From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 02:01:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id CAA12135; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 02:01:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id CAA12130; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 02:01:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from inanna.ccnet.com [207.171.196.187] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJGPg-0000Bj-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 02:01:21 -0800 Message-ID: <3279CA61.14E2@slip.net> Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 02:01:05 -0800 From: "inanna@slip.net" Reply-To: inanna@slip.net Organization: The Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "John S. Lee" CC: Ariel Stallings , piercy@toolik.Stanford.EDU, geoffw@cybertribe.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Drugs and the Mass Media -Reply References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk John Lee writes: "I do not want to be a "youth" for the rest of my life. I am GLAD my 20's are a memory, and look forward to ... I revel in the fact that as I get older I get to see the world change. I do not want to see the world as a child,..." Amen. I had a good time in my 20's; but I am having an even better time now. I treasure my younger friends - but there is no way I would trade places with them. I feel I have earned my age! Looking forward to the future, Diana Greer From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 08:05:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA12183; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 08:05:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA12161; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 08:05:39 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id LAA19719; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:05:32 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00706; Fri, 1 Nov 96 08:05:32 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 27A2E6E0; Fri, 1 Nov 96 09:07:58 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 08:02:18 -0800 Message-Id: <27A2E6E0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re: My Problem With PLUR... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, Hughdhyana@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk just remember this one word. COMPASSION. That's about all we need to do. Respectfully deepfog From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 09:01:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA17016; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA16994; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:00:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BBC7D3.C7FACD30@misnt1.rely.com>; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:05:08 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: FRIDAY!!!!!! Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:05:05 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Right ON!!! Yesterday seemed like Friday, and now I wake up thinking "Saturday?" Uh... No. Im sitting here with a pile of paperwork thinking, " 5 o'clock is just a few hours away..." But tonite.... Mantra? Freakers Ball?? Karma??? WHO'S GOING WHERE?!?!?! Hmm, one other kwestion: Where is Tweekin Records? It's been awhile since I've been to a Wicked... But, Demension Se7en usually assures a Grande tyme too... C-U in the VOID, ---Adam "Stay Connected..." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 09:36:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA20354; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:36:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA20332; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:35:51 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id MAA24655; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:35:23 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06422; Fri, 1 Nov 96 09:35:22 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 27A42FB0; Fri, 1 Nov 96 10:35:39 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:31:59 -0800 Message-Id: <27A42FB0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re: FRIDAY!!!!!! To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" , Adam Guevara Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk i'm goin to ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: FRIDAY!!!!!! Author: Adam Guevara at ccsmtp Date: 11/1/96 9:05 AM Right ON!!! Yesterday seemed like Friday, and now I wake up thinking "Saturday?" Uh... No. Im sitting here with a pile of paperwork thinking, " 5 o'clock is just a few hours away..." But tonite.... Mantra? Freakers Ball?? Karma??? WHO'S GOING WHERE?!?!?! Hmm, one other kwestion: Where is Tweekin Records? It's been awhile since I've been to a Wicked... But, Demension Se7en usually assures a Grande tyme too... C-U in the VOID, ---Adam "Stay Connected..." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 09:38:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA20623; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:38:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA20393; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA24098 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:36:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA07004; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:27:47 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:27:46 -0800 (PST) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: Birthday Greetings To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi Everyone! I hope you all had lots of adventures last night... my Halloween consisted of partyhopping across Berkeley, dressed (absolute last minute) as a (so original!) kittycat. The ears may make a repeat appearance at one of our parties! ;) BSP: Today is my Birthday!! 27! (um, could someone please tell me how that happened? I swear to God yesterday I was 21... :P) So, to celebrate my birthday, I'm going to do my favorite thing in the world... go out dancing with all of you! But where to go? I'm very attracted to MANTRA - psychedelic trance on the spiritual tip. The Pacific Benefit too is a worthy cause... but two hesitations: house music and (I'm sorry to say) Thomas Trouble. Now, Irish Tom is one of those great characters in our scene, and I met him at my first party, but I've heard mediocre things about the parties he's thrown and his dj'ing (though he may be much better now). What are people's thoughts on that?? And where are y'all headed?? See ya tonite, love, Nancy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 09:38:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA20628; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA20612; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:38:38 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id MAA24708; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:38:22 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06586; Fri, 1 Nov 96 09:38:22 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 27A43AE0; Fri, 1 Nov 96 10:38:38 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:34:35 -0800 Message-Id: <27A43AE0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re: FRIDAY!!!!!! To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" , Adam Guevara Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Im going to Karma??? Look for the person who claims he's from the 24th century on an urgent mission. He will perhaps be surveying the are with a sophisticated scanning device. You will have then found deepfog ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: FRIDAY!!!!!! Author: Adam Guevara at ccsmtp Date: 11/1/96 9:05 AM Right ON!!! Yesterday seemed like Friday, and now I wake up thinking "Saturday?" Uh... No. Im sitting here with a pile of paperwork thinking, " 5 o'clock is just a few hours away..." But tonite.... Mantra? Freakers Ball?? Karma??? WHO'S GOING WHERE?!?!?! Hmm, one other kwestion: Where is Tweekin Records? It's been awhile since I've been to a Wicked... But, Demension Se7en usually assures a Grande tyme too... C-U in the VOID, ---Adam "Stay Connected..." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 10:38:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA26199; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:38:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA26186; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:38:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.humboldt.edu by axe.humboldt.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #17164) id <0E07FS301001M6@axe.humboldt.edu>; Fri, 01 Nov 1996 10:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 10:38 -0800 (PST) From: Rebecca Klassen Subject: Re: Publicizing PLUR (was: "Drugs and the Mass Media") In-reply-to: <9609308467.AA846723137@smtplink.acer.com> To: Andy Wyszkowski Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, SDream Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk DANGER! EXTREMELY LONG!! (but i think relevant and interesting) Wow you just hit on my pet theory (kindof)! Except that my pet theory is that flapper women were trying to emulate children in their persual of men. So really you didn't say the same thing. I also think (in my extremely perceptive sense of observation) that there is a significant number of raver girls who do the same thing, or at least that I have noticed down south. You'd see the lollipop sucking pigtail havin little girly giggling high cute voice tweeting raver girls appealing to the boys while on e, in overt sexuality. My theory isn't totally hashed out in the flapper aspect of the argument, b/c it was a similar (but different!) sort of malaise. is that the right word? But anyway, flappers wore corsets to squish their breasts down and appear flat-chested, and really deemphasize any curves, as did the cut of their dresses. I got my spark from watching the movie version of the Great Gatsby, where at his party is this flock of women running around screaming and then there's this cabaret type scene where the singers/dancers have these high trilling voices and well, I know that's not much evidence, but... Well I see a parallel in the sort of feigned sense of sexual equality during the flapper period and what I observed down south. The "little girl" appeal of what is currently determined to be -fashionable- in my own opinion can certainly not be denied; looking in any advertisement or magazine geared to the younger set (teens +) would evidence this. And then there's that mixed up sexuality bit. The flapper period was definitely one of sensuality and the beginnings of sexual freedom, and the ability to get totally trashed and fucked up like never before, out of which arose role confusion. So I don't know how my argument is even convinceable, and if anyone has any insight let me know. However, Andy, I disagree w/ the flapper/hippie comparison. The flapper period was one of change, yes, but in a melancholy party to you die, conspicuous consumption, glamour seeking sort of way (perhaps demonstrated by the Decadence art movement of the time, specifically what arose out of the Symbolist and Art Nouveau movements?). It hailed spiritedness, independence, but in a self-destructive manner. I guess that's where I see similarities in our popular culture, in the Heroin eyes fuck me look of feminine passivity portrayed in fashion marketing, and other venues. The hippies, however, encited awareness of the nature of status quo. Because of them we presently have a greater number environmentally aware and activist people in our nation. Flag burning is a strong symbol, but strength is wholly admirable. The thing with the mass marketing of the PLUR idealism is that it won't work precisely b/c it doesn't carry you any further than believing in love; which is powerful in it's simplicity, but there's a lot of room for hypocrisy in love as evidenced in western literature (literature being myths, or a statement of the way people operate). I think people must be encited, or excited, to go beyond a mere pronouncement of PLUR (which is a fundament, I'm not saying that PLUR is not a wonderful attitude), but to release their apathy. An excellent means of furthering this basis of understanding is environmental awareness, which is respect at its basic level. I read a quote the other day, and I can't remember who wrote it, or what it was verbatim, but it basically said that during the turn of the century, the fear was not good or evil, but mediocrity. i think that that's what we're moving towards- mediocrity. we don't care enough about something to make it worthwhile, make it real. flutter flutter <= (haha Andy) rebecca From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 10:42:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA26615; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA26567; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:41:55 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA02497 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:41:12 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:41:12 -0500 Message-ID: <961101134110_1913989481@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Dream some true! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I would just like to say that last night, I spun at Spirit and a personal dream of mine came true! I got to play at a real rave! Thumping sound system and lots of people dancing!! I even had someone staring at me while I mixed!: ) Thanks Leslie, MHG, Liquid, Justin and Boomerang!!! IM IN HEAVEN!!!!!!:) Ok Im done rambling!=) Jonathan Thanks Vlad From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 10:48:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA27165; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:48:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from bass-station.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA27157; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:48:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [207.76.139.151] by bass-station.com with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:42:07 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Nancy Shaw , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Ethan Miller Subject: Re: Birthday Greetings Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:42:07 -0700 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 5:27 PM -0000 11/1/96, Nancy Shaw wrote: >BSP: Today is my Birthday!! 27! (um, could someone please tell me how >that happened? I swear to God yesterday I was 21... :P) Happy Birthday! >I'm very attracted to MANTRA - psychedelic trance on the spiritual tip. >The Pacific Benefit too is a worthy cause... but two hesitations: house >music and ... I wasn't planning on playing any house tonite..... =) see ya ethan ( ethan miller )-------------- ---------- ( http://www.bass-station.com )---------- ----------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 10:56:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA27878; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA27871; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:56:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from Friley126.IASTATE.EDU (friley126.res.iastate.edu [129.186.78.126]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23656; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:55:50 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0b19.32.19961101125546.0070c5ec@pop-3.iastate.edu> X-Sender: jzelnio@pop-3.iastate.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0b19 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 12:55:56 -0600 To: , Adam Guevara From: Jeff Zelnio Subject: Re: FRIDAY!!!!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 09:31 AM 11/1/96 -0800, TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com wrote: > >Hmm, one other kwestion: > >Where is Tweekin Records? It's been awhile since I've been to a >Wicked... Tweekin is right on haight street, between filmore and the next street up da haight (pierce??). but its on the left side if your going up the street, with a yellow sign(or it a building? I don't live in Sf now, hard to remember places :)) but you need to walk down some steps to get in there :) peace & happyvibes -jEFF From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 11:43:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA03123; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:43:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA02987; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:42:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.32.185.239] (emf-39.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.185.239]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA31092 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:42:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:42:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: miketien@uclink4.berkeley.edu (mike le) Subject: KARMA tonite!!!! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk =) =) =) HOPE TO SEE ALL THE BEAUTIFUL SMILES AT KARMA TONITE TO SHOW OUR APPRECIATION FOR PACIFIC/SUNSET INFO # 415-908-6726 =) =) =) mike From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 11:51:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA04009; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:51:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA04004; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scarab@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27510; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:50:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:50:43 -0800 (PST) From: KaySEE To: Jondabomb@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Dream some true! In-Reply-To: <961101134110_1913989481@emout10.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 1 Nov 1996 Jondabomb@aol.com wrote: > I would just like to say that last night, I spun at Spirit and a personal How was that party anyways? Any reviews? -kc From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 12:16:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA07308; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA07301; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:16:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id MAA28756; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:16:48 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:16:48 -0800 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199611012016.MAA28756@netcom17.netcom.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Halloween's over... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk but the weekend's just begun! :) w0w, Castro street last night was where the fun was at! so much to see, so much craziness. It was probably the first time since Burning Man that I've seen a person in a kangaroo suit dancing alongside a drag queen in a drum circle... And thank Bob for the Civic Center party; it really helped to filter out the evil, drunk, annoying, out-of- control people from the Castro (we encountered them on the bus and decided to skip the Civic Center stop). I love Halloween... and I'm sad to see it's over... But tonight is Mantra! great lineup, goa trance, and Chai tea... Need I say more? Look for the angel wings... they'll be making their final appearance in an attempt to drag out the Halloween spirit as long as possible ;) Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com saturn5@cyborganic.net | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-626-5074 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 12:28:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA08419; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:28:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA08413; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:28:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.178.41.41] ([205.178.41.41]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with ESMTP id MAA00726 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:27:19 -0800 X-Sender: branka@pop.sirius.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:27:29 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: *B* Subject: VERY NRR - joke Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk MonacoOk, these two aliens came down and landed at this gas station.. they got out and the first alien pointed his gun at a gas pump.. He said "Take me to your leader.." and the gas pump (of course) said nothing.. So the second alien said "lay off man, that is one bad ass mother fucker.." and the first alien said again "Take me to your leader!!!" and the second alien is sitting there and saying "man we are gonna get in trouble.. that is one bad ass mother fucker.." so the first alien gets pissed and pulls the trigger.. BOOOOMMM!!! A while later the aliens wake up and they got blown a bout 1 1/2 miles away or someshit.. so the first alien says "How did you know he was such a bad ass?" and the second alien says "Anyone that can wrap their dick around thier waste twice and stick it in their ear is one bad ass mother fucker!!!" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 12:43:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA09749; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:43:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA09732; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:43:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.131.98] (mg131-098.ricochet.net [204.179.131.98]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA19987; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:40:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611012040.MAA19987@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: Soapbox, October 1996 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 96 12:47:06 -0000 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi All, Hope you do mind this. I'd lik to announce the October issue of soapbox is now finalized, and can be found at . Lots of 3D work this last month, as well as another piece by KaySEE. The general soapbox URL is < Thanks for your readership... deeje -------------------------------------------------------------------------- deeje cooley Journeyman Software -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 12:51:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA10487; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:51:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA10481; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:51:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA05523 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA13437 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:48:35 -0800 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199611012048.MAA13437@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: something awesome To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:48:34 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey everybody, I jsut talked to Averil (sp?) who is organizing the Celtic new year/winter solstice celebration going on down south near Yosemite this weekend. it sounds really awesome...two soundsystems- one for trance in a heated warehouse, and one for ambient, featuring one of my fave djs: Felix! 415-273-1845 For those of you that know Bill and Gaby- Averil met them in Thailand and gave her my number...what a trip! love, ann From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 13:13:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA12705; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:13:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA12697; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:13:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (raygun@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03349; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:12:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:12:34 -0800 (PST) From: Reagan Reid To: Ann Elizabeth Loraine cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: something awesome In-Reply-To: <199611012048.MAA13437@uclink.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Bill and Gaby!!!! How are they doing anyway???? Do you know around when they will be coming back Ann? Reagan On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Ann Elizabeth Loraine wrote: > Hey everybody, > > I jsut talked to Averil (sp?) who is organizing the Celtic new year/winter > solstice celebration going on down south near Yosemite this weekend. it > sounds really awesome...two soundsystems- one for trance in a heated > warehouse, and one for ambient, featuring one of my fave djs: Felix! > > 415-273-1845 > > For those of you that know Bill and Gaby- Averil met them in Thailand and > gave her my number...what a trip! > > love, > > ann > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 13:16:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA13087; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:16:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA13040; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:15:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.zocalo.net (mail2.zocalo.net [157.22.1.18]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA00444 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:17:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from zocalo.net (zocalo.net [157.22.1.7]) by mail.zocalo.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09812 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:21:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from niles.com (niles.com [157.22.229.1]) by zocalo.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA04216 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:14:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [157.22.229.127] by niles.com with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1b2d4); Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:14:23 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:20:54 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: peter@niles.com (Customer Service) Subject: Kharma (BPSEP: Blatantly promoting someone else's party) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey there kiddos! I hope everyone out there had a nice Hallowe'en, didn't get too loaded, and has enough vitamin C to get them through the weekend. I just wanted to let y'all know that tonight, that loveable hooligan Thomas Trouble is having a party in honor of Pacific, the guys who've been giving us the free Sunset parties every Sunday. The intention is to show our appreciation of the Sunset crew's unending selflessness, and help them repair and replace equipment they've been burning out all summer with their spacey trancey thumping. This will be a 100% benefit party. (Minus, of course, 94% of the profits, which will be given to the chillroom DJ's in restitution for all the ambient dj's of the world who have gone unpaid. ;o) Here's the line-up as I know it: on the main dance floor: Galen, Solar, Thomas Trouble, Andrew Rawnsley, Ethan, Alex, Monte, John Howard (TBC) (Howard might have already been confirmed by now, I'm not sure) jungle/breakbeat: Professor Smith all by his lonesome outdoor ambient: BoomFidget and JustSin spinning your favorite '80's dance hits, in the tradition of The Edge Nightclub in Palo Alto. Joke. The party will be in a beautiful spot in the central part of the East Bay (and by beautiful, I *don't* mean a nice looking warehouse surrounded by pretty barbed wire and attractive shipyard cranes in west oakland. This spot is very pleasing to the palate, in a clean and safe area) For those of you who have been suspicious of some of the benefit parties thrown earlier this fall, I'll see if I can pull some strings to have Thomas' accountant hand out spreadsheets at the exit door ;o) I'll be the geek in the necktie mixing the Grateful Dead with Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings. Hope to see you there, and thanks in advance for not beating me up. S.L.U.R.P., b))merang From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 13:40:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA15035; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:40:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA15026; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv3.apple.com (A17-128-100-121.apple.com [17.128.100.121]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA22270 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:39:42 -0800 Received: from [17.221.21.117] (greej2.apple.com [17.221.21.117]) by scv3.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA33254 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:41:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199611012141.NAA33254@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Re: VERY NRR - "joke" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 96 13:41:17 -0000 x-sender: green2@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Jason Green To: "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk "Ok, these two aliens came down and landed at this gas station.. they got out and the first alien pointed his gun at a gas pump.. He said "Take me to your leader.." and the gas pump (of course) said nothing.. So the second alien said "lay off man, that is one bad ass mother fucker.." and the first alien said again "Take me to your leader!!!" and the second alien is sitting there and saying "man we are gonna get in trouble.. that is one bad ass mother fucker.." so the first alien gets pissed and pulls the trigger.. BOOOOMMM!!! A while later the aliens wake up and they got blown a bout 1 1/2 miles away or someshit.. so the first alien says "How did you know he was such a bad ass?" and the second alien says "Anyone that can wrap their dick around thier waste twice and stick it in their ear is one bad ass mother fucker!!!" --- JOKE TRANSLATION: Lame, gutteral, not funny whatsoever, and overall a complete waste of people's mental energy. "Yeah! More dick jokes!" Where are we? Third grade? I mean COME ON!!! Now I guess is when I get flamed and told that it was marked NRR, and I should have known better, blah, blah. I just thought that people's imaginations could have yielded something SLIGHTLY more intellectual, that's all. Sorry for bitching... _jason_ Awaiting the SFRAVES flame onslaught... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 13:54:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA16369; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:54:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA16356; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.131.98] (mg131-098.ricochet.net [204.179.131.98]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26690 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:51:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611012151.NAA26690@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: Re: VERY NRR - "joke" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 96 13:58:42 -0000 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: "SFRaves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >JOKE TRANSLATION: Lame, gutteral, not funny whatsoever, and overall a >complete waste of people's mental energy. >"Yeah! More dick jokes!" Where are we? Third grade? I mean COME ON!!! >Now I guess is when I get flamed and told that it was marked NRR, and I >should have known better, blah, blah. I just thought that people's >imaginations could have yielded something SLIGHTLY more intellectual, >that's all. >Sorry for bitching... >_jason_ >Awaiting the SFRAVES flame onslaught... > Somebody needs a hug! peace, deeje -------------------------------------------------------------------------- deeje cooley Journeyman Software -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 14:03:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA17390; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:03:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA17383; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:03:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id OAA15956; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:03:18 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:03:18 -0800 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199611012203.OAA15956@netcom17.netcom.com> To: deeje@pobox.com CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-reply-to: <199611012151.NAA26690@rgate.metricom.com> (message from deeje cooley on Fri, 1 Nov 96 13:58:42 -0000) Subject: Re: VERY NRR - "joke" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Date: Fri, 1 Nov 96 13:58:42 -0000 > From: deeje cooley > > >JOKE TRANSLATION: Lame, gutteral, not funny whatsoever, and overall a > >complete waste of people's mental energy. > >"Yeah! More dick jokes!" Where are we? Third grade? I mean COME ON!!! > >Now I guess is when I get flamed and told that it was marked NRR, and I > >should have known better, blah, blah. I just thought that people's > >imaginations could have yielded something SLIGHTLY more intellectual, > >that's all. > >Sorry for bitching... > >_jason_ > >Awaiting the SFRAVES flame onslaught... > > > > Somebody needs a hug! > > peace, > > deeje > Or a nap... Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com saturn5@cyborganic.net | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-626-5074 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 14:06:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA17718; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from holonet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA17709; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:06:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from impactsf (root@localhost) by holonet.net with UUCP id OAA05027; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:06:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199611012206.OAA05027@holonet.net> Received: by impactsf.com (Claris OfficeMail 1.0) with SMTP; Fri, 01 Nov 1996 13:26:41 -0800 From: "Andre Lucero" Subject: Re: 7-11 and food/drinks at "raves" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 96 13:26:37 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 To: "knucklehead" , "Hungry Hungry Hippos" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >That's actually not hard to do. You just have to get something like those >food wagens you see and lunch time in parking lots or at street corners, >the RV sorta looking things. This is a great idea, but not a new one. The first time I saw this was at Grape Ape/Millenium a few years back (where incidentally I heard Andrew Weatheral (808 State) spin -- *DAMN*). They had Hot Dogs, Tofu Dogs, Fountain Sodas, Espresso, Juices, etc... It wasn't terribly cheap, but it's probably the best thing for you that you could spend your money on at a party. Incidentally, that location on Jerold St. (the rave cafe) sold veggie burgers (: Homemade patties!!! :) all night long. Last time I went there I ate 2 *oink*. At an all night party, some people forget how important it is to eat. It used to be more common to see free fruit or food vendors at parties (at least in So Cal), but I guess less people are into providing such a service. Don't get me wrong, it still exists...it's just harder to find. So, pack a sack lunch & hope for ins-n-outs. - Dre ************************************************ Galactic Uber-Pimp of the )))Vibra Zone((( ************************************************ Sonic Mood Enhancement and Basic Love Vibrations for all my subjects...all the time From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 14:11:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA18274; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:11:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA18261; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:11:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.humboldt.edu by axe.humboldt.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #17164) id <0E07PN30100JQA@axe.humboldt.edu>; Fri, 01 Nov 1996 14:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 14:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Kevin O'Neal" Subject: Re: FTT: Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.... In-reply-to: To: Funky Tekno Tribe Sound System Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Thank you for the explaination. I appreciate your follow up to our criticism! :) -Kevin- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 14:14:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA18676; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:14:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA18666; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:14:54 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id RAA10218; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:14:50 -0500 Received: from by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB19619; Fri, 1 Nov 96 14:14:48 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 27A84600; Fri, 1 Nov 96 15:14:40 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:10:48 -0800 Message-Id: <27A84600.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re[2]: VERY NRR - "joke" To: SuperDuperRavers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk it was marked nrr, you should have known better blah blah blah wooosh (flame sound) d ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Now I guess is when I get flamed and told that it was marked NRR, and I should have known better, blah, blah. Awaiting the SFRAVES flame onslaught... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 14:33:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA20886; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:33:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA20870; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:32:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17948; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA846887947; Fri, 01 Nov 96 14:23:49 pst Date: Fri, 01 Nov 96 14:23:49 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9610018468.AA846887947@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, green2@apple.com Subject: Re: to > Re: VERY NRR - "joke" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Feeling a tad negative today? The joke was sorta funny, but the reply was sad. ========================================================================== FLAME FORM ========================================================================== ) ( ( ( ( ) () @@ ) (( ( ( ( )( @@ ( )) ) ( ( ( ( ()( /---\ (()( ( _______ ) ) )(@ !O O! )@@ ( ) ) ) < ____) ) ( ( )( ()@ \ o / (@@@@@ ( ()( ) /--| |( o| ( ) ) ((@@(@@ !o! @@@@(@@@@@)() ( | > \___| ) ( @)@@)@ /---\-/---\ )@@@@@()( ) | /---------+ (@@@@)@@@( // /-----\ \\ @@@)@@@@@( | | \ =========______/|@@@@@@@@@@@@@(@@@ // @ /---\ @ \\ @(@@@(@@@ | \ \\=========------\|@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ O @@@ /-\ @@@ O@@(@@)@@ @ | \ \----+--\-))) @@@@@@@@@@ !! @@@@ % @@@@ !! @@)@@@ .. | |\______|_)))/ . @@@@@@ !! @@ /---\ @@ !! @@(@@@ @ \__========== * . @@ /MM /\O O/\ MM\ @@@@@@@. | |-\ \ ( . @ !!! !! \-/ !! !!! @@@@@ . | | \ \ ) . . @@@@ !! !! .(. @. .. . | | \ \ ( / .( . \)). ( |O )( O! @@@@ . ) | | / / ) ( )). (( .) !! ((( !! @@ (. ((. . | | / / () )) )) .( ( ( ) ). ( !! )( !! ) (( )) .. | |_< / ( ) ( ( ) ) (( ) )).) ((/ | ( | \( )) ((. ). ____<_____\\__\__(___)_))_((_(____))__(_(___.oooO_____Oooo.(_(_)_)((_ ========================================================================== Dear: [ ] Clueless Newbie [ ] AOLer/Euronetter/PIer [x] Asshole [x] Loser [ ] Me too er [ ] Pervert [ ] Geek [ ] Spammer [ ] Nerd [ ] Elvis [ ] Fed [ ] Freak [x] FLAMENET [x] Other: Unbearably self-righteous person You Are Being Flamed Because: [ ] You posted a "test" in a newsgroup other than alt.test/nl.test [ ] You posted warez in pieces LESS than 5000 lines [ ] You posted a binary in a non-binaries group [x] You quoted an ENTIRE post in your reply [ ] You continued a long, stupid thread [ ] You started an off-topic thread [ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message [ ] You said "me too" to something [ ] You don't know which group to post in [x] You suck [ ] You brag about things that never happened [ ] Your sig/alias/server sucks [x] You posted something totally uninteresting [ ] You crossposted [ ] You posted a message all written in CAPS [ ] You posted racism shit [x] I don't like your tone of voice [ ] I think you might be a fed To Repent, You Must: [ ] Give up your AOL/Euronet/Planet Internet account [x] Bust up your modem with a hammer and eat it [x] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor [x] Actually post something relevant [ ] Read the f****** FAQ [x] Be Pat Buchanan's love slave [x] Be the guest of honor in alt.flame for a month [x] Apologize to everybody in this mailing list:sfraves@hyperreal.com [ ] Post your tests to alt.test/nl.test In Closing, I'd Like to Say: [ ] Blow me [ ] Get a life [ ] Never post again [ ] I pity your dog [ ] Go to hell [ ] I think your IQ must be 7 [ ] Take your s*** somewhere else [ ] Learn to post or f*** off [ ] Do us all a favor and jump into some industrial equipment [ ] See how far your tongue will fit into the electric outlet [x] All of the above End of Flame. Have a nice day. ========================================================================== From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 14:56:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA22638; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:56:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA22626; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from Friley126.IASTATE.EDU (friley126.res.iastate.edu [129.186.78.126]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10403; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:56:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0b19.32.19961101165636.00684f04@pop-3.iastate.edu> X-Sender: jzelnio@pop-3.iastate.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0b19 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 16:56:38 -0600 To: Jason Green , "sfraves" From: Jeff Zelnio Subject: Re: VERY NRR - "joke" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I thought it was funny as hell :) But is ims is an ignant iowan :-) peace & happytimes -jEFF At 01:41 PM 11/1/96 -0000, Jason Green wrote: >"Ok, these two aliens came down and landed at this gas station.. they >got out and the first alien pointed his gun at a gas pump.. He said >"Take me to your leader.." and the gas pump (of course) said nothing.. >So the second alien said "lay off man, that is one bad ass mother >fucker.." and the first alien said again "Take me to your leader!!!" >and the second alien is sitting there and saying "man we are gonna get >in trouble.. that is one bad ass mother fucker.." so the first alien >gets pissed and pulls the trigger.. BOOOOMMM!!! A while later the >aliens wake up and they got blown a bout 1 1/2 miles away or >someshit.. so the first alien says "How did you know he was such a bad >ass?" and the second alien says "Anyone that can wrap their dick >around thier waste twice and stick it in their ear is one bad ass >mother fucker!!!" >--- >JOKE TRANSLATION: Lame, gutteral, not funny whatsoever, and overall a >complete waste of people's mental energy. >"Yeah! More dick jokes!" Where are we? Third grade? I mean COME ON!!! >Now I guess is when I get flamed and told that it was marked NRR, and I >should have known better, blah, blah. I just thought that people's >imaginations could have yielded something SLIGHTLY more intellectual, >that's all. >Sorry for bitching... >_jason_ >Awaiting the SFRAVES flame onslaught... > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 14:57:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA22711; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA22702; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:57:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BBC805.AB2FD150@misnt1.rely.com>; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:02:15 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" , "'Andy Wyszkowski'" Subject: RE: to > Re: VERY NRR - "joke" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:02:12 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello, I'd just like to say that on the bright side of things: That was some kick ass ASCII artwork with the flame thrower.... ---Adam (whose two posts -a -day limit has been reached) > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 15:20:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA24590; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:20:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail3.exodus.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA24583; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:20:39 -0800 (PST) From: elizabeth_o'connor@ccmail.rsco.com Received: from ccmail.rsco.com ([206.79.48.5]) by mail3.exodus.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA19716 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:19:57 -0800 Received: from ccMail by ccmail.rsco.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA846890385; Fri, 01 Nov 96 15:18:39 PST Date: Fri, 01 Nov 96 15:18:39 PST Message-Id: <9610018468.AA846890385@ccmail.rsco.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: /\/\/\SAMHAIN/\/\/\ Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk So who's going?? What's everyone bringing?? (\/) \/ Liz. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 15:39:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA26234; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:39:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from yam.tenetwork.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA26225; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:39:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from Feynman.tenetwork.com (feynman.tenetwork.com [10.10.2.99]) by yam.tenetwork.com (8.7.6/8.7.2) with SMTP id PAA07357; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:33:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <327A98C9.29C2@ten.net> Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 16:41:45 -0800 From: Pengo Reply-To: Pengo@ten.net Organization: Pengo Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com CC: Hughdhyana@aol.com Subject: Re: My Problem With PLUR... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > The under ground is always talking about vibe. I believe that we can >take the power that we create in terms of a good vibe to transform the >world. It doesn't have to remain within the confines of our particular >sociological strata. I guarantee you this will happen. Raves right now are mostly attended by youths/young adults. All these people who have expierenced the vibe will grow up like everyone else and become mothers, fathers, doctors, politicans, teachers, ect. This is when the true test of the integrety of the vibe will happen. As with all things in life, what happens to you now will affect how you behave later. The question is: How/Will something like PLUR affect the desicions of people in 5 Years? 10? 40? What are the LONG TERM implications of the vibe? Will it fade out, like an echo in a cave? Or is it a chain reaction, like the chaotician's "Butterfly effect"? There will always be "Underground Parties". But people come and go from within the sociological strata. People change jobs, homes, lifestyles. Will what they expierence now stay with them later on in the future? I don't know the anwsers to these questions. But I do know that these questions MUST stay in the forefront of our mind when we disscuss how PLUR and the vibe (are they not one and the same?) will affect our society. -=Pengo=- Blake "Pengo" Merriam Would be bumpersticker: "Ravers do it all night." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 15:40:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA26339; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:40:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA26329; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:40:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.131.98] (mg131-098.ricochet.net [204.179.131.98]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA06515 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:38:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611012338.PAA06515@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: Re: /\/\/\SAMHAIN/\/\/\ Date: Fri, 1 Nov 96 15:44:59 -0000 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: "SFRaves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Subject: /\/\/\SAMHAIN/\/\/\ >Sent: 11/1/96 11:17p >Received: 11/1/96 3:39p >From: elizabeth_o'connor@ccmail.rsco.com >To: SFRaves, sfraves@hyperreal.com > > So who's going?? What's everyone bringing?? > > (\/) > \/ Liz. I'm going, along with some drums, and lots of candy! deeje -------------------------------------------------------------------------- deeje cooley Journeyman Software -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 15:48:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA27062; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:48:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA27053; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:48:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15057 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:44:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.86.235.114] (lesliea.vip.best.com [206.86.235.114]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA29808 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:44:01 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:44:01 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lesliea@best.com (Leslie Ayres) Subject: Spirit and: Dream some true! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I just want everyone to know Jonathan was the shit, played some awesome tunes ... he had the first spot, so the room was empty when he started, cuz they hadn't started letting anyone in yet, and suddenly about 25 people walk in together and just started dancing HARD! This was my first party of Vlad's (FeelGood) and I have to say it was SOOO well done! THe space was gorgeous, 2 big dance rooms, no sound bleed, plenty of halls with air circulation where you could still hear the music if you got to hot dancing with the crowd... and a chill space with about 50 mattresses all over the floor! Face painting, cheap water, lots of porta potties.... well planned and executed. Yep, there was a gangsta element for sure ... and even the Fairy RaveMother wasn't immune (got kicked back by a circle dancer that for some reason thought MY dancing spot should be HIS dancing spot ... but of course, I cleared that up in a fat hurry! Shit, don't kick the fucking Fairy RaveMother, little boy! He apologized later) ... But I made some new friends, saw some old ones I don't usually get to spend time with, and stayed until 4:45 a.m. (after arriving at 9 for Jonathan's set) ... bottom line, a great way to spend Halloween! If anyone found my bag of wishes (small red bag with gold embroidery... actually filled with glitter and wishes) I'd love it back unless it found a better home. Love, Leslie Jondabomb said... >I would just like to say that last night, I spun at Spirit and a personal >dream of mine came true! I got to play at a real rave! Thumping sound system >and lots of people dancing!! I even had someone staring at me while I mixed!: >) Thanks Leslie, MHG, Liquid, Justin and Boomerang!!! IM IN HEAVEN!!!!!!:) >Ok Im done rambling!=) > >Jonathan XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -O- -- [8 ._. 8] . _____. . \___/ . From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 16:02:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA28371; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:02:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA28256; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:01:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA08532; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (sidewalk@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA03472; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:59:31 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:59:30 -0800 (PST) From: Timothy McIntyre To: Customer Service cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Kharma (BPSEP: Blatantly promoting someone else's party) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Can someone pass along the info number? Thanks! appreciatively, Timothy On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Customer Service wrote: > Hey there kiddos! > > I hope everyone out there had a nice Hallowe'en, didn't get too loaded, and > has enough vitamin C to get them through the weekend. > > I just wanted to let y'all know that tonight, that loveable hooligan Thomas > Trouble is having a party in honor of Pacific, the guys who've been giving > us the free Sunset parties every Sunday. The intention is to show our > appreciation of the Sunset crew's unending selflessness, and help them > repair and replace equipment they've been burning out all summer with their > spacey trancey thumping. > > This will be a 100% benefit party. (Minus, of course, 94% of the profits, > which will be given to the chillroom DJ's in restitution for all the > ambient dj's of the world who have gone unpaid. ;o) > > > Here's the line-up as I know it: > > on the main dance floor: > Galen, Solar, Thomas Trouble, Andrew Rawnsley, Ethan, Alex, Monte, John > > Howard (TBC) (Howard might have already been confirmed by now, I'm not sure) > > jungle/breakbeat: Professor Smith all by his lonesome > > outdoor ambient: BoomFidget and JustSin spinning your favorite '80's dance > hits, in the tradition of The Edge Nightclub in Palo Alto. Joke. > > The party will be in a beautiful spot in the central part of the East Bay > (and by beautiful, I *don't* mean a nice looking warehouse surrounded by > pretty barbed wire and attractive shipyard cranes in west oakland. This > spot is very pleasing to the palate, in a clean and safe area) > > For those of you who have been suspicious of some of the benefit parties > thrown earlier this fall, I'll see if I can pull some strings to have > Thomas' accountant hand out spreadsheets at the exit door ;o) > > I'll be the geek in the necktie mixing the Grateful Dead with Samuel > Barber's Adagio for Strings. Hope to see you there, and thanks in advance > for not beating me up. > > S.L.U.R.P., > > b))merang > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 16:17:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA00205; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:17:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from guilder.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA00193; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:17:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by guilder.ucdavis.edu (8.8.2/UCD3.8.1) id QAA05026; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:17:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:17:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611020017.QAA05026@guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: elizabeth_o'connor@ccmail.rsco.com From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: /\/\/\SAMHAIN/\/\/\ Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm going! I'm bring a sleeping bag, three synths, two drum machines, couple mic's, didgeridoo, mixer, maybe a few records, couple disks full of songs, smiles, warm cloths, and gloves for playing outside in the cold. Rick At 03:18 PM 11/1/96 PST, you wrote: > So who's going?? What's everyone bringing?? > > (\/) > \/ Liz. > > > "Let me have silence always in the centre of the shouting, that is essential. Let me have silence so that no pin may drop and not be heard, and not a whisper. Escape us for all our spouting, nor the needle scratching upon this gramophone of the circular cosmic spot. Hear me, mark me, learn me, throw the mind's ear open. Shut up the mind's eye, all will be music. What sculpture of sound cannot, what cannot as a fluid token words, that nothing else cannot." -Wyndham Lewis From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 16:55:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA03532; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:55:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.zocalo.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA03527; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:55:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from zocalo.net (zocalo.net [157.22.1.7]) by mail.zocalo.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00678 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:57:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from niles.com (niles.com [157.22.229.1]) by zocalo.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA13547 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:55:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [157.22.229.127] by niles.com with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1b2d4); Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:55:52 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:02:23 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: peter@niles.com (Customer Service) Subject: Kharma info # Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Sorry, gals & guys, I forgot the number for Kharma: 415.908.6726 Once again, it's in the central part of the eastbay. I.E. somewhere between south berkeley and north el cerrito. I could be more specific, but ...heh-heh-heh -peter From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 17:25:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA05886; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:25:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from guilder.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA05871; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:24:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by guilder.ucdavis.edu (8.8.2/UCD3.8.1) id RAA18453; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:24:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:24:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611020124.RAA18453@guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: ez056875@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Matthew Wietzke Subject: Vibe in Sacto (BSP) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk For all of you with nothing to do, or who live in Sacto, come out and support us at VIBE. The djs are Barry Weaver, Jeyson, Simon Apex, Carlos Campos, Rockit, Xpress, DLX, Randell, and Bryun. Tix are $15 at the door. The number is 1.800.971.7079 Hope to see some folks there! _________________________________________________________________________ Matthew S. Wietzke University of California, Davis _________________________________________________________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 17:33:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA06610; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:33:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA06603; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:33:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.106.63.241] (mac8100.zone.org [199.106.63.241]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.6/8.7.5) with SMTP id RAA29224 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:33:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:33:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611020133.RAA29224@mh1.well.com> X-Sender: crunch@206.15.64.22 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: crunch@well.com (John Draper) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Saturday, November 2nd - Triple Horn presents Samhain a 2-day indoor/outdoor festival situated in a secluded locale near Yosemite National Park Dutch, BioJeff, Jeremy Starseed, Felix the Dog, Todd, Adam, Anon, Max Factor and Ivo, DE3, Consciousness Lab (live). Visuals by Astral Scapes. Camping - cabins - food - chai - spirits - drumming - swimming Presale tix at Frequency-8 <------ NOTE: 415.273.1845 Is there any other place to get tickets? Like will they be available at the location. I certainly hate to drive 400 miles out of my way to get the tickets. Crunchman From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 18:25:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA10621; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:25:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from yam.tenetwork.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA10611; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:24:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from Feynman.tenetwork.com (feynman.tenetwork.com [10.10.2.99]) by yam.tenetwork.com (8.7.6/8.7.2) with SMTP id SAA08869 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:18:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <327ABF8B.3AAE@ten.net> Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 19:27:07 -0800 From: Pengo Reply-To: Pengo@ten.net Organization: Pengo Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: See you at Karma! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'd tell you what I'll be wearing but after playing QUAKE for 2hrs straight, all I can think about are my sore hands. I'd go to Samhain, but my car would never make the trip and I've been to busy (or lazy, take your pick) to hook up with a ride. I will be at the Pasific Benefit though. See you out there!!!!! :) -=Pengo=- Blake "Pengo" Merriam Would be bumpersticker: "Ravers do it all night." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 18:26:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA10740; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:26:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom6.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA10733; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:26:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id SAA02434; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:26:41 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199611020226.SAA02434@netcom6.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Kharma info # To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:26:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Customer Service" at Nov 1, 96 06:02:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > Sorry, gals & guys, I forgot the number for Kharma: 415.908.6726 > > Once again, it's in the central part of the eastbay. I.E. somewhere > between south berkeley and north el cerrito. I could be more specific, but > ...heh-heh-heh Actually, that was very helpful - "central part of eastbay" means something south of Oakland to me. Means I can take a nap, drive across the bridge, hang out in Berkeley for awhile. Then call the info number and find out where the map point is ( I guess/hope there's a map point? More chance of getting busted if the admission is payed at the venue )( unless it's the Richmond Civic Center ..., but that can't be....). good night ... Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 18:35:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA11388; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:35:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA11379; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:35:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09358 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:35:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.86.235.114] (lesliea.vip.best.com [206.86.235.114]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA19758 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:35:00 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:35:00 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lesliea@best.com (Leslie Ayres) Subject: Re: VERY NRR - "joke" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Frankly, I liked that joke, laughed LOUD here alone in my house... thanks, Branka ... and anyone else who has funny jokes on the same topic (um, aliens?) can freely share them with me, happens to be one of my favorite subjects! ; ) Leslie (like to keep that little 3rd grader part of me forever I guess!) XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -O- -- [8 ._. 8] . _____. . \___/ . From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 20:23:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA18987; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 20:23:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA18978; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 20:23:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA08639; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 20:23:53 -0800 Received: from eon.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA04201; Fri, 1 Nov 96 21:23:52 PPE From: eric@nit.AirTouch.COM (Eric Pederson) Message-Id: <9611020423.AA04201@nit.AirTouch.COM> Subject: Samhain festival directions (BSP) (fwd) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (SF Ravers List) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 20:23:51 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk From: Ciaran O'Hara > > Directions from San Francisco : > > > Take the 580 east past Altamont, > Then take the LA exit off the 580, > Look for signs for the 132 East toward Modesto > Next, watch out for signs for the 99 south toward Merced. > From Merced, take the 140 East toward Mariposa. > The venue is ..... > 10-11 miles past Mariposa on the 140 East towards Yosemite National > Park. The property is on the left hand side of the road and is marked > with signs and balloons. > > > > Weather : > > The latest word from the cloudbusters/astral travellers at the site > is that runors of snow are wholly untrue.The site is actually at an > elevation 1000 feet below that of Yosemite National Park and the sun > was shining brightly there this afternoon. > > Transport : > > There are still a limited number of seats available on the bus which > will be leaving San Francisco at 10 tomorrow. You can leave a message > on the transport info line. > > > > Samhain information line : 415-273-1845 > Leave your name, number, message of support and someone will try and > get back to you. > Transport, directions and accomadation info : 415-208-1820 > > Looking forward to seeing some of you up there for what should be a > unique spiritual celebration of life, love and unity in a natural > environment. > > > > "Go n'eirigh on bothar leat" (go ni-ree on bo-her lat) > > ( Celtic expression translated from Gaelic.) > > > "May the road rise up to meet you" > > > > > > -- Eric Pederson AirTouch Communications eric.pederson@airtouch.com 510-279-6185 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 20:37:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA20028; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 20:37:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA20008; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 20:36:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu (uclink4.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.155.12]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA00995 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 20:38:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA16926; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 20:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (trose@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA11576; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 20:32:45 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 20:32:44 -0800 (PST) From: Tony Rose To: mike le cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: KARMA tonite!!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hour 56, 6 hours sleep, 18 hours past deadline...have fun for me... :( in sub_check for method... typing dispatch typing new_ typing int_const !!(null)!! actual (null) formal Int typing bool_const actual (null) formal Bool expression typed good.cl:15: dispatch--argument type mismatchgood.cl:15: dispatch--argument type mismatch finished typecheck Compilation halted due to static semantic errors. % * * ** *** ***** ******** ************* Tony Rose UC Berkeley CS http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~trose ************** ******* ***** *** ** * * On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, mike le wrote: > =) > =) > =) > > HOPE TO SEE ALL THE BEAUTIFUL SMILES AT > > KARMA > > TONITE TO SHOW OUR APPRECIATION FOR PACIFIC/SUNSET > > INFO # 415-908-6726 > > > > =) > =) > =) > > mike > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 21:55:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA25379; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 21:55:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA25370; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 21:55:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA02405 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 21:55:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.74.237] (abrams2b.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.74.237]) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA17627 for ; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 21:52:31 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 21:54:42 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Brian Denny) Subject: Ravers Do It All Night (was: Re: My Problem With PLUR... (NRR) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Would be bumpersticker: "Ravers do it all night." so who wants to make sfraves "ravers do it all night" bumperstickers? :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 1 23:48:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA02597; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 23:48:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA02591; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 23:48:34 -0800 (PST) From: Hughdhyana@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA24978 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 02:48:01 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 02:48:01 -0500 Message-ID: <961102024759_1549587434@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: (NRR) I'll Design The Sticker! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I've got Illustrator, I just have to get through mid-terms before I can commit to anything new!! Remind me in a week, then we'll have to find someone with a printing connection. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Nov 2 08:20:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA07303; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 08:20:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from guilder.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA07292; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 08:20:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by guilder.ucdavis.edu (8.8.2/UCD3.8.1) id IAA23360; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 08:20:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 08:20:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611021620.IAA23360@guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Andy Wyszkowski" From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: Re[2]: /\/\/\SAMHAIN/\/\/\ Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Uhhh, I'm bring gloves. Rick At 05:19 PM 11/1/96 pst, you wrote: > I'm a recently born agan vinyl user and I have only one question... > HOW THE FUCK CAN PEOPLE SPIN WITH COLD HANDS???? > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Re: /\/\/\SAMHAIN/\/\/\ >Author: Rick Riffle at smtplink-acs >Date: 11/1/96 4:45 PM > > >I'm going! > >I'm bring a sleeping bag, three synths, two drum machines, couple mic's, >didgeridoo, mixer, maybe a few records, couple disks full of songs, smiles, >warm cloths, and gloves for playing outside in the cold. > >Rick > >At 03:18 PM 11/1/96 PST, you wrote: >> So who's going?? What's everyone bringing?? >> >> (\/) >> \/ Liz. >> >> >> > >"Let me have silence always in the centre of the shouting, that is >essential. Let me have silence so that no pin may drop and not be >heard, and not a whisper. Escape us for all our spouting, nor the >needle scratching upon this gramophone of the circular cosmic spot. >Hear me, mark me, learn me, throw the mind's ear open. Shut up the >mind's eye, all will be music. What sculpture of sound cannot, what >cannot as a fluid token words, that nothing else cannot." > > -Wyndham Lewis > > > > "Let me have silence always in the centre of the shouting, that is essential. Let me have silence so that no pin may drop and not be heard, and not a whisper. Escape us for all our spouting, nor the needle scratching upon this gramophone of the circular cosmic spot. Hear me, mark me, learn me, throw the mind's ear open. Shut up the mind's eye, all will be music. What sculpture of sound cannot, what cannot as a fluid token words, that nothing else cannot." -Wyndham Lewis From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Nov 2 10:27:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA16451; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:27:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA16439; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:27:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA21747; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:27:44 -0800 Received: from ccMail by CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA846959367; Sat, 02 Nov 96 10:27:37 PST Date: Sat, 02 Nov 96 10:27:37 PST From: "Ciaran OHara" Message-Id: <9610028469.AA846959367@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, redact@indigo.ie Subject: Samhain festival directions again.... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Not sure if these directions were already posted,as i was having server prblems last night. Also, could anyone with room in their car private e-mail me so I can hopefully hook up pepole needing transport? Directions from San Francisco : Take the 580 east past Altamont, Then take the LA exit off the 580, Look for signs for the 132 East toward Modesto Next, watch out for signs for the 99 south toward Merced. From Merced, take the 140 East toward Mariposa. The venue is ..... 10-11 miles past Mariposa on the 140 East towards Yosemite National Park. The property is on the left hand side of the road and is marked with signs and balloons. Transport : There are still a limited number of seats available on the bus which will be leaving San Francisco at 10 tomorrow. You can leave a message on the transport info line. Samhain information line : 415-273-1845 Leave your name, number, message of support and someone will try and get back to you. Transport, directions and accomadation info : 415-208-1820 Looking forward to seeing some of you up there for what will be a unique spiritual celebration of life, love and unity in a natural environment. "Go n'eirigh on bothar leat" (go ni-ree on bo-her lat) ( Celtic expression translated from Gaelic.) "May the road rise up to meet you" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Nov 2 10:36:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA17476; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA17471; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:36:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id KAA29344; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:39:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199611021839.KAA29344@precipice.v-site.net> From: "Geoff White" To: Subject: BSP: Underground WICKED tonight! Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:36:55 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The "Day of the Dead" Wicked will take place tonight at an underground location. $15 at the door. 21+. DJs are: Jeno Markie Garth Harvey (UK) call the wicked line @ (415)512-5713 for mappoint info It's on! p.s. you might not want to miss this one as we will be throwing them more infrequently from now on. The space is smaller than King street so get there early. Doors open at 11 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Nov 2 13:19:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA28500; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 13:19:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA28493; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 13:19:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from 206.86.220.227 (bwret.vip.best.com [206.86.220.227]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA20039 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 13:18:48 -0800 Message-ID: <327BACBD.60B5@best.com> Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 13:19:09 -0700 From: Alex X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR: Urban Legendz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well..I guess nothing ever made sense to begin with... -alex > > READ THIS CAREFULLY! It's not what it first appears to be. ;) Craig Shergold is a 10 year old boy who is dying of cancer. Before he dies, he would like to set the world record for receiving the most Neiman-Marcus Cookie Recipes. You can help Craig by sending an irate fax to LEXIS-NEXIS demanding that they remove all traces of your mother's maiden name from their executive washroom wall. They will respond by sending e-mail labeled "goodtimes" to the computer controlling Craig's life support equipment. When Felippe Linz, the technician operating the computer opens this mail, his hard drive will be overwritten with thousands of credit card invoices for $250.00, erasing the last bit of evidence that Hillary was seen on the grassy knoll when JFK was shot, thus allowing world domination by Bill Gates, and his tri-lateral commission cronies who are eating fried peanut butter and banana sandwiches in the black helicopters with Elvis. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Nov 2 14:30:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA03675; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from saclink2.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA03669; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:30:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by saclink2.csus.edu (1.40.112.6/16.2) id AA293103812; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:30:13 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:30:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: (NRR) I'll Design The Sticker! To: Hughdhyana@aol.com Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <961102024759_1549587434@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk And I will gladly purchase several! :):) love, Amy ******* ** ** * * * * * oOOo oOOo * * oOOo oOOo * E.L.F. * oo oo * Are Here Now * * * . . * * ___ * * * * * * From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Nov 2 14:43:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA04609; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:43:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from melvax.sonoma.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA04597; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:43:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from SONOMA.EDU by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8366) id <01IBDH1ZDEVA9I48O6@SONOMA.EDU> for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sat, 02 Nov 1996 14:43:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 14:43:36 -0800 (PST) From: JONAS JONAS JONAS JONAS JONAS Subject: [NRR] Windows 95 problems! [NRR] To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-id: <01IBDH1ZDOIG9I48O6@SONOMA.EDU> X-VMS-To: SMTP%"sfraves@hyperreal.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Friends, Anyone happen to know if there are any known compatibility problems concerning a Cyrix 6x86 166MHz and Windows 95, please email me privately. I was running the August 1995 release of Win without any problems, but OSR2 and OSR3 won't wwork for me. I can install it alright, and then get into Windows to set it all up, but once I have to restart Windows to finish it all...it won't let me in. I get a blank screen. Any ideas? Thanks a lot! reespect, jonas From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Nov 2 16:36:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA12527; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 16:36:58 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: taz.hyperreal.com: majordom set sender to owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com using -f Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA12512; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 16:36:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mh1.well.com (root@mh1.well.com [206.15.64.22]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA05194 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 16:32:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.106.63.241] (mac8100.zone.org [199.106.63.241]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.6/8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA12396; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 16:29:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 16:29:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611030029.QAA12396@mh1.well.com> X-Sender: crunch@206.15.64.22 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Alex From: crunch@well.com (John Draper) Subject: Re: NRR: Urban Legendz Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >READ THIS CAREFULLY! It's not what it first appears to be. ;) > > Craig Shergold is a 10 year old boy who is dying of cancer. Before he dies, > he would like to set the world record for receiving the most Neiman-Marcus > Cookie Recipes. You can help Craig by sending an irate fax to LEXIS-NEXIS > demanding that they remove all traces of your mother's maiden name from their > executive washroom wall. They will respond by sending e-mail labeled > "goodtimes" to the computer controlling Craig's life support equipment. When > Felippe Linz, the technician operating the computer opens this mail, his hard > drive will be overwritten with thousands of credit card invoices for $250.00, > erasing the last bit of evidence that Hillary was seen on the grassy knoll > when JFK was shot, thus allowing world domination by Bill Gates, and his > tri-lateral commission cronies who are eating fried peanut butter and banana > sandwiches in the black helicopters with Elvis. Huh??? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Nov 2 17:16:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA15357; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:16:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA15333; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:16:46 -0800 (PST) From: TeKnODiVa@aol.com Received: from emout11.mail.aol.com (emout11.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.26]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA05327 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:00:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by emout11.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA25561 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 19:56:58 -0500 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 19:56:58 -0500 Message-ID: <961102195657_344558703@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: Urban Legendz Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk My thoughts exactly. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Nov 2 17:17:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA15493; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA15372; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:16:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net (dns2.noc.best.net [206.86.0.21]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA05319 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 16:59:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from natasha.coolware.com (annex23.usfca.edu [138.202.192.123]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA24592 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 16:56:45 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961103005509.00695d4c@best.com> X-Sender: mdpkl@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 16:55:09 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" Subject: Re: NRR: Urban Legendz Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk what about john lennon? where does he fit in? and the disney conspiracy? huh? love- matt At 01:19 PM 11/2/96 -0700, you wrote: >Well..I guess nothing ever made sense to begin with... >-alex >> >> >READ THIS CAREFULLY! It's not what it first appears to be. ;) > > Craig Shergold is a 10 year old boy who is dying of cancer. Before he dies, > he would like to set the world record for receiving the most Neiman-Marcus > Cookie Recipes. You can help Craig by sending an irate fax to LEXIS-NEXIS > demanding that they remove all traces of your mother's maiden name from their > executive washroom wall. They will respond by sending e-mail labeled > "goodtimes" to the computer controlling Craig's life support equipment. When > Felippe Linz, the technician operating the computer opens this mail, his hard > drive will be overwritten with thousands of credit card invoices for $250.00, > erasing the last bit of evidence that Hillary was seen on the grassy knoll > when JFK was shot, thus allowing world domination by Bill Gates, and his > tri-lateral commission cronies who are eating fried peanut butter and banana > sandwiches in the black helicopters with Elvis. > > matthew d. p. k. lanier professional hugger and empath mailto:mdpkl@best.com 415-752-3218 _______ / \ / o o \ | ^ | | | ___ \ \_/ / ___ __(___\ \__ __/ /___)__ (______ \________\ /_________/ ______) (_______ ____________________ _______) (______ / \ ______) (_____/ \_____) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Nov 2 17:38:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA17243; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mom.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA17234; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:38:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (eels-20.ppp.hooked.net [206.80.10.148]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA24365; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:38:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611030138.RAA24365@mom.hooked.net> From: "Mr nStuff" To: "JONAS JONAS JONAS JONAS JONAS" , Subject: Re: [NRR] Windows 95 problems! [NRR] Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:32:20 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk It is a known fact that nothing is fully tested with Cyrix chips. Frankly I don't think that software designers care wether or not there programs work with Cyrix chips. Unless you have changed mother boards aswell, it iz defonetly your processor. But if you really want to run that version of Win95... Slowing your clock speed down to about 133 should fix the problem.. If not. I couldn't amagine it not working with your clock speed set to a 90Mhz CPU. Jeff From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Nov 2 20:46:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA29331; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:46:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from priscilla.ultima.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA29326; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:46:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from priscilla.ultima.org (audiotek@priscilla.ultima.org [140.174.184.225]) by priscilla.ultima.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA20402 for ; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:39:58 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:39:58 -0800 (PST) From: Monty To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Wicked # & or directions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone have the number for the Wicked line? Any info on the location for tonite's party? --Monty From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 01:00:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id BAA13460; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:00:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id BAA13452; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:00:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by rocky.ucdavis.edu (8.8.2/UCD3.7.3) id BAA10564; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:00:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:00:10 -0800 (PST) From: pop-n-fresh X-Sender: szkirb@rocky.ucdavis.edu To: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: Urban Legendz In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961103005509.00695d4c@best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk That's in Book II: the Armageddon On Sat, 2 Nov 1996, matthew d. p. k. lanier wrote: > what about john lennon? where does he fit in? and the disney conspiracy? huh? > > love- > > matt > > At 01:19 PM 11/2/96 -0700, you wrote: > >Well..I guess nothing ever made sense to begin with... > >-alex > >> > >> > >READ THIS CAREFULLY! It's not what it first appears to be. ;) > > > > Craig Shergold is a 10 year old boy who is dying of cancer. Before he dies, > > he would like to set the world record for receiving the most Neiman-Marcus > > Cookie Recipes. You can help Craig by sending an irate fax to LEXIS-NEXIS > > demanding that they remove all traces of your mother's maiden name from their > > executive washroom wall. They will respond by sending e-mail labeled > > "goodtimes" to the computer controlling Craig's life support equipment. When > > Felippe Linz, the technician operating the computer opens this mail, his hard > > drive will be overwritten with thousands of credit card invoices for $250.00, > > erasing the last bit of evidence that Hillary was seen on the grassy knoll > > when JFK was shot, thus allowing world domination by Bill Gates, and his > > tri-lateral commission cronies who are eating fried peanut butter and banana > > sandwiches in the black helicopters with Elvis. > > > > > matthew d. p. k. lanier > professional hugger and empath > mailto:mdpkl@best.com > 415-752-3218 > _______ > / \ > / o o \ > | ^ | > | | > ___ \ \_/ / ___ > __(___\ \__ __/ /___)__ > (______ \________\ /_________/ ______) > (_______ ____________________ _______) > (______ / \ ______) > (_____/ \_____) > > __o John Kirby All I want is a boat and a bike... _x\<,_ jokirby@ucdavis.edu and I'll tour the world _____(_)/_(_)_____ 916.758.5023 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 01:04:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id BAA13685; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:04:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id BAA13681; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id BAA11503; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:04:09 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: star owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:04:08 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto Reply-To: Starchild To: Aryck cc: ConciousRavers Subject: Re: Aryck's Theories of Expanded concious learning techniques. In-Reply-To: <9610242151.AA02302@heald.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear SFRavefriends, My computer tells me that on Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Aryck shared (in part): {interesting insights on different drugs deleted from original post} > MDMA: > I don't like E too much. I'm usually frying when I see people on E > and it makes me think of how fake it makes you. The only good quality about > E is that it makes you very positive, it makes you love your lover even > more, it makes you sorry for every bad thing you've ever done, it makes you > happy to be who you are without any need for any type of change. These are > good things, but, I think that it covers up the reality of everything with a > soft pretty little blanket. It makes ugly people beautiful, it makes dirty > ass wherehouses the best place in the world, it makes people think that > they're a STAR in the biggest show on earth. I watched this girl intently > once, her name was Jenny, she was really nice n all, but she would go, > dance, then come back and act like the whole world was watching her, like > she was picturing roses flying up on stage, people kissing her telling "Good > show", it misled her into thinking that the Deli (upstairs) was this big > happy cloud in which everyone was kissing and hugging and there wasn't a > problem in the world. I guess that could be cool, but I just think that it's > too fake. I know most of us SFRAVERS E fairly often. Shit, thats where we > get most of our ideas of loving one another and all. But It just makes the > world too unreal, and doesn't teach you anything to deal with the real world > logically. But it can strengthen the love between people, and teach you to > be more compassionate towards others. I've eaten E many times (around 25 or > so) which in reality isn't much, I just don't like how it covers things up. > But I'm not saying that it's bad. "I was unhappy because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet." -(author unknown to me) It's a fact of life that everybody sees the world differently, and two people in an identical situation (were such a thing possible) could have two radically different perceptions of their reality, depending upon their individual DNA configurations and life experiences. Maybe MDMA does sometimes make people perceive "dirty ass warehouses" as the best places in the world. Is fully enjoying something while experiencing it the same as covering up reality? Maybe in a sense it is. Many people believe that the partners they are with are the people they were meant to be with, and that they are happier with their partners than they would be with anyone else in the world. Considering the number of people out there, this is very unlikely -- unless you believe so strongly in your present happiness that you make it a reality for yourself. This is not easy, but it's easier on E! 8) For what it's worth, a self-hypnosis tape I have on "how to be happy" advises that the key to being happy is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have, and "upgrading your *wants* to *preferences*." I don't think the happiness we feel on MDMA is any less real than non-drug-induced happiness. All happiness involves "covering up" or ignoring reality in some sense. If you could be aware, right now, of all the torment wracking the minds and bodies of untold millions of human beings across the globe, how could you have the peace of mind to be happy and still retain any of the compassion that makes you human? Yet that suffering is reality; it is only by limiting your awareness of it, by choosing to perceive it as something removed from your reality, rather than part of the larger reality we all in fact share, that you can be happy. Only God, if such a creature exists, could know "the reality of everything." Makes one wonder, can a divine being know all of this and be happy? If happiness and all other emotions are subjective perceptions, wouldn't knowing everything render one perfectly emotionless? But such deep theological questions aside, saying "the only good thing about E is it makes you very positive" seems to me to be missing the whole point, kind of like saying "the only good thing about that restaurant is that the food is delicious." I mean, isn't that the primary consideration? Would you want to take a drug that makes you *less* positive? Would you want to eat in a restaurant with bad food? My own experiences with MDMA have not made me feel that I did not want to change. To the contrary, they have awakened in me a profound *desire* to change, a realization that life can be much better, and that the key to making it better lies inside each of us. Exstasy has increased my motivation to fulfill my highest human potential, something I see as not only a positive goal, but also a logical one. Aryck, what do you consider to be a "logical" way to live? Is it logical to rave? If you feel that Exstasy offers us nothing to "deal with the real world logically," aren't you saying in effect that it's illogical to be happy? I hope this is not your concious philosophy! 8) Much love, <<< Starchild >>> _______________________________________________________________________________ "Be here now" -Ram Dass _______________________________________________________________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 01:39:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id BAA15252; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:39:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id BAA15115; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:39:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dougie@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id BAA12829 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:39:17 -0800 (PST) From: DOUGLAS BJORN ZIMMERMAN Message-Id: <199611030939.BAA12829@pluto.sfsu.edu> Subject: NRR: 303 For Sale To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:39:16 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I have a 303 for sale. I have had it for about a year now with very little use and it was purchased in tokyo, full with manual (in japanese). Serious inquiries only Best Offer. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 01:44:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id BAA15905; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:44:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id BAA15901; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:44:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id BAA13114 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:43:59 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: star owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:43:59 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: SFRavefriends Subject: NRR: Bill Gates' big decision Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Bill Gates expires in a car accident. He finds himself in purgatory, being sized up by St. Peter. "Well, Bill, I'm really confused on this call; I'm not sure whether to send you to Heaven or Hell. After all, you enormously helped society by putting a computer in almost every home in America, yet you also created that ghastly Windows '95. I'm going to do something I've never done before in your case; I'm going to let you decide where you want to go." Bill replied, "well, what's the difference between the two?" St. Peter said, "I'm willing to let you visit both places briefly, if it will help your decision." "Fine, but where should I go first?" "I'll leave that up to you." "Okay then," said Bill, "Let's try Hell first." So Bill went to Hell. It was a beautiful, clean, sandy beach with clear waters and lots of bikini-clad women running around, playing in the water, laughing and frolicking about. The sun was shining; the temperature perfect. He was very pleased. "This is great!" he told St. Peter. "If this is hell, I REALLY want to see heaven!""Fine," said St. Peter, and off they went. Heaven was a place high in the clouds, with angels drifting about, playing harps and singing. It was nice, but not as enticing as Hell. Bill thought for a quick minute, and rendered his decision. "Hmmm. I think I'd prefer Hell," he told St. Peter. "Fine," retorted St. Peter, "as you desire." So Bill Gates went to Hell. Two weeks later, St. Peter decided to check on the late billionaire to see how he was doing in Hell. When he got there, he found Bill, shackled to a wall, screaming amongst hot flames in dark caves, being burned and tortured by demons. "How's everything going?" he asked Bill. Bill responded, with his voice filled with anguish and disappointment, "This is awful! This is nothing like the Hell I visited two weeks ago! I can't believe this is happening! What happened to that other place, with the beautiful beaches, the scantily-clad women playing in the water?!???" "That was a demo," replied St. Peter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 01:47:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id BAA16063; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:47:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id BAA16059; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id BAA13333; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:47:27 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: star owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:47:27 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: Alex cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: Urban Legendz In-Reply-To: <327BACBD.60B5@best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sat, 2 Nov 1996, Alex wrote: > Well..I guess nothing ever made sense to begin with... > -alex > > > > > READ THIS CAREFULLY! It's not what it first appears to be. ;) > > Craig Shergold is a 10 year old boy who is dying of cancer. Before he dies, > he would like to set the world record for receiving the most Neiman-Marcus > Cookie Recipes. You can help Craig by sending an irate fax to LEXIS-NEXIS > demanding that they remove all traces of your mother's maiden name from their > executive washroom wall. They will respond by sending e-mail labeled > "goodtimes" to the computer controlling Craig's life support equipment. When > Felippe Linz, the technician operating the computer opens this mail, his hard > drive will be overwritten with thousands of credit card invoices for $250.00, > erasing the last bit of evidence that Hillary was seen on the grassy knoll > when JFK was shot, thus allowing world domination by Bill Gates, and his > tri-lateral commission cronies who are eating fried peanut butter and banana > sandwiches in the black helicopters with Elvis. For more information about how to respond, please call (804) 555-HAHA. (giggle), <<< Starchild >>> ;) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 03:33:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id DAA25134; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 03:33:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from kzsu.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id DAA25130; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 03:33:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dougm@localhost) by kzsu.Stanford.EDU (8.7.3/8.6.9) id DAA20234 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 03:33:24 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Miller (J.C.) Message-Id: <199611031133.DAA20234@kzsu.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Re: NRR: Urban Legendz To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 03:33:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <961102195657_344558703@emout11.mail.aol.com> from "TeKnODiVa@aol.com" at Nov 2, 96 07:56:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Truly a classic in the works. This tops off a wonderful evening. Thanks, and blessed be. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 09:12:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA12088; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 09:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA12076; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 09:12:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA05093; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 09:12:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [136.152.74.237] (abrams2b.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.74.237]) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA24505; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 09:07:51 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 09:10:03 -0800 To: Starchild From: bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Brian Denny) Subject: Re: Aryck's Theories of Expanded concious learning techniques. Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Starchild wrote: > My own experiences with MDMA have not made me feel that I did not >want to change. To the contrary, they have awakened in me a profound >*desire* to change, a realization that life can be much better, and that >the key to making it better lies inside each of us. E has lowered my (way-too-high) social inhibitions, and helped me realize how these internal hangups work so i can move past them. it has helped me meet some wonderful people who became close friends later, under sober circumstances. it has sharpened my awareness of the lack of peace and love in the world and how i can help change that situation... like any drug, it should not be thought of as an end in itself but as a (partial) means. E does not give me an artificial sense of happiness. if i'm unhappy and i take E, it _at best_ makes me realize why i'm unhappy and how i might change that, and at worst, makes me feel like shit. > Aryck, what do you consider to be a "logical" way to live? Is >it logical to rave? If you feel that Exstasy offers us nothing to "deal >with the real world logically," aren't you saying in effect that it's >illogical to be happy? I hope this is not your concious philosophy! 8) a psychiatrist wrote an article a while back on "happiness as a psychological disorder"... putting forth arguments as to how happiness was not a normal state of mind, etc. it kind of fits in with your comments on shutting out all of the misery in the world... it was an interesting idea, but i think (having taken E and all :) that happiness should be considered (at least potentially) a normal state of existence. [geez, i'm groggy, i hope this post doesn't come out too weird...] love, brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 13:26:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA01897; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:26:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay7.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA01882; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:26:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from heald.edu by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbogz02691; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:26:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp100.hayward.heald.edu by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA18568; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:32:37 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:32:36 -0800 Message-Id: <9611032132.AA18568@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Aryck Subject: SPIRIT, and some other stuff Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, I disagree on some other's posts about thursday. I actually didn't have a good time at all (partly cuz of me and my girlfriend having troubles). I was getting pissed off when every time I'd try to dance, I'd have to eventually stop because of people walking right into the center of where I was gettin down, and they'd just stand there??? Every little place I looked, I saw "KIDS" walking around with 40's, drunk ass losers, people staring others down, and someone hitting on my girlfriend and her friend. There was not enough room or ventilation for all the people that were there. My shoes are basically dead now cuz of the amount of sludge from the dance floors that's made it's home on them. The floors were soooooooo slippery, I actually almost fell a few times (and usually a little slick is a good thing for me to dance on). It really pissed me off when I brought a big ol water bottle that I got for a dollar with me (it wasn't opened yet), and the people at the door said that I couldn't take it in with me??? Then they took it from me and said that they'll just use it in case someone od's or something. . . DICKS!!!! There were tons of people on drugs, I didn't meet one other person who wasn't besides me, my girlfriend, and Jenny. Another little thought: It's amazing how some people have totally screwed up their lives with drugs n all. I knew a few girls that were there, a couple of them , are like 14. THose girls have f***** themselves soooo hard on drugs, they're like permanently spaced. They were on shrooms and roaming abound with such a spoacey look in their eyes , they actually normally look like that. It's cute n all, but I feel sorry for people like that cuz their brain isn't even close to full development yet, and they've already destroyed half of it. Sad, sad, sad. . . I met one or two nice people. Leslie helped me out with my girlfriend (or at least showed me how to get better). I swear that I was going to get into a fight with someone (but I wouldn't have started it). Everything cost money (except the bathrooms and parking). They did have a lot of blacklights, which was cool. I pretty much didn't like it because of most of the people there. But seriously, anyone who e'd that night, tell us how your night was. . . just curious. I don't mean to sound un-nice or nuthin. Have a good week everyone, more rain, more rain, and more rain. . . SNow, SNow, SNow, too. . . Give it all a "natural" smile :) not an :e) Y'know, I really look up to people who can have fun without help from whatever, a friend (who's having a problem with steroids) actually told me yesterday that you can't have fun unless you drink. And he's bringing down my other friend Jason (who I haven't seen totally sober for like 2-3 months). What's this world coming to. Even my home town is remeniscent of most of Oakland, and it used to be such a nice place to live. . . Aryck >Get a good job, make a lot of money, and get out of this crazy place!< From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 13:48:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA03920; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:48:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA03915; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:48:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.32.91.95] (mmf25.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.91.95]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA29097; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:48:29 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:48:28 -0800 To: bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Brian Denny) From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: Ravers Do It All Night (was: Re: My Problem With PLUR... (NRR) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >>Would be bumpersticker: "Ravers do it all night." > >so who wants to make sfraves "ravers do it all night" bumperstickers? I'll do it! (all night =)) -m. ---> B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S <----------------------------- michal migurski tel:510.548.3225 lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu www.cyborganic.com/people/lachim lachim@cyborganic.net ---------------> MASS-PRODUCED GRAPHICS FOR A BETTER TOMMORROW <--- As a general rule, don't solve puzzles that open portals to Hell. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 13:56:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA04505; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:56:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA04477; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:56:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.32.91.95] (mmf25.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.91.95]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA31937 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:56:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:56:20 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: k a r m a Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk the grand-but-short tradition of c.z. raves continues... Well, the music was ON, the decorations were SOOPER, the hard trance was RAGIN' and the crowd was DECENT but why-oh-why did the cops have to shut the shit down while Ethan was going off???? OH well, at least Thomas had the gall to keep spinning his unique blend of trance favorites (accent!! good lord that song is dope! =) 'til the sweet foggy morning... One Question: Why are all the decorations and speakers and amps and shit still at my house???? and where is Thomas??? I swear, all that crap's gonna get jacked by at least one of the 125 people who have the keys to the front door if he doesn't start returning messages soon... take care, -m. ---> B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S <----------------------------- michal migurski tel:510.548.3225 lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu www.cyborganic.com/people/lachim lachim@cyborganic.net ---------------> MASS-PRODUCED GRAPHICS FOR A BETTER TOMMORROW <--- As a general rule, don't solve puzzles that open portals to Hell. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 15:31:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA11673; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 15:31:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucsu.Colorado.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA11659; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 15:30:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (tanakad@localhost) by ucsu.Colorado.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3/CNS-4.0p) with SMTP id QAA06744 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:30:55 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:30:55 -0700 (MST) From: Debbie To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: 6 up Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk So i went to Technique last night and had a semi decent time. At about three thirty I sat down with my friends and butt watched for a while (Not really, but thats all you can see from that perspective). Anyway I noticed a cop walking by just jammin to the music in his own little way, and having never seen such an amazing sight before I reached out and grabbed his hand on impluse. He turned around smiled and squeezed my hand and proceeded towards the DJ. I just have one thing to say about this incident (keeping in mind that I am often prejudiced towards cops). What is probably the biggest danger to the rave world? busted parties? Everything each one of us does while at a party reflects on everyone else, so when spreading the vibe around, please don't discriminate. luv yuz --debbie From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 16:40:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA18080; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:40:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA18074; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:40:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from inanna.ccnet.com [207.171.196.187] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKD5T-0001lW-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:40:23 -0800 Message-ID: <327D3B68.750A@slip.net> Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 16:40:08 -0800 From: "inanna@slip.net" Reply-To: inanna@slip.net Organization: The Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SF Raves Mailing List Subject: You're invited to Monday Night Dinner 8:30 pm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Monday Night Dinner 8:30 pm, a different cuisine and location each week. A haphazard collection of ravers who get together to properly wind down their weekend; or; rev their engines for the coming week of parties. Everyone who reads this is welcome to come. We will meet this week at: Coriya (8:30 pm) phone(415) 387-7888 at 852 Clement Street, (at 10th Ave.,)San Francisco Description: Korean cuisine Prices: Inexpensive, entrees under $7 You're the chef at this immensely popular restaurant. Choose from an extensive ingredient buffet and cook the goodies at your table. Vegetarian and vegan friendly! RSVP for a place at the table to inanna@slip.net today From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 17:05:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA20825; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 17:05:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA20818; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 17:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA17454; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 17:05:20 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 17:05:20 -0800 (PST) From: David Lowe To: "inanna@slip.net" cc: SF Raves Mailing List Subject: Re: You're invited to Monday Night Dinner 8:30 pm In-Reply-To: <327D3B68.750A@slip.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Diana! Hey, long time no speak (sort of?) Whatevah! I'll be there for sure this week, okay? So reserve me a table! Take care! On Sun, 3 Nov 1996, inanna@slip.net wrote: > Monday Night Dinner 8:30 pm, a different cuisine and location each week. > > A haphazard collection of ravers who get together to properly wind down > their weekend; or; rev their engines for the coming week of parties. > Everyone who reads this is welcome to come. We will meet this week at: > > Coriya (8:30 pm) phone(415) 387-7888 > at 852 Clement Street, (at 10th Ave.,)San Francisco > > Description: > Korean cuisine > Prices: Inexpensive, entrees under $7 > You're the chef at this immensely popular restaurant. Choose from an > extensive ingredient buffet and cook the goodies at your table. > Vegetarian and vegan friendly! > > RSVP for a place at the table to inanna@slip.net today > : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : : Every picture tells a LIE! : : - The Schwa Corporation : :: fingerprint: 1F E7 D3 24 04 18 72 67 CC E6 66 1B 79 79 CB 3A :: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMn1BSaD2AoV67volAQEbGgf6AsznbnCQuO/+bDaEXPtGIPSuc0HBvA67 igIOaEtOMPI912Lrkk31/nxSGxYWnG1hpaqaiOj0CERHkcsd7N1moBl+U3YYwwDk erCTkvuweWmZqsxj060z4fZJbPJXTH8NiJ7p77KQUd1KHuJF+nUDLIQo/I4/rmUl Z6Nep6KCtP4pQN5UJAsPm90v/ooT7B39tLYSZ5KqX9v5TTuMOheN8V7MKOXSq88F S9drRylW5mK6v82k66eJIKNoa2tTvZFjHhzdDeMqL6Q1mS2ipKFHYLCSUcbbdiKG D4+8e9gzNN4XPLAOpuTTPHvS/CpFqrfGgqA3957yFvuu4n9Sfp6kSw== =oosd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 19:05:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA00222; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 19:05:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from satie.arts.usf.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA00208; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 19:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mstevens@localhost) by satie.arts.usf.edu (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id WAA06192; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 22:07:40 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 22:07:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Melissa Stevenson (ART)" X-Sender: mstevens@satie To: sfraves@hyperreal.com cc: Aryck , ConciousRavers Subject: Re: Aryck's Theories of Expanded concious learning techniques. