerating the good that exists within all, Bound by reality and dimension. Our understanding of our world becomes clearer, As we open up to ways of thought Not so unlike our own. PLUR -> Rage, matter "I'm a Sagitarrius, the most philosophical of all of the signs, but I don't believe in it. I think it's a buncha bullshit, myself." - James Douglas Morrison - music - _ _ _| _ _ _ _ | _ _ _|| | || || || ||_ | || || ||_|| ||_ |_|| |_||_||_||_| _| | ||_||_ ||_ |_| _| http://www.mcs.net/~arduous/ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 08:33:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id IAA28113; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 08:33:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from PACBELL.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA28096; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 08:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (pablin@ppp-206-170-4-17.wnck11.pacbell.net [206.170.4.17]) by PACBELL.net (8.7.6/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA02208 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 08:32:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961201162335.006b9d78@pacbell.net> X-Sender: pablin@pacbell.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 08:23:35 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Pablo Beck Subject: BE HERE NOW! -some feedback :) Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone! :) I just thought I should share my experience with you guys.. The place had a lot of people and a lot of NEGATIVE attitudes. It was scary... yet...I was on two hits of E and some shrooms so I was having a blast! ;) which reminds me... People, NEVER smoke cigarretes when you are shrooming as hard I was.. I had a bad trip :( and I guess I couldn't get out of it cause the energy was not Positive at all... :( I did have fun and I did not think I wasted $25 :) in fact, I take pride of everysingle penny I spent! :P Anyhow... who else was there anyway? luv to allz Pab PS: G'nite ;) just got home, I'm not waking up 'till monday morning ;) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 10:21:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA05093; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 10:21:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA05083; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 10:21:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from 13474597.mcoe.k12.ca.us (ts1-slns-ppp12.salinas.net [205.179.129.42]) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.7.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA17161; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 10:33:05 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 10:33:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199612011833.KAA17161@lettuce.salinas.net> X-Sender: silver@salinas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jake , Larry Ching From: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" Subject: Re: Who was UBIQUITOUS ? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >> For the information of the SFRaves readers - can someone(s) list who >> the promoters of UBIQUITOUS are ? >> >> Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..What???? The promoter of Ubiquitous was Larry ching????? I never would have believed it!!!! It just goes to show you what old age will do to you.....Oh well, live and learn. On the road to wellville........SpinSilver >> > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 11:58:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA11859; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 11:58:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom6.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA11855; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 11:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA12215; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 11:58:22 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199612011958.LAA12215@netcom6.netcom.com> Subject: TR-626 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 11:58:21 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves ] Does anyone here have any experience with the Roland TR-626 drum machine? I was in a music store that had used musical instruments, and they have one for $99 ( no manual or cables, I assume ). I want to know whether the sounds compare to TR-808 / TR-909 persussion sounds. Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 12:00:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA12207; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 12:00:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom6.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA12198; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 12:00:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id MAA20253; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 12:00:53 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199612012000.MAA20253@netcom6.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Who was UBIQUITOUS ? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 12:00:53 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves list ] Jake from Ghostribe gave us an ID - > CR power threw Ubiquitous, they are out of livermore mostly, the > valley. They sure tricked us!! They asked if they could put our logo on > the flyer, we told 'em yes 'cause the party was *FREE* which we happily > support...buutttt, we were decieved. Oh well, life does go on, > Jake from Ghostribe Too bad we don't have the names of the folks in "CR Power" - it's easy to change organizational names and keep the same bunch of scamsters... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 12:33:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA24249; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 12:33:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mom.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA23680; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 12:32:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from stuff (chum-58.ppp.hooked.net [206.80.8.58]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA14563; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 12:32:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612012032.MAA14563@mom.hooked.net> From: "Mr nStuff" To: , "Pablo Beck" Subject: Re: BE HERE NOW! -som... [Out of control] Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 12:34:12 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Your right Pablo. The place was swarming with negativity. After four hours of that ravE. I couldn't even crack a smile no more. To much industrial house. I had a blast though. Things could of been worse, I guess. I mean, I could of actually gave a shit what negative people thought about me, or something. Besides. I rather enjoy the feeling of being back in high school on occasion. Jeff The "Weird" "AssHole" "Loser" "Acid head" =]:.:.. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 14:03:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA12717; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:03:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from PACBELL.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA12677; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:03:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from raverdude (ppp-207-104-158-92.wnck11.pacbell.net [207.104.158.92]) by PACBELL.net (8.7.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA23791 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:03:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612012203.OAA23791@PACBELL.net> From: "Eric Vandenbroek" To: Subject: Be Here Now/Tribal Funk.... Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:04:18 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk it was a good party to go to. I had a lot of fun walking arround smiling all night long, playing with my glowsticks, tripping the clubbies out with the way I dance. :-) I didn't like the negative vibes coming from the enviornment as a whole, you know what I mean? Well anyway, we were the first people in the line, my friends and I until they moved the guys to one side and the girls to another to get searched. Which was funny because I was able to sneak 3 bottles of water into the party. The front room was really cool with all the visuals going on the back wall. I really didn't like the way people would tag the back wall, there is no purpose for doing that, execpt make a space now longer available. I met a lot of new friends last night, but that seems always to be the case at any party I go to. After the whole Ubiquitous event last night was just unbelivable, which is scarry because it was lacking the rave vibe ;-( Anyway, I think I will just stick to the underground parties from now on, you know what I mean? Well I am going to go back to bed now. Rave on brothers and sisters, Eric From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 14:17:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA14187; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA14016; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:16:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA11811 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:14:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:14:58 -0800 (PST) From: David Lowe To: SF-Raver Family Subject: gobble gobble Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello people! Saturn5's thanksgiving party was a success, despite all setbacks and difficulties (our boys in blue again!) I had a wonderful time, myself - and everyone I spoke to had an equally wonderful time. It's safe to say this was my best thanksgiving ever. Working, early on, with Randy, Greg, Steve and company, was a blast. Once again, I got to feel like I was a part of creating the atmosphere of the party - transforming a big square room into a beautiful dance floor. The crew was pretty small, so there was a lot of work to do, but everyone was really together and focused, so by the time I left for the map point the space was already looking great. The only real bummer of the night for me is that because I was at the map point until the bust, I never got to see the party in full swing at 150 folsom. I've been told the visuals were really phenomenal, and I really wish I'd had the chance to see them. By the time I got to the warehouse, most of the equipment had already been torn down. Over in Berkeley, when the party got re-started, it was great. Minimal lighting, Nub Chai, a cozy fire, fantastic music (Mystr-E with a familiarly great set, Anna with her beautiful goa, and Warren Parker, the surprise of the morning, keeping the floor moving until 7:30 with a great set) and great company. It was really cool, really cozy and intimate... my favourite kind of party. Cleanup, pancakes, then sleep. I'm happy to have been a part of a wonderful thanksgiving that brought smiles to so many peoples' faces - especially my own. Thanks Steve! See you all next time... : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : : Every picture tells a LIE! : : - The Schwa Corporation : :: fingerprint: 1F E7 D3 24 04 18 72 67 CC E6 66 1B 79 79 CB 3A :: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMqIDSKD2AoV67volAQG2Ewf7BGzOegFJQbum2Om7jgU7G3IwUhVG30pI OcUCm1fb4CJrgN1fpA3duFUtI1HuwLcooFgVjTjYtlCNiVdkwlVG3Pd139q92V6A p+zvCGCsLydO2JjLhAU9g4VDA8Jjdz/ebl5oCqFCtJVhSvc9/iPy1dVlh7yDPttQ rkN2qsIZiLgQLPmLnYIjXEXWXPMLgPlpwjdwX27eURZi3lzxoW2WniHDJxislwc+ iRMSqO1sAgVAKmbUxOvQ01+34DW0aB+4Gk8E++QQmnwCx5z981n2FHUSI3n4us9z sD14uAb335EcEizGOF12lk3uI3M6mtaTR7A//LKhcZE5W6TtUtWxOQ== =jbSD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 14:19:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA14513; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:19:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA14503; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:19:32 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA25296; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 17:30:55 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from localhost (senc@localhost) by ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (8.7/StupidYak 1.0) with SMTP id RAA00766; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 17:30:49 -0800 Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 17:30:49 -0800 (PST) From: Jack Chang To: Andrew Freudenberg <100711.504@CompuServe.COM> cc: sfraves Subject: Re: mtv ( aagggggggghhhhhh ) In-Reply-To: <961128025452_100711.504_EHU14-3@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On 27 Nov 1996, Andrew Freudenberg wrote: > If this exposure can , ( god forbid ) , get some decent music > into the ears of the MTV crowd , then it could be a good thing. At last, I caught the AMP on MTV last night. Many of the groups deserve commendation for creating the computer graphics on some dazzling videos. Despite what criticism people may say about commercialization of the 'scene', if it inspires more people to create and share beauty with the world, I'm all for it. Saying that MTV kids don't have good taste in music is like comparing beer at frat parties to E at raves. There's always more crap when we get something in plentitude(sp?) for cheap. It would be awesome if MTV played good stuff all the time, but the mainstream will always be a potluck of everything good and bad. Our energies can be better directed at improving the music in our scene. I'd like to see some open evaluations of groups and DJ's mixing styles. So far my vocabulary consists of phat, smooth (transition), dope, and cerebral. Some edumacation would be good. my 2 c Sen From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 14:21:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA14339; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA14219; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:17:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.13]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with ESMTP id PAA19142 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:12:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from 206.86.220.227 (bwret.vip.best.com [206.86.220.227]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA29638 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 13:10:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32A1E696.6A42@best.com> Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 13:12:06 -0700 From: Alex X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Non-electronic music? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I was wondering, if there are any non-techno bands or groups you like which you think share similar qualities to electronic music. I am a big fan of repetitive beats and find myself drawn to 'drone' bands who use repetition as a focal point in their music. Some of my favorites are: Spacemen 3, Spiritualized, Spectrum, Stereolab, The Velevet Underground, My Bloody Valentine and Tortoise. What kinds of music do you think complement your love for electronica?? -alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 14:33:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA16642; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:33:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom4.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA16628; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:33:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom4.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id OAA24382; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:33:11 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:33:11 -0800 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199612012233.OAA24382@netcom4.netcom.com> To: bwret@best.com CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-reply-to: <32A1E696.6A42@best.com> (message from Alex on Sun, 01 Dec 1996 13:12:06 -0700) Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 13:12:06 -0700 > From: Alex > > I was wondering, if there are any non-techno bands or groups you like > which you think share similar qualities to electronic music. I am a big > fan of repetitive beats and find myself drawn to 'drone' bands who use > repetition as a focal point in their music. Some of my favorites are: > Spacemen 3, Spiritualized, Spectrum, Stereolab, The Velevet Underground, > My Bloody Valentine and Tortoise. > > What kinds of music do you think complement your love for electronica?? > -alex > I'd have to say the Swans also fit the bill. Their intense droning textured style often remind me of layered ambient synthesis. Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com saturn5@cyborganic.net | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | "I hope the rest of the country falls off the bay area." - D. Lowe | | operators are standing by : 415-626-5074 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 14:40:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA17415; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:40:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay4.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA17410; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:40:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from heald.edu by relay4.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbsgo04989; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:40:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp103.hayward.heald.edu by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17045; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:47:01 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:47:00 -0800 Message-Id: <9612012247.AA17045@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Aryck Subject: SPECIAL THANKS TO YOU ALL Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Sorry it's taken me a while to thank everyone, but I haven't really had too much time to post lately. I just want to thank everyone for their advice and their help with everything they gave me advice and help for. Thanks: ADAM ANDREW DEEPFOG MARTIN POUNCE AMY ANDY AND ANYONE ELSE I MAY HAVE MISSED (SORRY). . . I just didn't want to seem like a d*** and not say thanks because I was thinking about it, I just never had much of a chance to. SMILE:) Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 14:42:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA17565; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:42:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay4.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA17560; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:42:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from heald.edu by relay4.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbsgo05169; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:42:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp103.hayward.heald.edu by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17054; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:48:47 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:48:46 -0800 Message-Id: <9612012248.AA17054@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Aryck Subject: ONE MORE ADDITION TO THE THANKS Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Sorry it's taken me a while to thank everyone, but I haven't really had too much time to post lately. I just want to thank everyone for their advice and their help with everything they gave me advice and help for. Thanks: ADAM ANDREW DEEPFOG MARTIN POUNCE AMY ANDY SHANNON AND ANYONE ELSE I MAY HAVE MISSED (SORRY). . . I just didn't want to seem like a d*** and not say thanks because I was thinking about it, I just never had much of a chance to. SMILE:) Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 14:45:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA17811; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:45:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay4.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA17806; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:45:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from heald.edu by relay4.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbsgp05428; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:45:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp103.hayward.heald.edu by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17106; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:51:57 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 14:51:56 -0800 Message-Id: <9612012251.AA17106@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Aryck Subject: NRR: WHAT THE???? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ok, now I know I already read through these messages like last week, and now today I'm reading through them again. . . why???? HMMMMM Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 15:11:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA20071; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:11:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA20064; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:11:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:11:07 -0800 (PST) From: Sami Khoury To: Alex cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? In-Reply-To: <32A1E696.6A42@best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Alex wrote: > I was wondering, if there are any non-techno bands or groups you like > which you think share similar qualities to electronic music. > What kinds of music do you think complement your love for electronica?? I'd say Slowdive fall into this category, The Verve had some good ones along this line, as well. And don't forget Stone Roses' "Fool's Gold". Sami From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 15:40:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA22993; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:40:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA22952; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [207.33.94.99] (a99.value.net [207.33.94.99]) by value.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19123 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:40:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:43:07 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: bri@value.net (Brian Denny) Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >I was wondering, if there are any non-techno bands or groups you like >which you think share similar qualities to electronic music. I am a big there's a Herbie Hancock album called "Head Hunters" which was released in the 1970s... it was some of the earliest "fusion" or "acid" jazz... there's a track on there called "vein melter" which i would love to hear in an ambient room... it's one of the best pieces of stoner/trip music i have ever heard. love, brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 15:51:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA23969; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:51:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA23963; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp051-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.51]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id PAA01702 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 15:49:17 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961201155600.00935dfc@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 15:56:03 -0800 To: NRR Central From: Pinko 99 Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >What kinds of music do you think complement your love for electronica?? zen cowboys are one of my picks. and blur. :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 16:13:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA25966; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:13:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA25959; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:13:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (raygun@localhost) by value.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20651; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:13:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:13:39 -0800 (PST) From: Reagan Reid To: Sami Khoury cc: Alex , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Thank you SAmi!! I was trying to think of some groups and I couldn't until now. I haven't listened to Slowdive since high school ('93) but a friend introduced them to me and I really enjoyed their music. Have they come out with any new music lately? hugs- Reagan On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Sami Khoury wrote: > On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Alex wrote: > > > I was wondering, if there are any non-techno bands or groups you like > > which you think share similar qualities to electronic music. > > > What kinds of music do you think complement your love for electronica?? > > I'd say Slowdive fall into this category, The Verve had some good ones > along this line, as well. And don't forget Stone Roses' "Fool's Gold". > > Sami > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 16:25:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA26907; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:25:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA26896; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:25:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA11684; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:25:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (sidewalk@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA19913; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:25:01 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:25:00 -0800 (PST) From: Timothy McIntyre To: Pinko 99 cc: NRR Central Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19961201155600.00935dfc@pop.sirius.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Pinko 99 wrote: > >What kinds of music do you think complement your love for electronica?? > U2, U2, and more U2 ;) One of my secret fantasies is to hijack the turntables at the conclusion of a great rave, and end the party with their song 'Tryin' To Throw Your Arms Around the World' (since it's a song written about coming home after a rave, when you're too blissed out to do anything but smile) Ahhh, how I wish turntable-seizing was socially acceptable! :) best, Timothy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 16:36:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA27668; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from pimaia4w.prodigy.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA27651; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mime3.prodigy.com (mime3.prodigy.com [192.168.253.27]) by pimaia4w.prodigy.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA16764 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 18:42:10 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by mime3.prodigy.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id SAA21578 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 18:34:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199612012334.SAA21578@mime3.prodigy.com> X-Mailer: Prodigy Internet GW(v0.9beta) - ae01dm04sc03 From: JNRF62B@prodigy.com (MR MICHAEL E ROBINSON) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 18:34:40, -0500 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: RE: Non-electronic music? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hmm, I'm a big fan of industrial actually, einsturzende neubauten and the like. very noisy, but they do share the repetition and slow growth of rythmic patterns that I like in techno. - Mike > I was wondering, if there are any non-techno bands or groups you like > which you think share similar qualities to electronic music. I am a big > fan of repetitive beats and find myself drawn to 'drone' bands who use > repetition as a focal point in their music. Some of my favorites are: > Spacemen 3, Spiritualized, Spectrum, Stereolab, The Velevet Underground, > My Bloody Valentine and Tortoise. > > What kinds of music do you think complement your love for electronica?? > -alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 17:02:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA29950; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:02:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA29941; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:02:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id RAA24796; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:01:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:01:21 -0800 (PST) From: Karen Hardie Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? To: Alex cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <32A1E696.6A42@best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk oh i don't know ... since all the other groups i like use electronics to a large extent :) but non-techno-yet-hypnosis-inducing for me includes some Spiritualized, Pink Floyd (of course!), Enya, Alan Parsons Project (yes! and i'm not even blushing!), Cocteau Twins, Vivaldi, Mozart, and lots of early medieval madrigals and chamber music. i'm a HUGE fan of thick, rich, juicy strings :) pounce ---------------------------- As she lay there dozing mext to me, one voice inside my head kept saying, "Relax ... you're not the first doctor who's ever slept with one of his patients," but another kept reminding me, "Howard, you're a veterinarian." - Dick Wilson, Orlando, FL From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 17:13:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA01206; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:13:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA01199; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:13:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id RAA26182; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:13:03 -0800 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id RAA28612; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:13:01 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:13:01 -0800 (PST) From: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Subject: Re: PHISH!!! To: Claudia Moutray cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <32A0725A.45D8@citysearch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Did anyone go to the Phish concert last night? Is this a rave????? ummmmm, not last time I checked, but I could be wrong?! MHg On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Claudia Moutray wrote: > Did anyone go to the Phish concert last night? It was amazing!!! They > have the ability to jam for hours and make out of control rifs connect. > Just felt like sharing my incredible evening. > Dia > -if you don't recognize the name, I'm new to the list, just moved to > town. > > ___________ ___________ | _____ | | _____ | | [_____] | -={ RaVe On }=- | [_____] | | __ | | __ | | (__) | | (__) | ^ | | | | ^ \ | _____ | ^ ^ | _____ |/ <-- | / \ | / \ | / \ |--> <--^-- | | | | ---* 0 *---| | | | --^--> <-- | | (_) | | \ /-\ /| | (_) | |--> / | | | |_______==___==_______| | | |\ * | \_____/ | | \_____/ | * |___________|____|_____|_____|____|___________| \ o / \ / |__ o _ | ___\o | o/ o/__ /\ / \ /) | /o\ / ) | (\ / | o ) O/ < \ /\- -| /\O/ _/\ /\ /|_ \\ / / / / // ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- ) ______ ___ _________ ) ( ___ |/ /______ _______ /______ ________ ___ _____ ( ) __ /|_/ / _ __ `/_ __ / _ __ `/__ __ `__ \_ _ \ ) ( _ / / / / /_/ / / /_/ / / /_/ / _ / / / / // __/ ) ) /_/ /_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___/ ) ( ( ) ______ ___ mhg@cats.ucsc.edu ) ( ___ |/ /_____ ___________________ _______________ __( ) __ /|_/ / _ _ \__ ___/_ ___/_ / / /__ ___/__ / / /) ( _ / / / / __/_ / / /__ / /_/ / _ / _ /_/ / ( ) /_/ /_/ \___/ /_/ \___/ \__,_/ /_/ _\__, / ) ( /____/ ( ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 17:21:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA01704; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:21:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA01692; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:21:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id RAA26801; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:21:13 -0800 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id RAA29035; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:21:12 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:21:12 -0800 (PST) From: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Subject: shitty post --> sober raving & E To: Aryck cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9612010400.AA08262@heald.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This was a pretty shittey post. I'm sorry to see that you think E is the only way to have fun. At least now I know where people like Leeza (and her crew) get the idea that raving is only about DRUGS!!!!!!!!! I went sober with all my friends and we had lots of fun. I'm sorry to see that you feel the need to be so dependent on E to have a good time :( MHg On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Aryck wrote: > My advise is, if you have E, get lots more, eat most of it a half > hour before you get to homebase, and keep it comin as it wears off. To me, > that's the only way you could see the place as cool. If you're sober, you'll > be hatin life. > > Last time I was there, half of the gangsters were walkin around with > 40's, the other half were hitting on my friends. > > Decide for yourself. I live here, and I know the dumbasses who'll go there > and get all drunk. . . (there not my friends though). > > SMILE:) > > Aryck > > ___________ ___________ | _____ | | _____ | | [_____] | -={ RaVe On }=- | [_____] | | __ | | __ | | (__) | | (__) | ^ | | | | ^ \ | _____ | ^ ^ | _____ |/ <-- | / \ | / \ | / \ |--> <--^-- | | | | ---* 0 *---| | | | --^--> <-- | | (_) | | \ /-\ /| | (_) | |--> / | | | |_______==___==_______| | | |\ * | \_____/ | | \_____/ | * |___________|____|_____|_____|____|___________| \ o / \ / |__ o _ | ___\o | o/ o/__ /\ / \ /) | /o\ / ) | (\ / | o ) O/ < \ /\- -| /\O/ _/\ /\ /|_ \\ / / / / // ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- ) ______ ___ _________ ) ( ___ |/ /______ _______ /______ ________ ___ _____ ( ) __ /|_/ / _ __ `/_ __ / _ __ `/__ __ `__ \_ _ \ ) ( _ / / / / /_/ / / /_/ / / /_/ / _ / / / / // __/ ) ) /_/ /_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___/ ) ( ( ) ______ ___ mhg@cats.ucsc.edu ) ( ___ |/ /_____ ___________________ _______________ __( ) __ /|_/ / _ _ \__ ___/_ ___/_ / / /__ ___/__ / / /) ( _ / / / / __/_ / / /__ / /_/ / _ / _ /_/ / ( ) /_/ /_/ \___/ /_/ \___/ \__,_/ /_/ _\__, / ) ( /____/ ( ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 17:36:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA02848; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:36:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA02839; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:36:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id RAA27985; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:36:40 -0800 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id RAA29659; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:36:39 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:36:39 -0800 (PST) From: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Subject: <<>> To: Pablo Beck cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961201162335.006b9d78@pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I went with my friends and we had lots of fun. Yes it was hot and there were lots of people, but that's part of raving. Did anyone else hear the phat mix of Basco into that hard Skint beat. It kicked ass!!!!! I'm sorry to say though, DJ DAN's set was sorta disapointing. It was kinda hard and angry....theories why: 1) his boyfriend broke with him 2) his boyfriend cheated on him 3) he had a bad day 4) he thought it was too hot and stuffy in that tiny room 5) he's been out of the US too long 6) he's practicing for Germany Dec. 14th At least there was that phat set in the room next door right before Dan went on. Anyone know who that was? MHg On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Pablo Beck wrote: > Hi everyone! :) I just thought I should share my experience with you guys.. > > The place had a lot of people and a lot of NEGATIVE attitudes. It was scary... > yet...I was on two hits of E and some shrooms so I was having a blast! ;) which > reminds me... People, NEVER smoke cigarretes when you are shrooming as hard > I was.. > I had a bad trip :( and I guess I couldn't get out of it cause the energy was > not Positive at all... :( > > I did have fun and I did not think I wasted $25 :) in fact, I take pride of > everysingle > penny I spent! :P > > Anyhow... who else was there anyway? > luv to allz > Pab > > PS: G'nite ;) just got home, I'm not waking up 'till monday morning ;) > > > ___________ ___________ | _____ | | _____ | | [_____] | -={ RaVe On }=- | [_____] | | __ | | __ | | (__) | | (__) | ^ | | | | ^ \ | _____ | ^ ^ | _____ |/ <-- | / \ | / \ | / \ |--> <--^-- | | | | ---* 0 *---| | | | --^--> <-- | | (_) | | \ /-\ /| | (_) | |--> / | | | |_______==___==_______| | | |\ * | \_____/ | | \_____/ | * |___________|____|_____|_____|____|___________| \ o / \ / |__ o _ | ___\o | o/ o/__ /\ / \ /) | /o\ / ) | (\ / | o ) O/ < \ /\- -| /\O/ _/\ /\ /|_ \\ / / / / // ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- ) ______ ___ _________ ) ( ___ |/ /______ _______ /______ ________ ___ _____ ( ) __ /|_/ / _ __ `/_ __ / _ __ `/__ __ `__ \_ _ \ ) ( _ / / / / /_/ / / /_/ / / /_/ / _ / / / / // __/ ) ) /_/ /_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___/ ) ( ( ) ______ ___ mhg@cats.ucsc.edu ) ( ___ |/ /_____ ___________________ _______________ __( ) __ /|_/ / _ _ \__ ___/_ ___/_ / / /__ ___/__ / / /) ( _ / / / / __/_ / / /__ / /_/ / _ / _ /_/ / ( ) /_/ /_/ \___/ /_/ \___/ \__,_/ /_/ _\__, / ) ( /____/ ( ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 17:40:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA03233; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:40:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA03224; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:40:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from natasha.coolware.com (mg131-183.ricochet.net [204.179.131.183]) by proxy1.ba.best.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA23799 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:39:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961202013842.006c8920@best.com> X-Sender: mdpkl@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 17:38:42 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" Subject: nrr, non-sensical love! Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hello all- [disclaimer: if you don't like lovey-dovey posts, go away now! otherwise, you have no right to bitch at me for my nrr posts! just wanted to say hello from wherever i happen to be right now (it changes far too quick for even me to keep track of!) i had a wonderful thanksgiving break (though i did miss my girl while she traveled) and i wanted to spread some of that wonderful feeling i have to you!!!!!!!! so here goes! LOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVELOVE!!! ok, now that i've got that out of my system, i can return to my normal quantum flux! i love you all- matt p.s. - kudos to steve s for putting together a killer party: here's my description of the inagural saturn5: "if you took the essense of raving (the people, the music, the dancing) stuffed it, yourself, and 50 of your closest friends, into a little box, while some giant outside picked up the box and shook it wildly above his head for a few hours, you'd have saturn5!" good job steve! love, once again- matt matthew d. p. k. lanier professional hugger and empath 415-752-3218 E-mail mailto:mdpkl@best.com pager mailto:lanima00@usfca.edu (up to 240 characters) _______ / \ / o o \ | ^ | | | ___ \ \_/ / ___ __(___\ \__ __/ /___)__ (______ \________\ /_________/ ______) (_______ ____________________ _______) (______ / \ ______) (_____/ \_____) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 17:51:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA04471; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:51:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA04404; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:50:52 -0800 (PST) From: DorenaB@aol.com Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA14919 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:50:16 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:50:16 -0500 Message-ID: <961201205016_1085032641@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Fwd: HOW TO SPOT A RAVER............ Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hey everyone, i picked this up off of SERAVES. i hope you enjoy it. PLUR, dorena --------------------- Forwarded message: From: GlowLites@AOL.COM Sender: SERAVES@AMERICAN.EDU (South East Rave List) Reply-to: SERAVES@AMERICAN.EDU (South East Rave List) To: SERAVES@AMERICAN.EDU (Multiple recipients of list SERAVES) Date: 96-12-01 19:16:57 EST HOW TO SPOT A RAVER...................... Ravers can perfectly understand and have amazing conversations with anyone under the age of ten. Ravers know where all the best toy stores are. Ravers get the most mileage out of their shoes. The toes and heels always curl up because they're so worn down. Ravers always wish the dj would spin that OC Transpo track that they keep hearing on the bus ride home. Ravers are the only people who don't have their age calculated in months, yet still wear and use pacifiers. Ravers always consider every new place they go to as a possible location for a party. Ravers hug EVERYONE. Ravers can DANCE. Ravers can be found dancing everywhere EXCEPT the main dance floor. Ravers understand the art of the bathroom conversation. Ravers choose their clothes by texture, colour, and size. Ravers love homemade clothes because they've seen the price tag on a pair of Lithiums. Ravers get the most enjoyment out of gino/guit stories. Ravers always order water when they go out to clubs. Ravers realize that "Evian" spells "naivE" backwards. Ravers notice that the doors near the Mackenzie King Bridge have an "e" on the handle. Ravers always know the most likely spot to find other ravers within a one-hundred foot radius. Ravers don't bother planning to meet their friends ahead of time, their friends are always already there. Ravers don't say "Nice shoes, wanna fu@k?" Ravers give the best hugs and massages. Ravers have a one track mind. It goes "thump thump tweet thump tweet thump". Ravers constantly point out the trippy visuals in everyday life. Ravers helped Adidas through the "lean" years. Ravers never know the name of their favorite tracks. Ravers know how to SMILE. Ravers always choose "e" on multiple choice questions. Ravers are good at playing "guess what he's on". Ravers will say "hi" to those people they don't know, yet always see on the bus. Ravers can't watch Electric Circus without it being muted. Ravers define the style of music they listen to as "good". Ravers know what to do with a dead glowstick ! _________________________________________________ >From The Crew Of GLOW PRODUCTS / RAVE ON PROMOS Home of the " 6 INCH GLOWSTICK " and the "RAVE ON" BUMPERSTICKER !!!!! EMAIL : GLOWLITES@AOL.COM INFOR. LINE : 703-758-5555 " HAVE A GLOWING NIGHT AND RAVE ON ........ " From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 19:47:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA21892; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 19:47:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA21885; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 19:47:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 19:47:20 -0800 (PST) From: Sami Khoury To: Reagan Reid cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Thank you SAmi!! I was trying to think of some groups and I couldn't > until now. I haven't listened to Slowdive since high school ('93) but a > friend introduced them to me and I really enjoyed their music. Have they > come out with any new music lately? I saw a Slowdive 12" in Mod Lang, Berkeley today, as a matter of fact. I can't remember the name nor how old it was, but there are still releases floating around at least. Sami From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 20:25:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA24958; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:25:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA24953; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA27348; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:25:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:25:23 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: SFRavefriends cc: Ivan Vasquez Subject: Info on Ubiquitous Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear SFRavefriends, I happened to still have this message that was sent out before the event (I saved it because I thought I'd go -- glad I didn't.) It lists several promoter groups as being involved (with a nod to Jake's claim that Ghostribe actually was not), and the sender is Ivan Vasquez, with copies going to the other . Can you shed some light for us Ivan? Much love, <<< Starchild >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 20 Nov 1996 15:49:56 -0800 From: David Benton To: Ivan Vasquez , sfraves@hyperreal.com Cc: bobbie@mayfield.hp.com, n8dog@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: UBIQUITOUS Reply to: RE>UBIQUITOUS i'll definately go!! i'll probably need a ride but i'll worry about that later! can't imagine too many people passing up a free party! david -------------------------------------- Date: 11/20/96 1:39 PM To: David Benton From: Ivan Vasquez Who's going to this party? Ivan UBIQUITOUS Date: 96/11/29 Time: 10:00 Price: FREE!!!FREE!!!150,000sq/ft INDOORS!!! DJ Lineup: Pete Avila Simon Carlos Dutch Spun Rick Preston Ghost Frank Nitty R.K.Tech Jaz Larry Live Pat Allen Henrik Shiloh David Michael Liquid Alonso DRC More to be announced. Location: SACRAMENTO, CA FREE!!! Phone #s: (916)491-1944 (415)263-0695 (510)806-8588 (408)881-0615 Other Info: 150,000 sq/ft FREE INDOOR PARTY. Introducing their most extravegant visual exhibition- Lumatech Lighting Inc. An enormous NEW! location in Sacramento to expand the scene beyond existing boundaries. Together we are UBIQUITOUS: existing everywhere at the same time . . . . Introducing an eye piercing 11 Watt Laser!Tribal Percussions. ALL AGES WELCOME. Additional 15,000sq/ft of Private Club for the 21 & Up. 3 ROOMS/2 FLOORS. @ 7:00am be submerged in our aquatic lounge(olympic size indoor heated pool!). Enjoy morning pancakes and frsh fruit! Acknowledging all those who have contributed so much to the people: Funky Tekno Tribe, The Gathering, Spundae, Ghostribe, E-Ticket, The Buzz Line, Feel Good Entertainment. Much love and respect to ALL promotional families. 42042042042042042042042042042042042 2 Ivan Vasquez 0 0 Qhelp and K.info Hardware Assistance 4 4 qhelp@newton.apple.com 2 2 k.info@newton.apple.com 0 0 I'm located in R&D5 4 4 3rd Floor cube B357 2 20420420420420420420420420420420420 ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by sf.jwtworld.com with ADMIN;20 Nov 1996 13:38:37 -0800 Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA06898; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:25:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:25:33 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA06888; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:25:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA06869; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:25:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv3.apple.com (A17-128-100-121.apple.com [17.128.100.121]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA30044; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:24:37 -0800 Received: from newton.apple.com (newton.apple.com [17.205.32.200]) by scv3.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA64560; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:26:18 -0800 Received: from [17.205.32.116] by newton.apple.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03959; Wed, 20 Nov 96 13:25:46 PST Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 13:25:46 PST Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: qhelp@newton.apple.com (Ivan Vasquez) Subject: UBIQUITOUS Cc: n8dog@ix.netcom.com, bobbie@mayfield.hp.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 20:38:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA25810; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:38:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sammy.on.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA25806; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:38:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from p75tcp (pppS19.mco.net [207.81.18.123]) by sammy.on.ca (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA28746 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:30:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <32A25C91.5B0D@internity.on.ca> Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 23:35:29 -0500 From: dave Reply-To: alchemist@internity.on.ca Organization: b.o.o.b. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: non-electronic mu-sick Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk has anyone heard the aphex remix of curve? how about the oval remixes of Tortoise? if you're into music of this vein check out the latest release from Nonplace Urban Field ("Goldenstar" on Incoming!) which has the highest production quality i've heard in months... squarepusher meets hawtin meets pork recordings... it's fucking mad! i tell you... dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 20:55:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA26898; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:55:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from bronson.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA26893; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:55:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from blunt (bronson132.bronson.com [204.31.2.132]) by bronson.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA05555; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 20:51:36 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961201205517.00697b60@gate.bronson.com> X-Sender: swade@gate.bronson.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 20:55:19 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Scott Wade Subject: BE HERE NOW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >From: Pablo Beck >The place had a lot of people and a lot of NEGATIVE attitudes. It was scary... Way too many people mostly standing around...I fault part of that to the sets being played...nothing uplifting, straight "trancy" material but flavored for the most part near the industrial realms of oppresive vibes...but mostly to the environment and people there....not to mention that damn yellow light on the Butterfly murial that was blasting into everyone's eyes and generally preventing that cozy feeling from forming. >From: "Eric Vandenbroek" >I didn't like the negative vibes coming from the >enviornment as a whole A lot of non-friendly vibes and gangsta' types seem drawn to the various massive parties I've been to at the HomeBase site... >From: "Mr nStuff" >The place was swarming with negativity. >After four hours of that ravE. I couldn't even crack a smile no more. >To much industrial house. >I had a blast though. Things could of been worse, I guess. I mean, I could >of actually gave a shit what negative people thought about me, or >something. Besides. I rather enjoy the feeling of being back in high school >on occasion. Sorry to come across so negative, but after the fiasco with UBIQUITOUS the night before, I was really in the mood for an uplifting party. A friend went with us last night...anxious to participate in the event (his first)...and after his experience at BE HERE NOW, I'm sad to say he'll probably never join again. As I pull on my flame-retardent rave-wear, I'd also like to say that way too many "kids" have been entering the scene...I'm not saying that I don't appreciate the things that the majority of this part of the crowd can bring to a good party, but when I start routinely running into a bunch of 12 year olds with their parents and the topic of conversation when meeting new people is the arithmetic assignment due the next day in Junior High School, I question If I've made it to the right party. How about advertising events with a general idea of the age of the attendants. Like: All ages, 18 and older, or 21+....seems most of the parties I've been to lately indicate nothing and end up "glorified" after-school dance parties. And maybe allow those of us that are of legal age to enjoy an alcholic drink from time-to-time the opportunity to do so, and ban the practice of no re-entry. Just my thoughts.... ------------------------------------- SWade@broson.com ------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 21:10:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id VAA28134; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:10:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA28130; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:10:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.131.29] (mg131-029.ricochet.net [204.179.131.29]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA07897; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:09:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612020509.VAA07897@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? Date: Sun, 1 Dec 96 21:15:35 -0800 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: "Timothy McIntyre" , "Pinko 99" cc: "NRR Central" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > U2, U2, and more U2 ;) One of my secret fantasies is to hijack the >turntables at the conclusion of a great rave, and end the party with their >song 'Tryin' To Throw Your Arms Around the World' (since it's a song >written about coming home after a rave, when you're too blissed out to do >anything but smile) > Ahhh, how I wish turntable-seizing was socially acceptable! :) > >best, >Timothy > > > And then a spin of the Passengers vol 1 album! A truely incredible group of musical artists! deeje -------------------------------------------------------------------------- deeje cooley Journeyman Software -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 21:29:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id VAA29611; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from boris.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA29604; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:29:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by boris.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.7.3) id VAA08040; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:29:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:28:59 -0800 (PST) From: Uncle Noah X-Sender: ez031733@boris.ucdavis.edu To: SFRAVES@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? In-Reply-To: <199612020509.VAA07897@rgate.metricom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Before I got into techno I was listening to a lot of old groove tunes by artists like Booker T. and the MGs and the Bar-Kays... those old grooves have teh same kind of steady rhythm, but have the funked out organ leads and stuff... I would highly reccommend checking this stuff out if you haven't before :) dBP dBP dBBBBb dBBBP dBP dBBBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBP dBP_dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBBBBP dBP dBP dBBBBP dBBBBP dBBBBP dBBBBb dBBBBP dBBBBBb dBP dBP dBP dBP.BP BB dBP dBP dBP.BP dBP BB dBBBBBP dBP dBP dBP.BP dBP BB dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBBBP dBBBBBBB dBP dBP ********napodaca@ucdavis.edu************************************************** "Uncle" Noah Apodaca - UCDavis Graduate, DJ, Electronic Musician From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 21:35:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id VAA00169; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:35:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from boris.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA00162; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:35:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by boris.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.7.3) id VAA09987; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:35:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 21:35:06 -0800 (PST) From: Uncle Noah X-Sender: ez031733@boris.ucdavis.edu To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: The role of a DJ (NRR) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk You know, I have been thinking about the roll of the DJ a lot lately. As I watch a lot of people jumping into the world of DJing, i see a lot of people with different views of what the DJ is. Now, the way I see it, the sj is really there to help the vibe along. The vibe is not created by the DJ, or by the DJs music. It is created by the people grooving. The DJ has to help it keep going. The DJ is _not_ just a beatmatching tool. Shit, we have machines that do that. The DJ is not even required by definition to spin 'techno' or whatnot. The discussion of non-electronic music made me think of that even more. I remember on one mixtape that I did, I put a non-beatmatched song called "Do You Know What I Mean" by one of the greatest keyboardists ever, Lee Michaels. My friends called up and said, What's with that rock song at the end? But soon, folks were saying that they had really started digging that tune. It worked with the vibe. Just random thoughts... dBP dBP dBBBBb dBBBP dBP dBBBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBP dBP_dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBBBBP dBP dBP dBBBBP dBBBBP dBBBBP dBBBBb dBBBBP dBBBBBb dBP dBP dBP dBP.BP BB dBP dBP dBP.BP dBP BB dBBBBBP dBP dBP dBP.BP dBP BB dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBBBP dBBBBBBB dBP dBP ********napodaca@ucdavis.edu************************************************** "Uncle" Noah Apodaca - UCDavis Graduate, DJ, Electronic Musician From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 22:29:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id WAA03526; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 22:29:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from chip.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA03521; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 22:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from reqb-085.ucdavis.edu by chip.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.7.3) id WAA24675; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 22:28:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32A2763B.317D@ucdavis.edu> Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 22:24:59 -0800 From: Matthew Wietzke X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bpm@dhp.com CC: xpress@bigfoot.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Online record ordering (NRR) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I was wondering if anybody knows any online house music record ordering services where you can actually hear the music online. I like DJTRAXX except I don't want to pay $12 for a $5 record. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 22:49:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id WAA05057; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 22:49:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from m9.sprynet.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id WAA05046; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 22:49:28 -0800 (PST) From: czefir@sprynet.com Received: from [199.174.135.157] (ad32-157.compuserve.com [199.174.135.157]) by m9.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA18020 for ; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 22:49:23 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 22:49:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199612020649.WAA18020@m9.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: sober raving & E To: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.21 Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hello all, not being a participater in the E taking I was wondering how other non-drug people manage to stay up so long. I usually find myself winding down around 4:00 and after that cannot usually be revived unless there is some really kick-ass music going. Being tired beyond the point of exhaustion usually ruins my night so I leave when I start to feel it set in. I would like to be able to stay up longer but the after effects (and during effects) of stuff to keep you up longer does not interest me at all. So...how do you do it? wish me luck for my admissions interview at FIDM tommorow, please, later everyone, Megan Czefir From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 23:06:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA05952; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:06:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from cardinal1.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA05947; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:06:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sana@localhost) by cardinal1.Stanford.EDU (8.8.3/8.8.3) id XAA08721; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:05:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:05:52 -0800 (PST) From: Sana Adero Hanible To: czefir@sprynet.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: sober raving & E In-Reply-To: <199612020649.WAA18020@m9.sprynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Regarding how to keep going sober... When I go sober I drink lots of water and juice. I also never sit down for too long, that way I can get up again. Also, we all know that E dialates the pupils. Does anyone know why, or what this may be doing to one's eyesight when the eye is so over exposed to light. What about other ramifications of E besides just a hangover. Anyone? -S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 23:24:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA07051; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:24:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA07040; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:24:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from slip.net.slip.net [204.162.172.246] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUSk2-0002Cd-00; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:24:38 -0800 Message-ID: <32A284B6.FC5@slip.net> Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 23:26:46 -0800 From: Adam Mednick/philip diaz Reply-To: trance@slip.net Organization: Euphonic Genesis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: sober raving & E References: <199612020649.WAA18020@m9.sprynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk czefir@sprynet.com wrote: > > hello all, > > not being a participater in the E taking I was wondering how other non-drug > people manage to stay up so long. > So...how do you do it? my friends joke that i'm always eating at raves...which is pretty much true. i constantly snack on dried fruit/cereal/granola/whatever to keep my energy up (and quiet my growing stomach). bananas have lotsa potassium...good for lots of dancing. another (pretty obvious) solution is to take a "disco nap" just before you go out. you know, get out of work/school in the early afternoon, crash for a few hours (a little goes a long way), then get up and party your brains out. problem is, just before a party that you know is gonna be great, that pre-party anticipation usually keeps you from sleeping. saturday parties are usually easier to plan for...just stay up REALLY late friday night (i don't work weekends, so this isn't a prob for me), then sleep in saturday. be sure to rest enough on sunday night! oh, and drink lots of water, even if you don't drop E. helps keep the colds away. crazee mad flava props to ya for raving sober! (no, i don't REALLY talk like that!) xoxox philip -one-of-these-days-i'm-gonna-finish-my-how-to-rave-and-take-care-of-yourself-book diaz. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 23:37:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA07802; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:37:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from email.sjsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA07793; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:36:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from crc3.concentric.net (isc-ts2-107.sjsu.edu [130.65.25.107]) by email.sjsu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA04997; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:36:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961201234608.006899f8@email.sjsu.edu> X-Sender: ubs00747@email.sjsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 23:46:13 -0800 To: Scott Wade , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Ez E Subject: Re: BE HERE NOW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk About Scott's idea to maybe have an age limit: I personally hate discriminating altogether, but it might be an ok idea, within certain parameters. Like Scott suggested, parties could be advertized as 18+. I don't think we'd have to check IDs at the door or anything, but that in itself may weed out some of the pre-pubescents some of us are more concerned about by virtue of the fact that they wouldn't even try to go since they wouldn't think they'd "be able to get in". The seventeen year-olds and such might be more confident, but they're closer to the more comfortable age spectrum anyway. I mean, I hate to babysit, but at the same time, I think we need to remember that there are certain liabilities in everything we do. So in at least one sense, it's not that the young'uns are being attacked by the "older elite", but that we are just trying to protect ourselves from our "older elite". Dunno, don't care. Haven't been to a party in over two months. Things just get kinda hazy when I don't dance. Just thought I'd throw that out at Scott on the off-chance it help a bit. TTFN. PLUR! : ) +E P.S. I'll hopefully be hitting Karma this saturday. Gonna Dance... gotta dance! Hope to see a lot of smiles there! :D _ mmmmmmmmm, ,,mmmmmmmm, / "..((((((..""m =20 m" >------,* .',(4) ',. . ", '))))))' / ''''''''' ' ., ) =20 / ' o) ' / , / / / .' . ( ) .' |\.,/ | + + ' |( ) | ,mmmmmmmm, . | O \ m",^^..^^,"m =20 ' m>' <<<<()>> '<; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:50:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:50:40 -0800 (PST) From: Dan To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: National Hippy Day Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Don't forget, Jan 18th is National Hippy Day :) Love and goodness to everyone :) -me From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Dec 1 23:59:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA09111; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:59:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA09101; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 23:59:22 -0800 (PST) From: ERMODA@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA01722 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 02:58:49 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 02:58:49 -0500 Message-ID: <961202025847_1520457796@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: tape offer Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Anyone interested in a free copy of my new tape? The format is progressive trance. Email me privately. :) MODA From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 00:47:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id AAA11954; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 00:47:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.imagina.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA11947; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 00:46:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-024.imagina.com (204.130.255.74) by mail.imagina.com with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Mon, 2 Dec 1996 00:46:47 -0800 X-Sender: moses@mail.imagina.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Dr. Giggles" Subject: be here now Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 00:46:47 -0800 Message-ID: <1362634889-80478246@mail.imagina.com> Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk So who saw J Saul Kane at Be Here Now? What did he play? How were the other UK dj's? thanks d. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 02:12:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id CAA18036; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 02:12:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id CAA18028; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 02:12:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.131.29] (mg131-029.ricochet.net [204.179.131.29]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA24585 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 02:11:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612021011.CAA24585@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: SRR: soapbox november 1996 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 96 02:17:10 -0800 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: "SFRaves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all. Just wanted to announce that the november issue of soapbox is now complete. Point your browsers to for this latest issue, featuring my brother's funky at-work artwork. Major props to everyone's input and support. "You care! You really care!" :-) deeje -------------------------------------------------------------------------- deeje cooley Journeyman Software -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 09:08:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA24732; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from andorra.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA24724; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-26-26.sntc01.pacbell.net [206.170.26.26]) by andorra.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA26991; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:07:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32A30DC3.41DA@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 09:11:31 -0800 From: Courtney Nielsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PBXE (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alex CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? References: <32A1E696.6A42@best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Alex wrote: > > I was wondering, if there are any non-techno bands or groups you like > which you think share similar qualities to electronic music. I am a big > fan of repetitive beats and find myself drawn to 'drone' bands who use > repetition as a focal point in their music. Some of my favorites are: > Spacemen 3, Spiritualized, Spectrum, Stereolab, The Velevet Underground, > My Bloody Valentine and Tortoise. > > What kinds of music do you think complement your love for electronica?? > -alex TranceMission and The Rocking Horse People (Both bands share the same players + or - 1 or 2) are a local band with some albums out on City of Tribes Records, very ethnic with a modern twist. Very hypnotic. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 09:27:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA26493; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:27:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA26483; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:27:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id JAA10522; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:27:13 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id JAA11754; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:27:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:27:12 -0800 (PST) From: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Subject: Re: PHISH!!! To: presumed , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199612020644.WAA11195@uclink4.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I think you're quite confused....your giving raves/raving a bad name comparing it to a PHISH concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What does PHISH have to do with raving anyway???? NOTHING!!!!!!! So don't post it here w/out NRR! MHg On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, presumed wrote: > >On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Claudia Moutray wrote: > >>Did anyone go to the Phish concert last night? > > -=]madame mercury[=-, mhg@cats.ucsc.edu > > Is this a rave????? ummmmm, not last time I checked, > > but I could be wrong?! > > Depends on your definition of a rave I suppose. > People grooving to amazing music. > People taking drugs. > People talking to one another, making friends. > People dancing. > It seemed pretty close to a rave... Of course the music wasn't techno, > but we can forgive them. > ___________ ___________ | _____ | | _____ | | [_____] | -={ RaVe On }=- | [_____] | | __ | | __ | | (__) | | (__) | ^ | | | | ^ \ | _____ | ^ ^ | _____ |/ <-- | / \ | / \ | / \ |--> <--^-- | | | | ---* 0 *---| | | | --^--> <-- | | (_) | | \ /-\ /| | (_) | |--> / | | | |_______==___==_______| | | |\ * | \_____/ | | \_____/ | * |___________|____|_____|_____|____|___________| \ o / \ / |__ o _ | ___\o | o/ o/__ /\ / \ /) | /o\ / ) | (\ / | o ) O/ < \ /\- -| /\O/ _/\ /\ /|_ \\ / / / / // ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- ) ______ ___ _________ ) ( ___ |/ /______ _______ /______ ________ ___ _____ ( ) __ /|_/ / _ __ `/_ __ / _ __ `/__ __ `__ \_ _ \ ) ( _ / / / / /_/ / / /_/ / / /_/ / _ / / / / // __/ ) ) /_/ /_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___/ ) ( ( ) ______ ___ mhg@cats.ucsc.edu ) ( ___ |/ /_____ ___________________ _______________ __( ) __ /|_/ / _ _ \__ ___/_ ___/_ / / /__ ___/__ / / /) ( _ / / / / __/_ / / /__ / /_/ / _ / _ /_/ / ( ) /_/ /_/ \___/ /_/ \___/ \__,_/ /_/ _\__, / ) ( /____/ ( ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 09:36:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA27268; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:36:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA27260; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id JAA13074; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:36:29 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id JAA12538; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:36:29 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:36:29 -0800 (PST) From: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E To: presumed , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199612020645.WAA07165@uclink4.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > -=]madame mercury[=-, mhg@cats.ucsc.edu wrote... > > This was a pretty shittey post. I'm sorry to see that you think > > E is the only way to have fun. At least now I know where people > > like Leeza (and her crew) get the idea that raving is only about > > DRUGS!!!!!!!!! > > > > I went sober with all my friends and we had lots of fun. I'm > > sorry to see that you feel the need to be so dependent on E > > to have a good time :( > > I think you're misinterpreting the post. > Drugs are not the only way to have fun. Drugs are the only way to have > fun at a party in a shitty space filled with a bunch of A***** wearing > gangstas :) > For your information, in that post it was stated that the only way anyone was going to have phun was if they took some drugs. I'm sorry to see your so dependent on drugs to depict your feelings for a certain space in the time of your now getting shorter (compliments of these wonderful drugs) life. And about the "Adidas wearing ganstas" GET OFF IT I wore all Adidas down to my sports bra and socks and am I a gangsta? 1) I didn't harrass anyone 2) sold no drugs 3) didn't steal anything from anyone 4) had lots of phun dancing with my SOBER friends 5) gave lots of hugs 6) and SM:)ED a lot ...no I am NOT!!!!! ___________ ___________ | _____ | | _____ | | [_____] | -={ RaVe On }=- | [_____] | | __ | | __ | | (__) | | (__) | ^ | | | | ^ \ | _____ | ^ ^ | _____ |/ <-- | / \ | / \ | / \ |--> <--^-- | | | | ---* 0 *---| | | | --^--> <-- | | (_) | | \ /-\ /| | (_) | |--> / | | | |_______==___==_______| | | |\ * | \_____/ | | \_____/ | * |___________|____|_____|_____|____|___________| \ o / \ / |__ o _ | ___\o | o/ o/__ /\ / \ /) | /o\ / ) | (\ / | o ) O/ < \ /\- -| /\O/ _/\ /\ /|_ \\ / / / / // ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- ) ______ ___ _________ ) ( ___ |/ /______ _______ /______ ________ ___ _____ ( ) __ /|_/ / _ __ `/_ __ / _ __ `/__ __ `__ \_ _ \ ) ( _ / / / / /_/ / / /_/ / / /_/ / _ / / / / // __/ ) ) /_/ /_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___/ ) ( ( ) ______ ___ mhg@cats.ucsc.edu ) ( ___ |/ /_____ ___________________ _______________ __( ) __ /|_/ / _ _ \__ ___/_ ___/_ / / /__ ___/__ / / /) ( _ / / / / __/_ / / /__ / /_/ / _ / _ /_/ / ( ) /_/ /_/ \___/ /_/ \___/ \__,_/ /_/ _\__, / ) ( /____/ ( ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 09:45:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA28193; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:45:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA28182; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id JAA15648; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:45:44 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id JAA13107; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:45:43 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:45:43 -0800 (PST) From: _LiQuiD_ Subject: ---SOBER RAVING, YOU CAN DO IT----- To: czefir@sprynet.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199612020649.WAA18020@m9.sprynet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well obviously there is an art to sober raving, and to keep up with all those who are 'not' sober can sometimes be a challenge ;) But there are tons of ways to stay alive throughout the night. * Firstly and most importantly is **BAD-ASS** music (without i almost always die) * Then Id say people and their vibes are number two... ---> but from here the rest is up to yooooou! & theres lots of options * ok, theres 'Vivarin' & NoDoze, they're great for some mild tweaking, haha, just kidding, but they DO keep you 'UP'. Then again they are very hard on your stomache, so never take too much. It isnt something you should take for a long time... theres other the ways! * now theres 'herbal power' stuff. i have recently begun experiment ing with this and it's great! a medium sized bottle of red ginseng right before a party TOTALLY energized me! im looking further into other herbal 'upers'. SOMETHING NOT TO TRY: MaHuang Its as addictive as speed, and quite harmful. DONT GO THERE :! * and then there are many *smart* things to do. - resting before partying - eating high protein food, some good carbos too! - like someone said before, lots of water & juice (ESSENTIAL) - take something to munch on. i remember once when i took a couple of pb&j sandwiches, and i ate them when i tought i was pooped. those little badboys perked me up like mad! Try it! * and finally there are "energy boosters" that are available. i dont know much about the products that are out there, like at GNC, but i sell nutritional products that are sponsored by the US Olympic Licensee comitee, and about 20 olympic atheletes, not to mention ive tried their energy booster, its great! cheaper than a hit of E, better for you than "psuedo-amphedamines", and works well. e-mail me if you want more info on this, they have many other awsome supplements as well. (its worth looking into if youre ---sick'n'tired of being SICK & TIRED---- haha RAVE ON !!!!! Peace, LiQuiD ___ . . _.--"~~ __"-. ,-" .-~ ~"-\ . . .^ / ( ) . + {_.---._ / ~ / . Y . / \_j + . Y ( --l__ | "-. . | (___ \ . | .)~-.__/ . . l _) . \ "l + \ \ \ ^. . ^. "-. . "-._ ~-.___, . "--.._____.^ ,-. ,-. ,-. .-. _ _ .-. .-. .-. .-. .' ,'.' ,'.' ,' : : :_; :_; : : `. `.`. `.`. `. : : : : : : : : .-. .---..-..-..-. .-' : : : : : : : ` `. ` `. ` `. : :_ : :' .; :: :; :: :' .; : ,' ' ,' ' ,' ' `._; `._; `._; `.__;:_;`._. ;`.__.':_;`.__.' :_,' :_,' :_,' : : :_: .----. `-- ; _____ ,----- ,',' ,-----. _____ :_____::-----: : : :-----::_____: `-----' :_: `-----' @cats.ucsc.edu From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 09:49:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA28555; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:49:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from dnai.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA28547; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:49:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [140.174.162.60] (kenf.dnai.com [140.174.162.60]) by dnai.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA14614 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:48:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:48:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: vontews@dnai.com (Peter Von Tews) Subject: UBIQUITOUS too good to be true? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I've been reading all the postings on UBIQUITOUS and you know the good old saying "if it's too good to be true, than it probably is" here is one example where those one of those unwritten laws of life apply. If you were a promoter, would you dish out $15,000 to throw a party for the people? or would it be a scam to: 1/GET $$$ NOW or 2/GET $$$ LATER , I think it was both. You have to remember that money runs this world, and even if you want to keep the "vibe" alive you will not give a crap about it if you saw 2000 people in line with $20 bills in their hands. True there are a lot of people in the scene who WILL keep the "vibe" going ,but they're going to have to try very hard not to sell out, especially in the next couple of years when MTV will be doing a live video shoot at Funky Techno Tribe featuring DJ Dan/Bassbin twins. It will happen eventually, If something is appealing to the young generation,big companies will market,advertise,shrink-wrap and offer mail-in rebates on it. If you have been going to raves for a while, treasure the moments and the people you've met because you will be telling your kids about it, just like our parents can tell us about the 60's. Any way or other, I think raves have made our future generation better, more open-minded, understanding and positive. tell me what you think...I though about this Pete http://www.sharperview.com smoke me@420 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 10:00:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA29793; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:00:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA29778; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:00:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp083-sf1.sirius.com [205.134.227.83]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id JAA26047 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:58:04 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:58:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199612021758.JAA26047@mail1.sirius.com> X-Sender: kerryl@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Kerry Levenberg Subject: Food Not Bombs benifit status Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all, I want to thank everybody who voted for their favorite day. Here are the totals: Thursday: 21 Sunday: 13 no preference: 2 voting twice: 1 (Shame on you, Adam! ;>) Thursday it is. We are now working on confirming a date, and details like age policy (we want to have it open to everybody, but the final decision will not be ours to make). It will be at Cesar's Latin Palace, so there should be room for everybody (and then some!). Expect a great vibe, with free vegitarian food. More updates as they happen. Peace and love and a full belly, Kerry Hotsoup Productions From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 10:27:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA03371; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:27:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from VAX.SONOMA.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA03362; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:27:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from 130.157.38.158 (SA-6EN158.sonoma.edu) by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.0-7 #8366) id <01ICJ4UW29CY9PO3X7@SONOMA.EDU> for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 02 Dec 1996 10:24:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 10:36:00 +0000 From: ess kay three Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Reply-to: zintsmas@SONOMA.EDU Message-id: <31B01D10.3041@vax.sonoma.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk So I guess that everyone who wears Adidas is a gangsta. And does alot of drugs. And disses people who don't seem to be cool enough. Or something. So does that mean that I'm a gangsta when I decide to wear an Adidas jacket or shirt? And all my H20 polo player and swimmer friends who wear the Adidas sandals or have Adidas shit, they're all druggie gangstas too? Clothes don't make the person, the *person* does. At the risk of quoting an increasingly pathetic advertisement, as the Sprite commercial goes, "Image is nothing, thirst is everything, obey your thirst." What people look like or dress like is NOTHING. I've been in a "shitty space filled with a bunch of "A***** wearin gangstas" (and OTHER rude types) and it isn't drugs that can save your mood, it's your attitude. I mean you can be on DRUGS in a bad scene and have an even WORSE time. It's all in how you approach the whole night. If you go into a huge place with bad vibes you can say (soberly *or* high) "this sucks, I'm gonna have a shitty time, this fucking sucks! I'm gonna pop a few pills/tabs" and bitch and moan about it all night and have a bad time, or you can say "yea, the vibe's pretty nasty here, but i think i can pretty much ignore it and appreciate the music and whatever positive people there are around me" and have a not-so-bad if not great time. I heard alot of people saying "yea the vibe was shitty at _be here now_ but i had a GREAT time." It's all in the attitude, it's not in the drug. Raving *can* be appreciated sober. Hell some of the most dedicated ravers I know are straightedge! So if the vibe isn't all that great, try to focus on the music. And if you're hungry for an rEfrEshmEnt, go for it. But if you're taking it to avoid the bad vibes, you might end up having a worse time than you would have if you were sober. I kinda know from experience (can we say ground zero?). It's a personal choice. Stop slammin Adidas, i, and many others have been wearing it since they were kiddies, or since they started a sport, or just because they think it's a pretty dope label. I mean come on, it's a timeless classic. I love it.. But then, that's just me... Smiles.. LAra -- (sk3) [ J U N G L I S T ] . . . wishing on a star . . . From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 10:42:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA04921; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:42:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from switzerland.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA04915; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:42:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-26-41.sntc01.pacbell.net [206.170.26.41]) by switzerland.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22291 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:42:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32A323FF.629E@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 10:46:23 -0800 From: Courtney Nielsen X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-PBXE (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: PHISH!!! messages References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk somebody wrote: > > I think you're quite confused....your giving raves/raving a > bad name comparing it to a PHISH concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > What does PHISH have to do with raving anyway???? > NOTHING!!!!!!! So don't post it here w/out NRR! Wow. This is really lame. I'm tired of messages like this. So what if someone likes raves AND Phish at the same time (yes, they do have a lot in common, If one cannot see that then so be it, but thats your opinion, and it's not an opinion that calls for the e-mail equivalent of yelling and screaming). So what if its "NRR"? It's not like this is a business mailing list or something A lot of "ravers" are also Phish fans, and the vibe is the same in a lot of cases. I deal with enough complaints on the job. And I get paid to deal with those. It's really depressing when on my own time I have to see crap like this. This is a fucking mailing list about parties. So why are so many people on this list so pissed off at each other? I can understand the anger when it's used towards something like corrupt cops at a party, or other issues that affect us in that way, but when it's used towards someone who is just looking for fellow Phish fans who also happen to like to go to raves, or when someone is horribly inconvenienced for 4 seconds because there is that god-awful heathen of a NRR message in which someone forgot to state that in the subject field, it just seems really backwards. Anyway, enough of my complaining, i've unsubscribed. Courtney From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 10:46:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA05480; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA05377; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:45:47 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI02@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id NAA21316; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:45:10 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23044; Mon, 2 Dec 96 10:45:01 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 2A324240; Mon, 2 Dec 96 10:47:00 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:40:32 -0800 Message-Id: <2A324240.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re[2]: shitty post --> sober raving & E To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, zintsmas@SONOMA.EDU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk life is what we make of it. (no offence to the posteur) :) if i could only make a device that would translate all these bits into simple positive and negative signs, then the whole world would see... ++++, and ---- best regards, deepfog spare products support centre ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E Author: zintsmas@SONOMA.EDU at ccsmtp Date: 6/1/96 10:36 AM So I guess that everyone who wears Adidas...(meow meow meow) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 11:13:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA08295; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:13:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA08282; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:13:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com ([198.186.211.180]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id NAA29998 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:13:50 -0600 (CST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BBE042.6552F720@misnt1.rely.com>; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:17:25 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: Da Weekenz Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:17:22 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello hello, and happy Monday everybody..... Well here's my recap on the weekend (mind you, the weekend includes Thursday as well...) __Thanksgiving__ Not to overkill the positivity of Saturn 5's event I want to express the highlights. Dimension 7: The lights were amazing... Very intimate crowd and positivity factor was the highest this weekend. Berkeley: Getting the fire started. The effort of a bunch of ravers anticipating the party ready to go off (again) and putting that energy to do something constructive. After getting the fire going in the fireplace we all broke off into really nice conversation until the speaker setup got us gruuving. All in all Great Job!!! It was all that and cornstarch! __Ubiquitous__ Maybe more appropriately called "whothrewthis?". When there is a police presence @ the map point you know it's gonna be a bust. I do give small props to the novelty of the location. (I cracked a smile thinking that when the "suits" arrive on Monday they'll have no ider that a party was thrown there... ) The music was very east coastish from my perspective. Lotsa breakbeat (w/ the exception of that Eurithmetcs tune). But this seems to be the style that will keep techno alive, for better or worse. Had a great time getting to that techno level and busting a move or two. The move busting broke @ 2AM. when the party ended.. err, uhh. I felt for allthose that came down from "Sacatomatos" to get the boot and wonder what else to do... Highest and Lowest points: Getting caught in a breakers circle(+) and pulling, tearing, or causing some horrible damage to my left knee(-) in that circle... (ouch) __Hi Fi__ Saturday night. My brother was spinning some old skool hip-hop and despite having my knee in an Ace bandage and using a cane, I did manage to hit the dance floor for 1-2 hrs. The club was bumping and it's nice to view different mixing with different a style of music. Can't get over that alcohol consumption rate. Man, people really need excuses to get "loose" in this world sometimes. Drunk people sure do get bold!!! But, listening to some old school hip hop was pretty dope (remember EPMD, and the "Humpdy Dance" everyone???). Sunday was spent mixing at home (for 3+hrs.) and resting my leg / knee for the upcoming weekend. Perfecting that "Gansta lean" --Adam "Stay Connected" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 11:23:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA09560; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:23:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA09550; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:23:31 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA02503 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:22:58 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:22:58 -0500 Message-ID: <961202141637_1918480943@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Jonathan's Trip to England Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ok, I figured I was going to the Capital of Rave city...(whatever that is) I thought i was going to check out some sick party in the Warehouse district(wherever that is), i thought this is going to be a trip of a lifetime!!!!=) I went completley clueless, i didn't know anything about anything, so I figured I would just figure shit out as I went along. The second day i was there, I found a piece of paper that said Ministry of Sound...Bingo! Except the date was 9/12/96 a little to late.... :( Oh well. But there was a list of record stores where to buy pre-sale tickets so i figured wherever there are record stores there are flyers.. I also looked through the phonebook and every label you could imagine had n office there, there where about 300 + record stores listed so I just went to this place called Soho and went travelling around, I assumed that it would be cheaper to but domestics here, because they are imports here.. But the exchange rate was 2 bucks to 1 buck (around) in there favour, so i really didn't do to well! ;( I did score a TON of flyers though. When I asked where the break-beat was they guy said try stickn' your ear downstairs and listn'. I went downstairs at reckless records and hear some SICK jungle... There was a huge crowd down there and this guy was in the middle of a mix... absoulutley amazing!!! I have a lot of respect for jungle Dj's cause that shit is hard to mix! Well there idea of breakbeat was jungle so I was on my own. I went to some used record stores and scored some ORB on vinyl and Vapourspace, and some classics. You can't listen to the records so i ended up with some shit too! :( I didn't get to check out the rave scene because I was with my mum and pap and my brother and sister....:( but I got a glimse of what it was like at the record stores. I have a lot of extra flyers and I can spare some if people want some... just e-mail me and we can work something out. Overall I froze my little arse off and had to sight see all day, but I had a great time! Jonathan P.S. wasn't that really boring!!!!!!=) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 11:24:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA09664; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:24:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA09595; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:23:59 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA18377 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:23:13 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:23:13 -0500 Message-ID: <961202142236_1717993534@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: All this adidas stuff(Funny, i think) Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well at leat nobody is making fun of us Concord people sportin are Tommy hilfigga' and Fila, G! Yeah foolieos betta not come to concord cause Jondabomb gonna beat dat ass and leave a Nike footprint on your butt, cept it won't say NIKE it will say EKIN flipped over cause when you impress something it comes out backwards in stuff... Nough said! :) no wait i like this one better = ) Jonathan the g, in Concord WAYNE BETTER KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 11:26:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA09958; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:26:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA09876; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:26:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from drenalin@localhost) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.7.6/8.6.9) id LAA30105; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:38:12 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:38:11 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Nelson cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: PHISH!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, -=]madame mercury[=- wrote: > I think you're quite confused....your giving raves/raving a > bad name comparing it to a PHISH concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > What does PHISH have to do with raving anyway???? > NOTHING!!!!!!! So don't post it here w/out NRR! Gee what would you think if someone said that about raves?! I think you're quite confused....your giving Phish a bad name comparing it to a rave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember not everyone on this list cares about things others talk about, I for one don't care to get a run down on DJ Dan's personal life and how it relates to why his set wasn't up to par...but I don't go a flaming thar! peace and love drenalin I for one like Phish a lot, they have great talent, only wish I had known they were playing live...somebody let me know next time. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 11:31:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA10596; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA10570; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:30:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from natasha.coolware.com (mg132-007.ricochet.net [204.179.132.7]) by proxy1.ba.best.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id LAA24755 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:24:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961202192315.006cab6c@best.com> X-Sender: mdpkl@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 11:23:15 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" Subject: shall we blast each other? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hello all- very rarely do i publicly blast someone, but this message made me sick: > > I think you're quite confused....your giving raves/raving a > bad name comparing it to a PHISH concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > What does PHISH have to do with raving anyway???? > NOTHING!!!!!!! So don't post it here w/out NRR! > > MHg madame mercury, this message was entirely innapropriate. you have no right to tell someone else that their definition of raving is wrong. we each have our own definitions, and if you don't agree, either a)accept that other people have their own definitions and co-exist happily, b)keep going and successfully make it into everone's kill file (you're in many, already!), or c)go away. i am making this message public, not as a public blast of madame mercury (i could more easily do that privately where my language would not be so checked) but as a message to all: (and this is matt preaching) YOUR DEFINITION OF RAVING IS PROBABLY DIFFERENT FROM EVERYBODY ELSES! WE CAN EITHER BLAST EACH OTHER FOR THEIR DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS, OR WE CAN ACCEPT THEIR DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS AND CO-EXIST PEACEFULLY! thank you. madame mercury, i appologize for the public confrontation, but i was so struck by your message that i had to respond. no offense meant to your personally, just your message. love to you all, goddamnit! love- matt matthew d. p. k. lanier professional hugger and empath 415-752-3218 E-mail mailto:mdpkl@best.com pager mailto:lanima00@usfca.edu (up to 240 characters) _______ / \ / o o \ | ^ | | | ___ \ \_/ / ___ __(___\ \__ __/ /___)__ (______ \________\ /_________/ ______) (_______ ____________________ _______) (______ / \ ______) (_____/ \_____) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 12:16:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA17058; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:16:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from dec-7.CE.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA17022; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:15:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by dec-7.CE.Berkeley.EDU (5.57/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04078; Mon, 2 Dec 96 12:15:51 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:15:49 -0800 (PST) From: "J. Cohen" Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: ---SOBER RAVING, YOU CAN DO IT----- In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, _LiQuiD_ wrote: > > Well obviously there is an art to sober raving, and to keep up with all > those who are 'not' sober can sometimes be a challenge ;) > > But there are tons of ways to stay alive throughout the night. > > * ok, theres 'Vivarin' & NoDoze, they're great for some mild tweaking, > haha, just kidding, but they DO keep you 'UP'. Then again they > are very hard on your stomache, so never take too much. It isnt > something you should take for a long time... theres other the ways! > > * now theres 'herbal power' stuff. i have recently begun experiment > ing with this and it's great! a medium sized bottle of red ginseng > right before a party TOTALLY energized me! im looking further > into other herbal 'upers'. SOMETHING NOT TO TRY: MaHuang > Its as addictive as speed, and quite harmful. DONT GO THERE :! > > * and finally there are "energy boosters" that are available. i dont > know much about the products that are out there, like at GNC, but > i sell nutritional products that are sponsored by the US Olympic > Licensee comitee, and about 20 olympic atheletes, not to mention > ive tried their energy booster, its great! cheaper than a hit > of E, better for you than "psuedo-amphedamines", and works well. ....I guess you would have to call this the art of relatively sober raving....not quite clean but hey no after effects the next day (although afterglow can sometimes be better than the original ;) One thing that stumped me about the party was that when i got in (about 1 am) all four rooms had the same music spinning...ok maybe thats a bit prejudiced....maybe not exactly the same, there was house hard ass house, local house and really really hard house (i know i seem to lack the proper names) ....but it wasnt until 4AM that i first heard some breaks i think this saved the night for me. -j From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 12:23:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA18063; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:23:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from italy.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA18051; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:23:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from hunglich.address.com (Cust31.Max1.Santa-Clara.CA.MS.UU.NET [153.34.134.159]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA29066; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:21:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:21:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612022021.MAA29066@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: lexical@earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "-=]madame mercury[=-" From: lexical@earthlink.com (plex) Subject: Re: PHISH!!! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > I think you're quite confused....your giving raves/raving a > bad name comparing it to a PHISH concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > What does PHISH have to do with raving anyway???? > NOTHING!!!!!!! So don't post it here w/out NRR! > well it could be rave related if the people posting about phish were trying to reach the srfavers and ravers out there who like or went to see phish mmercury, so chill and display your so called plur. :) -plex- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 12:28:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA18512; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mhaaf.inhouse.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA18506; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:28:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from notes2.compuserve.com (cserve-aagw2.notes.compuserve.com [149.174.221.199]) by mhaaf.inhouse.compuserve.com (8.6.9/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA00120.; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:45:15 -0500 Received: by notes2.compuserve.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.17/2.0) id AA9250; Mon, 02 Dec 96 15:27:12 -0500 Message-Id: <9612022027.AA9250@notes2.compuserve.com> Received: by External Gateway (Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP V1.1) id 33EB2F0BAAC70000882563F4006E681C; Mon, 2 Dec 96 15:27:12 To: sfraves From: "nathan.b.beckord" Date: 2 Dec 96 12:14:34 Subject: Re: sober raving & E Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Regarding how to keep going when sober: Here is an easy solution, that is well-known by anyone who has spent an all-nighter at a casino in Vegas or Reno or who has been to "discos" in many European cities: Pump out a shot of oxygen every 20 minutes. It works!! I don't know what tanks of oxygen cost, but I don't think they're that expensive. It would seem that they could be integrated into the fog machines pretty easily. Just an idea for promoters. I for one would be willing to pay a little extra to gain the natural, healty and legal energy-boosting benefits of oxygen. Because I often have to work on weekends, only at about 1/3 of the raves I go to can I be "assistEd" by things. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 12:34:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA19048; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from hal.mobius.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA19035; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:34:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from fireball by hal.mobius.net with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0vUiF5-000JLhC; Mon, 2 Dec 96 15:57 PST Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961202204518.002f2a48@mail.mobius.net> X-Sender: pauly@mail.mobius.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 12:45:18 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: pauly Subject: thanksgiving techno story... Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk guys/gals: just got back from st. louis, missouri where i feasted on you-know-what. saw all my family, which was great, and managed to get some serious farm-style relaxation in (sat around and watched the lake). but here's a story that may support the "mainstreaming of techno" theory... my cousin richie is a die-hard electric guitarist, and he and all of his friends are traditional rock junkies. last christmas i introduced him and his friends to "beautiful people" (if you recall, it's the band that dubbed jimi hendrix last year) and it went over so-so. i thought it would fly because of jimi, right? but they kept switching back to soundgarden. right. so this thanksgiving i go back and guess what? richie says to me, "you gotta hear this cd, man! i looked for it on your x-radio site and i couldn't find it, but we all had a mega party a few weeks back and went crusing around in our limo with this up full blast and it ROCKED!" it was the CHEMICAL BROTHERS. say no more? p. ____________________________________________________ x-radio ____ ____ http://www.x-radio.com/x-radio/ ____________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 12:50:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA24731; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:50:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA24699; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:50:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:50:26 -0800 (PST) From: Sami Khoury To: pauly cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: thanksgiving techno story... In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961202204518.002f2a48@mail.mobius.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, pauly wrote: > so this thanksgiving i go back and guess what? richie says to me, "you > gotta hear this cd, man! i looked for it on your x-radio site and i > couldn't find it, but we all had a mega party a few weeks back and went > crusing around in our limo with this up full blast and it ROCKED!" > > it was the CHEMICAL BROTHERS. > > say no more? There's no doubt that techno is about to hit in the U.S., but do you recall which song of theirs was used in that Microsoft commercial? There was no way the ad people for that one would have chosen some driving, four-on-the-floor thing -- it would have been too much of a statement, too obviously electronic, and too "this is techno, we're hip". The song used in that commercial sounds very similar to garage. The riff was some heavily distorted loop and the beat was definitely pulled from a rock track of some kind. Granted, I like the song, but I think it figures that the one they would pick sounds vaguely "conventional". Sami From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 12:59:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA25500; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:59:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA25495; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:59:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA18889; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:54:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA849560679; Mon, 02 Dec 96 12:50:18 pst Date: Mon, 02 Dec 96 12:50:18 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9611028495.AA849560679@smtplink.acer.com> To: "J. Cohen" Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re[2]: ---SOBER RAVING, YOU CAN DO IT----- Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk What is a drug? People seem to think caffeine, ephedrine, ginseng, pseudephrine, and their over the counter relatives are not drugs just because they aren't illicit... THESE ARE DRUGS (well, ginseng might not count by some definitions). People are already moving to make 'Herbal E' style ephedrine supplements illegal due to some deaths associated with misuse (all cases implied 4 or more times the recommended dosage or use of other chemicals). Remember that misuse of drugs, not the drugs themselves, is the most common reason people die from them. Of the three drug OD fatalities I have been close to, two were on 100% legal shit. Perhaps we should have a war on ignorance instead... If anybody here has ever taken many Vivarin and can claim not to feel like absolute crap the next day, please step forward. Also, using caffeine to stay awake while driving is dangerous at best. Be careful. You can stay up all night at will. Just have a good time and you'll forget what time it is. I personally advocate raving sober AND not sober. Just enjoy yourself and those around you. Don't mope around in your sobriety like it's a cross to bear or something. Oh, and you all forgot the magic elixir that got me through most of Thursday night... CHAI!!! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 13:09:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA26414; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:09:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA26410; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:09:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.178.41.41] ([205.178.41.41]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with ESMTP id NAA07392 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:07:17 -0800 X-Sender: branka@pop.sirius.