From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 01:10:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA18383; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:10:24 -0700 Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA18378; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:10:21 -0700 From: Harlessape@aol.com Received: by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA20302 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:11:53 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:11:53 -0400 Message-ID: <960801041152_374805302@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: meat *It whats on this thread* (NRR) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Creation-Scientist? As if that isn't a contradiction in terms! No matter how closely related we are to a watermelon, pygmy chimps are our closest living relatives! Jeff From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 01:10:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA18407; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:10:37 -0700 Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA18401; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:10:34 -0700 From: Harlessape@aol.com Received: by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA15911 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:11:50 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:11:50 -0400 Message-ID: <960801041149_374805388@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: meat (and origins of man) [NRR] (may be rave related- we're not sure yet!) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Since you (Tim Beauchamp) mentioned stereos and a thunderstorm rocking the house. Why haven't we heard a really kick ass thunderstorm mixed in to an ambient set or something? Does this make it rave related? Jeff P.S. I know of vegetarians as filled with fear and hate as the rest of us evil omnivores. Oh, and about your theory on the origin of man. I think a space-faring species had a "port visit" on earth and being a long way from home and a touch horny decided to try out the local biped females ("no one will know Gulog I promise I won't tell.). The real missing link at last revealed! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 01:42:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA22338; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:42:45 -0700 Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA22329; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:42:42 -0700 Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA10759; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:37:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA838889114; Thu, 01 Aug 96 01:37:03 pst Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 01:37:03 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9607018388.AA838889114@smtplink.acer.com> To: meclay@netcom.com, crunch@well.com (John Draper) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re[2]: Mix tapes, Software & Corp. US (SRR) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Crunchman, Most of the big labels and their ever present lawyers have given on up pursuing these dastardly rascals who make these analog tapes, because they feel their wares are superior, casettes are inferior and degrade rapidly after two generations, and that mix tapes are a niche market. Copyright law affects all areas of this music we love. It seems the familiar sounds we love to groove to are somebody elses to profit from. The birds own the tweets, the drummers own the beats, etc. Mix tapes usually use lengthy portions of existing music from "original artists". The tapes we listen to fit into the law as demos of a DJ's talent, and so far haven't been pursued aggresively. As long as major labels (defining major might get hairy here... I think I mean anything bigger than ma and pa ops) don't get involved in distribution and it stays fairly underground, nobody gets crazy, because it's just a DJ trying to let people know what he/she mixes like, or historical audio accounts of an event (the FBI won't chase you down for having music in the background of your wedding video for example, and then showing somewhere else). Label releases and CD's are a different story. Those have to put the money where their mics are (or however they get the samples of music featured from other artists) to stay legit. Bizarre enough for ya? Check out http://www.io.org/~macos/ for a rundown on some artists trying to fight labels and take music back to something it was before this century... something that anybody could play, when nobody threw handcuffs and a fine at you for playing Chopin at your piano. AndyW ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Mix tapes, Software & Corp. US (SRR) Author: crunch@well.com (John Draper) at smtplink-acs Date: 7/31/96 11:50 PM > Now since we've established our guilt as thieves why not act as "Robin >Hood" I always say.... that is steal from the rich BUT give to the poor.. Question... Do the DJ's that make up these tapes have to pay royalties to the musicians that record the vinyl the DJ's spin? Just curious, and would explain the high price. If so, how much do they have to pay? I'm most curious... Crunchman From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 01:45:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA22529; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:45:23 -0700 Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA22513; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:45:18 -0700 Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA13723; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 01:45:14 -0700 Received: from hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA05881; Thu, 1 Aug 96 01:45:13 PDT Date: Thu, 1 Aug 96 01:45:13 PDT From: timb@nit.AirTouch.COM (Tim Beauchamp) Message-Id: <9608010845.AA05881@nit.AirTouch.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, Harlessape@aol.com Subject: Re: meat (and origins of man) [NRR] (may be rave related- we're not sure yet!) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > P.S. I know of vegetarians as filled with fear and hate as the rest of us > evil omnivores. Sorry, didn't mean to for this particular pesimistic view of modern man to be discriminatory. On the assumption that vegetarians are descended from the same creatures as non-vegetarians (i.e., those same communal hunters) yes we all share this (un)intelligence way of living. As for ambient sounds with thunderstorms--I'm sure there is plenty of this in the form of music `formerly known as ambient' (and probably still known as such in most other groups in society--i.e., ravers have redefined the term it seems) Brian Eno I'm not sure about (though he created quite a few Ambient albums) but of course those Nature albums must have had thunderstorms, or is thunder against the relaxation-basis of their existence? Hmmn... Either way, not a bad idea mixing in such natural sounds into the `New and Improved' ambient. Tim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 02:31:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id CAA29427; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 02:31:39 -0700 Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id CAA29420; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 02:31:34 -0700 Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA12493; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 02:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA838892114; Thu, 01 Aug 96 02:19:11 pst Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 02:19:11 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9607018388.AA838892114@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, Harlessape@aol.com, timb@nit.AirTouch.COM (Tim Beauchamp) Subject: Re[2]: meat (and origins of man) [NRR] (may be rave related- Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hmm? I was wondering how long it had been since I heard 'ambient proper', and then it dawned on me that the guy vacuuming the office next door was doing a pretty good job of jamming out. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmm. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooooooooooooooooooom! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmm. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooooooooooooooooooom! I've been here since 8:00am. I need to find some rich people willing to take on a 24 year old foster child. Never go into computers for a living... it's like they never sleep or something. Zzzzzz, AndyW I feel like a vegetable/full of hate as an omnivore ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: meat (and origins of man) [NRR] (may be rave related- we Author: timb@nit.AirTouch.COM (Tim Beauchamp) at smtplink-acs Date: 8/1/96 1:45 AM > P.S. I know of vegetarians as filled with fear and hate as the rest of us > evil omnivores. Sorry, didn't mean to for this particular pesimistic view of modern man to be discriminatory. On the assumption that vegetarians are descended from the same creatures as non-vegetarians (i.e., those same communal hunters) yes we all share this (un)intelligence way of living. As for ambient sounds with thunderstorms--I'm sure there is plenty of this in the form of music `formerly known as ambient' (and probably still known as such in most other groups in society--i.e., ravers have redefined the term it seems) Brian Eno I'm not sure about (though he created quite a few Ambient albums) but of course those Nature albums must have had thunderstorms, or is thunder against the relaxation-basis of their existence? Hmmn... Either way, not a bad idea mixing in such natural sounds into the `New and Improved' ambient. Tim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 02:50:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id CAA03599; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 02:50:43 -0700 Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id CAA03588; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 02:50:36 -0700 Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id CAA14094; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 02:50:32 -0700 Received: from hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA06074; Thu, 1 Aug 96 02:50:31 PDT Date: Thu, 1 Aug 96 02:50:31 PDT From: timb@nit.AirTouch.COM (Tim Beauchamp) Message-Id: <9608010950.AA06074@nit.AirTouch.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, awyszkow@smtplink.acer.com Subject: Re: eR Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Andy Wyszkowski wrote: > I've been here since 8:00am. I need to find some rich people willing > to take on a 24 year old foster child. Never go into computers for a > living... it's like they never sleep or something. Sleep is a sign of caffeine deficiency--consult you local Pete's immediately should this occur. Tim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 04:43:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id EAA11495; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:43:49 -0700 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id EAA11489; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:43:45 -0700 Received: (from sandoz@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id EAA04767; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:43:36 -0700 (PDT) From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG X-Sender: sandoz@pluto To: "Michael E. Clay" cc: Jay , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: meat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Don't forget that if we had not had a meat based diet all those millions of years ago we would either be dead or still on the plains. A totaly vegiterian diet is one of the most unhealthy diets one could choose; our motabalisms are designed for meat and fruits, not vegtables. If you want to be really healthy go to an organic butcher and eat nothing but prime cuts of meat or sea-food along with potatoes; providing you drink milk you will eating a far more healthy diet then if you totaly went vegiterian. Remember we are merely primates and all primates eat meat in one form or another. And if you think that you are doing the environment a service by going veggie then think again: We spray over 90% of our crops with incectersides causing greater illness in Humans then Mad cow desiese ever has or ever will. So the key here is to not go vegiterian but to go organic. There is an organic butcher in Sf on Lombard Street up in the Marina district and you can buy organic fruit and veggies at Rainbow groceries on (or around!) 14th Street and Howard. For something to be able to be called organic it must have been grown in soil that has not had pestersides sprayed into it for the last twelve years; and I wonder how many fruits and veggies you could say that about at safeway. Tristan. On Wed, 31 Jul 1996, Michael E. Clay wrote: > > > On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Jay wrote: > > > body is built for omnivorous eating why try to limit it to just herbervorous activities? > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > The only problem I have with this "buzzword" is the way it ends up being > applied in our society... it means to MOST people I'll eat a meat based > diet with a few other things thrown in... that's where the environmental > problems (meat production) and health problems(heart disease, cancer etc) > begin.... > > For the record: an omnivorous diet I would support is say a Thai or Chinese > meal - lots of veggies, noodles etc. with some chicken broth and small > chunks of meat added..... > > What the average Joe America means is: 2 Large Hamburgers with Fries and > a coke... lots of veggies there for balance... " ketchep's a vegatable > isn't it?" ;-) > > Mike > > meclay@netcom.com | Alone & ecstatic > Mike Clay (415)572-8971 | A young rainbow learns to levitate. > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 04:49:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id EAA11888; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:49:42 -0700 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id EAA11881; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:49:39 -0700 Received: (from sandoz@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id EAA04937; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:49:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:49:21 -0700 (PDT) From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG X-Sender: sandoz@pluto To: Jay Wiley cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies In-Reply-To: <199607311603.JAA01231@trix.cisco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk You should read a short story by Roald Dahl called "The sound machine" about a guy who invents a machine, quite by chance, that can record the pain felt by plants as they are being cut. At first he merely listens to roses being cut. Next he cuts down a tree while listening to the machine and thing's start to get really interesting....... Tristan. On Wed, 31 Jul 1996, Jay Wiley wrote: > okay, just a quick little question. This isn't really meant to be taken too seriously > but it is a possibility. :) > > Some one said killing animals and eating them is bad Karma, and a lot of you seem > to feel sorry for the animals. Now me being the meat eater that I am and having the > vegetarian girlfriend that I do, I have thought about this a little. > > What about killing the poor innocent plants?? Could they not in some way that we > don't understand have feelings too. Just because we can't communicate with them in > any way doesn't mean they do not feel pain. > > just a thought. :) > > jay > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 05:02:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id FAA12784; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:02:59 -0700 Received: from gilligan.tsoft.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id FAA12772; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:02:56 -0700 Received: by gilligan.tsoft.net id <24095>; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:01:23 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Full Moon Report From: myriad@bbs.tsoft.net (vivid voyage) Comments: None. Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 04:58:35 -0700 Organization: Tsoft BBS/Public Access Unix, Mt. View, CA USA 415 428 0190 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Did anyone attend FMR? How was it? -- vivid voyage (myriad@bbs.tsoft.net) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 05:24:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id FAA14029; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:24:27 -0700 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id FAA14019; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:24:23 -0700 Received: (from sandoz@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id FAA05790; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 05:24:19 -0700 (PDT) From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG X-Sender: sandoz@pluto To: Jay Wiley cc: Roy Feague , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies In-Reply-To: <199607311649.JAA01808@trix.cisco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Everyone who does eat meat, however, should go to a slaughter house or go to a farm and spend a day watching animals being killed; or, better yet, kill a few animals yourself while you are there. If you can not do this then you have no right what-so-ever to be a meat-eater and you should become vegiterian which is, as I have already stated earlier, a very unhealthy diet to have. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 07:02:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id HAA20318; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:02:00 -0700 Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA20313; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:01:57 -0700 Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA13406 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 06:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA838908363; Thu, 01 Aug 96 06:52:38 pst Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 06:52:38 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9607018389.AA838908363@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Doing the happy morning dance while shaking their heads wondering if the whole damn thing was a dream and opening their eyes to a beautiful, albeit a little less beautiful but a lot more real than the one they spent the night in. The cradling arms of ecstasy releasing us like children back to the playground after a hug from mother. Dried sweat and dried tears making us look like binge drinkers who'd suddenly decided enough was enough in a moment of clarity, with a taste in our mouths like vanilla and cotton. Pupils indescriptly looking wrong as we continue to look at one another and smile... thinking rejoice, for we were there. How many dreams can you come back from with witnesses? The hugs now a little less natural but somehow a lot more meaningful, our awareness brightens with the sky. A new day is upon us. Awaken. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 07:12:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id HAA21146; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:12:19 -0700 Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA21134; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:12:16 -0700 Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA13421 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:08:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA838908976; Thu, 01 Aug 96 07:00:07 pst Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 07:00:07 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9607018389.AA838908976@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Darwin vs. Vegetables vs. Malnutrition vs. the Donner Party Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk So by show of hands, who is going to Juggernaut and who is going to Chrysalis? I think I'll hit C, but that room with Dutch, Theta Blip, Radley, and Surge at JRGNT seems like such a nice place to get lost for an evening ... It would be nice to see some familiar faces this weekend. ====================================================================== Ever wonder what SoCal Raves are like? Anybody who feels like travelling the weekend of the tenth should consider LA... the event is called Opium/Visions of Shiva (they were passing out flyers at Freedom, funky gatefold yin/yang). If I get friends fly free, would anybody want to go with and split fares ($40-$60roundtrip)? I'd be flying out of San Jose Friday 8/9 night, and coming back Sunday 8/11 night, and I've got a place to crash while we're there. The past Shiva events have been supposedly pretty groovin (haven't gone personally, but I'm on a good recommendation here). I could also have a friend pick up presale tix for $15 and pass the savings on to you! "Hope" is the thing with features - That perches in the soul - And sings the tune without words - And never stop - at all - Emily Dickerson, Untitled Opium 4 - Visions of Shiva (LA) - by The People Who Love You. "Enter a World where the bass booms and the kids play." AREA 1 - TECHNO FURY: Lenny Dee (Industrial Strength Records - New York), Delta-9 - Performing Live (Industrial Strength Records - Chicago), Ron D. Core, Demigod (SF), Fester, and Eric L. AREA 2 - TRANCEXPRESS: Vaporspace - Performing Live (Plus 8 Records - New York), Jon Williams (SF), Barry Weaver (Portland), DJ Trance, and Xavier, Paolo (SD). Info lines: 213.960.5515 / 310.285.8379 / 415.995.4789 / 619.492.8800 / 714.647.7701 / 909.514.4020 http://www.drfreeclouds.com/events/opium.html From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 07:26:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id HAA22219; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:26:08 -0700 Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA22208; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:26:04 -0700 From: Harlessape@aol.com Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA04517 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:27:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:27:03 -0400 Message-ID: <960801102702_589978740@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: meat (and origins of man) [NRR] (reply to Mike Clay) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Mike, I believe my argument should have been understood to mean that the capacity for language i.e. wernicke's area in the brain, evolved because it was easier to coordinate a group hunt with language than without. Of course advanced society would have been difficult if not impossible to develop without agriculture and the ability to store enough food to allow us the leisure to develop our cognitive abilities. If you look at animals that hunt cooperatively (like wolves for example) they have a higher developed 'language' and social hierarchy than deer or herbavores in general. They have to or they won't survive. Likewise in our pre-agricultural period we had to cooperate and communicate in order to survive. Lets face it, we are pretty weak and unarmed compared to the rest of the animal kingdom. This may be the very reason our brains became so highly evolved. If we could get everything we needed nutritionally from grazing like a cow (Which requires four stomachs and bacteria I might add) our brains would probably be much like a cow's we wouldn't require more. Hope this helps yet I have no idea how this subject got so far off base. Jeff From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 08:15:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA26483; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:15:30 -0700 Received: from netcom13.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA26475; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:15:27 -0700 Received: (from branka@localhost) by netcom13.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id IAA21536; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:15:25 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:15:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Branka Cehic Subject: Burning Man To: SFRaves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Is it to early to be all excited about this? Maybe, but I have heard so much and I just can't stop thinking about it :). (It's all Tony's fault). I hope a lot of people are going, because I heard it was amazing :). I have never been, so I was just wondering if there were few good people willing to share few good advices on what is the best way to get there (rent an RV, van, bum rides :P), just little tricks and tips that would be helpful. Thanks and have fun for the rest of the week (and weekend of course). Hugz, Branka From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 08:22:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA26953; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:22:43 -0700 Received: from ns2.eds.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA26938; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:22:39 -0700 Received: by ns2.eds.com (hello) id LAA29527; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:22:23 -0400 Received: from spot (spot.hds.eds.com [199.228.179.61]) by nnsp.eds.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA19774 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from notes.hds.eds.com by spot (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06342; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:20:08 +0800 Received: by notes.hds.eds.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.2)/1.0) id AA0448; Thu, 01 Aug 96 08:19:01 -0400 Message-Id: <9608011219.AA0448@notes.hds.eds.com> Received: by HDS (Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP V1.1) id 98BE8C514D852422882563790053D6A9; Thu, 1 Aug 96 08:18:57 To: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Cc: sfraves From: Todd Manley/Santa Clara/HDS Date: 1 Aug 96 8:19:53 Subject: Re: Mix tape X-Importance: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi Jason- You are definitely right about the output level falling off towards the end of the tape. I forgot to mention this to my friends who now have possesion of this tape. The story behind this is that the phone rang during the last song, and instead of turning down the volume on the amp or just moving to another room, I lowered the level output on the channel that the song was coming through. I guess you live and learn. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the tape, and I'll probably have a new one ready soon in the future. And here is my two cents on this DJ mixtape idea. I like it, but I'm way too busy right now to help organizing it. Maybe some time down the road I'll be able to contribute. -Todd From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 08:26:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA27587; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:26:35 -0700 Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA27582; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:26:33 -0700 Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id IAA24775; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608011526.IAA24775@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Branka Cehic From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: Burning Man Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Bring some sort of shade devise. Make sure you tie it down really well. Rick At 08:15 AM 8/1/96 -0700, you wrote: >Is it to early to be all excited about this? Maybe, but I have heard so >much and I just can't stop thinking about it :). (It's all Tony's fault). > >I hope a lot of people are going, because I heard it was amazing :). I >have never been, so I was just wondering if there were few good people >willing to share few good advices on what is the best way to get there >(rent an RV, van, bum rides :P), just little tricks and tips that would >be helpful. > >Thanks and have fun for the rest of the week (and weekend of course). >Hugz, >Branka > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 08:59:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA00623; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:59:40 -0700 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA00609; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:59:36 -0700 From: Sami Khoury Message-Id: <199608011559.IAA00609@taz.hyperreal.com> Subject: Re: DJ Mixtape Collective To: gedigm@rpi.edu (Matthew Gedigian) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9608010154.ZM25131@barh1b.its.rpi.edu> from "Matthew Gedigian" at Aug 1, 96 01:54:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 905 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Matthew Gedigian writes: > Yeah, but high prices on mix tapes could make people end up choosing > between an actual release and a mix tape. Hm, I'm not so sure about this. There is a big difference between listening to a single, autonomous, unmixed song and listening to the same one which is part of a much larger progression (that being the mood the dj creates through his or her track selection and mixing style). Besides, with an import 12" running around $10, often with as few as two or three tracks, getting an hour's worth of mixed music feels like a bargain. > If you have a mix tape you like, you won't necessarily seek out the > featured songs, since you have what the DJ considered to be the best part, > right? If you are a dj yourself, you'll most definitely seek out the featured songs that you liked because you'll need the track 'clean' before you can do anything with it :) Sami From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 09:05:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA01113; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:05:04 -0700 Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA01103; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:05:01 -0700 Received: from [205.158.224.118] by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA15547; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:03:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3200E36E.353F@mvasey.xo.com> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:03:42 -0800 From: "Martin Vasey" Reply-To: mvasey@mvasey.xo.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Branka Cehic CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Burning Man References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Branka writes >Is it to early to be all excited about this? Not at all. > and I just can't stop thinking about it :) Me too. It is getting really close and its definetely time to start getting your shit together. Out little subcamp is having out first planning meeting tomorrow night. I learned alot from last year and it pays to coordinate with your fellow campers. Pool your resources. Last year many of us brought duplicate stuff to share and we ended up just lugging a bunch of extra stuff back home with us (we could have used that precious space for water). My main contribution to our subcamp is to construct a central tarp/canopy that will *not* blow over in high winds. A nice central shaded area with carpet and lots of comfy cushions is crucial for chilling and sleeping in the hot afternoons. My tent was just too damn hot. Last year I ended up chasing our central tarp across the playa several times during the storms and I don't want to repeat that this year. I saw several people who must have learned the hard way and had big 6"+ dia. wooden poles with 24"+ stakes to hold up their tarps. They had no problem standing up to the storms that passed. My $.02 on the subject of reliable shade... peace, martin From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 09:15:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA02260; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:15:26 -0700 Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA02255; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:15:23 -0700 Received: from [205.158.224.118] by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA15997; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:14:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3200E614.3C44@mvasey.xo.com> Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 09:15:00 -0800 From: "Martin Vasey" Reply-To: mvasey@mvasey.xo.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR: Looking for Austin Tx info... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello friends and family... If anyone has any suggestions as to what to do in Austin (Texas) please email me soon. I've got to spend a week there at a developers conference and could use some tips. I had a great time there a couple of years ago but have no idea what the scene is like now... Thanks for any info... peace, martin From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 09:30:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA03480; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:30:22 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA03473; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:30:19 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA29324 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:27:32 -0700 Received: from hera.synopsys.com (hera.synopsys.com [146.225.100.23]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA28787 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:30:16 -0700 Received: from [146.225.54.34] (mac-54-34.synopsys.com [146.225.54.34]) by hera.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA03885 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:30:13 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:30:59 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Common description detail Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey all, If there's one description detail that's common to all of you, so common that you need not post it in your descriptions before parties, it's that you're all beaming with light and love! Some of you might not be aware of that, but I see and feel it every time I see you, and that's one reason it's such a joy for me to be among you in all the beautiful experiences we share. I love you all! Eric P.S.: I'm feeling much better. Thanks for everyone's support. I think Nancy and I are clearing things up, and understanding each other better :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 09:48:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA05294; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:48:38 -0700 Received: from mail.ico.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA05270; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:48:31 -0700 Received: from starbase.starfishsoftware.com by mail.ico.net with SMTP (5.65/950621.1) id AA11137; Thu, 1 Aug 96 09:48:24 -0700 Message-Id: <9608011648.AA11137@mail.ico.net> Priority: non-urgent Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:46:00 -0700 From: Roy Feague Subject: RE: meat vs. veggies To: sfraves X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This is an interesting argument, and one I've often heard/used before myself. But now that I rethink it, maybe it doesn't make as much sense as it seems on the surface. Is it really true that if I find a task unpleasant, I am in the wrong to hire someone else to do it rather than not do it/have it done? If I would really find a slaughterhouse revolting, but I eat meat, it doesn't necessarily follow that I am living under an illusion. It only follows that I don't want to see a slaughterhouse. If I am aware of what goes on in a slaughterhouse, why would I be obligated to go see it? It seems there are plenty of things I am aware of, that I don't feel should be changed, but that I still don't particularly care to see. Thoughts? -Roy ---------- From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG[SMTP:sandoz@sfsu.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 1996 5:20 AM To: Jay Wiley Cc: Roy Feague; sfraves Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies Everyone who does eat meat, however, should go to a slaughter house or go to a farm and spend a day watching animals being killed; or, better yet, kill a few animals yourself while you are there. If you can not do this then you have no right what-so-ever to be a meat-eater and you should become vegiterian which is, as I have already stated earlier, a very unhealthy diet to have. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 09:55:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA06278; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:55:45 -0700 Received: from alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA06269; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:55:41 -0700 Received: (from shamini@localhost) by alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) id JAA27089 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:52:20 -0700 From: Shamini Jain Message-Id: <199608011652.JAA27089@alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov> Subject: VEG: the debate continues...also cookbook To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:52:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1546 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk It's been really interesting reading everyone's take on vegetarianism. Though some of it I tend to disagree with and some statements I know are just plain wrong, I think it's cool that everyone is being really civil about their comments. I feel really strongly about vegetarianism, but I'm not into preaching about it. Ultimately it's always up to the person to decide what's right for them, and where their "point of moderation" lies on the continuum. The questions on "what about plants? they feel too" is a really good one, IMHO. I could go off on this question for a while, esp from the view of the religion of Jainism (yes, like my last name). I won't bother now, unless people really want to hear about it, 'cuz it looks like this subject has been discussed a lot already. In the meantime, thanks to all of you who responded wanting Indian vegetarian recipes, etc...I want to respond to all of y'all but work is VERY insane right now and I might not get a chance till...well, hopefully not too long! In the meantime, here's the name of that book I mentioned: It's called "Lord Krishna's Cuisine:The Art of Indian Vegetarian Cooking" by Yamuna Devi. It's a phat book. She gets really into the detail of everything, and calls for the use of a lot of spices. My daily cooking is of course more simple and fast...when I get some time I'll send those of you who asked a recipe or two! Who knows, if we ever have a get-together again with food maybe I can bring something yummy! :oD bye! shamini From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 10:03:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA07070; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:03:53 -0700 Received: from alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA07061; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:03:49 -0700 Received: (from shamini@localhost) by alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA27213; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:00:02 -0700 From: Shamini Jain Message-Id: <199608011700.KAA27213@alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov> Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies To: rfeague@starfishsoftware.com (Roy Feague) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9608011648.AA11137@mail.ico.net> from "Roy Feague" at Aug 1, 96 10:46:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1528 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > > This is an interesting argument, and one I've often heard/used before > myself. But now that I rethink it, maybe it doesn't make as much sense > as it seems on the surface. Is it really true that if I find a task > unpleasant, I am in the wrong to hire someone else to do it rather than > not do it/have it done? If I would really find a slaughterhouse > revolting, but I eat meat, it doesn't necessarily follow that I am living > under an illusion. It only follows that I don't want to see a > slaughterhouse. If I am aware of what goes on in a slaughterhouse, why > would I be obligated to go see it? It seems there are plenty of things I > am aware of, that I don't feel should be changed, but that I still don't > particularly care to see. > Thoughts? > -Roy > IMHO, if you don't visit one, then you really DON'T know what goes on in one. To be honest, I find it a lot harder to take certain vegetables for eating (esp carrots, onions etc where you are killing the entire plant for its food) when I pick them myself. For that matter I don't like buying cut flowers or even plucking one now that I grow my own. It just seems unneccesary, esp the flowers...kill a plant for decoration? (though I've heard that some plants prosper if you harvest the flowers) I'm sure many people might find this ridiculous and extreme, but I really feel like you're NOT really conscious of the energy of the plant/animal unless you visit/take it/kill it yourself. Just my thoughts :) shamini From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 10:25:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA09357; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:25:45 -0700 Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA09332; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:25:39 -0700 Received: from 13474597.mcoe.k12.ca.us (silver.salinas.net [205.179.129.141]) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA10625; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:37:22 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 09:37:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199608011637.JAA10625@lettuce.salinas.net> X-Sender: silver@salinas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: elmo@cats.ucsc.