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I have been listening to all the messages of sfraves for about two weeks. I live very far from San Francisco, Tampa, FL. I joined the list because I love electronic and dance music and I plan to move to San Francisco. The only reason I'm speaking up is because the problems or solutions MDMA offer is some thing that concerns me deeply. I read Aryck's theory and agree w/ him. The problem here in Florida, I've been to events in Jacksonville, Tampa, Miami, and Orlando, is all these REALLY young kids that don't understand moderation. I used to take E all the time at any expense and it just isn't worth it. I have school and work to think about now. I don't understand how some people seem to always be on it. I haven't quit using it, I just don't do it every weekend. I am also concerned about the kids that I don't think belong in the scene because they don't have a good time unless they're on it. I agree that it has opened my mind and heart to others in the scene but I hate it when I see people at a really good event only there because they want to drugs. It disappoints me. I think the shift in focus around Florida is from the music and dancing to doing MDMA. Its a really sad reality and I hope my move to California will be change from opting to listen to music and do drugs in my own home. Melissa From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Nov 3 23:30:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA18858; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:30:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA18853; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:30:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id XAA03970; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:30:38 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id XAA14886; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:30:36 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:30:36 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Reply-To: Randy C Cone Subject: Mantra review To: Know 1 cc: sfraves , Is it Trance? <604@party.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi folks!! =) Well the 1st Mantra monthly (Full On Fridays) got off with a bang but sorta fizzled at the end. We started at Big Heart City. The Mantra crew did an amazing job of decorating the place and Dutch put together an amazing sound system. Huge props on the sound!! The b-lite banners were simply amazing!! Raven (our sacred altar Goddess) had perhaps the most amazing new banner that night. I won't bother describing it as words simply would not do it justice. The ambient room suffered from noise bleed; so what else is new. Ambient rooms always get last considerations (unless I'm in charge! :) However Kraig (sp?) did a fine job of blending his sound with the bleed sound from the dance floor. Anna started out and I thought the first half of her set was stunning! She was jolting my spinal cord just the right way! It was especially nice to see her pitch in and help with the set up. It really made the party seem like a family affair. Theta Blip was on next and he too was blinding. I probably danced the most during his long set. Then of course Dutch came on and everything went right out the door. Talk about some crazy movements on the dance floor! The only real complaint was that Dutch had everyone moving so hard that the dancers were causing the tonearms to skip... usually right at a peak. Thank goodness Dutch is such a pro and recovered as well as he could. I had to leave and go set up the majority of my equipment at (shudder) Acme. Since BHC closed at 4, the plan was to regroup at Acme and continue there, with free chai, until 10 or 11 am. Well Moonpup came in and started to really lay down some heavy shit when who should appear but the fire marshall. He was lonely I guess and called for Willy's boys (SFPD). So we had to stop. Argh! Well I'm pushing the Mantra crew for no more BHC parties. The change over from one venue to another is just too painful. We will see what the future holds. Thanks to everyone who came out. We all enjoyed having you trance folks out with us that night. Especially huge BIG thanks go out to my crew; perhaps the most consistant and hard working crew that has ever worked with me personally. Sarah, David and of course my slide projector expert, Anarch. You folks filled my heart with joy with your willing help and support hugz y'all, Ran @ Dionysus Dreams -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 00:48:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA23361; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:48:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA23354; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora (sfsu-annex4.sfsu.edu [130.212.10.233]) by mercury.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id AAA26881 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:47:59 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 15:51:52 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Sun W. Kim" Subject: NRR - Free Computer Stuff Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hey everyone, i have an old XT computer with the following: 1.44MB drive 360K drive 8-bit FDD Controller that willlet you use 1.44mb & 1.2mb drives on XTs 30 MB (RLL) Hard Drive 2400 baud internal modem Hercules graphics card, serial/game/joystick ports 101 Keyboard if you are interested, call 415.647.9760 and please leave a message for Sun. btw, winner takes all! Thanks From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 02:29:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id CAA04205; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 02:29:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuba.aix.calpoly.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id CAA04200; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 02:29:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by tuba.aix.calpoly.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA63448; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 02:28:57 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 02:28:56 -0800 (PST) From: Austin Woffington To: Aryck Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: SPIRIT, and some other stuff In-Reply-To: <9611032132.AA18568@heald.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey Aryck, I know exactly how you feel. Before i moved I was getting to the point were all the parties I went to were not as fun as they used to be for one main reason. I was getting disturbed/annoyed with the influences drugs had made on most of my friends in the rave scene. Many of my close friends have drifted away (maybe I've drifted from them) because they don't go to parties for the same reasons I still go to them for. I love to dance my ass of to bomb ass beats --- FIRST I love to meet great people and exchange interesting ideas with people at parties -- SECOND I love to just be around a bunch of people having a great time --- THIRD. Anything else is extra for my evening. My ex-girlfriend and friends are the type who are very suceptable to peer presure (lack of self-esteem I guess) and all are just going down hill. CR is the main culppret. In my eyes there are Very bad drugs out there and there are drugs that are acceptable (to me) to be used IN MODERATION in opening peoples minds and perceptions to whole new concepts in life. My life has certainly change because of the rave scene for the better in that i am more open to new things and people, I feel I'm less steriotypical of people, I am less of a shy person (It's so easy to say hi with no inabitions), I have realized a focus in life and have been able to seperate fun from "work" inorder to fufill a happy lifestyle. I chose to move to San Luis Obisbo to go to cal poly and to get away from my so called friends in the rave scene. I keep in touch with those I want to now and I get a chance to work for something I want to achieve in life = a career. I could have chosen Berkley or gone south but I wanted a break and besides SF and LA are only a quick 3.5 hours away. I'm even trying to help out the locals here with the growing rave scene, and I stay on this list as well as Socal-raves to stay in touch. The best thing is to offer help to those who realize they have a problem. I've found you can't help those that don't want to be helped (look at those forced in to rehab by the courts). Let those you care about know your worried about their behavior and let them know that you will be there for them if they need it. Besides all that keep dancin' and keep smilin' Back to homework and my Dan - Jeno - Garth sf tapes..... PLUR, Austin ------------------( ( ( ((0)) ) ) )----------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 02:41:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id CAA05334; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 02:41:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id CAA05329; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 02:41:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id CAA08716; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 02:40:59 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: star owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 02:40:59 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: Rebecca Klassen cc: Andy Wyszkowski , sfraves@hyperreal.com, SDream Subject: Flappers, ravers, models, Odwalla, & making it real! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear Rebecca & SFRavefriends, My computer tells me that on Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Rebecca Klassen shared: > DANGER! EXTREMELY LONG!! (but i think relevant and interesting) > > Wow you just hit on my pet theory (kindof)! Except that my > pet theory is that flapper women > were trying to emulate children in their persual of > men. So really you didn't say the same thing. I also think (in my > extremely perceptive sense of observation) that there is a significant > number of raver girls who do the same thing, or at least that I have > noticed down south. You'd see the lollipop sucking pigtail havin little > girly giggling high cute voice tweeting raver girls appealing to the boys > while on e, in overt sexuality. My theory isn't totally hashed out in the > flapper aspect of the argument, b/c it was a similar (but different!) > sort of malaise. is that the right word? Malaise? I associate that with Jimmy Carter, not flappers. 8) But I've noticed the similarties between flapper and raver girls too; I think it's a wonderful trend, and I hope it continues. Betty-boop-boppin' flapper gals had it goin' on! ;) > But anyway, flappers wore corsets to squish their breasts down and appear > flat-chested, and really deemphasize any curves, as did the cut of their > dresses. I got my spark from watching the movie version of the Great > Gatsby, where at his party is this flock of women running around > screaming and then there's this cabaret type scene where the > singers/dancers have these high trilling voices and well, I know that's > not much evidence, but... > Well I see a parallel in the sort of feigned sense of sexual equality > during the flapper period and what I observed down south. The "little girl" > appeal of what is currently determined to be -fashionable- in my own > opinion can certainly not be denied; looking in any advertisement or > magazine geared to the younger set (teens +) would evidence this. And > then there's that mixed up sexuality bit. > The flapper period was definitely one of sensuality and the beginnings of > sexual freedom, and the ability to get totally trashed and fucked up like > never before, out of which arose role confusion. > So I don't know how my argument is even convinceable, and if anyone has > any insight let me know. > However, Andy, I disagree w/ the flapper/hippie comparison. The flapper > period was one of change, yes, but in a melancholy party to you die, > conspicuous consumption, glamour seeking sort of way (perhaps > demonstrated by the Decadence art movement of the time, specifically what > arose out of the Symbolist and Art Nouveau movements?). > It hailed spiritedness, independence, but in a self-destructive > manner. I guess that's where I see similarities in our > popular culture, in the Heroin eyes fuck me look > of feminine passivity portrayed in fashion marketing, and other venues. That's interesting that you see those models this way, to me they exhibit mostly tired, jaded, and unfriendly demeanors, not at all a fun, positive "fuck me" look. Do these ads ever show girls (or guys) in the throes of passion? Generally they show scraggly-looking kids standing around in post-grunge clothing with nary a smile to be seen. > The hippies, however, encited awareness of the nature of status quo. > Because of them we presently have a greater number environmentally aware > and activist people in our nation. Flag burning is a strong symbol, but > strength is wholly admirable. > The thing with the mass marketing of the PLUR idealism is that it won't > work precisely b/c it doesn't carry you any further than believing in > love; which is powerful in it's simplicity, but there's a lot of room for > hypocrisy in love as evidenced in western literature (literature being > myths, or a statement of the way people operate). I think people must be > encited, or excited, to go beyond a mere pronouncement of PLUR (which is > a fundament, I'm not saying that PLUR is not a wonderful attitude), but > to release their apathy. An excellent means of furthering this basis of > understanding is environmental awareness, which is respect at its basic > level. I read a quote the other day, and I can't remember who wrote > it, or what it was verbatim, but it basically said > that during the turn of the century, the fear was not good or evil, but > mediocrity. i think that that's what we're moving towards- mediocrity. we > don't care enough about something to make it worthwhile, make it real. You said something there! Maybe if more people cared, the models in fashion ads would look less apathetic too, as a sort of reflection of the popular culture. On the other hand, making it real, while good in an emotional and cultural sense, may be misleading people in other areas. As the Odwalla debacle shows, sometimes artificial and pasteurized is better! 8) Much love, <<< Starchild >>> From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 08:10:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA28563; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA28546; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:10:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id IAA14129; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:09:49 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199611041609.IAA14129@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: AUDIO IMPACT question To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:09:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: walrus@inow.com, MaryP76944@aol.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves list ] I have a question about this drum & bass event this Wednesday - Wednesday, November 6th - Hunab Ku & B.A.S.S. Crew presents Audio Impact Jason Mouse (Emocean, Boston), UFO, Flux, Thad, Tomas. free mix tapes for first 30, and other giveaways 9p-3a, All ages, $5. SF. 415.332.5800 I called the info number, but I then was asked to enter and extension number that I didn't have. Does anyone know what it's supposed to be? Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 09:05:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA03514; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:05:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocketsci.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA03499; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:04:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from Patrick-pc.rocketsci.com by rocketsci.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA19850; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:03:22 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961104170510.006b2298@rocketsci.com> X-Sender: swatkins@rocketsci.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 09:05:10 -0800 To: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) From: Sam Watkins Subject: Re: AUDIO IMPACT question Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 08:09 AM 11/4/96 -0800, you wrote: >[ to sfraves list ] > > I have a question about this drum & bass event this Wednesday - > I called the info number, but I then was asked to enter and extension number . Does anyone know what it's supposed to be? > > Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com the B.A.S.S cru's extension is 24-7 -beatjakr ............................................................................ .............................. .........................h i g h e r f i d e l i t y............................. .......................c o m m u n i c a t i o n s.......................... ......................deep beats for freeks with jeeps......................... ............................................................................ ............................. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 09:17:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA04544; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:17:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA04539; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:17:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA08506; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:10:57 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:10:57 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ward To: Larry Ching cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, walrus@inow.com, MaryP76944@aol.com Subject: Re: AUDIO IMPACT question In-Reply-To: <199611041609.IAA14129@netcom22.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hey all, The # is 415.332.5800 ext. 247 come support the scene...it's gonna be wikid:) -alex (dj Soto) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 09:30:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA06006; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:30:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA05998; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:30:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BBCA33.84F60880@misnt1.rely.com>; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:35:30 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'Sfraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: NNR: ***WANTED SL-1200's*** Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:35:27 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello and happy Monday ravers.... I have a friend who really, really, REALLY would like to pick up a set of decks and possibly a mixer, amp, turntable cases and everything else associated with DJing. She's into trance and hard techno, please email me w/any info as she's really interested in purchasing. ****Don't (Prop 215) forget (Prop 215) to vote (Prop 215) tomorrow***** ---Adam "Stay Connected..." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 09:53:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA08279; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA08258; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:52:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from greg (sjx-ca85-13.ix.netcom.com [207.94.112.173]) by mail.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA08713; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:53:08 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961104173449.006c9728@ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: ascend@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 09:34:49 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Harmony!!! Subject: Artists, read this!!! (please) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello, I will start off by saying, Harmony Productions is looking for some new ideas and creativity. Basically, what we are looking for is creative people to do designing for some of our banners, props, etc. There is no limit to what your imagination can come up with, nor are there any guidelines as to what we are asking for. If you are interested in helping with this please don't hesitate to respond! We have a couple parties coming up that we are doing new designs for. First is Omar's party, "A Wrinkle in Time" (11/16/96), the next Beautiful People party (12/?/96), and the, well, we'll talk about this one later... Anyways, so there is a lot we can do, we just need more input from you guys to do it! Please respond privately if interested. Thanks in advance! Peace, Greg =) Peace, love and harmony to all!!! Greg =) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 10:02:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA09056; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:02:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA09049; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:01:54 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id NAA26303; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:00:53 -0500 Received: from by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB19349; Mon, 4 Nov 96 10:00:52 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 27E3D5F0; Mon, 4 Nov 96 11:00:47 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:56:19 -0800 Message-Id: <27E3D5F0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re: NNR: ***WANTED SL-1200's*** To: "'Sfraves@hyperreal.com'" , Adam Guevara Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk That reminds me, i would like to purchase a third 1200 for my setup, so i can be cool like all the other dj's that spin on 3 turntables. Then I can change my name to "Yan Can DJ" ! deep deepfog deep down in the underground ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: NNR: ***WANTED SL-1200's*** Author: Adam Guevara at ccsmtp Date: 11/4/96 9:35 AM Hello and happy Monday ravers.... I have a friend who really, really, REALLY would like to pick up a set of decks and possibly a mixer, amp, turntable cases and everything else associated with DJing. She's into trance and hard techno, please email me w/any info as she's really interested in purchasing. ****Don't (Prop 215) forget (Prop 215) to vote (Prop 215) tomorrow***** ---Adam "Stay Connected..." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 10:05:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA09450; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA09444; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:05:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA13095 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:56:45 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:56:45 -0800 (PST) From: David Lowe To: SF-Raver Family Subject: ooops; Mantra; this week in lala land Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Ooops!! Sorry, didn't mean to cc the list on that response to Monday Night Dinner. Should be paying more attention, I guess! I had a phenomenal weekend! It was really, really low-key in relation to my past few weekends (only one party? Hee hee!) But just as sleep deprived, and just as much fun - if not more. I somehow managed to not sleep at all on Thursday night - so work Friday was really interesting, and I was in a truly twisted state of mind by the time I was supposed to get to BHC to help Ran with the Mantra setup. But I still somehow stayed upright for most of the night. Helping Randy was a lot of fun - watching the setup of the main space was really amazing too, though. They had the most incredible blacklight paintings I have ever seen! The four vertical paintings that were fitted into the pillars on the dance floor were especially incredible (IMHO.) Then the music started and the fatigue disappeared for awhile. (It came back later, and *hard*, though.) It was really rad! I don't get very much Goa in my diet normally, and I really enjoyed. Someone (not sure who...) mentioned that the music and visuals were very similar in ways - pretty but overwhelming and confusing and jumbled at first, until you concentrate, and then all the beatiful patterns and subtleties become apparent. Very true!! Anna was really fun to watch - she was *so* into her music! At one point, she threw on a record, came out and danced for a few minutes, then went back behind the turntables. That was great!! She also spun a track I loved, with a repetitive cricket noise as the background. Theta Blip kicked ass, a harder & more driving set. I think I took a nap at about that point - managed to miss Dutch, unfortunately, because when I woke up it was time to head over to ACME fnord to help Randy some more fnord. Within an hour of our arrival, the Acme was once again transformed from the hideous, decrepit & disintegrating warehouse into the magical dance zone, thanks to Randy's visual stimulus and a lot of hard work, the best Chai I have ever tasted (from Nub Circus), the beginnings of a fun-filled set by Moonpup, and dozens of super-fun people! But alas, it was not meant to be. I really, really hope people give up on the ACME warehouse. It's not worth it. IMHO, of course. Cleanup was really interesting - I started to get a bit bitchy from the fatigue, but pulled through with Chai and hugs, and when the truck was loaded and the ACME desolate once again, I was greeted by the most beautiful thickly foggy morning I've ever seen here - couldn't see the downtown skyscrapers from 3rd&Mission from the fog. Sleep felt *so* good. The rest of the weekend was just incredible, low-key and happy. Walked around a lot, had good food & excellent company, flew a kite - I even slept plenty. It was great. So now it's monday, another long week ahead. I hope to see many of you at Monday Night dinner tonight, and tons of you at Audio Impact wednesday. And this weekend: 2012!! Take care all, & have an excellent Monday! : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : : Everything not strictly forbidden is now MANDATORY. : : - The Schwa Corporation : :: fingerprint: 1F E7 D3 24 04 18 72 67 CC E6 66 1B 79 79 CB 3A :: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMn4uRqD2AoV67volAQHFrwf/UuIYmYtYQ859+fJkIbwVAhzrk06elQLa hMI5eLzCG7EmBtuWkp7W0wJHu5kDsyHu3gK0Ea3W1YKVU+sOJguOIe+zANzEXTBT BereXBsKFzul4VIS7z+5HDoTv1Nh6Fa+szhAjf7Qpn3ZMuJm9+eXdbPtklzj6ceI pqcfcAmlG1KWmB6P+u9nxiGdP4/JlR5OoLQ+KStC9zmA8HnUPkph26Wp+dn6iJCX hwnvInBEpGVFulsm5t44ekwNuX75KwcsY5C4Q2sfaVpI2tyHeZTEJPsHi+zNQHj7 wEqGZoU5NTzEJOQx3SiZ35Bm1n4hB1L++RVGZ3+pNT8cpd2s/oDlMQ== =zw+H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 11:22:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA18256; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:22:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA18171; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA14689; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:21:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (plunkett@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA00122; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:19:40 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:19:39 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew James Plunkett To: DOUGLAS BJORN ZIMMERMAN cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: 303 For Sale In-Reply-To: <199611030939.BAA12829@pluto.sfsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello douglas, What are you looking to get for the 303? I am interested in picking one up. Take care, Matt ****************************************************************** * Matthew Plunkett * * Nanotech Construction Worker * * UC Berkeley Chemistry * ****************************************************************** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 11:55:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA21262; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:55:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA21249; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) id LAA05952 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:55:27 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199611041955.LAA05952@xanadu.cyborganic.com> Subject: SAMHAIN? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:55:27 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Are there any reviews for this? Or were they all sucked off the physical plane into the astral plane just like the Mayans? -troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 12:10:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA22784; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:10:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA22776; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:10:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:13:11 -0800 X-Sender: ambient@netcom13.netcom.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:11:53 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Joe Rice Subject: mad (bsp) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk tonight: 11/4 DJs: Tim McKnew (Cloud Factory) Monty Joe RIce at Bahia Cabana - 1600 Market @ Franklin 18+ w/ID $2 before 11 $3 after 11 (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 12:58:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA27054; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:58:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from yam.tenetwork.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA27029; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:57:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from Feynman.tenetwork.com (feynman.tenetwork.com [10.10.2.99]) by yam.tenetwork.com (8.7.6/8.7.2) with SMTP id MAA24508; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:51:33 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <327E675A.41F8@ten.net> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 13:59:54 -0800 From: Pengo Reply-To: Pengo@ten.net Organization: Pengo Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com CC: sac41673@saclink.csus.edu, Hughdhyana@aol.com, bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu Subject: SFR Bumper Sticker Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Brian Denny > >Would be bumpersticker: "Ravers do it all night." > > so who wants to make sfraves "ravers do it all night" bumperstickers? > I've got Illustrator, I just have to get through mid-terms before I >can commit to anything new!! Amy R Starkey > And I will gladly purchase several! :):) > > love, > Amy Whoa! I guess I should listen to my entrepreneurial instincs from now on!!!! I didn't think there wiuld be any intrest in the idea! But heck, I say the sooner/cooler someone makes 'em, the better! How bout some of us that are interested collaborate on the design or something? -=Pengo=- Blake "Pengo" Merriam Soon to be bumpersticker: "Ravers do it all night." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 13:11:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA28410; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:11:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA28379; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id NAA17023; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:11:03 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:11:03 -0800 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199611042111.NAA17023@netcom17.netcom.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: full-on friday!!! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I only went to one party this weekend: Mantra on friday night. But that's okay because I'm feeling very well rested, and ready to tackle Audio Impact this wednesday :) Unfortunately, I showed up late to Mantra, which I'm really kicking myself about (I heard that Anna's set was fantastic). But I did get to hear Theta Blip and Dutch. Theta (who I've only heard once before) played nothing but non-stop in your face goa; the music would only let up for a measure at a time before pounding back in. Dutch, as always, played a great set; the music wasn't as viscerally intense (but more intense in other ways), which was perfect... I really needed to wind down after Theta. My one complaint about the night: the sound system was great, and it was well spread out around the space. However, deep bass was seriously lacking; it was as if someone had carved out the entire bottom octave. The high and mids were really crisp, but I never had that bass pounding in my chest feeling. No big deal, though. The Mantra crew made excellent use of the space: day glow paintings and banners were hung liberally throughout. There were enough blacklights to turn everyone into walking glow-sticks regardless of where one was (never can get enough blacklights :). And the space was so well lit, while still retaining the essence of darkness! I appreciated this so much. There's nothing worse than not being able to see what's going on or who's around you (ever lose your friends at Sunset?). The artwork of the day glow banners was truly beautiful. It's my understanding that they were all designed and painted by the Mantra people; simply amazing. The beauty of the artwork could not be appreciated while dancing around wildly... the amount of detail and depth of meaning of each banner required much examination to really understand what each one was about. And in that sense, it was a wonderful complement to the music. Goa itself cannot be fully appreciated while casually listening... there is so much going on and so many levels of detail and texture. The after party, unfortunately, was at the Acme. Considering the big stink that happened the last time, trying to throw anything rave related there was simply not a good idea. Shortly after the music started, it was shutdown by the fire department. It was too bad, because that would have been Moonpup's final set in San Francisco. So we cleaned up and moved the party to the parking lot. No sound system, but we enjoyed the bounty of Nub Chai (yummy!), the very same *wonderful* people who introduced me to Chai (and jungle) at Burning Man. After drinking their Chai, San Francisco Chai just tastes like water. After being kicked out of the Acme by the fire people, some horrible police officer (who I could tell had more than his share of bad karma and donuts for one lifetime) decided to add insult to injury and be Mr. Tough Guy policeman. The bottom line is if that space is ever used again, everyone will be arrested. I don't know if that was an idle threat or a promise, but I don't want to be around to find out. There's no way I'm letting my ass get traded for a pack of cigarettes by some guy named Bubba. And there's no way that I'll ever go to another party at Acme. I've had a lot of fun there, it's a great space, but it's dead. And it's deadly. There's a reason why they don't want us to party there. The fireman said it best: you look like a nice bunch of people who are just having fun and not doing anything wrong, but this building is too unsafe. My position exactly. Anyway, despite getting busted, I still had a great time talking to friends outside and helping to clean up. So it's all good :) So I'm really looking forward to the next *full-on* friday Mantra party; that was just too much fun :). And the vibe was so great. There's was so much collective energy without there being a big pile of mushy people. I was actually able to dance in my own space for the entire night and be in my own little world in trance land. If I wanted to be left alone, people would leave me alone. If I wanted to be social, people would be social with me. Noone was in my face or in my way. Perfect :) See you at Mad tonight! As usual, it's at the Bahia Cabana, home of the Saturday night Macerena party. ;) psychedelically yours, Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com saturn5@cyborganic.net | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-626-5074 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 13:12:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA28539; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:12:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA28532; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:12:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA03462 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:11:57 -0800 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199611042111.NAA03462@trix.cisco.com> Subject: NRR: Friendship (fwd) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:11:57 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Something for a low traffic day.... > >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Friends Through the Years... > > As we have grown and changed so have our ideas on friendship.... > >1. In kindergarten your idea of a good friend was the person who > > let you have the red crayon when all that was left was the ugly > > black one. > >2. In first grade your idea of a good friend was the person who > > went to the bathroom with you and held your hand as you walked > > through the scary halls. > > > >3. In second grade your idea of a good friend was the person who > > helped you stand up to the class bully. > > > >4. In third grade your idea of a good friend was the person who > > shared their lunch with you when you forgot yours on the bus. > >5. In fourth grade your idea of a good friend was the person > > who was willing to switch square dancing partners in gym so you > > wouldn't have to be stuck do-si-do-ing with Nasty Nicky or Smelly > > Susan. > >6. In fifth grade your idea of a friend was the person who saved a > > seat on the back of the bus for you. > >7. In sixth grade your idea of a friend was the person who went > > up to Nick or Susan, your new crush, and asked them to dance with > > you, so that if they said no you wouldn't have to be embarrassed. > > > >8. In seventh grade your idea of a friend was the person who let > > you copy the social studies homework from the night before that > > you had forgotten about. > >9. In eigth grade your idea of a good friend was the person who > > helped you pack up your stuffed animals and old baseball cards > > so that your room would be a "high schooler's" room, but didn't > > laugh at you when you finished and broke down in tears. > >10. In ninth grade your idea of a good friend was the person who > > went with you to that "cool" party thrown by a senior so you > > wouldn't wind up being the only freshman there. > > > >11. In tenth grade your idea of a good friend was the person who > > changed their schedule so you would have someone to sit with at lunch. > >12. In eleventh grade your idea of a good friend was the person > > who gave you rides in their new car, convinced your parents that you > > shouldn't be grounded, consoled you when you broke up with Nick > > or Susan, and found you a date to the prom. > >13. In twelfth grade your idea of a good friend was the person > > who helped you pick out a college, assured you that you would get > > into that college, helped you deal with your parents who were having > > a hard time adjusting to the idea of letting you go.... > >14. At graduation your idea of a good friend was the person who > > was crying on the inside but managed the biggest smile one could > > give as they congratulated you and held you the tightest of all -- > > reminding you that they would never let you go too far. > >15. The summer after twelfth grade your idea of a good friend > > was the person who helped you clean up the bottles from that party, > > helped you sneak out of the house when you just couldn't deal with > > your parents, assured you that now that you and Nick or you and Susan > > were back together, you could make through anything, helped you pack > > up for college and just silently hugged you as you looked through > > blurry eyes at 18 years of memories you were leaving behind, and > > finally on those last days of childhood, went out of their way to come > > over and send you off with a hug, a lot of memories, reassurance that > > you would make it in college as well as you had these past 18 years, > > and most importantly sent you off to college knowing you were loved > > always and truly. > > > >16. Now, your idea of a good friend is still the person who > > gives you the better of the two choices, hold your hand when your > > scared, helps you fight off those who try to take advantage of you, > > thinks of you at times when you are not there, reminds you of what you > > have forgotten, helps you put the past behind you but understands > > when you need to hold on to it a little longer, stays with you so that > > you have confidence, goes out of their way to make time for you, helps > > you clear up your mistakes, helps you deal with pressure from others, > > smiles for you when they are sad, helps me become a better person, > > and most importantly loves you.! > > > >Pass this on to the ones who are your true friends -- they are > >the ones who have gotten you this far. Thank them and love them. > >*************************************************************************** > > "Still-in a way-nobody sees a flower-really- > > it is so small-we haven't time-and to see takes time, > > like to have a friend takes time." Georgia O'Keeffe > >*************************************************************************** > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 13:23:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA29496; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.online-la.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA29490; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from online-la.com (jbondy.online-la.com [206.29.15.96]) by mail.online-la.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA10114; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:17:59 -0800 Message-ID: <327E5EE2.4284@worldsite.net> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 13:23:46 -0800 From: ~^JBondy Reply-To: jbondy@worldsite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: socal-raves@ucsd.edu CC: sdraves@party.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: :::Elevation2::: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Nov 16th 1996 The Elevators are back in service!! Socal-raves brings you Elevation2 ============================================================================== :::ELEVATE YOURSELF::: "PLUR stands for Peace, Love, Unity, and Respect. These four ideals are often touted as the elements that make raves more positive and life affirming than other kinds of parties or club scenes." Remember these words? Dominic Paolombo put this on the back of the flyers for Elevation. What is said here is true. Within these words, is the whole reason why so many of us rave at all. It is what keeps us doing what we do year after year, and is the reason for us uniting again to gather under the stars and celebrate this joyous life. What was attmepted and achieved last August, was a precursor for things to come. So, November 16th 1996, we embark again into the great outdoors to celebrate. We have kept the tradition and picked an incredible site in the Los Angeles National Forest. I know a lot of you are talking about cold, but I can tell you that this locale is only 1600 feet up, as opposed to the last site of almost 4000 feet. There will not be any snow. Although the temperatures will dip, just not as drastically as a lot of people are thinking. It still will be nippy out there, so don't be afraid to bring all your warm rave gear.( Do they sell flouro triple fat goose;) WOOD FIRES will be permitted!!! so the smorEs and techno-campsongs can ring throughout the night! *We have an eniter campsite for our use, so we can make the best of it!* Observe and protect Mother Nature at all times. Let's make a good exapmle and ensure that we can use sites such as this in the future. The way that we are perceived is the way that we act. So be responsible, and accountable. Pack it in, pack it out! We will be asking for a $5 donation per person to cover the costs of the sound system and reservations. We'll be serving free coffee all night long, as well as free water, and a bread and fruit breakfast! Plus lots of other free goodies as well--There is a little cafe' inside of the campground that will be serving up other beverages and food as well, and a line-up that I'm sure you'll all appreciate. The dj's are: Kc (Dune) Tom Allain (Sweet) Andy Kumeda (Elevation) with vocal accompaniment by Adrienne (NoITuLove) And Breaking bread with the morning sun, its DJ Brad (Mother Earth) We also have Tonka sound this time, bringing the fattest stacks in LA. We'll release directions to the site a few days before the event. So stay tuned to socal-raves, call the info line (714)224-9779 email our automated response elevation@party.net and check out our website (still a few bugs) http://www.online-la.com/~jbondy If you have any questions or suggestions regarding Elevation, you can respond directly to this email. "As we open our minds and transcend our limits, we can explore beyond the rave to discover new ideas and knowledge relevant to our lives and dreams." Spread the love on the 16th, and no meanies please!!! Thanks, and I love all you guys!!! Bondy.. J Bondy Elevation2 an intimate celbration meant to enlight and unite those that care about our scene- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 13:33:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA00590; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:33:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from xinet.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA00583; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:33:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora by xinet.COM via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) id NAA03097; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:24:34 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <327E675A.41F8@ten.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:24:29 -0800 To: Pengo@ten.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Tony Rotundo Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker Cc: sac41673@saclink.csus.edu, Hughdhyana@aol.com, bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 1:59 PM -0800 11/4/96, Pengo wrote: >Soon to be bumpersticker: "Ravers do it all night." Um, excuse me! I don't think we opened that up to a full-fledge, why-not-complicate-matters-like-usual, "what should the SFR bumper sticker be" contest. You know it can't be that easy, gang. =) I say this only because I like this one better: Ravers thump all night! And so here we go...anyone else have an idea? =) Tone From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 14:18:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA04725; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA04720; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:18:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv3.apple.com (A17-128-100-121.apple.com [17.128.100.121]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA31592; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:11:47 -0800 Received: from [17.221.20.215] (campma.apple.com [17.221.20.215]) by scv3.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA25818; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:13:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199611042213.OAA25818@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 14:12:24 -0000 x-sender: camp@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "Mark D. Camp" To: "Tony Rotundo" , , "sfraves" cc: , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > >And so here we go...anyone else have an idea? "I (Heart) Techno" "Honk if you (Heart) Techno" - I think this one would be cool on a shirt :) oh ya, these are modular...you can replace Techno with House or Goa or Jungle. Maybe a hole series of bumber stickers?........ ____ ____ !E.A.C! Electronic Artists Collective ____ *Astronout* ____ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 14:28:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA05607; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA05597; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:28:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from Ebay.Sun.COM ([129.150.111.20]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id OAA22269; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:28:00 -0800 Received: from dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM by Ebay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id OAA20032; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:27:57 -0800 Received: by dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA05702; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:26:09 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:26:09 -0800 From: guillermo.lemus@Ebay.Sun.COM (Guillermo Lemus) Message-Id: <199611042226.OAA05702@dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, tony@xinet.COM Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Whoa! how about (like the song) "In the night we Rave, In the day we sleep" VERTIGO > From tony@xinet.COM Mon Nov 4 13:31:56 1996 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:24:29 -0800 > To: Pengo@ten.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com > From: Tony Rotundo > Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker > Cc: sac41673@saclink.csus.edu, Hughdhyana@aol.com, > bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu > > At 1:59 PM -0800 11/4/96, Pengo wrote: > > >Soon to be bumpersticker: "Ravers do it all night." > > Um, excuse me! I don't think we opened that up to a full-fledge, > why-not-complicate-matters-like-usual, "what should the SFR bumper sticker > be" contest. > > You know it can't be that easy, gang. =) > > I say this only because I like this one better: > > Ravers thump all night! > > And so here we go...anyone else have an idea? > > =) > Tone > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 14:32:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA05936; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:32:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA05930; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:32:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from Ebay.Sun.COM ([129.150.111.20]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id OAA23572 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:31:55 -0800 Received: from dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM by Ebay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id OAA21003; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:31:52 -0800 Received: by dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA05708; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:30:06 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:30:06 -0800 From: guillermo.lemus@Ebay.Sun.COM (Guillermo Lemus) Message-Id: <199611042230.OAA05708@dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Or is it "In the Dark we Rave, In the Light we Sleep" VERTIGO > From guillermo.lemus@Ebay Mon Nov 4 14:26:59 1996 > Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:26:09 -0800 > From: guillermo.lemus@Ebay (Guillermo Lemus) > To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, tony@xinet.COM > Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker > > Whoa! > how about (like the song) > "In the night we Rave, In the day we sleep" > VERTIGO > > From tony@xinet.COM Mon Nov 4 13:31:56 1996 > > Mime-Version: 1.0 > > Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:24:29 -0800 > > To: Pengo@ten.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com > > From: Tony Rotundo > > Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker > > Cc: sac41673@saclink.csus.edu, Hughdhyana@aol.com, > > bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu > > > > At 1:59 PM -0800 11/4/96, Pengo wrote: > > > > >Soon to be bumpersticker: "Ravers do it all night." > > > > Um, excuse me! I don't think we opened that up to a full-fledge, > > why-not-complicate-matters-like-usual, "what should the SFR bumper sticker > > be" contest. > > > > You know it can't be that easy, gang. =) > > > > I say this only because I like this one better: > > > > Ravers thump all night! > > > > And so here we go...anyone else have an idea? > > > > =) > > Tone > > > > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 14:37:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA06306; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:37:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA06296; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:37:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (raygun@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00621; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:37:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:37:19 -0800 (PST) From: Reagan Reid To: Steve Simitzis cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: full-on friday!!! In-Reply-To: <199611042111.NAA17023@netcom17.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk As far as the after party that was held at the Acme; I thought that there were *not* going to be anymore events going on there. We probaly should just go ahead and tear that damn building down. Than, we could build a small monument there devoted to all of us crazy ravers that had ever gone there;). Reagan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 14:44:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA06930; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:44:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA06926; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BBCA5F.530C00A0@misnt1.rely.com>; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:49:04 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: SFR DJ Bumper Sticker Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:49:02 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk OK, we have: "Ravers do it all night" "DJ's Do it with 12 inches" (I've seen this one...) Sooo..... Raver DJ's do it all night with 12inches.... OR (my fave...) Gabber DJ's do it all night with 12Inches at 200+ BPMs.... ---Adam From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 14:52:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA07552; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA07545; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:52:10 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id RAA14718; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:51:57 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03778; Mon, 4 Nov 96 14:51:57 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 27E81EA0; Mon, 4 Nov 96 15:53:14 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:48:36 -0800 Message-Id: <27E81EA0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re[2]: full-on friday!!! To: Steve Simitzis , Reagan Reid Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk like a big bronze raver statue with space-age sunglassesand a big, funky hat. almost reminiscent to a parade float. the rest of the area would just be left demolished. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: full-on friday!!! Author: Reagan Reid at ccsmtp Date: 11/4/96 2:37 PM As far as the after party that was held at the Acme; I thought that there were *not* going to be anymore events going on there. We probaly should just go ahead and tear that damn building down. Than, we could build a small monument there devoted to all of us crazy ravers that had ever gone there;). Reagan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 14:54:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA07794; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA07766; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:54:23 -0800 (PST) From: BMGAUTHIER@aol.com Received: by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA11884; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:53:41 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:53:41 -0500 Message-ID: <961104175339_1880827043@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com, Sfraves@hyperreal.com, aguevara@rely.com Subject: Re: NNR: ***WANTED SL-1200's*** Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I have one 1200 that I will sell for $425 w/ Stanton Trackmaster needle. Goat. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 15:06:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA09132; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:06:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA09125; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:06:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy1.ba.best.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29134 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:57:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.86.235.114] (lesliea.vip.best.com [206.86.235.114]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA13458 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:57:37 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:57:37 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lesliea@best.com (Leslie Ayres) Subject: Re[2]: full-on friday!!! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey, I'll contribute the hat! Leslie ; ) > like a big bronze raver statue with space-age sunglassesand a big, > funky hat. almost reminiscent to a parade float. the rest of the > area would just be left demolished. > > > As far as the after party that was held at the Acme; I thought that >there were *not* going to be anymore events going on there. We probaly >should just go ahead and tear that damn building down. Than, we could >build a small monument there devoted to all of us crazy ravers that had >ever gone there;). > Reagan > XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -O- -- [8 ._. 8] . _____. . \___/ . From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 15:22:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA10824; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:22:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from yam.tenetwork.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA10816; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:22:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from Feynman.tenetwork.com (feynman.tenetwork.com [10.10.2.99]) by yam.tenetwork.com (8.7.6/8.7.2) with SMTP id PAA26833 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:16:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <327E8939.611B@ten.net> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 16:24:26 -0800 From: Pengo Reply-To: Pengo@ten.net Organization: Pengo Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re[2]: SFR Bumper Sticker Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Okay, Tony Rotundo is right. I probably did open a can of bandwidth clogging worms. My bad. Bad Pengo. No Glowstick. So how bout this: I've gotten all the ideas that people sent to the list already. If anyone else has more phrases or whatever that they want, send them to me as so we save the list a little breath. Just put 'Bumper Sticker' in the subject. Then I'll send a full list to the people that sent sugestions (If you don't have any ideas but want to get the final list. Send me a note.) Then we can narrow down the idea list to the favorate from there. Let's really try to keep this collaborative chaos from adding another meg or two (well, mayber not THAT much) in the SFR archives. If all goes well Steve Cooley says he *might* be able to design somethig today. If not than I'll tug at Hughdhyana's shoulder as soon as the semester is done. -=Pengo=- Blake "Pengo" Merriam Would be bumpersticker: "???" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 15:23:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA10905; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:23:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA10896; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00196 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:20:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA847150121; Mon, 04 Nov 96 15:11:53 pst Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 15:11:53 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9610048471.AA847150121@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk There's already a 'programmers do it all night' bumper sticker and T shirt... not to be excessively whiny or anything. In the spirit of positive thinking, I present these. How about "Ravers do it without permits" Ravers do it in dirty warehouses... Ravers do it while the DJ spins... (nice visual) Ravers do it with each other... (well...) Ravers do it on the basement floor... Ravers do it at a yet an undisclosed location... Ravers do it somewhere else every night. And my personal favorite::::: Ravers do it underground. Peace, AndyW From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 15:35:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA11915; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:35:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA11910; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:35:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv2.apple.com (A17-128-100-120.apple.com [17.128.100.120]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA29972; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:34:00 -0800 Received: from [17.221.20.215] (campma.apple.com [17.221.20.215]) by scv2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA07218; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:36:14 -0800 Message-Id: <199611042336.PAA07218@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 15:35:15 -0000 x-sender: camp@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "Mark D. Camp" To: "Andy Wyszkowski" , "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ravers Do it with PLUR ____ ____ !E.A.C! Electronic Artists Collective ____ *Astronout* ____ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 15:42:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA12649; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:42:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA12642; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA05925 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:39:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA21690 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:39:20 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:39:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199611042339.PAA21690@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: NRR: Friendship (fwd) X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Jay Wiley wrote: >> > Friends Through the Years... >> > As we have grown and changed so have our ideas on friendship.... >> >1. In kindergarten your idea of a good friend was the person who >> > let you have the red crayon when all that was left was the ugly >> > black one. Nice, but you forgot one: 17. When you're 90 years old and sitting in an old folks home, your idea of a good friend is a person who let's you have the blue crayon when all that was left was the ugly brown one... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 15:50:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA13516; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA13501; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [157.22.222.52] (router-aux0.domain.net [157.22.222.52]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA04009 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:48:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <27E81EA0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:41:47 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Wayne Correia Subject: Re[2]: full-on friday!!! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 2:48 PM -0800 11/4/96, TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com wrote: > like a big bronze raver statue with space-age sunglassesand a big, > funky hat. almost reminiscent to a parade float. the rest of the > area would just be left demolished. Well, you're close. ACME's going to become a Jack In The Box restaurant. How about sunglasses for Jack? :-) ____________________________________________________________________________ Wayne D. Correia +1.415.826.6000 900 Tennessee Street fax +1.415.826.6100 San Francisco, CA 94107 ____________________________________________________________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 15:59:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA14344; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from xinet.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA14334; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:59:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora by xinet.COM via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) id PAA06346; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:51:11 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9610048471.AA847150121@smtplink.acer.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:51:05 -0800 To: "Andy Wyszkowski" , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Tony Rotundo Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Yes, yes, yes!! At 3:11 PM -0800 11/4/96, Andy Wyszkowski wrote: >Ravers do it at a yet an undisclosed location... >Ravers do it underground. Or Ravers do it in a 10,000 sq ft virgin warehouse! Love it! TR From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 16:03:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA14775; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA14745; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:02:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id QAA05681; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:01:31 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:01:31 -0800 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199611050001.QAA05681@netcom17.netcom.com> To: wayne@club.net CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-reply-to: (message from Wayne Correia on Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:41:47 -0800) Subject: Re: Re[2]: full-on friday!!! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 15:41:47 -0800 > From: Wayne Correia > > Well, you're close. > > ACME's going to become a Jack In The Box restaurant. > > How about sunglasses for Jack? :-) > ha, the irony. Finally, it's legal for something to be open all night there, and it's a fookin Jack In The Box. yuk. Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com saturn5@cyborganic.net | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-626-5074 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 16:05:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA15010; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:05:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA14984; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:04:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (raygun@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA07913; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:04:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:04:44 -0800 (PST) From: Reagan Reid To: Steve Simitzis cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: full-on friday!!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk After re-reading my post; I realised just how bad my grammar was! Sorry folks, it's monday:(. I'm much more together in person! Have a great week and I hope to see some of you at Gateway this weekend. It's gonna be gooood=). Reagan On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Reagan Reid wrote: > > > > > As far as the after party that was held at the Acme; I thought that > there were *not* going to be anymore events going on there. We probaly > should just go ahead and tear that damn building down. Than, we could > build a small monument there devoted to all of us crazy ravers that had > ever gone there;). > Reagan > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 16:16:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA15938; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:16:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA15930; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv1.apple.com (A17-128-100-119.apple.com [17.128.100.119]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA107712 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:15:40 -0800 Received: from newton.apple.com (newton.apple.com [17.205.32.200]) by scv1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA43270 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:17:22 -0800 Received: from [17.205.32.116] by newton.apple.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15530; Mon, 4 Nov 96 16:16:48 PST Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 16:16:47 PST Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: qhelp@newton.apple.com (Ivan Vasquez) Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk How about : Ravers do it for about $20. Ravers do it for free water. Ravers do it to the beat. Ravers do it underground. Ravers do it wherever they won't get busted. 42042042042042042042042042042042042 2 Ivan Vasquez 0 0 Qhelp and K.info Hardware Assistance 4 4 qhelp@newton.apple.com 2 2 k.info@newton.apple.com 0 0 I'm located in R&D5 4 4 3rd Floor cube B357 2 20420420420420420420420420420420420 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 16:18:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA16179; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:18:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.crt.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA16156; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:18:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [35.9.8.181] by www.crt.net (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA163 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:21:30 -0500 Message-ID: <327E7BF9.4EF7@vmax.net> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:28:03 -0400 From: silicon@vmax.net (Silicon) Reply-To: silicon@vmax.net Organization: Vmax Records X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ravers do it with the hip.:):):):) -- Vmax Records P.O.Box 1095 E.Lansing , MI 48826 Ph: 1 517 482 1728 E:Mail silicon@vmax.net www.crt.net/vmax From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 16:24:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA16713; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:24:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from dnai.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA16706; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:24:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [140.174.167.22] (dnai-140-174-167-22.dialup.dnai.com [140.174.167.22]) by dnai.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA15099 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:24:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:24:01 +0100 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: vontews@dnai.com (Peter Von Tews) Subject: spaz Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello everyone! Has anybody been to any spaz parties? tell me about 'em, I had a quite an adventure one time! are any comin up? Peter Tews Vontews@dnai.com Http://www.sharperview.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 16:30:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA17317; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:30:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA17262; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:29:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.8.2/UCD3.8.1) id QAA01097; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:29:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:29:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611050029.QAA01097@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Rick Riffle Subject: Samhain Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Had a blast. Beautiful setting. Beautiful people. Thank you to Triple Horn, and especially Avril for providing us with everything we needed and for just being who she is. The ambient area was moved inside due to sound complaints from the neighbors, but the indoor space had couches and a fire place, and was all around better as far as I was concerned. I was pleagued with gear problems for the first 1.5 hours of our set and had a strange time because several times while I was freaking out because some piece of electronica wasn't making any sound and to me the song sounded terrible to me without it, someone would walk up and shake my hand and tell me it was great or incredible or something like that.....and I had to thank them and mean it. Those interactions gave me the most odd feeling. Then near the end of the C-lab set, RE: went back on and mixed live stuff with records with C-lab and just pretty much freestyled for a couple hours. Felix joined in on the decks as well, and that whole jam session just rocked. We all had so much fun. I got to feel that synergy that can be created between live musicians....which doesn't always happen when everything is played from disk. Mega fun. Didn't spend very much time in the trace room because I liked the couches in the other space. rick "Let me have silence always in the centre of the shouting, that is essential. Let me have silence so that no pin may drop and not be heard, and not a whisper. Escape us for all our spouting, nor the needle scratching upon this gramophone of the circular cosmic spot. Hear me, mark me, learn me, throw the mind's ear open. Shut up the mind's eye, all will be music. What sculpture of sound cannot, what cannot as a fluid token words, that nothing else cannot." -Wyndham Lewis From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 16:41:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA18401; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA18378; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:41:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA03140 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:41:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA12910; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:32:41 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:32:41 -0800 (PST) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: Bumper Stickers To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk "Ravers Do It From the Heart" "Ravers Do It to the Beat" "Ravers Do It in Groups" "Ravers Do It Anywhere" "Ravers Do It Without Permission" "Ravers Do It Without Corporate Sponsorship" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 16:42:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA18485; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA18452; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:41:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA03222 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA12924; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:33:29 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:33:29 -0800 (PST) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: Tear Down Acme?? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ravers shouldn't have to face injury, death or the fire marshall just so they can dance... but tearing down the Acme? Isn't that building a historical landmark? It's OLLDDDDDD, folks. Brick - means it was built before the earthquake codes of post-1906. Narrow hallways, high ceilings. It's probably one of the original buildings of downtown San Francisco!! I have a consuming passion for raving, but also a serious side fascination with history, interesting buildings, and where they converge: PRESERVATION!! Save the Acme! Let's turn it into a museum of raving ;). From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 16:43:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA18630; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:43:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA18604; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:43:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA03274 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:42:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA12936; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:33:48 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:33:48 -0800 (PST) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: Bday Thanks! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk To all the beautiful people who sent me birthday wishes, thank you so much! I have lost all your messages (and, actually, EVERYTHING from Nov 1 and 2) because the fucking server at my fucking work goes down constantly . But THANK YOU again, and I hope you all danced your asses off for me at Mantra, Karma, Nikita?!, or wherever you ended up that night. I, for one, partook of an excellent meal and wine quite late and promptly fell asleep. :P what a party animal!! --N From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 16:47:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA18952; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:47:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA18930; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA03504 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:44:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA12993; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:36:44 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:36:44 -0800 (PST) From: Nancy Shaw Reply-To: Nancy Shaw Subject: Rave Togs and Childish Sexuality To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Interesting to see the analysis of little-girl sexuality in rave fashion... I suppose what is "taboo" (the sexual attractiveness of children) becomes what is most exciting to us... That also accounts for the ever-alluring Catholic School Girl trope. However, pigtails and Elmos always held a different meaning for me within the scene. For me, it is a place to shed the constraints of "adulthood," with its seriousness and conformity, and rediscover the sacred place of childhood. To find the "child within," the joyfulness at simply being, the ultimate pleasure in the present moment. To be like a child, in that way, and to also return to a place where personal change is possible. To make yourself anew with the optimism and joy and faith of a child, before cynicism and resignation corrupts it. So I pull my hair back in pigtails and I sprinkle myself with glitter and Cookie Monster usually rides around with me - the costuming becomespart of the ritual of going back to Babyhood! That is its meaning for ME - a direct result of an e-revelation. I realize that for many others, rave fashion has different meaning. Whether it is the suggested sexuality of little-girl looks, or the oppressive hand of the fashion industry spoonfeeding alterna-culture to a huge market of teens (with cash!) , "the baby look" means many things. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 16:50:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA19328; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:50:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA19267; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA03882 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA13038; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:41:12 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:41:11 -0800 (PST) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: RideSharin' Ravers (BERKELEY!) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I sent the call out a while ago to all ravers in the immediate Berkeley area, and so far have six responses (TWO of whom are living outside the Bay Area and intend to return in a year!!) So, are there only FOUR of us who would like to carpool from B-town (or North Oak, or Albanytown, or EC-town?) I know there are more desperate, carless ravers, and more car-owning, ride-giving ravers out there - so send me a note! Berkeley or close by only tell me: neighborhood you live in your phone number whether you have a car Thanks!! love, n From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 16:52:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA19524; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:52:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA19514; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:52:05 -0800 (PST) From: Hughdhyana@aol.com Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com (emout07.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.22]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26622 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:52:02 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA01954 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:48:40 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:48:40 -0500 Message-ID: <961104194839_1847290695@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR: VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk just a reminder to..... VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE! VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE! *If you don't vote you're giving away your personal power in our government! And, you should be giving away your right to bitch about anything. Express yourself!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE ! It only takes fifteen minutes! Kill the apathy! Use your power! VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOT E!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 17:02:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA20368; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:02:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA20360; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:02:42 -0800 (PST) From: Hughdhyana@aol.com Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com (emout16.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.42]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA26900 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:02:37 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA17466 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:59:28 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:59:28 -0500 Message-ID: <961104195926_1880845047@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: need info on the Harmony thing Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Could someone send me the 411 on that bar-B-Q in the day and boogie all night that's happening sometime soon.(?) -thanks- -hugh From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 17:03:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA20465; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:03:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA20460; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:03:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu (nak.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.206.21]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA01539 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:06:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA05356 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:01:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA13150; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:53:04 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:53:03 -0800 (PST) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: (NRR!) Berkeley House Party To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey Berkeley Partiers, There is a VERY NON-RAVE-LIKE party at my co-op (Castro) this Saturday night. It is your basic raging, college, kegs o'beer type party. Info: BANDS -- Missing Link (ska), Jalopy $4 with 18+ id this is a food drive as well - please bring a can of something there will be plenty of bad beer email me if you need more info sorry for NRR content! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 17:07:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA20848; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:07:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from holonet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA20836; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from impactsf (root@localhost) by holonet.net with UUCP id RAA07964; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:07:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199611050107.RAA07964@holonet.net> Received: by impactsf.com (Claris OfficeMail 1.0) with SMTP; Mon, 04 Nov 1996 16:23:56 -0800 From: "Andre Lucero" Subject: Sorta RR : The functional rave drink Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 16:23:50 -0800 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 To: "Sleepy People" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I haven't openned the bottle yet, but someone just plopped it on my desk... Caffeine Charged *** EDGE 2-O *** This is natural, non-carbonated, CAFFEINATED spring water in a squeeze bottle. What will they think of next?! - Dre ************************************************ Galactic Uber-Pimp of the )))Vibra Zone((( ************************************************ Sonic Mood Enhancement and Basic Love Vibrations for all my subjects...all the time From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 17:27:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA22494; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:27:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA22486; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:27:10 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (suc1a.corp.harris.com [137.237.104.13]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA27242 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:27:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id TAA22052; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:25:00 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06473; Mon, 4 Nov 96 16:24:58 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 27E97B90; Mon, 4 Nov 96 17:26:17 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:20:51 -0800 Message-Id: <27E97B90.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re[3]: full-on friday!!! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, Wayne Correia Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk say, that would be a good opportunity for one of those like hot dog stand raves they were talking about last week. 10 dollars includes a jumbo jack value meal...maybe someone should get with them. I could just see martin in there on the loudspeaker going "thanks all for coming to the pahrty. you may now go over to the ambient area for your breakfast jacks. say hi to someone. meet someone new for the first..." well, you know the routine. maybe a new boogie buffet location... "jack-in-the-boogie" or "boogie in the crack" maybe... maybe... ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re[2]: full-on friday!!! Author: Wayne Correia at ccsmtp Date: 11/4/96 3:41 PM At 2:48 PM -0800 11/4/96, TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com wrote: > like a big bronze raver statue with space-age sunglassesand a big, > funky hat. almost reminiscent to a parade float. the rest of the > area would just be left demolished. Well, you're close. ACME's going to become a Jack In The Box restaurant. How about sunglasses for Jack? :-) ____________________________________________________________________________ Wayne D. Correia +1.415.826.6000 900 Tennessee Street fax +1.415.826.6100 San Francisco, CA 94107 ____________________________________________________________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 18:22:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA27678; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:22:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA27664; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:22:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00846 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:19:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA847160884; Mon, 04 Nov 96 18:12:39 pst Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 18:12:39 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9610048471.AA847160884@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: SFR UnBumper Sticker Super Wet Blanket Post Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Almost forgot... obviously pro-raving bumper stickers might seriously decrease our ability to park anywhere near an illegal party (you know, the good kind), should they actually be used on ravemobile bumpers. Stickers are generally good... Perhaps we should consider an 'unbumper sticker', perfect for lunchboxes, binders, DJ crates, coffins, clothing, naked flesh, stables, file cabinets and speaker cabinets with explicit fine print discouraging actual bumper use. Or not. AndyW And from the cryptic memories department... All hail the bright and mighty Orange "DISCO" sticker. Whose idea was that anyway? Simple, elegant, and oh so sexy under blacklight. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 18:47:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA29625; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:47:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA29620; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:47:49 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com (emout04.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.95]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA29448 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:47:46 -0600 (CST) Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA03470 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:38:39 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:38:39 -0500 Message-ID: <961104213839_135822154@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: (NRR)Positive healing energy Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Just got back from the Doctor and I have strep throat! Can I please have some +++++ energy sent my way so i can feel better!:) Jonathan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 18:51:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA29840; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:51:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mom.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA29827; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:51:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (webe-60.ppp.hooked.net [206.80.9.60]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.0/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA24059 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:50:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611050250.SAA24059@mom.hooked.net> From: "Mr nStuff" To: Subject: Del: SFR Bumper Sticker Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:44:35 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BBCA80.39F1E780" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BBCA80.39F1E780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone said this one yet? ((I'd rather be raving)) =]: ...:.. ------=_NextPart_000_01BBCA80.39F1E780 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Has anyone said this one = yet?



((I'd rather be = raving))



=3D]: ...:..

 ------=_NextPart_000_01BBCA80.39F1E780-- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 18:51:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA29895; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:51:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA29817; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:50:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA12403; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:50:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA10573; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:46:16 -0800 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199611050246.SAA10573@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: NRR: VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE! To: Hughdhyana@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:46:16 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <961104194839_1847290695@emout07.mail.aol.com> from "Hughdhyana@aol.com" at Nov 4, 96 07:48:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hi, how do we find out WHERE to vote? -ann From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 19:29:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA02774; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:29:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from libra.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA02747; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:28:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from glow@localhost) by libra.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id TAA06758; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:28:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:28:47 -0800 (PST) From: BRUCE ALVIN MCDONOUGH Message-Id: <199611050328.TAA06758@libra.sfsu.edu> To: vontews@dnai.com Subject: Re: spaz Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Peter- I've been to spaz a few times, but that was probably almost two years ago, down on 6th St. (lovely neighborhood, bring the kids,........NOT!). I heard they did something at Burning Man and Some kind of tour in Colorado and such, but I haven't heard of anything in SF in a long time... They did have good music and *Live* techno which was really excellent. Very small, cool vibee, thought I. Bruce From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 19:45:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA03849; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:45:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA03835; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:44:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from 207.93.61.171 (sfo-ca27-43.ix.netcom.com [207.93.61.171]) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA11849 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:44:21 -0800 Message-ID: <327EC90B.3886@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 20:56:43 -0800 From: Dan Capriles Reply-To: c9d@ix.netcom.com Organization: Cloud Nine Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Paging tim..da knucklehead Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey tim..i lost your addee and need to ask u a question. So can u..or someone send it to me. Thanks, micron From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 19:58:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA04702; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:58:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from svpal.svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA04692; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:57:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from djtom@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA08311; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:39:25 -0700 (PPET) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:39:25 -0700 (PPET) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: Re: (NRR)Positive healing energy/ fractal harmonics To: Jondabomb@aol.com cc: Happy Ravers In-Reply-To: <961104213839_135822154@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 4 Nov 1996 Jondabomb@aol.com wrote: > Just got back from the Doctor and I have strep throat! Can I please have some > +++++ energy sent my way so i can feel better!:) > Jonathan looks like a class 3 request for divine vibrations in teh third dimention, captain, coming in thru Earths physical manifestation of teh crystal grid. yes, data, but what can be done? the acceleration of earths assention into the forth dimention in jons perscieved position in the universe allows a breif but precise pulsation to be made manifest into his time, should he be capable to resonate to that pulsation, healing will be inevitable. is there any danger in it? entering calculations.... ...the crystal grid can hold the transmission w/o any dissonant vibrations. excelent. make it so. -> zzzzzaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaapppppppppp <- ;) tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 20:01:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA05016; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from saclink3.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA05009; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:01:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by saclink3.csus.edu (1.40.112.6/16.2) id AA106226468; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:01:08 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 20:01:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: NRR: VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE! To: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199611050246.SAA10573@uclink.berkeley.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Ann Elizabeth Loraine wrote: > how do we find out WHERE to vote? After you have registered to vote (and you would have had to register by a certain deadline) you are then sent a voter pamphlet and on it by your address is the address of your polling place. love, Amy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 21:53:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA13620; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA13615; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:53:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from 206.86.220.227 (bwret.vip.best.com [206.86.220.227]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA11278; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:09:48 -0800 Message-ID: <327EA20B.5C87@best.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:10:19 -0700 From: Alex X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ann Elizabeth Loraine CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR Where to vote!!! References: <199611050246.SAA10573@uclink.berkeley.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ann Elizabeth Loraine wrote: > > hi, > > how do we find out WHERE to vote? > > -ann Santa Clara County: 408 299-8639 Alameda: 510 272-6973 San Mateo: 415 312-5222 Santa Cruz: 408 454-2060 If you're in some other area, I'm sure they'll give you the # you need. -peace and prop 215- alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 23:24:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA19172; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:24:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from war.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA19130; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:23:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from etheon (surf0007.sybase.com [206.26.54.7]) by war.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA23056 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:21:31 -0800 (PST) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Dave Bayer Subject: Re: spaz X-Originating-Host: etheon Reply-To: dlb@OCF.Berkeley.EDU In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <1996Nov05.071053+0000@etheon> Date: 05 Nov 1996 06:57:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Hummingbird EMail for Windows NT Version 5.0 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In , Peter Von Tews wrote: >Has anybody been to any spaz parties? >tell me about 'em, I had a quite an adventure one time! Parties of another vibe than is perlavent in SF. An experience to be behold... old acid parties from a different continent... >are any comin up? They are going to be doing a biweekily thing soon, first one on the 15th of this month (a Friday)... dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 23:44:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA20540; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:44:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA20529; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:44:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.134.228.37] (ppp064-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.64]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id XAA10042; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:42:52 -0800 X-Sender: sddpw@pop.sirius.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:45:11 -0800 To: "Andy Wyszkowski" , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: sddpw@sirius.com (Shimako-Dominguez Department of Public Works) Subject: Re: SFR UnBumper Sticker Super Wet Blanket Post Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm groovin' on Andy's ideas (attached below) #1 - I don't have a car! (but I have a bicycle that loves small stickers) #2 - Smaller stickers are good for sticking everywhere and anywhere #3 - I love stickers/posters where u see a symbol and you're thinking - What in hell does that mean? - a la the magical mushroom campaign underway around San Francisco (is that for Mushroom Jazz? or something uniquely bizarre?) #4-10 - all the other things that Andy said. Large or small, I would definitely throw in some green to support the fruition of this project. Will also investigate the cheapest place to get stickers printed (bumper vs non-bumper), unless someone is already hooked up on this aspect of the idea. > Almost forgot... obviously pro-raving bumper stickers might seriously > decrease our ability to park anywhere near an illegal party (you know, > the good kind), should they actually be used on ravemobile bumpers. > > Stickers are generally good... Perhaps we should consider an 'unbumper > sticker', perfect for lunchboxes, binders, DJ crates, coffins, > clothing, naked flesh, stables, file cabinets and speaker cabinets > with explicit fine print discouraging actual bumper use. > > Or not. > > AndyW > > And from the cryptic memories department... > All hail the bright and mighty Orange "DISCO" sticker. Whose idea was > that anyway? Simple, elegant, and oh so sexy under blacklight. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Nov 4 23:50:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA20889; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from holland.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA20882; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:50:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [153.34.134.145] (Cust17.Max1.Santa-Clara.CA.MS.UU.NET [153.34.134.145]) by holland.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA04335 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:49:57 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: lexical@earthlink.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:58:34 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lexical@earthlink.com (Plex) Subject: Re: NRR: Friendship (fwd) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Jay Wiley wrote: >>> > Friends Through the Years... >>> > As we have grown and changed so have our ideas on friendship.... >>> >1. In kindergarten your idea of a good friend was the person who >>> > let you have the red crayon when all that was left was the ugly >>> > black one. > >Nice, but you forgot one: > >17. When you're 90 years old and sitting in an old folks home, your idea o= f >a good friend is a person who let's you have the blue crayon when all that >was left was the ugly brown one... One more: 18. When you're 90 years old and sitting in an old folks home, your idea o= f a good friend is one that leaves you with all their pain killers when they go rave in the big bass bin in the sky. -plex- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 00:03:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA21939; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:03:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA21922; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:02:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA05125 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:13:28 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:13:27 -0800 (PST) From: Dan To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Bumper sticker Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk How about "Ravers do it to a faster beat" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 00:07:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA22417; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:07:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA22368; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:06:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from (rlunatic@sjx-ca56-36.ix.netcom.com [205.186.122.100]) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA18648; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:06:21 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:06:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199611050806.AAA18648@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> From: rlunatic@ix.netcom.com (Adam Luong) Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker To: qhelp@newton.apple.com (Ivan Vasquez) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >How about : > > >Ravers do it underground. > I like dat one.. =)~ Adam From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 00:34:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA24581; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:34:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA24540; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id AAA02205; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:34:22 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id AAA23902; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:34:21 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:34:21 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: (NRR) Happy =) To: Know 1 cc: sfraves , Is it Trance? <604@party.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all! =) Well I felt like someone just blasted me with happiness. Thanks!!! Here is some back; !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I LOVE LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! peace y'all, Ran (Namasate) / -=*=-/ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 02:25:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id CAA06933; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 02:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id CAA06918; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 02:25:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA11449; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 02:25:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (trose@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA22259; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 02:22:15 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 02:22:15 -0800 (PST) From: Tony Rose To: Nancy Shaw cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Tear Down Acme?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk tear the shit DOWN!!!!!!what is the point of keeping an old building around for that is not any use????? certainly not a rave 'museum ha ha ha I dont want to look around and say...gee thats what raving WAS about..I want to look around myself and say ....FUCK YEAH...THIS!@!!! is what raving is about...right here right now!! tear the deathtrap down and build something suitable to safety and dance! * * ** *** ***** ******** ************* "hi, whats your name?" Tony Rose UC Berkeley CS http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~trose ************** ******* ***** *** ** * * On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Nancy Shaw wrote: > > > Ravers shouldn't have to face injury, death or the fire marshall just so > they can dance... but tearing down the Acme? Isn't that building a > historical landmark? It's OLLDDDDDD, folks. Brick - means it was built > before the earthquake codes of post-1906. Narrow hallways, high > ceilings. It's probably one of the original buildings of downtown San Francisco!! > > I have a consuming passion for raving, but also a serious side > fascination with history, interesting buildings, and where they converge: > PRESERVATION!! Save the Acme! Let's turn it into a museum of raving ;). > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 07:17:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id HAA00715; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 07:17:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id HAA00708; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 07:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id HAA09428 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 07:17:29 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 07:17:29 -0800 (PST) From: Melissa Wong To: sfraves Subject: NRR: Help! I'm Drowning! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The mid-term sunami has hit me!!! Aggghhh!!! HELP!!!!! blurb.....blurb.....blurb ************************************************************** Go to the mountains and the oceans and the forest, go naked in the summertime that you may regain the old joy and love gladly and freely under the stars. -John Whiteside Parson ************************************************************** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 08:12:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA05736; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:12:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA05726; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:12:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from Ebay.Sun.COM ([129.150.111.20]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id IAA21369 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:11:49 -0800 Received: from dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM by Ebay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id IAA17699; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:11:45 -0800 Received: by dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA07280; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:09:44 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:09:44 -0800 From: guillermo.lemus@Ebay.Sun.COM (Guillermo Lemus) Message-Id: <199611051609.IAA07280@dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: SFR UnBumper Sticker Super Wet Blanket Post X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk All How about those removable (sp?) plastic stickers that can go on windows and such? Just my two sense, VERTIGO (memo) > From awyszkow@smtplink.acer.com Mon Nov 4 18:21:32 1996 > Date: Mon, 04 Nov 96 18:12:39 pst > From: "Andy Wyszkowski" > To: sfraves@hyperreal.com > Subject: SFR UnBumper Sticker Super Wet Blanket Post > > > Almost forgot... obviously pro-raving bumper stickers might seriously > decrease our ability to park anywhere near an illegal party (you know, > the good kind), should they actually be used on ravemobile bumpers. > > Stickers are generally good... Perhaps we should consider an 'unbumper > sticker', perfect for lunchboxes, binders, DJ crates, coffins, > clothing, naked flesh, stables, file cabinets and speaker cabinets > with explicit fine print discouraging actual bumper use. > > Or not. > > AndyW > > And from the cryptic memories department... > All hail the bright and mighty Orange "DISCO" sticker. Whose idea was > that anyway? Simple, elegant, and oh so sexy under blacklight. > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 08:29:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA07044; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA07036; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id IAA11909; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:31:36 -0800 Message-Id: <199611051631.IAA11909@precipice.v-site.net> From: "Geoff White" To: "Nancy Shaw" , Subject: Re: Tear Down Acme?? Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:24:49 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Nancy Shaw > To: sfraves@hyperreal.com > Subject: Tear Down Acme?? > Date: Monday, November 04, 1996 4:33 PM > > > > Ravers shouldn't have to face injury, death or the fire marshall just so > they can dance... but tearing down the Acme? Isn't that building a > historical landmark? It's OLLDDDDDD, folks. Brick - means it was built > before the earthquake codes of post-1906. Narrow hallways, high > ceilings. It's probably one of the original buildings of downtown San Francisco!! > > I have a consuming passion for raving, but also a serious side > fascination with history, interesting buildings, and where they converge: > PRESERVATION!! Save the Acme! Let's turn it into a museum of raving ;). No tear it down , the building is unsafe, many a party have i mused that if The Big One came while we were raving insit=d of that place (or just a mundane old fire) we'd all be off to raver heaven. As long as it's standing people will be tempted to use it. G From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 08:37:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA07758; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:37:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA07753; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:37:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (raygun@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00405; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:36:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:36:52 -0800 (PST) From: Reagan Reid To: Amy R Starkey cc: Ann Elizabeth Loraine , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Yes, but unfortunately there are many people out there, like me, who did not get this packet. It was in the local paper here and the same thing happened last year. A computer error is to blame. Damn computers;). Ann- try looking in the phone book under the Gov't pages under voter registeration. Good luck:). Reagan On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Amy R Starkey wrote: > > On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Ann Elizabeth Loraine wrote: > > > how do we find out WHERE to vote? > > After you have registered to vote (and you would have had to register by > a certain deadline) you are then sent a voter pamphlet and on it by your > address is the address of your polling place. > > love, > Amy > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 08:39:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA08003; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA07997; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:39:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv1.apple.com (A17-128-100-119.apple.com [17.128.100.119]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA50326 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:38:12 -0800 Received: from newton.apple.com (newton.apple.com [17.205.32.200]) by scv1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA11392 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:40:28 -0800 Received: from [17.205.32.116] by newton.apple.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14087; Tue, 5 Nov 96 08:39:54 PST Date: Tue, 5 Nov 96 08:39:54 PST Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: qhelp@newton.apple.com (Ivan Vasquez) Subject: don't forget to vote yes on 215! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk LEGALIZE IT!! Vote YES on 215! Make California a better place! PLUR and 420! Bonghitter! 42042042042042042042042042042042042 2 Ivan Vasquez 0 0 Qhelp and K.info Hardware Assistance 4 4 qhelp@newton.apple.com 2 2 k.info@newton.apple.com 0 0 I'm located in R&D5 4 4 3rd Floor cube B357 2 20420420420420420420420420420420420 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 08:45:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA08553; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:45:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from misnt1.rely.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA08540; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:44:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by misnt1.rely.com with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.837.3) id <01BBCAF6.4F1CE580@misnt1.rely.com>; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:49:52 -0800 Message-ID: From: Adam Guevara To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" , "'qhelp@newton.apple.com'" Subject: RE: don't forget to vote yes on 215! Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:49:49 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.837.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Wow, If Prop215 does go through it give CA ravers FOUR times... 4:20 and 2:15... I see all the 215 parties after Valentimes day allready... Adam "Stay Connected..." >---------- >From: qhelp@newton.apple.com >Subject: don't forget to vote yes on 215! > >LEGALIZE IT!! Vote YES on 215! Make California a better place! > >PLUR and 420! >Bonghitter! > >42042042042042042042042042042042042 >2 Ivan Vasquez 0 >0 Qhelp and K.info Hardware Assistance 4 >4 qhelp@newton.apple.com 2 >2 k.info@newton.apple.com 0 >0 I'm located in R&D5 4 >4 3rd Floor cube B357 2 >20420420420420420420420420420420420 > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 09:29:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA12480; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:29:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA12470; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:29:21 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04646; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:29:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:29:00 -0800 (PST) To: Adam Guevara cc: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" , "'qhelp@newton.apple.com'" Subject: RE: don't forget to vote yes on 215! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Adam Guevara wrote: > Wow, > > If Prop215 does go through it give CA ravers FOUR > > times... 4:20 and 2:15... > > I see all the 215 parties after Valentimes day allready... Go and read the Propostion. It's purpose is not to legalize pot for you and I. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 09:53:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA14844; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:53:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA14837; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from natasha.coolware.com (verbum.vip.best.com [206.86.221.178]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA23079 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:48:11 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961105174631.00729b78@best.com> X-Sender: mdpkl@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 09:46:31 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" Subject: voting day south-park lunch Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hello all fellow ravers, geels, democrats, republicans, greens, liberatarians, and anyone i forgot to mention- in honor of of voting day, (and just because i feel like it) i'm inviting everybody to a tuesday afternoon lunch in south park. over the past couple of weeks, new and different ravers have been meeting somewhere in multimedia gulch for lunch, good chatting, and playing with various toys (for those of us who don't get enough of that at work). so far, the groups have been intimate, the talk varied, the politics ..., well, you know. today, lunch is at: the corner of 3'rd street and townsend (in the beautiful south of market in lovely san francisco) at the "pallette cafe and deli". when: well, today! more specifically, at noon till whenever you need to leave (i just camp out there and work, but that's me!). what: good food, vegan, vegetarian, and carnivore friendly. a various assortment of sandwhiches, pitas, fallafels, and other stuff with a distinctly eastern european flare! so, if you wanna come, why don't you get back to me by e-mail ( mailto:mdpkl@best.com ) or phone (there's no phoneto: protocol yet, unfortunately! 