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:08:15 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: *B* Subject: Long weekend review Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I wish weekend was a little longer, but that is probably because I am still tired from going out on Saturday :(. Wed - Wish Fun, fun, fun - I really like going to Wish, maybe because I really like having a drink or two (or how-ever-many I want) and dancing to good music. A lot of my friends were there, and after having few beers and few pink lemonades, I made sure I met people that I haven't met before. And whoever always puts alcohol down at parties is damn wrong. I feel like I am such a good "drinker", I always meet people, I am nice and I personally don't think there is anything wrong with my behavior (if you ever saw me under the influence when I wasn't behaving nicely please let me know, and I will keep it in mind). Thursday - Thanksgiving After trying to get rid of my hangover (I guess that is the only bad thing about drinking), having little turkey dinner, I was really looking forward to going to this party (I have been looking forward to it since I heard of it, because my B-Day was on 29th [after midnight], and Jon Carel and MYSTR-E were spinning). Due to whatever (supposedly it was all my fault) my BF Marc and I got in a pretty bad fight right before we went out :(. I thought the fight was over and we would have fun, but little did I know. So, by the time we got there, things kept getting worse. So, if you saw me, you knew me, and you thought I was rude because I wasn't talking to any of you, please don't be mad at me - I was basically trying not to be too upset and trying not to think about the whole situation... Enough about that.... The party itself was fun - thanks Steve and others for all the effort you guys put in. I had fun listening to Jon Carel (and dancing a little bit), and I just started getting into MYSTR-E's set when the party got broken down... It was sad, because it was my B-Day, my eyes were all red and big from crying, MYSTR-E was spinning, and the party just got busted (this was my first busted party as well). I guess I just couldn't deal with anything any more, and although we tried calling voice-mail once (my roomate Ana really wanted to go back), three of us stayed home and fell asleep. Saturday - Be Here Now / Tribal Funk Marc, Ana, Sy and I went together (around 11pm) and although we had pre-sale tickets, we didn't avoid the line (the VM said if you had tickets you wouldn't have to wait in line). The line was not as bad, so after getting inside the only thing I kept thinking about was FTT and comparing it (mistake, but I guess it was still fresh in my mind). The decorations in rooms were nowhere close to FTTs, and for some reason the music was not as great. I met some people from SFR that I haven't met before (hi Micron and MHg). Things that could have been better: - bathrooms inside, rather than going outside in the rain and getting all wet and cold - Tribal Funk's room's ventilation - it was way too hot and although the music was my favorite there, I couldn't stay there for too long - DJ Dan's set - FTTs was way better - Tony spinning early *again* - wet, dirty floors I did have fun, but I guess not as much as at FTT. Maybe Gathering will be better. Time to go to lunch - see ya, *B* From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 13:13:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA26811; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:13:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA26777; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:13:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com ([198.186.211.180]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id OAA06117 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:43:39 -0600 (CST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BBE04F.0EAA7170@misnt1.rely.com>; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:48:03 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'sfraves'" , "'nathan.b.beckord'" Subject: RE: sober raving & E Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 12:48:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hmm, pure oxygen... Isn't that, like, flammable or something? I think the flammability factor would go down when dispersed, but a concentrated amount coming out of a fogger??? just pondering... ---Adam >---------- >From: nathan.b.beckord >Subject: Re: sober raving & E > >Regarding how to keep going when sober: > >Pump out a shot of oxygen every 20 minutes. It works!! > >I don't know what tanks of oxygen cost, but I don't think they're that >expensive. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 13:15:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA26938; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:15:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from switzerland.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA26906; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:14:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from Default (Cust123.Max2.San-Francisco.CA.MS.UU.NET [153.35.234.123]) by switzerland.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07542; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:14:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:14:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961202131305.0def264a@earthlink.net> X-Sender: shannonr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Courtney Nielsen From: Shannon Subject: Re: PHISH!!! messages Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 10:46 AM 12/2/96 -0800, you wrote: >somebody wrote: >> >> I think you're quite confused....your giving raves/raving a >> bad name comparing it to a PHISH concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> >> What does PHISH have to do with raving anyway???? >> NOTHING!!!!!!! So don't post it here w/out NRR! > > at : am 12/2/96, courtney nielsen: Wow. This is really lame. > >I'm tired of messages like this. So what if someone likes raves AND Phish at the same time (yes, they do >have a lot in common, If one cannot see that then so be it, but thats your opinion, and it's not an opinion you know, i was introduced to PHISH by a fellow raver. i have never had the chance to go to a phish show but have been a part of the grateful dead scene for longer than the rave scene. i know i will probably be flamed for bringing up the dead, but oh well. you know, both the grateful dead and phish scenes have attracted a number of ravers. the scenes both give you the great vibe, loving family feel that raving inspires as well. rather than rehashing the view of how that was such a harsh response, i would rather like to say that it's too bad that you have never taken the time to enjoy something considered non rave related. there is a whole world of music out there of really cool things that once inspired house, techno, jungle musicians which took their music to another level. (some of these influnces were even sampled into the music you enjoy!) when i responded to the first person who posted about phish, i was invited to a mini party in the parking lot where they would be spinning some tunes.(thank you for the invite, i am sorry i missed it!) in the past, dj's we all have seen posted here, have spun in the parking lots of grateful dead shows. although you will never find jungle music at a phish show, you are guaranteed to catch some really funky beats! i am sure, since many heads are also into the phish, you are sure to enjoy some killer drum circles and great people to dance the night away with! you know, there are things posted that i maybe do not have interest in or knowledge in, but i would never think to flame them for my lack of interest. you know, i live with my boyfriend, who happens to be an electronic musician (courtney). i do not have the knowledge to even understand what all goes into his music but i have had the pleasure to be at a rave where his music has been played, and just love the end result with all the others! there are posts here on musical instruments that i know nothing about, i just hit delete, no big deal. i strayed, i know. point is, if your into it, go with it. if your not or do not choose to be a part of it, leave it out. just my $.02. this was not meant to anger anyone, rather my goal is to show you all how everything is intertwind. peace, shannon ~~although it is a dogs life for a cool kat~~ ~~it is the beauty, hope and togetherness that i will forever believe~~ ~~the cappuccino kid (a.k.a. paul weller)~~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 13:20:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA27606; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from yam.tenetwork.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA27592; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from Feynman.tenetwork.com (feynman.tenetwork.com [10.10.2.99]) by yam.tenetwork.com (8.7.6/8.7.2) with SMTP id NAA13805; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:13:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32A356C4.22E8@ten.net> Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 14:23:00 -0800 From: Pengo Reply-To: Pengo@ten.net Organization: Pengo Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com CC: pengo@ten.net Subject: The Power of SFRaves..... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I almost forgot to tell you guys about this: Okay, back after the "Wrinkle in Time" party, I put up a post telling everyone the results of having a VR set at the party. In it I mentioned that if anyone wanted to say "Thank You" to my friend who let me barrow the equipment, just send him email. Welllll.... I didn't see my friend at work untill the end of that week on Fri. I went up and asked him if he got any thank you emails from people about the VR set. "Yea" he said "I got so many damn emails about that I had to stop replying!!" He got something like 30 emails!!! Even though he was a bit overwhelmed, he was actually very gratious for everyones appreciation!! :D That right there shows the power of this thing we call SFRaves... And thank you so much to everyone who sent my friend Jeff a Thank You letter!! <<>> :) <--Note the smiley. -=Pengo=- Blake "Pengo" Merriam TOTAL ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK WWW.TEN.NET From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 13:28:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA28245; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:28:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocketsci.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA28231; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from Patrick-pc.rocketsci.com by rocketsci.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA07454; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:27:37 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961202212846.009b7ef4@rocketsci.com> X-Sender: swatkins@rocketsci.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 13:28:46 -0800 To: Sami Khoury From: Sam Watkins Subject: Re: thanksgiving techno story... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 12:50 PM 12/2/96 -0800, you wrote: >There's no doubt that techno is about to hit in the U.S., but do you >recall which song of theirs was used in that Microsoft commercial? wasn't that jam called something like MOTHER MERCURY or somthing to that effect?? that choon got LOTS of airplay (read: @ partee's) in the midwest (other scenes too i'm sure) back in '94. kinda startled me the first time i saw that microslut ad...bill's one hip cat ;P -beatjakr ___________________________________________ ********** h i g h e r f i d e l i t y *************** ********* c o m m u n i c a t i o n s ************* ********* deep beats for freeks with jeeps ************* ___________________________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 13:31:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA28494; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:31:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA28489; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:31:19 -0800 (PST) From: drenalin@salinas.net Received: from [205.179.129.2] (artichoke.salinas.net [205.179.129.2]) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.7.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA31720 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:43:29 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 13:47:39 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: (bsp) Cloud Factory New Year's Eve Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Pre Sale tickets for our New Year's Eve event are now on sale in the city and the east bay. In the city you can pick them up at Frequency-8 on upper haight. In the east bay you can pick them up at Drop Beat on College Avenue (berkeley/north oakland). The tickets are $10. If you aren't going to be able to afford a ticket email me and we'll work something out, if you are to far away to get tickets email me and I'll set up a mail order for you. Thanks Hope to see you there... love drenalin http://www.cloudfactory.org/ for more info about djs and such ------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Nelson - drenalin@cloudfactory.org http://www.cloudfactory.org/~drenalin (408) 759-2875 pager (800) 974-5211 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 13:48:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA00125; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:48:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA29955; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:47:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id NAA27848; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:47:10 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id NAA18362; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:47:09 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:47:09 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: PHISH!!! To: "-=]madame mercury[=-" cc: presumed , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, -=]madame mercury[=- wrote: > > I think you're quite confused....your giving raves/raving a > bad name comparing it to a PHISH concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > What does PHISH have to do with raving anyway???? > NOTHING!!!!!!! So don't post it here w/out NRR! Sounds like the madame could use a hug also. How about it gang? Let's all give Sherry a big cyber-hug. )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))SQUEEZE!!((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( =) Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namasate) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ( ( We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ) ) ( ( ) ) (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ( (__________________________________________________________________________) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 14:12:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA02604; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:12:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA02599; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:12:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (raygun@localhost) by value.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00641 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:12:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:12:30 -0800 (PST) From: Reagan Reid To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Raving in Florida... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I will be going to the lovely state of Florida from Dec.28th to Jan.11th and was wondering what there was to do in the Miami and Keys areas in the way of trance/techno/jungle/etc.- friendly clubs and upcoming parties. If anyone out there can send me some info.; I'd really appreciate it!:). Also, is there a raves mailing list for Florida? Love- Reagan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 14:18:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA03086; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA03081; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy1.ba.best.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA17529 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:15:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:15:32 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Ward To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: my $.02 on phishies Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk We're never going to solve this, folks. On the one hand, Phish has very little to do with the rave scene. Sure lots of phisheads like raving, and that's cool, but it's also true that a spam of posts about a concert with no 'NRR' tags on it is going to invite flames. On the other hand, we'd hate to constrain this list and lose all the extraneous, but interesting conversations we have about raver culture..which is much larger than raves themselves. My two cents? If you want to see if anyone else is going to the show, then post a message with NRR in the subject...Perhaps replies should be made in private and not forwarded to the list. I have nothing against the band personally, but I think a lot of fans take it personally when someone flames them. So let's try to view both sides before posting NRR material, and likewise do the same beofore flaming people for posting info you might not be interested in. -peace out- alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 14:55:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA06277; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:55:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA06267; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:55:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.32.192.224] (ch051.Chance.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.192.224]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA06479; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:55:04 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: ginsberg@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <329D6FEA.2A80@uclink4.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 14:55:00 -0800 To: "Matt _I Hate Cal's Email System_ Gedigian" From: David Ginsberg Subject: Re: FW: Imagination without knowledge... (nrr) Cc: SF Raves Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Matt _I Hate Cal's Email System_ Gedigian writes (11/28/96 at 2:56 AM -0800): > The issue isn't to what ends man has applied its knowledge. The fact >that the advances we have made, and we _have_ made advances, required >language is the point. Actually that is the issue - I think you're completely missing the point, Matt. If you want to talk about the effects of language then you should consider all of them, not just those that satisify some psychological need to believe in progress or that everything's okay. > Animals, like the _domesticated_ house cat, are not the best example, >I'm sure you'd agree. Some animals live brutal lives based on those >"lower functions." Like I said, I'm not aware of a single case of anything like genocide except among language-bearing humans. I don't understand your sentence about domesticated animals, and if I were you I wouldn't be so certain that anyone would agree without some serious convincing from you (which remains to be seen). I'm open to having mind changed...but you'll have to work harder than this. > And language skills are essential to _avoid_ the problems you >mentioned. Correction: Language skills MAY help to avoid such problems, though of course history is replete with examples to the contrary. And the problems themselves don't arise in the first place without language and the societal structures it engenders. My point isn't that language is all bad...just that there's much more to it than terms like "advancement" and moving "higher" suggest. I doubt whether we should ascribe something like "progress" to linguistic-conceptual development any more than we do to phylogenetic development. There is change, and over time a tendency toward more complexity. >Here is a Hawkings quote which I think is right on target... > >For millions of years, mankind livd just like animals. >Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. >We learned too talk. >And we learned to listen. >Speech has allowed the cuhmunication of ideas, enabling human beings to > work together. >To build the impossible. >Mankind's greatest achievements have come about by talking. >And it's greatest failures by NOT talking. >IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THIS! >Our greatest hopes could become reality in the future. >With the technology at our disposal, the possibilities are unbounded. >All we need to do is ... > make sure ... > we keep... > talking . Nice quote...of course it's about communication, not about the effects of language on consciousness. And language is merely one form of communication among many. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 15:16:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA08387; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:16:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA08365; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:15:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv3.apple.com (A17-128-100-121.apple.com [17.128.100.121]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA14580; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:15:01 -0800 Received: from [17.221.20.215] (campma.apple.com [17.221.20.215]) by scv3.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA61650; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:16:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199612022316.PAA61650@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Cabin Music Update Part II Date: Mon, 2 Dec 96 15:15:53 -0800 x-sender: camp@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "Mark D. Camp" To: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , cc: "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Just wanted to update y'all on the Cabin Music Tapes. I'm having a friend check for me on Prices for tape duplications (he's got 'connections'). So I should have a total price by tomorrow. I'll keep you all informed. So far I've got about 30 orders for tapes. If there is anybody else in SFR land that wants tapes, please send me a Mail letting me know. peace -M *______________*______________* !E.A.C! Astronout 408 SpaceLounge Electronic Artists Collective From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 15:28:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA09721; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:28:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay7.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA09692; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:28:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from heald.edu by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbskj09015; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:28:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp105.hayward.heald.edu (ppp101.hayward.heald.edu) by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA07460; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:34:47 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:34:46 -0800 Message-Id: <9612022334.AA07460@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Aryck Subject: NRR: Yeah. . . who's cool. . . Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Killer, I got the job I wanted in Oakland. It's supposed to be kinda hard. NO PROB! I'll be working full time and going to school, fun fun fun. . . Wish me luck! Now at least, I can fix my truck the way I want it, and I can get my bike that's been on hold for like 4 months. I'm gonna just ride, snowboard, and dance my brains out (on the weekends). And I'll actually have money<----WHOA!!! Thanks fer your support, hope I can keep up with the list n all. . . No MAD for me tonight, I don't wanna go to work all dead looking. SMILE:) Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 15:28:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA09763; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay7.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA09700; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from heald.edu by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbskj09021; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:28:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp101.hayward.heald.edu by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AB07460; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:34:49 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:34:49 -0800 Message-Id: <9612022334.AB07460@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: 2oo1 From: Aryck Subject: Re: coolworld Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 04:12 AM 11/26/96 -0800, you wrote: >I was thinking about going to that New Years thing by CW, until i saw >the price tag. i mean, i like big raves, but no way in hell will i pay >that ammount of cash no matter who is doing it and what its for, even if >there is a space craft landing zone on top. i do recall a time when CW >raves pre-sell tickets were like $20 or $15 or something, but call me >cheap, $25 [i think] for pre-sell is way too much. and $35 at the door is >insane. > > > > > YEP! You got it mann. . . you know whussup! (not being sarcastic) Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 15:36:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA11169; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:36:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA11163; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:36:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:40:10 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:38:14 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Joe Rice Subject: mad (bsp) Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk tonight: 12/2 DJs: James Dee Monty Sho at Bahia Cabana - 1600 Market @ Franklin 18+ w/ID $2 before 11 $3 after 11 (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 15:47:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA12050; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:47:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA12039; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:47:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.253.162.77] (wayne.eff.org [204.253.162.77]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA20152; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:46:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199612020644.WAA11195@uclink4.berkeley.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:39:12 -0800 To: "-=]madame mercury[=-" , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Wayne D. Correia" Subject: huge signatures don't seem to be RR either Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 9:27 AM -0800 12/2/96, -=]madame mercury[=- wrote: > I think you're quite confused....your giving raves/raving a > bad name comparing it to a PHISH concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > What does PHISH have to do with raving anyway???? > NOTHING!!!!!!! So don't post it here w/out NRR! > > MHg > And your 37 line signature that is appended to the bottom of each and every one of your one-line replies you make to messages does? Come on! There are nearly 450 people on this list that have to download and read your HUGE signature from each and every one of your posts! Less is more. please? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 15:47:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA12136; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:47:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA12129; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.253.162.77] (wayne.eff.org [204.253.162.77]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA20150; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:46:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <961202142236_1717993534@emout15.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:25:45 -0800 To: Jondabomb@aol.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Wayne D. Correia" Subject: Re: All this adidas stuff(Funny, i think) Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 2:23 PM -0500 12/2/96, Jondabomb@aol.com wrote: >Well at leat nobody is making fun of us Concord people sportin are Tommy >hilfigga' and Fila, G! >Yeah foolieos betta not come to concord cause Jondabomb gonna beat dat ass >and leave a Nike footprint on your butt, cept it won't say NIKE it will say >EKIN flipped over cause when you impress something it comes out backwards in >stuff... > >Nough said! :) no wait i like this one better = ) > >Jonathan >the g, in Concord WAYNE BETTER KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT! Yo G, I'm down with that. In fact, I now only wear Tommy H. word. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 15:53:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA12617; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:53:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from goonsquad.spies.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA12607; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:54:27 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1996-Aug-2) Message-Id: From: sho@goonsquad.spies.com (Sho Kuwamoto) Subject: Re: mad (bsp) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfraves) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:54:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Joe Rice" at Dec 2, 96 03:38:14 pm Content-Type: text Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > DJs > > James Dee > Monty > Sho ...and in case you're interested, James and I are planning on doing a tagteam for about 20 minutes or so as we switch between our sets, since we both like to do a lot of tricks. See you tonight! -Sho From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 15:55:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA12845; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:55:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA12836; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:55:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.253.162.77] (wayne.eff.org [204.253.162.77]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA20263; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:55:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199612022316.PAA61650@scv3.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:52:33 -0800 To: "Mark D. Camp" From: "Wayne D. Correia" Subject: Re: Cabin Music Update Part II Cc: "sfraves" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I found an ad in BAM for tape duplicating. I have no idea if this place is reasonable or what, but I figured I would throw it out. Northwestern Incorporated demo package -mastering -on-cassette imprint -c-30 digital bin pr real time -duplication on TDK cobalt tape -norelco clear case 100 - $1.65 each 200 - $1.45 each. Maybe they can give you a quote on 50? :-) -w From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 15:56:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA12898; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA12889; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:56:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from kelly.teleport.com (kelly.teleport.com [192.108.254.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA19451; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:55:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chicchan@localhost) by kelly.teleport.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id PAA23148; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:54:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 15:54:56 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: "Wayne D. Correia" cc: "-=]madame mercury[=-" , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: huge signatures don't seem to be RR either In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk uh...love you guys! peace from portland, brenda :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 16:04:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA13714; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:04:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from epic14.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA13704; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:04:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gonzo@localhost) by epic14.Stanford.EDU (8.8.3/8.8.3) id QAA10365; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:03:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:03:41 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Mark Logan To: "Wayne D. Correia" cc: "-=]madame mercury[=-" , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: huge signatures don't seem to be RR either In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Wayne D. Correia wrote: > > Less is more. please? > Ten points if you can tell us who coined that phrase! (Now back to our regularly scheduled flamefest) jon 'artsy fartsy' logan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 16:14:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA14508; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:14:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from uhost.ampex.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA14503; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:14:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ampex.com (amppo.ampex.com) by uhost.ampex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29286; Mon, 2 Dec 96 16:12:57 PST Received: from rwc-serv.ampex by ampex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08011; Mon, 2 Dec 96 16:17:45 PST Received: from dst-s4-130.ampex by rwc-serv.ampex (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA13323; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:15:27 -0800 Received: by dst-s4-130.ampex (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA07464; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:12:05 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:12:05 -0800 From: grant@ampex.com (Grant Melvin) Message-Id: <199612030012.QAA07464@dst-s4-130.ampex> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Less is more X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > > > > Less is more. please? > > > Big Brother in George Orwell's 1984! > > Ten points if you can tell us who coined that phrase! > > (Now back to our regularly scheduled flamefest) > > jon 'artsy fartsy' logan > > Ching, Ching! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 16:20:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA15290; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:20:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA15273; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:20:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv1.apple.com (A17-128-100-119.apple.com [17.128.100.119]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA28668; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:19:00 -0800 Received: from [17.221.20.215] (campma.apple.com [17.221.20.215]) by scv1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA68702; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:21:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199612030021.QAA68702@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: huge signatures don't seem to be RR either Date: Mon, 2 Dec 96 16:20:16 -0800 x-sender: camp@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "Mark D. Camp" To: "Wayne D. Correia" , "-=]madame mercury[=-" , "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >And your 37 line signature that is appended to the bottom of each and every >one of your one-line replies you make to messages does? > >Come on! There are nearly 450 people on this list that have to download and >read your HUGE signature from each and every one of your posts! > >Less is more. please? Oh, come on. This is getting a bit rediculous. If you are going to flame people for the sig not being Rave Related, you might as well flame them for signing their name. Peoples names have nothing to do with Raves. People, dont sign your name to your SFR posts anymore, thats not Rave Related. geez. Is everybody having a good Moday?? oops, sorry, thats not rave related. -M *______________*______________* !E.A.C! Astronout 408 SpaceLounge Electronic Artists Collective From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 16:28:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA16215; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:28:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom4.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA16207; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:28:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom4.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id QAA11895; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:28:24 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199612030028.QAA11895@netcom4.netcom.com> Subject: Astral Matrix in Santa Cruz Thurs? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:28:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: MaryP76944@aol.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves ] I just wanted to confirm if Astal Matrix is doing a live set in Santa Cruz this Thursday ( Dec. 5th ). Will it be at this weekly event? If so, what's the start/stop times? : Ascendance - house, techno, trance w/DJs guest DJs weekly. 1133 Pacific Ave, Santa Cruz. ( "Palookaville" club ) 408.429.2330 12.5 - Astral Matrix, Greg, Kamia It might be worth driving over the hills for... and I can do some pre-show Christmas shopping too! Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 16:30:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA16404; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:30:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA16376; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:30:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [207.33.94.122] (a122.value.net [207.33.94.122]) by value.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA15698; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:30:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:32:53 -0800 To: David Ginsberg From: bri@value.net (Brian Denny) Subject: Re: Imagination without knowledge... (nrr) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >that there's much more to it than terms like "advancement" and moving >"higher" suggest. I doubt whether we should ascribe something like y'all should read Mark Twain's "Descent of Man from the Higher Animals"... excellent satire questioning the idea that we are "higher" and "advanced". anyone here know the difference between an anaconda and an earl? love, brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 16:45:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA17823; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:45:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from junior.stanford.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA17818; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:45:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gonzo@localhost) by junior.stanford.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) id QAA14289; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:44:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:44:59 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Mark Logan To: Grant Melvin cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Less is more In-Reply-To: <199612030012.QAA07464@dst-s4-130.ampex> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Erm, no. Please play again! On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Grant Melvin wrote: > > > > > > > > > Less is more. please? > > > > > > > Big Brother in George Orwell's 1984! > > > > > Ten points if you can tell us who coined that phrase! > > > > (Now back to our regularly scheduled flamefest) > > > > jon 'artsy fartsy' logan > > > > > Ching, Ching! > --------------------------------------------------------- Jesus saves souls and redeems them for valuable cash prizes. --------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 16:45:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA17890; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:45:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from marble.litc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA17885; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com (arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.2.84]) by marble.litc.lockheed.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA13573 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:45:12 -0700 (MST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBE070.31AF4670@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:45:15 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: Jonathan Mark Logan , sfraves - send mail to list Subject: Re: huge signatures don't seem to be RR either Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:44:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >> Ten points if you can tell us who coined that phrase! Mies Van der Rohe jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... ---------- From: Jonathan Mark Logan To: Wayne D. Correia Cc: -=]madame mercury[=-; sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: huge signatures don't seem to be RR either Date: Monday, December 02, 1996 4:03PM On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Wayne D. Correia wrote: > > Less is more. please? > Ten points if you can tell us who coined that phrase! (Now back to our regularly scheduled flamefest) jon 'artsy fartsy' logan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 16:53:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA18502; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:53:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from marble.litc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA18495; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:53:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com (arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.2.84]) by marble.litc.lockheed.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA14965 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:53:19 -0700 (MST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBE071.54099120@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:53:22 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: "bri@value.net" , sfraves - send mail to list Subject: NRR: What is wrong with admitting we are more advanced? Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:52:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk One CAN be more advanced and still realize that we are not perfect. What is the point of trying to say that we as humans are not more advanced than the other creatures on this planet? It's like opposing Prop 209 because it does nothing to protect Medicare..... jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... ---------- From: bri@value.net To: David Ginsberg Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Imagination without knowledge... (nrr) Date: Monday, December 02, 1996 4:32PM >that there's much more to it than terms like "advancement" and moving >"higher" suggest. I doubt whether we should ascribe something like y'all should read Mark Twain's "Descent of Man from the Higher Animals"... excellent satire questioning the idea that we are "higher" and "advanced". anyone here know the difference between an anaconda and an earl? love, brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 16:56:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA18654; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:56:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA18648; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:56:14 -0800 (PST) From: inanna@slip.net Received: from slip.net.slip.net [207.171.196.60] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUj8p-0005xK-00; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:55:20 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961202163218.00699db8@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: inanna@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 16:55:48 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: YOU are invited to dinner! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ffff,0000,0000Monday Night Dinner, (always at 8:30 pm,) a different cuisine and location each week. 0000,0000,ffffWe are a haphazard collection of ravers who get together to properly wind down their weekend; or; rev their engines for the coming week of parties. Everyone who reads this is welcome to come. Be there or be talked about! Join our happy group next on December 2nd at: 8080,0000,8080Cafe Claude8080,0000,8080 French cuisine at 7 Claude Lane (off Bush:which is between Kearney and Grant), San Francisco Telephone: (415) 392-3505 Prices: entrees around $9 A small taste of Paris in a narrow dining room and bar. Head to the onion soup, pizza or roast chicken. Afterwards we go ffff,0000,0000MAD! <<<> DJs tonight: James Dee Monty Sho
RSVP for a place at the table to inanna@slip.net
From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 16:56:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA18722; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:56:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA18696; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:56:38 -0800 (PST) From: inanna@slip.net Received: from slip.net.slip.net [207.171.196.60] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vUj8w-0005xK-00; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:55:26 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961202163458.00699db8@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: inanna@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 16:55:54 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: YOU are invited to dinner! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ffff,0000,0000Monday Night Dinner, (always at 8:30 pm,) a different cuisine and location each week. 0000,0000,ffffWe are a haphazard collection of ravers who get together to properly wind down their weekend; or; rev their engines for the coming week of parties. Everyone who reads this is welcome to come. Be there or be talked about! Join our happy group next on December 2nd at: 8080,0000,8080Cafe Claude8080,0000,8080 French cuisine at 7 Claude Lane (off Bush:which is between Kearney and Grant), San Francisco Telephone: (415) 392-3505 Prices: entrees around $9 A small taste of Paris in a narrow dining room and bar. Head to the onion soup, pizza or roast chicken. Afterwards we go ffff,0000,0000MAD! <<<> DJs tonight: James Dee Monty Sho
RSVP for a place at the table to inanna@slip.net
From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 16:58:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA18926; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA18892; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:58:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [207.33.94.122] (a101.value.net [207.33.94.101]) by value.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA18300 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 16:58:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:00:49 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: bri@value.net (Brian Denny) Subject: non-rave-related material Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [if you don't like this post, flame me _privately_. public flaming will automatically get you added to my ever-growing kill file.] ok, folks, let's take a deep breath and look in the virtual mirror. we're on a mailing list. not everything that's posted to sfraves is stuff we all want to read. i, for one, _read_ 90% of mail marked NRR, where as i _delete_ a good 70% of the stuff that's not, without a second glance. this is not so much because i prefer reading NRR material, it's because all the stupid fools (flames invited here;) who post shit i don't want to read always forget to put NRR in the title... but i delete a lot of rave-related material too. generally, i hear about the good parties from my friends, not from sfraves. and i've really grown tired of reading weekend reviews, with some exceptions. but i don't begrudge those who want to post this stuff. there are filtering mechanisms for those who want to avoid some mail. because of all the fuck-ups :) who don't use "NRR", that one's of little use, but they still can be helpful. i have filters set up to automatically trash anything with "overpriced", "gangsta", "coolworld", "massive", or "adidas" in the subject header, as well as filters for a few individuals whose names i won't mention. if you need help with filtering, please ask. finally, many of our bandwidth/nrr issues could be resolved if we could please _flame people PRIVATELY_. if anyone on this list actually likes reading other people's flames, i'd love to hear about it. so let's all chill out and respect each other, and make this mailing list a plurrier place for all. love (even to those i just insulted the hell out of), brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 17:14:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA20286; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:14:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuba.aix.calpoly.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA20266; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:14:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by tuba.aix.calpoly.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA60604; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:13:42 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:13:41 -0800 (PST) From: Austin Woffington To: Christina Hurley Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Sex and E, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Christina Hurley wrote: > > I have been told that the manufacture of "E" creates toxic waste on par > with the manufacture of speed. I don't know any hard facts about this > but wondered why this was never a discussion topic among ravers (being so > Eco-conscience and such [pun intended]). Where is all of this waste > going? Do we care? Does anyone know the facts about the > destructiveness/potency of such waste? > > I'm interested. Well I'm an Environmental Engineer and so maybe this is something I could get into? I could set up a company to dispose of all drug related waste. all those Speed and E manufaturers could send me their remains. You could even send me you resin from all the pipes and bongs in Cali. I could even set up a plant here in San Luis Obisbo since the majority of the crank labs have been reported to be in this area. All those "lawabiding" lab owners will send me their waste in exchage for a cleaner tommorrow. This might drive up the price of your drugs but atleast we won't have hazerdouse chemicals in our groundwater. Life is good. Well I'm just playin' but in acctuallity it will never happen. Its a sad thing but bad things happen all the time to the environment. What about all those leagal companies who dump thier waste in the ground, streams, rivers, lakes and such with out your knoledge just to save a buck and we all suffer. Maybe some day everyone will realize what we have and we should all take care of what we got left. > > lovetina > > PLUR, Austin ------------------( ( ( ((0)) ) ) )----------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 17:15:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA20391; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:15:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA20383; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:15:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id RAA27739; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:15:30 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id RAA21340; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:15:29 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:15:29 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Astral Matrix in Santa Cruz Thurs? To: Larry Ching cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, MaryP76944@aol.com In-Reply-To: <199612030028.QAA11895@netcom4.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Larry Ching wrote: > [ to sfraves ] > > I just wanted to confirm if Astal Matrix is doing a live set in > Santa Cruz this Thursday ( Dec. 5th ). Will it be at this weekly > event? If so, what's the start/stop times? : > > Ascendance - house, techno, trance w/DJs guest DJs weekly. > 1133 Pacific Ave, Santa Cruz. ( "Palookaville" club ) > 408.429.2330 > 12.5 - Astral Matrix, Greg, Kamia > > It might be worth driving over the hills for... and I can do > some pre-show Christmas shopping too! I'll be there!! Greg is spinning!!! =) peas, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namasate) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ( ( We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ) ) ( ( ) ) (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ( (__________________________________________________________________________) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 17:20:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA20952; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:20:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA20944; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:20:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id RAA28879; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:20:26 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id RAA22209; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:20:26 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:20:25 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: non-rave-related material To: Brian Denny cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Brian Denny wrote: > [if you don't like this post, flame me _privately_. public flaming will > automatically get you added to my ever-growing kill file.] oh so it's threats now?!?!!? ;) oh please massa! don't put me on yo kill file! anythin but that!!!! (my apologies for any offended by the racial humor) Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namasate) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ( ( We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ) ) ( ( ) ) (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ( (__________________________________________________________________________) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 17:26:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA21501; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:26:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mhaaf.inhouse.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA21490; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:26:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from notes2.compuserve.com (cserve-aagw2.notes.compuserve.com [149.174.221.199]) by mhaaf.inhouse.compuserve.com (8.6.9/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA03201.; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 21:43:52 -0500 Received: by notes2.compuserve.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.17/2.0) id AA6286; Mon, 02 Dec 96 20:25:47 -0500 Message-Id: <9612030125.AA6286@notes2.compuserve.com> Received: by External Gateway (Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP V1.1) id 33EB2F0BAAC70000882563F50004A4F5; Mon, 2 Dec 96 20:25:46 To: sfraves From: "nathan.b.beckord" Date: 2 Dec 96 17:22:30 Subject: RE: sober raving & E Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk _ >Hmm, pure oxygen... Isn't that, like, flammable or something? >I think the flammability factor would go down when dispersed, but a >concentrated amount coming out of a fogger??? >just pondering... ---Adam Most likely it is, in concentrated blasts. But casinos have been pumping oxygen into their gambling for years, and smoking is allowed there. Many a good 36-hour stint was pulled at the tables back in the good ole days of college thanks to the oxygen pumps. According to one dealer, they start pumping it up around 1 am and continue increasing it until the morning. Anyone from Reno on the list, to say how to set up an oxygen system? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 17:27:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA21669; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:27:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from typhoon.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA21631; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:27:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dlb@localhost) by typhoon.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA02981; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:27:34 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:27:31 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bayer X-Sender: dlb@typhoon.Berkeley.EDU To: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: Re: UBIQUITOUS too good to be true? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I am not defending Ubiquitous, I heard it was thrown by someone who thought raves were the greatest way to make money yet..... but.... On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Peter Von Tews wrote: > If you were a promoter, would you dish out $15,000 to throw a party for the > people? or would it be a scam to: 1/GET $$$ NOW or 2/GET $$$ LATER I know a group that dropped over $4000 on a recent festival where they knew they were dropping that money with no payment for themselves and no future income was thought on.... I assume there is actually more than one type of promoter in this world.... dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 17:41:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA22534; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:41:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA22520; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:41:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id RAA03602; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:40:57 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id RAA26283; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:40:56 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:40:55 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: ---SOBER RAVING, YOU CAN DO IT----- To: _LiQuiD_ cc: czefir@sprynet.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Just some comments here; On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, _LiQuiD_ wrote: > * Firstly and most importantly is **BAD-ASS** music (without i almost > always die) !!!!!!!!!!YES!!!!!!!!! > * Then Id say people and their vibes are number two... Isn't it funny though that the vibe is sometimes (if not always) affected by the non-sober folks? Both in healthy and unhealthy ways. > * ok, theres 'Vivarin' & NoDoze, they're great for some mild tweaking, > haha, just kidding, but they DO keep you 'UP'. Then again they > are very hard on your stomache, so never take too much. It isnt > something you should take for a long time... theres other the ways! Sorry but I don't consider these "non-drugs" just because they are legal. If anyone does you should suspect that your brain has been washed. > > * now theres 'herbal power' stuff. i have recently begun experiment > ing with this and it's great! a medium sized bottle of red ginseng > right before a party TOTALLY energized me! im looking further > into other herbal 'upers'. Same point here. These are drug bearing plants. Which then I guess leads us to the chemical vs. "natrual" drug debate. If you talk to most homepaths and nutrtionists they will tell you that ANY stimulant is essientially not "good" for you. > SOMETHING NOT TO TRY: MaHuang > Its as addictive as speed, and quite harmful. DONT GO THERE :! Ryan, I think your intentions are good here but you can't spaek for everyone. Each bio-system is unique and can potentially have very different reactions then what you (and others) have experienced. The best bet (IMO) is to learn to listen to your own body rather than taking the advice of others (ravers, doctors, whomever) blindly. > * and then there are many *smart* things to do. > - resting before partying > - eating high protein food, some good carbos too! > - like someone said before, lots of water & juice (ESSENTIAL) > - take something to munch on. i remember once when i took a couple > of pb&j sandwiches, and i ate them when i tought i was pooped. > those little badboys perked me up like mad! Try it! These methods have worked really well for me also. Don't forget them bannanas!! > > * and finally there are "energy boosters" that are available. i dont > know much about the products that are out there, like at GNC, but > i sell nutritional products that are sponsored by the US Olympic > Licensee comitee, and about 20 olympic atheletes, not to mention > ive tried their energy booster, its great! cheaper than a hit > of E, better for you than "psuedo-amphedamines", and works well. > Do you think you could send me an ingrediants list please? I am very curious as to what causes the energy boost. peas, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namasate) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ( ( We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ) ) ( ( ) ) (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ( (__________________________________________________________________________) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 17:42:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA22658; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:42:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA22644; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id UAA07714; Mon, 02 Dec 1996 20:39:17 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: UN-COOL WORLD PRODUCTIONS Message-ID: <19961202.173403.10862.3.plur@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,8-13 From: plur@juno.com (n/a n/a) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 20:39:17 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Cool World is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT a Rave Production. They are are a PARTY Production. They may talk about raves and Peac and all that, but I do not recomend going to any Cool World PARTY (I emphasize the party part) unless you enjoy, getting pushed, shoved, stepped on, talked down to, getting a fist full of bad vibes thrown at you, spit on, maybe even raped, you bag stolen, them taking away your glitter, highlighter, water, and anything else that makes a rave not a rave, because Cool World doesn't through raves they throw parties. And anyone who saids Otherwise I have onE thing to say to them. PLURF Peace, Love, Unity, Respect, Fuck You! -Paul P.S. Good Vibes and Love To All! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 17:43:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA22762; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:43:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from guilder.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA22750; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:43:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by guilder.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.8.1) id RAA14280; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:42:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:42:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.16.19961202173438.0b9f7f36@peseta.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: ez056875@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (16) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Matthew Wietzke Subject: does anybody know? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk does anyone know how to get off of SD raves? I would ask down there but don't have the mailing address to the list. Matthew Wietzke mswietzke@ucdavis.edu, xpress@bigfoot.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 17:50:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA23179; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:50:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA23175; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:50:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id RAA05230; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:49:55 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id RAA27586; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:49:54 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 17:49:53 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E To: "-=]madame mercury[=-" cc: presumed , Ran , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, -=]madame mercury[=- wrote: > > > > -=]madame mercury[=-, mhg@cats.ucsc.edu wrote... > > > This was a pretty shittey post. I'm sorry to see that you think > > > E is the only way to have fun. At least now I know where people > > > like Leeza (and her crew) get the idea that raving is only about > > > DRUGS!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > I went sober with all my friends and we had lots of fun. I'm > > > sorry to see that you feel the need to be so dependent on E > > > to have a good time :( > > > > I think you're misinterpreting the post. > > Drugs are not the only way to have fun. Drugs are the only way to have > > fun at a party in a shitty space filled with a bunch of A***** wearing > > gangstas :) > For your information, in that post it was stated that the only > way anyone was going to have phun was if they took some drugs. > I'm sorry to see your so dependent on drugs to depict your > feelings for a certain space in the time of your now > getting shorter (compliments of these wonderful drugs) life. This is pretty funny knowing of ARYCK's usual anti-drug position. I took his post to mean that the party sucked so bad that you would only enjoy it if completly gonzoed on whatever. As I recall ARYCK usually decries the anti-realness of E. And a lot of his posts are tongue-in-cheek. > > And about the "Adidas wearing ganstas" GET OFF IT hmmm, a bit sensitive and insecure maybe? > 1) I didn't harrass anyone Except here at SFraves whenever someone posts something you don't like. You tend to sound a bit shrill rather than trying to discuss issues. (IMO) > 6) and SM:)ED a lot It would be nice to see that smile more often. peace, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namasate) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ( ( We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ) ) ( ( ) ) (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ( (__________________________________________________________________________) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 18:19:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA25536; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:19:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from typhoon.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA25528; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:19:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dlb@localhost) by typhoon.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA03362; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:19:43 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:19:37 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bayer X-Sender: dlb@typhoon.Berkeley.EDU To: Ari Newman cc: sfRaves Subject: Re: Why you Rave In-Reply-To: <329FADD6.4A1B@colorado.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Why do I rave? Over time, the reason has changed as much as I have changed. Originally, it was the first really open environment I had found where I didn't feel pressured to act a certain way and a place where what I did spoke for itself and wasn't overanalysised. E in that time was a tool I used to dig into that jar in the back of my head that made me a horrible person and work through those things - either realizing that the things were not so bad or that they really were, but I would look at how bad they made me feel, feel how heavy that imprint was, and realize what was so bad about it and then be able to "correct" my actions before I get into a situation or made a decision that I would regret later. Also, I got over the a of making mistakes that I had had, and realized that they were inevitable. In essence, I moved from looking at things as "why does this always happen to me" to "ooops, I fucked up, I will avoid that in the future". Then I moved to Stirling, Scotland for a while. Along with sorting a bunch of shit out there, I found something I had never witnessed in SF. Festis and Gabber! Somewhere along the line, raving transformed from what I guess people would call a healing experience to to an experience of the primitive energies that run through people (well, that's my take on it). Once I had gotten to point where I was comfortable with myself, raves nicely enough transformed into odd-fests where we pushed something further and further. Imagine the grass covered earth shaded by conifers, fires burning in little camps spotting the forst (this is scotland, you can have fires on the ground and not have to worry about the whole forest going up), fire jugglers, fire blowers, people painted blue, a procession between the sound systems lead by a piper, a snare drummer, and a bass drum... While this was all very silly, it was very tribal in a way that I cannot explain. These raves were more about taking the energy that gets funneled into aggression, competetiveness, or depression and redirecting it to a dance to fast music that pounds into one (not all gabber comes from LA or includes samples telling one to fuck off or whatever, alot of it is just fast with hard kick drums, and dark). E was something I might do because I liked my skin being tingly or I might want to go up one of the hills and chat with people - I like the way a little mdma can make everything have a little more weight... It was not necessary linked with raves. Back in SF, I would like to see parties that have that same edge, where people push as hard as in Scotland at Sativa. But maybe that has something to do with the weather ;) dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 18:21:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA25711; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:21:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA25699; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:21:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA20542 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA849579995; Mon, 02 Dec 96 18:12:44 pst Date: Mon, 02 Dec 96 18:12:44 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9611028495.AA849579995@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: San Jose Stylee Lunch... 12-4-96 (BSP) Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk What up what up what up boy-eee, anybody up for the old skool noon time grooves? South Bay Cru presents... *************************************************************************** Gettin PHAT!!! *************************************************************************** We're gonna be chillin at grub at noon on Wednesday. We're going back to where it all started, the mackinest joint, Pedro's. The food is the shit, and the shit is dope (did I mention the dope is phat?)!!! Alright, here's the 411: Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday... 12/4/96 @ NOON @ PEDRO's (or as we affectionately call it... PERROS)... Reservations made for SFRaves --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 101 S to Great America Pkwy / Bowers exit Turn left and go over highway. About the second light down there will be a Marriot on the right. Turn right at that light. (I think it is Mission College or something like that.) Second light after that is Freedom. Turn right. Its down a ways on the right. 101 N to Great America Pkwy /Bowers exit Turn right (don't go over highway.) The rest of the directions are the same. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Remember: As usual with the South Bay Cru, No 40ozs, knives, guns, or bad guyz permitted. Brought to you by: TimOTronic Prod, AllJayCreations, &-E, BrankaFX, Larr-E and the rest of the South Bay Cru. Ambient soundscape by MUZAK Inc. Lighting by PeeGee & E. Soundsystem by Realistic. Info Lines: 408-435-5259 800-800-9554 x5259 415-555-1212 510-867-5309 Ladies free. Free water. Well, everybody gets in free. You have to pay for your food and tip though... Peace Out! &-E Prepare to be impressed... We keep the ol skool vibE cuz South Bay Cru is da BOMB!!!!!!!!!!!!! ********************************************************************** Disclaimer- READ ME IF YOU'RE PISSED OFF BY THE ABOVE ********************************************************************** Anybody offended by the above, I'd be happy to accept recommendations on how to better deal with keeping a boring lunch announcement interesting (you can never tell what's offensive anymore). All the talk about certain manners of dress and massives and MTV and mounting commercialism has really gotten to me (both sides of the argument have...), so I thought it would be fun to have a massive-stylee announcement for a lunch. Everybody is invited, I love you all, even if your clothes do cost more than my car. Okay? Whoever you are, be that person and stay real!!! Have a great week!!! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 18:24:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA25989; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA25976; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:24:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from greg (sjx-ca18-10.ix.netcom.com [199.35.223.170]) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA12928 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:23:29 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961202180513.006a7708@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: ascend@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 18:05:15 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Harmony!!! Subject: Room 4 rent in Cupertino Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello, I just thought I would post this to the list to see if there was any interest... There will be a room opening up in my house most likely on Jan 1st - 5th. It is a four bedroom house with two full bathrooms. Rent goes for $295/mo. You would share the electric and water with three very easy going cool roomies! We are looking for a laid back, super cool person to take over one room. Please respond personally if you are interested... Thanks Peace, love and harmony to all!!! Greg =) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 18:24:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA26033; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:24:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuba.aix.calpoly.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA26028; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:24:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by tuba.aix.calpoly.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA74488; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:04:02 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:04:01 -0800 (PST) From: Austin Woffington To: I_wanna_Dance! Subject: Be Here Now!! and Tribal Funk Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well I had a busy saturday evening. I went to 2 parties that night and I kept going from Be Here Now to Tribal Funk and then back again. I am so worn out and it's monday. I'd have to say that Be Here Now was the better party. Though i love hearing Utopia, Garth, Dan and Tony, the BHN rooms were more fun for me. I got to HOME around 11 and wow the place is huge. I've been to Homebase many times but never when they had all the rooms open. It was so crowded around 11 - 1 it was unreal. Esp in the hallways. I'd have to say the lasers in the main room were mind melting. Fantastic display of colors and patterns and with the sheets up in the middle it produced a better '3d' effect. Too many lights though. The big yellow light in the main room and all the "club" style intela lights in the Funk room were too much. Favorite dj's - Hyperactive was sick! And when Dan went on I could choose between them. Dan's set was more hardcore than I've ever heard but I got down with a few good dancers for a good half hour before the heat got to me. Mark Farina was good but I wanted to hear faster beats so I stayed in the small back room. I heard some sick euro-techno back there but I never got the name of any of the djs. I even spent some time dancing to jungle with Abstract. I think I'm gonna pick up his tape. :) DRC got me movin' most of her set. i just got 1 of her tapes the other day and I love the crazy hard edge she has in her sets. And then there was Peter Lazonby (sp?) UK. He was calm, collected, focused, and played what seemed to be a well thought out set. Slow and mellow at first to a bumpin' techno groove that had me still moving at the end of the night. The vibe wasn't there for me in the beginning. Negative and uninviting. But as the night progressed I found the finer aspects of the party and stuck with my instincts. I had a great time. Many people did in their own way. Too bad about the taging; the rave gunk got the best of my cloths; and there still is a free water shortage at big parties. I wish I would have known when and were Jonah sharp, Dutch, Concious Labs, and Phil Smart were playing. I wanted to check them but don't think I did. I would love it if promoters would provide a play list with you ticket so you would know when and were a performer was spinning. Besides WOM how do you expect to know when your favorite dj will be playing? My ESP doesn't work as well as most peoples' I guess. Bye for now - off to study for finals Hope everyone's Thanksgiving went well! PLUR, Austin ------------------( ( ( ((0)) ) ) )----------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 18:25:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA26115; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:25:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from chip.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA26107; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:25:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by chip.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.7.3) id SAA06972; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:25:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:25:20 -0800 (PST) From: Uncle Noah X-Sender: ez031733@chip.ucdavis.edu To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: more babbling from your Uncle Noah (semiRR) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk first: a couple of weeks ago a friend came down to Santa Ana and visited for a few days. He left me with a book called "Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah". Sadly, I haven't had time to read it until my lunch hour today. Now, at the Cabin, I found myself really tripping out on one spoken word portion in the ambient stuff, and low and behold, reading through this book, I find the same passages. Strange... second: I have an interview for a position at Golden Gate University on Thursday afternoon. So what does that mean? Weekend in the city!! What's the party of choice for this weekend? It sure would be nice to spread some happiness with you all while I have the chance!! :) third: I hope everyone is having a nice start to their week and that everything is bright and happy all around each and every one of you! :) PLUR dBP dBP dBBBBb dBBBP dBP dBBBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBP dBP_dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBBBBP dBP dBP dBBBBP dBBBBP dBBBBP dBBBBb dBBBBP dBBBBBb dBP dBP dBP dBP.BP BB dBP dBP dBP.BP dBP BB dBBBBBP dBP dBP dBP.BP dBP BB dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBBBP dBBBBBBB dBP dBP ********napodaca@ucdavis.edu************************************************** "Uncle" Noah Apodaca - UCDavis Graduate, DJ, Electronic Musician From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 18:42:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA27686; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:42:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA27681; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:42:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjx-ca77-62.ix.netcom.com (rlunatic@sjx-ca77-62.ix.netcom.com [205.186.122.254]) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA13863; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:41:30 -0800 Message-ID: <32A3A370.D81@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 19:50:08 -0800 From: Adam X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "-=]madame mercury[=-" CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Gangstas!!!!! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk -=]madame mercury[=- wrote: > > And about the "Adidas wearing ganstas" GET OFF IT > I wore all Adidas down to my sports bra and socks and am I a gangsta? > 1) I didn't harrass anyone > 2) sold no drugs > 3) didn't steal anything from anyone > 4) had lots of phun dancing with my SOBER friends > 5) gave lots of hugs > 6) and SM:)ED a lot > > ...no I am NOT!!!!! > Speak for yourself.. I'm a gangstar! =)~ Hehe.. Adam "Watch out man, I'll beam you with my glowsticks!" >=/ <--- pretty hardcore huh? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 18:54:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA28534; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:54:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA28530; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:54:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv3.apple.com (A17-128-100-121.apple.com [17.128.100.121]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA27364 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:53:40 -0800 Received: from [17.221.21.116] (greeja.apple.com [17.221.21.116]) by scv3.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26746 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:55:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199612030255.SAA26746@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Re: UN-COOL WORLD PRODUCTIONS Date: Mon, 2 Dec 96 18:57:05 -0000 x-sender: green2@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Jason Green To: "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk All I have to say regarding this is FUCK YEAH!!! TELL IT LIKE IT IS!!! >Cool World is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT a Rave Production. >They are are a PARTY Production. They may talk about raves and Peac and >all that, but I do not recomend going to any Cool World PARTY (I >emphasize the party part) unless you enjoy, getting pushed, shoved, >stepped on, talked down to, getting a fist full of bad vibes thrown at >you, spit on, maybe even raped, you bag stolen, them taking away your >glitter, highlighter, water, and anything else that makes a rave not a >rave, because Cool World doesn't through raves they throw parties. And >anyone who saids Otherwise I have onE thing to say to them. I I I -----------------------------------I (poor attempt at ASCI diagram) AGAIN!! CALLING IT, RIGHT ON THE NAIL!!! You sir, are an intelligent, conscious human being with some actual smarts in your head! Very nice to see!! Now if everyone could just think like this, Cool World could be a purely GANGSTA party (it's true intention), and we would all be happy! The gangstas could go to thier party, and people without guns could go to others!! WOO HOO!! Happy trails... _jason_ P.S. And I too will tell any who say otherwise onE thing... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 18:58:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA28945; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:58:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA28927; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:58:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjx-ca77-62.ix.netcom.com (rlunatic@sjx-ca77-62.ix.netcom.com [205.186.122.254]) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA14874 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:58:13 -0800 Message-ID: <32A3A6B3.6F28@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 20:04:03 -0800 From: Adam X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: UN-COOL WORLD PRODUCTIONS References: <19961202.173403.10862.3.plur@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk n/a n/a wrote: > > PLURF > Peace, Love, Unity, Respect, Fuck You! > -Paul > Uhhh... I think that was uncalled for.. =)~ Me. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 19:04:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA29589; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:04:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA29584; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA27392; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:04:24 -0800 Received: from eon.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA11606; Mon, 2 Dec 96 19:04:22 PST From: eric@nit.AirTouch.COM (Eric Pederson) Message-Id: <9612030304.AA11606@nit.AirTouch.COM> Subject: Re: All this adidas stuff(Funny, i think) To: Jondabomb@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:04:22 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <961202142236_1717993534@emout15.mail.aol.com> from "Jondabomb@aol.com" at Dec 2, 96 02:23:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk true story - i was eating lunch at guadalahara grill in concord last weekend (great food) and at the table next to me this lady was telling her friend what her daughter wanted for christmas. "she doesn't care as long as it's adidas or fila". the irony was lost on the mom who didn't grow up during the breakdancin 80s. Jondabomb@aol.com writes... > Well at leat nobody is making fun of us Concord people sportin are Tommy > hilfigga' and Fila, G! > Yeah foolieos betta not come to concord cause Jondabomb gonna beat dat ass > and leave a Nike footprint on your butt, cept it won't say NIKE it will say > EKIN flipped over cause when you impress something it comes out backwards in > stuff... -e From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 19:09:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA00183; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:09:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mom.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA00173; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:09:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from stuff (webe-13.ppp.hooked.net [206.80.9.13]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA16320; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:09:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612030309.TAA16320@mom.hooked.net> From: "Mr nStuff" To: "_LiQuiD_" Cc: Subject: Re: ---SOBER RAVIN... [Herbal info]---- Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:11:45 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well met _LiQuiD_ I totally agree with you! ***BAD-ASS** music Must come first. if the music is right. Nothing can stop you. It's strange. Last night, I was dancing at my friend Wayne's house, ofcourse, to BAD-ASS music. And when we went outside to fire it up, Wayne says to me "You know Jeff. See if they would of played more bad-ass music like that last night. You would of been dancing like you were just now. Then you wouldn't be tripping off all that negative shit people were filling you with all night" The music defonetly gives you more energy than any drug. I think I may be of service in the herbal department though.. =]:.. Hey! I didn't say I was a sober ravEr or nothing! You can get yourself a bottle of Rip Fuel at any GNC store. That will Zoom you for a few good Dj sets or so. I took two my first time, and... Weeeeee......... Weight trainers take it before working out. But now. There is a new bottle on that shelf. Also GNC. It's called Thermadreen (Not sure of the spelling. Just ask for ther-ma-dreen. Energy sup). This will defonetely get yea going! But I think it works with body fat or something though, becouse I don't really get off much on it. But Wayne (He works out, and stays in shape) He can cut down a full grown pine tree in one day when he takes off on that stuff. And my friend Tim (He is huge, and full of body fat. He is always on the stuff) He can make a ravE dance circle, 20 yards wide in 6.4 seconds! The only place Tim ever gets lonely is in the moshing pit at a Verbal Abuse concert. But don't take my word for it. If you want to try something legal, that don't clog up your head. Go down to GNC. Hope you like um. Jeff From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 19:46:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA03358; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:46:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA03349; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:46:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:46:43 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Behlendorf To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: space available (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Don't respond to me, please, respond to Erin. Thanks. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 13:45:48 -0800 (PST) From: ERIN JAMES KRASOVICH To: Brian@Hyperreal.com Subject: space available Brian we were wondering if you could possibly post this to sfraves? My friend Pascal has a live work space available in Jack London Square and it will be available very soon. Thank you! Live work space available Jack London Square, 1000 squ ft. Quiet, techno friendly neighborhood dishwasher, garbage disposal, full bath, wood floors. lots of light, 25 foot ceilings skylight, excellent acoustics. $900 /mo 510-430-3779 leave message From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 19:49:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA03547; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:49:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA03542; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:49:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id TAA25644; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:49:10 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id TAA14276; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:49:10 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:49:10 -0800 (PST) From: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E To: ess kay three cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <31B01D10.3041@vax.sonoma.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I give you much props on your post!!!!! I couldn't agree w/ you more. So where were you and what were you wearing on Sat.? I'd love to meet you ;) You might have seen me - 5'7" - brown hair w/ 3 bleached stripes thru bangs - neon orange whistle around neck - white v-neck - B & W Adidas pants - Adidas shoes (w/ blue stripes) - little bright blue back pack w/ red flasher on it - danced my ass off during Mark Fiana's(?????) set (smaller room of TF) - was w/ tall white boy (Liquid) and an Asian (Alan) guy my hight all night MHg PS Go to X-Files on Fri. so we can all meet. I'd love to meet a breaker girl. Don't know ANY :( On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, ess kay three wrote: > So I guess that everyone who wears Adidas is a gangsta. > And does alot of drugs. > And disses people who don't seem to be cool enough. > Or something. > So does that mean that I'm a gangsta when I decide to wear an Adidas > jacket or shirt? And all my H20 polo player and swimmer friends who wear > the Adidas sandals or have Adidas shit, they're all druggie gangstas > too? > > Clothes don't make the person, the *person* does. At the risk of quoting > an increasingly pathetic advertisement, as the Sprite commercial goes, > "Image is nothing, thirst is everything, obey your thirst." What people > look like or dress like is NOTHING. > I've been in a "shitty space filled with a bunch of "A***** wearin > gangstas" (and OTHER rude types) and it isn't drugs that can save your > mood, it's your attitude. I mean you can be on DRUGS in a bad scene and > have an even WORSE time. It's all in how you approach the whole night. > If you go into a huge place with bad vibes you can say (soberly *or* > high) "this sucks, I'm gonna have a shitty time, this fucking sucks! I'm > gonna pop a few pills/tabs" and bitch and moan about it all night and > have a bad time, or you can say "yea, the vibe's pretty nasty here, but > i think i can pretty much ignore it and appreciate the music and > whatever positive people there are around me" and have a not-so-bad if > not great time. I heard alot of people saying "yea the vibe was shitty > at _be here now_ but i had a GREAT time." It's all in the attitude, it's > not in the drug. Raving *can* be appreciated sober. Hell some of the > most dedicated ravers I know are straightedge! > > > So if the vibe isn't all that great, try to focus on the music. And if > you're hungry for an rEfrEshmEnt, go for it. But if you're taking it to > avoid the bad vibes, you might end up having a worse time than you would > have if you were sober. I kinda know from experience (can we say ground > zero?). It's a personal choice. Stop slammin Adidas, i, and many others > have been wearing it since they were kiddies, or since they started a > sport, or just because they think it's a pretty dope label. I mean come > on, it's a timeless classic. I love it.. > But then, that's just me... > > Smiles.. > LAra > -- > (sk3) > [ J U N G L I S T ] > . . . wishing on a star . . . > ___________ ___________ | _____ | | _____ | | [_____] | -={ RaVe On }=- | [_____] | | __ | | __ | | (__) | | (__) | ^ | | | | ^ \ | _____ | ^ ^ | _____ |/ <-- | / \ | / \ | / \ |--> <--^-- | | | | ---* 0 *---| | | | --^--> <-- | | (_) | | \ /-\ /| | (_) | |--> / | | | |_______==___==_______| | | |\ * | \_____/ | | \_____/ | * |___________|____|_____|_____|____|___________| \ o / \ / |__ o _ | ___\o | o/ o/__ /\ / \ /) | /o\ / ) | (\ / | o ) O/ < \ /\- -| /\O/ _/\ /\ /|_ \\ / / / / // ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- ) ______ ___ _________ ) ( ___ |/ /______ _______ /______ ________ ___ _____ ( ) __ /|_/ / _ __ `/_ __ / _ __ `/__ __ `__ \_ _ \ ) ( _ / / / / /_/ / / /_/ / / /_/ / _ / / / / // __/ ) ) /_/ /_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___/ ) ( ( ) ______ ___ mhg@cats.ucsc.edu ) ( ___ |/ /_____ ___________________ _______________ __( ) __ /|_/ / _ _ \__ ___/_ ___/_ / / /__ ___/__ / / /) ( _ / / / / __/_ / / /__ / /_/ / _ / _ /_/ / ( ) /_/ /_/ \___/ /_/ \___/ \__,_/ /_/ _\__, / ) ( /____/ ( ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 19:51:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA03740; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:51:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout20.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA03725; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:51:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout20.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA29651; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:50:55 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:50:55 -0500 Message-ID: <961202225037_706993673@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: plur@juno.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: UN-COOL WORLD PRODUCTIONS Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-12-02 20:46:20 EST, you write: << Cool World is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT a Rave Production. They are are a PARTY Production. They may talk about raves and Peac and all that, but I do not recomend going to any Cool World PARTY (I emphasize the party part) unless you enjoy, getting pushed, shoved, stepped on, talked down to, getting a fist full of bad vibes thrown at you, spit on, maybe even raped, you bag stolen, them taking away your glitter, highlighter, water, and anything else that makes a rave not a rave, because Cool World doesn't through raves they throw parties. And anyone who saids Otherwise I have onE thing to say to them. PLURF Peace, Love, Unity, Respect, Fuck You! -Paul P.S. Good Vibes and Love To All! >> Dude, dont spread shit like that around! Rape, Fuck you. thats not cool.( no pun intended) I have never gone to one of their big productions, but I can assure that what you say is not true. This happenes every time,. people diss them people diss Martin, people diss people for clothes whatever.... nobody can change that, but dont say harsh words when you can't back them up with the truth. Peace, Jonathan P.S. how can you even expect people to take you seriously with PLURF Peace, Love, Unity, respect, and Fuck you??? You are confused my friend. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 19:53:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA03940; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:53:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA03932; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id TAA26371; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:53:20 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id TAA14662; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:53:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:53:19 -0800 (PST) From: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Subject: Re: All this adidas stuff(Funny, i think) To: Jondabomb@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <961202142236_1717993534@emout15.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk He, he....ha, ha. Good post...nuthin' like comic relief....you freak! MHg On Mon, 2 Dec 1996 Jondabomb@aol.com wrote: > Well at leat nobody is making fun of us Concord people sportin are Tommy > hilfigga' and Fila, G! > Yeah foolieos betta not come to concord cause Jondabomb gonna beat dat ass > and leave a Nike footprint on your butt, cept it won't say NIKE it will say > EKIN flipped over cause when you impress something it comes out backwards in > stuff... > > Nough said! :) no wait i like this one better = ) > > Jonathan > the g, in Concord WAYNE BETTER KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT! > ___________ ___________ | _____ | | _____ | | [_____] | -={ RaVe On }=- | [_____] | | __ | | __ | | (__) | | (__) | ^ | | | | ^ \ | _____ | ^ ^ | _____ |/ <-- | / \ | / \ | / \ |--> <--^-- | | | | ---* 0 *---| | | | --^--> <-- | | (_) | | \ /-\ /| | (_) | |--> / | | | |_______==___==_______| | | |\ * | \_____/ | | \_____/ | * |___________|____|_____|_____|____|___________| \ o / \ / |__ o _ | ___\o | o/ o/__ /\ / \ /) | /o\ / ) | (\ / | o ) O/ < \ /\- -| /\O/ _/\ /\ /|_ \\ / / / / // ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- ) ______ ___ _________ ) ( ___ |/ /______ _______ /______ ________ ___ _____ ( ) __ /|_/ / _ __ `/_ __ / _ __ `/__ __ `__ \_ _ \ ) ( _ / / / / /_/ / / /_/ / / /_/ / _ / / / / // __/ ) ) /_/ /_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___/ ) ( ( ) ______ ___ mhg@cats.ucsc.edu ) ( ___ |/ /_____ ___________________ _______________ __( ) __ /|_/ / _ _ \__ ___/_ ___/_ / / /__ ___/__ / / /) ( _ / / / / __/_ / / /__ / /_/ / _ / _ /_/ / ( ) /_/ /_/ \___/ /_/ \___/ \__,_/ /_/ _\__, / ) ( /____/ ( ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 19:55:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA04153; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:55:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA04142; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:55:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.134.228.103] (ppp103-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.103]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id TAA27856; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:53:06 -0800 X-Sender: sddpw@pop.sirius.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:57:05 -0800 To: newmana@colorado.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com From: sddpw@sirius.com (Shimako-Dominguez Department of Public Works) Subject: Re: Why you Rave Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Yes, I'd love to read this paper. Why I rave, personally, is a multi-level question, as you are well aware. To me the rave scene [and also the underground club scene which is inextricably entwined (I know I will get flamed for that)] is about art. The DJs, the lighting designers, the flyers and, above all, the people, are all individual folk artists who come together to make this modern performance piece. I love to go to an event early and watch the whole thing go by. As the whole energy picks up and peaks and dies down. It is such an AWESOME spectacle, which I feel is unparalled in our modern culture. When a good event comes together and "pops", meaning the music and people and vibe reach that pitch that is tangible and indescribable all at the same time, but you know when it is happening, these are truly epiphinaic moments for me when I gain insight into myself and my relation to the universe. This is the truly underapreciated side of the scene and what I love about it most. But also, I come for the sense of fun, elation, escape. To be someone I am not during the rest of the week. I lose a lot of inhibitions when I am out dancing and having fun. I have no hesitation going up to people and just starting conversations [with or without E :)]. I love creating costumes and seeing other creative people in strange, wonderful, frightening, and/or cool get-ups. And then there is just plain old dancing. That innate human desire to fling your body about to the beat of drums and melodic strains. What a great stress releiver!! that's a start, at least. good luck on your paper >Hey all, >I'd like to ask a favor of my fellow ravers..... >I'm doing a paper on raving and E. Why people rave, why they take e, and >why there is such a close connection between taking e and raving. >Although I have textbook sources and enough personal experience to write >this paper, I am interested in hearing/reading other people's personal >insights also. Everyone out there articulates their feelings >differently and I'd like to see what a few different perspectives are. >Of course, total anonimity can be garanteed if so requested. I'd be >willing to send anyone a copy of my paper when I'm done if so >interested. Cheers! >-- >Ari Newman >newmana@colorado.edu >http://beagle.colorado.edu/~newmana/Home.html > >"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 19:58:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA04327; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:58:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mom.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA04314; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:57:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from stuff (sfmax1-67.ppp.wenet.net [206.80.13.67]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25615; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:57:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612030357.TAA25615@mom.hooked.net> From: "Mr nStuff" To: , Subject: Shitty p... --> sober rav... [reply] Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 19:58:07 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Your post defonently opens some eyes, I am sure. But if I am going to go ride my bike in the park to "have a great time" and enjoy things around me. And what it means to me, to be alive. If somebody in that park keeps throwing sticks in my spokes. It don't matter how I approched my day. I will be pissed. And I don't concider a negative pissed off attitude, a good time. Anyone thats thinks that Addidas clothing is a gangsta thing. You need to either goto LA, or stop admiring that all beatin up red tagged jail bird gangsta, in that movie COLORS. Addidas was a Break Dancing thing first off. I had just about every color addidas sweat jacket on the market in 1983. My purple one was my favorite. Hello. Get a clue. Gangsta's wear Raiders jackets, and tatoo there names on the back of there necks. Duh... }:\ And I wouldn't blame anyone for getting sick of my complaints. But people that whine about the mear apperance of a fellow ravEr. You ain't seen nothing! You ever been (by a total stranger to you), had rumors spread about you? Been called an asshole? Or a loser, tweek, or dick? How about "Hey man. Why don't you get out of our scene"? at a ravE!! By friendly smiling ravEr people... "Yea right!" And these are people I have never talked to! The only thing they could possibly know about me.... Is that I am not like them. I am different..... Get that. The only person shastized for being different at a ravE. Sad, sad, sad. But! I still go smiling, and in love with everyone around me. Becouse I can feel how forgiving ravErs can be. And nobody is at fualt here. People don't feel comfertable around people they don't understand. I know if each and everyone of them, knew how I was inside. If I didn't have so much walls blocking there path to understanding. They would all turn around, and welcome me for who I am. Seriously! Just thought I would take this opportunity to vent. =]:.. Jeff ---------- : From: ess kay three : To: sfraves@hyperreal.com : Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E : Date: Saturday, June 01, 1996 2:36 AM : : So I guess that everyone who wears Adidas is a gangsta. : And does alot of drugs. : And disses people who don't seem to be cool enough. : Or something. : So does that mean that I'm a gangsta when I decide to wear an Adidas : jacket or shirt? And all my H20 polo player and swimmer friends who wear : the Adidas sandals or have Adidas shit, they're all druggie gangstas : too? : : Clothes don't make the person, the *person* does. At the risk of quoting : an increasingly pathetic advertisement, as the Sprite commercial goes, : "Image is nothing, thirst is everything, obey your thirst." What people : look like or dress like is NOTHING. : I've been in a "shitty space filled with a bunch of "A***** wearin : gangstas" (and OTHER rude types) and it isn't drugs that can save your : mood, it's your attitude. I mean you can be on DRUGS in a bad scene and : have an even WORSE time. It's all in how you approach the whole night. : If you go into a huge place with bad vibes you can say (soberly *or* : high) "this sucks, I'm gonna have a shitty time, this fucking sucks! I'm : gonna pop a few pills/tabs" and bitch and moan about it all night and : have a bad time, or you can say "yea, the vibe's pretty nasty here, but : i think i can pretty much ignore it and appreciate the music and : whatever positive people there are around me" and have a not-so-bad if : not great time. I heard alot of people saying "yea the vibe was shitty : at _be here now_ but i had a GREAT time." It's all in the attitude, it's : not in the drug. Raving *can* be appreciated sober. Hell some of the : most dedicated ravers I know are straightedge! : : : So if the vibe isn't all that great, try to focus on the music. And if : you're hungry for an rEfrEshmEnt, go for it. But if you're taking it to : avoid the bad vibes, you might end up having a worse time than you would : have if you were sober. I kinda know from experience (can we say ground : zero?). It's a personal choice. Stop slammin Adidas, i, and many others : have been wearing it since they were kiddies, or since they started a : sport, or just because they think it's a pretty dope label. I mean come : on, it's a timeless classic. I love it.. : But then, that's just me... : : Smiles.. : LAra : -- : (sk3) : [ J U N G L I S T ] : . . . wishing on a star . . . From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 20:05:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA04781; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:05:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA04772; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id UAA28201; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:04:54 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id UAA16021; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:04:54 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:04:53 -0800 (PST) From: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Subject: shall we blast each other? -> get it straight first To: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961202175505.006df18c@best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ATTENTION ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For the book, I was simply telling that person that their PHISH stuff shouldn't be posted on sfRAVES w/out NRR... just like all the other people screamed @ me too when I asked a question not rave related. There NEVER would have a been a problem if people would just post Rave Related stuff on SFRAVES. So please just relax, and lets drop this STOOPID phish thing. I hate phish!!!!! Not to mention, living in S.C. w/ 90% of the phish followers does get to ones TECHNO craving heart. MHg PS feel the vibe of matthew d. p. k. lanier > b)keep going and successfully make it into everone's kill file (you're in > many, already!), or c)go away ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, matthew d. p. k. lanier wrote: > hello all- > > very rarely do i publicly blast someone, but this message made me sick: > > > > I think you're quite confused....your giving raves/raving a > > bad name comparing it to a PHISH concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > What does PHISH have to do with raving anyway???? > > NOTHING!!!!!!! So don't post it here w/out NRR! > > > > MHg > > madame mercury, this message was entirely innapropriate. > > you have no right to tell someone else that their definition of raving is > wrong. we each have our own definitions, and if you don't agree, either > a)accept that other people have their own definitions and co-exist happily, > b)keep going and successfully make it into everone's kill file (you're in > many, already!), or c)go away. > > i am making this message public, not as a public blast of madame mercury (i > could more easily do that privately where my language would not be so > checked) but as a message to all: (and this is matt preaching) > > YOUR DEFINITION OF RAVING IS PROBABLY DIFFERENT FROM EVERYBODY ELSES! WE > CAN EITHER BLAST EACH OTHER FOR THEIR DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS, OR WE CAN > ACCEPT THEIR DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS AND CO-EXIST PEACEFULLY! > > thank you. madame mercury, i appologize for the public confrontation, but i > was so struck by your message that i had to respond. no offense meant to > your personally, just your message. > > love to you all, goddamnit! > > love- > > matt > matthew d. p. k. lanier > professional hugger and empath > > 415-752-3218 > > E-mail mailto:mdpkl@best.com > pager mailto:lanima00@usfca.edu (up to 240 characters) > > > _______ > / \ > / o o \ > | ^ | > | | > ___ \ \_/ / ___ > __(___\ \__ __/ /___)__ > (______ \________\ /_________/ ______) > (_______ ____________________ _______) > (______ / \ ______) > (_____/ \_____) > > ___________ ___________ | _____ | | _____ | | [_____] | -={ RaVe On }=- | [_____] | | __ | | __ | | (__) | | (__) | ^ | | | | ^ \ | _____ | ^ ^ | _____ |/ <-- | / \ | / \ | / \ |--> <--^-- | | | | ---* 0 *---| | | | --^--> <-- | | (_) | | \ /-\ /| | (_) | |--> / | | | |_______==___==_______| | | |\ * | \_____/ | | \_____/ | * |___________|____|_____|_____|____|___________| \ o / \ / |__ o _ | ___\o | o/ o/__ /\ / \ /) | /o\ / ) | (\ / | o ) O/ < \ /\- -| /\O/ _/\ /\ /|_ \\ / / / / // ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- ) ______ ___ _________ ) ( ___ |/ /______ _______ /______ ________ ___ _____ ( ) __ /|_/ / _ __ `/_ __ / _ __ `/__ __ `__ \_ _ \ ) ( _ / / / / /_/ / / /_/ / / /_/ / _ / / / / // __/ ) ) /_/ /_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___/ ) ( ( ) ______ ___ mhg@cats.ucsc.edu ) ( ___ |/ /_____ ___________________ _______________ __( ) __ /|_/ / _ _ \__ ___/_ ___/_ / / /__ ___/__ / / /) ( _ / / / / __/_ / / /__ / /_/ / _ / _ /_/ / ( ) /_/ /_/ \___/ /_/ \___/ \__,_/ /_/ _\__, / ) ( /____/ ( ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 20:11:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA05422; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:11:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA05397; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:11:32 -0800 (PST) From: DorenaB@aol.com Received: by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA16191; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:10:58 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:10:58 -0500 Message-ID: <961202231056_572806788@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: raygun@value.net cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Raving in Florida... Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk there is a raves mailing list for florida. here it is SERAVES@AMERICAN.EDU. one of the best clubs to go to in florida is simon's in gainesville. have fun while you're there. PLUR, dorena From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 20:16:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA05897; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:16:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA05891; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id UAA29975; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:16:13 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id UAA17759; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:16:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:16:13 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: more babbling from your Uncle Noah (semiRR) To: Uncle Noah cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Uncle Noah wrote: > second: > I have an interview for a position at Golden Gate University on Thursday > afternoon. So what does that mean? Weekend in the city!! What's the > party of choice for this weekend? It sure would be nice to spread some > happiness with you all while I have the chance!! :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~!MANTRA!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ :Full On Fridays: First Friday Of Every Month peas, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 20:28:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA06852; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:28:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ng.netgate.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA06841; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from beast (d14.netgate.net [205.214.160.46]) by ng.netgate.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA10323 for ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:30:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32A3ACDA.58BA@netgate.net> Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 20:30:18 -0800 From: The Grigsbeast Reply-To: grigsby@netgate.net Organization: Ollie's House of Cesium Pantaloons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: What is wrong with etc. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Thompson. Jim wrote: > One CAN be more advanced and still realize that we are not > perfect. What is the point of trying to say that we as humans > are not more advanced than the other creatures on this planet? Because it's not strictly true? "Advanced", in this context, is an entirely subjective term, so we can define ourselves to be either the most advanced, the least advanced, or anywhere in between. And the more research I do into various social animals (chimpanzees, ravens, wolves, etc.), the less I believe that we dominate even the traditional measures of advancement (symbolic language, tool usage, complexity of interaction, and so on). In fact, the average human, from a biological perspective, leads a stunningly featureless life of work->TV->sleep->repeat, with occasional hunting for mates thrown in. The fact that this average human uses a lot of very complex technology to do so isn't interesting from a sociobiological standpoint, as they had no hand in creating it and do not understand it in the least. A human driving a car is no more intrinsically impressive than a seagull dropping a shell on the road so that the same car will crack it open and let her eat the contents. // grigsbeast From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 20:32:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA07124; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:32:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA07120; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:32:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id UAA02473; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:32:35 -0800 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id UAA17400; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:32:34 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 20:32:33 -0800 (PST) From: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Reply-To: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Subject: ===>> SEE YA <<=== To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk MHg is outa here. You people get on my last nerve. Gansta this gangsta that....oh,lets get lots of E so we can actually have phun...I'm not going, it's just gonna be hella hot and the floor is gonna be all wet and slippery... oh my god, that person is wearing ADIADAS look out!!!!!!! FEEL THE FUCKING VIBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MHg / Sherry PS sorry to all you who I love dearly...you know who you are ;) I'll see ya @ parties and write me personally. Liquid has my address, if you don't. ___________ ___________ | _____ | | _____ | | [_____] | -={ RaVe On }=- | [_____] | | __ | | __ | | (__) | | (__) | ^ | | | | ^ \ | _____ | ^ ^ | _____ |/ <-- | / \ | / \ | / \ |--> <--^-- | | | | ---* 0 *---| | | | --^--> <-- | | (_) | | \ /-\ /| | (_) | |--> / | | | |_______==___==_______| | | |\ * | \_____/ | | \_____/ | * |___________|____|_____|_____|____|___________| \ o / \ / |__ o _ | ___\o | o/ o/__ /\ / \ /) | /o\ / ) | (\ / | o ) O/ < \ /\- -| /\O/ _/\ /\ /|_ \\ / / / / // ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- ) ______ ___ _________ ) ( ___ |/ /______ _______ /______ ________ ___ _____ ( ) __ /|_/ / _ __ `/_ __ / _ __ `/__ __ `__ \_ _ \ ) ( _ / / / / /_/ / / /_/ / / /_/ / _ / / / / // __/ ) ) /_/ /_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___/ ) ( ( ) ______ ___ mhg@cats.ucsc.edu ) ( ___ |/ /_____ ___________________ _______________ __( ) __ /|_/ / _ _ \__ ___/_ ___/_ / / /__ ___/__ / / /) ( _ / / / / __/_ / / /__ / /_/ / _ / _ /_/ / ( ) /_/ /_/ \___/ /_/ \___/ \__,_/ /_/ _\__, / ) ( /____/ ( ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 21:09:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id VAA09785; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 21:09:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA09754; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 21:08:56 -0800 (PST) From: Pacificsou@aol.com Received: by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA19668 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 00:08:20 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 00:08:20 -0500 Message-ID: <961203000819_1952134967@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Feedback on Spaces Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi, Does anyone have any cool ideas about places to have a party? If so, we're trying to get some feedback. Please Email privately if your interested!! Thanks, Galen Pacific Sound From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 21:19:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id VAA10540; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 21:19:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from melvax.sonoma.