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" Subject: Re: paging Brian McGonigle Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 05:16 PM 7/26/96 -0700, elmo@cats.ucsc.edu wrote: > >Yes, I've probably butchered his name =( but I'm >looking for Brian... He changed his account to a bunch >of numbers (compuserve?) that I have forgotten =) >if anybody knows what his new address is, or if you're >out there Brian, please respond privately... > >thanks- >matt cantu =) >elmo@cats.ucsc.edu >http://arts.ucsc.edu/Random/Matt/cantu/ > Hey...\don't know if you still need it..but........... mac <70730.2126@CompuServe.COM> > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 10:27:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA09638; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:27:59 -0700 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA09631; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:27:56 -0700 Received: from well (cubensis@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id KAA04765; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT) From: John Bagby Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies To: Shamini Jain cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199608011700.KAA27213@alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Shamini Jain wrote: > I'm sure many people might find this ridiculous and extreme, but I > really feel like you're NOT really conscious of the energy of the > plant/animal unless you visit/take it/kill it yourself. This is such a beautiful perspective. Funny, I saw Ted Nugent on Politically Incorrect a few weeks ago, and he said the same thing about killing animals. Harvesting food makes for strange bedfellows. ;) P.S. Don't get me wrong I think Nugent is a pig, but he does have a point about how removed american society is from how we get our meat. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 10:31:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA10024; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:31:22 -0700 Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA10010; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:31:17 -0700 Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id KAA12295; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608011731.KAA12295@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Rick Riffle Subject: RE: meat vs. veggies Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG[SMTP:sandoz@sfsu.edu] >you should >become vegiterian which is, as I have already stated earlier, a very >unhealthy diet to have. I may be missing the context here, (I missed your first post about it), but are you really saying you think a vegetarian diet is unhealthy? That statement is crazy. I'm not trying to flame you, but I would like to know your justification. Thanks. Rick From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 10:41:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA10969; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:41:52 -0700 Received: from horatio.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA10963; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:41:49 -0700 Received: (from knegtel@localhost) by horatio.ucsf.EDU (940816.SGI.8.6.9/GSC4.24) id KAA13932 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:41:47 -0700 From: "Ronald Knegtel" Message-Id: <9608011041.ZM13930@horatio.ucsf.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:41:46 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Prodigy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey all, I was wondering if anybody out there knows what the deal with the Prodigy performing at the Trocadero tonight. Adds in the SF weekly state that this is a free event, but that one should listen to live 105 for details. For obscure reasons that frequency seems to be taken over by KFOG and some religious station on my radio so I can't get the details... And since it is supposedly _free_, I'm concerned there may be a catch. Mrs. Frying Dutchman would really love to go... The Frying Dutchman -- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 10:42:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA11167; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:42:46 -0700 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA11161; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:42:43 -0700 Received: from well (cubensis@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id KAA07576 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:42:28 -0700 (PDT) From: John Bagby Subject: Chrysalis vs. Juggernaut To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ok, so I need to do some SERIOUS vibe generation this saturday. I've been told Chrysalis really represents the beauty of the Sf scene, and is brimming with PLUR. But Juggernaut has some DJs listed that promise to rock my world, but good. Recommendations, and reasons why they are different, anyone? Thanks! ~John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 10:48:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA11638; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:48:20 -0700 Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA11629; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:48:16 -0700 Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id KAA15081; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:48:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608011748.KAA15081@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Rick Riffle Subject: The Meat/Veg thing Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I once had a discussion with Seth from the list about meat v. veg. and he made a very interesting point, that actually turned me back towards meat for a short time. (Had sushi twice, but then quit again) He pointed out that inorder for the average human to sustain life, he/she must consume life. We must destroy it and make it part of ourselfs. Pretty brutal if you really think about it. It's really just a matter of where you draw the line as to what level of life you want to take. I personnally draw the line with animals, but again that's my choice. My discussion with Seth didn't change my behavior in the long run, but it did open my eyes to something I hadn't yet seen. Thanks. Rick From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 10:48:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA11676; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:48:29 -0700 Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA11658; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:48:22 -0700 Received: from 13474597.mcoe.k12.ca.us (silver.salinas.net [205.179.129.141]) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA10694; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:00:06 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:00:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199608011700.KAA10694@lettuce.salinas.net> X-Sender: silver@salinas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: myriad@bbs.tsoft.net (vivid voyage), sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" Subject: Re: Full Moon Empty Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 04:58 AM 8/1/96 -0700, vivid voyage wrote: >Did anyone attend FMR? How was it? > >-- >vivid voyage (myriad@bbs.tsoft.net) > > ..Imagine if you will......Somewhere kids are laaughing. Somewhere records are spinning......but...some more barbeque fluid needed to be sprayed on the fledgling Full Moon flame last Tues night. Being an Alumni of various Full Moon Madness....when the message flashed about 12:30 that the Full Moon was ON decided to go to sleep for a few--jump in the car and try to make it by 5:00 in time for sunrise.. Well, I made it by 6:00...about 10-15 of the hale and hearty..a "brace of kinsmen"...undulating to the some acid jazz of Markie....nice tunes,great sound system, great spot down from the Lighthouse from Half Moon bay...Tracy and Mark showed up a little later......All this party need was people... Probably just a temporary set-back...but this is a party that should never die...While in the past the cult of silence (lack of promotion) was one of the magic draws for this party..it this case...it succeeded in silencing itself.. Thanks to Geoff,Markie,Mark,Tracy,and Brian Darkness...for trying to fan the fragile flame.....And hey...I didn't go to the Fnf...but I did go the Full Moon, ( I mean the Halloween Full Moon in 94 with 1500 mad revelers on the beach)... I think I'll remember that a little more than last Tuesdays...... ..................................SpinSilver "Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else" P.S If you wish to become a fragile flame fanner of the Full Moon, contact Geoff W. BEFORE the next full moon rises... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 10:51:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA12003; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:51:44 -0700 Received: from oldmail.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA11986; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:51:36 -0700 Received: from [205.231.222.75] by oldmail.domain.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:51:30 -0700 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) Subject: this is great....Meat/Veggie Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:51:30 -0700 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk For a topic that has so many opinions and one that I've personaly have seen fight over, this has been a really great thread here calm, cool, and collective replies to one another too. No body really jumping on anyone else for eating this are that. Too bad all the threads that have way too many strong opinions can't end up being like this one is doing. I do have two questions,. 1. Why is it that SF seems to have the most Vegetrians then any other city in the Bay Area. and 2. If a cow was raise as gentle and as good as humanly possible, free from and harm, then given something that when it goes to sleep it just never wakes up. No pain or suffering. It's that more exemptable(sp?) to eat it then? Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 10:51:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA12004; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:51:44 -0700 Received: from horatio.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA11990; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:51:38 -0700 Received: (from knegtel@localhost) by horatio.ucsf.EDU (940816.SGI.8.6.9/GSC4.24) id KAA13954 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:51:36 -0700 From: "Ronald Knegtel" Message-Id: <9608011051.ZM13952@horatio.ucsf.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:51:35 -0700 In-Reply-To: Roy Feague "RE: meat vs. veggies" (Aug 1, 10:46am) References: <9608011648.AA11137@mail.ico.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Aug 1, 10:46am, Roy Feague wrote: > Subject: RE: meat vs. veggies > > This is an interesting argument, and one I've often heard/used before > myself. But now that I rethink it, maybe it doesn't make as much sense > as it seems on the surface. Is it really true that if I find a task > unpleasant, I am in the wrong to hire someone else to do it rather than > not do it/have it done? If I would really find a slaughterhouse > revolting, but I eat meat, it doesn't necessarily follow that I am living > under an illusion. It only follows that I don't want to see a > slaughterhouse. If I am aware of what goes on in a slaughterhouse, why > would I be obligated to go see it? It seems there are plenty of things I > am aware of, that I don't feel should be changed, but that I still don't > particularly care to see. > Thoughts? > -Roy Personally I fail to see the logic behind this. Our society is already so far removed from the time were everybody had to build their own shelter, gather their own food etc. It's like stating that if you cannot build your own car you shouldn't be allowed to drive one. And as far as the moral issue is concerned, by the time the world will be severely over- populated (give it a few more years) I can assure you I will have no problem killing a chicken to survive. Besides, the whole discussion seems to be a luxury problem, so many people do not get to choose what they eat, they're just hungry. IMHO the best way to assure a better life for the animals (and crops) we're growing and eating would be to reduce the number of people on this planet. Otherwise we will have keep coming up with more industrialized ways of feeding us all. For now, the fittest are surviving, and that's us... Just my $0.02 The Kentucky Fried Dutchman > ---------- > From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG[SMTP:sandoz@sfsu.edu] > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 1996 5:20 AM > To: Jay Wiley > Cc: Roy Feague; sfraves > Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies > > Everyone who does eat meat, however, should go to a slaughter house or go > > to a farm and spend a day watching animals being killed; or, better yet, > kill a few animals yourself while you are there. If you can not do this > then you have no right what-so-ever to be a meat-eater and you should > become vegiterian which is, as I have already stated earlier, a very > unhealthy diet to have. > >-- End of excerpt from Roy Feague -- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 10:54:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA12326; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:54:46 -0700 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA12319; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:54:43 -0700 Received: from [206.15.68.60] (pm1-ppp60.well.com [206.15.68.60]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id KAA09971; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608011754.KAA09971@mh1.well.com> X-Sender: crunch@mail.well.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:54:16 -0800 To: "Andy Wyszkowski" From: crunch@well.com (John Draper) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Mix tapes, Software & Corp. US (SRR) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Most of the big labels and their ever present lawyers have given on up > pursuing these dastardly rascals who make these analog tapes, because > they feel their wares are superior, casettes are inferior and degrade > rapidly after two generations, and that mix tapes are a niche market. Thanx much for the run-down. I was always curious about that... I used to make tapes of segued songs (Not techno, but new age) and always just circulated them among friends... I've thought about selling the tapes, but was advised against it... But I understand now, because House and Techno music is so underground.... The lack of a radio station that plays it 24/7 makes it very clear just how "Underground" this kind of music is.. Although, in talking with a friend in Moscow, they have a radio station there that plays house/techno/rave music 24 hrs/day, 7 days/week, featuring British and European DJ's. It also turns out that Russia is now getting famious for hosting huge massive raves with 100,000 plus people, out in the woods near Moscow. Moscow areas and the Crimean areas like Yalta are the rave "Hot spots" in Russia so I'm told. St Petersburg (formerly Leningrad) has a rather weak scene but has some pretty good clubs.. I'va asked my Russian friend to pass me more information on the Moscow scene. After living in Russia (just before the coup), I can understand the tolerance the authorities have for raves. Things are much more free over there... contrary to US beliefs. The crunchman From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:03:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA13328; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:03:30 -0700 Received: from oldmail.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA13322; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:03:25 -0700 Received: from [205.231.222.75] by oldmail.domain.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:03:19 -0700 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Rick Riffle From: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) Subject: RE: meat vs. veggies Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:03:19 -0700 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >>From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG[SMTP:sandoz@sfsu.edu] > >>you should >>become vegiterian which is, as I have already stated earlier, a very >>unhealthy diet to have. > >I may be missing the context here, (I missed your first post about it), but >are you really saying you think a vegetarian diet is unhealthy? That >statement is crazy. I'm not trying to flame you, but I would like to know >your justification. Thanks. > >Rick I agree with rick, even if I do eat meat...take a look at these FACTS, I have alot more where this comes from too * How frequently a heart attack strikes in U.S.: Every 25 seconds * How frequently a heart attack kills in U.S.: Every 45 seconds * Most common cause of death in U.S.: Heart attack * Risk of death from heart attack by average American man: 50% * Risk of death from heart attack by average American vegetarian man: 15% * Risk of death from heart attack by average American purely vegetarian man: 4% * Amount you reduce your risk of heart attack by reducing your consumption of meat, dairy products and eggs 10%: 9% * Amount you reduce your risk of heart attack by reducing your consumption of meat, dairy products and eggs 50%: 45% * Amount you reduce your risk of heart attack by reducing your comsumption of meat, dariy products and eggs 100%: 90% * Rise in blood cholesterol from consuming 1 egg per day: 12% * Rise in heart attack risk from 12% rise in blood cholesterol: 24% * Meat, dairy and egg industries claim there is no reason to be concerned about your blood cholesterol as long as it is: "normal" * Your risk of dying a disease caused by clogged arteries if your blood cholesterol is "normal": over 50% * Your risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries if you do not consume saturated fat and cholesterol: 5% * Leading sources of saturated fat and cholesterol in American diets: Meat, dairy products and eggs * Hollywood celebrity paid by Meat Board to tout beef as "Real food for real people": James Garner * Medical event experienced by James Garner in April, 1988: Quintuple coronary artery bypass surgery From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:05:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA13505; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:05:05 -0700 Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA13499; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:05:01 -0700 Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id LAA18690; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608011804.LAA18690@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Bagby From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: Chrysalis vs. Juggernaut Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Crysalis! but that could just be a BSP cuz if they have an ambient room C-Lab and RE: will get to play in it. Rick At 10:42 AM 8/1/96 -0700, you wrote: > >Ok, so I need to do some SERIOUS vibe generation this saturday. I've >been told Chrysalis really represents the beauty of the Sf scene, and is >brimming with PLUR. But Juggernaut has some DJs listed that promise to >rock my world, but good. > >Recommendations, and reasons why they are different, anyone? > >Thanks! > >~John > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:07:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA13990; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:07:58 -0700 Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA13983; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:07:55 -0700 Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id LAA19183; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608011807.LAA19183@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: this is great....Meat/Veggie Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 10:51 AM 8/1/96 -0700, you wrote: >I do have two questions,. 