415-777-9901 and ask for matt). come! eat! enjoy a beautiful south park day! and vote!!!!! i love you all, and hope you have a wonderful, loving day- matt l matthew d. p. k. lanier professional hugger and empath mailto:mdpkl@best.com 415-752-3218 _______ / \ / o o \ | ^ | | | ___ \ \_/ / ___ __(___\ \__ __/ /___)__ (______ \________\ /_________/ ______) (_______ ____________________ _______) (______ / \ ______) (_____/ \_____) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 10:03:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA17805; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:03:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout02.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA17629; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:03:39 -0800 (PST) From: BMGAUTHIER@aol.com Received: by emout02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA03052; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:03:04 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:03:04 -0500 Message-ID: <961105130303_1416947131@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: blkadder@value.net, aguevara@rely.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, qhelp@newton.apple.com Subject: Re: RE: don't forget to vote yes on 215! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Adam Guevara wrote: > Wow, > > If Prop215 does go through it give CA ravers FOUR > > times... 4:20 and 2:15... > > I see all the 215 parties after Valentimes day allready... >>Go and read the Propostion. It's purpose is not to legalize pot >>for you >>and I. Black Adder But it is a step in the right direction! Goat. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 10:14:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA21164; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:14:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from odin.cair.du.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA21148; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:14:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by odin.cair.du.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/19Apr96-0816AM) id AA03197; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:14:00 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:13:59 -0700 (MST) From: bioplay To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: Drum N' Bass/Ambient fan needs advice In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello I am new to this list and the San Francisco area and I wanted to get advice about good parties clubs featuring good inteligent jungle and ambient music. I am not a fan of most trance or house but prefer artists like Richard James, Goldie, Underworld, and Beaumont Hannant. Where can I go to hear DJ's play this kind of music? I am planning on going to see the Chemical Bros. and A Guy Called Gerald, DJ Octagon (Thansgiving rave -forgot the name) and would like to hook up with others going to these events. Thanks Damon VISIT THE HYPERSTAION HOME OF THE SPRAWL, THE FARM, POETRY, MUSIC, TECHNO-EROTIC LINKS, AND MORE! http://www.du.edu/~dhaley From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 10:30:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA22709; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:30:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA22669; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:30:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from greg (sjx-ca29-26.ix.netcom.com [204.31.235.154]) by mail.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id KAA05796; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:30:43 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961105181307.006c5094@ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: ascend@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 10:13:07 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Harmony!!! Subject: "Wrinkle in Time" MEETING (info) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello everyone, There will be a meeting this Thursday Nov. 7th @ 8pm, at Steven's Creek "City Esspresso." This meeting will be a ton more productive than the last one (Honestly). Please come if you are interested in helping with Omar's party, and/or future Harmony parties. Everyone who responded to my "Artists" post please try to make it! Thanks in advance!! Directions: From S.F. : Take the 101so -> 85so -> 280so (or just take 280so) -> the Steven's Creek/ Lawrence Expessway Exit. Go left at the light and back underneath the freeway. You will see a "Payless" Drug store on your left. Go into that lot, and "City Espresso" will be right there. From the East Bay: Take 880so -> 280 no (or take 680so -> 280no) -> the Lawrence Expressway exit. Take a right ast the light and go immediately to your left lane and turn into the parking lot with "Payless" Drug Store. We'll be there! From South S.J. or Santa Cruz: Take 280no -> follow the directions from the eastbay. Hope to see some of you there. We could really use some help with this one, so please come if you can!! Peace, love and harmony to all!!! Greg =) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 11:01:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA25325; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:01:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA25253; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:00:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy1.ba.best.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA09499 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:56:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.86.235.114] (lesliea.vip.best.com [206.86.235.114]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA24813 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:55:18 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:55:18 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lesliea@best.com (Leslie Ayres) Subject: Re: NRR: VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I don't think I got the normal voter packet.... However, I did get a mailer from the League of Women Voters, and their computer inserted my polling place on the front ...s o check your election miscellaneous mail for your polling place... and if that doesn't work ... go next door and ask your neighbor or go to the nearest school/govt building and you have a good chance of finding a polling place, and if it's not yours, they might know which is! Leslie XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -O- -- [8 ._. 8] . _____. . \___/ . From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 11:01:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA25440; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:01:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA25404; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:01:29 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01879; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:50:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:50:14 -0800 (PST) To: BMGAUTHIER@aol.com cc: aguevara@rely.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com, qhelp@newton.apple.com Subject: Re: RE: don't forget to vote yes on 215! In-Reply-To: <961105130303_1416947131@emout02.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996 BMGAUTHIER@aol.com wrote: > On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Adam Guevara wrote: > > > Wow, > > > > If Prop215 does go through it give CA ravers FOUR > > > > times... 4:20 and 2:15... > > > > I see all the 215 parties after Valentimes day allready... > > >>Go and read the Propostion. It's purpose is not to legalize pot >>for you > >>and I. > > Black Adder > > But it is a step in the right direction! I just get the impression that a *lot* of people shouting PROP 215! PROP 215! are missing the point of what the propostion is supposed to do. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 11:04:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA25748; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:04:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA25614; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:02:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy1.ba.best.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA08765 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:51:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.86.235.114] (lesliea.vip.best.com [206.86.235.114]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA20287 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:50:15 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:50:15 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lesliea@best.com (Leslie Ayres) Subject: Re: SFR UnBumper Sticker Super Wet Blanket Post Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk My thoughts exactly ... remember, our friends in blue read your bumper stickers too, and you increase your chances of being pulled over or picked out of the crowd .... so those of you whose car says "only users lose drugs" on the rear end, now you know why you keep getting pulled over! I'd love a mini-sticker or patch that I could put on my pack! Leslie > Almost forgot... obviously pro-raving bumper stickers might seriously > decrease our ability to park anywhere near an illegal party (you know, > the good kind), should they actually be used on ravemobile bumpers. > > Stickers are generally good... Perhaps we should consider an 'unbumper > sticker', perfect for lunchboxes, binders, DJ crates, coffins, > clothing, naked flesh, stables, file cabinets and speaker cabinets > with explicit fine print discouraging actual bumper use. > > Or not. > > AndyW > > And from the cryptic memories department... > All hail the bright and mighty Orange "DISCO" sticker. Whose idea was > that anyway? Simple, elegant, and oh so sexy under blacklight. XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -O- -- [8 ._. 8] . _____. . \___/ . From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 11:06:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA26113; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:06:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA26074; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:06:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from x-xn-ngm-smtp.cinops.xerox.com ([13.250.20.12]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15448(4)>; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:05:41 PST X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 05-Nov-1996 11:04:58 -0500; at X-WE-XN-AREA.XN X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 5-Nov-1996 12:04:11 -0500; at X-XN-NGM-SMTP.XN X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 05-Nov-1996 11:03:51 -0500; at X-PA-PAHV-MS4.XN Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:07:22 PST From: Diane_Tabellija@xn.xerox.com (Tabellija,Diane) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: RE: Bumper sticker Message-Id: <"DA627F32813E657C@X-PA-PAHV-MS4.XN"@-SMF-> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi, all! I've been in lurk mode for awhile but I just have to pipe in w/my $.02. I kinda like small stickers and my personal preference is to keep any sexual innuendo out of it. I like easily recognizable logos so you can see it far away. A reflective base helps, too. Provided this isn't trademarked, the heart in a silhouetted house symbol similiar to the flag that used to fly at Sunsets (did they put it up this year?) is nice and simple. It can also confuse many people who think it's a family values ad campaign (home is in the heart)...Perhaps we could add a twist of creating a "techno" symbol (sin wave?) within the heart ('cause w/o technology, the music wouldn't resonate w/in us quite the same way). I also like the idea of not just a familiar symbol but making it look like an official parking permit so when we do go out, perhaps parking enforcers might think twice before ticketing (yeah, right...at least it won't stick out and say "Pull me over and check me out, I'm a raver!"). So you could have the logo and "Good thru 2012" permit from the "Universal Groove Honor Society" (acronym is UGH!). Okay, so I'm a little out there, but I just wanted to add my ideas to the thought bank. Cheers! Diane ---------- From: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Cc: Dan Subject: Bumper sticker Date: Monday, November 04, 1996 4:13PM How about "Ravers do it to a faster beat" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 11:11:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA26745; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:11:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA26686; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:10:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA26792; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:10:38 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:10:38 -0800 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199611051910.LAA26792@netcom17.netcom.com> To: blkadder@value.net CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-reply-to: (blkadder@value.net) Subject: Re: RE: don't forget to vote yes on 215! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > From: blkadder@value.net > Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:50:14 -0800 (PST) > > > > >>Go and read the Propostion. It's purpose is not to legalize pot >>for you > > >>and I. > > > > Black Adder > > > > But it is a step in the right direction! > > I just get the impression that a *lot* of people shouting PROP 215! PROP > 215! are missing the point of what the propostion is supposed to do. > But probably not as many people who are missing the point of "Yes on E" Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com saturn5@cyborganic.net | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-626-5074 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 11:17:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA28217; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:17:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA28212; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:17:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.8.2/UCD3.8.1) id LAA20321; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:17:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:17:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611051917.LAA20321@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bioplay From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: Drum N' Bass/Ambient fan needs advice Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, this Saturday the 9th, there will be a rave in Sacramento (1.5 hrs from SF), and RE: and Astronout (both live ambient electronic bands from the list) will be playing live and dj'ing ambient/idm in the ambient room all night. Live is all created by us, and I use RDJ, and Beaumont, Autechre, Photek, Orbital and other electronic wizards in my dj sets as well. It's called Synesthesia, and the number is (415) 273-1190. There will also be some drum and bass in the dance room as well, but not all night. Rick At 11:13 AM 11/5/96 -0700, you wrote: > >Hello I am new to this list and the San Francisco area and I wanted to >get advice about good parties clubs featuring good inteligent jungle and >ambient music. I am not a fan of most trance or house but prefer artists >like Richard James, Goldie, Underworld, and Beaumont Hannant. Where can >I go to hear DJ's play this kind of music? > >I am planning on going to see the Chemical Bros. and A Guy Called Gerald, >DJ Octagon (Thansgiving rave -forgot the name) and would like to hook up >with others going to these events. > >Thanks > >Damon > >VISIT THE HYPERSTAION >HOME OF THE SPRAWL, THE FARM, POETRY, MUSIC, TECHNO-EROTIC LINKS, AND MORE! >http://www.du.edu/~dhaley > > > "Let me have silence always in the centre of the shouting, that is essential. Let me have silence so that no pin may drop and not be heard, and not a whisper. Escape us for all our spouting, nor the needle scratching upon this gramophone of the circular cosmic spot. Hear me, mark me, learn me, throw the mind's ear open. Shut up the mind's eye, all will be music. What sculpture of sound cannot, what cannot as a fluid token words, that nothing else cannot." -Wyndham Lewis From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 11:28:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA29259; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:28:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rho.ben2.ucla.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA29241; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:28:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from kjde.sfsu.edu (slip-242.sfsu.edu [130.212.1.242]) by rho.ben2.ucla.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA21646 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:28:10 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961105193114.0067f0ac@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> X-Sender: jonasr@pop.ben2.ucla.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 11:31:14 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "jonas j. robledo" Subject: RE: don't forget to vote yes on 215! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 09:29 AM 11/5/96 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Adam Guevara wrote: > >> Wow, >> >> If Prop215 does go through it give CA ravers FOUR >> >> times... 4:20 and 2:15... >> >> I see all the 215 parties after Valentimes day allready... > >Go and read the Propostion. It's purpose is not to legalize pot for you >and I. > > Black Adder > true, but it's the first step. the proposition states that sic people like cancer patients can GROW there own doobage. how will the police know if you or i are not cancer patients when they see our ten foot plants in our backyards? as the law stands now, the police can disrupt our peace if they merely happen to see our plants or if a fu*kkked up neighbor decides to report us. so, although the prop was not created directly for us, it allows us the space and freedom to GROW. "wave on, wave on"-elmer fudd From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 11:44:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA00859; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:44:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from novo2.novomedia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA00845; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:44:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.162.123.82] by novo2.novomedia.com (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 148-12909) with SMTP id AAA29072; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:44:32 -0800 Message-ID: <327F8B9E.50E9@novomedia.com> Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 11:47:02 -0700 From: grace@novomedia.com (Grace de la Flor) Reply-To: grace@novomedia.com Organization: Novo Media Group X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Inquiry Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk PFIQ, the world's only magazine dedicated exclusively to body piercing, is currently working on a cyber issue. We want to interview and photograph pierced ravers, multimedia experts, internet junkies, bike messengers, zippies, and any other relevant people. We want to explore the area where piercing meets and blends with the ever expanding internet community. Do your piercings connect you to home and your humanity, are you using your piercings as one more way to distance yourself from boring reality, or do you have another philosophy about the connection? Whatever your take, we want to hear what you think! For more information, please contact michaela@gauntlet.com or phone 415-552-0505 x107. We pay for the professional photography and you'll get contributor's copies of the issue. www.gauntlet.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 11:44:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA00898; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:44:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA00872; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:44:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA29892; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:44:37 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:44:37 -0800 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199611051944.LAA29892@netcom17.netcom.com> To: jonasr@ucla.edu CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-reply-to: <1.5.4.32.19961105193114.0067f0ac@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> (jonasr@ucla.edu) Subject: RE: don't forget to vote yes on 215! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 11:31:14 -0800 > From: "jonas j. robledo" > >Go and read the Propostion. It's purpose is not to legalize pot for you > >and I. > > > > Black Adder > > > true, but it's the first step. the proposition states that sic people like > cancer patients can GROW there own doobage. how will the police know if you > or i are not cancer patients when they see our ten foot plants in our > backyards? as the law stands now, the police can disrupt our peace if they > merely happen to see our plants or if a fu*kkked up neighbor decides to > report us. so, although the prop was not created directly for us, it allows > us the space and freedom to GROW. > That's too bad. It's abuses like this that would get Prop 215 repealed or challenged in court, should it pass. Yes, Patrick had an excellent point: the measure is to support marijuana as a *medicine* for people who need it. This is not a measure for everyone to support so they can go smoke out. "Hey, officer, I have cancer, I need to grow this stuff...*wink* *wink*" I can see it now. It's only a matter of time before CBC would get busted again. If you *really* want to have a law to support marijuana for general use, then make your own ballot proposition for next the election decriminalizing possession. I'm sure you could get one million Californians to sign a petition for that ;) I'm still voting for 215. It sucks to be sick and suffering. Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com saturn5@cyborganic.net | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-626-5074 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 11:56:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA02030; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA02020; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:56:34 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA08133; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:56:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:56:25 -0800 (PST) To: Steve Simitzis cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: RE: don't forget to vote yes on 215! In-Reply-To: <199611051910.LAA26792@netcom17.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Steve Simitzis wrote: > > > From: blkadder@value.net > > Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:50:14 -0800 (PST) > > > > > > > >>Go and read the Propostion. It's purpose is not to legalize pot >>for you > > > >>and I. > > > > > > Black Adder > > > > > > But it is a step in the right direction! > > > > I just get the impression that a *lot* of people shouting PROP 215! PROP > > 215! are missing the point of what the propostion is supposed to do. > > > > But probably not as many people who are missing the point of "Yes on E" A little different I think.. ;-) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 12:06:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA02982; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:06:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA02974; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:06:14 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08876; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:05:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:05:56 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: blkadder@value.net To: "jonas j. robledo" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: RE: don't forget to vote yes on 215! In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961105193114.0067f0ac@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, jonas j. robledo wrote: > > > >Go and read the Propostion. It's purpose is not to legalize pot for you > >and I. > > > > Black Adder > > > true, but it's the first step. the proposition states that sic people like > cancer patients can GROW there own doobage. how will the police know if you > or i are not cancer patients when they see our ten foot plants in our > backyards? as the law stands now, the police can disrupt our peace if they > merely happen to see our plants or if a fu*kkked up neighbor decides to > report us. so, although the prop was not created directly for us, it allows > us the space and freedom to GROW. And this type of deception is what will lead to a call for a repeal of the Proposition. Prop 215 is really a great idea. Legalization for everyone else is a good idea. But as seperate and distinct issues. If people misuse 215 so they can smoke out and get caught, the people that this Prop is supposed to help, that is Aids patients, Cancer patients, etc. will suffer as the Prop is repealed. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 12:29:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA05390; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA05362; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:29:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA02492 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:29:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA17472; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:20:42 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:20:41 -0800 (PST) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: VOTE! Nancy's Pix '96 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This has to be short and sweet - the boss is due back any sec. So, a rundown on the most important issues (for me): PREZ This one's a toss-up: a last-minute decision made in the booth, I'm sure. Torn between Ole Boy Bill (would have to hold my nose on that one), Ralph for the anti-globalization message, Marcia for the totally idealistic, socialist values message, and even Ross for the what-the-fuck-are-we-doing-with-this-fucking-deficit message. Thank bob that Dole is SO far behind that we have the luxury of choosing between alternatives, and are not so chained to the "lesser-of-two-evils" type of choice we usually have. BUT I'll check the exit polls before I vote to make sure Clinton is winning in Cal before even considering the "throw-away" alternate-party vote. Remember, whoever takes Cali. wins. Prop 209 Gee, wouldn't it be wonderful to have a color-blind, gender-equal society where there is no discrimination and everyone has the exact same life opportunities? Unfortunately folks, we ain't there yet! VOTE NO. This one eradicates such awful things as extra tutoring, special efforts at recruitment, and other programs aimed at welcoming those historically excluded in higher ed and employment. Don't forget the pernicious, obscure "Clause C": women may be discriminated against for causes "reasonable and necessary to their gender": i.e. going back to the days of barring women from "dangerous" (and high-paying) occupations because they might someday get pregnant, not having to build facilities for women (like the notorious no-women's bathrooms in our State Capitol until the late '70's!!!) Prop 215 Compassionate use of marijuana to treat people who are suffering. This one is cake. The ones opposed to this are the moral majority types who feel marijuana is evil (though, for some hypocritical reason, other more dangerous drugs to fight pain are just dandy!). I know I've seen every last one of you smoking bowls in the chill room - VOTE YES. I'd love to go through the others, but guess what! Here's Boss Man. Gotta run. Please vote. We get a chance to have a say on some crucially important issues. No, this may not change the world, but a lot of these measures will impact real people greatly. Do it. Thanks. N From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 12:32:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA05603; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:32:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA05596; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:32:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA17610 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:30:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA21227 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:29:58 -0800 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199611052029.MAA21227@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: i went to Mad To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:29:57 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone, Last night I got the chance to go to Mad for the first time in months and months. It was insanely great! I got there when Joe Rice was playing, and then Tim McKnew went on. He started off really trippy, with some slower stuff, and then he settled into a serious techno set that MADE ME DANCE. Later on, Monty played and he did the same thing to me. I'm so glad I got to hear him play at last! It was mighty fine to see lots of friends for the first time since FnF. Such as Leslie, little Tod, Jonas, Maya the irrepresible (this lady has energy to spare!), and of course, the Mad crew, who can be counted on to show us all a good time. The visuals were awesome, Alex! Thanks for a perfect Monday night, Ann From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 12:40:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA06446; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:40:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA06435; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA06807 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:40:34 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:40:33 -0800 (PST) From: Dan To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Prop 215, explained Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Personal knowledge: There are currently only eight people who have been granted the ability to smoke marijuana by the fenderal government. They are in a special program which has not been advertised very much where they are allowed to purchase marijuana pre-manufactured in cigarrette in tins containing 300 marijuana cigarrettes. The marijuana is cultivated in federally sponsered and maintained sites. I don't know what the name of this program is, but I know that there are surely more than 8 people in the entire USA who could benefit from the usage of marijuana and I wonder why this specific program has received very little press. I'd more liek to leave it in the hands of the doctors. Besides, if there's a little side business going on, WHO CARES. >From the California Ballot Pamphlet Quote: Prop 215: Medical Use of Marijuana Initiative Statute, Put on the Ballot by Petition Signatures Summary Exempts from criminal laws patients and defined caregivers who possess or cultivate marijuana for medical treatment recommended by a physician. Provides physicians who recommmend use shall not be punished. Fiscal Impact: Probably no significant fiscal impact on state and local governments. YES vote: A YES vote on this measure mean: Persons with certain illnesses (and their caregivers) could grow or possess marijuana for medical use when recommended by a physician. Laws prohibiting the nonmedical use of marijuana are not changed. NO vote: A NO vote on this measure means: Growing or possessing marijuana for any purpose (including medical purposes) would remain illegal. PRO: Marijuana can relieve pain suffering in serious illnesses like cancer, glaucoma and AIDS. Proposition 215 permits patients to use marijuana, but only if they have the approval of a licensed physician. Tight controls limiting marijuana to patients only will remain in place. Cancer doctors and nurses groups support 215. CON: Proposition 215 legalizes marijuana. Vote no. It allows people to grow and smoke marijuana for stress or "any other illness." No written presciption or examination is reqired, even children can smoke pot legally. The American Cancer Society rejects smoking marijuana for medical purposes and no major doctor's organization supports 215. INFORMATION CONTACT FOR: Californians for Medical Rights 1250 Sixth Street, #202 Santa Monica, CA 904041 (310) 394-2952 FAX (310) 451-7494 WWW: http://www.prop215.org INFORMATION CONTACT AGAINST: Citizens for a Drug-Free California Sheriff Brad Gates, Chairman 4901 Birch Street Newport Beach, CA 92660 (714) 476-3017 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 12:54:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA08171; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:54:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA08143; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:54:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) id MAA22988; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:54:09 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199611052054.MAA22988@xanadu.cyborganic.com> Subject: Re: don't forget to vote yes on 215! To: blkadder@value.net Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:54:09 -0800 (PST) Cc: jonasr@ucla.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "blkadder@value.net" at Nov 5, 96 12:05:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > And this type of deception is what will lead to a call for a repeal of the > Proposition. Prop 215 is really a great idea. Legalization for everyone > else is a good idea. But as seperate and distinct issues. If people misuse > 215 so they can smoke out and get caught, the people that this Prop is > supposed to help, that is Aids patients, Cancer patients, etc. will > suffer as the Prop is repealed. This sounds exactly like what happend with the San Francisco CBC. If they were running a tighter ship, AIDS and cancer patients would still probably be able to get their medicine there. Chances are, even after 215 passes, anyone caught growing pot will probably still get arrested and have to go to court. It is here that, if it is determined that you have a valid doctor's recomendation for growing, prop 215 will help you out. If your doctors recommendation does not stand up in court, you will go to jail. I agree with Black Adder... the whims of recreational pot smokers should not interfere with the legal process of getting pot to those whose lives depend on it. -troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 13:08:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA09464; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:08:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA09437; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA03146; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:08:04 -0800 Received: from eon.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA10602; Tue, 5 Nov 96 14:08:03 PPE From: eric@nit.AirTouch.COM (Eric Pederson) Message-Id: <9611052108.AA10602@nit.AirTouch.COM> Subject: Re: don't forget to vote yes on 215! To: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:08:02 -0800 (PST) Cc: jonasr@ucla.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199611051944.LAA29892@netcom17.netcom.com> from "Steve Simitzis" at Nov 5, 96 11:44:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Steve Simitzis writes... > That's too bad. It's abuses like this that would get Prop 215 repealed > or challenged in court, should it pass. Yes, Patrick had an excellent > point: the measure is to support marijuana as a *medicine* for people > who need it. This is not a measure for everyone to support so they can > go smoke out. > > "Hey, officer, I have cancer, I need to grow this stuff...*wink* > *wink*" I can see it now. It's only a matter of time before CBC would > get busted again. > > If you *really* want to have a law to support marijuana for general > use, then make your own ballot proposition for next the election > decriminalizing possession. I'm sure you could get one million > Californians to sign a petition for that ;) > > I'm still voting for 215. It sucks to be sick and suffering. i encourage everyone to vote for 215. if it doesn't pass though, it will be the authors' own fault for wording it too loose for the average voter to swallow. no written prescription needed? no age limit? no defined set of illnesses? owing to political realities they should have made 215 much tighter. it's better to take a small step in the right direction and succeed than to take a big step and fail (for example, clinton's original health care plan). are the voters going to be asked again in 1998? 2000? how many initiative campaigns can these people afford to run? if it does pass (knock on wood) then it will probably end up in court asap, and the courts will clarify prescriptions, age limits, etc. look at prop 187. it passed (by a large majority) but it was DOA in the courts. the same thing could happen to 215. word to the zealots. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 13:44:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA12945; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA12932; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:44:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:41:49 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA27993; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:41:49 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@host.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: test..delete Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hehehehahahahohoho From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 13:44:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA12970; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:44:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA12940; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:44:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (root@cats-po-1.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.22]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA06084 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id NAA19673; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:42:50 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id NAA13579; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:42:48 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:42:47 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: (NRR) politics To: sfraves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Personally I'll be glad when election day is over and we can stop with the political discussions on a ravers mailing list. peas, Ran (Namasate) / -=*=-/ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 13:58:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA14157; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA14143; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:58:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from natasha.coolware.com (annex23.usfca.edu [138.202.192.123]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA13562 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:57:06 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961105215531.007397ac@best.com> X-Sender: mdpkl@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 13:55:31 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" Subject: re: nrr (politics) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hello all- i can't wait for the next election day, so we can get to know each other's politics EVEN BETTER! =p love to you all- matt matthew d. p. k. lanier professional hugger and empath mailto:mdpkl@best.com 415-752-3218 _______ / \ / o o \ | ^ | | | ___ \ \_/ / ___ __(___\ \__ __/ /___)__ (______ \________\ /_________/ ______) (_______ ____________________ _______) (______ / \ ______) (_____/ \_____) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 14:02:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA14626; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:02:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA14602; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:02:43 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18484; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:02:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:02:37 -0800 (PST) To: Randy C Cone cc: sfraves Subject: Re: (NRR) politics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Randy C Cone wrote: > > Personally I'll be glad when election day is over and we can stop with > the political discussions on a ravers mailing list. Odd, I was under the impression that politics are often a topic of discussion here. ;-) Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 14:12:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA15517; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:12:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.zocalo.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA15491; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:11:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from zocalo.net (zocalo.net [157.22.1.7]) by mail.zocalo.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28909 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:13:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from niles.com (niles.com [157.22.229.1]) by zocalo.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA05536 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:11:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [157.22.229.127] by niles.com with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1b2d4); Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:11:40 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:18:13 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: peter@niles.com (Customer Service) Subject: Let me tell you about my weekend {NRR} Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Sunday afternoon I was chilling in my room listening to Bob Marley and watering the geraniums when I heard this guy on the street hooting and hollering, screaming "You sonofabzzzt, I'm gonna kick your motherfluffing be-hind when I get my hands on you! You damn motherphuffer..." and on and on. The dude was shaking his fist in the air, red in the face like he was fixing to bust an artery, shouting up to one of the windows of my apartment building. After ten minutes of this business, I popped open the window and said, "Hey, Mac, what the Sam Hill is the matter wichoo? I'm sitting here trying to catch that Sunday morning vibe with Bob Marley, and you're straight out busting my scene! What's up with that, yo?" But the cat didn't even listen, he just kept on hootin and hollerin, frothing at the mouth and turning purple in the face like it was coming back in style. Finally, I went over to the kid in the room next door, this nerdy guy who's always studying and keeping to himself. "You know this guy out there?" I asked. The kid had never seen the guy before, but he, too was fixing to have a nervous breakdown, on account of the guy outside was disrupting his studying. So I went upstairs and banged on the door of Icky and Thumper, these two punkrockers who live above me. Punkrockers are always causing trouble; I thought maybe they'd been messing with this guy outside. Well, Icky and Thumper were as clueless as ever, but they were blasting their music, trying to drown out the maniac's voice. Old Lady Milktoast on the third floor, she didn't know the guy either, but she was nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs, pacing back and forth in her room, praying the guy would just leave. And let me tell you, we could still here the guy screaming from up there: "You got-dam motherphuffer, I'm-a gonna put my foot so far up your arse, you'll be flossing your teeth with my bootlaces! You motherphuffing sonofabzzzt!" Naturally, I was a bit embarassed in front of old Mrs. Milktoast, what with all this bad language, so I was settled to resolve this matter once and for all. "Boomerang," said she, "Please try to do something about this horrible man with his sinful language! I would call the police, but you know how they are with old people." "Don't you worry, Old Lady Milktoast," said I with confidence. "I have a notion that someone on the top floor is the object of this scallawag's rantings. You make yourself a hot cup of tea to settle your nerves, and let the Boomerang handle this." So up the creaky stairs I trudged, and at the top of the stairs I banged on the door. The door was at once yanked open, almost tearing it from the hinges, and I was looking face to face with what I swore was the devil himself. He was a gnarly, fat old greaseball with blackened teeth and bugs in his beard, his eyes were wild and seething as if he had spent the weekend on a methamphetamine bender. He growled and yanked me by the collar, ripping open my new shirt and dragging me into the kitchen. He kicked over the trashcan and grabbed a handful of soggy coffeegrounds, which he shoved into my mouth and down my throat. I struggled to escape and tried to scream, but the coffee grounds made it impossible to do anything but groan. The guy then grabbed a jug on liquid dish soap, ripped off my trousers and squirted the dishsoap up my bum, and as finally insult, slapped me in the face and threw me out the window, into the trash dumpster below. I climbed out of the dumpster and started shaking my fist in the air and screaming at the top of my lungs, "You sonofabzzt! I'm-a gonna kick your motherphuffing arse when I get my hands on you! You got-dam..." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 14:20:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA16158; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:20:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA16133; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:20:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA14935; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:20:30 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: star owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:20:29 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: Randy C Cone cc: sfraves Subject: Re: (NRR) politics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear Randy, Don't count on it! (However for those who prefer not to view our community as a vehicle for positive social change, I'll try to keep my irrelevant opinions to a minimum.) Much love, <<< Starchild >>> My computer tells me that on Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Randy shared: > > Personally I'll be glad when election day is over and we can stop with > the political discussions on a ravers mailing list. > > > peas, > > > Ran > > (Namasate) > / > -=*=-/ > ~ > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 14:39:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA17783; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:39:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA17773; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA10760; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:39:27 -0800 Received: from hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA11520; Tue, 5 Nov 96 15:39:26 PPE Received: by hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA00238; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:39:25 -0800 From: mikes@nit.AirTouch.COM (Mike Schneir) Message-Id: <199611052239.OAA00238@hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com> Subject: Vote! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:39:24 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Don't settle for the lesser of evils! Vote Cthulhu for Pres! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 14:48:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA18703; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:48:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA18692; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:48:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA17075; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:48:12 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: star owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:48:11 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: Nancy Shaw cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: (NRR) More election picks... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear SFRavefriends, Of course I meant to put out a complete list days ago, but simply didn't get around to it. For those who may be undecided and haven't voted yet, here's a few more brief thoughts (partly in response to Nancy's)... My computer tells me that on Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Nancy Shaw shared: > This has to be short and sweet - the boss is due back any sec. So, a > rundown on the most important issues (for me): > > PREZ > This one's a toss-up: a last-minute decision made in the booth, I'm > sure. Torn between Ole Boy Bill (would have to hold my nose on that > one), Ralph for the anti-globalization message, Marcia for the totally > idealistic, socialist values message, and even Ross for the > what-the-fuck-are-we-doing-with-this-fucking-deficit message. Thank bob > that Dole is SO far behind that we have the luxury of choosing between > alternatives, and are not so chained to the "lesser-of-two-evils" type of > choice we usually have. BUT I'll check the exit polls before I vote to > make sure Clinton is winning in Cal before even considering the > "throw-away" alternate-party vote. Remember, whoever takes Cali. wins. The only way you "throw away" your vote is by voting for someone you don't really support, the "lesser of two evils," etc. Perot is right about this -- don't waste your vote! In practical terms, your one vote is NOT NOT NOT going to decide who our next President is! All you're doing is adding to a total. Add to a smaller (third party) total, and your vote makes a bigger proportional difference. It's that simple. And of course I urge you to support Harry Browne/Jo Jorgensen on the Libertarian ticket. Many reasons too detailed to go into here, but a few pertaining to ravers: -Browne/Jorgensen believe doing drugs should be a personal choice, not a law. -They support an end to licensing and permit laws that prevent many good parties from happening and result in busts of many others. -Browne/Jorgensen would establish individual non-government retirement plans and stop taking young people's money for a Social Insecurity system that is going to be bankrupt before they ever see a dime of their money back. Since many of us are under 30, I see this as an important issue for us. -Browne/Jorgensen would curb unconstitutional use of police powers under which many people are now being wrongly beaten, jailed, robbed, and otherwise persecuted. > Prop 209 > Gee, wouldn't it be wonderful to have a color-blind, gender-equal society > where there is no discrimination and everyone has the exact same life > opportunities? Unfortunately folks, we ain't there yet! VOTE NO. This > one eradicates such awful things as extra tutoring, special efforts at > recruitment, and other programs aimed at welcoming those historically > excluded in higher ed and employment. Don't forget the pernicious, > obscure "Clause C": women may be discriminated against for causes > "reasonable and necessary to their gender": i.e. going back to the days > of barring women from "dangerous" (and high-paying) occupations because > they might someday get pregnant, not having to build facilities for women > (like the notorious no-women's bathrooms in our State Capitol until the > late '70's!!!) Opponents of Prop. 209 never want to talk about the actual language of the measure. Contrary to media-led belief, it would *not* outlaw affirmative action in California, only racial and gender preferences by the government. Anyone else would be free to keep these preferences, and even the government would still be allowed to have affirmative action programs that are based on factors such as socioeconomic status. Clause C is a red herring, most legal experts agree. It is designed to allow things like same-sex searches at prisons and airports, where a perfectly gender-free law might allow a woman to get searched by a man, for example. It is not "pernicious" and certainly not "obscure"; Prop. 209 is one of the most straightforward-written measures to appear on the ballot. Check it out for yourself. I hope you vote yes on 209 and yes for an end to racism. > Prop 215 > Compassionate use of marijuana to treat people who are suffering. This > one is cake. The ones opposed to this are the moral majority types who > feel marijuana is evil (though, for some hypocritical reason, other more > dangerous drugs to fight pain are just dandy!). I know I've seen every > last one of you smoking bowls in the chill room - VOTE YES. I hope we can all agree on this one! Vote YES! And come to the Prop. 215 election party at 8pm tonight at the Cannabis Buyer's Club, 1444 Market St. Your voting stub is your ticket. Along with the above measures, Prop. 218 is the most critical thing on the ballot, imho. During the 18 years since California's last major tax reform (Proposition 13), politicians have found numerous loopholes which allow them to raise your taxes without your consent by calling them "assessment districts," "fees," and so on. By carefully avoiding the word "tax" to describe what clearly are new taxes, government lawyers have managed to subvert the intent of the law and undermine the democratic process in this state. Proposition 218 will close these tax loopholes by requiring a majority of voters to approve increases in general taxes, and by requiring that new fees and charges imposed on property owners first be submitted for their approval. Failure to pass 218 will leave the door open for current and future politicians to increase the tax burden at will, with a potentially devastating impact on all of us. The ability of families and individuals to pay for necessities like food, housing, and health care, as well as the little things we all hope to enjoy such as vacations, rave parties, and visits to libraries, zoos, and museums are in jeopardy if 218 goes down. Please vote YES on 218! On a similar note, a vote for any bond measure is the same as a vote to raise your taxes -- in fact worse. Bonds have to be paid back by the taxpayers, with interest, to the investors who buy them. Everything paid for by bond is more expensive than it would be otherwise. It's the same as buying on credit with money you don't have. Final note: When in doubt, vote against the incumbent! And remember, a vote for any third party candidate is better than a vote for a Republican or Democrat if you want to see a change in the status quo. I'm not going to tell you to go out and vote. That's up to you, and if you don't want to vote, I'm sure you have a logical and reasonable reason for feeling that way. In fact it is your civil liberty NOT to vote! Furthermore, if you plan on voting differently than myself, I would just as soon you did stay home! ;) Much love, <<< Starchild >>> From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 15:04:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA20641; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:04:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA20603; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:04:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA13358; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:03:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (sidewalk@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10123; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:50:52 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:50:51 -0800 (PST) From: Timothy McIntyre To: Nancy Shaw cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: VOTE! Nancy's Pix '96 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Nancy Shaw wrote: > > This has to be short and sweet - the boss is due back any sec. So, a > rundown on the most important issues (for me): > > PREZ > This one's a toss-up: a last-minute decision made in the booth, I'm > sure. Torn between Ole Boy Bill (would have to hold my nose on that > one), Ralph for the anti-globalization message, Marcia for the totally > idealistic, socialist values message, and even Ross for the > what-the-fuck-are-we-doing-with-this-fucking-deficit message. Thank bob ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I don't mean to be pedantic or anything, but remember that Bill Clinton *has* cut the deficit more than in half since he took office! I know it's not cool for underground-raver types to embrace mainstream politicians, but I do think that Clinton is the best president we've ever had. Okay, enough shameless pro-Clinton babbling... :) GO VOTE EVERYONE! Today we all count the same... "From many, one" peace out Timothy > that Dole is SO far behind that we have the luxury of choosing between > alternatives, and are not so chained to the "lesser-of-two-evils" type of > choice we usually have. BUT I'll check the exit polls before I vote to > make sure Clinton is winning in Cal before even considering the > "throw-away" alternate-party vote. Remember, whoever takes Cali. wins. > > Prop 209 > Gee, wouldn't it be wonderful to have a color-blind, gender-equal society > where there is no discrimination and everyone has the exact same life > opportunities? Unfortunately folks, we ain't there yet! VOTE NO. This > one eradicates such awful things as extra tutoring, special efforts at > recruitment, and other programs aimed at welcoming those historically > excluded in higher ed and employment. Don't forget the pernicious, > obscure "Clause C": women may be discriminated against for causes > "reasonable and necessary to their gender": i.e. going back to the days > of barring women from "dangerous" (and high-paying) occupations because > they might someday get pregnant, not having to build facilities for women > (like the notorious no-women's bathrooms in our State Capitol until the > late '70's!!!) > > Prop 215 > Compassionate use of marijuana to treat people who are suffering. This > one is cake. The ones opposed to this are the moral majority types who > feel marijuana is evil (though, for some hypocritical reason, other more > dangerous drugs to fight pain are just dandy!). I know I've seen every > last one of you smoking bowls in the chill room - VOTE YES. > > > I'd love to go through the others, but guess what! Here's Boss Man. > Gotta run. > > Please vote. We get a chance to have a say on some crucially important > issues. No, this may not change the world, but a lot of these measures > will impact real people greatly. Do it. Thanks. > > N > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 15:05:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA20728; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:05:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout02.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA20709; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:04:53 -0800 (PST) From: Tekno313@aol.com Received: by emout02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA25409 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:03:06 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:03:06 -0500 Message-ID: <961105180306_1881009550@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: MADness....MADness....they call it MADness..... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Thanks to everyone who came out to MAD last night, and to Tim McKnew(aka 'The InTIMidator') for helping make it a top night out. --Monty p.s.- o.j., & william burroughs.....what's up on that? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 15:38:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA23457; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:38:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA23443; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:37:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.178.41.41] ([205.178.41.41]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with ESMTP id PAA08494; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:36:30 -0800 X-Sender: branka@pop.sirius.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:36:48 -0800 To: Starchild From: *B* Subject: 215 party - Re: (NRR) More election picks... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 2:48 PM -0800 11/5/96, Starchild wrote: > >I hope we can all agree on this one! Vote YES! And come to the Prop. 215 >election party at 8pm tonight at the Cannabis Buyer's Club, 1444 Market >St. Your voting stub is your ticket. > Hey, what about people who are not allowed to vote (you know, those GD foreigner :P). Can we still party at CBC? I love that place ever since 215 party. I tried to convince few ppl to vote for it and actually succeeded :). One of GD foreigners, *B* From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 15:55:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA24786; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:55:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA24777; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:55:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.humboldt.edu by axe.humboldt.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #17164) id <0E0F9410100CEX@axe.humboldt.edu>; Tue, 05 Nov 1996 15:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 15:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Kevin O'Neal" Subject: Re: NRR: VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE!VOTE! In-reply-to: <961104194839_1847290695@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: Hughdhyana@aol.com Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Here's the start ofa newe movement: If you think your vote doesn't matter, vote anyway! Just write yourself in for all the offices and vote no on all the propositions (or don't vote at all on the propositions). That way, when the votes are tallied and percentages are calculated, the candidates scores will be smaller since they are calculated out of a larger number of total votes. # votes for Candidate A ----------------------- X 100% = percent of vote Total # of votes in It would show the mainstream public that the winner really only won from a few votes. This would remind them that their vote does really matter. I voted for myself for two officesthis year. :) -Kevin- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 16:05:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA25848; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:05:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from plague.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA25790; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:05:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dlb@localhost) by plague.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA03252; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:05:21 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:05:13 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bayer X-Sender: dlb@plague.berkeley.edu To: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: RE: don't forget to vote yes on 215! In-Reply-To: <199611051944.LAA29892@netcom17.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Steve Simitzis wrote: > If you *really* want to have a law to support marijuana for general > use, then make your own ballot proposition for next the election > decriminalizing possession. I'm sure you could get one million > Californians to sign a petition for that ;) Or better yet, find a lawyer who will take tthis case and file a lawsuit against the federal government for breach of your rights under whatever previous court decisions are applicable and rights granted by the bill of rights and the rest of the constituion. Bring into the court the fact that the founders of this country smoked pot and that the reason it has been illegalized is not due to health reasons but for political gain. Then make legal proceedings against the FDA for not verifying the so called harmful effects of scheduled substances before scheduling them. This issue is a pretty good reflection of how much we trust one another these days (well, ok, I admit you can contort anything to make it a good "reflection" of your own point, this may be the case here, you decide). No American in their right mind is going to let their neighbor lose with a whole bunch of drugs, hell, we cannot let them take care of their own lawns let alone their own beliefs or even their own kids. No one is willing to trust anyone anymore in sura, so why should anyone be acountable for their own actions? dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 16:19:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA26995; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:19:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from melvax.sonoma.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA26981; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:18:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from plastikdreams.sonoma.edu (SA-6EN38.sonoma.edu) by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8366) id <01IBHRCHPP9S9I59O4@SONOMA.EDU> for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 05 Nov 1996 16:18:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 16:20:46 +0000 From: Jonas Hanning Subject: This weekend? X-Sender: hanning@sonoma.edu To: SFRaves Message-id: <3.0.32.19961105162040.006e4a04@sonoma.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk What do you recommend this coming weekend? There are some parties going on, and I can't possibly go to all of them. So what should I pick? These are my options I guess... SMILES on Friday. Well, what can I say? Carlos is the only DJ I've ever heard of (please keep in mind that I'm not from SF), and I'm not even sure I like him. 2ND CHAKRA on Saturday. Jeno & Garth head to head on 4 turntables? Sounds interesting. But the rest of the party? Tarot cards? Acupuncture? Herbal Clinics? Healings? What the hell is this? Do I really want to pay $18 to go to some health fair with a soundtrack? Probably not. And then there's 2012, That Girl Mona, [future primitive soundsession 2], Club Biptut (in Sactown), and some other parties too I guess. Any recommendations? reespect, jonas *********************************************************** * <> <<>> <> * * <<>> * * "still listening to wax, i'm not using the cd..." * *********************************************************** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 16:26:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA27671; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:26:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from yam.tenetwork.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA27657; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:26:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from Feynman.tenetwork.com (feynman.tenetwork.com [10.10.2.99]) by yam.tenetwork.com (8.7.6/8.7.2) with SMTP id QAA05768 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:20:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <327FE9B2.1723@ten.net> Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 17:28:19 -0800 From: Pengo Reply-To: Pengo@ten.net Organization: Pengo Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: RE: don't forget to vote yes on 215! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > and this type of deception is what will lead to a call for a repeal of >the Proposition. I don't really know if excessive abuse or whatever of what 215 would cause a repeal of it. After all, how many people use all those 5' water bongs and metal pipes for tobacco? And thoes remain legal (in California). -=Pengo=- Blake "Pengo" Merriam From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 16:45:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA29222; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:45:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA29209; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA00306 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:45:23 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:45:23 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ward To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Wed. nite Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ok guys, if you can make it to MAD on mondays you can make it to AUDIO IMPACT tomorrow nite. I want to see all your shiny smiley faces in the bass bins. Did I mention the ribcage-shattering bass? I'm really excited (bass). And maybe my new tape demo will be ready, so if you meet me ask, cause I'll be bringing freebees...(and bass). -alex (dj Soto) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 16:52:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA29740; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:52:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from plague.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA29723; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:52:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dlb@localhost) by plague.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA03641; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:52:09 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:52:05 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bayer X-Sender: dlb@plague.berkeley.edu To: "\\SFRaves\\" cc: president@whitehouwse.gov Subject: Re: don't forget to vote yes on 215! In-Reply-To: <199611052054.MAA22988@xanadu.cyborganic.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk If you want to know everything there is to know about Prop 215 (well, just about), go to http://www.prop215.org/ or specificly http://www.prop215.org/faq215.html for information about where the propotion came from, why it was deemed to be necessary, who it protects, how it protects them, rulings on use of pot for medical purposes, political beuracosy within the DEA.... etc... It was in the election materials you may or may not have gotten... In general, prop 215 is not going to help get pot or any other drug legalized for recreational use. That fight is going to be a long hard one. It is one that must do two things, I would think - first, it must show that the basis of the current drug war is not because of properities inherient in the effects of the the drugs themselves, but instead the at the basis was for Nixon's political gain, and that what he started has snowballed out of control (see the book, Smoke and Mirrors" I forget the author, I heard an interview with him on NPR). Secondly, and more importantly, the war against the drug war must show that drugs are not a threat to "american" values whatever those are (and if we want to be techincal as I assume we would, the founders of this country whose words the courts try to interrept and keep alive, had smoked pot and believed in personal freedoms, look at their speeches, look at their documents, look at what they were fighting AGAINST, and I wonder how our current government might compare with the monarchy of the Britisih Empire of those days)... So whose ready to go tell their parents, coworkers, children, and friends that they use drugs? Who is ready to take a stance for what they believe, or do you really believe it? Who is ready to work through all the shit that may fall upon you in order to deprogram a nation that has had no facts, no evidence for that last 16 years that drugs are indeed horrible, harmful things, but has taken such beliefs to heart (or at least that is their public stance)? But then, maybe that will not happen. The more I travel through this country the more surprised I am to see that as long as you have your shit together, people do not care what you do, but if you step over the line and drop your shit on someone else's doorstep of perception (maybe a better way to explain this in the wise words of a Mr. Abel, "He was interfering with my experience"), that person is not going to be happy about it.. dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 16:56:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA00118; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:56:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA29983; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA30985 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA22698 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:50:39 -0800 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199611060050.QAA22698@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: i just voted To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:50:38 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Yay... just now I had the pleasure of voting YES on 215! what it joy it was to vote my heart. a couple of years ago a fellow graduate student asked my assistance in finding some marijauna for an old man who was dying of cancer. that experience more than anything else has made me wish that marijauna were legal. the underground network for distributing pot for recreational use works just great, provided you know who to contact when you want some. but if you are old, or infirm, or if you don't know anyone who might help you find it, it is very hard to make the right connection. if it passes, do you think it will help the cbc leaders (dennis peron, and others) with their upcoming court cases? much respect, ann From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 17:33:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA03317; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:33:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from saclink2.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA03302; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:33:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by saclink2.csus.edu (1.40.112.6/16.2) id AA049543932; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:32:12 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:32:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: This weekend? To: Jonas Hanning Cc: SFRaves In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19961105162040.006e4a04@sonoma.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Go to 2012. love, Amy ******* ** ** * * * * * oOOo oOOo * * oOOo oOOo * E.L.F. * oo oo * Are Here Now * * * . . * * ___ * * * * * * From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 17:35:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA03592; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:35:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA03585; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA03389; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:35:35 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199611060135.RAA03389@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: (NRR) More election picks... To: star@sfsu.edu (Starchild) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:35:34 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Starchild" at Nov 5, 96 02:48:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > > Dear SFRavefriends, > > Of course I meant to put out a complete list days ago, but simply > didn't get around to it. For those who may be undecided and haven't voted > yet, here's a few more brief thoughts (partly in response to Nancy's)... > > My computer tells me that on Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Nancy Shaw shared: > > > Prop 209 > > Gee, wouldn't it be wonderful to have a color-blind, gender-equal society > > where there is no discrimination and everyone has the exact same life > > opportunities? Unfortunately folks, we ain't there yet! VOTE NO. This > > one eradicates such awful things as extra tutoring, special efforts at > > recruitment, and other programs aimed at welcoming those historically > > excluded in higher ed and employment. Don't forget the pernicious, > > obscure "Clause C": women may be discriminated against for causes > > "reasonable and necessary to their gender": i.e. going back to the days > > of barring women from "dangerous" (and high-paying) occupations because > > they might someday get pregnant, not having to build facilities for women > > (like the notorious no-women's bathrooms in our State Capitol until the > > late '70's!!!) > > Opponents of Prop. 209 never want to talk about the actual language of the > measure. Contrary to media-led belief, it would *not* outlaw affirmative > action in California, only racial and gender preferences by the > government. Anyone else would be free to keep these preferences, and even > the government would still be allowed to have affirmative action programs > that are based on factors such as socioeconomic status. > Clause C is a red herring, most legal experts agree. It is > designed to allow things like same-sex searches at prisons and airports, > where a perfectly gender-free law might allow a woman to get searched by a > man, for example. It is not "pernicious" and certainly not "obscure"; > Prop. 209 is one of the most straightforward-written measures to appear on > the ballot. Check it out for yourself. > I hope you vote yes on 209 and yes for an end to racism. Now, at first, I was very very quiet about this whole issue. Even going so far as to stay out of the fray of this particular issue. In short Starchild, you have not been discriminated against, and the proponents of 209 are the worse sort of people. I'm glad that you're right in there with Helms, thurmond and Duke, all great white leaders. ANway unless one of you can show me a case where there was a qualified white replaced by a less qualified minority, I would say that this entire campaign is nothing but a wedge issue. It has been over 400 years since my people were brought here as slaves, a great social experiment. Deny the option to read for some 200 years, then deny the option to vote for some 350 or so, deny opportunites to blacks, women and others for centuries, perfrom the worse sort of genocide against the native cultures, and then after a GENERATION of corrective measures (restitiution some might say), you wan to say the playing feild is level. Sir, get out of school and find a job, for discrimination is very real in the workplace, it is not a matter of academia or philiophical deabte. People are being redlined, and people are beign shut out, all because of the color of thier skin. Please get yourself up to date about the present lawsuit with Texaco for proof positive. A vote for 209 is a vote for continued racism.. Stop racism...remeber, you too will one day be a minority. time to start looking at the longer range when, maybe, just maybe, you might need help as a underepresented minority. Yes, it is happening, see the census. Look out for the future and vote AGAINST the RACIST 209. NO on 209, NO on 209, NO ON 209! NO ON 209!!!!! Ward Connerly <- sell out Pete Wilson <- suck out David Duke <- ass out No ON 209, NO ON 209, NO ON 209..... Now it's time for inteeligent debate. As Malcolm X said about JFK "...the chickens came home to roost". Out, John S. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 17:57:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA05376; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA05372; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA06634 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:54:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA847245773; Tue, 05 Nov 96 17:50:49 pst Date: Tue, 05 Nov 96 17:50:49 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9610058472.AA847245773@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: 215 Rant (NRR) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk They (bongs, pipes, papers, grunge off, head shops) only stay legal because a segment of the population can play the game of... civil liberty warfare. Part of civil liberty warfare is staying cool. They say, that's a pot pipe, I say, no... this is my pipe for smoking Earl Grey Tea. My religion supports me smoking earl grey at tea time. Would you like to talk to my lawyer? I don't mind if by carrying around a 6' bong I fuck it up for the non-cannabis herb smokers of the world, but prop 215 is a different story. If you're not sick with glaucoma, cancer, undergoing chemo or radiotherapy, or starting to experience full blown AIDS symptoms, you should not abuse the 215 name. If it wins, it's a victory for medicine, it's a victory for the legalization movement, but if everybody busts out with the kind and starts snapping bongloads on Market St, there's going to be a really negative public backlash. I'd hate to lose this for the sick because some fuckups want to get high and claim they have a ticket to ride because of 215. I agree with whoever said CBC got shut down because of people who were never intended to be there (kids, bunk notes, multiple caregivers for one patient). This is a somber occasion... people are DYING and we're working on making medicine available for them. I guess what I'm asking everybody to do is work on seeing this for what it is. If you haven't worked with people who are terminally ill, perhaps you wouldn't understand. My friend Chris passed away recently, and I used to bring him 'free samples'... It was part "make a wish foundation" (he really liked being stoned) and part pain relief (or at least he'd forget it hurt). It was really amazing though. He was a stoner before he got sick, and I'm sure he's a stoner now wherever he is. I did what I did, not out of profit or pity, but because I felt that getting stoned with him sweetened both our lives as his time of passing came. It meant so much to him. I didn't know him that well, but I'm glad I met him, and I'm glad I could help him. I learned a lot. I think about that and that's how I envision compassionate use. I wish we could get away from our own needs, and concentrate on the issue. Please don't use 215 as an excuse to use, possess, or cultivate marijuana unless you are sick or a caregiver (I'm currently neither). If you choose to be part of the movement to legalize it, contact NORML. Be discrete, informed and keep your head on straight. You are a walking advertisement for your beliefs and opinions. Talk to those that almost understand. Don't fall into the "hey dude let's party" stereotype. We've been having our civil liberties taken for us to the point that we can't use certain medicines on our selves when we're sick or just plain in the mood for it (one of the safest drugs known to mankind might I add). So when you're toking tonite, or this weekend at a party, think about what it would be like to know that those who need it more than you might have a chance to enjoy without persecution. That's what you voted for, and it's one of the coolest, nicest things I can think of. If you want that right too, read, act, discuss, and prepare to give to the cause. Cypress Hill won't do it for you.... Peace, AndyW From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 17:58:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA05484; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:58:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA05470; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:58:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBCB42.D4537560@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:57:37 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: 3 Day Weekends Every Week (If not for Taxes)! Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:46:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Up until World War I, TOTAL taxes (Fed, State, Local, etc) totalled less than 10% of GNP. At the end of World War II total taxes had reached 20% of GNP. As recently as 1969, total taxes were 30% of GNP. Total taxes are now close to 40% of GNP! This means that if taxes today were what they were at the end of WWII - we could have 3 days off EVERY weekend, WITH NO CUT IN PAY! No wonder our parents/grandparents could afford to buy a house, car and send their kids to college with only 1 wage earner! Pretty soon we'll have to start having more kids and send them off to work instead of school just to pay our taxes..... Your Libertarian thought for the day..... jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 18:12:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA06678; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA06670; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:12:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from inanna.ccnet.com [207.171.196.194] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKxTJ-0006Gr-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:12:06 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19961105171151.0068ae18@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: inanna@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 17:11:54 -0800 To: "Andy Wyszkowski" , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: inanna Subject: Re: 215 Rant (NRR) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Right on Wyszkowski!!! At 05:50 PM 11/5/96 pst, Andy Wyszkowski wrote: > > They (bongs, pipes, papers, grunge off, head shops) only stay legal > because a segment of the population can play the game of... civil > liberty warfare. > > Part of civil liberty warfare is staying cool. They say, that's a pot > pipe, I say, no... this is my pipe for smoking Earl Grey Tea. My > religion supports me smoking earl grey at tea time. Would you like to > talk to my lawyer? > > I don't mind if by carrying around a 6' bong I fuck it up for the > non-cannabis herb smokers of the world, but prop 215 is a different > story. > > If you're not sick with glaucoma, cancer, undergoing chemo or > radiotherapy, or starting to experience full blown AIDS symptoms, you > should not abuse the 215 name. If it wins, it's a victory for > medicine, it's a victory for the legalization movement, but if > everybody busts out with the kind and starts snapping bongloads on > Market St, there's going to be a really negative public backlash. I'd > hate to lose this for the sick because some fuckups want to get high > and claim they have a ticket to ride because of 215. > > I agree with whoever said CBC got shut down because of people who were > never intended to be there (kids, bunk notes, multiple caregivers for > one patient). This is a somber occasion... people are DYING and we're > working on making medicine available for them. > > I guess what I'm asking everybody to do is work on seeing this for > what it is. > > If you haven't worked with people who are terminally ill, perhaps you > wouldn't understand. My friend Chris passed away recently, and I used > to bring him 'free samples'... It was part "make a wish foundation" > (he really liked being stoned) and part pain relief (or at least he'd > forget it hurt). It was really amazing though. He was a stoner > before he got sick, and I'm sure he's a stoner now wherever he is. I > did what I did, not out of profit or pity, but because I felt that > getting stoned with him sweetened both our lives as his time of > passing came. It meant so much to him. I didn't know him that well, > but I'm glad I met him, and I'm glad I could help him. I learned a > lot. I think about that and that's how I envision compassionate use. > > I wish we could get away from our own needs, and concentrate on the > issue. Please don't use 215 as an excuse to use, possess, or > cultivate marijuana unless you are sick or a caregiver (I'm currently > neither). If you choose to be part of the movement to legalize it, > contact NORML. > > Be discrete, informed and keep your head on straight. You are a > walking advertisement for your beliefs and opinions. Talk to those > that almost understand. Don't fall into the "hey dude let's party" > stereotype. We've been having our civil liberties taken for us to the > point that we can't use certain medicines on our selves when we're > sick or just plain in the mood for it (one of the safest drugs known > to mankind might I add). > > So when you're toking tonite, or this weekend at a party, think about > what it would be like to know that those who need it more than you > might have a chance to enjoy without persecution. That's what you > voted for, and it's one of the coolest, nicest things I can think of. > If you want that right too, read, act, discuss, and prepare to give to > the cause. Cypress Hill won't do it for you.... > > Peace, > AndyW > > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 18:29:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA07944; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:29:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from libra.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA07920; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:28:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from glow@localhost) by libra.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id SAA18289; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:28:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:28:36 -0800 (PST) From: BRUCE ALVIN MCDONOUGH Message-Id: <199611060228.SAA18289@libra.sfsu.edu> To: dlb@ocf.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: spaz Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk They are going to be doing a biweekily thing soon, first one on the 15th of this month (a Friday)... don't leave us hanging dave, give us the 411... Bruce From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 18:30:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA08117; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:30:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from plague.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA08113; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:30:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dlb@localhost) by plague.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA04092; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:30:25 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:30:21 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bayer X-Sender: dlb@plague.berkeley.edu To: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: Looking for people in Seattle Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Right- So I am going up to Seattle for around the new year and was going to bring a system up with me. So, I am looking for contacts up there for doing a party.... Need help with space and lights and stuff like that, probably for New Years.... Any takers monitoring this list? dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 18:37:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA08613; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA08593; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from wck-ca6-12.ix.netcom.com (shawna-@wck-ca6-12.ix.netcom.com [199.35.213.204]) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA22404 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:37:08 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:37:08 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961104192211.0ca76076@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: shawna-@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (Frisco Freaks) From: The Laffin Happy Trip Farmer Subject: 215? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well my roommate had an excellent reason for voting no on 215, a rather serious consideration that I had never even thought of with regards to this prop. I said "So! What are you voting on 215?" He says "Oh, I'm voting against it." I said "Oh yeah? How come? Why would you care if dying people get high, especially if it helps increase their appetites/decrease pain?" He says "Well, I didn't really read up on that one, but I figure if it's currently illegal, it must be illegal for a reason." & off he went to the polls. ??? I hope to god nobody here (and I assume not, you're all way more informed than my roommate it seems) votes on *anything* based on *that* line of reasoning. Love, Shawna Do not go gentle into that good night. Rave! Rave into the dawning of the light! * * * * * * * * * * * * * \|/ * * * * --O-- * * * /|\ * \O/ | _____/_\_____ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 18:48:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA09438; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:48:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA09423; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:47:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [207.171.196.109] [207.171.196.109] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKy1v-00000c-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:47:53 -0800 X-Sender: illumin8@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:50:06 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: illumin8@frequency-8.com (FREQUENCY 8) Subject: F-8 at Wish Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk 1st Wensday of every month: MARS and MYSTR-E 1600 Market @ Franklin 18+ starts at 10:30pm. $5. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 19:13:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA12205; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 19:13:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA12196; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 19:13:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (sandoz@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id TAA06453 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 19:13:25 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: sandoz owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 19:13:25 -0800 (PST) From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG X-Sender: sandoz@pluto To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR: Time zones and voting Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I really don't get it. It's 7.09 now and Clinton has already won. But the polls here have just closed. If you live in Hawaii then your votes won't get in until 2.00am EST time. So, therefore, everyone who voted after 4pm PST time in the Presidential election effected the outcome of hte election in no way what-so-ever. That means that (if my sums are coreect!) only 3 of every fou8r votes cast in the Presedential election acctually counted. Bearing in mind that only about 60% of the electorate voted in the first place, this means that only 20% of the total votes casted in this election accctually counted for electoral college votes. In short, 20% of the US population decide who is hte leader of the most powerful country in the world. Any system that permits this to happen is fucked, fucked, fucked. You know what I mean. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 19:33:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA13467; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 19:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA13451; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 19:33:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.humboldt.edu by axe.humboldt.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #17164) id <0E0FJ7501001KH@axe.humboldt.edu> for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 05 Nov 1996 19:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 19:33 -0800 (PST) From: Rebecca Klassen Subject: best party to travel to? To: beat and ravish eaters Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk What would be the best party to go to this month [the best party to travel five crusty hours for]? Something that would be a really good first for my friends who have never been to an underground party in SF.(Their perception of SF is somewhat tainted by bad experiences) thinking about a Wrinkle in Time but its kindof out of my budget league. But maybe I'll go regardless. Does anyone have any suggestions? muddled midterm M-A-A-A-D-ness rebecca From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 20:18:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA17037; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:18:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA17025; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:18:38 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA16268; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:18:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:18:23 -0800 (PST) To: "John S. Lee" cc: Starchild , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: (NRR) More election picks... In-Reply-To: <199611060135.RAA03389@netcom20.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > Gee, wouldn't it be wonderful to have a color-blind, gender-equal society > > > where there is no discrimination and everyone has the exact same life > > > opportunities? Unfortunately folks, we ain't there yet! VOTE NO. This > > > one eradicates such awful things as extra tutoring, special efforts at > > > recruitment, and other programs aimed at welcoming those historically > > > excluded in higher ed and employment. Don't forget the pernicious, > > > obscure "Clause C": women may be discriminated against for causes > > > "reasonable and necessary to their gender": i.e. going back to the days > > > of barring women from "dangerous" (and high-paying) occupations because > > > they might someday get pregnant, not having to build facilities for women > > > (like the notorious no-women's bathrooms in our State Capitol until the > > > late '70's!!!) > > > > Opponents of Prop. 209 never want to talk about the actual language of the > > measure. Contrary to media-led belief, it would *not* outlaw affirmative > > action in California, only racial and gender preferences by the > > government. Anyone else would be free to keep these preferences, and even > > the government would still be allowed to have affirmative action programs > > that are based on factors such as socioeconomic status. > > Clause C is a red herring, most legal experts agree. It is > > designed to allow things like same-sex searches at prisons and airports, > > where a perfectly gender-free law might allow a woman to get searched by a > > man, for example. It is not "pernicious" and certainly not "obscure"; > > Prop. 209 is one of the most straightforward-written measures to appear on > > the ballot. Check it out for yourself. > > I hope you vote yes on 209 and yes for an end to racism. > > > Now, at first, I was very very quiet about this whole issue. Even going > so far as to stay out of the fray of this particular issue. > > In short Starchild, you have not been discriminated against, and the > proponents of 209 are the worse sort of people. I'm glad that you're > right in there with Helms, thurmond and Duke, all great white leaders. > ANway unless one of you can show me a case where there was a qualified > white replaced by a less qualified minority, I would say that this entire > campaign is nothing but a wedge issue. I too have stayed out of the fray, until now... You are making assumptions John. Unless you know Starchilds entire life story, it is impossible for you to make the determination if Starchild has ever in his life has been discriminated against, by whom, and what for. And to keep things in perspective it is important to note that *OPPONENTS* of 209 paid for David Duke to come speak against 209. This shallow stunt gives the appearance to the uninformed that proponents of 209 are racist. Once you can easily label a group racist it is much easier and popular to decry their position. It is just not right. > It has been over 400 years since my people were brought here as slaves, a > great social experiment. Deny the option to read for some 200 years, > then deny the option to vote for some 350 or so, deny opportunites to > blacks, women and others for centuries, perfrom the worse sort of > genocide against the native cultures, and then after a GENERATION of > corrective measures (restitiution some might say), you wan to say the > playing feild is level. Sir, get out of school and find a job, for > discrimination is very real in the workplace, it is not a matter of > academia or philiophical deabte. People are being redlined, and people > are beign shut out, all because of the color of thier skin. You are absolutely correct John. People are being shut out of jobs because of the color of their skin. For instance, persons seeking jobs in the Dept. of Corrections are given extra points on tests if they are of certain national origins. And not suprisingly the system is beginning to actually backfire, as quotas are met for some ethnic groups and not for others, locking qualified individuals of what are traditionally minority groups out of jobs. I also remember hearing a while back that Asian-Americans were being denied admission to UC Berkeley because other minority groups were under-represented and the Asian community was over-represented. Gee that's fair, huh? > Please get yourself up to date about the present lawsuit with Texaco for > proof positive. Racism of the caliber displayed is indefensible and will I am sure be dealt with accordingly. It is however, wholly inappropriate to offer this as indicitive of how professionals in every Fortune 500 country think. That would be sterotyping, wouldn't it? Hmm, sterotyping is a lot like racism isn't it? > A vote for 209 is a vote for continued racism.. Stop racism...remeber, > you too will one day be a minority. time to start looking at the longer > range when, maybe, just maybe, you might need help as a underepresented > minority. Yes, it is happening, see the census. Look out for the future > and vote AGAINST the RACIST 209. You have done absolutely nothing to illustrate why 209 is racist. The current system is what is racist. > > As Malcolm X said about JFK "...the chickens came home to roost". It is rather amusing that you decry racism, and then quote a racist. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 20:58:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA20137; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:58:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA20119; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:58:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from 204.179.131.179 (mg131-179.ricochet.net [204.179.131.179]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA27687 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:58:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32801BF6.549A@uclink4.berkeley.edu> Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 21:02:46 -0800 From: kaytee X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: 2012 info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi! I haven't seen too much about 2012. Could someone please email me who's spinning, info line #, etc? Thanks! -k From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 21:04:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA20667; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:04:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA20622; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:03:59 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA19466 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:03:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:03:53 -0800 (PST) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: vote96.ss.ca.gov Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, they claimed that they would have up to the minute updates of election results. Here I sit, listening to a Real Audio broadcast, which included the concession speech by Bob Dole and Jack Kemp, and they don't even have *any* results for the Pres. election, let alone updates on what really matters, the Props. *sigh* Why is it that whenever large "events" are planned for the Internet, the planners always fail to deliver due to lack of bandwidth, computer crashes, etc? Oh well.... Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 21:08:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA21057; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:08:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA20987; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:07:24 -0800 (PST) From: MarsMyRat@aol.com Received: by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA07354; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:06:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:06:01 -0500 Message-ID: <961106000601_345959654@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: Diane_Tabellija@xn.xerox.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: symbol sticker Re: RE: Bumper sticker Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk i like the symbol idea without the sexual parts of the "we do it here, there, etc." just $.0000002 worth of input. hugs, jeremy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 21:10:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA21337; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:10:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA21325; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:10:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA26978; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:10:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA29724; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:06:42 -0800 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199611060506.VAA29724@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: NRR: Time zones and voting To: sandoz@sfsu.edu (TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:06:41 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG" at Nov 5, 96 07:13:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Actually, everybody's vote counts... Because the size of Clinton's win will determine his political strength in upcoming years.. Or so say the pundits.. respect, ann From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 21:13:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA21695; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:13:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from isp1.isp.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA21689; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:13:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.139.9.177] (sc177.isp.net [204.139.9.177]) by mail1.isp.net (8.7.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id VAA08689; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:14:49 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: pasque@mail.isp.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19961105171151.0068ae18@pop.slip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:16:46 -0700 To: inanna , "Andy Wyszkowski" , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Gioni Pasquinelli Subject: Re: 215 Rant (NRR) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 5:11 PM -0800 11/5/96, inanna wrote: >Right on Wyszkowski!!! > > >At 05:50 PM 11/5/96 pst, Andy Wyszkowski wrote: >> >> They (bongs, pipes, papers, grunge off, head shops) only stay legal >> because a segment of the population can play the game of... civil >> liberty warfare. ...long quote deleted. Hi, just wanted to let you know that quoting a long article and then adding one little line is bad netiquette. It wastes bandwidth and doesn't stimulate any positivity. If you want to reply then just state your reply and leave out the long quote, we know what you are talking about because we just read the origido not need to see the whole thing over again. Thanks, Gioni pasque@isp.net www.isp.net/~pasque From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 21:15:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA21856; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:15:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA21850; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:15:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA28532; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:15:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA00206; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:10:23 -0800 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199611060510.VAA00206@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: 215? To: shawna-@ix.netcom.com (The Laffin Happy Trip Farmer) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:10:23 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19961104192211.0ca76076@popd.ix.netcom.com> from "The Laffin Happy Trip Farmer" at Nov 5, 96 06:37:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Yes yes yes yes yes yes oh yes... I just heard on the radio (California report, NPR) that Prop 215 has passed!!!!!!!!!!!! As I filled in that particular square, I felt a little thrill go through me... I could just feel it..that it would pass! I can't wait to read the papers tomorrow, full up with quotes from Dennis Peron (cannibis buyer's club founder)...hopefully. And next month's issue of High Times ought to be interesting, too. respect, Ann From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 21:19:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA22149; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:19:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from epic11.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA22143; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:19:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gonzo@localhost) by epic11.Stanford.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) id VAA04584; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:18:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:18:57 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Mark Logan To: Mike Schneir cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR: Re: Vote! In-Reply-To: <199611052239.OAA00238@hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Nah, if you're gonna go independent, vote Shub Niggurath or Yog Shoggoth. As far as the Eldritch Gods go, they're far more pro-active. erm... uh... damn, now everyone knows I'm a Spotty Herbert. need sleep. jon On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Mike Schneir wrote: > > Don't settle for the lesser of evils! Vote Cthulhu for Pres! > --------------------------------------------------------- Jesus saves souls and redeems them for valuable cash prizes. --------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 21:20:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA22227; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:20:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from isp1.isp.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA22217; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:20:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.139.9.177] (sc177.isp.net [204.139.9.177]) by mail1.isp.net (8.7.6/8.7.1) with ESMTP id VAA08811; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:21:06 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: pasque@mail.isp.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:23:01 -0700 To: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Gioni Pasquinelli Subject: Re: NRR: Time zones and voting Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 7:13 PM -0800 11/5/96, TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG wrote: >I really don't get it. It's 7.09 now and Clinton has already won. I know what you mean but anyone that hadn't voted should still get out and vote as there are other issues besides the presidency like state props and local measures so you should still vote. And yes the system should be changed...the media seemed to pick up on this oddity this year. Some decided not to air exit polls and such ad closed and I think this is a step in the right direction. But I also think electoral votes should be given in proportion to the vote for each state and not an all or none vote like it is today. Nonetheless I am just one soul in this world of billions...but my vote still counts! I think :) Gioni pasque@isp.net www.isp.net/~pasque From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 21:51:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA24966; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:51:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from war.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA24958; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:51:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from etheon (surf0007.sybase.com [206.26.54.7]) by war.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA02351 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 21:49:22 -0800 (PST) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Dave Bayer Subject: Re: SFR UnBumper Sticker Super Wet Blanket Post X-Originating-Host: etheon Reply-To: dlb@OCF.Berkeley.EDU In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <1996Nov06.053841+0000@etheon> Date: 06 Nov 1996 05:25:03 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Hummingbird EMail for Windows NT Version 5.0 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In , Leslie Ayres wrote: >My thoughts exactly ... remember, our friends in blue read your bumper >stickers too, and you increase your chances of being pulled over or >picked >out of the crowd .... Though one could go out and get any old reflective sticker and stick it up high so that people could caravan more easily on the highways or back roads. Then, a little silver sticker in the corner could be an easy marker that you are in the right place... dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 22:13:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA27189; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from gem.kern.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA27174; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:13:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyn28.kern.com (dyn28.kern.com [204.212.37.128]) by gem.kern.com (8.8.2/KIS) with SMTP id WAA03451 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:13:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611060613.WAA03451@gem.kern.com> From: "Karen Blockley" To: "SFRAVES@HYPERREAL.COM" Date: Tue, 05 Nov 96 21:53:01 Reply-To: "Karen Blockley" X-Mailer: Karen Blockley's Registered PMMail 1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi All, I have some clients wanting recommendation or two of restuarnts in the city where they can experience super service, fun, and excellent food. Before dinner, they want a well made drink. After dinner, they'll want cappucino at its SFO best. Anyone care to recommend ? I really need some help ! Thanks in advance. KB email: mrsweb@kern.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 22:17:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA27632; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from epic14.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA27624; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:17:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gonzo@localhost) by epic14.Stanford.EDU (8.7.6/8.7.3) id WAA13949; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:16:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:16:42 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Mark Logan To: friends&family Subject: 215, 209 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk seems a bit strange to me that a community which passes 215 would also pass 209... being pro-legalization implies a significant social-liberal lean to me, which is not reflected by the election results. hmmm... but then, there's also the libertarians.... jon --------------------------------------------------------- Jesus saves souls and redeems them for valuable cash prizes. --------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 22:46:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA00166; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:46:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from war.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA00156; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:46:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from etheon (surf0007.sybase.com [206.26.54.7]) by war.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA03109; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:44:22 -0800 (PST) To: blkadder@value.net From: Dave Bayer Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: vote96.ss.ca.gov X-Originating-Host: etheon Reply-To: dlb@OCF.Berkeley.EDU In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <1996Nov06.063330+0000@etheon> Date: 06 Nov 1996 06:32:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Hummingbird EMail for Windows NT Version 5.0 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In , blkadder@value.net wrote: > >Well, they claimed that they would have up to the minute updates of >election results. Here I sit, listening to a Real Audio broadcast, >which >included the concession speech by Bob Dole and Jack Kemp, and they >don't >even have *any* results for the Pres. election, let alone updates on >what >really matters, the Props. *sigh* Well, if you get the text based stuff and wait around for 5 minutes while the server services the queue, you do get the current results.... As of Nov 05 at 10:33 pm -- 24.7 % precincts reporting (6230 / 25273) Propositions Yes Votes Pct. No Votes Pct. 204 * Water Bond 1,266,719 60.1 843,845 39.9 [View map] 205 * Jail Bond 849,688 40.7 1,233,101 59.3 [View map] 206 * Veterans' Bond 1,107,842 53.8 952,892 46.2 [View map] 207 * Friv. Lawsuits 789,752 38.2 1,274,186 61.8 [View map] 208 * Com Cause Limit 1,351,555 65.5 713,706 34.5 [View map] 209 * CCRI 1,266,604 59.8 853,532 40.2 [View map] 210 * Minimum Wage 1,313,141 61.6 818,729 38.4 [View map] 211 * Security Fraud 583,046 28.0 1,497,530 72.0 [View map] 212 * CalPIRG Limit 1,050,088 51.4 992,899 48.6 [View map] 213 * Unins. Drivers 1,668,340 79.8 423,478 20.2 [View map] 214 * Health Care Reg 865,135 42.3 1,178,443 57.7 [View map] 215 * Marijuana 1,152,415 54.1 978,185 45.9 [View map] 216 * Health Reg-Fees 784,553 38.8 1,233,845 61.2 [View map] 217 * Top Tax Bracket 1,033,829 50.3 1,021,557 49.7 [View map] 218 * Prop. Tax Limit 1,216,834 59.7 822,054 40.3 [View map] dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 22:58:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA01077; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:58:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA01070; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:58:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scarab@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA27677; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:58:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 22:58:32 -0800 (PST) From: KaySEE To: The Laffin Happy Trip Farmer cc: Frisco Freaks Subject: Re: 215? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19961104192211.0ca76076@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, The Laffin Happy Trip Farmer wrote: > > I hope to god nobody here (and I assume not, you're all way more informed > than my roommate it seems) votes on *anything* based on *that* line of > reasoning. > > Sorry, dear, the majority of voters vote from emotion, not education. Unfortunately... I'm sad now. 209 looks like it's passing. The biggest deception given to Californians besides Prop 13. Civil Rights Initiative, my ass. Hmm... the one thing we'll get out of this is affirmative action for white males. Oops, I forgot, we already have that... *much sarcasm* affirmative action doesn't mean less qualified. high test scores aren't the only indicator of "qualified". we ain't colorblind. heard about the Texaco scandle? case in point. still waiting for the day when I receive more compliments on my brain than my looks.... but, no, we're not a sexist society anymore.. KaySEE From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 23:06:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA01790; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:06:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA01749; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:05:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA12477; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:05:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (trose@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA04039; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:01:52 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:01:51 -0800 (PST) From: Tony Rose To: Dave Bayer cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: smorgasborg/Re: SFR UnBumper Sticker Super Wet Blanket Post In-Reply-To: <1996Nov06.053841+0000@etheon> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > Though one could go out and get any old reflective sticker and > stick it up high so that people could caravan more easily on the > highways or back roads. Then, a little silver sticker in the corner > could be an easy marker that you are in the right place... > > dave > I think that taht is a really good idea...until a cop shines his light into a parking lot and a million little starts starts winking back at him!...but actually...probably just a few cars would actually have it and it would be useful! I also like the patch idea...i wanna neato patch for my backpack (whine whine)....I also agree with whoever said that they like the idea of a bumper sticker without the sexual innuendo...raves already have a bad rap for being pagan drugged sex fests...related to the other thread of publicizing PLUR...a more tasteful bumper sticker might kill two birds with one stone while not being blatant PLUR/love etc advertisement...besides does it has been done... but then again...Im just being a critic, i actually dont even have a better idea for a better bumper sticker....im all for positive symbolism...smiles, sunshine, hugs...things that make you go hmmmm.... * * ** *** ***** ******** ************* Tony Rose UC Berkeley CS http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~trose "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm" ************** ******* ***** *** ** * * On 6 Nov 1996, Dave Bayer wrote: > In , Leslie Ayres wrote: > >My thoughts exactly ... remember, our friends in blue read your bumper > >stickers too, and you increase your chances of being pulled over or > >picked > >out of the crowd .... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Nov 5 23:15:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA02447; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:15:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA02439; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:15:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA12426 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:15:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (trose@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA05143 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:10:24 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:10:24 -0800 (PST) From: Tony Rose cc: Frisco Freaks Subject: political musings... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk its really discouraging...for a long time I really was so wasted on politics I expected it to all be shit, so i didnt really give one... then a beacon of light that the ignorant majority(flame me please) actually isnt completely sleeping when we can get prop 215 to be taken seriously... so I gather hope, I vote, I regain a little respect for the system... but then for the one beacon of light there is a black hole of lies, deciet(sp?)(isnt that ironic?), ignorance, bad politics (can you say pete wilson is slime?) that just makes me want to give up on it all again...but the question still bugs me, is that playing right into their hands?...probably...oh well...im just gonna move to guatemala or something... be a ravin farmer...anyone wanna come with? * * ** *** ***** ******** ************* Tony Rose UC Berkeley CS http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~trose "clever little epithet" ************** ******* ***** *** ** * * On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, KaySEE wrote: > On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, The Laffin Happy Trip Farmer wrote: > > > > > I hope to god nobody here (and I assume not, you're all way more informed > > than my roommate it seems) votes on *anything* based on *that* line of > > reasoning. > > > > > Sorry, dear, the majority of voters vote from emotion, not education. > Unfortunately... > > I'm sad now. 209 looks like it's passing. The biggest deception given to > Californians besides Prop 13. Civil Rights Initiative, my ass. Hmm... > the one thing we'll get out of this is affirmative action for white males. > Oops, I forgot, we already have that... > > *much sarcasm* > > affirmative action doesn't mean less qualified. high test scores aren't > the only indicator of "qualified". we ain't colorblind. heard about the > Texaco scandle? case in point. > > still waiting for the day when I receive more compliments on my brain than > my looks.... but, no, we're not a sexist society anymore.. > > KaySEE > > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 00:10:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA05883; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:10:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA05872; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:10:20 -0800 (PST) From: StEvEoberk@aol.com Received: by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA03103 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:09:41 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:09:41 -0500 Message-ID: <961106030941_1148326521@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Can I vote? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Forgive my ignorance, but I would really like to vote today, however I just moved to the county and from what I understand you need to re-register, which I failed to do. I've tried to get through to the "voter reg" office, but of course it's been busy for weeks. Anyone know how this works? Thanks, StEvEo P.S. The most important thing in a democracy is for people to think for themselves, with that said, I know one word I've been thinking about this time around is "Equality", I hope you think about it too. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 00:16:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA06246; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom23.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA06239; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:16:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mayer@localhost) by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id AAA09400; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:16:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199611060816.AAA09400@netcom23.netcom.com> To: blkadder@value.net, "San FranDisco Ravers List" Subject: Re: (NRR) More election picks... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Nov 96 20:18:23 PST." Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 00:16:28 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk blkadder@value.net: >> >> As Malcolm X said about JFK "...the chickens came home to roost". > >It is rather amusing that you decry racism, and then quote a racist. Depends on which Malcolm X you're talking about. The pre-visit-to Mecca follower of Elijah Muhammed, or the post-visit-to-Mecca Malcolm X who suddenly saw the big picture and realized that it's just as bad to be anti-white racist as it is to be anti-black racist. In fact, that's why Elijah Muhammed and/or the FBI had Malcolm X killed (some say Louis Farrakhan had a major role). Because he was getting out of divisive hate-mongering war-waging, people-oppressing territory of fomenting a race war (which the FBI would love as they could use it as an excuse to impose martial law and/or reimpose slavery), and getting into the peaceful, enlightening, uplifting social-change arena that made him especially dangerous to the establishment whose very power was an emergent property of social strife, racial/class divisions, etc. They killed Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King for those reasons as well. PS: I voted no on 209, 204; yes on 208, 212, 211, 214, 216, and for Ralph Nader for president. Guess I didn't do so well! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 00:24:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA06753; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:24:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from melvax.sonoma.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA06745; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:24:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from plastikdreams.sonoma.edu (SA-6EN38.sonoma.edu) by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8366) id <01IBI8C6QXLC9I5CPS@SONOMA.EDU> for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 06 Nov 1996 00:24:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 00:26:52 +0000 From: Jonas Hanning Subject: Records! X-Sender: hanning@sonoma.edu To: SFRaves Message-id: <3.0.32.19961106002636.006dd078@sonoma.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 Demo (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, this is for all you record collectors/DJs out there. And the occasional punter as well I guess. I'm looking for a few older records, and instead of going through Hard-to-Find records in the UK (and others that help you find records), I figured I'd ask you guys instead. I'm not offering top $$ for the records, but I'll be more than willing to give you a good price. =) Here's what I'm looking for: 20 Fingers feat Gillette - Short Dick Man [red jerry rmx] - ? Absolut - X-Ray my love - Tribal America Diana Ross - I will survive [sure is pure mix] - EMI Euphoria UK - Mercurial [stone high mix] - Tribal America Idjut Boys & Laj - Jazz Fuc - U-Star Ly - Back 2 Zanzibar - Nite Grooves Millionaire Hippies - I am the music, hear me! - Deconstruction Murk - Bugged Out - Solid Pleasure Romanthony - Ministry of Love - Azuli Rozzo - Into your Space - Bush Sweet Tee - It's my beat [deep stix & kentish town remix] - Deep Distraction Urban Soul - Sex on my mind [dj pierre mix] - BPM King Street Records Urban Soul - Until we meet again [hani's heavenly mix] - BPM King St. If you have any of these, please email me privately. =) Thanks! reespect, jonas *********************************************************** * <> <<>> <> * * <<>> * * "still listening to wax, i'm not using the cd..." * *********************************************************** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 00:54:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA08604; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:54:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA08600; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:54:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id AAA20978; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:54:34 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id AAA16847; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:54:33 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 00:54:33 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: (NRR) politics To: blkadder@value.net cc: sfraves In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996 blkadder@value.net wrote: > On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Randy C Cone wrote: > > > > > Personally I'll be glad when election day is over and we can stop with > > the political discussions on a ravers mailing list. > > Odd, I was under the impression that politics are often a topic of > discussion here. ;-) Ohh that is not my point. ;) peas, Ran (Namasate) / -=*=-/ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 01:02:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id BAA09101; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:02:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id BAA09097; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:02:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id BAA14022; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:04:40 -0800 Message-Id: <199611060904.BAA14022@precipice.v-site.net> From: "Geoff White" To: Subject: NRR: Prop 209 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:02:30 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk For those of you who believe that a YES vote for 209 is in some way making a statement against racism, may I draw your attention to the following map showing how the great state of California voted on this matter, look at the map for yourself, http://vote96.ss.ca.gov/Vote96/html/vote/vote.htm click on propositions notice that proposition 209 is ahead 55% to 445 (@ 1:00 am :) then click on [View map] for 209 Notice the demographics of the voting. Now ask yourself, if voting NO for 209 is a vote for "racism" does that mean that the bay area and specifically the City of San Francisco, is one of the most racist places in the whole state? Or can we draw some other conclusion? All I can say is that it was Maps like this that caused me to move to San Francisco. geoffw From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 01:19:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id BAA10070; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:19:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id BAA10065; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:19:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id BAA22463; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:19:21 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id BAA18406; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:19:20 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:19:20 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: re: nrr (politics) To: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961105215531.007397ac@best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, matthew d. p. k. lanier wrote: > hello all- > > i can't wait for the next election day, so we can get to know each other's > politics EVEN BETTER! =p EEE YUCKO!!!! ;) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 02:02:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id CAA13313; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:02:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id CAA13304; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:02:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id CAA24455; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:02:47 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id CAA20296; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:02:47 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:02:47 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: seeking... To: sfraves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all! Happy post election day (hmmmmm). I'm trying to find some folks who were trying to talk to me about an upcoming benefit at CBC. I'm interested but need to talk to someone (production coordinator or somethin') about details. Thanks in advance and apologies for spamming the list. peas, Ran (Namasate) / -=*=-/ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 02:13:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id CAA14626; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:13:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom23.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id CAA14356; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:13:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mayer@localhost) by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id CAA17873; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:13:18 -0800 Message-Id: <199611061013.CAA17873@netcom23.netcom.com> To: "Geoff White" Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" Subject: Proposition Rope-a-dope (was Re: NRR: Prop 209 ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Nov 96 01:02:30 PST." <199611060904.BAA14022@precipice.v-site.net> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 02:13:17 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Yes, I highly recommend people explore http://vote96.ss.ca.gov ... "Geoff White" : >http://vote96.ss.ca.gov/Vote96/html/vote/vote.htm > >click on propositions >notice that proposition 209 is ahead 55% to 445 (@ 1:00 am :) >then click on [View map] for 209 > >Notice the demographics of the voting. Now ask yourself, if voting NO for >209 is a vote for "racism" does that mean that the bay area and >specifically >the City of San Francisco, is one of the most racist places in the whole >state? > >Or can we draw some other conclusion? > >All I can say is that it was Maps like this that caused me to move to San >Francisco. Even more interesting, look at the map/demographics for prop 214, 216, which are very important propositions that disempowered HMO's and empowered people -- both lost, badly. The only place they did well was in the SF region, because people know what's up here and aren't scared off by the serious $$$ and advertizing lies pitched by the health industries against these props. And everybody statewide was too brainwashed to vote for 211, and 207, even those were very important consumer protection props that lost badly. People don't seem to understand that powerless individuals cannot take on gaggles of corporate lawyers, insider coverups, the ability for corporate personnel to facelessly commit crimes of recklessness and neglect while hiding behind a veil of corporate anonymity, and finally, do battle with nearly infinitely deep corporate pockets that can hire the best legal obfuscation money can buy... an individual or group of individuals doesn't have a chance in hell of pressing a fraud/liability/damage claim against a corporation without hiring one or more bad-ass lawyer(s) who are going to expect to get paid BIG TIME for going up against some serious corporate resistance and SLEAZE. And the only way to do that is to completely uncap contingency fees so that an individual who is not independently wealthy can hire the legal muscle required to do proper battle with a corporation. But then again, given that each stupid ass silicon valley employee unthinkingly followed the advice sent by e-mail by thousands of Silicon Valley CEO's to their employees stating how important it was to vote against these props or corporations would have to just pack their bags and move out of state. What a bunch of fucking PUSSY-ASS FEAR/UNCERTAINTY/DOUBT believing MORONS! I hope you all get what you deserve! Even more pathetic is the passage of prop 218, which is the "son of prop 13" -- this prop. is going to further reduce the funds available for schools and local services, but the language of the prop is so obfuscated that you won't kow this at first glance. I guess that's ok since the property owners that passed this prop can use the tax savings from this prop to send their children to private schools. ANd in 10-20 years, they can spend 10X that money building more jails, buying fancy alarm systems, fencing their property, private security guards, etc. Such a deal -- why, it'll be just like being the elite in south america! Finally, with the passage of prop 204, everybody gets to pay for the special water needs of a minority of extremely rich agri-businesses farming in California. These happen to be some of the richest corporations in the state and they could/should be funding their own water needs by themselves! ANd to do this, we will be damming some important salmon runs and further upsetting the fragile ecology of northern california. Such a deal for all the people that voted for this prop, we get to destroy nature, and further subsidize california agri-business, which already is subsidized significantly because they are "allowed" to pay illegal immigrant workers below-minimum wage, force them to work in illegal conditions, have the government buy back surplus crops at inflated rates, and the state doesn't get any taxes/SDI/ workers-comp/medicare off the "under the table" pay to immigrant workers. A very good deal for the rich agribusinesses, and a very bad deal for you, me, and the immigrant workers. PS: people should begin to know that an individual simply CANNOT read the language of a proposition and understand what the proposition is saying. propositions are written in legalese, so ultimately, everybody should have a lawyer or someone w/ legal savvy (e.g. Ralph Nader) explain what the propoitions mean and actually do. Yes, I've read the propositions, even more importantly, is that I've listened to the opinions of numerous parties who have provided interpretations/ramifications of the props. Then, and only then, can you actually make a decision. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 03:14:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id DAA21921; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:14:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id DAA21906; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:13:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id DAA14307; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:16:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199611061116.DAA14307@precipice.v-site.net> From: "Geoff White" To: Cc: , Subject: Re: (NRR) More election picks...(long) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:14:10 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > I too have stayed out of the fray, until now... > > You are making assumptions John. Unless you know Starchilds entire life > story, it is impossible for you to make the determination if Starchild has > ever in his life has been discriminated against, by whom, and what for. > And to keep things in perspective it is important to note that *OPPONENTS* > of 209 paid for David Duke to come speak against 209. I think you mean to speak IN FAVOR OF 209. This shallow stunt > gives the appearance to the uninformed that proponents of 209 are racist. > Once you can easily label a group racist it is much easier and popular to > decry their position. It is just not right. I see the situation as follows, people tend to promote the group or what-ever group they feel comfortable with, In the US, democracy is a delecate situation, if a strong meme (like Nazism or Bigotry ) runs through a society, is can easily sway a majority of the people to commit acts that are truly evil (do you think Hitler created Nazi Germany all by himself?, but by the same token, were the majority of the German people power hungry jew-killers? Or just appathetic until it was too late?). Affirmative Action was an applied remedy to a particularly strong meme that gave White Males the majority of control over the USA. The facts: Originaly only White Men who were land owners and I believe at least 30 years of age were allowed to vote (someone plese correct this, dates, etc.) Women were not allowed to vote until the 1920's African Americans were not given the vote until 1957 and then not allowed to vote until after the civil rights movement of 1963 - 68. So let's look at the numbers... Number of years US of A has existed. 215 Number of years white women have had the right to vote 73(?) Number of years Blacks (women and men) have had the right to vote 33 Number of years 18 year olds have had the right to vote 29 So for 142 years or 66% (2/3) of the entire existance of the great United States of America only White Males were allowed to vote, run for office, and, by default, control the reigns of government and power. People of color have only been allowed to fully participate in the electorial process (with liberty and justice for all?) for a mere 15% of the lifespane of this nation, an 18 year old could go to war and die in Vietnam but couldn't vote up untill 1968 (and some people still don't want him/her to be out past midnight in SF :) So it seems to me that,Women, people of color (minorities is a confusing word, if you look at the Planet as a whole, it is White people who are in the minority :), and youth have only been allowe to vote for a mere 29 years or 13% of the existance of the US of A. Now, imagine the power base that has been built up by people of European descent who basically controled the country (talk about taxation without representation ;) for 85% (182 years) of it's existance. "Affirmative Action programs have been around about 20 - 25 years, a single generation (as oppose to 9 generations of exclusive govenmental control by People of European descent and 7 generations of exclusive control by European males. > > > > It has been over 400 years since my people were brought here as slaves, a > > great social experiment. Deny the option to read for some 200 years, (more like 300) > > then deny the option to vote for some 350 or so, deny opportunites to (more like 370) > > blacks, women and others for centuries, perfrom the worse sort of > > genocide against the native cultures, not to mention the almost complete and systematic extermination of an indigenous race. > > and then after a GENERATION of > > corrective measures (restitiution some might say), you wan to say the > > playing feild is level. Sir, get out of school and find a job, for > > discrimination is very real in the workplace, it is not a matter of > > academia or philiophical deabte. People are being redlined, and people > > are beign shut out, all because of the color of thier skin. > > You are absolutely correct John. People are being shut out of jobs because > of the color of their skin. For instance, persons seeking jobs in the > Dept. of Corrections are given extra points on tests if they are of certain > national origins. And not suprisingly the system is beginning to actually > backfire, as quotas are met for some ethnic groups and not for others, > locking qualified individuals of what are traditionally minority > groups out of jobs. > Let look at the prison system, where an inordiantly high number of african american males are enmeshed in it, (almost 90% of african american males under the age of 25 are either in jail , on parole, or in some other way enmeshed in the prison system, is this because AA males are "natural" criminals or is the system flawed. Maybe we need more people of color who are corrections officers, police, etc. Remember, in Nazi germany, the "work camps" we're not explicitly for Jews, they were for communist, terrorists and dissidents, I guess it just so happened (sic) that there were many Jews who were communist, terrorist and dissidents, were they naturally that way? or was the system flawed? I myself don't believe in quotas, I believe in hiring the best person for the job, but I also believe that a diverse work force is a more productive and powerful one. I once worked at a "progressive" organization and many people would come up to me and say " We wanna get more black folks working here! what can we do about that" I would reply, "Well, how many black folks do you know ?" The bottom line is that people hire people that they feel comfortable with, Afirmative Action was a measure (albet imperfect) to insure that white males didn't just hire other white males. Now look around you, how many Women are CEOs of fortune 500 companies (a few but they make up 50% of the US population)? How many people of color?, a sprinkling but not as many as the demographics of population. So I ask you, is the playing field level? Where is the Female President? Vice President? > I also remember hearing a while back that Asian-Americans were being > denied admission to UC Berkeley because other minority groups were > under-represented and the Asian community was over-represented. Gee that's > fair, huh? > I know this, if entrance into the EECS department is totally based on merit then IT WILL BE 95% ASIAN, period. > > Please get yourself up to date about the present lawsuit with Texaco for > > proof positive. > > Racism of the caliber displayed is indefensible and will I am sure be > dealt with accordingly. It is however, wholly inappropriate to offer this > as indicitive of how professionals in every Fortune 500 country think. > That would be sterotyping, wouldn't it? Hmm, sterotyping is a lot like > racism isn't it? > Maybe not every, but how many do think that way, would you care to venture a guess? Look into your experience. Racism runs deep in this culture, I remember working as an employee for a large successful computer firm which shall go nameless, I remeber standing in the hall way, (When I was hired in 1987 by this company of 3500 employees, I was the second Black full fledged software engineer working in development (as some of you know there IS a Caste system in Silicon Valley, it goes , Founders/entrepreneurs Engineering Directors Development Engineers "Support" Engineers "Quality Control" Engineers Techs, draftspeople, administrators, assembly workers, freight, etc. Guess where all the women blacks mexicans etc. are. Is this because of lack of merit? Anyways, I was standing in the hall talking to my collegues who all happened to be White males, all of a sudden they start talking about someone who wasn't there (who happened to be jewish) using very derogatory language (none of these guys, to my knowledge were jewish), I thought to myself shit I wonder what they say about me when I'm not there :) There is still a lot of racism in our society, I can understand how some young white men may feel that it is unfair that they have to pay for their forefathers mistakes (and indeed you may be right it is unfair, but we all have to live by mistakes that were made in the past, just because control was relinquished a mere 33 years ago, doesn't mean that all is right in the world. The Rave scene is an indicator that things may be getting better but as many of you can attest form looking around you both in and out of the Scene, we as a group of Americans are not out of the woods yet. > > A vote for 209 is a vote for continued racism.. Stop racism...remeber, > > you too will one day be a minority. time to start looking at the longer > > range when, maybe, just maybe, you might need help as a underepresented > > minority. Yes, it is happening, see the census. Look out for the future > > and vote AGAINST the RACIST 209. > > You have done absolutely nothing to illustrate why 209 is racist. The > current system is what is racist. maybe the map at http://Vote96.ss.ca.gov/Vote96/html/vote/prop/prop-209.961106022322.html might shed some light, notice, by your standards, what area of california are the most racist, now mind you , any one of these areas are people of color the Majority (though in both of these areas White people WILL become a minority within the next 50 years) > > > > > As Malcolm X said about JFK "...the chickens came home to roost". > > It is rather amusing that you decry racism, and then quote a racist. > > Black Adder As usual, A History lesson is in order here... It is true that Malcome X spouted racist statements in his youth and some later years, this was a man who's father, a Garvyite and was eventually murdered for his beliefs, he and his brother and sister were taken away from their mother (who supposedly went insane) and were placed in a foster home. On January 19 (a few weeks before he was assisinated,) he taped an interview in Toronto on the Pierre BErton Show, this pretty much sums up his beliefs before he was killed... "Where an ultimate clash between East and West is concerned, I think that an objective analysis of events that are taking place on the earth today point toward some type of ultimate showdown. You can call it a political showdown, or even a showdown between the economic systems that exist on this earth, which almost boil down along racial lines. I do believe that there will be a clash between East and West. I believe that there will ultimately be be a clash between the oppressed and those who do the opressing. I believe that there will be a clash between those who want freedom, justice and equality for everyone and those who want to continue the system of exploitation. I believe that there will be that kind of clash, but I don't think it will be based upon the color of the skin, as Elijah Muhammad had taught it. However, I do think that the European powers, which are the former colonial powers, if they're not able to readjust their thinking of superiority toward the darker-skinned people, whom they have been made to think are inferior, then the lines can easily be drawn-- they can easily be lumped into racial groups and it will be a racial war. Now look at that map again and ask yourself is Prop 209 about racism and if so, whose? I'll see you all on the dance floor. G From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 03:20:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id DAA22339; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:20:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id DAA22334; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:20:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id DAA05428 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:20:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (acid23@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA04726 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:15:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 03:15:17 -0800 (PST) From: Seth Joshua Horvitz To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR: Living space in Oakland available Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In case anyone is searching for a place to live in the East Bay, we will have a room opening up at our warehouse in the Vulcan Foundry studios on December 1. The warehouse is about 3,000 sq. ft. total with four bedroom-ish spaces, one bathroom, kitchen, and a music studio. The rent is $300/mo +deposit. We are situated about 8 blocks south of the Fruitvale BART station. You would be living with myself (an unemployed dj, techno musician, and UC Berkeley graduate), Darin Marshall (techno producer and product manager at Opcode Sytsems), and Jason Peacock (dj, Pacific organizer, and full-time gardener). We are hoping to live with someone who is as interested in music/djing as we are, which I'm sure applies to most of the people on this list. If you're interested, drop me a line, or call us at (510) 536-9665 See ya, Seth From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 04:12:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id EAA27450; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 04:12:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from rho.ben2.ucla.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id EAA27445; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 04:12:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from kjde.sfsu.edu (slip-220.sfsu.edu [130.212.1.220]) by rho.ben2.ucla.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id EAA30714 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 04:12:53 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961106121531.006bc9c8@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> X-Sender: jonasr@pop.ben2.ucla.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:15:31 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "jonas j. robledo" Subject: far off cry for help..... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk my buddy and boss, a fellow seventh level raver, is travelling to seattle from the dates of nov. 28-dec.2. do any of yous guys know where the phattest clubs are or any seattle info lines? much obliged...... when asked whether he was a raver or a clubber ringo answered, "i'ma rubber." Rave In Peace........the other jonas, the other jonas j., ah shuks, jonas joaquin robledo, turntable philosopher From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 08:00:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA12817; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocketsci.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA12802; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:00:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from Patrick-pc.rocketsci.com by rocketsci.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA08460; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:00:11 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961106160152.006dacfc@rocketsci.com> X-Sender: swatkins@rocketsci.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 08:01:52 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Sam Watkins Subject: Sticker Stuff Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hey all! i managed to track down some information on getting stickers printed pretty cheaply. there's the dude called the Sticker Guy in Reno that does really good work, really quick, for really next to nothing. a quick example of his prices: you can get 1500 4.25" x 1.38" red and black ink on white VINYL stickers for $150.00, this includes shippping. amazing. this cat has a web site with all his prices and what-not: http://www.powernet.net/~stickerguy you can get them in a myriad of sizes (ovals, circles, squares etc.) and in anywhere from 1 color to 4 color....though with the color options, he can only do SPOT color, which pretty much means no colors can overlap. so yeah, check it out! peace -beatjakr ............................................................................ ......................... ....................h i g h e r f i d e l i t y............................. ..................c o m m u n i c a t i o n s.......................... .................deep beats for freeks with jeeps......................... ............................................................................ ........................ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 08:14:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA13880; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:14:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA13873; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:14:37 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14346; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:14:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:14:27 -0800 (PST) To: Dave Bayer cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: vote96.ss.ca.gov In-Reply-To: <1996Nov06.063330+0000@etheon> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On 6 Nov 1996, Dave Bayer wrote: > In , blkadder@value.net wrote: > > > >Well, they claimed that they would have up to the minute updates of > >election results. Here I sit, listening to a Real Audio broadcast, > >which > >included the concession speech by Bob Dole and Jack Kemp, and they > >don't > >even have *any* results for the Pres. election, let alone updates on > >what > >really matters, the Props. *sigh* > > Well, if you get the text based stuff and wait around for 5 > minutes while the server services the queue, you do get the current > results.... Well the stuff did eventually start showing up but it was not very timely, considering that Dole had given his concession speech, and it was announced on the radio that 215 had passed, before any of the Web page stuff started being updated. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 08:17:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA14146; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:17:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA14132; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:17:25 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14573; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:17:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:17:22 -0800 (PST) To: "Niels P. Mayer" cc: San FranDisco Ravers List Subject: Re: (NRR) More election picks... In-Reply-To: <199611060816.AAA09400@netcom23.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Niels P. Mayer wrote: > blkadder@value.net: > >> > >> As Malcolm X said about JFK "...the chickens came home to roost". > > > >It is rather amusing that you decry racism, and then quote a racist. > > Depends on which Malcolm X you're talking about. The pre-visit-to > Mecca follower of Elijah Muhammed, or the post-visit-to-Mecca > Malcolm X who suddenly saw the big picture and realized that it's > just as bad to be anti-white racist as it is to be anti-black racist. You make an excellent point Niels. I sit corrected. ;-) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 08:25:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA14817; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:25:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from guilder.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA14802; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by guilder.ucdavis.edu (8.8.2/UCD3.8.1) id IAA07821; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:24:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:24:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611061624.IAA07821@guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dlb@OCF.Berkeley.EDU From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: Drum N' Bass/Ambient fan needs advice Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 05:27 AM 11/6/96 +0000, you wrote: >In <199611051917.LAA20321@franc.ucdavis.edu>, Rick Riffle wrote: > >>It's called Synesthesia, and the number is (415) 273-1190. > >This isn't the same people in the group on the harthouse label with >the same name is it? You might want to tell the organizers that they >are using one of those already used names that someone was going off >about a little while ago... Nope, and I'm pretty sure the organizer has never heard of them. Too late to change it now. Synesthesia is just the name of the party, not the name of any group or dj performing there. Rick "Let me have silence always in the centre of the shouting, that is essential. Let me have silence so that no pin may drop and not be heard, and not a whisper. Escape us for all our spouting, nor the needle scratching upon this gramophone of the circular cosmic spot. Hear me, mark me, learn me, throw the mind's ear open. Shut up the mind's eye, all will be music. What sculpture of sound cannot, what cannot as a fluid token words, that nothing else cannot." -Wyndham Lewis From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 08:32:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA15445; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:32:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from guilder.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA15427; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:32:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by guilder.ucdavis.edu (8.8.2/UCD3.8.1) id IAA09684; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:32:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:32:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611061632.IAA09684@guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Rick Riffle Subject: Synesthesia (BSP) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Saturday, November 9th - Sacramento 11:00 pm - However long you are still dancin or chillin. Info: (415) 273-1190 (916) 203-8747 DJ's Philip, Wizard, Wesley, Simon, Adrian, Flash, Tyler (I think Adrian and Flash are going to tag team jungle, or maybe it's Adrian and Simon.....Adrian and someone for sure.) Ambient Room: RE: vs. Astronout We will both primarily be playing live, but some records will be used hear and there. Rick "Let me have silence always in the centre of the shouting, that is essential. Let me have silence so that no pin may drop and not be heard, and not a whisper. Escape us for all our spouting, nor the needle scratching upon this gramophone of the circular cosmic spot. Hear me, mark me, learn me, throw the mind's ear open. Shut up the mind's eye, all will be music. What sculpture of sound cannot, what cannot as a fluid token words, that nothing else cannot." -Wyndham Lewis From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 08:54:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA17050; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA17036; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv2.apple.com (A17-128-100-120.apple.com [17.128.100.120]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA22192; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:52:46 -0800 Received: from [17.221.20.215] (campma.apple.com [17.221.20.215]) by scv2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA10236; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 08:54:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199611061654.IAA10236@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: 2012 info Date: Wed, 6 Nov 96 08:53:59 -0000 x-sender: camp@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "Mark D. Camp" To: "kaytee" , "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk 2012 Saturday, November 9th, 1996 Koinonea presents a psychedelic trance ritual dutch, tom, jason, jeremiah free organic fruit chai courtesy of NubChaiCircus 415 525 5052 $8 ____ ____ !E.A.C! Electronic Artists Collective ____ *Astronout* ____ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 09:02:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA17802; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:02:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from slip-3.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA17789; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:02:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from sf-asc-84-232.dialup.slip.net [206.14.14.232] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.52 #1) id E0vLBNJ-0004kT-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:02:50 -0800 Message-ID: <32801BC3.6F08@hunab-ku.com> Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 21:01:55 -0800 From: Jonas Judd Reply-To: jonas@hunab-ku.com Organization: Hunab Ku X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: San FranJungleisco Raves Subject: BSP: Audio Impact Tonite! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk "Thick Heavy Jungle Beatz" "Massive Low-End Sound for Maximum Dancefloor Demolition." Parking in North Beach can be a real drag. I encourage everyone to try and carpool, team up in taxi's, or use public transit. 9p to 3a 1024 Kearny @ Broadway all ages $5. call 415-332-5800 ex. 24-7 for more info. Is it "on"? You decide! ;) Jonas J. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 09:20:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA19410; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:20:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom14.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA19403; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cami@localhost) by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA06288; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:20:33 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:20:33 -0800 (PST) From: Cami Edwards Subject: Re: Proposition Rope-a-dope (was Re: NRR: Prop 209 ) To: "Niels P. Mayer" cc: Geoff White , San FranDisco Ravers List In-Reply-To: <199611061013.CAA17873@netcom23.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Another proposition that seemed to me to be really covert (I never heard much in the way of discussion, on NPR, or ads) was Prop 213. I was really bummed when I saw that this passed. Basically, it says that if you are driving without insurance (which many poor people do, due to the high cost of insurance) and you are in an accident where it is the other drivers fault, they will not be liable for your damages. It also says (this may apply to some of you) that if you are in posession of any illegal substances at the time of the accident, you will not only be charged with that crime, but could also be liable for the accident, even if it is not your fault. Also, the Guardian seemed to think that it could also be used to defend police in excessive violence cases. Scary. I think this is almost more scary than 209. This is major discrimination against low income people, which also tends to be minorities. I really hope the ACLU brings this one up in court. Cami From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 09:52:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA22545; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA22537; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA21223; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:52:33 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:52:33 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199611061752.JAA21223@netcom20.netcom.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: YES ON 209? This is for Starchild et. al. Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Considering the discussion of affirmativer action, and considering the fact that some on the list do not have, let's say, corporate jobs (i.e. working for a fortune 500 as I have done for years on end), and considering the general shielded nature of some peoples upbringing (i.e. what was YOUR neighborhhod like growing up?), I thought I would nab this from clarinet to show what African Americans face EVERY DAY in this motherfucker. And yes, racisim has happened to me. I have YET to hear a solid case of ANYONE on this list or in my very limited lifespan, of a white male being affected by racism other than dishing it out. I am looking for the qualified white male who was passed up by a less qualified woman or person of color....anyone? anyone?...read on! P.S. I am done with this tepid discussion. When UC berkeley is 100% Asian, I am sure my white brothers and sisters will cry foul. After all, based on just teest scores, there are far more Asaians turned away from UC than whites...who knows why. I do know that w/o Affirmative Action in place, everyone, at some point, stands to lose. It's not just all about a black & white thang. 209 will not be put into effect, so save your victory pogo dance. It, like 187, will go down in defeat since it ties the courts hands. If it does hold up? Whatever, time to form alliances and approach things from a different front. Brothers and sisters WILL work it out. Stay tuned. ----- NEW YORK (Reuter) - Tapes showing that Texaco Inc. executives discussed destroying evidence in a discrimination suit are exposing the company to other legal attacks including a federal criminal investigation and expected shareholder suits, lawyers said Tuesday. These actions follow wide-spread publicity over the existence of the tapes and the resulting drop in Texaco's stock, which fell $2 at Monday's close and had dropped another $3.125 in late Tuesday afternoon trading to $94.50. Daniel Berger, who represents black employees who sued Texaco in 1994 for alleged discrimination, said that he has been informed that the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York has launched a criminal investigation into whether the Texaco executives planned to destroy documents sought by his clients. A spokesman for the U.S. Attorney had no comment. In addition to the criminal probe, Melvyn Weiss of Milberg, Weiss, Bershad, Hynes & Lerach, a New York firm known for its representation of shareholders, said his firm has been approached by potential clients who might want to sue Texaco or current or former executives involved in the alleged plan to destroy evidence. ``I would say a number of law firms are looking into them (suits),'' Weiss said. ``I know we have been approached to look at them.'' The existence of the tapes were made public when Berger filed a motion in the discrimination suit seeking sanctions against Texaco. Excerpts from the tapes were included in court documents. The excerpts quote Texaco excutives discussing plans in 1994 to destroy evidence that had been requested by Berger's clients. The executives use expletives and racist terms including ``black jelly beans'' and ``niggers'' to belittle African American employees. Texaco denies that it discriminates and said that if the allegations are true, that they represent ``an outrageous violation of the company's core values and principles.'' The tapes were turned over to Berger's firm Bernstein Litowitz Berger & Grossmann by Richard Lundwall, who was the senior coordinator for personnel services in Texaco's finance department. Lundwall was responsible for keeping minutes at meetings of the most senior Finance Department officers to discuss the development of women and minorities within the department. He said that he had secretly taped the sessions to ensure the accuracy of his minutes. Weiss said the tapes could potentially expose Texaco and certain current or former executives to two types of suits that can be filed by shareholders who allege injury due to a loss value in their investments. One is a class action that can be filed by shareholders who bought securities within a certain time period. They can allege that a corporation issued misleading information or withheld material facts during that time period. They can allege injury if their investments lost value after the information was revealed. The other type is a stockholders derivative action in which shareholders ``stand in the shoes'' of the corporation and sue executives or directors whose activities exposed it to financial loss. New York State Comptroller H. Carl McCall also voiced concern Tuesday about the impact on Texaco's stock. McCall is the sole trustee of the state's Common Retirement Fund that owns more than 1.2 million Texaco shares. ``On behalf of the 880,000 retirees and active members of the Fund, I am greatly concerned that a corporate culture of disrespect and discrimination could have a negative impact on performance and value,'' McCall wrote to Texaco Chairman Peter Bijur. McCall said he wanted to hear from Bijur about the facts in the case and how he planned to address them. -- * "...every dog has his day, huh Mel?" - Tony Montana * From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 10:06:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA24008; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA23952; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:05:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scarab@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22423; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:05:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:05:55 -0800 (PST) From: KaySEE To: Cami Edwards cc: San FranDisco Ravers List Subject: Re: Proposition Rope-a-dope (was Re: NRR: Prop 209 ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk And there was the passage of the Veteran's Bond Act. More money to a special interst group, and, guess what affirmative cy On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Cami Edwards wrote: > > Another proposition that seemed to me to be really covert (I never heard > much in the way of discussion, on NPR, or ads) was Prop 213. I was > really bummed when I saw that this passed. Basically, it says that if you > are driving without insurance (which many poor people do, due to the high > cost of insurance) and you are in an accident where it is the other > drivers fault, they will not be liable for your damages. It also says > (this may apply to some of you) that if you are in posession of any > illegal substances at the time of the accident, you will not only be > charged with that crime, but could also be liable for the accident, even > if it is not your fault. > > Also, the Guardian seemed to think that it could also be used to defend > police in excessive violence cases. > > Scary. I think this is almost more scary than 209. This is major > discrimination against low income people, which also tends to be > minorities. I really hope the ACLU brings this one up in court. > > Cami > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 10:17:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA25173; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:17:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from guilder.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA25163; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:17:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by guilder.ucdavis.edu (8.8.2/UCD3.8.1) id KAA09488; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:16:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:16:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611061816.KAA09488@guilder.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Rick Riffle Subject: RE: Synesthesia (BSP) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Oh, I forgot to tell you. It's only $5 Visuals by Astralscapes "Let me have silence always in the centre of the shouting, that is essential. Let me have silence so that no pin may drop and not be heard, and not a whisper. Escape us for all our spouting, nor the needle scratching upon this gramophone of the circular cosmic spot. Hear me, mark me, learn me, throw the mind's ear open. Shut up the mind's eye, all will be music. What sculpture of sound cannot, what cannot as a fluid token words, that nothing else cannot." -Wyndham Lewis From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 10:23:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA26148; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:23:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA26142; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA16045 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:22:30 -0800 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199611061822.KAA16045@trix.cisco.com> Subject: YES ON 209? This is for Starchild et. al. To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:22:30 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > And yes, racisim has happened to me. I have YET to hear a solid case of > ANYONE on this list or in my very limited lifespan, of a white male being > affected by racism other than dishing it out. > > I am looking for the qualified white male who was passed up by a less > qualified woman or person of color....anyone? anyone?...read on! I disagree here. Racism doesn't just happen in the work place or in schools. It happens everywhere. I admit it is much easier being a white male but racism goes both ways. I've been taunted/tormented before just because I'm white. j PS I voted no on 209. While I don't think the current form of AA is a good solution, I don't think doing away with it is either. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 10:25:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA26343; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:25:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate.Cadence.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA26333; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:25:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.Cadence.COM (8.6.8/8.6.8) id LAA00303 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:25:51 -0700 Received: from cds9258.cadence.com(158.140.32.4) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (V1.0mjr) id sma847304743.000275; Wed Nov 6 11:25:43 1996 Received: from [158.140.8.233] (mac527.cadence.com [158.140.8.233]) by cds9258.Cadence.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18634 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:25:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:25:37 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: noah@cds9258 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: noah@cadence.com (Noah Ruiz) Subject: NRR: I need support... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ...From the list! Hello everyone! Yesterday was the one of the hardest days of my life. The one thing that I thought I could handle has happened, and I'm barely handling it! My father was taken to the emergency room and had to have surgery on his large intestine. Well they found a huge tumor that they took out, and he also has colon cancer. I'm shaking as I write this today, but I'm in need of some support. So if anyone out there has some good thoughts to say to me please do! I tried to not think about it last night and practice my set for BBQ & BEATS, but I couldn't concentrate! =| So I could use all the help I can get. Thanks for your time, Love, Noah Ruiz From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 10:42:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA28098; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA27956; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBCBCE.9C2B5E50@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:38:12 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: Hail Clintonius! Taxus Maximus! Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:26:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Even more pathetic is the passage of prop 218, which is the "son of >prop 13" -- this prop. is going to further reduce the funds available >for schools and local services, but the language of the prop is so >obfuscated that you won't kow this at first glance. I guess that's ok Further reduce funds for schools? Are you aware that per pupil funding, IN CONSTANT DOLLARS, has more than doubled in the last 25 years? That the top 10% of income earners ALREADY pay almost TWO-THIRDS of all the income taxes? Is it fair in a democracy that 1/3 of the population pays 90% of the taxes? That the bottom 2/3 can keep voting to raise the taxes on the top 1/3? We're already working 2 days out of EACH WEEK for the government, and its still not enough!! jim thompson - CUBE ROOT FACT AXON INFO GRID DATA FATE From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 10:53:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA29130; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:53:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from goonsquad.spies.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA29083; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:53:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:53:54 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1996-Aug-2) Message-Id: From: sho@goonsquad.spies.com (Sho Kuwamoto) Subject: Restaurants To: mrsweb@kern.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:53:53 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfraves) In-Reply-To: <199611060613.WAA03451@gem.kern.com> from "Karen Blockley" at Nov 5, 96 09:53:01 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk mrsweb@kern.com writes: > Hi All, > > I have some clients wanting recommendation or two of restuarnts > in the city where they can experience super service, fun, and > excellent food. Before dinner, they want a well made drink. > After dinner, they'll want cappucino at its SFO best. Why are you asking us about restaurants? I thought all of us ravers were peniless idealists who subsist on music, dancing, and the occasional burrito... ;) What's the price range? Where are these people coming from (i.e., what will San Francisco offer that their home city will not), and how adventurous are they? How old are your clients? I'm going to focus on California cuisine here, since I'm assuming your clients are from out of town and will want to have a taste of the local style. Quite expensive, but great, is Chez Panisse. I know it's in Berkeley and you asked for restaurants in SF, but it's one of the most influential restaurants in the United States for a reason. Dinners are prix-fixe, and reservations should be made two weeks in advance. On the moderate to expensive scale ($20-$30/person for appetizer + entree, no wine), I'd recommend Bix, Zuni Cafe, and Mecca for an upscale urban kind of experience (i.e., you feel like you're eating at a fancy place; no jackets required (come on, this is California!) but you look around and people look stylish). If your clients are younger (20s-30s) and would feel uncomfortable in a fancy setting, you might try Bruno's, which has a kind of grunge meets lounge feeling with food as good as any of the above restaurants. You might also want to try Flying Saucer, which I've never been to, but is known for their, um.. fancifully decorated food. On the moderate to inexpensive scale ($10-$15 for entree, no wine), I'd recommend Valentine's, which is a great little vegetarian restaurant, or Aperto, which is a relaxed little italian/california place with a creative list of specials, a good wine list, and excellent antipasti. Universal Cafe might be another good choice. All three of these restaurants are great, but none of them will give you the dinner-as-event kind of feeling that a more expensive restaurant can give you. Aperto: Bix: Bix: Bruno's: Chez Panisse: Flying Saucer: Universal Cafe: Universal Cafe: Valentine's: Zuni Cafe: Zuni Cafe: Warning -- The digital lantern entry for Mecca is just plain wrong. -Sho From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 11:06:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA00511; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:06:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA00500; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:06:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:04:07 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA14946; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:04:07 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: Re: YES/NO ON 209? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I feel that prop 209 is just an excuse to yell discrimination regardless of what or who you are. Why should anyone fill a job position just to fill a billet. They should hire whoever is MOST qualified NO MATTER if they are in the minority or not. Employers want qualified people. That is good buisness. If your not qualified then go back to school. I've seen many different sides of this. Women not getting job because they were female, people of color not getting a job because they were of color and white males not getting a job because they were white or not minority. All three were qualified more then the ones that got the jobs. The employer just had to fill the billet. Why should anyone hire anyone if they are not qualified for that job. It's the individuals fault if they are not qualified. You can not use they excuse that they could not get into school. There are several schools out there that will take anyone that has the money or credit to get money to goto school. If you don't have the money or a line of credit to get money, it's your own fault. If you go for an interview and you have 2 people with the same qualifications, 1 of them is in the minority and 1 is not. Then they better flip a damn coin to see who gets the job. If I owned a big company, I would hire only qualified people no matter who they are. I certainly wouldn't want people that are not qualified to with for me just because a law said I had to fill certain billets. If seen some pretty stupid people of all races, genders and what not doing a job and I wonder how the hell they got that job. I'm not looking for flames here, just thoughts from both sides of this issue. So here's a question to anwser.... Why should anyone get a job just because they are in the minority and not because of how qualified they are? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 11:34:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA03099; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA03091; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:34:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from natasha.coolware.com ([204.179.135.110]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA14767 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:33:49 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961106193209.0073f688@best.com> X-Sender: mdpkl@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 11:32:09 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" Subject: Re: YES ON 209? This is for Starchild et. al. Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 10:22 AM 11/6/96 -0800, you wrote: >> And yes, racisim has happened to me. I have YET to hear a solid case of >> ANYONE on this list or in my very limited lifespan, of a white male being >> affected by racism other than dishing it out. >I disagree here. Racism doesn't just happen in the work place or in schools. >It happens everywhere. I admit it is much easier being a white male but racism >goes both ways. I've been taunted/tormented before just because I'm white. hello all- one day, i was walking from my house, near the haight, to market street, which took me through the western addition. i was minding my own business, thinking to myself. suddenly, a large group of black men formed behind me. no, i was not frightened. they yelled out to me "we don't rob white fuckers like you, we kill them!" they then proceeded to taunt me for about 15 minutes, yelling things to me about my skin color, my parents, and other things upon which they have no factual information to make judgements. they then let me go, at which time i made it to van ness and cried for the next hour. so, white males have never been victims of racism? fuck no! the words of those men ("we don't rob white fuckers like you, we kill them!") have resonated in my mind since then. when someone tries to tell me that i have never experienced racism (there have been other times, also, but i will not go into them now), i remember that day when i was changed from the idealistic young man that i was to the jaded white male i am now. think about that the next time you make a racial judgement, john, like assuming that white individuals are never judged negatively because of their race. pissed off- matt matthew d. p. k. lanier professional hugger and empath mailto:mdpkl@best.com 415-752-3218 _______ / \ / o o \ | ^ | | | ___ \ \_/ / ___ __(___\ \__ __/ /___)__ (______ \________\ /_________/ ______) (_______ ____________________ _______) (______ / \ ______) (_____/ \_____) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 11:44:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA04333; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:44:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA04327; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:43:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id LAA19072; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:43:49 -0800 Message-Id: <199611061943.LAA19072@precipice.v-site.net> From: "Geoff White" To: "Thompson. Jim" , "sfraves - send mail to list" Subject: Re: Hail Clintonius! Taxus Maximus! Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:41:40 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Thompson. Jim > To: sfraves - send mail to list > Subject: Hail Clintonius! Taxus Maximus! > Date: Wednesday, November 06, 1996 10:26 AM > > >Even more pathetic is the passage of prop 218, which is the "son of > >prop 13" -- this prop. is going to further reduce the funds available > >for schools and local services, but the language of the prop is so > >obfuscated that you won't kow this at first glance. I guess that's ok > > Further reduce funds for schools? Are you aware that > per pupil funding, IN CONSTANT DOLLARS, has more > than doubled in the last 25 years? That the top 10% of > income earners ALREADY pay almost TWO-THIRDS > of all the income taxes? > > Is it fair in a democracy that 1/3 of the population pays 90% > of the taxes? That the bottom 2/3 can keep voting to raise > the taxes on the top 1/3? > > We're already working 2 days out of EACH WEEK for the > government, and its still not enough!! > > > jim thompson - CUBE ROOT FACT AXON INFO GRID DATA FATE So how do you propose that we pay for the spiraling lifestyle? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 12:01:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA06211; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:01:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ico.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA06194; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from starbase (starbase.starfishsoftware.com [204.188.181.10]) by ico.com (8.8.2/8.8.2/103196) with SMTP id MAA05873; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:01:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199611062001.MAA05873@ico.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:58:00 -0800 From: Roy Feague Subject: Reverse To: "John S. Lee" , sfraves X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi John - OK then, let me offer you an example. My Dad teaches at Northwestern High School in Flint Michigan. It's a poor, inner-city school, predominantly black, with poor test scores and lots of violence and other social problems. He started there about 20 years ago with the hope of making a real difference. After about ten years, he started to feel frustrated that nothing ever seemed to change, so he started looking to move out of the classroom and into administration. He got himself a Masters and Specialists degrees in Education Administration, and started looking for an opening. The vice principalship of his school opened up, he applied. The principal, and friend of his, brought his application back to him in his classroom. "Bob," he said, "I'm bringing this back to you because I'm your friend, and I'd rather you just know straight out: You are not black, and you are not a woman, and you are not going to get this job. It's that simple." A fine thanks for ten years of service. It happens. But is that even the point? Isn't the self-esteem of black kids growing up in America damaged by programs that say, "you wouldn't get this job/scholarship/whatever on your merits if you weren't black." ??? -Roy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 12:05:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA06618; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from denmark.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA06612; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from Default (Cust96.Max3.San-Francisco.CA.MS.UU.NET [153.35.234.224]) by denmark.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA25448 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:05:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:05:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961106120329.3807a446@earthlink.net> X-Sender: shannonr@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Shannon Subject: Re: RE: don't forget to vote yes on 215! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >>> But it is a step in the right direction! >> >>I just get the impression that a *lot* of people shouting PROP 215! PROP >>215! are missing the point of what the propostion is supposed to do. >> >> ***i responded to this last night, but forgot to cc it to the group. my apologies to black adder for the duplication**** i just wanted to give my $.02 on this topic. from my own personal experience: in 1981 my mother fought what would be a 2 time battle with breast cancer. it was just my mom and myself and i was 11 years old. my mother went through some heavy chemotherapy, which made her sicker than i have ever seen anyone. she was chosen as part of an experiment at stanford to smoke marajuana to lessen the nausea and increase her hunger. after smoking she was able to keep her food down. i have marajuana to thank for my mother's appetite and survival through some rough times. after her rounds of chemo ended, she was told by her doctor that they had already expected her to die. i am thankful for people who discovered the healing powers of marajuana!!!! since cancer runs in my family, and has been a shadow over most of my life and a few others on this group, that i know of, i hope you think of the people like my mother that will benefit from this bill passing! i hope i will never have to be in my mothers place, but i think of all the cancer and aids patients that will be lucky enough to have a bill passing something that will make life easier for them. sorry to be a downer, but this is the real reason this bill needed to be passed! here's hope that none of you will need marajuana to help you survive. peace shannon ~~although it is a dogs life for a cool kat~~ ~~it is the beauty, hope and togetherness that i will forever believe~~ ~~the cappuccino kid (a.k.a. paul weller)~~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 12:10:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA07245; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:10:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ico.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA07201; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from starbase (starbase.starfishsoftware.com [204.188.181.10]) by ico.com (8.8.2/8.8.2/103196) with SMTP id MAA07320; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:10:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199611062010.MAA07320@ico.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:07:00 -0800 From: Roy Feague Subject: RE: Hail Clintonius! Taxus Maximus! To: "Thompson. Jim" , sfraves - send mail to list X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hear hear! School support is vital, but this isn't the way to do it. -Roy ---------- From: Thompson. Jim[SMTP:jthompson@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 1996 11:13 AM To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: Hail Clintonius! Taxus Maximus! >Even more pathetic is the passage of prop 218, which is the "son of >prop 13" -- this prop. is going to further reduce the funds available >for schools and local services, but the language of the prop is so >obfuscated that you won't kow this at first glance. I guess that's ok Further reduce funds for schools? Are you aware that per pupil funding, IN CONSTANT DOLLARS, has more than doubled in the last 25 years? That the top 10% of income earners ALREADY pay almost TWO-THIRDS of all the income taxes? Is it fair in a democracy that 1/3 of the population pays 90% of the taxes? That the bottom 2/3 can keep voting to raise the taxes on the top 1/3? We're already working 2 days out of EACH WEEK for the government, and its still not enough!! jim thompson - CUBE ROOT FACT AXON INFO GRID DATA FATE From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 12:10:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA07307; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA07299; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:10:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id KAA22383; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:59:02 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199611061859.KAA22383@netcom.netcom.com> Subject: South Bay to AUDIO IMPACT ? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:59:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: MaryP76944@aol.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves list ] Is anyone in the South Bay/SF Peninsula going to Audio Impact tonight? I'm going, but I thought it'd be nice to go with some folks. As I don't intend to stay all the way to 3AM, I was going to get there early ( before opening time 9AM ) so that I can get the maximum time in before I leave at about 12AM/1AM . I live in Sunnyvale. I have a truck, so if we use my vehicle, it would just be one passenger and me. Anyways, if the above is workable, send me a reply! Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 12:12:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA07452; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:12:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom23.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA07443; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:12:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mayer@localhost) by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id MAA15314; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:12:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199611062012.MAA15314@netcom23.netcom.com> To: Cami Edwards cc: Geoff White , San FranDisco Ravers List Subject: Re: Proposition Rope-a-dope (was Re: NRR: Prop 209 ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Nov 96 09:20:33 PST." Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 12:12:05 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk yep, 213 is another one that really bothered me. first time i saw it, i was like "drunk drivers -- fuck em i'm voting yes"; it was only later when i figured out that this is a way for people who don't pay off insurance companies to become non-people without any rights. i heard that something like 60Million was funneled into John Garamendi's reelection campaign by insurance companies who in exchange asked for this proposition to be backed by Garamendi. i personally have the means to afford auto insurance and drive insured, however, i remember a time when i was a poor student and had to drive without auto insurance because my research assistantship suddenly disappeared when they fired the professor i was working for -- he did to much hacking and too little publishing (wrote scribe, USENET's arbitron, worked on postscript, etc), and spent too much time teaching students how to be good computer scientists... and i'm sure there's plenty of people raising families and working dead-end jobs (without the free time to seek the higher rewards of our capitalist economy) who spend most of their lives barely paying off their rent and not even being able to consider buying auto insurance (even though it is now illegal to drive w/o auto insurance). anyways, this is a rather suspect war against those that aren't willing to play in the game of the system. if you don't have normal corporate employment, you will find yourself at the mercy of piss-poor health care availability and greedy HMO's that pay their doctors bonuses to not give you the best treatment available. and if you can't afford car insurance and some fat cat in a mercedes paralyzes you cuz s/he was talking on the cell-phone instead of driving, you will no longer have the right to sue his/her insurance company for damages and pain/suffering caused by the other party. you are automatically presumed guilty if you have the misfortune of poverty (or have no desire to play by the rules of a consumption crazed death-culture). yeah, this is a democracy, right? every dollar is a vote! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 12:12:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA07506; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:12:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ico.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA07500; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:12:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from starbase (starbase.starfishsoftware.com [204.188.181.10]) by ico.com (8.8.2/8.8.2/103196) with SMTP id MAA07666; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:12:34 -0800 Message-Id: <199611062012.MAA07666@ico.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:09:00 -0800 From: Roy Feague Subject: RE: YES/NO ON 209? To: knucklehead , sfraves X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Woah! Knucklehead, was this a typo? Surely you don't mean this the way it sounds. It's the fault of the poor that they are poor?!?!? -Roy >If you don't have the money or a line of credit to get money, >it's your own fault. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 12:19:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA08101; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:19:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay2.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA08094; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:19:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from heald.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQborx03902; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:18:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp99.hayward.heald.edu by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17142; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:24:45 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:24:44 -0800 Message-Id: <9611062024.AA17142@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Austin Woffington From: Aryck Subject: Re: SPIRIT, and some other stuff Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Thanks mann. . . It's like that for me too. Ever since I've met a few people from the list, and have gone to a couple parties with a phat ass vibe, I can't help but to be addicted to the "good part" of the scene. The good part is the part of the scene with the people, the music, the dancing, the meeting new people, the having fun without the influence of anything but the people around you. Have you ever gone to a room at a party where everyone was e'ing and you weren't? If you stay in there, with those people, eventually you'll feel as if you're on E. It's a strange effect, I've noticed it a lot, and I really don't have any strong urge to try any drugs because I'm looking for people who can give me that feeling. I sometimes can get like that, but only when there aren't a lot of people who ruin the whole thing ie: gansters, or people who don't understand the scene. My girlfriend is like that, she's pretty drug free and I'm really proud of her for that, but she hasn't found the fun in the scene that I've found so I rarely go with her (take her). Therre are also a couple girls who go to raves fairly often, but mostly the massive ones, and I haven't seen them sober yet. I think that they use raving as a place where you can do your drug, or try a new one, and be accepted nonetheless. Thats pretty stupid. Like when you can be dancing or just sitting there, and someone will come up to you and ask what you're on, it's even worse when they're totally be-gollied (gee-willikered??) when you tell them that your sober. Or when you say that you went to a rave last weekend to someone and they ask what drugs you did. People just don't know much at all. But really, sober people are a rare thing at a rave (or at least a fairly big one, excluding small vibey ones). I've only been to one party where people only really smoked a little pot, n thats all (I'm pretty sure). Pot's a drug, but it's more of a just do it drug, instead of a plan it out and do it drug. Either which of I don't fit to myself. Yeah, anyway, so as I was sayin, thanks. And I totally believe in expanding (not contracting) your mind with certain substances, basically 2, LSD and Psylocybin, those two things have tought me sooooo much on how to think and learn that I will never regret experiencing them. Never forget to remember to learn. . . Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 12:24:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA08571; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:24:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA08546; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:23:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id MAA26178; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:23:50 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199611062023.MAA26178@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: RE: Reverse To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:23:50 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves list ] In reply to a post from John S. Lee asking for examples of a white person being turned down for a job in favor of a less qualified non-white person, Roy Feague offered this example from his family history - > Hi John - > OK then, let me offer you an example. My Dad teaches at Northwestern > High School in Flint Michigan. It's a poor, inner-city school, > predominantly black, with poor test scores and lots of violence and other > social problems. He started there about 20 years ago with the hope of > making a real difference. After about ten years, he started to feel > frustrated that nothing ever seemed to change, so he started looking to > move out of the classroom and into administration. He got himself a > Masters and Specialists degrees in Education Administration, and started > looking for an opening. The vice principalship of his school opened up, > he applied. The principal, and friend of his, brought his application > back to him in his classroom. "Bob," he said, "I'm bringing this back to > you because I'm your friend, and I'd rather you just know straight out: > You are not black, and you are not a woman, and you are not going to get > this job. It's that simple." > A fine thanks for ten years of service. Being that I'm not related to the Roy's dad, some questions do come to mind that may not have occured to Roy: 1. Was this "friend" sincere ? I suspect that a lot of times, whites are told that they lost a job to affirmative action or quotas , when in truth the folks hiring just didn't want the white person for the job. They can deflect the dissapointed applicants anger against "the rules" than the folks doing the hiring. 2. No indication of whether the person eventually hired as vice principal had better qualifications , and was a black woman too. > It happens. But is that even the point? Isn't the self-esteem of black > kids growing up in America damaged by programs that say, "you wouldn't > get this job/scholarship/whatever on your merits if you weren't black." > ??? And, as I hypothesized above, affirmative action can encourage unqualified and less qualified whites to live in a fantasy that they didn't get a job or whatever that they didn't get a job due to a damn quota. Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 12:38:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA10068; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:38:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA09966; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:37:24 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from dec-7.CE.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA09442; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:32:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by dec-7.CE.Berkeley.EDU (5.57/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA03234; Wed, 6 Nov 96 12:20:42 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:20:40 -0800 (PST) From: "J. Cohen" To: Andy Wyszkowski Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: 215 Rant (NRR) In-Reply-To: <9610058472.AA847245773@smtplink.acer.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Andy Wyszkowski wrote: > > If you're not sick with glaucoma, cancer, undergoing chemo or > radiotherapy, or starting to experience full blown AIDS symptoms, you > should not abuse the 215 name. If it wins, it's a victory for > medicine, it's a victory for the legalization movement, but if > everybody busts out with the kind and starts snapping bongloads on > Market St, there's going to be a really negative public backlash. I'd > hate to lose this for the sick because some fuckups want to get high > and claim they have a ticket to ride because of 215. I agree with you but i'd have to say its a hollow victory. The pharmaceutical (sorry i cant spell today) drug industry is a terrible giant. The drugs doctors can prescribe to the above mentioned patients for their conditions are typically at ridiculous prices....Unfortunately I strongly believe that if this proposition is going to really provide medicinal use of maryjane than it has to be through a regulated controlled manner, ie through a pharmacy. Through this the 'bad drug' image that marijuana has attained might be circumvented. Just as there isnt a need for people to grow mold on bread when they have a need for antibiotics...they shouldnt have to be doing something that is shady by american society standards, cultivating marijuana. A hope of mine, is that when this goes to the courts maybe someone will see this as a compromise. Legalization is just not going to happen any time soon. Let the drug companies continue to make loads of dinero taking advantage of the sick....but at least let the sick get the drug they need. just my lil ol opinion... j From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 12:43:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA10747; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:43:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from wired.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA10738; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:43:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.62.132.226] (pizint.hotwired.com [204.62.132.226]) by wired.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA28667; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:43:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:43:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: rawnsley@hotwired.com (Andrew Rawnsley) Subject: politics and religion Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk remember that line about not talking about politics or religion? judging by some of the remarks being banded about in the wake of the (ultimately pointless and meaningless) election results, we need to reassess our basic thinking on these issues. i thought "we ravers" were supposed to be progressive, forward thinking and "the new-school." perhaps i have been deluding myself. ar From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 12:49:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA11284; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:49:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from xinet.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA11269; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:49:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora by xinet.COM via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) for id MAA21247; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:41:05 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611062023.MAA26178@netcom22.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:41:00 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Tony Rotundo Subject: RE: Reverse Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 12:23 PM -0800 11/6/96, Larry Ching wrote: > In reply to a post from John S. Lee asking for examples of a white person >being turned down for a job in favor of a less qualified non-white >person, Roy Feague offered this example from his family history - I missed John's post, but if that's what he was asking for, I can offer something interesting: While attending the State University of New York at Buffalo, I worked for three years in the Purchasing Department of the school. What I saw, every single day, was bids for goods and services go out to minority owned and woman owned business, even if they were not as qualified as other businesses. I saw it happen all day, everyday. Not in every instance, but in a majority. Purchasing Agents were required to investigate MWOs first, and being MWO status increased your odds of getting a bid more than anything. (Unless it was for the new Caddy for the President of the school, and then it was a relative of some high-ranking administrator...Makes the world go 'round! =) As for a white person being turned down for a job, I saw that too, when the department was hiring a purchasing agent and the person hired was the first non-white person on the list. He just happened to be the 6th person in line per qualifications and talent. I know this, I saw it happen, we (in Purchasing) talked about it at length as interviews were going on. Those are clear examples of what I saw, and should not reflect on how I feel or the stance I take. I'm an idealist, so I would love to see everyone getting the jobs they would like, and are best talented for, without compromising their principles. I'm sort of a romantic too, but that's a different thread... Tone From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 13:08:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA13397; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:08:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom23.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA13390; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:08:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mayer@localhost) by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id NAA22355; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:08:14 -0800 Message-Id: <199611062108.NAA22355@netcom23.netcom.com> To: "Thompson. Jim" Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" Subject: Re: Hail Clintonius! Taxus Maximus! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Nov 96 10:26:00 PST." Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 13:08:13 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Further reduce funds for schools? Are you aware that > per pupil funding, IN CONSTANT DOLLARS, has more > than doubled in the last 25 years? That the top 10% of > income earners ALREADY pay almost TWO-THIRDS > of all the income taxes? This is not true. The middle class pays most of the taxes. The top 10% of income earners are there because they've figured out how to manipulate their income so that they can tax deduct a significant portion of their income as "business related"... some do this as individuals, some do it as corporations. > Is it fair in a democracy that 1/3 of the population pays 90% > of the taxes? That the bottom 2/3 can keep voting to raise > the taxes on the top 1/3? Life is not fair -- i thought you knew that already. Is it fair that 2/3 of the population is working 60 hour weeks and die an early death from cancer/heart-disease caused by being wage slaves steeped in industrial pollution while the top 1/3 can use all the leisure they gain by having their money (and other people) work for them... meanwhile they excercise regularly, live in pollution/violence free suburbs, educate their children at the best schools, and relax by playing golf and vacationing in tropical paradises? That's not fair! > We're already working 2 days out of EACH WEEK for the > government, and its still not enough!! I notice you work at Lockheed -- corporate welfare (to companies like Lockheed/ Martin) for unecessary military expenditures is the largest drain on our taxes today -- exceeding the amount we spend on WELFARE, HEALTH, EDUCATION and INFRASTRUCTURE by many orders of magnitude. (I'm guilty of this as well, as my research is currently funded by ARPA -- but they chose us to do the work because we can get this non-defense R&D contract done in 1/10th the time, with 1/10th the expense, and 1/10th the overhead of a company like Lockheed -- and when we're done, we're GIVING AWAY the ressults of our work to businesses interested in productizing internet related collaboration tools). Meanwhile, I've also experienced how inefficiently government money is spent at "the lazy L" and a number of other military contracting sites. I basically see such corporate welfare as socialism and make-work programs, so I don't think it's all bad. I would feel 100% good about such programs fostering science and technology research and education if they were able to fund the employment of a larger segment of society, and if the results were more easily accessible by all. Instead, much of the military work is done "in secret" and the results are kept "secret" from the taxpayers/corporations whose tax dollars are funding the work. ANd in general, a few "fat cats" at the top of companies like Lockheed/Martin are making big bucks, a few congreessmen and senators are making big bucks off of bribes they are receiving to keep the "pork" flowing to their corporate welfare buddies, while the workers are actually getting paid at below-market rates (but at least they don't have to work as hard as they would in the free market). Yes, I mind that I work 2 days a week for the government and get very little in services back. The main reason for that is that we're busy keeping a lot of useless military projects funded -- because otherwise your congressional/senatorial representatives would find themselves without jobs if they didn't ensure that their constituents continued to receive "make work" defense pork from the government. i would be much happier if that money flowed into fixing infrastructure, educating the populace, socialized health care, etc. instead, we support a small minority of big companies and their employees through "corporate welfare" and build more prisons (more corporate welfare for prison guards, prison commisary, police, etc) for the increasing majority of people that fall through the cracks. and proposition 218's passage isn't helping. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 13:09:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA13499; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA13480; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:09:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBCBE3.A7D66140@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:08:51 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: Reverse Racism.... Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 12:56:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I know some people in SF that are the typical anti-voucher liberals - "to protect the public schools" of course. I asked them where they send their two daughters and was surprised when they said they sent them to public school in SF! They send them to one of the special "magnet" schools that are almost impossible to get into (there's a LOTTERY to decide who gets into the "good" public schools!). I found out later that they didn't get their daughters in through the lottery - they declared them to be Hispanic! I will leave it to the readers to determine how fair they think this system is! jim thompson - CUBE ROOT FACT AXON INFO GRID DATA FATE BTW: $ spent per pupil in various countries: % of GDP Constant '91 $ US 3.5% 6,984 France 3.4% 3,630 Japan 2.3% 2,707 Ireland 3.6% 2,083 source: US Dept of Education, Nat. Center for Ed. Statistics, Center for Edu. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 13:29:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA15454; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:29:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from yam.tenetwork.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA15431; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:28:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from Feynman.tenetwork.com (feynman.tenetwork.com [10.10.2.99]) by yam.tenetwork.com (8.7.6/8.7.2) with SMTP id NAA11927; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:22:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32811198.555D@ten.net> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 14:30:48 -0800 From: Pengo Reply-To: Pengo@ten.net Organization: Pengo Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com CC: pengo@ten.net Subject: KRON Ch4 at Cannibus Club Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This was the funniest thing I have seen on the news in a while!! Picture this: The two anchor people are talking briefly about Prop 215 and it's passing. :) Then they switch to the 'on the spot reporter' who is at the Cannibus Club (whose name I forget). This is what he said in his report on local TV. "Yes Tom right now I'm in the middle of a 'smoke fest' of sorts. And I am shure that all these people here have their doctors perscriptions on hand ready to show anyone." This isn't an exact quote. But it's close. -=Pengo=- Blake "Pengo" Merriam From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 13:29:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA15503; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:29:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from locusts.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA15465; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:29:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dlb@localhost) by locusts.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA01501; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:29:11 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:29:10 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bayer X-Sender: dlb@locusts.berkeley.edu To: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: Re: Proposition Rope-a-dope (was Re: NRR: Prop 209 ) In-Reply-To: <199611062012.MAA15314@netcom23.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Niels P. Mayer wrote: > and i'm sure there's > plenty of people raising families and working dead-end jobs (without > the free time to seek the higher rewards of our capitalist economy) who > spend most of their lives barely paying off their rent and not even > being able to consider buying auto insurance (even though it is now > illegal to drive w/o auto insurance). If you leave $35000 with the DMV, you don't have to have insurance.... Actually this is what the 1996 California Driver Handbook says: "California's COMPULSORY FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY LAW requires every DRIVER and OWNER of a motor vechile to maintain financial responsibility: -Coverage by a motor vechile or automobile liability insurance policy. -A desposit of $35,000 with DMV. -A surety bond for $35,000 obtained from a company licensed to do business in California. -DMV approved self-insurance." So, if you don't have insurance and someone runs into your driveway into your beautiful microbus which cannot be replaced because they only make generic parts now, you cannot sue the driver. If you don't have insurance because registation plus insurance for being young is costing 1500+ per year and you get hit by an arsehole in a Lexus who runs a red light, you cannot sue even if you lose the use of an arm... Nice little law in a nice state which does not have a public transportation system that will allow you to get around without a car unless you live in an urban center (a bike works to a certain extent, but there is no bus line within two miles of my house except from 7-9 and 5-7)... California's do not want to give up their cars and part of the reason is because it makes getting around this place just too difficult (if you still want to have a job to pay rent that is) so no money goes into improving public transit because no one is using it because it is not good enough. Nice cycle... dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 13:43:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA16821; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:43:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA16802; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:42:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.134.39] (mg134-039.ricochet.net [204.179.134.39]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA27464 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:40:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611062140.NAA27464@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: LUAH Date: Wed, 6 Nov 96 13:47:45 -0000 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: "SFRaves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk listen understand accept hug From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 13:43:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA16889; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:43:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from wired.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA16878; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:43:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.62.132.226] (pizint.hotwired.com [204.62.132.226]) by wired.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07819; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:43:22 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:43:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: rawnsley@hotwired.com (Andrew Rawnsley) Subject: Re: politics and religion Cc: Gioni Pasquinelli Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >At 12:43 PM 11/6/96 -0800, Andrew Rawnsley wrote: >>remember that line about not talking about politics or religion? >> >>judging by some of the remarks being banded about in the wake of the >>(ultimately pointless and meaningless) election results, we need to >>reassess our basic thinking on these issues. i thought "we ravers" were >>supposed to be progressive, forward thinking and "the new-school." perhaps >>i have been deluding myself. > >We ravers are who we are, individuals. Everyone has their personal >opinions, please don't make the stereotypical assumptions that most people >do with labels. And could you please elaborate slightly on the election >results being pointless and meaningless? (is the apocalypse or something >coming soon?) Maybe you could have let "we ravers" know how to be >progressive and forward thinking and laid it all out for us before the >election rather than after. > >I am not attempting to flame you but just to illicit a little more >expression from you. You made some pretty broad statements but without >saying much more. > >G I completely agree with you. we are all INDIVIDUALS. that is why the sort of debate that happens on these subscription lists such as this really should try and avoid touching on issues of a highly individual and personal nature. let's get that sort of thing out into the open, not confining it to the net. for some reason people are much more inclined to talk about "touchy" subjects behind the anonimity of an e-mail address, hence the epidemic of flaming, and not so inclined face-to-face. (which also explains why i get accusatory/hatemail letters and phone messages, but am very rarely confronted in public about my ideas... no forked tongue here, mate!) part of being an individual means having responsiblity to be ourselves within the collective, and the ultimate responsiblity is maintaining a level of respect for others opinions and personal space. however, when it comes down to politics and religion, it seems that our societal conditioning and upbringing, and our real deep down psychological fears rear their ugly heads and we get...umm wot's the word(s)...carried away. it's ok being passionate about things we believe in, as long as that belief is something we have come to realize on our own, through experience and contemplation, and not because of pressure from the outside environment or by inheritance. if being a "raver" (ie; someone involved with the underground dance movement) is a title you're comfortable with then you need to look at WHY you are one. (those uncomfortable with the term, REALLY need to ask why you are one!) i found that the day i realized that i was in this for LIFE, not just the entertainment value, my perspective on the definition of "progressive" and "forward thinking" and just about everything else, changed. it changed from exterior terms, to very internal ones. not that i think everyone has to think the same way, but we do need to be aware of the bigger picture: relating to ourselves first, then to our environment. that is what i mean by "new school." this is after all 1996. unfortunately it seems the great majority of people are unuable to relate their individual experience to the collective experience. once you're able to make the leap to holistic thinking, politics and elections become meaningless. as a passive observer of the american "democratic" process it seems that ultimately the individual american "vote" is a tradeoff. you're given the impression that your opinion matters in the great (rapidly failing) experiment that is the United States, when in reality it's your dollars and your time (ie: work hours). how else can you explain the ridiculous two-party system which has more to do with electoral coffers and corporate sponsorship (ie; bribery) than ideology? how else do explain the complete irelevance of the poor in this country (wot? no money, no job -NOT INTERESTED!) not that any other system is any more effective, it's just that the self-righteousness which is inherent about the governmental system here is overwhelming. it obviously isn't working (need i provide examples?) so why are we propping it up, and when are we going to come to terms with the fact that things are going to have to be restructured in a major way? fortunuately i believe that the restructuring is going to be done for us... in a few years we'll all be looking back and realizing what a joke this whole "democracy"/government thing really is. things are changing... remember pompei? respect ar From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 13:50:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA17572; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from uhost.ampex.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA17552; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:50:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ampex.com (amppo.ampex.com) by uhost.ampex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00754; Wed, 6 Nov 96 13:48:38 PST Received: from dst.dst-eng by ampex.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10361; Wed, 6 Nov 96 13:53:06 PST Received: from dst-s4-130.ampex by dst.dst-eng (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02281; Wed, 6 Nov 96 13:49:50 PST Received: by dst-s4-130.ampex (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA06666; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:47:50 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:47:50 -0800 From: grant@ampex.com (Grant Melvin) Message-Id: <199611062147.NAA06666@dst-s4-130.ampex> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: HULA X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ----- Begin Included Message ----- listen understand accept hug ----- End Included Message ----- Hurl Usurp Lust Agitate From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 13:53:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA17935; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:53:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA17891; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:53:23 -0800 (PST) From: Tekno313@aol.com Received: by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA12705 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:52:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:52:45 -0500 Message-ID: <961106165244_1450213850@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Fwd: Re: YES/NO ON 209? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Listen, anyone who is educated on this issue, no matter which side of it they're on, understands that job positions, etc. DO NOT go to unqualified applicants. So let's just drop that aspect of your argument right away. The issue is this: does discrimination still exist? Yes. just ask the 1500 or so African-Americans who work/ed at Texaco, who have filed a lawsuit beacuse their superiors have verbally abused them and denied them promotions, and because top execs at the corporation were heard on audio tape calling black people "Black jelly beans" while discussing the issue at meetings. To me, Affirmative Action should exist because we as humans are not perfect. We ALL have our biases, prejudices even hates about things. How could we not? This, in addition to the current state of affairs in regards to racial and gender relations makes Affirmative Action vital because it acts as an apparatus that negates any possible prejudices/pre-concieved notions any employer, admissions board may bring into a situation or have about a particular applicant. To me, it's about making opportunities available to people who may not have that chance if it were solely up to the employer. Affirmative Action is also about things like outreach programs. Universities have/had these programs in place so that less fortunate people in our society(who disproportionately happen to be people of color) can gain the knowledge that yes, there IS more to education after high school, and that a higher education is key to socio-economic empowerment. With the passage of 209, outreach programs are now illegal. That's a travesty. --Monty In a message dated 11/6/96 11:08:21 AM, knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) wrote: < Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: Re: YES/NO ON 209? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >> --------------------- Forwarded message: From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: 96-11-06 14:08:21 EST I feel that prop 209 is just an excuse to yell discrimination regardless of what or who you are. Why should anyone fill a job position just to fill a billet. They should hire whoever is MOST qualified NO MATTER if they are in the minority or not. Employers want qualified people. That is good buisness. If your not qualified then go back to school. I've seen many different sides of this. Women not getting job because they were female, people of color not getting a job because they were of color and white males not getting a job because they were white or not minority. All three were qualified more then the ones that got the jobs. The employer just had to fill the billet. Why should anyone hire anyone if they are not qualified for that job. It's the individuals fault if they are not qualified. You can not use they excuse that they could not get into school. There are several schools out there that will take anyone that has the money or credit to get money to goto school. If you don't have the money or a line of credit to get money, it's your own fault. If you go for an interview and you have 2 people with the same qualifications, 1 of them is in the minority and 1 is not. Then they better flip a damn coin to see who gets the job. If I owned a big company, I would hire only qualified people no matter who they are. I certainly wouldn't want people that are not qualified to with for me just because a law said I had to fill certain billets. If seen some pretty stupid people of all races, genders and what not doing a job and I wonder how the hell they got that job. I'm not looking for flames here, just thoughts from both sides of this issue. So here's a question to anwser.... Why should anyone get a job just because they are in the minority and not because of how qualified they are? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 14:00:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA18651; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from locusts.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA18636; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:00:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dlb@localhost) by locusts.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA01766; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:00:28 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:00:27 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bayer X-Sender: dlb@locusts.berkeley.edu To: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: Full mooon in December? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ok, that about says it all... Anyone know when it will be? dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 14:54:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA24126; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:54:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA24071; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:54:33 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from value.net (blkadder@value.net [204.188.125.4]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA10545 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:48:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16628; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:43:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:43:10 -0800 (PST) To: Dave Bayer cc: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: Re: Proposition Rope-a-dope (was Re: NRR: Prop 209 ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Dave Bayer wrote: > So, if you don't have insurance and someone runs into your driveway into > your beautiful microbus which cannot be replaced because they only make > generic parts now, you cannot sue the driver. If you don't have insurance > because registation plus insurance for being young is costing 1500+ per > year and you get hit by an arsehole in a Lexus who runs a red light, you > cannot sue even if you lose the use of an arm... Nice little law in a > nice state which does not have a public transportation system that will > allow you to get around without a car unless you live in an urban center > (a bike works to a certain extent, but there is no bus line within two > miles of my house except from 7-9 and 5-7)... California's do not want to > give up their cars and part of the reason is because it makes getting > around this place just too difficult (if you still want to have a job to > pay rent that is) so no money goes into improving public transit because > no one is using it because it is not good enough. Nice cycle... While I think this prop stank, and voted no on it, this is incorrect. Uninsured motorists cannot sue for pain and suffering, but they can sue for actual property damage. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 14:54:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA24173; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA24103; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:54:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com (larryc@netcom22.netcom.com [192.100.81.136]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10515 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:44:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id OAA13948; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:40:47 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199611062240.OAA13948@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: Dec. Full Moon To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:40:47 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves ] From what I marked on my calendar, the December full moon is at it's fullest the afternoon of Dec 24th ( Christmas Eve!!! ). From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 14:55:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA24209; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:55:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA24117; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:54:47 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com (emout19.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.45]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10486 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:40:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA11145 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:36:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:36:12 -0500 Message-ID: <961106173611_1450224918@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: THANKS EVERYONE!!! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk As i lay in bed I can just picture all the incoming positive energy blasting into my soul...and throat!!! Owww!Oh boy, only four more days of the Erothromyicin and I should be a happy little raver!!! COME ON evrybody go get your FAMTASIA tickets!!! PLEASE!!! They wont be for sale on the night of the party! You can get them at Primal and at Housewares! Check the calender for more details. the party is the 15th of this month. Dj's Tom, Ethan, Jonathan, Rob Doten, John Howard, Boomerang Fidget,Sin, Judge, Kraig.... 12 bucks! 510-559-2529!end sick persons blatant plug! Jonathan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 14:56:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA24299; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:56:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA24152; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:54:53 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from value.net (blkadder@value.net [204.188.125.4]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA10494 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:42:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16111; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:38:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:38:15 -0800 (PST) To: Andrew Rawnsley cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: politics and religion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Andrew Rawnsley wrote: > remember that line about not talking about politics or religion? > > judging by some of the remarks being banded about in the wake of the > (ultimately pointless and meaningless) election results, we need to > reassess our basic thinking on these issues. i thought "we ravers" were > supposed to be progressive, forward thinking and "the new-school." perhaps > i have been deluding myself. Well, if you think that everyone should feel the same way on every issue, I would agree. The wonderful thing about this scene is that it really does encompass a very diverse mixture of people. This is a strength, not a weakness. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 14:56:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA24380; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:56:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA24194; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:55:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com (mail1.sirius.com [205.134.253.131]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10507 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp031-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.31]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id OAA21122 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:38:56 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0b33.32.19961106144415.00a3ff1c@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0b33 (32) Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 14:44:29 -0800 To: NRR Central From: Fun Monger 99 Subject: Re: Hail Clintonius! Taxus Maximus! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Further reduce funds for schools? Are you aware that > per pupil funding, IN CONSTANT DOLLARS, has more so what? education is the single most important factor that contributes to a working democracy. the lower a person's education level, the lower their income tends to be, the lower their socioeconomic status, which leads to lower voter turnout. of course, it would be nice if everyone paid for school with their own money, wouldn't it? then only the rich could afford to go and maintain their position indefinately. yah. great solution. > than doubled in the last 25 years? That the top 10% of > income earners ALREADY pay almost TWO-THIRDS > of all the income taxes? please don't quote empty statistics. if you want to convince us, show us all the data. for instance, does the top 10% of income earners earn 10% of the total money? no. obviously not. maybe they earn TWO-THIRDS even?? > Is it fair in a democracy that 1/3 of the population pays 90% > of the taxes? That the bottom 2/3 can keep voting to raise > the taxes on the top 1/3? the voter turnout of the lower socioeconomic classes is far lower than the higher ones. that is, a higher percentage of those in the top 1/3 vote than the bottom 1/3. or would you prefer that the top 1/3 (with all the money) run the country? that isn't democracy. the us has a democracy. if you don't like it, go somewhere else where you can lord over people with money. -brendan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 15:03:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA25174; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:03:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from twaxx.twaxx.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA25165; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:03:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by twaxx.twaxx.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) id OAA08843; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:51:39 -0800 From: "-=jack=-" Message-Id: <9611061451.ZM8841@twaxx.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:51:36 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Geoff White" "Re: (NRR) More election picks...(long)" (Nov 6, 3:14am) References: <199611061116.DAA14307@precipice.v-site.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: "Geoff White" Subject: Re: (NRR) More election picks...(long) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, mayer@netcom.com, jack@twaxx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > and then after a GENERATION of > > corrective measures (restitiution some might say), you wan to say the > > playing feild is level. Sir, get out of school and find a job, for > > discrimination is very real in the workplace, it is not a matter of > > academia or philiophical deabte. People are being redlined, and people > > are beign shut out, all because of the color of thier skin. ------------------------ Yes, this is complete and utter bullshit, but it goes to show the real power of propaganda and advertising. I don't really believe that without such, 209 would have passed, because, as someone already noted (John, maybe), there are very few cases in which white people have actually suffered any discrimination which amounted to not getting a job, or other such tangible circumstances. I do, however, feel that it will be very difficult, as it has been for the last 20 years or so, to enforce such legislation. There are so many ways in which employers can hide the real reasons they employ one person and not another, that in an individual situation (which is, IMHO, where this really needs to hold up, i.e. it needs to actually serve the interests of the real individuals who have been discriminated against) it's very difficult to get a conviction based on discrimination. I'm not really sure what the real solution is, as it's my suspicion that until we willfully abandon the real implementation of bigotry, we will never be free of these problems. Now that is not to say that I'm against equal opportunity laws, as I believe we should do any and everything we can to stop this shit. This is one of the reasons I strongly agree with Niels, that limits need to be placed legally to severely curtail what can be purchased. The corporation, in today's world, is effectively above the law, given enough money, as are a few individuals (although it's much more obvious at the corporate level, and much more widespread in occurrence). This is a big problem, and I believe strongly that this is one of those bastions of the "white male land owning power having individuals", and it's a way they can perpetrate and perpetuate the continuation of bigotry, through the use of the corporate veil. just my two... -=jack=- (This text composed by voice) -- ======================================================== http://buchu.eit.com:8888/ ======================================================== -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJcRkwAAAEEANoOMXed+AYlxZ+W+wwh4Y0k5RXWOchD61yfX+xWyK4RyHqk t56t2fugPdY8EhRWr09meMsX1ijSslsK3IIIGm/5/gKzH09GJRLJOWW+ynpXRxtb /BErcstAMthUzEC1ZMJg1Mdg0rMPuu0WHjU0ZnhkY+fTUg+nNU4AahBXYf+RAAUT tBktPWphY2s9LSA8amFja0B0d2F4eC5jb20+iQCVAwUQMlxGTE4AahBXYf+RAQFW wQP9FVMu+L/Z/URQye2RoWLtUDNvIdsc7pQVbhk60qKamrIsuPtUG6FYeFhOAMkp GgG0FZxXsawUQp/v9QbcaPIacDn1QI/dDHnon7WRO/5ShkLCA8inWpcCwNduZu4H wMD0FnPAg9BYXBExwxOaHyD86IqVnnMnYbDuq9ABNTpNGaQ= =vucK -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 15:05:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA24426; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA24198; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:55:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com (larryc@netcom22.netcom.com [192.100.81.136]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10490 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:40:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id OAA13385; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:36:50 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199611062236.OAA13385@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: hate crime? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:36:50 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves ] [ WARNING! This post continues a topic (racism) that some may feel is not SFRave related.] Recently, Matt Lanier ( a really nice guy and no bigot, as far as I know ) , described a personal experience - > From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" > Subject: Re: YES ON 209? This is for Starchild et. al. > > > hello all- > > > one day, i was walking from my house, near the haight, to market street, > which took me through the western addition. i was minding my own > business, thinking to myself. suddenly, a large group of black men formed > behind me. no, i was not frightened. they yelled out to me "we don't rob > white fuckers like you, we kill them!" they then proceeded to taunt me for > about 15 minutes, yelling things to me about my skin color, my parents, and > other things upon which they have no factual information to make judgements. > they then let me go, at which time i made it to van ness and cried for > the next hour. 1. Let's assume this was all witnessed and documented by mayor Willy Brown, a multiracial squad of police officers with camcorders, and everyone's most reliable stand-up friend. I want to ask, did a chargable crime happen here, as described? Can the group be charged with a hate crime? 2. The type of "racism" described here is hard to differentiate from territorial gang activity. I'm not trying to say that Matt had it easy, but if he had been a member of a rival group or gang, he probably would ended up in a hospital or the morgue. As it was, while Matt's obvious caucasian persuasion marked him as a target of severe intimidation for their amusement, it also signaled that he was not a territorial rival, which may have been the case if he appeared black or pacific islander or latino or southeast asian. My father, who ran with the "bad crowd" in his youth, finally admitted to me a few years ago that his gang used to attack guys from other neighborhoods just for being on the wrong street or at the same dance or just for the hell of it. It's that fucked-up primate territorial tribalist bullshit you can see in action all over the US and the world. > so, white males have never been victims of racism? fuck no! the words > of those men ("we don't rob white fuckers like you, we kill them!") have > resonated in my mind since then. when someone tries to tell me that > i have never experienced racism (there have been other times, also, but > i will not go into them now), i remember that day when i was changed > from the idealistic young man that i was to the jaded white male i am now. 3. Definitions.... we need more words in our vocabulary to differentiate between all the ugliness that is being described by the term now. It's something that scholars more informed and word-wise than I have addressed - I can't go into it here. 4. Not to make Matt's experience any less, but his is one of a few replies that did not address the ascpect of racism that was the topic of John S. Lee's post. The topic was economic racism : minorities having less ability to get ahead in white-dominated fields because whites - conciously OR subconciously - would prefer to hire and work with other whites. John asked for an example of a white person not getting a job in favor of a non-white person with LESS qualifications . So far, Tony Rotundo seems to have come up with the first ( 2:00PM ). More replies will probably follow. 5. This whole family of thread topics on SFRaves may be painful to many, and considered off-subject for SFRaves, but sometimes these things must come out. We must remember that , while we may find out that others have beliefs that alarm us, or maybe even scare us a little, we have shared an experience of "the vibe". We are all fellow traveler souls on this dirtball we call Earth. 6. I don't have the time or the words to describe what I want to say. Love to you all. Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 15:16:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA26453; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:16:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA26446; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:16:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:16:05 -0800 (PST) From: Andy Thomas To: "J. Cohen" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: 215 Rant (NRR) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, J. Cohen wrote: > I agree with you but i'd have to say its a hollow victory. The > pharmaceutical (sorry i cant spell today) drug industry is a terrible > giant. The drugs doctors can prescribe to the above mentioned patients > for their conditions are typically at ridiculous prices....Unfortunately I > strongly believe that if this proposition is going to really provide > medicinal use of maryjane than it has to be through a regulated > controlled manner, ie through a pharmacy. Through this the 'bad drug' > image that marijuana has attained might be circumvented. > > Just as there isnt a need for people to grow mold on bread > when they have a need for antibiotics...they shouldnt have to be doing > something that is shady by american society standards, cultivating marijuana. > > A hope of mine, is that when this goes to the courts maybe someone will > see this as a compromise. Legalization is just not going to happen any > time soon. Let the drug companies continue to make loads of dinero taking > advantage of the sick....but at least let the sick get the drug they need. why should a sick person let themselves be gauged by the pharmaceautical industry when they can grow their own medicine for free? pot is just like any other plant, there's nothing "shady" about cultivating it. the clause in 215 that allows people with prescriptions to grow their own eliminates the need to get the drug profiteers (legal and illegal) involved. I don't understand why you see this as a bad thing... andy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 15:18:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA26645; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from twaxx.twaxx.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA26627; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:18:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by twaxx.twaxx.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) id PAA08917; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:06:41 -0800 From: "-=jack=-" Message-Id: <9611061506.ZM8915@twaxx.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:06:38 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Geoff White" "Re: (NRR) More election picks...(long)" (Nov 6, 3:14am) References: <199611061116.DAA14307@precipice.v-site.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: jack@twaxx.com, "Geoff White" , , mayer@netcom.com Subject: Re: (NRR) More election picks...(long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk but I also believe that a diverse work force is a more productive and powerful one. ------------- I believe this is true... -=j=- -- ======================================================== http://buchu.eit.com:8888/ ======================================================== -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJcRkwAAAEEANoOMXed+AYlxZ+W+wwh4Y0k5RXWOchD61yfX+xWyK4RyHqk t56t2fugPdY8EhRWr09meMsX1ijSslsK3IIIGm/5/gKzH09GJRLJOWW+ynpXRxtb /BErcstAMthUzEC1ZMJg1Mdg0rMPuu0WHjU0ZnhkY+fTUg+nNU4AahBXYf+RAAUT tBktPWphY2s9LSA8amFja0B0d2F4eC5jb20+iQCVAwUQMlxGTE4AahBXYf+RAQFW wQP9FVMu+L/Z/URQye2RoWLtUDNvIdsc7pQVbhk60qKamrIsuPtUG6FYeFhOAMkp GgG0FZxXsawUQp/v9QbcaPIacDn1QI/dDHnon7WRO/5ShkLCA8inWpcCwNduZu4H wMD0FnPAg9BYXBExwxOaHyD86IqVnnMnYbDuq9ABNTpNGaQ= =vucK -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 15:19:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA26794; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from twaxx.twaxx.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA26760; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:19:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by twaxx.twaxx.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) id PAA08984; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:07:58 -0800 From: "-=jack=-" Message-Id: <9611061507.ZM8982@twaxx.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:07:55 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Geoff White" "Re: (NRR) More election picks...(long)" (Nov 6, 3:14am) References: <199611061116.DAA14307@precipice.v-site.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: jack@twaxx.com, "Geoff White" , Subject: Re: (NRR) More election picks...(long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk So I ask you, is the playing field level? ----------- If it was, we wouldn't need to have this discussion... or in other words HELL NO!!!! -=j=- -- ======================================================== http://buchu.eit.com:8888/ ======================================================== -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJcRkwAAAEEANoOMXed+AYlxZ+W+wwh4Y0k5RXWOchD61yfX+xWyK4RyHqk t56t2fugPdY8EhRWr09meMsX1ijSslsK3IIIGm/5/gKzH09GJRLJOWW+ynpXRxtb /BErcstAMthUzEC1ZMJg1Mdg0rMPuu0WHjU0ZnhkY+fTUg+nNU4AahBXYf+RAAUT tBktPWphY2s9LSA8amFja0B0d2F4eC5jb20+iQCVAwUQMlxGTE4AahBXYf+RAQFW wQP9FVMu+L/Z/URQye2RoWLtUDNvIdsc7pQVbhk60qKamrIsuPtUG6FYeFhOAMkp GgG0FZxXsawUQp/v9QbcaPIacDn1QI/dDHnon7WRO/5ShkLCA8inWpcCwNduZu4H wMD0FnPAg9BYXBExwxOaHyD86IqVnnMnYbDuq9ABNTpNGaQ= =vucK -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 15:22:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA27139; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA27128; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:22:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (raygun@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19832; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:22:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:22:34 -0800 (PST) From: Reagan Reid To: deeje cooley cc: SFRaves Subject: Re: LUAH In-Reply-To: <199611062140.NAA27464@rgate.metricom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, that comes once after everyone is through talking politics. Reagan On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, deeje cooley wrote: > > listen > understand > accept > hug > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 15:32:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA28096; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:32:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from twaxx.twaxx.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA28087; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:32:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by twaxx.twaxx.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) id PAA09125; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:20:44 -0800 From: "-=jack=-" Message-Id: <9611061520.ZM9123@twaxx.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:20:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Geoff White" "Re: (NRR) More election picks...(long)" (Nov 6, 3:14am) References: <199611061116.DAA14307@precipice.v-site.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: "Geoff White" , Subject: Re: (NRR) More election picks...(long) Cc: mayer@netcom.com, jack@twaxx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk There is still a lot of racism in our society, I can understand how some young white men may feel that it is unfair that they have to pay for their forefathers mistakes (and indeed you may be right it is unfair, but we all ------------------ Whoa, let's hold on a second here. I'm white, but my forefathers had 0 to do with this shit. I'm a first generation immigrant myself. My folks were never part of the "white establishment" that held and wielded both power and bigotry here in the U.S. My ancestry is Irish, primarily, on 1 side, and Icelandic on the other (ok, so my ancestors were berserkers, and if your family was living in the North Atlantic seas several hundred years ago, my ancestors may have pulled up in a boat and raped and killed everyone in your families village... I'm really not sure). What's my point? I believe a quote from Malcolm, obtained through Geoff White will do quite nicely here. There are basically two times of people in the world today, WRT this issue. Those who would continue oppression, and those who would end it. My only question is, which one are you? The Rave scene is an indicator that things may be getting better but as many of you can attest form looking around you both in and out of the Scene, we as a group of Americans are not out of the woods yet. ----------------- I'm white, as I said, but the prevalence of people on the mailing list whining about gangsters every time they go to a party that has attendees who are Hispanic or Black definitely makes me wonder. Funky techno tribe a week or so ago is a case in point... -=jack=- (This text composed by voice) -- ======================================================== http://buchu.eit.com:8888/ ======================================================== -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJcRkwAAAEEANoOMXed+AYlxZ+W+wwh4Y0k5RXWOchD61yfX+xWyK4RyHqk t56t2fugPdY8EhRWr09meMsX1ijSslsK3IIIGm/5/gKzH09GJRLJOWW+ynpXRxtb /BErcstAMthUzEC1ZMJg1Mdg0rMPuu0WHjU0ZnhkY+fTUg+nNU4AahBXYf+RAAUT tBktPWphY2s9LSA8amFja0B0d2F4eC5jb20+iQCVAwUQMlxGTE4AahBXYf+RAQFW wQP9FVMu+L/Z/URQye2RoWLtUDNvIdsc7pQVbhk60qKamrIsuPtUG6FYeFhOAMkp GgG0FZxXsawUQp/v9QbcaPIacDn1QI/dDHnon7WRO/5ShkLCA8inWpcCwNduZu4H wMD0FnPAg9BYXBExwxOaHyD86IqVnnMnYbDuq9ABNTpNGaQ= =vucK -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 15:53:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA00254; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:53:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA00243; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:53:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.134.226] (mg134-226.ricochet.net [204.179.134.226]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10168; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:51:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611062351.PAA10168@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: RE: LUAH Date: Wed, 6 Nov 96 15:58:38 -0000 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: , "SFRaves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Well, that comes once after everyone is through talking politics. LUAH is a protocol for social discussion, not something that happens AFTER the fact. LISTEN to each other make sure we UNDERSTAND what is being said ACCEPT each other for who we are HUG each other, because physical contact is a great way to remove fears and make friends :-) peace and love, deeje -------------------------------------------------------------------------- deeje cooley Journeyman Software -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 15:55:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA00435; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from ssd.loral.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA00431; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:55:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from macpo.ssd.loral.com (macpo.ssd.loral.com [158.184.3.188]) by ssd.loral.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA11108; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:54:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611062354.PAA11108@ssd.loral.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:50:00 -0800 From: "KING, JAMES" Subject: Re: (NRR) More election picks...(long) To: Geoff White , -=jack=- , mayer , sfraves X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone I'm new to this list and I was wondering what this public key block was all about. Would someone let me know ---------- From: -=jack=- To: jack; Geoff White; sfraves; mayer Subject: Re: (NRR) More election picks...(long) Date: Wednesday, November 06, 1996 3:06PM but I also believe that a diverse work force is a more productive and powerful one. ------------- I believe this is true... -=j=- -- ======================================================== http://buchu.eit.com:8888/ ======================================================== -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJcRkwAAAEEANoOMXed+AYlxZ+W+wwh4Y0k5RXWOchD61yfX+xWyK4RyHqk t56t2fugPdY8EhRWr09meMsX1ijSslsK3IIIGm/5/gKzH09GJRLJOWW+ynpXRxtb /BErcstAMthUzEC1ZMJg1Mdg0rMPuu0WHjU0ZnhkY+fTUg+nNU4AahBXYf+RAAUT tBktPWphY2s9LSA8amFja0B0d2F4eC5jb20+iQCVAwUQMlxGTE4AahBXYf+RAQFW wQP9FVMu+L/Z/URQye2RoWLtUDNvIdsc7pQVbhk60qKamrIsuPtUG6FYeFhOAMkp GgG0FZxXsawUQp/v9QbcaPIacDn1QI/dDHnon7WRO/5ShkLCA8inWpcCwNduZu4H wMD0FnPAg9BYXBExwxOaHyD86IqVnnMnYbDuq9ABNTpNGaQ= =vucK -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 16:05:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA01421; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:05:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ssd.loral.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA01412; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:05:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from macpo.ssd.loral.com (macpo.ssd.loral.com [158.184.3.188]) by ssd.loral.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA11356 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:04:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611070004.QAA11356@ssd.loral.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:00:00 -0800 From: "KING, JAMES" Subject: public key block To: sfraves X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone I'm new to this list and I was wondering what this public key block was all about. Would someone let me know From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 16:07:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA01648; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:07:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA01643; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:07:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:05:11 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA20991; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:05:11 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: YES/NO 209?? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk What about that guy on the news that didn't get some contract because he wasn't in the minority, Sued the company and won. They bring him up everytime they talked about 209. I read and article last year (sorry can't remember the magazine) it had a bunch of babies lined up in 5 rows of about 6-8. At the very end was a single white baby. The title of the article was " Hey whitey, it's your turn to sit at the back of the bus". All the other babies were of color. It stated by the middle of 96 to early 97 that white males will be in the minority. So, maybe 209 might be a good idea. The last thing I have to say about this issue is we have to start teaching our children to love and respect EVERYONE in the same way we would want to be treated. That way when they grow up they won't need to even have the issue of prop 209 or anything that discriminate against certain race, gender..etc.. We may not be able to change the here and now, but we can do something about the future. So let's stop blaming one another and let's work together on making the future a better place for our kids. Now, let's get back to RAVING. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 16:28:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA03964; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:28:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ico.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA03958; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from starbase (starbase.starfishsoftware.com [204.188.181.10]) by ico.com (8.8.2/8.8.2/103196) with SMTP id QAA05805; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:28:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199611070028.QAA05805@ico.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:25:00 -0800 From: Roy Feague Subject: NRR: Reverse Discrimination To: Larry Ching Cc: sfraves X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi Larry - My example is not one of official discrimination due to affirmative action, but unofficial reverse-discrimination. 1. My Dad believed his friend to be sincere... can't say much more than that, since I wasn't in his shoes, but I think my Dad would have a pretty good idea after working with this man for many years. 2. Yes, a black Vice Principal was eventually hired, and unfortunately, quite unlike the admired principal, turned out to be a an incompetent alcoholic. He was recently fired. 3. True, there are certainly cases where AA is the scapegoat for a legitimately less-qualified applicant , but then, it's certainly not always the case, either. I don't believe that is the situation here. Are you reluctant to accept the idea that this could be a case of very real discrimination? Or were you just pointing out some of the ways that people may cry wolf unjustly? -Roy > 1. Was this "friend" sincere ? I suspect that a lot of times, whites are > told that they lost a job to affirmative action or quotas , when in truth > the folks hiring just didn't want the white person for the job. They > can deflect the dissapointed applicants anger against "the rules" than > the folks doing the hiring. > 2. No indication of whether the person eventually hired as vice principal > had better qualifications , and was a black woman too. > 3. And, as I hypothesized above, affirmative action can encourage unqualified >and less qualified whites to live in a fantasy that they didn't get a job >or whatever that they didn't get a job due to a damn quota. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 16:37:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA04799; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:37:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA04793; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:37:20 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id TAA19756; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:32:58 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25917; Wed, 6 Nov 96 16:32:56 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 2813C5C0; Wed, 6 Nov 96 17:33:16 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:29:21 -0800 Message-Id: <2813C5C0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re: Full mooon in December? To: "\\SFRaves\\" , Dave Bayer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk well, we could start by checking to see when the full moon falls on...couldn't we? :) deepfog ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Full mooon in December? Author: Dave Bayer at ccsmtp Date: 11/6/96 2:00 PM Ok, that about says it all... Anyone know when it will be? dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 16:58:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA06633; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:58:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wrs.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA06627; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:58:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from blackcomb ([147.11.45.27]) by mail.wrs.com with SMTP id AA13398 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:57:58 -0800 Message-Id: <3281333A.6871@mail.wrs.com> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 16:54:18 -0800 From: George Jimenez Reply-To: georgej@wrs.com Organization: Wind River Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re. Knucklehead's Input Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk First of all, much respect to everyone: However, I'm getting very emotional about something which is supposed to be intellectual. "Knucklehead" just stated that maybe Prop 209 is a good idea since he read an article that excacerbated his fears of becoming White male MINORITY. I'm truly disheartened, saddened, and well, just plain disappointed that he feels that way. As a minority who's somewhat struggled, it was at U.C. Berkeley where I discovered exactly how much a disadvantage I'd had in comparison to my fellow white schoolmates with parents as professionals and very little extraneous worries (ie. money, jobs, etc.) It's just plain SAD that minority populations INCREASES while support for their advancement in society DECREASES. I received my bachelor's degree in two majors and was allowed the opportunity to prove myself worthy and able at one of the finest institutions in the world...and not only do I thank God, I also thank the the systems and programs which gave me that opportunity. It's such a pity they will now be abolished by 209 for without them, future generations of minorities will never get the decent opporunity I had. Peace and love always. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 17:07:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA07528; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom23.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA07522; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:07:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mayer@localhost) by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA18063; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:07:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199611070107.RAA18063@netcom23.netcom.com> To: Fun Monger 99 Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" Subject: Rantus Maximus NonRavimus (Re: Hail Clintonius! Taxus Maximus! ) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Nov 96 14:44:29 PST." <3.0b33.32.19961106144415.00a3ff1c@pop.sirius.com> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 17:07:19 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >or would you prefer that the top 1/3 (with all the money) run the country? >that isn't democracy. In case the recent elections haven't clued people in, the USA is not a democracy, and in fact, the TOP TEN PERCENT OF THE COUNTRY DO IN FACT ALREADY RUN THE COUNTRY. That's not democracy, it's a "kinder gentler" plutocracy hidden behind the anonymous and always-smiling face of the corporate receptionist and corporate media hype spinners turned politician. Wake up! people don't vote, dollars do. those with the most dollars win. Although such plutocratic government is easy to point out in latin american countries, people seem blinded to think that the USA isn't a plutocracy. IMHO, it is, with the special added twist that the ruling class happens to be embodied by large multinational corporations rather than ruling families of ancestral wealth and property. To make matters worse, these companies (GE, Time/Warner, Westinghaus, Disney/Turner, most insurance companies) own the press and the media by which our ideas of governmental choices -- our very notions of what constitudes "freedom" and "democracy" -- are shaped. (why is it that "ross perot" is the only media-approved third party deserving of mention when "ralph nader" garnered as many votes in some districts (e.g. SF) as perot did?? Perhaps nobody in the media wants you to know about someone who refuses to spend advertising dollars (kickbacks to the media); someone who makes the media control over the electoral process a first-class issue? >the us has a democracy. if you don't like it, go somewhere else where you >can lord over people with money. given the erosion of "democracy" in the US, i'd love to work in the netherlands, but I doubt i'd get citizenship, nor could i find work easily as i'm not an EEC member. you see, the europeans have seen what it's like to live under fascism and know well to avoid it, whether it be totalitarianism fascism of the Nazi's, or the upcoming corporate-run fascism of the US. The US has been too isolated from such political goings-on to know fascism if it shat in our faces, so when fascism hits here, by the time people realize what's up, it'll be too late. perhaps with the ushakable shadow government of the CIA/NSA/FBI, perhaps it's already here?? for example, nobody happened to say a thing about the recently enacted (by Clinton, fascisms wonder-boy) anti-terrorism laws which allows a person who is not a citizen charged with a crime (whether it be human rights protesting or actual terrorism) to be deported without any due process whatsoever. as the clampdown continues, nobody will raise a fuss as the FBI starts tapping 1 in 10 phone lines (proposed, perhaps soon to pass if another act of terrorism happens), and nobody will raise a fuss as our constitutional rights to speak freely and assemble peacably (either physically or in cyberspace) will become illegal. All in the name of national security or in the name of "keeping drugs off the streets" or "protecting the children" -- or any other form of scare tactics that'll make people believe the barbarians are at the gate waiting to knock down the pretty pink flamingoes in front of the ancestral trailer-home. Our government will soon have us believing that near-martial law conditions are needed to protect the freedom and safety of right-thinking honest, hard-working "americans"; anybody not fitting that description will be "them" not "us" and will have no rights -- we'll be convinced that we're under attack from within, and need to enact these austere measures, which we'll do as happily as we sent Japanese-Americans to concentration camps during world war II. soon, our constitutional rights that we take for granted as americans will seem as fuzzy and distant as all those other myths of americana, e.g. freedom, liberty, justice for all. so, no , sorry, I strongly disagree that this is a democracy, certainly not a constitutional democracy. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 17:09:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA07782; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:09:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA07776; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:09:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA03299; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:09:20 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199611070109.RAA03299@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: YES ON 209? This is for Starchild et. al. To: khoury@hyperreal.com (Sami Khoury) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:09:19 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Sami Khoury" at Nov 6, 96 11:57:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > hi John- > > I voted against 209, so save your venom ;) But I've got a comuple of > comments/questions on your post. > > > And yes, racisim has happened to me. I have YET to hear a solid case of > > ANYONE on this list or in my very limited lifespan, of a white male being > > affected by racism other than dishing it out. > > > > I am looking for the qualified white male who was passed up by a less > > qualified woman or person of color....anyone? anyone?...read on! > > Are you kidding? There was a recent landmark court case where a qualified > white male was denied admission to med school in favor of a less qualified > black male. The white guy won his case, but the fact is, initially > someone less qualified than he was chosen on the basis of race. Good point (thanks to others as well...the lawyer who won the case was the co-author of 209). Anyway, 1 case, ideed. 2 cases? Dozens? Hundreds? Ok. There are MILLIONS of cases of whites acting against blacks for: employment, economic growth, justice (lynchings, all-white juries, racist judges), need I go on? (And DAMN I thought I was thru ;) ). For centuries white males have had Affirmative Action. You want a job Mikey, let me make a call. You want a promotion thomas, why don't you come to our club, it's exclusive you know. I'm sorry, we had to decline your loan, you live in a high risk district. I'm sorry , our club has stopped accepting applications at this time. I'm sorry, the apartment for rent was just rented. All of this crap still happens today. It's really sad to me. I understand that if researched carefully, we can find instances of discrimination of whites under the GUISE of Affirmative Action. I would suggest the lot of us go to the ACLU home page to see what AA really is: http://www.aclu.org/ I have been working with a white colleague on the whole AA issue for cloase to a year. We think we have a very good plan, and I'd like to share it with you briefly. Affirmative Action: This is necessary as a measure of restitution for pattern discrimination. However, why AA has failed has been a mystery. The way many whites and some blacks et. al. speak is that AA isn't needed (still no black CEO's in the Fortune 500...after 30 years no less...I guess that means there are no black qualified candiates huh?). Anyway I think AA should be implemented in the following form. 1 - Race plays a factor IF: .the minority is underrepresented in the field or position .there is a history of discrimination in the field or position 2 - Any candidate considered for hire under AA MUST BE QUALIFIED. No exceptions. (Of course, "qualified" has been traditionally used to exclude blacks, but this point needs to be hammered home nonetheless since it is the ideal.) 3 - AA cannot be used for groups who meet the 5% economic standard. <- the clincher. .The REAL test for AA is economic. IF African-Americans or any other minority is making (+/-)5% of the majority, they are not eligible for AA. This means, in todays terms (this will change, rest assured. This country is becoming, very, very brown...and I ain't talkin' Willie ;) ), that African-Americans should make 95% - 105% of what whites make to be pulled off the AA list. Once a group is off the list no more AA. We can gahter these numbers now. This number takes into account the poverty rate, and actual earning power of the group in mind. Any group can be put on the list if they fall below the 5% mark (if you're white in California, you will need this at some time too...everyone will at some point). So what is accomplished is a levelling, and a dilution of the numbers game. We're talking economics. I could care less if there are no black engineers IF my people (or a portion thereof, I am jewish too y'know) are making 95% of what whites make, there WILL be plenty of black engineers, doctors, scientists, businessmen, bankers, educators. rest assured, money does wonders for a people. Ask most successful immigrant groups. So now we have a hypothetical dilemma: Blacks, Whites, and Asians are all within the 5% mark, our Hispanic and South Pacific Islander bro's have a greater disparity. Question: Who gets into school? good question. I think a portion of the seats should be reserved for AA students. If south pacific islanders make up 2% of the populus, they should have 2% of the seats held. This should be for all groups that fall within the AA criteria. the other non-reserved seats? Lottery. Luck of the draw for qualified candidates. Question: Who gets the job? another good question. For those not under AA I think it's employers discretion, or a lottery. For qualified AA candidates, they are given preference, period. See the thing here is, yes, people will be turned down for jobs. But the trend is temporary and has an economic target. When a group has 5% +/- they go into the regular pool, where it's luck of the draw or mgrs. discretion, preference. The other element that will make all of this work is STRICT ENFORCEMENT OF DISCRIMINATION LAWS. If an employer is found to discriminate against anyone due to race, etc. The FULL FORCE of the law should be brought down upon their sinning heads. Also a very stiff mandatory fine should be levied, AND statutory compensation paid to those affected. All costs covered by the offending company. There we go, my solution for a system that heals, has limits, and benefits ONLY THOSE THAT NEED IT! Ok, now I'm really done...really...really... No I'm not...I will not vote for a democrat again. Yeah, yeah, I voted straight demo, but will not forgive them fro dropping the ball on Affirmative Action. Next time, the pot smoking repubs (Libertarians), or Natural Law, or Green will get my vote. The republicans? Never. They are 50's style Democrats to me! Audi, I'm gonna go and riot in Specific Whites, I mean Pacific Heights. I'm a mad black man who is tired of the bullshit! what bullshit? I dunno, I'm just tired of it and I need to destroy something. Hey, it's Sf, my white brothers and sisters in arms can join me cuz' we're all in this together...right? Yeah right....It's funny how on election year everyones true colors begin to show. At first it's all peace and love and unity, and respect. Behind that ballot box though everyone's thinking about theirs. When we humans finally destroy each other, an inevitability the way we've been going (I'm suprised we're still here actually), there will only be one thing left. A sign left by a stranger that reads "We coulda been contenders." An epitaph for humans...if we don't start caring about each other. I'm out, John P.S. really this time! ;) > > > P.S. I am done with this tepid discussion. When UC berkeley is 100% > > Asian, I am sure my white brothers and sisters will cry foul. After all, > > based on just teest scores, there are far more Asaians turned away from > > UC than whites...who knows why. > > Quotas were met, perhaps? Voting no on 209 was not an easy decision > for me. I am not white, I do not fit into any of the "popular" ethnic > groups into which college applications ask you to quantize yourself. > Hardworking Asian friends of mine are scared that they may not be > admitted to med school because there are so many qualified Asian males > applying. > > Killing affirmative action may not be the answer, but leaving it as it is > sure as hell isn't, either. > > Sami > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 17:11:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA07957; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:11:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA07940; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:11:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA03585; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:11:00 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199611070111.RAA03585@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: YES ON 209? This is for Starchild et. al. To: khoury@hyperreal.com (Sami Khoury) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:11:00 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Sami Khoury" at Nov 6, 96 11:57:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk OOPS! Sami! I replied to a private post publicy. Please accept my apologies! Sorry my man, sorry! Hey you all, don't read that, it's for Sami....!!! :( (@myself) ) Peace y'all & Sami too :), John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 17:38:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA10327; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:38:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom23.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA10301; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mayer@localhost) by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA21486; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:37:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199611070137.RAA21486@netcom23.netcom.com> To: "KING, JAMES" Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" Subject: Re: public key block In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Nov 96 16:00:00 PST." <199611070004.QAA11356@ssd.loral.com> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 96 17:37:27 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk PGP and "public key block" is software to protect your freedom of speech and rights to privacy on-line. Using my public key, you could encrypt mail sent to me so that nobody else could read it; likewise, i could communicate with you privately if i had your public key... Using a 1024 bit key and 128 bit IDEA cypher, PGP gives you military grade cryptography for free that is already in use in millions of sites worldwide. It would take the FBI/CIA/NSA/corporate-spies/etc about the age of the universe of time on the worlds fastest computers to decode your messages, thereby this system is truly private if you use it correctly, i.e. carefully chosen passphrase, PGP private key kept truly private, no goons start taking whacks at your knees with lead pipes to give up your carefully selected private passphrase, and if no breakthroughs render RSA or IDEA invalid cryptographcally. A good book is Simson Garfinkel's "PGP -- Pretty Good Privacy" by O'Reilley & Associates -- available in most technical book stores. There's much more to it than that, so for more info, Here are some useful links:

Cryptography: PGP, SSL, S-HTTP

Pretty Good Privacy
The Outlaw Press PGP Page
Cryptography [PGP, Zimmerman, Clipper, Privacy, Denning, Government, Big Brother]
Welcome to Crypto-Log: Internet Guide to Cryptography
Crypto-Log: Internet Guide to Cryptography
SSLeay and SSLapps FAQ
The International PGP Home Page
The World-Wide Web Virtual Library: Cryptography, PGP, and Your Privacy
PGP -- Pretty Good Privacy
PGP Digital Timestamping Service
International PGP FAQ
SSL Talk FAQ
Xcert Software -- Sentry Secure Web Sftwr

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 18:00:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA12384; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:00:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom13.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA12375; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:59:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom13.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA08922; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:59:49 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199611070159.RAA08922@netcom13.netcom.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:59:49 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves ] Too much deep stuff on SFRaves lately :-o ! I'm signing off until tomorrow morning! See some of you folks at AUDIO IMPACT tonight. I'll be the 41 year old guy with dark pants and the eyeglass retainers. Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 18:07:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA13373; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA13363; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:07:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (scarab@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA03424; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:07:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:07:23 -0800 (PST) From: KaySEE Reply-To: KaySEE To: knucklehead cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR: Re: YES/NO ON 209? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Tim, Because what you wrote is indicative of the how 209 got passed, I wanted to address your comments. First of all, best qualified(as far as UC admissions go), in my opinion is not necessarily the highest test score. SAT scores have a higher correlation to one's economic status than any other indicator. And the highest economic status in this country is still white. Therefore, whites have the highest test scores. If you have available to you the best education, be it the best public school or private, your scores will be higher. However, diversity in education also plays a role in "qualifications." We are now in a global economy, which is not something that is going to go away. In order to understand our neighbor and compete effectively in this global economy, our education must not exist in a vacuum. By this I mean, we should not be educated with people that are exactly like ourselves. But, if you use highest test scores as the only requisite, you will get that. Affirmative action attempts to address this matter and extend qualifications beyond the highest test scores. It accounts for discrepencies in an individual's life experiences caused by lack of resources. We live in a nation that has citizens that come from almost all other nations in the world. We are the only country like that, a veritable experiment in human culture. We should reap the benefits of such a situation, and in the process we must make-up for our short-comings which include racism. A very common misconception is that affirmative action means less qualified. That is wrong. Everyone who benefits from affirmative action is qualified. Of course, there are your occasional exceptions of people taking advantage of this, but, honestly, this is much more rare than you might believe. The white backlash that has made "preferences" a dirty word, stems from our economic situation. People are worried about job security and want someone to blame it on. Enter your sacrificial lamb: immigrants, minorities, and women. Instead of seeing yourself as possessing an ever-decreasing piece of the pie, look at it from the view that we can all possess a piece of it, not just a few. And, someone is not going to come steal it from you. But, conservatives want you to believe that is true. In that way, they can maintain their position of power. They can get their kids into the *exact* school they want, educate them with people exactly like themselves, do job deals with people exactly like themselves, etc. Guess what? This is the Good Ole Boys Network. The conservatives scream reverse discrimination and upset the people who vote, hold office, and run this country. Let's not let unqualified people in. Read:minorities and women. Guess what? This is how it has always been. Beatrice Potter did ground-breaking research (in the 1800's, I believe) on lichens, but no one would listen to a woman and she was not allowed to present her research. Does that mean she was less qualified? I doubt it, because her research is well-respected today. Blacks were thought to be too ignorant to vote. Does this mean they were less qualified? Every time an election comess along, the voters are deluded by buzzwords and sound bites and selfishness. History seems to be forgotten at every step of the way. But, hey, history is doomed to repeat itself. At its best, affirmative action compensates for one of the greatest disabilities of women and minority group members: their lack of access to institutions and networks of education, finance, training and employment (quoted from Concerned African American Faculty of UC Berkeley). If minorities and women are unqualified as white men happen to see it, why disband affirmative action and lose whatever access they have to success? We all know that public schools are not going to address this problem any time soon. Let me give you an example. I myself, white female, experienced a woefully inadequate education in a tiny rural highschool of Northern California. Although affirmative action didn't affect me directly, there are special considerations given to students from rural high school. When I got to UC Berkeley, I didn't know how to write a thesis statement, what AP tests were, and had to fight just to have physics in high school. My humanities education was lacking and my vocabulary was poor. I ended up doing very well in college, but if it had been by just test scores, I wouldn't have been there. Does this make me less qualified? And I am extemely lucky because both my parents went to college and I knew how important that was. My roomate on the other hand is of mixed ancestry (Croatian and Mexican), whose parents didn't go to college. In college she also found out she had a learning disorder. I imagine that her test scores may have been lower, (I don't know) but she was always on the honor roll and had the requisites to go to the University of California. Does this mean she was unqualified? Prop 209 is a huge deception to Californians. If you voted for it, ask yourself why? Do you honestly believe prop 209 is about discrimination and unfairness towards whites? If it is what does the following mean: "Despite the fact that white men make up only 37 percent of the adult population, they comprise 59% of all chief executives and general administrators, 65% of all physicians, 71% of all lawyers, 85% of all construction supervisors, 80% of tenured professors, and 92% of Congress. Moreover, a National Opinion Research Center survey found that although more than 70% of whites said they were being hurt by affirmative action, only 7% claimed to have experienced any form of reverse discrimination." (Chronicle Editorials 11/5/96) And in the process of disbanding affirmative action, these zealots tout socio-economic requirements to take their place. I ask you, is there anything to account for these factors? They didn't propose anything? Don't you wonder why? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 18:10:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA13853; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:10:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA13824; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from (rlunatic@sjx-ca71-08.ix.netcom.com [207.92.177.72]) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA24505 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:09:32 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:09:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199611070209.SAA24505@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> From: rlunatic@ix.netcom.com (Adam Luong) Subject: Umm... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Umm.. Alot of political talk going on eh? Well.. here's something rave related besides all that voting and politics shit.. Who's going where this weekend? =)~ Adam R.Lunatic From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 18:15:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA14440; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:15:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA14429; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:15:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBCC0E.7771B650@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:15:18 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: Increase Military Spending to Cut the Deficit! Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:03:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Niels Wrote: > I notice you work at Lockheed -- corporate welfare (to companies like > Lockheed/ Martin) for unecessary military expenditures is the largest > drain on our taxes today -- exceeding the amount we spend on WELFARE, > HEALTH, EDUCATION and INFRASTRUCTURE by many orders of magnitude. > (I'm guilty of this as well, as my research is currently funded by ARPA -- > but they chose us to do the work because we can get this non-defense > R&D contract done in 1/10th the time, with 1/10th the expense, and > 1/10th the overhead of a company like Lockheed -- and when we're done, > we're GIVING AWAY the ressults of our work to businesses interested in > productizing internet related collaboration tools). Niels, do you just make this stuff up or what? BTW, Lockheed does lots of commercial work too. I'm working on a digital video system for one of the RBOCs and the IRIDIUM cellular phone satellite system project is in my building...... This is from the Statistical Abstract of the United States: No. 504. Federal Budget--Summary YEAR Receipts Percent Total Human National of Mil Spending Mil Spending YEAR resources defense GDP as % of GDP as % ofBudget ------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- ------------ -------------- 1960 92,492 92,191 26,184 48,130 18.3 9.5 52.2 1965 116,817 118,228 36,576 50,620 17.6 7.5 42.8 1970 192,807 195,649 75,349 81,692 19.9 8.3 41.7 1975 279,090 332,332 173,245 86,509 22.0 5.7 26.0 1980 517,112 590,947 313,374 133,995 22.3 5.1 22.6 1985 734,057 946,391 471,822 252,748 23.9 6.4 26.7 1990 1,031,321 1,252,705 619,327 299,331 22.9 5.4 23.9 1994 1,249,071 1,483,829 879,911 279,824 22.3 4.2% 18.8 ------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- ------------ --------- Source: U.S. Office of Management and Budget, Budget of the United States Government, annual. ------------------------------------------------------------------- --- IF MILITARY SPENDING TODAY REPRESENTED 52.2% OF THE FEDERAL BUDGET (AS IT DID IN 1960) THEN THE FEDERAL BUDGET WOULD BE 489 BILLION INSTEAD OF THE 1.48 TRILLION IT IS ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ----------------------------------- MORAL: DON'T LET FACTS GET IN THE WAY OF YOUR OPINIONS! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ----------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 19:13:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA20268; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:13:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA20262; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:13:12 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA07686; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:13:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:13:01 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: blkadder@value.net To: "John S. Lee" cc: Sami Khoury , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: YES ON 209? This is for Starchild et. al. In-Reply-To: <199611070109.RAA03299@netcom20.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > (And DAMN I thought I was thru ;) ). For centuries white males have had > Affirmative Action. You want a job Mikey, let me make a call. You want > a promotion thomas, why don't you come to our club, it's exclusive you > know. I'm sorry, we had to decline your loan, you live in a high risk > district. I'm sorry , our club has stopped accepting applications at > this time. I'm sorry, the apartment for rent was just rented. Can you give me that phone number John? Seems I have been missing out on something... > Affirmative Action: This is necessary as a measure of restitution for > pattern discrimination. However, why AA has failed has been a mystery. Or one could say more plainly: "Two wrongs make a right." > The other element that will make all of this work is STRICT ENFORCEMENT > OF DISCRIMINATION LAWS. If an employer is found to discriminate against > anyone due to race, etc. The FULL FORCE of the law should be brought > down upon their sinning heads. Also a very stiff mandatory fine should > be levied, AND statutory compensation paid to those affected. All costs > covered by the offending company. Damn right John. Please, let's bring the full force of the law down on anyone that discriminates against *anyone* for reasons of race, etc. > No I'm not...I will not vote for a democrat again. Yeah, yeah, I voted > straight demo, but will not forgive them fro dropping the ball on > Affirmative Action. Next time, the pot smoking repubs (Libertarians), or > Natural Law, or Green will get my vote. The republicans? Never. They > are 50's style Democrats to me! Given the pretty strong stance of the Libretarians against the government offering preferential treatment to any group, I find this hard to believe. > Audi, I'm gonna go and riot in Specific Whites, I mean Pacific Heights. > When we humans finally destroy each other, an inevitability the way we've > been going (I'm suprised we're still here actually), there will only be > one thing left. A sign left by a stranger that reads "We coulda been > contenders." An epitaph for humans...if we don't start caring about each > other. Absolutely correct. Nancy made a good point in the first part of her statement on the subject of 209 when she stated "Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a color-blind... society, but we don't yet." (I am paraphrasing of course.) And as long as we continue to discriminate against one another, we have no hope of achiving that goal. "The state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, or public contracting." I can't think of anything more fair and non-discriminatory than the above. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 19:16:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA20534; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:16:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA20510; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:15:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from 205.184.16.178 (sfo-ca17-18.ix.netcom.com [205.184.16.178]) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA15678 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:15:15 -0800 Message-ID: <3281653D.600D@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 20:27:41 -0800 From: Dan Capriles Reply-To: c9d@ix.netcom.com Organization: Cloud Nine Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: audio impact Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi folks....i'm prob. going to audoi impact tonight and was wondering if anyone else in the city is going. If u are please mail me..for i would like to go with/meet some ppl. thnks, Micron From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 19:32:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA22578; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:32:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA18354; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:51:41 -0800 (PST) From: Derek Chung Message-Id: <199611070251.SAA18354@taz.hyperreal.com> Subject: This Week's SFR Calendar! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (SF Raves) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:51:41 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves-calendar@hyperreal.com (SFR Calendar) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm going to be in London this weekend, so I'll miss these festivities, but I hope to catch others :). Saturday in particular is jam-packed, and then all next week the Recombinant series should be interesting... Keep sending info! (it won't get in right away though, while I'm gone) THE SFR CALENDAR http://www.hyperreal.com/raves/sf/calendar/gencal.cgi _________________________________________________________________ Upcoming Parties in the San Francisco Bay Area Wednesday, November 6th - Hunab Ku & B.A.S.S. Crew presents _Audio Impact_ Jason Mouse (Emocean, Boston), UFO, Flux, Thad, Tomas. free mix tapes for first 30, and other giveaways 9p-3a, All ages, $5. SF. 415.332.5800x247 Friday, November 8th - BiPTuT presents CluB BiPTuT Keith Boynton (Democracy, UK), Dave Lusby (Absolute, UK), DJ Loto (g-nosis, UK), DJ Dennis, Markus (Kickdrum), J.P. (Kickdrum), DJ Rockit, Swing Kid, Brady. $5 before 11pm 9p-6a, 18+, $8. 7042 Folsum Boulevard, Sacramento. 916.321.6841 Saturday, November 9th - One Track Mind presents _That Girl Mona_ An unprecedented night of Chicago Ghetto Trax DJs! DJ Funk, Deeon, Milton, Jon Santos, Warren Parker, Paul Manley, Kit Clayton. 415.208.3418 Saturday, November 9th - Nexus presents 2nd Chakra Simply Jeff, John Debo (FL), VooDoo (New Orleans), Jeno, Garth, Charlotte, Shoam, Boomerang Fidget, Moshe, Pat Allen. 415.273.5350 510.473.4767 916.491.1814 408.537.0126 Saturday, November 9th - Gateway Systems presents _Chrysalis_ Deaks, Greg, Minor Minor, John Carel, Ethan. 11pm-7am, . 415.536.9453 Saturday, November 9th - _2o12_ Dutch, Tom, Jason, Jeremiah. free organic fruit, plus chai by NubChaiCircus $8. 415.525.5o52 Saturday, November 9th - _[future primitive soundsession 2]_ 21st Century Urban Breakbeat Music cut chemist, peanut butter wolf, dj quest, cue, felix the dog, anna, noel vs u.f.o., grey-v. Visuals by UV-99. 9p-3:30a, 21+. 836 Mission St., SF. 415.905.8868 Saturday, November 9th - _Evolution_ A Celebration of Life Dante, Markus Hawkins (electric violin). yoga + barefoot rhythm and movement 8:30p-2a, $6. It's Yoga, 848 Folsom St, SF. 415.908.6717 Saturday, November 9th - Charity presents _Discovery_ a free outdoor gathering noon til evening All ages, Free. san jose. 408.881.0567 Sunday, November 10th - _Dub Mission_ SF's only dub night Sep, Jah Bill, Sep. first Sunday of each month Will be weekly starting in December. 9pm-, 21+, $3. the Elbo Room, 647 Valencia @ 17th, SF. Monday, November 11st - Asphodel Records presents Recombinant The Gardening Club/XLR8R/Black Diamond Darkhorse, Felix the Dog, Charles Edwards, Professor Smith, Jonah Sharp. 10pm-, 21+, $5. 177 Townsend, SF. 415.522.7380 Tuesday, November 12nd - Fathom Records presents Recombinant Dark Tribal Ambient Steve Roach, Robert Rich, Halcyon Days, Kenneth Newby, Recon: Sombient's Storm of Drones, Hans Christian, Insect Funeral. 8pm-, 21+, $8. 177 Townsend, SF. 415.522.7380 Wednesday, November 13rd - electric nerve presents _Temple_ Simon, Tracy, Erik. 9p-2a, All ages, $7. Inn of the Beginning, 8201 Old Redwood Hwy, Cotati. Wednesday, November 13rd - International Turntablist Federation presents Recombinant The Invisible Scratch Pickles (Q-Bert, Shortkut, Mixmaster Mike), The X-Men (Rob Swift, Roc Raider, Mr.Sinister), the Beat Junkies, Stretch Armstrong, Quantyk, Akoustyk, DJ M.Singe, The Bedouin, DJ Spooky, Arto Lindsay, Multipolyomni, MC Verb. 9:30pm-, 21+, $8. 174 King St, SF. 415.522.7380 Thursday, November 14th - Asphodel Records presents Recombinant DJ Spooky that Subliminal Kid, Sub Dub, We, Byzar, Granular Synthesis (Austria), the Invisible Scratch Pickles, The X-Men, Cheb I Sabbah, Steve Roach, guests. 8:30pm-, 21+, $15. 174 King St., SF. 415.522.7380 Friday, November 15th - _Famtasia_ Ethan, John Howard, Jonathan, Sin, Boomerang Fidget, Judge, Rob Doten, Tom, others. Only 200 tix, presale only from Primal Records and Housewares $12. 510.559.2529 Friday, November 15th - _Rise Above It_ Laron, Preston, Chris Lum, Mei-Lwun, Soulstice featuring Jamalski. $10. 150 Folsom St, SF. 415.709.0770 Friday, November 15th - Asphodel Records presents Recombinant DJ Spooky that Subliminal Kid, Sub Dub, We, Byzar, Granular Synthesis (Austria), the Invisible Scratch Pickles, The X-Men, Naut Humon conducts the ISO Orchestra, guests. 8:30pm-, 21+, $15. 174 King St., SF. 415.522.7380 Saturday, November 16th - _BBQ & Beats III_ Alex (Soto), Noah Ruiz, Micron, BioJeff, Tom, Myster-E/Mars. some food will be provided, but you're encouraged to bring some to share 12noon-9pm, All ages, Free. 415.974.4357 Saturday, November 16th - _Rhythm and Sound_ turntablism mixology curious (la), noel, abstract, stareyes, sean andrews. a monthly drum and bass excursion 415.322.5800x247 Saturday, November 23rd - Pro-Soy presents _Wyrd_ Deaks, Maya, drenalin, John Carel, Rich, Sig/Tina, more. 415.635.6815 Friday, November 29th - _Ubiquitous_ Carlos, Simon, Pete Avila, Rick Preston, Ghost, R.K.Tech, Frank Nitty, Pat Allen, Dutch, Spun, Alonso, Larry Live, Friction (TX), Shiloh, Henrik, Jaz. Free. Sacramento. 916.491.1944 415.263.0695 510.806.8588 408.881.0615 Saturday, November 30th - _Tribal Funk 3 year birthday party_ Utopia, Garth, Tony, DJ Dan, Mark Farina, guests. 9pm-7am, . 415.905.4476 Saturday, December 14th - _Candyland_ Simon, Carlos, Ghost, Josh, Liquid, Jazz-e, Kwashi, Spinner, Tripnotix, Jin, Nam. Visuals by L.S.D., Square one. free candy all night Tuesday, December 31st - Cool World presents _Planet New Year Festival '96_ 415.979.4543 408.235.1077 Saturday, January 18th - Ghostribe / U.U.G. presents _Acid Breaks_ Kelly Reverb (Dallas), Donald Glaude, Barry Weaver, Carlos, Ghost, Frank Nitty, Tripnotix, Preston, Moshe, Pat Allen, Boomerang Fidget, Glo Worm. Visuals by L.S.D.. 415.273.1474 _________________________________________________________________ W E E K L I E S House/techno/acid jazz/ambient/etc reg'lar happenins Some of them may have ended - let me know when that happens... Wednesday _ Come/Unity _- House, Techno, Ambient w/DJs Simon, Jeno, Garth. first Wednesday of the month. 10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.241.8815 _Roots_ - House, Dub, Reggae w/DJs Garth, Jeno, guests. Buna & guests in the dub reggae room 10pm-4am, 21+, $6. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.512.5713 _The Lounge_ - 9pm-3am, 21+. 1401 Arden Way, Sacramento. 916.922.8041x4240 _Wish_ - techno, house w/DJs guests weekly. Lighting by EyeTribe 18+. Bahia, 1600 Market St, SF. 415.436.0663 Boogie Bowl - house, techno w/DJs John Howard, Sean Murray, Dave, guests. admission includes bowling and pool. 10pmm-3am, $8. Country Club Bowl, 88 Vivian Way @ E.Francisco, San Rafael. 415.679.3113 _Groove_ - techno w/DJs Dreamer, Carlos, special guests. 10pm-?, $5. 415.437.6905 _Step Off_ - acid jazz, trip hop w/DJs Mark Farina, Miquel, Julius Papp. 21+. the EndUp, 6th & Harrison, SF. _phresh_ - house w/DJs Jay-J, friends. 10p-2a, 21+, Free. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF. Thursday Lift - House, Funk w/DJs David Harness, Ruben Mancias, Jay-J, Black, guests. 12mid-5:30am, 21+, $5. 55 Natoma, SF. 415.267.5984 Velvet Shop - House, Techno. 21+, $5. 14 S Second @ Santa Clara, SJ. 408.235.1556 Full House - Acid Jazz, House w/DJs Finn, Matt Bernsen, Andrew Rawnsley, Bruno Ybarra, guests, live musicians. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. Miss Pearl's Jam House, Eddy & Larkin, SF. _Le Jazz Hot!_ - future sounds for jazz heads w/DJs Andrew Jervis, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. Nickies BBQ, 460 Haight, SF. 415.621.6508 _Real_ - house, techno. every first Thursday of the month 9pm-2am, 18+, $7. Pantages Theater, 1225 K St Mall, Sacramento. 916.565.9588 ThurZdaze - bringing you the true frisco groove w/DJs DJ Dan, Donald Glaude, guests. 415.605.1915 510.726.5947 _soulvation_ - acid jazz, hiphop w/DJs Roman, George, Aural B, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+. elbo room, 647 Valencia, SF. 415.522.2946 Funktion - house, dub w/DJs guest DJs weekly. free before 10pm 9pm-2am, $5. Maritime Hall, 1st & Harrison, SF. 415.273.5308 _Half & Half_ - house w/DJs Frankie T., Jeff. the Agenda cellar, 399 S First St., San Jose. _Rhythm_ - house, techno w/DJs Derek, Toby, Daniel, Joe Brown, Stevian, Mark Willson, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. Club Phoenix, 325 S.First St, San Jose. 408.987.9193 _Sexy T.K.O._ - abstract drum and bass w/DJs Sonic Pioneer, Starsky, eclectic guests. 10pm-, 21+, $4. 111 Minna St, SF. [11.6 - reopening party] _Apollo_ - house w/DJs Pete Avila, Jay-R, guests. free before 10:30 w/flyer 9:30p-, 21+, $3. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.905.4209 _ikon massive_ - a showcase of all that encompasses electronic musiq w/DJs Miquel, Laron, Gabe Real, Abstract, Mike B., dvw (mental souljah), demetras/soper. begins 11.21.96 21+. 330 Ritch St, SF. 415.709.1241 The Electronicool Happy Hour - Future sounds and phasing light images craMMed into the Happy Hour tradition. w/DJs Spesh. Visuals by Kevin Berne.5pm-9pm, Free. 111 Minna Street, SF. _Phonixs_ - "sounds never seen" w/DJs Marcus, Chris OST. every other Thursday 21+, $2. the Top, 424 Haight, SF. [11.7 - Joe Rice, Tomas] [11.21 - Jonah Sharp] Friday _ Sound Factory _- House w/DJs Pete Avila, David Harness, guests. 9:30pm-7am, 21+, $10. Sound Factory, 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF. 415.543.1300 _Soul'd Out_ - spinnin' the hard and soul of house w/DJs Julius Papp, Rick Preston, guests. free before 10:30 9pm-, 21+, $5. Hi Fi Lounge, 14 S 2nd St @ Santa Clara, San Jose. _Liquid Fridays_ - House w/DJs various DJs. 10pm-2am, 18+, Free. 2721 Broadway, Sacramento., Sacramento. 916.484.4285 _Nikita_ - house, techno w/DJs Jeno, Simon, Henrik. November guests include Danny Rampling, Scott Henry and Keoki 10pm-6am, 21+, $10. 1015 Folsom St, SF. 415.267.0568 _Beats_ - house, breakbeat, trance w/DJs Carlos Campos, Karizma, weekly guests. 7042 Folsom Blvd between Howe and 65th, Sacramento. 415.273.1345 916.558.0850 _the atomic cafe_ - acid jazz, trip hop, house w/DJs Finn, Matty B, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $5. Voodoo, Eddy & Larkin, SF. 415.267.4822 OM lounge - trip-hop, house, acid jazz w/DJs Is, guest DJs weekly. 9pm-2am, 21+, $1. Minna Street Gallery, 111 Minna St, SF. _Blueprint_ - Space Age Pop Meets the Abstract Sound of Drum and Bass w/DJs Sonic Pioneer, Bald Elvis, Starsky. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. 579 Howard St, SF. Saturday _Other Whirled_ - House, Techno w/DJs Warren, Nobel, Jason Cassady, Nikki Rivera, guests. saturday morning 6am-, 21+. 201 9th @ Howard, SF. _Sound Factory _- big club sounds 9:30pm-4am, 21+. Sound Factory, 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF. 415.543.1300 _Release _- Acid Jazz, Funk, Reggae, House w/DJs Jerry Ross, Josh, Mr. Sulu, Randy Wong. 21+. 1015 Folsom, , SF. 415.337.7457 _Vanilla Fudge _- House w/DJs Corey Black, Sunshine, Moonbeam, Jason, Big Lee, Darren. occasional saturday nights. 10pm-2am, Free. Cafe Bastille, 55 Belden Alley, SF. 415.764.2903 _Metro Jazz _- Acid Jazz w/DJs Ruben Mancias, Mauricio Avilas, Tom Thump, Franky, guests. 10pm-, 21+, $7. 1190 Folsom @ 8th, SF. 415.597.1010 [11.9 - DJ Is, Consuelo Kevin] [11.16 - John Howard, Roman] [11.23 - Jay-J, Alex] _Loveworks_ - house w/DJs Dani, Pete Avila, Neon Leon, guests. 9pm-infinity, . 111 Minna St, SF. 415.646.0744 _hedquarters_ - downbeat adventures w/DJs Tomas, Markus, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $5. Voodoo, 601 Eddy between Polk & Larkin, SF. 415.974.4358 _Sugah_ - house, jazz, soul w/DJs Jay-J, Kwai, Julius Papp, guests, live performers. free b4 10:30pm 9pm-2am, 21+, $5. the Hi-Fi Lounge, 14 S 2nd St, San Jose. 408.282.HIFI _Massa_ - Trip hop, trance hall dub w/DJs Spun, Markie, inna city, guests. 11pm-5am, 21+, $8. Caribbean Zone, 55 Natoma St, SF. _Club 1251_ - house w/DJs Dave Alga. $5 for 21+ 16-17 year olds can only stay till midnight 8:30p-2:30a, 16+, $8. 1251 Arroyo Way, Walnut Creek. 510.977.8656 Sunday _ Spundae _- House, Techno w/DJs Henrik, Carlos, Miquel, weekly guests. free b4 10:30p includes tecknotica (deep inside Spundae) 10pm-5:30am, 21+, $5. 55 Natoma St., SF. 415.974.9389 _Leopard Lounge_ - Acid Jazz, Funk & Live Bands. w/DJs Suiki, Jay-J, Anthony, Julius Papp, Mark Farina, guests. 2125 Lombard @ Fillmore, SF. 415.771.2583 _Pleasuredome_ - House w/DJs Neil Lewis, guests. 21+, $8. 177 Townsend, SF. 415.985.5256 Quench - House, techno w/DJs Spun, Ryan Tapia, guests. 21+. Hi-Fi Lounge, 14 S 2nd @ Santa Clara, San Jose. 408.282.HIFI _Sunday Roast_ - techno? w/DJs guest DJs weekly. 9pm-2am, . Mick's Lounge, 2513 Van Ness, SF. 415.928.0404 _Irtu_ - acid jazz, funk, rare groove w/DJs Tom Thump, guests. live entertainment weekly 9pm-2am, . 685 Sutter @ Taylor, SF. 415.270.3183 _Return_ - house, trip hop w/DJs Jeff, Tracy, Grey-V, guests. the Usual, 400 S First St, San Jose. 408.535.0330 _Sessions_ - Deep sounds for your Sunday afternoons w/DJs Jaz, Steve, guests. starts Nov.10, then every other Sunday afternoon 21+, Free. the Hi-Fi Lounge, 14 S 2nd @ Santa Clara, San Jose. 408.282.HIFI Monday _Noc Noc_ - techno/ambient/jungle w/DJs Mohsen. 21+, Free. 557 Haight St., SF. _Tongue n' Groove _- trip hop, jungle, acid jazz w/DJs Felix the Dog, Darkhorse, Thomas, Tom Thump, Pollywog, Laron, Anna, guests. 10pm-4am, 21+, $5. Cat's Grill & Alley, 1190 Folsom @ 8th, SF. 415.431.3332 _rotation_ - jazz, hiphop, soul, acid jazz, funk w/DJs racer x, yamu, stef, rasta cue-tip, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+. up & down club, 1151 Folsom St, SF. _mad_ - trance, electro, old school, minimal, hard, detroit, acid w/DJs Alex, Joe Rice, Monty, Sho, guests. 2$ before 11pm 10pm-2am, 18+, $3. Bahia Cabana, 1600 Market St, SF. _The Deep End_ - Experimental ambient lounge w/DJs Leath, Eric Exstacy, guests. 9pm-2am, . the Hi-Fi Lounge, 14 S 2nd Street, San Jose. 408.282.HIFI _Monday Night Dinner_ - a haphazard collection of ravers who get together weekly to properly wind down their weekend or rev their engines for the coming week. a different cuisine each week, usually in SF. info on SFRaves or here (when available) after-party at Mad 8:30p-All ages. Tuesday Breathe Deep - House w/DJs Jay-J, Ruben, Miquel, guests. 10pm-4am, 21+, $5. 1015 Folsom., SF. 415.998.9515 _Succotash!_ - tasty jazz - funk - beats - space w/DJs tom thump, rasta q-tip. 21+, Free. up & down club, 1151 folsom st., SF. _supper_ - funk, acid jazz w/DJs Caspar, guests. 21+, Free. Julie's Supper Club, 1123 Folsom @ 7th, SF. 415.861.0707 _Lost in Space_ - house, hip-hop w/DJs Pause, Dark Money, Winnie B, Eric Lacy. 21+, Free. Cafe Mars, 798 Brannan @ 7th, SF. _Eclectic_ - house, jungle, drum & bass w/DJs Yamu, Siege, Franko, Foster, guests. Fresh fruit & condoms to all 9pm-2am, 21+. Paradise Bar & Grill, 5356 College Ave, Oakland. _The Deep_ - house, techno. 9pm-2am, . Palookaville, 1133 Pacific Ave, Santa Cruz?. 408.425.3316 _Speakeasy_ - Good Music. Deep House to Jungle w/DJs Shannon, Mauricio, guests. every other Tuesday 9pm-2am, $2. Coco Club, 139 8th St, SF. _Syncopic_ - Psychostoneyrollerbeats w/DJs Arkay, guests. happens on the 2nd & 4th Tuesday of each month 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. the Top, 424 Haight St, SF. [11.12 - Charlie Edwards] [11.26 - beatjakr] _Plush_ - house, jungle, trance, ambient w/DJs guest DJs weekly. 9:30p-2a, 21+, $3. 2708 J St, Sacramento. 916.484.4285 _________________________________________________________________ Info Lines * Be-At Info Line - 415-626-4087. Usually has 5-10 listings, updated daily. * the Buzz-line, a global party network - 415.568.1338 * Clubline - 415.979.8686 * Fatline - 415.207.3668 * Frequency 8 Trance/Techno infoline - 415.541.5019 * The Groove Line - (415) 331.1500 ext.4788 * Housewares Rave Line - 415.281.0125 _________________________________________________________________ Radio/TV Shows * Sunday morning 9am-11am - "Underbrush" w/DJ Radon - Beats, Breakz and Buzz KZSU 90.1 (Stanford). * Sunday night 11pm-2am - "The Dreaming/Innermind Show" w/DJ Miracle & Mr. Monchichi. House, Jungle, Trip-Hop, Ambient, Dub, Break-Beats & guest DJs. KSCU 103.3 (Santa Clara) * Monday afternoon 12:30-3:00 pm - DJ Jerecho presents the best of the urban polyrhythmic experience jungle, acid jazz, techno, electro, breakbeat KDVS, 90.3 FM (Davis) * Tuesday night 9pm-mid - "An Epiphany of Sound" hosted by J.C. and Monkeywrench. Varied techno sub-genres, noise, spoken word, world music. KZSU 90.1 (Stanford) * Wednesday night 9pm-11pm - free form music mix. KPFA 94.1 (Berkeley) * Friday 3pm-6pm - free form music mix. KUSF 90.3 (SF) (also available on Realaudio * Fridays 9pm-midnight - Andrew from Groove Merchant spins on KUSF 90.3 (SF) * Friday night/Saturday morning - midnight-noon. House/techno mix with Johnny K, Ozone & guests - KCSS 91.9 Central Valley (Turlock) * Friday night/Saturday morning - "Just Desserts" w/Mr.Goodwrench - 10pm-2am Jungle, Detroit, Techno, Acid House, whacked-out Dub, and noise KFJC 89.7 - Los Altos Hills * Friday night - nocturnal transmissions - featuring house DJs from SF and around the world. mid-2am, 107.7 FM (SF) * Friday night - Your Mama's House w/Pete Avila - 3am-5am, 106.1 KMEL. * Friday night - Moondance. Ambient; 3am-7:30am, KUSF 90.3 SF. * Friday night/Saturday morning - the Uncle Noah TV Show - the best in Techno and House music. 3-5am, KDVS 90.3fm (Davis) * Saturday afternoon - "Bus Stop" - music and talk w/guest DJs from SF and beyond. 2pm-3pm. KUSF 90.3 SF. * Saturday, 4pm-6pm - "Aural Fixation" w/Ted Vadakan. experimental ambient, trip hop, jungle musicality. KZSC 88.1 fm (Santa Cruz) * Saturday night 11pm - Flux Television, Viacom Channel 53 - Ambient, acid jazz and house music videos & interviews. (415) 281-3377. flux@flux.net * (every other) Saturday night 10p-12:30a - "1984" w/DJ Richtoffen. House, Trance and German rave. 90.1 (Chico) * Ambiance Magazine - 9:30p weds-sun PNC Cable 2 (Modesto & Oakdale), 9p fri & sat, marcus cable ch 9 (ceres & turlock). _________________________________________________________________ For a _search_ interface to the calendar, see the Late Train club section (http://www.latetrain.com/clubs/). _________________________________________________________________ Administrative Notes If anyone has info on any other events, send it to me! I can't possibly hope to get all the info every week. This info gets sent via email every Thursday. To subscribe or unsubscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to majordomo@hyperreal.com with either the line subscribe sfraves-calendar or unsubscribe sfraves-calendar There is also an sfraves discussion mailing list for issues related to clubs, parties, house and techno music, etc. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@hyperreal.com with the line subscribe sfraves in the body of the message. Derek Chung - dhchung@hyperreal.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 19:44:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA23597; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:44:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from kzsu.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA23560; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:43:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dougm@localhost) by kzsu.Stanford.EDU (8.7.3/8.6.9) id TAA24305 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:43:53 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Miller (J.C.) Message-Id: <199611070343.TAA24305@kzsu.Stanford.EDU> Subject: NRR: Re: Hail Clintonius! Taxus Maximus To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:43:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Thompson. Jim" at Nov 6, 96 10:26:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > >Even more pathetic is the passage of prop 218, which is the "son of > >prop 13" -- this prop. is going to further reduce the funds available > >for schools and local services, but the language of the prop is so > >obfuscated that you won't kow this at first glance. I guess that's ok > > Further reduce funds for schools? Are you aware that > per pupil funding, IN CONSTANT DOLLARS, has more > than doubled in the last 25 years? That the top 10% of > income earners ALREADY pay almost TWO-THIRDS > of all the income taxes? > > Is it fair in a democracy that 1/3 of the population pays 90% > of the taxes? That the bottom 2/3 can keep voting to raise > the taxes on the top 1/3? Care to point me in the direction of where you gathered this data? (And, no, Rush's web page doesn't count. :-) ) (I couldn't locate data supporting these claims on www.census.gov, that's why I ask.) > > We're already working 2 days out of EACH WEEK for the > government, and its still not enough!! > > > jim thompson - CUBE ROOT FACT AXON INFO GRID DATA FATE > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 19:58:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA24906; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:58:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA24896; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:58:45 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA10635; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:58:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:58:40 -0800 (PST) To: KaySEE cc: knucklehead , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: Re: YES/NO ON 209? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, KaySEE wrote: > We are now in a global economy, which is not something that is going to go > away. In order to understand our neighbor and compete effectively in this > global economy, our education must not exist in a vacuum. By this I mean, > we should not be educated with people that are exactly like ourselves. > But, if you use highest test scores as the only requisite, you will get > that. Affirmative action attempts to address this matter and extend > qualifications beyond the highest test scores. It accounts for > discrepencies in an individual's life experiences caused by lack of > resources. No, it accounts for discrepencies in *certain* individual's life experience. Those certain individual being determined by their race or sex, and not by the real or imagined discrepency in their lives. > We live in a nation that has citizens that come from almost > all other nations in the world. We are the only country like that, a > veritable experiment in human culture. We should reap the benefits of > such a situation, and in the process we must make-up for our short-comings > which include racism. Perhaps you were or are a racist, and need to redress your sins, however I am not, nor have ever been to the best of my knowledge. Why attempt to hold *me* accountable for actions which I condemn and have had nothing to do with? > A very common misconception is that affirmative action > means less qualified. That is wrong. Everyone who benefits from > affirmative action is qualified. Of course, there are your occasional > exceptions of people taking advantage of this, but, honestly, this is much > more rare than you might believe. Again, you are incorrect. I have given specific examples of this. Persons seeking employment for the Dept. of Corrections are given extra points on tests if they are of specific national origin. It should be obvious that this can result in the selection of less qualified canidates for a given position. I also remember a similar situation with persons seeking employment with the U.S. Postal service, however I am not positive(I took the test several years ago.) > The white backlash that has made "preferences" a dirty word, stems from > our economic situation. Preference is merely another word for discrimination. And yes discrimination is a dirty word in my book. > People are worried about job security and want > someone to blame it on. Enter your sacrificial lamb: immigrants, > minorities, and women. "People?" Which people? Let's be clear about this, shall we? In a society where there are more women than men? In a society where "minority" groups outnumber whites? > Instead of seeing yourself as possessing an > ever-decreasing piece of the pie, look at it from the view that we can all > possess a piece of it, not just a few. And, someone is not going to come > steal it from you. But, conservatives want you to believe that is true. > In that way, they can maintain their position of power. They can get > their kids into the *exact* school they want, educate them with > people exactly like themselves, do job deals with people exactly like > themselves, etc. Guess what? This is the Good Ole Boys Network. Whenever I see the words "the liberal press" I always chuckle to myself, thinking of the Rush Limbaugh fans, praying to the altar of Rush. Whenever I see "the conservatives want you to think..." I get the same chuckle. Given a lack of specifics, you choose to make abstractions, condeming all "conservatives" as thinking a specific way. Let me personalize it for you: I voted for 209. I am not stupid, have not been brainwashed by the "conservatives." I do not have a position of power, nor am I the member of any "Good 'ol Boys Network"(although I hear they get great health club discounts). Are you saying that I am a racist because I do not agree with you? > The conservatives scream reverse discrimination and upset the people who > vote, hold office, and run this country. Let's not let unqualified people As someone else so eloquently pointed out: There is no such thing as "reverse" discrimination. Just discrimination, plain and simple. > At its best, affirmative action compensates for one of the greatest > disabilities of women and minority group members: their lack of access to > institutions and networks of education, finance, training and employment > (quoted from Concerned African American Faculty of UC Berkeley). If > minorities and women are unqualified as white men happen to see it, why > disband affirmative action and lose whatever access they have to success? > We all know that public schools are not going to address this problem any > time soon. You are sterotyping. And as I have said to others before, this makes you little better than a bigot. You are no different than those you decry. > Prop 209 is a huge deception to Californians. If you voted for it, ask > yourself why? Do you honestly believe prop 209 is about discrimination > and unfairness towards whites? No, it about discrimination and unfairness to *ANY* group, on the basis of their color, sex, etc. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 20:08:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA25954; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA25885; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:07:41 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA11267; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:07:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:07:36 -0800 (PST) To: George Jimenez cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Re. Knucklehead's Input In-Reply-To: <3281333A.6871@mail.wrs.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, George Jimenez wrote: > DECREASES. I received my bachelor's degree in two majors and was > allowed the opportunity to prove myself worthy and able at one of the > finest institutions in the world...and not only do I thank God, I also > thank the the systems and programs which gave me that opportunity. It's > such a pity they will now be abolished by 209 for without them, future > generations of minorities will never get the decent opporunity I had. Well theoretically, you will receive the same opportunity as everyone else. How unfair, huh? However, I think it is fair to say that implementation of 209 will be held up or blocked indefinetly. And least the opponents of 209 gloat, think about this for a minute: The majority of the people have spoken. And their voices will go unheard, ignored, or shouted down. Does this bode well for the "democracy" we purport to live in? Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 20:18:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA27004; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:18:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom10.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA26984; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:18:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom10.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id UAA26385; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:17:49 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:17:49 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Systematic Racism...this happens everyday! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Here is a more comprehensive doc about what happened @ Texaco. Also: Many of you cited specific incidents where whites were turned away in favor of others. What has not been established is their qualifications. Anyway, just turning someone away because they are white is NOT Affirmative Action. Affirmative Action is a process by which a qualified, not QUALIFIED minority is hired in a job in leiu of a white candidate IF the minority is a) underrepresented, and b) the job/title/institution has a history of discriminative practices. AA is NOT quotas so... Here's what happened at Texaco folx. Oh yeah...I know I talk alot about the black white thang. You meet me, and you'll find I'm fairly color blind. I say fairly because I am keenly aware I am an African-American. For all you hyphen haters, I just wanted to let you know I will drop the hyphen when I'm treated like I am a citizen, I count, AND I belong here. Until then, I am an African-American (with a wonderfully Multi-Racial, Multi-Cultural son...that kid is the MACK!). In the end, to me, people are just people. We all bleed red. Peace out & live w/o fear, John P.S. Someone cited how intimidated they felt when some black youths harassed them. Back home (the south) when the roles are , reversed, it usually ended up with a lynching. As somneone who is white, you have LESS to fear from black crime than you do from your own racil group. And I would also like to say that the MAJORITY of hate crimes to date have been whites against a minority. These stats are in the Hate Crime Stats of '95, FYI. Besides, African-Americans are and have been very busy with genocide against our own for centuries. I have more to fear from my people than you do, so RELAX and stop looking over your shoulder for the boogey man. Hell, if anything happens from anyone, that person will, no doubt, probably look like you. Now for the story.... -------- Monday November 4 4:48 PM EST Texaco Execs Planned to Destroy Evidence, Tapes NEW YORK (Reuter) - Secret tapes of Texaco, Inc. executives show they discussed destroying key evidence in a discrimination lawsuit and disparaged minority workers as "niggers" and "black jelly beans," a lawyer in the case alleged Monday. Daniel Berger, who represents black employees suing Texaco, said he has asked a White Plains, N.Y., federal court to sanction the company because of the officials' plans to destroy evidence. Excerpts from tapes of the executives' meetings were included in court papers seeking sanctions. "What we put in our papers is extremely damning because they discussed purging their files, shredding documents and concealing information," said Berger, a partner at Bernstein Litowitz Berger & Grossmann. Berger's motion alleges that senior officers destroyed or withheld documents after one executive specificially identified them at his deposition on Aug. 5, 1994, and after the plaintiffs had requested them. He said lawyers at his firm were shocked when they received the tapes from the former executive who had identified the documents and secretly recorded the meetings. "Our jaws dropped. They are still on the floor," Berger told Reuters. "I've been practicing law for 17 years and I've never come across anything like this." The tapes were turned over as part of the legal proceedings in the suit that was filed in 1994 by six blacks who alleged that Texaco had been systematically discriminating against them in promoonad fotrng hostie eiromet snc a lest ely 91. Smlantffs alege tat blck emoyeesatth compay have been called "orangutans" and "porch monkey." U.S. District Judge Charles Brieant ha ak te Eua Emloyentpportunityommisson toinesigate healegaion and ealir ti yar theEEOCisuda ndngtaTexacoha iedtpomoe ack emplyee bause of tirrac. The plintifs ae ake te curt classatin orpresn the se ,400miity mployee t heompany A hearig o the ertificain su i expeted necbr.Texc aid t had ead abou the tps ast wean ad ired outside cousl, Mihae Armstog ofKkptrickan Locar, oonduc ineenent investigtion. If the conut isdeploabe nd wlnever betolerae byTexaco" the omaysad a stment Berger would noomentn whtherer er ayttlement gotaion under wawih the ol mpay Te tpeswreturned v t Berge's ir b RihadLdwll,wo wa the enor coorinaorf esnnel srvcsnxaco'sfincaid he hadben ermate by xaco efctive Au 31 Accoringtoout paprs,Lundwll wsresposiblefo keeping muteamtns of he mstsenorFinane Departmet officertisss "th deveomt o woenandminities ithintedeprtmnt" Hsad hthe adecet tap th sesnst ensue he crcof ih th lantifs ad requeed as ar fthr dicrimintion suit. Lndwatldteayes tne of t rans fo meeng ws "id" dcuen r e lantfs Exept oth apsctaine i cu pper qtexeutve iluin uwall d obet rich,thcopa's reasurr til ee boks,Uihisuoeds ayng Bothlrc nduwallefer o ranAmeic emoys as "lack jllybans" d lrih, using epltiesalso uss e or"igrs." Te e uoedompaining ow t copan h adtoadstodemandy minoitis.Tedisus howsoel myees ere intretdin Kwzaable wi Hanukh, said lrch. "N w hv waza" Tacs tc losda$9.2 dwn 2125 theNe YrktckExane. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 22:09:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA08209; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:09:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout02.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id WAA08201; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:09:06 -0800 (PST) From: Anthonymad@aol.com Received: by emout02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA12628 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:08:25 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:08:25 -0500 Message-ID: <961107010823_1781420598@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Jondabomb@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: (NRR)Positive healing energy/ fractal harmonics Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk John, POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! POSITIVE ENERGY! Your Friend, Antone! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 22:36:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA09927; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:36:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id WAA09883; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:35:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp016-sf1.sirius.com [205.134.227.16]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id WAA11341 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:34:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:34:36 -0800 Message-Id: <199611070634.WAA11341@mail1.sirius.com> X-Sender: kerryl@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Kerry Levenberg Subject: When/where Robert Hood from Detroit? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone know where Robert Hood is spinning this weekend (and when)? Many tankoos. Kerry From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 23:22:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA13272; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:22:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA13264; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from well.com (phred@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.6/8.7.5) with ESMTP id XAA29189; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:22:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA04447; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:22:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9611062322.ZM4445@well.com> Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:22:22 -0800 In-Reply-To: Derek Chung "This Week's SFR Calendar!" (Nov 6, 6:51pm) References: <199611070251.SAA18354@taz.hyperreal.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: Derek Chung , sfraves@hyperreal.com (SF Raves) Subject: Re: This Week's SFR Calendar! Cc: sfraves-calendar@hyperreal.com (SFR Calendar) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I would have to say the New Year Cool World flyer (er, magazine insert) is the most atrocious thing since . . . LAST year's Cool World New Year's flyer/thingie! (Already found my first example as trash littering the corner of Haight & Divis on Monday) . . . phred From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 23:22:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA13333; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from priscilla.ultima.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA13320; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:22:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from priscilla.ultima.org (audiotek@priscilla.ultima.org [140.174.184.225]) by priscilla.ultima.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA14162; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:22:01 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:22:00 -0800 (PST) From: Monty To: Kerry Levenberg cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: When/where Robert Hood from Detroit? In-Reply-To: <199611070634.WAA11341@mail1.sirius.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk It's my understanding that he's spinning in LA this weekend. --Monty On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Kerry Levenberg wrote: > Does anyone know where Robert Hood is spinning this weekend (and when)? > > Many tankoos. > Kerry > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 23:29:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA13778; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:29:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA13768; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:29:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp104-sf1.sirius.com [205.134.227.104]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id XAA13167 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:27:54 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:27:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199611070727.XAA13167@mail1.sirius.com> X-Sender: kerryl@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Kerry Levenberg Subject: NRR- Re: Hail Clintonius! Taxus Maximus! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 10:26 AM 11/6/96 -0800, you wrote: >> Further reduce funds for schools? Are you aware that > per pupil funding, IN CONSTANT DOLLARS, has more > than doubled in the last 25 years? That the top 10% of > income earners ALREADY pay almost TWO-THIRDS > of all the income taxes? > > Is it fair in a democracy that 1/3 of the population pays 90% > of the taxes? That the bottom 2/3 can keep voting to raise > the taxes on the top 1/3? > Um, the top 10% of the population has 90% of the wealth, but only pays 67% of the taxes. The top 1% has 40% of the wealth. Tell us some more about fairness, please. Peace for the post-election dance floor, Kerry From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Nov 6 23:31:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA13965; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:31:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA13959; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 23:31:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from 13474597.mcoe.k12.ca.us (ts1-slns-ppp09.salinas.net [205.179.129.39]) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA06435; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:50:38 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 22:50:38 -0800 Message-Id: <199611070650.WAA06435@lettuce.salinas.net> X-Sender: silver@salinas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: blkadder@value.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" Subject: RE: 209--The Best Halloween Costume (long) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 07:13 PM 11/6/96 -0800, blkadder@value.net wrote: te: > > >"The state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment >to, any individual or group on the basis of race sex, color, ethnicity, or >national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, >or public contracting." > >I can't think of anything more fair and non-discriminatory than the above. > > Black Adder > >........................................................................... ......... I think a lot of well meaning people, people with compassion, people with convictions, or people who thought they were doing the right thing, voted for 209. I am surprized that more people didn't recognize 209 as Prop 187 in drag????? Who could disagree with the statement that the "state shall not discriminate?" And gee, you shouldn't beat your wife either!!! Or, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all!!! Prop 209 was written as advertising and marketing, not constitutional law. However, does anyone think their vote will be used to really end discrimination?? Do you think you have somehow voted to strike a high-minded blow against inequality and end unfair admission and hiring practices??? Guess what...TODAY..209 will not stop state schools from continuing to give sports scholarships to unqualified men and women athletes who do not have the same grades as an average student. In many cases, those "students" will not have the grades to even get in, let alone compete "fairly." Today...209 will not stop the music scholarships which are given to the marching band students who play for the unqualified athletes who get in first. The sports and band programs are affirmative action programs that give first preferences to some and not others. 209 will not stop this practice tomorrow either. 209 will stop the few crumbs or the admission "lottery" which afffirmative action gives to the poor, or members of the underlass. 209 will not stop the Regents and other state politicians from pulling strings to get the children of powerful or monied parents in--about 3% of the admissions. This is another affirmative action program which 209 will not stop. Even schools like Stanford which benefits from public tax money for research grants, etc. gives legacy preferences to the children of graduates, up to 20% of the freshmen class. I just had a white student, whose father was a Stanford graduate, get in, and 10 other students who applied did not...and they had the same or if not better grades, sat's and they were in some cases minorities..The one minority student had BETTER grades and didn't get in.... ..If you think 209 will do ANYTHING to change the LEGACY affirmative action program for the children of graduates...leave cookies and milk out for Santa Clause this Christmas. Affirmative action was a bone that they used to throw to the few students who managed to survive the unequal schools or families they managed to graduate from. The admissions boards rank the high schools that students graduate from, so that a student who graduates from a high school in Palo Alto is given a preference over the student who graduates from a high school in east LA.. 209 does nothing to end that preference. This system is not fair, its economic predestination. Yes, those students from Palo Alto will be "better" qualified, but is it fair???? But people who believe in 209 think we should line up all the students after they have been through an unfair system and say it is "fair" to judge them all the same. This year, 50% of the students who were admitted to Berkeley, came from families who earned more than $80,000 per year. You want to compare the schools those students graduated from with the students who were granted affirmative action admission??? 209 doesn't or won't recognize these obvious and the ugly little hobgoblins. The truth is, that 209 was this year's best Halloween costume. If you put this costume on, then put on the face mask of Pete Wilson, the Newt, Bob Dole and Jesse Helms. If you think these guys, and the Republicans who floated this propostion (it was authored by the party, the same party who brought you 187) because they are committed to righting a great social evil........just look how Jesse Helms played the race card in South Carolina with the same "white" wing social agenda. 209 was a tool of power, money and politics, certainly nothing pretending to be an Emancipation Proclamination for poor white folk. When Pete Wilson was behind he played the 187 race card when he was behind, and then won. Jesse Helms won by and even larger percentage this time using the "affirmative action" race card. It's proving to be an effective wedge issue in political campaigns, and now that it is a proven winner in California and South Carolina, you'll see it again, and again. By playing this political game from either the left or the right, you got suckered. If you voted for 209 you squashed a bug and left Godzilla alone. But, if you call the people who voted for 209 rascists, you also play into the hands of the republicans who are just as happy to have this issue be divisive and polarizing in an election. If the republicans really cared about preferences in admissions or hiring, they wouldn't have attacked it at the tail-end, or after the damage of unequal educational programs or opportunity has been done. The unequal funding of public schools based on property taxes, insures that the rich keep getting the best education, and the best opportunites, and the best chance at getting into the best schools. If you've got enough money, you can go to the best private school which virtually guarantees entrance into the best schools. PERIOD. It's the best affirmative action program in existence. Good education, good Colleges equal good jobs. And that's what everyone is fighting about..... 209 does NOTHING to correct this evil, which dwarfs the evils which 209 pretends to correct. But, don't get me wrong, I don't think that AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, as a program of race based quotas, and preferences is the answer. >From the general tenor of the debate so far, it's easy to see that being for 209 or against 209 simply continues to foment rascism from both sides. Affirmative action should be based on need, not race. Anything based on race, will continue to create rascism. If Pete Wilson, and the republicans who floated this stalking horse really cared about correcting anything, or making anything fair in admissions or hiring.. ...Prop 209.....would have been a proposition which said..... "The State shall fund all of its school equally, and give each student the same or equal amount which is used to house, detain, educate, and prosecute, etc. each prisoner currently in the California state prison system." Now, I don't expect to see this proposition on the ballot next election, cause most people are going to be too busing fighting rascism, discrimination, and preferences from the left and from the right, to bother to address the real problem...... So, Yes...Black Adder...I CAN think or something more fair than Proposition 209. I say this as from someone who has taught in private schools, public schools and junior college for the past twenty years.....just my 2 cents. ....But, .......I think we all got spooked this Halloween. ] ...........SpinSilver Oh yeah, so this is rave related...I like to spin records and hope to see ya all at the BBQ III.... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >..........."And remember you're unique......just like everybody else." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 00:27:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA17599; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:27:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA17594; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:27:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id AAA02750; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:27:47 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: star owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:27:47 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: Andy Wyszkowski cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: 215 Rant (NRR) In-Reply-To: <9610058472.AA847245773@smtplink.acer.