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA10531; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 21:18:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from 130.157.38.158 (SA-6EN158.sonoma.edu) by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.0-7 #8366) id <01ICJROW6FES9PO3X7@SONOMA.EDU>; Mon, 02 Dec 1996 21:18:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 21:30:07 +0000 From: ess kay three Subject: Re: Shitty p... --> sober rav... [reply] To: Mr nStuff Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Reply-to: zintsmas@SONOMA.EDU Message-id: <31B0B65F.7B68@vax.sonoma.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199612030357.TAA25615@mom.hooked.net> Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > somebody in that park keeps throwing sticks in my spokes. It don't matter > how I approched my day. I will be pissed. And I don't concider a negative > pissed off attitude, a good time. I agree that sticks in your spokes could be annoying, and piss you off, but at a party, no matter what shit is talked, can't you just ignore it and LOSE yourself into the MUSIC, and dance your ass off? I know that when someone says something about you, because you're wearing this type of clothing or that, it's pretty fucking annoying. But why do you let it bother you, when you know these people are SHALLOW enough to even judge you based on what shirt you decided to wear that night? Their judgement should mean nothing to you, and you should be able to go on and keep dancing. It's hard, yea, and sometimes the sticks stop you.. And MASS props to you Jeff, for keeping yourself REAL. But HONESTLY, what can DRUGS do to get rid of the spokes? You could get high enough to pretend that the stick isn't there, but if it's so bad that you have to take drugs to get rid of the stick, the stick must be so big you can't even ride your bike.... Ya still with me on this analogy? I guess what I'm trying to say is that yea, there's gonna be people talkin shit and trying to ruin the vibe sometimes, but the night is what you make of it, not what drugs you take. Everyone has their choice whether or not to do E, I do it sometimes and sometimes I don't but I don't let other people's attitudes decide whether or not I'm gonna do drugs, I let myself decide it. But then again, that's just me... Smiles, LAra.. p.s. Madame Mercury, you will be MISSED gurl! *hugz* -- (sk3) [ J U N G L I S T ] . . . wishing on a star . . . From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 21:50:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id VAA13013; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 21:50:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA13009; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 21:50:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id VAA13875; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 21:50:24 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id VAA28767; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 21:50:23 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 21:50:22 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: ===>> SEE YA <<=== To: "-=]madame mercury[=-" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, -=]madame mercury[=- wrote: [snippage] > FEEL THE FUCKING VIBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [more snippage] don't ya just love it when someone screams at you to (be mellow, feel the vibe, respect one another, insert your own euphimism here) and then expects your respect and understanding? Sorta like being the victum in an abusive relationship. It's especially encouraging when they take a provcative, aggressive and hostile tone and then don't wish to engage in a dialogue about the situation. Strikes me as insecure or deliberate muck-raking. On the other hand the association of what one wear's as to one's general "coolness" factor _is_ sloppy thinking. This is displayed by the "gangsta's" and the people that decry them. peace y'all Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 22:00:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id WAA13841; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from yvv.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id WAA13818; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:00:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from inspiration by yvv.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA08759; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 01:01:52 -0500 Message-ID: <32A3C11F.1436@village.yvv.com> Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 21:56:48 -0800 From: inspired Reply-To: inspired@village.yvv.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy C Cone CC: "-=]madame mercury[=-" , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: ===>> SEE YA <<=== References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Here, Here, Mr Randy!!!!1 well said! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 22:10:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id WAA14637; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:10:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id WAA14631; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id WAA16467; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:09:57 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id WAA01494; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:09:57 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:09:56 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Reply-To: Randy C Cone Subject: Ride help needed for Mantra, 12/6 (BSP) To: Gregory Sandler , Martin Randall , nick farwell , ephedrina , Jess Berkson , Juhstyn@aol.comsfraves, sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all! =) Yes I know this is the second time on the list; I'm trying to catch all those who unsubscribed on turkey weekend. ;) I could use a ride from Santa Cruz to SF on friday for Mantra. I'm just bringing slides and lighting so there is not a whole lot of stuff. ;) I would like to leave around noon or so although this is negotionable. Ideally a ride back would be ideal but I do have a way back if neccesary. Gas, of course, will be covered and driver need not be concerned with any physical labor (although help is never refused ;). I can be reached here or called at the number below. Thanks!!!!! =) hugz, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 22:23:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id WAA15637; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:23:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from SanMateo01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA15631; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from tiedye.tiedye.com ([205.158.215.178]) by SanMateo01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.1 ID# 0-11029) with SMTP id AAB21455; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:23:39 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961203062402.00a25948@sanmateo01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: andy-pythagoras@sanmateo01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 22:24:02 -0800 To: Alex , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: andy@pythagoras.org (Andrew Nourse) Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 01:12 PM 12/1/96 -0700, Alex wrote: >I was wondering, if there are any non-techno bands or groups you like >which you think share similar qualities to electronic music. The Grateful Dead certainly did. I got into raving because the Dead got me hooked on dancing. Deadheads and ravers have a lot in common too. fugenmissem..... The Tie-Dyed Side of the Force From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 22:26:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id WAA15848; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:26:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA15843; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:26:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BAA12707; Tue, 03 Dec 1996 01:26:28 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: UN-COOL WORLD PRODUCTIONS Message-ID: <19961202.222323.3894.2.plur@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-15,34-38,40 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 01:26:28 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Cool World is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT a Rave Production. >They are are a PARTY Production. They may talk about raves and Peac >and all that, but I do not recomend going to any Cool World PARTY (I >emphasize the party part) unless you enjoy, getting pushed, shoved, >stepped on, talked down to, getting a fist full of bad vibes thrown at >you, spit on, maybe even raped, you bag stolen, them taking away your >glitter, highlighter, water, and anything else that makes a rave not a >rave, because Cool World doesn't through raves they throw parties. And >anyone who saids Otherwise I have onE thing to say to them. > >PLURF >Peace, Love, Unity, Respect, Fuck You! >-Paul >P.S. Good Vibes and Love To All! Sorry about gettin so pissed of about COOL WORLD. Didn't mean to be so mean, but i meant what i said earlier. And i don't beleive that people get raped at every cool world. But i do know that my friend knows a girl who got rapped by a bunch of gangas on E. As far as all the other stuff. I can back it up any day because it happened to me. As far as COOL WORLD as a production group, I don't know why this happens at their parties. It just does. Maybe it is because their flyers are magazines and are passed out at School, Malls (ie: Valley Fair, Serramonte), And I even saw one on the ground oustide a Safeway. Now raves are supposed to be an underground thing. They aren't anymore, but we are suppose to try to keep it as low key as possible. That means small flyers that don't attract the attention of people who don't understand how to act at a rave such as Clubbers, Gangstas, Bad Vibes, whatever people who don't know what a rave is truly about. PLUR not drugs, not music, not Sex on E. It may not be very PLURish to say those things about COOL WORLD, but i am only looking out for other ravers who have never been to a COOL WORLD and may be planning to go to it this New Years. I suggest going to one of the many other New Years raves. Lets leave COOL WORLD to the Clubbers, Gangstas, Bad Vibes. Don't go to a COOL WORLD, its not worht the money. PLUR, Paul P.S. For heavens sakes people, think about it. Angelina and Rough Neck are preforming live their! They play their songs on WILD 107.7! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 23:29:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA19432; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from kzsu.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA19428; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:29:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from radon@localhost) by kzsu.Stanford.EDU (8.8.3/8.6.9) id XAA02954; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:29:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:29:09 -0800 (PST) From: dj radon To: Jonathan Mark Logan cc: "Wayne D. Correia" , "-=]madame mercury[=-" , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: huge signatures don't seem to be RR either In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ummm... Who is "B.F. Skinner"? dj radon On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Jonathan Mark Logan wrote: > On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, Wayne D. Correia wrote: > > > > > Less is more. please? > > > > Ten points if you can tell us who coined that phrase! > > (Now back to our regularly scheduled flamefest) > > jon 'artsy fartsy' logan > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Dec 2 23:29:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA19458; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:29:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from PON.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA19450; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:29:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by pon.net (Wildcat) id 28160W Tue, 03 Dec 1996 07:23:24 GMT From: faust@pon.net (Faust) Subject: nrr test Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 07:23:18 GMT Message-Id: <849597798@pon.net> Organization: Pacific Online To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk test (I told you so!) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 00:38:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id AAA25246; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 00:38:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from PACBELL.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA25231; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 00:38:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (pablin@ppp-206-170-4-83.wnck11.pacbell.net [206.170.4.83]) by PACBELL.net (8.7.6/8.7.1) with SMTP id AAA23466; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 00:38:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961203082830.006b9e58@pacbell.net> X-Sender: pablin@pacbell.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 00:28:30 -0800 To: andy@pythagoras.org (Andrew Nourse) From: Pablo Beck Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? Cc: Alex , sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 10:24 PM 12/2/96 -0800, Andrew Nourse wrote: >At 01:12 PM 12/1/96 -0700, Alex wrote: >>I was wondering, if there are any non-techno bands or groups you like >>which you think share similar qualities to electronic music. Hummm... I wonder/think I would probably put ENYA in the electronic-type music? ? Pab From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 01:03:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id BAA26580; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 01:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.humboldt.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id BAA26574; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 01:03:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by axe.humboldt.edu; id AA13555; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 01:03:22 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 01:03:22 -0800 (PST) From: Rebecca Klassen To: beat and ravish eaters Subject: huh? weekend? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I don't know if it was mentioned at all, for my e-mail acct was not receiving jack this weekend, but this last Friday has got to be one of the most crazy daisy fuct things ever. Me and my friend hitchiked down to SF, it took us two hours than it normally takes (a smaking seven hours, with another hitchiker's smelly dog on my lap- not that this was bad b/c the dog was cute, but it just adds to my complaining effect). We arrive in SF; we were going to meet his friend staying in Modesto in Sac to go to Ubiquitous, but we find it is now in SF. So his friend drives out to SF (and it is her first party, by the way, and my friend can count the number of parties he's been to on his fingers, he says). The normal delays, we don't get to the venue until 12. Long line. We wait. We wait. All hell breaks loose and the line is no longer a line but a lateral lump of people holding their tickets in the air wanting to bust past the security (the guy behind me pushing against the mass of people saying 'you gotta take a risk, you gotta take a risk' repeatedly). What the fuck? It's shutting down at 2?! "Are the cops gonna conveniently show up?" I say. Heh, heh, famous first words. So we go around to the side chill locale and beg mercy to the security guy, and he lets us in b/c there's only a half hour left. We sprint in, dance like crazy for the shortest duration that I have ever -paid- for. This is like the third or fourth time that my friend has had a shitty time with SF parties, and I've been trying to convince him that SF has some good to it. I had had a bad feeling about that party but it was supposed to be free so he wanted to go, plus there would be no financial risk for his friend if it flopped. We stayed the night at his friend's cousin's house, ate lunch, and then decided it wasn't worth it to try to go to another party. So we drove home. rebecca From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 01:28:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id BAA27643; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 01:28:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id BAA27638; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 01:28:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.15.83.79] (sf2-ppp79.well.com [206.15.83.79]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.6/8.7.5) with ESMTP id BAA14622 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 01:28:02 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: surfpunk@mail.well.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 01:25:45 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Jim Cyr Subject: testing 1-2-3 Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk blah. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 06:47:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id GAA24034; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 06:47:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom5.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id GAA24012; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 06:47:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom5.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id GAA17578; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 06:47:47 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 06:47:47 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > >To: Randy C Cone >From: "John S. Lee" >Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E >Cc: >Bcc: >X-Attachments: > >>On Mon, 2 Dec 1996, -=]madame mercury[=- wrote: >> >>> > >>> > -=]madame mercury[=-, mhg@cats.ucsc.edu wrote... >>> > > This was a pretty shittey post. I'm sorry to see that you think >>> > > E is the only way to have fun. At least now I know where people >>> > > like Leeza (and her crew) get the idea that raving is only about >>> > > DRUGS!!!!!!!!! >>> > > >>> > > I went sober with all my friends and we had lots of fun. I'm >>> > > sorry to see that you feel the need to be so dependent on E >>> > > to have a good time :( >>> > >>> > I think you're misinterpreting the post. >>> > Drugs are not the only way to have fun. Drugs are the only way to >>>have >>> > fun at a party in a shitty space filled with a bunch of A***** wearing >>> > gangstas :) >> >>> >>> And about the "Adidas wearing ganstas" GET OFF IT >> >>hmmm, a bit sensitive and insecure maybe? > >Hmm mmaybe some people are a bit tireed of the oft used "gangsta" >nonsense. Maybe some people are tired of code names being used for people >of color. Maybe some people should wake up and see we're approaching the >21st century and predjudice has no place, nor bigotry, nor hatred. > >Get off the gangsta shit. If you would like to see true thug life, it CAN >be arranged. E-mail me for details on how YOU can tell a real gangstah >from a phoney baloney. I will organize a field trip for everyones >edification. > >Lmae ass labels...stoopid shit. > >Out (I KNOW we're not going anywhere, anytime soon...real contenders...;( ), >John > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 07:53:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id HAA28630; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 07:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id HAA28615; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 07:52:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 07:50:35 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA07366; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 07:50:35 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: N.R.R...Job offers Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Just thought I'd post that my Company has some Tech Support/Engineering jobs open. For more info check out... ( www.insignia.com/hr/jobs.html#ts ) It's not listed there, but we are looking for Tech engineers for Mac also. If you don't have access to the web just let me know and I can email you the info. The company is in Santa Clara. This company treats it's people really good too. In fact sometimes too good. I guess that's why I like working here. They notice you when you do good. It would take a BIG pay increase to leave here. Everyone I work with are really great too. Anyway, just thought I'd post it here so maybe a fellow 'raver' can get a job if they want. If you want to know more just ask. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 08:06:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id IAA00115; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA00106; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:06:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from kelly.teleport.com (kelly.teleport.com [192.108.254.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA29626; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:06:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chicchan@localhost) by kelly.teleport.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id IAA23027; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:05:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:05:38 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: knucklehead cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: N.R.R...Job offers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hey, i thought you took off with the aliens or something! we've been jipped! b. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 08:07:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id IAA00200; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:07:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA00178; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:06:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:04:34 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA07440; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:04:34 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: Ravers in Prison - PLEASE READ! -forwarded Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Saw this on Socal raves and thought it might be a good idea. ************************************************ >Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 22:15:47 -0800 >From: Ken Lawrence >Reply-To: techno@pacificnet.net >Organization: Pure Acid Mixtapes >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: socal-raves@UCSD.EDU >Subject: Ravers in Prison - PLEASE READ! > >Yo ravers...I got this letter in the mail a few days ago. >This shit can happen to just about any one of us, so help out a raver >who's down on his luck... > >"Dear Ken - or whoever, > "My name is Noah and I'm locked up here at beautiful High Point. It's >this work camp on a mountain top. I'm serving a ten year sentence >because I got caught with 15 hits of liquid acid. Crazy, right. > "But anyway, they let you have a walkman and tapes _but_ they told me >you can't have mixtapes up in here because they might be bootlegs. >Completely asinine, I know. I read how you don't sell bootlegs and >that's cool. I think it's like if a tape is blank, not a "real" tape >with writing on it they won't let you have it. That's stoopid! They >got lots of crazy rules. > "So what I need to know is if all your tapes are ex-blanks or are >"real", with printing on the tape, or whatever. You know what I mean. >Also, are they shrink wrapped? > "I like all types of techno but mainly I listen to hardtrance/acid, >hardcore/gabber and some trip hop & jungle... > "Please respond soon. The only music I hear now is Soul Train. Help! > "Sincerely, Noah Reed #128771 > MYCF High Point Satellite Unit A 1450 Rt. 23 > Sussex, NJ 07461" > >I'm posting this to the list because it would be awesome if anyone here >sent this guy some mail, flyers, tapes you don't listen to anymore, etc. >It only costs about $1 in postage to send a tape in the mail and I'm >sure it would really make this guy's day. Just don't send him drugs or >you'll be in deep ca-ca! >I'm sure there won't be a problem with him getting tapes, perhaps you >can include a note saying "To whom it may concern - these are gifts." >Don't send him tapes with X-rated j-cards, I know because someone in >prison ordered Ron D Core's "Angel of Death", but I got it back in the >mail with a note saying "Unacceptable material". >If anyone else knows of any such restrictions, please post, as I'm >putting together a package for him myself. > >Like I said, this dude's life is ruined all because he got caught with >less than $100 worth of LSD. So, perform a plurry random act of >kindness and send this guy flyers/letters/tapes to the address listed >above, if you can. Imagine yourself in the same situation...wouldn't it >be cool if all of the sudden you got a bunch of techno in the mail so >you didn't have to listen to Soul Train for 10 years? > >Think about it and know this dude would really appreciate it, thanks >socalers! >--Ken >-- >Pure Acid Mixtapes >T a p e s f o r y o u r t r i p. >online store now open. http://www.pureacidmixtapes.com >310-793-1021 Hardcore will never die. > Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 08:23:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id IAA01739; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA01734; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:23:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id IAA27498; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:25:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199612031625.IAA27498@precipice.v-site.net> From: "Geoff White" To: , Subject: Re: sober raving & E Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:23:34 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: czefir@sprynet.com > To: sfraves@hyperreal.com > Subject: sober raving & E > Date: Sunday, December 01, 1996 10:49 PM > > > hello all, > > not being a participater in the E taking I was wondering how other non-drug > people manage to stay up so long. I usually find myself winding down around > 4:00 and after that cannot usually be revived unless there is some really > kick-ass music going. Being tired beyond the point of exhaustion usually ruins > my night so I leave when I start to feel it set in. I would like to be able to > stay up longer but the after effects (and during effects) of stuff to keep you > up longer does not interest me at all. So...how do you do it? > > wish me luck for my admissions interview at FIDM tommorow, please, > > later everyone, > > Megan Czefir o Don't eat a large meal before you rave. o Take a "disco nap" betwen 8 pm and 11 pm before you go out o And the most important thing is to get plenty of aerobic exercise and avoid animal products in your diet, many long term ravers are veggies and i think its for that reason, the less meat you eat the less uric and lactic acid (the things that trigger that tired feeling) build up you will have. Good Luck on your interview! G While I have had my share of ExperiencEs, The majority of the parties that I have attended over the past year or so I attended completely sober, even "back in tha day", Aerobics and a veggie diet will beat Meth any day. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 08:54:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id IAA04848; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:54:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA04827; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:54:38 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA09652; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:54:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 08:54:34 -0800 (PST) To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > >>hmmm, a bit sensitive and insecure maybe? > > > >Hmm mmaybe some people are a bit tireed of the oft used "gangsta" > >nonsense. Maybe some people are tired of code names being used for people > >of color. Maybe some people should wake up and see we're approaching the > >21st century and predjudice has no place, nor bigotry, nor hatred. John, I really wish you would get off this "everyone is a racist" crap. "Gangsta" is about attitude, not color. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 09:18:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA07179; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:18:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA07165; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:18:46 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI02@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id MAA17673; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:18:41 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22583; Tue, 3 Dec 96 09:18:37 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 2A461720; Tue, 3 Dec 96 09:20:50 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:14:17 -0800 Message-Id: <2A461720.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re[2]: shitty post --> sober raving & E To: "John S. Lee" , blkadder@value.net Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk how about if we redefine "gangsta" as "sometimes harmful closeted bisexual". anyone? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E Author: blkadder@value.net at ccsmtp Date: 12/3/96 8:54 AM On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > >>hmmm, a bit sensitive and insecure maybe? > > > >Hmm mmaybe some people are a bit tireed of the oft used "gangsta" > >nonsense. Maybe some people are tired of code names being used for people > >of color. Maybe some people should wake up and see we're approaching the > >21st century and predjudice has no place, nor bigotry, nor hatred. John, I really wish you would get off this "everyone is a racist" crap. "Gangsta" is about attitude, not color. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 09:42:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA09768; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:42:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA09719; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:41:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA13628; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:41:41 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612031741.JAA13628@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E To: blkadder@value.net Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:41:41 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "blkadder@value.net" at Dec 3, 96 08:54:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > >>hmmm, a bit sensitive and insecure maybe? > > > > > >Hmm mmaybe some people are a bit tireed of the oft used "gangsta" > > >nonsense. Maybe some people are tired of code names being used for people > > >of color. Maybe some people should wake up and see we're approaching the > > >21st century and predjudice has no place, nor bigotry, nor hatred. > > John, I really wish you would get off this "everyone is a racist" crap. > "Gangsta" is about attitude, not color. > > Black Adder > > > And I do wish that many of you white males would stop using code words to indetify people of color. Enough of the veiled racist bullshit that has invaded this list. Enough of the not-so-veiled racism. Enough of the "non-pc" ways of categorizing people just becuase you can. Enough of you not understanding other peoples feelings. Enough indeed. Late, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 09:44:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA10058; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA09951; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:43:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv3.apple.com (A17-128-100-121.apple.com [17.128.100.121]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA59620 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:42:14 -0800 Received: from newton.apple.com (newton.apple.com [17.205.32.200]) by scv3.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA36034 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:44:22 -0800 Received: from [17.205.32.116] by newton.apple.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24752; Tue, 3 Dec 96 09:43:47 PST Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 09:43:46 PST Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: qhelp@newton.apple.com (Ivan Vasquez) Subject: Re[2]: shitty post --> sober raving & E Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk How about if we just stop talking about gangstas all together. What happened to PLUR? Even if somebody is different they should be accepted by the rave scene, shouldn't they. Have you ever considered that maybe the gangstas are trying to make a change in their lives by going to raves? So what if they still walk around looking like criminals, they still contribute to the diversity that makes raves what they are today. I think everybody should take a nice long 420 break and loosen up! Ivan At 5:14 PM 12/3/96, TGARCI02@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com wrote: > how about if we redefine "gangsta" as "sometimes harmful closeted > bisexual". > > anyone? 42042042042042042042042042042042042 2 Ivan Vasquez 0 0 Qhelp and K.info Hardware Assistance 4 4 qhelp@newton.apple.com 2 2 k.info@newton.apple.com 0 0 I'm located in R&D5 4 4 3rd Floor cube B357 2 20420420420420420420420420420420420 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 09:52:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA10843; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:52:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA10834; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:52:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:50:25 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA09176; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:50:25 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: What the plans for the weekend? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I was going through my desk at work and realized we are having a Company parties on friday the 6th at Ralston Hall on the College of Notre Dame campus from 7pm-midnight. Grilled fillet minion, grilled samon, grilled portabella mushrooms for the main course. I don't have a thing to wear or even a date to take. Why did I say I would go let alone plus one guest. Business/Semi-formal Attire is not even in my wardrobe. Now I'm going to have to buy some clothes, I guess that might be a good thing though. I was planning on maybe checking out Lepidoptera after my company party. What is everyone else doing friday night???? Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 09:54:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA10956; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA10936; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from (solle@srf-ca10-59.ix.netcom.com [205.186.119.187]) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA05046; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:53:20 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:53:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199612031753.JAA05046@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> From: solle@ix.netcom.com (Sunny) Subject: Anybody need a trip-hop DJ? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I was hoping that one of you could help me. On Thursday we’re flying in a trip-hop DJ from San Diego to play our party on Saturday night. He was scheduled to play a Thursday night gig also but we just found out that it has been canceled. Does anybody know of any promoters/clubs who could use the talents of a really killer dubby trip-hop DJ on Thursday or Friday night? Thanks in advance for your help. -SUNNY Solle Clothing Co. solle@solle.com “Search & Satisfy” tm From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 10:11:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA12324; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:11:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from yam.tenetwork.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA12318; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from Feynman.tenetwork.com (feynman.tenetwork.com [10.10.2.99]) by yam.tenetwork.com (8.7.6/8.7.2) with SMTP id KAA21285 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:04:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32A46DF0.5CB0@ten.net> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 10:14:08 -0800 From: Pengo Reply-To: Pengo@ten.net Organization: Pengo Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR Senate attacks 215 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >From the front page of this mornings chronicle. >>>> A counterattack against California's controversial ``medical marijuana'' law began on Capitol Hill yesterday, with lawmakers calling for stepped-up enforcement of federal drug statutes to blunt the impact of the ballot measure. A U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on the law opened on the eve of a meeting today in Sacramento of state Department of Justice agents, county district attorneys, county sheriffs and municipal police to devise strategies for prosecuting marijuana growers. ``Candidly, we don't know what our options are right now,'' said Steve Telliano, a spokesman for Attorney General Dan Lungren, who called the meeting. ``The law is so open-ended and vague, there are so few specifics, that police and prosecutors are genuinely confused. Anything appears to be possible, but we won't have an idea of where we stand until (the conclusion of the summit).'' At the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing in Washington yesterday, lawmakers vowed to watch the impact of California's medical marijuana initiative -- as well as a similar ballot measure passed in Arizona -- calling them a first step in a well-orchestrated, well-funded plan to legalize drugs in America. ``We can't let this go without a response,'' Senator Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, declared. Senator Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., charged that Arizona voters had been hoodwinked into supporting his state's measure by deceptive advertising, and he asked the federal Drug Enforcement Administration to accelerate anti-drug efforts there. ``I believe most of them (voters) were deceived and deliberately so by the sponsors of this proposition,'' Kyl said. ``(The ballot measure) begins a road to destruction of people's lives in this country.'' In California, law-enforcement officials meeting today will try to develop strategies that specifically address Proposition 215's vague cultivation clauses. The initiative states that the seriously ill or their primary caregivers may cultivate marijuana for the patient's personal use. But the term ``primary caregiver'' is not defined, nor is the amount of pot specified that may be legally grown. ``Everyone is up in the air about this,'' said Ed Denson, director of the Civil Liberties Monitoring Project, a Humboldt County organization that keeps tabs on police actions against local marijuana growers. ``There's so much about the initiative that nobody understands. How many plants can patients grow? Who or what is a caregiver? Can you hire somebody to grow for you? Can there be communal gardens? Nobody has the faintest idea.'' Denson said it would be extremely difficult for law enforcement agents to determine the difference between legal and illegal marijuana plots under Proposition 215's language. RAIDING THE GARDENS ``I assume that they'll continue to raid very large gardens that they see from the air, ones that obviously exceed reasonable limits of the `personal use' provisions,'' said Denson. ``But what happens when they come across small gardens? Especially ones that have signs on them identifying them as medical marijuana?'' Even Proposition 215's advocates have found themselves in two philosophical camps about marijuana cultivation. Dennis Peron, the co-writer of Proposition 215 and director of a San Francisco marijuana buyer's club that was raided by state agents August 4, said the passage of the initiative would generally ``loosen the bonds'' for pot cultivators. ``You're going to see more pot and cheaper pot around,'' said Peron. ``I suspect more people will grow it, for either medical (or recreational) use. What the passage (of 215) shows is that the people of California want a change in legal priorities -- they're saying armed robbery and drive-by shootings deserve more attention than somebody smoking a joint.'' But Bill Zimmerman, campaign manager for California for Medical Rights, the lead promotional organization for Proposition 215, strongly disagrees. NARROW INTERPRETATION ``The voters who approved Proposition 215 were not voting to liberalize laws on the recreational use of marijuana,'' said Zimmerman. ``They were voting to ensure that legitimate medical patients with legitimate recommendations from legitimate physicians would have access to medical marijuana. We think the proposition should be interpreted narrowly to benefit patients and only patients.'' Zimmerman warned that an unregulated boom in pot cultivation could harm the medical marijuana movement. ``The people could take away in 1998 what they gave in 1996,'' said Zimmerman. ``If Proposition 215 is ultimately perceived as leading to a substantial increase in recreational marijuana smoking and cultivation, we could very easily see the passage of an initiative that overturns the decriminalization of medical marijuana.'' -=Pengo=- Blake "Pengo" Merriam TOTAL ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK WWW.TEN.NET From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 10:13:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA12465; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:13:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA12461; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:13:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id KAA24843; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:13:09 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id KAA08818; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:13:07 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:13:07 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: What the plans for the weekend? To: knucklehead cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, knucklehead wrote: [snip] > I was planning on maybe checking out Lepidoptera after my company party. > What is everyone else doing friday night???? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~!MANTRA!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Full On Friday's First Friday Of Every Month peas, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 10:25:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA13424; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:25:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA13419; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:25:55 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA16943; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:25:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:25:50 -0800 (PST) To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E In-Reply-To: <199612031741.JAA13628@netcom20.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > > On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > > > >>hmmm, a bit sensitive and insecure maybe? > > > > > > > >Hmm mmaybe some people are a bit tireed of the oft used "gangsta" > > > >nonsense. Maybe some people are tired of code names being used for people > > > >of color. Maybe some people should wake up and see we're approaching the > > > >21st century and predjudice has no place, nor bigotry, nor hatred. > > > > John, I really wish you would get off this "everyone is a racist" crap. > > "Gangsta" is about attitude, not color. > > > > Black Adder > > > > > > > And I do wish that many of you white males would stop using code words to > indetify people of color. Enough of the veiled racist bullshit that has > invaded this list. > Enough of the not-so-veiled racism. Enough of the "non-pc" ways of > categorizing people just becuase you can. Yeah, but it is perfectly acceptable to talk shit about all us evil "white males," huh? Who is categorizing whom? > Enough of you not understanding other peoples feelings. Look in the mirror John. A while back, I believe Larry Ching went to the trouble and did a little survey about the use of the word "gangsta" to describe certain individuals. The results confirmed my understanding and use of the word: "gangsta" is about attitude and not color. It is only a color issue because you wish it to be one. Just another white male (and it is PC to bash us so go for it!) Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 10:44:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA15154; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:44:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from seidc.sei.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA15145; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:44:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from monet.sei.com (monet.sei.com [198.202.174.27]) by seidc.sei.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA21334; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:23:29 -0800 From: Martin Randall Received: (kk@localhost) by monet.sei.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA18243; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:23:27 -0800 Message-Id: <199612031823.KAA18243@monet.sei.com> Subject: Re: ===>> SEE YA <<=== To: mhg@cats.ucsc.edu Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:23:27 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "-=]madame mercury[=-" at Dec 2, 96 08:32:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk MHg, please don't go! I know it gets weird when people on the list get picky about NRR and ganstas and adidas and stuff, but we're still a big family even though we get into ridiculous squabbles about nothing. I didn't think it was unreasonable to ask for an NRR when posting about phish, so what's the big deal!? Hope you'll stay - I actually LIKED your cool high-bandwidth signature! (Now don't start on me, folks!), Feel the vibe.... - Martin =] > > > > MHg is outa here. You people get on my last nerve. > Gansta this gangsta that....oh,lets get lots of E so we > can actually have phun...I'm not going, it's just gonna > be hella hot and the floor is gonna be all wet and slippery... > oh my god, that person is wearing ADIADAS look out!!!!!!! > > FEEL THE FUCKING VIBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > MHg / Sherry > > PS > sorry to all you who I love dearly...you know who you are ;) > I'll see ya @ parties and write me personally. Liquid has my > address, if you don't. > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 10:51:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA15929; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:51:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA15923; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:51:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv2.apple.com (A17-128-100-120.apple.com [17.128.100.120]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA33014; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:50:27 -0800 Received: from [17.221.21.116] (greeja.apple.com [17.221.21.116]) by scv2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA23262; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:52:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199612031852.KAA23262@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: UN-COOL WORLD PRODUCTIONS Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 10:54:16 -0000 x-sender: green2@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Jason Green To: , cc: "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Jon"dabomb" wrote: >Dude, dont spread shit like that around! Rape, Fuck you. thats not cool.( no >pun intended) I have never gone to one of their big productions, but I can >assure that what you say is not true. This happenes every time,. people diss >them people diss Martin, people diss people for clothes whatever.... nobody >can change that, but dont say harsh words when you can't back them up with >the truth. >Peace, >Jonathan I think if you read what plur@juno.com wrote, you might consider taking your foot out of your mouth: >"And i don't beleive that people get raped at every cool world. But i do know that my >friend knows a girl who got raped by a bunch of gangas on E. As far as >all the other stuff. I can back it up any day because it happened to me..." Fist off, you (Jon"dabomb") have never even *been* to one of thier "parties," so where do you get off spouting off such strong opinions? Maybe you should get some actual *facts* to back up your mindless, uninformed blabbering, huh? I, nor others cannot see one single hint of a reason to defend them (Cool World) in any way - why do you? Everything that has been said against them is true and then some. *Think before you speak*, and avoid unsightly, foot-in-mouth moments - for your own good and others. On a final note, I again quote the wise, and informed words of plur@juno.com: >P.S. For heavens sakes people, think about it. Angelina and Rough Neck >are preforming live their! They play their songs on WILD 107.7! Anybody that has a 107.7 preset on any piece of stereo equipment need not reply or comment!!!!! Immediately disqualified! :-) *Happy* trails... (no guns or raping) _jason_ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 10:54:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA16209; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:54:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.crl.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA16199; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:54:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from crl8.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA18742 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:55:03 -0800 Received: by crl8.crl.com id AA21467 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for sfraves@hyperreal.com); Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:49:51 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:49:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Daniel J. MacMillan" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR - Job posting (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all ... We are looking to add a Tech Support person here at VideoLogic. Feel free to email me a resume or fax it, and I'll get back to you quickly. Thanks! Technical Support Videologic, a leading manufacturer of Computer Graphics accelerators and Multimedia Peripherals is seeking a highly motivated self starter to join our Technical Support team. As a Tech Support Rep you will field incoming support calls from our customers, test product and support our sales team. This position requires 3 yrs experience with PC HW&SW, excellent oral and written skills, and a meticulous attention to detail. Experience in the multimedia/gfx upgrade market a big plus. Videologic offers a competitive salary and benefits package. Interested candidates should forward their resume to: Videologic 1001 Bayhill Dr. Ste.310 San Bruno,Ca 94066 Attn.: Technical Support Fax 415-875-4167 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 11:01:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA16863; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA16840; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BBE10A.189DD4E0@misnt1.rely.com>; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:06:56 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: RE: What the plans for the weekend? Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:06:49 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello, It looks as if I'll be spinning @ a small house/techno/ravish party in the Oakland Hills area on Friday. Since it is in a semi-residential district, it looks as if it will go on till midnite-ish or so. Methinks that Ill be @ __Lepidoptera__ for that after party thing (granted it might be a bit funny watching me boogie my crippled butt to techno). __Karma__ looks like the thing to do on Saturday. C-U in the void, Adam >---------- >From: knucklehead@club.net >Subject: What the plans for the weekend? > >I was going through my desk at work and realized we are having a Company >parties on friday the 6th at Ralston Hall. >Business/Semi-formal Attire is not even in my wardrobe. > > I was planning on maybe checking out Lepidoptera after my company party. >What is everyone else doing friday night???? > >Tim (knucklehead) > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 11:01:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA16953; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:01:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA16853; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:01:22 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA19435; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:00:45 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:00:45 -0500 Message-ID: <961203140044_906131960@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: green2@apple.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Un-Cool world Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-12-03 13:59:45 EST, MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) writes: << In a message dated 96-12-03 13:52:23 EST, you write: << Fist off, you (Jon"dabomb") have never even *been* to one of thier "parties," so where do you get off spouting off such strong opinions? Maybe you should get some actual *facts* to back up your mindless, uninformed blabbering, huh? I, nor others cannot see one single hint of a reason to defend them (Cool World) in any way - why do you? Everything that has been said against them is true and then some. *Think before you speak*, and avoid unsightly, foot-in-mouth moments - for your own good and others. >> Sorry to have said anything, I mean everyone knows all that i say is usually mindless blabbering! And as for the "where do I get off spouting off such strong opinions?" Wait a sec. Your message really angered me so I can't really reply without some sort of negativity so as to prevent some huge long thread from starting Im just going to accept whatever it is that you where trying to tell me and leave it at that. Oh and somebody told me Voltaire said" I may not agree with what you are saying but I will fight to my death to protect your right to say it!!" I can think of nothing more fitting for Sfraves than that! Peace, Jonathan >> --------------------- Forwarded message: From: MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem) To: Jondabomb@aol.com Date: 96-12-03 13:59:45 EST This is a MIME-encapsulated message --NAA29030.849639506/emout12.mail.aol.com The original message was received at Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:58:24 -0500 from root@localhost If your mail was returned due to a potentially misspelled AOL e-mail address, we may be able to assist you in finding the correct address. Point your WWW browser at http://www.idot.aol.com/search/ Here you will find instructions and a simple form to help you locate the email address you are looking for! NOTE: we cannot and will not divulge private information about members. Please only use the search resource if you believe that you may have misspelled a member's e-mail address. -AOL Postmaster ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- sfraves@hyperreeal.com (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 sfraves@hyperreeal.com... Host unknown (Name server: hyperreeal.com: host not found) ----- Original message follows ----- --NAA29030.849639506/emout12.mail.aol.com Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA29026; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:58:24 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:58:24 -0500 From: Jondabomb@aol.com Message-ID: <961203135823_572880754@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: green2@apple.com cc: sfraves@hyperreeal.com Subject: Re: UN-COOL WORLD PRODUCTIONS In a message dated 96-12-03 13:52:23 EST, you write: << Fist off, you (Jon"dabomb") have never even *been* to one of thier "parties," so where do you get off spouting off such strong opinions? Maybe you should get some actual *facts* to back up your mindless, uninformed blabbering, huh? I, nor others cannot see one single hint of a reason to defend them (Cool World) in any way - why do you? Everything that has been said against them is true and then some. *Think before you speak*, and avoid unsightly, foot-in-mouth moments - for your own good and others. >> Sorry to have said anything, I mean everyone knows all that i say is usually mindless blabbering! And as for the "where do I get off spouting off such strong opinions?" Wait a sec. Your message really angered me so I can't really reply without some sort of negativity so as to prevent some huge long thread from starting Im just going to accept whatever it is that you where trying to tell me and leave it at that. Oh and somebody told me Voltaire said" I may not agree with what you are saying but I will fight to my death to protect your right to say it!!" I can think of nothing more fitting for Sfraves than that! Peace, Jonathan --NAA29030.849639506/emout12.mail.aol.com-- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 11:10:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA17752; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:10:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA17721; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:09:56 -0800 (PST) From: kdiete01@sccced.sccd.ctc.edu Received: from SCCCSTU.sccced.sccd.ctc.edu (sccced.sccd.ctc.edu) by seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu with SMTP (1.40.112.4/16.2) id AA002490114; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:08:34 -0800 Received: from cc:Mail by SCCCSTU.sccced.sccd.ctc.edu id AA849639637; Tue, 03 Dec 96 10:56:33 PST Date: Tue, 03 Dec 96 10:56:33 PST Message-Id: <9611038496.AA849639637@SCCCSTU.sccced.sccd.ctc.edu> To: bri@value.net (Brian Denny), gonzo@leland.stanford.edu Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re[2]: mono going around? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I think one of the main reasons people find themselves sick after parties is sharing water. I know I always share my water with anyone around. :) And it only takes one person who has a cold, and doesn't have water, to infect a whole party. *grin* love+groovin kim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 11:11:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA17865; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:11:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA17851; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:11:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA23119; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:10:53 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612031910.LAA23119@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E To: blkadder@value.net Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:10:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "blkadder@value.net" at Dec 3, 96 10:25:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Okay people, move on if you don;t want to read what is about to become a flame war out of control. Delete now. > > On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > > > > > >>hmmm, a bit sensitive and insecure maybe? > > > > > > > > > >Hmm mmaybe some people are a bit tireed of the oft used "gangsta" > > > > >nonsense. Maybe some people are tired of code names being used for people > > > > >of color. Maybe some people should wake up and see we're approaching the > > > > >21st century and predjudice has no place, nor bigotry, nor hatred. > > > > > > John, I really wish you would get off this "everyone is a racist" crap. > > > "Gangsta" is about attitude, not color. > > > > > > Black Adder > > > > > > > > > > > And I do wish that many of you white males would stop using code words to > > indetify people of color. Enough of the veiled racist bullshit that has > > invaded this list. > > > Enough of the not-so-veiled racism. Enough of the "non-pc" ways of > > categorizing people just becuase you can. > > Yeah, but it is perfectly acceptable to talk shit about all us evil "white > males," huh? Who is categorizing whom? > Sir, as much as you would have liked me to, I did NOt categorize all white males. I said many white males on this list. Many is not ALL. Please re-read. Then we can re-read the archives to see where allt his gangstah talk started. I gurantee it was not started by either Geoff or I (from what I know the ONLY two black males on this hokey-doke anyway). I would also like to point out that this cetgorization has been leveled against people of color for all types of reasons. I think your dad is an ex-cop, ask him how people were categorized for easy pick-up and removal. In any case, I am categorizing the behaviour of many on this list as completely reprehensible and racist. Sorry, but I like to call a spade a spade. You and others would like to mask this truth by saying that such speech is to categorize behvaiour and not color. Really? And so plkease, educate me and others, who may know some real gangstahs, what does a gangstah act like? What is gangstah attitude? Have you ever met a gangstah (traditional)? What has been your interaction with such people and how did THEY get into OUR little scene? > > Enough of you not understanding other peoples feelings. > > Look in the mirror John. > I have and am dman happy at what I see. Please check yourself Adder. > A while back, I believe Larry Ching went to the trouble and did a little > survey about the use of the word "gangsta" to describe certain > individuals. The results confirmed my understanding and use of the word: > "gangsta" is about attitude and not color. > > It is only a color issue because you wish it to be one. It is only a color issue becuase it has always been a color issue. > > > Just another white male > (and it is PC to bash us > so go for it!) > > Black Adder > > I will not cry for your whiteness, nor will I bash you for it. But if you do like to use the term gangstah so much, I just might lable you a racist. But then, white males have been labelling things for centuries. Let's all get in the game. ;< this conversation sux. So does the rampant racism on this list. I have also understood the sexsim to be out of control as well. But I can only fight one dumb battle at a time. I will let my sisters do the other dirty tasks, and give them my 100% support. This town needs a hihg colonic. Out, John > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 11:15:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA18433; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:15:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA18426; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv3.apple.com (A17-128-100-121.apple.com [17.128.100.121]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28842; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:14:15 -0800 Received: from [17.221.21.116] (greeja.apple.com [17.221.21.116]) by scv3.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA81626; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:16:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199612031916.LAA81626@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Re: Un-Cool world Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 11:18:04 -0000 x-sender: green2@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Jason Green To: cc: "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Sorry to have said anything, I mean everyone knows all that i say is usually > mindless blabbering! And as for the "where do I get off spouting off such > strong opinions?" > Wait a sec. Your message really angered me so I can't really reply without > some sort of negativity so as to prevent some huge long thread from starting > Im just going to accept whatever it is that you where trying to tell me and > leave it at that. > Oh and somebody told me Voltaire said" I may not agree with what you are > saying but I will fight to my death to protect your right to say it!!" I can > think of nothing more fitting for Sfraves than that! > Peace, > Jonathan I am sorry for flaming you. I just KNOW what Cool World is about, have BEEN to thier events, and KNOW that everything bad that has been said is COMPLETELY true and then some. Let's just leave it at that. No more flames. And I can agree with: >" I may not agree with what you are saying but I will fight to my death to protect your right to say it!!" Pretty cool :-) Happy trails... _jason_ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 11:20:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA19019; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:20:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA18972; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:20:09 -0800 (PST) From: StEvEoberk@aol.com Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA28211 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:19:30 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:19:30 -0500 Message-ID: <961203141930_807164752@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: a Steve-O-Gram (re: my dissapearance) Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On the chance that someone has been missing me (even just a little bit?).... I apologize for not responding to any post-cabin trip posts, I've not had access to mail, nor a phone, but I'll reply as soon as possible by phone. I'm going to be uh,uh,unsubscribing till after finals & when I get back from a lil cross country road trip w/my good buddy (jSun) from NYC (incoming goa! woo0OP woo0OP!). If anyone knows of any cool stops worthwhile tween Memphis and Barstow along 40/Rt.66, lemme know. Also please read my "SFRvr seeking SFHome post" Love dem vinyls-hate dem finals, -StEvEo If you've got somethin for me via email, best to send to steveosac@aol.com, other wise, unfortunately, the best way to reach me is pgr/vm 510 802 5777, or at work 415 252-5580 (Mon & Wed) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 11:29:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA20148; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from wired.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA20140; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:29:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.62.132.48] (looking.hotwired.com [204.62.132.48]) by wired.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16330; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:29:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:29:46 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: harli@get.hotwired.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: harli@hotwired.com (m e r i = harli@) Subject: who had mixer for sale? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk A friend of mine fwd'ed this to me without the email address and I'm very interested... has this mixer been sold? Can LiQuiD please email me? I have the cash and I'm ready to spend it... thank you, Meri :-) > _LiQuiD_ wrote: > > > > My friend Alan & I have a > > NuMark 6-Channel Mixer thats FOR SALE!!! > > Its in Great Condition, > > and practically new... > > > > we dont need it though, and are asking $400 > > please reply via email personally > > ........................................... M e r i H a r l i Photo Researcher H o t W i r e d ........................................... * Confusion can be a refreshing change. * From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 11:35:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA20651; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:35:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA20632; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:35:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA26417; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:35:29 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612031935.LAA26417@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Categorizations... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:35:28 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Funny how when I mentioned that "..many of you white males" used derrogatory code words to describe people, you were offended. Why? I mean, the list is predominantly white and male. I of course do not resort to code words to describe who I am talking about, but that is not the point. The point is many on this list use the words of division to describe those people who are differnt than they. We use the terms us and them, at first. Then it just degrades from that point into devisive name calling, caode words, nonsense. >From our history together, as party goers/ravers/list history we know what words will get a response. We KNOW that we have gone round after round about the word gangstah, to the point where people try to re-define it as attitude moreso than a particular look or color. I guess one must consider, before using such speech, where the words originate from (vocally). Example; I as an African-American male can be in the compnay of my bretheren (i.e. other blakc males), and use the term n****r w/o fear of reprisal (pretty much). But if I were a white male, would the same rules apply. If I am a gay male and am talking to my brtheren (i.e other gay males), and say "Shit, I am not going to that damn party, I'm sick of all those f*gs." is it the same as if I were a straight male and say the same words? And that is what I mean. Just because YOU have redfined a term does not mean that it has any less impact in the real world. And in certain neighborhoods, talkin all that gangstah stuff will get your ass kicked. Just for talking noise. I would love to drop Adder off into a veryu, very rough place, and have him describe to real hoodz what the term gangstah meant to him. It would be like me going to Widowee, MS to explain my bi-racial son and present Caucasian girlfriend. In other words, many aren't hearing it. I try to be careful about people's feelings. SOmething that has gone out of style. Being PC is a very bad thing (next time LOOK at who says PC is a bad thing...) to many people. To me such arguments are just arguments to be rude, impolite, and insensitive to others. In the real world, such insensitivity can get you killed.. Or at least hurt. I think we all should watch what we say. I think we all should care about how our message is perceived. I think we all should be sensitive to the likes and dislikes of others. I think we all should try to avoid conflict where possible, but if it is not possible to agree to disagree, and strive to be respectful of each others boundaries. Calling people names is not the answer. For every gangstah, I will show you a good for nothing bridge-and-tunnel fuck. For every nigger, a redneck chickshit whitebread motherfucker. For every babe, betty, bitch, a stoopid hunk, dumb jock, plain dog. When will we gorw up and stop the madness. When can we start to realte to each other instead of labelling. When will we ever celibrate the diversity of life, versus the current cultural war for everyone to be assimilated into one massive glob of, er "culture". When will many of you, in your PLURist leanings an beliefs start to buck up when someone slams someone else for being different. What is PLUR w/o practice and purpose. Look, I have been to more parties than lany on this list. I have partied for years and friggin years on end. Parties were alot more fun back in the day when it was new, and relatively not part of the mass culture (which dance culture now is). Parties used to have all kinds of motherfuckers in 'em. Gay goyz w/o shirts, straight men chasing skirts, young girls on the move, other ladies cathchin' a groove, Gay women in effect, others didn't have lables yet, we all danced in fun, usually long after the setting sun. Let's now get our headz out of the collective toilet. There is no more room for bigotry or hatred here or anywhere else. Stop the madness. It starts with you. Out & Audi from this name calling, John DJ Chief Boot Knocka From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 11:40:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA21113; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:40:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA21103; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BBE10F.85EF9290@misnt1.rely.com>; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:45:47 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'sfraves'" Subject: RE: UN-COOL Perspectives Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:45:37 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ok, I've been sucked (or, er, suckered?) into this debate. What is wrong with Wyld 107? What is wrong about the inevitable merging with hip hop and dance (in which we call hi-energy). This hoods, and gansta stuff is really amusing, but at the same time disheartening..... The sad truth is that we (i.e. people) DO look at face value, we DO prejudge and make assumptions. The difference is that some of us realize this, and try to overcome. Others just spout off, categorize, and label. Who's "Cool" and "Uncool"... I've ran with people who my "friends" disagree with, but the people I run with @ that time are my "friends" as well. I've hung with skinheads, b-boys, rastas, and computer geeks. Wandered the streets of Haight one hour and "blunting" in EPA the next, dropping by Cupertino and engaging in a net version of Marathon for 3 more hours, stopping by @ Hayward kickin' it at an illegal "drag" and watching CRX's racing against Nissans and ending up @ a rave by 12:15AM. Because I choose to associate with these kinds of people makes me them... No. Because I don't see people as skinheads, gangstas,nerds whatever... I see them as people. All I can do is hope that, "more people of the world can be like that." -Adam >---------- >From: Jason Green >Subject: Re: UN-COOL WORLD PRODUCTIONS > >Jon"dabomb" wrote: >>Dude, dont spread shit like that around! Rape, Fuck you. thats not cool.( no >>pun intended) I have never gone to one of their big productions, but I can >>assure that what you say is not true. This happenes every time,. nobody >>can change that, but dont say harsh words when you can't back them up with >>the truth. >>Peace, >>Jonathan > >I think if you read what plur@juno.com wrote, you might consider taking >your foot out of your mouth: > >>"And i don't beleive that people get raped at every cool world. But i do >>know >that my >>friend knows a girl who got raped by a bunch of gangas on E. As far as >>all the other stuff. I can back it up any day because it happened to me..." > >Fist off, you (Jon"dabomb") have never even *been* to one of thier >"parties," so where do you get off spouting off such strong opinions? >Maybe you should get some actual *facts* to back up your mindless, >uninformed blabbering, huh? I, nor others cannot see one single hint >of a reason to defend them (Cool World) in any way - why do you? >Everything that has been said against them is true and then some. >*Think before you speak*, and avoid unsightly, foot-in-mouth moments - >for your own good and others. >On a final note, I again quote the wise, and informed words of >plur@juno.com: > >>P.S. For heavens sakes people, think about it. Angelina and Rough Neck >>are preforming live their! They play their songs on WILD 107.7! > >Anybody that has a 107.7 preset on any piece of stereo equipment need not >reply or comment!!!!! Immediately disqualified! :-) >*Happy* trails... (no guns or raping) >_jason_ > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 11:47:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA21731; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA21693; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:47:12 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23709; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:46:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 11:46:55 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: blkadder@value.net To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E In-Reply-To: <199612031910.LAA23119@netcom20.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > Sir, > > as much as you would have liked me to, I did NOt categorize all white > males. I said many white males on this list. Many is not ALL. Please > re-read. Then we can re-read the archives to see where allt his gangstah > talk started. I gurantee it was not started by either Geoff or I (from > what I know the ONLY two black males on this hokey-doke anyway). I would > also like to point out that this cetgorization has been leveled against > people of color for all types of reasons. I think your dad is an ex-cop, > ask him how people were categorized for easy pick-up and removal. So John, what you are saying is that the only people on this list qualified to speak on the subject of "gangstahs" and not be racist are yourself or Geoff? > In any case, I am categorizing the behaviour of many on this list as > completely reprehensible and racist. In this thread, or all the recent discusssion about "ganstahs" who, besides yourself has mentioned color in any of their comments? > Sorry, but I like to call a spade a spade. No, what you are doing is attempting to silence a wide group of people by accusing them of racism, where none exists. > You and others would like to mask this truth by saying that > such speech is to categorize behvaiour and not color. Really? Yes. > And so plkease, educate me and others, who may know some real > gangstahs, what does a gangstah act like? What is gangstah attitude? > Have you ever met a gangstah (traditional)? Does being jumped by 10 people displaying colors count? As far as their attitudes displayed, I think the comments mentioned in Larry's survey pretty much sum it up. > > > Enough of you not understanding other peoples feelings. > > > > Look in the mirror John. > > > > I have and am dman happy at what I see. Please check yourself Adder. Who mentioned white males John? Who is accusing whom of racism John? > > > A while back, I believe Larry Ching went to the trouble and did a little > > survey about the use of the word "gangsta" to describe certain > > individuals. The results confirmed my understanding and use of the word: > > "gangsta" is about attitude and not color. > > > > It is only a color issue because you wish it to be one. > > It is only a color issue becuase it has always been a color issue. Odd, Larry's informal survey did not show this. Perhaps you are out of touch with the context with which the term is used on this list. > I will not cry for your whiteness, nor will I bash you for it. But if > you do like to use the term gangstah so much, I just might lable you a > racist. I am ambivalant about the term, because it is not a racist term. *YOU* have taken it as such. > But then, white males have been labelling things for centuries. So what's this about not bashing people for their whiteness? You may label me a racist John, but who has made this a racial issue when their was never any mention of color? Who has made comments about a group of people based on their color? Just you John, just you. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 12:01:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA23266; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:01:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA23251; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:01:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id MAA10484; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:00:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:00:59 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: ess kay three cc: SF Raves Subject: (once again) clothing and attitude In-Reply-To: <31B01D10.3041@vax.sonoma.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear SFRavefriends, I feel Lara's right that it's attitude, not clothing -- that's why I try to avoid making negative judgements about people because of their dress styles when I post. But at the same time, it needs to be said that there can be a strong correlation between dress and behavior. For example, do you think a party is really going to go off if everyone has on 3-piece suits and cocktail dresses? I think the reason people often post about stuff like Adidas is because this is something visible that they can point to. Attitude and vibe can be hard things to convey. If someone just says that the vibe at a party was bad, it's not as descriptive or informative as if they mention what many people were wearing, especially if they think this contributed to the negative energy, or that the dress style in question is frequently associated with parties lacking vibe and that readers will understand this. Admittedly it's a fine line between telling it like it is and being needlessly judgemental and negative about other people yourself. But I think it's useful to have as much info about an event as possible, and if people dip into the realm of stereotyping from time to time, I think nevertheless we can all differentiate between fact and opinion in these posts and make up our minds for ourselves. My computer tells me that on Sat, 1 Jun 1996, ess kay three shared: > So I guess that everyone who wears Adidas is a gangsta. > And does alot of drugs. > And disses people who don't seem to be cool enough. > Or something. > So does that mean that I'm a gangsta when I decide to wear an Adidas > jacket or shirt? And all my H20 polo player and swimmer friends who wear > the Adidas sandals or have Adidas shit, they're all druggie gangstas > too? > > Clothes don't make the person, the *person* does. At the risk of quoting > an increasingly pathetic advertisement, as the Sprite commercial goes, > "Image is nothing, thirst is everything, obey your thirst." What people > look like or dress like is NOTHING. > I've been in a "shitty space filled with a bunch of "A***** wearin > gangstas" (and OTHER rude types) and it isn't drugs that can save your > mood, it's your attitude. I mean you can be on DRUGS in a bad scene and > have an even WORSE time. It's all in how you approach the whole night. > If you go into a huge place with bad vibes you can say (soberly *or* > high) "this sucks, I'm gonna have a shitty time, this fucking sucks! I'm > gonna pop a few pills/tabs" and bitch and moan about it all night and > have a bad time, or you can say "yea, the vibe's pretty nasty here, but > i think i can pretty much ignore it and appreciate the music and > whatever positive people there are around me" and have a not-so-bad if > not great time. I heard alot of people saying "yea the vibe was shitty > at _be here now_ but i had a GREAT time." It's all in the attitude, it's > not in the drug. Raving *can* be appreciated sober. Hell some of the > most dedicated ravers I know are straightedge! > > > So if the vibe isn't all that great, try to focus on the music. And if > you're hungry for an rEfrEshmEnt, go for it. But if you're taking it to > avoid the bad vibes, you might end up having a worse time than you would > have if you were sober. I kinda know from experience (can we say ground > zero?). It's a personal choice. Stop slammin Adidas, i, and many others > have been wearing it since they were kiddies, or since they started a > sport, or just because they think it's a pretty dope label. I mean come > on, it's a timeless classic. I love it.. > But then, that's just me... > > Smiles.. > LAra > -- > (sk3) > [ J U N G L I S T ] > . . . wishing on a star . . . > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 12:06:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA23774; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA23762; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:06:13 -0800 (PST) From: DNKSMKR@aol.com Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA23785 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:05:36 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:05:36 -0500 Message-ID: <961203150535_1718168314@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Fwd: Categorizations... Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Categorizations... Date: 96-12-03 15:02:13 EST From: DNKSMKR To: jsl@netcom.com I have been reading on this subject for a while and now I am pissed off. First off...ther e are some of us who have been partying for just as long now and I am white but I don't care. When you start saying white males...you are categorizing...right? Then why must you talk so much shit about grouping....I am the least rascist person you will meet. What I don't understand is why is this all being called false..Don't people in terms group themselves???Don't you remember high school? Of course there is a reason for everything but what I don't understand is why criticisize on the wrongdoings of others when you jump in the boat yourself? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 12:08:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA24064; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:08:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA24060; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:08:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA03774 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:08:05 -0800 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199612032008.MAA03774@trix.cisco.com> Subject: NRR: News article on drugs To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:08:04 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Scientists Stumble Onto Potential New Class of Drugs Researchers searching for a compound that could block the addictive effects of cocaine may have overturned an unwritten law of neurological drug design. For many years, scientists have assumed that drugs designed to target the brain have to contain nitrogen, because almost all molecules known to transmit signals between brain cells contain the element. Now neuroscientist Bertha Madras of Harvard Medical School in Boston and synthetic chemist Peter Meltzer of Organix Inc. in Woburn, Massachusetts, and their colleagues have found that compounds in which the traditional nitrogen is replaced with oxygen can bind to the same brain receptors as does cocaine--and the nitrogen-based prescription drugs Ritalin and Prozac, prescribed for hyperactivity and depression. The work, described in the December issue of Synapse, not only broadens the possibilities for finding new compounds effective in the brain, says Madras, but it may also help scientists better understand how neurotransmitters--the compounds that carry brain signals--bind to their targets. According to Ivy Caroll, a medicinal chemist at Research Triangle Institute in North Carolina, the finding suggests that combinatorial chemists--who assay thousands of compounds at once looking for useful drugs--should "take another look at non-nitrogen-containing compounds." Madras and Meltzer happened on their discovery while trying to design a compound that would bind to brain molecules called transporters, which absorb and recycle neurotransmitters like dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine. Cocaine binds tightly to the dopamine transporter, blocking the reuptake of dopamine and enhancing the signals it sends. A compound that bound more loosely, they thought, might prevent cocaine from blocking the transporter but still allow it to take up dopamine. And because the positive electric charge that nitrogen bears was thought to be crucial to tight binding, Madras and Meltzer decided to try oxygen-containing compounds. To their surprise, however, they found in test-tube experiments that some of their "nonamines" blocked the transporter even more strongly than did nitrogen-based counterparts. The finding means that the compounds won't help against cocaine addiction. But it may reveal a new mechanism by which compounds bind to neurotransmitter receptors, says Caroll. And it suggests, says Madras, that a whole realm of brain chemistry, including new classes of oxygen-containing neurotransmitters, may be awaiting discovery. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 12:11:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA24409; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:11:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA24405; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:11:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA03832 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:11:24 -0800 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199612032011.MAA03832@trix.cisco.com> Subject: NRR: Another article To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:11:23 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk A Chink in the Brain's Defenses The blood-brain barrier, a bastion against harmful chemicals and microbes, may be a lot more permeable than researchers have thought. Scientists have found that in mice, at least, the barrier weakens during emotional stress. The blood-brain barrier is a layer of tightly packed endothelial cells and connective cells called astrocytes that strictly regulates the flow of chemicals in and out of the brain. Researchers at Hebrew University in Jerusalem and the Israeli Defense Force's Medical Corps have found that a variety of chemicals penetrate the mouse blood-brain barrier much more readily when the mice are forced to tread water, a condition that induces stress. For instance, Evan's blue, a dye that stains the cellular protein albumin, penetrates the brain 10 times more efficiently in stressed mice than in unstressed mice. According to the report, in the December issue of Nature Medicine, increased blood flow in the stressed mice would account for only a fraction of the increase in permeability. "It's intriguing," says Rajesh Kalaria, a neurologist at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. Scientists have noted that the blood-brain barrier is weakened in some diseases such as epilepsy or in cases of dementia, he says, but the stress findings are novel. The study was spurred by findings in Gulf War veterans suggesting that they had suffered short-term neurological problems, such as insomnia and nervousness, after taking the anti-nerve-gas agent pyridostigmine. According to Hermona Soreq, the head of Hebrew University's Institute of Life Sciences and a study author, the mouse studies show that "Pyridostigmine penetrates the brain rather effectively under stress conditions." But Soreq says that the study was not aimed at probing the nature of Gulf War syndrome. The findings raise questions about the proper dosage of drugs that target the brain. "When you're under stress, drugs can have greater potency," says Kalaria. Stress, he says, "may compound the effect" of psychoactive drugs. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 12:25:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA25721; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:25:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA25691; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:25:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.178.41.41] ([205.178.41.41]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with ESMTP id MAA28675 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:23:19 -0800 X-Sender: branka@pop.sirius.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199612031935.LAA26417@netcom20.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:24:24 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: *B* Subject: Gangsters Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Why am I getting involved in this? I have no idea - probably bored and work and maybe feeling quilty that I call some people gangsters... The post that started all of this (I don't know who wrote it) >>> > fun at a party in a shitty space filled with a bunch of A***** wearing >>> > gangstas :) was just a joke (at least I think). There is a :) at the end - people cheer up, don't take stuff too seriously :P. So, here is a little background - I grew up in Croatia, where there is only one race. The very, very few non Caucasian people that are there are African students (very rare), Asians are even smaller minority, and basketball players that end up at Student Olympics :). But we have gangsters as well (maybe we just picked up a word and gave it a different meaning) and none of them are black. So, for me a word gangster has nothing to do with race. John, I feel bad that that's the way you feel about it, because I know more people who are my friends who refer to gangsters as Larry described it. And most of those people are white :). So, my point is that the word is very relative, and it can have different meanings to different people. It is too bad that the word gets some people upset (it has never, ever been my intention to classify it as a racist word), while others use it as a description of somebody's style. There are a lot of women that get upset when they are called girls or chicks, and maybe because I am not an American (English is not my first language) I use those words more than word women. I don't feel like it has any bad meaning in it, but sometimes some "women" look at me like I shouldn't be saying that. Sometimes I try to explain myself, but sometimes there is no hope and I am classified and anti-feminist, should-be-a-male blah, blah, blah... Maybe all of us should try to look at words (phrases etc.) from different prospective and realize why people choose to use them, rather than getting in flame wars. Understanding each other is what will make us grow stronger and become better people so why don't we give it a shot. I know I am willing to try. Practising PLUR is a little bit more than just signing the end of e-mail with it, and it seems to me that some people just can't grasp that really well. My 2 kuna's, *B* From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 12:41:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA27528; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:41:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA27500; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:40:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id MAA07891; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:40:39 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id MAA00453; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:40:39 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:40:38 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Gangsta's To: sfraves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all! =) Just some more stuff; I've been involved in a lot of parties and the only time I had to throw anybody out of a party was when some gangsta's started a fight on the dance floor. They were really drunk and me and some other workers split them up. We were ready to let things slide but one of the more drunken ones (the one I was dealing with) just couldn't get it into his head to stop fighting. So I threw him and five of his buddy's out. (no fighting at my parties around my equipment!) I happily called these folks gangsta's for a couple of reason's. They called themselves a gang, acted as a group of thugs and all wore similar clothing (colours). They were also white. peas, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 13:14:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA00737; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mas.atext.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA00726; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:14:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from johnk.atext.com ([198.3.97.157]) by mas.atext.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA20900; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:19:27 -0800 Message-ID: <32A49894.4A1C@excite.com> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 13:16:04 -0800 From: John Kawamoto Organization: Excite, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pablo Beck CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Non-electronic music? References: <1.5.4.32.19961203082830.006b9e58@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Pablo Beck wrote: > Hummm... I wonder/think I would probably put ENYA in the > electronic-type music? There was a white label techno remix a couple months back of the song where Enya is singing "Sail away" or something like that... Peace, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 13:20:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA01257; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:20:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA01219; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:19:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.136.107] (mg136-107.ricochet.net [204.179.136.107]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07754 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:19:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612032119.NAA07754@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: Just Say What? Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 13:25:16 -0800 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: "SFRaves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Anybody pick up the December 9th issue of Time? :-) :-) :-) deeje -------------------------------------------------------------------------- deeje cooley Journeyman Software -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 13:20:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA01313; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mom.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA01305; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from stuff (chum-9.ppp.hooked.net [206.80.8.9]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA20202; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:20:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612032120.NAA20202@mom.hooked.net> From: "Mr nStuff" To: "Randy C Cone" Cc: Subject: Re: Gangsta's Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:22:32 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I am wondering. Is this the group of people, one of which is a Dj that spins at HiFi (Julius Papp)? There all white, and they usually wear the same colors. (Desert storm colors) They seem cool, although they don't seem to like me much when there drunk.. =]:. .. Jeff P.S. RavErs. Anyone looking for new insured SL-1200's with life time free allignment, and life time advanced replacement insurance for a few spare bucks. The Good Guys in Hayward have them for alittle over five bills. Great way to establish sum credit.. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 13:31:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA02418; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:31:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA02406; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:31:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:28:56 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA12585; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:28:56 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: Re: Gangsters Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Getting to the word "Gangsta".....remember the old TV shows where you heard the word gangster and thought of Bonnie and Clyde days, Al Caponne, tommy guns and the Untouchables. You take away the 'ER' and replace it with an "a" to get Gangsta. Which is most commonly used in the term Gangsta Rap. Which is mostly sang by male African-American. So when people use the term "Gangsta" some may automaticly think that African-Americans are having a finger being pointed at them. I think that by using the term "Gangsta", John is automaticly thinking that people are talking about African-American's because of the labeling of what I mentioned above. I'm just asumming these thoughts, sense I don't know what John is thinking. These are all just thoughts, so don't take anything personnal and if I'm wrong on these thought please let me know, I want to understand why you are thinking the way you do. John, please tell us how you would describe the type of people that some of the people on the this are labeling as "Gangsta". I would describe a "Gangsta" as...... A group of usually males, that hang together looking all big and bad with an attidude to match. Usually has some kind of weapon. Wearing the latest fashion to show that they may have money and/or wear the same style of clothes in the group to show they have the numbers and don't screw with them. They pick fights to usually show they are big and bad and can kick anyones butt. By acting that way I guess they think women will like them more. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. I didn't describe a race because I've seen many groups of people like I mentioned that were of different races. There is no one race that fits under that description. There can be one person from every single race in that group and I'd consider everyone of the a Gangsta. Maybe if we knew what your definition of these type of people are, we can all come to an understanding of how you feel. I hope I can speak for most if not all the people here when I say that. When people on this list use the term Gangsta, there not refering to anything specific, there refering to the type of people I mentioned before. A group of people, acting and behaving in a ruthless way to get what they want by any means. Wearing the latest fasion or the same style of clothes to be seperated and notice by others as people not to miss with. Big, bad bully gun and knife carrying thugs that want to start sh%t to make them look cool. I hope this made sense and I didn't offend anyone. Like a always say, I think faster then I type and sometimes it comes out wrong, but I think I made myself clear. I hope. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 13:38:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA03260; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:38:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA03251; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:38:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.253.162.77] (wayne.eff.org [204.253.162.77]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA04424 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:07:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199612031916.LAA81626@scv3.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:04:27 -0800 To: "sfraves" From: "Oracle of Truth" Subject: Re: Un-Cool world Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Cool World Productions are exactly the type of big, "clearcutting" parties that caused the scene to implode in late 92 and early 93. Exactly. It's all about a really big party with the *sole* purpose of making $$$ over creating a vibe or anything else that the scene is about. If there are too many Cool World type parties, the scene will once again implode, leaving a fragmented and disillusioned community to pick up the pieces, once again. If that happens, how may years will it take for another recovery? Remember, if the scene implodes, it doesn't just mean the end of the big parties. It means that the electornic music movement will once again be set back, there will be less enthusiasm for buying music, gear, throwing parties, etc. on all levels. That means that your favorite budding artists, labels, stores, etc. could perish due to an industry-wide (community-wide) backlash for "this crappy rave culture" once again. But Cool World and their uncaring, exploitive fucked up ilk would have made their buck, so it's obvoiusly good for them. I praise them on their entreprenurial efforts, but it definitely shows they are about PROMOTING their party to MAKE MONEY, and little else. To prove my point that we're alreay heading down the slippery slope to a recap of 1993's over-hyped and over-marketed large crappy scene destroying party oblivion, I have but one word: "UBIQUITOUS" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 13:52:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA04381; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:52:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA04347; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:52:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy1.ba.best.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA29493; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:49:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:49:08 -0800 (PST) From: SixFtUndr To: Aryck cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: SPACECHILDREN/TRIBAL FUNK-- WILL NOT BE COOL!!! In-Reply-To: <9612010400.AA08262@heald.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk you were right. On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Aryck wrote: > Just so everyone knows, it is at Homebase wherehouse, or at least, I > don't know of any home depot off hegenburger. And $25 is waaaaaaaay too much > to spend for a sweaty ass funky, greasy, smelly, humid, barely able to > breathe (or walk without slipping) gangster party which it will be. That > wherehouse sucks, and with the amount of people it will suck even more. > You can only make a party as big as the space it's taking place in, > and the space isn't too big. Every room will be overcrowded, someone will > probably slip and fall on their butt. And you will go home feeling like crap. > > My advise is, if you have E, get lots more, eat most of it a half > hour before you get to homebase, and keep it comin as it wears off. To me, > that's the only way you could see the place as cool. If you're sober, you'll > be hatin life. > > Last time I was there, half of the gangsters were walkin around with > 40's, the other half were hitting on my friends. > > Decide for yourself. I live here, and I know the dumbasses who'll go there > and get all drunk. . . (there not my friends though). > > SMILE:) > > Aryck > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 14:15:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA06348; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:15:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from inet-user-gw-1.us.oracle.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA06323; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:15:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com by inet-user-gw-1.us.oracle.com with ESMTP (8.6.12/37.7) id OAA02309; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:12:21 -0800 Received: by mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com (8.7.5/37.9) id OAA08294; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:09:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612032209.OAA08294@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Date: 03 Dec 96 12:18:27 -0800 From: "LRITTING.US.ORACLE.COM" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Categorizations (NRR) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.0.4.0.25) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Just remember... The things we hate most about others are the things that we hate most about ourselves. Regards, Lucas Ritting ** Futuaris Non Irresus Ridobis ** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 14:22:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA07222; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:22:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from inet-user-gw-1.us.oracle.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA07218; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:22:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com by inet-user-gw-1.us.oracle.com with ESMTP (8.6.12/37.7) id OAA19692; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:20:07 -0800 Received: by mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com (8.7.5/37.9) id OAA10347; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:15:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612032215.OAA10347@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Date: 03 Dec 96 12:46:04 -0800 From: "LRITTING.US.ORACLE.COM" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Flames. (NRR) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.0.4.0.25) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I think we all just need to step back for a second, and stop jumping down each others throats. I'm sure everyone else on this list does not appreciate the animosities that keep cropping up here. We need to remember to take statements with a grain of salt. People on this list come from many, many different backgrounds, and it is hardly fair to expect everyone else around you to have come to the same conclusions. Let's all remember why we gather as a collective like this. It's not just the music. We all have mixes at home. It's the company that brings us together. Recognize and celebrate our differences, and then realize how trivial they are. PLUR. Regards, Lucas Ritting ** Futuaris Non Irresus Ridobis ** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 14:26:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA07658; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:26:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA07649; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:26:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy1.ba.best.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA18558 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:25:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:25:30 -0800 (PST) From: Dan To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Where to get lightsticks? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Where can I get lightsticks? Anyone have a business/location? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 14:48:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA10196; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:48:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-e2b.gnn.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA10178; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:47:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from 70-164.client.gnn.com. (70-106.client.gnn.com [205.188.70.106]) by mail-e2b.gnn.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/GNN-1.0.7) with SMTP id RAA23925 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:47:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199612032247.RAA23925@mail-e2b.gnn.com> X-Mailer: GNNmessenger 1.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 14:41:31 From: rinc@gnn.com (Lawrence Rincon) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: how sweet it is to be loved by you Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Im learning so much about gangsta apparently all races, religions, and genders can be a gangsta... isnt that kinda nice even a hamsta' can be a gangsta love l (..out of my habitrail cage) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 15:23:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA13860; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA13851; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:23:07 -0800 (PST) From: czefir@sprynet.com Received: from m9.sprynet.com (m9.sprynet.com [165.121.1.209]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA03894 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:24:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from [199.174.191.38] (ad62-038.compuserve.com [199.174.191.38]) by m9.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA29433 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:22:54 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:22:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199612032322.PAA29433@m9.sprynet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: re: sober raving thank yous To: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: SPRY Mail Version: 04.00.06.21 Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, Thankyou to all who responded to my sober raving post. I am taking it all into consideration and trying to figure out what I'll try first. I figure eating, taking everything at the same time would not be the most wonderful idea. and, to everyone who wished me luck at my FIDM (Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising) interview, thank you, I did get accepted and will start in July!! later all ya beautiful humans (and whatever else reads this list :) Megan Czefir From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 15:47:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA16033; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:47:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA16018; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.32.192.224] (ch051.Chance.