1. Why is it that SF seems to have the most >Vegetrians then any other city in the Bay Area. and 2. If a cow was raise >as gentle and as good as humanly possible, free from and harm, then given >something that when it goes to sleep it just never wakes up. No pain or >suffering. It's that more exemptable(sp?) to eat it then? > > >Tim (knucklehead) Possibly, but I still wouldn't do it myself, because I couldn't kill the animal. Rick From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:11:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA14417; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:11:52 -0700 Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA14409; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:11:49 -0700 Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id LAA19897; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608011811.LAA19897@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Ronald Knegtel" From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 10:51 AM 8/1/96 -0700, you wrote: >And as far as the >moral issue is concerned, by the time the world will be severely over- >populated (give it a few more years) I can assure you I will have no >problem killing a chicken to survive. The only problem with this logic is that if more or all of the planet were vegetarians, there wouldn't be to much starvation. I'm sure someone has gone over the stats how much grain it takes to produce a pound of meat, as opposed to how many people that same grain could feed. Just my thoughts about your thoughts. Rick From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:16:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA14833; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:16:20 -0700 Received: from stratacom.strata.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA14825; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:16:17 -0700 Received: from Strata.COM (kiwi.strata.com) by stratacom.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gatekeeper.Strata.Com-950201) id AA18781; Thu, 1 Aug 96 11:15:07 PDT Received: from polaris.strata.com by Strata.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/StrataCom-GCA-Kiwi-931007-1) id AA06191; Thu, 1 Aug 96 11:15:06 PDT Received: by polaris.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08742; Thu, 1 Aug 96 11:15:57 PDT Date: Thu, 1 Aug 96 11:15:57 PDT From: jlawrenc@stratacom.com (Jeremy Lawrence) Message-Id: <9608011815.AA08742@polaris.strata.com> To: knucklehead@club.net Subject: NRR Re: this is great....Meat/Veggie Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > 2. If a cow was raise > as gentle and as good as humanly possible, free from and harm, then given > something that when it goes to sleep it just never wakes up. No pain or > suffering. It's that more exemptable(sp?) to eat it then? Yes, IMHO. (I still probably wouldn't eat the cow for health reasons, but that's another story.) Other veggies may disagree for other reasons. Jeremu From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:20:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA15291; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:20:54 -0700 Received: from horatio.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA15273; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:20:49 -0700 Received: (from knegtel@localhost) by horatio.ucsf.EDU (940816.SGI.8.6.9/GSC4.24) id LAA14050 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:20:47 -0700 From: "Ronald Knegtel" Message-Id: <9608011120.ZM14048@horatio.ucsf.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:20:47 -0700 In-Reply-To: Rick Riffle "Re: meat vs. veggies" (Aug 1, 11:11am) References: <199608011811.LAA19897@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Aug 1, 11:11am, Rick Riffle wrote: > Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies > At 10:51 AM 8/1/96 -0700, you wrote: > >And as far as the > >moral issue is concerned, by the time the world will be severely over- > >populated (give it a few more years) I can assure you I will have no > >problem killing a chicken to survive. > > The only problem with this logic is that if more or all of the planet were > vegetarians, there wouldn't be to much starvation. I'm sure someone has > gone over the stats how much grain it takes to produce a pound of meat, as > opposed to how many people that same grain could feed. > > Just my thoughts about your thoughts. > > Rick > >-- End of excerpt from Rick Riffle The problem is that no matter what solution, the exponential explosion of human population is going to catch up with it at some point. And think about this, if every other living animal that is now being bred for human consumption would be set free to breed, eat and live happily ever after, where would they go? Where would they graze? And what about if we would stop killing rabbits or rats eating our veggies? Some way or another you would have to stop them from eating our food, which even if you don't shoot or poison them means they will die because of you. These are pretty complicated and hard to solve problems, especially since with us humans around it will be hard to create a stable eco- system (unless we give up most of our modern ways of living). And on the heart-problem/meat thing, how are these numbers if all these meat consumers would have regular exercise and eat their veggies at the same time? The Frying Dutchman -- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:22:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA15552; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:22:46 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA15544; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:22:43 -0700 Received: from Xta00000.ix.netcom.com (ala-ca12-01.ix.netcom.com [199.35.209.193]) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA15419 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:22:10 -0700 Message-ID: <320022F5.25D8@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 20:22:29 -0700 From: Jay X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SFRaves@hyperreal.com Subject: About the Meat Vs. Veggie.. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Why can't we all just agree to disagree on this subject. Many people (like me) are just not too interested in becoming vegitarian. Don't you guys watch the Simpsons? Remeber when Lisa Simpson wanted to become a vegitarian? She tried to make everyone else one too, but then after Abu and Paul McCartney had a little talk with Lisa, she realized that she has to accept the people for who they are and not impose the vegitarianism on them. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:27:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA16150; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:27:46 -0700 Received: from netcom2.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA16132; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:27:41 -0700 Received: (from meclay@localhost) by netcom2.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA29261; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:27:29 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:27:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael E. Clay" Subject: RE: meat vs. veggies To: Roy Feague cc: sfraves In-Reply-To: <9608011648.AA11137@mail.ico.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The problem I have with paying others to do the "dirty work" is it often results in a lack or loss of respect for life taken to survive. Children often seem to believe that meat comes from "disneyland" in clown containers etc.... I can live with any meat eater who takes full responsibility for killing what they eat... that doesn't necessarily mean they actually have to do it - but they should be willing to if asked and not be squemish about it... My relatives were like that - all hunters - all very willing to kill and prepare meat and not particularly squemish about it... as I child I saw rabbits, frogs, squirrels, deer etc. killed cooked and eaten. It's a dirty (actually bloody) job so I wouldn't say anyone has to kill/prepare the meat they eat on a daily basis... no reason for that.. but they should know and respect where their meat comes from (and we should have more respect than we do for plants also)... I became vegatarian (actually I eat seafood) when I realized that there were certain animals that I would not comfortably kill as I had seen done by my relatives... my guideline for eating became if given the opportunity would I kill it myself? My answer was no for mammals & birds so I no longer eat them... for fish and shrimp my answer was yes I would kill and prepare them- so I continue to eat them... EVEN though I am seldom the one doing the killing- the point being I "sanction" their death by eating them.... So if you or anyone else feels comfortable with actually killing animals I for one have absolutely no problems with you eating them...actually I would prefer you eat them - with respect rather than kill for no reason. On the other hand, there is something dishonest (IMHO) about not being willing to take life yourself- being totally disconnected and in denial about it- if you insist on eating it... it's like you should look your "victims" in the eye and "honor" their contribution to your life.... Does that make sense ? Mike meclay@netcom.com | Alone & ecstatic Mike Clay (415)572-8971 | A young rainbow learns to levitate. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:30:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA16549; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:30:25 -0700 Received: from oldmail.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA16526; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:30:19 -0700 Received: from [205.231.222.75] by oldmail.domain.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:30:17 -0700 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) Subject: Stats on meat and veggies..long Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:30:17 -0700 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I told my self I wasn't going to send this due to bandwidth but too many people are asking about stats so read this..These are facts!! * Human population of United States: 243,000,000 * Number of Human beings who could be fed by the grain and soybeans eaten by U. S. livestock: 1,300,000,000 * Sacred food of Native Americans: Corn * Percentage of corn grown in United States eaten by human beings: 20 * Percentage of corn grown in United States eaten by livestock: 80 * Percentage of oats grown in United States eaten by livestock: 95 * Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90 * Percentage of carbohydrate wasted by cycling grain through livestock:99 * Percentage of dietary fiber wasted by cycling grain through livestock:100 * How frequently a child dies of starvation: Every 2 seconds * Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on 1 acre of land: 20,000 * Pounds of beef that can be produced on 1 acre of land: 165 * Percentage of U.S. agricultural land used to produce beef: 56 * Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce 1 pound of feedlot beef: 16 * Pounds of protein fed to chickens to produce 1 pound of protein as chicken flesh: 5 pounds * Pounds of protein fed to hogs to produce 1 pound of protein as hog flesh: 7.5 pounds * Number of children who starve to death every day: 40,000 * Number of pure vegetarians who can be fed on the amount of land needed to feed 1 person consuming meat-based diet: 20 * Number of people who will starve to death this year: 60,000,000 * Number of people who could be adequately fed by the grain saved if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 60,000,000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Historic cause of demise of many great civilizations: Topsoil depletion * Percentage of original U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75 * Amount of U.S. cropland lost each year to soil erosion: 4,000,000 acres (size of Connecticut) * Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly associated with livestock raising: 85 * Number of acres of U.S. forest whcih have been cleared to create cropland to produce a meat-centered diet: 260,000,000 * How often an acre of U.S. trees disappears: Every 8 seconds * Amount of trees spared per year by each individual who switches to a pure vegetarian diet: 1 acre * A driving force behind the destruction of the tropical rainforests: American meat habit * Amount of meat imported anually by U.S. from Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras and Panama: Less than the average American housecat * Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical rainforests and related habitats: 1000/year ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * User of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the United States: Livestock production * Quantity of water used in the production of the average cow sufficient to: float a destroyer * Water needed to produce 1 pound of wheat: 25 gallons * Water needed to produce 1 pound of meat: 2,500 gallons * Cost of common hamburger meat if water used by meat industry was not subsidized by U.S. taxpayers: $35/pound * Current cost for pound of protein from wheat: $1.50 * Current cost for pound of protein from beefsteak: $15.40 * Cost for pound of protein from beefsteak if U.S. taxpayers ceased subsidizing meat industry's use of water: $89 * Length of time world's petroleum reserves would last if all human beings ate meat-centered diet: 13 years * Length of time world's petroleum reserves would last if all human beings ate vegetarian diet: 260 years * Principal reason for U.S. military intervention in Persian Gulf: Dependence on foreign oil * Barrels of oil imported daily by U.S.: 6,800,000 * Percentage of energy return (as food energy per fossil energy expended) of most energy efficient farming of meat: 34.5% * Percentage of energy return (as food energy per fossil energy expended) of least energy efficient plant food: 328% * Pounds of soybeans produced by the amount of fossil fuel needed to produce 1 pound of feedlot beef: 40 * Percentage of raw materials consumed in U.S. for all purposes presently consumed to produce current meat-centered diet: 33 * Percentage of raw materials consumed in U.S. for all pruposes needed to produce fully vegetarian diet: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Production of excrement by total U.S. human population: 12000 lb/sec * Production of excrement by U.S. Livestock: 250,000 pounds/second * Sewage systems in U.S. cities: Common * Sewage systems in U.S. feedlots: Nil * Amount of wast produced annually by U.S. livestock in confinement operations which is not recycled: 1 billion tons * Relative concentration of feedlot wastes compared to raw domestic sewage: Ten to several hundred times more highly concentrated * Where feedlot waste often ends up: In our water ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Number of U.S. medical schools: 125 * Number of U.S. medical schools with a required course in nutrition: 30 * Training in nutrition received during 4 years of medical school by average U.S. physician: 2.5 hours * How frequently a heart attack strikes in U.S.: Every 25 seconds * How frequently a heart attack kills in U.S.: Every 45 seconds * Most common cause of death in U.S.: Heart attack * Risk of death from heart attack by average American man: 50% * Risk of death from heart attack by average American vegetarian man: 15% * Risk of death from heart attack by average American purely vegetarian man: 4% * Amount you reduce your risk of heart attack by reducing your consumption of meat, dairy products and eggs 10%: 9% * Amount you reduce your risk of heart attack by reducing your consumption of meat, dairy products and eggs 50%: 45% * Amount you reduce your risk of heart attack by reducing your comsumption of meat, dariy products and eggs 100%: 90% * Rise in blood cholesterol from consuming 1 egg per day: 12% * Rise in heart attack risk from 12% rise in blood cholesterol: 24% * Meat, dairy and egg industries claim there is no reason to be concerned about your blood cholesterol as long as it is: "normal" * Your risk of dying a disease caused by clogged arteries if your blood cholesterol is "normal": over 50% * Your risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries if you do not consume saturated fat and cholesterol: 5% * Leading sources of saturated fat and cholesterol in American diets: Meat, dairy products and eggs * Hollywood celebrity paid by Meat Board to tout beef as "Real food for real people": James Garner * Medical event experienced by James Garner in April, 1988: Quintuple coronary artery bypass surgery ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * World populations with high meat intakes who do not have correspondingly high rates of colon cancer: None * World populations with low meat intakes who do not have correspondingly low rates of colon cancer: None * Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat daily compared to women who eat meat less than once a week: 4 times higher * Egg Board's advertising slogan: The incredible edible egg * Photographs often accompanying the egg board's slogan: Young women in bathing suits, emphasizing the shape of their breasts * Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat eggs daily compared to women who eat eggs less than once a week: 3 times higher * Milk Producer's original ad campaign slogan: "Everyone needs milk." * What the Federal Trade Commission called the "Everyone needs milk" slogan: "False, misleading and deceptive" * Milk Producer's revised campaign slogan: "Milk has something for everybody." * Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat butter and cheese 3 or more times a week compared to women who eat these foods less than once a week: 3 times higher * Part of female chicken's body that produces eggs: Ovaries * Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or more times a week compared to women who eat eggs less than once a week: 3 times higher * Foods males in U.S. are conditioned to think of as "manly": Animal products * Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who