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear Andy & SFRavefriends, Excellent message, and I concur, except to say that I would rather focus on relegalizing banned substances than on arguing tactics with those who feel as I do. The *worst* thing we could do would be to let the success of the medical marijuana movement destroy the unity of the community that realizes the final goal is freedom for all of us. In conclusion, I hope those of us who still lack the freedom to toke try not to screw up the chances of those who are now protected, and that those who now find themselves legal continue to stay true and agitate on behalf of the rest of us! Much love, <<< Starchild >>> My computer tells me that on Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Andy Wyszkowski shared: > > They (bongs, pipes, papers, grunge off, head shops) only stay legal > because a segment of the population can play the game of... civil > liberty warfare. > > Part of civil liberty warfare is staying cool. They say, that's a pot > pipe, I say, no... this is my pipe for smoking Earl Grey Tea. My > religion supports me smoking earl grey at tea time. Would you like to > talk to my lawyer? > > I don't mind if by carrying around a 6' bong I fuck it up for the > non-cannabis herb smokers of the world, but prop 215 is a different > story. > > If you're not sick with glaucoma, cancer, undergoing chemo or > radiotherapy, or starting to experience full blown AIDS symptoms, you > should not abuse the 215 name. If it wins, it's a victory for > medicine, it's a victory for the legalization movement, but if > everybody busts out with the kind and starts snapping bongloads on > Market St, there's going to be a really negative public backlash. I'd > hate to lose this for the sick because some fuckups want to get high > and claim they have a ticket to ride because of 215. > > I agree with whoever said CBC got shut down because of people who were > never intended to be there (kids, bunk notes, multiple caregivers for > one patient). This is a somber occasion... people are DYING and we're > working on making medicine available for them. > > I guess what I'm asking everybody to do is work on seeing this for > what it is. > > If you haven't worked with people who are terminally ill, perhaps you > wouldn't understand. My friend Chris passed away recently, and I used > to bring him 'free samples'... It was part "make a wish foundation" > (he really liked being stoned) and part pain relief (or at least he'd > forget it hurt). It was really amazing though. He was a stoner > before he got sick, and I'm sure he's a stoner now wherever he is. I > did what I did, not out of profit or pity, but because I felt that > getting stoned with him sweetened both our lives as his time of > passing came. It meant so much to him. I didn't know him that well, > but I'm glad I met him, and I'm glad I could help him. I learned a > lot. I think about that and that's how I envision compassionate use. > > I wish we could get away from our own needs, and concentrate on the > issue. Please don't use 215 as an excuse to use, possess, or > cultivate marijuana unless you are sick or a caregiver (I'm currently > neither). If you choose to be part of the movement to legalize it, > contact NORML. > > Be discrete, informed and keep your head on straight. You are a > walking advertisement for your beliefs and opinions. Talk to those > that almost understand. Don't fall into the "hey dude let's party" > stereotype. We've been having our civil liberties taken for us to the > point that we can't use certain medicines on our selves when we're > sick or just plain in the mood for it (one of the safest drugs known > to mankind might I add). > > So when you're toking tonite, or this weekend at a party, think about > what it would be like to know that those who need it more than you > might have a chance to enjoy without persecution. That's what you > voted for, and it's one of the coolest, nicest things I can think of. > If you want that right too, read, act, discuss, and prepare to give to > the cause. Cypress Hill won't do it for you.... > > Peace, > AndyW > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 00:37:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA18175; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:37:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA18168; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:37:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id AAA03139; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:37:02 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: star owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:37:02 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: "jonas j. robledo" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: SFWaves! (LOL-related) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19961105193114.0067f0ac@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear Fwends, My computer tells me that on Tue, 5 Nov 1996, jonas j. robledo shared (in part): > "wave on, wave on"-elmer fudd Somehow, I like the idea of this on my bumper! Or how about: "Wave on, you wascally wavers!" or even: "I'd wather be waving!" Either of the above could be accompanied by a picture of Elmer, decked out in suitable gear, perhaps behind turntables with Bugs Bunny slipmats? 8)- Th-th-th-that's all folks, <<< Starchild >>> From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 01:45:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id BAA22534; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:45:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id BAA22529; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:45:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id BAA05632; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:45:15 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: star owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 01:45:14 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: Geoff White cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, jack@twaxx.com Subject: Re: (NRR) Geoff's history lesson In-Reply-To: <199611061116.DAA14307@precipice.v-site.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear SFRavefriends, Although Geoff clearly has a good deal of knowledge of history, I think dividing people on the basis of race, however good your intentions are, remains as bad an idea now as it ever was. And although I love San Francisco and am proud to live here, I don't think San Franciscans have a monopoly on wisdom. 8) Also, racism occurs in many colors. And speaking of colors, classifying people on this basis breaks down very quickly. If your mother was Irish and your dad was Nigerian, does that make you black? How about if you're 1/4 black? 1/8th? If we're all descended from Africans some millions of years ago, as the archaeological record seems to show, does that make all of us people of color? Another thing about history is that it doesn't break down along neat racial lines. Many southern and eastern Europeans were long discriminated against in this country, people that today would generally be called "white" (what a catch-all term for such an ethnically diverse group of people!) Indians fought and killed other Indians, albeit not on such a massive organized scale as settlers did later, and blacks in Africa were slave traders and sold other blacks into slavery. Although only blacks were slaves in America (not counting numerous smaller scale enslavements of Chinese in Chinese-run sweatshops and the like), looking back throughout history, every race has had its share of slavery. Indeed, people used to believe slavery was indispensible to civilization! Now we know better, that it is in fact antithetical to civilization... Looking at the numbers Geoff brought up, if he's correct that only white men over 30 could vote (and originally you had to be a property owner, too), keep in mind that the average lifespan back then was considerably less, under 60 is my guess. So the equivalent today would be for you not to be allowed to vote until age 35 or 40! Before this, in the age of monarchy, you could only "vote" (i.e. have a voice in making government-level decisions) if you were a monarch, until the Magna Carta in 1215 when this right began to be expanded to include the nobility. Therefore in the historical time scale Geoff presented, it is not really white men who had control for the longest period, but royalty -- for thousands of years, before white men as a group (and only a very few members of that group, not all white men) became empowered. So I guess to be fair, we need to figure out who has royal blood, and then give everyone else some sort of special affirmative action preference. Obviously this is ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than the idea that you should get special consideration on the basis of race, imho. An end to racism means an end to taking race into consideration. If you want to keep considering it because you're afraid someone else is still secretly considering it, there's no way we can ever end it, because we can't read each other's minds. Love & tears for humanity, <<< Starchild >>> From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 02:57:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id CAA01307; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 02:57:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id CAA01303; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 02:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (star@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id CAA07583; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 02:57:22 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: star owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 02:57:22 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@pluto To: KaySEE cc: knucklehead , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: Re: YES/NO ON 209? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear KaySEE & SFRavefriends, You and Tekno313 both voiced what I find to be one of the most frequent misuses of the language in defense of preferences: Myc computer tells me that on Wed, 6 Nov 1996, KaySEE shared (in part): > A very common misconception is that affirmative action > means less qualified. That is wrong. Everyone who benefits from > affirmative action is qualified. Of course, there are your occasional > exceptions of people taking advantage of this, but, honestly, this is much > more rare than you might believe. KaySEE, you say above it's a misconception that affirmative action means less qualified, then you say that everyone who benefits from affirmative action is qualified -- leaving out that critical little word, "less." Obviously everyone has to meet certain minimum qualifications to get any job, even if it's working at McDonald's. So it's true, no one who is *unqualified* gets hired, promoted, etc. under affirmative action. But you'd better believe that people *less* qualified do get preferential treatment under such programs all the time. That's the whole point of these programs. Otherwise they would specify that affirmative action recipients have to be the most qualified applicants, which they never do. If you got something by means of affirmative action, it means that ordinarily you would not have been considered the most qualified, and in the process of getting it, someone more qualified lost out. It's that simple. And whoever said it wasn't a black/white thing is absolutely right. As Geoff pointed out, without affirmative action, UC Berkeley would be almost all Asian, because more top-qualified Asians than whites are excluded from the school. What affirmative action does is elevate mediocrity, no matter which groups comes out on top and which on the bottom, and I don't see how that can be regarded as good for anyone. <<< Starchild >>> From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 06:26:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id GAA18333; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 06:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id GAA18329; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 06:26:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 06:23:47 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA24334; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 06:23:47 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: YES/NO ON 209? Final attempt! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Let me just say one more thing very carefully before I put my other foot into my mouth. This is exactly why I don't USUALLY get into debates like this on this list. For one, I never say what I really mean because my mind work really fast and usually I'm doing more then one thing when I read sfraves. So I'd like to say that I'm sorry If I pissed anyone off with what I said. I re-read all my post this morning and found that some of what I said came out NOT exactly how I wanted it to be said. And two, since I'm usually doing more then one thing while answering email on here, I tend to throw everything I'm thinking into one email and putting more then one issue into another confusing both issue together. I don't intend to do that but it happens and I'm sorry. So, I'll just go back to the main issue on this list, RAVING, and keep my opinions to myself before I piss off anyone else. Last stand on 209... 50/50... both sides have great points. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 08:13:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA26565; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:13:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA26552; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:13:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.8.2/UCD3.8.1) id IAA09221; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:11:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:11:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611071611.IAA09221@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: noah@cadence.com (Noah Ruiz) From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: NRR: I need support... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Noah, I'm really sorry to hear about the condition of your father. I pray that he weather's this storm, and is able to lead a fulfilling life beyond these difficult times. This is a good opportunity for you to reflect on the impermance of this precious human existance we have, and hopfully be inspired to do good things with your life while you are here on this planet. The difference between life and death is as simple as exhaling...or not. Which will come first, the next breath or the next life....we do not know. I pray for health and happiness for your father, you and all beings. May we all attain liberation to benefit others. Rick At 10:25 AM 11/6/96 -0800, you wrote: >...From the list! > >Hello everyone! > >Yesterday was the one of the hardest days of my life. The one thing that I >thought I could handle has happened, and I'm barely handling it! My father >was taken to the emergency room and had to have surgery on his large >intestine. Well they found a huge tumor that they took out, and he also >has colon cancer. I'm shaking as I write this today, but I'm in need of >some support. So if anyone out there has some good thoughts to say to me >please do! > >I tried to not think about it last night and practice my set for BBQ & >BEATS, but I couldn't concentrate! =| So I could use all the help I can >get. > >Thanks for your time, > >Love, > >Noah Ruiz > > > > > "Let me have silence always in the centre of the shouting, that is essential. Let me have silence so that no pin may drop and not be heard, and not a whisper. Escape us for all our spouting, nor the needle scratching upon this gramophone of the circular cosmic spot. Hear me, mark me, learn me, throw the mind's ear open. Shut up the mind's eye, all will be music. What sculpture of sound cannot, what cannot as a fluid token words, that nothing else cannot." -Wyndham Lewis From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 08:33:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA28280; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:33:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA28262; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:33:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBCC86.4BE0AC80@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:33:05 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: Admin 679XB561 MS PC Mail , sfraves - send mail to list Subject: YLEM Art Forum at Exploratorium on 11/13 at 7:30 pm Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:21:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk YLEM - Artists Using Science and Technology is hosting a forum: "Brain, Perception and Conciousness" ---------------------------------- Wednesday, November 13, 7:30 pm at the Exploratorium - McBean Theatre 3601 Lyon Street (at the Palace of Fine Arts) San Francisco, CA 94123 Free, open to the public, all are invited! Come meet some fellow artomatons! How does seeing become knowing? This is a subject that piques artists' interest. We will hear from some distinguished researchers and see a video that plays to our perceptions. What is conciousness? Can there be a planetary conciousness? Presentations: Neural Pathways to Perception ----------------------------- Michael Stryker will discuss how patterns of neural activity in the eye and brain guide the development of connections to the visual cortex during early life. Stryker is neurobiologist studies the development of the visual cortex and its inputs. He is Chairman of the Dept. of Physiology at UCSF. Totem of Heavenly Wisdom ------------------------ Tamiko Thiel will show a 2D computer graphic simulation of a new video install- ation in the Totem Project, the Totem of Heavenly Wisdom. Thiel has studied product design at Stanford, human/computer interfaces at MIT Media Lab and fine art in Munich, Germany. The Autostereogram -------------------- Christopher Tyler, PhD. has long been interested in the mysteries of 3D vision and was lucky enough to work at Bell Labs with Bela Julesz, father of the random dot stereogram. In 1979 he conceived of using the classic wallpaper effect to program the free-viewing repetitive stereograms that have bee popularized in the Magic Eye books. Tyler is Associate Director of the Smith- Kettlewell Eye Research Institute in San Francisco, an independent organization devoted to the study of vision, brain processing, eye diseases and devices for the blind. An Essential Mystery: Brains Imagine ------------------------------------ Trudy Myrrh Reagan presents her new painting by this name on the subject of conciousness. Trudy is the founder of YLEM and is an artist incorporating science images and ideas in her art. Her "Essentialn Mysteries" series treats intriguing subjects that scientists investigate but probably will never "solve". From the Silk Road to the Silicon Road -------------------------------------- Alexander Besher explores how the planet can evolve into a new template of collective conciousness. Bescher is a SF based journalist, novelist and futurist. He is the author of Rim: A Novel of Virtual Reality, which was nominated for the Philip K. Dick award in 1994. He wrote the syndicate column "Pacific Rim" for 7 years and is the author of the Pacific Rim Almanac. jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: :..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 08:42:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA29179; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:42:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from svpal.svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA29175; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:42:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from djtom@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA08225; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:42:34 -0700 (PPET) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:42:34 -0700 (PPET) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: (bsp) 2o12 - details, details... (fwd) To: Happy Ravers , everyone , goa@party.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- hello =) im ecstatic and glowing in delivering this message... on saturday, november 9th the koinonea fellowship bring everyone: -> 2o12 <- a psychedelic trance ritual celebrating the ending of the great galactic cycle 3113 bc - ad 2o12. djs will be dutch, tom, jason and jeremiah. this event will be in San Francisco. we'll start things off with an open meditation and continue acoustic drumming for a while before the trance begins. also we'll have free organcic fruit, chai by NubChaiCircus (these fellows accept *nonmandatory* donations to keep their shindig running), and a Gaian Mind Test ->this is a combination of harmonics and light pulsations aimed at inducing states of trance<- cost is $8 and our VM is 415.525.5o52. we have a limited capacity, so please come early. ->positivity<- tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 09:02:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA01138; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:02:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from compassion.hotmail.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA01123; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:02:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (http://www.hotmail.com 28182 invoked by uid 0); 7 Nov 1996 15:52:42 -0000 Date: 7 Nov 1996 15:52:42 -0000 Message-ID: <19961107155242.28181.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.86.127.204 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Nov 1996 07:52:42 PST From: "Bagok Tribe" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: :) S M I L E S (: Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Cybertribe, This Friday night (November 8th), the Bagok Tribe presents: S M I L E S =] =] =] =] =] with DJ's: TONY (Gathering/Basics) DREAMER (21st birthday boy/Bagok Tribe) CARLOS (SF House Collective) GLENN GARCIA (Fantasia 2/NYC - NJ Underground) MARSHAL VILLAROSA (transplant to the SF area from NJ) Wicked Turbo Sound Chill room by the ACID WORMS For info and directions, call: 415.437.6905 510.674.8663 $12 with a canned food before midnight Please come share a night of unity and love with us and bring your Smile peace, love, unity, and respect, The Bagok Tribe p.s. Thanks to all who came out to "Pumpkin Patch" on Halloween. --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 09:02:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA01155; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:02:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA01106; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:02:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBCC8A.58629730@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:02:04 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: You want facts? I'll give you facts! (Education Spending) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:50:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm sorry! education spending HASN'T doubled in real dollars in the last 25 years. It's been in the last 30 years. SO SUE ME! Annual Expenditures Per Pupil in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools School Nominal Constant Year Dollars 1994 Dollars ----------- -------- ------------ 1950 260 654 1955 387 2165 1960 517 2588 1965 654 3082 1970 1049 3973 1975 1697 4603 1980 2742 4762 1985 4020 5556 1990 5885 6610 1995 6857 6857 Source: US Dept of Education, National Center for Education Statistics Digest of Education Statistics 1995 jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 09:12:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA02110; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:12:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA02106; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA09904; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:12:40 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199611071712.JAA09904@netcom17.netcom.com> Subject: Re: NRR: Re: YES/NO ON 209? To: star@sfsu.edu (Starchild) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:12:40 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Starchild" at Nov 7, 96 02:57:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > > Dear KaySEE & SFRavefriends, > > You and Tekno313 both voiced what I find to be one of the most > frequent misuses of the language in defense of preferences: > > Myc computer tells me that on Wed, 6 Nov 1996, KaySEE shared (in part): > > > A very common misconception is that affirmative action > > means less qualified. That is wrong. Everyone who benefits from > > affirmative action is qualified. Of course, there are your occasional > > exceptions of people taking advantage of this, but, honestly, this is much > > more rare than you might believe. > > KaySEE, you say above it's a misconception that affirmative action means > less qualified, then you say that everyone who benefits from affirmative > action is qualified -- leaving out that critical little word, "less." > > Obviously everyone has to meet certain minimum qualifications to get any > job, even if it's working at McDonald's. So it's true, no one who is > *unqualified* gets hired, promoted, etc. under affirmative action. > > But you'd better believe that people *less* qualified do get preferential > treatment under such programs all the time. That's the whole point of > these programs. Otherwise they would specify that affirmative action > recipients have to be the most qualified applicants, which they never do. > > If you got something by means of affirmative action, it means that > ordinarily you would not have been considered the most qualified, and in > the process of getting it, someone more qualified lost out. It's that > simple. > > And whoever said it wasn't a black/white thing is absolutely right. As > Geoff pointed out, without affirmative action, UC Berkeley would be almost > all Asian, because more top-qualified Asians than whites are excluded from > the school. > > What affirmative action does is elevate mediocrity, no matter which groups > comes out on top and which on the bottom, and I don't see how that can be > regarded as good for anyone. > > <<< Starchild >>> > > Once again, Affirmative Actions goals are simple. To allow QUALIFIED minorities and women preference in jobs where they are underrepresented, or the job/position/industry has a pattern of discrimination agaisnt same. Stop lying, and get informed. As a matter of fact, a few years in teh workplace wouldn't hurt. Out, John P.S. For the last time, it is not about promoting unqualified applicants. Promoting or hiring the unqualified under the GUISE of Affirmative Action does nobody any good. Besides such prqactices are not only NOT Affirmative Action, they are stupid business decisions. The point will be moot in 16 or so years so... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 09:16:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA02447; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:16:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from twaxx.twaxx.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA02401; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:16:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by twaxx.twaxx.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) id JAA01024; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:02:16 -0800 From: "-=jack=-" Message-Id: <9611070902.ZM1022@twaxx.com> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:02:13 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Niels P. Mayer" "opinion" (Nov 6, 12:33pm) References: <199611062033.MAA18113@netcom23.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: "Niels P. Mayer" , geoffw@V-site.net Subject: Re: opinion on Texaco, "``black jelly beans'' and ``niggers''" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk jelly beans'' and ``niggers''" Cc: jem@sunsite.unc.edu, ses@tipper.oit.unc.edu, jasong@eit.com, jack@twaxx.com, jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee), sfraves@hyperreal.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NOTE: I'm widening the discussion to include the sfraves people who were dropped from the message to which I reply, and to include some folks who I think have quite possibly some valuable contributions, should they want to respond... if this bothers you, then simply delete this message... -=j=- Now, on to the discussion of this bullshit from Texaco: -------------------------- The excerpts quote Texaco excutives discussing plans in 1994 to destroy evidence that had been requested by Berger's clients. The executives use expletives and racist terms including ``black jelly beans'' and ``niggers'' to belittle African American employees. -------------------------- While obviously completely outrageous, this is not all that uncommon. In some industries, for example, (particularly Industries whose 'age' is older than a certain threshold), such attitudes are not only present, but quite common. In our corporate society, these attitudes have been shown to be very prevalent in the oil and auto industries, two industries whose values tend to be very old world, and whose power brokers tend to be very high up in the corporate/governmental power and money ladder. It's indicative, for example, that Lee Iacocca, an auto industry executive, accompanied George Bush to Japan to discuss trade issues (this was when Bush tossed the cookies all over some Japanese diplomat). Iacocca, from the auto industry, hangs out with Bush, ex CIA director (which he publicly denied... Bush was a pathological liar...), whose involvement (alleged, but pretty clear to most reasonable people) in the Iran-contra fiasco involved the flooding of many black neighborhoods with crack cocaine.... These folks hang together because they think alike... the sectors of society and of the corporate world from which they hail are rife with bigotry (against not only blacks, but women, and all kinds of other non-white, non-republican, non-rich, etc.). In the aftermath of the Iran Contra debacle, the San Jose Mercury has even named the person (Danilo Blandon) who contacted a young black man named Mark Ross who was the point of distribution for this CIA (read your tax money) funded cut rate cocaine selling operation. Ross, who had no knowledge of his connection's ties to the Reagan/Bush political machine, and the CIA, was sold massive quantities of cocaine at very low price. See: http://www.sjmercury.com/drugs/ for a completely wild, true story that should turn heads. So here we have a guy in the auto industry (there are tales about discrimination in that industry as well, many of which are as heinous as the Texaco thing), hanging with an ex-CIA director, come vice president and president who is fingered in the distribution of cocaine into black neighborhoods (all of this happening when Congress had forbidden any monetary or other aid to the Contras), and in support of the toppling of a populist Nicaraguan government (i.e. Daniel Ortega, who had the literacy level of that tiny country above that of our own) because that populist government had thrown out Somoza, who was a pawn of U.S. corporations wanting to exploit the raw materials of that country. This is not only nothing new, but is a distinct pattern in certain areas of American corporate business, who often think that manifest destiny extends to all corners of the globe, and that the rest of the "rabble from around the world" exist simply to line the pockets of the white corporate right wing elite, of which Bush, Iacocca and the Texaco people are all part, not to mention the agribusiness interests which were driving much of the stuff going on in central America. So is there discrimination and racism in the American corporate elite? Do you really need to ask? There are folks who want to assume that racism is over and 'why don't those blacks and Mexicans get a damn job?', but the fact is, that systematic bigotry has been the norm within certain industries in particular, and is endemic across wide portions of the largely white and right wing corporate elite. We have had a serious tendency to loosen any "checks and balances" present in our governmental structure so that these folks (who possess more money and power than our government itself, in many cases) have basically no fetters preventing any abuse of wealth and power. This is why I harp on the need to limit corporate power, and to limit exactly what can be purchased through money. Since it's completely ridiculous to even suppose that any individual or group of such could amass the kind of money available to many corporate heads, it's of great concern that if we want to continue to consider this a democracy, then we must limit the ability of money to influence our political spectrum. In the spirit of this, many of these corporate people put out massive campaigns threatening loss of jobs and other things because they don't want to lose the power and privilege they currently have. This is to be expected, as power never gives up power without a struggle, but what is particularly sad is that so many young people (largely white, I must admit) have swallowed the corporate propaganda hook, line and sinker, and unwittingly support the intricate machinations of the corporate elite without realizing what in fact they are really supporting. This all becomes clear, however, when one is personally made a victim of this power "cartel", but many don't see it until it's "too late". Although it doesn't really change the landscape much, I would say that in general, while there is certainly discrimination and bigotry in the computer industry, it's also probably true that this industry isn't nearly as dirty as the oil, agribusiness, auto and banking industries are. Not that we should relax, nor quit applying pressure to get reform, but I do believe that our industry is much less bigoted than the others I just mentioned. It's still our duty, if we really do care that bigotry disappear, to continue to hammer upon the "golden walls" of the monetary/power elite, and to that extent it's probably very necessary to continue these discussions. As for folks who simply try to insist that bigotry has disappeared, well they're either confused by the corporate propaganda pushed by people like Bush, the Texaco folks, & the 6 (!?) or so companies that control nearly all television, and their ilk, or they are people who simply realize that it's "uncool" to be a bigot, but whose self interest has basically made them a bigot anyway, so they try to hide it under rationalization. For the most part, to the educated and aware eye, it's a pathetic attempt that rarely convinces. I'm afraid there are folks all through even our "precious" little rave scene who tend to fall into one of these two categories (i.e. they either are fooled by propaganda saying that bigotry is over, or they are "closet bigots" themselves, who simply don't want to be recognized as such). So, we will continue to shed light where it's possible, and folks like myself will continue to attempt to create bridges between the white community (i.e. I'm white... BFD) and the communities disenfranchised by bigotry. It's instructive to realize, that "white trash", or those whites not in possession of money and power, are no more dear to the corporate elite who exercise nearly absolute money and power, than are the black and Hispanic and gay communities who are more typically known as the victims of this bigotry. As Malcolm realized near the end of his life, it's really more about socioeconomic class, and that it's really about the rich and powerful remaining so, rather than a "whites first" thing being perpetrated from the top. I'm waiting for the non elite white people all across this country to realize they're getting shafted just as much as the black and other "minority" communities, and hopefully, as this realization dawns upon these people, they'll realize that the political agendas that tend to cause problems for "minorities" are also the same strategies, put forth by the same people that have been holding down these non wealthy, non powerful white folks. Currently, the message is that the loss of jobs, to take an example, is due to immigrants. What it is really due to is higher salaries for the corporate elite, who will just as willingly do away with the jobs of poor white workers as they would for poor Black or Hispanic workers. If there is a realization amongst us all that we all have a common enemy, and that our common enemy is also an enemy of our Constitution, we'll start to make some progress, but for now these elite have happily caused us to bicker amongst ourselves, which fairly ensures that we'll not be able to amass the numbers, money, or power to upset their strangle hold on wealth and power in America today. However, should we realize (those of us who don't already) what is *REALLY* going on, it's entirely possible that we could change this 'with a quickness'... [remember that song...? Michael Cooper, ex of confunkshun...]. So I'll keep talking... and hope you do the same! -=j=- -- ======================================================== http://buchu.eit.com:8888/ ======================================================== -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJcRkwAAAEEANoOMXed+AYlxZ+W+wwh4Y0k5RXWOchD61yfX+xWyK4RyHqk t56t2fugPdY8EhRWr09meMsX1ijSslsK3IIIGm/5/gKzH09GJRLJOWW+ynpXRxtb /BErcstAMthUzEC1ZMJg1Mdg0rMPuu0WHjU0ZnhkY+fTUg+nNU4AahBXYf+RAAUT tBktPWphY2s9LSA8amFja0B0d2F4eC5jb20+iQCVAwUQMlxGTE4AahBXYf+RAQFW wQP9FVMu+L/Z/URQye2RoWLtUDNvIdsc7pQVbhk60qKamrIsuPtUG6FYeFhOAMkp GgG0FZxXsawUQp/v9QbcaPIacDn1QI/dDHnon7WRO/5ShkLCA8inWpcCwNduZu4H wMD0FnPAg9BYXBExwxOaHyD86IqVnnMnYbDuq9ABNTpNGaQ= =vucK -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 09:27:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA03723; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:27:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA03712; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:27:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA11260; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:27:29 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199611071727.JAA11260@netcom17.netcom.com> Subject: Systematic Racism part II. To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:27:29 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well my first message got munged....fuck... Anyway, I am sure that by now everyone is hearing about the "black jellybeans" and "niggers", and "porch monkeys" who work at Texaco. I am interested as to how Starchild and other proponents of 209 are COMPLETELY SILENT about this level of abusive racism. Yeah, you guys want a playing feild based on merit. I only have one question, WHO DETERMINES MERIT. From ym and millions of other African-Americans, merit is determined by those white males at the top. Whatever...this country, and many people minds need a wakeup call. I would only hope for a grand experiment. For people whohave NO EMPATHY for people of color and women to live as us for one day. "You couldn't handle the truth!" Here's the story...how about 1 mile in my shoes, no? A yard? ------- Texaco Execs Planned to Destroy Evidence, Tapes NEW YORK (Reuter) - Secret tapes of Texaco, Inc. executives show they discussed destroying key evidence in a discrimination lawsuit and disparaged minority workers as "niggers" and "black jelly beans," a lawyer in the case alleged Monday. Daniel Berger, who represents black employees suing Texaco, said he has asked a White Plains, N.Y., federal court to sanction the company because of the officials' plans to destroy evidence. Excerpts from tapes of the executives' meetings were included in court papers seeking sanctions. "What we put in our papers is extremely damning because they discussed purging their files, shredding documents and concealing information," said Berger, a partner at Bernstein Litowitz Berger & Grossmann. Berger's motion alleges that senior officers destroyed or withheld documents after one executive specificially identified them at his deposition on Aug. 5, 1994, and after the plaintiffs had requested them. He said lawyers at his firm were shocked when they received the tapes from the former executive who had identified the documents and secretly recorded the meetings. "Our jaws dropped. They are still on the floor," Berger told Reuters. "I've been practicing law for 17 years and I've never come across anything like this." The tapes were turned over as part of the legal proceedings in the suit that was filed in 1994 by six blacks who alleged that Texaco had been systematically discriminating against them in promotions and fostering a hostile environment since at least early 1991. Some plaintiffs alleged that black employees at the company have been called "orangutans" and "porch monkey." U.S. District Judge Charles Brieant had asked the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission to investigate the allegations and earlier this year the EEOC issued a finding that Texaco had failed to promote black employees because of their race. The plaintiffs have asked the court to certify the suit as a class action to represent the some 1,400 minority employees at the company. A hearing on the certification issue is expected in December. Texaco said it had heard about the tapes last week and had hired outside counsel, Michael Armstrong of Kirkpatrick and Lockhart, to conduct an independent investigation. "If these allegations are true, they represent an outrageous violation of the company's core values and principles. Any such conduct is deplorable and will never be tolerated by Texaco," the company said in a statement. Berger would not comment on whether there were any settlement negotiations under way with the oil company. The tapes were turned over to Berger's firm by Richard Lundwall, who was the senior coordinator for personnel services in Texaco's finance department. Court papers said Lundwall contacted them Aug. 1 and said he had been terminated by Texaco effective Aug. 31 According to court papers, Lundwall was responsible for keeping minutes at meetings of the most senior Finance Department officers to discuss "the development of women and minorities within the department." He said that he had secretly taped the sessions to ensure the accuracy of his minutes. Lundwall said that a meeting was held on Aug. 14, 1994, to review documents that the plaintiffs had requested as part of their discrimination suit. Lundwall told the lawyers that one of the reasons for the meeting was to "hide" documents from the plaintiffs. Excerpts of the tapes contained in court papers quote executives including Lundwall and Robert Ulrich, the company's treasurer until he retired last year, discussing how they should destroy a key document. "We're going to purge the ---- out of these books," Ulrich is quoted as saying. Both Ulrich and Lundwall refer to African American employees as "black jelly beans" and Ulrich, using expletives, also uses the word "niggers." They are quoted complaining how the company has had to adjust to demands by minorities. They discuss how some black employees were interested in Kwanzaa, a December celebration based on African harvest festivals. "I'm still having trouble with Hanukkah," said Ulrich. "Now we have Kwanzaa." Texaco's stock closed at $97.625, down $2.125, on the New York Stock Exchange. ----- Did anyone watch Nightline last night? The CEO was there yapping and gobbling. I was actually PROUD of Ted Kopple who latched onto his ass like a pit bull. The fucker couldn't even admit, publicly, that his people were wrong at first, he danced around the issue citing a "lack of judgement". He never called what they did as wrong. And you gotta know that HE had something to do with the atmosphere in such a place, as ALL CEO's do. And these fuckers are SUBSIDIZED via TAX BREAKS paid for by MY DOLLARS! I hope Teaxco ceases to exist. I hope they never stop paying out of the ass for how they treat their black employees. And it is obvious that *I* cannot trust the white males at the top to do diddly squat for anyone who doesn't fit thier mold. The fuckers in question had the GALL to calll the National Anthem "ours". The audacity...but what else does one expect from those who wouldn't know what real struggle is....the fight continues. Also 209 is already tied up. A shallow victory for the racists who backed this proposition, and the people who bought into the misnaming of this initiative. Out. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 09:39:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA04953; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:39:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA04942; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA12281; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:39:26 -0800 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199611071739.JAA12281@netcom17.netcom.com> Subject: Re: NRR: Re: YES/NO ON 209? To: blkadder@value.net Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:39:26 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "blkadder@value.net" at Nov 6, 96 07:58:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, KaySEE wrote: > > > We are now in a global economy, which is not something that is going to go > > away. In order to understand our neighbor and compete effectively in this > > global economy, our education must not exist in a vacuum. By this I mean, > > we should not be educated with people that are exactly like ourselves. > > But, if you use highest test scores as the only requisite, you will get > > that. Affirmative action attempts to address this matter and extend > > qualifications beyond the highest test scores. It accounts for > > discrepencies in an individual's life experiences caused by lack of > > resources. > > No, it accounts for discrepencies in *certain* individual's life > experience. Those certain individual being determined by their race or > sex, and not by the real or imagined discrepency in their lives. > > > We live in a nation that has citizens that come from almost > > all other nations in the world. We are the only country like that, a > > veritable experiment in human culture. We should reap the benefits of > > such a situation, and in the process we must make-up for our short-comings > > which include racism. > > Perhaps you were or are a racist, and need to redress your sins, however I > am not, nor have ever been to the best of my knowledge. Why attempt to > hold *me* accountable for actions which I condemn and have had nothing to > do with? Just because you are an immigrant does not make you immune from this country's jhistory. You and others come over here, you had better be ready to accept the good with the bad. Fact is we ALL relive the sins of our fathers. A company poluutes for decades, goes out of biz, people forget they were there, build upon polluted land, and the children get sick, are malformed, or die. The sins of the father are ALWAYS visited upon the son. One should take time to undo the sins of the father. Else they be visited upon us endlessly. The typical immigrant stance is "I had nothing to do with it.". Yeah, neither did I. But I still live with the vestiges of racism every day. And they are not vestiges, they are real. When you come here, you get it all, you cannot say you like a,b,& c but have nothing to do with the rest of the alphabet. That is not what this country is all about...we are ALL in this together. We are all part and play a part in the mold history has set for us. > > > > A very common misconception is that affirmative action > > means less qualified. That is wrong. Everyone who benefits from > > affirmative action is qualified. Of course, there are your occasional > > exceptions of people taking advantage of this, but, honestly, this is much > > more rare than you might believe. > > Again, you are incorrect. I have given specific examples of this. Persons > seeking employment for the Dept. of Corrections are given extra points on > tests if they are of specific national origin. It should be obvious that > this can result in the selection of less qualified canidates for a given > position. I also remember a similar situation with persons seeking > employment with the U.S. Postal service, however I am not positive(I took > the test several years ago.) And again you are incorrect. That is not Affirmative Action. That is a quaota system which is illegal UNLESS it is court ordered. And under court order you still have to get QUALIFIED candidates. Get the facts straight. > > > The white backlash that has made "preferences" a dirty word, stems from > > our economic situation. > > Preference is merely another word for discrimination. And yes > discrimination is a dirty word in my book. > And this country has a very dirty history. So we gotta clean it up. Want a broom, or do you just want to say "I didn't create that pile of dirt, YOU ALL clean it up!" That is not what this country is about. Don't want to participate, recent immigrant? I invite you to go back home. > > People are worried about job security and want > > someone to blame it on. Enter your sacrificial lamb: immigrants, > > minorities, and women. > > "People?" Which people? Let's be clear about this, shall we? In a society > where there are more women than men? In a society where "minority" groups > outnumber whites? > Sorry charlie, whites are still the majority, even in CA by a slim margin, but not for long. Not for long at all. > > Instead of seeing yourself as possessing an > > ever-decreasing piece of the pie, look at it from the view that we can all > > possess a piece of it, not just a few. And, someone is not going to come > > steal it from you. But, conservatives want you to believe that is true. > > In that way, they can maintain their position of power. They can get > > their kids into the *exact* school they want, educate them with > > people exactly like themselves, do job deals with people exactly like > > themselves, etc. Guess what? This is the Good Ole Boys Network. > > Whenever I see the words "the liberal press" I always chuckle to myself, > thinking of the Rush Limbaugh fans, praying to the altar of Rush. Whenever > I see "the conservatives want you to think..." I get the same chuckle. > Given a lack of specifics, you choose to make abstractions, condeming all > "conservatives" as thinking a specific way. > > Let me personalize it for you: > > I voted for 209. I am not stupid, have not been brainwashed by the > "conservatives." I do not have a position of power, nor am I the member of > any "Good 'ol Boys Network"(although I hear they get great health club > discounts). Are you saying that I am a racist because I do not agree with > you? > No, it just so happens that many racists supported 209 as well. If you're comfortable with that, then fine. Nope, it doesn't make you a racist, but you choose to support that which the most undesireable support. If that's who you're aligned with then fine. It's your life, your vote, your choice. I never want to be aligned with the likes of Duke, Helms, or the other rabid segregationist Thurmond. Man, our historical view is really short. Funny, my DAD couldn't vite when he was 18. Why? HE WAS BLACK! > > The conservatives scream reverse discrimination and upset the people who > > vote, hold office, and run this country. Let's not let unqualified people > > As someone else so eloquently pointed out: There is no such thing as > "reverse" discrimination. Just discrimination, plain and simple. > > > At its best, affirmative action compensates for one of the greatest > > disabilities of women and minority group members: their lack of access to > > institutions and networks of education, finance, training and employment > > (quoted from Concerned African American Faculty of UC Berkeley). If > > minorities and women are unqualified as white men happen to see it, why > > disband affirmative action and lose whatever access they have to success? > > We all know that public schools are not going to address this problem any > > time soon. > > You are sterotyping. And as I have said to others before, this makes you > little better than a bigot. You are no different than those you decry. > > > Prop 209 is a huge deception to Californians. If you voted for it, ask > > yourself why? Do you honestly believe prop 209 is about discrimination > > and unfairness towards whites? > > No, it about discrimination and unfairness to *ANY* group, on the basis of > their color, sex, etc. > > Black Adder > > > The real question is what do you do about hundreds of years of discrimination...just pass laws, or take decisive action. What do you propose to ensure everyone gets a chance? Do you feel those opps are already there? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 09:40:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA05047; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:40:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA04998; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:39:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id JAA24924; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:42:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199611071742.JAA24924@precipice.v-site.net> From: "Geoff White" To: , "knucklehead" Subject: Re: YES/NO 209?? Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:40:08 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > I read and article last year (sorry can't remember the magazine) it had a > bunch of babies lined up in 5 rows of about 6-8. At the very end was a > single white baby. The title of the article was " Hey whitey, it's your > turn to sit at the back of the bus". All the other babies were of color. It > stated by the middle of 96 to early 97 that white males will be in the > minority. So, maybe 209 might be a good idea. > Within the state of California this is almost true, as far as the school system is concerned I believe that over 50% of the students already consider themselves to be "non-white". Within the next 50 years White (non-hispanic) people will become an actual minority in california making up less than 49% of the population. The African American population in California is shrinking whereas the Hispanic and Asian population is increasing rapidly. I believe that the census states that hispanic families have 8 children to every single child had by a "white" family. Now mind you racial classifications are totally subjective and tend to be VERY BIAS. I have a friend who's Father is "Black" (from the carribian) and her mother is white, she for all intent looks like a "white girl", her brother (same parents) starts on some TV show (can't remember the name and plays a young latino "gangster" (boy our programming runs deep :) Now who is white and who isn't? In this country racial classification is TOTALLY based on skin color which is arbitrary at best. But maybe it wont matter in 20 years anyway as the majority of people will be brown (just think of all the money that will be saved on sun tan lotion :) > The last thing I have to say about this issue is we have to start teaching > our children to love and respect EVERYONE in the same way we would want to > be treated. That way when they grow up they won't need to even have the > issue of prop 209 or anything that discriminate against certain race, > gender..etc.. We may not be able to change the here and now, but we can do > something about the future. So let's stop blaming one another and let's > work together on making the future a better place for our kids. > > > > Now, let's get back to RAVING. Well that's the point, which is why I tend to support parties that exhibit a large amount of cultural diversity (which is what it all boils down to). Raves (especially well run large raves) have the potential to bring large numbers of different kids together in a social situation, the friendships made here hopefully will extend into adulthood when this generation takes the reigns. Many of the promoters that I know have very diverse organizations with many ethnic groups and sexual persuations represented, the only thing that I believe still comes up is the place of women in the scene, there is still a "treehouse" tendency exhibited by many of the men but it is getting better. This is also why it is importent to get Women "on the decks" competant female DJs (like Tracy DRC and Charlotte) set very important role modles for young girls who go to parties and only see boys in control, they realize that with hard work they can be there too. It's interesting, I was riding the bus around SF yesterday doing my errands and the effects of Prop 209 were already making themselves felt. There was some drunk caucasion man on the back of the bus (#33 Haight no less) with his girlfriend/wife going off about how now he can go get his job back and not worry about no Nigger taking it. He kinda quieted down when I moved to the back of the bus (I guess I was too big of a Nigger to express his opinions openly too :) Some people around him were noticibly embarrised, when he got off the bus, they started to apologize, I said, "Well see what happens when you don't vote" Actually this fucked up Prop was soundly defeated in the great City of San Francisco, the ONLY county in California where the YES vote got less than 10%. On another errand I was riding the #15 into chinatown to go to my acupuncturist. The bus was filled with young asia school kids and some of them were discussing prop 209. One girl was happy that it passed because she wanted to go to UC and before there was a limit on asians attending and her brother didn't get in. Before Asian numbers were decreased to let other minorites in, now since admission is totally based on merit, guess who will be locked out (mostly white males, OOOPS!) One girl said that she didn't want to go to a school with only Asian people attending, One other girl said that it didn't matter because the work force was still controlled by white people, for now.. and they all laughed. Actually, I think the problem is one of economics, in another 100 years at the rate that we are going, White, Black and Asian people will ALL be minorities in the USA, every one will be BROWN Rave On. G From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 09:44:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA05423; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:44:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from twaxx.twaxx.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA05383; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:44:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by twaxx.twaxx.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) id JAA01180; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:30:16 -0800 From: "-=jack=-" Message-Id: <9611070930.ZM1178@twaxx.com> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 09:30:13 -0800 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: jasong@eit.com, jem@sunsite.unc.edu, jsl@netcom.com, ses@tipper.oit.unc.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: (Fwd) Re: opinion on Texaco, "``black jelly beans'' and ``niggers''" Cc: mayer@netcom.com, geoffw@v-site.net, jack@twaxx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk NOTE2: I am not sure this reached the wider destination/distribution, so I'm forwarding... pardon me if you have already received this... NOTE: I'm widening the discussion to include the sfraves people who were dropped from the message to which I reply, and to include some folks who I think have quite possibly some valuable contributions, should they want to respond... if this bothers you, then simply delete this message... -=j=- Now, on to the discussion of this bullshit from Texaco: -------------------------- The excerpts quote Texaco excutives discussing plans in 1994 to destroy evidence that had been requested by Berger's clients. The executives use expletives and racist terms including ``black jelly beans'' and ``niggers'' to belittle African American employees. -------------------------- While obviously completely outrageous, this is not all that uncommon. In some industries, for example, (particularly Industries whose 'age' is older than a certain threshold), such attitudes are not only present, but quite common. In our corporate society, these attitudes have been shown to be very prevalent in the oil and auto industries, two industries whose values tend to be very old world, and whose power brokers tend to be very high up in the corporate/governmental power and money ladder. It's indicative, for example, that Lee Iacocca, an auto industry executive, accompanied George Bush to Japan to discuss trade issues (this was when Bush tossed the cookies all over some Japanese diplomat). Iacocca, from the auto industry, hangs out with Bush, ex CIA director (which he publicly denied... Bush was a pathological liar...), whose involvement (alleged, but pretty clear to most reasonable people) in the Iran-contra fiasco involved the flooding of many black neighborhoods with crack cocaine.... These folks hang together because they think alike... the sectors of society and of the corporate world from which they hail are rife with bigotry (against not only blacks, but women, and all kinds of other non-white, non-republican, non-rich, etc.). In the aftermath of the Iran Contra debacle, the San Jose Mercury has even named the person (Danilo Blandon) who contacted a young black man named Mark Ross who was the point of distribution for this CIA (read your tax money) funded cut rate cocaine selling operation. Ross, who had no knowledge of his connection's ties to the Reagan/Bush political machine, and the CIA, was sold massive quantities of cocaine at very low price. See: http://www.sjmercury.com/drugs/ for a completely wild, true story that should turn heads. So here we have a guy in the auto industry (there are tales about discrimination in that industry as well, many of which are as heinous as the Texaco thing), hanging with an ex-CIA director, come vice president and president who is fingered in the distribution of cocaine into black neighborhoods (all of this happening when Congress had forbidden any monetary or other aid to the Contras), and in support of the toppling of a populist Nicaraguan government (i.e. Daniel Ortega, who had the literacy level of that tiny country above that of our own) because that populist government had thrown out Somoza, who was a pawn of U.S. corporations wanting to exploit the raw materials of that country. This is not only nothing new, but is a distinct pattern in certain areas of American corporate business, who often think that manifest destiny extends to all corners of the globe, and that the rest of the "rabble from around the world" exist simply to line the pockets of the white corporate right wing elite, of which Bush, Iacocca and the Texaco people are all part, not to mention the agribusiness interests which were driving much of the stuff going on in central America. So is there discrimination and racism in the American corporate elite? Do you really need to ask? There are folks who want to assume that racism is over and 'why don't those blacks and Mexicans get a damn job?', but the fact is, that systematic bigotry has been the norm within certain industries in particular, and is endemic across wide portions of the largely white and right wing corporate elite. We have had a serious tendency to loosen any "checks and balances" present in our governmental structure so that these folks (who possess more money and power than our government itself, in many cases) have basically no fetters preventing any abuse of wealth and power. This is why I harp on the need to limit corporate power, and to limit exactly what can be purchased through money. Since it's completely ridiculous to even suppose that any individual or group of such could amass the kind of money available to many corporate heads, it's of great concern that if we want to continue to consider this a democracy, then we must limit the ability of money to influence our political spectrum. In the spirit of this, many of these corporate people put out massive campaigns threatening loss of jobs and other things because they don't want to lose the power and privilege they currently have. This is to be expected, as power never gives up power without a struggle, but what is particularly sad is that so many young people (largely white, I must admit) have swallowed the corporate propaganda hook, line and sinker, and unwittingly support the intricate machinations of the corporate elite without realizing what in fact they are really supporting. This all becomes clear, however, when one is personally made a victim of this power "cartel", but many don't see it until it's "too late". Although it doesn't really change the landscape much, I would say that in general, while there is certainly discrimination and bigotry in the computer industry, it's also probably true that this industry isn't nearly as dirty as the oil, agribusiness, auto and banking industries are. Not that we should relax, nor quit applying pressure to get reform, but I do believe that our industry is much less bigoted than the others I just mentioned. It's still our duty, if we really do care that bigotry disappear, to continue to hammer upon the "golden walls" of the monetary/power elite, and to that extent it's probably very necessary to continue these discussions. As for folks who simply try to insist that bigotry has disappeared, well they're either confused by the corporate propaganda pushed by people like Bush, the Texaco folks, & the 6 (!?) or so companies that control nearly all television, and their ilk, or they are people who simply realize that it's "uncool" to be a bigot, but whose self interest has basically made them a bigot anyway, so they try to hide it under rationalization. For the most part, to the educated and aware eye, it's a pathetic attempt that rarely convinces. I'm afraid there are folks all through even our "precious" little rave scene who tend to fall into one of these two categories (i.e. they either are fooled by propaganda saying that bigotry is over, or they are "closet bigots" themselves, who simply don't want to be recognized as such). So, we will continue to shed light where it's possible, and folks like myself will continue to attempt to create bridges between the white community (i.e. I'm white... BFD) and the communities disenfranchised by bigotry. It's instructive to realize, that "white trash", or those whites not in possession of money and power, are no more dear to the corporate elite who exercise nearly absolute money and power, than are the black and Hispanic and gay communities who are more typically known as the victims of this bigotry. As Malcolm realized near the end of his life, it's really more about socioeconomic class, and that it's really about the rich and powerful remaining so, rather than a "whites first" thing being perpetrated from the top. I'm waiting for the non elite white people all across this country to realize they're getting shafted just as much as the black and other "minority" communities, and hopefully, as this realization dawns upon these people, they'll realize that the political agendas that tend to cause problems for "minorities" are also the same strategies, put forth by the same people that have been holding down these non wealthy, non powerful white folks. Currently, the message is that the loss of jobs, to take an example, is due to immigrants. What it is really due to is higher salaries for the corporate elite, who will just as willingly do away with the jobs of poor white workers as they would for poor Black or Hispanic workers. If there is a realization amongst us all that we all have a common enemy, and that our common enemy is also an enemy of our Constitution, we'll start to make some progress, but for now these elite have happily caused us to bicker amongst ourselves, which fairly ensures that we'll not be able to amass the numbers, money, or power to upset their strangle hold on wealth and power in America today. However, should we realize (those of us who don't already) what is *REALLY* going on, it's entirely possible that we could change this 'with a quickness'... [remember that song...? Michael Cooper, ex of confunkshun...]. So I'll keep talking... and hope you do the same! -=j=- -- ======================================================== http://buchu.eit.com:8888/ ======================================================== -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJcRkwAAAEEANoOMXed+AYlxZ+W+wwh4Y0k5RXWOchD61yfX+xWyK4RyHqk t56t2fugPdY8EhRWr09meMsX1ijSslsK3IIIGm/5/gKzH09GJRLJOWW+ynpXRxtb /BErcstAMthUzEC1ZMJg1Mdg0rMPuu0WHjU0ZnhkY+fTUg+nNU4AahBXYf+RAAUT tBktPWphY2s9LSA8amFja0B0d2F4eC5jb20+iQCVAwUQMlxGTE4AahBXYf+RAQFW wQP9FVMu+L/Z/URQye2RoWLtUDNvIdsc7pQVbhk60qKamrIsuPtUG6FYeFhOAMkp GgG0FZxXsawUQp/v9QbcaPIacDn1QI/dDHnon7WRO/5ShkLCA8inWpcCwNduZu4H wMD0FnPAg9BYXBExwxOaHyD86IqVnnMnYbDuq9ABNTpNGaQ= =vucK -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- ---End of forwarded mail from ("-=jack=-") -- ======================================================== http://buchu.eit.com:8888/ ======================================================== -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJcRkwAAAEEANoOMXed+AYlxZ+W+wwh4Y0k5RXWOchD61yfX+xWyK4RyHqk t56t2fugPdY8EhRWr09meMsX1ijSslsK3IIIGm/5/gKzH09GJRLJOWW+ynpXRxtb /BErcstAMthUzEC1ZMJg1Mdg0rMPuu0WHjU0ZnhkY+fTUg+nNU4AahBXYf+RAAUT tBktPWphY2s9LSA8amFja0B0d2F4eC5jb20+iQCVAwUQMlxGTE4AahBXYf+RAQFW wQP9FVMu+L/Z/URQye2RoWLtUDNvIdsc7pQVbhk60qKamrIsuPtUG6FYeFhOAMkp GgG0FZxXsawUQp/v9QbcaPIacDn1QI/dDHnon7WRO/5ShkLCA8inWpcCwNduZu4H wMD0FnPAg9BYXBExwxOaHyD86IqVnnMnYbDuq9ABNTpNGaQ= =vucK -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 10:12:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA08621; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:12:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA08605; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA13058 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:12:14 -0800 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199611071812.KAA13058@trix.cisco.com> Subject: Charity presents Discovery (BSP) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:12:14 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk When: Saturday, November 9th. Noon till dark Where: By the Children's Discovery Museum in downtown San Jose. Corner of San Carlos and Woz Way. This is a free, all ages party. We've had a party here before and had no problems. For more info call the VM (408) 881-0567. Also, watch for our next party in early December. :) j Directions from San Francisco: Take 101S to Guadalupe Pkwy (87). Take Guadalupe through a number of stop lights unti it turns back into a highway Take the San Carlos, Park Ave exit. Go through the first light and turn left at the second light onto San Carlos. The museum is on your right just after you go under the overpass. Directions from East Bay: 680S turns into 280N Take the Bird Ave exit Turn right(?) Go one or two stop lights to San Carlos. Turn right The museum is on your right just after you go under the overpass From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 10:33:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA11623; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA11272; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from shamini@localhost) by alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA04931 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:33:01 -0800 From: Shamini Jain Message-Id: <199611071833.KAA04931@alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov> Subject: My only post on 209... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:33:01 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm not going to bother spouting my opinion on the whole issure since y'all are doing such a great job :-) ...just wanted to pass along some of the realities that are happening with its passing... this is from my boyfriend at UCSanta Cruz, whose whole family was trying to convince me why 209 was a good thing... > Oh yeah, I forgot to say, I know how bad it is that 209 passed. > Not only is affirmative action affected, but lots of other things. For > one this means that the Women's Center will be closing down > here among other things. Here's the UCSC's Women's Center's self-description: Women's Center Serves as an advocate for women and women's rights for undergraduate or graduate students, faculty, staff, or community women. The center offers campus and community referral services, forms, space for art exhibits and discussion groups, conferences and workshops on issues dealing with sexism, racism, ageism, homophobia, and other discriminatory attitudes and proactices which hinder the advancement of women in society. The center has a small circulating resource library, and is the contact for the Chancellor's Committee on the Status of Women. Maybe some of you are thinking, "so what", but I just thought it was a bummer that a center that works to fight discrimination (which, unfortunately, does exist still on many levels) is being shut down by a supposed "anti-discrimination" proposition. shamini From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 10:48:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA15607; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA14945; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBCC97.E2D357D0@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:39:00 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: You show me yours, I'll show you mine! (Tax Facts) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:27:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Kerry wrote: > Um, the top 10% of the population has 90% of the wealth, but only pays 67% > of the taxes. The top 1% has 40% of the wealth. Tell us some more about > irness, please. > Peace for the post-election dance floor, > Kerry Where did you get these figures? I've got LOTS of data to back up mine! >From the Walls Street Journal 1/16/96 page A20 Income Share of Share of Average Group Total Taxes Total Income Tax Rate ---------------------- --------------------- -------------------- ---- ------------- Top 1% 28.8 % 13.8% 27.7% Top 5% 47.3% 27.8% 22.6% Top 10% 58.8% 39.1% 20.0% Top 25% 79.2% 62.6% 16.8% Top 50% 95.2% 85.1% 14.8% Bottom 50% 4.8% 14.9% 4.3% The point of all this is point out that when people claim that the "rich" aren't paying their "fair share" one can see that the top 5% already pay almost HALF of all the income taxes. Fairness can be debated! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 11:31:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA20628; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:31:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA20619; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:31:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [206.15.69.47] (sf1-ppp47.well.com [206.15.69.47]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.6/8.7.5) with SMTP id LAA04525 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:31:02 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: leftjab@mail.well.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:42:57 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: leftjab@well.com (leftjab) Subject: (NRR) Re: You show me yours, I'll show you mine! (Tax Facts) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Jim wrote about Kerry's post: > Where did you get these figures? I've got LOTS of data to back up > mine! Kerry gave statistics about wealth, and you gave stats about income. Income doesn't equal wealth -- income is what people earn in a year, and wealth measures what people own. the reason why rich people have a higher percentage of wealth than income is that for the very poor, a much higher proportion of their income goes into living expenses, not purchasing real estate & stocks. this is the main reason to support progressive taxation as well -- if someone only earns $15,000 year, they need every penny more than someone who earns $150,000. even with respect to income, the u.s. now has the most uneven income distribution amongst the richest industrialized nations (this wasn't the case 20 years ago), and the highest level of child poverty. the bottom 50% make only 14.9% of the income, and i don't begrudge their lower tax rate a bit. i also wonder what the WSJ is basing it's figures on -- do they include sales taxes, for instance, which hurt the poor disproportionately? leftjab From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 11:45:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA22064; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:45:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA22057; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:45:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from 205.184.16.230 (sfo-ca35-06.ix.netcom.com [205.184.16.230]) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA08441 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:44:55 -0800 Message-ID: <32824D33.11D9@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 12:57:23 -0800 From: Dan Capriles Reply-To: c9d@ix.netcom.com Organization: Cloud Nine Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: SFWaves! (LOL-related) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Starchild wrote: > > Dear Fwends, > > My computer tells me that on Tue, 5 Nov 1996, jonas j. robledo shared (in > part): > > > "wave on, wave on"-elmer fudd > > Somehow, I like the idea of this on my bumper! Or how about: > > "Wave on, you wascally wavers!" or even: "I'd wather be waving!" I like "i'd wather be waving"!! or how about..."i'm a waver" or "honk if u like waves" :) Micron ps i also like the LUAH idea.. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 11:53:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA22895; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:53:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA22882; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:53:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from 205.184.16.230 (sfo-ca35-06.ix.netcom.com [205.184.16.230]) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA08962 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:52:27 -0800 Message-ID: <32824EF7.52B6@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 13:04:55 -0800 From: Dan Capriles Reply-To: c9d@ix.netcom.com Organization: Cloud Nine Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR: Paging marshal villarosa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Sorry to take up the bandwith kids.......but my last computer went down and took all my e-mail addees with it. :P Marshal i lost your info. could u please give it to me again? Peas, Micron From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 12:15:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA25477; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:15:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from twaxx.twaxx.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA25274; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:15:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by twaxx.twaxx.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) id MAA01591; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:00:46 -0800 From: "-=jack=-" Message-Id: <9611071200.ZM1589@twaxx.com> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:00:42 -0800 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: geoffw@v-site.net, jasong@eit.com, jem@sunsite.unc.edu, mayer@netcom.com, ses@tipper.oit.unc.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: this pretty much sums up the situation, IMHO Cc: jack@twaxx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Race relations in this country are at a particularly divisive point. Fissures between blacks and whites appear nowhere near closure. On top of that, many people of color right now are feeling besieged -- from anti-affirmative action and anti-immigrant propositions, a Republican-dominated Congress, new welfare legislation and the rise of the Christian right. from: http://www.sjmercury.com/drugs/postscript1005b.htm ------------------- This is a small excerpt from the article on the CIA/Contra drug thing, which, I was noticing, was updated yesterday with even more stuff. You might check it out, if interested, it's at: http://www.sjmercury.com/drugs/postscript/index.htm -=j=- -- ======================================================== http://buchu.eit.com:8888/ ======================================================== -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJcRkwAAAEEANoOMXed+AYlxZ+W+wwh4Y0k5RXWOchD61yfX+xWyK4RyHqk t56t2fugPdY8EhRWr09meMsX1ijSslsK3IIIGm/5/gKzH09GJRLJOWW+ynpXRxtb /BErcstAMthUzEC1ZMJg1Mdg0rMPuu0WHjU0ZnhkY+fTUg+nNU4AahBXYf+RAAUT tBktPWphY2s9LSA8amFja0B0d2F4eC5jb20+iQCVAwUQMlxGTE4AahBXYf+RAQFW wQP9FVMu+L/Z/URQye2RoWLtUDNvIdsc7pQVbhk60qKamrIsuPtUG6FYeFhOAMkp GgG0FZxXsawUQp/v9QbcaPIacDn1QI/dDHnon7WRO/5ShkLCA8inWpcCwNduZu4H wMD0FnPAg9BYXBExwxOaHyD86IqVnnMnYbDuq9ABNTpNGaQ= =vucK -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 12:15:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA25489; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:15:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA25426; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:15:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id MAA22486; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:15:24 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:15:24 -0800 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199611072015.MAA22486@netcom17.netcom.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Audio Impact (RR!!!) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Sorry to post rave related material, folks. I'll keep it short, I promise ;) Audio Impact: I had just way too much dancing last night! I've been dying to hear some good, hard jungle for a while now, and last night certainly provided that fix. For the most part, when I've heard jungle at parties, it has usually been of the softer variety... I had no idea who the DJ's were by sight or sound, and I really couldn't tell when the turntables would change hands, either. But to tell the truth, I didn't care! I was too busy pounding my body down to the ground :) As usual, I heard the sounds of jungle, and it just _moved_ me, without my control or knowledge. Only jungle (and Goa) can make me forget about what I'm doing and where I am. The music at times was noisy, almost creepy and industrial sounding (in a jungle kind of way), which was fine by me. I love the more melodic sounds we get in SF, but every now and then I just need something hard and destructive. But then, I'm an ex-industrial head anyway, so it's not surprising. The vibe was kind of weird; for the most part people were cool, having fun etc. But the presence of alcohol at the party brought along its negative effects. My major complaint were people who didn't understand the concept of respecting someone else's personal space. There were many times that I would be dancing, and then some large human would *stand* right in front of me, preventing any further motion. How irritating! But instead of complaining, I eventually decided to assert my territory (yes, it was like *that* at times), and using as much room as I needed. But the people who were clearly ravers/jungle people were very cool, and there was a really fun energy in the place. So for the most part, it was a great vibe with patches of crap sprinkled throughout... But then, that's just the "bar" element creeping in, so it's all good :) Anyway, I'm really glad this is a weekly! Our city really needs more jungle, and many thanks to the B.A.S.S. crew and Hunab Ku for helping to make it happen. Now back to your regularly scheduled ranting... Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com saturn5@cyborganic.net | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-626-5074 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 12:25:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA26630; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:25:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA26612; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id MAA25641; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:27:40 -0800 Message-Id: <199611072027.MAA25641@precipice.v-site.net> From: "Geoff White" To: "Starchild" Cc: , Subject: Re: (NRR) Geoff's history lesson Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:25:30 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Starchild > To: Geoff White > Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com; jack@twaxx.com > Subject: Re: (NRR) Geoff's history lesson > Date: Thursday, November 07, 1996 1:45 AM > > > Dear SFRavefriends, > > Although Geoff clearly has a good deal of knowledge of history, > I think dividing people on the basis of race, however good your intentions > are, remains as bad an idea now as it ever was. We are not talking about dividing people we are taling about equal oppertunity in the work force. > And although I love San Francisco and am proud to live here, I > don't think San Franciscans have a monopoly on wisdom. 8) Also, racism > occurs in many colors. Would you care to elaborate here? > And speaking of colors, classifying people on this basis breaks > down very quickly. If your mother was Irish and your dad was Nigerian, > does that make you black? How about if you're 1/4 black? 1/8th? Well, these classifications were made by the owners of plantations years ago, they were mostly instantiated into law in the southern states. The truth of the matter is that there are very few people in the south who are of totally pure european descent, but they then the rules don't have to be fair when you control the power base, this is the crux of the biscuit. > If we're all descended from Africans some millions of years ago, > as the archaeological record seems to show, does that make all of us > people of color? Don't be stupid, it makes us all descendents of Africa. As far as people of color it too is subjective. POC is more or less a term used to lable the group of people who are discriminated against by the powerbase (which happens to be euro-centric) simply because of their skin tone (generally darker). > Another thing about history is that it doesn't break down along > neat racial lines. Many southern and eastern Europeans were long > discriminated against in this country, people that today would generally Hmm I wonder if it was because many southern and eastern europeans are darker then the northern ones... > be called "white" (what a catch-all term for such an ethnically diverse > group of people!) Indians fought and killed other Indians, albeit not on > such a massive organized scale as settlers did later, and blacks in Africa > were slave traders and sold other blacks into slavery. > Although only blacks were slaves in America (not counting > numerous smaller scale enslavements of Chinese in Chinese-run sweatshops > and the like), looking back throughout history, every race has had its > share of slavery. Indeed, people used to believe slavery was > indispensible to civilization! Now we know better, that it is in fact > antithetical to civilization... Is this so, 200 years ago black people in this company enjoyed full employment :) we worked without wages but all was provided, now not just blacks work on the plantation but instead of a sack of corn meal you get a little piece of paper and you have to go out and buy your own damn corn meal! > Looking at the numbers Geoff brought up, if he's correct that only > white men over 30 could vote (and originally you had to be a property > owner, too), keep in mind that the average lifespan back then was > considerably less, under 60 is my guess. So the equivalent today would be > for you not to be allowed to vote until age 35 or 40! Please limit the discussion to the US or A. Indeed I am fully aware of european history in this matter. but we are discussing the issues on this continent. > Before this, in the age of monarchy, you could only "vote" (i.e. > have a voice in making government-level decisions) if you were a monarch, > until the Magna Carta in 1215 when this right began to be expanded to > include the nobility. > Therefore in the historical time scale Geoff presented, it is not > really white men who had control for the longest period, but royalty -- > for thousands of years, before white men as a group (and only a very few > members of that group, not all white men) became empowered. Actually you are right as far as europe goes, as many of you who have seen my post in the past know, I talk about Dominator culture not European culture as being the culprets. The first thing that this culture did was to murder all of the Europeans that disagreed with it. It raised it's ugly head in force in the 1930 but is still lurking around. But we digress, please keep the topic on the good ol US of A, land of the free and home of the brave. > So I guess to be fair, we need to figure out who has royal blood, and > then give everyone else some sort of special affirmative action > preference. > Obviously this is ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than the idea > that you should get special consideration on the basis of race, imho. How about special consideration on the basis of sex. Are you saying that women who make up 51% of the US population just don't exhibit appropriate leadership tendencies? Why is it that White women don't have an equal share in the spoils? Is the syetem fair to them as it stands now? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 12:29:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA27074; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:29:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from twaxx.twaxx.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA27025; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by twaxx.twaxx.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) id MAA01874; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:16:03 -0800 From: "-=jack=-" Message-Id: <9611071216.ZM1872@twaxx.com> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:16:00 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Geoff White" "Re: (NRR) Geoff's history lesson" (Nov 7, 12:25pm) References: <199611072027.MAA25641@precipice.v-site.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: "Geoff White" , "Starchild" Subject: Re: (NRR) Geoff's history lesson Cc: jack@twaxx.com, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk good points, Geoff. -=J=- -- ======================================================== http://buchu.eit.com:8888/ ======================================================== -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJcRkwAAAEEANoOMXed+AYlxZ+W+wwh4Y0k5RXWOchD61yfX+xWyK4RyHqk t56t2fugPdY8EhRWr09meMsX1ijSslsK3IIIGm/5/gKzH09GJRLJOWW+ynpXRxtb /BErcstAMthUzEC1ZMJg1Mdg0rMPuu0WHjU0ZnhkY+fTUg+nNU4AahBXYf+RAAUT tBktPWphY2s9LSA8amFja0B0d2F4eC5jb20+iQCVAwUQMlxGTE4AahBXYf+RAQFW wQP9FVMu+L/Z/URQye2RoWLtUDNvIdsc7pQVbhk60qKamrIsuPtUG6FYeFhOAMkp GgG0FZxXsawUQp/v9QbcaPIacDn1QI/dDHnon7WRO/5ShkLCA8inWpcCwNduZu4H wMD0FnPAg9BYXBExwxOaHyD86IqVnnMnYbDuq9ABNTpNGaQ= =vucK -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 12:36:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA27984; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rho.ben2.ucla.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA27963; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from kjde.sfsu.edu (slip-236.sfsu.edu [130.212.1.236]) by rho.ben2.ucla.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA47362 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:36:00 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961107203909.00699e00@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> X-Sender: jonasr@pop.ben2.ucla.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 12:39:09 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "jonas j. robledo" Subject: 2 cents on 209..... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk my opinion is that although the spirit of 209 is good "end discrimination", it relies on the assumption that merit based hiring/acceptence to school is unbiased. all tests are biased. it is widely held that people do better on tests that were written by people of their own ethnic backround or experience. timothy leary proved this...while he was incarcerated for a fu**kked up marijuana charge, he was administered a psychological test to see what kind of danger he posed to society. based on the results of this test, he was transfferred to a minimum security prison which he promptly escaped from and he ventured to mexico (he wrote the test himself while he was at Stanford he he hee) moral: you can't rely on tests to tell you very much b/c it depends who writes them. does anyone experience this phenomena: while white people are becomming a minority? less than 50% (not really a minority b/c they still far outnumber each individual group) they still comprise about 85% of the corporate spots at my job. is this b/c they are more qualified. possible solution: base ethnic/gender hiring process on percentages generated from the last census. i'm sure that the level quality of employee will not drop. this is b/c PEOPLE are qualified b/c they are people, not b/c they went to this private school or that. i'm not dissin' private schools, on the contrary, i wish every child could afford private school b/c of the excellent advantages it provides. sadly, this is not the case. letting my logic down for a second and speaking from my irrational heart.... if i was asian i would be mortified by prop 209. although not every asian group benefits from affirmative action directly, i would consider the fact that with more people of color in higher positions, the easier it would be to break thru the glass ceiling that consistantly denies QUALIFIED asian people top spots in the corporate world....... if i was a women i would feel normal b/c women always get the short end of the deal whatever color. if i was black then 209 would say to me that it's all good and fair. nevermind the last four hundred years, it's all good now right? bullshit since i am chicano prop 209 erases the fact that the u.s. generated most of its wealth in the last 100 years from land that the u.s. annexxed from you know who if i was white, i wouldn't trip off affirmative action, i would still get mines b/c i am qualified and nothing will ever stop me. look people, i know that affirmative action is very flawed, but it is necessary to promote numbers which go toward reflecting the percentages in the general population. just like welfare, it is vital to our nation. you wouldn't want to scrap welfare w/out putting something else in its place would you? if you answered yes to the last question then you probably still think that jesus was white and i don't want to talk to you anyways.........i still love all you peoples.... when asked whether he was a raver or a clubber ringo answered, "i'ma rubber." .........1duv (no, not the brittish tekno group from a couple years back), the other jonas, the other jonas j., ah shuks, jonas joaquin robledo, turntable philosopher From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 12:46:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA28991; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from dons.ac.usfca.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA28979; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:46:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611072046.MAA28979@taz.hyperreal.com> Subject: NRR: need hardware advice To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 12:37:45 -0800 (PST) From: reicja00 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear all, I'm considering upgrading my computer system, part of which includes getting a new motherboard & CPU. I am currently looking at two options, either getting a cyrix P166 or a Pentium 90 that has an overdrive chip on it bringing it up to a Pentium 150. So I have a few questions: 1) What speed does the motherboard for a Pentium 90 run at, 60 or 66MHz? 2) How does the speed of an overdrive Pentium 150 compare with that of an actual Pentium 150 chip? 3) I know that cyrix chips are pretty weak on their FPU, and I'm going to be doing some things that involve 3D graphics. What kind of speed loss can I expect with a cyrix chip, and would the overdriven Pentium 150 end up being faster for things like that? Thanks a bunch, Mr. Jake From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 13:45:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA04874; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:45:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA04776; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:44:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id NAA09486; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:42:46 -0800 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id NAA21003; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:42:34 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:42:33 -0800 (PST) From: Yvonne Yan Sham-Shackleton Subject: R To: karma jinpa zangpo cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <32792EAA.1D57@scruznet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 14:06:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA07255; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:06:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from isp1.isp.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA07246; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:06:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from WS4 (sc174.isp.net [204.139.9.174]) by mail1.isp.net (8.7.6/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA25581; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:07:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32825D41.58CA@isp.net> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 14:05:53 -0800 From: Gioni Pasquinelli Reply-To: pasque@isp.net Organization: Ben Mozzetti, Jr. CPA X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "jonas j. robledo" CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: 2 cents on 209..... References: <1.5.4.32.19961107203909.00699e00@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk jonas j. robledo wrote: > all tests are biased. it is widely held that people do better on tests that > were written by people of their own ethnic backround or experience. I have heard this as well but I don't know of any hard facts or stats. The following Timothy Leary example does not fit this criteria as somehow who actually made the test rather just having someone of the same ethnicity make the test. Of course someone who makes the test is going to do well on that test when they take it later. > > timothy leary proved this...while he was incarcerated for a fu**kked up > marijuana charge, he was administered a psychological test to see what kind > of danger he posed to society. based on the results of this test, he was > transfferred to a minimum security prison which he promptly escaped from and > he ventured to mexico (he wrote the test himself while he was at Stanford > he he hee) > > moral: you can't rely on tests to tell you very much b/c it depends who > writes them. It also depends on who takes them, like people who get test anxiety or who have some learning disabilities. Though lots of universities now recognize these deficiencies in the testing process and make arrangements for people with these problems, like giving them more time and such. > possible solution: base ethnic/gender hiring process on percentages > generated from the last census. This would be a quota system and there are lots of problems when you start having to meet quotas. I am just saying this as my opinion, I don't have anything to back it up. > i'm sure that the level quality of employee > will not drop. this is b/c PEOPLE are qualified b/c they are people, not > b/c they went to this private school or that. i'm not dissin' private > schools, on the contrary, i wish every child could afford private school b/c > of the excellent advantages it provides. sadly, this is not the case. People are just people but that doesn't make them qualified to be the president of the US or anything. And private schools aren't all that you seem to think they are either. If a person is intelligent I think they will do just as well in a public school as in a private...(atleast I have come out alright :) ) > if i was a women i would feel normal b/c women always get the short end of > the deal whatever color. not true, white women are the single biggest benefactors of affirmative action by far. Again I don't have any stats to back this up, but it is a well known phenomena. > if i was white, i wouldn't trip off affirmative action, i would still get > mines b/c i am qualified and nothing will ever stop me. Just ask a lot of white business men that contract with the government or other firms that sign contracts using affirmative action guidelines. I am sure they will let you know that affirmative action has destroyed or last hurt their business quite a bit. Now that government isn't supposed to base contracts on minority owned companies they are going to be hurt. So either way someone will be hurt. > look people, i know that affirmative action is very flawed, but it is > necessary to promote numbers which go toward reflecting the percentages in > the general population. The best affirmative action would be based on economic situation and not ethnicity. If I am poor and I do good on tests or in school or whatever then yeah I probably should be hired over the rich person who got about the same score on the test. He had more resources available than me yet he didn't do any better so yes I should be hired over him. This is the kind of affirmative action I would like to see put into place (and for once I agree with Bob Dole who also said he would like an economically based affirmative action plan) Peace, Gioni From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 14:45:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA11203; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA11188; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:45:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (arthurc@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA14653 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:45:13 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: arthurc owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:45:12 -0800 (PST) From: Arthur Chandler X-Sender: arthurc@pluto To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Affirmative Action for SFR In-Reply-To: <32825D41.58CA@isp.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I call this the King-Brown-King Solution. Easy to formulate, harder (but not impossible) to implement: 1) "Can't we all just get along?" (Rodney King) 2) "Any problem in the world can be solved by dancing." (James Brown) 3) "Let us move on." (ML King) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 14:46:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA11334; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:46:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA11291; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:46:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:49:03 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:47:41 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Joe Rice Subject: BSP - Phonix Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Phonix tonight at the Top on Haight. Residents: Chris (OST) Marcus (Hedquarters) Guests: Tomas (Hedquarters) Joe Rice (Mad) This is a new weekly techno shindig... Joe (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 14:49:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA11630; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA11613; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:49:48 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id RAA13505; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:49:41 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03039; Thu, 7 Nov 96 14:49:40 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 28274FB0; Thu, 7 Nov 96 15:47:07 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:42:36 -0800 Message-Id: <28274FB0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Weshouldcutgovernmentwaste(nrr)andincreaseserviceswhilewe... To: SuperDuperRavers, wpenna@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk controlpeoplesmindsbymakingwatchingtelevisionfor8hoursadaymandatorythi swayeveryonewillbeloyalconsumersandfallintoplacelikegoodlittlesheepand wereallycareabouttheamericanpeoplethat'swhywearetakingallyourmoneyaway andspendingitallandwhenyougetoldandgreyandyouhavenomoneyandthereisnomo resocialsecuritythegovernmentwillsay"WELLWHYDIDN'TYOUSAVEYOURMONEY,OH LITTLE SHEEP?" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 14:50:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA11721; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:50:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA11713; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:50:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy1.ba.best.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA17380 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26447 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:45:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:45:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611072245.OAA26447@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: You show me yours, I'll show you mine! (Tax Facts) X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Jim Thompson wrote: >>From the Walls Street Journal 1/16/96 page A20 > > Income Share of Share of Average > Group Total Taxes Total Income Tax Rate >------------- -------------- ------------- -------------- > >Top 1% 28.8 % 13.8% 27.7% >Top 5% 47.3% 27.8% 22.6% >Top 10% 58.8% 39.1% 20.0% >Top 25% 79.2% 62.6% 16.8% >Top 50% 95.2% 85.1% 14.8% >Bottom 50% 4.8% 14.9% 4.3% If you really think that these figures represent what is actually paid out, you are badly deluded. There are so many tax shelters and exemptions, many of which cannot be realized by the middle and lower income citizens, that the rich in reality pay hardly anything. The WSJ figures are based on tax tables, not on reality. S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 15:00:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA12713; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:00:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA12615; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:59:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id OAA01255; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:57:50 -0800 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id OAA23334; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:00:33 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:00:33 -0800 (PST) From: Yvonne Yan Sham-Shackleton Subject: Re: Systematic Racism...this happens everyday! To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I just want to say I hear ya. I hear ya. I know, as an Asain Woman I live it every day. I am sick off people telling me that I am too sensitve, and that I should just deal with it. I quit Socal raves because of that. So since noone backed me up there, I wanted to put in my voice on the topic. I am sad 209 won, I am dissappointed by California. Just to make this rave related, I am sad to see how raving became more and more white as the years have gone by. What happenned? That is another topic that I think I am too busy to get into. Maybe some day...... Nailvarnish From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 15:04:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA13133; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:04:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA13110; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:03:50 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10629; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:03:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:03:44 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: blkadder@value.net To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: Re: YES/NO ON 209? In-Reply-To: <199611071739.JAA12281@netcom17.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > Perhaps you were or are a racist, and need to redress your sins, however I > > am not, nor have ever been to the best of my knowledge. Why attempt to > > hold *me* accountable for actions which I condemn and have had nothing to > > do with? > > Just because you are an immigrant does not make you immune from this > country's jhistory. You and others come over here, you had better be > ready to accept the good with the bad. Fact is we ALL relive the sins of > our fathers. A company poluutes for decades, goes out of biz, people > forget they were there, build upon polluted land, and the children get > sick, are malformed, or die. The sins of the father are ALWAYS visited > upon the son. One should take time to undo the sins of the father. Else > they be visited upon us endlessly. I will not accept responsibility for things that I have not done. If you chose to do so, that is your perogative, however, I do not wish to be forced to because you think I should. > The typical immigrant stance is "I had nothing to do with it.". Yeah, > neither did I. But I still live with the vestiges of racism every day. > And they are not vestiges, they are real. When you come here, you get it > all, you cannot say you like a,b,& c but have nothing to do with the rest > of the alphabet. That is not what this country is all about...we are ALL > in this together. We are all part and play a part in the mold history > has set for us. Agreed. > > > > Again, you are incorrect. I have given specific examples of this. Persons > > seeking employment for the Dept. of Corrections are given extra points on > > tests if they are of specific national origin. It should be obvious that > > this can result in the selection of less qualified canidates for a given > > position. I also remember a similar situation with persons seeking > > employment with the U.S. Postal service, however I am not positive(I took > > the test several years ago.) > > And again you are incorrect. That is not Affirmative Action. That is a > quaota system which is illegal UNLESS it is court ordered. And under > court order you still have to get QUALIFIED candidates. > > Get the facts straight. No, this avoids being a quota system. Reread what I have stated is going on. People are getting extra points on tests. This is not the same as 15% of employees must be such and such a race and so on. I have the facts straight, however you simply refuse to acknowledge them. > > That is not what this country is about. Don't want to participate, > recent immigrant? I invite you to go back home. I don't know where you get the impression that I am an immigrant. I am not. However my background is not one of rich landed gentry, but of working class immigrants(a few generations ago) and a bit of Sioux. Thanks for the invitation though. > > > People are worried about job security and want > > > someone to blame it on. Enter your sacrificial lamb: immigrants, > > > minorities, and women. > > > > "People?" Which people? Let's be clear about this, shall we? In a society > > where there are more women than men? In a society where "minority" groups > > outnumber whites? > > > > Sorry charlie, whites are still the majority, even in CA by a slim > margin, but not for long. Not for long at all. So, what? You dream of a day when there are more former minority groups than whites? What for? What difference does it make? > > Let me personalize it for you: > > > > I voted for 209. I am not stupid, have not been brainwashed by the > > "conservatives." I do not have a position of power, nor am I the member of > > any "Good 'ol Boys Network"(although I hear they get great health club > > discounts). Are you saying that I am a racist because I do not agree with > > you? > > > > No, it just so happens that many racists supported 209 as well. If > you're comfortable with that, then fine. Nope, it doesn't make you a > racist, but you choose to support that which the most undesireable > support. If that's who you're aligned with then fine. It's your life, > your vote, your choice. I never want to be aligned with the likes of > Duke, Helms, or the other rabid segregationist Thurmond. Or I could be aligned with other hate mongers and racists, like Louis Farrakahn(sp?), or Jessie Jackson? Sorry John their are undesierables on both sides. > Man, our historical view is really short. > > Funny, my DAD couldn't vite when he was 18. Why? HE WAS BLACK! At that is and was wrong. You can vote, and I assume did. All I see from this is an inheritance of resentment: "I have rights but my ancestors didn't, so I am going to be mad about that." > The real question is what do you do about hundreds of years of > discrimination...just pass laws, or take decisive action. What do you > propose to ensure everyone gets a chance? Do you feel those opps are > already there? The government cannot legislate resentment, ignorance, and misconception away. You can hower legislate these things into being, through discriminatory laws. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 15:06:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA13326; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:06:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wrs.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA13316; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from blackcomb ([147.11.45.27]) by mail.wrs.com with SMTP id AA12418 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:05:48 -0800 Message-Id: <32826A70.4644@mail.wrs.com> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 15:02:08 -0800 From: George Jimenez Reply-To: georgej@wrs.com Organization: Wind River Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: 2 cents on 209..... References: <1.5.4.32.19961107203909.00699e00@pop.ben2.ucla.edu> <32825D41.58CA@isp.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Gioni Pasquinelli wrote: > > jonas j. robledo wrote: > > all tests are biased. it is widely held that people do better on tests that > > were written by people of their own ethnic backround or experience. > > I have heard this as well but I don't know of any hard facts or stats. > The following Timothy Leary example does not fit this criteria as > somehow who actually made the test rather just having someone of the > same ethnicity make the test. Of course someone who makes the test is > going to do well on that test when they take it later. > > > > > timothy leary proved this...while he was incarcerated for a fu**kked up > > marijuana charge, he was administered a psychological test to see what kind > > of danger he posed to society. based on the results of this test, he was > > transfferred to a minimum security prison which he promptly escaped from and > > he ventured to mexico (he wrote the test himself while he was at Stanford > > he he hee) > > > > moral: you can't rely on tests to tell you very much b/c it depends who > > writes them. > > It also depends on who takes them, like people who get test anxiety or > who have some learning disabilities. Though lots of universities now > recognize these deficiencies in the testing process and make > arrangements for people with these problems, like giving them more time > and such. > > > possible solution: base ethnic/gender hiring process on percentages > > generated from the last census. > > This would be a quota system and there are lots of problems when you > start having to meet quotas. I am just saying this as my opinion, I > don't have anything to back it up. > > > i'm sure that the level quality of employee > > will not drop. this is b/c PEOPLE are qualified b/c they are people, not > > b/c they went to this private school or that. i'm not dissin' private > > schools, on the contrary, i wish every child could afford private school b/c > > of the excellent advantages it provides. sadly, this is not the case. > > People are just people but that doesn't make them qualified to be the > president of the US or anything. And private schools aren't all that > you seem to think they are either. If a person is intelligent I think > they will do just as well in a public school as in a private...(atleast > I have come out alright :) ) > > > if i was a women i would feel normal b/c women always get the short end of > > the deal whatever color. > > not true, white women are the single biggest benefactors of affirmative > action by far. Again I don't have any stats to back this up, but it is > a well known phenomena. > > > if i was white, i wouldn't trip off affirmative action, i would still get > > mines b/c i am qualified and nothing will ever stop me. > > Just ask a lot of white business men that contract with the government > or other firms that sign contracts using affirmative action guidelines. > I am sure they will let you know that affirmative action has destroyed > or last hurt their business quite a bit. Now that government isn't > supposed to base contracts on minority owned companies they are going to > be hurt. So either way someone will be hurt. > > > look people, i know that affirmative action is very flawed, but it is > > necessary to promote numbers which go toward reflecting the percentages in > > the general population. > > The best affirmative action would be based on economic situation and not > ethnicity. If I am poor and I do good on tests or in school or whatever > then yeah I probably should be hired over the rich person who got about > the same score on the test. He had more resources available than me yet > he didn't do any better so yes I should be hired over him. This is the > kind of affirmative action I would like to see put into place (and for > once I agree with Bob Dole who also said he would like an economically > based affirmative action plan) > > Peace, > Gioni The best affirmative action should IDEALLY be based on a combination of both economics AND race because, unfortunately, the numbers are disproportianate. WHITES are still OVERREPRESENTED while minority populations increase. What kind of fairness is that? and why? because the majority have limited access to resouces that others have. I know I did. I made the most of it due to affirmative action. It gives people the chance to prove themselves as being COMPETENT. No, I was not insulted that I got into school through affirmative action. I KNOW I studied in high school but I also had to work so my scores might've suffered while many priveleged kids had fewer worries or time constraints and could concentrate on school more. In college, I NEVER cheated and I graduated with a B+ average. AM I "UNDERQUALIFIED"? NO! I did better than my more privileged counterparts. Giving these opportunities to people is the best investment towards EQUALITY. Wouldn't you agree that's NOBLE? WE DON'T HAVE EQUALITY YET SO LET'S NOT DELUDE OURSELVES INTO THINKING WE DO. We must correct the mistakes our government has made in the past, even if it is a little unfair to SOME, it would still benefit the country on a larger scale. SOME affirmative action is better than NO affirmative action. Everyone stop thinking of THEMSELVES personally and think about how inner-city school kids will NEVER have the same shot at, say, getting into an Ivy League, than the children of white upper middle-class, or even middle class for that matter. Prop 209 is saying they do. Has any one ever thought about that? Or how scary to be aligned with the same mentality as Newt Gingrich? Everything he stands for is so wacked and backwards. And no matter how you look at it, Prop. 209 is CONSERVATIVE, basically attempting to CONSERVE the ESTABLISHMENT (ie. WHITE/MALE/UPPER MIDDLE-CLASS). It's really sad. I love all people and I'm not anti-white, I swear I'm not. I have so much love in my heart but this issue is soooo important to me. It means so much for future generations. I mean no disrespect. But when we have so much diversity, then we HAVE TO have it REPRESENTED, even if it is at the expense of some, it will benefit millions. Besides, so much of the past was created at the expense of minorities. PEACE, PEACE, PEACE, PEACE......................................... G From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 15:18:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA14629; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:18:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA14618; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:18:48 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11888; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:18:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:18:34 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: blkadder@value.net To: Geoff White cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, knucklehead Subject: Re: YES/NO 209?? In-Reply-To: <199611071742.JAA24924@precipice.v-site.