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.192.224]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA28734; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:43:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:43:12 -0800 To: Paul McKernan , Stephanie Ginsberg , Susan Peacey , jfhmsh@msn.com, Shannon Foster , Willow Selzer , Todd Smith , Paul Anthony Rose , Barbara Herrick , SF Raves From: David Ginsberg Subject: Hawaii Court: Lesbian & Gay Couples Should Be Allowed To Marry Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This just came in...ocassionally in the darkest moments a ray of hope appears...I feel very good about this! Much love to all of you!!! -David LAMBDA LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATION FUND NEWS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Tuesday, December 3, 1996 Contact: Peg Byron 212-995-9475, 800-314-5149 pager Evan Wolfson 212-995-8986 Dan Foley 808-526-9500 Hawaii Court: Lesbian & Gay Couples Should Be Allowed To Marry Lambda Wins Historic Ruling Against Discrimination in Civil Marriage Law (HONOLULU & NEW YORK, December 3, 1996) For the first time in U.S. history a state court ruled Tuesday that civil marriage law cannot discriminate against lesbian and gay couples. A Hawaii court ruled in the case brought by Honolulu civil rights lawyer Dan Foley and Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund on behalf of three lesbian and gay couples. "This is a historic moment for lesbians and gay men," said Lambda Marriage Project Director Evan Wolfson, who with Foley is co-counsel in the case, Baehr v. Miike, tried in Honolulu this fall. "When required at our trial to justify its discriminatory marriage law, the government couldn't do it. The court today agreed that there is no compelling or logical reason for discriminating against lesbian and gay couples," Wolfson said. Speaking from Lambda's New York headquarters, Wolfson said, "This case made a major breakthrough toward ending second-class status for gay families. This decision marks the beginning of the end to sex discrimination in marriage." Lambda is spearheading a national movement to end sex discrimination in civil marriage, and to protect lesbian and gay families. >From Honolulu, Foley, who litigated Baehr v. Miike from its earliest stages, said, "Judge Kevin Chang made the only decision that he could, given the evidence in this case. This decision is not only historic, but of vital personal consequence to the couples who want to get married." Foley added, "Now that the court has ruled, the state should immediately issue civil marriage licenses to the couples in this case." Foley, through the Hawaii Equal Rights Marriage Project, and Wolfson presented the case for two lesbian couples and one gay male couple seeking civil marriage licenses in Hawaii. The three couples, Ninia Baehr and Genora Dancel, Pat Lagon and Joseph Melillo, and Antoinette Pregil and Tammy Rodrigues were denied marriage licenses by the state Department of Health in late 1990. In 1991, they jointly filed a lawsuit alleging the denial was unconstitutional and eventually the case was appealed to the Hawaii Supreme Court. In 1993, the state Supreme Court ruled that, under Hawaii's Constitution, allowing civil marriage licenses only for opposite-sex couples and not for same-sex couples is sex discrimination. The court ordered the state to show what "compelling" interest justifies such discrimination in civil marriage. Judge Chang of the First Circuit Court of Hawaii heard the case at a nine-day, bench trial, September 10-20. Deputy state Attorney General Rich Eichor argued on behalf of Director Lawrence Miike of the state Department of Health, which has jurisdiction over marriage licenses. Lambda Executive Director Kevin Cathcart said, "This victory is important progress for the civil rights of lesbians and men in Hawaii and throughout the country. Just as the legal protections and recognition that come with civil marriage should be available to everyone regardless of race, religion, and ethnicity, they should be available to everyone regardless of sex or sexual orientation." Cathcart added, "Just a generation ago, for example, courts ended state discrimination against marriages between people of different races. Today's ruling takes a similar step toward ending state discrimination against the marriages of lesbian and gay couples." Two of the plaintiffs in the landmark case, Ninia Baehr and Genora Dancel, who now live in Baltimore, quickly stated their exuberance with the ruling. "Many people around the country helped break through this wall of discrimination. While we face much more work ahead to secure this right nationally, Ninia and I are deeply honored to be part of today's victory," Dancel said. "Our love made it possible for me and Genora to get through this long legal fight," Baehr said. "I'm looking forward to our love getting us to our wedding on a mountain slope in Maui," she said. Lambda Legal Director Beatrice Dohrn said. "Without civil marriage, gay couples often face painful, difficult situations, like being barred from the hospital bedside of a partner in a medical emergency. Lesbian and gay couples have had no access to the legal, economic, and practical protections of civil marriage that non-gay couples can take for granted." Other protections withheld from gay couples include access to family health coverage, immigration, divorce, and inheritance rights. Lesbians and gay men also are denied protection for their children and may lose custody when their partner dies. Dohrn said, "Our society is structured so that hundreds of legal obligations and protections are available only through civil marriage. It's time the law stopped saying no' to those who want and need to say I do.' The choice of whether or not two people get married belongs to the couple, not the state." The prospect of ending marriage discrimination against same-sex couples has fueled recent backlash campaigns by the religious right to promote state and federal anti-marriage legislation like the federal Defense of Marriage Act, Wolfson said. He noted that DOMA does not ban marriages for gay couples but would discriminate against legally married gay couples by allowing federal protections and benefits only for heterosexual married couples. Wolfson said, "The absurdly named Defense of Marriage' Act, like the 16 state bills passed against equal marriage rights for lesbians and gay men, is unconstitutional and will be defeated. State by state, court by court, we will put an end to this illogical and cruel discrimination." Lambda is the oldest and largest legal organization dedicated to the civil rights of lesbians, gay men, and people with AIDS and HIV. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 15:54:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA16652; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:54:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from scruz.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA16639; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:54:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [165.227.109.23] by scruz.net (8.7.3/1.34) id PAA01297; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:54:14 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: anarch@mail.scruznet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:57:21 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: anarch@scruznet.com (Anarch) Subject: Re: sober raving & E Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk "Geoff White" wrote: >> From: czefir@sprynet.com >> >> I usually find myself winding down around >> 4:00 and after that cannot usually be revived unless there is some really >> kick-ass music going. Being tired beyond the point of exhaustion usually >> ruins my night so I leave when I start to feel it set in. I would like >> to be able to stay up longer... I don't know if this is very useful--I may just be lucky to have the right sort of metabolism or something--but I can't help but repeat a certain well-worn bit of advice: Just do it! (See, sportswear *does* have something to do with raving.) If you're starting to fade, you can slow down, relax a little, but focus on the music and keep moving and you *can* break through to a second wind that will easily keep you going til morning. Once that first hump is past, in fact, a lot of times I actually can't sleep without a couple of hours to wind down. Not to boast--well, ok, a little bit to boast, but mostly just to show it can be done--but I've gone out, raving and otherwise, for literally days at a time, stimulant-free. Back in May there was one weekend...Friday night was Dreamtime down in Soquel, back home in the morning to pick up supplies and a bite, then duelling soundsystems at Panther beach all afternoon, dinner in SF then over the bridge to Funky Tekno Tribe, Sunday hanging around Berkeley checking out records til it's time for Sunset down at the Marina, then finally back to SF for Spundae's Memorial Day special at 1015. And then there was the time I drove straight from here to New Hampshire...well, anyway, with some effort and practice I really think you can develop your natural stamina. And you should give it a try...you know those cycling bumper stickers that say "a better kind of high" and the sort of stuff you hear about endurance athletes and endorphins and runner's high and so on? Well, there's a lot of sanctimonious BS involved, but at root it's true: prolonged physical exertion will get you high. It's a lot subtler than, say, tripping, but very real--your pupils will dilate, objects will take on that preternatural glow and intense presence in your vision, there's lightness, tingling, acute awareness of the body, spacy thinking. Sleep deprivation helps here, too. But be careful! You might try it and...get HOOKED! You could find yourself (shudder) RAVING SOBER. Maybe we need some public service announcements on this. Anyway, besides all that, Geoff's remarks about eating right are good advice--eating well but not too heavily is essential. I hadn't thought about the veggie connection before, but while I'm not strict about it (I try to avoid strictness in anything, as a rule), I eat very little meat, particularly when going out. Carbohydrates--rice, cereal, bread--are key. If I think of it, I sometimes take a general multivitamin beforehand. Helps me feel prepared, if nothing else. And if nothing seems to work, there's no rule that says you can't nap at a party. I've done that...the noise and otherwise less-than-ideal conditions available usually make it difficult to sleep deeply no matter how tired I am, but that's good--keeps me from dropping off until the guy with the broom has to get me up. The trick of telling yourself when you'll wake up works better for me with the light, short sleep of a party than at home in bed, too. Even just dozing, half-awake, for thirty minutes or so can be refreshing. anarch@scruznet.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 15:58:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA16900; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:58:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA16865; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:57:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id SAC23078; Tue, 03 Dec 1996 18:56:42 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Where to get lightsticks? Message-ID: <19961203.155339.10926.2.plur@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-8 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 18:56:42 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I always get my Glow Sticks from Toys R Us Also any military store might have them. Or a car accessorie store might have glowsticks. -PLUR, Paul >Where can I get lightsticks? Anyone have a business/location? http://www.geocites.com/Area51/7590/rave.html From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 15:59:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA17012; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:59:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA16995; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:58:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id SAB23078; Tue, 03 Dec 1996 18:56:42 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Colds At Raves Message-ID: <19961203.155338.10926.1.plur@juno.com> References: <9611038496.AA849639637@scccstu.sccced.sccd.ctc.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 13,15,18-21 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 18:56:42 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I feel bad when someone wants water and doesn't have the money to buy it because raves are WAAAAAAAAAAy to expensive at the present moment. And alos is water for that matter! I can buy 3 bottles at Safeway for the price of one at a rave. Whats with this bullcrap. But thats now what i am here to say. I am saying that I had a cold this weekend at Be Here Now/Tribal Funk (Vibeless rave at stupid Home Base) and i didn't ask for water from anyone. I didn't have any money either. So i got like one bottle of water for the whole night. Also, I rarely E so i was fine. I told anyone who wanted water that I had a cold and they could have some if they wanted, but at least I warned them. Most people at raves still have the cold from the last rave and let people have their water without warning them and they come home with 5 differnet colds, then you can't go to school the next day cuz your sick and you miss school and you get abscences and you parents yell at you and say why are you sick. If you have a cold, please don't drink other people's waters, and if they want yours tell them your sick before they drink it. I guess the whole thing of everyone getting everyone else's cold promotes the whole thing about Unity though. Everyone has evryone's cold. Sort of Ironic in a way. -Paul http://www.geocites.com/Area51/7590/rave.html From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 15:59:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA17126; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA17008; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:58:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id SAA23078; Tue, 03 Dec 1996 18:56:42 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: UN-COOL Perspectives Message-ID: <19961203.155338.10926.0.plur@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-7,9,11,13-14,16-26,30-38,40-46 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 18:56:42 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >What is wrong with Wyld 107? What is wrong about the inevitable >merging >with hip hop and dance (in which we call hi-energy). Okay man think about wha your saying, is Wild 107 related more to clubs? or raves? Aha! I see Raves, your right. Are we ravers or clubbers, which means at a rave you hear music that is rave type music. Hip Hop Doesn't belong at a rave budy! Neither does Angelina and Roughneck! Who wants to hear, "I don' need you love love, I dont need your love no more!" and how about "Everybody wants to be somebody, everybody wants to be somebody, everybody, who you gonna be, don't you wanna be somebody!" Thats at a CLUB. A CLUB. We go to RAVES. We would like to hear RAVE MUSIC! Such as Deep, Acid, Proggressive, House Jungle (sometimes) Trance, Tribal, Industrial. etc. No one at a rave likes Proggressive Techno. The day Carlos spins Angelina or Buffy is the day I stop raving. And all that stuff about cool world, any RAVER( empahsise on RAVER part) thats been to a Cool World, (cyber fest, palnet new year, mega buzz((actually was a cool world party)), and any other future cool world) can you tell that its not a rave, its a PARTY For PARTY People. Raving is not a sexual experience. Raving is a PLUR experience. It may be hard to understand, but try to get it. And there is nothing wrong with 107 or rap or hip hop. I listen to it sometimes to. But not at a RAVE. That music belong at The Edge or Hollywodd Junction or maybe City Nights. PLUR, Paul http://www.geocites.com/Area51/7590/rave.html From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 16:01:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA17415; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:01:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from acme.sb.west.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA17309; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:01:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from marcus.technologik.com (ml00-10.ca.qnet.com [207.155.35.80]) by acme.sb.west.net (8.8.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA07703; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:56:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19961203155514.006a5cf8@mail.west.net> X-Sender: marcus@mail.west.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 beta 3 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 15:55:24 -0800 To: SixFtUndr , Aryck From: Marc Fathauer Subject: Re: SPACECHILDREN/TRIBAL FUNK-- WILL NOT BE COOL!!! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 01:49 PM 12/3/96 -0800, SixFtUndr wrote: >you were right. > > >On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Aryck wrote: > >> Just so everyone knows, it is at Homebase wherehouse, or at least, I >> don't know of any home depot off hegenburger. And $25 is waaaaaaaay too much >> to spend for a sweaty ass funky, greasy, smelly, humid, barely able to >> breathe (or walk without slipping) gangster party which it will be. That >> wherehouse sucks, and with the amount of people it will suck even more. >> You can only make a party as big as the space it's taking place in, >> and the space isn't too big. Every room will be overcrowded, someone will >> probably slip and fall on their butt. And you will go home feeling like crap. >> >> My advise is, if you have E, get lots more, eat most of it a half >> hour before you get to homebase, and keep it comin as it wears off. To me, >> that's the only way you could see the place as cool. If you're sober, you'll >> be hatin life. >> >> Last time I was there, half of the gangsters were walkin around with >> 40's, the other half were hitting on my friends. >> >> Decide for yourself. I live here, and I know the dumbasses who'll go there >> and get all drunk. . . (there not my friends though). >> >> SMILE:) >> >> Aryck >> >> That space can suck, but all of my friends and I that went to the FTT Haloween massiv there had an awesome time. If they use all the rooms they had then, that place is absolutely huge.You want a bust-free event with great DJ's - there's not many locations that I've been to North or South that can match it. People in LA have to drive 100 minutes or more to San Bernadino to get a location half as good. I was a little leary of the infamous "gangster element" but saw no problems at all. Give it a break-the latino element is far more pronounced in LA and it's rarely a big deal either place. ffff,0000,ffffmarcus@technologik.com 8080,0000,8080marcus@technologik.com 0000,0000,ffffmarcus@technologik.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 16:01:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA17432; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:01:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from elaine27.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA17301; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from senator@localhost) by elaine27.Stanford.EDU (8.8.3/8.8.3) id QAA02252; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:00:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:00:44 -0800 (PST) From: Cassandra Ann Thomas To: knucklehead cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Gangsters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I think the term "Gangsta" is African-American idenitified because it comes out of African-American street venacular-the replacing of 'er' at the ends of words with vowell. I would also argue that lots of people who use the word even when they are referring to 'gangstas' of other races are implying a wanna-be black connotation to youth of that subculture. Maybe i am misperceiving people's use of that word but that seems to me to be the implication in alot of the cases. It is a loaded word for a lot of the behavior atrributed to youth who act in this manner I think is attributed as having been derived from ghetto culture. As a person of mixed race who is black, white, and latino, i get a lot that I am not "black" becuse I do not talk street and go to Stanford and am not from the ghetto-funny since my family fought for civil rights in the political arena as media-labeled "black politicians" though they were really mixed. Nowadays, I think racism and class issues are becoming closer as certain behavior and subcultures (as in some cases before) become racially identified. For example, raving is considered by many people I know to be a white-middle class phenomenom coming out of the white-middle class phenomenom of the hippy in the 60's. Bored kids with enough money to spend on drugs and with enough societal safety nets to drop out for a while. Another example of a media construction but a construction as with gangsta that all need to be aware of when communicating thought. I just thought I would throw that thought out there since Tim's point of need for definition is a valid one. Cassandra On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, knucklehead wrote: > Getting to the word "Gangsta".....remember the old TV shows where you heard > the word gangster and thought of Bonnie and Clyde days, Al Caponne, tommy > guns and the Untouchables. > > You take away the 'ER' and replace it with an "a" to get Gangsta. Which is > most commonly used in the term Gangsta Rap. Which is mostly sang by male > African-American. So when people use the term "Gangsta" some may > automaticly think that African-Americans are having a finger being pointed > at them. > > I think that by using the term "Gangsta", John is automaticly thinking that > people are talking about African-American's because of the labeling of what > I mentioned above. I'm just asumming these thoughts, sense I don't know > what John is thinking. These are all just thoughts, so don't take anything > personnal and if I'm wrong on these thought please let me know, I want to > understand why you are thinking the way you do. > > John, please tell us how you would describe the type of people that some of > the people on the this are labeling as "Gangsta". > > I would describe a "Gangsta" as...... A group of usually males, that hang > together looking all big and bad with an attidude to match. Usually has > some kind of weapon. Wearing the latest fashion to show that they may have > money and/or wear the same style of clothes in the group to show they have > the numbers and don't screw with them. They pick fights to usually show > they are big and bad and can kick anyones butt. By acting that way I guess > they think women will like them more. I could go on, but I think you get > the picture. > > I didn't describe a race because I've seen many groups of people like I > mentioned that were of different races. There is no one race that fits > under that description. There can be one person from every single race in > that group and I'd consider everyone of the a Gangsta. > > Maybe if we knew what your definition of these type of people are, we can > all come to an understanding of how you feel. > > I hope I can speak for most if not all the people here when I say that. > When people on this list use the term Gangsta, there not refering to > anything specific, there refering to the type of people I mentioned before. > A group of people, acting and behaving in a ruthless way to get what they > want by any means. Wearing the latest fasion or the same style of clothes > to be seperated and notice by others as people not to miss with. Big, bad > bully gun and knife carrying thugs that want to start sh%t to make them > look cool. > > > > I hope this made sense and I didn't offend anyone. Like a always say, I > think faster then I type and sometimes it comes out wrong, but I think I > made myself clear. I hope. > > > Tim (knucklehead) > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 16:06:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA17906; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:06:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from bronson.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA17869; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:06:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from sanctuary.bronson.com (sanctuary.bronson.com [204.31.5.47]) by bronson.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA12153 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:02:58 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961203160617.0069a18c@gate.bronson.com> X-Sender: swade@gate.bronson.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 16:06:19 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Scott Wade Subject: DJ Equipment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Anyone know where the best places to buy professional DJ equipment in San Francisco are? I know of Zebra records (has some), but beyond that I've been unable to find any great stores with say Intimidation stuff, etc. If not in the city, the Bay Area or US mail order. I'm about to go the UK mail-order route, but find it implausible that no major DJ Equipment suppliers/stores exist here in San Francisco....let alone Mail-order US shops.....the UK Dance mags are full of stores and the like, but none of the US mags seem to even feature ads for Mail order companies.... :-( Anyone have any hints for the UK mail-order route if I end-up down that path? Thanx, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Scott Wade SWade@bronson.com " ...Imagine finding yourself on the dance floor, with all these fucking volts shooting through the amps and all these lasers fucking frying your brains... and sort of smoke everywhere..." -- Irvine Welsh - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 16:55:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA22412; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA22404; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:55:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id QAA02559; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:55:19 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612040055.QAA02559@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: What is a gangsta, gangstah... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:55:18 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Form what I have seen, from what I have heard, from what I know: A ganster is: -Someone who participates in illegal activity for profit power. -People who band together to do the above (i.e. a group). -A group of people, usually underprivildged, who join together to protect or enhance thier standing in their community by forming protective collectives, or gangs, to achieve such goals. -groups of people wh have a set of laws and a way of existence that attempts to do the aforementioned. -A group of pople who care little about life, liberty and the pursuit of anything other than their own defnination of happiness and pushing up. -living the life of felony to get by in an organized group of people. -More a matter of the colors one wears than a fashion sense (adidas is only one attribute SOME gangs have taken on...geez people). -What many on this list have yet to see, and live about it to tell. I am ONE very lucky individual indeed. Now, can someone please tell me if they've seen a ganstah at a rave? Here's another clue: Gangnstah don't pay to get into shit. They would just as well bum rush than pay. Just as well gank than pay. Just as well bust your jaw, face, teeth before you could take your eyes off of them. Gangstahs ain't, i'm sorry, are not, living double lives. They live the way they act. So, please, someone tell me, have you seen a ganstah, ganster, gangsta at a rave? And how did you know? Now if you're talking bad attitude, then shit, I am a gangstah too. When some silly ass nipple-neck jerkie comes up to me with a dumb-ass smile and tell me to "Hey man, S-M-I-L-E!", whilst his eyes are bulging out of his gourd, then the gangstah might come out of me and I might jump out of my trance and give the dirty look. Is that it? Or is it when I decide to wear my Adidias wear and stay behind the DJ booth, arms crossed, and a serious look on my face, or am I just listening and watching one of the masters rip shit up at the party? Could it just be I decided to dress younger than I normally do, starter jacket and all, and just happen to not hug anyone, or kiss, or smile, I just came tohear music, and just happen to be one of the stand-offish shy, reposed black men who RARELY go out to these hoe-downs. Or could it be that I'm a gangstah; "Hey everyone, I went to this party the other night, and I accidentally stepped on this guys shoes. He was all decked out in the gangstah look and vibed me really hard. I wish people would leave their negative 'tudes at the door. especially the gangstahs. WHy do they come to our party anyway?" My reply is usually "Why did your clumsy ass step on my feet?" What if broham had a bad toe, or maybe you were the umpteenth hucklebuck to do so, and your number was up. Maybe homes got tired of getting his shit stepped on and don't wanna be your buddy. Maybe homey came with his friends, and you ravers, or at least a small number of you, kept hitting on his girl, or the girls with him. Maybe homes is checkin shit out for the first time, just took a hit of this white shit, and is waiting for something/nothing to happen. Maybe he was just getting there when your smiling, stumbling, drooling shake-a-booty wanted to commune with him. Maybe homes wasn't down for that. Maybe people just want to be left alone. Maybe next time you see him out, you say hello before you get all stoopid, lovey slap-happy. Maybe you might want to give him a quick shout and say "Hey man, saw you last time. Did you have a good time?" say later then jet. Maybe some people take a long time to know. Maybe gangstah ain't the word for people you hardly know. Maybe we might want to stick to a more accurate description. Why? Becuase...gangsters don't go to raves. That's why... Words can be like a sword. Often it is she that weilds them that gives it the true power. That's why I can say some things you cannot. That is why others can say things that are verboten from my lips. In the end, it is about respect, and consideration of others. That's what I'm all about. Anyway, time to lock and load. There is new years coming up. I have already decided to go the limit. One of my new years resolutions is to vibe anyone who might step on my new adidas. If anyone, and I don;t care if your name IS Neils Mayer or Jack Diamond, anyone dares step on my shoes I'm a stomp a fuckin' mudhole in your ass...bitch! "And if you step on mine It'll push the button, and I'll beat you down like it ain't nothin'!" US, Ice Cube, Death Certificate Peace out all...really. And don't worry, I won't stomp ya...as long as you don't diss my sneaks. ;) Peace out, John many ;)'s From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 16:59:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA22846; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:59:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA22838; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:59:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id QAA21920; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:59:00 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id QAA10165; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:58:58 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:58:58 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Gangsta's To: Mr nStuff cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199612032120.NAA20202@mom.hooked.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Mr nStuff wrote: > I am wondering. Is this the group of people, one of which is a Dj that > spins at HiFi (Julius Papp)? > There all white, and they usually wear the same colors. (Desert storm > colors) They seem cool, although they don't seem to like me much when there > drunk.. =]:. .. Hi Jeff! =) ummmm, I don't know. I don't know where HiFi is and I'm not familiar with the Julius Papp crowd. The guys I mentioned were wearing all white. peas, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 17:01:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA23052; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:01:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from acme.sb.west.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA23042; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:01:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from marcus.technologik.com (ml00-10.ca.qnet.com [207.155.35.80]) by acme.sb.west.net (8.8.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA19998 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:57:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19961203165609.010473ac@mail.west.net> X-Sender: marcus@mail.west.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 beta 3 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 16:56:19 -0800 To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" From: Marc Fathauer Subject: An enlightened friend of mine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk With all the negativity I'm seeing on SFRaves, here's a wake up call from SoCalRaves >Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 21:22:00 -0800 (PST) >X-Sender: ejordan@popmail.csulb.edu (Unverified) >To: socal-raves@UCSD.EDU >From: ejordan@csulb.edu (Eric Jordan) >Subject: An enlightened friend of mine > >The second time I took my little brother raving [he is 15], he broght his >best friend along, whom has attended several raves with me since. My >brothers friend's >name is Brent and he is 15 as well. He has been raving for maybe all of 3 >months and I would like to share something with you all that he wrote. He >sent me a letter about a week ago that he wrote while in Science class and I >found it to be very special. The following is the letter he wrote me: > >" A Whole New World " > > " I sit quietly in my Life Science class. Wondering if anybody > understands the way we are supposed to be. When the teacher > speaks we listen and when he is not speaking a daze comes upon > us. My enthusiasm comes and goes daily. Conspicuously, I keep > to myself and nobody notices. Noticing can be an act of of > kindness or an act of negativity. Being kind is the way I try > to carry myself, because I know I will be rewarded one day. > It could be tommorow or it could be a year from now. Negative > emotions might come from eyes or they can also come from your > mouth. Either way you will end up hurting someone's feelings. > Feelings are a very precious part of a person. If ones feelings > are hurt they might carry out an act of hate, which they say > is for no particular reason. But deep down inside they know > what they have donw is wrong. For some, knowing that they have > done wrong is eating them from the inside out. For others can > just stick it in the back of their head and carry on with life. > That was a thought that has been concerning me for a few weeks. > I now sit in my room and carry on with the journal that will > make no sense to some. I make that harsh statement because few > of my friends, whom listen to my thoughts, understand them. The > ones who do understand them are my best friends. I call these > people my best friends because we can hold deep conversations > together, and know that the other person definitely understands > and agrees with your thoughts. Some say I am a follower, and > that is true. I am a follower of my best friends. We all follow > each other. This takes place because we have all bonded to an > extent that cannot be broken. We have all sat down with one > another and positively shared thoughts about what has been going > on around us at the time and in the past. This bond of trust > cannot be found anyplace or anytime. It all begins at a place in > which I would like to free, right now, of any bad names. If you > have heard anybody give this place a bad name I would be very happy > to hear that you forced the power of a smile on this person and > told them what I am about to tell you now. This is a word in which > I could go into detail about, but because of the amount of people > who have not been fortunate enough to experience the light, I will > not. Rave. This is a book within itself. If one had the time, he or > she could make a novel to share with all of you. A rave is a place > you can go. A raver is a person you can meet. If you go to a rave > you have my assurance that you will meet people of another generation. > You will see more smiles within 8 hours that you have seen in your > whole lifetime. You may accidentally bumb into one of the enchanted > children and you will receive a hug to ensure your safety. You might > wonder why all these people are so happy. And if that is the case you >obviously haven't gone in front of the speakers. These walls of > speakers give off an incredible energy the entire night. After you have >experienced the overwhelming bass in your grinning face for a few hours, > you get one of your best friends to go for a walk with you. The energy > is trying to burst through your eyes so you go back to thge speaker to > let it out. Before you know it the beautiful sun rises and the morning > comes. You don't know what took place but you want to go back. When you > wake up around 5pm, you call one of your old friends and try to explain > the glorious time you had. Nobody understands. You now see everything > differently. The nighttime stars are a sight to see. The grass in your > backyard is twice as green. Last but not least, your body is as soft as > can be. This is the conversion we all go through. If you want, it can > be a part of you. > > -Brent Thalasinas " > > >Well....that is the letter. Remember this kid is only 15 years old. He is >one of my very good friends now. Though most of his views are a little >simplistic, they still capture the essence of what this is all about. You >can tell he knows the >vibe. And I am very proud of him. > >Lots of love, >Eric Jordan >ejordan@csulb.edu > > > ffff,0000,ffffmarcus@technologik.com 8080,0000,8080marcus@technologik.com 0000,0000,ffffmarcus@technologik.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 17:14:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA24022; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:14:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA24012; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:14:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv2.apple.com (A17-128-100-120.apple.com [17.128.100.120]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA20422 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:13:10 -0800 Received: from [17.221.20.215] (campma.apple.com [17.221.20.215]) by scv2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25110 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:15:26 -0800 Message-Id: <199612040115.RAA25110@scv2.apple.com> Subject: BP>Soulstice @ Bimbo's Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 17:14:27 -0800 x-sender: camp@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "Mark D. Camp" To: "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey Ya'll Soulstice (trip-hop/house/junglish group) will be performing at Bimbo's this Thursday, Dec 5! If you havnt heard or seen these guys yet, have the person sitting next to you kick you in the butt. You are truely missing out!!! They are opening up for a French Ambient/Jungle group called "Morcheba". Please, I beg of you, do not miss this show!!! -M *______________*______________* !E.A.C! Astronout 408 SpaceLounge Electronic Artists Collective From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 17:15:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA24142; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:15:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from netro-nt1.netro-corp.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA24112; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:15:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by netro-nt1.netro-corp.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBE117.CE3AD480@netro-nt1.netro-corp.com>; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:45:04 -0800 Message-ID: From: Fred Thornton To: "'blkadder@value.net'" , "'jsl@netcom.com'" Cc: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: RE: shitty post --> sober raving & E Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:45:02 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk John, A gangstah is a ordinary person, any color at all. You might not even know it's a ganstah until he is in 6th or 7th grade. Then differences appear. He is not interested in history or science in school, does not do well in math class. Hates many of the teachers; they respond in kind. In 9th grade, he finds he can fight well, really kick others kids ass; makes him feel great. He can't name 3 branches of government, or show you were he lives on a map, but he can really bloody a kids nose. By 11th grade, he has had several major run ins with police. He hates 'pigs', funny, they seem to hate him too. He hangs with others like himself. They all hate school, they hate college (and knowledge too). By 12th grade, his future is all but sealed. Zero possibility of UC Berkley. He drops out of school in frustration. The primary mission of a gangstah is to fight. They divide the city they live in up into what they call 'turf'. ( I don't know how, I suppose by Zip code, or phone exchange.) Then the classic behavior sets in. There Zip code must be defended from kids who live in other Zip codes. I know it sounds stupid; but it is a VERY serious issue to them. The will kill or die in defending there Zip code. Don't believe me ? Check the TV news; check the Cron or SJ Merc. That is EXACTLY what happens. Over and over. Some guy from another Zip code (or whatever boundaries they have agreed upon) sitting in THERE park; that is reason to shoot somebody. All classes of people want to be identified and grouped together. Business men look like they are business men, a Catholic priest looks like a priest, a cop wears his uniform, hippies (in order to show they are all different) all dress the same, ravers, military men, Caltrans, and everybody else. You dress to show what kind of person you are; where you 'fit in'. On board a US Navy vessel; a US flag is flown. This is called the 'colors'. Displaying them is called showing your colors. It's not the flag that counts; or power business suite. It's what it stands for. Everybody knows everybody else's colors; what good would it do to fly colors if others did not know what they mean. This is common sense; and we all know and use it. You find a place to park on Mission St., get out of your car; its 22:00, your parked 3/4 block from the place your going. On one side of the street appears a bunch of bikers getting out of there bar; on the other; a number of ravers are gathering. What side of the street do you walk down to get to where you are going? You read the colors of both camps and conclude a much lower probability of engagement with ravers then bikers and proceed. You grouped; catorgized people, then acted on it. The ganstah are not interested in superposition or wave theory; they don't care about the first 1 X 10 -20 Seconds after the big bang. They only know how to hurt people. They will never invent anything; solve any world problems; or make the world a better place. They will just cost you money; as eventually they will go to jail. But skin color; nope, that has nothing to do with it John. FWT >And so >plkease, educate me and others, who may know some real gangstahs, what >does a gangstah act like? What is gangstah attitude? Have you ever met >a gangstah (traditional)? What has been your interaction with such >people and how did THEY get into OUR little scene? > >Out, >John > > >> > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 17:29:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA25267; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:29:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA25250; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.136.107] (mg136-107.ricochet.net [204.179.136.107]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA04571 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:28:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612040128.RAA04571@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: smokin e-book Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 17:34:24 -0800 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: "SFRaves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I was given this idea while in Tahoe a few weekends ago. Would anyone like to contribute to an e-book of tobacco smoking aperati? I've seen all kinds of beautiful pieces, and would love to showcase a collection online, especially homemade or customized items. Anyone interested? If so, send me a picture of your favorite item along with a brief description or anecdote. Identities will be kept confidential. Other thoughts? peace deeje -------------------------------------------------------------------------- deeje cooley Journeyman Software -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 18:04:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA28541; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:04:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA28520; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:03:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id VRP01384; Tue, 03 Dec 1996 21:02:07 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: What is a gangsta, gangstah... Message-ID: <19961203.175756.3566.0.plur@juno.com> References: <199612040055.QAA02559@netcom20.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,8-15,19-24,26-37,40-49,52-65,69-78,80-85,87, 89-98,100-112,114-115,118-120 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 21:02:07 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Okay this guys is the best example of the worst vibe in the world Read this. >Now, can someone please tell me if they've seen a ganstah at a rave? Just about every single one at the Home base Warehouse. Usually, when they have a tatoo that says "XIV" it means that they are affiliated with the Home Brothers on the Eastern Portion of our city. Or When someone makes a W letter with their fingers it is an indication that, the want water?, no that they are down for the west side. >Gangnstah don't pay to get into shit. They would just as well bum >rush >than pay. Just as well gank than pay. Just as well bust your jaw, >face, >teeth before you could take your eyes off of them. Well they payed for all the raves I have seen them at because the rent a cops had bigger guns than they did and because a police car was there. They are gangsters not stupid, they are not going to comit a felony in front of so many cops. >So, please, someone tell me, have you seen a ganstah, ganster, gangsta >at >a rave? And how did you know? I knew from his tatoos, the way he acted towards others, also because he was wearing a red bandana. >Now if you're talking bad attitude, then shit, I am a gangstah too. >When >some silly ass nipple-neck jerkie comes up to me with a dumb-ass smile > >and tell me to "Hey man, S-M-I-L-E!", whilst his eyes are bulging out >of >his gourd, then the gangstah might come out of me and I might jump out >of >my trance and give the dirty look. Is that it? No that could be anybody at a rave. That is a bad vibe, Most gangsters fall into that catagorey, because, like most ravers, they never heard of PLUR. >Or is it when I >decide >to wear my Adidias wear and stay behind the DJ booth, arms crossed, >and a >serious look on my face, or am I just listening and watching one of >the >masters rip shit up at the party? I wear adidas that doesn't mean shit! Who cares what you wear to a rave. Maybe your tired from killing all those people during the week. Thats why your arms are crossed. THIS IS WHAT HE SAIDS ABOUT RAVERS >"Hey everyone, I went to this party the other night, and I >accidentally >stepped on this guys shoes. He was all decked out in the gangstah >look >and vibed me really hard. I wish people would leave their negative >'tudes at the door. especially the gangstahs. WHy do they come to >our >party anyway?" > >My reply is usually "Why did your clumsy ass step on my feet?" Thats because there are too many people to look where your going. And if you waited a while the RAVER might turn around and say SORRY! What a concept. Why would he say sorry? Because he knows what PLUR is. He might even let you have a sticker or a hug or buy you water. >What if broham had a bad toe, or maybe you were the umpteenth >hucklebuck >to do so, and your number was up. Maybe homes got tired of getting >his >shit stepped on and don't wanna be your buddy. Maybe homey came with >his >friends, Well, then he shouldn't go to a RAVE if he cant accept that. Better yet maybe he shouldn't wear his best shoes to a rave! >and you ravers, or at least a small number of you, kept >hitting >on his girl, or the girls with him. This is really stupid, because NO RAVER ever, ever hits on any girl/guy at a rave, ever! If a girl/guy hits on a RAVER, he will usually say no thankyou. He/she doesn't like Homie girls/guys. He/She likes Ravers! > Maybe we >might >want to stick to a more accurate description. Why? >Becuase...gangsters >don't go to raves. > >That's why... Yes they do. Maybe should look around at a rave if you have ever been to one and count the ammount of gangster homie OGs there are. >Anyway, time to lock and load. There is new years coming up. I have >already decided to go the limit. One of my new years resolutions is >to >vibe anyone who might step on my new adidas. If anyone, and I don;t >care >if your name IS Neils Mayer or Jack Diamond, anyone dares step on my >shoes I'm a stomp a fuckin' mudhole in your ass...bitch! > >"And if you step on mine It'll push the button, and I'll beat you down >like it ain't nothin'!" US, Ice Cube, Death Certificate Perfect example that he doesn't belong at a rave, because he doesn't know what PLUR is. I feel sorry for this guy. I can't help him at all. I don't know why he is like this. maybe his mom beats him with a vaccum cleaner handle. Its too bad for him. -Paul http://www.geocites.com/Area51/7590/ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 18:04:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA28577; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:04:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuba.aix.calpoly.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA28555; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by tuba.aix.calpoly.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA31083; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:03:34 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:03:34 -0800 (PST) From: Austin Woffington To: I_wanna_Dance! Subject: An un-cool World (comments & ?s) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all, I thought I'd jump into this thread after reading Wayne's post. After some thinging I agree with Wayne here. I've been around for almost 4 years in the scene and now can say I've seen ups and downs in this culture. I can't compare what I know to the earlier days well because raves were so underground (from were I came from) I didn't even know about em'. Shit my first party was Freedom -on the way to a ski trip and I saw lasers in the hills, Went to investigate and here I am now-. As far as I know the first party by coolworld prod was Cyberfest in 93. This is also Feel Good right. I never went to a Feel good party because I trusted my instincts to not go. After a few big parties I noticed an increase in big parties and also an increase of new faces year after year. This is probably a result of the increased popularity in this 'alternative' culture. Alternative to clubs, alternative to bars, aternative to concerts, alternative to the norm. I found our scene through the love of music and the introduction of new people, races, and generations. The unity formed by all these people celebrating dance, music and love drew me in and changed my outlook on life in many ways. i'm grateful for the exploration of mind and culture I've done in these years. Because of this I have come to a point where I get disappointed with crews who use this culture, and capitalize on it for their own benifit. Even more so, with out conributing to the scene positively. Many crews have brought positive vibes, new music, new people, and a higher understanding of self and society. i don't see this in Feel Good and/or Cool world. I don't go to CW becuse I haven't any good stories about their parties. I haven't heard about goodtimes had at their parties and the notion of getting lost in 10,000 people who don't celebrate this unity with each other doesn't appeal to me. I have a big problem with FGE and CW promotion. I bleive for the good of our community and the scene that raves sould stay underground. It would be great if the whole world would "get it" but it won't happen in my lifetime. CW promotes on the radio, at malls, shopping centers, schools, and anywhere to get mass people to come to their parties. They promote that they are "Northern California's leading dance organization - 5 years strong" Sorry but everyone on this list knows this is false. And five years? Cyberfest was in 93 which makes that 3 years and 1 party a year doesn't make you experienced or the best. They promote sex at their parties. "Plus you never know you just might get abducted or better yet have a sexual encounter with a colorful alien! Don't worry they do practice safe sex." Ummm did someone mention rape. On their flyer they don't promote drug use but they have a bar! Don't forget they will be filming this event for future broadcast and it will be broadcast live on the internet. Plus there is a fax number so the press can get a press pass. What is this shit. i certainly don't want my face plastered all over HardCopy or the SanFran Cronical the next morning when they print howmany Od's occured over the night. Remember the last CoolWorld in Oaktown! I think Ray Vonnie of Fell Good is on this list but I haven't heard from him about this topic. Or maybe he just subs to promote his "underground" parties (Spirit) and then logs off when he's finished with the plug. I know there are many of you out there who dj, promote, contribute, and throw parties and just participate in our scene by spreading the positive vibe. Those of you I love. You are true to the scene. You will not find me at coolworld or Feel Good (Unless I decide to find out for my own experience what I've been hearing is true. And of course this will never happen unless I can get in for free.). I hope those that go have a good time but remember Cloud Factory is also throwing a party, and so is Origin. What about F&F? (I would love to get to another one!) Keep it Real! Keep it Underground! PLUR, Austin ------------------( ( ( ((0)) ) ) )----------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 18:14:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA29697; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:14:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA29686; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:14:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mayer@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id SAA18615; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:14:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199612040214.SAA18615@netcom22.netcom.com> To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" , jack@twaxx.com Subject: Re: What is a gangsta, gangstah... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Dec 96 16:55:18 PST." <199612040055.QAA02559@netcom20.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 96 18:14:44 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Anyway, time to lock and load. There is new years coming up. I have > already decided to go the limit. One of my new years resolutions is to > vibe anyone who might step on my new adidas. If anyone, and I don;t care > if your name IS Neils Mayer or Jack Diamond, anyone dares step on my > shoes I'm a stomp a fuckin' mudhole in your ass...bitch! Oh John! you just need a hug! But you've gotta get rid of those spoo-covered-worn-out-odor-eater-so-dookie-smellin-the-dog-won't-even-sniff-em addidas sneaks. Have a nice day! Take it easy! Peace! Today is the first day of the rest of your life! And remember, love means never having to wear your sari! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == == When yer swimming in a creek and an eel bites yer cheek, that's a moray!== =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 18:15:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA29746; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA29685; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:14:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [207.171.196.83] [207.171.196.83] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vV6rF-00006b-00; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:14:47 -0800 X-Sender: illumin8@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:17:48 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: illumin8@frequency-8.com (FREQUENCY 8) Subject: F-8 @ WISH Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk WEDNESDAY DEC. 4th MARS MYSTR-E at WISH 1600 Market @ Franklin 10-2am. 18^. $5. Stay Tuned In From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 18:18:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA00141; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:18:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA00132; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:18:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id SAA09914; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:18:06 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id SAA20257; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:18:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:18:04 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: What is a gangsta, gangstah... To: plur@juno.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <19961203.175756.3566.0.plur@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk John wrote; [snip] > >Now if you're talking bad attitude, then shit, I am a gangstah too. > >When > >some silly ass nipple-neck jerkie comes up to me with a dumb-ass smile > > > >and tell me to "Hey man, S-M-I-L-E!", whilst his eyes are bulging out > >of > >his gourd, then the gangstah might come out of me and I might jump out > >of > >my trance and give the dirty look. Is that it? [snip] > >if your name IS Neils Mayer or Jack Diamond, anyone dares step on my > >shoes I'm a stomp a fuckin' mudhole in your ass...bitch! > > > >"And if you step on mine It'll push the button, and I'll beat you down > >like it ain't nothin'!" US, Ice Cube, Death Certificate [snip] Jeez John. Your one sorry mutha. peas, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 18:39:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA01630; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA01625; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:39:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from 199.35.210.182 (sfo-ca5-22.ix.netcom.com [199.35.210.182]) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA28099 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:38:50 -0800 Message-ID: <32A4E689.2939@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 18:48:41 -0800 From: Dan Capriles Reply-To: c9d@ix.netcom.com Organization: Cloud Nine Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: GEEZ! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello all u beautiful ppl. I just have one small question for all of u. Why is everyone, i'm sure i'm included, so damn petty on here? When i first subscribed i was excited about this list the people and topics on here seemed soooo cool. I finally had a place to talk to people about two of the things that i love most in this world: raves and music. But, it seems, the longer i'm on here and the more i read ppl's posts the more i realize that ppl NEED to relax in this world. Let ppl be, and if u must have a flame with someone, PLEASE send it to them privately. I'm not trying to police the list, but some of this has gotten to me and made me sad about the list. Obviously these are just my opinions, but i really felt like i needed to share them with everyone. I still like the list and read about half of what's on here (down from like 90%). I would just like to see it as a happier and more unified entity. And i don't mean that everyone has to agree on everything to be unified. I just think we should all respect each other a little more. After all it's a BIG, CRUEL world out there and we should stick together. Sorry.....i didn't mean for this to get philosophical. Well........i'm pretty sure that was my $.02 for a while. Thank u for listening, Micron From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 18:44:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA02341; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:44:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA02270; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:43:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id SAA16218; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:43:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:43:16 -0800 (PST) From: Karen Hardie Subject: (nrr) HUMOR: Confucius say (fwd) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I wasn't going to forward this, except for the paragraph at the end ... i'm ever hopeful ;) pounce ---------------------------- As she lay there dozing mext to me, one voice inside my head kept saying, "Relax ... you're not the first doctor who's ever slept with one of his patients," but another kept reminding me, "Howard, you're a veterinarian." - Dick Wilson, Orlando, FL ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 12:42:54 -0800 From: Aron Schoppert (Volt Comp) To: "'nw-raves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: HUMOR: Confucius say Some of these are in poor taste. I was personally was amused by items 2 and 6. The list has been rather slow with mail today anyway, and I am too busy at work to contribute something that is actually thought provoking. Peace aron >-----Original Message----- > >Confucius say: >Man with hand in pocket feel cocky all day. >Man who stand on toilet high on pot. >It is good for girl to meet boy in park, but better for boy to park meat in >girl! >Man who jizz in cash register come into money. >Man who drop watch in toilet have shitty time. >Man who fart in church must sit in own pew. >Man who finger girl having period get caught red handed. >Man trapped in pantry have ass in jam. >Baseball wrong-man with four balls cannot walk. >Man who eat many prunes get good run for money. >Man who go to bed with itchy butt wake up with smelly finger. >Learn to masturbate-come in handy. >Woman who pounce on dead rooster go down on limp cock. >Man who buy drowned cat must pay for wet pussy. >Virgin like balloon-one prick, all gone. >This message has been sent to you for good luck in sex. The original is in a >room in Palaiseau. It has been sent around the world nine times. The sex >has now been sent to you. Hot women or men will visit you within four days >of receiving this message-provided you, in turn, send it on. This is no >joke. You will receive good sex in the mail- but no condom. Send copies to >people you think need sex. Don't send money as fate has no price. Do not >keep this message. This message must leave your hands in 96 hrs. Please send >ten copies and see what happens in four days. The chain comes from Palaiseau >and was written by R.F. , a student from a little town in France. Since the >copy must tour the world, you must make ten copies and send them to friends >and associates. After a few days, you will get a surprise. This is true, >even if you are not superstitious. Good sex, but please remember: 10 copies >of this message must leave your hands in 96 hours... You must not sign on >this message. > > > > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 18:46:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA02546; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA02504; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:45:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id SAA16626; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:44:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:44:33 -0800 (PST) From: Karen Hardie Subject: Re: Hawaii Court: Lesbian & Gay Couples Should Be Allowed To Marry To: David Ginsberg cc: Paul McKernan , Stephanie Ginsberg , Susan Peacey , jfhmsh@msn.com, Shannon Foster , Willow Selzer , Todd Smith , Paul Anthony Rose , Barbara Herrick , SF Raves In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk HOORAAAAYYYY!!! :) pounce ---------------------------- As she lay there dozing mext to me, one voice inside my head kept saying, "Relax ... you're not the first doctor who's ever slept with one of his patients," but another kept reminding me, "Howard, you're a veterinarian." - Dick Wilson, Orlando, FL From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 18:48:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA02809; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:48:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA02785; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:47:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id SAA17264; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:47:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:46:51 -0800 (PST) From: Karen Hardie Subject: Re: Colds At Raves To: plur@juno.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <19961203.155338.10926.1.plur@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I usually only share water with people that i know. I bring in my own bottle and fill up from whatever taps are around. I know this isn't foolproof, but it saves me money, and i usually know which one of my friends is ill :) I used to share water indiscriminately, but being sick all the time made me feel that it was all right to be selfish on these occasions. Besides, REAL ravers take care of their own water ;) pounce ---------------------------- As she lay there dozing mext to me, one voice inside my head kept saying, "Relax ... you're not the first doctor who's ever slept with one of his patients," but another kept reminding me, "Howard, you're a veterinarian." - Dick Wilson, Orlando, FL From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 18:51:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA03986; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA03873; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:51:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.134.227.175] (ppp175-sf1.sirius.com [205.134.227.175]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id SAA17246; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:48:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199612040248.SAA17246@mail1.sirius.com> Subject: Re: shall we blast each other? -> get it straight first Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 18:51:11 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Michael Standish To: "-=]madame mercury[=-" , "sfr" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk quoth madame mercury > I hate phish!!!!! Not to mention, living in S.C. w/ 90% > of the phish followers does get to ones TECHNO craving heart. Nightmare! My heart goes out to you. I couldn't handle being around all those crab ranchers. quoth matthew d. p. k. lanier >> very rarely do i publicly blast someone, but this message made me sick: >> > >> > I think you're quite confused....your giving raves/raving a >> > bad name comparing it to a PHISH concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> > >> > What does PHISH have to do with raving anyway???? >> > NOTHING!!!!!!! So don't post it here w/out NRR! >> > >> > MHg >> >> madame mercury, this message was entirely innapropriate. >> >> you have no right to tell someone else that their definition of raving is >> wrong. we each have our own definitions, and if you don't agree, either >> a)accept that other people have their own definitions and co-exist happily, >> b)keep going and successfully make it into everone's kill file (you're in >> many, already!), or c)go away. I have to dissagree with you Mattew; beacause, I agree 100% with MHg. I too get really pissed when people compare ravers to phish fans. I find it very insulting. I have a whole lot more in common with a bunch of trendy, addias wearing kids then I'll ever have with a bunch of unwashed PU-chewly reeking crab ranchers. What do we have in common anyway? Many people in both groups do drugs: so what? The whole country is on drugs. Sheesh all MHg asked for was a little NRR where needed. A perfectly valid request. Speaking of kill files phish is definitley in mine. Gawd I love Claris Emailer. I think it's still free at: ftp://ftp.claris.com/pub/USA-Macintosh/x.Shareware-Freeware/Emailer_Seeding / Not only does Claris Emailer let me make kill files, it also puts all sfr stuff in it's own folder. Eudora Pro will do this as well, but it costs money. Oh yeah that address is for the MacOS version, I've no idea if Claris Emailer comes in any other version. ps to MHg: please keep throwing monkey wrenches in the works; this list can get to be a bit of a sheep farm at times. Michael Standish DoD#732 standish@sirius.com CBR600F 510.525.FILM (525.3456) 2 wheels good, 4 wheels bad From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 19:04:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA05229; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:04:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from chip.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA05223; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:04:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by chip.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.7.3) id TAA09948; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:04:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:04:43 -0800 (PST) From: -=Joe=- X-Sender: ez041655@chip.ucdavis.edu Reply-To: -=Joe=- To: Jay Wiley cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: News article on drugs In-Reply-To: <199612032008.MAA03774@trix.cisco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Wow! I'm totally into learning about "drug-neuroscience," (for lack of a better term), and although I really haven't been looking all that hard (and I don't know all that much outside of what they tell me in school), I haven't found any good *current* drug-related articles in the popular media that are actually concerned with physical or chemical bases of interaxn, besides the classic psychological "These are the symptoms...this is what case studies say it's like" rhetoric. I've always assumed that this is because research has been slim on these things, since the drugs involved are "illegal." I can't imagine that it would be because the scientific community as a whole doesn't care. But then again, if the drug in question were, say, illegal, physiologically nonaddictive, and relatively harmless for the most part, there's no money in researching it, is there? (*sigh*; Yet again, our quest for knowledge is based on greed for wealth, rather than the betterment of humanity.) Anyways, the magazine, you say, is Synapse? Where can I find it? BTW, I would consider the article to be rave-related. If users do ingest psychoactives (such as E, acid, etc.), or any other drug as a regular part of the scene, is that not justification enough to explore it in a rave-based newsgroup? I would think that a lot of users would want to know more about what they are putting into their bodies. (I know I would!) Well, that's my .02, thanx for sharing, Jay! --plur--. ---=Joe=' ____________________________________________________________________________ _/oe /-/elgeson: jphelgeson@ucdavis.edu, http://lm.ucdavis.edu/SA/jphelgeson ============================================================================ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 19:24:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA06752; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:24:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA06744; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:24:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from 204.30.72.89 (sdx-ca8-25.ix.netcom.com [204.30.72.89]) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA21158; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:23:43 -0800 Message-ID: <32A448D3.41F4@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 08:36:39 -0700 From: CT Reply-To: ctd-zine@ix.netcom.com Organization: CT D-Zine X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "-=]madame mercury[=-" CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: <<>> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk -=]madame mercury[=- wrote: > > I'm sorry to say though, DJ DAN's set was sorta disapointing. It was > kinda hard and angry....theories why: > 1) his boyfriend broke with him > 2) his boyfriend cheated on him > 3) he had a bad day > 4) he thought it was too hot and stuffy in that tiny room > 5) he's been out of the US too long > 6) he's practicing for Germany Dec. 14th 7)You've heard _WAY_ TO MANY DJ Dan sets!!!! -T From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 19:27:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA06953; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from slip-3 by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA06945; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:27:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sf-asc-34-183.dialup.slip.net [206.14.14.183] by slip-3 with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vV7zn-0001Ff-00; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:27:40 -0800 X-Sender: jonas@mail.domain.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: SFRaves@hyperreal.com (San FranJunglisco Raves) From: jonas@hunab-ku.com (Jonas Judd (Etznab)) Subject: BSP: Audio Impact - It's on! Message-Id: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:27:40 -0800 Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey Everyone! After digging around this town, we finally found a spot for Audio Impact. Kinda last minute I know, but when your renegade, beggers can't be choosers! :) Due to the short notice, we can only do 21+ this time around. Sorry, but it was the best we could do. Brace yourself for the 18th. We'll be getting some guests in, do 18+ again, with a much better location! Tomorrow, Wed. Dec 4th, 9p - 2a $5 Sound Specialists include: Shoam Hannibal Selector Tomas UFO ...at the VooDoo Lounge (y'know, where Headquarters is!), 601 Eddy between Polk & Larkin, SF Call the BASS Kru voice mail for more info: 415.332.5800 ext. 247 Got a lot to say about the state of events regarding spaces in this town (fuckin' hell!!!). Perhaps when things slow down a bit, I'll chew your ear off. ;) If there are any problems with the management, please let us know so we can go step on their throats! later... Jonas J. "Resonance is Information" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 19:39:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA07887; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:39:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA07881; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from 205.184.16.43 (sfo-ca13-11.ix.netcom.com [205.184.16.43]) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA19490; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:38:09 -0800 Message-ID: <32A4F485.1C97@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 19:48:21 -0800 From: Dan Capriles Reply-To: c9d@ix.netcom.com Organization: Cloud Nine Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marc Fathauer CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: An enlightened friend of mine References: <3.0.1.32.19961203165609.010473ac@mail.west.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I just wanted to tahnk marc for the letter. I think this 15 year old person has a deeper understanding than a lot of people. While i agree that some of the views are simplistic, i definitely think that he is on the right track. :) Micron From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 20:20:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA11022; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:20:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA11015; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:20:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from (rayvonie@smx-ca8-44.ix.netcom.com [207.92.172.108]) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA23116 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:19:44 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:19:44 -0800 Message-Id: <199612040419.UAA23116@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> From: rayvonie@ix.netcom.com (Ray Vonie) Subject: Response from Feel Good about all this BS on CW To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I wasn't sure I was going to get involved in this BULL SHIT about CoolWorld and all the absolutely ignorant posts.....BUT, austin draged me into it. with his last post about me onlu subing to promote my events....Ha....Just to let you know , Im listening, and I have been around for Close to S E V E N (7) years, and I have seen and heard everything, More than once. And once again here I am feeling like people just DON"T GET IT!!!!! So let me try once again to shed some light on this matter so that everyone can have a clear understanding of what is going on. The first thing is this: FEEL GOOD ENTERTAINMENT IS NOT THE SAME AS COOL WORLD. GET IT STRAIT. This is the botom line and it is final. Anyone that wants to generalize and steriotype is doing just that, And we all know what an ignorant act that is. Secondly. I see a problem arising from the rave sceen, Or atleast the people who consider themselves the "core" ravers, or whatever. You are all geting old and are to stubern to accept the envitable change that takes place in everything in live. Evolution is the foundation of our existance. Nothing ever stays the same, and everything will always change. get a grip on reality, and flow with it. Enjoy the things while they last, and cherish the memory. If you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say anything. Especialy when it comes to things that you do not agree with. I have been around for a real long time. I was one of the promoters that established Cool World. I have nothing but pride in all things that I have come in contact with. Feel Good Ent is my company, we have been around longer than CW, and we have worked with CW on all their events. For anyone who cares to know the truth about CW and what they are all about, Here it is: It is all about bringing people together. CW is a multicultural music and dance festival production company. CW believes that people are brought together by music. It is not solely a rave production organization. CW produces events, and parties, where ALL people can come, that want to. It is just like it saids on all the flyers; If you come with a positive atitude, a good time will be guaranteed. All I have seen is negative atitudes from about CW on this list for a long time, in fact for years. CW has taken more shit from the sceen than anyone else, and yet the parties still get biger and better. what does that tell you?!??? I am down for everybodies freedom of expression, and I beleive that no one can be wrong when it comes to their own opinion. all I am asking for is that if you are not down for somthig, or you don't like the way things are changing, do somthing positive about them. Flaming coolworld as a rave scapegoat for all the sceens problems is not going to make the problems, or coolworld go away, it just makes you out to be a negative person. Coolworld has brought more first time ravers into this sceen than any other production company. They have exposed thousands of people to the beuty of house music and introduced many people to sceen. Cool World should get some apreciacion, and respect for their eforts, not anger and negativity. I have a lot of pride in the rave sceen. And I have a lot of pride in FGE and CW. The one thing that I have learned is that you cannot please everyone. There are always going to be those that go unhappy no matter how hard you try to do the best you can. This is unfortunate, but it is the truth. So for those of you who are unhapy about CW, just don't go. You probably won't be missed, and the absence of your negative attitude will make the event more positive. A party is what you make it. It exists in you mind and is manifested by your attitude. if you want to have a good time, you will. If you didn't have a good time, then you didn't make the best of it. PLUR without the F Vlad FGE aka Ray Vonie From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 20:27:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA11768; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:27:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA11756; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:27:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp117-sf1.sirius.com [205.134.227.117]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id UAA20856; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:25:23 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:25:23 -0800 Message-Id: <199612040425.UAA20856@mail1.sirius.com> X-Sender: kerryl@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) From: Kerry Levenberg Subject: Re: Categorizations... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well spoken. John. You have addressed a lot of things that have concerned me since I joined the list. Part of the Respect in PLUR requires that we be aware of those around us. Even when different than us. No. Especially when different. Make the effort to be aware. I do not doubt that many on the list may not have known the impact of words like 'gangsta'. I do not think anyone is really being accused of racism of the Mark Fuhrman type. But there are other kinds of racism, kinds which can be found in our words and in our institutions. Often without awareness, we can participate in it-- just by virtue of picking up the dialect or living in this society. With knowledge (and a little of the Love in PLUR), we can learn. Beware of other words, like 'PC', not because being 'PC' is problematic, but because it is used, like an epithet, to cut off discussion. And the discussion is needed, for that is where the awareness starts. Thank you for your bravery in taking something so controversial into SFRaves. You are not alone in your opinions. Or your attitudes. PLUR (and I mean it), Kerry At 11:35 AM 12/3/96 -0800, you wrote: >Funny how when I mentioned that "..many of you white males" used >derrogatory code words to describe people, you were offended. Why? I >mean, the list is predominantly white and male. I of course do not >resort to code words to describe who I am talking about, but that is not >the point. > >The point is many on this list use the words of division to describe >those people who are differnt than they. We use the terms us and them, >at first. Then it just degrades from that point into devisive name >calling, caode words, nonsense. > >From our history together, as party goers/ravers/list history we know >what words will get a response. We KNOW that we have gone round after >round about the word gangstah, to the point where people try to re-define >it as attitude moreso than a particular look or color. I guess one must >consider, before using such speech, where the words originate from >(vocally). Example; I as an African-American male can be in the compnay >of my bretheren (i.e. other blakc males), and use the term n****r w/o >fear of reprisal (pretty much). But if I were a white male, would the >same rules apply. If I am a gay male and am talking to my brtheren (i.e >other gay males), and say "Shit, I am not going to that damn party, I'm >sick of all those f*gs." is it the same as if I were a straight male and >say the same words? > >And that is what I mean. Just because YOU have redfined a term does not >mean that it has any less impact in the real world. And in certain >neighborhoods, talkin all that gangstah stuff will get your ass kicked. >Just for talking noise. I would love to drop Adder off into a veryu, >very rough place, and have him describe to real hoodz what the term >gangstah meant to him. It would be like me going to Widowee, MS to >explain my bi-racial son and present Caucasian girlfriend. In other >words, many aren't hearing it. > >I try to be careful about people's feelings. SOmething that has gone out >of style. Being PC is a very bad thing (next time LOOK at who says PC is >a bad thing...) to many people. To me such arguments are just arguments >to be rude, impolite, and insensitive to others. In the real world, >such insensitivity can get you killed.. Or at least hurt. > >I think we all should watch what we say. I think we all should care >about how our message is perceived. I think we all should be sensitive >to the likes and dislikes of others. I think we all should try to avoid >conflict where possible, but if it is not possible to agree to disagree, >and strive to be respectful of each others boundaries. > >Calling people names is not the answer. For every gangstah, I will show >you a good for nothing bridge-and-tunnel fuck. For every nigger, a >redneck chickshit whitebread motherfucker. For every babe, betty, bitch, >a stoopid hunk, dumb jock, plain dog. > >When will we gorw up and stop the madness. When can we start to realte >to each other instead of labelling. When will we ever celibrate the >diversity of life, versus the current cultural war for everyone to be >assimilated into one massive glob of, er "culture". > >When will many of you, in your PLURist leanings an beliefs start to buck >up when someone slams someone else for being different. What is PLUR w/o >practice and purpose. > >Look, I have been to more parties than lany on this list. I have partied >for years and friggin years on end. Parties were alot more fun back in >the day when it was new, and relatively not part of the mass culture >(which dance culture now is). Parties used to have all kinds of >motherfuckers in 'em. Gay goyz w/o shirts, straight men chasing skirts, >young girls on the move, other ladies cathchin' a groove, Gay women in >effect, others didn't have lables yet, we all danced in fun, usually long >after the setting sun. > >Let's now get our headz out of the collective toilet. There is no more >room for bigotry or hatred here or anywhere else. Stop the madness. > >It starts with you. > >Out & Audi from this name calling, >John > >DJ Chief Boot Knocka > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 21:31:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id VAA16190; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA16185; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:31:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [144.91.245.28] (ppp10-2072.mills.edu [144.91.245.28]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA10802; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:31:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612040531.VAA10802@uclink4.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: shall we blast each other? NRR Date: Tue, 3 Dec 96 21:33:14 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: presumed To: "Michael Standish" , "Da Rava People" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >>> > >>> > I think you're quite confused....your giving raves/raving a >>> > bad name comparing it to a PHISH concert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>> >>> you have no right to tell someone else that their definition of raving >>> is wrong. we each have our own definitions, and if you don't agree, >>> either a)accept that other people have their own definitions and co- >>> exist happily, b)keep going and successfully make it into everone's >>> kill file (you're in many, already!), or c)go away. > >I have to dissagree with you Mattew; beacause, I agree 100% with MHg. I >too get really pissed when people compare ravers to phish fans. I find it >very insulting. I have a whole lot more in common with a bunch of trendy, >addias wearing kids then I'll ever have with a bunch of unwashed >PU-chewly reeking crab ranchers. What do we have in common anyway? Many >people in both groups do drugs: so what? The whole country is on drugs. If you want to insult people, have fun - I hope it takes you as far in life as you want to go. I guess I'm misinterpreting your post, because it seems like you're saying you like people based on how well they accord to your fashions, but I don't think people are ever this blatently shallow. Please clarify. Well, if you want to impose your views of what a rave is on others, why not try these other restrictions... "real raves don't have flyers" or "real raves are only held in broken-into spaces" CLEARLY, not everyone has the same idea about what raving is... "House music gives the rave scene a bad name, trance is the only true music" "Trance music gives the rave scene a bad name, house is the only true music" etc etc - why have such a narrow view?... at phish concerts I have had complete strangers give me presents. Phish phans have sent me dozens of tapes on the confidence that I will give them something in return. Listening to music with people who are sharing in the groove and the appreciation of the tunes. People dance. Soem use psychedelics to heighten their experience. How many similarities do you want? I mean, I see as much difference between some raves as I do between raves and phish. Compare Cool World events to, say BBQ & Beats or a Friends and Family party. Quite different? And there are soo many kinds of electronic music, many are very dissimilar. I don't get the crab ranching reference... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 21:54:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id VAA17946; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:54:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA17859; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:53:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ATR01384; Wed, 04 Dec 1996 00:53:05 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Last COOL WORLD Message! Message-ID: <19961203.214945.3622.0.plur@juno.com> References: <199612040419.UAA23116@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 20,29,32,35-49 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 00:53:05 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I don't know who said what about Feel Good being like COOL WORLD, which is totally bogus. But thankyou Ray Vonie for proving my point about COOL WORLD. They are not a rave production. They do many events as well. Ravers can do what they want. I don't know what its like to ba at a rave from the promoters view with a fat wallet and all, but the fact that they are so huge and every RAVER saids bad about COOL WORLD now. I have not been raving all my life, I don't know how it was then or whatever. One thing I do give COOL WORLD is that they don't false advertise for DJ and anything that will go on at a COOL WORLD. The one thing that they cant change is who goes to their PARTIES. But they can try to not attract those types f people. Before a movie, play, production of whatever you need to have a target audience in mind. Since there are no changes in the way they do things on a down scale, that must mean they are happy with who goes there. The term RAVER comes from the word RAVE. RAVERS are essentially what make a rave, a rave. Sure whoever wants to go to a rave can go and its hellza cool. Its jsut that every Raver i know, has been brought into the scen by another RAVER. That mean that A Raver has approved a person to become a possible raver. Sometime they may choose wrong and that one person may not set out a good vibe. Don't know why. Or They may be told. "Wanna go to a RAVE?" They have heard stories about it, mostly lies concocted by the media. They are never sat down and talked to about Vibes, Smiles, PLUR (most important factor of a rave) and hugs. The things that every raver treasures and hopes for at every rave. No it so happens, that i have had been handed flyers for COOL WORLD from people who don't even look or act like a raver. They don't know who I am or if i am mean or what. I amy say COOL, Angelina is going to be there. Then I go to a COOL WORLD, since there aren't any good vibes or PLUR there i feel the same as before, but have a good time and maybe get into a fight. I don't knwo what PLUR is no told me. Yet i still went to a rave. Thats the thing here. Every rave i know has been brought in the scene by another rave. They have been sat down and have been told what PLUR is. Their raver firiend has been educating them how to act at a rave. Since COOL WORLD is so public, of course it will introduce so many people to their first rave. But they will go for drugs, music, whatever. Not for PLUR. Because its not on the flyer. I mean the COOL WORLD Magazine. Thats what is wrong with COOL WORLD PLUR -Paul (The Guy Who started this thread) I have been to a COOL WORLD. I know how it is. I can back up everything i say I am a RAVER I know what PLUR is Ravers make a rave. Not Music, not drugs, not money, not visuals. Ravers Make a Rave http://www.geocites.com/Area51/7590/rave.html From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 22:58:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id WAA23146; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 22:58:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA23137; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 22:58:35 -0800 (PST) From: bri@value.net Received: from localhost (bri@localhost) by value.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA20619 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 22:58:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 22:58:32 -0800 (PST) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: test, sorry -- NRR Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk this is a waste of time and bandwidth. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 23:01:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA23302; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:01:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA23295; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:01:19 -0800 (PST) From: bri@value.net Received: from localhost (bri@localhost) by value.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA20790 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:01:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:01:15 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: bri@value.net To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: just a shitty test message - NRR Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk still reading my test posts? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 23:02:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA23371; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:02:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ng.netgate.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA23367; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:02:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from beast (d137.netgate.net [205.214.160.176]) by ng.netgate.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA12665 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:04:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32A52287.1714@netgate.net> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 23:04:39 -0800 From: The Grigsbeast Reply-To: grigsby@netgate.net Organization: Ollie's House of Cesium Pantaloons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: what ravers do Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > This is really stupid, because NO RAVER ever, ever hits on any girl/guy > at a rave, ever! > If a girl/guy hits on a RAVER, he will usually say no thankyou. He/she > doesn't like Homie girls/guys. He/She likes Ravers! Whew. Glad this got cleared up. Guess all those bustiers, hip-huggers, retro-thrift rayon shirts, and knit caps worn in 110 degree heat are completely utilitarian in nature. And I didn't know that all those people laying on each other in the chill room came to the event as a group who already knew each other, without exception. Gosh! I'm so naive sometimes. Perhaps some day I will know enough to be a Raver. // grigsbeast From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 23:17:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA24123; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:17:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA24054; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:16:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom6.netcom.com (root@netcom6.netcom.com [192.100.81.114]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA10260 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 01:16:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA15135; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:13:36 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:13:36 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19961203.175756.3566.0.plur@juno.com> References: <199612040055.QAA02559@netcom20.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: What is a gangsta, gangstah... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 2:02 AM -0000 12/4/96, plur@ juno.com wrote: >Okay this guys is the best example of the worst vibe in the world Read >this. And you are the best reason for birth control. >Well they payed for all the raves I have seen them at because the rent a >cops had bigger guns than they did and because a police car was there. >They are gangsters not stupid, they are not going to comit a felony in >front of so many cops. Like I said, you don't know any gangstahs. They don't give a fuck about cops. If you knew some you would know. Cops are more afraid of gangstahs than you would think. But then agian you don't know any. Suuffice it to say your troll or rather the rest of your post is the same-ol tired-ole. Whatever...go rave, leave the rest of us alone. Or else we just might woop your sorry ass with a backflip, and a scissor kick, all done on a piece of cardboard or in a circle, close to my homies in case you dare buck up. Of course one false move on the dnacefloor and you're history. Circle dancing doesn't allow for mistakes pal. Out fo ya, John > >I knew from his tatoos, the way he acted towards others, also because he >was wearing a red bandana. So I guess Aunt Jemima musta been one real bad mutha! The rest of your troll is pathetic. Gangsters don't go to raves. Consider your plur-butt educated. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 23:17:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA24133; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA24066; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:17:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom6.netcom.com (root@netcom6.netcom.com [192.100.81.114]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA10261 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 01:17:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA15139; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:13:41 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:13:41 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <961203150535_1718168314@emout06.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DNKSMKR@aol.com From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: Fwd: Categorizations... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 8:05 PM -0000 12/3/96, DNKSMKR@aol.com wrote: >--------------------- >Forwarded message: >Subj: Re: Categorizations... >Date: 96-12-03 15:02:13 EST >From: DNKSMKR >To: jsl@netcom.com > >I have been reading on this subject for a while and now I am pissed off. > First off...ther e are some of us who have been partying for just as long >now and I am white but I don't care. When you start saying white males...you >are categorizing...right? No, I am saying white males. There are black males, white males, asian males, all ,kinds of amles. The variety I was talking about are the white males that inhabit this country, and thus this list. Or, as I more accurately put it, SOME or MOST, but certainly not all. >Then why must you talk so much shit about >grouping.... Why didn't you pipe up when people start grouping others by using terms such as gangstah. Please apply your OWN laws equally and we might get to a btter understanding. >I am the least rascist person you will meet. I don't know that. Not yet that is. >What I don't >understand is why is this all being called false..Don't people in terms group >themselves???Don't you remember high school? Yep, I graduated in 1981. My group of friends consisted of whites, jamaicans (very racially diverse), one Asian brotha who is still my serious hometown, and many hard ass brothers. I love and loved them all. That is what high school was for me. Very, very integrated. Group mentality started in stoopid ass college. >Of course there is a reason for >everything but what I don't understand is why criticisize on the wrongdoings >of others when you jump in the boat yourself? And, pray-tell, what did I do wrong? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 23:17:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA24177; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:17:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA24074; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom6.netcom.com (root@netcom6.netcom.com [192.100.81.114]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA10263 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 01:17:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA15153; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:13:52 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:13:52 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: blkadder@value.net From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > >Who mentioned white males John? Who is accusing whom of racism John? > >> >> > A while back, I believe Larry Ching went to the trouble and did a little >> > survey about the use of the word "gangsta" to describe certain >> > individuals. The results confirmed my understanding and use of the word: >> > "gangsta" is about attitude and not color. >> > >> > It is only a color issue because you wish it to be one. >> >> It is only a color issue becuase it has always been a color issue. > >Odd, Larry's informal survey did not show this. Perhaps you are out of >touch with the context with which the term is used on this list. And WHO particiapted in the survey. Thank you very much sir. As for context, perhaps it is the people on this list who are out of touch..with reality perhaps? As the great OJ Simpson said "Go figure." > >> I will not cry for your whiteness, nor will I bash you for it. But if >> you do like to use the term gangstah so much, I just might lable you a >> racist. > >I am ambivalant about the term, because it is not a racist term. *YOU* >have taken it as such. No not me, your society. And the sub-society that loves to bandy labels around like tic tacs, then when called to task try to defend their racism with freedom of speech, non-PC, etc. Whatever, a memeber of your community takes offense, and you say to him, "Shut up!, We're not talking about you!". Whatever. The more things change the more they remain the same. > > >> But then, white males have been labelling things for centuries. > >So what's this about not bashing people for their whiteness? Matter of fact sir. Need I remind you of American history? Bashing? This is a fact. > >You may label me a racist John, but who has made this a racial issue when >their was never any mention of color? Who has made comments about a group >of people based on their color? > >Just you John, just you. > > Black Adder I have labled you nothing, I know you must be disappointed by this. I said I MIGHT call you a racist. After all, you and others on this list use racist speech, and categorize people who are outside of your neat rave domain. Which, in my not so humble estimation, is damn near completely white. Much like this list, much like this country. Just a matter of fact. And I have noticed a certain mena-spritiedness seep in. Oh no my droogies, you know me, I hardly say anything, and it didn't srat with me, I JUST chimed in today so.... This bullshit gangstah talk has run it's course, time for a new paradigm. Find it, and stop the racist leanings, racist tendencies, and racist speech. I for one will no longer sit idly by and allow this to continue. I have had quite enough of the bigotry. Time for it to go. Late, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 23:17:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA24187; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:17:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA24075; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:17:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom6.netcom.com (root@netcom6.netcom.com [192.100.81.114]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA10262 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 01:17:04 -0600 (CST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA15147; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:13:48 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:13:48 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199612031910.LAA23119@netcom20.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: blkadder@value.net From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 7:46 PM -0000 12/3/96, blkadder@value.net wrote: >On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > >> Sir, >> >> as much as you would have liked me to, I did NOt categorize all white >> males. I said many white males on this list. Many is not ALL. Please >> re-read. Then we can re-read the archives to see where allt his gangstah >> talk started. I gurantee it was not started by either Geoff or I (from >> what I know the ONLY two black males on this hokey-doke anyway). I would >> also like to point out that this cetgorization has been leveled against >> people of color for all types of reasons. I think your dad is an ex-cop, >> ask him how people were categorized for easy pick-up and removal. > >So John, what you are saying is that the only people on this list >qualified to speak on the subject of "gangstahs" and not be racist are >yourself or Geoff? That is correct. Since I KNOW gangsters, and Geoff has had his run-in's with a few. other than perhaps your dad, who was in Law Enforcement, you arte quite correct. The fact that we are of African descent (not your dad mind you ;) ), gives us a different perspective. I would say however that anyone who has had dealings with those in that underworld, are better versed than many on this list who had very middle/upper-middle calss upbringings. I would almost venture, by the responses, that some have had isolated interactions with Africans or other people of color. Your suprise at my virtriol for coded speech is just one example of the disconnect. > >> In any case, I am categorizing the behaviour of many on this list as >> completely reprehensible and racist. > >In this thread, or all the recent discusssion about "ganstahs" who, >besides yourself has mentioned color in any of their comments? That's because Adder, gangstah is perceived by myself and others as racist code language. Not to mention that fact would be doing you and other a disservice. For then, how would you know WHY I am so angered at the use of such verbiage. C'mon, I've played better computer chess. > > >> Sorry, but I like to call a spade a spade. > >No, what you are doing is attempting to silence a wide group of people by >accusing them of racism, where none exists. Or so you perceive. You will see what you want to see. The world, as I have said many times, is a much different place than you make it to be at times Adder. As for a wide group of racist speech users, yes, I would rather not hear the rubbish. I think there are some hate groups online that are btter suited to such discusions. > >> You and others would like to mask this truth by saying that >> such speech is to categorize behvaiour and not color. Really? > >Yes. If you buy that, so be it. ++ more next message +++ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 23:18:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA24228; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:18:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA24096; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:17:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom6.netcom.com (root@netcom6.netcom.com [192.100.81.114]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA10264 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 01:17:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA15159; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:13:55 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:13:55 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <31B01D10.3041@vax.sonoma.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Starchild From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: (once again) clothing and attitude Cc: ess kay three , SF Raves Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 8:00 PM -0000 12/3/96, Starchild wrote: >Dear SFRavefriends, > > I feel Lara's right that it's attitude, not clothing -- that's why >I try to avoid making negative judgements about people because of their >dress styles when I post. But at the same time, it needs to be said that >there can be a strong correlation between dress and behavior. For >example, do you think a party is really going to go off if everyone has on >3-piece suits and cocktail dresses? It has happened before? Might want to try an Alpha Phi Alpha party for starters. Out, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 23:20:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA24384; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:20:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA24356; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:19:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom6.netcom.com (root@netcom6.netcom.com [192.100.81.114]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.8.2/8.8.2) with SMTP id BAA10282 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 01:19:52 -0600 (CST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA15166; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:14:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:14:04 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199612031935.LAA26417@netcom20.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: *B* From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: Gangsters Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 8:24 PM -0000 12/3/96, *B* wrote: > Why am I getting involved in this? I have no idea - probably bored >and work and maybe feeling quilty that I call some people gangsters... > > The post that started all of this (I don't know who wrote it) >>>> > fun at a party in a shitty space filled with a bunch of A***** wearing >>>> > gangstas :) > >was just a joke (at least I think). There is a :) at the end - people >cheer up, don't take stuff too seriously :P. > > So, here is a little background - I grew up in Croatia, where there >is only one race. The very, very few non Caucasian people that are there >are African students (very rare), Asians are even smaller minority, and >basketball players that end up at Student Olympics :). But we have >gangsters as well (maybe we just picked up a word and gave it a different >meaning) and none of them are black. So, for me a word gangster has >nothing to do with race. John, I feel bad that that's the way you feel >about it, because I know more people who are my friends who refer to >gangsters as Larry described it. And most of those people are white :). > > So, my point is that the word is very relative, and it can have >different meanings to different people. It is too bad that the word gets >some people upset (it has never, ever been my intention to classify it as a >racist word), while others use it as a description of somebody's style. >There are a lot of women that get upset when they are called girls or >chicks, and maybe because I am not an American (English is not my first >language) I use those words more than word women. I don't feel like it has >any bad meaning in it, but sometimes some "women" look at me like I >shouldn't be saying that. Sometimes I try to explain myself, but sometimes >there is no hope and I am classified and anti-feminist, should-be-a-male >blah, blah, blah... > > Maybe all of us should try to look at words (phrases etc.) from >different prospective and realize why people choose to use them, rather >than getting in flame wars. Understanding each other is what will make us >grow stronger and become better people so why don't we give it a shot. I >know I am willing to try. Practising PLUR is a little bit more than just >signing the end of e-mail with it, and it seems to me that some people just >can't grasp that really well. > >My 2 kuna's, >*B* Thank you! Well said! PEace, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 23:22:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA24463; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from guilder.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA24449; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:21:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by guilder.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.8.1) id XAA12043; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:21:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:21:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.16.19961203221434.22373482@peseta.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: ez056875@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (16) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Matthew Wietzke Subject: Free e-mail for life (NRR) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I found a cool site that gives a free emial address for life. It's really cool because you make up the email name and what it does is when people send email to that address it forwards it to whatever address you have currently. So when you change email addresses all the time, this one always stays the same. The address is www.bigfoot.com. Hope some of you like this. Matthew Wietzke mswietzke@ucdavis.edu, xpress@bigfoot.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 23:44:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA25716; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:44:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from pom-vms2.pomona.