consume meats, cheese, eggs and milk daily compared to men who eat these foods sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times higher ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * The Meat Board tells us: "Today's meats are low in fat." * The Meat Board shows us: A serving of beef they claim has "only 300 calories". * The Meat Board doesn't tell us: The serving of beef they show us is only 3 onces (half the size of an average serving of beef) and has been surgically defatted with a scalpel. * The dairy industry tells us: Whole milk is 3.5% fat. * The dairy industry doesn't tell us: That 3.5% figure is based on wieght and most of the wieght in milk is water. * The dairy industry doesn't want us to know: The amount of calories as fat in whole milk is 50%. * Oscar Mayer tells us: It is a "myth" that hot dogs are fatty. * Oscar Mayer demonstrates their point favorably comparing the fattiness of hot dogs to such low fat bastions as: Margarine, mayonaise, salad dressing and cream cheese. * The Dairy Council tells us: Milk is nature's most perfect food. * The Dairy Council doesn't tell us: Milk is nature's most perfect food for a baby calf, who has four stomachs, will double its weight in 47 days, and is destined to weigh 300 pounds within a year. * The Dairy Council tells children: To grow up big and strong drink lots of milk. * The Dairy Council occasionally tells children: The enzyme necessary for digestion of milk is lactase. * The Dairy Council never tells children: 20% of Caucasian children and 80% of Black children have no lactase in their intestines. * The meat, dairy and egg industries tell us: Animal products constitute 2 of the "Basic 4" food groups. * The meat, dairy and egg industries don't tell us: There were originally 12 official basic food groups, before these industries applied enormous political pressure on behalf of their products. * The meat, dairy, and egg industries tell us: We are well-fed only with animal products. * The meat, dairy, and egg industries don't tell us: The diseases which are commonly prevented, consistently improved, and sometimes cured by a low-fat vegetarian diet include: Strokes Heart disease Osteoporosis Kidney Stones Breast cancer Colon cancer Prostate cancer Pancreatic cancer Ovarian cancer Cervical cancer Stomach cancer Endometrial cancer Diabetes Hypoglycemia Kidney disease Peptic ulcers Constipation Hemorrhoids Hiatal hernias Diverticulosis Obesity Gallstones Hypertension Asthma Irritable colon syndrome Salmonellosis Trichinosis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by meat: 55% * Supplied by Dairy products: 23% * Supplied by vegetables: 6% * Supplied by fruits: 4% * Supplied by grains: 1% * Percentage of U.S. mother's milk containing significant levels of DDT: 99% * Percentage of U.S. vegetarian mother's milk containing significant levels of DDT: 8% * Relative pesticide contamination in breast milk of meat-eating mothers compared to pesticide contamination in breast milk of vegetarian mothers: 35 times as high * Percentage of male college students sterile in 1950: .5 * Percentage of male college students sterile in 1978: 25 * Sperm count of average American male compared to 30 years ago: Down 30% * Principle reason for sterility and sperm count reduction of U.S. males: Chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides (including dioxin, DDT, etc.) * Percentage of hydrocarbon pesticide residues in American diet attributable to meats, dairy products, fish and eggs: 94% * The Meat Board tells us Not to be concerned about the dioxins and other pesticides in today's beef because: the quantities are so small * The Meat Board doesn't want us to know: How potent dioxin and other pesticides are * The Meat Board particularly doesn't want us to know: A mere ounce of dioxin could kill 10 million people * The USDA tells us: Our meat is inspected * -The USDA doesn't tell us: Less than 1 out of every quarter million slaughtered animals is tested for toxic chemical residues * The dye used for many years by the USDA for many years to stamp meats "Choice", "Prime", or "U.S. No. 1 USDA": Violet dye No. 1 * Current status of Violet Dye No. 1: Banned as proven carcinogen * Wingspan of average Leghorn chicken: 26 inches * Space average leghorn chicken given in egg factories: 6 inches * Number of 700 plus pound pigs confined to space the size of a twin bed in typical factory farm: 3 * Reason today's veal is so tender: Calves never allowed to take a single step * Reason today's veal is whitish-pink: Calves force fed on anemia producing diet * McDonald's brags: 60 Billion sold * McDonald's doesn't brag about: 50 million butchered * McDonald's clown, Ronald McDonald, tells children: Hamburgers grow in hamburger patches and love to be eaten. * McDonald's clown, Ronald McDonald, doesn't tell children: Hamburgers are ground up cows who've had their throats slit by machetes or their brains bashed in by sledgehammers. * Original actor to play Ronald McDonald: Jeff Juliano * Diet now followed by Jeff Juliano: Vegetarian * Number of animals killed for meat per hour in U.S.: 500,000 * Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: Slaughterhouse worker * Occupation with highest employee rate of injury in U.S.: Slaughter- house worker * Cost to render an animal unconscious prior to slaughter with captive bolt pistol so that process is done humanely: 1 penny * Reason given by meat industry for not utilizing captive bolt pistol: Too expensive ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Percentage of total antibiotics used in U.S. fed routinely to livestock: 55 * Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in 1960: 13 * Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in 1988: 91 * Reason: Breeding of antibiotic resistant bacteria in factory farms due to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock * Effectiveness of all "wonder-drug" antibiotics: Declining rapidly * Reason: Breeding of antibiotic resistant bacteria in factory farms due to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock * Response by entire European Economic Community to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: Ban * Response by American meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: Full and complete support * Only man to win Ironman Triathalon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time winner) * Food choices of Dave Scott: Vegetarian * World record holder for 24 triathalon (Swim 4.8 miles, Cycle 185 miles, Run 52.5): Sixto Linares * Food choices of Sixto Linares: Strict vegetarian * Athlete who most totally dominated Olympic sport in track and field history: Edwin Moses (undefeated in 8 years, 400 meter hurdles) * Food choices of Edwin Moses: Vegetarian * Other notable vegetarian athletes: o Stan Price (World record-bench press) o Robert Sweetgall (World's premier ultra-distance walker) o Paavo Nurmi (20 World's records in distance running, 9 Olympic medals) o Bill Pickering (World record - swimming English Channel) o Murray Rose (World records - 400 and 1500 meter freestyles) o Andreas Cahling (Winner - Mr. International body-building championships) o Roy Hilligan (Winner - Mr. America body-building championships) o Pierro Verot (World's record for downhill endurance skiing) o Estelle Gray and Cheryl Marek (World's record for cross- country tandem cycling) o James and Johnathon deDonato (World's record for distance butterfly stroke swimming) o Ridgely Abele (Winner of 8 national championships in Karate, including U.S. Karate Association World Championships) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:35:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA17160; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:35:34 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA17144; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:35:30 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA06219 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:32:43 -0700 Received: from hera.synopsys.com (hera.synopsys.com [146.225.100.23]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA14872 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:35:26 -0700 Received: from [146.225.54.34] (mac-54-34.synopsys.com [146.225.54.34]) by hera.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA05951 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:35:23 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:36:11 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Go to Chrysalis! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Not sure which party to attend this weekend? Loved FnF, Beautiful People, Harmonies of the past? Then go to Chrysalis! You'll find that same happy, loving vibe that some of us crave. The last one I attended was outstanding! Like the chill room at the last FnF, they really give decorating their all :) If it goes off, it's gonna GO OFF, so do yerself a favor and attend this one. Eric P. will be with y'all in spirit (I'll be in the Sierras at summer camp all next week). Love it and keep it real, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:46:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA18438; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:46:43 -0700 Received: from stratacom.strata.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA18425; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:46:38 -0700 Received: from Strata.COM (kiwi.strata.com) by stratacom.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gatekeeper.Strata.Com-950201) id AA19717; Thu, 1 Aug 96 11:45:36 PDT Received: from polaris.strata.com by Strata.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/StrataCom-GCA-Kiwi-931007-1) id AA11966; Thu, 1 Aug 96 11:45:35 PDT Received: by polaris.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08750; Thu, 1 Aug 96 11:46:31 PDT Date: Thu, 1 Aug 96 11:46:31 PDT From: jlawrenc@stratacom.com (Jeremy Lawrence) Message-Id: <9608011846.AA08750@polaris.strata.com> To: rdriffle@ucdavis.edu Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > >And as far as the > >moral issue is concerned, by the time the world will be severely over- > >populated (give it a few more years) I can assure you I will have no > >problem killing a chicken to survive. > > The only problem with this logic is that if more or all of the planet were > vegetarians, there wouldn't be to much starvation. I'm sure someone has > gone over the stats how much grain it takes to produce a pound of meat, as > opposed to how many people that same grain could feed. A typical animal has to eat about 5-10 calories in grain to produce 1 calorie of meat. In other words, grain production is a more efficient food producer than meat production by a factor of about 5-10. (Knucklehead has just posted more complete stats.) However some animals can survive on land which is unsuitable for even low-intensity, permaculture-based cropping. So in a situation of severe over-population, there will be *some* scope for meat production. This meat production would be guaranteed to be "free-range". There would be no scope for dairy or egg production, apart from on a hunter-gatherer level. Jeremy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:47:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA18488; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:47:04 -0700 Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA18482; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:47:01 -0700 X-Received: from mindsphere.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA16146; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:20:45 -0700 X-Received: from [206.79.217.52] by mindsphere.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA25931; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:18:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199607311718.KAA25931@mindsphere.com> X-Sender: phile@mindsphere.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:21:07 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: phil@mindsphere.com (Philip Evans) Subject: Re: Why was I un-subscribed??? Cc: navelring@aol.com ReSent-Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:46:58 -0700 (PDT) ReSent-From: Brian Behlendorf ReSent-To: sfraves@hyperreal.com ReSent-Message-ID: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > For some reason, this weekend, someone somehow unsubscribed me. I didn't >check my mail all week (could that do it?), I didn't do anything bad, (I >don't think), and I don't see why it happened. It's no big deal or nuthin I >was just wondering how it happened so I can avoid it next time. Everyone who >said something pertaining to me or my words of wisdom, sorry if you didn't >get a reply, can you send it again??? > >Thanks a whole bunch!!! > >Aryck Somebody unsubscribed my wife from SoCal Raves, as well. Is this some trendy way of lashing out at random? I can just see it: drive-by unsubs. Some guy sitting in a clock tower somewhere unsubbing people, "just because." Later, [----------] [---] [-----] [-----] [-----] [----------] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [----------] [----------] [---] [---] [----------] [----------] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [--------] [-----] [-----] [---] [-----] [----------] aciddrop@mindsphere.com (the money) aciddrop@earthlink.net (the show) aciddrop@aol.com (go cat go) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:47:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA18517; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:47:11 -0700 Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA18504; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:47:08 -0700 X-Received: from mindsphere.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA18543; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:40:32 -0700 X-Received: from [206.79.217.52] by mindsphere.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA25949; Wed, 31 Jul 1996 10:38:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199607311738.KAA25949@mindsphere.com> X-Sender: phile@mindsphere.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 22:40:54 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: phil@mindsphere.com (Philip Evans) Subject: Re: DJ Mixtape Collective ReSent-Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:47:04 -0700 (PDT) ReSent-From: Brian Behlendorf ReSent-To: sfraves@hyperreal.com ReSent-Message-ID: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Yah, I think you're right. But, do all mix tapes cost $15 I am new, havn't >bought one yet)? That's a rip off! Of us AND the DJ! If the DJ only get's a >small cut, then where do the $ go to? Probably not the record store! Indie. >tapes of local _bands_ don't go for that much! And they have to pay >recording studios and stuff to get it made! Just my .02 > >!!!tuO ecaeP > >-Juhstyn Absolutely. That point has been made by many a punk band, who sell *CDs* for $8. >My reason is that it costs to produce and distribute these tapes and >DJ's make very little money back on them as it is... it's been my >experience that a lot of them are given to friends & promoters anyway... >SO I'm saying scrounge a bit, dig deeper and support your local DJ >favorites with the extra cash.... > > I feel it's fine to copy tapes that are out of production or were not >released for sale btw... like someone's dat made at a party.... > > I would be more in support of the pass around and copy if some way was >implimented to make sure that some $$ support made it to the DJ's via >collections etc. but I still suspect that the stores selling the tapes >also need every $ they can get... > > Someone can correct me if I'm off base here - but this is my immediate >impulse.... I still haven't figured out the economics of mixtapes. I've talked to people at every step of the way: DJs, record store owners, mixtape dealers (yes, there are some of those,) and they all claim to make very little on each tape (about $1-$2 seems to be the average claim.) So where do the $15 to $18 go? You get $2 for the DJ, $2 for the middleman. Does that mean duping and art is costing $11 to $14 per tape? No way. So here's my theory: $5 to $6 to the DJ, $5 to $6 to the middleman, and $5 to $6 for duping and art, meaning everybody's making a healthier profit then they're letting on (and more power to them,) and the duplicators are ripping everybody off. I still buy a fair number of mixtapes. I just stay aware of the economics, and figure that DJs get paid to play, so that takes care of buying records (it's their overhead, so to speak.) Mixtapes are just a potentially lucrative sideline. You don't hear people like Eli Star or (cough, spit) Keoki complaining about how they make so little money from mixtapes! But then again, you have people like Joe Rice who practically give their tapes away, and those are often my favorites anyway. Peace, and thanks for hanging with me this long... [----------] [---] [-----] [-----] [-----] [----------] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [----------] [----------] [---] [---] [----------] [----------] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [--------] [-----] [-----] [---] [-----] [----------] aciddrop@mindsphere.com (the money) aciddrop@earthlink.net (the show) aciddrop@aol.com (go cat go) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:51:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA18905; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:51:08 -0700 Received: from oldmail.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA18897; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:51:03 -0700 Received: from [205.231.222.75] by oldmail.domain.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:51:02 -0700 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jay From: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) Subject: Re: About the Meat Vs. Veggie.. Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:51:02 -0700 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Why can't we all just agree to disagree on this subject. Many people (like >me) are just >not too interested in becoming vegitarian. Don't you guys watch the >Simpsons? Remeber >when Lisa Simpson wanted to become a vegitarian? She tried to make >everyone else one >too, but then after Abu and Paul McCartney had a little talk with Lisa, >she realized >that she has to accept the people for who they are and not impose the >vegitarianism on >them. I bet that everyone on this list respects your choice on that. I really haven't seen any hassle another because of there choice, at least not publicly. I eat meat too. I don't think I can give up BBQ'd Beef Ribs, or steak. Probally the other forms of meat I could give up easy, but not those two. Tim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 11:54:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA19202; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:54:30 -0700 Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA19195; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:54:26 -0700 Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA14494; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA838925788; Thu, 01 Aug 96 11:42:24 pst Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 11:42:24 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9607018389.AA838925788@smtplink.acer.com> To: shamini@alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov, John Bagby Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re[2]: meat vs. veggies Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk More amazing insights from the gentleman who wrote 'wang dang sweet poontang'. I wish I could be that deep someday. And yes, he does have a point, but there's few things as cruel as bowhunting (if you consider lengthy death cruel, and if you empathise with critters). Did I mention he's a republican? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies Author: John Bagby at smtplink-acs Date: 8/1/96 10:37 AM On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Shamini Jain wrote: > I'm sure many people might find this ridiculous and extreme, but I > really feel like you're NOT really conscious of the energy of the > plant/animal unless you visit/take it/kill it yourself. This is such a beautiful perspective. Funny, I saw Ted Nugent on Politically Incorrect a few weeks ago, and he said the same thing about killing animals. Harvesting food makes for strange bedfellows. ;) P.S. Don't get me wrong I think Nugent is a pig, but he does have a point about how removed american society is from how we get our meat. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 12:02:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA20140; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:02:52 -0700 Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA20116; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:02:43 -0700 Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA156246157; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:02:37 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:02:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Overpopulation (was Re: meat vs. veggies)NRR To: Ronald Knegtel Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9608011120.ZM14048@horatio.ucsf.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > The problem is that no matter what solution, the exponential explosion of > human population is going to catch up with it at some point. And think > about this, if every other living animal that is now being bred for > human consumption would be set free to breed, eat and live happily ever > after, where would they go? This will sound brutal and unkind, but people pen up animals so that they don't breed freely and eat up all the food. But people are doing exactly that: they are freely breeding and eating up all the food! I saw this show on Oprah one day (yes, I unashamedly watch television!) and the topic was on large families. There were all these people cheering about families of 10, 15 and 17 etc. memebers like they are proud of it! How can women turn themselves into brood mares like that??? What's more, how can they possibly *afford* all those kids? I don't see anything wrong with having one or two kids - I'm even feeling somewhat guilty for wanting *one* child someday. Yes, human overpopulation is a topic that much concerns me. I think its one of the reasons why people are so terrible to each other. Remember the rat experiments where they were forced to live too many in the cage? The rats ended up killing each other and dying of stress related causes. I think the same thing is happening, to a certain extent, to humans. love, Amy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 12:10:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA21268; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:10:28 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA21259; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:10:25 -0700 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA16624 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.79.2.38] ([206.79.2.38]) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA02106 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:07:48 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:09:57 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: simpsons (was Re: About the Meat Vs. Veggie..) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >>Why can't we all just agree to disagree on this subject. Many people (like >>me) are just >>not too interested in becoming vegitarian. Don't you guys watch the >>Simpsons? Remeber >>when Lisa Simpson wanted to become a vegitarian? She tried to make >>everyone else one >>too, but then after Abu and Paul McCartney had a little talk with Lisa, >>she realized >>that she has to accept the people for who they are and not impose the >>vegitarianism on >>them. meanwhile, the writers of the show are trying to push vegetarianism on us. The Simpsons is hands down my favorite show and TV, but that episode pretty much bummed me out because the show never stooped to ABC-family-style preachiness of that sort in the past, and all of a sudden the irreverent brutal jokes become few-and-far-between amidst Apu's garden of delight and Paul McC's cocky liverpool salad humor. I'm sorry for the negative vibe of this post, but I feel very strongly about the Simpsons. =) -m. PS... did anyone get last season's finale on tape? I hear Cypress Hill was on it... I kicked myself right in the ass (not an easy feat, to be sure!) when I found out I missed it. Will they show it again before this season's premiere? -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | | | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | | | | avec le Headlands Band website | | et dj StarEyes aussi! | | | | Michal Migurski | | (408) 264-6604 | | | |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| | | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 12:11:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA21321; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:11:08 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA21315; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:11:04 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA07861 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:08:10 -0700 Received: from hera.synopsys.com (hera.synopsys.com [146.225.100.23]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA18649; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:10:53 -0700 Received: from [146.225.54.34] (mac-54-34.synopsys.com [146.225.54.34]) by hera.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA13835; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:10:49 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:11:37 -0700 To: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: About the Meat Vs. Veggie.. Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Filet mignon, every November 8th, for my birthday dinner. I love it! That's the only time I know I'll be eating "red meat." The rest of the time, maybe I'll use lean ground beef in my chili or spaghetti, but usually I'll mix it or substitute it with ground turkey. Santa Maria tri-tips are also delicious! My dad has a preparation for cooking them on the BBQ that can't be beat :) I don't think anyone views us as horrible people for the things we eat. As long as we respect everyone's right to make their own choices, and as long as enough of the earth's resources are preserved, people of diverse diets can co-exist relatively peacefully. - E "How 'bout a nice, greasy pork sandwich, served on a dirty ashtray?" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 12:22:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA22430; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:22:28 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA22422; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:22:25 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA08266 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:19:38 -0700 Received: from hera.synopsys.com (hera.synopsys.com [146.225.100.23]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA19760; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:22:20 -0700 Received: from [146.225.54.34] (mac-54-34.synopsys.com [146.225.54.34]) by hera.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA15886; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:22:17 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:23:04 -0700 To: "Andy Wyszkowski" From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re[2]: meat vs. veggies Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Bowhunting isn't that cruel, but there's no non-cruel way to kill, is there? The animal is shot to bring it down, then it's throat is supposed to be slit to kill it. Humans have hunted that way for milennia. We should poll some indigenous people for their perspective on this whole meat issue. - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 12:27:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA23103; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:27:50 -0700 Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA23083; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:27:45 -0700 Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA23329; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:27:31 -0700 Received: from hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA09776; Thu, 1 Aug 96 12:27:30 PDT Date: Thu, 1 Aug 96 12:27:30 PDT From: timb@nit.AirTouch.COM (Tim Beauchamp) Message-Id: <9608011927.AA09776@nit.AirTouch.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, knucklehead@club.net Subject: Re: this is great....Meat/Veggie Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Knucklehead wrote: > If a cow was raise > as gentle and as good as humanly possible, free from and harm, then given > something that when it goes to sleep it just never wakes up. No pain or > suffering. It's that more exemptable(sp?) to eat it then? In Japan there's two types of beef that are supposed to the the best and most expensive in the world. The cows live the life of luxury (without freedom but then there's something to be said for that too) - fed beer-soaked oats - massaged 3 times daily then slaughtered for some really tender beef. Don't sound to bad to me. I wonder if there's any like-minded canabals out there looking for livestock? Tim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 12:33:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA23735; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:33:33 -0700 Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA23722; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:33:28 -0700 From: TBOBSC@tevm2.nsc.com Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id MAA05374 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:34:38 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (V1.3) id sma005198; Thu Aug 1 12:34:19 1996 Received: from tevm2.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA24596 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 96 12:33:01 -0700 Message-Id: <9608011933.AA24596@nsc.nsc.com> Received: from TEVM2 by tevm2.nsc.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7347; Thu, 01 Aug 96 12:33:41 PDT Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 12:33:40 PDT To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: RE: meat vs. veggies Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk FROM: Robert Brown *** Resending note of 08/01/96 11:03 SUBJECT: RE: meat vs. veggies Now, I swore I wasn't going to get into this meat vs. veggie thing because it's just not an issue with me. People are going to eat how and what they want, as they have a right to. Though this is a pleasantly civil discussion, I'm surprised the thread has lingered this long. Personally, I have no problem whatsoever in lower life forms being killed for my culinary pleasure. I am also satisfied that I need not justify that decision with anyone other than myself. Neither does a vegitarian need to justify his/her decision. My diet is healthy and balanced, and all health tests concerning such things as cholesterol are excellent so all is just peachy on the nutrition front. :) I did however have to comment on the below items... >I agree with rick, even if I do eat meat...take a look at these FACTS, I >have alot more where this comes from too Uh, no, these are not "FACTS", these are statistics/trivia as currently presented. Statistics can say anything. This is not to say they are or are not true since there are too many unanswered questions to even get to that point yet. Questions such as how were these figures arrived at? What sort of study was conducted? Who conducted them and when? Etc., etc.... > * Risk of death from heart attack by average American man: 50% Define "risk of death." What exactly does that mean? Who is the "average American man"? Does this say that a fit 19yo male has a 50% chance of dying today of a heart attack? Or is this a 58yo man who smokes 3 packs of cig's per day, eats an obscenely high fat diet, is 100lbs overweight, and sits on his ass all day long? > * Risk of death from heart attack by average American vegetarian man: 15% > * Risk of death from heart attack by average American purely vegetarian > man: 4% Again, who is this "average American vegitarian"? Is he of the same age as the prior "average American"? Are ALL other variables the same except for diet, or does this "average" person also exercise regularly and does not smoke? As you can see these are fairly meaningless statistics without appropriate back up. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 12:39:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA24700; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:39:52 -0700 Received: from stratacom.strata.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA24694; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:39:49 -0700 Received: from Strata.COM (kiwi.strata.com) by stratacom.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gatekeeper.Strata.Com-950201) id AA20667; Thu, 1 Aug 96 12:39:17 PDT Received: from polaris.strata.com by Strata.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/StrataCom-GCA-Kiwi-931007-1) id AA22779; Thu, 1 Aug 96 12:39:16 PDT Received: by polaris.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08765; Thu, 1 Aug 96 12:40:12 PDT Date: Thu, 1 Aug 96 12:40:12 PDT From: jlawrenc@stratacom.com (Jeremy Lawrence) Message-Id: <9608011940.AA08765@polaris.strata.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: this is great....Meat/Veggie Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > In Japan there's two types of beef that are supposed to the the best > and most expensive in the world. The cows live the life of luxury > (without freedom but then there's something to be said for that too) Maybe the cows would prefer to be out munching grass? Has anyone thought to ask them? :) Jeremy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 12:42:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA25022; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:42:46 -0700 Received: from psiwa5.Syntex.Com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA25015; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:42:43 -0700 Received: (from marisaw@localhost) by psiwa5.Syntex.Com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA12958 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:39:52 -0700 From: Marisa Giancarla Message-Id: <199608011939.MAA12958@psiwa5.Syntex.Com> Subject: Re: this is great....Meat/Veggie To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfraves) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9608011927.AA09776@nit.AirTouch.COM> from "Tim Beauchamp" at Aug 1, 96 12:27:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 176 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > Don't sound to bad to me. I wonder if there's any like-minded canabals > out there looking for livestock? Do you really want an answer to that? Marisa From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 12:51:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA25868; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:51:12 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA25860; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:51:08 -0700 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA23688; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.79.2.38] ([206.79.2.38]) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA09683; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:46:44 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:48:53 -0700 To: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re[2]: meat vs. veggies Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Bowhunting isn't that cruel, but there's no non-cruel way to kill, is >there? The animal is shot to bring it down, then it's throat is supposed >to be slit to kill it. Humans have hunted that way for milennia. We >should poll some indigenous people for their perspective on this whole meat >issue. they'd prbably tell you that when they go out and kill an animal, they use the meat, the skin, the bones and other parts for more than just food. They'd be pretty shocked to see some meat packing slaughterhouse here where maybe half the meat is used and the rest of the animal is either thrown away or sent to McD's. I think there's a helluva lot more respect and honor involved when a group of people get together and bring down an animal that they need to survive, than when a group of people build a meat packing plant in some former central american rainforest so fat white trash hicks can enjoy a royale with cheese. People never ate meat like they do now; even in Europe no one ate meat regularly until just this century; meat was just too valuable and the animals too useful to kill em for burgers. Mass consumption of meat is an american invention (my cousin in Poland was watching NBA basketball and his first comment was "there's so many fat people in America!" --you think that has anything to do with our eating habits?). I think the pioneers were too lucky to find all this empty space; it's bred an attitude of arrogance in americans that makes us think we can do any damn thing we please and ain't nobody gonna get in our way. I do still eat meat, but I'm tryin' ringo... I'm tryin' REAL HARD to be the shepherd. -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | | | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | | | | avec le Headlands Band website | | et dj StarEyes aussi! | | | | Michal Migurski | | (408) 264-6604 | | | |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| | | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 12:52:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA25961; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:52:02 -0700 Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA25945; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 12:51:58 -0700 From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA19894; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:50:31 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:50:31 -0400 Message-ID: <960801155030_169603827@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: brian@hyperreal.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: DJ Mixtape Collective Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I gave away over 160.00 in tapes and i would do it again. There are certain costs to promote yourself and giving away mixtapes is one of them. Fuck that 15 shit... Most places take tapes on consignment they get part of whatever they sell... Jonathan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 13:17:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA28768; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:17:21 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA28745; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:17:15 -0700 Received: from (shawna-@wck-ca5-22.ix.netcom.com [199.35.213.182]) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA24547 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:16:42 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:16:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199608012016.NAA24547@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: shawna-@ix.netcom.com (Shawna McGourty) Subject: Re: Chrysalis vs. Juggernaut To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Ok, so I need to do some SERIOUS vibe generation this saturday. I've >been told Chrysalis really represents the beauty of the Sf scene, and is >brimming with PLUR. But Juggernaut has some DJs listed that promise to >rock my world, but good. Well I'll be at Chrysalis myself! Come say hi, I finally found my silver pants, so now I'll be in full silver regalia! :) (shirt, pants & shoes) KaySEE if you're coming, you should wear your silver outfit so we can be the Silver Sisters! ;) Love, Shawna From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 13:19:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA29038; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:19:22 -0700 Received: from wired.