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Geoff White wrote: > Well that's the point, which is why I tend to support parties that exhibit a large amount of > cultural diversity (which is what it all boils down to). Raves (especially well run large raves) > have the potential to bring large numbers of different kids together in a social situation, the > friendships made here hopefully will extend into adulthood when this generation takes the reigns. > Many of the promoters that I know have very diverse organizations with many ethnic groups and > sexual persuations represented, the only thing that I believe still comes up is the place of women > in the scene, there is still a "treehouse" tendency exhibited by many of the men but it is getting > better. Yes! > It's interesting, I was riding the bus around SF yesterday doing my errands > and the effects of Prop 209 were already making themselves felt. There > was some drunk caucasion man on the back of the bus (#33 Haight no less) > with his girlfriend/wife going off about how now he can go get his job > back and not worry about no Nigger taking it. He kinda quieted down > when I moved to the back of the bus (I guess I was too big of a Nigger > to express his opinions openly too :) Some people around him were > noticibly embarrised, when he got off the bus, they started to > apologize, I said, "Well see what happens when you don't vote" Actually > this fucked up Prop was soundly defeated in the great City of San > Francisco, the ONLY county in California where the YES vote got less > than 10%. However, do you really feel that this guy was somehow a racist as a result of the passing of 209? Sounds like just another ignorant asshole who doesn't get it. > On another errand I was riding the #15 into chinatown to go to > my acupuncturist. > The bus was filled with young asia school kids and some of them were > discussing prop 209. One girl was happy that it passed because she > wanted to go to UC and before there was a limit on asians attending and > her brother didn't get in. > Before Asian numbers were decreased to let other minorites in, now since > admission is totally based on merit, guess who will be locked out > (mostly white males, OOOPS!) One girl said that she didn't want to go Why "OOPS" Geoff? Speaking for myself I voted for 209 so that all people would be viewed on their merit. If 95% of a school is Asian as a result, so be it, if they are the most qualified. So why the "OOPS?" > Actually, I think the problem is one of economics, in another 100 years at the rate that we are > going, White, Black > and Asian people will ALL be minorities in the USA, every one will be BROWN And this is a *very* important point. It is a problem of economics, and dealing with it as such transends race and sex differences. Also, I would like to thank you Geoff, in the midst of all the flamage going on, for being pretty damn level-headed about the whole issue. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 15:50:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA17639; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:50:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA17628; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:50:17 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from ce.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA29112; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:44:29 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by ce.Berkeley.EDU (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA15775; Wed, 6 Nov 96 16:45:08 -0800 X-Received: by alpha-4.ce.berkeley.edu; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/05Sep96-1208PM) id AA22337; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:42:06 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:42:06 -0800 (PST) From: "J. Cohen" To: Andy Thomas Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: 215 Rant (NRR) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > why should a sick person let themselves be gauged by the pharmaceautical > industry when they can grow their own medicine for free? pot is just like > any other plant, there's nothing "shady" about cultivating it. the clause > in 215 that allows people with prescriptions to grow their own eliminates > the need to get the drug profiteers (legal and illegal) involved. I don't > understand why you see this as a bad thing... > > andy > > > Ok don't get me wrong. Prop 215 is at least a step. What I understand of the proposition, is that a doctor can only recommend cultivating your own. What does this mean? Is this then only a verbal prescription, or is there some sort of document that clearly gives a patient the right? How is Mr/Ms Police Officer while checking out your lil garden going to verify your RIGHT to grow. The recommendation process sounds too vague. The 'shady' feel I was talking about would be a doctor telling a patient to take this drug but since its an illegal drug you have to get it or grow it at your own risk of harassment. I assume most of the people that subscribe to this list, partake in gatherings where use of this same substance is openly accepted.... Its probably still my favorite. American society doesn't openly accept weed. What if a patient is not amongst the raving community, the alternative crowd, whatever. How does this person feel when only a RECOMMENDATION is given. Meanwhile there doctor would be able to prescribe narcotics no problem that can than be picked up at the drug store. As we both probably agree, those narcotics are most likely overkill. Prop 215 is a good thing...just nowhere near what I think needs to be done. j From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 15:51:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA17787; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:51:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA17780; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:51:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id PAA11853; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:51:29 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:51:29 -0800 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199611072351.PAA11853@netcom17.netcom.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR: more tech support humor CC: inhouse@ele.uri.edu Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Some haha stuff. Steve ---- Included Message ---- Received: NOVEMBER 07, 1996 14:32 Sent: NOVEMBER 07, 1996 14:31 From: KSNYDER.US.ORACLE.COM To: team, jtien, jtjioe, ehlee, jtrumpbo Subject: Fwd: (Fwd) Fw: Sys Admin/Tech Support Humor Do some of these sound familiar? Ken ---- Included Message ---- Received: NOVEMBER 05, 1996 09:33 Sent: NOVEMBER 05, 1996 09:23 From: Lynn_Snyder@krinfo.com (Lynn Snyder) To: KSNYDER@us.oracle.cxcerpts from a Wall Street Journal article by Jim Carlton -- > > 1 Compaq is considering changing the command "Press Any Key" to "Press > Return Key" because of the flood of calls asking where the "Any" key is. > 2. AST technical support had asked to send a copy of her defective diskettes. A few days later a > letter arrived from the customer along with Xeroxed copies of the > floppies. > 5. A Dell technician advised his customer to put his troubled floppy > back in the drive and close the doorat his keyboard no > longer worked. He had cleaned it by filling up his tub with soap and > water and soaking the keyboard for a day, then removing all the keys and > washing them individually. > 9. A Dell appened when she pressed the power switch, she asked "What power > switch?" > 12. True story from a Novell NetWire SysOp: > Caller: "Hello, is this Tech Support?" > Tech: "Yes, it is. How may I help you?" > Caller: "The cup holder on my PC is broken and I am within my warranty > period. How do I go about getting that > fixed?" > Tech: "I'm sorry, but did you say a cup holder?" > Caller: "Yes, it's attached to the front of my computer." > Tech: "Please excuse me if I seem a bit stumped, It's because I the Tech Rep had to > mute the caller, because he couldn't stand it. The caller had been using > the load drawer of the CD-ROM drive as a cup holder, and snapped it off > the drive! > > > > > > > ---End of forwarded mail from Sue Ryan ---- End of Message ---- -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com saturn5@cyborganic.net | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-626-5074 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 15:59:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA18498; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:59:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA18483; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:59:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA18405; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 15:59:01 -0800 Received: from ccMail by CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA847411149; Thu, 07 Nov 96 15:56:16 PST Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 15:56:16 PST From: "Ciaran OHara" Message-Id: <9610078474.AA847411149@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR : Quayle - remember him? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk A little post-election-day humor... A selection of quotes from "I Miss Dan Quayle". --------------------------------------------------- "I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people." -- J. Danforth Quayle "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." -- J. Danforth Quayle "Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "Welcome to President Bush, Mrs. Bush, and my fellow astronauts." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe." -- Vice President Dan Quayle, 8/11/89 "What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century." -- Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/15/88 "I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change." -- Vice President Dan Quayle, 5/22/89 "One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared'." -- Vice President Dan Quayle, 12/6/89 "May our nation continue to be the beakon of hope to the world." -- The Quayles' 1989 Christmas card. [Not a beacon of literacy, though.] "Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things." -- Vice President Dan Quayle, 11/30/88 "We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "I have made good judgements in the Past. I have made good judgements in the Future." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "The future will be better tomorrow." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world." -- Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/21/88 "People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "I stand by all the misstatements that I've made." -- Vice President Dan Quayle to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/89 "We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a *part* of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a *part* of Europe." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "Public speaking is very easy." -- Vice President Dan Quayle to reporters in 10/88 "I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "I love California, I practically grew up in Phoenix." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "When I have been asked during these last weeks who caused the riots and the killing in L.A., my answer has been direct and simple: Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it." -- Vice President Dan Quayle, 5/20/92 (reported in Esquire, 8/92) "Murphy Brown is doing better than I am. At least she knows she still has a job next year." -- Vice President Dan Quayle, 8/18/92 "We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur." -- Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/22/90 "For NASA, space is still a high priority." -- Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/5/90 "Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children." -- Vice President Dan Quayle, 9/18/90 "The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Dan Quayle may or may not make." --Vice President Dan Quayle "We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made." --Vice President Dan Quayle "It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." -- Vice President Dan Quayle "[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system." -- Vice President Dan Quayle The following is an attached File item from cc:Mail. It contains information that had to be encoded to ensure successful transmission through various mail systems. To decode the file use the UUDECODE program. --------------------------------- Cut Here --------------------------------- begin 644 RFC822.TXT M4F5C96EV960Z(&9R;VT@6F]O;"Y!:7)4;W5C:"Y#3TT@8GD@0T--04E,+D%) M4E1/54-(+D-/32`H4TU44$Q)3DL@5C(N,3$@4')E4F5L96%S92`T*0T*("`@ M(#L@5V5D+"`P-B!.;W8@.38@,34Z-3`Z-#(@4%-4#0I2971U2!:;V]L+D%I4!B86YC7)E To: playdoh@cats.ucsc.edu Subject: Re: Systematic Racism...this happens everyday! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Sorry to be racially polluting your scene..this reminds me of all the shit older white people who grew up in San Francisco use to talk.."it was such a nice place to live, but now it's all Asian and black, etc...bla bla bla" but I guess they're bigots and your not? (it's ironic i sometimes get really bummed about the lack of racial diversity at some really nice u.g. parties..but there might be a more polite way to expres it than you did) Mark > > Just to make this rave related, I am sad to see how raving became more > and more white as the years have gone by. What happenned? That is > another topic that I think I am too busy to get into. Maybe some day...... > > Nailvarnish > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 16:24:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA21113; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:24:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA21031; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:23:56 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA17096; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:20:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: from scf-sl3.Berkeley.EDU (scf-sl3.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.135.131]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA23615 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:19:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:19:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611070819.AAA23615@uclink4.berkeley.edu> X-Authentication-Warning: uclink4.berkeley.edu: Host scf-sl3.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.135.131] didn't use HELO protocol X-Sender: malyly@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Diz Subject: Berkeley Mini-rave at Bravo Co. Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Once again we proved the power of a good set and incredible vibes. What's better than a small obscure rave? An even smaller rave that takes the form of an X-party. The Bravo Co. put on a beautiful and intimate X-party. We used a large Japanese lantern on one corner of the dance floor and painted sperm heading towards it. A la blacklights said sperm were hovering above the crazed dancers' heads all night and some enthusiasts jumped up to try to grab those things all night. What made it was the energy running through the whole place. It was _the_ perfect vibe. Everyone was beautiful, people danced all night and we've never experienced that much happiness save in that chill room and on that dance floor that night. Nothing will ever be the same again. It's ruined other parties for us. But anyways, we just wanted to share our happiness and to tell you all that the best parties can be those right smack in your home. Love and Kisses, Meera & Maly From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 16:32:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA22035; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:32:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA22022; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:32:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.178.41.41] ([205.178.41.41]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with ESMTP id QAA11166 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:31:02 -0800 X-Sender: branka@pop.sirius.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:31:18 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: *B* Subject: WISH review Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk After work and a really boring C++ class the only thing I was looking forward to was Wish - Mars and MYSTR-E, couple beers and dancing..... Two of my friends and I got there around 10:30pm. The space was empty and for a while I was getting worried that not that many people will show up and that everybody went to ComeUnity. One of my friends even mentioned ComeUnity, but somehow Garth & Jeno vs. Mars & MYSTR-E... I just couldn't do it :). Mars came on @11pm and I have to admit - every time two of them are spinning I alway want to hear MYSTR-E more, but every single time Mars just surprises me more and more and I think "Wow, this time it's Mars who will keep me dancing all night." His set was great and I left my friends and danced in front by myself (I usually don't do that). MYSTR-E came on and he was better than I remembered (although I do have his tape....). Incredible :). I just couldn't stop and I was really sad when my friends dragged me out of there at 1:30am. I just wanted to stay and keep dancing... I hope there will be more parties coming up with them spinning, because personally I am loving every moment of it - I even said that if I ever had a wedding reception I would beg them to spin at it :P. Actually my B-Day is coming up and MYSTR-E and Jon Carol will be spinning that night - if Mars could just sneak in - it couldn't get better. By the time we left, the space had enough happy people dancing around. I ended up having 5, not couple beers and I must admit I had hard time getting up this morning to go to work... But, I also realized that I like dancing and drinking beer - it puts me in a different world :). I did notice that there were showing "Star Wars" again - this is 2nd time in a row that I've been there. Don't get me wrong - I like the move, but somehow I don't really want to see it every time I am at the party there. Looking forward to more good parties, *B* P.S. How was that jungle party last night - Steve I heard you went - post a review if you have time From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 16:33:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA22166; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:33:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA22161; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA19314; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:33:23 -0800 Received: from ccMail by CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA847410591; Thu, 07 Nov 96 15:48:31 PST Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 15:48:31 PST From: "Ciaran OHara" Message-Id: <9610078474.AA847410591@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re[2]: This Week's SFR Calendar! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I think the simple maxim/rule of thumb seems to be : "The bigger/louder/more garish the flyer is the more crap/lame/sad the party will be...", I collect flyers whoch I consider to be aesthetically pleasing but have certainly come across some flyers that can only be described as UGLY. That one for a party called "blitzkreig" particularly springs to mind.... Any nominations for an UGLY FLYER TOP TEN ? COH ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: This Week's SFR Calendar! Author: "Fred Heutte" at atlas Date: 11/7/96 12:29 AM I would have to say the New Year Cool World flyer (er, magazine insert) is the most atrocious thing since . . . LAST year's Cool World New Year's flyer/thingie! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 16:34:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA22268; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:34:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA22249; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:34:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.178.41.41] ([205.178.41.41]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with ESMTP id QAA11268 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:32:45 -0800 X-Sender: branka@pop.sirius.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:33:06 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: *B* Subject: WISH review Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk After work and a really boring C++ class the only thing I was looking forward to was Wish - Mars and MYSTR-E, couple beers and dancing..... Two of my friends and I got there around 10:30pm. The space was empty and for a while I was getting worried that not that many people will show up and that everybody went to ComeUnity. One of my friends even mentioned ComeUnity, but somehow Garth & Jeno vs. Mars & MYSTR-E... I just couldn't do it :). Mars came on @11pm and I have to admit - every time two of them are spinning I alway want to hear MYSTR-E more, but every single time Mars just surprises me more and more and I think "Wow, this time it's Mars who will keep me dancing all night." His set was great and I left my friends and danced in front by myself (I usually don't do that). MYSTR-E came on and he was better than I remembered (although I do have his tape....). Incredible :). I just couldn't stop and I was really sad when my friends dragged me out of there at 1:30am. I just wanted to stay and keep dancing... I hope there will be more parties coming up with them spinning, because personally I am loving every moment of it - I even said that if I ever had a wedding reception I would beg them to spin at it :P. Actually my B-Day is coming up and MYSTR-E and Jon Carol will be spinning that night - if Mars could just sneak in - it couldn't get better. By the time we left, the space had enough happy people dancing around. I ended up having 5, not couple beers and I must admit I had hard time getting up this morning to go to work... But, I also realized that I like dancing and drinking beer - it puts me in a different world :). I did notice that there were showing "Star Wars" again - this is 2nd time in a row that I've been there. Don't get me wrong - I like the move, but somehow I don't really want to see it every time I am at the party there. Looking forward to more good parties, *B* From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 16:34:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA22369; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:34:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA22363; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:34:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA19395; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:34:49 -0800 Received: from ccMail by CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA847409173; Thu, 07 Nov 96 15:22:40 PST Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 15:22:40 PST From: "Ciaran OHara" Message-Id: <9610078474.AA847409173@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> To: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis), sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Audio Impact (RR!!!) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Junglism in the area ! I'll be there at the next one bud. I'm tired of wishy washy house nights. Best BM memory : me & 2 other strangers dancing at the Spaz collective at sunrise on Monday morning to sweet Jungle toons. Wicked ! ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Audio Impact (RR!!!) Author: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) at atlas Date: 11/7/96 12:43 PM Sorry to post rave related material, folks. I'll keep it short, I promise ;) Audio Impact: I had just way too much dancing last night! I've been dying to hear some good, hard jungle for a while now, and last night certainly provided that fix. For the most part, when I've heard jungle at parties, it has usually been of the softer variety... !" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-626-5074 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 16:46:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA23442; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:46:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA23437; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:46:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA11353 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:45:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:45:53 -0800 (PST) From: Melissa Wong To: sfraves Subject: Rhythm in my souuuul... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk So who's gonna go to Rhythm with us tonight? Huh, you Southbayers? Hmmmmmmm?!?!?! I can't take any more studying or my brain is going to explode/implode (doesn't really matter at this point). I gotta put on my dancin' shoes and I would love to share some dance-floor space with you people! ************************************************************** Go to the mountains and the oceans and the forest, go naked in the summertime that you may regain the old joy and love gladly and freely under the stars. -John Whiteside Parson ************************************************************** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 16:49:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA23824; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:49:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA23809; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:49:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA32596; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:49:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (sidewalk@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA13306; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:43:19 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:43:19 -0800 (PST) From: Timothy McIntyre To: TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com cc: SuperDuperRavers , wpenna@aol.com Subject: Re: Weshouldcutgovernmentwaste(nrr)andincreaseserviceswhilewe... In-Reply-To: <28274FB0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Nov 1996 TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com wrote: > controlpeoplesmindsbymakingwatchingtelevisionfor8hoursadaymandatorythi > swayeveryonewillbeloyalconsumersandfallintoplacelikegoodlittlesheepand > wereallycareabouttheamericanpeoplethat'swhywearetakingallyourmoneyaway > andspendingitallandwhenyougetoldandgreyandyouhavenomoneyandthereisnomo > resocialsecuritythegovernmentwillsay"WELLWHYDIDN'TYOUSAVEYOURMONEY,OH > LITTLE SHEEP?" > Yeah but you see the thing is you don't have to *be* a sheep. Railing against "The System" is also allowed. baaaa, Timothy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 16:53:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA24175; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.online-la.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA24150; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:53:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from online-la.com (jbondy.online-la.com [206.29.15.96]) by mail.online-la.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA27002; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:47:56 -0800 Message-ID: <32828493.628B@worldsite.net> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 16:53:39 -0800 From: ~^JBondy Reply-To: jbondy@worldsite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ciaran OHara CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: This Week's SFR Calendar! References: <9610078474.AA847410591@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ciaran OHara wrote: > I think the simple maxim/rule of thumb seems to be : "The > bigger/louder/more garish the flyer is the more crap/lame/sad the > party will be...", I collect flyers whoch I consider to be > aesthetically pleasing but have certainly come across some flyers that > can only be described as UGLY. That one for a party called > "blitzkreig" particularly springs to mind.... Well, if you take into consideration that Dr.Freeclouds lost over $10,000.00 on that busted party, I don't know if you'd be calling it lame. I'm not one to attend hardcore events, but they got royaly screwed over from the property owner who called the police after he saw all of the crazy kids walking onto his property that was ALREADY rented and paid for... And then they lost even MORE cash on the free make-up party they threw for those who had tickets. Just like what their motto says: "Support those who support you." I guess some couldn't give less of a shit... What's aesthetically pleasing to you, may not be to someone else. Every flyer doesn't have to be liquid pyramids floating over a distorted purple lake. Jeez, aren't we all geting sick of that kinda crap that's so often touted as computer generated art? Looks more like pushing the demo key on your new poser program. Sorry to be so rude. The owners of Dr.Freeclouds are friends, and they have a huge thorn in their side after 'Bustkrieg' happened. It wasn't very pretty.... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 17:13:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA25996; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:13:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA25990; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:13:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA20760; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:13:09 -0800 Received: from ccMail by CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA847415656; Thu, 07 Nov 96 17:11:41 PST Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 17:11:41 PST From: "Ciaran OHara" Message-Id: <9610078474.AA847415656@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> To: jbondy@worldsite.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re[2]: This Week's SFR Calendar! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Sorry,I was talking about the flyer art and knew nothing about the cops busting the event or the property owner obviously being a schizophrenic flake. Btw, surely your friends had some sort of legal stance to take regarding the venue owner. But the flyers alone must have cost a fortune...they were huge. I just wasn't into the War imagery, that's all. Bad vibes 'n' all that.... Well, if you take into consideration that Dr.Freeclouds lost over $10,000.00 on that busted party, I don't know if you'd be calling it lame. I'm not one to attend hardcore events, but they got royaly screwed over from the property owner who called the police after he saw all of the crazy kids walking onto his property that was ALREADY rented and paid for... And then they lost even MORE cash on the free make-up party they threw for those who had tickets. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 17:14:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA26107; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:14:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ssd.loral.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA26093; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from macpo.ssd.loral.com (macpo.ssd.loral.com [158.184.3.188]) by ssd.loral.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id RAA22066; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:13:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611080113.RAA22066@ssd.loral.com> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:08:00 -0800 From: "KING, JAMES" Subject: RE: Re[2]: This Week's SFR Calendar! To: Ciaran OHara , sfraves X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I second the motion for the coolworld flyer ---------- From: Ciaran OHara To: sfraves Subject: Re[2]: This Week's SFR Calendar! Date: Thursday, November 07, 1996 3:48PM I think the simple maxim/rule of thumb seems to be : "The bigger/louder/more garish the flyer is the more crap/lame/sad the party will be...", I collect flyers whoch I consider to be aesthetically pleasing but have certainly come across some flyers that can only be described as UGLY. That one for a party called "blitzkreig" particularly springs to mind.... Any nominations for an UGLY FLYER TOP TEN ? COH ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: This Week's SFR Calendar! Author: "Fred Heutte" at atlas Date: 11/7/96 12:29 AM I would have to say the New Year Cool World flyer (er, magazine insert) is the most atrocious thing since . . . LAST year's Cool World New Year's flyer/thingie! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 17:18:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA26453; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:18:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.online-la.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA26445; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:18:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from online-la.com (jbondy.online-la.com [206.29.15.96]) by mail.online-la.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA27173; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:13:33 -0800 Message-ID: <32828A94.147A@worldsite.net> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 17:19:16 -0800 From: ~^JBondy Reply-To: jbondy@worldsite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ciaran OHara CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: This Week's SFR Calendar! References: <9610078474.AA847415656@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ciaran OHara wrote: > > > Sorry,I was talking about the flyer art and knew nothing about the cops > busting the event or the property owner obviously being a schizophrenic flake. > Btw, surely your friends had some sort of legal stance to take regarding the > venue owner. But the flyers alone must have cost a fortune...they were huge. I > just wasn't into the War imagery, that's all. Bad vibes 'n' all that.... That's ok. And yes, the flyers did cost a fortune. I guess there may not have been many of the other ones floating around the Bay area. The one flier was a war representation, while the other was the psychedelic version. They were goingfor the whole good vs evil thing. You're not alone though...many were discouraged and even outraged by the flyers. but... Oh well, taco bell! JB)ondy Elevation2 Nov 16th Kc / Tom Allain / Andy Kumeda / Brad 714-224-9779 elevation@party.net an intimate celebration meant to enlight and unite those that care about our scene- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 17:24:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA26950; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:24:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA26944; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:24:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA21073; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:24:05 -0800 Received: from ccMail by CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA847416380; Thu, 07 Nov 96 17:23:20 PST Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 17:23:20 PST From: "Ciaran OHara" Message-Id: <9610078474.AA847416380@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> To: Joe Rice , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: BSP - Phonix Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'll be making my way there from here (Walnut Creek) for my customary post-work, mid-week, Thursday night beer or two on the way home, unwind, chill out, try and not meet the wrong/right people and end up out way too late thing. What time are you on at ? I'l be hiting thr Top around 12:30pm.... COH ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: BSP - Phonix Author: Joe Rice at atlas Date: 11/7/96 5:11 PM Phonix tonight at the Top on Haight. Residents: Chris (OST) Marcus (Hedquarters) Guests: Tomas (Hedquarters) Joe Rice (Mad) This is a new weekly techno shindig... Joe (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 17:26:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA27223; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:26:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA27214; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:26:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:29:30 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611070634.WAA11341@mail1.sirius.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:28:09 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Joe Rice Subject: Re: When/where Robert Hood from Detroit? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 10:34 PM -0800 11/6/96, Kerry Levenberg wrote: >Does anyone know where Robert Hood is spinning this weekend (and when)? > >Many tankoos. >Kerry We were trying to get him for Mad, but it fell through - he and Claude Young are playing at Time in LA on Friday night and I'm not aware of any SF dates. Joe obMAD: Velocette live this Monday! (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 17:32:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA27712; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:32:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA27705; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:32:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from well.com (phred@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.6/8.7.5) with ESMTP id RAA16155; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:32:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA19378; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:32:15 -0800 (PST) From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9611071732.ZM19376@well.com> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:32:15 -0800 In-Reply-To: blkadder@value.net "Re: NRR: Re: YES/NO ON 209?" (Nov 7, 3:03pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: blkadder@value.net, "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: NRR: Re: YES/NO ON 209? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Many disagree with what Jesse Jackson says and does, but one thing is completely clear, he is anything but a "hate monger and racist," and Black Adder owes this list an apology for such a careless slur. I will tell my own personal Jesse Jackson story to anyone who wishes tio hear it in email. In the meantime, I have been buttoning my lip during this storm of political postings. I do politics for a living, sfraves is my place to go beyond that. I'm disappointed in the self-indulgence that has gone on here the last few days. One or at most two comments from any given person on a question of the day, whether 209 or 215 or whatever, is more than enough. Thank you. phred From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 17:40:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA28397; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:40:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA28388; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:40:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA21205; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:33:03 -0800 Received: from ccMail by CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA847416910; Thu, 07 Nov 96 17:32:04 PST Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 17:32:04 PST From: "Ciaran OHara" Message-Id: <9610078474.AA847416910@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Come-unity Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I lost my atm at Samhain & so had no mon to go last night (just as well, 'cos I needed rest anyway) Was it any good ? COH From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 17:53:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA29625; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA29620; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from 206.86.220.227 (bwret.vip.best.com [206.86.220.227]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA16873 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:51:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32828453.635D@best.com> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 17:52:35 -0700 From: Alex X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: jungle impact! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Really great turnout for a weeknite jungle party:) We got there about 10:00 and Thad was laying down some smooth dark plates. The sound system was pretty trick: four-corner system with plenty of bass. After we made a quick sojourn to Vesuvio, we re-entered to find the floor PACKED and Flux dropping the bombs. The sound got jacked up and you could hear it a block away down kearney. Jason Mouse came on next and really got the place jumping...literally. His stuff was smooth and deep...really deep. I could not stop dancing, even though my legs were getting worked. But then again, neither could anyone else:) His mixes were so fast and spot-on, he's an example to any drum'n bass dj. It was cool to see some familiar faces around. MArk E Quark, recent San Diego transplant was hanging out and seemed pretty impressed. The one negative to teh evening was when a little fight broke out around 1am. It only lasted a second, but i got pushed from behind and sent half a glass of water flying towards Dutch...ooops...glad he was quick and got mostly out of the way:] So big up to the BASS Kru and everyone who came out to support the scene. -peace- alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 18:23:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA02132; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:23:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from tsunami.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA02125; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:23:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dlb@localhost) by tsunami.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA05038; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:22:45 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:22:41 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bayer X-Sender: dlb@tsunami.berkeley.edu To: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: Voting Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk For a long time, voting had been restricted to those who were above a certain age. A long time ago, this probably was a decent method of clearing the polls of people who used propositions and elections to serve their own means. After a certain amount of time of plowing the fields and getting stuck in storms with only your neighbors to help, you had a better sense of what the community needed. Laws were voted on by the people they affected because the distinction between local, county, state and federal was a little clearer. Today, we have filled in most of those spaces and most of the voters out there have been raised on TV (yes, even you 40 year olds who watch the news and political ads in my opinion are being raised on TV). Somewhere, it seems people have stopped voting on what they believe this country is/was about and what is good for them. No longer are your neighbors free from your scruntity (and if they are not free from your scruntity, why are you free from theirs?). No longer are citizens of the United States free from religous persecution - Try getting an abortion in some states and see if you are "free" of religious presecution, or going to school and taking the required Pledge of Allegence... I don't really know how this presidental race was portrayed on TV because I do not have a TV, but I have heard people talking about money thrown into advertising and shifts in the polls from my coworkers. And I begin to wonder. My curosity becomes stronger after listening to some of the discussions that have taken place on this list. And to me, does not sound like people want to fix things, they only want to move blame for the state of things to someone else. >>>> Begin specifics, skip to next >>>> if this gets boring How are things going to get fixed without taxes?! And who can actually take a higher tax hit? Those who make $450K on the golf course with no one leaning over their shoulder demanding they get in earlier and stay later or those who make 25K and do not have moeny for anything but rent, fod, and transportation money to and from work? Maybe I should be allowed to delegate how my taxes are spent, because I do not see why my tax dollars should go to piping water down into a desert to make golf courses green, to drug law enforcement, to putting extra cops on the beat in upper class areas that do not need it, or to "improving" the high network when I believe that the money should go to an improvement in public transportation. But I have little say in the matter bcause the majority of people elected representitives that wanted those things and since I can pay rent, eat, and pay my transportation fees and maybe a little on the side to drive to butfuck nowhere and camp and put on a party or two while on there, I do not NEED that money and I will vote next time to hopefully get people in office that will support my beliefs for what society needs (which is not equalitant to what >I< need). Maybe between now and then, I may talk with one or two people and bring up a point and it will make them think about an issue and they will look at it and decide to vote instead of following an ad on TV which said YES on Prop 203474... How is going to Pacific Heights and roiting going to change the snotty whites images of blacks and latinos? Or is it going to just give them a basis for their fears?! The TV raises us well, fear those who do bad, and those who do bad are like this. Now those on TV who do bad are coming out here and beging shitty, TV was right, they are bad, we need protection from them, and they have no place in OUR society. On the flip side, how many people have gone down to a "shitty" neighborhood and seen what its like? And why do those people who have not, believe that the shitty areas are so bad? When I lived on 63rd and Market in Oakland, we would sit on the roof of our warehouse and listen to the gun shots at night in the area, but you know, I knew the names of my neighbors, and they left us to our own likess without peering over the fence to see if we were breaking the law (if they were peering over the fence it was because we had music on and they wanted us to come open the door and let them in). I remember one night when I had locked myself out when dumping the trash with bare feet and was walking round to the other side to punch in the code and this group and hardass guys is following me, and they say something about my feet and I shoot some sarcasasm back and they continue the banter and we part laughing. Had I treated them as hardasses, would it have been the same? But then there are places where if I had done that, I would have been picking a fight, my opponents would also have been white instead of black... >>>> End specific So, a long time ago, people knew what community was, and when they knew enough about the community and what they were voting for, they could vote, back then it was only the man who would have voted if he were in a family (and who was not in a family by the age of 21 when you died at 45?). I don't know, I wasn't there. Today, nobody knows what community is (at least the majority of us American types do not seem to) and no one seems to read what they are voting for. Why should we be allowed to vote then? I am here today, and it seems silly to vote for things you have no idea what you are voting for.... dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 18:43:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA04117; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:43:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from shgc.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA04108; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:43:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by shgc.Stanford.EDU (8.7.4/inc-1.0) id CAA06264; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 02:43:11 GMT Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 02:43:11 GMT From: piercy@toolik.Stanford.EDU (Mark Piercy) Message-Id: <199611080243.CAA06264@shgc.Stanford.EDU> To: ciaran.ohara@CCMAIL.AirTouch.COM Subject: Re: Come-unity Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk come-unity was good..I am allways amazed at the energy(yes it can be a little "clubby"). Every few months I go and it's great to see how many people are willing to dance till 4-5 am and go to work the next day, I mean you have to love to dance(maybe this is why despite it being at 1015 the vibe is nice)..Garth got people jumpin with some crazy tribal-drummin-house and strange-thumpin-dubness, it was packed as usual. Seeya MArk From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 18:46:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA04634; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA04614; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:46:37 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA26820; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:45:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:45:12 -0800 (PST) To: Fred Heutte cc: "John S. Lee" , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: Re: YES/NO ON 209? In-Reply-To: <9611071732.ZM19376@well.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Fred Heutte wrote: > Many disagree with what Jesse Jackson says and does, but one thing is > completely clear, he is anything but a "hate monger and racist," and > Black Adder owes this list an apology for such a careless slur. I will never apologize for such a statement to you, him, or anyone else. Do you really have such a short memory as to not remember his famous "Hymietown" remarks? These were made in a semi-public forum. I wonder what he says in private. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 18:49:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA04892; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:49:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA04884; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:49:28 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA27153; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:49:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:49:05 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: blkadder@value.net To: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: RE: 209--The Best Halloween Costume (long) In-Reply-To: <199611070650.WAA06435@lettuce.salinas.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey' wrote: > At 07:13 PM 11/6/96 -0800, blkadder@value.net wrote: > te: > > > > > >"The state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment > >to, any individual or group on the basis of race sex, color, ethnicity, or > >national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, > >or public contracting." > > > >I can't think of anything more fair and non-discriminatory than the above. > > > > Black Adder > > > >........................................................................... > ......... > > I think a lot of well meaning people, people with compassion, people with > convictions, or people who thought they were doing the right thing, voted > for 209. > I am surprized that more people didn't recognize 209 as Prop 187 in drag????? > > Who could disagree with the statement that the "state shall not > discriminate?" And gee, you shouldn't beat your wife either!!! Or, if you > can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all!!! Prop 209 was written > as advertising and marketing, not constitutional law. Not at all accurate. The wording of this proposition was necessary in order to prevent programs that did discriminate for reasons of sex, color, ethnicity, or nation origin. > However, does anyone think their vote will be used to really end > discrimination?? Do you think you have somehow voted to strike a > high-minded blow against inequality and end unfair admission and hiring > practices??? No to the first question, and yes to the second. All one can do is to vote against government sanctioned discrimination. You cannot legislate the discrimination in peoples heads away. *SOME SALIENT POINTS DELETED FOR BREVITY* > Affirmative action should be based on need, not race. Anything based on > race, will continue to create rascism. Absolutely. > So, Yes...Black Adder...I CAN think or something more fair than Proposition > 209. And all very valid thoughts. What I get from your statement is 209 did not go far enough in furthering the cause of fairness. And given your points I would agree. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 18:53:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA05291; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:53:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA05257; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id SAA27330; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:51:55 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id SAA27102; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:51:50 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:51:49 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: SFWaves! (LOL-related) To: randream@cats.ucsc.edu cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Starchild wrote: > "I'd wather be waving!" > > Either of the above could be accompanied by a picture of Elmer, > decked out in suitable gear, perhaps behind turntables with Bugs Bunny > slipmats? 8)- OH MY GOD!!!! !!!!!!!ROTFL!!!!! hugz, Ran (Namasate) / -=*=-/ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 18:53:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id SAA05352; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:53:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA05332; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:53:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp075-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.75]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id SAA16616 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:51:17 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0b33.32.19961107185638.00a5efb8@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0b33 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 18:56:55 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Fun Monger 99 Subject: Re: Re[2]: This Week's SFR Calendar! [ugly flyers] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > party will be...", I collect flyers whoch I consider to be > aesthetically pleasing but have certainly come across some flyers that > can only be described as UGLY. That one for a party called > "blitzkreig" particularly springs to mind.... the blitzkrieg flyer has good production behind it (good design, good balance, good colour, good objects). just because it has bombs on it doesn't make it ugly.. besides, they was another version _without_ bombs that looked great. which is more than i can say for most of the flyers i see. you want bad flyers? look to ghosttribe. *cough*. anyone can make a flyer with poser, photoshop, and kai's powertools. shit, i'm not an artist and i can whip up stuff that'll make you feel like you're on acid. big deal. that does _so_ not impress me. want something impressive? check out the Famtasia flyer by mike migurski. it's small, but it's one of the top flyers i've seen all year.. -brendan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 19:10:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA06817; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:10:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA06797; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:10:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA11082 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:10:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [207.33.94.69] (a69.value.net [207.33.94.69]) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA09856 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:07:03 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:09:31 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Brian Denny) Subject: You show me your facts, i'll call them irrelevant (nrr) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Where did you get these figures? I've got LOTS of data to back up > mine! > [irrelevant data deleted] > >The point of all this is point out that when people claim that the >"rich" aren't >paying their "fair share" one can see that the top 5% already pay almost >HALF of all the income taxes. Fairness can be debated! personally, human happiness is a lot more important to me than "fairness". if someone who makes a million dollars a year has to give 50% of it to the government, (s)he still is bringing home 25 times as much money as i am every year. (s)he probably also owns a very nice house with a lot of very nice stuff. there is no justification for letting people starve in the street. i don't care how much of a slacker someone is, how uneducated they may be... being penniless when there are people rolling in money on the other side of town is a misery no one should have to endure. if we could become less absorbed with "fairness" and "equality"and focus on human happiness & peace & love & understanding & caring & kindness, i think our society would end up being much more "fair", and a better place for all to live. but that's just my 2 cents, and 2 cents won't buy you bubble gum anymore, let alone an idealistic vision. love, brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 19:25:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA08152; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:25:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA08144; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:25:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA04704 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:25:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [207.33.94.69] (a65.value.net [207.33.94.65]) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA12294 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:21:50 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:24:05 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Brian Denny) Subject: weekend (was Re: Umm... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Who's going where this weekend? i would love to go to Gateway, but... something inside me is making me go to 2o12. hard to explain, but i think it has to do with a deep spiritual craving for Goa. :) i'll be there. you'll find me in a psychedelic trance state, so to speak. love, brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 19:35:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA08990; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA08983; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:35:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA23105; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:35:49 -0800 Received: from ccMail by CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA847424294; Thu, 07 Nov 96 19:37:30 PST Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 19:37:30 PST From: "Ciaran OHara" Message-Id: <9610078474.AA847424294@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Anyone selling turntables ? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Just missed out Technics on an ad in the Guardian but I get to buy the record collection..... Anyone out there got some tables for sale or know someone out there with tables for sale ???? Technics (natch) 1200, 1210, or even Vestax.... COH From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 20:08:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA11930; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:08:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA11923; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:08:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from axe.humboldt.edu by axe.humboldt.edu (PMDF V5.0-7 #17164) id <0E0J9YT01008DF@axe.humboldt.edu>; Thu, 07 Nov 1996 20:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 20:04 -0800 (PST) From: Rebecca Klassen Subject: Re: Hail Clintonius! Taxus Maximus! In-reply-to: To: "Thompson. Jim" Cc: sfraves - send mail to list Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > Further reduce funds for schools? Are you aware that > per pupil funding, IN CONSTANT DOLLARS, has more > than doubled in the last 25 years? That the top 10% of > income earners ALREADY pay almost TWO-THIRDS > of all the income taxes? > How long ago did you graduate from school? Did you go to a public school? I went to a private school in Latin America for my first three years of high school, and then transferred to a pubilc school in Minnesota. I was amazed at how incredibly apathetic and generally uniformed these people were. At my previous school we had a very limited exposure to resources... our library still used a card catalog for the small number of outdated books we had. Yet this school had even more obsolete books. Departments were eliminated because supplies couldn't be bought. Certain things that were considered standard to a decent education were sorely lacking at this school. The cost required for education is a lot greater than 25 years ago. Computer education is now considered necessary--but how many people actually receive any sort of instruction? How many schools can actually buy computers? How many schools even have a room to put them in? There are also many social factors that have arisen in 25 years. I worked at an inner city elementary school in San Diego, doing tutoring and mentoring for fourth and fifth graders. This neighborhood consisted primarily of immigrants from Somalia, Ethiopia, Mexico, and various Asian countries. How does a child learn how to multiply (and other -basic- skills) if they can't communicate with the teacher? I was speaking in Spanish more than anything else. They also arrive with the stresses of trying to adapt to a new social, mulitcultural environment. The school didn't have the resources to teach them English to where they could communicate with their instructors, much less their peers. How could a fifth grader not know how to subtract? The middle school they moved on to had a very high rate of gangsterism. In fact, one girl, aged fourteen, was interviewed on [talk show name here] about her ability to point a gun and shoot it. rebecca From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 20:22:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA13052; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:22:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.redshift.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA13033; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:22:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.179.250.138] (pm2-sal-138.redshift.com [205.179.250.138]) by mail.redshift.com (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id UAA09187 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:21:59 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:24:47 +0100 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: danielv@redshift.com (daniel villareal) Subject: test Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 20:24:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA13282; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:24:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from tsunami.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA13273; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:24:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dlb@localhost) by tsunami.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA05472; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:24:04 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:24:00 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bayer X-Sender: dlb@tsunami.berkeley.edu To: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: Re: Voting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Dave Bayer wrote: > How are things going to get fixed without taxes?! And who can > actually take a higher tax hit? Those who make $450K on the golf course > with no one leaning over their shoulder demanding they get in earlier and > stay later or those who make 25K and do not have moeny for anything but > rent, fod, and transportation money to and from work? Maybe I should > be allowed to delegate how my taxes are spent, because I do not see > why my tax dollars should go to piping water down into a desert to > make golf courses green, to drug law enforcement, to putting extra > cops on the beat in upper class areas that do not need it, or to > "improving" the high network when I believe that the money should go to ^^^^ oops, this should be highway From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 20:44:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA14613; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:44:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ultima.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA14608; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:44:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ultima.org by ultima.org; Thu, 7 Nov 96 21:18 PST Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961108053947.3baff2b2@ultima.org> X-Sender: freakz@ultima.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 21:39:47 -0800 To: Dave Bayer From: Freak Zone Subject: Re: Full mooon in December? Cc: "\\SFRaves\\" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 02:00 PM 11/6/96 -0800, Dave Bayer wrote: >Ok, that about says it all... > >Anyone know when it will be? > >dave > My lunar calender sez that the moon will be full on December 24th (x-mas eve). It's gonna be a cold one! -Sean ___________________________________ F R E A K Z O N E ! "House music all night long..." email: freakz@ultima.org freakz@geocities.com freakz@freemark.com www: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/3420/ (415) 227-7421 =================================== From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 20:44:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA14646; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:44:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ultima.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA14614; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:44:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ultima.org by ultima.org; Thu, 7 Nov 96 21:18 PST Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961108053958.3baf2c8a@ultima.org> X-Sender: freakz@ultima.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 21:39:58 -0800 To: Rebecca Klassen From: Freak Zone Subject: Re: Hail Clintonius! Taxus Maximus! Cc: "Thompson. Jim" , sfraves - send mail to list Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Please take this dissussion off the list. Thanks in advance From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 20:47:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id UAA14930; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:47:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ultima.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA14916; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:47:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ultima.org by ultima.org; Thu, 7 Nov 96 21:21 PST Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961108054312.3baffa84@ultima.org> X-Sender: freakz@ultima.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 21:43:12 -0800 To: blkadder@value.net From: Freak Zone Subject: Re: NRR: Re: YES/NO ON 209? Cc: Fred Heutte , "John S. Lee" , sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Please, please, please take this discussion off of the list. Thanx! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 21:03:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA16163; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:03:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from scruz.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA16155; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:03:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [165.227.109.23] by scruz.net (8.7.3/1.34) id VAA26911; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:03:19 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: anarch@mail.scruznet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:06:18 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: anarch@scruznet.com (Anarch) Subject: Re[2]: This Week's SFR Calendar! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk "Ciaran OHara" wrote: > Sorry,I was talking about the flyer art and knew nothing about the >cops >busting the event or the property owner obviously being a schizophrenic flake. >Btw, surely your friends had some sort of legal stance to take regarding the >venue owner. But the flyers alone must have cost a fortune...they were huge. I don't know much about LA parties, but they sure generate some enormous flyers. I have one recent "flyer" (Chemistry) which is actually an 11x17 poster, folded. A more modest flyer for the same event is about 4x11. I have another which is a strip about two feet long and six inches high, sure to entertain those who find drug references gauche: the party is "Wake-n-Bake," the slogan "Flowers Blooming...Speakers Booming...People Shrooming." Then there's the elaborate folding cardstock flyer for Nocturnal Wonderland, which is actually kind of neat. They don't seem generally much better or worse, design-wise, than what we see up here, but there is a tendency towards more size and bombast. Of course, I see a lot more SF than LA flyers. As far as ugly goes, I don't see many I'd really call that, though there are a lot that are uninteresting. A flyer for Other Whirled at the End Up earlier this year was weak, a bunch of clumsy CG...they might still have the poster up on the wall, but I haven't been for a while. The flyer for this weekend's That Girl Mona is pretty bad in several ways. Last January's Plastik flyer was OK on one side, revolting on the other. Out-A-Sight flyers have a distinctive style which is usually pretty cool, but the one from this past May falls down badly. The design or picture side is OK, not as good as others, but turn it over to the info side...ugh. Somewhere I have a terrible flyer from Limelight in NY. anarch@scruznet.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 21:04:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA16276; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:04:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA16215; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp075-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.75]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id VAA21195 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:02:40 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0b33.32.19961107210803.00a67e04@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0b33 (32) Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 21:08:09 -0800 To: NRR Central From: Fun Monger 99 Subject: Re: Anything and everything Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Please take all discussions off the list. thanks. -brendan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 21:16:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA17809; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from ultima.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA17801; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:16:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ultima.org by ultima.org; Thu, 7 Nov 96 21:50 PST Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961108061210.591715b6@ultima.org> X-Sender: freakz@ultima.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 22:12:10 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Freak Zone Subject: 2001 In 70mm!!! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk 2001 will be playing in 70mm at the Northpoint Theatere (Bay @ Powell) this weekend. Only $5.00! "Stop, Dave. I'm Afraid..." -Sean ___________________________________ F R E A K Z O N E ! "House music all night long..." email: freakz@ultima.org freakz@geocities.com freakz@freemark.com www: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/3420/ (415) 227-7421 =================================== From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 21:18:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA17945; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:18:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA17941; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:18:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA24518; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:18:02 -0800 Received: from ccMail by CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA847430423; Thu, 07 Nov 96 21:19:22 PST Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 21:19:22 PST From: "Ciaran OHara" Message-Id: <9610078474.AA847430423@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR : Back at school Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk It was the first day of class after summer for a first grade class. The teacher, of course, went around the room asking each student what they did for the summer. First grader number 1: "We visited my Nana this summer." The teacher: "Well, we are all in first grade now. No need to talk baby talk. You didn't visit your Nana you visited you GRANDMA this summer." First grader number 2: "We visited a farm this summer and we milked a Moo-Moo." The teacher: "Now what did I say? I said we are all big boys and girls and we don't need to talk baby talk. You went to a farm and milked a COW." First grader number 3: "I read a book this summer." The teacher: "Which book did you read?" The first grader: "Winnie the Shit" The following is an attached File item from cc:Mail. It contains information that had to be encoded to ensure successful transmission through various mail systems. To decode the file use the UUDECODE program. --------------------------------- Cut Here --------------------------------- begin 644 RFC822.TXT M4F5C96EV960Z(&9R;VT@6F]O;"Y!:7)4;W5C:"Y#3TT@8GD@0T--04E,+D%) M4E1/54-(+D-/32`H4TU44$Q)3DL@5C(N,3$@4')E4F5L96%S92`T*0T*("`@ M(#L@5&AU+"`S,2!/8W0@.38@,38Z,#4Z,SD@4%-4#0I2971U2!:;V]L+D%I2!A9&5S:V=A=&4N875T;V1E2!H<6AU8FUU,2YA M=71O9&5S:RYC;VT@*#@N-RXU+S@N-RXS*2!W:71H(%--5%`@:60@44%!,C,U M,#`[(%1H=2P@,S$@3V-T(#$Y.38@,38Z,#(Z-#`@+3`X,#`@*%!35"D-"E)E M8V5I=F5D.B!F2!S;71P8V,N875T;V1EGE`8W)L+F-O;2P@ M1V5O9F9`8WEB97)A;FYE>"YC;VTL("`@("`@("`@(&IA;F%F=$!C2YC;VQO2YB87)N;T!A=71O9&5S:RYC;VTL(&UA bla" but I guess they're bigots and your not? > (it's ironic i sometimes get really bummed about the lack of racial > diversity at some really nice u.g. parties..but there might be a more polite > way to expres it than you did) > > Fair enough. I don't mean that it got whiter and whiter and the scene sucked. I meant it makes me sad that I remember it being far more diverse, and then it gradually became less. Then the people I remember put the raves on who were Chicano stoped raving altogether. Then people began to say , "Oh, I hate those Cholo there. I wish they wouldn't come." And all the nice things they say about the latin influenced techno. I understand the dislike of Cholos etc, and the possiblilty of violence when they participare are definately higher than when they are not. But I felt a lot of people would see any Mexican at a rave and term them as Cholo. If you (as a plural) don't do it great. Pat your self on the back, but if you do, you know think about it. Are you sure the person next to you in line is really a gangster (I mean Baggy and shaved head is in). Or otherwise. I have to say there were moments in my life that I thought that. Then one day I was in a rave and there were a big bunch of what I assumed to be Cholos etc, and we started dancing and I thought about it long and hard, and I realised why my friends stopped raving. People would assume them to be dangerous and they were ignored by other non chicano/as. Here more polite, elaborated responce. Nailvarnish From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 21:44:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id VAA20081; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ultima.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA20068; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:44:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ultima.org by ultima.org; Thu, 7 Nov 96 22:18 PST Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961108064029.26f79c92@ultima.org> X-Sender: freakz@ultima.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 22:40:29 -0800 To: Milton Cecil From: Freak Zone Subject: Re: BSP-furniture/shelves/futon couch/bed etc Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Do you still have anything to get rid of? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 22:18:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA23093; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:18:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from libra.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA23076; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:18:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from glow@localhost) by libra.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id WAA05628; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:18:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:18:32 -0800 (PST) From: BRUCE ALVIN MCDONOUGH Message-Id: <199611080618.WAA05628@libra.sfsu.edu> To: sidewalk@uclink2.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: Weshouldcutgovernmentwaste(nrr)andincreaseserviceswhilewe... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk that wouldn't be Timothy Leary, would it? question authority. kill your tv grow your hair i'm the one who has to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life my own way... Jimi you get the picture, Love, Bruce don't sell your soul for a fucking Big Mac!! (look at this a broadly as you ) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 22:21:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA23321; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:21:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from libra.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA23314; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:21:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from glow@localhost) by libra.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id WAA06746 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:21:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:21:39 -0800 (PST) From: BRUCE ALVIN MCDONOUGH Message-Id: <199611080621.WAA06746@libra.sfsu.edu> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: election daze Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Whoa, for a couple hours there, I got caught up in the election spirit and almost believed. Those guys looked like they were trying pretty hard, and earnestly, too, goshdarnit. I believe: every day is election day, really. It's in how you spend your money. For starters, boycott Shell and Mitsubishi. B From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 22:42:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA24731; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:42:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id WAA24709; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:41:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA25730; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:41:52 -0800 Received: from ccMail by CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA847435461; Thu, 07 Nov 96 22:42:55 PST Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 22:42:55 PST From: "Ciaran OHara" Message-Id: <9610078474.AA847435461@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> To: Freak Zone , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re[2]: BSP-furniture/shelves/futon couch/bed etc Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk oh...I'm a bit slow off the mark on this one...but I NEED a futon, shelves, etc.,and will pay $$ if they're in good condition. While I'm at it, anyone selling a vcr ? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: BSP-furniture/shelves/futon couch/bed etc Author: Freak Zone at atlas Date: 11/7/96 9:57 PM Do you still have anything to get rid of? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 22:47:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA25024; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:47:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay2.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA25020; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:47:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from heald.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQboxf11176; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 01:46:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp106.hayward.heald.edu by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA21171; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:51:52 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:51:52 -0800 Message-Id: <9611080651.AA21171@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Ann Elizabeth Loraine From: Aryck Subject: Re: i went to Mad Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 12:29 PM 11/5/96 -0800, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > >Last night I got the chance to go to Mad for the first time in months and >months. > >It was insanely great! > >I got there when Joe Rice was playing, and then Tim McKnew went on. He >started off really trippy, with some slower stuff, and then he settled >into a serious techno set that MADE ME DANCE. Later on, Monty played and >he did the same thing to me. I'm so glad I got to hear him play at last! > >It was mighty fine to see lots of friends for the first time since FnF. >Such as Leslie, little Tod, Jonas, Maya the irrepresible (this lady has >energy to spare!), and of course, the Mad crew, who can be counted on to >show us all a good time. The visuals were awesome, Alex! > >Thanks for a perfect Monday night, > >Ann > > Now did I say it was cool or did I say it was cool???? Damn I love it when I'm right. . . Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 22:49:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA25131; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:49:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id WAA25117; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:48:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from 204.30.72.149 (sdx-ca23-04.ix.netcom.com [199.183.171.68]) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA20589; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:48:23 -0800 Message-ID: <328231A4.7586@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 12:01:22 -0700 From: "Dr. Ray Trace" Reply-To: ctdzine@cyborganic.net Organization: CT D-Zine X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: SFR BBQ&BeatsIII & Harmony!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Talk about a raging weekend! Back 2 Back! If you want the vibe; now you know where to find it. Pure pleasure to be found at both of these locations. I know I'll see you all there!!! Down The Coast, Rod.(Rodrigo) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 22:49:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA25140; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:49:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from x4.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA25116; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:48:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cice@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id AAB02487; Fri, 08 Nov 1996 00:35:29 EST To: ACID-JAZZ@UCSD.EDU, FUNKY-MUSIC-REQUEST@MAIMONIDES.LCS.MIT.EDU, 313@hyperreal.com, BPM@DHP.COM, GOA@NS1.INTELENET.NET, AMBIENT@hyperreal.com, SYNTH-L@american.edu, ADRAVE@STUDENT.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU, ENIGMA@YOYO.CC.MONASH.EDU.AU, IDM@hyperreal.com, Introspective@TCP.Com, MOVABLE-PARTS@STUDENT.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU, NYC-RAVES@hyperreal.com, NW-RAVES@hyperreal.com, PB-CLE-RAVES@hyperreal.com, SFRAVES@hyperreal.com, SD-RAVES@PARTY.NET, SERAVES@american.edu, TXRAVES@LIST.IO.COM, WNYSOR-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU, mw-raves@taz.hyperreal.com, SOCIAL-RAVES@UCSD.EDU, ALLMUSIC@american.edu, Happy@lists.io.com, MTN-RAVES@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 21:20:49 PST Subject: Sorry E-Mail Crash!! Message-ID: <19961107.215229.7495.1.CIce@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,5-7 From: cice@juno.com (Dan R. Martig) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk To anyone who has written to me in the last few days, My E-Mail crashed a couple of days ago and took out many of my mail messages before I could get a chance to read them. If you have E-Mailed me recently please send me a copy of your original message. If this does not concern you I am sorry for having taken up your time with this message. P.L.U.R. C-Ice From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 22:50:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id WAA25431; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id WAA25424; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:50:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id WAA25834; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 22:50:37 -0800 Received: from ccMail by CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA847435991; Thu, 07 Nov 96 22:50:31 PST Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 22:50:31 PST From: "Ciaran OHara" Message-Id: <9610078474.AA847435991@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR : Like to rent a room Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all : I would like to rent a room in the upper/lower Haight, Cole Valley, Wetern addition area. I've been in my present place in upper Haight about a year, and while it's a beautiful apartment there are lifestyle differences with my roomates. I'm in no rush to find somewhere as I want to find the right place. Hardwood floors, roof/lawn access, fireplace, parking would all be nice. Can afford up to $500 per month. Dont want to party every night (or every week as I seem to do now). Pets/smoking/sex OK :) COH From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 23:02:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA26238; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:02:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA26225; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:02:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id XAA26236; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:02:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:02:09 -0800 (PST) From: Karen Hardie Subject: SIGH. (nrr!) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk just thought y'all might like to know that i have MOVED finally and let me tell you i am SO HAPPY to be AWAY from that fuckwad!!! And for those of you who keep asking ... no ... i live in Vancouver BC :) My housewarming is Friday night so i'll expect to feel your vibes! pounce ---------------------------- You know, there are many people in the country today who, through no fault of their own, are sane. Some of them were born sane. Some of them became sane later in their lives. It is up to people like you and me who are out of our tiny little minds to try and help these people overcome their sanity. -- Monty Python From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 23:16:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA27276; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:16:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA27270; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:16:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [205.134.228.45] (ppp045-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.45]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id XAA25484 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:14:37 -0800 X-Sender: sddpw@pop.sirius.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:17:07 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: sddpw@sirius.com (Shimako-Dominguez Department of Public Works) Subject: still selling 303? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Could the person who was selling the 303 drum machine e-mail me and tell me if it is still available? THANKS.....arkay From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 23:27:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA27930; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:27:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay2.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA27923; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:27:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from heald.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQboxh14421; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 02:27:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp99.hayward.heald.edu by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA21545; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:31:12 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:31:11 -0800 Message-Id: <9611080731.AA21545@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) From: Aryck Subject: Re: hate crime? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk K OK, I've been dying to say this. First off, I'm German, Swedish, Slavik, Czeck, and whatever. And yes, I'm white. Despite being raised my whole life around mostly racist people, I've never developed an attitude that anyone is any less than me because of their ethnicity. Now a couple things that piss me off: I hate racists of all types. I've met more Black Racists than I have white. (That chick from the fugees said something in an interview about how she never wants a white person to buy thier album) UPN 44 is basically an all black tv station during prime time on certain days. There's the BET channel. Everyone would shit a brick if there was the White Entertainment Channel, or the hawaiian channel. Granted there are channels for hispanic and indian, but they're not for people who don't speak the language. Every movie by a black producer portrayes the white man as "the bad guy", "the dork", "the idiot". Like on movies like house party, and any spike lee movie, or movies like higher education or whatever. There are KKK wannabees, and people who try to mimic the nazis. People idolize "heroic" figures who resorted in violence and destruction to supposedly help their race. They wear hats, shirts, and whatever without understanding what the person did. There are too many people using PRIDE as an excuse to be stupid. There are too many shops around our area which are built in the interest of one minority. No one does anything about anything. I have seriously racist "acquaintences" (x-friends) of whom I'd rather pick a complete stranger over in the case of a fight. And they're dragging in my once best friend with them. People need to stop making excuses, and they need to stop teaching others the WRONG things without knowing the RIGHT way to go about it. Meaning ideals. I'm just pissed at all the racists who think that they can't be racists because they're been repressed all these years. So the world is actually doomed. Or at least not for the Rich. Don't take this against me. Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 23:33:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA28304; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:33:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ferret by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA28300; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from slip.net.slip.net [204.162.172.214] by ferret with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLlRK-0006zV-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:33:22 -0800 Message-ID: <3282DE8F.38F1@slip.net> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 23:17:35 -0800 From: Adam Mednick/philip diaz Reply-To: trance@slip.net Organization: Euphonic Genesis X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: DISCOVERY!!!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm so excited about Saturday!!!! I better see all of your smiling faces out here in downtown San Jose Saturday, NOVEMBER 9th.. yes, that is THIS weekend!!! =) It's gunu be so much fun... bring your beach ball and your frisbe, and probobly a sweatshirt or sweater or jacket or sumptin, in case it gets cold. call (408) 881-0567 for info/directions....... see yall on Saturday!! ---adam--- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 23:34:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA28396; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:34:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from rgate.metricom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA28387; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:34:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.179.134.154] (mg134-154.ricochet.net [204.179.134.154]) by rgate.metricom.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA24763 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:32:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611080732.XAA24763@rgate.metricom.com> Subject: Re: Systematic Racism part II. Date: Thu, 7 Nov 96 23:39:28 -0000 x-sender: deeje@ricochet.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: deeje cooley To: "SFRaves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Subject: Systematic Racism part II. OK, I've had enough. Both sides, take it off the list. None of you are listening I don't think you understand each other You're certainly not accepting each other so for god sake, get a hug! I've been reading this stuff all week, and tonight I chased my cat around the house for taking a swipe at my face. The vibe from the active participants of this discussion is bring me down, and I no longer wish to partake. Must I unsub, or will you take it elsewhere? I don't want to avoid it, I just can't stand lack of progress this thread is making. And besides, email is the worst communication medium with the narrowest back-channel information for discussing such a personal issue. Next party, let's sit down with a loaded bong, and TALK WITH each other! peace and love (and may my cat forgive me) deeje From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Nov 7 23:56:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id XAA29818; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:56:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom16.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA29812; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:56:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mayer@localhost) by netcom16.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA05131; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 23:56:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199611080756.XAA05131@netcom16.netcom.com> To: BRUCE ALVIN MCDONOUGH Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" Subject: Re: election daze In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Nov 96 22:21:39 PST." <199611080621.WAA06746@libra.sfsu.edu> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 96 23:56:28 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > I believe: every day is election day, really. It's in how you spend your > money. For starters, boycott Shell and Mitsubishi. And Texaco (racists!), and Nike (indonesian slave labor exploiters!), and Exxon (alaskan oilspill assholes!). And quit wearing company advertizing on your clothing (unless it's a really geeky "i'm a total computer dork" t-shirt that you wear to raves to ensure that girlz will avoid you like the plague, in that case, it's ok, except if it's like a miscrosoft or netscape T shirt, in which case you should have silly fluffy animals forcibly superglued to your skin.) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 00:05:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA00795; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:05:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA00787; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from well.com (phred@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.6/8.7.5) with ESMTP id AAA14784; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:05:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id AAA14193; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:05:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9611080005.ZM14191@well.com> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:05:42 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Niels P. Mayer" "Re: election daze" (Nov 7, 11:56pm) References: <199611080756.XAA05131@netcom16.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: "Niels P. Mayer" , BRUCE ALVIN MCDONOUGH Subject: Re: election daze Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk My current crusade is against anyone wearing those damn swooshes on their clothing (other than shoes). Yikes! phred From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 00:06:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA00867; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA00855; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:06:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.106.63.241] (mac8100.zone.org [199.106.63.241]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.6/8.7.5) with SMTP id AAA14820; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:05:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:05:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611080805.AAA14820@mh1.well.com> X-Sender: crunch@206.15.64.22 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: jbondy@worldsite.net From: crunch@well.com (John Draper) Subject: Re: This Week's SFR Calendar! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Well, if you take into consideration that Dr.Freeclouds lost over >$10,000.00 on that busted party, I don't know if you'd be calling it >lame. I'm not one to attend hardcore events, but they got royaly screwed >over from the property owner who called the police after he saw all of >the crazy kids walking onto his property that was ALREADY rented and >paid for... And then they lost even MORE cash on the free make-up party >they threw for those who had tickets. Well, I for one, was at Blitzkrieg, and up until it got busted, the party was GREAT!!! Of course, I'm a fan of hardcore.... But anyways, the land owner actually called the police on his own party. He took $3000 for renting the land for the party, then called the police and told them he wanted everyone off his land. To make a long story short, Dr Freecloud has filed a lawsuit to recover his loss..... On another rave related note.... My tapes are almost ready, and they are supposed to be delivered sometime in few days or next week. Crunchman From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 00:13:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA01394; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:13:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA01378; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:13:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id AAA13096; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:12:22 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id AAA15351; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:12:16 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:12:15 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Weshouldcutgovernmentwaste(nrr)andincreaseserviceswhilewe... To: TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com cc: SuperDuperRavers , wpenna@aol.com In-Reply-To: <28274FB0.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Nov 1996 TGARCI01@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com wrote: > controlpeoplesmindsbymakingwatchingtelevisionfor8hoursadaymandatorythi > swayeveryonewillbeloyalconsumersandfallintoplacelikegoodlittlesheepand > wereallycareabouttheamericanpeoplethat'swhywearetakingallyourmoneyaway > andspendingitallandwhenyougetoldandgreyandyouhavenomoneyandthereisnomo > resocialsecuritythegovernmentwillsay"WELLWHYDIDN'TYOUSAVEYOURMONEY,OH > LITTLE SHEEP?" > It's simply amazing how fast I can hit "D" when presented with posts like this. ;) peas, Ran (Namasate) / -=*=-/ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 00:16:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA01600; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:16:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA01579; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:16:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id AAA13522; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:16:26 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id AAA16127; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:16:20 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:16:20 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: You want facts? I'll give you facts! (Education Spending) To: "Thompson. Jim" cc: sfraves - send mail to list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, Thompson. Jim wrote: > > I'm sorry! education spending HASN'T doubled in real dollars > in the last 25 years. It's been in the last 30 years. SO SUE ME! > Don't go away mad Jim! Just go away educated. peas, Ran (Namaste) / -=*=-/ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 00:40:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA03123; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:40:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA03119; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:40:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp016-sf1.sirius.com [205.134.227.16]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id AAA27787; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:39:21 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:39:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199611080839.AAA27787@mail1.sirius.com> X-Sender: kerryl@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Thompson. Jim" From: Kerry Levenberg Subject: NRR- Tax Facts Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Yes, I posted the figures for comparing wealth. Here are the figures for comparing income according to the US Census, 1994 data. (availible at: http://www.census.gov/ftp/pub/hhes/income/incineq/p60tb1.html) Number Lowest Second Third Fourth Highest Top 5 Year (thous.) fifth fifth fifth fifth fifth percent 1994../21/..69,313 4.2 10.0 15.7 23.3 46.9 20.1 Looks like the top third earns, in income, about two thirds of all income in the US. No surprise based on that that they pay 2/3 of the taxes. Keep in mind, though, that the wealthiest protion of the US makes most of their money not in income, but in property, stocks, bonds, and other capital investments. This income is easily sheltered, and is taxed at a different rate. Lower, for large capital gains, than for income. The wealthy also get in tax breaks than the poor got in subsidies in 94. This cleft has increased over the past couple years. The Center for Popular Economics (Amherst) estimates that when we consider direct benefits and tax breaks -- masked welfare payments -- an average household with income under $10,000 receives about 60% of the welfare provided to households with income over $100,000. Details: Food Stamps in 1993: $25 billion (to be dramatically reduced next year) Welfare and family support(1993): $16 billion Supplemental security income (poor, elderly, disabled:): $21 billion Compare: Deductions for interest payments, mostly mortgage payments (80% to familes with incomes over $50,000, skewed more radically toward the higher reaches): $49 Billion Farm price supports: $16 billion Michael Wines, _New York Times_, Nov 20, 1994: Total payments to the poor "add up to less than the three largest tax breaks that benefit the middle class and wealthy: deductions for retirement plans, the deduction for home mortgage interest and the exemption of health-insurance premiums that companies pay for their employees." At 10:27 AM 11/7/96 -0800, you wrote: >Kerry wrote: > >> Um, the top 10% of the population has 90% of the wealth, but only pays 67% >> of the taxes. The top 1% has 40% of the wealth. Tell us some more about >> irness, please. > >> Peace for the post-election dance floor, >> Kerry > > Where did you get these figures? I've got LOTS of data to back up > mine! > >From the Walls Street Journal 1/16/96 page A20 > > Income Share of Share of Average > Group Total Taxes Total Income Tax Rate > ---------------------- --------------------- -------------------- ---- >------------- > > Top 1% 28.8 % 13.8% 27.7% > Top 5% 47.3% 27.8% 22.6% > Top 10% 58.8% 39.1% 20.0% > Top 25% 79.2% 62.6% 16.8% > Top 50% 95.2% 85.1% 14.8% > Bottom 50% 4.8% 14.9% 4.3% > > > > >The point of all this is point out that when people claim that the >"rich" aren't >paying their "fair share" one can see that the top 5% already pay almost >HALF of all the income taxes. Fairness can be debated! > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 00:57:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id AAA04102; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA04091; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:56:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.32.91.93] (mmf23.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.91.93]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA07204; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:56:48 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 00:56:45 -0800 To: Fun Monger 99 From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: Re[2]: This Week's SFR Calendar! [ugly flyers] Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >want something impressive? check out the Famtasia flyer by mike migurski. >it's small, but it's one of the top flyers i've seen all year.. *damn* brendan, thanks!!! I appreciate the plug! =D -m. ---> B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S <----------------------------- michal migurski tel:510.548.3225 lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu www.cyborganic.com/people/lachim lachim@cyborganic.net ---------------> MASS-PRODUCED GRAPHICS FOR A BETTER TOMMORROW <--- As a general rule, don't solve puzzles that open portals to Hell. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 01:28:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id BAA06092; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 01:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout20.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id BAA06083; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 01:28:11 -0800 (PST) From: StEvEoberk@aol.com Received: by emout20.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA16455 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 04:27:39 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 04:27:39 -0500 Message-ID: <961108042739_346865785@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker, cont. Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk "Ravers do it all night in hot sweaty conditions with hundreds of people they've never met before and still repect each other in the morning." :) Actually, I ran with the first idea, & if other people have other designs or other stickers, I'm looking for someone to split some screen printing supplies with me, about $75 total. I'm not a pro at screen printing, so I hestitate dooing more than 2 color designs. -StEvEo From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 02:01:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id CAA08713; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 02:01:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from slip-3.slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id CAA08703; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 02:01:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sf-asc-23-172.dialup.slip.net [206.14.14.172] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLnkb-0002Vs-00; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 02:01:26 -0800 Message-ID: <32825C0A.75D8@hunab-ku.com> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 14:00:42 -0800 From: Jonas Judd Reply-To: jonas@hunab-ku.com Organization: Hunab Ku X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SFRaves@hyperreal.com Subject: Dance Floor Demolition!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Massive respect to everyone for the support at Audio Impact! We overwhelmed the management into getting it into a weekly!!! Next on will be Nov. 20th. Details coming soon! The best part of the night was the MCing through headphones! Fucking brilliant! Thanks everyone! J- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 04:27:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id EAA24170; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 04:27:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from x4.boston.juno.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id EAA24162; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 04:27:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cice@juno.com) by x4.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id HAA14313; Fri, 08 Nov 1996 07:27:21 EST To: ACID-JAZZ@UCSD.EDU, FUNKY-MUSIC-REQUEST@MAIMONIDES.LCS.MIT.EDU, 313@hyperreal.com, BPM@DHP.COM, GOA@NS1.INTELENET.NET, AMBIENT@hyperreal.com, SYNTH-L@AMERICAN.EDU, ADRAVE@STUDENT.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU, ENIGMA@YOYO.CC.MONASH.EDU.AU, IDM@hyperreal.com, Introspective@TCP.Com, MOVABLE-PARTS@STUDENT.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU, NYC-RAVES@hyperreal.com, NW-RAVES@hyperreal.com, PB-CLE-RAVES@hyperreal.com, SFRAVES@hyperreal.com, SD-RAVES@PARTY.NET, SERAVES@AMERICAN.EDU, TXRAVES@LIST.IO.COM, WNYSOR-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU, mw-raves@taz.hyperreal.com, SOCIAL-RAVES@UCSD.EDU, ALLMUSIC@AMERICAN.EDU, Happy@lists.io.com, MTN-RAVES@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:25:52 PST Subject: In search of Vinyl & CD's Message-ID: <19961108.071939.12327.0.CIce@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,3-5 From: cice@juno.com (Dan R. Martig) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk What'z up??!! I am fully in search of places to pick up some rad vinyl and CD's as well as any mail order places, and if possible any record or CD club deals that you guys might have. P.L.U.R. C-Ice From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 07:33:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id HAA07686; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:33:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id HAA07681; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:33:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id HAA03611; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:35:44 -0800 Message-Id: <199611081535.HAA03611@precipice.v-site.net> From: "Geoff White" To: "Yvonne Yan Sham-Shackleton" , "John S. Lee" Cc: Subject: Complexion of Raves (was:Re: Systematic Racism...this happens everyday!) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:33:34 -0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ---------- > From: Yvonne Yan Sham-Shackleton > To: John S. Lee > Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com > Subject: Re: Systematic Racism...this happens everyday! > Date: Thursday, November 07, 1996 2:00 PM > > > I just want to say I hear ya. I hear ya. I know, as an Asain Woman I live > it every day. I am sick off people telling me that I am too sensitve, and > that I should just deal with it. I quit Socal raves because of that. So > since noone backed me up there, I wanted to put in my voice on the > topic. > > I am sad 209 won, I am dissappointed by California. > > Just to make this rave related, I am sad to see how raving became more > and more white as the years have gone by. What happenned? That is > another topic that I think I am too busy to get into. Maybe some day...... > > Nailvarnish Yes this is distressing to me as well, parties are fragmenting allong racial/cultural lines. Some of it unfortunately has to do with musical preferences (Harder trance music usually prefered by male europeans, vocal house prefered by mostly gay men, to name too extremes) But I guess in america this has always been the case, I grew up listening to soul music in the 60's, by the late 60's and 70's I discovered "progressive rock" and almost exclusively listened to music that was considered "white", as the 80's rilled around I got into Jazz Fusion which basically knew no color demarcation since it was not mass marketed and therefore appealed only to a relatively small number of people (though in my mid-new england college, most of the people that listened to this type of music were black, asian and "kool" white people, alot of bridges wee made through music, that is one thing I can say. As far as house music, it is following the same lines as must american cultural music phenomena, Initial innovation by African Americans who incorporate some existing musical styles and elaborate on it. (We can start with straight house and then clearly see the influence of euro-beat groups like Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, etc), the music is generally picked up by kool in-touch europeans (maybe because cultural creations by blacks here are not valued?) and elaborated upon, once kids in europe think it's kool it then bounces back to here and kool white kids in america adopt it. (This seemed to happen in the early days of rock and roll, where the black groups were prety popular in the black community here, some of the more successful toured europe (little richard, etc.) The Beatles were initially fameous in europe for being "white guys" who did covers of black R & B groups, eventually they added there own distinct mark on this music (rubber soul :). In the early days of the SF rave scene house music was still pretty unaccessable unless you were gay or at least not afraid to party with gay people, early clubs like recess opened this music up to a wide group of people Gay, Straight, Black White, old, young. Later on , partiies like Toon Town made it even more accessable though the crowd started to become more straight, younger and whiter, but at that time there was still House Nation and that ment unity. Today the music has fragmented, there are so many different classifications and rarely do you have a party where all types of music are played, that's why I have to take my hat off to FTT (dry mouth and all :) for executing a massive the likes of I haven't seen since Toon Town, where there was something for every persuasion and the crowd was incredibly diverse. Now don't get me wrong, if you love Goa deep in your soul and want to attend Goa parties, that DOES NOT make you a seperatist (unless you are :) or if you are truly moved only by wailing Divas that doesn't make you a racist, but ask yourself, isn't raving suppose to be about bring ALL of the cultures, people, races of the world together in the context of party and family? Openmindedness and tolerence are major aspects of this, if the Goa DJ is on and you don't like Goa, maybe it's time to go to the chill room and get to know that new friend better. If someone plays a vocal, then maybe it's time to take a bathroom break. I think it's time that we as a group begin to show the way when it comes to this kind of thing. So Yvonne don't give up hope, it's obvious to me that I need to throw a party where all musical styles can be represented. I don't know how I will manage to do this with my already busy schedule but I guess "Love can move Mountains" See you on the Dance Floor G From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 08:13:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA11113; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:13:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom23.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA11106; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:12:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id IAA24762; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:12:45 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:12:45 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199611071739.JAA12281@netcom17.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: blkadder@value.net From: "John S. Lee" Subject: Re: NRR: Re: YES/NO ON 209? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >On Thu, 7 Nov 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > >> > Perhaps you were or are a racist, and need to redress your sins, however I >> > am not, nor have ever been to the best of my knowledge. Why attempt to >> > hold *me* accountable for actions which I condemn and have had nothing to >> > do with? >> >> Just because you are an immigrant does not make you immune from this >> country's jhistory. You and others come over here, you had better be >> ready to accept the good with the bad. Fact is we ALL relive the sins of >> our fathers. A company poluutes for decades, goes out of biz, people >> forget they were there, build upon polluted land, and the children get >> sick, are malformed, or die. The sins of the father are ALWAYS visited >> upon the son. One should take time to undo the sins of the father. Else >> they be visited upon us endlessly. > >I will not accept responsibility for things that I have not done. If you >chose to do so, that is your perogative, however, I do not wish to be >forced to because you think I should. Well, the fact we're arguing about it shows you really have no choice. fact is, we're all part of previous historical wrongs. Saying your people, your ancestors had nothing to do with it doesn't help the fact that it affects you. You can't just wish history away. However, you can take corrective measures. > >> The typical immigrant stance is "I had nothing to do with it.". Yeah, >> neither did I. But I still live with the vestiges of racism every day. >> And they are not vestiges, they are real. When you come here, you get it >> all, you cannot say you like a,b,& c but have nothing to do with the rest >> of the alphabet. That is not what this country is all about...we are ALL >> in this together. We are all part and play a part in the mold history >> has set for us. > >Agreed. > >> > >> > Again, you are incorrect. I have given specific examples of this. Persons >> > seeking employment for the Dept. of Corrections are given extra points on >> > tests if they are of specific national origin. It should be obvious that >> > this can result in the selection of less qualified canidates for a given >> > position. I also remember a similar situation with persons seeking >> > employment with the U.S. Postal service, however I am not positive(I took >> > the test several years ago.) >> >> And again you are incorrect. That is not Affirmative Action. That is a >> quaota system which is illegal UNLESS it is court ordered. And under >> court order you still have to get QUALIFIED candidates. >> >> Get the facts straight. > >No, this avoids being a quota system. Reread what I have stated is going >on. People are getting extra points on tests. This is not the same as 15% >of employees must be such and such a race and so on. I have the facts >straight, however you simply refuse to acknowledge them. No, I simply refute you labelling such tactics as Affirmative Action. > >> >> That is not what this country is about. Don't want to participate, >> recent immigrant? I invite you to go back home. > >I don't know where you get the impression that I am an immigrant. I am >not. However my background is not one of rich landed gentry, but of >working class immigrants(a few generations ago) and a bit of Sioux. Thanks >for the invitation though. Everyone on this rock in an immigrant. Even indegenous people came from somewhere (American Native? Can we say "land bridge" or at least the theory thereof. I don't buy into spontaneous evolution.). > >> > > People are worried about job security and want >> > > someone to blame it on. Enter your sacrificial lamb: immigrants, >> > > minorities, and women. >> > >> > "People?" Which people? Let's be clear about this, shall we? In a society >> > where there are more women than men? In a sciey where "minrity" grous >outnubr hit? >>> > > Sorychre whitesar stillth ajori, eve in CAby slim>>argin,bu notor lng. Nt r loat al. >So,wat You drea of a day when there ar mre orme inorit goups hn whie Watfr Whtdiferencedesitake? o,I rea o adaywnpepl a jugdby te cotent f her haracternotthe lro ter skin. An sine blacs d t endue 300yars o soof etback, al belive ha ts ountrOWS u reitutiveaures. Thy idt forhe Japaese teyc dit orwAfcas >>> Letepesoaieito o: >> >>> votd fo209. Iamnop,ave ntbeen brainwashe b he >> >cneaves.I do otaveaposiinopor,noram I te mmbr of >>>any Goo ol ys Newok"althgh arhe gt gra el club > discnt) e yu sayigtt I a raisbeaseI d arewith you >> ssuppored 09 as wll. If >ourecoortal wih atthn fin Nope, it does't ake you > rcis, buty cosetsuporthat ich e most unesebe > supprt. f that' oyor aligned t tenin. t' youlife, >> yr vot, yor hoe.I vewant tobe lied with the lies o >De,elms or he oraits ik Lis Farrakn(sp?), oressiJaksn Sor Jhnhiae undesierables >both sis. Youroinionir. Ad eveif theare th mot rbd ort,tydoot iith hlsf onress,noi thewhie ous nr on teuprmcortnorasplicen > M, urhisrica vw i rell ho.> >>Fcnvoe, nd asum d. AlIsee om hi i an inhritane o eenten: " he rigs utmyanstos din' s Iamoig o madbu tht. rnggan adder. WE tht Ico,nli me ots, o cetha fct. dnlie oths ae ureit never apensagain And unlike oa? orealy. Upetpaps tht ourempthyabut h pliho oess,IH, vcat Bu you hv oive wh itn me ou as op ote lt orcopasionven hl,he yu ul odo it yorfI rll Jut fnnho nseehion xeriece o peate ro other ow ul youv iced ourself ub e od botsraps,th maybeaginyught hvefln yufce B gatfu thrwere soethe t help ndha iswht wme d eople cl lokdor, soe ttance ofhelp. utI gessta7%lack pulaionin alas bitto muh r eveyoe. heve...doou hudresof yeasof>> icinatin..uspass law, or take deiivection Wa dyo >> prpet eure eeon gesa hace Do ofeel ho opps e > lredy ter? >Thegornmen cannot legislate resentment, ignoane, adiscnceio wa.o a hwe gilethe tin aw.a yu amlirwihhee costutsto ke bacs fm otn. pein of wch wha hapen wh you EXCE agu fom ripin. a ai? n wtdoyou aou t? What ae teONGterm efets? u're ein i w, nmnylak cmmuniis. t, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 08:28:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA12440; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA12426; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (sandoz@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA02122; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:28:23 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: sandoz owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:28:22 -0800 (PST) From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG X-Sender: sandoz@pluto To: "John S. Lee" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: YES ON 209? In-Reply-To: <199611061752.JAA21223@netcom20.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At my college there are more people of color, propertionatly, then there is in every single higher education institution in England combined. What the fuck is everyone complaining about? People round here have already got it to good to be true but that is not enough for them and they still complain like spoilt children. If 52% of my college is women then they don't need affirmative action. Don't forget that the real sickness that affirmative action should try to cure is one of poverty and not ethical denomination. If you are poor you will do less well at college, reguardless of your ethnicity. All these Asian kids going around in there brand new Hondas and living at home with mummy and daddy do not need affirmative action; they need a good kick up the arse. And also, I hate this thing of if a proposition does not go your way you block it in the courts so it never really comes into effect legally. If a proposition passes it should pass; and the courts and the legal system should deal with it; changing other conflicting laws if needed. Otherwise, what is the point of having elections on propositions in the first place? It's just another effort by the status quo to lull us into the false sence of security that our voice really does count. In short, it's all bullshit. And while I did vote no on prop 209 I do not agree with affirmative action. If it is supposed to help people from the ethnic minorities where are all the programs for Jewish kids? Answer there not their. Why? Because people think that all Jewish people are middle class and educated; this is a lie. When there are affirmative actions programs for Jewish people I will then support affirmative action and not until. We, as a race, are descriminated from by all sides of the political spectrum and it has got to stop. In short, the people who are anti 209 are just as racist as the people who support it. We all live in the most amazing country in the world with the least ammount of racism contained with in it. Lets all stop feeling so sorry for ourselves and be happy with what we've got. Because at the end of the day that is all anyone can hope for: to be treated the same as everybody else. Tristan. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 08:35:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA13121; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:35:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA13112; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:35:38 -0800 (PST) From: blkadder@value.net Received: from localhost (blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.8.Beta.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA02801; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:35:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:35:27 -0800 (PST) To: StEvEoberk@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: SFR Bumper Sticker, cont. In-Reply-To: <961108042739_346865785@emout20.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 8 Nov 1996 StEvEoberk@aol.com wrote: > "Ravers do it all night in hot sweaty conditions with hundreds of people > they've never met before and still repect each other in the morning." :) > > Actually, I ran with the first idea, & if other people have other designs or > other stickers, I'm looking for someone to split some screen printing > supplies with me, about $75 total. I'm not a pro at screen printing, so I > hestitate dooing more than 2 color designs. How bout: Raving: Changing peoples minds one person at a time. Hey, it even rhymes.... ;-) Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 08:51:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id IAA14434; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:51:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA14429; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBCD51.E6ADDE60@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:50:32 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: Money isn't the Problem. Money isn't the Solution. Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:38:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I went to a public school in Baltimore. My major point is that money is not the solution because money is not the problem. Haven't you noticed that taxes keep going up but the things the government used to spend money on that benefitted all the citizens now have to be funded by bond measures and "special" taxes that force the money to be spent in a particular way? All the tax money now goes to special interest groups while things like libraries, roads, sewers, etc are allowed to deteriorate? If school spending in constant dollars has doubled in 30 years yet the schools are crumbling and the children aren't being educated, then I don't think more money will solve anything. Washington DC spends almost TEN THOUSAND dollars PER PUPIL PER YEAR on the public schools (as much as expensive private schools charge) yet the schools are a disgrace..... jim thompson From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 09:01:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA15412; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:01:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from hal.mobius.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA15394; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from fireball by hal.mobius.net with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0vLx6m-000JLhC; Fri, 8 Nov 96 13:00 PPET Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961108170957.002ead10@mail.mobius.net> X-Sender: pauly@mail.mobius.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 09:09:57 -0800 To: cice@juno.com (Dan R. Martig), ACID-JAZZ@UCSD.EDU, FUNKY-MUSIC-REQUEST@MAIMONIDES.LCS.MIT.EDU, 313@hyperreal.com, BPM@dhp.com, GOA@NS1.INTELENET.NET, AMBIENT@hyperreal.com, SYNTH-L@AMERICAN.EDU, ADRAVE@STUDENT.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU, ENIGMA@YOYO.CC.MONASH.EDU.AU, IDM@hyperreal.com, Introspective@TCP.Com, MOVABLE-PARTS@STUDENT.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU, NYC-RAVES@hyperreal.com, NW-RAVES@hyperreal.com, PB-CLE-RAVES@hyperreal.com, SFRAVES@hyperreal.com, SD-RAVES@PARTY.NET, SERAVES@AMERICAN.EDU, TXRAVES@LIST.IO.COM, WNYSOR-L@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU, mw-raves@taz.hyperreal.com, SOCIAL-RAVES@UCSD.EDU, ALLMUSIC@AMERICAN.EDU, Happy@lists.io.com, MTN-RAVES@hyperreal.com From: pauly Subject: Re: In search of Vinyl & CD's Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk dan: At 07:25 AM 11/8/96 PST, Dan R. Martig wrote: >What'z up??!! > I am fully in search of places to pick up some rad vinyl and CD's >as well as any mail order places, and if possible any record or CD club >deals that you guys might have. Try http://www.x-radio.com/x-radio/ pauly ____________________________________________________ x-radio ____ ____ http://www.x-radio.com/x-radio/ ____________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 09:04:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA15681; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:04:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA15672; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:04:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBCD53.B6ED8660@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:03:31 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: Every Day IS Election Day - When You Have a Choice! Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:51:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk It was written: > I believe: every day is election day, really. It's in how you spend your > money. For starters, boycott Shell and Mitsubishi. What if you're not allowed to have a choice? What if I don't like Social Security, or the Public Schools or Socialized Medicine? I CAN'T boycott the IRS or Social Security can I? You may not like Shell but what if the government owned the ONLY oil company you were allowed to buy gas from? This is the way it is in a lot of countries (and the way it's becoming here)....... jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 09:26:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA17779; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:26:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA17735; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:26:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBCD56.C993AA80@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:25:31 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: WARNING: Facts + Thinking May Lead to Change of Mind! Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:13:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Yes, but they have more than half of the wealth. And I'm sorry, the Wall > Street Journal, oh yeah, that is a reliable source for these kinds of > statistics. Here's a table from the Statistical Abstract of the United States showing how much various income groups pay in income taxes. It's pretty eye opening! The top 6.82% of income earners (those making over $75,000) pay OVER HALF of all income taxes! You can see from the table that the bottom 60% of income earners who pay only 10% of the income tax have a veto-proof majority to elect those who will give them ever more benefits at the expense of the minority who pay the great majority of the taxes. This is the engine that has been driving government expansion. jim thompson ======================================================================== ===== Statisticall Abstract of the United States (Table 534, page 346) Taxes Paid by Size of Adjusted Gross Income Group ======================================================================== ===== Column A Col B Col C Col D Col E Col F Col G Col H ------------ ------------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ----- ------ income group # of returns total taxes % of cumu % % of cumu % (thousands) income paid filers filers taxes taxes ------------ ------------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ----- ------ > 1,000,000 67 176.9 47.5 .06 00.06 10.0 10.0 500K - 1 M 141 95.4 24.8 .12 00.18 5.2 15.2 200K - 500K 746 218.6 52.0 .66 00.84 10.9 26.1 100K - 200K 2811 368.4 67.4 2.47 03.31 14.2 40.3 75K - 100K 3988 340.6 51.6 3.51 06.82 10.8 51.1 50K - 75K 11796 712.3 88.5 10.38 17.20 18.6 69.7 40K - 50K 9009 403.1 43.6 7.93 25.13 9.2 78.9 30K - 40K 12325 428.5 43.7 10.85 35.98 9.2 88.1 25K - 30K 7590 208.2 18.5 6.68 42.66 3.9 92.0 22K - 25K 5451 128.0 10.5 4.80 47.46 2.2 94.2 19K - 22K 6215 127.3 9.1 5.47 52.93 1.9 96.1 17K - 19K 4506 81.0 4.9 3.97 56.90 1.0 97.1 15K - 17K 4871 77.9 4.2 4.29 61.19 0.9 98.0 <15K 44089 362.7 10.1 38.81 100.00 2.1 100.0 ------------ ------------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ----- ------ 113,605 3629.1 476.2 Table above is for '92 taxes and is taken from the latest Statistical Abstract of the United States (Table 534, page 346) Column A: income groups, in dollars Column B: number of returns filed, in thousands, by that income group Column C: total adjusted gross income, in billions, for that income group Column D: total taxes paid, in billions, by that income group Column E: percentage of total filers represented by that income group Column F: cumulative percentage of filers for that income group and above Column G: percentage of total income taxes paid by that income group Column H: cumulative percentage of income taxes paid by that income group and above For example, those making $50,000 - $75,000 represented 10.38% of all those filing returns, and paid 18.6% of all income taxes paid For example, those making 50K and above represented 17.2% of all filers, but paid 69.7% of all income taxes paid -- jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: :.:::...:. .. ..:.. ::.:.::::..:::.:::.:::::...::: ..:.::.. .....::::...:::.:::: :::::..:::::::::::.. :::..:::::::: .:::::::: :::.:::.. :.::: :::::::::: From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 09:55:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id JAA20609; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:55:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from goonsquad.spies.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA20596; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:55:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:55:06 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1996-Aug-2) Message-Id: From: sho@goonsquad.spies.com (Sho Kuwamoto) Subject: Re: WARNING: Facts + Thinking May Lead to Change of Mind! To: jthompson@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com (Thompson. Jim) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:55:06 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfraves) In-Reply-To: from "Thompson. Jim" at Nov 8, 96 09:13:00 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Here's a table from the Statistical Abstract of the United States > showing > how much various income groups pay in income taxes. It's pretty > eye opening! Do we have to start this again? I think we pretty much covered this topic the last time it was raised on sfraves two months ago, and I fail to see how it relates to the San Francisco rave scene. -Sho From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 10:36:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA24991; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA24970; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (raygun@localhost) by value.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11386 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:36:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:36:41 -0800 (PST) From: Reagan Reid To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Meat Beat Manifesto/Chem. Bros. 11/23 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello out there in rave land. I was just wondering how many of you were going to this show?! It's going to be at the Warfield. Reagan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 10:40:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA25328; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:40:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA25314; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:40:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BBCD61.22653340@arkons.lmsc.lockheed.com>; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:39:35 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Thompson. Jim" To: sfraves - send mail to list Subject: Appy Polly Loggies Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:28:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I agree. I'll shut up! I just find it SO INFURIATING ;-) when people say things on this list that can be so easily checked for accuracy - if people would just make the effort. There seems to be a disturbing authoritarian attitude among many on this list. I don't care if it's right or left wing authoritarianism - when it comes down to it on a personal level, it's someone trying to tell you what you can and can't do with your own life...... jim thompson - cube root fact axon info grid data fate ::: ..::. ....: ::::.:::::: . ....::... :: .:..::::: ....:::.....::.:::::::::.. .. :..::::: .:.:..:.. ..: ...::::..:. . ...:: : .... :........:.: ..... ::... .::::::: ...:::: ... :..... ..::... :::..:::....:: .:......::.. :::::.:: ::..... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 10:45:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA25963; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:45:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.online-la.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA25959; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:45:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from online-la.com (jbondy.online-la.com [206.29.15.96]) by mail.online-la.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA00836; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:39:30 -0800 Message-ID: <32837FB8.2B0D@worldsite.net> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 10:45:12 -0800 From: ~^JBondy Reply-To: jbondy@worldsite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Wyszkowski CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: This Week's SFR Calendar! References: <9610088474.AA847452365@smtplink.acer.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Andy Wyszkowski wrote: > > That night was soo cool (shy of the bust). I hung out at this van > that was blasting hardcore for about two hours afterward, then we went > to Elevation and almost died and went to heaven (I'm not a big > hardcore fan, but breaks, house and trance are ol' faves). > > Andy Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed Elevation so much! It's always good to hear. Elevation is actually an event tat features all Socal-raves dj's, is thrown by SCR peopl and resources are collected and donated from and through SCR people. What we did last August was a precursor for what we're doing Nov 16th. I did see a few SFR laminates floating around that night, and hope to see more in 9 days. It's outdoors once again, and at an incredible location that is tent/camping friendly. We'll be serving free coffee all night long, with a bread and fruit breakfast in the morning. I hope to see some of you SFRs there! JB)ondy Elevation2 Nov 16th Kc (Dune) Tom Allain (Sweet) Andy Kumeda (Elevation) Brad (MoonTribe) elevation@party.net 714-224-9779 http://www.online-la.com?~jbondy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 10:59:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id KAA27391; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:59:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA27374; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:59:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA05707 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:58:29 -0800 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199611081858.KAA05707@trix.cisco.com> Subject: A little proverb To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 10:58:28 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk a friend of mine just sent me. :) j > Your mind is like a parachute; it must open to work. But it > is important not to be so open minded that your brains fall out... that is, > an open mind is like open arms, we open them only to have the ability hold > tight to something. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 11:10:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA28584; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:10:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA28558; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:10:28 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI02@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id OAA08974; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:10:18 -0500 Received: from ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28455; Fri, 8 Nov 96 11:10:11 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 28393D70; Fri, 8 Nov 96 12:11:03 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:06:38 -0800 Message-Id: <28393D70.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re: A little proverb\\ancient chinese secret To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, Jay Wiley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk calgon ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: A little proverb Author: Jay Wiley at ccsmtp Date: 11/8/96 10:58 AM a friend of mine just sent me. :) j > Your mind is like a parachute; it must open to work. But it > is important not to be so open minded that your brains fall out... that is, > an open mind is like open arms, we open them only to have the ability hold > tight to something. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 11:17:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA29341; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:17:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA29322; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04879 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:14:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:14:47 -0800 (PST) From: David Lowe To: SF-Raver Family Subject: Audio Impact... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hey people! Audio Impact... I had an allright time, I guess - but it wasn't my night. I should really listen to the voice of reason when it comes to weeknight partying - DON'T DO IT! I think the party itself was probably very good for those who were into it, but I actually had a complaint that I want to discuss a bit. Strobes. The lighting consisted of pretty much just one big strobe light near the back of the room, and it was driving me completely batty all night. I have always disliked them... but this was so relentless - seemed like it was on non-stop, at the same pitch, all night long... It really prevented me from having a good time, unfortunately. Strobe light aside, my only complaint was that near the end of the night the sound quality deteriorated badly... mostly just too loud and too much treble (for my sensitive ears?) Oh well! These things happen. I don't mean to come across negatively, I am actually really glad there's a jungle weekly in SF... I just can't deal with the constant strobing. Which is just as well, because I really shouldn't be going out on weeknights anyway :> Take care everyone! : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : : Every picture tells a LIE! : : - The Schwa Corporation : :: fingerprint: 1F E7 D3 24 04 18 72 67 CC E6 66 1B 79 79 CB 3A :: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBMoOGiKD2AoV67volAQHaCAf/bSI7FMyFPfA31Kb+9r476tULc6Pdhj0h M8kk0zw/PqiHz4CimNq/0iDsJNYJPIWcowxaiIXljuloJ3DpSo3X2hxpLIrMg1U/ Ir5HMUnp68iUttW0saTz2cO1aag15ZyjxcUSajLBzgBp8xf45pTSvpkR5j5bPiLn 8bpw2biQpXtHcGUS9aO6F7oSA+WXr5nCcoa0LlreNOMzRtoys3YnFPeGmc7CEdVE E1Mr8dCl2hae0cUZRA6kplYc8GeqNEkqkpGLe8pLfxBTvEtIqPiTeR7o1T++oRgs Yjg00scbE1ltHpXBphP5nFCA7ut0CmiHX6BLB5bTeq08JA6+2SKmYQ== =Nxlv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 11:26:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA00395; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:26:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from orion.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA00375; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:25:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (dislex@localhost) by orion.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA24638; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:25:31 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: orion.sfsu.edu: dislex owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:25:30 -0800 (PST) From: MIKE BOLGER X-Sender: dislex@orion To: Wolfchen@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: TWA Friendly Fire In-Reply-To: <960909025949_474631800@emout17.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ...the story is live on cnn now. On Mon, 9 Sep 1996 Wolfchen@aol.com wrote: > > > Got one hell of a 'forward mail' sent to me. Had to pass it along to all that > I know...take it as you will. > > -A > ________________________________________________________________________ > ______________________________________________________________________________ > _ > From: Genzmer Mike on Thu, 5 Sep, 1996 4:46 PM > Subject: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > To: Araujo Sheri; Chun, Claire; DeMartini Linda; Dersch Tim; Ellson Mark; > Fitzpatrick Bob; Frank Mark; Heffernan Paul; Helseth Dave; Irvin Ed; Lindgren > John; Lockhart Pam; Maddox Amy; Martin William; Parsons Tom; Schalk Rudy; > Schlapfer Martin; Wilbur Curt; Wong Mike > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > _ > From: Hinkle Al on Thu, Sep 5, 1996 3:45 PM > Subject: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > To: Alexandrov Anna; Alhadate Mark; Fujimoto Harold; Genzmer Mike; Glass > Gary; Hank Smith; Hansen Jerry; Jaques Martin; Joe Eugene; Kirk John; Koide > Dave; Lanham Lucy; McArdle Mark; McKnight John; Mogler Doug; Okamura Martha; > Pace Gary; Paul Mike; Poeschl Mark; Poston Bob; PSumnicht@aol.com; Striegel > Rhonda; Sumnicht Peter; Tom & Gail; Vail Cindy; Wysgoll Mike > > Hi gang, > > I have my doubts, but it certainly is interesting and explosive... > > --Al > ______________________________________________________________________________ > _ > From: Erwin Jodi on Thu, Sep 5, 1996 3:05 PM > Subject: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > To: Alexander Bruce nmi; Baessler Mike; Barkley Rick; Bataller Susan; Berg > Jeff; Botelho Russ; Busse Franz; Cabral Bill; Case Gary; Cestari Drew; Chinn > Don; Chiu Jenny; Chun Paul; Coombs Dick; Cordrey Rob; Dea Joann; DeBuhr Milt; > Dietz Jerry; Djordjevic Nik; Druley Steve; Fieger Martin; Flaig Ken; > Fortmeier Dave; Fugate David; Genzmer Mike; Gillin Joe; Glass Gary; Gonzalez > Wayne; Hail Tom; Harris Clif; Hawes Duncan; Heinsohn Mike; Heise Ron; Hinkle > Al; Horn Dick; Hubbard Barbara; Hubert, Peter; Hubka Bill; Ito Merrill; Jew > Nelson; John Mergenthaler; Kay Robb; Kerr Earl; Kindall Rich; Lee Ellen; > LeMay Kevin; Lohafer Phil; Mack Chris; Manning Mandy; Mar Lyman; Martinez > Manny; McAvoy Tom; McNerney John; Meredith Peggy; Miller Chuck; Morrow John; > Nederostek Rich; Nielson Joanne; Overstreet Brent; Palmer Steve; Pintner > Steve; Plater John; Procopio Ben; Pustelnik Steve; Reppucci Carol; Roberts > Owen; Sanders John; Shaver Kerry; Smith Dan; Snyder Jeff; Steelnack Bob; > Thorne Rick; Todd Will; Trushel Rick; Vaurs Sandy; Weissman Jack; Yenne > Wayne; Young Carolyn; Zajac, Frank S., LMTO > > Justing doing my part to spread rumors... > ______________________________________________________________________________ > _ > From: Cabral Bill on 5, Sep 1996 14:54 > Subject: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > To: Erwin Jodi; Hawes Duncan; Roberts Owen; Shaver Kerry > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > _ > From: Manning Mandy on Thu, Sep 05, 1996 12:36 > Subject: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > To: BLOB; Bohn, Edmund J., Capt; Cabral Bill; Case Gary; Cline, Nate; > CRopus@aol.com; Gebhart, Doug; HUTCH1234@aol.com; Jane Walz; Lincoln, Timothy > J.; LTOC SOC-34 PA; McMickell@AOL.com; SDSeamons@aol.com; Seibert Michael; > Trs4Frs@aol.com; Tyler Wall; Vaurs Sandy > > For those of you who like those conspiracy rumors..... this is a BIG one. > > MM > ______________________________________________________________________________ > _ > From: Comfort, James Capt on Thu, Sep 5, 1996 12:25 PM > Subject: FW: Fwd: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > To: Manning Mandy; Parsons Harry; Born, Geri Ms; Swan, Steven Capt; Neri, > John Capt; Traxler, Scott Capt; White, Kenneth LtC; Grey, Cynthia Capt; > Yamaguchi, Paul Maj; Peer, Judith Capt; Smith, Robert; wade r. smith; > Ansted, Jeffrey J.; Ballantine John T; cokerh; 'Cook, Tamara'; DeMars, > Jerald, Capt /62064; DiFrancisco Mike; 'Mary and Dennis Newman'; > 'Feild,Zan'; 'George.Comfort'; Hackett, Don, Civ /62088; 'Heller, > Veronica'; 'Janet Lynn Carter'; moorej; 'Pavdog'; ramireza; 'Fero, Ralph'; > Rizzuti, Karen Capt Det4/MIL; Schiller, Greggy; Spina, Louis, Maj > /64943; TRCOP; Troup, Tom (Aero) /63099; Wong, Deidra, Civ > /62010; Yeager, Louis, 1lt /64843; Yoshinaga, Tim, Capt /62104 > > > Intriguing reading.....questions arise as to type of missile (ie heat seeker > would hit engines and disable but not explode the whole plane, etc....) > Wade, have you heard anything? > Have fun.. > JLC > ---------- > From: Uyehara, Gayle, Aero /63187 > To: Henkle, Thomas G.; Davis, Jonathan R.; Keffer, John, Capt /64766; > Pluhar, Christopher, Lt /64763; BACIOCDA; Comfort, James Capt; 'Tom > McRorie'; UYEHRS > Subject: FW: Fwd: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > Date: Wednesday, September 04, 1996 14:59 > > > interesting reading... > ---------- > > ---------- > > FOR YOUR INFORMATION??? > ---------- > > Subject: FW: Fwd: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > Date: Wednesday, September 04, 1996 10:16AM > > I just received the following account of the downing of TWA flight 800 and > thought I would share it with you. I cannot vouch for the validity of the > information, but will admit that it is interesting. > > The message came to me from a man who was Safety Chairman for the Airline > Pilots Association for many years and he is considered an expert on safety. > He would not ever spread idle rumor. In short, he is usually quite certain > > before saying anything! > > Hang in there! Regards >=< Dick > > Subject: Friendly Fire? > > The following information about TWA Fight 800 was received this afternoon: > (08-22-96 ) > > TWA flight 800 was shot down by a U.S. Navy guided missile ship which was in > > area W-105. W-105 is a Warning Area off the SouthEast coast of Long Island > and is used by the military for missile firing and other military > operations. > > Guided missile ships travel all over the world defending the US and they > were conducting practice firings up over the top of a Navy P-3 radar plane > who was on a Southwest heading about over the top of TWA 800. Evidently the > > missile is suppose to go over the top of the P-3 and the accuracy of the > missile is being measured by instrumentation in the P-3. > > There was a USAir flight coming from the Southeast descending towards > Providence, RI that had been cleared to 21,000 feet and the TWA 800 > aircarft was restricted to 13,000 feet. The air traffic controller > requested the USAir flight to turn on his landing lights with the idea that > TWA might see his lights and identify him. At that point, he would clear > the TWA flight to continue his climb. > > The P-3 was a non-beacon target (transponder OFF) flying southwest in the > controlled airspace almost over TWA 800 and made NO calls to ATC. After the > > explosion, he continued his flight to the west and then called ATC and asked > > if they would like him to turn around and assist with the "accident!" > > You will remember that the first announcement about this accident came from > the Pentagon. The spokesman mentioned that they were sending the Navy to > the crash site. They immediately sent a Navy Captain who was replaced the > next day by an Admiral. That Admiral is still on the scene. > > The FBI has conducted at least 3,000 eyewitness interviews and the NTSB has > not been able to be a part of these interviews not have any access to the > contents of them. Some of those eyewitnesses reported seeing lights. > Those were probably the landing lights of the USAir plane. > > It has been a cover-up from the word go. The NTSB is there in name ONLY. > All announcements made by Mr. Bob Francis say absolutely nothing and notice > that the FBI is always standing beside or behind Mr. Francis and it would > appear that his job is to make sure that nothing is said that would give > away "THE BIG SECRET!" > > It is time to end this farce and tell the public the real truth as to what > happened to TWA 800. > > My source shall remain my own but the above information is true and I > believe it will all become known soon. Now that all of you know the real > truth. > > END============================================================== > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 11:28:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA00657; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:28:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from suc1a.corp.Harris.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA00647; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:28:19 -0800 (PST) From: TGARCI02@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com Received: from spirit by suc1a.corp.Harris.COM (8.6.12/Kurts Special version 2.0) id OAA10592; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:28:13 -0500 Received: from by spirit (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB29571; Fri, 8 Nov 96 11:28:11 PST Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.0 Enterprise) id 28397D70; Fri, 8 Nov 96 12:28:07 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:23:36 -0800 Message-Id: <28397D70.1825@ccsmtp.farinon.harris.com> Subject: Re: Appy Polly Loggies To: "Thompson. Jim" , SuperDuperRavers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk i just must agree! "if you meet resistance, you're probably on the right track!" ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ There seems to be a disturbing authoritarian attitude among many on this list. I don't care if it's right or left wing authoritarianism - when it comes down to it on a personal level, it's someone trying to tell you what you can and can't do with your own life...... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 11:30:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id LAA00982; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.online-la.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA00948; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:30:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from online-la.com (jbondy.online-la.com [206.29.15.96]) by mail.online-la.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01289; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:25:17 -0800 Message-ID: <32838A74.AE5@worldsite.net> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 11:31:00 -0800 From: ~^JBondy Reply-To: jbondy@worldsite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Anarch CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Flyers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Anarch wrote: > ugh. > Somewhere I have a terrible flyer from Limelight in NY. Yeah, I've got a few from Disco 2000 @ the Limelight that are pretty aweful. Featuring punk rock kids sticking their tongues out at you, with Clorox-like grfx. I guess it was ok at the time, since I did keep it. But, there was also one for Limelight that was flat, and you could fold it up into a lunchpail for all your raving goodies! ;?) *That's what I'd like to see more of; creativity in flyers.* Not just the graphics, but the whole concept, like people used to do. There is a book out called 'Tribes Scribes' which is a hard bound, beautifully full-color printed book of rave flyers from around the world. Focusing on LA, Milan, Tokyo, NYC, SF, Germany, England... you know.. everywhere. But, Mostly in California to my surprise. The book was around $20, purchased this summer at B Dalton. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 12:04:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA04262; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:04:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA04255; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:04:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:02:16 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA10686; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:02:16 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: Re: NRR: TWA Friendly Fire Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk As someone that was in the Navy for 7 years and the position I was in and things I've seen, the Navy, as well as the Military in general has to good of radars, and equipment to have something like a missles hit a plane with out doing it on purpose. They would have had to aim for it. Also I don't think that ANYONE would launch a missle without checking the radar. The radars I've seen are so good they can practically detect a fly that high in the sky. Plus they have warnings that would have sounded if anything was showing up on radar. So this, with my personal experience, is very hard to believe. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 12:13:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA05045; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:13:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from wired.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA05039; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:13:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.62.132.226] (pizint.hotwired.com [204.62.132.226]) by wired.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA26418; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:13:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:13:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: rawnsley@hotwired.com (Andrew Rawnsley) Subject: Flyers Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk With regard to the size and "coolness" of flyers, here's something to ponder: Promoters distribute flyers for the reason that they want people to attend their party. Savvy promoters know that the most efficient and friendly way to promote is actually through a mailing list/on the phone/word of mouth. Not surprisingly, the parties promoted like that usually turn out pretty good (in my experience, both to attend and play at.) Promoters who use flyers as a method of promotion do so because they want to attract more people to their event. Large flyers are not only wasteful of resources (especially huge gatefold/full-colour ones) but prompt the question, WHY? There is a level of one-upmanship amongst promoters (equalled only by that of DJs!) which is demonstrated admirably by the flyer. A flyer becomes the objectification of the party, available for all the world to see. It don't matter if the party stinks, the DJs promised don't show, and if "Peace, Love, Blah, Blah, Blah" statements are clearly not the motivation for the party. The flyer is the "big dick" ethos of the promoter. It's all about EGOTISM! This also explains the promoter who advertises their local party in national magazines. The super-clubs in the UK use their ads just the same way as banks or department stores: they create an image, marketing THEMSELVES in the process. Now where did the "real rave" go? I am very careful about MOTIVES. As a writer involved in the scene I have to be (people are always accusing you of something...) In my experience, not just in the scene but in general, someone who has something to prove usually goes around making a big fuss about it...hence the mega-flyer. Promoters who know wot's up don't need to. Think about it... So here we are, an "alternative" movement, yet once more falling into the ways and failings of mainstream fucked-up society. What a shame. Waxing lyrical 'bout 1971, the hangover of the '60s... ar From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 12:27:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA06526; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:27:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from emout02.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA06342; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:24:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA24762; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:24:07 -0500 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:24:07 -0500 Message-ID: <961108152406_1450576648@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: rawnsley@hotwired.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Flyers Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In a message dated 96-11-08 15:17:34 EST, you write: << motivation for the party. The flyer is the "big dick" ethos of the promoter. It's all about EGOTISM! >> wait a sec... your saying I have a small weenie! (Famtasia Flyers are small) You just wait, Famtasia 2 will make the ground zero flyer look like a post it! Ours will at least have to be folded 15 times. We are talking poster size, buddy!!! AHHHH!!!!! I think im sick in the head now!;) Jonathan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 12:28:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA06610; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:28:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns2.online-la.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA06601; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from online-la.com (jbondy.online-la.com [206.29.15.96]) by mail.online-la.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA01552; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:23:38 -0800 Message-ID: <32839820.588E@worldsite.net> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 12:29:20 -0800 From: ~^JBondy Reply-To: jbondy@worldsite.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Rawnsley CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Flyers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk To some, flyers are keepsakes of times past. We can look beyond the obvious fact that there real purpose is to attract, but there are some of the cooler underground ones with say a simple logo, black and white xerox with a name and a ph#. These are more like invitations, and less like advertisements. There is a big problem with flyers that turn into trash a few hits of E later. A lot of people don't think twive about throwing their collections of flyers on the ground, and then we all blame the promoters who brought them for the trash problem. Owners of the locations get pissed, and if it's out in the desert, it's far too obvious what group is responsible... So where do they put the blame? Not on just the responsible party, but the whole scene. So where do promoters draw the line with flyering a location? How do we solve the problem of waste vs advertising? This is real tricky. We could say "Well so and so is an as*hole promoter, so he shouldn't be able to flyer" but that's not fair. Sorry, I have no conclusion... and besides, I'm SCR, why do I keep posting up here? ;) JBondy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 12:32:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA06923; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom4.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA06913; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:32:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mayer@localhost) by netcom4.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id MAA07639; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:32:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199611082032.MAA07639@netcom4.netcom.com> To: MIKE BOLGER Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" Subject: Re: NRR: TWA Friendly Fire In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Nov 96 11:25:30 PST." Date: Fri, 08 Nov 96 12:32:05 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I heard this story a few weeks after the TWA bombing (early august '96) while travelling through beeutiful Breaux Bridge Louisiana (dat's CAJUN COUNTRY, Y'ALL). The person that told me (just one of those random people you talk to when you're travelling) was the wife of a army person, who said that this "friendly fire" knowledge was widespread within the army's upper ranks. I told her that I had heard the exact same story through the underground press. Of course, we don't know whether this is true, but given the multiple eyewitness reports of a bright object arcing through the sky towards the plane, then the sound of an explosion, it's not totally inconceivable. That, and the total lack of conclusions, overall secrecy they've operated under, and they've come up with no conclusions after multiple months of investigations by US Navy operatives! Now, some 4 months later, talk that was widely known in the underground press is finally making it to the mainstream media, and not through the media's own volition (it used to be the media's role was to ferret out stories like these, e.g. Watergate, the Chron's uncovering of staged prisoner fights at Corcoran, etc..) -- this time it happened because some old and well known reporter guy heard this story, saw the actual military report of it, and notified his reportage connections... Either that, or the knowledge of this was so widespread, that the media decided it was high time to jump on the bandwagon. Likewise, i had first heard about the Iran/Contra/Arms-for-hostages/CIA-cocaine dealing snafu in the underground press, and approximately 10-12 years later, they're taking the story seriously, e.g. Maxine Waters, reopened congressional hearings, and the San Jose Mercury story... but for a good 10 years, anybody mentioning this was laughed off the air as a "conspiracy theorist nut." (And let's not forget good ol' Bob Dole's central role in advocating the pardon and easy treatment of all the chief Iran/Contra operatives!) Yep, love our democracy, love our free press, love the way the right-wing CIA/military/shadow government covers up it's own criminals so effectively while we run around spouting crap about "democracy" and "being the freest nation in the world"... We used to complain about this kind of doublespeak and government censored press back when the USSR did it, but when it happens in our own back yard, it goes against our apple pie and yellow-ribbon sensibilities. Time for a change! PS: Ralph Nader for president in 2000! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 12:40:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA07705; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA07695; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA10914 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:40:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (sidewalk@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA19636 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:35:39 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:35:39 -0800 (PST) From: Timothy McIntyre To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: politix Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I've been following all the posts about the recent election with great interest, and I thought I'd give some of my thoughts back as well. Please forgive me if I start sounding preachy (I have a tendency to do that when I talk about politics, which I feel pretty passionate about.) I've noticed that people tend to take a pretty negative view towards politics in general. They say things like "Our leaders are out-of-touch, bureaucracy's stupid, our tax dollars are being wasted, elections and candidates are bought and sold by greedy corporations" etc. And most if not all of these comments, taken individually, are true. Yes, a lot of things about our government can be fixed. Many politicians are selfish. And there are a lot of disturbing and depressing statistics out there. But, even in the midst of the glossy TV advertisements and ten-second soundbytes, every now and the, amazing things can happen in a democracy. Does anyone really think that the politicians aren't *trying* to make things better? Is 1996 a worse time than 1956? or 1906? I think that whenever examining or talking about politics, it makes more sense to look at big trends, and not get caught up in the hundreds of little statistics which dominate today's airwaves. Environmental protection has increased during our lifetimes. Human rights have expanded during our lifetimes. Trade has increased during our lifetimes. Standard of living and life expectancy have increased. Literacy rates are climbing. Wars occur less frequently than they once did. I don't mean to be naive, and I'm not trying to smooth over the real and horrible problems which still do exist. I just think that the bigger picture, the longer timeline, is more important Look at prop 215--it passed! Isn't that wonderful?! And while I adamantly voted no on 209, I don't think that everyone who voted yes is evil or "doesn't get it." Did a lot of people vote yes on 209 because they are lashing out unreasonably against groups which have historically been oppressed? I'm sure a lot did. Did everyone? I don't know. I look at it this way: prop 209, in and of itself, was not wrong.; it was just out of its time. One day, I hope everyone thinks, our society will be mature enough to treat everyone equally, and there won't be a need for affirmative action laws to tell us that discrimination is idiotic. So, perhaps those who voted in favor of 209 were simply being prematurely idealistic, and not discriminatory. My point is that all sections of the political spectrum can offer something useful--even though I am a am a Democrat, for example, I don't believe Republicans don't have things to say which should be considered. Personally, I think we're really, really lucky to have Clinton as president. He's a centrist, and has said that he believes that "the truth lies in the middle." He's very much into the ideas of inclusion, education, and global connectedness. And I think that his philosophy has a tremendous amount in common with rave culture/PLUR! So I guess it irks me a little bit when I hear all the negativity towards politics--if the only feedback politicians get is "you're doing a bad job", the more hesitant they become, and the more they will try to appeal to the lowest common denominator, instead of governing creatively. Anyways, just had to get that off my chest! :) It just seems to me like the country is finally, actually starting to have a more thoughtful government, and no one seems to care or even notice the gradual change. best, Timothy ____________________________________________________________________ "Well because all my friends live here. I didn't want to move to Washington." -9 year-old daughter of Republican candidate William Weld, who lost the race to become senator of Massachusetts, in response to a reporter's question of why she wore a button supporting her dad's opponent. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 12:44:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA08035; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:44:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA07991; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:43:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA05532 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:43:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA28125; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:35:05 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:35:05 -0800 (PST) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: Berkeley Carpooling Under Way! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I've compiled the first edition of the Berkeley Ravers Carpool list, and there are 12 of us on it!! If you live in the immediate Berkeley vicinity, drop me a note to be included on the list. Or, you might want to start a carpool collective in your area! Yea, carpooling... ravers getting to all the parties they want, new friendships made, and helping out the environment along the way. :) :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 12:46:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA08273; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA08265; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:46:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:43:58 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.64] (vbarr.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA11195; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:43:58 -0800 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (knucklehead) Subject: BBQ&BEATS III Helpers and stuff Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk If you would like to help out with anything, let me know. If you want to bring any food or drink item let me know. That way we don't have too much of one thing. This one will be BIG, it's probally the last one for this year so let's do it up. I've made a deal with mother nature and there will be good weather that day. So come out and play. So if your interested, email me and we can go over some details. Thanks...and see ya at 2012 on Sat. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 12:47:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA08412; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:47:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell1.aimnet.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA08390; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:47:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rudir@localhost) by shell1.aimnet.com (8.8.2/SHELL) id MAA24609; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:46:14 -0800 (PST) From: Rudi Rughoonundon Message-Id: <199611082046.MAA24609@shell1.aimnet.com> Subject: Re: election daze To: mayer@netcom.com (Niels P. Mayer) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:46:14 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199611080756.XAA05131@netcom16.netcom.com> from "Niels P. Mayer" at Nov 7, 96 11:56:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I wear an Intel hat to raves sometimes .... does that count ? :) Rudi > > > > I believe: every day is election day, really. It's in how you spend your > > money. For starters, boycott Shell and Mitsubishi. > > And Texaco (racists!), and Nike (indonesian slave labor exploiters!), > and Exxon (alaskan oilspill assholes!). > > And quit wearing company advertizing on your clothing (unless it's a > really geeky "i'm a total computer dork" t-shirt that you wear to raves > to ensure that girlz will avoid you like the plague, in that case, it's > ok, except if it's like a miscrosoft or netscape T shirt, in which case > you should have silly fluffy animals forcibly superglued to your skin.) > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 12:52:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id MAA08756; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:52:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA08733; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:51:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from Ebay.Sun.COM ([129.150.111.20]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id MAA10869 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:51:18 -0800 Received: from dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM by Ebay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id MAA12851; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:51:15 -0800 Received: by dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA03974; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:49:29 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:49:29 -0800 From: guillermo.lemus@Ebay.Sun.COM (Guillermo Lemus) Message-Id: <199611082049.MAA03974@dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: TWA Friendly Fire X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Does this mean CNN is confirming reports? VERTIGO > From dislex@sfsu.edu Fri Nov 8 11:26:11 1996 > X-Authentication-Warning: orion.sfsu.edu: dislex owned process doing -bs > Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:25:30 -0800 (PST) > From: MIKE BOLGER > X-Sender: dislex@orion > To: Wolfchen@aol.com > cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com > Subject: Re: NRR: TWA Friendly Fire > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > ...the story is live on cnn now. > > On Mon, 9 Sep 1996 Wolfchen@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > Got one hell of a 'forward mail' sent to me. Had to pass it along to all that > > I know...take it as you will. > > > > -A > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > _ > > From: Genzmer Mike on Thu, 5 Sep, 1996 4:46 PM > > Subject: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > > To: Araujo Sheri; Chun, Claire; DeMartini Linda; Dersch Tim; Ellson Mark; > > Fitzpatrick Bob; Frank Mark; Heffernan Paul; Helseth Dave; Irvin Ed; Lindgren > > John; Lockhart Pam; Maddox Amy; Martin William; Parsons Tom; Schalk Rudy; > > Schlapfer Martin; Wilbur Curt; Wong Mike > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > _ > > From: Hinkle Al on Thu, Sep 5, 1996 3:45 PM > > Subject: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > > To: Alexandrov Anna; Alhadate Mark; Fujimoto Harold; Genzmer Mike; Glass > > Gary; Hank Smith; Hansen Jerry; Jaques Martin; Joe Eugene; Kirk John; Koide > > Dave; Lanham Lucy; McArdle Mark; McKnight John; Mogler Doug; Okamura Martha; > > Pace Gary; Paul Mike; Poeschl Mark; Poston Bob; PSumnicht@aol.com; Striegel > > Rhonda; Sumnicht Peter; Tom & Gail; Vail Cindy; Wysgoll Mike > > > > Hi gang, > > > > I have my doubts, but it certainly is interesting and explosive... > > > > --Al > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > _ > > From: Erwin Jodi on Thu, Sep 5, 1996 3:05 PM > > Subject: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > > To: Alexander Bruce nmi; Baessler Mike; Barkley Rick; Bataller Susan; Berg > > Jeff; Botelho Russ; Busse Franz; Cabral Bill; Case Gary; Cestari Drew; Chinn > > Don; Chiu Jenny; Chun Paul; Coombs Dick; Cordrey Rob; Dea Joann; DeBuhr Milt; > > Dietz Jerry; Djordjevic Nik; Druley Steve; Fieger Martin; Flaig Ken; > > Fortmeier Dave; Fugate David; Genzmer Mike; Gillin Joe; Glass Gary; Gonzalez > > Wayne; Hail Tom; Harris Clif; Hawes Duncan; Heinsohn Mike; Heise Ron; Hinkle > > Al; Horn Dick; Hubbard Barbara; Hubert, Peter; Hubka Bill; Ito Merrill; Jew > > Nelson; John Mergenthaler; Kay Robb; Kerr Earl; Kindall Rich; Lee Ellen; > > LeMay Kevin; Lohafer Phil; Mack Chris; Manning Mandy; Mar Lyman; Martinez > > Manny; McAvoy Tom; McNerney John; Meredith Peggy; Miller Chuck; Morrow John; > > Nederostek Rich; Nielson Joanne; Overstreet Brent; Palmer Steve; Pintner > > Steve; Plater John; Procopio Ben; Pustelnik Steve; Reppucci Carol; Roberts > > Owen; Sanders John; Shaver Kerry; Smith Dan; Snyder Jeff; Steelnack Bob; > > Thorne Rick; Todd Will; Trushel Rick; Vaurs Sandy; Weissman Jack; Yenne > > Wayne; Young Carolyn; Zajac, Frank S., LMTO > > > > Justing doing my part to spread rumors... > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > _ > > From: Cabral Bill on 5, Sep 1996 14:54 > > Subject: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > > To: Erwin Jodi; Hawes Duncan; Roberts Owen; Shaver Kerry > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > _ > > From: Manning Mandy on Thu, Sep 05, 1996 12:36 > > Subject: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > > To: BLOB; Bohn, Edmund J., Capt; Cabral Bill; Case Gary; Cline, Nate; > > CRopus@aol.com; Gebhart, Doug; HUTCH1234@aol.com; Jane Walz; Lincoln, Timothy > > J.; LTOC SOC-34 PA; McMickell@AOL.com; SDSeamons@aol.com; Seibert Michael; > > Trs4Frs@aol.com; Tyler Wall; Vaurs Sandy > > > > For those of you who like those conspiracy rumors..... this is a BIG one. > > > > MM > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > > _ > > From: Comfort, James Capt on Thu, Sep 5, 1996 12:25 PM > > Subject: FW: Fwd: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > > To: Manning Mandy; Parsons Harry; Born, Geri Ms; Swan, Steven Capt; Neri, > > John Capt; Traxler, Scott Capt; White, Kenneth LtC; Grey, Cynthia Capt; > > Yamaguchi, Paul Maj; Peer, Judith Capt; Smith, Robert; wade r. smith; > > Ansted, Jeffrey J.; Ballantine John T; cokerh; 'Cook, Tamara'; DeMars, > > Jerald, Capt /62064; DiFrancisco Mike; 'Mary and Dennis Newman'; > > 'Feild,Zan'; 'George.Comfort'; Hackett, Don, Civ /62088; 'Heller, > > Veronica'; 'Janet Lynn Carter'; moorej; 'Pavdog'; ramireza; 'Fero, Ralph'; > > Rizzuti, Karen Capt Det4/MIL; Schiller, Greggy; Spina, Louis, Maj > > /64943; TRCOP; Troup, Tom (Aero) /63099; Wong, Deidra, Civ > > /62010; Yeager, Louis, 1lt /64843; Yoshinaga, Tim, Capt /62104 > > > > > > Intriguing reading.....questions arise as to type of missile (ie heat seeker > > would hit engines and disable but not explode the whole plane, etc....) > > Wade, have you heard anything? > > Have fun.. > > JLC > > ---------- > > From: Uyehara, Gayle, Aero /63187 > > To: Henkle, Thomas G.; Davis, Jonathan R.; Keffer, John, Capt /64766; > > Pluhar, Christopher, Lt /64763; BACIOCDA; Comfort, James Capt; 'Tom > > McRorie'; UYEHRS > > Subject: FW: Fwd: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > > Date: Wednesday, September 04, 1996 14:59 > > > > > > interesting reading... > > ---------- > > > > ---------- > > > > FOR YOUR INFORMATION??? > > ---------- > > > > Subject: FW: Fwd: FW: Friendly Fire?...... > > Date: Wednesday, September 04, 1996 10:16AM > > > > I just received the following account of the downing of TWA flight 800 and > > thought I would share it with you. I cannot vouch for the validity of the > > information, but will admit that it is interesting. > > > > The message came to me from a man who was Safety Chairman for the Airline > > Pilots Association for many years and he is considered an expert on safety. > > He would not ever spread idle rumor. In short, he is usually quite certain > > > > before saying anything! > > > > Hang in there! Regards >=< Dick > > > > Subject: Friendly Fire? > > > > The following information about TWA Fight 800 was received this afternoon: > > (08-22-96 ) > > > > TWA flight 800 was shot down by a U.S. Navy guided missile ship which was in > > > > area W-105. W-105 is a Warning Area off the SouthEast coast of Long Island > > and is used by the military for missile firing and other military > > operations. > > > > Guided missile ships travel all over the world defending the US and they > > were conducting practice firings up over the top of a Navy P-3 radar plane > > who was on a Southwest heading about over the top of TWA 800. Evidently the > > > > missile is suppose to go over the top of the P-3 and the accuracy of the > > missile is being measured by instrumentation in the P-3. > > > > There was a USAir flight coming from the Southeast descending towards > > Providence, RI that had been cleared to 21,000 feet and the TWA 800 > > aircarft was restricted to 13,000 feet. The air traffic controller > > requested the USAir flight to turn on his landing lights with the idea that > > TWA might see his lights and identify him. At that point, he would clear > > the TWA flight to continue his climb. > > > > The P-3 was a non-beacon target (transponder OFF) flying southwest in the > > controlled airspace almost over TWA 800 and made NO calls to ATC. After the > > > > explosion, he continued his flight to the west and then called ATC and asked > > > > if they would like him to turn around and assist with the "accident!" > > > > You will remember that the first announcement about this accident came from > > the Pentagon. The spokesman mentioned that they were sending the Navy to > > the crash site. They immediately sent a Navy Captain who was replaced the > > next day by an Admiral. That Admiral is still on the scene. > > > > The FBI has conducted at least 3,000 eyewitness interviews and the NTSB has > > not been able to be a part of these interviews not have any access to the > > contents of them. Some of those eyewitnesses reported seeing lights. > > Those were probably the landing lights of the USAir plane. > > > > It has been a cover-up from the word go. The NTSB is there in name ONLY. > > All announcements made by Mr. Bob Francis say absolutely nothing and notice > > that the FBI is always standing beside or behind Mr. Francis and it would > > appear that his job is to make sure that nothing is said that would give > > away "THE BIG SECRET!" > > > > It is time to end this farce and tell the public the real truth as to what > > happened to TWA 800. > > > > My source shall remain my own but the above information is true and I > > believe it will all become known soon. Now that all of you know the real > > truth. > > > > END============================================================== > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 13:12:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA11029; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:12:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mas.atext.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA11014; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:12:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from johnk.atext.com (johnk-pc.atext.com [198.3.97.157]) by mas.atext.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA08443 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:13:23 -0800 Message-ID: <3283A29F.2026@excite.com> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 13:14:07 -0800 From: John Kawamoto Organization: Excite, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR room for rent in SF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi! I'm currently looking for a roommate to share a 3 bedroom, 2 bath condo in the city...here's some of the highlights: Central location near Geary / Laguna. Easy on off freeways via Gough / Franklin. All electric kitchen, dishwasher, garbage disposal, washer/dryer in unit. 7th story views in all rooms, living room has patio, the 3 bedrooms have sliding glass door that opens out to small walk out balcony. Walk to restaurants (Japan Town), grocery (Bell Market, Whole Foods), movies (Kabuki, theatres on Van Ness), health club (24hr Nautilus), just about anywhere in SF. 24hr doorman. Very secure building. Easy street parking. NEVER have problems finding street parking. Prefer non-cigarette smoking, raver friendly roommate. I'm hardly ever home during the week and only go back up to SF for the week- end...I work in Mt. View. Solid thick cement walls/floor so each room has pretty good sound insulation! Rent $1895 / 3 or 4 depending if 2 people were to share the master bedroom with it's own bathroom. Short term lease still being negotiated. Please email me privately if you're interested or call me at (415) 921-7045 home or (415) 237-0122 work. If I'm not at home please try to leave a message on my work voicemail too since I'm using it as my own personal answering machine. Peace! John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 13:21:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA12225; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom4.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA12220; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:21:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom4.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id NAA11547; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:21:30 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:21:30 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "John S. Lee" Subject: GaRBLEDEEGOOK... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Sorry for the garbled messages. I am going to stop posting (I hear the roars of happiness! Stop that!) until I figure it out. Until then...to all the warrirors on both sides: I'm glad we took the time to talk about the issues. I persoanlly think this is the step we should've taken a long time ago to address our racial concerns. But I'm glad we took time out of partying and talking about partying to talk about something that affects everyone in this scene, this state and this country. Peace out, John Now to figure out what is fucking up my posts....damn! Audi. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 13:29:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id NAA13019; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.wrs.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA13007; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:29:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from blackcomb ([147.11.45.27]) by mail.wrs.com with SMTP id AA13323 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:29:31 -0800 Message-Id: <3283A55E.248@mail.wrs.com> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 13:25:50 -0800 From: George Jimenez Reply-To: georgej@wrs.com Organization: Wind River Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; U) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: YES ON 209? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG wrote: > > At my college there are more people of color, propertionatly, then there > is in every single higher education institution in England combined. What > the fuck is everyone complaining about? People round here have already > got it to good to be true but that is not enough for them and they still > complain like spoilt children. If 52% of my college is women then they > don't need affirmative action. > Don't forget that the real sickness that affirmative action should try to > cure is one of poverty and not ethical denomination. If you are poor you > will do less well at college, reguardless of your ethnicity. All these > Asian kids going around in there brand new Hondas and living at home with > mummy and daddy do not need affirmative action; they need a good kick up > the arse. > And also, I hate this thing of if a proposition does not go your way you > block it in the courts so it never really comes into effect legally. If a > proposition passes it should pass; and the courts and the legal system > should deal with it; changing other conflicting laws if needed. > Otherwise, what is the point of having elections on propositions in the > first place? It's just another effort by the status quo to lull us into > the false sence of security that our voice really does count. In short, > it's all bullshit. > And while I did vote no on prop 209 I do not agree with affirmative > action. If it is supposed to help people from the ethnic minorities where > are all the programs for Jewish kids? Answer there not their. Why? > Because people think that all Jewish people are middle class and educated; > this is a lie. When there are affirmative actions programs for Jewish > people I will then support affirmative action and not until. We, as a > race, are descriminated from by all sides of the political spectrum and it > has got to stop. In short, the people who are anti 209 are just as racist > as the people who support it. > We all live in the most amazing country in the world with the least > ammount of racism contained with in it. Lets all stop feeling so sorry > for ourselves and be happy with what we've got. Because at the end of the > day that is all anyone can hope for: to be treated the same as everybody > else. > Tristan. Hello, Yes, I'm harping on this same issue. Tristan says at HER college there more people of color than at all British colleges combined. However, that is HER college and most other places are unlike the SF Bay Area. What is everybody complaining about? That it might no longer be like that and things will REGRESS instead of PROGRESS. Why assume that people have it so good? Since when? DO people REALLY have it so good or else why does racism and inequality still exist (INCLUDING WOMEN). There is a reason why Asians are excluded from affirmative action (and this isn't my opinion, it's factual) and that is because they, along with Jewish people, have achieved what's called "Model Minority" status, meaning that they are not regarded as academically inferior and have high visibility in academia. A LOT has to do with social attitudes towards minorities. Social attitudes towards Asians and Jews in regards to education are not the same as with other minorities. Society already EXPRECTS these people to excel, while, say Latinos and Blacks are not. If they were, then we wouldn't need the programs that 209 abolishes to ENCOURAGE and ENSURE that these people (including women) get their foot in the door. That is why Latinos have the HIGHEST drop out rate in the country (more than any other minority) because social expectations of them. At my high school (which was 90% Latino), the only students who got extra attention from teachers about college were the ones in honors classes. The rest got pretty much ignored or influenced to just settle on (at most) junior college. They were just as capable of entering universities had they been pushed but that was not expected of them. Do you see what I mean? Why are we complaining? Because there is NOT ENOUGH VISIBILITY in society! Do women currently hold as many positions of power as men do? I don't think so. Do we see fair representation of people of color in almost any other sphere (especially academia and careers)? No. There is still a dominance by non-ethnic (for lack of better word), straight males and that inspires a hopelessnes in those who should be striving to move upwards in society. It's telling people that they CAN'T and that any efforts are futile. They feel locked out while they SHOULD strive for something better. I know not ALL Jewish people and Asian people are educated or middle-class but at least society doesn't consider them inferior or incompetent. But the numbers prove they far exceed other minorities. Why do you think people acknowledge that, say, "Hollywood is run by Jews"? Because they have RISEN (hence, the term "model minority"). And that's great. Jewish people and Asians should be proud to have achieved that status. Discrimination IS NOT THE SAME FOR EVERYBODY ON EVERY LEVEL. Sure, Asians and Jews get discriminated against and face racism, etc. But next time, count the number of them at school and see if it outweighs the number of black and latinos. The way society looks at people will reflect on their achievements. And our social outlook is heavily influenced by those in power (straight, white, upper-middle class) It is really sad that we have such a huge Latino population in this nation but very little visiblity. I'm not complaining like a "spoilt child" as Tristan says. I have been there and I am RISING and I want to ensure that others do as well. Peace. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 14:04:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA16449; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:04:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA16423; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:04:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv1.apple.com (A17-128-100-119.apple.com [17.128.100.119]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA54074 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:04:07 -0800 Received: from [17.221.21.117] (greej2.apple.com [17.221.21.117]) by scv1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA95196 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:05:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199611082205.OAA95196@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Politics OFF LIST!!! Date: Fri, 8 Nov 96 14:06:05 -0000 x-sender: green2@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Jason Green To: "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk EVERYONE!!! PLEASE TAKE ALL THIS TALK ABOUT POLITICS AND THE LIKE OFF THE LIST!!!!! Not everyone wants to hear about this! This is a RAVE mailing list! The election is OVER! Reply to eachother privately! It's not that hard! Thank you very much, Jason Go-Ahead-And-Flame-Me Green From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 14:19:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA17736; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:19:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA17727; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.com (8.8.2/8.7.1) id OAA12786; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:18:31 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199611082218.OAA12786@xanadu.cyborganic.com> Subject: Re: NRR: TWA Friendly Fire To: guillermo.lemus@Ebay.Sun.COM (Guillermo Lemus) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:18:30 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199611082049.MAA03974@dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM> from "Guillermo Lemus" at Nov 8, 96 12:49:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >From CNN Interactive: [CNN logo] [Main banner] [Image] [navigation] [Search] [rule] Federal agencies deny TWA Flight 800 shot down by missile They reconfirm that Internet [TWA graphic] report false November 8, 1996 Web posted at: 1:00 p.m. EST WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Federal investigators, the White House and U.S. Navy strongly denied Friday there was any reason to believe TWA Flight 800 was accidentally shot down by a missile fired from a Navy ship. The agencies planned to hold a news conference at 2 p.m. EST Friday afternoon. The July 17 crash killed 230 people. [Salinger] The denial followed remarks Thursday in Cannes, France, by Pierre Salinger, a former White House press secretary and ABC Television correspondent, that he had evidence the jetliner was brought down by "friendly fire" and the incident was being covered up by the government. Federal officials denied Salinger's report. "There's no indication that there's any credibility to the report," Deputy White House Press Secretary Mary Ellen Glynn said Friday morning. Earlier, a Navy spokesman told CNN: "It's not possible that a missile was fired at the plane and we've covered it up." And, an NTSB investigator said: "There is no evidence of any missile fire bringing down that plane -- unequivocally." Investigators on the case have been frustrated over their inability to determine whether a bomb, missile or mechanical malfunction caused the explosion off New York's Long Island. Salinger was press spokesman for President John F. Kennedy before becoming Paris Bureau Chief for ABC. Document on Internet Salinger said he was basing the claims on information he saw in a document given to him six weeks ago by someone in French Intelligence with close contacts to U.S. officials. He refused to identify the source. Later, however, he learned from CNN that the document actually was a widely accessible e-mail letter that has been circulating for at least six weeks on the Internet's World Wide Web. Salinger expressed surprise and verified that his document matched those CNN showed him. "Yes. That's it. That's the document," Salinger said. "Where did you get it?" The document has been widely distributed over the Internet through e-mails and other outlets. It claims the Paris-bound Boeing 747 was struck by a Navy Aegis missile shortly after takeoff from New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport. The jumbo jet crashed in the Atlantic Ocean off the coast of Long Island, killing everyone aboard. The National Transportation Safety Board, FBI and Navy have repeatedly denied the report. The Navy said it could not have shot down the plane because it had no weapons in the area to do so, and pointed out that federal investigators had already found that possibility "without merit." "We've tracked any Navy assets in the area and there's nothing different. There was nothing in the area that could have done that. There's nothing more to add," Lt. Cmdr. Susan Haeg, a Navy spokeswoman, said. Another Navy official scorned Salinger's earlier claim. "I would find that unbelievable," the official said, asking to remain anonymous. The official said the Navy keeps logs to account for the positions of its ships and any firings of its weapons systems. A streak of light The missile theory has stayed alive because of the number of reports from other pilots in the area and witnesses on shore who claim to have seen streaks of light or something similar around the time of the crash. A New York Air National Guard unit put out a press release Friday as the latest rumors were circulating reiterating that two of its helicopter pilots "witnessed a streak of light" around the time of the explosion. A statement faxed to news organizations, including CNN, by the 106th Rescue Wing based at Gabfbreski Air National Guard Station at Westhampton, New York, said: "The two helicopter pilots that saw TWA (flight) 800 explode on the night of July 17 have not changed their statements, according to a base spokesman. "Major Frederick Meyer, the pilot, and Captain Cristian Baur, the co-pilot, both saw a streak of light, moving from east to west prior to the initial explosion. Both pilots, who have made statements to the FBI, do not know what caused the streak of light." The flight report the pilots filed the night of the crash with the Federal Aviation Administration reflects what they now say they believe they saw. The FBI has acknowledged that some pilots in the area that night saw streaks of light but has not publicly identified those pilots. [rule] Special section: * TWA: Flight 800 Related stories: * Trawlers pull up pieces of TWA Flight 800's fuel tank - November 7, 1996 * TWA divers make their last chilly plunge - November 2, 1996 * FBI questions crash victims' families about mysterious luggage tag - October 27, 1996 * Divers recover fuel probes from center tank - October 24, 1996 * TWA crash investigators study newly-recovered fuel probes - October 24, 1996 [rule] Tell us what you [What You Think] think! [Image] [Image] You said it... [rule] [To the top] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 14:19:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA17771; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:19:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA17751; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:19:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id OAA21034; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:19:01 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199611082219.OAA21034@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: Re: GaRBLEDEEGOOK... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:19:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "John S. Lee" at Nov 8, 96 01:21:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves ] Recently, John S. Lee apologized: > Sorry for the garbled messages. I am going to stop posting (I hear the > roars of happiness! Stop that!) until I figure it out. That's OK - I started overloading about 48 hours ago and started to delete any post with "209" or "215" or "reverse" or "quota" or "larryc" (woops!) in the subject line - unread. If any of the involved parties are offended by that, just EMAIL me about it, please don't post to the list too! > Until then...to all the warrirors on both sides: > I'm glad we took the time to talk about the issues. I persoanlly think > this is the step we should've taken a long time ago to address our racial > concerns. But I'm glad we took time out of partying and talking about > partying to talk about something that affects everyone in this scene, this > state and this country. At least one good thing to come out of this Prop. 209 thing for sure. Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com PS - Hey John , your subject line was ==> "Subject: GaRBLEDEEGOOK..." Wadda mean by that GOOK crap, huh!?! Nobody better try and garble ME! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 14:55:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id OAA20734; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:55:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from wired.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA20724; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:54:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [204.62.132.181] (megalon.hotwired.com [204.62.132.181]) by wired.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA23733; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:54:47 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199611082218.OAA12786@xanadu.cyborganic.com> References: <199611082049.MAA03974@dtbds5.EBay.Sun.COM> from "Guillermo Lemus" at Nov 8, 96 12:49:29 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:54:45 -0800 To: Troy Sheets , guillermo.lemus@Ebay.Sun.COM (Guillermo Lemus) From: Brian Benitez Subject: Re: NRR: TWA Friendly Fire Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 2:18 PM -0800 11/8/96, Troy Sheets wrote: >>From CNN Interactive: > > > [CNN logo] [Main banner] [Image] > [navigation] > > [Search] [rule] > > Federal agencies deny TWA Flight 800 shot down by > missile > > They reconfirm that Internet [TWA graphic] > report false > > November 8, 1996 > Web posted at: 1:00 p.m. EST > > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Federal investigators, the > White House and U.S. Navy strongly denied Friday > there was any reason to believe TWA Flight 800 was > accidentally shot down by a missile fired from a > Navy ship. The one thing that makes the navy missile theory completely implausble for me is: Why the hell would the Navy be conducting ANY millitary excersises (especially those involving live ammunition) ANWYHERE near a major metropolitan area such as off the coast of Long Island, NY? You do that kind of stuff way far out - where there's nothing to hit - not near the biggest city in the US with 3 major metropolitan airports... -- Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 15:26:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id PAA23358; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA23324; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:25:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA07381; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:25:50 -0800 Received: from ccMail by CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM (SMTPLINK V2.11 PreRelease 4) id AA847495687; Fri, 08 Nov 96 15:14:10 PST Date: Fri, 08 Nov 96 15:14:10 PST From: "Ciaran OHara" Message-Id: <9610088474.AA847495687@CCMAIL.AIRTOUCH.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: A guy called Gerald ??? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In a recent posting someone mentioned a Guy called Gerald in relation to the CHem Bros show. Does anyone know if and when he is playing ? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 16:12:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA27277; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 16:12:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA27260; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 16:11:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id QAA09851; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 16:11:37 -0800 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id QAA07330; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 16:11:31 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 16:11:31 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Appy Polly Loggies To: "Thompson. Jim" cc: sfraves - send mail to list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 8 Nov 1996, Thompson. Jim wrote: > > I agree. I'll shut up! I just find it SO INFURIATING ;-) > when people say things on this list that can be so > easily checked for accuracy - if people would just > make the effort. > > There seems to be a disturbing authoritarian attitude > among many on this list. I don't care if it's right or > left wing authoritarianism - when it comes down to > it on a personal level, it's someone trying to tell you > what you can and can't do with your own life...... I've got the strangest feeling that you were looking into a mirror as you typed this. Strange. peas, Ran (Namasate) / -=*=-/ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 16:51:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id QAA00645; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 16:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from yam.tenetwork.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA00637; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 16:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from Feynman.tenetwork.com (feynman.tenetwork.com [10.10.2.99]) by yam.tenetwork.com (8.7.6/8.7.2) with SMTP id QAA00279 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 16:45:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3283E426.2C4D@ten.net> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 17:53:42 -0800 From: Pengo Reply-To: Pengo@ten.net Organization: Pengo Productions X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re:politix NRR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >> So I guess it irks me a little bit when I hear all the negativity towards politics--if the only feedback politicians get is "you're doing a bad job", the more hesitant they become, and the more they will try to appeal to the lowest common denominator, instead of governing creatively. >> I love it when people say there is no one good to vote for for Pres. Would YOU want a job that will A)end in 4/8 years b) get the press into your private life c) Get you nothing but complaints in how you do your job? -=Pengo=- Blake "Pengo" Merriam "How am I spinning? Call 1-800-VYNL-RLZ" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 17:11:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA02352; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:11:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom9.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA02347; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:11:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (from madox@localhost) by netcom9.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA22496; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:11:19 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:11:19 -0800 (PST) From: TEMPoNAUT Subject: Re: Complexion of Raves (was:Re: Systematic Racism...this happens everyday!) To: Geoff White cc: Yvonne Yan Sham-Shackleton , "John S. Lee" , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199611081535.HAA03611@precipice.v-site.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > Yes this is distressing to me as well, parties are fragmenting allong racial/ > cultural lines. geee....i really wanted to stay out of all this conversations about race and what not. but now...someone just cant figure out why parties are doing this....well DUH!!! can we say "MULTICULTURALISM!??!" anyone???? "CELEBRATE DIVERSITY" yeah...these are the reasons why you have people sticking to their own races. when you tell people to stay with their own culture, what do you think is going to happen? do you really think people are going to all get along like its some fluffy commune?? hell no. you (democrates, liberals, etc..) are telling people not to become americans. but to become hyphen americans. yeah. thats the ticket..isnt it? not. go to CSUH and take a look in the student union...you'll see all the asians in one group, all the blacks in another, all the hispanics in yet another, and the whites in one more. no one talks to eachother. why?? because of your completely idiotic statements such as "Multiculturalism," and "diverse" and whatnot. no one will talk to eachother when you guys set the ground rules such as that. yeah. thanks for your fuck-ups in the '60s From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 17:36:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id RAA04196; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA04187; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:36:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA07885 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA02437; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:27:23 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 17:27:21 -0800 (PST) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: Immediate 209 Impacts (UCB) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Following is a letter from the Provost of Academic Affairs to all the UC Chancellors, on immediate implementation of 209. The instantaneous effects on thousands of young people are obvious. Friends, I haven't had the luxury of following the debate here, though I wish I had because political/social discussion is so very important. If I repeat things others have said, apologies. My 2c (there's at least 98c more, but I'll spare you!) Consider this: most experts agree the elimination of affirmative action means less representation of women and minorities in higher ed, higher-paying jobs, and gov't contracts. If we really do have a level playing field, then the only possible explanation for white male ascendancy is that they are actually more qualified than others. Well, this notion of "genetic superiority" has been totally discarded by science, about a century ago. So, the alternate explanation remains: barriers, especially historical discrimination and lowered social status of women and minorities, still exist that limit these peoples' life opportunities. Affirmative action sought to address these barriers. Now it is gone without any other sort of remedy in its place. UCB forecasts a drop of 60-70% in minority enrollment. Women still only comprise 2% of top executives, and make up the vast majority of those impoverished, so I'm not sure what a "decline" would look like from there! Affirmative action was a tool to help address inequities - a hope that it could change things. 30 years and we still have unbelievable social problems, but prospects for women and minorities have greatly improved. We have a LONG way to go. All of my professors were men. Out in the workworld, I have found that the executives and the decision-makers are men, and the secretaries and the assistants are women. Examples of the stratified social structure are endless, because an unequal society is what we have. Do you all really believe this is based solely on merit?? Look at the earnings of white men compared to other groups, their educational attainment, their standard of living and their status in society. There is no question that, as a group, white men have the most power and privilege in our society. The real question, to me, is WHY? How do we address the real, underlying issues? Socioeconomic differences that act as "tracks" - the middle class off to college, the impoverished to crime, welfare or the legions of "working poor" (who outnumber welfare recipients, by the way!!) Gender notions that inform attitudes towards people (do you really believe women are more respected as students/thinkers/businesspeople than men?) Historical legacy of racism. Social networks. And on and on. Our entire social/economic system is implicated in the origin of the extreme inequality we face. People, Affirmative action was just a bandaid - it was an EASY OUT to allow some measure of possibility for women and minorities in a system set up on economic inequality and white and male dominance. Instead of questioning our society, it fundamentally accepts the system and merely trys to rectify the total exclusion of women and minorities by opening a few doors, if you can do the work to get there and go beyond. It is a CONSERVATIVE RESPONSE to systemic inequality. It takes the place of revolution. Affirmative action is not about rewarding the "unqualified". I absolutely work my hardest - but the glass ceiling is damn hard to break no matter how hard you slam up against it. Affirmative action was just the sugar to help all of us swallow racism and sexism, some crumbs to combat the massive barriers of our race or sex. Now, those small crumbs of affirmative action have been taken away and we're left with the same problems. So now that the number of women and minorities will decline at our best universities and in better-paying jobs, and white men will grasp all of the fruits from the tree, we can sit back and smile and say, "what a lovely, nondiscriminatory society we have!" PS The term "white men" clumps all people who demographically fit into this category. Any categorizing is unfair. I totally understand the anger of well-meaning men for being so vilified. I use the term in a sociological sense. It is important to realize that as a group, this "group" has enjoyed immense privilege. When women and minorities fight for inclusion, it is because we feel that our degraded economic and social status compared to the most powerful group is unfair and without basis. Who started this? Who is responsible? Who cares?? I hope we can recognize that "white men" are in a higher position without it meaning that particular men are evil or that it is a grand conspiracy or whatever. Peace to all. Affirmative action was about rectifying the inequality between all people. It is in that spirit that I defend it. Read on for the future of higher education: >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >November 6, 1996 > >CHANCELLORS > >Dear Colleagues: > >In light of yesterday's passage of Proposition 209, and the fact that it becomes law today, I am writing to provide you with specific guidance about how to implement the Proposition. I wish to reiterate that the University of California strongly is committed to the goal of a diverse faculty, staff and student body and will do all it can, under the law and within Regental policy, to achieve that goal. > >The following specific steps that should be taken are based primarily on General Counsel Holst's October 4, 1996 letter regarding the potential impact on the University of Proposition 209. As pointed out in that letter, it is possible that there could be a court order prohibiting immediate implementation of Proposition 209; however, absent such an order, we should proceed with the steps indicated below: > >1. Hiring and contracting programs: > >Since Regents' resolution SP-2 went into effect on January 1, 1996, and contains the same prohibitions regarding preferences as does Proposition 209, there is no need to take any further action in these areas at this time. > >2. Admissions programs: > >Admissions decisions made after the date of this letter should not include consideration of race, sex, color, ethnicity or natural origin. > >a. Graduate and Professional school admissions: > >Regents' resolution SP-1 is in effect for graduate and professional students currently applying to the University, for admission to the Fall 1997 class. Under SP-1 race, sex, color, ethnicity and national origin are eliminated as selection criteria and, therefore, no further action need be taken. > >b. Undergraduate admissions: > >Implementation of SP-1 for undergraduate admissions was to take effect for students applying for enrollment for Spring 1998. However, in light of the passage of Proposition 209, effective immediately, campuses may no longer use race, ethnicity, sex or national origin as one of the supplemental criteria used to select admitted students from the pool of eligible students. Students are applying this month to enroll in Fall 1997. These applicants were notified of the possibility of such a change (see page 5 of the Application for Undergraduate Admission and Scholarship, 1997-98). > >3. Financial aid: > >The General Counsel has recommended the suspension of all future financial aid awards under which any recipient is advantaged or disadvantaged because of race, ethnicity, gender or national origin. Financial aid commitments to individual students made prior to the passage of the Proposition should continue to be honored. Students receiving financial aid awards under Federal financial programs in which race, ethnicity or gender is a condition of the aid, or must be a factor in distributing the aid, may continue to receive these awards. Under Proposition 209, the University can continue to accept and administer such Federal funds. > >For financial aid programs funded through University or State funds, the University no longer may utilize race, ethnicity, national origin or gender as factors taken into account to select recipients for disbursement of these funds. Campuses may continue administering University financial support recruitment programs (i.e., the graduate level Academic Career Development Program, and various campus recruitment programs such as the Chancellor's Scholarships) as long as race, ethnicity and gender no longer are used as criteria for selecting aid recipients. > >The University has received numerous gifts and endowment funds that contain specific requirements for distribution by race, ethnicity, gender or national origin. Policies and procedures for distribution of these funds are being reviewed by General Counsel and my office with regard to how to make appropriate uses of these funds. > >4. Outreach programs: > >The University has made commitments for the 1996-97 academic year to schools, students, counselors and employees affected by a variety of existing outreach programs. These programs are expected to continue and remain open to all students regardless of race, ethnicity and gender. Proposition 209 may ultimately be interpreted to require further action, but any action should be deferred pending review of the Outreach Task Force recommendations. > >5. Other UC race, ethnic, or gender attentive programs: > >There may be campus-based programs that utilize race, ethnicity, or gender as factors in determining eligibility to participate, even though such programs are not exclusionary. No immediate action should be required if membership for such programs for this year already has been determined. The Chancellors should assure that race, ethnicity, gender, national origin, or religion, are not considered in future eligibility determinations. My office, along with the General Counsel's office, will be available to work with the campuses in order to identify such programs and to develop appropriate changes that need to occur. > > >Sincerely, > >C. Judson King >Provost and Senior Vice President >Academic Affairs > > From owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 19:00:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA10132; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA10125; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:00:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:00:52 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Behlendorf To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: test (don't read, don't respond) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk just testing some mailing list stuff here, don't respond... Brian --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- brian@hyperreal.com http://www.apache.org http://www.organic.com/jobs From owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 19:02:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA10327; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:02:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA10322; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:02:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:02:41 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Behlendorf To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: test, please ignore Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm just testing some mailing list stuff here, please ignore. Brian --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- brian@hyperreal.com http://www.apache.org http://www.organic.com/jobs From owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 19:07:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA10677; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:07:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from libra.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA10668; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:06:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from glow@localhost) by libra.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id TAA02062; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:06:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:06:51 -0800 (PST) From: BRUCE ALVIN MCDONOUGH Message-Id: <199611090306.TAA02062@libra.sfsu.edu> To: green2@apple.com Subject: Re: Politics OFF LIST!!! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Jason, i suppose you're right, but people don't like cops busting up their party, either. Bruce From owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 19:07:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA10729; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA10707; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:07:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from wck-ca4-24.ix.netcom.com (shawna-@wck-ca4-24.ix.netcom.com [199.35.213.152]) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA07179 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:06:17 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:06:17 -0800 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961107195125.0ca780ce@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: shawna-@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (Frisco Freaks) From: The Laffin Happy Trip Farmer Subject: Re: YES ON 209? This is for Starchild et. al. Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk haven't read sfraves mail for a while, caught the tail end of this one. Guess I'll just waste a bit more bandwidth on it! :) >> (And DAMN I thought I was thru ;) ). For centuries white males have had >> Affirmative Action. You want a job Mikey, let me make a call. You want >> a promotion thomas, why don't you come to our club, it's exclusive you >> know. I'm sorry, we had to decline your loan, you live in a high risk >> district. I'm sorry , our club has stopped accepting applications at >> this time. I'm sorry, the apartment for rent was just rented. > >Can you give me that phone number John? Seems I have been missing out on >something... Sounds like you'll be pleased to learn John, that nowadays, banks often *turn down* loans to borrowers because they *don't* live in those same districts. Entire loan program structures are set up specifically for people who live in those districts, or who make less money, where if you *dont* live in a specific neighborhood, or you *do* make too much money, you don't qualify for the loan. "I'm sorry Thomas, you make too much money/you don't live in East Palo Alto/wherever, we had to decline your loan" How's that for restitution? And you should see how our bank offices (and a lot of others I'm sure) bend over backwards to keep from firing minority/female employees that really should not keep their jobs for fear of being sued into the ground with some huge lawsuit where the employee accuses the bank of racism/prejudice/whatever, cuz so many people wave the racism stick around. White men certainly don't get that from what I've seen. >> Affirmative Action: This is necessary as a measure of restitution for >> pattern discrimination. However, why AA has failed has been a mystery. > >Or one could say more plainly: "Two wrongs make a right." Exactly the thought I had the other day. As far as why AA has failed, I find it to be similar to a lot of other concepts humanity has come up with that, in theory, are actually very good ideas, I believe. I think in theory, AA can be a very good idea. But I've discovered that humanity has one fuck of a time applying good theories to real life, something gets lost in the "translation" so to speak. The end result seems quite different than what was originally intended when the plan was thought out. The idea of allowing minorities & women equal access to jobs/education/etc is of course a grand idea. At my office (BofA), white males are quite a minority actually, and all the ethnic people & women are quite qualified to do my job. To me, my office is very representative of how I think things should be; there's a damned even mix of *everybody* working at my office, and we're all qualified to do the jobs we were hired for. For a while, all the higher-up managers were women, there were no men. We even had one person working there who had aids. Our office is simply run and operated by people. If we have AA to thank for that, then that's just fine by me. To me, that end result is what I find positive about AA. However, I hear too much about being told to not bother applying for ABC College or whatever if you're white, cuz they have too many white people and you'd never get in, or about having to fill the "quota", even at the expense of not hiring qualified workers at ABC Bank. I'd hate to not get a job because I was white, or to get a job because I was a woman. I never want to be hired based on *anything* but my qualifications to do that job. And I also have a problem with the idea of "owing something" to minorities for wrongs in the past. I don't feel like I owe anybody anything for things done to anybody in the past, as I did not do them myself. As a woman, I don't feel that anybody owes me anything for any wrongs committed to women in the past. All I will ask for, and all I will give, is equal treatment from and to people now; I will not make up for wrongs I myself did not commit any more than I will ask you to. Yes, white people have majorly fucked over a *lot* of people in the past, I'm stunned by what I've learned at times, but a) I myself did not do any of that, and b) no matter how justified your anger against that is, it will not actually, imo, assist towards any furthering of true equality amongst people now. Two wrongs do *not* make a right (altho three lefts do), only attempting to do the right thing now will. >> Audi, I'm gonna go and riot in Specific Whites, I mean Pacific Heights. >> When we humans finally destroy each other, an inevitability the way we've >> been going (I'm suprised we're still here actually), there will only be >> one thing left. A sign left by a stranger that reads "We coulda been >> contenders." An epitaph for humans...if we don't start caring about each >> other. > >Absolutely correct. Nancy made a good point in the first part of her >statement on the subject of 209 when she stated "Wouldn't it be nice if we >lived in a color-blind... society, but we don't yet." (I am paraphrasing >of course.) And as long as we continue to discriminate against one >another, we have no hope of achiving that goal. Things were the way they were, & they shouldn't have been. Things are the way they are, and they shouldn't be. I really believe the only way to true equality is that everybody pretty much has to give up on everything, forget wrongs in the past as much as it hurts to do so, stop committing them in the present even if you feel justified because of the past wrongs, and simply live life as though we were all purple and asexual! :) Before being white, before being female, I am first and foremost a human being, and wish to be treated so, end of story. These other things should have no bearing on anything no matter what, they are irrelevant. This goes for everybody. End of story. Love, Shawna Do not go gentle into that good night. Rave! Rave into the dawning of the light! * * * * * * * * * * * * * \|/ * * * * --O-- * * * /|\ * \O/ | _____/_\_____ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 19:35:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA12658; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom23.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA12644; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:35:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mayer@localhost) by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id TAA23176; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:35:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199611090335.TAA23176@netcom23.netcom.com> To: Troy Sheets Cc: "San FranDisco Ravers List" Subject: Re: NRR: TWA Friendly Fire In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Nov 96 14:18:30 PST." <199611082218.OAA12786@xanadu.cyborganic.com> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 96 19:35:24 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk interesting thing is that i heard about the friendly fire rumour *WAY* before it was sent around on the internet. once, on some "conspiracy theory" radio show, and shortly after that, verbally from the very talkative wife of an army officer when i was playing tourist in cajun-country parts of Lousiana (i jest luv 'dem swamps n' gaters, file gumbo, and people speaking french with a weird accent); naturally, i found it very strange when the "friendly fire" SPAM started making it's way around the internet, and even stranger when the official denials started flowing... i've seen this kind of spin control before... Remember a few years ago when veterans returning from the gulf war started complaining about "gulf war sickness"; the military *STRONGLY* denied that desert storm veterans were exposed to any germ warfare or chemical weapons while on duty; despite this, many thousands became ill with a wide variety of inexplicable symptoms -- in response to this, the government further denigrated it's victims (both on TV and in the press) telling them to quit acting like sissies, and calling them "fakers" that wanted to cash in on lawsuits, etc. then, last year, scientists came forward saying that gulf war syndrome might be caused by the "cocktail" of immunizations and chemical weapons antidotes given to soldiers before they were shipped off to the front lines; and just recently, the pentagon has fully admitted that up to 10000 soldiers may have been exposed to sarin gas when some bunkers were blown up, and that they were attempting to track down these veterans... now we're finding evidence that the army knew damn well about what happened, and some believe that the large number of friendly fire deaths reported were actually horrible deaths from exposure to chemical weapons at a bunker blown up by the US army. (the soldiers were told they needn't wear their chemical weapons masks -- the survivors just happened to be disobeying ordfers and wearing their chem-suits anyways). so no, i really don't tend to believe the armed forces when they rush to deny such allegations so quickly. fact is we don't know exactly what happened yet. however, if a terrorist group was involved, they're usually quite happy to let you know they did it. in this case, no such acknowledgement has taken place. airlines usually don't just blow-up in mid-air; jet-fuel is specifically less volatile than gasoline to prevent exposions. please consider the sources when such public denials happen by the armed forces. these are the same armed forces media mavens that underreported the civilian casualties of the panama invasion by a factor of 100, blasted international reports that over 500,000 Iraqi's were killed during desert storm, and blatantly lied about "gulf war sickness" while insulting the dignity of the soldiers that were needlessly injured while serving our country. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Nov 8 19:37:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) id TAA12824; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.6/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA12810; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:37:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv3.apple.com (A17-128-100-121.apple.com [17.128.100.121]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA67274 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 19:36:23 -0800 Received: from [17.221.21.117] (greej2.apple.com [17.221.21.117]) by scv3.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) wit