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA25705; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from POMONA.EDU by POMONA.EDU (PMDF V5.1-4 #18014) id <01ICLB11GOH28WWSCD@POMONA.EDU> for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:42:57 PST Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 23:42:56 -0800 (PST) From: dlittle@POMONA.EDU Subject: Re: Colds At Raves In-reply-to: To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk People SHOULD take care of their own water but often don't. One of my friends always felt bad saying no to people in need of water, and she didn't mind giving some to them EXCEPT for the whole cold/disease factor. Her solution: She invested in squirt bottles, so people could squirt the water into their mouths, and their lips never touched the top. She felt happy sharing and she no longer worried about sickness. ...in love and light... Dailey From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Dec 3 23:56:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA26426; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:56:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA26421; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:56:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id XAA02127; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:56:02 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id XAA01305; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:56:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:56:00 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Re[2]: shitty post --> sober raving & E To: Ivan Vasquez cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Ivan Vasquez wrote: > How about if we just stop talking about gangstas all together. I agree! Why talk about anything with potential depth and meaning? I think we should only talk about light and fluffy topics. > What > happened to PLUR? Yea! Really! I mean we all like to dance; we should all agree with one another! > Even if somebody is different they should be accepted by > the rave scene, shouldn't they. Yep! Sign up them arsonists, violent crime peoples (ya know, wife beaters, child molesters, etc.), close minded republicans and such. > Have you ever considered that maybe the > gangstas are trying to make a change in their lives by going to raves? So > what if they still walk around looking like criminals, Although I'm probably wrong here, from what I have seen written it is the "gangsta's" semi-threating/gang violence attitude that people really don't like. The clothing is fairly incidental (for most ;). > they still > contribute to the diversity that makes raves what they are today. I think > everybody should take a nice long 420 break and loosen up! Sure! Just smoke some more euphoriant and skip/dodge the difficult issues in our lives and at raves. After all, it is the American way. I sorta apoligise for the flipness I'm exhibiting in this response. It's finals and my brain is doing wierd things. I personally would like to see more discussions on tricky, hard to resolve issues that impact the rave communitty but would also like to see more thought and less angry, overly emotional reactions (from myself as well!!). peace y'all, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 02:01:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id CAA03279; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 02:01:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id CAA03272; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 02:01:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id CAA17648; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 02:01:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 02:01:33 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: The Grigsbeast cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR: Humans & other animals In-Reply-To: <32A3ACDA.58BA@netgate.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk My computer tells me that on Mon, 2 Dec 1996, The Grigsbeast shared (in part): > In fact, the average human, from a biological perspective, leads a > stunningly featureless life of work->TV->sleep->repeat, with occasional > hunting for mates thrown in. The fact that this average human uses a > lot of very complex technology to do so isn't interesting from a > sociobiological standpoint, as they had no hand in creating it and do > not understand it in the least. A human driving a car is no more > intrinsically impressive than a seagull dropping a shell on the road so > that the same car will crack it open and let her eat the contents. Most of us had no hand creating the technology we use, true. But it was created by humans, not seagulls or chimpanzees. It is a recent, rapid, and unprecedented development in the history of Earth. I appreciate that Grigsbeast may feel that he would be exhibiting arrogance by calling humanity the most advanced lifeform on the planet. At least that seems to be a common concern of humans uncomfortable with the idea of the primacy of our species. But the evidence we have points to this being true; surely speaking truth does not make one arrogant. "Disrespecting" lower life forms is perhaps a sign of arrogance, but recognizing that they are lower is not. I believe in a healthy respect for all life, even to the extent of being uncomfortable doing anything about the ants in my kitchen. Yet they are still ants, and I don't hold their lives in the same regard as that of a creature capable of love, fear, hopes, dreams, aspirations, appreciation of the beauty around us and abstract thought, i.e. a human being. And as for the average human leading a "stunningly featureless" life, well, that's what we have raves for. Advocate for humanity, <<< Starchild >>> From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 03:01:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id DAA10834; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 03:01:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id DAA10825; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 03:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id DAA13765; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 03:01:15 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id DAA13216; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 03:01:13 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 03:01:13 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: communication/thanks (slightly nrr) To: sfraves cc: Ran Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all! =) Some of these threads going on lately (which I've dipped into here and there) have brought up some issues for me that I would like to share; 1) I am happy to be discussing 'difficult' topics, in relation to raving, on this list with people. I'm a far cry from a perfect communicator (whatever that may be) and these issues and topics challenge me and my ability to communicate in a manner I like. 2) Unfortunanetly, as I'm not perfect (HAH! Had you all fooled!) I tend to fall into patterns of communicating, that I use these oppertunities (on SFraves and elsewhere) to learn to avoid. This is frustrating! However, I feel that the only way to overcome my unwanted methods of communicating is to communicate and take the chance of sounding like an ass again. 3) I feel enormously grateful to the human race for coming up with these oppertunities to learn how to increase our ability to communicate with one another. And I am grateful for the tolerence and patience shown by the majority on this list, towards people like me, who are struggling to be better at communicating. peace and hugz for all, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 03:29:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id DAA11895; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 03:29:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id DAA11891; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 03:29:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from slip.net.slip.net [204.162.172.247] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVFWA-00047B-00; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 03:29:35 -0800 Message-ID: <32A55E8C.11D7@slip.net> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 03:20:44 -0800 From: Adam Mednick/philip diaz Reply-To: trance@slip.net Organization: Euphonic Genesis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Response from Feel Good about all this BS on CW References: <199612040419.UAA23116@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk shit, i always post long responses. i wonder if anyone reads them... Ray Vonie wrote: (edited for simplicity) > > For anyone who cares to know the truth about CW and what they are all > about, Here it is: > > It is all about bringing people together. > > CW is a multicultural music and dance festival production company. > > CW believes that people are brought together by music. > > All I have seen is negative atitudes from about CW on this list for a > long time, in fact for years. CW has taken more shit from the sceen > than anyone else, and yet the parties still get biger and better. what > does that tell you?!??? > > Coolworld has brought more first time ravers into this sceen than any > other production company. They have exposed thousands of people to the > beuty of house music and introduced many people to sceen. Cool World > should get some apreciacion, and respect for their eforts, not anger > and negativity. Okay...he's got a point here. How would a first-time partyer/raver find a tight undergroud party? not too likely, eh? well, it's gotta start somewhere, and CoolWorld or Funky Tekno (or some of the other massives) are as good a place as any! hm. lemme explain... here's the World According to Me: (each being a smaller portion of the previous category) There's the general American public, then there's the Partyer-Ravers in the general public, then there's the Happy Ravers inside that group of Partyer-Ravers, then there's the Hardcore Spiritual Ravers within that group of Happy Ravers. it's not too likely that you could jump categories too easily...Raving takes some getting used to. MDMA can make the acclimation faster and easier to understand. I mean, you're probably not going to be able to take Average Joe Blow from Kokokomo and turn him into a Hardcore Spiritual Raver overnight. In fact, most "Happy Ravers" couldn't handle a Spiritual Trance Rave...so why expect that first-timers could understand an Underground party? So Cool World serves a purpose, and should be appreciated for that very reason. If you don't like those types of events, don't go. It's really that simple. But as for things "evolving"... > Evolution is the foundation of our > existance. Nothing ever stays the same, and everything will always > change. get a grip on reality, and flow with it. Enjoy the things > while they last, and cherish the memory. ...I don't think that Cool-World type events are the result of evolution. In fact, the "parties still get biger and better" (sic) because they have stunted their own evolution, pandering instead to the (general American public) masses who wouldn't recognize Cultural Evolution if it walked up to them and smacked them in the head with a ball peen hammer. The Evolution of Raving is happening, but it's at the other end of the spectrum. Get real! Forget the Gravitron, the Ferris Wheel, the Ecstasy, the cigarettes and the erotic fire-breathing dancers. xoxox as always philip-damn-that-h.r.giger-guy-is-the-SHIT-diaz From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 04:12:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id EAA16317; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id EAA16312; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:12:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id EAA16267; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:12:46 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id EAA14860; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:12:46 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:12:45 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Response from Feel Good about all this BS on CW To: Adam Mednick/philip diaz cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <32A55E8C.11D7@slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Adam Mednick/philip diaz wrote: [snippage] > Get real! Forget the Gravitron, the Ferris Wheel, the Ecstasy, the > cigarettes and the erotic fire-breathing dancers. EROTIC FIRE-BREATHING DANCERS!!!!! Oh be still my beating heart. ;) peas, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 04:23:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id EAA16744; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:23:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id EAA16725; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:23:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from discover-7w1k-l.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (discover-7w1k-l.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.89.21]) by ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (8.7/StupidYak 1.0) with SMTP id EAA15365 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:23:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199612041223.EAA15365@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU> X-Sender: senc@ucsee.eecs.Berkeley.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 04:21:44 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Jack Chang Subject: a bomb web site Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk You know what's not a good cure for insomnia?? Web surfing. There is a lot of cool stuff that's easy to find when bandwidth is relatively free...so here's something that's reall cool. This morning I chanced upon the site at www.erowid.com. It has a lot of info of spirituality, faqs on substance use, and links to large segments of the rave culture. Definitely worth checking out. peace Sen "ARE YOU GOD?" Stay Puff Marshmallow Man From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 04:39:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id EAA17267; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:39:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id EAA17263; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:39:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id EAA17128; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:38:52 -0800 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id EAA28260; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:38:51 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:38:51 -0800 (PST) From: _LiQuiD_ Subject: Re: Re[2]: ---SOBER RAVING, YOU CAN DO IT----- To: Andy Wyszkowski cc: "J. Cohen" , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9611028495.AA849560679@smtplink.acer.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I do understand all of your points regarding "soberness" and drugs being legal and not legal... anything that alters your behavior/attitude/etc is a "drug"... there grey areas inbetween these "drugs" and their effects... i simply was stating some of the things i've tried, and that i consider so be "sober" related. there are varying degrees of ALL of this, im really not as stupid as most of you think ;) ***DO NOT READ INTO MY POSTS*** -sheesh LiQuiD ___ . . _.--"~~ __"-. ,-" .-~ ~"-\ . . .^ / ( ) . + {_.---._ / ~ / . Y . / \_j + . Y ( --l__ | "-. . | (___ \ . | .)~-.__/ . . l _) . \ "l + \ \ \ ^. . ^. "-. . "-._ ~-.___, . "--.._____.^ ,-. ,-. ,-. .-. _ _ .-. .-. .-. .-. .' ,'.' ,'.' ,' : : :_; :_; : : `. `.`. `.`. `. : : : : : : : : .-. .---..-..-..-. .-' : : : : : : : ` `. ` `. ` `. : :_ : :' .; :: :; :: :' .; : ,' ' ,' ' ,' ' `._; `._; `._; `.__;:_;`._. ;`.__.':_;`.__.' :_,' :_,' :_,' : : :_: .----. `-- ; _____ ,----- ,',' ,-----. _____ :_____::-----: : : :-----::_____: `-----' :_: `-----' @cats.ucsc.edu From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 04:49:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id EAA17699; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:49:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id EAA17689; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:48:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id EAA17476; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:48:55 -0800 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id EAA28390; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:48:55 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 04:48:54 -0800 (PST) From: _LiQuiD_ Subject: <<--Re: a bomb web site-->> To: Jack Chang cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199612041223.EAA15365@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Jack Chang wrote: > You know what's not a good cure for insomnia?? Web surfing. TRY PLAYING QUAKE ALL NIGHT!!! ANYONE OUT THERE A FELLOW QUAKER? -gibs in the night LiQuiD ___ . . _.--"~~ __"-. ,-" .-~ ~"-\ . . .^ / ( ) . + {_.---._ / ~ / . Y . / \_j + . Y ( --l__ | "-. . | (___ \ . | .)~-.__/ . . l _) . \ "l + \ \ \ ^. . ^. "-. . "-._ ~-.___, . "--.._____.^ ,-. ,-. ,-. .-. _ _ .-. .-. .-. .-. .' ,'.' ,'.' ,' : : :_; :_; : : `. `.`. `.`. `. : : : : : : : : .-. .---..-..-..-. .-' : : : : : : : ` `. ` `. ` `. : :_ : :' .; :: :; :: :' .; : ,' ' ,' ' ,' ' `._; `._; `._; `.__;:_;`._. ;`.__.':_;`.__.' :_,' :_,' :_,' : : :_: .----. `-- ; _____ ,----- ,',' ,-----. _____ :_____::-----: : : :-----::_____: `-----' :_: `-----' @cats.ucsc.edu From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 07:18:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id HAA26821; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 07:18:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id HAA26805; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 07:18:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id KtE12759; Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:17:07 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: The Rave Connetion Message-ID: <19961204.071347.3406.0.plur@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-14 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:17:07 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk THE RAVE CONNECTION OF SAN FRANCICSO RAVING LINKS RAVE REVIEWS UPCOMING RAVE HOMEPAGE LINKS RAVE CALENDAR PLUR PAGE DJ SOUND BITES - coming soon REAL AUDIO MUSIC - coming soon FLYERS RAVE QUESTIONAIRE GOOD VIBES AND HAPPY PEOPLE !NO BAD VIBES ALLOWED! *GANGSTERS WELCOME TO EXPERIENCE A NEW WORLD* From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 07:18:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id HAA26844; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 07:18:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id HAA26835; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 07:18:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id KtF12759; Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:17:07 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: what ravers do Message-ID: <19961204.071347.3406.1.plur@juno.com> References: <32A52287.1714@netgate.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-18,25,31-36 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 10:17:07 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >> This is really stupid, because NO RAVER ever, ever hits on any >girl/guy >> at a rave, ever! >> If a girl/guy hits on a RAVER, he will usually say no thankyou. >He/she >> doesn't like Homie girls/guys. He/She likes Ravers! > >Whew. Glad this got cleared up. Guess all those bustiers, >hip-huggers, >retro-thrift rayon shirts, and knit caps worn in 110 degree heat are >completely utilitarian in nature. And I didn't know that all those >people laying on each other in the chill room came to the event as a >group who already knew each other, without exception. > >Gosh! I'm so naive sometimes. Perhaps some day I will know enough to >be a Raver. > >// grigsbeast > Sorry, what I meant to say is that ravers dont hit on anyone AT A RAVE.. And most of the people in a chill room are people to gone on e. And they are letting the E get the best of them and they don't care because they love each other and are together. They may be rubbing each others necks or whatever, but as long as they are not having sex its cool because they are enjoying their E properly. If they are having sex at a rave they dont have any PLUR they have SEX. Thatts not PLUR. Ravers don't hit on anyone at a rave. They become friends with a person. I don't know what your talking about comparing people laying on each other in a chill room to people that have got each others number and are going to hook up later. Thats a club! You don't hit on anyone at a rave becuase Its looked down on. I'm sorry you didn't know that, but now you know. PLUR, Paul http://www.geocities.com/Area51/7590/rave.html From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 08:07:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id IAA00153; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:07:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA00145; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:07:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id IAA22451; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:07:03 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199612041607.IAA22451@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: RE: San Jose Stylee Lunch... 12-4-96 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:07:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: awyszkow@smtplink.acer.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves ] Is this still on? I may or may not make it - at least, I should show up to return the CD I borrowed! Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com > Date: Mon, 02 Dec 96 18:12:44 pst > From: "Andy Wyszkowski" > Subject: San Jose Stylee Lunch... 12-4-96 (BSP) > ... > Alright, here's the 411: > > Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday... 12/4/96 @ NOON @ PEDRO's > > Reservations made for SFRaves > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > 101 S to Great America Pkwy / Bowers exit Turn left and go over > highway. > About the second light down there will be a Marriot on the right. > Turn right at that light. (I think it is Mission College or something > like that.) Second light after that is Freedom. Turn right. > Its down a ways on the right. > > 101 N to Great America Pkwy /Bowers exit Turn right (don't go over > highway.) > The rest of the directions are the same. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ... > Brought to you by: TimOTronic Prod, AllJayCreations, &-E, BrankaFX, > Larr-E and the rest of the South Bay Cru. Ambient soundscape by MUZAK > Inc. Lighting by PeeGee & E. Soundsystem by Realistic. > ... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 08:51:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id IAA04860; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:51:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom16.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA04852; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:51:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom16.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id IAA17724; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:51:22 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:51:22 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19961204.071347.3406.1.plur@juno.com> References: <32A52287.1714@netgate.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: what ravers do Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Sorry, what I meant to say is that ravers dont hit on anyone AT A RAVE.. >And most of the people in a chill room are people to gone on e. And they >are letting the E get the best of them and they don't care because they >love each other and are together. They may be rubbing each others necks >or whatever, but as long as they are not having sex its cool because they >are enjoying their E properly. If they are having sex at a rave they dont >have any PLUR they have SEX. Thatts not PLUR. >Ravers don't hit on anyone at a rave. They become friends with a person. >I don't know what your talking about comparing people laying on each >other in a chill room to people that have got each others number and are >going to hook up later. Thats a club! You don't hit on anyone at a rave >becuase Its looked down on. I'm sorry you didn't know that, but now you >know. > >PLUR, >Paul > >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/7590/rave.html And I thought *I* was the lawgiver. Sheeit lesee what we have from the mouth of the Holy Raver: -Sex is not cool at a rave. -PLUR is not having sex at a rave. -Ravers don't hit on anyone. (But they do tend to bug the shit out of gangstahs...as the great OJ Simpson said "Go figure.") -Paul knows everything about what it takes to be a raver. -If you don't know something about raves, Paul is the man to see. Go preach that word brotha man, preach! What we know as well: -Gangstahs are not welcome at raves. -You must not show any signs of sexuality. -E, if taken, must be PROPERLY enjoyed. (huh?) -Hitting on people at raves is looked down on. Just ask Paul, the lawgiver. What we also know: -John S. Lee is NOT a RAVER! Yessir! Damn, some on this list are really getting full of themselves. Time for an enema,let the juice flow people, let it flow. Ahhhhhh! Out, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 08:55:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id IAA05385; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:55:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA05358; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:55:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:52:59 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA19931; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 08:52:59 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: South Bay Lunch Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The lunch is still on for today at 12noon-1pm or whenever you need to get back. It will be at Pedro's and the directions are as follows 101 S to Great America Pkwy / Bowers exit Turn left and go over highway. About the second light down there will be a Marriot on the right. Turn right at that light. (I think it is Mission College or something like that.) Second light after that is Freedom. Turn right. Its down a ways on the right. 101 N to Great America Pkwy /Bowers exit Turn right (don't go over highway.) The rest of the directions are the same. You can kinda see it from the hwy 101. I beleive the reservations are under SFRaves. Hope to see as many of you there as possible. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 09:03:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA06064; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:03:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom18.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA06054; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:03:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom18.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA09936; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:03:06 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:03:06 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Rave Nazis Must Die Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Damn people...I can only wonder with all this yap about what raves are and are not, who is deciding all of this? IS there some sort of manifesto? Why do many of you take your dancing sooooooo seriously? I mean, aren't there starving children? Sheeit, many of you are in school using school accounts, talking about what is and is not rave. Probably on the public dole (i.e. student loans that my working ass *guarantees*) in one form or another when your butts should be studying. And all this classification, like everyone is some type of biological specimen. I mean all this "Real ravers are...", and the "We don't like gangsters...", and the "PLUR is all about..." this is all bullshit. In effect it is just another form of segregation. Yeah, PLUR as long as you look /act /dance like me. Yeah, much love as long as you 'follow these rules'. Yeah we're all inclusive and everyone is welcome except type A, type B, type C people. Bullshit folx. You know, I *do* wish it were back in the old days. Why? We didn't spend time yapping about who was not included or who couldn't or shouldn't go...we were waaaay to busy catchin' a groove to pay too much attention to the other bullshit everyone now places such great value on. Yep, at one time there were all kinds of people going to parties. At one time everyone was invited and accepted. The second things became a bit more homogenous did the problems start to happen. Just my not so humble opinion....back to a more diverse past. I do miss raving. Too bad there aren't any happening anymore. Later, John P.S. Believe me, there are no more raves. I don't care what the flyer says. P.S.S. It is just a party...can we dance now? I thought not. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 09:24:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA08184; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:24:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA08149; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:24:42 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA18750; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:23:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:23:21 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: blkadder@value.net To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > >So John, what you are saying is that the only people on this list > >qualified to speak on the subject of "gangstahs" and not be racist are > >yourself or Geoff? > > That is correct. Since I KNOW gangsters, and Geoff has had his run-in's > with a few. other than perhaps your dad, who was in Law Enforcement, you > arte quite correct. The fact that we are of African descent (not your dad > mind you ;) ), gives us a different perspective. A different perspective perhaps, but *not* the only valid one. Personally, I find it difficult to believe that some one that is obviously intelligent could be so narrow-minded and short sighted as to believe that *they* and one other person on the list out of 400+ members that has valid thoughts and opinions on this subject. > I would say however that anyone who has had dealings with those in that > underworld, are better versed than many on this list who had very > middle/upper-middle calss upbringings. I would almost venture, by the > responses, that some have had isolated interactions with Africans or other > people of color. I absolutely agree. But you don't know my background, do you John? You don't know the background of most of the people on this list, do you John? You are making blanket assumptions, that are racially based on your perception of the constituentcy of this list. Also, because someone may not be as well-versed does not invalidate their opinions, nor does it make them a racist. > Your suprise at my virtriol for coded speech is just one example of the > disconnect. I am not suprised by your vitrol John, merely disappointed that seemingly you will never be able to view anything on this earth or in the heavens without looking through the filter of color. > >> In any case, I am categorizing the behaviour of many on this list as > >> completely reprehensible and racist. > > > >In this thread, or all the recent discusssion about "ganstahs" who, > >besides yourself has mentioned color in any of their comments? > > That's because Adder, gangstah is perceived by myself and others as racist > code language. Not to mention that fact would be doing you and other a > disservice. For then, how would you know WHY I am so angered at the use of > such verbiage. And I, and others, have gone to great lengths to demonstrate that their use of the term is non-race specific. However, you feel that you are the only person with a valid opinion on the subject, so everyone else be damned, we all better stop using the word or we are racist. > >> Sorry, but I like to call a spade a spade. > > > >No, what you are doing is attempting to silence a wide group of people by > >accusing them of racism, where none exists. > > Or so you perceive. You will see what you want to see. The world, as I > have said many times, is a much different place than you make it to be at > times Adder. And it is a much different place than you make it to be John. The "Great White Male Bigot" is not around every corner waiting to gleefully opress someone. There are racists in every community. Hate and ignorance are not bound by color. > As for a wide group of racist speech users, yes, I would > rather not hear the rubbish. I think there are some hate groups online > that are btter suited to such discusions. I would rather not hear your racist remarks about white males. Again, the only one I have seen made an issue of race in this discussion is you John. The only one that has mentioned color in making deregatory remarks is you John. If you wish racism to stop, start with yourself. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 09:26:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA08404; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:26:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from saclink3.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA08388; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:26:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by saclink3.csus.edu (1.40.112.6/16.2) id AA054360400; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:26:40 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:26:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: NRR: Humans & other animals To: Starchild Cc: The Grigsbeast , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, humans are actually a primitave life form on earth, now that the aliens are here!! ;) Amy ******* ** ** * * * * * oOOo oOOo * * oOOo oOOo * E.B.E.s * oo oo * Are Here Now * * * . . * * ___ * * * * * * From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 09:36:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA09371; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:36:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA09354; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:36:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20590 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:34:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:34:46 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Ward To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: (sfrr) gangstas thread Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This topic is not only going nowhere, but it's bringing the list down. It takes all types. Lets agree to disagree. Why can't we get a long. I have a dream. Different strokes for different folks. It'll take a nation of millions...yady yady yah...enough already. -alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 09:41:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA09652; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:39:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA09468; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:37:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA25589; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:35:47 -0800 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199612041735.JAA25589@trix.cisco.com> Subject: Re: NRR: News article on drugs To: jphelgeson@ucdavis.edu Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:35:45 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "-=Joe=-" at Dec 3, 96 07:04:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The name of the magazine is Science. I actually got the article off of their web site. www.sciencemag.org/science :) j > Anyways, the magazine, you say, is Synapse? Where can I find it? BTW, I > would consider the article to be rave-related. If users do ingest > psychoactives (such as E, acid, etc.), or any other drug as a > regular part of the scene, is that not justification enough to explore it > in a rave-based newsgroup? I would think that a lot of users would want > to know more about what they are putting into their bodies. (I know > I would!) Well, that's my .02, thanx for sharing, Jay! > > --plur--. > ---=Joe=' > ____________________________________________________________________________ > _/oe /-/elgeson: jphelgeson@ucdavis.edu, http://lm.ucdavis.edu/SA/jphelgeson > ============================================================================ > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 09:54:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA10788; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:54:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA10784; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:54:21 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21360; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:53:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:53:41 -0800 (PST) To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > >> > A while back, I believe Larry Ching went to the trouble and did a little > >> > survey about the use of the word "gangsta" to describe certain > >> > individuals. The results confirmed my understanding and use of the word: > >> > "gangsta" is about attitude and not color. > >> > > >> > It is only a color issue because you wish it to be one. > >> > >> It is only a color issue becuase it has always been a color issue. > > > >Odd, Larry's informal survey did not show this. Perhaps you are out of > >touch with the context with which the term is used on this list. > > And WHO particiapted in the survey. Thank you very much sir. Is this a trick question? The people that participated in this survey were the people on this list, the people that were using the term, and the same people that explained that this term is not about color. So, I say again, perhaps you are out of context with which the term is used on this list. You're welcome. > As for context, perhaps it is the people on this list who are out of > touch..with reality perhaps? As the great OJ Simpson said "Go figure." I suppose that this would depend on whose reality we were discussing. I might also suggest you pick better role models, but of course, that is your prerogative. > >> I will not cry for your whiteness, nor will I bash you for it. But if > >> you do like to use the term gangstah so much, I just might lable you a > >> racist. > > > >I am ambivalant about the term, because it is not a racist term. *YOU* > >have taken it as such. > > No not me, your society. And the sub-society that loves to bandy labels > around like tic tacs, then when called to task try to defend their racism > with freedom of speech, non-PC, etc. > > Whatever, a memeber of your community takes offense, and you say to him, > "Shut up!, We're not talking about you!". No one is talking about you, John. No one has been talking about you John. No one has been using this term as a code word for people of color. There is nothing to defend, although explanations are warranted given your perception of this term. You feel that this term is racist. I, and others using this term, have explained that nothing racial is meant by the term, and it is used to describe attitude and not color. You reject this explanation. That is your prerogative. > >> But then, white males have been labelling things for centuries. > > > >So what's this about not bashing people for their whiteness? > > Matter of fact sir. Need I remind you of American history? Bashing? This > is a fact. John, you made a statement that you would not bash people for their whiteness. How can you accuse others of bigotry when you are blind to your own? > >You may label me a racist John, but who has made this a racial issue when > >their was never any mention of color? Who has made comments about a group > >of people based on their color? > > > >Just you John, just you. > > > > Black Adder > > I have labled you nothing, I know you must be disappointed by this. I said > I MIGHT call you a racist. After all, you and others on this list use > racist speech, and categorize people who are outside of your neat rave > domain. Ah, I did not say you did, but that you may. So I am not disappointed. I know I have said this several times, but the only one that has mentioned race when making a deragatory remark is you John. > I have had quite enough of the bigotry. Time for it to go. Absolutely. So please stop. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 09:55:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA11084; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:55:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from kzsu.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA11021; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:55:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dougm@localhost) by kzsu.Stanford.EDU (8.8.3/8.6.9) id JAA26398 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:55:18 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Miller (J.C.) Message-Id: <199612041755.JAA26398@kzsu.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Re: An enlightened friend of mine To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:55:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <32A4F485.1C97@ix.netcom.com> from "Dan Capriles" at Dec 3, 96 07:48:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > I just wanted to tahnk marc for the letter. I think this 15 year old person has a > deeper understanding than a lot of people. While i agree that some of the views > are simplistic, i definitely think that he is on the right track. I didn't realize that there was anything inherently wrong with simplicity. > > :) > Micron > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 09:57:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA11221; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:57:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout11.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA11202; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:57:03 -0800 (PST) From: SPRIGHTLYC@aol.com Received: by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA14914 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:56:21 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:56:21 -0500 Message-ID: <961204125550_1751877164@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: what ravers do Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Paul, I have been a raver since February of '92 and I met my fiance at a Wicked party two years ago. We didn't hook up at the party, but we did exchange phone numbers *gasp* and got together for coffee later on that week. The rest is history. I have a lot of close friends that I have met through raving and I also met the man who I will be spending the rest of my life with. I didn't go to Wicked that night with the intention of meeting someone, but I did and it was the best thing that has ever happened. People go to raves for a lot of different reasons and no person's reasons are better than another's. Please don't judge people you don't know. Your email name reads "plur" meaning peace, love, unity rave. Ravers, I thought, are supposed to have open minds and be accepting of new ideas and different kinds of people. We're all at raves for many of the same reasons. We feel accepted and loved for who we are. We don't have to prove ourselves to people (or so I thought). We have the freedom to choose (to be sober or not). We want to experience the music. I hope that you can practice plur for real sometime. Carolyn From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 09:57:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA11278; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:57:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA11269; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:57:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA05223; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:57:28 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:57:28 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: blkadder@value.net From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E #1 Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > >A different perspective perhaps, but *not* the only valid one. Personally, >I find it difficult to believe that some one that is obviously >intelligent could be so narrow-minded and short sighted as to believe that >*they* and one other person on the list out of 400+ members that has valid >thoughts and opinions on this subject. > You asked for qualifications. I gave you mine, repeatedly. What are your qualifications sir? I did not say mine was the only valid opinion, just a more qualified one. Please stop twisitng my words and circumlocuting the facts. talk straight and we can get somewhere. >> I would say however that anyone who has had dealings with those in that >> underworld, are better versed than many on this list who had very >> middle/upper-middle calss upbringings. I would almost venture, by the >> responses, that some have had isolated interactions with Africans or other >> people of color. > >I absolutely agree. But you don't know my background, do you John? You >don't know the background of most of the people on this list, do you John? >You are making blanket assumptions, that are racially based on your >perception of the constituentcy of this list. Please enlighten me as to your background, and your various interactions with people of color. Since you and others have yet to pipe up about your interactions, I can only assume, byt the nature of yours and others posts as to what those interactions are. I can tell you this much, people who have dealings with people of color on a daily basis in a peer-to-peer scenario, are a bit more sensitive to the feelings of others. Something currently lacking on this list. So far Adder you are the only one at this point who has mentioned race. FYI. > >Also, because someone may not be as well-versed does not invalidate their >opinions, nor does it make them a racist. Using racist speech makes one suspect. You are sitting here, along with others telling me that a word you chose does not have racists meanings. i am here to disagree and tell you that it does. A community of 400+ has and will have a difficult time redefining a negative word used in the common culture. SOrry, my world is bigger than 400+ people. The real world is a bigger and badder place. >I am not suprised by your vitrol John, merely disappointed that seemingly >you will never be able to view anything on this earth or in the heavens >without looking through the filter of color. A very real filter indeed. Ask Mc Duffie, Nat Turner, Malcolm X, ML King, or Rodney King. I am disappointed that you do not have the capcity to understand anything other than your own view; through rose colored glasses. +++ more next msg +++ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 09:57:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA11316; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:57:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA11280; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:57:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA05250; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:57:33 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 09:57:33 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: blkadder@value.net From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E #2 Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >> That's because Adder, gangstah is perceived by myself and others as racist >> code language. Not to mention that fact would be doing you and other a >> disservice. For then, how would you know WHY I am so angered at the use of >> such verbiage. > >And I, and others, have gone to great lengths to demonstrate that their >use of the term is non-race specific. However, you feel that you are the >only person with a valid opinion on the subject, so everyone else be >damned, we all better stop using the word or we are racist. Nope, just more qualified, as I have made great attempts to demonstrate. You can have whatever opinion you want. If a memeber of your community takes offense you can a) ignore them, b) be sensitive and not use the speech, c) none of the above, d) all of the above. The choice is yours. I will react as appropriate to your choice. >> Or so you perceive. You will see what you want to see. The world, as I >> have said many times, is a much different place than you make it to be at >> times Adder. > >And it is a much different place than you make it to be John. And what place is it that you are referring to? Clarity please. >The "Great >White Male Bigot" is not around every corner waiting to gleefully opress >someone. There are racists in every community. Hate and ignorance are not >bound by color. Yes I understand this firsthand sir. Please don't preach to me about bigotry and hatred unless you have felt it's nasty sting. As for racism and bigotry here on the list., it is well documented. When you stop calling people names, and start treating them like humans, and stop the exclusionary bullshit, we can all move along. If you continue to insist you have some RIGHT to use a racially charged word, then I will continue to see the opportunity to correct you and others, and fight the racist speech. I don't wait for bigots to appear, nor will I hide when they raise thier ugly faces (or feces as the case might be ;) ). > >I would rather not hear your racist remarks about white males. Please cite the racism in my post. Either cite it or shut-up. White males, or the use of such a term, is not inherently racist. If you took offense, please let me know at what, and I'll try to find a suitable code word. Stop playing the victimized white male. You wouldn't know victimization if it sat on your face. >Again, the >only one I have seen made an issue of race in this discussion is you >John. The only ones I have seen use the term gangstah are certainly not me. So go figure. Who are those people who use the word gangstah, or doesn't it matter? Who is definging or redefining the word? Or doesn't it matter? Race is a part of American society, face it, or not, you're living in it, and you use the terms of opression. You can call it what you will, I will not shut up about it until we stop the name calling and start looking at people as people. Nothing more or less. Until then, I will continue to pipe up as long as that term is used. Part of free speech is MY ability to respond to things I do not like to hear. It is a double edged sword. Use it wisely. > The only one that has mentioned color in making deregatory >remarks is you John. If you wish racism to stop, start with yourself. The only one who uses code words are you and others, stop it and I will stop in kind. I also did not call you a racist, but accused people of using racist speech. There is a difference. Unless you know ME Adder, you should watch who YOU call a racist. I walk the walk buddy, I walk the walk. F.A.Y, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 10:12:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA12973; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:12:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom5.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA12966; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:12:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom5.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id KAA06841; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:12:05 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:12:05 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: blkadder@value.net From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >> >Odd, Larry's informal survey did not show this. Perhaps you are out of >> >touch with the context with which the term is used on this list. >> >> And WHO particiapted in the survey. Thank you very much sir. > >Is this a trick question? The people that participated in this survey were >the people on this list, the people that were using the term, and the same >people that explained that this term is not about color. So, I say again, >perhaps you are out of context with which the term is used on this list. Puhleeze Adder, you're becoming tedious. The point was that the results of the survey would reflect the list. No kidding. If people on the list found nothing wrong with the term I guess I should go in lock-step. I find something wrong with it, and I didn't need no damn survey to tell me how I should feel. It's a code word, no matter what a damn survey says. >> As for context, perhaps it is the people on this list who are out of >> touch..with reality perhaps? As the great OJ Simpson said "Go figure." > >I suppose that this would depend on whose reality we were discussing. I >might also suggest you pick better role models, but of course, that is >your prerogative. I would advise you not to advise me on good role models. OJ Simpson was a great footbal player...but he was a much better butcher! "The butcher with the sharpest knife, has the warmest heart." > >> >> I will not cry for your whiteness, nor will I bash you for it. But if >> >> you do like to use the term gangstah so much, I just might lable you a >> >> racist. >> > >> >I am ambivalant about the term, because it is not a racist term. *YOU* >> >have taken it as such. No it is a racist term, you would wish it weren't and that nobody challenged you on it. I am startting to doubt whether for you there is anything that is classified as racist speech. >> >> No not me, your society. And the sub-society that loves to bandy labels >> around like tic tacs, then when called to task try to defend their racism >> with freedom of speech, non-PC, etc. >> >> Whatever, a memeber of your community takes offense, and you say to him, >> "Shut up!, We're not talking about you!". > >No one is talking about you, John. No one has been talking about you John. >No one has been using this term as a code word for people of color. It is called an example. It was not meant to be directly realted to me, but of people in general who have a differnet opinion than the popular (and oft worngheaded) opinions of the list. It applies to more than this dumb dicussion. > >There is nothing to defend, although explanations are warranted given your >perception of this term. I heard the explantions. I reject them. Now, where do we go from here? I am willing to stop the bullshit, if and when we decide to stop using code words. That is where we are...now what? > >You feel that this term is racist. I, and others using this term, have >explained that nothing racial is meant by the term, and it is used to >describe attitude and not color. You reject this explanation. That is your >prerogative. Correct. > > >> >> But then, white males have been labelling things for centuries. >> > >> >So what's this about not bashing people for their whiteness? >> >> Matter of fact sir. Need I remind you of American history? Bashing? This >> is a fact. > >John, you made a statement that you would not bash people for their >whiteness. How can you accuse others of bigotry when you are blind to >your own? What did I say that was bigoted. Please specify. > >> >You may label me a racist John, but who has made this a racial issue when >> >their was never any mention of color? Who has made comments about a group >> >of people based on their color? >> > >> >Just you John, just you. >> > >> > Black Adder >> >> I have labled you nothing, I know you must be disappointed by this. I said >> I MIGHT call you a racist. After all, you and others on this list use >> racist speech, and categorize people who are outside of your neat rave >> domain. > >Ah, I did not say you did, but that you may. So I am not disappointed. >I know I have said isseveral tims, utthe lyone thathas meton >rcewhenmkin a deratoy rmark s you on. >>> hehadquiteeouh f thebgry. Tiefo itt o. >Absoley. Splese stop hynotstt ithuref. Fe ur min adyour as mih folow. Why o you nd othefee te ed call peope gangters? Wh do youand othrsfe te edo lbe,ndcasfy peopl hy calsomeoneager ybewe casrat ther...or betr yet, ay w cn sop te amecalling. ut tt wuld waa toeasy oudon't want to gi u anyof those racridden cde wrd. Mayb you can redfineotr peeh hat nothign s hed sopresve. Ou, Jhn > Blac Add From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 10:27:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA14523; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:27:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA14513; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:27:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id KAA20239; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:27:33 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199612041827.KAA20239@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: Gangst*s & Wigg*s & SFRav*s To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:27:33 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves ] Gangst(er/a)s and Wigg(er/a)s and SFRav(er/a)s : First, about my "gangsta/wannabe gangsta" survey of a few weeks ago - I didn't identify the respondents in my report, and you can see why, from the recent heat about the topics in the last few days. If the folks who replied to my original query post want to email me and tell me their ethnic orientation,I'll post a summary of that too. There was a very interesting article in the "Magazine" tabloid section of the Sunday, Nov. 10th San Francisco Chronicle/Examiner. About the attraction of the black gangster rap/hip-hop lifestyle to non-black youth ( at least the version of that lifestyle that is sold to non-black youth in tv shows, videos, movies, and musical recordings ). The article is can be accessed at the Chronicle/Examiner web site www.sfgate.com - http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/examiner/article.cgi?year=1996 &month=11&day=10&article=MAGAZINE6031.dtl If the above direct URL doesn't work, try the Examiner's previous- editions search engine: http://www.sfgate.com/examiner/previous-editions.html to find the Sunday, Nov. 10, 1996 issue of the San Francisco Examiner : Title: CROSSOVER By Venise Wagner OF THE EXAMINER STAFF Just two juicy quotes from a very meaty article: "The rest of America is still deeply divided by race. So how come so many white suburban youths want to be black? A special report. " ".... an increasing number of white youth are finding a new sense of self in black street life - as portrayed in rap music. Some of them are kids from the suburbs who dabble and pose as gangsta wannabes. Others are white youths living in the ghetto, from the Tenderloin, Potrero Hill or Hunter's Point, forced to wear the Teflon stares of the streets.In the hip-hop world, they're called wiggers (sometimes spelled wiggas), an East Coast term coined for white youths who try to act black. Initially derisive, for some it is now a badge of honor, just as some blacks revel in calling = themselves niggas. (Fact is, the n' word has reached color blind status in the hip-hop world, where whites, Filipinos, Samoans, Latinos and blacks freely trade it with and about each other, regardless of their racial identity.) " Goddam kids these days ... >=( Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com PS - I first saw the term "wigger" in a satirical piece by the National Lampoon, dated sometime in the late 70's. PPS - So, are you an "SFRava" ? If you feel you are, please explain why you are... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 10:31:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA14964; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:31:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA14939; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:31:10 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA23802; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:30:39 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:30:39 -0500 Message-ID: <961204133038_1387275010@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: plur@juno.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: what ravers do Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-12-04 10:29:38 EST, you write: << Sorry, what I meant to say is that ravers dont hit on anyone AT A RAVE.. And most of the people in a chill room are people to gone on e. And they are letting the E get the best of them and they don't care because they love each other and are together. They may be rubbing each others necks or whatever, but as long as they are not having sex its cool because they are enjoying their E properly. If they are having sex at a rave they dont have any PLUR they have SEX. Thatts not PLUR. Ravers don't hit on anyone at a rave. They become friends with a person. I don't know what your talking about comparing people laying on each other in a chill room to people that have got each others number and are going to hook up later. Thats a club! You don't hit on anyone at a rave becuase Its looked down on. I'm sorry you didn't know that, but now you know. >> I don't know about you buddy, but when i go to a rave i think about it as one huge dating game!!! Everyone is so gone off their asses that they will say yes to everything and before you know it you have more dates then Palm spring.(Palm springs has a lot of date trees!) You are writing some pretty heavy shit, I know this has been said before but before you post about what a raver is, remember everyone has their own OPINION on what a raver is, so please don't asssume everyone thinks like you and agrees with your OPINIONS and everythig will be fine( I think). Confused, Jonathan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 10:45:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA16366; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:45:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA16355; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:45:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.com (8.8.2/8.7.1) id KAA15468; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:45:27 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199612041845.KAA15468@xanadu.cyborganic.com> Subject: Re: South Bay Lunch To: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:45:26 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "knucklehead" at Dec 4, 96 08:52:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Again, if anybody is going to this lunch via the 101 and they are north of Willow Road near Menlo Park... and wants to give me a ride, let me know! -troy > > The lunch is still on for today at 12noon-1pm or whenever you need to get > back. It will be at Pedro's and the directions are as follows > > 101 S to Great America Pkwy / Bowers exit Turn left and go over > highway. > About the second light down there will be a Marriot on the right. > Turn right at that light. (I think it is Mission College or something > like that.) Second light after that is Freedom. Turn right. > Its down a ways on the right. > > 101 N to Great America Pkwy /Bowers exit Turn right (don't go over > highway.) > The rest of the directions are the same. > > You can kinda see it from the hwy 101. > > > I beleive the reservations are under SFRaves. Hope to see as many of you > there as possible. > > > > Tim (knucklehead) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:05:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA18519; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA18503; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:04:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.32.160.181] (wmf57.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.160.181]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA02100; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:04:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:04:47 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: what ravers do (+ gang thread comment) Cc: plur@juno.com, Jondabomb@aol.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >In a message dated 96-12-04 10:29:38 EST, you write: > ><< Sorry, what I meant to say is that ravers dont hit on anyone AT A RAVE.. >You are writing some pretty heavy shit, I know this has been said before but >before you post about what a raver is, remember everyone has their own >OPINION on what a raver is, so please don't asssume everyone thinks like you >and agrees with your OPINIONS and everythig will be fine( I think). > jonathan, you are so right! It's really ridiculous to assume that "ravers do this" or "ravers don't do that." I consider myself a "raver" (whatever THAT means.. =P ) and yet I have met people who I've been VERY into at raves, and yes, I've "hit on" them... sometimes while sober, mind you, so remeber it isn't always an "e" thing. I don't see how we can totally seperate ourselves from our human nature while at a party, and I see NOTHING wrong with letting someone know you're interested in them if you are. I don't think hitting on people is looked down upon... I think being disrespectful is looked down upon. Often, people are considered disrepectful when they are unnecessarily forward or one-track-minded (I've been on the recieving end of this kind of rude behaviour, so I'm well aware of how annoying and off-putting it can be) at parties, which I think SHOULD be looked down upon, but if you think so-&-so is a hottie and you can express that to him/her gracefully without being boorish or insulting, then why impose some kind of un-enforceable rule on yourself by saying that "ravers don't do that." I'm not EVEN going to add to the gangsta thread... gee whiz, people, stop snapping! when threads like this go on THIS long, I get the uncomfortable feeling that no one really cares about the subject anymore, they just want to get the "last word." Now THAT'S disrespectful... I mean, we've driven sherry (mhg) off the list with this mindless complaining; shouldn't it have ended there? she deserves a fatty apology. take care, -m. ---> B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S <----------------------------- michal migurski tel:510.548.3225 lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu www.cyborganic.com/people/lachim lachim@cyborganic.net ---------------> MASS-PRODUCED GRAPHICS FOR A BETTER TOMMORROW <--- artists united against cornea gumbo. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:06:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA18753; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:06:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA18747; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:06:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.178.41.41] ([205.178.41.41]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with ESMTP id LAA15273; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:04:27 -0800 X-Sender: branka@pop.sirius.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19961204.071347.3406.1.plur@juno.com> References: <32A52287.1714@netgate.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:05:35 -0800 To: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com), sfraves@hyperreal.com From: *B* Subject: Re: what ravers do Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Sorry, what I meant to say is that ravers dont hit on anyone AT A RAVE.. I am very sorry, but I think this statement is really stupid. Why wouldn't ravers hit on other ravers at a rave? For me, raves are what I do for fun, and majority of people I meet is at raves. And if I didn't have a boy-friend, and if I liked somebody at the rave (and of course had guts to do it) I would hit on people I liked.... I met my boy-friend Marc at Sunset, and we talked couple brief times at couple Sunsets, and that's how we hooked up - after Sunset :). That is people's most liked day-party, so I guess it can be classified as a rave. I also know a bunch of people who hooked up at raves in chill rooms and ended up going out for a while. I think what this is turning out to be is moral issue rather than "what real ravers" do. Also, ways people hit on other people is different. Some people are smart about it, and they find out if there is any potential, while others just go for it ignoring the signs of rejection. Some people have hard time going out with their friends, and the idea of meeting somebody, hitting it off, starting going out and getting to know them is way more appealing than the other way around (this is from personal experience). I am not saying that I would like the atmosphere at raves to be like it is in clubs "let's see if I can get laid" kind of thing, but if we can't be who we are something is wrong with that. I really hope I don't break up with Marc any time soon, because I am sure I will be looked down on considering that if - I am single - I meet somebody at the rave - I think things could work out - I am brave => I will hit on that person :) I guess that's cool - maybe I am not a "raver" - whatever that means :P. My opinion on this, *B* From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:13:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA19510; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:13:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from isp1.isp.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA19443; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:13:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.139.9.170] (sc170.isp.net [204.139.9.170]) by mail1.isp.net (8.7.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA27313; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:13:44 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: pasque@mail.isp.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199612032008.MAA03774@trix.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:10:55 -0700 To: -=Joe=- , Jay Wiley From: Gioni Pasquinelli Subject: Re: NRR: News article on drugs Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Last year I did a research paper on LSD and was surprised to find a couple recent articles about it. Of course most of the experiments are on rats and such much still very interesting work is being done with illegal drugs. You just have to look for them. There are a lot of neat, IMHO, science journals out there, you just need the time to read them all and you'll run across some very interesting stuff, amidst some other pretty boring stuff. Gioni Gioni pasque@isp.net www.isp.net/~pasque From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:14:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA19669; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:14:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA19605; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:13:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from Ebay.Sun.COM ([129.150.111.20]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id LAA22495 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:13:16 -0800 Received: from dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM by Ebay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id LAA22401; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:13:10 -0800 Received: by dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA25417; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:11:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:11:17 -0800 From: guillermo.lemus@Ebay.Sun.COM (Guillermo Lemus) Message-Id: <199612041911.LAA25417@dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR: TEST Cc: guillermo.lemus@Ebay.Sun.COM X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk THIS IS A TEST: testis, testis, one, chew, one, chew, chew ONE, CHEW, TREE, FROG ONE, CHEW, TREE, FROG From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:17:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA20030; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:17:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA19912; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:16:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BBE1D5.55F36A00@misnt1.rely.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:21:46 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'SFraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: "Doo youuu the way to San Jose?" Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:21:40 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello , Does anyone know how to get to Solid Grooves from N101 (i.e. Redwood City). Im fixin' to buyin' me a presale tix to _Onomatopoeia_ (Or whatever it's called). So this post is Rave related (Nayh, nayh...). Bonus NNR thread maker: What IS an Onomatopoeia??? ---Adam "Stay Connected..." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:18:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA20221; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:18:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA20212; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:18:29 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA28813; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:17:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:17:52 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: blkadder@value.net To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E #1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > >A different perspective perhaps, but *not* the only valid one. Personally, > >I find it difficult to believe that some one that is obviously > >intelligent could be so narrow-minded and short sighted as to believe that > >*they* and one other person on the list out of 400+ members that has valid > >thoughts and opinions on this subject. > > > > You asked for qualifications. I gave you mine, repeatedly. No, actually you have done nothing of the sort. Let's look at the question and response again shall we?(From previous post): > >So John, what you are saying is that the only people on this list > >qualified to speak on the subject of "gangstahs" and not be racist are > >yourself or Geoff? > > That is correct. Since I KNOW gangsters, and Geoff has had his run-in's > with a few. other than perhaps your dad, who was in Law Enforcement, you > arte quite correct. The fact that we are of African descent (not your dad > mind you ;) ), gives us a different perspective. Your qualifications are that you say you know gangsters. Does this give you a better insight into what a "true gangsta" is? Perhaps. Does this give you a more valid opinion on whether or not the term "gangsta/er/ah" is racist? Nope. > What are your qualifications sir? I did not say mine was the only valid > opinion, just a > more qualified one. Please stop twisitng my words and circumlocuting the > facts. talk straight and we can get somewhere. John, go reread your response to my question. You absolutely and unequivocally stated that youreslf and one other person on the list were the only ones qualified to speak on this subject. > >> I would say however that anyone who has had dealings with those in that > >> underworld, are better versed than many on this list who had very > >> middle/upper-middle calss upbringings. I would almost venture, by the > >> responses, that some have had isolated interactions with Africans or other > >> people of color. > > > >I absolutely agree. But you don't know my background, do you John? You > >don't know the background of most of the people on this list, do you John? > >You are making blanket assumptions, that are racially based on your > >perception of the constituentcy of this list. > > Please enlighten me as to your background, and your various interactions > with people of color. Since you and others have yet to pipe up about your > interactions, I can only assume, byt the nature of yours and others posts > as to what those interactions are. I can tell you this much, people who > have dealings with people of color on a daily basis in a peer-to-peer > scenario, are a bit more sensitive to the feelings of others. Something > currently lacking on this list. John, I would be more than happy to, if I thought for a minute that it would change your mind in the least. However, no matter what my background, no matter what the level of interaction with people of color I have had and currently have, it would never be enough to satisfy you, and would just be another thing for you to attempt to pick apart. > So far Adder you are the only one at this point who has mentioned race. > FYI. Yes, in response to *your* mention of it. > >Also, because someone may not be as well-versed does not invalidate their > >opinions, nor does it make them a racist. > > Using racist speech makes one suspect. You are sitting here, along with > others telling me that a word you chose does not have racists meanings. i > am here to disagree and tell you that it does. A community of 400+ has and > will have a difficult time redefining a negative word used in the common > culture. SOrry, my world is bigger than 400+ people. The real world is a > bigger and badder place. Negative word? Yes. Used in common culture? Yes. Racist? No. You have done absolutely nothing to prove your point. You have done nothing to show that the word is used in a racist context. > >I am not suprised by your vitrol John, merely disappointed that seemingly > >you will never be able to view anything on this earth or in the heavens > >without looking through the filter of color. > > A very real filter indeed. Ask Mc Duffie, Nat Turner, Malcolm X, ML King, > or Rodney King. I am disappointed that you do not have the capcity to > understand anything other than your own view; through rose colored glasses. I understand your view John, that is what disappoints me. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:24:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA20774; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:24:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from xinet.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA20769; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:24:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [131.106.110.23] by xinet.com via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) id LAA29392; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:25:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:25:17 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <19961204.071347.3406.1.plur@juno.com> <32A52287.1714@netgate.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: *B* , plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com), sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Tony Rotundo Subject: Re: what ravers do Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 7:05 PM -0000 12/4/96, *B* wrote: >>Sorry, what I meant to say is that ravers dont hit on anyone AT A RAVE.. > >I am very sorry, but I think this statement is really stupid. Why wouldn't >ravers hit on other ravers at a rave? For me, raves are what I do for fun, >and majority of people I meet is at raves. And if I didn't have a >boy-friend, and if I liked somebody at the rave (and of course had guts to >do it) I would hit on people I liked.... I can attest to this, for Branka's hit on ME at a rave.... :^* TR From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:35:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA21656; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA21649; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:35:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.134.114] (mg134-114.ricochet.net [204.179.134.114]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23103; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:29:36 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612041929.LAA23103@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: Re: Fwd: Categorizations... Date: Wed, 4 Dec 96 11:35:31 -0800 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: "John S. Lee" , "SFRaves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >And, pray-tell, what did I do wrong? > Is there any hope for any of us John? deeje From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:40:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA22236; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:40:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA22200; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:39:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA06600; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:39:55 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612041939.LAA06600@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E #1 To: blkadder@value.net Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:39:54 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "blkadder@value.net" at Dec 4, 96 11:17:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > > > > >A different perspective perhaps, but *not* the only valid one. Personally, > > >I find it difficult to believe that some one that is obviously > > >intelligent could be so narrow-minded and short sighted as to believe that > > >*they* and one other person on the list out of 400+ members that has valid > > >thoughts and opinions on this subject. > > > > > > > You asked for qualifications. I gave you mine, repeatedly. > > No, actually you have done nothing of the sort. Let's look at the question > and response again shall we?(From previous post): > > > > >So John, what you are saying is that the only people on this list > > >qualified to speak on the subject of "gangstahs" and not be racist are > > >yourself or Geoff? > > > > That is correct. Since I KNOW gangsters, and Geoff has had his run-in's > > with a few. other than perhaps your dad, who was in Law Enforcement, you > > arte quite correct. The fact that we are of African descent (not your dad > > mind you ;) ), gives us a different perspective. > > Your qualifications are that you say you know gangsters. Does this > give you a better insight into what a "true gangsta" is? Perhaps. Does > this give you a more valid opinion on whether or not the term > "gangsta/er/ah" is racist? Nope. No, you did not ask whther or not my opinion was more valid. Maybe you should re-read the question. You asked if I was more qualified to speak on the subject. I have answered that question. You are now engaging in tedious argument. > > > What are your qualifications sir? I did not say mine was the only valid > > opinion, just a > > more qualified one. Please stop twisitng my words and circumlocuting the > > facts. talk straight and we can get somewhere. > > John, go reread your response to my question. You absolutely and > unequivocally stated that youreslf and one other person on the list were > the only ones qualified to speak on this subject. > And that is what you asked. I do not think mine is the only valid opinion. I do say that I and a few others are more qualified to talk about the subject. Sheeit, everyone can have an opinion. But not everyone is qualified. You drew the line, not me. > > > > >> I would say however that anyone who has had dealings with those in that > > >> underworld, are better versed than many on this list who had very > > >> middle/upper-middle calss upbringings. I would almost venture, by the > > >> responses, that some have had isolated interactions with Africans or other > > >> people of color. > > > > > >I absolutely agree. But you don't know my background, do you John? You > > >don't know the background of most of the people on this list, do you John? > > >You are making blanket assumptions, that are racially based on your > > >perception of the constituentcy of this list. > > > > Please enlighten me as to your background, and your various interactions > > with people of color. Since you and others have yet to pipe up about your > > interactions, I can only assume, byt the nature of yours and others posts > > as to what those interactions are. I can tell you this much, people who > > have dealings with people of color on a daily basis in a peer-to-peer > > scenario, are a bit more sensitive to the feelings of others. Something > > currently lacking on this list. > > John, I would be more than happy to, if I thought for a minute that it > would change your mind in the least. However, no matter what my > background, no matter what the level of interaction with people of color I > have had and currently have, it would never be enough to satisfy you, and > would just be another thing for you to attempt to pick apart. > You're projecting, and as usual you did not answer the question/challenge. You can assume what you wish, I gave you the opportunity to clarify, and I can be swayed. But as usual, you stop the opportunity than embrace it. I see you just want to argue. > > So far Adder you are the only one at this point who has mentioned race. > > FYI. > > Yes, in response to *your* mention of it. And a round and round we go. There is no end for adder. > > > >Also, because someone may not be as well-versed does not invalidate their > > >opinions, nor does it make them a racist. > > > > Using racist speech makes one suspect. You are sitting here, along with > > others telling me that a word you chose does not have racists meanings. i > > am here to disagree and tell you that it does. A community of 400+ has and > > will have a difficult time redefining a negative word used in the common > > culture. SOrry, my world is bigger than 400+ people. The real world is a > > bigger and badder place. > > Negative word? Yes. > Used in common culture? Yes. > Racist? No. < - who says? > > You have done absolutely nothing to prove your point. You have done > nothing to show that the word is used in a racist context. The point is I took offense. I need not go any farther than that in a decent society, whatever that is. I now SFRaves may not be such a place on the whole, but I do know there are plenty who know what the f*ck I'm talking about. No matter how clueless you and others want to pretend to be. And you have done nothing to show my racist comments. damn you bait and switch alot my man. > > > >I am not suprised by your vitrol John, merely disappointed that seemingly > > >you will never be able to view anything on this earth or in the heavens > > >without looking through the filter of color. > > > > A very real filter indeed. Ask Mc Duffie, Nat Turner, Malcolm X, ML King, > > or Rodney King. I am disappointed that you do not have the capcity to > > understand anything other than your own view; through rose colored glasses. > > I understand your view John, that is what disappoints me. Sorry I live in the real world, deal with real issues and people. Have beena ffected by the society and see it for what it is. However, it does not taint me for I go to work each day. i still think humanity has a chance, and despite what you and others might think of me, I am very color blind. My son and my life are a testament to this fact. My Jewish heritage, albeit adopted, is furhter proff. As I said before my friend, I walk the walk. I live a pluralistic life, with people of all backgrounds and pursuaions, Muslims, Jews, Christians, black, white, asian, and everyone else. I got friends, friends, friends, and love all of them. Not becuase they are like me, but because they are idffernt than I. I am sensitive to each of them, and it is hard. But I would rather be a gentleman sesntive to others, than to run roughshod over thier feelings all for the sake of my expression. It's called respect. Maybe you should give some, you might get some in return. Peace out, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:40:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA22368; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:40:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA22355; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:40:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA06877; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:40:48 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612041940.LAA06877@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Fwd: Categorizations... To: deeje@pobox.com (deeje cooley) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:40:47 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199612041929.LAA23103@rgate.metricom.com> from "deeje cooley" at Dec 4, 96 11:35:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > >And, pray-tell, what did I do wrong? > > > > Is there any hope for any of us John? > > deeje > Yeah there is. Do that PLUR thing and really mean it. I think that is a start. For all of us. Out, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:42:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA22539; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:42:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA22535; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:42:43 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA00934; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:42:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:42:37 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: blkadder@value.net To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > >Is this a trick question? The people that participated in this survey were > >the people on this list, the people that were using the term, and the same > >people that explained that this term is not about color. So, I say again, > >perhaps you are out of context with which the term is used on this list. > > > Puhleeze Adder, you're becoming tedious. The point was that the results of > the survey would reflect the list. No kidding. If people on the list > found nothing wrong with the term I guess I should go in lock-step. I find > something wrong with it, and I didn't need no damn survey to tell me how I > should feel. It's a code word, no matter what a damn survey says. This is indeed getting tired. How can it be a code word, when the people that have used it have explained that they have applied it not on the basis of color, but of attitude, and they have applied it to whites also? > > >> As for context, perhaps it is the people on this list who are out of > >> touch..with reality perhaps? As the great OJ Simpson said "Go figure." > > > >I suppose that this would depend on whose reality we were discussing. I > >might also suggest you pick better role models, but of course, that is > >your prerogative. > > I would advise you not to advise me on good role models. OJ Simpson was a > great footbal player...but he was a much better butcher! This is exactly my point. He was a great football player. I am sure hundreds of years from now, all of society is going to be indebted to the great sport stars in our history for their overwhelming contributions to the cause of humanity. > > "The butcher with the sharpest knife, has the warmest heart." > > > > >> >> I will not cry for your whiteness, nor will I bash you for it. But if > >> >> you do like to use the term gangstah so much, I just might lable you a > >> >> racist. > >> > > >> >I am ambivalant about the term, because it is not a racist term. *YOU* > >> >have taken it as such. > > No it is a racist term, you would wish it weren't and that nobody > challenged you on it. I am startting to doubt whether for you there is > anything that is classified as racist speech. I am happy to explain my use of the word to you, given your perception that the word is racist, and mine that it is not. And you should know better than to make that last remark, of course I still see racist speech. > >There is nothing to defend, although explanations are warranted given your > >perception of this term. > > I heard the explantions. I reject them. Now, where do we go from here? I > am willing to stop the bullshit, if and when we decide to stop using code > words. That is where we are...now what? And I reject your interpretation of the word. And if sometime in the future I use the word on this list, I will again happily explain that I do not apply this word based on race. > > > >> >> But then, white males have been labelling things for centuries. > >> > > >> >So what's this about not bashing people for their whiteness? > >> > >> Matter of fact sir. Need I remind you of American history? Bashing? This > >> is a fact. > > > >John, you made a statement that you would not bash people for their > >whiteness. How can you accuse others of bigotry when you are blind to > >your own? > > What did I say that was bigoted. Please specify. OK: > And I do wish that many of you white males would stop using code words to > indetify people of color. Enough of the veiled racist bullshit that has > invaded this list. I take this as many of the white males on this list are saying racists things. > >> >> But then, white males have been labelling things for centuries. What is the point of this? Just another jab at people based on their color. Of course this is all "matter of fact" to you, but this makes it no less deragatory. The last part of your message got garbled, so not quite sure what you said.... Really, I don't know if it makes much difference. You believe one thing, I believe another. We are not going to agree on this. BLack Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:43:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA22589; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:43:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA22580; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:43:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BBE1D9.23B79FD0@misnt1.rely.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:49:00 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: RE: what ravers do Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:48:58 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk (With dawning realization of horror) You people ARE all Ganstas!!!! With all this violent posting of people hitting each other. Oh! MY SENSITIVE EYES!!!!! >=O --Adam >---------- >From: Tony Rotundo >Subject: Re: what ravers do > >At 7:05 PM -0000 12/4/96, *B* wrote: >>>Sorry, what I meant to say is that ravers dont hit on anyone AT A RAVE.. >> >>Why wouldn't >>ravers hit other ravers at a rave? For me, raves are what I do for fun, >>and majority of people I meet is at raves. >>if I liked somebody at the rave (and of course had guts to >>do it) I would hit on people I liked.... > > >I can attest to this, for Branka's hit ME at a rave.... > >(These statements warped for my amusment...) > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:50:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA23358; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA23353; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from kelly.teleport.com (kelly.teleport.com [192.108.254.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04755 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:50:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chicchan@localhost) by kelly.teleport.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id LAA19180; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:49:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:49:25 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: frisco groovers Subject: to change the subject...(sfraves) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk i'm flying in once again, this time with my AHAU cohort Manoj...yeah!!!! we arrive Fri. Dec. 20 a little after 1pm. is Mantra happening that night? Randy? brenda :) __ __ __ __ / \ / \ / \ / \ ****** Chicchan Lahuna ****** __________/ __\/ __\/ _\/ __\________________________________ _________/ /__/ /__/ /__/______________________________________ | / \ / \ / \ / \ \____ |/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \ o \ \_____/--< AHAU Collective (503) 237-AHAU http://www.ahau.com/~chicchan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:55:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA23932; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:55:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA23872; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.134.114] (mg134-114.ricochet.net [204.179.134.114]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA25597; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:50:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612041950.LAA25597@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E #2 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 96 11:56:53 -0800 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: "John S. Lee" , "SFRaves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Race is a part of American society, face it, or not, you're living in it, >and you use the terms of opression. You can call it what you will, I will >not shut up about it until we stop the name calling and start looking at >people as people. Nothing more or less. so, John, are you saying that using the term "gansta" is a racial slur? I just want to understand. Your posts are filled with so much anger that your points aren't as clear. peace deeje -------------------------------------------------------------------------- deeje cooley Journeyman Software -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 11:59:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA24284; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:59:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA24268; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:58:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id LAA04682; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:58:27 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id LAA18631; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:58:25 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:58:25 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: to change the subject...(sfraves) To: Brenda Brewer cc: frisco groovers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Brenda Brewer wrote: > i'm flying in once again, this time with my AHAU cohort Manoj...yeah!!!! > we arrive Fri. Dec. 20 a little after 1pm. =) > is Mantra happening that > night? Randy? Sorry but no. Mantra is the first friday of every month (this friday 12/6). It is too bad you have to return so soon. The Mantra in January (1/3/97) just happens to be on my birthday. =) hugz, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 12:05:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA25035; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA25012; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:05:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id MAA10209; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:05:39 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612042005.MAA10209@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E #2 To: deeje@pobox.com (deeje cooley) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:05:39 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199612041950.LAA25597@rgate.metricom.com> from "deeje cooley" at Dec 4, 96 11:56:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > >Race is a part of American society, face it, or not, you're living in it, > >and you use the terms of opression. You can call it what you will, I will > >not shut up about it until we stop the name calling and start looking at > >people as people. Nothing more or less. > > so, John, are you saying that using the term "gansta" is a racial slur? > > I just want to understand. Your posts are filled with so much anger that > your points aren't as clear. > > peace > > deeje First off, I am not angry. Not yet that is, but give me a few days. I'll get there. Yessir, I am saying that using the term gangstah to describe people is racially charged. Especially within the context it is often used on this list. I would like it to stop. I take great offense. It is just like some caucasian person who tries to "re-define" the racially charged word n****r so that he can use it ad nauseam. I just want the name calling to stop. Either it will cease, or I will not shut up. I think we can find different ways to describe people that do not have the "vibe", rahter than resorting to devisive name calling, such as gangstah. >From all that I have read, explanation after explanation, I *do* understand that many mean nothing by it. Just like the guy the other day who called me colored. He meant nothing by it, it is just a term he uses to describe people with my melanin rich skin content (a real belssing IMO! :) :) ). But I took offense and let him know it was not appropriate. He did not try to explanin waht he meant, he said sorry, and I have yet to hear him utter the term again. Nice, easy resolution. And he never resorted to using PLUR or other slogans. He just realized someone was offended, offered and apology, and now watches what he says and is aware of the charged nature of the word. I said nothing more to him of it, and I have ha plenty of conversations with him about many things, race not being one of them. That is only for my close friends. ;) All I ask is that people be considerate of others feelings. I don't call women bitches or hoes. Why? It is disrespectful. Are my points so important as to make others uncomfortable for the sake of me expressing my opinion in vitriol and devisive words? No, nothing is really that important. People are important, and how they feel is important, and how they view themselves in our world and thier place in it is of utmost importance. Gangstah reduces people to object level. Just like n****r, just like bi*ch, and h*e. Why use them I think the people on this list, with all thier education can come up with other words to describe people they have problems with. I have always thought humans to be better than that. But I am always disappointed. Anyway, I am not angry. Furious? Maybe. Pissed-off? Sometimes. But not angry.... :) <- now are you seeing this...I mean this ok? (geez) Anyway that's about it for me. Peace out, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 12:08:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA25422; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:08:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate.Cadence.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA25371; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:08:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.Cadence.COM (8.6.8/8.6.8) id MAA25656; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:07:57 -0800 Received: from cds9258.cadence.com(158.140.32.4) by mailgate.Cadence.COM via smap (V1.0mjr) id sma849730075.025443; Wed Dec 4 12:07:55 1996 Received: from [158.140.7.223] (mac527.cadence.com [158.140.7.223]) by cds9258.Cadence.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06585; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:19:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 10:19:41 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: noah@cds9258 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead), sfraves@hyperreal.com From: noah@cadence.com (Noah Ruiz) Subject: Re: South Bay Lunch Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'll more than likely be there! I hope $7.00 and some change will do!!!??? Whos all going? Noah Ruiz At 4:52 PM 12/4/96, knucklehead wrote: >The lunch is still on for today at 12noon-1pm or whenever you need to get >back. It will be at Pedro's and the directions are as follows > > 101 S to Great America Pkwy / Bowers exit Turn left and go over > highway. > About the second light down there will be a Marriot on the right. > Turn right at that light. (I think it is Mission College or something > like that.) Second light after that is Freedom. Turn right. > Its down a ways on the right. > > 101 N to Great America Pkwy /Bowers exit Turn right (don't go over > highway.) > The rest of the directions are the same. > >You can kinda see it from the hwy 101. > > >I beleive the reservations are under SFRaves. Hope to see as many of you >there as possible. > > > >Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 12:13:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA26113; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:13:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from iceberg.anchorage.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA26086; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from compromised.n0b0dy.org (val-ca3-55.ix.netcom.com [206.217.130.119]) by iceberg.anchorage.net (8.6.11/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03349 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:10:21 -0900 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 11:10:21 -0900 Message-Id: <199612042010.LAA03349@iceberg.anchorage.net> X-Sender: tymat@iceberg.anchorage.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Strawberry Flavored Stuff Subject: Re: Where to get lightsticks? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk SEARS hardware sells em. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 12:24:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA27163; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA27154; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:24:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from kelly.teleport.com (kelly.teleport.com [192.108.254.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA19133; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:24:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chicchan@localhost) by kelly.teleport.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id MAA22351; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:23:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:23:31 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: frisco groovers cc: The Teknowers Subject: open hearts...(SF) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk open homes. (KRR-kinda rave related because we want to go to a rave!) i'm in a silly mood today...anyway. previously on my journeys down there many of you kind folk have offered to share your hearth whilst I visit your lovely city but i deleted your msgs and can't remember who. manoj and i are looking for comfortable accomodations in the city so we have access to transit and so on and so forth. we come down solely to share light and love so if that sounds good to you please email privately. love, brenda :) __ __ __ __ / \ / \ / \ / \ ****** Chicchan Lahuna ****** __________/ __\/ __\/ _\/ __\________________________________ _________/ /__/ /__/ /__/______________________________________ | / \ / \ / \ / \ \____ |/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \ o \ \_____/--< AHAU Collective (503) 237-AHAU http://www.ahau.com/~chicchan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 12:31:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA27858; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:31:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from adeskgate.autodesk.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA27838; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:30:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from autodesk.autodesk.com by adeskgate.autodesk.com (8.6.12/SMI-5.3) with ESMTP id MAA24195; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:30:20 -0800 Received: from klaatu.autodesk.com by autodesk.autodesk.com (8.6.12/4.4BSD) with ESMTP id MAA26736; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:29:41 -0800 Received: (from robertr@localhost) by klaatu.autodesk.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA24778; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:29:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:29:37 -0800 (PST) From: Rob Rayle Message-Id: <199612042029.MAA24778@klaatu.autodesk.com> To: grigsby@netgate.net, star@sfsu.edu Subject: Re: NRR: Humans & other animals Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk We humans *in our complete and total objectivity* consider a high ratio of brain size to body size and the ability to make and use tools the main criteria for how "advanced" a species is. Strangely enough, other species have totally different criteria. For giraffes, it's mostly length of the neck. The marine mammals consider the ability to hold the breath underwater for a long time quite significant. Many plant species feel that if you can't maintain a perfect meditative state indefinitely while synthesizing your own food from sunlight and taking in only what water and minerals the universe sends you, you are a troglodyte. > I appreciate that Grigsbeast may feel that he would be exhibiting > arrogance by calling humanity the most advanced lifeform on the planet. > At least that seems to be a common concern of humans uncomfortable with > the idea of the primacy of our species. > But the evidence we have points to this being true; surely > speaking truth does not make one arrogant. "Disrespecting" lower life > forms is perhaps a sign of arrogance, but recognizing that they are lower > is not. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 12:31:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA27879; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:31:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from PACBELL.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA27857; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (pablin@ppp-206-170-28-47.wnck11.pacbell.net [206.170.28.47]) by PACBELL.net (8.7.6/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA23956; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:30:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961204202103.006db028@pacbell.net> X-Sender: pablin@pacbell.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 12:21:03 -0800 To: Karen Hardie From: Pablo Beck Subject: Re: Colds At Raves Cc: plur@juno.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >I usually only share water with people that i know. I bring in my own >bottle and fill up from whatever taps are around. I know this isn't >foolproof, but it saves me money, and i usually know which one of my >friends is ill :) Why didn't I think about that? I guess E makes you so happy that you love to share and be happy with others... Now I'm paying for it :( I'm reallly sick allz! :( help. >I used to share water indiscriminately, but being sick all the time made >me feel that it was all right to be selfish on these occasions. Besides, >REAL ravers take care of their own water ;) How about bringin two water bottles...one to share and one for yourself? :) Pab From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 12:37:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA28555; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:37:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA28543; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:37:02 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA05434; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:36:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:36:47 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: blkadder@value.net To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E #1 In-Reply-To: <199612041939.LAA06600@netcom20.