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA29029; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:19:19 -0700 Received: from [204.62.132.173] (jaws.wired.com [204.62.132.173]) by wired.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06462 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:19:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: jen@wired.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:26:27 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: jen@hotwired.com (jaw's) Subject: Re: DJ Mixtape Collective Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk well, i certainly don't think this is a bad idea. whether or not the dj's and artists get paid for an individual tape, they still benefit from the added exposure to new and receptive ears - that is, if those who make the copies also transfer the dj/artist/tracks/labelcontacts/telephone#s and really whatever came with the original (cover art included) to the copy. on an individual level trading works for everyone and never gets out of control because it's limited by the number of new people one can meet but when centralized on the internet the number of copies is sure to increase. i don't know if it's good or bad, i guess we all want to get something for nothing? feels better that way? personally i think it's in the best interest of community to start directing funds to others in our community rather than trying to get things for free. rather than going out to buy something from a personally anonymous company spread your money (energy) on those you feel are doing good or to quote someone "put your money where your mind is". create your own economic network. perhaps a way to make the tape collective more palatable to the djs and artists who will eventually be willingly or not donating to the cause would be to take a collection for tapes traded (i'm thinking a dollar or so) and have a vote or tally the tapes sold and throw a party, invite the dj's who sold the most tapes and spread the money back to them so they can buy more records to make more tapes for you to buy and then trade some more. the essence of this message is reallly that in order for any community to sustain and grow energy (money) must flow. the alternative is a dead-end where dj's don't make enough to buy records to support the artists to make more records to be played in clubs where new faces get turned on and want some tapes to take home - but oh there's no tapes anymore, or clubs either because nobody wants to pay anymore they'd rather pay for drugs and shoes and bits of glitter than for music. if you've got it, spread it around, if you're empty now dupe today and tomorrow when you've got a little to share remember those who got you through hard times and buy a tape, alternatively why not send something you have made? energy exchange doesn't always have to use money for a vehicle, knit a cap, write a story, bake some cookies, make dinner, rap on someone's answering machine, collect some sand dollars on the beach, learn origami....... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 13:23:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA29359; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:23:28 -0700 Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA29352; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:23:25 -0700 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp035-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.35]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id NAA12067 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:22:49 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960801202549.00a03d68@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 13:25:49 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Hardhat 99 Subject: Re: this is great....Meat/Veggie [NRR] Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Vegetrians then any other city in the Bay Area. and 2. If a cow was raise >as gentle and as good as humanly possible, free from and harm, then given >something that when it goes to sleep it just never wakes up. No pain or >suffering. It's that more exemptable(sp?) to eat it then? it might make you feel better, but the point is, you are still eating way up on the food chain, and wasting loads of energy by doing so (in the sense of the ecosystem). From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 13:32:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA00414; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:32:30 -0700 Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA00407; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:32:28 -0700 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp035-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.35]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id NAA12981 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:31:52 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960801203452.00a051a0@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 13:34:52 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Optimus Prime 99 Subject: the unhealthy vegetarian diet [NRR] Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >>you should >>become vegiterian which is, as I have already stated earlier, a very >>unhealthy diet to have. >I may be missing the context here, (I missed your first post about it), but >are you really saying you think a vegetarian diet is unhealthy? That >statement is crazy. I'm not trying to flame you, but I would like to know really, i was wondering the same thing. how my lifelong diet is somehow unhealthy, even though i am much healthier and have a much faster metabolism than most people i know. me and my unhealthy diet will challenge anyone to a food/tennis contest. first i eat as many veggies as possible, my oppenent eats as much food as possible. then we play. i'm feeling pretty confident about my chances. ;) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 13:43:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA01604; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:43:58 -0700 Received: from psiwa5.Syntex.Com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA01589; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:43:55 -0700 Received: (from marisaw@localhost) by psiwa5.Syntex.Com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA13094 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:41:08 -0700 From: Marisa Giancarla Message-Id: <199608012041.NAA13094@psiwa5.Syntex.Com> Subject: Re: the unhealthy vegetarian diet [NRR] To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfraves) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:41:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960801203452.00a051a0@pop.sirius.com> from "Optimus Prime 99" at Aug 1, 96 01:34:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 437 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > me and my unhealthy diet will challenge anyone to a food/tennis contest. > first i eat as many veggies as possible, my oppenent eats as much food as > possible. then we play. i'm feeling pretty confident about my chances. ;) Are you sure you don't want to narrow "food" down to "meat"? _My_ unhealthy diet consists of lots of sugars, caffiene, and other stims. You SURE you think you will have more energy than I do? ;-) Marisa From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 13:50:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA02230; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:50:33 -0700 Received: from orion.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA02224; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:50:29 -0700 Received: (from saberant@localhost) by orion.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id NAA09394; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:50:21 -0700 (PDT) From: SARAH ABERANT X-Sender: saberant@orion To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: join me... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk come party with me tonight!! sarah From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 13:52:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA02434; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:52:36 -0700 Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA02427; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:52:30 -0700 Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id NAA06021; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:52:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199608012052.NAA06021@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Re: Prodigy To: knegtel@horatio.ucsf.EDU (Ronald Knegtel) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9608011041.ZM13930@horatio.ucsf.edu> from "Ronald Knegtel" at Aug 1, 96 10:41:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I hear it has been cancelled. -troy > > Hey all, > > I was wondering if anybody out there knows what the deal with the Prodigy > performing at the Trocadero tonight. Adds in the SF weekly state that this > is a free event, but that one should listen to live 105 for details. > For obscure reasons that frequency seems to be taken over by KFOG and > some religious station on my radio so I can't get the details... > And since it is supposedly _free_, I'm concerned there may be a catch. > Mrs. Frying Dutchman would really love to go... > > The Frying Dutchman > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 13:53:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA02513; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:53:22 -0700 Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA02491; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:53:16 -0700 Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14747; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA838933021; Thu, 01 Aug 96 13:47:54 pst Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 13:47:54 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9607018389.AA838933021@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, jlawrenc@stratacom.com (Jeremy Lawrence) Subject: Re[2]: this is great....Meat/Veggie Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > In Japan there's two types of beef that are supposed to the the best > and most expensive in the world. The cows live the life of luxury > (without freedom but then there's something to be said for that too) Maybe the cows would prefer to be out munching grass? Has anyone thought to ask them? :) Jeremy ------------------ They're not in the moooooood. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 13:58:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA03191; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:58:55 -0700 Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA03172; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:58:50 -0700 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp035-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.35]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id NAA14786 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:58:14 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960801210114.00a05928@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 14:01:14 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Optimus Prime 99 Subject: Re: the unhealthy vegetarian diet [NRR] Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >> me and my unhealthy diet will challenge anyone to a food/tennis contest. >> first i eat as many veggies as possible, my oppenent eats as much food as >> possible. then we play. i'm feeling pretty confident about my chances. ;) > > Are you sure you don't want to narrow "food" down to "meat"? _My_ >unhealthy diet consists of lots of sugars, caffiene, and other stims. >You SURE you think you will have more energy than I do? ;-) heh. =) but just meat would signify a carnivore, we're talking about omnivores. while sugar, caffeine, etc, may help you feel better, they only inhibit you in a sport where supreme concentration for hours on end is required (i.e. tennis). and with sugar, you're going back to the issue of simple carbohydrates and complex carbohydrates. sugar might make you feel good for a while, but after that short time you're going to burn out and not be able to compete at maximum ability in any sport of long-duration. i'm sure my diet that consists of mostly complex carbohydrates will have a signifigant advantage over any that consists of simple carbohydrates and stimulants. i'm still feeling pretty good about my chances. ;) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 14:07:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA04224; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:07:12 -0700 Received: from oldmail.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA04207; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:07:08 -0700 Received: from [205.231.222.75] by oldmail.domain.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:07:04 -0700 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Optimus Prime 99 From: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) Subject: Re: the unhealthy vegetarian diet [NRR] Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:07:04 -0700 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >me and my unhealthy diet will challenge anyone to a food/tennis contest. >first i eat as many veggies as possible, my oppenent eats as much food as >possible. then we play. i'm feeling pretty confident about my chances. ;) I can say this about the energy veggies give you, everytime I go to Fresh Choice...for those who don't know it is a all you can eat salads and pasta place. I load up on salad and pasta..no meat. I get full, but it doesn't feel the same way. I don't feel a bad full like I do with meat. I also get a little high of the food. It a great natural high, and I feel great. Just throwing in another 2 cents. Tim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 14:17:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA05298; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:17:56 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA05262; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:17:51 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA13392 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:15:04 -0700 Received: from hera.synopsys.com (hera.synopsys.com [146.225.100.23]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA01678; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:17:47 -0700 Received: from [146.225.54.34] (mac-54-34.synopsys.com [146.225.54.34]) by hera.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA10581; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:17:43 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:18:32 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Astrological signs of sfravers Cc: Czefir@aol.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The results are in! 97 people volunteered their signs. >From largest to smallest number, they are: Aquarius - 11 Gemini - 10 Cancer - 9 Pisces - 9 Aries - 8 Capricorn - 8 Taurus - 8 Leo - 7 Libra - 7 Scorpio - 7 Virgo - 7 Sagittarius - 6 An interesting mix. What does this say about the types of people we have here? I think Leslie could shed some light on this. Any observations, Leslie? Thanks, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 14:28:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA06438; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:28:49 -0700 Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA06419; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:28:41 -0700 Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id OAA06928 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:28:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199608012128.OAA06928@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: SFRaves Burning Camp? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:28:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I don't know if I want to face the harsh life of Playa living with only our 6 person rented minivan crew. Anyone itnerested in loosely organizing a SFR burning camp for all us stragglers who are not already in a camp? -troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 14:33:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA07075; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:33:25 -0700 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA06994; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:33:18 -0700 Received: (from scarab@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA25267; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:33:09 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:33:08 -0700 (PDT) From: KaySEE To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Food For Thought Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Here's a thought for everyone in relation to our current veg/meat thingee: Name a country outside of the industrial world (especially the U.S.) that is rich enough to provide a healthy year-round *vegan* (not just vegetarian) diet. You'll be hard pressed to find one. The Third-World lacks the resources to provide the required food year-round that a healthy vegan diet requires. Milk and eggs are usually a necessary supplement. So, eating *vegan* in the U.S. is actually quite a luxury. the devil's advocate, KaySEE ****Shit, goddamn, get off your ass and jam**** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 14:38:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA07577; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:38:08 -0700 Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA07551; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:38:02 -0700 Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id OAA22238; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608012137.OAA22238@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: Astrological signs of sfravers Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I thought you were going to name names? Rick At 02:18 PM 8/1/96 -0700, you wrote: >The results are in! >97 people volunteered their signs. >>From largest to smallest number, they are: > >Aquarius - 11 >Gemini - 10 >Cancer - 9 >Pisces - 9 >Aries - 8 >Capricorn - 8 >Taurus - 8 >Leo - 7 >Libra - 7 >Scorpio - 7 >Virgo - 7 >Sagittarius - 6 > >An interesting mix. What does this say about the types of people we have >here? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 14:38:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA07649; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:38:50 -0700 Received: from alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA07639; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:38:43 -0700 Received: (from shamini@localhost) by alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) id OAA09288; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:35:16 -0700 From: Shamini Jain Message-Id: <199608012135.OAA09288@alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov> Subject: Re: Re[2]: this is great....Meat/Veggie To: awyszkow@smtplink.acer.com (Andy Wyszkowski) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9607018389.AA838933021@smtplink.acer.com> from "Andy Wyszkowski" at Aug 1, 96 01:47:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 548 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > > > > > In Japan there's two types of beef that are supposed to the the best > > and most expensive in the world. The cows live the life of luxury > > (without freedom but then there's something to be said for that too) > > Maybe the cows would prefer to be out munching grass? Has anyone > thought to ask them? > > :) > > Jeremy > > ------------------ > > They're not in the moooooood. > > ya know, some animal jokes are really good and some are just baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadddddddd! --hahaaaaaaaaaaa! %^D From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 14:43:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA08031; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:43:18 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA08015; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:43:15 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA14741 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:40:28 -0700 Received: from hera.synopsys.com (hera.synopsys.com [146.225.100.23]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA04631 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:43:10 -0700 Received: from [146.225.54.34] (mac-54-34.synopsys.com [146.225.54.34]) by hera.