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > > Your qualifications are that you say you know gangsters. Does this > > give you a better insight into what a "true gangsta" is? Perhaps. Does > > this give you a more valid opinion on whether or not the term > > "gangsta/er/ah" is racist? Nope. > > No, you did not ask whther or not my opinion was more valid. Maybe you > should re-read the question. You asked if I was more qualified to speak > on the subject. I have answered that question. You are now engaging in > tedious argument. No, I did not. John *RE-READ* what I asked: > > > >So John, what you are saying is that the only people on this list > > > >qualified to speak on the subject of "gangstahs" and not be racist are > > > >yourself or Geoff? I did not say "more qualifed" I said "the only people on this list qualified." which you answered in the affirmative. > > > > > What are your qualifications sir? I did not say mine was the only valid > > > opinion, just a > > > more qualified one. Please stop twisitng my words and circumlocuting the > > > facts. talk straight and we can get somewhere. > > > > John, go reread your response to my question. You absolutely and > > unequivocally stated that youreslf and one other person on the list were > > the only ones qualified to speak on this subject. > > > > And that is what you asked. I do not think mine is the only valid > opinion. I do say that I and a few others are more qualified to talk > about the subject. Sheeit, everyone can have an opinion. But not > everyone is qualified. You drew the line, not me. But that is not what you stated originally, at all. From you and Geoff as the only people qualified to speak on the subject, we have gone to yours is not the only valid opinion but you and a few others are more qualified. At least that's a start. You still have not given any qualifications that make your opinion on whether the use of the word is racist more valid than any other persons. > > > Please enlighten me as to your background, and your various interactions > > > with people of color. Since you and others have yet to pipe up about your > > > interactions, I can only assume, byt the nature of yours and others posts > > > as to what those interactions are. I can tell you this much, people who > > > have dealings with people of color on a daily basis in a peer-to-peer > > > scenario, are a bit more sensitive to the feelings of others. Something > > > currently lacking on this list. > > > > John, I would be more than happy to, if I thought for a minute that it > > would change your mind in the least. However, no matter what my > > background, no matter what the level of interaction with people of color I > > have had and currently have, it would never be enough to satisfy you, and > > would just be another thing for you to attempt to pick apart. > > > > You're projecting, and as usual you did not answer the > question/challenge. You can assume what you wish, I gave you the > opportunity to clarify, and I can be swayed. But as usual, you stop the > opportunity than embrace it. I see you just want to argue. John, I don't think in the same way you do. I don't view everything as color. I don't like to, because that is not what I feel things are about. But since you insist on me explaining my background in your paridigm I will: Childhood: Military brat(my father was an enlisted man, not an officer.) The military is indeed very racially mixed, and a lot of places that I lived were military housing, where I played with all kinds of people. My best friend for 3 years was Damian, who was black. We moved from Germany back to Sausalito, where I went to Martin Luther King Junior High, a predominately black school. My father got out of the military, and I moved to the canal district of San Rafael, which is primarily latino and asian-pacific islanders. Best friends for the 2 years I was there were Benji, a black guy, and Alecia, a white girl. Moved to Fairfield. Fairly white-bred neighborhood. Went to high-school at Fairfield high. Hung out in the Drama dept. known as the "drama freaks" in high-school lingo. Pretty diverse group of people. Best friend for the first couple of years was a guy named Kelvin, who happened to be asian. My high-school sweetheart was Debbie, who is Mexican. Graduated high school, got a job, yadda yadda. Moved all over the place in Sac, Davis, Dixon, S.F., and back to Fairfield, off of Deleware, where one could softly fall asleep to the sounds of gunshots. The neighborhood is of mixed nationality. Got to see lots of XIV crap, and the people like the color blue. Currently I live in a predominately Latino neighborhood in Concord. There. Are you happy now John? I'm not. I *HATE* thinking in these terms John. These are not the terms that I think or live in. I cannot express to you the intensity with which I abhor thinking of places I have been, and people I have interacted with in terms of color. I really would hate to be you. I am done with this discussion. This is your chance for the last word. Go for it, I will not respond. I will continue to use whatever language I wish, you can take it whatever way you wish, despite explanations to the contrary. What I will not do is limit myself, or force myself to view the world in terms of peoples race as I have been forced to do in this form. It disgusts me. You do that John. Keep on being angry. When your done, look at some of the words you have written that talk about unity and try applying them, *TO EVERYONE* Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 12:43:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id MAA29320; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:43:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA29306; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:43:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id MAA14457; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:43:22 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612042043.MAA14457@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: shitty post --> sober raving & E To: blkadder@value.net Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 12:43:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "blkadder@value.net" at Dec 4, 96 11:42:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > >Is this a trick question? The people that participated in this survey were > > >the people on this list, the people that were using the term, and the same > > >people that explained that this term is not about color. So, I say again, > > >perhaps you are out of context with which the term is used on this list. > > > > > > Puhleeze Adder, you're becoming tedious. The point was that the results of > > the survey would reflect the list. No kidding. If people on the list > > found nothing wrong with the term I guess I should go in lock-step. I find > > something wrong with it, and I didn't need no damn survey to tell me how I > > should feel. It's a code word, no matter what a damn survey says. > > This is indeed getting tired. I know I'm through. Isn't there a drug party going on this weekend or something? > > How can it be a code word, when the people that have used it have > explained that they have applied it not on the basis of color, but of > attitude, and they have applied it to whites also? > I understand how people use it. I also understand that outside the list it is a code word. So, how do we reconcile realities? > > > > >> As for context, perhaps it is the people on this list who are out of > > >> touch..with reality perhaps? As the great OJ Simpson said "Go figure." > > > > > >I suppose that this would depend on whose reality we were discussing. I > > >might also suggest you pick better role models, but of course, that is > > >your prerogative. > > > > I would advise you not to advise me on good role models. OJ Simpson was a > > great footbal player...but he was a much better butcher! > > This is exactly my point. He was a great football player. I am sure > hundreds of years from now, all of society is going to be indebted to the > great sport stars in our history for their overwhelming contributions to > the cause of humanity. Or at least the neverending cause of cutlery. I mean, that sneak attack was brilliant. First he cut up two people cause he was pissed. Next he sneaked atacked the jury by using a racist cop to dismantle any argument of evidence against OJ. And he sneaked attacked humanity cause we still talk about the shit. And he's still free! Straight Jackin', the way only a human can do! (Disclaimer: I am NOT an OJ fan. You allk are very lucky I am a very reasonable black man. Look at it like this, I could be OJ and you all would be really anxious now. ;) ) > > > > > > "The butcher with the sharpest knife, has the warmest heart." > > > > > > > >> >> I will not cry for your whiteness, nor will I bash you for it. But if > > >> >> you do like to use the term gangstah so much, I just might lable you a > > >> >> racist. > > >> > > > >> >I am ambivalant about the term, because it is not a racist term. *YOU* > > >> >have taken it as such. > > > > No it is a racist term, you would wish it weren't and that nobody > > challenged you on it. I am startting to doubt whether for you there is > > anything that is classified as racist speech. > > I am happy to explain my use of the word to you, given your perception > that the word is racist, and mine that it is not. Like I said, how do we reconcile realities. This extends beyond our current discussion, but I think as we approach such subjects there is a disconnect. What is real and valid, and what is not? Where are the lines AND who draws them? > > And you should know better than to make that last remark, of course I > still see racist speech. > I am now informed. > > >There is nothing to defend, although explanations are warranted given your > > >perception of this term. > > > > I heard the explantions. I reject them. Now, where do we go from here? I > > am willing to stop the bullshit, if and when we decide to stop using code > > words. That is where we are...now what? > > And I reject your interpretation of the word. And if sometime in the > future I use the word on this list, I will again happily explain that I do > not apply this word based on race. > Well, that's one way to use a word. Provide a disclaimer, use it to your hearts content. Man, I wish the rest of life were so easy. > > > > > >> >> But then, white males have been labelling things for centuries. > > >> > > > >> >So what's this about not bashing people for their whiteness? > > >> > > >> Matter of fact sir. Need I remind you of American history? Bashing? This > > >> is a fact. > > > > > >John, you made a statement that you would not bash people for their > > >whiteness. How can you accuse others of bigotry when you are blind to > > >your own? > > > > What did I say that was bigoted. Please specify. > > OK: > > > And I do wish that many of you white males would stop using code words to > > indetify people of color. Enough of the veiled racist bullshit that has > > invaded this list. Answer this: -Who redefined the word. head count please larry. -Who , in past posts, uses or has used it? demographics someone? I beleive I have the answer, which is why I made the statement in the first place. Like I said, if I was wrong then indicate so. I do not see how my citing facts as to who uses what words, and who redefines them as racist. I am not the one trying to label anyone, I just would like poiple to stop calling people THEY DON'T KNOW names. And perhps these are inappropriate names to begin with. Who uses terms are just as important as who they're directed at. > > I take this as many of the white males on this list are saying racists > things. > I have private correspondence, citing racist lnaguage and phrases, sexit shenanigans, to name a few. Cultural insensitivity abounds. Now of course, you and others may not see wht I see, hear what I hear, or live my life. But that does not make the circumstances any less real or invalid. This list is a microcosm of our bay area. The bay areas demographics have changed, certainly. But those with the technology and the know how has not changed. I do not hold anyone to a litmus test. You are who you are. I do expect though that since we've all partied together at some point, at some time, that we would begin to see eahc other as humans, and not degrade to name calling or categorizations. I have seen plenty. When this scene was more diverse, and yes less white than it is now, there was not all this talk of gangsters, bad 'tude and such. I saw all kinds of motherfuckers at parties. Many of whom fit the descripotion that is used here; gangstah. And you know something, I never witnessed an incident. I have witnessed people jumping on decks fighting the DJ. I have witnessed people so blissed out they couldn't walk. I have heard stores of sexual abuse and other rubbish. And I must say, the perpetrators do not fit the "gangstah" description. They are/were regular party people, or so they seemed. I see people on the list pass great judgement against others for nothing more than they aren't in the same headspace, and thus they must be a such and such. Don't you see what you're becoming? Is THIS is what raves/parties is all about? Is it THAT important for you and others to classify those who do not fit your neat mold so that you can somehow feel better or superior to those you reject, or are different than you? It's really not at all, that much about race, as it is respect. respect for other humans whose lives might be vastly differnet than your own. Hell, if most of the folx on the list were paying attention to the music and thier feet, they wouldn't notice WHO was crossing thier arms or vibing. Why pay 5-$20 to go to a party and pay attnetion to not the music, but who ain't dancing? Is this high school or something? I dunno. FFOr weeks I was silent as this list wne ton and on about gangstah this and that. Sheeit, and the lot of you, many of you, don't have any basis for comparison. You just all jump on the "we're better than THEY are" bandwagon and hitch a ride. Yep, really plur, really rave...really whatever. If you, or the group spent as much time getting organized and presenting a political or some other force, you wouldn't be gobbling for spaces, for money for spaces, against cops, against promoters, etc. But no, we got plenty of time to decide who and what is gangstah and who is not. Who is dancing and who is not. Who is judging and who is not. What we're not doing is having a good time. We ain't dancing because: -You hate circle dancers (sheeit, they if nobody else has kept this sorry ass scene alive). -You hate people who don't hug and smile. -You hate those that don't embrace some rave ethic even you don't follow. -You hate them cuz they ain't like us. The only thing I can think that most people on the list like is people like themselves. So much for a viable scene, since it was built on the foundation of sameness in dance, not sameness of culture. Common or otherwise. > > >> >> But then, white males have been labelling things for centuries. > > What is the point of this? Just another jab at people based on their > color. The point: It is a mtter of historical fact that white males have done a greta job at pigeonholing as much as they can. Even the concept of race is rooted deep in european history. Many of our modern concepts of race sprang from the minds of brilliant european scientist, who spend centuries traveling, spreading disease, and catalogging as much as they could. It's not a jab, just another point at which realities cross. As the forefatthers did, so do thier sons and duaghters. Certainly not ALL are guilty, and my comments are for those who badny such terms and code words around. Not everyone is guilty, which is why I am very careful to limit my the population to this list. I really do like everyone, until they fuck me over. I got friends from all over, and everyone that I've met in SF, to date, has been really cool. The coolest thing about my experiences here is that none of my friends look remotely the same. That is where I'm coming from Adder. I hate nobody, and I am not a racist. You use speech to categorize people, I then inform you that this is in context with present and past european thought. Is that racist or is that a fact? You're right. We may never agree. > > Of course this is all "matter of fact" to you, but this makes it no less > deragatory. > > The last part of your message got garbled, so not quite sure what you > said.... > Fucking Netcom. I need a new provider. Any comments would be very welcome. > Really, I don't know if it makes much difference. You believe one thing, I > believe another. We are not going to agree on this. > > BLack Adder that's cool Adder. Once again, we must agree to disagree on this issue. Suffice it to say it has not been the first time it has happened, nor the last. I do take solace though that when the moon is right, you, I, and others agree. It might happen less often, but it does happen. And I see that opportunity as manna from heaven. Why? Because, in the end, everyone on this list, really deep underneath the melanin fakeout, we all want the same thing. Like I asked before...when in the next party? Peace, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 13:11:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA01878; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:11:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA01863; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:11:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id NAA18122; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:11:27 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612042111.NAA18122@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Long and silly looking... To: blkadder@value.net Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:11:26 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "blkadder@value.net" at Dec 4, 96 12:36:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > > > > > Your qualifications are that you say you know gangsters. Does this > > > give you a better insight into what a "true gangsta" is? Perhaps. Does > > > this give you a more valid opinion on whether or not the term > > > "gangsta/er/ah" is racist? Nope. > > > > No, you did not ask whther or not my opinion was more valid. Maybe you > > should re-read the question. You asked if I was more qualified to speak > > on the subject. I have answered that question. You are now engaging in > > tedious argument. > > No, I did not. John *RE-READ* what I asked: > > > > > >So John, what you are saying is that the only people on this list > > > > >qualified to speak on the subject of "gangstahs" and not be racist are > > > > >yourself or Geoff? > > I did not say "more qualifed" I said "the only people on this list qualified." > > which you answered in the affirmative. I stand corrected. Anyway, as I have said before, I am qualified, Unless you know have met, or hung with gangstahs, you are not. You can have all the opinions you want, and that is cool. But unless they are based in fact, it is nothing more than a stereotype. Oh yeah, IMO, of course. > > > > > > > What are your qualifications sir? I did not say mine was the only valid > > > > opinion, just a > > > > more qualified one. Please stop twisitng my words and circumlocuting the > > > > facts. talk straight and we can get somewhere. > > > > > > John, go reread your response to my question. You absolutely and > > > unequivocally stated that youreslf and one other person on the list were > > > the only ones qualified to speak on this subject. > > > > > > > And that is what you asked. I do not think mine is the only valid > > opinion. I do say that I and a few others are more qualified to talk > > about the subject. Sheeit, everyone can have an opinion. But not > > everyone is qualified. You drew the line, not me. > > But that is not what you stated originally, at all. From you and Geoff as > the only people qualified to speak on the subject, we have gone to yours > is not the only valid opinion but you and a few others are more qualified. > At least that's a start. You still have not given any qualifications that > make your opinion on whether the use of the word is racist more valid than > any other persons. It is how words are perceived. And perceptions often differ to intentions. > John, I don't think in the same way you do. I don't view everything as > color. I don't like to, because that is not what I feel things are about. > But since you insist on me explaining my background in your paridigm I > will: Adder, you don't know how I think. The only thing you know is that I think the word gangstah is derrogatory for racially historical reasons. [Adder shares his life history with me...I am thankful!] (P.S. thanks Adder) > I'm not. I *HATE* thinking in these terms John. These are not the terms > that I think or live in. I cannot express to you the intensity with which > I abhor thinking of places I have been, and people I have interacted with > in terms of color. I really would hate to be you. I did not ask you to define your friends in terms of color. That was up to you. If you were to say I had a variety of friends, that would've been enough. If you were to say to me I have friends from many different places and backgrounds, that would have been sufficient. As time goes on, our country will stop thinking in racial terms, we are not there yet. You may be the first Homo Nova come to think of it, so you may very well be well ahead of the curve. I do admire your thought process though and am respectful of it. I also know others, and many in society do not think in such terms. And as long as they are in power, they will be defining the terms. As long as they define the terms, we will be left to figure or fight it out. In the long run, the concept of race will not last. As for hating to be me, I wouldn't know. I'm having to good of a time being John S. Lee that I wouldn't know what it felt like to hate myself. My ego is too large, my ways too flamboyant, my mind to vast, to limit myself to such an emotion of hatred, much less for myself. I am very glad to be me, every day I wake up and breathe (A real gift considering all the club abuse to my lungs). Peace out, and next time Adder, don't be so pensive. Talk to me for g_d's sake, and tell me how you really feel! ;) Peace out my man, John > > I am done with this discussion. This is your chance for the last word. Go > for it, I will not respond. > Now you always threaten this. I'll tell you what, I'll drop it too. > I will continue to use whatever language I wish, you can take it whatever > way you wish, despite explanations to the contrary. And if it hurts me, I will call you to the mat and we'll do this again. > What I will not do is > limit myself, or force myself to view the world in terms of peoples race > as I have been forced to do in this form. It disgusts me. I see. Please do not limit yourself, I would not ask you to do so. And if you're going to check out so thoroughyl from the outside view, why not stop using terms used by the world so couched in race. Come up with your own word for an undesirable with an attitude. > You do that > John. Keep on being angry. I am not angry. That is your limited perception from your limited view of who I am. You just keep on shutting out the world, create a new one, and limit yourself out of the one you checked out of some time ago. > When your done, look at some of the words you > have written that talk about unity and try applying them, *TO EVERYONE* > > I will and have and do. Maybe you should walk the walk sometimes and get some sensitivity instead. There are, after all, more worlds than your own. Deal with it. Out, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 13:15:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA02399; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:15:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout13.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA02347; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:15:00 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout13.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA23000 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:14:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:14:08 -0500 Message-ID: <961204161407_1985948937@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: What makes a rave Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ok, when i go to a party i find that the people (my friends) and the music and space all are what keeps me going. Im just trying to find out why other people are drawn to what we call Raves. I find(since i don't imbibe in drugs, beside's pot) that I can get high of other people who are high. Wierd I know, but if everyone Im with is on E, i tend to get happy and feel really good. I'm not really affected much by the people. If there are hoodlums there that doesn't bug me, and if there are a bunch of candy ravers that doesn't bug, I just make the most of it. SO if we could just get a comment from people here on Sfraves as to what makes the party for you, i think we could get a better understanding of each other!!! K? Good! = ) Jonathan --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: What makes a rave Date: 96-12-04 16:13:45 EST From: Jondabomb To: sfraves@hyperrea.com Ok, when i go to a party i find that the people (my friends) and the music and space all are what keeps me going. Im just trying to find out why other people are drawn to what we call Raves. I find(since i don't imbibe in drugs, beside's pot) that I can get high of other people who are high. Wierd I know, but if everyone Im with is on E, i tend to get happy and feel really good. I'm not really affected much by the people. If there are hoodlums there that doesn't bug me, and if there are a bunch of candy ravers that doesn't bug, I just make the most of it. SO if we could just get a comment from people here on Sfraves as to what makes the party for you, i think we could get a better understanding of each other!!! K? Good! = ) Jonathan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 13:18:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA02858; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA02851; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA03416 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:16:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:16:15 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Ward To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: S.Bay lunch (full of beans) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Nice to meet all you headz today. Sorry I had to eat and run, but this is my last week at work and i feel like being a little productive (I was eying andy's shot of tequila the whole time). Oh, and I promise not to be so wired on coffee next time:) -peace- alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 13:36:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA04525; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:36:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from xinet.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA04481; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [131.106.110.23] by xinet.com via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) id NAA02817; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:37:09 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:37:09 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199612042111.NAA18122@netcom20.netcom.com> References: from "blkadder@value.net" at Dec 4, 96 12:36:47 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee), blkadder@value.net From: Tony Rotundo Subject: Re: Long and silly looking... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 9:11 PM -0000 12/4/96, John S. Lee wrote: >And if it hurts me, I will call you to the mat and we'll do this again. AH...A good ole wrestling match! Right on! I could make this happen...Seriously! Wonder how many raving wrestlers there are out there...=) Tone From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 13:48:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA05638; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:48:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA05627; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA04731 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:47:50 -0800 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199612042147.NAA04731@trix.cisco.com> Subject: NRR: Save The Cather In The Rye To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:47:49 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Figured some of you might be interested in something dealing with censorship. j >> >>Dear assorted Swatties, Glynn Academy alums, old friends, co-workers or >>whoever you may be: >> >>Much as I have come to dislike email petitions in general, I find myself >>now starting one. It's not the most life-threatening of issues (unless you >>count the First Amendment as one of those!) but it is important to me >>because it is taking place in my high school right now. So please, please, >>participate in this one. Thanks, >> >>Kelli >> >>************************************************************* >>The public school system in Glynn County, Georgia is currently involved in >>a controversy over First Amendment rights in the school curriculum. Last >>spring a student decided that the book "Catcher in the Rye," a standard in >>the 11th-grade curriculum, was too explicit for her liking and that it did >>not belong in the school. She and her parents have been leading a movement >>to get this modern classic banned from the Glynn Academy high school. >>Although they have lost the fight at the school and systemwide levels, the >>final hearing before the School Board has not yet happened. Tentatively >>the hearing is scheduled for Monday Dec. 16. >> >>Diana Cason, the Advanced Placement English teacher for the school has been >>leading the opposition to the censorship. She writes, "I am certain the >>young lady making the protest will have in attendance a large group of >>ultra-conservative adult backers. I think it critical that "we" have an at >>least equally large group of parents and former students present at the >>hearing. I think any means we have of demonstrating what I know in my >>heart to be true--that a large majority of GA students/parents/friends >>support a broad-based reading program steeped in the liberal arts--needs to >>be put in place before the Board." >> >>Please show your support for those opposing censorship by adding your name >>and place of residence to this email and send it to as many people as you >>can think of between now and December 16, 1996. If you are the 10th, 20th, >>etc person on the list please send me a copy at ktennen1@cc.swarthmore.edu >>so that I can assemble the full list. >> >>WE THE UNDERSIGNED OPPOSE THE BANNING OF _CATCHER IN THE RYE_ FROM GLYNN >>ACADEMY HIGH SCHOOL. WE BELIEVE THAT THIS ACT OF CENSORSHIP VIOLATES THE >>FIRST AMENDMENT AND IMPLIES CONTEMPT FOR A FREE AND PRODUCTIVE ACADEMIC >>ENVIRONMENT. >> >>NAME CITY/STATE >>GLYNN ACADEMY ALUM? (Y/N) >> >>1. Kelli Tennent Swarthmore, PA >>Y - c/o 1994 >>2. Amy Dalton (N) Claremont, CA >>3. Jordana Schuster (N) Williamstown, MA >>4. Hillary Bergmann (N) Northampton, MA >>5.Priya Jain (N) Northampton, MA >>6.Alexa Kolbi-Molinas (N) Northampton, MA >>7.Elisabeth Wickeri (N) Northampton, MA >>8.andrea yeriazarian (n) northampton, ma >>9.bryna griggin (n) boston, ma >>10.Michael Haskamp (N) Cambridge, MA >>11. Sara Boyle (N) Cambridge, MA >>12. Sarah R. Loebman (N) Ithaca, NY >>13. Jay Wiley (n) San Jose, CA From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 13:49:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA05801; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:49:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate.Cadence.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA05780; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:49:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.Cadence.COM (8.6.8/8.6.8) id NAA10330; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:49:48 -0800 Received: from cds9258.cadence.com(158.140.32.4) by mailgate.Cadence.COM via smap (V1.0mjr) id sma849736188.010327; Wed Dec 4 13:49:48 1996 Received: from [158.140.7.223] (mac527.cadence.com [158.140.7.223]) by cds9258.Cadence.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03192; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:49:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 13:49:46 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: noah@cds9258 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Alex Ward , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: noah@cadence.com (Noah Ruiz) Subject: Re: S.Bay lunch (full of beans) Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This was totally cool! A little crowded, but it worked out just fine! Hello to all, and nice meeting those new to me. I can't wait till next week! =) Take care everyone! Noah Ruiz =) p.s. I left my togo box on the table. I always forget my togo box when I go places! =) At 9:16 PM 12/4/96, Alex Ward wrote: >Nice to meet all you headz today. Sorry I had to eat and run, but this is >my last week at work and i feel like being a little productive (I was eying >andy's shot of tequila the whole time). Oh, and I promise not to be so >wired on coffee next time:) > >-peace- > >alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 14:21:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA08723; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:21:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from ng.netgate.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA08717; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:21:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from beast (d63.netgate.net [205.214.160.99]) by ng.netgate.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA23488 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:23:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32A5F9FB.1282@netgate.net> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 14:23:55 -0800 From: The Grigsbeast Reply-To: grigsby@netgate.net Organization: Ollie's House of Cesium Pantaloons X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: Humans & other animals References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Starchild wrote: > Most of us had no hand creating the technology we use, true. But > it was created by humans, not seagulls or chimpanzees. It is a recent, > rapid, and unprecedented development in the history of Earth. However, given its destructive impact on the rest of the Earth (we've already taken out about a third of the existing species on the planet), and the consequent impact on our _own_ future ability to survive, I don't think that we are entirely justified in calling ourselves "higher". Rapid, unprecedented, yes; but not "higher". > I appreciate that Grigsbeast may feel that he would be exhibiting > arrogance by calling humanity the most advanced lifeform on the planet. > At least that seems to be a common concern of humans uncomfortable with > the idea of the primacy of our species. Your second sentence shows that you're assuming the truth of your argument. Again, we've had more _impact_ in a shorter time than any other species we know about, but that doesn't equate to "primacy" or being "higher". Is a chainsaw "higher" than a beaver because it can cause more damage in less time? > But the evidence we have points to this being true; surely > speaking truth does not make one arrogant. There's nothing wrong with arrogance so long as you can back it up. Representing a value judgment as truth, however, is not arrogance, it's misrepresentation. > "Disrespecting" lower life forms is perhaps a sign of arrogance, but > recognizing that they are lower is not. "Lower" is a value judgement, by which you disrespect. If I said you were lower than I, what would be your reaction? It's easy to say a label isn't prejudicial when you're not the one being labelled. Funny how this ties in with the gangsta thread. > I believe in a healthy respect for all life, even to the extent of > being uncomfortable doing anything about the ants in my kitchen. Yet they > are still ants, and I don't hold their lives in the same regard as that > of a creature capable of love, fear, hopes, dreams, aspirations, > appreciation of the beauty around us and abstract thought, i.e. a human > being. What evidence do you have that these traits are unique to humans? > And as for the average human leading a "stunningly featureless" > life, well, that's what we have raves for. I agree with you here. Raves are a good start towards reclaiming our desires and emotions for ourselves. // grigsbeast From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 14:40:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA10466; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA10458; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:40:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id OAA03454; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:40:19 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199612042240.OAA03454@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Huge and silly looking... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:40:18 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Recently, Tony Rotundo offered his promotional skills - > At 9:11 PM -0000 12/4/96, John S. Lee wrote: > >And if it hurts me, I will call you to the mat and we'll do this again. > > AH...A good ole wrestling match! Right on! I could make this > happen...Seriously! > > Wonder how many raving wrestlers there are out there...=) > > Tone Well, the pro wrestling world is full of 300 lb guys acting out comic book caricatures of various pop cultural stereotypes - I'm scaring myself with the mental image of one of these monsterously huge guys dressed in "raver" uniform, entering the ring to the sound of a Chemical Brothers tune... Gotta have a floppy hat ( with a "foreign object" hidden inside ) Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 14:42:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA10606; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:42:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from delivery.hotmail.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA10553; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:41:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (http://www.hotmail.com 28070 invoked by uid 0); 4 Dec 1996 21:22:55 -0000 Date: 4 Dec 1996 21:22:55 -0000 Message-ID: <19961204212255.28069.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.86.127.195 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Dec 1996 13:22:55 PST From: "James King" To: SFRAVES@hyperreal.com Subject: ride to Mantra Content-Type: text/plain Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey everyone, I'm trying to find a ride to Mantra on Friday. If there is anyone who lives in the SJ. area that is going and has a spot in there car please let me know. I can chip in for gas too. PLUR. >=) --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 14:44:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA10824; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:44:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA10813; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:44:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy1.ba.best.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA00374; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:37:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mdpkl@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) id OAA08252; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:35:52 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Lanier Message-Id: <199612042235.OAA08252@shellx.best.com> Subject: friday's concert To: natoma@saturn5.com, reicja00@dons.ac.usfca.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com, terry@lanieraccounting.com, maryl@bcp.org Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:35:52 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hello all- you are invited to my concert on friday night. where: st ignatius church (corner of fulton and parker) when: friday night, 8 pm why: because matt lanier (me) is singing there, and i'd love to have friends there to share it! any questions: mail me at mdpkl@best.com! love to you all, and come to my show to support a struggling singer! i'll be singing with 3 other choirs, it'll be old, new, and wierd christmas music from many different centuries! come! rsvp!!! love- matt From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 14:45:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA10976; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:45:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA10894; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:45:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id RoS12759; Wed, 04 Dec 1996 17:43:17 EST To: trance@slip.net Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Response from Feel Good about all this BS on CW Message-ID: <19961204.143949.3406.4.plur@juno.com> References: <199612040419.UAA23116@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> <32A55E8C.11D7@slip.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-7,10-11,13-14,16-17,19-20,22-27,29-30,34-37, 42-43,45-46,48-52,55-57,59-61,64-68,72,91-93,95,97-99,101-102, 104-106,124-133 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 17:43:17 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk http://www.geocities.com/Area51/7590/rave.html This is from Victoria, Juno-plur friend. On Wed, 04 Dec 1996 03:20:44 -0800 Adam Mednick/philip diaz writes: " It is all about bringing people together." BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER....... i Don't think so. Idon't call Homies, Gangsta, clubbers and non ravers out numbering ravers bringing people together. " CW is a multicultural music and dance festival production company." BINGO..... You hit it right on the spot Production "COMPANY".There in it for the money. They don't care if anyone is having fun. "CW believes that people are brought together by music." How is this possible? All the non ravers at CW Raves excuse me, let me rephrase myself CW carnivals are brought together by doing "E" " and yet the parties still get biger and better." Yeah BIGGER And WORSE " Coolworld has brought more first time ravers into this sceen" NO sorry those "first time ravers" 1. aren't ravers. 2. Don't know the first thing about a rave or PLUR or what should go on at a rave. 3. Don't spread love, and ruin the vibe. 4. mac on girls/guys. 5. ASK YOU TO DANCE. (personal experience) " should get some apreciacion, and respect for their eforts" What efforts? I don't see how they are making things better. Us ravers are always trying to prove and show others that we are not bad and all we do is drugs and dance all night. Because that is not what we are about. And CW shows the world that we are bad and we do drugs, have orgys, and promott violence. These are all things I've seen at CW parties. "Okay...he's got a point here. How would a first-time partyer/raver >find >a tight undergroud party? not too likely, eh? well, it's gotta start >somewhere, and CoolWorld or Funky Tekno (or some of the other >massives)" >are as good a place as any! That's the whole point of an underground party. Us ravers have to throw and attend underground parties. So we can keep our scene real. And based on our morals. ".Raving takes some getting used to. .so why expect that first-timers could understand an Underground party?" My point being... The majority of first time people that attend CW parties get the wrong idea and continue on to other parties with this sense of not knowing anything whatsoever about PLUR. " If you don't like those types of events, don't go. It's really that simple." Exactly why I don't . Besides I'd rather go to a $10 - $15 RAVE and have fun and sread love and enhance the vibe for people who care. And meet new ravers. and dance all night long. And give and recieve candy and stickers. Then go to a CW CARNIVAL, and pay $25-$35 , and get bumpped into and pushed with no "sorry, or excuse me" in return. Friends get bunk "E" I for one do not do drugs or promott any at all. But I do have friends that do. Have to worry about if I'm smilling at the wrong person and they might want to kick my ass for it. Worry about some guy grabbing me or my ass. Trying to watch my favorite Dj "Carlos" performe and am knocked to the floor by some guys next to me who are fighting over god knows what. Crowed hallways where you have to squeeze by and there is at least a 10 min wait to get by. Because people are not considerate and don't know how to walk. Being rejected when asking for a sip of water. Circle dancing. Other people who are eing really hard and trying to clown you on dancing. Naked people walking around. Girls trying to impress guys on tucking their shirts under their bras or just wearing their bras. Friends being called gay or a fag because he has stickers and a elmo backpack. Vendding machines. Popcorn ???????? Jumping Dragons, amusment rides. If wanted to hear Angelina, Ruffneck or Foxy brown , I'd rather turn on my radio. CW is missing the whole point of what a rave is about. They just see a bigger party means more people and then their eyes are filled greed. " Evolution is the foundation of our existance. Nothing ever stays the same, and everything will always change. get a grip on reality, and flow with it. Enjoy the things while they last, and cherish the memory." Haven't you noticed things change for the better not for the worst so as we think. CW is changing for the worst. "Get real! Forget the Gravitron, the Ferris Wheel, the Ecstasy, the cigarettes and the erotic fire-breathing dancers." How can you forget about those things their staring you right in the face. I'm sorry I can't forget about things or not notice things that do not belong at a Rave. So in conclusion I don't want you to think that I'm saying that only ravers can attend a rave. I beleive that anyone can attend a rave as long as they don't ruin the vibe and they spread love. Ravers would never exclude anyone. were always open to new things and people. But all we ask is that if you do attend a rave and know nothing of this subject. Just to respect us and the vibe. See I feel that a rave is a place where I can express my emotions and feelings through dance. A rave is my world and the other ravers that surround me. When I enter a rave I leave myself at the door and enter as a new person. I feel that everyone who attends a rave is reborn into the rave and will always experience new things and people. So If you ever go to another country, city, planet, and you don't anything about it, are you going to just screw things up and disrespect the people? NO. of course not. That's all I'm asking for non ravers to do to respect us as if we were another city, state, planet. And get to know us in a way that is not affecting anyone eles. Thank for your time. PLUR and keep the underground alive. See you all at Freaky People Dec. 13 Harmony production Love always Victoria From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 14:59:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA12866; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:59:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from melvax.sonoma.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA12861; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 14:59:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from 130.157.38.158 (SA-6EN158.sonoma.edu) by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.0-7 #8366) id <01ICM70YVX829PO3X7@SONOMA.EDU>; Wed, 04 Dec 1996 14:59:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 15:10:33 +0000 From: ess kay three Subject: Re: What makes a rave To: Jondabomb@aol.com Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Reply-to: zintsmas@SONOMA.EDU Message-id: <32A59469.3781@vax.sonoma.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <961204161407_1985948937@emout13.mail.aol.com> Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I agree with jonathan here, that everyone has a different opinion as to what makes a rave. I also agree that it's incredibly easy to get high off of the people around you, and I know it's happened to me even if everyone around me (including myself) is sober! There's something about everyone coming together to appreciate the music and the vibe, and also all the beautiful people that I just can't get enough of. Some people go to raves for music, some go for the people, some go because they're curious, some go because they want to be "cool," some go in search of a new type of family. Everyone has a different reason, but the fact is that everyone's there to enjoy themselves, NOT to start shit. At least I should hope this is the case. Everyone has the right to go to a rave and enjoy it. They don't necessarily (sp?) have the right to ruin other people's nights. But how do you determine who's ruining the night for who? No one RUINS a rave unless they come up to you and start shit. "Gangstas" (or whatever they are, don't ask me i don't wanna get into the flamewar) dont ruin a rave for me by just being there. If they were to walk by me and say something rude, i could even ignore that. A word or two can't ruin my night. but if they were to start harassing me and kick my ass, i can see myself having a problem with that. BUT it's never happened, to me at least. They've respected my space and right to be at a rave, and i've respected theirs. I've felt intimidated, yes, but it's ignorable during a phat set, or by being surrounded by friends, but how am I to know that *i* don't intimidate them for some reason or another? What makes *me* so much better than them? What if they're really GREAT and NICE people, they just don't feel like smiling at the moment or all night? Instead of saying that a certian "type" of person doesn't belong at a rave, maybe we should try to DEAL with the fact that they are there, ignore them, or try to UNDERSTAND where they're coming from, and get on with life, instead of complaining, flaming, and getting all tense. They're not going to leave just because we complain. And maybe if we show some understanding towards them, they won't seem as intimidating, and they might understand us more as well, and things won't be so "bad" anymore. Remember, we're all ***individuals*** trying to live life and enjoy it. But then again, that's just me.. LAra -- (sk3) [ J U N G L I S T ] . . . wishing on a star . . . From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 15:05:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA13426; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from guilder.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA13399; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:05:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by guilder.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.8.1) id PAA02885; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:04:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:04:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.16.19961204145955.35ef3022@peseta.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: ez056875@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (16) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Matthew Wietzke Subject: CW- Promoting Safe Sex? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I have the 20,000 page flyer from coolworld and would like to know what this is supposed to mean: "...Plus you never know you just might get abducted or better yet have a sexual encounter with a colorful alien ! Don't worry they do practice safe sex." Does this mean CW has turned into a brothel? Matthew Wietzke mswietzke@ucdavis.edu, xpress@bigfoot.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 15:13:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA14176; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:13:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from typhoon.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA14169; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:13:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dlb@localhost) by typhoon.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA19596; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:13:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:13:33 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bayer X-Sender: dlb@typhoon.Berkeley.EDU To: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: Re: Un-Cool world In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, the false Oracle of Truth wrote: > Remember, if the scene implodes, it doesn't just mean the end of the big > parties. It means that the electornic music movement will once again be set > back, there will be less enthusiasm for buying music, gear, throwing > parties, etc. on all levels. That means that your favorite budding artists, > labels, stores, etc. could perish due to an industry-wide (community-wide) > backlash for "this crappy rave culture" once again. This is going to happen soon away because no factions of electronic music seem to be able to get along. People who like house complain about all the trance and techno out there. People who like trance seem to ONLY like trance. I like gabber but I wouldn't want to go to a party that played onlly gabber every weekend. I think I might do it now just because I cannot find any place that will allow it to be played. So nobody tolerates anyone who likes something different. As spaces become sarce, how long will it be before the groups start fighting over who will get to use a space? That seems silly now with all the peace and love people preach, but I wonder where that love will be when there is no place to have parties... dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 15:29:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA15841; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:29:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA15823; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.8.1) id PAA14364; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:29:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:29:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612042329.PAA14364@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Rick Riffle Subject: Massives - just wondering? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Were massives like the ones in '92 '93 or so like "Sharon" and "Tune Town" looked down upon (by the underground or others) as much as the massives of today? I wasn't raving back then, but did go to a Sharon once. It was at the Concourse...totally massive. Bouncy castles, human gyroscope thingy, amongst other things. The dj was raised up several feet above the croud. It was my first massive, and I had a wonderful time. Other people seemed like they were into it as well, but honestly, I knew nothing of vibe back then so I'm not really sure. Let me know. Rick From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 15:35:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA16325; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:35:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from pimaia2w.prodigy.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA16311; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:34:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mime3.prodigy.com (mime3.prodigy.com [192.168.253.27]) by pimaia2w.prodigy.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA11896 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:20:37 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by mime3.prodigy.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id SAA14346 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:18:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199612042318.SAA14346@mime3.prodigy.com> X-Mailer: Prodigy Internet GW(v0.9beta) - ae01dm04sc03 From: JNRF62B@prodigy.com (MR MICHAEL E ROBINSON) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:18:53, -0500 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: S.Bay lunch (full of beans) Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Great food, nice people, what more could one want (music!!!!). See ya's next week! Mike. just Mike.... ___________ >This was totally cool! A little crowded, but it worked out just fine! >Noah Ruiz =) >>Nice to meet all you headz today. >>alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 16:00:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA18577; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:00:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA18545; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:00:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from kelly.teleport.com (kelly.teleport.com [192.108.254.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA24966; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:00:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chicchan@localhost) by kelly.teleport.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) id PAA14466; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:59:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:59:37 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: frisco groovers cc: The Teknowers Subject: Re: open hearts...(SF) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk thanks for all the kind thoughts...we're all set! love, brenda On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Brenda Brewer wrote: > open homes. > > (KRR-kinda rave related because we want to go to a rave!) > > i'm in a silly mood today...anyway. previously on my journeys down there > many of you kind folk have offered to share your hearth whilst I visit > your lovely city but i deleted your msgs and can't remember who. manoj > and i are looking for comfortable accomodations in the city so we have > access to transit and so on and so forth. we come down solely to share > light and love so if that sounds good to you please email privately. > > love, > > brenda :) > > > __ __ __ __ > / \ / \ / \ / \ ****** Chicchan Lahuna ****** > __________/ __\/ __\/ _\/ __\________________________________ > _________/ /__/ /__/ /__/______________________________________ > | / \ / \ / \ / \ \____ > |/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \ o \ > \_____/--< > AHAU Collective (503) 237-AHAU http://www.ahau.com/~chicchan > __ __ __ __ / \ / \ / \ / \ ****** Chicchan Lahuna ****** __________/ __\/ __\/ _\/ __\________________________________ _________/ /__/ /__/ /__/______________________________________ | / \ / \ / \ / \ \____ |/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \ o \ \_____/--< AHAU Collective (503) 237-AHAU http://www.ahau.com/~chicchan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 16:05:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA19172; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA19165; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:05:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA04534 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:01:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA849744659; Wed, 04 Dec 96 16:02:05 pst Date: Wed, 04 Dec 96 16:02:05 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9611048497.AA849744659@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Discussing racism or bickering? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I have liked EVERYBODY (a statistically amazing feat, considering I'm usually quite an asshole) I have met from the list. I look forward to seeing and meeting you all at parties. I was not aware gangsta indicated race, and as a result made people uncomfortable. I will cease to use the word. Black Adder and John S. Lee are starting to like they are in a who gets the last word conflict. Please take it off line. Neither side's argument (it has dissolved into hard to follow sematic indenting fest) is of benefit to me, or anybody else I have spoken to concerning this topic. I do not want to hear anymore about MY perceptions (as white male, lister, raver, whatever) and hidden motives, I believe I understand them better than either one of you. JSL, perhaps you could recommend a word to use that would lack the connotations you claim are racial but still adequately indicates people who are "tough" and seem more interested in starting fights and getting fucked up than enjoying community at raves/parties. You both scream "drop it", but only if it's your last word. Peace, AndyW I don't know who is what color because my email reader doesn't support bigotry. That's one of the things I liked about it to begin with. It's hard to judge when you don't even know. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 16:09:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA19668; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:09:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate.Cadence.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA19654; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:09:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.Cadence.COM (8.6.8/8.6.8) id QAA01876; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:09:32 -0800 Received: from cds9258.cadence.com(158.140.32.4) by mailgate.Cadence.COM via smap (V1.0mjr) id sma849744571.001873; Wed Dec 4 16:09:31 1996 Received: from [158.140.7.223] (mac527.cadence.com [158.140.7.223]) by cds9258.Cadence.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA21412; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:09:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:09:30 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: noah@cds9258 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Rick Riffle , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: noah@cadence.com (Noah Ruiz) Subject: Re: Massives - just wondering? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I don't feel that the massives were the same as they were back in 90-93. I went to alot of the Sharons etc., and it was a way different vibe. People would dress in costume and there were lots of different people around that actually got together! Its just not the same as it used to be. I'm not saying that it should be the same cause times change and so do scenes and people! Take care, Noah Ruiz =) At 11:29 PM 12/4/96, Rick Riffle wrote: >Were massives like the ones in '92 '93 or so like "Sharon" and "Tune Town" >looked down upon (by the underground or others) as much as the massives of >today? I wasn't raving back then, but did go to a Sharon once. It was at >the Concourse...totally massive. Bouncy castles, human gyroscope thingy, >amongst other things. The dj was raised up several feet above the croud. >It was my first massive, and I had a wonderful time. Other people seemed >like they were into it as well, but honestly, I knew nothing of vibe back >then so I'm not really sure. Let me know. > >Rick From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 16:18:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA20676; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA20670; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:18:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id QAA12363; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:18:32 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612050018.QAA12363@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Long and silly looking... To: tony@xinet.com (Tony Rotundo) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:18:31 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Tony Rotundo" at Dec 4, 96 01:37:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > At 9:11 PM -0000 12/4/96, John S. Lee wrote: > > >And if it hurts me, I will call you to the mat and we'll do this again. > > AH...A good ole wrestling match! Right on! I could make this > happen...Seriously! > > Wonder how many raving wrestlers there are out there...=) > > Tone > > > I am down for this. Thanks for the suggestion Tony. Screw that circle dancing shit, time to get on the mat. Any takers? ;) Out, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 16:26:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA21393; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:26:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from SMTP by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA21388; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:26:15 -0800 (PST) From: jaquez@okpcm.com Message-Id: <199612050026.QAA21388@taz.hyperreal.com> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:23:25 -0500 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, awyszkow@smtplink.acer.com Subject: Discussing racism or bickering? -Reply MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /221000000/221050358/221001241/221100223/ Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> =20 I have liked EVERYBODY (a statistically amazing feat, considering I'm=20 usually quite an asshole) I have met from the list. I look forward to=20 seeing and meeting you all at parties. =20 I was not aware gangsta indicated race, and as a result made people=20 uncomfortable. I will cease to use the word. =20 Black Adder and John S. Lee are starting to like they are in a who=20 gets the last word conflict. Please take it off line. Neither side's=20 argument (it has dissolved into hard to follow sematic indenting fest)=20 is of benefit to me, or anybody else I have spoken to concerning this=20 topic. I do not want to hear anymore about MY perceptions (as white=20 male, lister, raver, whatever) and hidden motives, I believe I=20 understand them better than either one of you. =20 JSL, perhaps you could recommend a word to use that would lack the=20 connotations you claim are racial but still adequately indicates=20 people who are "tough" and seem more interested in starting fights and=20 getting fucked up than enjoying community at raves/parties. =20 You both scream "drop it", but only if it's your last word. =20 Peace, AndyW =20 I don't know who is what color because my email reader doesn't support=20 bigotry. That's one of the things I liked about it to begin with. =20 It's hard to judge when you don't even know. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< good show mate! I agree get this off this list now! we should all be in this together not trying to be so PC we get pissed off. late. ho ho=20 ho green giant. =3D~) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 16:30:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA21796; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:30:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA21770; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:30:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id QAA13844; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:30:34 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612050030.QAA13844@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Discussing racism or bickering? To: awyszkow@smtplink.acer.com (Andy Wyszkowski) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:30:33 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9611048497.AA849744659@smtplink.acer.com> from "Andy Wyszkowski" at Dec 4, 96 04:02:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > > I have liked EVERYBODY (a statistically amazing feat, considering I'm > usually quite an asshole) I have met from the list. I look forward to > seeing and meeting you all at parties. > > I was not aware gangsta indicated race, and as a result made people > uncomfortable. I will cease to use the word. Since so many have asked. Look at how the mass media uses the term. Look at how the police use the term, look at how seciurity guards use the term. It is a term which usually denotes people of color, who through dress or style of dress, type of clothes worn, or colors worn, are supposed to signify some memebrship in a group of thugs commonly known as gangs. It is often delivered arbitrarily, to any black or brown, and now yellow (if I may use that term, forgive me) youth who sport such clothing. The attititude is usually the glue that seals the impression. It is also a term used widely in the hip-0hop world, almost exclusively by those who "try" to be "real" (whatever that is). Adopting the ways of violence to show that one is not a part of the mass culture, but part of a subculture, whose attitudes towards life is one of slef-fullfillment through being hard. > > Black Adder and John S. Lee are starting to like they are in a who > gets the last word conflict. Please take it off line. Neither side's > argument (it has dissolved into hard to follow sematic indenting fest) > is of benefit to me, or anybody else I have spoken to concerning this > topic. I do not want to hear anymore about MY perceptions (as white > male, lister, raver, whatever) and hidden motives, I believe I > understand them better than either one of you. OK. > > JSL, perhaps you could recommend a word to use that would lack the > connotations you claim are racial but still adequately indicates > people who are "tough" and seem more interested in starting fights and > getting fucked up than enjoying community at raves/parties. > How about assholes, since evryone has one. How about people with bad attitudes, since everyone at one time shares those. I am sure if you put some thought into it, there are plenty of words other than gangsta that would fit the bill. > You both scream "drop it", but only if it's your last word. Uh, ok coach! > > Peace, > AndyW > > I don't know who is what color because my email reader doesn't support > bigotry. That's one of the things I liked about it to begin with. > It's hard to judge when you don't even know. > And that in itself is part of the problem., We don;t know who is on the other end. It makes being insensitive easy, as well as being offended. This virtual shit is no godsend. Just a tool, that has the potential of providing communication. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 16:32:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA21936; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA21929; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:32:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id QAA23416; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:32:19 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199612050032.QAA23416@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: Feeling Safe =>=>=> Exclusivity =>=>=> Elitism To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:32:19 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves ] I'm going to try to get my thoughts together and write a mini-essay about what I'm thinking about, but I'll try it out on you folks in an abbreviated form: 1. Ravers want to feel safe at a rave ( no fag bashing, robbery, fighting, ridicule, etc. ) - esp. important if on psychedelics. 2. Being mostly folks whom high school is a present reality or fresh memory, ravers want to avoid parties with the kind of folks that cause(d) them pain and trouble on and off campus. 3. 1 + 2 == "Nonravers" don't get invited to the "good" raves. If anyone has any opinions on the hypotheses I've made above, please email them to me! Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com PS - I like the daytime public park raves the best, because the public can watch and participate. Safety factor is higher than at night, given the light and park rangers and police and the visiblity of everyone. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 16:33:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA22158; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:33:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from typhoon.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA22142; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:33:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dlb@localhost) by typhoon.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA20200; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:33:42 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:33:40 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bayer X-Sender: dlb@typhoon.Berkeley.EDU To: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: RE: shitty post --> sober raving & E In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Fred Thornton wrote: > All classes of people want to be identified and grouped together. > Business men look like they are business men, a Catholic priest looks > like a priest, a cop wears his uniform, hippies (in order to show they > are all different) all dress the same, ravers, military men, Caltrans, > and everybody else. You dress to show what kind of person you are; > where you 'fit in'. [snip] > what it stands for. Everybody knows everybody else's colors; what good > would it do to fly colors if others did not know what they mean. This > is common sense; and we all know and use it. Ok, I dress in jeans that fit with a little bit of slack and throw on T shirts that look like they might be from the Gap or Sears, some are actually from LL Bean or from my skating days 6 years ago (damn they still fit) or from concerts that long ago or from ski clubs that gave free shirts. I have half my head shaved and now the other half is dreaded. I wear Tevas or hiking boots on my feet. I throw on woolly socks and my North Face fleecy pullover that I put a thick cotton shirt inside of for the hood when it gets cold. I lost my gray stove top wool from Pakistan hat but mysteriously, a new red one appeared in my coffin after a party, so now it is red.... What does that make me? A raver? A hippie (I do not have any dayglow)? An average joe? A crusty (shit, I took a shower yesterday, scratch that one)? A saracistic bastard (now that one I might just like)? I do not wear glitter, do not like being stuck with stickers, wear a lighter around my neck with my orange whistle on it (but I hide it under my shirt because I do not like people knowing I have it). I do not always have a big grin on my face but I probably am not scowling... What colors do I have now? I dance when the music is heavy and stompy kinda like Red 3 by Dave Clarke or Sublime by Chirstian Vogel or whatever the hell that track was by intimidator on 25 of twisted vynil. I dance when it is trancy but still has more of a kick drum than a click. I pull speakers out into the woods or around in the rain and stick a flashlight in my mouth when they aren't working right so my hands are free. I love a kickdrum you feel pushing through you at a speed where you are almost controrted to dance in way that would do well to be hold a spear in one hand, a shield in the other, and be stomping around a big bonfire - but maybe with synths in the back to drag emotional energy into the whole thing.... So does this make a raver? I don't have the baggies, my jeans fit too normally. I suppose the hair makes me a dj in SF, as does the lack of a big smile (hmmm, or was that two years ago). Basicly, it makes me a dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 16:36:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA22329; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:36:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA22323; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id QAA23955; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:36:07 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199612050036.QAA23955@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Long and silly looking... To: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:36:06 -0800 (PST) Cc: tony@xinet.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199612050018.QAA12363@netcom20.netcom.com> from "John S. Lee" at Dec 4, 96 04:18:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves ] John is up for it!!! > > > > At 9:11 PM -0000 12/4/96, John S. Lee wrote: > > >And if it hurts me, I will call you to the mat and we'll do this again. > > > > AH...A good ole wrestling match! Right on! I could make this > > happen...Seriously! > > > > Tone > I am down for this. Thanks for the suggestion Tony. Screw that circle > dancing shit, time to get on the mat. > > Any takers? ;) > I will, but only if you wear a big floppy hat and platorm shoes ... Larry "The Mauler!!!" Ching / larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 16:42:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA23065; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:42:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA23057; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:42:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id QAA07177; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:42:21 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id QAA18413; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:42:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:42:16 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Long and silly looking... To: "John S. Lee" cc: Tony Rotundo , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199612050018.QAA12363@netcom20.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > I am down for this. Thanks for the suggestion Tony. Screw that circle > dancing shit, time to get on the mat. > > Any takers? ;) ME!!! But only if we use crisco!! ;) blessings, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 16:50:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA23730; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from epic9.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA23725; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gonzo@localhost) by epic9.Stanford.EDU (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA24542; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:50:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:50:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Mark Logan To: friends&family Subject: good luck Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk to all those struggling through final exams in the coming weeks. ehhh.... phhbbt. jon --------------------------------------------------------- Jesus saves souls and redeems them for valuable cash prizes. --------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 16:58:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA24452; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:58:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from PACBELL.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA24419; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:58:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from raverdude (ppp-206-170-4-221.wnck11.pacbell.net [206.170.4.221]) by PACBELL.net (8.7.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA08364 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:58:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612050058.QAA08364@PACBELL.net> From: "Eric Vandenbroek" To: Subject: This weekend.... Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:00:03 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ok people, I am wanting to meet all of you. This weekend, I will be at X-Files on friday night and Karma on Saturday night. If you are going to either or both of these parties E-Mail me so I can talk to you there. You may already know who I am, but don't realize that I am on the list =) Anyway. Try and maintain a level of peace on here, isn't that what we are all about, the fact that our scene is set for love of one another. And this whole this on sterotypes makes me sad =( I mean people have us (ravers) sterotyped, why should we doing it back to the opressers of our society??? Please have a wonderful Wednesday night/Thursday/Friday day, and party of Friday night :-) Can't wait to meet all of you happy people. Peace, love, and Harmony, Eric Vandenbroek From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 17:06:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA25095; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:06:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA25059; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:06:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA18318; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:06:17 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612050106.RAA18318@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Long and silly looking... To: randream@cats.ucsc.edu (Randy C Cone) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:06:17 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Randy C Cone" at Dec 4, 96 04:42:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > > > On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > I am down for this. Thanks for the suggestion Tony. Screw that circle > > dancing shit, time to get on the mat. > > > > Any takers? ;) > > > ME!!! But only if we use crisco!! ;) > > > I am sorry, you're a class A freak. and I don't wrestle with no man in no damn crisco. I have a son and a hard core gangstah reputation to protect. Sheeit, I woiuld rahter circle dance your sorry butt to death, THEN grease you down. Yeah like in Deliverance. Hey randy, c'mon, squeal for me! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 17:11:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA25507; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:11:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from PACBELL.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA25497; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:11:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (pablin@ppp-206-170-28-26.wnck11.pacbell.net [206.170.28.26]) by PACBELL.net (8.7.6/8.7.1) with SMTP id RAA13422; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:10:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961205010051.006cec00@pacbell.net> X-Sender: pablin@pacbell.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 17:00:51 -0800 To: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) From: Pablo Beck Subject: Re: Feeling Safe =>=>=> Exclusivity =>=>=> Elitism Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >1. Ravers want to feel safe at a rave ( no fag bashing, robbery, > fighting, ridicule, etc. ) - esp. important if on psychedelics. I agree 100%. Since I had a bad trip while on shrooms (not *that* bad, but I was very much looking for people to make me happy and couldn't find any at the rave :( ) I've decided to be someone at raves that makes people have good trips... I'm also afraid of leaving my stuff at raves... I feel as if people will search through my stuff, get my water, etc. ALso depends on how big the rave is. >2. Being mostly folks whom high school is a present reality or > fresh memory, ravers want to avoid parties with the kind of folks > that cause(d) them pain and trouble on and off campus. N/A >3. 1 + 2 == "Nonravers" don't get invited to the "good" raves. Hummm.... I guess you are right on this one, the people that go to "good" raves I've noticed aren't like the people I've seen at "bad" raves... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 17:14:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA25743; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:14:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA25734; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:14:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scarab@localhost) by value.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA28177; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:14:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:14:25 -0800 (PST) From: KaySEE To: "plur@ juno.com" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: what ravers do In-Reply-To: <19961204.071347.3406.1.plur@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, plur@ juno.com wrote: > >> This is really stupid, because NO RAVER ever, ever hits on any > >girl/guy > >> at a rave, ever! > >> If a girl/guy hits on a RAVER, he will usually say no thankyou. > >He/she > >> doesn't like Homie girls/guys. He/She likes Ravers! > > > >Whew. Glad this got cleared up. Guess all those bustiers, > >hip-huggers, > >retro-thrift rayon shirts, and knit caps worn in 110 degree heat are > >completely utilitarian in nature. And I didn't know that all those > >people laying on each other in the chill room came to the event as a > >group who already knew each other, without exception. > > > >Gosh! I'm so naive sometimes. Perhaps some day I will know enough to > >be a Raver. > > > >// grigsbeast > > > Sorry, what I meant to say is that ravers dont hit on anyone AT A RAVE.. > And most of the people in a chill room are people to gone on e. And they > are letting the E get the best of them and they don't care because they > love each other and are together. They may be rubbing each others necks > or whatever, but as long as they are not having sex its cool because they > are enjoying their E properly. If they are having sex at a rave they dont > have any PLUR they have SEX. Thatts not PLUR. > Ravers don't hit on anyone at a rave. They become friends with a person. > I don't know what your talking about comparing people laying on each > other in a chill room to people that have got each others number and are > going to hook up later. Thats a club! You don't hit on anyone at a rave > becuase Its looked down on. I'm sorry you didn't know that, but now you > know. > I'd be very careful about defining a "raver," or defining any "type" of person whatsoever. It can be very devisive. I am many, many things, but first, and foremost, I am glad I am not only ONE thing. That's the beauty of being human. Tolerance for different perspectives is very important in life. I know, I'm trying EVERY FUCKING day. Just be careful about narrowly defining what is and isn't a category of people. Humans aren't categories, we're humans, and we come with all our faults in tow. But, we are also unique, so NO ONE fits into a category. Just comments, KaySEE From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 17:16:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA25886; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:16:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA25873; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:16:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from (rayvonie@smx-ca3-02.ix.netcom.com [205.186.78.98]) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA06162 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:15:30 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:15:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199612050115.RAA06162@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: rayvonie@ix.netcom.com (Ray Vonie) Subject: re: CW- Promoting Safe Sex? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >I have the 20,000 page flyer from coolworld and would like to know >what this is supposed to mean: >"...Plus you never know you just might get abducted or better yet have a sexual encounter with a colorful alien ! Don't worry they do practice safe sex." >Does this mean CW has turned into a brothel? Just like your post, I think its just meant to be a joke, you know, humor...HaHAHa...funny. Nuf said, please do not read more into somthing than logic dictates. thats how bad rumors are started. PLUR Ray Vonie From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 17:27:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA26920; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:27:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from marble.litc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA26915; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com (arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.2.84]) by marble.litc.lockheed.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA02426 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:26:50 -0700 (MST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBE208.70280FB0@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:27:35 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: RE: shitty post, gangstah, etc, etc What FOOLS these mortals be! Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:27:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk what FOOLS these mortals be! jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 17:38:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA27855; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:38:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA27848; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:38:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.253.162.77] (wayne.eff.org [204.253.162.77]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA24746; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:07:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19961204145955.35ef3022@peseta.ucdavis.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:05:39 -0800 To: Matthew Wietzke , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "!" Subject: Re: CW- Promoting Safe Sex? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 3:04 PM -0800 12/4/96, Matthew Wietzke wrote: >I have the 20,000 page flyer from coolworld and would like to know what >this is supposed to mean: > >"...Plus you never know you just might get abducted or better yet have a >sexual encounter with a colorful alien ! Don't worry they do practice safe >sex." > >Does this mean CW has turned into a brothel? I am sure that if Cool World had intentions of being a brothel they would seize your date at the door so that they could sell you a new one once you got inside. :-) I think that Cool World will be a really "cool" thing to do for pre-club aged kidz who have not yet found a real rave. If you aren't in that category then you probably shouldn't go. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 17:40:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA28184; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:40:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA28175; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:40:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id RAA22451; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:40:15 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id RAA27889; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:40:15 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:40:14 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Long and silly looking... To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199612050106.RAA18318@netcom20.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > I am down for this. Thanks for the suggestion Tony. Screw that circle > > > dancing shit, time to get on the mat. > > > > > > Any takers? ;) > > > > > > ME!!! But only if we use crisco!! ;) > > > > > > > > I am sorry, you're a class A freak. Gee! Thanks!! > and I don't wrestle with no man in > no damn crisco. I have a son and a hard core gangstah reputation to protect. > > Sheeit, I woiuld rahter circle dance your sorry butt to death, THEN grease > you down. Yeah like in Deliverance. > Hey Now!! Your reading more into my post than I put there!!! Now stop that! > Hey randy, c'mon, squeal for me! Sorry. You can't afford me. ;) peas, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 17:42:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA28388; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:42:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA28370; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.136.109] (mg136-109.ricochet.net [204.179.136.109]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA10410; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:41:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612050141.RAA10410@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: Re: Long and silly looking... Date: Wed, 4 Dec 96 17:47:21 -0800 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: "John S. Lee" , "SFRaves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >The only thing you know is that I >think the word gangstah is derrogatory for racially historical reasons. I am VERY curious to learn your views on this! And I wish we could have gotten to this point much sooner, since I think this is really the rub. BUT, instead of speculation, I'd like to propose a real research project. I'm going to start a net search for the word, to see if I can collect some statistics on usage, etc. peace deeje -------------------------------------------------------------------------- deeje cooley Journeyman Software -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 17:54:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA29378; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA29371; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:54:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id UDN26355; Wed, 04 Dec 1996 20:48:56 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: From Paul with PLUR Message-ID: <19961204.174520.3374.0.plur@juno.com> References: <32A52287.1714@netgate.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-6,9-12,15,33,36-44,47-49 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 20:48:56 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Okay I think many people misunderstood what I meant. What I mean by ravers dont hit on other ravers at raves is That at a rave i have never heard about a raver, who goes up to another raver and says. "Hey baby, whats your sign. Can I get your number." Thats hitting on someone. Ravers say "Hi how are you" They converse They become friends first. Then its not. Lets hook up I want to fuck you. Its can i get your number and call you some time and they dont leave and get other numbers of girls. Sex is a bad vibe at a rave. My Raver Friends never mac on anyone at a rave. They sit down and are friendly. Raves are for PLUR Clubs are for getting numbers. I am sick of people saying shit to me about how I am am go and shit in a sarcastic manor. I like all people on this post am saying how i feel and observer and I know. If you don't like what i say dont flame me or whatever. There's no PLUR in that and any person who doesn't have PLUR 24/7 can not be a raver. It takes a long time to be a raver and understand it totaly. I have only been raving for 6 months. I don't know much at all. My friend has been raving for 2 years. She is a raver. She knows. She points out stuff at a rave. I am lucky to have been brought in to the scen by a raver. Not by someone who went to a couple raves and though it was cool. Or got a COOL WORLD flyer at a mall. Raving is a whole new experince for me. I feel I completley fit in. All this talk about PLUR and not many people show that on this site. If you don't even know what PLUR is and for what its there for then you should shut up and not say anything and learn for experineced people. Or wait unitl you do know. I didn't write crap to this post for a month. I didn't talk like I was a hardcore raver ever. I am not even close to being a total raver. I have so much shit I don't know. But i do not what PLUR is I do know what a rave is. I do know the diffence from a Raver and a Party Person. Don't clown me for speaking from what I know. If you seriously take raving to heart. Then you will keep PLUR wiht you everywhere and give it to everyone. Thats all I need to say. I probably will get soem stupid email from saying about how much I care about raves and by trying to make our scene better. PLUR, Paul Peace Love Unity Respect A Raver: Someone who know what PLUR is and takes it serously. Thats all that matters to any raver. And even some people who aren't, yet respect our territory when they come to a rave and show examples of PLUR to all. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/7590/rave.html From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 18:02:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA29893; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:02:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from boris.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA29876; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:01:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by boris.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.7.3) id SAA13332; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:01:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:01:44 -0800 (PST) From: Uncle Noah X-Sender: ez031733@boris.ucdavis.edu To: "plur@ juno.com" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: what ravers do In-Reply-To: <19961204.071347.3406.1.plur@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, plur@ juno.com wrote: > >> This is really stupid, because NO RAVER ever, ever hits on any > >girl/guy > >> at a rave, ever! <> > Sorry, what I meant to say is that ravers dont hit on anyone AT A RAVE.. > And most of the people in a chill room are people to gone on e. And they > are letting the E get the best of them and they don't care because they > love each other and are together. They may be rubbing each others necks > or whatever, but as long as they are not having sex its cool because they > are enjoying their E properly. If they are having sex at a rave they dont > have any PLUR they have SEX. Thatts not PLUR. hold up a minute. PLUR = Peace Love Unity Respect. I would think that a good sexual encounter should include all four of these things. Sex does not negate PLUR. I agree that having sex in a public forum may be inappropriate at times, and surely forcing sexual energy on someone who does not want it is wrong, but I think you should really take a look at your views on sexual relations if you feel that sex negates PLUR and PLUR negates sex. and as far as the 'proper' use of MDMA... I knw that I for one have a real problem with interacting physically with others. I have taken dancing lessons, fencing lessons and other physical stuff to try to understand where the problem is at and get past it. Truth is none of it has really worked. However, when I use MDMA, I find that physical interaction is quite enjoyable and spending some time cuddling with a friend (old or new) is an important part of a growth-oriented trip. I know that these views might put me at odds with many folks, but all I can say is, hey, I don't plan to make you get a hug if you don't want one! :) But you should get at least one !:) Hug sluts, back me up! nothing personal, just views on a few important topics. :) PLUR dBP dBP dBBBBb dBBBP dBP dBBBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBP dBP_dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBBBBP dBP dBP dBBBBP dBBBBP dBBBBP dBBBBb dBBBBP dBBBBBb dBP dBP dBP dBP.BP BB dBP dBP dBP.BP dBP BB dBBBBBP dBP dBP dBP.BP dBP BB dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBBBP dBBBBBBB dBP dBP ********napodaca@ucdavis.edu************************************************** "Uncle" Noah Apodaca - UCDavis Graduate, DJ, Electronic Musician From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 18:04:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA00168; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:04:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA00152; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:04:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.253.162.77] (wayne.eff.org [204.253.162.77]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA25697 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:04:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199612050115.RAA06162@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:03:07 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Crusty was just a start" Subject: re: CW- Promoting Safe Sex? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 5:15 PM -0800 12/4/96, Ray Vonie wrote: >>I have the 20,000 page flyer from coolworld and would like to know >what >this is supposed to mean: > >>"...Plus you never know you just might get abducted or better yet have a >sexual encounter with a colorful alien ! Don't worry they do practice >safe sex." > >>Does this mean CW has turned into a brothel? > >Just like your post, I think its just meant to be a joke, you know, >humor...HaHAHa...funny. > >Nuf said, please do not read more into somthing than logic dictates. >thats how bad rumors are started. > >PLUR Ray Vonie For someone who repeatedly denies having current involvement with Cool World, you sure are quick to defend, debunk and otherwise downplay real and potential negative aspects of COOL WORLD's large, sellout, $$$ focused "rave parties" which are honestly all sellout exploitive cash-fests. If COOL WORLD was really here for the rave scene, COOL WORLD would be throwing smaller, not larger parties. They would be free or close to free, and, in all truth, COOL WORLD wouldn't be making THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars upon which the COOL WORLD promotion team and their ilk live. They may say "Well, it's a lot of work to throw these parties and we deserve to make some money to keep doing it." And I would quickly rebut that COOL WORLD really cares about the scene, COOL WORLD would not be throwing mega budget parties with LOTS to gain, rather COOL WORLD would throw smaller parties that are nowhere near the hassle or expense of larger ones. COOL WORLD's reward would not be a suitcase full of $20's from the dissappointed masses, it would be the personal satisfaction of throwing a good party with and for your closer friends that would leave the guests and promoters both *spiritually* fufilled. But we all know the real truth about COOL WORLD -- AND THEIR DEFENDERS. Frankly, there's a lot of shit sent in COOL WORLD's direction because we're collectively more pissed that COOL WORLD would insult our intelligence by attempting to make us believe that COOL WORLD is in it for the vibe and community when we ALL know COOL WORLD is in it for the money. So just say it. Call it like it is. Tell us COOL WORLD is really in it for the money. It's OK that COOL WORLD makes THOUSANDS of dollars off the rave community as long as COOL WORLD is straight up about it. I personally like entreprenuers but I despise liars and cheats. I have a feeling that there are more than less that would agree with me on this point. This may be COOL WORLD's "market" but this is our PASSION. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 18:22:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA01838; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA01744; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:21:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id SAA29131; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:21:33 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199612050221.SAA29131@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Long and silly looking... To: randream@cats.ucsc.edu (Randy C Cone) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:21:33 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Randy C Cone" at Dec 4, 96 05:40:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > > > On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > > > I am down for this. Thanks for the suggestion Tony. Screw that circle > > > > dancing shit, time to get on the mat. > > > > > > > > Any takers? ;) > > > > > > > > > ME!!! But only if we use crisco!! ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry, you're a class A freak. > > > Gee! Thanks!! > > > > and I don't wrestle with no man in > > no damn crisco. I have a son and a hard core gangstah reputation to protect. > > > > Sheeit, I woiuld rahter circle dance your sorry butt to death, THEN grease > > you down. Yeah like in Deliverance. > > > > Hey Now!! Your reading more into my post than I put there!!! Now stop that! > > > > > Hey randy, c'mon, squeal for me! > > Sorry. You can't afford me. ;) > That is NOt what I was told! ;) Peace, John > > peas, > > > > Ran @ Dionysus Dreams > (Namaste) > / > -=*=-/ > ~ > > > (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) > ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( > ( ) > ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( > ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) > ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( > ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) > ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( > ( ) > ) ( > ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) > )__________________________________________________________________________( > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 18:29:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA02540; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:29:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from linex5.linex.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA02465; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:29:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from linex4.linex.com (206.54.38.14) by linex5.linex.com with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:29:32 -0600 Received: from [199.4.98.69] by linex4.linex.com (NX5.67c/NX3.0S) id AA14475; Wed, 4 Dec 96 18:28:41 -0800 Message-Id: <32A63387.5EE8@linex.com> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 18:29:27 -0800 From: sean murray X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: SOUND FOR HIRE!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, now that winter is upon us, and the number of spaces in sf droping fast! I am forced to use shameful self promotion.(sorry) If anyone has an event coming up and needs a sound system,lighting help,or just some advice mail me back. Rental: Sound system (4kw) a six cabinet portable yet powerful package. 4- cerwin 18-inch folded horn design subs 2-electro voice T53s, a biampable high level three way system with one 15-inch woofer and a DL10x midrange housed in its own sub enclosure. For the highs, a large-format compression driver with a 60x40 horn is used. Crest and Carver amplifiers are used for the main system. 2-Yamaha s112 monitors w/eq Crown amplifiers are used for the monitor system 1-DJ coffin loaded with 2 technics 1200mkIIs and a rane mp24 mixer. This system can be broken up into three different sizes for almost any application. (full system will work for an event of 200-300 people) Please call/mail with any questions Rental: Lighting 1-mirror ball with motor and pin spots 2-fog machines, small and large black lights I have over 5 years in lighting experience and can help you decorate a room or design a full system for a nightclub/party If needed I can run or program your intelligent lighting fixtures.(High end) Rental: Digital recording I can come to your event and record using a Sony 670 rackmount dat (digital audio tape) recorder/player. I can also take care of your post production transfers. Some partys and past customers that have used my stuff: moby, the prodigy, masters at work, freaky chakra, funky tecno tribe, wicked, tribal funk, by the people, feel good entertainment, pacific soundsystem, progress, dolphin & friends, unity, sound factory, club townsend,ambient jungle, and 420 to mention a few. thanx for your time sean murray/ renegade@linex.com 415-721-9317 P.S. also looking for Dj bookings! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 18:35:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA03309; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:35:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from boris.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA03305; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:35:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by boris.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.7.3) id SAA17351; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:35:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:35:46 -0800 (PST) From: Uncle Noah X-Sender: ez031733@boris.ucdavis.edu To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: mantra... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk is this going to be the party of choice? my travel plans leave Saturday evening open for raving, and I really want to be at a good event :) also, could someone give the po' man a break and forward me appropriate info line #'s? Thanks! See you kids Saturday! dBP dBP dBBBBb dBBBP dBP dBBBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBP dBP_dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBBBBP dBP dBP dBBBBP dBBBBP dBBBBP dBBBBb dBBBBP dBBBBBb dBP dBP dBP dBP.BP BB dBP dBP dBP.BP dBP BB dBBBBBP dBP dBP dBP.BP dBP BB dBP dBP dBP dBP dBBBBP dBBBBBBB dBP dBP ********napodaca@ucdavis.edu************************************************** "Uncle" Noah Apodaca - UCDavis Graduate, DJ, Electronic Musician From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 18:36:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA03392; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from typhoon.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA03382; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:36:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dlb@localhost) by typhoon.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA20812; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:36:01 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:35:58 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bayer X-Sender: dlb@typhoon.Berkeley.EDU To: blkadder@value.net, "John S. Lee" cc: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: redefining of words and the like In-Reply-To: <199612042043.MAA14457@netcom20.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Look here ya cunts, both of you sticking to your own systems and not looking at what the other is saying, or if yer are, ye not doing anything about it. I called both of you cunts knowing full well that here in the California, most people are going to take great offense at that right? Hell, when I lived in Oakland, I would have gotten my ass kicked nicely if I walked out and looked at my neighbors and asked how all ya cunts were off. But I go to Glasgow and do that and I will get a pint shoved in my hand and patted on the back as a forgiener who can cross some terrioritial barrier and not bring all my vocabulary prejudices with me, or something like that (well, if it was the right cunts ken?). I come back to the States with a new word and explain and no one will hear it, it does not have the same meaning, those rude Scots are just shovonist pigs simply saying they have changed the meaning to imply.... Ok, that was a lame attempt to kind of shed a little bit of ease into this conversation as it seems to have become a "no it's this way, no it isn't, it's this way, no......" discussion. First, we have that in some circles, a gangster is black - the original gangstahs were black and all these other types are idiots who are trying to copy the original hoodz and walk the walk without the background that brought about that walk. If you're out in Oakland were I lived with anyone and you saw some hot assed asian or white frat boy go by all laid back and looking like a hard cunt, someone who pipe up about him trying to be all gangstah like, I suppose that was because only a black could actually be a gangsta. And I assume that is because these little shits grew up down in LA with a million bux in the bank and thought it would be all cool to be doing the gangstah walk but they kind of missed out on growing up in the ghetto with bangs in the night and having to learn to do the walk or else you were meat to be eaten. How can one be a g without that? That's my take from the time I lived in North Oakland on 63rd and Market. It's my take from when I talked to the people who had been there much longer than I was and who weren't going anywhere else soon cuz they couldn't get out. And than, maybe they didn't want to get out, cuz they knew that shooting the shit up in the hills was shit too, just different shit. Well, the original gangstas it was pointed out are from New York running alcohol during prohibition. So the original gangstah were white, they ran around with guns killing each other and protececting their own. That sounds kind of familar. And for some reason, its the in thing to do now. Be all hard and run around like a hard cunt. When it comes down to it, what is a gangsta? And what do you call those people who think their all hard cunts but when the shit hits the fan, they aren't. So how do people communicate? We have words and people use different rules for the words based on their understanding of the rules when they learned the words. Whose rules for the word gangsta apply here? People don't want attitude filled assholes who think they are hard cunts coming to parties and standing on the walls scoping women and trying to start fights - is that what people mean? What I get from what I read of John's posts he takes offense at sfravers saying they do not want people of color who live in the ghetto and have a certain way of life coming out to parties period and that we are simply redefining his term so that everyone can feel good about themselves for not being racist. And since sfravers are all doleys up at univeristy (I dropped out of Berkeley a while back but still have this account which I use for sfraves so I am no longer a "student", don't let the address fool you) have no experience in the streets and no experience being locked into a community for life which is pretty much true of everyone I met at Berkeley. Am I getting this right? On my own note, if people are turned off by people from where life is a little bit more worrisome not running around with glitter and shit eating grins on their faces, I wonder why? Is this the mark of attitude? Or is there something else like the way a group of circle dancers kind of close themselves off from everyone that is disturbing everyone? And by closing off, I do not mean forming a circle cuz those always form as people turn around and look about, but there is something different like the circle becomes its own entity. Or is it something else.... dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 18:41:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA03714; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mom.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA03702; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:41:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from stuff (tuna-49.ppp.hooked.net [206.80.8.177]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA15147; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:41:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612050241.SAA15147@mom.hooked.net> From: "Mr nStuff" To: "_LiQuiD_" Cc: Subject: NRRe: <<--Re: a bomb web site-->> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:43:14 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I am usually in the Quaker State for an hour or so. Each night before I goto bed, i pop on my 808 state head set, slip a jungle CD into the 8x, and I take out around 20 to 40 people! Using my axe! Or else I will force the poor, helpless little nerds into suffercating under water by using my rocket launcher to keep them from coming to the surace! Hey.. You don't wanna drown? Fine, I am sure that internal combustion would be alot less painfull anyways. You can find me on 207.48.50.5 most of the time. But if I am smoking a cigarette, and you just happen to stroll along. You just might see some ravEr come swingin at you on his grafling hook, swinging like freakin Tarzan in the jungle! But you can be assured that you will die before I have the chance to swing into your face. =] The rules on 207.48.50.5 are very lenient. Random weapons pop up, You can use your grafling hook, special weapons. The only thing that sucks though is, my server is slow. Hooked.net lags nStuff. So does PacBell.com. Makes my TR5/P-133/96RAM/2MEG-64bit Video card run like a 386sx IBM Blue Lighting with 512k RAM. Sometimes. =]:.. I need an ISDN modem or Terminal card. We gotta get Digital! Jeff From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 18:47:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA04349; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:47:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA04338; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:47:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id VmQ26355; Wed, 04 Dec 1996 21:46:33 EST To: newmana@colorado.edu Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Thankyou Message-ID: <19961204.184237.3374.3.plur@juno.com> References: <32A52287.1714@netgate.net> <32A62E84.1A75@colorado.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-2,6-11 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 21:46:33 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Thank you very much. I am glad someone understand what my goal is. I will post your link on my homepage soon. Thanks for being open minded. My friend Victoria wrote mail about COOL WORLD. Ray Vonnie himself answered back. Please Read it and tell me how he is lying through his teeth. Also. If Feel Good is not COOL WORLD. Then why is he sticking up for them. I don't see all the other people from Harmony, Ghosttribe, Spundae, Charity, ,etc. saying anything. Thanks PLUR, Paul http://www.geocities.com/Area51/7590/rave.html From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 18:48:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id SAA04403; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:48:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA04380; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:48:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id VmP26355; Wed, 04 Dec 1996 21:46:33 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: More Cool World From Paul Message-ID: <19961204.184237.3374.2.plur@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7,10-13,15-16,20,23,28-32,40-43 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 21:46:33 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Okay you guys. Ravers who have been to an UN-COOL WORLD party know what its like and don't like it. I have never been to a Feel Good. I have never been to a COOL WORLD I have been to a party thrown by the BUZZ Line That was Mega Buzz, or the better name. Mega Bad Vibes. Oh wait. Since The BUZZ Line is by Feel Good then I have been to a Feel Good. Oh I also forgot that Feel Good IS IS IS IS IS IS IS IS IS IS not mater how much they deny and lie and cheat and whatever, they are and forever will be COOL WORLD. And that means I have been to a COOL WORLD Did anybody know that COOL WORLD is run by the Persian Maphia in LA? Hmmm maybe thats why they don't care about ravers and goov vibes. I am sure Ray Vonie, if thats his real name. Sounds pretty peculiar to me. rayvonie say it 10 times fast. Hmm are you saying RAVE ON E? I think you are. never noticed that. Anyway I am sure Mr On E will email me back with blah blah blah about how much they love everyone and are not in it for the money. its just EVERYONES word agains ONE, oh now I am sorry THREE Production parties. Who are you going to beieve? Some one with a fat huge wallet or someone who pays to rave and spread love and peace and unity and respect and stickers. I feel sorry about COOL WORLD People. They don't get it. Its too bad. You know, actually i take alot back now that i think about it. I guess I would be blind to anything that happend at my party with millions of dollars in my hand. I wouldn't care what girl got tied to a stick and raped. Who care I have money right. PLUR Paul Everyone better think who really has PLUR before emailing me back. I am trying to warn everyone. If you have never been to one of these productions don't counter email me. If you have and you think otherwise. You better check that you underwear says GOOD VIBE on it and not BAD VIBE. I know what mine says. GOOD VIBE. I don;t even need to check. Hope you all take this serously because its no joke. Its not funny to ahve your bag stolen at a rave. It hapened to my friend Kate and no one did shit about it except for the ravers. And they weren't on E. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/7590/rave.html From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 19:03:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA05669; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:03:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA05665; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:03:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from (rayvonie@smx-ca3-02.ix.netcom.com [205.186.78.98]) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA18703 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:02:31 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:02:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199612050302.TAA18703@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> From: rayvonie@ix.netcom.com (Ray Vonie) Subject: re: CW- Promoting Safe Sex? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: >For someone who repeatedly denies having current involvement with Cool >World, you sure are quick to defend, debunk and otherwise downplay real and >potential negative aspects of COOL WORLD's large, sellout, $$$ focused >"rave parties" which are honestly all sellout exploitive cash-fests. First of all I never said I have no involvement with CW, in fact I said that I have a lot of pride in CW and their eforts to extend house music to the masses. I did however say that CW is not the same as FGE, our directions and visions are going in diferent directions, and thats all you need to know. >If COOL WORLD was really here for the rave scene, COOL WORLD would be >throwing smaller, not larger parties. They would be free or close to free, >and, in all truth, COOL WORLD wouldn't be making THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of >dollars upon which the COOL WORLD promotion team and their ilk live. These are just your own opinions and do not justify any coment, being that they are totaly wacked. >They may say "Well, it's a lot of work to throw these parties and we >deserve to make some money to keep doing it." > >And I would quickly rebut that COOL WORLD really cares about the scene, >COOL WORLD would not be throwing mega budget parties with LOTS to gain, >rather COOL WORLD would throw smaller parties that are nowhere near the >hassle or expense of larger ones. COOL WORLD's reward would not be a >suitcase full of $20's from the dissappointed masses, it would be the >personal satisfaction of throwing a good party with and for your closer >friends that would leave the guests and promoters both *spiritually* >fufilled. You know nothing about CW, or the reason that they do the things they do. You have your own narow minded interpitation of what a party is suposed to be, and thats perfectly fine, there are plenty of those for you to go to. As far as haviong a lot to gain, don't forget about the other side, there is also a lot to loose. > >But we all know the real truth about COOL WORLD -- AND THEIR DEFENDERS. > >Frankly, there's a lot of shit sent in COOL WORLD's direction because we're >collectively more pissed that COOL WORLD would insult our intelligence by >attempting to make us believe that COOL WORLD is in it for the vibe and >community when we ALL know COOL WORLD is in it for the money. Once agin you are mistaken, and have substituted your own opinion for reality. And no one is trying to insult your intelegence, you are doing a fine job yourself. >So just say it. Call it like it is. Tell us COOL WORLD is really in it for >the money. It's OK that COOL WORLD makes THOUSANDS of dollars off the rave >community as long as COOL WORLD is straight up about it. > >I personally like entreprenuers but I despise liars and cheats. > >I have a feeling that there are more than less that would agree with me on >this point. > >This may be COOL WORLD's "market" but this is our PASSION. CW is in no way trying to market its events to the underground. everyone is invited, as always, but most core ravers just don't bother going to CW events because of all the bad vibe, Rumors, and hostile atitudes that have been created by the so called rave sceen about CW events. CW would love to see core ravers outnumber first timers at their events. This way you all could put your PLUR were your mouth is and guide the first timers in the right direction. But unfortunently the reverse discrimination that has pleaged the rave sceen for the past too years will probably not alow this to take place. Its funny that the exact reason why we all went underground, to escape discrimination, and unjustified persecution, has resurfaced within our ouw sceen. We all have a passion, and a vission. CW tries to bring people together throught the beaty of house music and dance. ALL peoples, not just ravers. I have been producing parties for 6 years, and if I was in it for the $$$, I would have quit a long time ago. You remember that time you were dancing to that certain beet at that one party and it felf so dam good, and you thought to yourself, 'wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone in the world could feel this way??' well its production crews like CW, FGE, and many others that are reaching out to the masses and doing something about it. Its just a shame that there will always be people like yourself that would rather knock someone down than lend them a hand, or tear apart somone trying to to a good, thing, and yet do nothing yourself. Thats all I have to say, and I hope I have said e-nuf Bad spelling is my trademark. PLUR Ray Vonie From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 19:24:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA07263; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:24:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA07235; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:24:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id TAA11631; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:24:19 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id TAA11342; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:24:18 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:24:18 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Long and silly looking... To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199612050221.SAA29131@netcom20.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > Hey randy, c'mon, squeal for me! > > > > Sorry. You can't afford me. ;) > > > > That is NOt what I was told! ;) Hey! Who squealed!? ;) Wayne?!?! Black Adder?!?!? C'mon guys, this ISN'T funny!!!! ;) smiles, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 19:28:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA07605; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA07599; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:28:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from (rayvonie@smx-ca3-02.ix.netcom.com [205.186.78.98]) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA23303 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:28:00 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:28:00 -0800 Message-Id: <199612050328.TAA23303@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: rayvonie@ix.netcom.com (Ray Vonie) Subject: Re: More Cool World From Paul To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Paul You wrote: (Snips) >Okay you guys. Ravers who have been to an UN-COOL WORLD party know what >its like and don't like it. >I have never been to a Feel Good. >I have never been to a COOL WORLD >I have been to a party thrown by the BUZZ Line >That was Mega Buzz, or the better name. Mega Bad Vibes. >Oh wait. Since The BUZZ Line is by Feel Good then I have been to a Feel >Good. >Oh I also forgot that Feel Good IS IS IS IS IS IS IS IS IS IS not mater >how much they deny and lie and cheat and whatever, they are and forever >will be COOL WORLD. >And that means I have been to a COOL WORLD Your logic is so wacked that I bet you could convince yourself of anything. Smoke another bowl and try to justify how it is that someone like yourself, who has been raving for a whole six months, can blatently call someone like me, who has been raving and producing for SEVEN years & who you have never met a .... liar??!!?? . >Did anybody know that COOL WORLD is run by the Persian Maphia in LA? >Hmmm maybe thats why they don't care about ravers and goov vibes. The funny part of this statement is that you think that people of Persian descent don't care about a good vibe.....prety un-PLUR to me. >I am sure Ray Vonie, if thats his real name. Sounds pretty peculiar to >me. >rayvonie say it 10 times fast. Hmm are you saying RAVE ON E? >I think you are. never noticed that. Anyway I am sure Mr On E will email >me back with blah blah blah about how much they love everyone and are not >in it for the money. its just EVERYONES word agains ONE, oh now I am >sorry THREE Production parties. Of course thats not my real name....Like duhh. It used to be my dj name, but I gave up spining because I was making to much money, and decided to throw parties instead. >Who are you going to beieve? Some one with a fat huge wallet or someone >who pays to rave and spread love and peace and unity and respect and >stickers. I have seen your stickers thay have as much respect as the rest of the vandalism and grafiti that get left on the wals of venues that can no longer be used because of their presence. >I feel sorry about COOL WORLD People. They don't get it. Its too bad. >You know, actually i take alot back now that i think about it. I guess I >would be blind to anything that happend at my party with millions of >dollars in my hand. I wouldn't care what girl got tied to a stick and >raped. Who care I have money right. I feel sorry for you, mabee you should get of the drugs and get a real dose of life. Your Idea of PLUR is wonderful, But you are taking to the wrong people. Try to practice what you preach and do it in a positive direction, Or else no one will take you seriously. PLUR, Vlad, FGE From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 19:30:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA07764; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:30:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA07724; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:30:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from 205.186.82.195 (sdx-ca20-03.ix.netcom.com [205.186.82.195]) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA17747; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:29:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32A59BB5.19D8@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 08:41:53 -0700 From: CT Reply-To: ctd-zine@ix.netcom.com Organization: CT D-Zine X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: For sanity's sake.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ...lets call a temporary cease-fire, I'm getting a migraine!!!! NO Party Bashing NO Ganster Bashing NO Mindless, Disrespectful Replies to posts Please, at least for a few days! Let's talk about what we're all gonna do this New Years Eve or somethin' much love and energy, Terry ______ ________ / ___/ /__ __/ / /__ / / /_____/ /__/ D-Zine "New Super Mega Zord Website Under Construction!" http://www.cyborganic.com/people/ctdzine --------------------------------------------- 3 list abyss ------>> ctd-zine@ix.netcom.com 100% secured ------>> ctdzine@cyborganic.net --------------------------------------------- "Freaky People happens December 13th!!!" P.S. We miss you Sherry!!! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 19:32:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA07983; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:32:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA07974; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:32:53 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA09253; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:32:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:32:38 -0800 (PST) To: Ray Vonie cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: re: CW- Promoting Safe Sex? In-Reply-To: <199612050302.TAA18703@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Ray Vonie wrote: > >Frankly, there's a lot of shit sent in COOL WORLD's direction because we're > >collectively more pissed that COOL WORLD would insult our intelligence by > >attempting to make us believe that COOL WORLD is in it for the vibe and > >community when we ALL know COOL WORLD is in it for the money. > > Once agin you are mistaken, and have substituted your own opinion for > reality. And no one is trying to insult your intelegence, you are doing a > fine job yourself. A while ago, in the midst of discussions about massives, I posed the question "What is so bad about Cool World" to the list, never having been to a Cool World. I received a flood of responses. Not one of them positive. All I have ever heard about Cool World, from people that have attended, is that it is all together a bad experience. So I would not be so quick to state that it is only Wayne's opinion in this matter. Cool World has a lousy reputation, and it is difficult for me to believe that all of the people that have spoken of their experiences are somehow out of touch with reality. > >So just say it. Call it like it is. Tell us COOL WORLD is really in it for > >the money. It's OK that COOL WORLD makes THOUSANDS of dollars off the rave > >community as long as COOL WORLD is straight up about it. > > > >I personally like entreprenuers but I despise liars and cheats. > > > >I have a feeling that there are more than less that would agree with me on > >this point. > > > >This may be COOL WORLD's "market" but this is our PASSION. > > CW is in no way trying to market its events to the underground. everyone is > invited, as always, but most core ravers just don't bother going to CW events > because of all the bad vibe, Rumors, and hostile atitudes that have been > created by the so called rave sceen about CW events. CW would love to see > core ravers outnumber first timers at their events. This way you all could > put your PLUR were your mouth is and guide the first timers in the right > direction. But unfortunently the reverse discrimination that has pleaged the > rave sceen for the past too years will probably not alow this to take place. I think Wayne was asking you to admit that which is fairly obvious, that CW is out to make money first. As far as "rumors" and hostile attitudes, if CW truly threw great parties, there would be no such attitudes. > Its funny that the exact reason why we all went underground, to escape > discrimination, and unjustified persecution, has resurfaced within our ouw > sceen. > We all have a passion, and a vission. CW tries to bring people together > throught the beaty of house music and dance. ALL peoples, not just ravers. > I have been producing parties for 6 years, and if I was in it for the $$$, I > would have quit a long time ago. No, you do not. CW brings together people that can afford the high price of admission. This is not *ALL* people. Not even close. > You remember that time you were dancing to that certain beet at that one > party and it felf so dam good, and you thought to yourself, 'wouldn't it be > wonderful if everyone in the world could feel this way??' well its > production crews like CW, FGE, and many others that are reaching out to the > masses and doing something about it. Its just a shame that there will > always be people like yourself that would rather knock someone down than lend > them a hand, or tear apart somone trying to to a good, thing, and yet do > nothing yourself. What is our cut of the admission price? Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 19:33:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA08047; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:33:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA08020; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:33:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA01416; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:32:34 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:32:34 -0500 Message-ID: <961204223233_707323085@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: plur@juno.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: From Paul with PLUR Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-12-04 20:59:50 EST, you write: << If you don't even know what PLUR is and for what its there for then you should shut up and not say anything and learn for experineced people. Or wait unitl you do know. I didn't write crap to >> Ok, um at the risk of being repetitive, that isn't to Plur-minded.... Paul if you are going to write something, you better expect responses, be it good or bad, and you should except them too. TRY and understand someones else's point of view before you sit down and type something so harsh... Peace...............................of mind Jonathan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 19:39:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA08360; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout13.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA08354; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:39:01 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout13.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA16983; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:38:27 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:38:27 -0500 Message-ID: <961204223826_1119112544@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: plur@juno.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: From Paul with PLUR Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-12-04 20:59:50 EST, you write: << A Raver: Someone who know what PLUR is and takes it serously. Thats all that matters to any raver. And even some people who aren't, yet respect our territory when they come to a rave and show examples of PLUR to all. >> Sorry, i wrote the first reply before I scrolled to the bottom and read this. THIS MAKES ME MAD, but im sure im not the only one. Ive been classified by many people because of who I am, or what I do, but to be classified as a raver??? Sorry but i never would have suspected that I would be labeled here on Sfraves. Ironic. Oh and by the way, for all the years i have been raving, i have been on both sides, i have gone as someone who attends a "rave" and I have even thrown a "rave", more often then not people don't know what the fuck plur is, and after reading half the posts I still don't think they know. And you know what, im not sure I even know. Jonathan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 19:39:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA08408; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from wired.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA08401; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:39:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.62.132.174] (wbi2.hotwired.com [204.62.132.174]) by wired.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01824; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:39:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:39:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: rawnsley@hotwired.com (Andrew Rawnsley) Subject: Mumbo Jumbo (BSP) Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk If you're looking for a musical diversion this evening, there's a new night in San Jose called "Mumbo Jumbo" on Wednesdays. The venue is "The Agenda" @ 399 S 1st Street at the corner of San Salvador and 1st. Kicks off at 10. DJs tonite are Harry Who and yours unruly... ar ***************************************************** WAXING LYRICAL 'BOUT 1971...THE HANGOVER OF THE '60s. ***************************************************** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 19:41:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA08732; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:41:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA08722; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:41:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id TAA14768; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:41:42 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id TAA13355; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:41:41 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:41:41 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: what ravers do To: *B* cc: sfraves In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, *B* wrote: [snip] > I really hope I don't break up with Marc any time soon, because I am sure I > will be looked down on considering that if > - I am single > - I meet somebody at the rave > - I think things could work out > - I am brave > => I will hit on that person :) [snip] Be still my beating heart. =] Actually, the first ambient room I ever performed in (Mr. Rogers Neighborhood in 1992 or 93, Santa Cruz Civic) I had a couple grouping each other right next to me while I was playing. While it was a bit distracting (what WERE those hands doing in there? ;) I was complimented that I was helping to create an enviroment where folks felt comfortable enough to be intimate with each other (they were relativly discreet). By the way; I think it is wonderful you have Marc in your life and I wish the two of you much happiness together. hugz, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 19:49:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA09333; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:49:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA09328; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:49:53 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA19830; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:49:21 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:49:21 -0500 Message-ID: <961204224918_1684864389@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: blkadder@value.net cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: CW- Promoting Safe Sex? Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-12-04 22:36:41 EST, you write: << As far as "rumors" and hostile attitudes, if CW truly threw great parties, there would be no such attitudes. >> Anyone remember all the posts about Martin and the gathering??? You know, maybe for a "true raver"(whatever that is) cool world would suck because it glamorizes what they try and keep so private so underground, but if people would just understand that, and let it be, i think everyone would be happy. NOBODY is benifitting from all this negativity really folks, can't we just respect each other? J From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 19:58:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id TAA10036; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:58:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA10004; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:58:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id TAA17575; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:58:07 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id TAA15898; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:58:06 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:58:05 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: For sanity's sake.... To: CT cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <32A59BB5.19D8@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, CT wrote: > ...lets call a temporary cease-fire, I'm getting a migraine!!!! NO!!!! MORE FLAMES!!!! What can I say? I'm cheap and I havn't paid the heating bill in a while. ;) I like being able to discuss controversial topics with people. It gives me a chance on how to learn to stay cool when someone else is gettin' riled (not easy for me at times :( ). It's almost like being able to talk about those things your family never talked about as certain members couldn't handle it. Well, if you don't use it you lose it. Communication skills are no different. While I would like to see more respectful posts (from myself included!!) I will not tell someone to shut up (on this list) because I'm feeling uncomfortable with what they are saying. I may ask them to consider my perspective. When I lose it say I may say something I will later regret (then again maybe not :). But most of all I try to learn from my posts, others posts, from other perspectives. I would like to say that when people resort to abusive verbal violence, it makes it tougher for me to learn and grow from what that person may be sharing. But again, if I can learn from an abusive post, rather than angerily typing or signing off, I benefit, I win. peace y'all Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )__________________________________________________________________________( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 20:07:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA10855; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:07:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA10821; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:07:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from (rayvonie@smx-ca3-02.ix.netcom.com [205.186.78.98]) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA21108 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:06:28 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:06:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199612050406.UAA21108@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> From: rayvonie@ix.netcom.com (Ray Vonie) Subject: re: CW- Promoting Safe Sex? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Blake Adler, You wrote: >So I would not be so quick to state that it is only Wayne's opinion in >this matter. Cool World has a lousy reputation, and it is difficult for >me to believe that all of the people that have spoken of their >experiences are somehow out of touch with reality. The only reality that I think people are out of touch with is this ridicules notion that there is an obsurd amount of money being made at these parties. If this was realy the fact, don't you think more people would be throwing them, and don't you think there would be more than one CW party this year. The chance to loose a fortune is a lot grater then the opertunity to make a little profit in this buisness. >I think Wayne was asking you to admit that which is fairly obvious, that >CW is out to make money first. To be seccesful in any form of entertainmnet production, the enetertainmnet has to come first. In rave production the rave also has to come first. If your audience is not happy, they will not come back. That means you have to give people more than their monies worth in order to maintain a folowing. Since CW is always growing, I think that that saids that there are a lot of people out there that enjoy the events. And whats so wrong with making money, especialy if it is in doing something you enjoy, and it is something that bring joy and pleasure to many people?? Can you think of a better way to make a living?? >As far as "rumors" and hostile attitudes, if CW truly threw great >parties, there would be no such attitudes. People in the sceen use CW as a scapegoat for all the sceens problems. Why?, Because its easy. But it does not solve anything. It just contradicts the ideals of the sceen. >No, you do not. CW brings together people that can afford the high price >of admission. This is not *ALL* people. Not even close. New year is a very expensive night, and it costs a lot to throw a party on NY's eve. People are used to paying that much, check around, its just the way it is for a production of this caliber. On regular weekends during the year CW parties cost the same as any other large party. I hope this clarifies everything. PLUR Ray Vonie. bad spelling is my trademark From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 20:08:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA10997; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:08:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA10984; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:08:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.134.228.38] (ppp038-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.38]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id UAA11976 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:06:08 -0800 Message-Id: <199612050406.UAA11976@mail1.sirius.com> Subject: Re: ruffage Date: Wed, 4 Dec 96 20:08:23 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Michael Standish To: "sfr" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Mad props to Stareyes. This tape is hella phat. Cute cover, phat beats, beautiful vocals, seamless mixes. This is straight up put on the head-phones, crank it up to 11, and dance around like a spazzdik stuff. Michael-Bob says check it out. >who: * Star Eyes* >what: new tape....Ruffage. >90 minutes of pure jungle business.. >including tracks on moving shadow, new identity, SOUR, v recordings, and >more... >$8 dollars... >email me for more info >stareyes@sfjungle.com >full color cover and track listing inside.... Michael Standish DoD#732 standish@sirius.com CBR600F 510.525.FILM (525.3456) 2 wheels good, 4 wheels bad From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 20:16:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA11627; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:16:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from guilder.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA11613; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:16:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by guilder.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.8.1) id UAA14250; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:16:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:16:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.16.19961204201123.2d3f7e74@peseta.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: ez056875@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (16) To: rayvonie@ix.netcom.com (Ray Vonie) From: Matthew Wietzke Subject: Re: More Cool World From Paul Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >>I am sure Ray Vonie, if thats his real name. Sounds pretty peculiar to >>me. >>rayvonie say it 10 times fast. Hmm are you saying RAVE ON E? He, he. >Of course thats not my real name....Like duhh. It used to be my dj name, >but I gave up spining because I was making to much money, and decided to >throw parties instead. I was just wondering why you gave up DJing. Because you made too much money? I'm not saying that's bad, but i'm sorry, that's the last thing that I'd do. If I ever got to the point where I was making good money for doing what I love, I don't think I'd _EVER_ quit doing it. Just wondering why... Peace, Matthew Wietzke mswietzke@ucdavis.edu, xpress@bigfoot.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 20:17:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA11711; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA11693; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:17:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XqL26355; Wed, 04 Dec 1996 23:14:59 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: More Cool World From Paul Message-ID: <19961204.201137.3374.8.plur@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-11,24-26 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 23:14:59 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Paul, I just looked at your webpage... >(http://www.geocities.com/Area51/7590/rave.html) > >What the fuck, talk about racism, what's with that shit about Homies >not >belonging at raves, or how the quality of a rave is inversely >proportional to the number of homies who show up (although it appears >alright if "hoes" show up). > >-dj radon > I am truly sorry for anyone who thought the same. Actually I have not recently changed my views on the rave scene. I only put it up in Sptember when i was not completly understanding everything. i have all the pages ready to be changed on my computer. As it saids its under construction. And it still is. I am having a huge problem with my homepage provider. they were doing something to make the system better and run faster and in turn they have lost many people's password files. i have not been able to change anything on my homepage since the day after my review of smiles. I will be changing the Homie Hoe Score part. I am considering removing it totaly. I am sorry about all that. It not very PLURisha t the moment. I am waiting for my homepage provider to email me back with my password ASAP. They just finished fixing their problems and as soon as I can I will change the homepage. Check back maybe in January. PLUR Paul From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 20:30:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA12674; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:30:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from m6.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA12638; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:29:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plur@juno.com) by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XzD26355; Wed, 04 Dec 1996 23:28:14 EST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: More Cool World From Paul Message-ID: <19961204.202459.3374.10.plur@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,6-7,9-12,16-17,19,24-25,32-33,36-37,41-45, 47-52,56,59-60 From: plur@juno.com (plur@ juno.com) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 23:28:14 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Once again. Ray Vonie comes and email us back insultin all ravers of kinds with stuff about stikers being graffiti??????? Guess We'll never win on this one hu? I must comend you Ray i think that you are very good with your words and that you beleve every single thing you are saying. I am glad you have so much faith in yourself. I ams sorry about that crack about RAVE ON E. Remeber have not been raving for vey long and never knew that you used to be a DJ. And you quit cuz you had too much money? Okay I guess. But about the Persian Maphia was totaly twisted around by you. Just take out the word Maphia and ignore the Persian part. I am jsut trying to calrify which Mafia i mean. And by the way I know plenty of Persians who spread the PLUR at raves. I am sure you will respond with a huge email about how good COOL WORLD is, but this will be an on going battle. No one will win. I see your points vivdly and clear. I understand what you are trying to say, but I have been to a Feel Good and it was not full of good vibes and there were many ravers there. I don't care about Homies Hoes or Sakter or Persians going to parties. I ahve gotten more than my share of rides to a Rave by actual Homies. The difference is that the Homies are not Bad Vibes. they don't refuse candy. they understadn that a rave is raver's territory and they relaize how deeply the vibes affect us and effect us in so many ways. Raves are for everyone. Like you said, but some people shouldn't be raving. Instead of wasting all that Paper for huge flyers maybe you should add one about rave etiquette. What PLUR is and spell it ou for them. If you really cared so much you would understand that its not safe to advertise a rave to anyone. Only people which exibit some kind of PLUR some time. Anyone who kills people for fun or is in a gang, should not be there, unless they want tu change their life drasticly. Like all Good Vibes, I have been sat down by a raver and been eduacated before the rave and on the way up there on how to act. I still don't get everything, yet I try my hardest not to be a bad vibe. Sorry for anything i said to you personaly Its not directed towards you. You just seem to be the ambassador for COOL WORLD/FEEL GOOD/BUZZ LINE/GLOBAL PARTY NETWORK. its not an attack on you. Dont take the personally. PLUR, Paul P.S. I jsut feel sorry that every raver know how much you bull shit everyone and i am tired of you pulling the wool over our eyes and saying how ravers are a plauge and are more prejudice to the fact that we dont want anyone, but ravers at a rave. the fact is that most homies are a bad vibe. Not all. A Homie can up to my friend and asked her for stickers. I give him props whoever he is. he is not a bad vibe. He is a good vibe. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/7590/rave.html From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 20:53:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id UAA14666; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:53:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA14658; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:53:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [207.171.196.135] [207.171.196.135] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVVoW-0005Mk-00; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:53:37 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 20:53:26 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: petergo@slip.net (Pete) Subject: >>> ASCENDENCE << This THURSDAY - SANTA CRUZ! Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This THURSDAY (DEC 5th) and every Thursday after is >>>ASCENDENCE<<< This Week: ASTRAL MATRIX - LIVE! GREG of Harmony KAMIA Located at Palookavile. 1133 Pacific Ave - Downtown Santa Cruz info: 408.429.2330 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 21:10:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id VAA16095; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA16090; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:10:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:10:52 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Behlendorf To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: A long shot but... (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Please direct responses to the sender, not me. Thanks. Brian --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- brian@hyperreal.com http://www.apache.org http://www.organic.com/jobs ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 03 Dec 96 10:55:00 PST From: Place Joanna Ext 8224 To: SFRaves Subject: A long shot but... ....when I visited SF back in July I stayed with Claire Korich for a week and had a brilliant time. I've since not been able to get hold of Claire despite sending a card to her old address which was sent back to me, calling Gateway which is the company she runs with Rob and John and her old AOL email is no longer apparent. She's well known at the outdoor parties and goes to the 'Friends & Family' set ups. I was going to repay the hospitality she showed me as she was due a visit to the UK sometime in November. If anyone knows where Claire is or has seen her recently please ask her to get in touch. I really would like to keep in contact with her !! Thanks a lot Jo, giving it large in the UK! xx From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 21:14:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id VAA16385; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:14:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA16379; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:14:08 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from mercury.Sun.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA12390; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:10:56 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from Ebay.Sun.COM ([129.150.111.20]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id PAA27738 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:10:18 -0800 X-Received: from dtbds4.EBay.Sun.COM by Ebay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id PAA28791; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:10:15 -0800 X-Received: by dtbds4.EBay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA27103; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:10:16 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:10:16 -0800 From: wave@dtbds4.Ebay.Sun.COM (Guillermo Lemus) Message-Id: <199612032310.PAA27103@dtbds4.EBay.Sun.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Hoodlums X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk All, I gotta add something to this thread. I hope it makes sense. Firstly I come from a Gangland but was smart enough to not get involved (not too much). It was mostly of Latin pursuasion (sp?). Sooo, every time I hear of gangstas from this list, I see Latino hoods in my mind. Maybe thats why Mr. Lee believes that the List is always refering to people of color. Because thats how he sees it. I see it differently now. I see any reference to gangstas, equally to that of a hoodlum or troublemaker or people who put up a front so that you may not see their weaknesses. They come in all different sizes, colors and sexes.But i think they are slowly evolving to ravers and we gotta show them we accept them for who they are I hope that made sense. TAKE CARE ALL MEMO (VERTIGO From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 21:17:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id VAA16685; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:17:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA16680; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:17:26 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from yei.csulb.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA24692; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:24:57 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from garuda.csulb.edu ([134.139.39.16]) by yei.csulb.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA16139 for ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:24:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:24:53 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612040724.XAA16139@yei.csulb.edu> X-Sender: ejordan@popmail.csulb.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: ejordan@csulb.edu (Eric Jordan) Subject: Bring your love together... Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Kaytee [member of sfraves] called me and told me that you alot of you were in disagreement over alot of things and you guys just didnt seem very cheery. My name is Eric and I am a member of Socal-Raves. I normally only post my massive messages to the friends I have at Socal-raves, but I think all of you could use a little positive light and I would just like to remind you all about what we are all in this for. We often think of raving as our weekend release at an event with dj's, an interesting environment, and the use of drugs (for some of us). We spend nearly $20 to get into these events, dance all night and when its over, we consider the journey over. But it is not. Raving is something that comes from WITHIN you. We all have felt the incredible vibe at some point, and what you need to do is carry that peaking vibe with you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. You can have the greatest time with your buddies without spending mega-money. All you need to do is care for those around you, and have love for everything and everyone. You all have that love. You all care about the peace we experience together and what good it does us all. You all care about the love that binds us in an eternal journey of music and people. You all care about the unity that we feel each time we reunite. You all care about the respect that is deserved by everyone on this planet, no matter what. I am here to tell you all that you are not alone in your journies. I will always be with each of you. If you ever feel alone and that all is lost, you only need to remember that I am with you projecting energy upon you. Not only am I doing so, but so is the love that comes from all ravers. Our always in the atmosphere. It is the most powerful thing on this earth. It is incredible to me, the journies we have experienced together as ravers, and the boundaries we have crossed in relation to the rest of mankind. Its almost as if ravers have unlocked a part of the brain that has been lying dormant for millions of years, perhaps forever. This part holds our concepts of PLUR, our appreciation for nature, our love for our beautiful music, and our ability to enter a trancelike state almost at will. If only everyone could experience what we experience. If I should die tommorow, I want you all to know, from the depths of my heart and my soul, that I TRULELY love each and everyone of you. I admire and respect all of you and I will continue to do so for as long as I shall remain on this planet. Remember my words during the week, if you are sad or depressed or just dont feel well. Be safe and take care this week. You need know nothing else about me other than that I care about you all and your saftey and well-being. I want you all to remember that. My love for you all has no boundaries. Bring your love together for one another now.... Lots of love, Eric Jordan ejordan@csulb.edu From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 21:24:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id VAA17311; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:24:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA17292; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 21:24:12 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from ssd.loral.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA20539; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:17:40 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from macpo.ssd.loral.com (macpo.ssd.loral.com [158.184.3.188]) by ssd.loral.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA08379 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:17:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612050017.QAA08379@ssd.loral.com> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:12:00 -0800 From: "KING, JAMES" Subject: FW: NRR (housing) To: sfraves X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey folks. Got a problem. Myself and my roommate are looking for housing. You may have read a post from Jason Green a while back looking for "3bdrm house for 3 professional males" well that is now 2 professional males Jason has decided not to move right now. This leaves me and my roommate in a predicament. We NEED A PLACE. 2bdrm or 3bdrm can be afforded. Keep in mind that we have 2cats and one small lovable dog. Also we NEED a tekno friendly environment as I spin. If anyone knows a possible option for us please respond as we have already put notice in to move out of our current location by Jan. 1rst. PLUR. James >=) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 22:30:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id WAA23181; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:30:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA23176; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.com (8.8.2/8.7.1) id WAA08178; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:29:57 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199612050629.WAA08178@xanadu.cyborganic.com> Subject: Sythetic Pleasures To: sf@cyborganic.net Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:29:57 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The entertaining and visually stumulating Synthetic Pleasuers is playing this Thursday and Friday night at the Red Vic Movie House, on Haight Street. -troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 22:50:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id WAA25153; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.humboldt.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id WAA25131; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:50:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by axe.humboldt.edu; id AA13302; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:50:04 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:50:04 -0800 (PST) From: Rebecca Klassen To: beat and ravish eaters Subject: wowsers! Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I left my mail for a day and GREAT SCOTT! But I think I'm gonna stick my foot in this long tirade. The last few times I've gone down to the city all I've been thinking of so many things (where's my life going, do I want to transfer to SF, the nature of friendship, you know that intense stuff that everyone thinks about) and something I've really been thinking about is the ever present "Ah, but what is a rave really?" Now, really what is this thang all about? I had such ideals when I first started partying. But has taken me a while to realize that people are people-- everyone has their goddamn mannerisms, or faults, or however you want to take it. Yet people (individuals) fail to realize that they are people too. "The world is such a cruel place...", and the only -good- individuals are themselves and their friends. What I guess I'm trying to say is that jumping onto a purist platform doesn't resolve much; everyone is massively hypocritical, everyone has a tinge of racism (don't try to deny it, we live in a racially tense society and you're going to pick it up). I asked a friend of mine once, -when did you consider yourself a raver? He said that he didn't consider himself a raver until a few parties ago, when he had fully been alive in the music -sober- (and this guy has been partying a long time). I thought that was so beautiful--anything "plur" was his own, he didn't need to be a raver to be plur. So what is this "plur" thing? If we would truly desire to characterize ourselves as such, we wouldn't give a shit if people were doin the -honk honk mack truck- in the chill room. Unity and respect are not juxtaposed with separatist "idealism". We are an amalgamation of people; therefore it is -impossible- to tell others what constitutes a rave other than what it means for yourself. So- argumentation cannot function if it is not constructive. Also, the massive thing- I've been to some damn good massives that far surpass underground "vibey" parties, and vice versa... Not sure what I tried to say but... rebecca From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 22:58:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id WAA25807; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:58:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA25799; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:58:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from well.com (phred@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.6/8.7.5) with ESMTP id WAA16564; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) id WAA17195; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:58:22 -0800 (PST) From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9612042258.ZM17192@well.com> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 22:58:21 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Wayne D. Correia" "Re: Cabin Music Update Part II" (Dec 2, 3:52pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: "Wayne D. Correia" , "Mark D. Camp" Subject: Re: Cabin Music Update Part II Cc: "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Northwestern (the one here in Portland, right?) duped my "Soularium" tape in 1994 and I was quite pleased with it. Good quality tape, excellent reproduction and they sent a delivery guy to drop off my order rather than having to go out and get it (of course, I'm local). phred From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 23:06:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA26313; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:06:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA26309; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from greg (sjx-ca55-01.ix.netcom.com [206.214.106.97]) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA19220 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:06:10 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961204224754.006a9ae4@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: ascend@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 22:47:57 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Harmony Subject: I desperately need a ride 2 "Ascendence!!!" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello, I was wondering if anyone out there in SFR land was going to Ascendence tomorrow (Thursday). I am spinning at 11(or 10pm, I don't remember) and could really use a ride. I can get guest pass(es) if needed, as well as pitch in for gas. If one of you could help me out I would be greatful!!! Oh yeah, and you all should come out to the "Ascendence" party on Thursday. It should be hella fun! - (that's my BSP for the day) Peace, love and harmony to all!!! Greg =) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Dec 4 23:12:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id XAA26662; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:12:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA26657; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:12:54 -0800 (PST) From: GVT1@aol.com Received: by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA21438 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 02:12:22 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 02:12:22 -0500 Message-ID: <961205021221_1085593910@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: In search of promoters Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm looking to hook up with promoters in san fran. If you are a san fran promoter, please e-mail me back. Thanks TEkno with soUL D.J. Heavy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 00:03:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id AAA29067; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:03:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA29060; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:03:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA29736; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:02:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:02:53 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: Rob Rayle cc: grigsby@netgate.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: Humans & other animals In-Reply-To: <199612042029.MAA24778@klaatu.autodesk.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear Rob, This is fascinating! When did the giraffes and whales and plants tell you all this? Or did you read it in the adventures of Dr. Doolittle -- no, wait, those books were written by a human! Much love (& too much sarcasm, probably), ;) <<< Starchild >>> My computer tells me that on Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Rob Rayle shared: > > We humans *in our complete and total objectivity* consider a high ratio > of brain size to body size and the ability to make and use tools the main > criteria for how "advanced" a species is. > > Strangely enough, other species have totally different criteria. > For giraffes, it's mostly length of the neck. The marine mammals consider > the ability to hold the breath underwater for a long time quite significant. > > Many plant species feel that if you can't maintain a perfect meditative > state indefinitely while synthesizing your own food from sunlight and taking in > only what water and minerals the universe sends you, you are a troglodyte. > > > I appreciate that Grigsbeast may feel that he would be exhibiting > > arrogance by calling humanity the most advanced lifeform on the planet. > > At least that seems to be a common concern of humans uncomfortable with > > the idea of the primacy of our species. > > But the evidence we have points to this being true; surely > > speaking truth does not make one arrogant. "Disrespecting" lower life > > forms is perhaps a sign of arrogance, but recognizing that they are lower > > is not. > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 00:34:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id AAA01151; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:34:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuba.aix.calpoly.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA01146; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:34:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by tuba.aix.calpoly.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA68511; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:34:13 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:34:13 -0800 (PST) From: Austin Woffington To: Scott Wade Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: DJ Equipment In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19961203160617.0069a18c@gate.bronson.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I heard through socal raves there is a place in LA and on the internet to get new/used equipment. The Recycler I'm not sure of the exact http but I think its: www.recycler.com or www.therecycler.com I think I should check it out too. :) PLUR, Austin ------------------( ( ( ((0)) ) ) )----------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 00:38:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id AAA01354; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:38:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA01347; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:38:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA01184; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:38:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:38:35 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: The Grigsbeast cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: Humans & other animals In-Reply-To: <32A5F9FB.1282@netgate.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear SFRavefriends, I believe the fact that many of us are concerned about this "destructive impact" is further evidence that we have reached a higher level of evolution. What other animals (or plants!) worry about protecting the environment, or whether they may be causing other species to become extinct? With greater ability comes greater capacity for both good and evil, something we definitely need to keep in mind. Much love, <<< Starchild >>> My computer tells me that on Wed, 4 Dec 1996, The Grigsbeast shared: > Starchild wrote: > > > Most of us had no hand creating the technology we use, true. But > > it was created by humans, not seagulls or chimpanzees. It is a recent, > > rapid, and unprecedented development in the history of Earth. > > However, given its destructive impact on the rest of the Earth (we've > already taken out about a third of the existing species on the planet), > and the consequent impact on our _own_ future ability to survive, I > don't think that we are entirely justified in calling ourselves > "higher". Rapid, unprecedented, yes; but not "higher". > > > I appreciate that Grigsbeast may feel that he would be exhibiting > > arrogance by calling humanity the most advanced lifeform on the planet. > > At least that seems to be a common concern of humans uncomfortable with > > the idea of the primacy of our species. > > Your second sentence shows that you're assuming the truth of your > argument. Again, we've had more _impact_ in a shorter time than any > other species we know about, but that doesn't equate to "primacy" or > being "higher". Is a chainsaw "higher" than a beaver because it can > cause more damage in less time? > > > But the evidence we have points to this being true; surely > > speaking truth does not make one arrogant. > > There's nothing wrong with arrogance so long as you can back it up. > Representing a value judgment as truth, however, is not arrogance, it's > misrepresentation. > > > "Disrespecting" lower life forms is perhaps a sign of arrogance, but > > recognizing that they are lower is not. > > "Lower" is a value judgement, by which you disrespect. If I said you > were lower than I, what would be your reaction? > > It's easy to say a label isn't prejudicial when you're not the one being > labelled. Funny how this ties in with the gangsta thread. > > > I believe in a healthy respect for all life, even to the extent of > > being uncomfortable doing anything about the ants in my kitchen. Yet they > > are still ants, and I don't hold their lives in the same regard as that > > of a creature capable of love, fear, hopes, dreams, aspirations, > > appreciation of the beauty around us and abstract thought, i.e. a human > > being. > > What evidence do you have that these traits are unique to humans? > > > And as for the average human leading a "stunningly featureless" > > life, well, that's what we have raves for. > > I agree with you here. Raves are a good start towards reclaiming our > desires and emotions for ourselves. > > // grigsbeast > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 00:57:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id AAA02090; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:57:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA02082; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:57:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA01999 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:57:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:57:27 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: SFRavefriends Subject: Paging Arthur Chandler Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Thanks, & sorry for the bandwidth... I think I have an outdated email address for him. <<< Starchild >>> From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 01:00:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id BAA02292; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 01:00:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA02265; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id AAA27139; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:59:55 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id AAA15262; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:59:54 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:59:53 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: NRR: Humans & other animals To: Starchild cc: The Grigsbeast , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Starchild wrote: > I believe the fact that many of us are concerned about this > "destructive impact" is further evidence that we have reached a higher > level of evolution. What other animals (or plants!) worry about protecting > the environment, or whether they may be causing other species to become > extinct? What other creatures HAVE to worry due to their own actions? peas, Ran D.Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance Floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 03:35:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id DAA15617; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 03:35:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id DAA15611; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 03:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (senc@localhost) by ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (8.7/StupidYak 1.0) with SMTP id DAA00586; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 03:35:41 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 03:35:41 -0800 (PST) From: Jack Chang To: Mr nStuff cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRRe: <<--Re: a bomb web site-->> In-Reply-To: <199612050241.SAA15147@mom.hooked.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I played Quake on my friend's pentium once. It was awesome. Only wish I had a faster computer than a DX/50. Come Janurary when I get a new computer, things are going to get a lot more messy. See ya out there. Jack From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 05:01:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id FAA22444; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:01:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom8.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id FAA22440; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from madox@localhost) by netcom8.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id FAA28361; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:01:25 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:01:25 -0800 (PST) From: 2oo1 Subject: Cool World. To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I've been reading the messages about CW, and how the people on this list feel about it, and then that one guy (ray?) trying to defend CW. anyway, let me just state a few things. i said before last week that there is no way i will go to the upcomming CW because of the price tag. on the other hand, at the CW raves i've been to, i had a relative good time. Who ever funds and promots CW is in it for a certain market. and the market is there. if people didnt want to go to big raves with tons of people, then CW would be out of business. perhaps CW will fall if they keep raising the price tag of admission. let the market work things out for them. CW is the only group of people willing to put a large ammount of money into a into their investment. if the returns dont come in, then they will have to change how they do things. but for now, they have the market for large raves. let the people decide if they want to spend $25-plus on CW. but its really no need to bad mouth and complain as much as most people do. if you dont like CW, dont go. on another note, CW also creates a trickle down effect. if first timers go to CW, and love it. they are going to be hungry for more raves. they will start going to smaller (and perhaps better, as some people would say) raves. If these people dont "understand" raves (as some people on this list would assume), then the smaller raves would give them the dirrection they might need to enjoy small raves. if people feel that only a select ammount of people should even go to raves, then thats fucked up, and in my opinion (although others will dissagre) is segregation. all in all, let the market system work it out for CW. also remember that CW helps the total rave community by getting more people involved in raves. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 05:24:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id FAA24394; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:24:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id FAA24356; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:23:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from slip.net.slip.net [204.162.172.249] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVdmO-00076w-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:23:56 -0800 Message-ID: <32A65320.2D6F@slip.net> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 20:44:16 -0800 From: Adam Mednick/philip diaz Reply-To: trance@slip.net Organization: Euphonic Genesis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Rave Nazis Must Die References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk John S. Lee wrote: > P.S. Believe me, there are no more raves. I don't care what the flyer says. hm. and if i said that Europe didn't exist, 'cuz no one ever told me about it, would that necessarily make it true? yeah, Raves still happen (i seen 'em myself!), but maybe you're just not finding out about them... just a thought. -pd From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 05:24:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id FAA24410; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:24:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id FAA24367; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:24:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from slip.net.slip.net [204.162.172.249] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVdmQ-000775-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:23:58 -0800 Message-ID: <32A65451.4898@slip.net> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 20:49:21 -0800 From: Adam Mednick/philip diaz Reply-To: trance@slip.net Organization: Euphonic Genesis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: News article on drugs References: <199612032008.MAA03774@trix.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Gioni Pasquinelli wrote: > > Last year I did a research paper on LSD and was surprised to find a couple > recent articles about it. Of course most of the experiments are on rats > and such much still very interesting work is being done with illegal drugs. > > You just have to look for them. There are a lot of neat, IMHO, science > journals out there, you just need the time to read them all and you'll run > across some very interesting stuff, amidst some other pretty boring stuff. the place where i work (graphic design/print/copy place) made copies of the HUGE stack of news/magazine articles & research on LSD... i managed to get my hands on a copy. my guess is that it's about 500 or so pages of photocopied and downloaded articles. interesting reading... pd From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 05:24:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id FAA24432; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:24:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id FAA24378; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:24:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from slip.net.slip.net [204.162.172.249] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVdmS-00077D-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:24:00 -0800 Message-ID: <32A65A01.20F0@slip.net> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 21:13:37 -0800 From: Adam Mednick/philip diaz Reply-To: trance@slip.net Organization: Euphonic Genesis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Thankyou References: <32A52287.1714@netgate.net> <32A62E84.1A75@colorado.edu> <19961204.184237.3374.3.plur@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk plur@ juno.com wrote: > Also. If Feel Good is not COOL WORLD. Then why > is he sticking up for them. I don't see all the other people from > Harmony, Ghosttribe, Spundae, Charity, ,etc. saying anything. > Thanks > PLUR, > Paul uh, did someone say "Charity?" xoxox & plur, philip-yeah-we-just-got-the-thank-you-letter-from-LegalAdvocatesForChildrenAndYouth-for-the-$2k-that-we(charity)-gave-them-to-defend-children-in-the-courts-diaz From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 05:24:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id FAA24455; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:24:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id FAA24386; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:24:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from slip.net.slip.net [204.162.172.249] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vVdmU-00077M-00; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:24:02 -0800 Message-ID: <32A6CD8E.2C90@slip.net> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 05:26:38 -0800 From: Adam Mednick/philip diaz Reply-To: trance@slip.net Organization: Euphonic Genesis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: ecstasy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I was mulling around various newsgroups and arcticles and web sites about drugs, and specifically E. I ended up reading "E is for Ecstasy" off of the hyperreal site. I read this passage in the part about various people's experiences and it struck me as such a great summary of what E does to people. "There's a very basic misunderstanding here about the ways Ecstasy works. I don't think the drug is manufacturing an experience of love. I think it is doing something far humbler and more specific than that. It takes fear away. It is as a consequence of this subtraction of fear that love appears. " just thought id share it w/ y'all. luv, --adam-- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 06:05:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id GAA27875; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 06:05:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from iceberg.anchorage.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id GAA27867; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 06:05:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from compromised.n0b0dy.org (val-ca3-55.ix.netcom.com [206.217.130.119]) by iceberg.anchorage.net (8.6.11/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA01875 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:02:29 -0900 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 05:02:29 -0900 Message-Id: <199612051402.FAA01875@iceberg.anchorage.net> X-Sender: tymat@iceberg.anchorage.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Strawberry Flavored Stuff Subject: alternative transportation to events Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello, I was wondering if there are other alternatives to driving to sfraves other than taking a taxi cab. Going to sfraves has been quite difficult for me and my friends since we're not used to driving in SF and we always get lost and going home is even more tedious since I live in the north bay. One of my friends suggested that we drive up all the way to richmond then take the BART from there up to Market and from there we are thinking of a way other than taking a taxi to whatever map point or venue we're supposed to go. Thanks for your time. PLUR =] anthony From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 07:30:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id HAA05938; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:30:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from uhost.ampex.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id HAA05932; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:29:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ampex.com (amppo.ampex.com) by uhost.ampex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25520; Thu, 5 Dec 96 07:28:29 PST Received: from rwc-serv.ampex by ampex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19557; Thu, 5 Dec 96 07:33:20 PST Received: from dst-s4-130.ampex by rwc-serv.ampex (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA03725; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:31:00 -0800 Received: by dst-s4-130.ampex (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA10739; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:27:37 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:27:37 -0800 From: grant@ampex.com (Grant Melvin) Message-Id: <199612051527.HAA10739@dst-s4-130.ampex> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, ejordan@csulb.edu Subject: Re: Bring your love together... Cc: grant@ampex.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi Eric, Thanks for the sentiments. My take on all the recent flaming is: "Where there is ANGER, there is PAIN, Turn it around & let LOVE live AGAIN" From I wish that (circa 1990) by ???? some band I've forgotten - like most things :p Cheers, Grant From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 08:27:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id IAA12270; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:27:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA12258; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:27:05 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI02@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id LAA01551; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:26:50 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20790; Thu, 5 Dec 96 08:26:48 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 2A6F7D00; Thu, 5 Dec 96 08:26:56 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:22:21 -0800 Message-Id: <2A6F7D00.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re[2]: shitty post, gangstah, etc, etc What FOOLS these mor To: sfraves - send mail to list , "Thompson. Jim" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk "Captain, the borg are wearing adidas and circle dancing. i believe it is giving me an anxiety attack! I feel compelled to join them." "Data, perhaps now would be a good time to switch OFF your gangsta circuit. This is obviously another CHEAP PLOY to assimilate you into their collective!" "An excellent idea, Captain " "Yo, wassup G's. We are the Borg. Resistance is futile..." ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: shitty post, gangstah, etc, etc What FOOLS these mortal Author: "Thompson. Jim" at ccsmtp Date: 12/4/96 5:27 PM what FOOLS these mortals be! jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 08:29:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id IAA12424; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA12407; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:29:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (raygun@localhost) by value.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA17468; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:29:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:29:37 -0800 (PST) From: Reagan Reid To: Adam Mednick/philip diaz cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: ecstasy In-Reply-To: <32A6CD8E.2C90@slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I found an interesting article in this month's Details magazine about 21 year-old Sean Shayan who founded and expanded the herbal ecstacy drug craze. I have to be jealous of this guy who at *my* age has made: $300 million ! Good lord that's alot of money. The article goes on to say how Sean has never taken a single drug in his life (?) and exposes his long running scam. After numerous tests were done on some of his products including; Cloud 9, Magic Mushrooms and Ultimate Xphoria doctors discovered that taking these drugs were "like drinking 7 cups of coffee or taking a lot of Sudafed." Sean can't confirm or deny this since he states that he's never tried any of his products. He's advertised herbal ecstacy as a safe natural alternative to taking drugs bought on the street.But according to the FDA, ephedrine ( the main ingredient ) has been linked to 17 deaths and 600 health complaints. We have heard about how MDMA has caused it's own problems and unfortunatly deaths. But, this guy knows what he is doing and how can you trust someone who hasn't even felt the effects of his own product. Again, he's gained a shitload of money from this scam, but I don't see him ever gaining the public's trust. If you happen to read this article tell me what you think. Reagan On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Adam Mednick/philip diaz wrote: > I was mulling around various newsgroups and arcticles and web sites > about drugs, and specifically E. I ended up reading "E is for Ecstasy" > off of the hyperreal site. I read this passage in the part about > various people's experiences and it struck me as such a great summary of > what E does to people. > > "There's a very basic misunderstanding here about the ways Ecstasy > works. I don't think the drug is manufacturing an experience of love. I > think it is doing something far humbler and more specific than > that. > > It takes fear away. It is as a consequence of this subtraction of fear > that love appears. " > > > > just thought id share it w/ y'all. > > luv, > > --adam-- > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 08:29:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id IAA12449; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:29:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA12413; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:29:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com [205.231.222.64]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA04555 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:29:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:29:42 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: Re: Cool World facts and figures Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Boy, making an easy $100,000+ by throwing a party sounds great. That's how much at the least they will make off this. You figure they can get about around 7000-8000 people maybe more. They expect 15,000 people. There charging $25-$35 for this party. They will clear more then $200,000 just off ticket sales, and if all 15,000 people show and only pay $25 they will get $375,000 off tickets. Selling over priced water and food and booze will clear even more money. So figure $500,000. A quarter of a million dollars mostly on ticket sales alone. I highly dought that the party will cost that much. Probally more like half that. So an easy $200,000 to $250,000 is great.. That's not including what the sponsors will be giving them either. Damn, I'm in the wrong job. So please tell me it's NOT a money thing. If my heart wasn't in the right place, I'd be doing it too. But it is in the right place and I wouldn't be in it for the money. God knows I like to have money, but not by doing it the way CW does it. Check out there website..www.coolworldprod.com...and look under attraction....caged futuristic Go-Go dancers. Erotic/futuristic fasion show..Alien girls with sugar treats....what the hell is this. I don't know, it just doesn't sound right to me. Remember, I was using $25 as the price which stopped on the Dec 1st...Now it's $30 until the day of the event and then $35 at the door. So they may very will get close to the $1,000,000 mark depending on when people buy tickets. I don't know, sounds like an over priced, wacked out, let's make the 11 O'clock news again, drug and sex infested night mirror to me. Remember, these are the promoters of Cyberfest were they made the news for kids overdosing and being killed at that event. These are facts. So when people say that CW sucks, I'll tend to beleive them with those facts backing them up. There not in it for the people, and certainly not to help the scene any with those stats. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 08:35:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id IAA13063; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from guilder.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA13056; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by guilder.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.8.1) id IAA18056; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:35:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:35:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612051635.IAA18056@guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Rick Riffle Subject: ARGON (BSP) Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Just in case you are in the Sacto area this Friday, December 6, RE: will be performing live idm/ambient at ARGON. It's supposed to be a "secured & save virgin space" according to the flyer, and dj's will be: Calos Campos; DLX; Simon Apex; Rockit; and Dennis. Rigatony productions will be providing the Elemental Breakdown Room, and that's where RE: will be performing. The price is only $7 presale. It doesn't say how much it will be at the door. Info (916) 484-4040. Come say hi if you go. Rick From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 09:07:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA16335; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA16329; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:07:51 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI02@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id MAA03414; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:07:33 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22691; Thu, 5 Dec 96 09:07:31 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 2A701590; Thu, 5 Dec 96 09:07:37 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:02:50 -0800 Message-Id: <2A701590.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re[2]: Cool World facts and figures To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk this reminds me of the refrigerator. huh? well, you see...back when the refrigerator first came out, approximately... 25% of the people bought one right away and threw away their icebox. 25% said "my parents didn't have one, why do I need one" 25% just didn't want one (they were skeptical) 25% said "refrigerator? icebox? what are those?" we have now evolved to just about everyone having some type of refrigeration. now it's "you don't have a refrigerator?" <---what kind of kook is that? NOW YOU MAY ASK..."what does that have to do with cool world?" well, it's the same type of mentality. someone filled this world with a substantial number of stupid people (maybe stupid's not the right word, how about people with a low awareness level). some of these people are the same type of people that say "there's no problem with the environment". Now I know who you are... (hee hee) so, there are a lot of consumers out there that will just mindlessly pay $35 to go to one of these events. i'm not saying it won't be a good party, it might well go off. these types of massives can be fun a few times a year. i say let them charge that if they want. in order for our society to evolve to one where people in business charge only enough to cover costs and make a little for themselves to live on, it has to be voluntary. look at the refrigerator. what shelf are you on? or do you still have an icebox? deepfog ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Cool World facts and figures Author: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) at ccsmtp Date: 12/5/96 8:29 AM Boy, making an easy $100,000+ by throwing a party sounds great. That's how much at the least they will make off this. You figure they can get about around 7000-8000 people maybe more. They expect 15,000 people. There charging $25-$35 for this party. They will clear more then $200,000 just off ticket sales, and if all 15,000 people show and only pay $25 they will get $375,000 off tickets. Selling over priced water and food and booze will clear even more money. So figure $500,000. A quarter of a million dollars mostly on ticket sales alone. I highly dought that the party will cost that much. Probally more like half that. So an easy $200,000 to $250,000 is great.. That's not including what the sponsors will be giving them either. Damn, I'm in the wrong job. So please tell me it's NOT a money thing. If my heart wasn't in the right place, I'd be doing it too. But it is in the right place and I wouldn't be in it for the money. God knows I like to have money, but not by doing it the way CW does it. Check out there website..www.coolworldprod.com...and look under attraction....caged futuristic Go-Go dancers. Erotic/futuristic fasion show..Alien girls with sugar treats....what the hell is this. I don't know, it just doesn't sound right to me. Remember, I was using $25 as the price which stopped on the Dec 1st...Now it's $30 until the day of the event and then $35 at the door. So they may very will get close to the $1,000,000 mark depending on when people buy tickets. I don't know, sounds like an over priced, wacked out, let's make the 11 O'clock news again, drug and sex infested night mirror to me. Remember, these are the promoters of Cyberfest were they made the news for kids overdosing and being killed at that event. These are facts. So when people say that CW sucks, I'll tend to beleive them with those facts backing them up. There not in it for the people, and certainly not to help the scene any with those stats. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 09:13:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA16840; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:13:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA16826; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:13:00 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI02@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id MAA03654; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:12:51 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22889; Thu, 5 Dec 96 09:12:49 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 2A7029A0; Thu, 5 Dec 96 09:12:58 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:08:25 -0800 Message-Id: <2A7029A0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re[2]: ecstasy To: Adam Mednick/philip diaz , Reagan Reid Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk you know the funny thing is in "think and grow rich" (yeah, i talk about that book a lot, i like it, anyone have a beef with me about it, we'll have a breakdancing contest to settle it!) there are something like 10 or 20 attributes of a rich person, and financial independence lists LAST on the list. This person might not be as rich as you may think. and just because he has 300 million doesn't mean he will always have it. i've heard from more than one source of lottery winners that win millions that are right back in their financial mess they were in before they won. deepfog ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: ecstasy Author: Reagan Reid at ccsmtp Date: 12/5/96 8:29 AM I found an interesting article in this month's Details magazine about 21 year-old Sean Shayan who founded and expanded the herbal ecstacy drug craze. I have to be jealous of this guy who at *my* age has made: $300 million ! Good lord that's alot of money. The article goes on to say how Sean has never taken a single drug in his life (?) and exposes his long running scam. After numerous tests were done on some of his products including; Cloud 9, Magic Mushrooms and Ultimate Xphoria doctors discovered that taking these drugs were "like drinking 7 cups of coffee or taking a lot of Sudafed." Sean can't confirm or deny this since he states that he's never tried any of his products. He's advertised herbal ecstacy as a safe natural alternative to taking drugs bought on the street.But according to the FDA, ephedrine ( the main ingredient ) has been linked to 17 deaths and 600 health complaints. We have heard about how MDMA has caused it's own problems and unfortunatly deaths. But, this guy knows what he is doing and how can you trust someone who hasn't even felt the effects of his own product. Again, he's gained a shitload of money from this scam, but I don't see him ever gaining the public's trust. If you happen to read this article tell me what you think. Reagan On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Adam Mednick/philip diaz wrote: > I was mulling around various newsgroups and arcticles and web sites > about drugs, and specifically E. I ended up reading "E is for Ecstasy" > off of the hyperreal site. I read this passage in the part about > various people's experiences and it struck me as such a great summary of > what E does to people. > > "There's a very basic misunderstanding here about the ways Ecstasy > works. I don't think the drug is manufacturing an experience of love. I > think it is doing something far humbler and more specific than > that. > > It takes fear away. It is as a consequence of this subtraction of fear > that love appears. " > > > > just thought id share it w/ y'all. > > luv, > > --adam-- > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 09:21:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA17608; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:21:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA17601; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:21:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BBE28E.6A3B86A0@misnt1.rely.com>; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:26:37 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'SFraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: RE: "Doo youuu the way to San Jose?" Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:26:36 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey, thanks for all the responses... Allthough the correct factor was won by many about what was an Onomatopoeia, the 10/10 answer came from Bri@value.net for the creativity in the answer. --_Adam >---------- >From: Adam Guevara >Subject: "Doo youuu the way to San Jose?" > >Hello , > >Im fixin' to buyin' me a presale tix to _Onomatopoeia_ (Or whatever >it's called). So this post is Rave related (Nayh, nayh...). > >Bonus NNR thread maker: What IS an Onomatopoeia??? > > >---Adam >"Stay Connected..." > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 09:22:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA17747; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:22:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA17700; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:22:05 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21474; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:22:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:22:00 -0800 (PST) To: Jondabomb@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: CW- Promoting Safe Sex? In-Reply-To: <961204224918_1684864389@emout06.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996 Jondabomb@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 96-12-04 22:36:41 EST, you write: > > << As far as "rumors" and hostile attitudes, if CW truly threw great > parties, there would be no such attitudes. >> > Anyone remember all the posts about Martin and the gathering??? > You know, maybe for a "true raver"(whatever that is) cool world would suck > because it glamorizes what they try and keep so private so underground, but > if people would just understand that, and let it be, i think everyone would > be happy. NOBODY is benifitting from all this negativity really folks, can't > we just respect each other? I'm in no way being disrespectful. CW has a poor reputation. Ray Vonie chooses to believe that it is because everyone has used Cool World as a scapegoat. Having spoken with several people that have been to Cool World events, the it seems that the reputation is earned. I am not calling Ray names, I am not making fun of him, all I am saying is that from what I have seen and heard, CW has earned its own reputation. Please do not confuse a negative statement with a disrespecful one. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 09:45:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA19934; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:45:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from aurora.romoidoy.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA19930; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from jay.zoom.com (cjb-isdnR.zoom.com [205.162.56.241]) by aurora.romoidoy.com (8.6.12/Romoidoy-Non-Hub-022896) with SMTP id JAA02622; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:45:43 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961205174610.006e7a30@zoom.com> X-Sender: cyberzen@zoom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 09:46:10 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, Austin Woffington From: Jay Bain Subject: Re: DJ Equipment Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Another site to check out for DJ equipment is GRIP Online. I helped update this LA-based /DJ Equipment/snowboard/skateboard/video game/ site. They have VERY cheap prices on used DJ equipment (I've seen used 1200's in the 300 range a lot). The URL is: http://www.ynh.com/grip/ We've also got Real Audio jungle, hip hop and Howard Stern to entertain you while you browse! I worked on this site with N8 Shimuzu, from Giant Robot magazine. At 12:34 AM 12/5/96 -0800, you wrote: > >I heard through socal raves there is a place in LA and on the internet to >get new/used equipment. The Recycler I'm not sure of the exact http but >I think its: www.recycler.com or www.therecycler.com >I think I should check it out too. >:) > > >PLUR, > > Austin > > ------------------( ( ( ((0)) ) ) )----------------- > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- @..@ C. J. Bain (----) cyberzen@cyberzen.com ( >__< ) http://www.cyberzen.com ^^ ~~ ^^ "...though you may have to explain subjects to your children that you perceive as wrong, it is better to have the freedom to explain it in your own words than be silenced under a government that has the power to squash anyone who opposes their views" ---Perry Farrell, 1990 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 09:46:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA20005; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from marble.litc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA20001; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:46:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com (arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.2.84]) by marble.litc.lockheed.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id KAA25567 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:46:21 -0700 (MST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBE291.4EA4F770@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:47:20 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: Randy C Cone , sfraves - send mail to list Subject: Re: NRR: Humans & other animals - Kill your step-children! Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:45:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > I believe the fact that many of us are concerned about this > "destructive impact" is further evidence that we have reached a higher > level of evolution. What other animals (or plants!) worry about protecting > the environment, or whether they may be causing other species to become > extinct? >> What other creatures HAVE to worry due to their own actions? How much do you know about animals? How about apes that kill their "stepchildren" when they take over another apes female? In fact, humans behave the same way? There was an article in Science that examined child abuse. It turns out that a LARGE portion of child abuse if from step-parents (origins of "evil stepmothers" in Fairy Tales?). Step-parents (according to this article were 60-70 TIMES more likely to abuse their non-biological children than parents their own biological off-spring...... How about hyena cubs that kill their own siblings? jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 09:55:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA20797; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:55:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA20763; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:55:41 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA24020; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:55:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:55:38 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: blkadder@value.net To: Ray Vonie cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: re: CW- Promoting Safe Sex? In-Reply-To: <199612050406.UAA21108@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Ray Vonie wrote: > Blake Adler, You wrote: Not even close, but ok.... > > >So I would not be so quick to state that it is only Wayne's opinion in > >this matter. Cool World has a lousy reputation, and it is difficult for > >me to believe that all of the people that have spoken of their > >experiences are somehow out of touch with reality. > > The only reality that I think people are out of touch with is this ridicules > notion that there is an obsurd amount of money being made at these parties. > If this was realy the fact, don't you think more people would be throwing > them, and don't you think there would be more than one CW party this year. > The chance to loose a fortune is a lot grater then the opertunity to make a > little profit in this buisness. This argument is pointless, as we have to trust someone to tell us how much money is made, as no books will be opened. I'm sorry, but when there is that much money involved, I would have a hard time trusting certain family members. There are absurd amounts of money being taken in, you cannot reasonably dispute that. How that money is distributed, who knows? CW's books are their business. However, I find no credibility in your statement without evidence to back it up. There is far too much money involved. > >I think Wayne was asking you to admit that which is fairly obvious, that > >CW is out to make money first. > > To be seccesful in any form of entertainmnet production, the enetertainmnet > has to come first. In rave production the rave also has to come first. If > your audience is not happy, they will not come back. That means you have to > give people more than their monies worth in order to maintain a folowing. > Since CW is always growing, I think that that saids that there are a lot of > people out there that enjoy the events. > And whats so wrong with making money, especialy if it is in doing something > you enjoy, and it is something that bring joy and pleasure to many people?? > Can you think of a better way to make a living?? Thank you for two things. The first is seperating CW from a rave, the second for being honest about the intentions. This is what is lacking in the literature CW produces. > >As far as "rumors" and hostile attitudes, if CW truly threw great > >parties, there would be no such attitudes. > > People in the sceen use CW as a scapegoat for all the sceens problems. > Why?, Because its easy. But it does not solve anything. It just > contradicts the ideals of the sceen. Please explain why anyone would make a scapegoat out of CW? Are the people I have spoken to who had bad experiences at CW events scapegoating CW? I would agree that I see a general sense of animosity towards Cool World. I bear some of that animosity myself. But for what to me is a very real reason: CW has taken Raving, and made a spectacle out of it, in order to make a buck. There is also bad press that has resulted from CW events, which does us all a disservice, including CW. If CW were honest about it, they would immediately stop billing their productions as raves, which they are not, and as you have said as "entertainment." > >No, you do not. CW brings together people that can afford the high price > >of admission. This is not *ALL* people. Not even close. > > New year is a very expensive night, and it costs a lot to throw a party on > NY's eve. People are used to paying that much, check around, its just the > way it is for a production of this caliber. On regular weekends during the > year CW parties cost the same as any other large party. Fair enough. But the point still stands. CW exists to bring together people that can afford the price of admission, and that is not all people. BLack Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 09:59:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id JAA21133; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:59:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA21122; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:59:31 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI02@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id MAA05061; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:59:02 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25228; Thu, 5 Dec 96 09:59:00 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 2A70D6A0; Thu, 5 Dec 96 09:59:06 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:54:33 -0800 Message-Id: <2A70D6A0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re[2]: NRR: Humans & other animals - Kill your step-children To: Randy C Cone , sfraves - send mail to list , "Thompson. Jim" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk how about mothers that smack their little kids in Safeway and send screaming shrills all the way down aisle 23? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ How about hyena cubs that kill their own siblings? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 10:06:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA21854; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA21841; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:06:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BBE294.A98C9320@misnt1.rely.com>; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:11:21 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'SFraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: FW: Its that time of year...again. (NNR) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:11:19 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello, heres a bit of NNR stuff. Mind you, it's not too PLURRY but, I smiled. ---Adam >---------- >From: Paul Cutaran >Sent: Thursday, December 5, 1996 6:18 PM >To: Adam Guevara > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jimil Borillo [SMTP:JBorillo@aklm.com] >Subject: Its that time of year...again. > >The 12 days of Christmas >December 14th >Dearest John: > >I went to the door today and the postman delivered a partridge in pear tree. >What a delightful gift. I couldn*t have been more surprised. >With dearest love and affection, >Agnes >---------------------------------------- > >December 15th >Dearest John: >Today the postman brought your very sweet gift. Just imagine, two turtle >doves.... I*m just delighted at your very thoughtful gift. They are just >adorable. >All my love, >Agnes >-------------------------- > >December 16th >Dear John: >Oh, aren*t you the extravagant one! Now I must protest. I don*t deserve >such generosity. Three French hens. They are just darling but I must >insist....you*re just too kind. >Love, >Agnes >------------------ > >December 17th >Today the postman delivered four calling birds. Now really! They are >beautiful, but don*t you think enough is enough? You*re being too romantic. >Affectionately, >Agnes >----------------------------- > >December 18th >Dearest John: >What a surprise!! Today the postman delivered five golden rings. One for >each finger. You*re just impossible, but I love it. Frankly, John, all >those squawking birds were beginning to get on my nerves. >All my love, >Agnes >-------------------------- > >December 19th >Dear John: >When I opened the door there were actually six geese a-laying on my front >steps. So you*re back to the birds agian, huh? Those geese are HUGE. Where >will I ever keep them? The neighbors are complaining and I can*t sleep >through the racket. PLEASE STOP!! >Cordially, >Agnes >------------------------ > >December 20th >John: >What*s up with you and those fucking birds???? Seven swans a-swimming. What >kind of goddam joke is this?! There*s bird shit all over the house and they >never stop the racket. I*m a nervous wreck and I can*t sleep at all at >night. IT*S NOT FUNNY.......So stop with those fucking birds!! >Sincerely, >Agnes >------------------------ > >December 21st >OK Buster:I think I prefer the birds. What the hell am I going to do with >eight maids a-milking? It*s not enough with all those birds and eight maids >a-milking, but they had to bring their own goddam cows. There is shit all >over the lawn and I can*t move into my own house. Just lay off me! SMART >ASS! >Ag >-------------- > >December 22nd >Hey Shithead: >What are you? Some kind of sadist? Now there*s nine pipers playing. And >Christ - do they play! They never stopped chasing those maids since they got >here yesterday morning. The cows are upset and stepping all over those >screeching birds. No wonder they screech. What am I going to do? The >neighbors have started a petition to evict me. You'll get yours! >From: >Ag >--------------- > >December 23rd >You Rotten Prick: >Now there*s ten ladies dancing - I don*t know why I call those sluts ladies. >They*ve been balling those nine pipers all night long. Now the cows can*t >sleep and they*ve got diarrhea. My living room is a river of shit. The >commisioner of buildings has subphoenaed me to give cause why the building >shouldn*t be condemned. I*m sicking the police on you! >One who means it, >Ag >---------------------------- > >December 24th >Listen Fuckhead: >What*s with the eleven lords a-leaping on those maids and aforementioned >*ladies*? Some of those broads will never walk again. Those pipers ran >through the maids and have been commiting sodomy with the cows. All 234 of >the birds are dead. They have been trampled to death in the orgy. I hope >you*re satisfied, you rotten swine! >Your sworn enemy, >Miss Agnes McCallister >------------------------------------------------ > >December 25th >(From the law offices of Taeker, Sprdar, and Baegar) >Dear Sir: >This is to acknowledge your latest gift of twelve fiddlers fiddling, which >you have seen fit to inflict on our client, Miss Agnes McCallister. The >destruction, of course, was total. All correspondence should come to our >attention. If you should attempt to reach Miss McCallister at the New York >Sanitarium, the attendants have instructions to shoot you on sight. With >this letter, please find attached a warrant for your arrest. > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 10:38:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA24806; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:38:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from saclink3.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA24697; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:38:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by saclink3.csus.edu (1.40.112.6/16.2) id AA151971078; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:37:58 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:37:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: For sanity's sake.... To: CT Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <32A59BB5.19D8@ix.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > Let's talk about what we're all gonna do this New Years Eve or somethin' > Well, I'm getting geared up for the Gathering 5 Year Anniversary on December 21st. The day after I graduate from college - YIPEE! :) Any word if there is going to be a Begin Again this new year's eve? love, Amy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 10:42:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA25204; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA25160; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.32.160.40] (hmfmac2.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.160.40]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA02779; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:41:47 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:41:53 -0800 To: blkadder@value.net, jsl@netcom.com From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: a desperate plea from mike... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEEEEEEZ take this "gangsta this gangsta that I'm right you're wrong" discussion off the list! It's passed the point of being a valuable educational discourse *long ago*, and if you guys want to keep arguing off the list that's just super, but I don't think I can deal with much more of this. There's probably alot of really cool posts getting lost between the cracks, 'cuz I tend not to read stuff when every other subject line is "re: shitty post--> blah blah blah." I'm cross-posting this to the list because you two aren't the only ones involved, just the most prominent ones. I know I'm not *even* the final judge on what should/shouldn't be on SFR, and I know there's a huge gray area, and I know that adidas and gangsta's and race and creed and shit are all rave-related, but once the discussion gets so out of hand that every post is a direct comeback to another direct comeback and the other list members are being ignored while spammed, I think that's where the gray area ends. thanks and take care, -m. ---> B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S <----------------------------- michal migurski tel:510.548.3225 lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu www.cyborganic.com/people/lachim lachim@cyborganic.net ---------------> MASS-PRODUCED GRAPHICS FOR A BETTER TOMMORROW <--- artists united against cornea gumbo. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 10:52:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id KAA26155; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA26130; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA25364 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:51:59 -0800 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199612051851.KAA25364@trix.cisco.com> Subject: Man Reports Stolen Pot Cache To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:51:58 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk COEUR D'ALENE, IDAHO - The Associated Press via Individual Inc. : Police were amused when Harlan Collinsworth gave them a list of items stolen from his home: a VCR, a bong used to smoke marijuana and a film canister containing pot. - ``We won't generally get lots of calls about stolen controlled substances,'' Capt. Carl Bergh said Monday. - When Officer S.W. Childers arrived at Collinsoworth's home Friday in this Idaho panhandle city, Collinsworth showed him a metal container where he'd stored the canister of marijuana. - ``While showing me this container, he explained that the suspect had failed to take his marijuana pipe,'' Childers wrote in his report. ``When I asked where it was, Harlan pulled it from the container.'' - Collinsworth, 20, was cited for possession of drug paraphernalia. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 11:06:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA27775; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA27715; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.131.102] (mg131-102.ricochet.net [204.179.131.102]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27007 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:05:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612051905.LAA27007@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: Fwd: MEME - dialectics of coolness Date: Thu, 5 Dec 96 11:11:36 -0800 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: "SFRaves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I don't normally do this, but I found this article relevent, and thought I'd share... deeje *********************************************************************** Subject: MEME - dialectics of coolness Sent: 12/2/96 5:47a From: FringeWare News Network, email@Fringeware.COM Reply-To: gary.chapman@mail.utexas.edu email@Fringeware.COM Sent from: Gary Chapman The following is my column which appears in The Los Angeles Times today, December 2, 1996. This should appear in other newspapers around the country in coming weeks. Please feel free to pass this around, but please retain the copyright notice. -- Gary Gary Chapman Director The 21st Century Project LBJ School of Public Affairs Drawer Y University Station University of Texas Austin, TX 78713 (512) 471-8326 (512) 471-1835 (fax) gary.chapman@mail.utexas.edu http://www.utexas.edu/lbj/21cp INNOVATION What Is Cool? Certainly Not a Campaign for It Trends: Although many companies would like to appear 'with it,' the true cutting edge emanates from the streets. By Gary Chapman Copyright 1996, The Los Angeles Times Microsoft Corporation has launched a new advertising and public relations campaign, and the mission, according to some people who work at the company's ad agency, Wieden & Kennedy, is a seemingly impossible one: to make Microsoft cool. "Cool" is the holy grail of the cyber-elite. It's the only word that conveys success, that draws crowds in virtual space and that indicates a company "gets it," in the cultural vernacular of the times. Cool is completely binary -- a company or a Web site is either cool or it's dead, cold. In cyberspace, "cool" and "hot" are the same thing. What is cool? Where does it come from? It comes from the streets. And more often than not, it comes from the streets of the working poor, especially from the vibrant culture of poor African American and Latino kids. It comes from the opposite pole of our society than the one Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates and his peers inhabit. Increasingly, immense multinational corporations are dependent, for their marketing, on the culture of young people who are the losers in the Information Age. At the recent Conference on Technology, Jobs and Community held at Cal State L.A., I spent some time talking with some young hip-hop artists, black, white and Latino. Carlos "MARE 139" Rodriguez, a former graffiti artist who grew up in the South Bronx, put it rather succinctly: "The 'soul' of this country has always been rooted in poverty." This is an old phenomenon. European bourgeois discovered the vitality of urban bohemian culture in the late 19th century, resulting in Puccini's great opera, "La Boheme." Harlem's renaissance in the 1920s was due to wealthy white patrons spending their time and money in black nightclubs. All the forms of that global cultural juggernaut, rock 'n' roll, were born in black juke houses in the South or in the ghettos of factory cities in the North. The predominant cultural expression of the inner city for the last 15 years, hip-hop, has been a brilliant marriage of street slang and technology. Hip-hop got its start in the 1970s when street DJs started manipulating records on turntables to produce rhythms and surprising collages of sounds and words. Hip-hop musicians have absorbed computers and turned them into bold music machines with sampling, synthesized bass and dense layers of sound and expression. Hip-hop swept the suburban world of white youth as much as it did the mean streets of the ghetto. Just as corporations swallowed up the music of the '60s to sell products to baby boomers, companies have sanitized hip-hop, punk and surfer culture to appeal to the young computer generation. Coca-Cola, perhaps the ultimate brand-name standard, has a home page ( http://www.cocacola.com) that features text of surfer "valley talk" in a jagged punk font. One page describes "a guy with a full-body tattoo covered with links" -- cyberpunk meets the soft drink business. Brett Webb runs a Web site called Art Crimes (http://www.graffiti.org), an international database of graffiti art. Webb says he got an offer from Levi Strauss to buy the entire site. It's long been an axiom of cool that whenever something cool shows up in commercial use it's no longer cool. What is obvious is that the great factories of style and coolness that are constantly churning out ideas in places like East L.A., Watts, Harlem, the South Bronx and elsewhere are always "pushing the envelope" of what mainstream white society will accept. When someone like Dennis Rodman starts showing up in TV commercials and People magazine, it's time to move on to something new. But the deepest irony is that the global information economy is pushing the working poor of all races to the wall. In previous eras, it was possible to have a vital working-class culture that survived on factory and service wages. That's no longer true. Despite the recent boost in the minimum wage, most of the working poor, tens of millions of people, are barely making ends meet. The fact that billionaires and millionaires are stealing or faking the culture and imagery of the ghetto is not lost on the people who live there. What was once a mostly happy and carefree hip-hop culture has already turned into something angry and dangerous -- gangsta rap, for example -- and now that's devolving into something even angrier and more confrontational. There are edgy fault lines between the artists of the ghetto and high-tech imitators of cool that could eventually register on the Richter scale. Advertising firms may want to make their clients cool, but they're playing with fire. Gary Chapman Is Director of the 21st Century Project at the University of Texas at Austin. He can be reached at gary.chapman@mail.utexas.edu. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- deeje cooley Journeyman Software -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 11:17:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA28937; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:17:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from saclink3.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA28902; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:17:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by saclink3.csus.edu (1.40.112.6/16.2) id AA203353420; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:17:00 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:16:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: alternative transportation to events To: Strawberry Flavored Stuff Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199612051402.FAA01875@iceberg.anchorage.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Hello, I was wondering if there are other alternatives to driving to > sfraves other than taking a taxi cab. Going to sfraves has been quite > difficult for me and my friends since we're not used to driving in SF and we > always get lost and going home is even more tedious since I live in the > north bay. It is certainly even more difficult if there is a map point clear across town from the location of the rave. If one relies on bus transportation, I could see that taking up another hour or hour and a half. I plan to give up my car when I move there, thank goodness I still know folks who have vehicles! Just my thought, sorry I could not give any solutions... Amy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 11:21:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA29420; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:21:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA29374; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:20:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv1.apple.com (A17-128-100-119.apple.com [17.128.100.119]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA43912; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:19:57 -0800 Received: from [17.221.20.215] (campma.apple.com [17.221.20.215]) by scv1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA77730; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:21:38 -0800 Message-Id: <199612051921.LAA77730@scv1.apple.com> Subject: re: CW- Promoting Safe Sex? Date: Thu, 5 Dec 96 11:20:52 -0800 x-sender: camp@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "Mark D. Camp" To: "Ray Vonie" cc: "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >You remember that time you were dancing to that certain beet at that one >party and it felf so dam good, This reminds me of a birthday present I bought a friend a while back. I was kinda broke at the time, but still wanted to get my friend a birthday present. So I went to my local Safeway, wondered into the Produce section, purchased a couple of beets, and gave them to him as "A Couple of Phat Beats" He said it was the best birthday gift he has ever received :) -M *______________*______________* !E.A.C! Astronout 408 SpaceLounge Electronic Artists Collective From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 11:26:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA00159; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:26:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA00149; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:26:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id LAA12682; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:26:28 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id LAA15662; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:26:23 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:26:22 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: re: CW- Promoting Safe Sex? To: "Mark D. Camp" cc: Ray Vonie , sfraves In-Reply-To: <199612051921.LAA77730@scv1.apple.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Mark D. Camp wrote: > >You remember that time you were dancing to that certain beet at that one > >party and it felf so dam good, > > This reminds me of a birthday present I bought a friend a while back. I > was kinda broke at the time, but still wanted to get my friend a birthday > present. So I went to my local Safeway, wondered into the Produce > section, purchased a couple of beets, and gave them to him as "A Couple > of Phat Beats" > > He said it was the best birthday gift he has ever received :) Thanks!! This story put a phat smile on my face!! =) Ran D.Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance Floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 11:29:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id LAA00379; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:29:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate.Cadence.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA00374; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.Cadence.COM (8.6.8/8.6.8) id KAA27671; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:52:50 -0800 Received: from cds9258.cadence.com(158.140.32.4) by mailgate.Cadence.COM via smap (V1.0mjr) id sma849811970.027668; Thu Dec 5 10:52:50 1996 Received: from [158.140.7.223] (mac527.cadence.com [158.140.7.223]) by cds9258.Cadence.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA07111; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:52:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:52:48 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: noah@cds9258 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Harmony , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: noah@cadence.com (Noah Ruiz) Subject: Re: I desperately need a ride 2 "Ascendence!!!" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I might be able to give you a ride. I drive a toyota pickup. So if your record crate could sit in the middle or on the floor I could take you. Whats the agenda for tonight? I live very close to you. I live right by Mitty high school. I met Mat last night at City Expresso. I believe thats your roommate, right? I also met Lee and Sharon (I think that was her name, she had the rather large tongue bell!) =) Anyways, let me know! Noah Ruiz At 6:47 AM 12/5/96, Harmony wrote: >Hello, > > I was wondering if anyone out there in SFR land was going to Ascendence >tomorrow (Thursday). I am spinning at 11(or 10pm, I don't remember) and >could really use a ride. I can get guest pass(es) if needed, as well as >pitch in for gas. If one of you could help me out I would be greatful!!! > > Oh yeah, and you all should come out to the "Ascendence" party on >Thursday. It should be hella fun! - (that's my BSP for the day) > > >Peace, love and harmony to all!!! > >Greg =) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 13:12:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA11564; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:12:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA11559; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:12:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA10878 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:08:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA849820727; Thu, 05 Dec 96 13:10:28 pst Date: Thu, 05 Dec 96 13:10:28 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9611058498.AA849820727@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Massive Promoters Might Not Be Satan After All Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Who are we to say that we know better than 15,000 people? If people will pay $25-$35 to spend an evening having safe sex with aliens, watching fire breathing whatnot and seeing two hundred DJ's and live acts in eight hours, let em. If Cool World had such a bad reputation, they would change their name to something new and continue to do business. I for one have met people who are excited about going, and I honestly hope they have fun. Not everybody enjoys weird parties with one blacklight on a beach and two DJ's playing trance all night long. We're all different. Vlad (Ray Vonie) has been very cool with me as he has been with most of us, if only in e-mail. He seems to understand what being nice and respectful is all about. Even when we're raking him over the coals he takes it in pretty good stride (except that spelling! Egad!). The parties (both FGE and Cool world) seem well organized considering their size and what a soft target they are for police, nobody runs out of toilet paper, and Joe and Joanna Average can have a damn good time there. It's probably less unwholesomely profitable than Disneyland or running a store that sells sportswear with a ridiculously high mark up, and Cool World tries to make people smile and laugh and remember what they did for New Year's for a change, rather than another boring evening at a house party with their alcoholic high school buddies. We should treat our massive promoters with some respect (remember PLUR, I think that might apply to everybody, even massive promoters)... they are the ones who are going to have lawyers and loopholes and pave the way for obtaining permits and maybe even prove to people that big parties can be fun, positive and profitable for promoters. Massive promoters probably will never have a monopoly on parties, because there is a hardcore group of people who will always like smaller parties of various styles. Am I going? No. It's not really my thing, but that shouldn't affect anybody else's decision. We're all big kids here. If you're going, bring a smile. Have a good time. If there's no vibe get to work on getting one going with the people around you. I've seen some amazing things and I'd love to read a review where some people had a great time and got things going for others. If you think Cool World is only in it for the money, don't pay to go. Duh, that's how to hurt a business after all... it's cool to be anti-profit, but it would be damn hard to find E, acid, blowpops, GHB, bodypaint, chai or any of the other consumables we embrace without considerable markup (like 300%+). Buy what you like, don't buy what you don't like. We keep talking about how positive and vibey we are and I open my mail to bitch bitch bitch every day. Talking shit about a party that hasn't even happened yet isn't about Love, Unity or Respect. It would be pretty nice to be able to make a living for me and some friends by throwing parties that allowed people to feel the way I did at the first party that worked for me. I mean, if only 1% of the people at Cool World end up "getting it", that's 150 more people that will be of definite benefit to the scene. How could that be bad? I haven't been in the scene for long at all, and maybe that undermines my opinion, but I think this raving stuff shouldn't be a treehouse club where you have to know the secret handshake to enjoy. There should be parties where everybody who wants to can go. Let em throw a party in peace. ***Now if they could just waste less paper with those big flyers next time.*** Thanks for your time, AndyW "Go to your gardens and you will see: It is the pleasure of the bee to take honey from the flower, and the pleasure of the flower to yield honey to the bee, and to both bee and flower the giving and receiving of pleasure is a need, and an ecstasy" -Khalil Gibran From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 13:14:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA11824; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:14:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA11748; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:14:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id NAA15042; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:13:34 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id NAA03041; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:13:20 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:13:19 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Mantra in San Francisco (BSP) To: sfraves , Is it Trance? <604@party.net>, "D. Steve White" , Jamie Pauline Smith , Steve Simitzis , Liza Seybold , Gregory Sandler , Martin Randall , Janelle Ornelas , Ethan Miller , me , Andrew Knudson , nick farwell , Eric , ephedrina , Allegra Chabay , REBECCA CARDENNIS , Jess Berkson , Know 1 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all! =) Happy Holidaze to ya all (Can you say sensory overload? I knew you could. :)! This friday (12/6/96) is Mantra in San Francisco; DJ's: Caban Anon Dutch Vajra and special guests! altar by Raven free chai by Nub Chai smartbar by Brian Braincandy lighting and visuals by Dionysus Dreams the Peace System and JK pushin' the waves blacklites by Blacklite Dave (Insight Lighting) 18 and up (sorry), $10, 415.646.0751 I also wanted to mention that the next Mantra (they are on the first fridays of every month) falls on Jan. 3rd. Not only is it the first Mantra of the year, but it is also my birthday!! =) The best birthday present would be to see everyone there!! strength and blessings, Ran D.Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance Floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 13:27:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA12870; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:27:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA12855; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:27:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA29448 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:27:10 -0800 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199612052127.NAA29448@trix.cisco.com> Subject: Massive Promoters Might Not Be Satan After All (fwd) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:27:07 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Who are we to say that we know better than 15,000 people? > > If people will pay $25-$35 to spend an evening having safe sex with > aliens, watching fire breathing whatnot and seeing two hundred DJ's > and live acts in eight hours, let em. etc.... > We keep talking about how positive and vibey we are and I open my mail > to bitch bitch bitch every day. Talking shit about a party that > hasn't even happened yet isn't about Love, Unity or Respect. It would > be pretty nice to be able to make a living for me and some friends by > throwing parties that allowed people to feel the way I did at the > first party that worked for me. I mean, if only 1% of the people at > Cool World end up "getting it", that's 150 more people that will be of > definite benefit to the scene. How could that be bad? > > I haven't been in the scene for long at all, and maybe that undermines > my opinion, but I think this raving stuff shouldn't be a treehouse > club where you have to know the secret handshake to enjoy. There > should be parties where everybody who wants to can go. > > Let em throw a party in peace. Exactly!! :) j From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 13:33:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA13549; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:33:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from osceola.gate.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA13473; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:33:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from navajo.gate.net (hardware@navajo.gate.net [199.227.0.15]) by osceola.gate.net (8.8.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA52370; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:31:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (hardware@localhost) by navajo.gate.net (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA88050; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:31:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: navajo.gate.net: hardware owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:31:04 -0500 (EST) From: DJ Hardware To: South East Rave List cc: mtn-raves@hyperreal.com, txraves@io.com, ne-raves@world.std.com, mw-raves@taz.hyperreal.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com, pb-cle-raves@hyperreal.com Subject: Promoters & Club DJ's Please Read: Bookings Wanted: Dec. / Jan / Feb Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello all Net Ravers, Promoters & DJ's, My Name is DJ Hardware and I'm looking for bookings for the months of December, January, & February and further. I'm The A&R director at Adrenalin Records in New York but I'm based in South Florida. I currently have 9 mixed CD's out in stores all across the world and have 3 more currently being pressed. The following are a list of the CD's: -Adrenalin Hardcore Rush Vol 1 -Adrenalin Hardcore Rush vol. 2 -Trip Hop Acid Phunk Vol 1 -Trip Hop Acid Phunk Vol 2 -Trip Hop Acid Phunk Vol 3 : The Hard Edition -Electro Phunk Vol 1 -Beat Generator Vol. 1 -Acid Warfare Vol. 1 -House Stompin' Vol. 1 and on the press: -DJ Hardware - "The Rhythm Chamber" -Adrenalin Trance Acid Experience 2 :In The Mix With DJ Hardware - Trip Hop Acid Phunk Vol 4: The Acid Edition I Also have a 12" currently out with my partner called The tweakers - "All Tweaked Out" On adrenalin Records. As you can see i play a variety of styles of music but my favorite styles to play are Hard trance and Gabber. i also love hard edged funky breaks. If you are intrested in booking me or know some one intrested in booking me at an event or party please have them E-mail me or they can call Adrenalin Records at (561) 495 - 9954 or (561) 495 - 3919. Thanks for your time and consideration! DJ HARDWARE:) A&R Director - Adrenalin Records P.S. : Some people in the past have said that I make royalities of these CD's, well, I don't. I just make money to mix them and thats all. Also I'm not tring to SPAM the NET, I'm just using the NET at a resource to find booking all over the place. If you don't like to read this just delete it... This is part of the rave culture.... Thanks Again!! Hardware:) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 13:36:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA13893; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from inet-smtp-gw-1.us.oracle.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA13854; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:36:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com by inet-smtp-gw-1.us.oracle.com with ESMTP (8.6.12/37.7) id NAA31751; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:35:48 -0800 Received: by mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com (8.7.5/37.9) id NAA26945; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:32:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612052132.NAA26945@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Date: 05 Dec 96 13:34:10 -0800 From: "LRITTING@US.ORACLE.COM" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR: A sobering poem MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.0.4.0.25) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Please circulate this and perhaps by the time Christmas comes, everyone will have read it. DEATH OF AN INNOCENT I went to a party, Mum, I remembered what you said. You told me not to drink, Mum, so I drank coke instead. I really felt proud inside, Mum, the way you said I would. I didn't drink and drive, Mum, even though the others said I should. I know I did the right thing, Mum, I know you are always right. Now the party is finally ending, Mum, as everyone is driving out of sight. As I got into my car, Mum, I knew I'd get home in one piece. Because of the way you raised me, so responsible and sweet. I started to drive away, Mum, but as I pulled out into the road, the other car didn't see me, Mum, and hit me like a load. As I lay there on the pavement, Mum, I hear the policeman say, the other guy is drunk, Mum, and now I'm the one who will pay. I'm lying here dying, Mum. I wish you'd get here soon. How could this happen to me, Mum? My life just burst like a balloon. There is blood all around me, Mum, and most of it is mine. I hear the paramedic say, Mum, I'll die in a short time. I just wanted to tell you, Mum, I swear I didn't drink. It was the others, Mum. The others didn't think. He was probably at the same party as I. The only difference is, he drank and I will die. Why do people drink, Mum? It can ruin your whole life. I'm feeling sharp pains now. Pains just like a knife. The guy who hit me is walking, Mum, and I don't think it's fair. I'm lying here dying and all he can do is stare. Tell my brother not to cry, Mum. Tell Daddy to be brave. And when I go to heaven, Mum, put "Daddy's Girl" on my grave Someone should have told him, Mum, not to drink and drive. If only they had told him, Mum, I would still be alive. My breath is getting shorter, Mum. I'm becoming very scared. Please don't cry for me, Mum. When I needed you, you were always there. I have one last question, Mum, before I say good bye. I didn't drink and drive, so why am I the one to die? ************************ Someone took the effort to write this poem. So please, forward this to as many people as you can. And see if we can get a chain going around the world that will make people understand that drinking and driving don't mix. TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE, so please forward this letter to as many people as you can. -Anonymous Thanks to Andy Kirk for this message Regards, Lucas Ritting ** Futuaris Non Irresus Ridobis ** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 13:53:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA15748; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:53:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from m3.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA15651; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:52:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hellosmile@juno.com) by m3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id QzX03545; Thu, 05 Dec 1996 16:49:42 EST To: rayvonie@ix.netcom.com Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Missing the point Message-ID: <19961205.134613.3206.1.hellosmile@juno.com> References: <199612050328.TAA23303@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2,9-10,36-43 From: hellosmile@juno.com (Victoria L Vasilakos) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 16:49:42 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I wrote something about CW parties the other day and you responded to me as if I was saying that only ravers can attend raves. Well if you knew how to read you would of read that I said..... I don't want you to think that I'm saying that only ravers can attend raves. Because I believe that anyone can attend a rave just as long as they don't ruin the vibe and they spread love. Ravers would never excluded anyone because of who or what they are. We are always open to new things and new people. But not if they are going to affect us. But all we ask is if you do attend a rave and know nothing of the subject just respect us and those who surround us and keep the vibe alive. The reason I take this so personally is because a RAVE is not just something to do on the weekends or just to be cool. A RAVE is a way of my life, a way I choose to live. It is a part of me so are all of you beautiful people who rave out there. Everytime I go to a RAVE i go decked out in my biggest bell bottem plaid pants or my homade clothes and my clunky platform shoes. I smear my eyelids with glitter and stickers aglore. I stuff the blue teddy bear back pack (My friend Paul made) with stickers, candy, glowsticks, and anything eles I can imagin to give away to all the beautiful Ravers. I don't know about anyone eles but when I'm at a rave and I see all the wonderful people having fun and smiling and spreading love and expressing themselves through dance. It makes me feel so good about who I am and what I do. I love raving and I never want to stop. THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE who attend CW parties are there just to be cool or to do something that weekend. They ruin the vibe and don't spread love, they have a bad atitude about the whole situation. This to a raver is dissapointing to see this, and brings them down. I had a friend who drove from Sac. to go to Mega Buzz and paid $25 and left a 1:00 because they were not having a good time. A rave is a place where PEOPLE or RAVERS go to get away from the cruelness of the outside world. And be able to meet new people and enjoy themselves without having to worry about what others think or feel towards them because at raves everyone loves one another. And when a raver goes to a rave to do this and feel good about themselves and to spread love, and they see the vibe being ruin, and the scene being disrespected or TAKEN FOR GRANTED. This is a wound in the heart and we don't take it lightly. Because if you are hurting the scene you are also hurting apart of all ravers. Thank you I hope you don't take any offense. may love and great things come to you all PLUR Smile always Smile I love :) Never frown Love always Victoria :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 13:59:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id NAA16676; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:59:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA16652; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:59:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA00361; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:55:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:55:45 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Ward To: "LRITTING@US.ORACLE.COM" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: A sobering poem In-Reply-To: <199612052132.NAA26945@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi. I know the message of this poem is critical, but it has been posted to this list at least 3 times in the past few months. I'm sure it's been circulated three times around the world by now. :) -alex On 5 Dec 1996, LRITTING@US.ORACLE.COM wrote: > > Please circulate this and perhaps by the time Christmas comes, everyone > will have read it. > > DEATH OF AN INNOCENT > > I went to a party, Mum, I remembered what you said. > You told me not to drink, Mum, so I drank coke instead. > I really felt proud inside, Mum, the way you said I would. > I didn't drink and drive, Mum, even though the others said I should. > > I know I did the right thing, Mum, I know you are always right. > Now the party is finally ending, Mum, as everyone is driving out of sight. > As I got into my car, Mum, I knew I'd get home in one piece. > Because of the way you raised me, so responsible and sweet. > > I started to drive away, Mum, but as I pulled out into the road, > the other car didn't see me, Mum, and hit me like a load. > As I lay there on the pavement, Mum, I hear the policeman say, > the other guy is drunk, Mum, and now I'm the one who will pay. > > I'm lying here dying, Mum. I wish you'd get here soon. > How could this happen to me, Mum? My life just burst like a balloon. > There is blood all around me, Mum, and most of it is mine. > I hear the paramedic say, Mum, I'll die in a short time. > > I just wanted to tell you, Mum, I swear I didn't drink. > It was the others, Mum. The others didn't think. > He was probably at the same party as I. > The only difference is, he drank and I will die. > > Why do people drink, Mum? It can ruin your whole life. > I'm feeling sharp pains now. Pains just like a knife. > The guy who hit me is walking, Mum, and I don't think it's fair. > I'm lying here dying and all he can do is stare. > > Tell my brother not to cry, Mum. Tell Daddy to be brave. > And when I go to heaven, Mum, put "Daddy's Girl" on my grave > Someone should have told him, Mum, not to drink and drive. > If only they had told him, Mum, I would still be alive. > > My breath is getting shorter, Mum. I'm becoming very scared. > Please don't cry for me, Mum. When I needed you, you were always there. > I have one last question, Mum, before I say good bye. > I didn't drink and drive, so why am I the one to die? > > ************************ > Someone took the effort to write this poem. > > So please, forward this to as many people as you can. And see if we can get > a chain going around the world that will make people understand that > drinking and driving don't mix. > > TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE, so please forward this letter to as many > people as you can. > -Anonymous > > Thanks to Andy Kirk for this message > > > Regards, > > Lucas Ritting > > ** Futuaris Non Irresus Ridobis ** > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 14:11:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA17958; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:11:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from m3.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA17942; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:11:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hellosmile@juno.com) by m3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id RGY03545; Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:05:43 EST To: pablin@buckler.com Cc: larryc@netcom.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Feeling Safe =>=>=> Exclusivity =>=>=> Elitism Message-ID: <19961205.140211.3206.2.hellosmile@juno.com> References: <1.5.4.32.19961205010051.006cec00@pacbell.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 23-24 From: hellosmile@juno.com (Victoria L Vasilakos) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:05:43 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I agree. AT Mega Buzz a CW party my friend put her bag on the ground for a second and turned to say hi to someone and the turned back around and her bag was gone. Just like that. She immediatly found us and told us what happened while sobbing on my shoulder. We rushed to the front the main entrance where all the CW people were. We told them what had happened and got no help what so ever. I myself asked the rent a cop for his flash light and had to shove and yell and threat my way back into the party. After they had known what I was doing they wanted me to pay to re enter the party. Even though my friends bag was still in there. Finally after some arguing with the gut he let me in. While my friend watched people as they left to see if her bag was near. I then Searched each room up and down and all around for the bag. Still we haven't got any help from the CW people. From about 2:30 am to about 5:00 am I searched for the bag, each room over and over again. Till finally I found the bag. I was so relived. I ran as fast as I could to return the bag to my friend. Now I want you all to know that her car keys were in the bag. We would have no ride home If we didn't find the bag. But CW people still didn't care. Finally after my friend had been harrassed by the CW people se searched her bag to see what was missing she had $100 stolen from her. Very dissapointed and rudely upset we drove home after paying $25. This proves that you don't give a dam about the party or people, only the money. If this were at any other party ecspcially HARMONY this would of never happened and if it did we would get more help. But most likley it wouldn't . love victoria From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 14:12:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA18071; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:12:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA18057; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:12:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:10:16 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA09949; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:10:16 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hellosmile@juno.com (Victoria L Vasilakos) From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: Re: Missing the point Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Now that was a good post and said it all. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 14:20:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA18669; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:20:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from m3.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA18650; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:20:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hellosmile@juno.com) by m3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id RQV03545; Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:19:17 EST To: tymat@iceberg.anchorage.net Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: alternative transportation to events Message-ID: <19961205.141541.3206.4.hellosmile@juno.com> References: <199612051402.FAA01875@iceberg.anchorage.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1 From: hellosmile@juno.com (Victoria L Vasilakos) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:19:17 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I would give you a ride if I had a car :) Love Victoria From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 14:30:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA19536; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:30:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from m3.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA19525; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:30:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hellosmile@juno.com) by m3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id RWM03545; Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:28:17 EST To: GVT1@aol.com Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: In search of promoters Message-ID: <19961205.142444.3206.5.hellosmile@juno.com> References: <961205021221_1085593910@emout16.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-4 From: hellosmile@juno.com (Victoria L Vasilakos) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:28:17 EST Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi I've promotted for numerous Raves Mostly for Ghost Tribe, I promotted for Natural,Flux, Thursdays, Tribal Funk, Charity, Eon, 6 in da moring, But mainly Ghost Tribe. If you need help email me back and we can talk. LOve Victoria From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 14:36:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA20127; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:36:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA20119; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:36:32 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI02@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id RAA22870; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:36:26 -0500 Received: from by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB29319; Thu, 5 Dec 96 14:36:24 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 2A74E670; Thu, 5 Dec 96 14:36:23 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:31:17 -0800 Message-Id: <2A74E670.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: rumors about new alternate transportation To: SoopaFreshRavers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk rumor has it that by the year 2023, there will be an elaborate WATERSLIDE system that will run right along the existing freeway systems. imagine! -waterslide to work! -waterslide to your next rave! -come to work naked with a good excuse! relax as you slide on in to your next event! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 14:46:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA20929; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:46:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA20916; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:46:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:43:42 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA10323; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:43:42 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: nrr...Walt Disneys B-Day Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Today DEC 5th is the birthday of Walt Disney...just thought I'd tell everyone. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 14:54:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id OAA21847; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:54:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from guilder.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA21838; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:54:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by guilder.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.8.1) id OAA05939; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:53:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:53:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612052253.OAA05939@guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Rick Riffle Subject: ARGON - change of plans Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ARGON lost thier "Secured space." They got a new one, but it won't have an ambient room so RE: won't be playing live. Have a nice weeked. Rick From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 15:04:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA22583; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:04:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from porsche.autobahn.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA22544; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:04:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.79.223.101] (dialup1-berkeley.autobahn.org [206.79.223.101]) by porsche.autobahn.org (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA30754 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:04:28 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:13:52 +0000 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: nephesch@autobahn.org (Jocelyn Agloro) Subject: Aliens Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, humans are actually a primitave life form on earth, now that the >aliens are here!! ;) > >Amy > In response to your comment on aliens.. Haven't they been here always influencing our lives through religion. What I mean is who were the Gods and Godessess anyways? And what about the Jehovah who rescued the Israelites from the land of Egypt? And if they are here and if they have been here for some time, they are not really aliens or extra-terrestrials are they? The word alien is almost another discriminating word that we humans have created to seperate us from everything else. If the goal is to come together back into some sense of unity and oneness with everthing than we have to include the cosmos and everything in it or else we will always be seperate from something. > ******* > ** ** > * * > * * > * oOOo oOOo * > * oOOo oOOo * > E.B.E.s * oo oo * Are Here Now > * * > * . . * > * ___ * > * * > * * * > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 15:14:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA23715; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:14:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA23704; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA03048 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:13:32 -0800 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199612052313.PAA03048@trix.cisco.com> Subject: Re:Aliens To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:13:32 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Well, humans are actually a primitave life form on earth, now that the > >aliens are here!! ;) > > > >Amy > > > In response to your comment on aliens.. Haven't they been here always > influencing our lives through religion. What I mean is who were the Gods > and Godessess anyways? And what about the Jehovah who rescued the > Israelites from the land of Egypt? Actually I always thought they were vampires. \ O \> ^ | O /> / :) j From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 15:19:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA24094; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:19:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from viking.dvc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA24084; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:19:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by viking.dvc.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0vVn9W-000cL1C; Thu, 5 Dec 96 15:24 PST Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:24:24 -0800 (PST) From: 96fa295 <96fa295@dvc.edu> To: knucklehead cc: Victoria L Vasilakos , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Missing the point In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, knucklehead wrote: > Now that was a good post and said it all. > > > Tim (knucklehead) I definitely agree; now why can't we have more posts like these? (hint hint people!) > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 15:24:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA24591; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:24:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from porsche.autobahn.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA24566; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:24:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.79.223.101] (dialup1-berkeley.autobahn.org [206.79.223.101]) by porsche.autobahn.org (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA31218 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:24:27 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:33:51 +0000 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: nephesch@autobahn.org (Jocelyn) Subject: LSD Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Just out of curiosity did you or anyone find any information on the CIA's use of LSD and psilocybin mushrooms for mind control experiments? Apparently Timothy Leary got his first knowledge of LSD by volunteering for these types of experiments. >Gioni Pasquinelli wrote: >> >> Last year I did a research paper on LSD and was surprised to find a couple >> recent articles about it. Of course most of the experiments are on rats >> and such much still very interesting work is being done with illegal drugs. >> >> You just have to look for them. There are a lot of neat, IMHO, science >> journals out there, you just need the time to read them all and you'll run >> across some very interesting stuff, amidst some other pretty boring stuff. > >the place where i work (graphic design/print/copy place) made copies of >the HUGE stack of news/magazine articles & research on LSD... i managed >to get my hands on a copy. my guess is that it's about 500 or so pages >of photocopied and downloaded articles. interesting reading... > >pd From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 15:29:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA24950; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:29:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA24944; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:29:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:26:49 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA11248; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:26:49 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: Who's going to Ascendence Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Just wondering who is going to Ascendence...I was thinking about it, but 5am comes really quick and if I go, that means staying up all day at work and then going to bed when I get home. I might just miss going out Friday night. Wishing this was Star Trek and we had Transporters. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 15:35:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA25584; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:35:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom6.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA25577; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:35:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mayer@localhost) by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id PAA11177; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:34:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199612052334.PAA11177@netcom6.netcom.com> To: "San FranDisco Ravers List" Subject: FUCK RACISM (was Re: nrr...Walt Disneys B-Day) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Dec 96 14:43:42 PST." Date: Thu, 05 Dec 96 15:34:58 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Today DEC 5th is the birthday of Walt Disney...just thought > I'd tell everyone. Great! Let's celebrate the birthday of a well-known racist and anti-semite. As far as I'm concerned, the fucking bastard can rot in hell. W/r/t Disney's works, yes, there's some great Disney art, but that was produced by talented artists who labored in relative poverty and anonimity, while Disney profited off their sweat and took all the credit. Then he used all his money and power to incorporate anti-black and anti-semitic sentiments into the Disney Corporation, while turning in every jew he didn't like to the McCarthy witch hunts as a "communist sympathizer." Such a sweet and loving man, he! What next, an NRR post celebrating David Duke's birthday? Hey, what about Jerry Falwell, he's a man who righteously defends PLUR! PS: If I see one more PLUR-spouter talking about how HOMIES shouldn't be at raves, the stark fist of removal is going to plunge so far up your ass you'll need a speculum to brush your teeth. What next, you're going to say that KAIKS or WOPS or SPICS can't be at raves! I'm getting the feeling that when anybody mentions PLUR on this list, they might as well stick a stamp on their forehead saying kick me, I'm an ignorant racist doofus. Why don't you do us all a favor and shove yer glowstick where the sun don't shine to enlighten yourself. We don't even need to worry ourselves with racist code-words like "gangsta" when you got people unabashedly dissing "HOMIES" as being un-ravey. If "HOMIES" are unravey, then I certainly don't want to be a raver. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == == When yer swimming in a creek and an eel bites yer cheek, that's a moray!== =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 15:37:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA25914; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:37:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA25871; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:37:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA18676 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:34:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:34:34 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Ward To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: audio impact @ voodoo Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, it was a strange nite. Voodoo lounge was having some leak-problems, so there was a bucket in the middle of the dance floor. Sound was off and on, too. Regardless, I had a blast hearing Hannibal Selecta and Tomas play some booming deep tunes. Thad played a short set around 12:30, but was having technical difficulties with one of the decks. The hi-point for me was when he dropped his own dubplate, and though the sound made it seem a bit muddled, it was great. There's a bunch of dj's making their own tracks and paying 30-40 dollars to get them pressed themselves (1 copy). This is exactly what we need to help create our own grass-roots jungle scene in the states. -peace- alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 15:49:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA26996; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:49:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA26910; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:49:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:46:47 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA11628; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:46:47 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Niels P. Mayer" From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: Re: FUCK RACISM (was Re: nrr...Walt Disneys B-Day) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk What the fuck!!!! Don't jump on my ass about that. I fucking didn't know..call me fucking stupid. I thought people like the Disney movies and mentioned it. If thought for a fucking minute it would cause a fucking problem I would have never mentioned it. If you didn't want to start reading post about all the shit again then why the fuck didn't you just post to me and not publicly I'M SORRY IF I LIKE DISNEY MOVIES AND CARTOON. FUCK IF I KNEW HE WAS RACIST, SHOT ME!!! This is sick and I'm off the fucking list! Pissed off Tim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 15:49:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA27015; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:49:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from boris.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA26953; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:49:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by boris.ucdavis.edu (8.8.3/UCD3.7.3) id PAA06246; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:49:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:49:01 -0800 (PST) From: -=Joe=- X-Sender: ez041655@boris.ucdavis.edu To: "Thompson. Jim" cc: Randy C Cone , sfraves - send mail to list Subject: Re: NRR: Humans & other animals - Kill your step-children! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Here we go; it's biological evolution on the line, so I gotta' get involved... (WARNING: COMPLETELY NRR!! AND LONG!!) On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Thompson. Jim wrote: > > I believe the fact that many of us are concerned about this > > "destructive impact" is further evidence that we have reached a higher > > level of evolution. What other animals (or plants!) worry about protecting > > the environment, or whether they may be causing other species to become > > extinct? > > > > >> What other creatures HAVE to worry due to their own actions? > > > > How much do you know about animals? > > How about apes that kill their "stepchildren" when they take over > another apes > female? In fact, humans behave the same way? There was an > article in Science that examined child abuse. It turns out that a > LARGE portion of child abuse if from step-parents (origins of > "evil stepmothers" in Fairy Tales?). Step-parents (according > to this article were 60-70 TIMES more likely to abuse their > non-biological children than parents their own biological > off-spring...... > > How about hyena cubs that kill their own siblings? > Animals (and, yes, humans) that attack step-children/cubs/what-have-you, do so because, unfortunately, this means that if/when they actually have their own children with their mate, then their own children (and hence their own genetic pool) will receive that much more attention and sustinence from both parents (i.e. breast milk in primates), than they would if the step-children were still in the picture. No, the animals don't sit around and actually *think* this (because evolution doesn't *think*, it *responds*); it's just that animals (in the wild) that engage in this behavior tend to have more of their own genes survive through their progeny than animals that don't. Why else would the trait be present? Now this may seem silly in such a modern society of convenience as ours, where hunger (at least in the "first"-world) and predation are considerably less significant than they were when we were living in the wild. But if you consider a situation where food is scarce, and malnutrition can lead to a host of fatal diseases, every head takes up that much more food that your own progeny could use. Yes, I personally find it sick, twisted, and terribly depressing, but evolution doesn't care about ethics. Ethics are human notions. Evolution is but a process, where the most successful make more copies of themselves. (I believe that's why we as humans developed civilization in the first place, in hopes of staving off some of the harshness of this "unethical" pure natural selection.) I believe that this human step-child abuse phenomenon is a hazy vestigial aftereffect of this trend in our primal evolution, but that is no longer necessary or even fit in a modern society, due to the protection and provisions civilization allows for (not to mention, it's mean!). Unfortunately, evolution is *very* slow (given our generation time, on the order of millions or at the very least tens of thousands of years), and there has not been sufficient time to weed out the trait completely. But 4000 years is a fairly good chunk of time (i.e. since the beginnings of civilization, more or less), and these tendencies undoubtedly have been slowly disappearing as the years progress (since there is really no selective pressure for them at all anymore). Most importantly, though, (to end on a brighter note), fortunately, our minds, as humans, are sufficiently advanced that many of us can control our instincts (to some degree). So anytime we feel an emotion, we don't necessarily act whole-heartedly on it, without at least considering the consequences, aftermath, etc. Well, I've rambled on enough. ;) I'd love comments, etc. plur- Joe ____________________________________________________________________________ _/oe /-/elgeson: jphelgeson@ucdavis.edu, http://lm.ucdavis.edu/SA/jphelgeson ============================================================================ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 15:50:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA27103; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:50:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA27014; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:49:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from greg (sjx-ca30-03.ix.netcom.com [204.31.235.163]) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA26126 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:49:11 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961205153054.006e40ec@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: ascend@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 15:30:57 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Harmony Subject: "Ascendence!!!" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This THURSDAY (DEC 5th) and every Thursday after is >>>ASCENDENCE<<< This Week: ASTRAL MATRIX - LIVE! GREG of Harmony KAMIA Located at Palookavile. 1133 Pacific Ave - Downtown Santa Cruz info: 408.429.2330 You guys should come and check this one out! (And by the way, I got a ride!!!) See ya there! Peace, love and harmony to all!!! Greg =) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 15:52:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA27287; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA27283; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:52:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.253.162.77] (wayne.eff.org [204.253.162.77]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA11840 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:52:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199612052132.NAA26945@mailsun3-fddi.us.oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:34:24 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Crusty was just a start" Subject: Re: NRR: A sobering poem Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 1:34 PM -0800 12/5/96, LRITTING@US.ORACLE.COM wrote: > >Please circulate this and perhaps by the time Christmas comes, everyone >will have read it. > > DEATH OF AN INNOCENT > >I went to a party, Mum, I remembered what you said. >You told me not to drink, Mum, so I drank coke instead. >I really felt proud inside, Mum, the way you said I would. >I didn't drink and drive, Mum, even though the others said I should. What-ever. How about "Email that Spammed the Innocents" What next, the Neiman-Marcus cookie recipe? How about little dying Jimmy and his mountain of postcards? No, I want to see the AOL text message virus posting again! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 15:57:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id PAA27760; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:57:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA27750; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:57:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:54:47 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA11693; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:54:47 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: I'm out of here!! Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Sorry to all the friends for saying what I did. Neils should have never went off on me like that. And for that I'm unsubbing. I never preach PLUR, but I do try to follow it and try to keep objective on here. But for someone to do what he did was uncalled for and I'm fully pissed and it take ALOT to get me pissed off. You know how to reach me for those that care. Later and have fun on this list. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 16:01:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA28206; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:01:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from marble.litc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA28199; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:01:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com (arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.2.84]) by marble.litc.lockheed.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA07763 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:00:46 -0700 (MST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBE2C5.7DFBA8A0@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:00:53 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: Is EVERYONE on this List Suffering from Some Hormonal Imbalance? Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:00:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Maybe it the weather.... I think everyone on this list needs to go home, have a nice cup of tea and watch "Yellow Submarine". All you need is LOVE! jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 16:08:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA28934; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:08:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA28914; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:08:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:05:50 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA11897; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:05:50 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: Re: FUCK RACISM (was Re: nrr...Walt Disneys B-Day) Cc: mayer@netcom.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk What the fuck!!!! Don't jump on my ass about that. I fucking didn't know..call me fucking stupid. I thought people like the Disney movies and mentioned it. If thought for a fucking minute it would cause a fucking problem I would have never mentioned it. If you didn't want to start reading post about all the shit again then why the fuck didn't you just post to me and not publicly I'M SORRY IF I LIKE DISNEY MOVIES AND CARTOON. FUCK IF I KNEW HE WAS RACIST, SHOT ME!!! This is sick and I'm off the fucking list! Pissed off Tim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 16:11:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA29377; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:11:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA29330; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:11:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BBE2C7.9EAD08D0@misnt1.rely.com>; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:16:07 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: RE: I'm out of here!! Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:15:53 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Umm, like, what happened??? >---------- >From: knucklehead@club.net >Subject: I'm out of here!! > >Sorry to all the friends for saying what I did. Neils should have never >went off on me like that. And for that I'm unsubbing. I never preach PLUR, >but I do try to follow it and try to keep objective on here. But for >someone to do what he did was uncalled for and I'm fully pissed and it take >ALOT to get me pissed off. > > >You know how to reach me for those that care. > >Later and have fun on this list. > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 16:20:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA00250; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:20:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from marble.litc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA00205; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:20:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com (arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.2.84]) by marble.litc.lockheed.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA11219 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:19:47 -0700 (MST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBE2C8.266B3F80@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:19:54 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: When I Look into Your Eyes, Your Love is There for Me Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:18:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk When I look into your eyes, your love is there for me And the more I go inside, the more there is to see It's all too much for me to take The love that's shining all around you Everywhere, it's what you make For us to take, it's all too much Floating down the stream of time, of life to life with me Makes no difference where you are or where you'd like to be It's all too much for me to take The love that's shining all around here All the world's a birthday cake, So take a piece but not too much Set me on a silver sun, for I know that I'm free Show me that I'm everywhere, and get me home for tea It's all to much for me to see A love that's shining all around here The more I am, the less I know And what I do is all too much It's all too much for me to take The love that's shining all around you Everywhere, it's what you make For us to take, it's all too much It's too much.....It's too much Too much too much too much (fade to end) -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Beatles from Yellow Submarine Too Much It's all too much, It's all too much jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 16:36:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA01634; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:36:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA01607; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:36:08 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI02@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id TAA29650; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:36:01 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03760; Thu, 5 Dec 96 16:35:59 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 2A76A7D0; Thu, 5 Dec 96 16:36:13 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:31:16 -0800 Message-Id: <2A76A7D0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: for those who hate negative posts, READ ME, don't eat me To: Birthday Boys and Girls Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Fortunately I have reconfigured my positronic matrix to look through the posts on sfravers (I've met some absolutely WONDERFUL people on this list, too :) and decide if the post has a negative connotation or is just plain too negative my brain now goes "ehh. too negative. NEXT." y'all need to take a lesson from the farmer. life is like a farm. we'll get to that tomorrwo. anyway, do you want to know how to program your positronic matrix (yes, you all have one, Mr. Data is not that out of the ordinary) yeah, i'll bet you would. email me privately if you want to know the REAL secret. talk to you tomorrow, happy clan! deepfog =================== "Captain, the breakdancers have taken over 3/4 of the ship and then they just stopped!" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 16:38:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA01963; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:38:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA01951; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:38:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from natasha.coolware.com (annex23.usfca.edu [138.202.192.123]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA07257 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:31:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961206003023.006e0090@best.com> X-Sender: mdpkl@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 16:30:23 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" Subject: nrr: hi! Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hello everyone- this post is totally non rave related (flame me now, if you wish!) sometimes i like disney films (flame me now, if you wish!) sometimes i take drugs at raves (flame me now, if you wish!) sometimes i go sober to raves (flame me now, if you wish!) sometimes i may make a snap judgement about someone's character by their exterior appearance (flame me now, if you wish!) sometimes i ignore their appearance, and talk to them (flame me now, if you wish!) so, if you're still reading this and you haven't flamed me yet, I love you! have a wonderful day! love- matt matthew d. p. k. lanier professional hugger and empath 415-752-3218 E-mail mailto:mdpkl@best.com pager mailto:lanima00@usfca.edu (up to 240 characters) _______ / \ / o o \ | ^ | | | ___ \ \_/ / ___ __(___\ \__ __/ /___)__ (______ \________\ /_________/ ______) (_______ ____________________ _______) (______ / \ ______) (_____/ \_____) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 16:40:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA02157; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA02113; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:40:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id QAA17964; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:38:30 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id QAA12352; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:38:29 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:38:29 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Missing the point To: 96fa295 <96fa295@dvc.edu> cc: knucklehead , Victoria L Vasilakos , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, 96fa295 wrote: > > > On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, knucklehead wrote: > > > Now that was a good post and said it all. > > > > > > Tim (knucklehead) > > I definitely agree; now why can't we have more posts like these? > (hint hint people!) > Well you can start by posting some yourself! =) Ran D.Dream From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 16:46:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA03066; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:46:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA03029; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:45:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:45:57 -0800 (PST) From: Sami Khoury To: Adam Guevara cc: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: RE: I'm out of here!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Adam Guevara wrote: > Umm, like, what happened??? Zoinks, Scoob, read the archives: http://www.hyperreal.com/raves/sf/archives/sfr.9612 :) Sami From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 16:47:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA03240; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:47:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from viking.dvc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA03194; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:47:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by viking.dvc.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0vVoX8-000cJiC; Thu, 5 Dec 96 16:52 PST Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:52:53 -0800 (PST) From: 96fa295 <96fa295@dvc.edu> To: Adam Guevara cc: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: RE: I'm out of here!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Adam Guevara wrote: > Umm, like, what happened??? > Is he unsubscribing from the list? > >---------- > >From: knucklehead@club.net > >Subject: I'm out of here!! > > > >Sorry to all the friends for saying what I did. Neils should have never > >went off on me like that. And for that I'm unsubbing. I never preach PLUR, > >but I do try to follow it and try to keep objective on here. But for > >someone to do what he did was uncalled for and I'm fully pissed and it take > >ALOT to get me pissed off. > > > > > >You know how to reach me for those that care. > > > >Later and have fun on this list. > > > > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 16:47:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA03260; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:47:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA03222; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:47:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id QAA20436; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:47:32 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id QAA13741; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:47:32 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:47:32 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: I'm out of here!! To: knucklehead cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, knucklehead wrote: > Sorry to all the friends for saying what I did. Neils should have never > went off on me like that. And for that I'm unsubbing. I never preach PLUR, > but I do try to follow it and try to keep objective on here. But for > someone to do what he did was uncalled for and I'm fully pissed and it take > ALOT to get me pissed off. > > > You know how to reach me for those that care. > > Later and have fun on this list. Well I'll miss you Tim!! =( Yea, Neil was way out of line. He could have shared info with us about Walt without being just plain nasty about it. As a result anything he has to say I'm not going to want to listen to. Tim has been one of the most generous and giving, loving people I have ever run into, and has done so much (selflessly) for our scene. I love Tim and wish there were a milliion more of him around. Tim did not deserve what Neil threw his way and I feel he owes Tim an apology. I don't know what is eating at Neil but I hope he gets over it. I almost wonder if that was really Neil who posted? Ran D.Dream From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 16:52:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id QAA03804; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:52:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA03800; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:52:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from si.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id QAA21904; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:52:37 -0800 Received: by si.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id QAA11513; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:52:36 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:52:36 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: When I Look into Your Eyes, Your Love is There for Me To: "Thompson. Jim" cc: sfraves - send mail to list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Tanks Jim!! =) Ran D.Dreams (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ (~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~) ) DIONYSUS DREAMS ( ( ) ) :Live, Multi-Media Stage Production: ( ( Specialising in Ambient Rooms and Slide & Light shows for Dance Floors. ) ) Also can provide live ambient music with movement and dramatic elements. ( ( Please call or write for a detailed equipment list and prices. ) ) We are based in Santa Cruz, California, USA. ( ( ) ) ( ( (408)427-1666 randream@cats.ucsc.edu ) )~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~( From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 17:07:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA05404; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:07:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA05389; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:06:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from 204.30.72.89 (sdx-ca8-25.ix.netcom.com [204.30.72.89]) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA19463; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:06:24 -0800 Message-ID: <32A6CBA8.3F2D@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 06:18:53 -0700 From: CT Reply-To: ctd-zine@ix.netcom.com Organization: CT D-Zine X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, knucklehead@club.net, mhg@cats.ucsc.edu Subject: Something Postive for a Change!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Since there seems to be a bunch of new people on the list, and several who seem to be bickering...I think it's about time to bust out with another set of SFRaves laminates! I'll be printing up a small batch to distribute at The Gathering on Dec. 21st. They'll be free...It's Christmas!! Sometimes people can come off so intimidating and mean over email, but in person I know you are all a bunch of crazy-silly-wacky and very PLURY people. Like Troy Sheets said to me once, "I've never met a net-raver I didn't like". So come find me there, I'll post a description a day or so before. As far as the current state of the list, I am extremely heartbroken. This list has done so much for so many people's lives...it's brought so many of us together. You are all my closest friends, and it hurts me to see my family fight like this. This is ridiculous!! I love you guys!! Why else would I drive 9 hours every other week so I can see all of you??!?!?? So let's stop it, NOW!! OKAY!?!? Here's a digital hug for all of you that I originally received from Sarvi long ago. Please forward it to anyone on the list that you would like to apologize or give you love to: EVERYONE NEEDS A HUG!!!!! ___ ____ ___ ____( \ .-' `-. / )____ (____ \_____ / (O O) \ _____/ ____) (____ `-----( ) )-----' ____) (____ _____________\ .____. /_____________ ____) (______/ `-.____.-' \______) *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *hug* *hug* *hug* *hug* *hug* *hug* *Hug**Hug**Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug**Hug**Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug**Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* much love and energy, Terry ______ ________ / ___/ /__ __/ / /__ / / /_____/ /__/ D-Zine "New Super Mega Zord Website Under Construction!" http://www.cyborganic.com/people/ctdzine --------------------------------------------- 3 list abyss ------>> ctd-zine@ix.netcom.com 100% secured ------>> ctdzine@cyborganic.net --------------------------------------------- "Freaky People happens December 13th!!!" P.S. Please send me for your energy for a very important interview I have with a design studio tomorrow...thanks.... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 17:12:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA05787; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:12:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA05771; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:12:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from natasha.coolware.com (annex23.usfca.edu [138.202.192.123]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA11568; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:07:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961206010631.006d25b8@best.com> X-Sender: mdpkl@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:06:31 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" Subject: a demonstration of support for tim Cc: knucklehead@club.net, mayer@netcom.com Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hello all- for the sfraves scene, tim has: 1)selflessly organized multiple barbeques 2)offered his cooking services/equipment to any happy raver who wishes to use it 3)been an active member of the sfraves community for quite a while before many of us were even thinking or raving 4)stood out in the rain so that ravers could come and eat, dance, and enjoy each other at pt. malate. so, let it be heard that: tim is a cool guy. tim is a key member of the sfraves community. give the boy some respect. love- matt l matthew d. p. k. lanier professional hugger and empath 415-752-3218 E-mail mailto:mdpkl@best.com pager mailto:lanima00@usfca.edu (up to 240 characters) _______ / \ / o o \ | ^ | | | ___ \ \_/ / ___ __(___\ \__ __/ /___)__ (______ \________\ /_________/ ______) (_______ ____________________ _______) (______ / \ ______) (_____/ \_____) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 17:19:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA06251; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:19:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from melvax.sonoma.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA06237; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from plastikdreams.sonoma.edu (SA-6EN38.sonoma.edu) by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.0-7 #8366) id <01ICNQ7KDG8W9PO3X7@SONOMA.EDU>; Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:18:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:19:43 +0000 From: Jonas Hanning Subject: Re: I'm out of here!! X-Sender: hanning@sonoma.edu To: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-id: <3.0.32.19961205171942.006f6474@sonoma.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) said: >Sorry to all the friends for saying what I did. Neils should have never >went off on me like that. And for that I'm unsubbing. I never preach PLUR, >but I do try to follow it and try to keep objective on here. But for >someone to do what he did was uncalled for and I'm fully pissed and it take >ALOT to get me pissed off. Don't leave us. This list has turned into something it was never intended to be, a NON-RAVE RELATED waste of bandwidth. You, knucklehead, are one of the people that I like reading posts from. Instead of leaving, please stay and help us bring back the good old days when the posts on this list were about rave and music, not shitty poems and our theories on the existence of= aliens. reespect, jonas =A7=A4*~`~*=A4=A7=93=A7=A4*~ -=3D=93=3D- jonas.hanning -=3D=93=3D-= ~*=A4=A7=93=A7=A4*~`~*=A4=A7 =A7=A4*~`~*=A4=A7 dabalhed -=3D=93=3D- ACID -=3D=93=3D- dj.eskimo =A7=A4*~`~= *=A4=A7 =A7=A4*~`~*=A4=A7=93=A7=A4*~ - http://130.157.38.38/ - ~*=A4=A7=93=A7=A4*~`~= *=A4=A7 =A7=A4*~`~*=A4=A7=93=A7=A4*~ acid -=3D=93=3D acid! =3D=93=3D- acid= ~*=A4=A7=93=A7=A4*~`~*=A4=A7 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 17:24:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA06764; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:24:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA06758; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:24:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv1.apple.com (A17-128-100-119.apple.com [17.128.100.119]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA61684 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:23:28 -0800 Received: from [17.221.20.215] (campma.apple.com [17.221.20.215]) by scv1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA10342 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:25:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199612060125.RAA10342@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Bandwidth?? Date: Thu, 5 Dec 96 17:24:45 -0800 x-sender: camp@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "Mark D. Camp" To: "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Can someone explain 'Bandwidth' to me? confused, -M *______________*______________* !E.A.C! Astronout 408 SpaceLounge Electronic Artists Collective From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 17:26:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA06854; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:26:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom19.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA06846; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mayer@localhost) by netcom19.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA19877; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:25:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199612060125.RAA19877@netcom19.netcom.com> To: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" Subject: Re: I'm out of here!! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Dec 96 15:54:47 PST." Date: Thu, 05 Dec 96 17:25:50 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk actually, i never singled *YOU* out. i purposefully kept your name out of it when posting about walt disney 'cause it's very likely you don't know his history and are just referring to his companies' animated movies (which i too admit to liking). i wasn't flaming *you* I was flaming walt disney. though, to tell you the truth, the fact that it's walt disney's birthday is about as NRR as you can get, and so was my reply. but if you're going to bring up walt disney as something even vaguely rave related, I feel compelled to indicate that the man himself was the antithesis of rave. about the only relation i can think of is that occasionally people project "fantasia" for rave light shows. now what the hell does walt disney's birthday have to do with that? w/r/t the other ranting, i was referring to the posts of plur@somethingorother who keeps going on and on about HOMIES in his posts (and his web site) while spouting a bunch of crap about how people just need to fully accept PLUR and they'll be REAL RAVERS! This just further fuels my belief that people that talk about PLUR are hypocrites first, and ravers second. Not that I have any idea what "raver" means. i agree with JSL, it's about music and dance... "it's just a party"... Replace every mention of PLUR on this list with "take jesus into your heart" and y'all begin to sound just like a bunch of baptists at a revival, and that, I find sickening. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == == When yer swimming in a creek and an eel bites yer cheek, that's a moray!== =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 17:28:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA06998; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:28:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from melvax.sonoma.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA06985; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:27:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from plastikdreams.sonoma.edu (SA-6EN38.sonoma.edu) by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.0-7 #8366) id <01ICNQIO2LII9PO3X7@SONOMA.EDU> for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:27:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 17:28:40 +0000 From: Jonas Hanning Subject: The future of SFRaves! X-Sender: hanning@sonoma.edu To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-id: <3.0.32.19961205172840.006f6474@sonoma.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ok folks, This is to let you all know that I've had it with this list. I'm on several other mailinglists (the Goa-list and two Swedish rave-lists), and I get more SHITTY, NON-RAVE RELATED posts from SFRaves in a day than I get from the 3 other lists in a month. Let's see, today we got Aliens, a shitty poem about drinking, discussions about Disney's b-day (with an OUTRAGEOUS reply that= had absolutely no place on this list), the possibility of waterslides as a means of transportation, and probably something that I MANAGED to miss. (That= CTRL-D combination is very useful these days...) What am I trying to say? Well, to me, this list is not a place to post your theories on aliens or attack innocent ravers over Walt Disney being a racist or not. This is a place to post things about RAVES, CLUBS, AND ANYTHING= MUSIC- RELATED. (Perhaps if you look at the name, SF RAVES, long enough the penny will fall down...) Well, just thought I'd get that off my chest before I sign off. reespect and hugs to the people who deserve it, jonas =A7=A4*~`~*=A4=A7=93=A7=A4*~ -=3D=93=3D- jonas.hanning -=3D=93=3D-= ~*=A4=A7=93=A7=A4*~`~*=A4=A7 =A7=A4*~`~*=A4=A7 dabalhed -=3D=93=3D- ACID -=3D=93=3D- dj.eskimo =A7=A4*~`~= *=A4=A7 =A7=A4*~`~*=A4=A7=93=A7=A4*~ - http://130.157.38.38/ - ~*=A4=A7=93=A7=A4*~`~= *=A4=A7 =A7=A4*~`~*=A4=A7=93=A7=A4*~ acid -=3D=93=3D acid! =3D=93=3D- acid= ~*=A4=A7=93=A7=A4*~`~*=A4=A7 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 17:40:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA08958; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:40:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from marble.litc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA08649; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com (arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.2.84]) by marble.litc.lockheed.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA24567 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:39:41 -0700 (MST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBE2D3.500A74E0@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:39:49 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: "Mark D. Camp" , sfraves - send mail to list Subject: RE: Bandwidth?? Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:39:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Bandwidth is simply a measure of how much information can be conveyed over a given channel in a unit measure of time. Often referred to as "bits per second". Since ANY type of information today (video, audio, text) can be sent "digitally" as packets of numbers over computer networks, the higher the bandwidth the faster data can be sent.... See Claude Shannon and Information Theory: "A graduate of Michigan, he went to MIT where he wrote a thesis on the use of Boole's algebra to analyse and optimise relay switching circuits. He joined Bell Telephones in 1941 as a research mathematician. He published A Mathematical Theory of Communication in 1949. His work founded the subject of information theory." - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -> Interestingly (to me anyway!), the more random the data the higher the information content. Therefore, totally random data has the highest information content of all! jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... ---------- From: Mark D. Camp To: sfraves Subject: Bandwidth?? Date: Thursday, December 05, 1996 5:24PM Can someone explain 'Bandwidth' to me? confused, -M *______________*______________* !E.A.C! Astronout 408 SpaceLounge Electronic Artists Collective From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 17:45:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA09717; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA09710; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:45:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv3.apple.com (A17-128-100-121.apple.com [17.128.100.121]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA27598 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:44:27 -0800 Received: from [17.128.200.151] (macip151.apple.com [17.128.200.151]) by scv3.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA31054 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:46:10 -0800 X-Sender: fitz@mail.apple.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:46:09 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Doug Hill Subject: NRR:Re: LSD Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Just out of curiosity did you or anyone find any information on the CIA's >use of LSD and psilocybin mushrooms for mind control experiments? >Apparently Timothy Leary got his first knowledge of LSD by volunteering for >these types of experiments. According to numerous sources, this is not correct. Timothey Leary got his first knowledge of LSD from a person referred to him by a friend. I believe it was Michael Beresford, though I will have to look this up. This was the guy with the mayonaise jar filled with water, powdered sugar, and 1/2 gram of LSD. Leary was said to have had his first acid trip by taking a spoonful of this concoction, which I calculated to be about 2-3000 Mics or 2-3 miligrams!! He had been doing numerous psilocybin experiments at the time, but this affected him so profoundly he gave up other psychedelics after that. On the other hand, your are correct when you state the CIA, FBI, DOD and many other government organizations did mind control/interrogation research using just about every psychoactive chemical known to man, including LSD. I found it somewhat interesting that they tested using THC (the active ingredient in marijuana) as an interrogation tool, but quickly gave up. It took them longer to give up on LSD. Check out the excellent books "Acid Dreams" or "Storming Heaven" or email for more info. Now back to your regularly scheduled raving. doug From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 17:49:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA10056; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:49:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from netro-nt1.netro-corp.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA10046; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:49:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by netro-nt1.netro-corp.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBE2D4.7C4659B0@netro-nt1.netro-corp.com>; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:48:12 -0800 Message-ID: From: Fred Thornton To: "'\\SFRaves\\'" , "'Dave Bayer'" Subject: RE: shitty post --> sober raving & E Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:48:11 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk It is possible for a person to dress out of class. But you would not. People dress the way there friends do; in order to 'fit in' like I said. Everything you describe is so typical for a person your age, the Bay Area, the California look. Put on a power business suite; see if you can fit in a rave. Did you happen to go to that guy Greg's Birthday party a few months ago. Everybody there was in standard rave dress; but some guy was wearing a power suite (I assume he had been else where and was checking out Greg's party along with others). The suit just did not make it. Period. But the suit would do well talking to a hiring manager at TRW. Of course people wear different cloths. Depends on the occasion; what you want to communicate to the person your trying to communicate with. My main point is your clothes; looks; the way you speak. It is used by others to evaluate if your a threat, a potential friend, etc. A cop can look at the occupants of a car and almost tell if they are likely to have dope in the car. It's almost common sense. The cop looks you over and decides how to react to you. Everybody does that. You might want to say, "oh how unfair" Yes it is. Do you think life is fair ? Talk to people who hang out on the street a lot. The Haight street crowd for example, or a homeless. They get quite good at figuring out if the person walking towards them is going to be a problem. I am not going to write thousands of pages of text to say "if this then that." I am not sure you can quantify it at all. But it's there, people do use it. A cop see's a man and he makes a decision to shove the guy against the wall and spread his legs if the guy has a certain 'look'. Or simply asked the guy for some ID if he has another look. The cop acts like that because hundreds of times in his experience; people who look a certain way act a certain way. Do you find it hard to believe a guy going down the street with a beard; hair to his ass; a backpack; weird clothes is more likely to have dope on his person then a guy who looks like the people you see on TV advertising cars ? TV and movies are quite good at 'casting' people. In fact; to me; it's common sense to read how somebody looks and deal with them on terms based on how they look. FWT > Ok, I dress in jeans that fit with a little bit of slack and throw >on T shirts that look like they might be from the Gap or Sears, some are >actually from LL Bean or from my skating days 6 years ago (damn they still >fit) or from concerts that long ago or from ski clubs that gave free >shirts. I have half my head shaved and now the other half is dreaded. I >wear Tevas or hiking boots on my feet. I throw on woolly socks and my >North Face fleecy pullover that I put a thick cotton shirt inside of for >the hood when it gets cold. I lost my gray stove top wool from Pakistan >hat but mysteriously, a new red one appeared in my coffin after a party, >so now it is red.... > > What does that make me? A raver? A hippie (I do not have any >dayglow)? An average joe? A crusty (shit, I took a shower yesterday, >scratch that one)? A saracistic bastard (now that one I might just like)? >dave > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 17:51:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA10218; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from marble.litc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA10208; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:51:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com (arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com [129.197.2.84]) by marble.litc.lockheed.com (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id SAA26212 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:50:40 -0700 (MST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBE2D4.D9097380@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:50:48 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: Love your Enemies Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:50:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Replace every mention of PLUR on this list with "take jesus into your > heart" and y'all begin to sound just like a bunch of baptists at a > revival, and that, I find sickening. Jesus was a Jew who preached Love. Loving your enemies is a concept that even today, 2000 years later, is too revolutionary a concept for many to grasp. One should not reject the message because of the messenger. Whether you believe in the divinity of Jesus or not, the concept of Love without reservation is one that Humans STILL have to learn..... Likewise, whether Disney was good or evil should say nothing about whether his Art was good or not..... I find in general it's best to not inquire too deeply about ANYONE whose work you respect because you will find that they are ALL FLAWED..... Raving is supposed to about MORE than just dancing and having a party. Otherwise, why is Raving any different or any better than ballroom dancing to Lawrence Welk? jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Dec 5 17:53:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA10481; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.8.3/V2.0) id RAA10425; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:53:12 -0800 (PST) From: Derek Chung Message-Id: <199612060153.RAA10425@taz.hyperreal.com> Subject: This Week's SFR Calendar! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (SF Raves) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 17:53:12 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves-calendar@hyperreal.com (SFR Calendar) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk You've got several choices for Friday and only a couple for Saturday - check out the weeklies, or maybe someone can send in a couple more... I'll be out of town again this weekend, see ya next week! As usual, directions for subscribing and unsubscribing are at the bottom of the list. THE SFR CALENDAR http://www.hyperreal.com/raves/sf/calendar/gencal.cgi _________________________________________________________________ Upcoming Parties in the San Francisco Bay Area Thursday, December 5th - _enjoy_ David Harness, Jay-J, DJ Son, the Baroness, DJ Consuelo, the Josh Jones Jazz Ensemble. 9pm-3am, 21+, $5. club 181, eddy and taylor streets, SF. 415.908.6760 Friday, December 6th - NU-S.A.L.T. Productions presents _Argon_ Rig-A-Tony, Carlos Campos, DLX, Simon Apex, Rockit, Dennis. Limited quantity $7 presale tix available. Sacramento. 916.499.7417 Friday, December 6th - _Lepidoptera_ Greg Sandler (Harmony), Shilo Maggi (Journees), Tom, Zach. $10 before midnite, $8 presale. $12. 408.535.0432 Friday, December 6th - _The X Files_ Sam (Seattle), Jeno, Ghost, Carlos, Frank Nitty, Kwashi. Lighting by Insight. $10 before 10pm 415.560.5314 408.235.9344 415.297.0237 Friday, December 6th - _King St.Garage_ David Harness, Patrick. Spread some joy...bring a (new) toy! Get in for $3. midnight-6am, 21+, $6. 174 King St., SF. 415.522.6887 Saturday, December 7th - Thomas Trouble presents _Karma_ Graham, Theta Blip, Thomas Trouble, Dutch, Mystr-E. $8 before 10pm indoor and outdoor 415.908.6726 Saturday, December 7th - Solle Clothing presents _Future Funk_ Delicious Beats To Tickle Your Feet! Vinyl, One Nation Underground, Taj, Alien Tom (San Diego), Moises, DJ Martijn (Amsterdam/UK). 9pm-3am+, $15. 435 Broadway (upstairs). 415.668.2476 Thursday, December 12nd - _Jungle Love_ Raymond Roker, Star Eyes, DJ Sifu. advance tix at Drop Beat Records (510.654.0992) 10pm-, 18+, $5. 520 4th St, SF. 415.281.0772 Friday, December 13rd - Harmony presents _Freaky People_ come and celebrate the spirit of superstition Trent, Minor Minor, Brandon, Brian Flip, Greg. $10 with a costume. limited # of tickets (400) $15. sf. 408.486.9591 415.263.4885 Saturday, December 14th - _Candyland_ Simon, Carlos, Ghost, Josh, Liquid, Jazz-e, Kwashi, Spinner, Tripnotix, Jin, Nam. Visuals by L.S.D., Square one. free candy all night Saturday, December 14th - _Scoop_ Serving You Delicious Helpings of Fat-Free Beats Jeno, Tracy, Don Crisp, Timmie. 10p-8a, All ages, $10. the Zocala Room, 210 W.6th St (@ Broadway), Chico. 415.431.1927 Saturday, December 14th - _Digital Balance_ Halo, Justin Long (Chicago), Andre Lucero, Sho, Gouracandra, Twerk. 415.522.2365 Saturday, December 14th - out-a-sight Spun, Garth, Mark E Quark, Mystic Bill. Visuals by Hyperdelic, Mark Johns. 415.437.4462 408.793.5110 Saturday, December 14th - beyond space-time presents _Kundalini_ 2 year anniversary Tony, Galen, Travis, Garth, Markie Mark. 510.340.9338 415.303.9481 Wednesday, December 18th - electric nerve presents _Temple_ John Howard, Cimino, Nerve. 9p-2a, All ages, $7. 415.263.6836 707.524.8775 Friday, December 20th - Just Dance/Party Zone presents _Eurotika_ Gabe, Tony Gamboa, Tony, Zee-Que, Vibes, Jam N J, Ali, Ton:E, Chach, David Collins, Rated R, John Nissan. Modesto. 209.549.0616 916.282.4291 510.288.4056 209.991.9019 Saturday, December 21st - choice...San Francisco presents The Gathering The 5 year anniversary Tony, Josh, Jeno, Spun, Rob Doten, Onionz, Kevin Saunderson, Darkhorse, Garth, Jon Williams, Ethan, Noel, A Man Like Malcolm, Joe Rice, Nick Philip, Alex Patterson (the Orb), Ambient Temple of Imagination, Mystery School. E.S.W.H./H.O.B.M./C.C.C./C.A.N. 415.905.9629 415.522.3994 Friday, December 27th - Club Candy Robert OleySyck, Tin-Tin, DJ Shoe. 11pm-. Las Vegas. 702.458.TOON Friday, December 27th - _?_ Jim Hopkins, Kid Bippy, DJ Crust, DJ Dan, Barry Weaver, Donald Glaude, Radley, Mike Moss. 510.210.9219 916.863.3318 800.204.3986 Sunday, December 29th - _Future Primitive Soundsession_ 415.905.8868 Tuesday, December 31st - Cool World presents Planet New Year Festival '96 Crystal Method, Ruffneck, Angelina, Martha-B, D.R.E.A.M., Media Circus, Supa DJ Dimitry (Deee-Lite), Peter Lazonby (UK), Jody (UK), Garth, Pete Avila, Robbie Hardkiss, Ghost, EFX, Emma, Jeno, Tony, Graeme, Carlos, Steve Masters, Simon, Jon Williams, Norman, Jason Mouse, Sifu, Raymond Roker, R.A.W., Tomas, Shoam, Serenity, Honey B., Mike P., Freaky Chakra, Spacetime Continuum, Darkhorse, Thomas, Professor Smith, Josh. tix $25 till 12/1, $30 til day of show, $35 at the door. Advance tix from BASS, ticketweb, housewares, wicked (berkeley), solid grooves, in tha mix... Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center, , Oakland. 415.979.4543 408.235.1077 510.273.9542 916.491.1853 Tuesday, December 31st - Cloud Factory New Year's Eve advance tix at Frequency-8 and Drop Beat. $10. Monterey. 408.457.7726 Tuesday, December 31st - Nomad Interactive presents _Origin, New Year's Eve_ Markie, Josh, Minor Minor, Pollywog, Discoboy, Chris Harshman (Watts Music NYC), Dubtribe, Beyond Race. 415.675.5605 415.541.5605 408.236.3398 916.484.4213 Saturday, January 11st - 6 in da mornin & Trancendental Productions presents _Eminence '97_ Superstar DJ Keoki, R.A.W., Terence Toy, Barry Weaver, DJ Ghost, Tony, Simon, Flux, Spun, Tripnotix, Alika (Hawaii), Moshe, Shoam, Sifu, Benji, Bonnie, Rich, Noel, UFO, Nebula Nine, Astral Matrix, Mind Scape/Media Sirkas. Visuals by Liquid Lights, Square One, Eyes Mind. presale tix + free eminence '97 mix tape for $20 from Housewares, In Tha Mix, Diversity, Solid Grooves, Aftershock starting December 11th. A portion of the proceeds will be donated to the Weott Tribe at Blue Lake Rancheria. 800.590.7032 510.906.7429 415.437.6631 408.787.1290 Saturday, January 18th - Ghostribe / Underground Urban Guerrillas presents Acid Breaks Kelly Reverb (Dallas), Donald Glaude, Barry Weaver, Carlos, Ghost, Frank Nitty, Tripnotix, Preston, Moshe, Pat Allen, Boomerang Fidget, Glo Worm, Sean Andrew, Foster. Visuals by L.S.D, Lumitech.. presale tix on sale December 1st. 415.273.1474 510.433.7181 408.881.0632 Thursday, January 23rd - _Jungle Love_ DJ Flux w/Jamal-ski, DJ Rich, DJ Sifu, Madame. advance tix at Drop Beat Records (510.654.0992) 10pm-, 18+, $5. 520 4th St, SF. 415.281.0772 Saturday, February 15th - Feel Good Entertainment presents _Love Affair_ more info to follow... _________________________________________________________________ W E E K L I E S House/techno/acid jazz/ambient/etc reg'lar happenins Some of them may have ended - let me know when that happens... Thursday Lift - House, Funk w/DJs David Harness, Ruben Mancias, Jay-J, Black, guests. 12mid-5:30am, 21+, $5. 55 Natoma, SF. 415.267.5984 Velvet Shop - House, Techno. 21+, $5. 14 S Second @ Santa Clara, SJ. 408.235.1556 Full House - Acid Jazz, House w/DJs Finn, Matt Bernsen, Andrew Rawnsley, Bruno Ybarra, guests, live musicians. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. Miss Pearl's Jam House, Eddy & Larkin, SF. _Le Jazz Hot!_ - future sounds for jazz heads w/DJs Andrew Jervis, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. Nickies BBQ, 460 Haight, SF. 415.621.6508 _Real_ - house, techno. every first Thursday of the month 9pm-2am, 18+, $7. Pantages Theater, 1225 K St Mall, Sacramento. 916.565.9588 _soulvation_ - acid jazz, hiphop w/DJs Roman, George, Aural B, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+. elbo room, 647 Valencia, SF. 415.522.2946 _Half & Half_ - house w/DJs Frankie T., Jeff. the Agenda cellar, 399 S First St., San Jose. _Rhythm_ - house, techno w/DJs Derek, Toby, Daniel, Joe Brown, Stevian, Mark Willson, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. Club Phoenix, 325 S.First St, San Jose. 408.987.9193 _Apollo_ - house w/DJs Pete Avila, Jay-R, guests. free before 10:30 w/flyer 9:30p-, 21+, $3. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.905.4209 _ikon massive_ - a showcase of all that encompasses electronic musiq w/DJs Miquel, Laron, Gabe Real, Abstract, Mike B., dvw (mental souljah), demetras/soper. begins 11.21.96 21+. 330 Ritch St, SF. 415.709.1241 The Electronicool Happy Hour - Future sounds and phasing light images craMMed into the Happy Hour tradition. w/DJs Spesh. Visuals by Kevin Berne.5pm-9pm, Free. 111 Minna Street, SF. _Phonixs_ - "sounds never seen" w/DJs Marcus, Chris OST. every other Thursday 21+, $2. the Top, 424 Haight, SF. _Ascendance_ - house, techno, trance w/DJs guest DJs weekly. 1133 Pacific Ave, Santa Cruz. 408.429.2330 [12.5 - Astral Matrix, Greg, Kamia] [12.12 - Tracy, Rob Doten, Jeff] _f'tumsh!_ - ambient, techno w/DJs Chuck-roc (Denver 409), Erin. 21+, $2. the Top, 424 Haight, SF. 415.864.4528 Friday _ Sound Factory _- House w/DJs Pete Avila, David Harness, guests. 9:30pm-7am, 21+, $10. Sound Factory, 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF. 415.543.1300 _Soul'd Out_ - spinnin' the hard and soul of house w/DJs Julius Papp, Rick Preston, guests. free before 10:30 9pm-, 21+, $5. Hi Fi Lounge, 14 S 2nd St @ Santa Clara, San Jose. _Liquid Fridays_ - House w/DJs various DJs. 10pm-2am, 18+, Free. 2721 Broadway, Sacramento., Sacramento. 916.484.4285 _Nikita_ - house, techno w/DJs Jeno, Simon, Henrik. November guests include Danny Rampling, Scott Henry and Keoki 10pm-6am, 21+, $10. 1015 Folsom St, SF. 415.267.0568 _Beats_ - house, breakbeat, trance w/DJs Carlos Campos, Karizma, weekly guests. 7042 Folsom Blvd between Howe and 65th, Sacramento. 415.273.1345 916.558.0850 _the atomic cafe_ - acid jazz, trip hop, house w/DJs Finn, Matty B, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $5. Voodoo, Eddy & Larkin, SF. 415.267.4822 OM lounge - trip-hop, house, acid jazz w/DJs Is, guest DJs weekly. 9pm-2am, 21+, $1. Minna Street Gallery, 111 Minna St, SF. _Blueprint_ - Space Age Pop Meets the Abstract Sound of Drum and Bass w/DJs Sonic Pioneer, Bald Elvis, Starsky. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. 579 Howard St, SF. Good Times - house, techno w/DJs Solar, Sean Murray, Loren. Dress Code: no hats, t-shirts, sneakers, team sports colors 10:30pm-4am, 21+, $10. 704 4th St., San Rafael. 415.451.7237 Saturday _Other Whirled_ - House, Techno w/DJs Warren, Nobel, Jason Cassady, Nikki Rivera, guests. saturday morning 6am-, 21+. 201 9th @ Howard, SF. _Release _- Acid Jazz, Funk, Reggae, House w/DJs Jerry Ross, Josh, Mr. Sulu, Randy Wong. 21+. 1015 Folsom, , SF. 415.337.7457 _Vanilla Fudge _- House w/DJs Corey Black, Sunshine, Moonbeam, Jason, Big Lee, Darren. occasional saturday nights. 10pm-2am, Free. Cafe Bastille, 55 Belden Alley, SF. 415.764.2903 _Metro Jazz _- Acid Jazz w/DJs Ruben Mancias, Mauricio Avilas, Tom Thump, Franky, guests. 10pm-, 21+, $7. 1190 Folsom @ 8th, SF. 415.597.1010 _Loveworks_ - house w/DJs Dani, Pete Avila, Neon Leon, guests. 9pm-infinity, . 111 Minna St, SF. 415.646.0744 _Sugah_ - house, jazz, soul w/DJs Jay-J, Kwai, Julius Papp, guests, live performers. free b4 10:30pm 9pm-2am, 21+, $5. the Hi-Fi Lounge, 14 S 2nd St, San Jose. 408.282.HIFI _Massa_ - Trip hop, trance hall dub w/DJs Spun, Markie, inna city, guests. 11pm-5am, 21+, $8. Caribbean Zone, 55 Natoma St, SF. _Club 1251_ - house w/DJs Dave Alga. $5 for 21+ 16-17 year olds can only stay till midnight 8:30p-2:30a, 16+, $8. 1251 Arroyo Way, Walnut Creek. 510.977.8656 _One Flight Up_ - new york detroit chicago w/DJs Scope (hydrant ny), Chris Orr (xlr8r). every first and third saturday. 451 pine upstairs, SF. Sunday _ Spundae _- House, Techno w/DJs Henrik, Carlos, Miquel, weekly guests. free b4 10:30p includes tecknotica (deep inside Spundae) 10pm-5:30am, 21+, $5. 55 Natoma St., SF. 415.974.9389 _Leopard Lounge_ - Acid Jazz, Funk & Live Bands. w/DJs Suiki, Jay-J, Anthony, Julius Papp, Mark Farina, guests. 2125 Lombard @ Fillmore, SF. 415.771.2583 _Pleasuredome_ - House w/DJs Neil Lewis, guests. 21+, $8. 177 Townsend, SF. 415.985.5256 Quench - House, techno w/DJs Spun, Ryan Tapia, guests. 21+. Hi-Fi Lounge, 14 S 2nd @ Santa Clara, San Jose. 408.282.HIFI _Sunday Roast_ - techno? w/DJs guest DJs weekly. 9pm-2am, . Mick's Lounge, 2513 Van Ness, SF. 415.928.0404 _Irtu_ - acid jazz, funk, rare groove w/DJs Tom Thump, guests. live entertainment weekly 9pm-2am, . 685 Sutter @ Taylor, SF. 415.270.3183 _Dub Mission_ - SF's only dub night w/DJs Sep, Jah Bill, Akilah the Woman Dread, Ludichris. first Sunday of each month starting 12/1/96. 9pm-, 21+, $3. the Elbo Room, 647 Valencia @ 17th, SF. [12.8 - tribute to The Upsetter, Lee "Scratch" Perry w/Sep & Jah Bill] [12.15 - tribute to King Tubby w/DJs Ludichris and guest] [12.22 - double birthday celebration w/Sep & Jah Bill] _Return_ - house, trip hop w/DJs Jeff, Tracy, Grey-V, guests. the Usual, 400 S First St, San Jose. 408.535.0330 _Sessions_ - Deep sounds for your Sunday afternoons w/DJs Jaz, Steve, guests. starts Nov.10, then every other Sunday afternoon 21+, Free. the Hi-Fi Lounge, 14 S 2nd @ Santa Clara, San Jose. 408.282.HIFI Monday _Noc Noc_ - techno/ambient/jungle w/DJs Mohsen. 21+, Free. 557 Haight St., SF. _Tongue n' Groove _- trip hop, jungle, acid jazz w/DJs Felix the Dog, Darkhorse, Tom Thump, Pollywog, Laron, guests. 10pm-4am, 21+, $5. Cat's Grill & Alley, 1190 Folsom @ 8th, SF. 415.431.3332 _rotation_ - jazz, hiphop, soul, acid jazz, funk w/DJs racer x, yamu, stef, rasta cue-tip, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+. up & down club, 1151 Folsom St, SF. _mad_ - trance, electro, old school, minimal, hard, detroit, acid w/DJs Alex, Joe Rice, Monty, Sho, guests. 2$ before 11pm 10pm-2am, 18+, $3. Bahia Cabana, 1600 Market St, SF. _The Deep End_ - Experimental ambient lounge w/DJs Leath, guests. for info: leath@sirius.com 9pm-2am, 21+. the Hi-Fi Lounge, 14 S 2nd Street @ Santa Clara, San Jose. 408.282.HIFI _Monday Night Dinner_ - a haphazard collection of ravers who get together weekly to properly wind down their weekend or rev their engines for the coming week. a different cuisine each week, usually in SF. info on SFRaves or here (when available). Ask for the SFRaves table. after-party at Mad. 8:30p-All ages. Tuesday Breathe Deep - serious music for serious dancers w/DJs Jay-J, Ruben Mancias, Miquel, guests. 11pm-5am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom., SF. 415.998.9515 _Succotash!_ - tasty jazz - funk - beats - space w/DJs tom thump, rasta q-tip. 21+, Free. up & down club, 1151 folsom st., SF. _supper_ - funk, acid jazz w/DJs Caspar, guests. 21+, Free. Julie's Supper Club, 1123 Folsom @ 7th, SF. 415.861.0707 _Lost in Space_ - house, hip-hop w/DJs Pause, Dark Money, Winnie B, Eric Lacy. 21+, Free. Cafe Mars, 798 Brannan @ 7th, SF. _Eclectic_ - house, jungle, drum & bass w/DJs Yamu, Siege, Franko, Foster, guests. Fresh fruit & condoms to all 9pm-2am, 21+. Paradise Bar & Grill, 5356 College Ave, Oakland. _The Deep_ - house, techno. 9pm-2am, . Palookaville, 1133 Pacific Ave, Santa Cruz?. 408.425.3316 _Speakeasy_ - Good Music. Deep House to Jungle w/DJs Shannon, Mauricio, guests. every other Tuesday 9pm-2am, $2. Coco Club, 139 8th St, SF. _Syncopic_ - Psychostoneyrollerbeats w/DJs Arkay, guests. happens on the 2nd & 4th Tuesday of each month $3 donation. 9pm-2am, 21+. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF. [12.10 - Denrot] [12.24 - Keith] _Plush_ - house, jungle, trance, ambient w/DJs guest DJs weekly. 9:30p-2a, 21+, $3. 2708 J St, Sacramento. 916.484.4285 _Pure_ - house w/DJs Brian Brandon, guests. 9pm-, 18+. The Rage, 1890 Arden Way, Sacramento. 916.929.0232 Wednesday _ Come/Unity _- House, Techno, Ambient w/DJs Simon, Jeno, Garth. first Wednesday of the month. 10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.241.8815 _Roots_ - House, Dub, Reggae w/DJs Garth, Jeno, guests. Buna & guests in the dub reggae room 10pm-4am, 21+, $6. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.512.5713 _The Lounge_ - 9pm-3am, 21+. 1401 Arden Way, Sacramento. 916.922.8041x4240 _Wish_ - techno, house w/DJs guests weekly. Lighting by EyeTribe 18+. Bahia, 1600 Market St, SF. 415.436.0663 _Groove_ - techno w/DJs Dreamer, Carlos, special guests. 10pm-?, $5. 415.437.6905 _Step Off_ - acid jazz, trip hop w/DJs Mark Farina, Miquel, Julius Papp. 21+. the EndUp, 6th & Harrison, SF. _Sexy T.K.O._ - abstract drum and bass w/DJs Sonic Pioneer, Starsky, eclectic guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $4. 111 Minna St, SF. _Audio Impact_ - jungle w/DJs Rotating Bass Kru DJs, guests. first and third wednesdays of each month 9p-3a, 18+, $5. 1024 Kearny @ Broadway, SF. 415.332.5800x247 _phresh_ - house w/DJs Jay-J, friends. 10p-2a, 21+, Free. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF. _[feminine] PHAT_ - hiphop, acid jazz w/DJs Charlotte, Stef, R-Pos. 10p-2a, 21+. the Up & Down Club, 1151 Folsom St, SF. _________________________________________________________________ Info Lines * Be-At Info Line - 415-626-4087. Usually has 5-10 listings, updated daily. * the Buzz-line, a global party network - 415.568.1338 * Clubline - 415.979.8686 * Fatline - 415.207.3668 * Frequency 8 Trance/Techno infoline - 415.541.5019 * The Groove Line - (415) 331.1500 ext.4788 * Housewares Rave Line - 415.281.0125 _________________________________________________________________ Radio/TV Shows * Sunday morning 9am-11am - "Underbrush" w/DJ Radon - Beats, Breakz and Buzz KZSU 90.1 (Stanford). * Sunday night 11pm-2am - "The Dreaming/Innermind Show" w/DJ Miracle & Mr. Monchichi. House, Jungle, Trip-Hop, Ambient, Dub, Break-Beats & guest DJs. KSCU 103.3 (Santa Clara) * Monday afternoon 12:30-3:00 pm - DJ Jerecho presents the best of the urban polyrhythmic experience jungle, acid jazz, techno, electro, breakbeat KDVS, 90.3 FM (Davis) * Tuesday night 9pm-mid - "An Epiphany of Sound" hosted by J.C. and Monkeywrench. Varied techno sub-genres, noise, spoken word, world music. KZSU 90.1 (Stanford) * Wednesday night 9pm-11pm - free form music mix. KPFA 94.1 (Berkeley) * Friday 3pm-6pm - free form music mix. KUSF 90.3 (SF) (also available on Realaudio * Fridays 9pm-midnight - Andrew from Groove Merchant spins on KUSF 90.3 (SF) * Friday night/Saturday morning - midnight-noon. House/techno mix with Johnny K, Ozone & guests - KCSS 91.9 Central Valley (Turlock) * Friday night/Saturday morning - "Just Desserts" w/Mr.Goodwrench - 10pm-2am Jungle, Detroit, Techno, Acid House, whacked-out Dub, and noise KFJC 89.7 - Los Altos Hills * Friday night - nocturnal transmissions - featuring house DJs from SF and around the world. mid-2am, 107.7 FM (SF) * Friday night - Your Mama's House w/Pete Avila - 3am-5am, 106.1 KMEL. * Friday night - Moondance. Ambient; 3am-7:30am, KUSF 90.3 SF. * Friday night/Saturday morning - the Uncle Noah TV Show - the best in Techno and House music. 3-5am, KDVS 90.3fm (Davis) * Saturday afternoon - "Bus Stop" - music and talk w/guest DJs from SF and beyond. 2pm-3pm. KUSF 90.3 SF. * Saturday, 4pm-6pm - "Aural Fixation" w/Ted Vadakan. experimental ambient, trip hop, jungle musicality. KZSC 88.1 fm (Santa Cruz) * Saturday night 11pm - Flux Television, Viacom Channel 53 - Ambient, acid jazz and house music videos & interviews. (415) 281-3377. flux@flux.net * (every other) Saturday night 10p-12:30a - "1984" w/DJ Richtoffen. House, Trance and German rave. 90.1 (Chico) * Ambiance Magazine - 9:30p weds-sun PNC Cable 2 (Modesto & Oakdale), 9p fri & sat, marcus cable ch 9 (ceres & turlock). _________________________________________________________________ For a _search_ interface to the calendar, see the Late Train club section (http://www.latetrain.com/clubs/). _________________________________________________________________ Administrative Notes If anyone has info on any other events, send it to me! I can't possibly hope to get all the info every week. This info gets sent via email every Thursday. To subscribe or unsubscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to majordomo@hyperreal.com with either the line subscribe sfraves-calendar or unsubscribe sfraves-calendar There is also an sfraves discussion mailing list for issues related to clubs, parties, house and techno music, etc. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@hyperreal.com with the line subscribe sfraves in the body of the message. Derek Chung - dhchung@hyperreal.com From sfraves-