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA16201 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:43:06 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:43:53 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: Astrological signs of sfravers Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >I thought you were going to name names? > >Rick > Gimme two weeks, and I'll do it :) - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 14:47:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA08495; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:47:48 -0700 Received: from umr.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA08487; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:47:44 -0700 Received: from saucer.cc.umr.edu (saucer.cc.umr.edu [131.151.1.58]) via ESMTP by hermes.cc.umr.edu (8.7.5/R.4.16) id QAA25758; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:47:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from (rkumar@localhost) by saucer.cc.umr.edu (8.6.12/M.3.01) id QAA04090; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:47:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199608012147.QAA04090@saucer.cc.umr.edu> Subject: Re: Food For Thought To: scarab@value.net (KaySEE) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:47:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "roger kumar" Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "KaySEE" at Aug 1, 96 02:33:08 pm Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk yy X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 939 > Here's a thought for everyone in relation to our current veg/meat thingee: > > Name a country outside of the industrial world (especially the U.S.) that > is rich enough to provide a healthy year-round *vegan* (not just > vegetarian) diet. You'll be hard pressed to find one. india > The Third-World lacks the resources to provide the required food > year-round that a healthy vegan diet requires. Milk and eggs are usually > a necessary supplement. > > So, eating *vegan* in the U.S. is actually quite a luxury. > many vegans in india, and many vegitarians, and many omnivores. :) my dad's family is vegan. of course, indians in the indusrialized areas are usually not.. > > the devil's advocate, > > KaySEE > > ****Shit, goddamn, get off your ass and jam**** > -- pJou_| pgp encrypted fone and mail accepted rkumar@lbl.gov _l rkumar@fnord-1.lbl.gov rkumar@fnord.org rkumar@umr.edu From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 14:48:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA08575; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:48:48 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA08569; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:48:45 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA15070 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:45:57 -0700 Received: from hera.synopsys.com (hera.synopsys.com [146.225.100.23]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA05290; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:48:39 -0700 Received: from [146.225.54.34] (mac-54-34.synopsys.com [146.225.54.34]) by hera.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA17503; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:48:36 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:49:23 -0700 To: stellar@value.net From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: Astrological signs of sfravers Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >gee i wish more people had volunteered. im sure the results are not accurate. >a more comprehensive study would be good. >a party each month for each sign? >kevin >;) AND a party for each set of signs that are most compatible! That would probably be mostly a chill party ;) - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 14:50:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA08710; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:50:17 -0700 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA08703; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:50:14 -0700 From: stellar@value.net Received: (from stellar@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA26549; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:50:12 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:50:12 -0700 (PDT) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: hemp/meat/veggies... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk well all these posts about vegetarianism/meat eating, and especially how the use of the earth's resources is involved. hemp entered my mind, perhaps because of some connection between current inefficient use of resources, and alternative more efficient methods/resources. if we are considering compassionate ways of livng and using what the earth has given us, hemp is a crucial element. instead of clearcutting forests for cattle, plant hemp? hmmm... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 14:54:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA09045; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:54:26 -0700 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA09028; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:54:18 -0700 Received: from linda.teleport.com (root@linda.teleport.com [192.108.254.12]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA01488; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from shakti@localhost) by linda.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA23872; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:48:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:48:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Brenda*shakti X-Sender: shakti@linda.teleport.com Reply-To: Brenda*shakti To: "Eric P. Peterson" cc: frisco groovers , The Teknowers , northwest cybergroovers Subject: Re: Astrological signs of sfravers (NRR) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk (and to my friends on nw-raves, too :) Well, I'm a Taurus, Eric (May 18, 19647)...How about Galactic Signatures? (Mayan Calendar). According to the Mayans, I'm a Red Planetary Serpent (Chicchan 10) and TODAY is my super-duper power day! Today is Red Planetary Serpent, this is the wisdom for today and the vibration I was born into and carry with me... "Kin (day) 205 of the Tzolkin: INSTINCT Tribe: Chiccan - (CHEEK'CHAN) "Serpent" East, Red. Focus in the intrinsic wisdom of your body. Honor the perfection of your physical temple. Call on your instinct. Merge with the vibrant life force pulsing within. Tone: 10. Manifestation. Meet my challenge. Perfect my manifestation, Produce! "Planetary." from Galactic Mayan Calender, Ben 4 Productions, Portland, OR... made by Sister Sky Compton. If anyone wants any info about these calendars let me know...natural time is BAD-ASS! and lot more fun than the Gregorian calendar. happy manifestation! madame shakti, aka, bren :) p.s. we just started a new year, Blue Self-Existing Storm year and this is Moon 1, "Magnetic Bat" which is Moon of Purpose. Why did you come to this planet? What is your purpose? Call the Ahau voiceline for a special message... Tribe of the Solar Mind http://www.ahau.com/~shakti ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo The Ahau Collective * 333 SW Park. Ave * Portland, OR 97205 * (503)237-AHAU from sfraves: The results are in! 97 people volunteered their signs. >From largest to smallest number, they are: Aquarius - 11 Gemini - 10 Cancer - 9 Pisces - 9 Aries - 8 Capricorn - 8 Taurus - 8 Leo - 7 Libra - 7 Scorpio - 7 Virgo - 7 Sagittarius - 6 An interesting mix. What does this say about the types of people we have here? I think Leslie could shed some light on this. Any observations, Leslie? Thanks, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 15:00:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA09737; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:00:42 -0700 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA09726; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:00:38 -0700 Received: from linda.teleport.com (shakti@linda.teleport.com [192.108.254.12]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA05116; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from shakti@localhost) by linda.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA24706; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:00:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Brenda*shakti X-Sender: shakti@linda.teleport.com To: stellar@value.net cc: frisco groovers Subject: Re: hemp/meat/veggies... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996 stellar@value.net wrote: > well all these posts about vegetarianism/meat eating, and especially how > the use of the earth's resources is involved. hemp entered my mind, > perhaps because of some connection between current inefficient use of > resources, and alternative more efficient methods/resources. > if we are considering compassionate ways of livng and using what the > earth has given us, hemp is a crucial element. > instead of clearcutting forests for cattle, plant hemp? > hmmm... > right on! the Ahau collective shares communal space with the NW-hemp foundation, of well, we're all family :) we eat communal organic-vegitarian dinners every night and we our brother Chris Iverson brews hemp beer :) shit, i gotta get a web page up...come visit us! woo, i got alotta energy today but it is my super-duper power day! love, bren Tribe of the Solar Mind http://www.ahau.com/~shakti ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo The Ahau Collective * 333 SW Park. Ave * Portland, OR 97205 * (503)237-AHAU From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 15:01:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA09863; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:01:38 -0700 Received: from horatio.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA09852; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:01:33 -0700 Received: (from knegtel@localhost) by horatio.ucsf.EDU (940816.SGI.8.6.9/GSC4.24) id PAA14648 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:01:31 -0700 From: "Ronald Knegtel" Message-Id: <9608011501.ZM14646@horatio.ucsf.edu> Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:01:30 -0700 In-Reply-To: "roger kumar" "Re: Food For Thought" (Aug 1, 4:47pm) References: <199608012147.QAA04090@saucer.cc.umr.edu> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Food For Thought Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Aug 1, 4:47pm, roger kumar wrote: > Subject: Re: Food For Thought > yy > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Length: 939 > > > Here's a thought for everyone in relation to our current veg/meat thingee: > > > > Name a country outside of the industrial world (especially the U.S.) that > > is rich enough to provide a healthy year-round *vegan* (not just > > vegetarian) diet. You'll be hard pressed to find one. > > india For its entire population (including lower kastes (sp.???))? The Frying Dutchman -- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 15:10:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA10880; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:10:43 -0700 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA10859; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:10:30 -0700 Received: from uucp1.unix.portal.com (uucp1.unix.portal.com [156.151.4.11]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA13579; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:08:23 -0700 Received: from compattic.com (uucp@localhost) by uucp1.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with UUCP id PAA12230; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:04:24 -0700 From: aguevara@compattic.com (Adam Guevara) Reply-To: aguevara@compattic.com To: saberant@sfsu.edu Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: join me... Date: 01 Aug 1996 22:54:40 GMT Message-Id: <712605.197252343@compattic.com> Organization: Computer Attic Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk OK, What's a going on where??? "dance with me..." Adam ____________________________ Transmitted from Computer Attic SuperCenter: (415) 363-8100 Corporate HQ: (415) 614-7500 ____________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 15:15:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA11322; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:15:29 -0700 Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA11269; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:15:22 -0700 From: Juhstyn@aol.com Received: by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA27829; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:17:18 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:17:18 -0400 Message-ID: <960801181718_375281280@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: awyszkow@smtplink.acer.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Tapes Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Wheew! Apology accepted whole heartedly! :) I'm glad we can be at peace, because we obviously think in similar circuits. The booth idea is great! Hope it can be acomplished! As for the tape, I will get back to you... I'm leaving in seconds to go to the desert(burning man practice). Hope all is well! !tuO ecaeP _JDub, aka Juhstyn aka Justin From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 15:19:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA11835; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:19:43 -0700 Received: from bolero.rahul.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA11827; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:19:39 -0700 Received: from [206.61.226.222] (c222.rahul.net) by bolero.rahul.net with SMTP id AA07995 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:19:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:19:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199608012219.AA07995@bolero.rahul.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: wolfe@rahul.net (Nancy W. Wolfe) Subject: Re: Burning Man Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Is it to early to be all excited about this? Maybe, but I have heard so >much and I just can't stop thinking about it :). (It's all Tony's fault). > >I hope a lot of people are going, because I heard it was amazing :). I >have never been, so I was just wondering if there were few good people >willing to share few good advices on what is the best way to get there >(rent an RV, van, bum rides :P), just little tricks and tips that would >be helpful. > >Thanks and have fun for the rest of the week (and weekend of course). >Hugz, >Branka Everything you need to know is on the Burning Man web page. http://www.sirius.com/~shag/burn If you don't have Netscape I strongly urge you to find someone who does. You will find everything on this page extremely helpful.... I'm excited too!!!! -Nancy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 15:20:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA11893; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:20:06 -0700 Received: from mail-e2b-service.gnn.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA11868; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:20:00 -0700 Received: from 65-57.client.gnn.com. (65-57.client.gnn.com [205.188.65.57]) by mail-e2b-service.gnn.com (8.7.1/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA15488 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:19:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199608012219.SAA15488@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com> X-Mailer: GNNmessenger 1.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Attachments: a:\rational.htm X-Attchment-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=----EDCJACCRANG-32012BEA-DEI----=" Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 15:12:58 From: rinc@gnn.com (Lawrence Rincon) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: raw foodism Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk --=----EDCJACCRANG-32012BEA-DEI----= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" More than a vegetarian, I eat close to 80% raw or living foods (sprouted, nuts,grains,seeds). Ive attached the rational ,but let me say that I feel ore energetic, clear, and vibrant than Ive ever felt before. Meat? I love sushi (Raw eh?) think about it Love, L. --=----EDCJACCRANG-32012BEA-DEI----= Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="rational.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rational.htm" PEhUTUw+IDxIRUFEPiA8VElUTEU+UmF3IEZvb2QgUmF0aW9uYWw8L1RJVExFPiA8L0hFQUQ+DQo8 Qk9EWSBCQUNLR1JPVU5EPSJ3YWxudXRzLmdpZiIgVEVYVD0iI2VmZWZlZiIgTElOSz0iI0VGRUYw MCIgVkxJTks9IiMwMEZGRkYiIEFMSU5LPSIjN0YwMDAwIj4NCg0KPGNlbnRlcj4NCjxIMT5SYXRp b25hbCBmb3IgRWF0aW5nIFJhdyBGb29kIDwvSDE+DQo8SU1HIFNSQz0ibXhfc29mdF8uZ2lmIj4N CjwvY2VudGVyPg0KPEJSPg0KPGxlZnQ+IFdyaXR0ZW46IDEwLzI3Lzk1IDwvbGVmdCA+DQo8cmln aHQ+VXBkYXRlZDogMTAvMjcvOTU8L3JpZ2h0ID4NCjxQPjxzdHJvbmc+DQoNCjxIMz5QZW9wbGUg aGF2ZSBhc2tlZCBtZSB0byBleHBsYWluIHdoeSBJIGRvIG5vdCBjb29rIHRoZSBmb29kIEkgZWF0 LCBhbmQgdGhleSB3YW50IG1lIHRvIGJlIHNjaWVudGlmaWMgLi4uIHNvIGhlcmUgaXMgbXkgcmVz cG9uc2UsIG9uY2UgYW5kIGZvciBhbGwuLi4NCjwvSDM+DQo8Zm9udCBzaXplPSszPjxFPjxJPkU8 L0U+PC9JPjwvZm9udD5hdGluZyByYXcgZm9vZCBpcyBuYXR1cmFsLiBJdHMgdGhlIHdheSBhbmlt YWxzIGVhdCwgYW5kIHRoZSB3YXkgaHVtYW4gYmVpbmdzIGV2b2x2ZWQuIE1hbiBvbmx5IHN0YXJ0 ZWQgdG8gZWF0IGNvb2tlZCBmb29kcyByZWxhdGl2ZWx5IHJlY2VudGx5LCBhbmQgYXQgdGhhdCB0 aW1lLCBpdCB3YXMgcG9zc2libHkgYW4gZXNzZW50aWFsIHN1cnZpdmFsIGFkYXB0YXRpb24uIEl0 IHdhcyBkdXJpbmcgdGhlIGljZSBhZ2UuIEl0IGVuYWJsZWQgbWFuIHRvIGxpdmUgaW4gYXJlYXMg dGhhdCBvdGhlcndpc2Ugd291bGQgbm90IGhhdmUgaGFkIGEgc3VmZmljaWVudCBmb29kIHNvdXJj ZS4gVGhpcyB3ZWF0aGVyLCBhbmQgYWxzbyB0aGUgY29tcGV0aXRpb24gZnJvbSBvdGhlciBhbmlt YWxzIG1pZ2h0IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBmYXRhbCBmb3IgdGhlIHNwZWNpZXMuIEJ1dCB0aGUgbGFzdCBv ZiB0aGUgIGljZSBhZ2UgaGFzIGJlZW4gb3ZlciwgZm9yIG1vcmUgdGhhbiAxMCB0aG91c2FuZCB5 ZWFyczsgYW5kIG1hbiBzdGlsbCBhY3RzIGxpa2UgaGUgaGFzIHRvIGJ1cm4gd2hhdCBoZSBlYXRz LiBCdXQgd2UgcmVhbGx5IGRvbid0IGhhdmUgdG8gYW55bW9yZS4gV2UgZG9uJ3QgaGF2ZSB0byBj b21wcm9taXNlIG91ciBsaWZlIGFueW1vcmUuIEFuZCB0aGlzIHN0b3J5IGlzIGFib3V0IGhvdyBj b29rZWQgZm9vZCBjb21wcm9taXNlcyBvdXIgaGVhbHRoLiBJIG9mZmVyIDQgcG9pbnRzIHRvIGls bHVzdHJhdGUgdGhpczoNCg0KPFVMPg0KPExJPjEuIDxmb250IHNpemU9KzM+PEU+PEk+QjwvRT48 L0k+PC9mb250PnkgY29va2luZyB0aGUgZm9vZCwgd2UgY2hhbmdlIHRoZSB3YXkgdGhlIGZvb2Qg dGFzdGVzLiBXZSBldmVuIFRSWSB0byBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIHdheSB0aGUgZm9vZCB0YXN0ZXMuIEJ1 dCBvdXIgcGVyY2VwdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgdGFzdGVzIGFuZCBzbWVsbHMgb2YgZm9vZCBhcmUgdGhl IGluc3RpbmN0aXZlIHRvb2xzIHRoYXQgaGF2ZSBlbmFibGVkIGFuaW1hbHMgYW5kIG1hbiB0byBr bm93IGV4YWN0bHkgd2hhdCB0byBlYXQuIFJhdyBmb29kLCBpbiBpdHMgbmF0dXJhbCBhbmQgdW5t aXhlZCBzdGF0ZSwgaXMgZ29vZCBmb3IgeW91OyB3aGVuIGl0IHRhc3RlcyBnb29kLiBBbmQgaXQg aXMgbm90IGdvb2QgZm9yIHlvdSB3aGVuIGl0IGRvZXNuJ3QgdGFzdGUgZ29vZC4gQW5pbWFscyBr bm93IGp1c3Qgd2hhdCB0byBlYXQgd2l0aG91dCBoYXZpbmcgdG8gY29uc3VsdCB0aGUgZGVwYXJ0 bWVudCBvZiBhZ3JpY3VsdHVyZSdzIG1pbmltdW0gZGFpbHkgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGFuZCBib29r cyBvZiBjaGVtaWNhbCBjb21wb3NpdGlvbnMgb2YgYWxsIHRoZSBmb29kcy4gVGhleSBlYXQgd2hh dCB0aGV5IHdhbnQuIFRoZXkgZWF0IHdoYXQgdGFzdGVzIGdvb2QuIEJ1dCB3ZSBoYXZlIGNvbWUg dG8gcmVnYXJkIG91ciB0YXN0ZSBidWRzIGFzIHRoZSBlbmVteS4gRXZlciBoZWFyIHRoZSBleHBy ZXNzaW9uLCAiSXQgdGFzdGVzIHNvIGdvb2QgaXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGlsbGVnYWw/IiBXZSBoYXZl IGNvbWUgdG8gZGlzdHJ1c3Qgb3VyIHNlbnNlIG9mIHRhc3RlIGFzIHdlIGFjY2VwdCB0aGUgZmFj dCB0aGF0IGZvb2RzIHRoYXQgdGFzdGUgZ29vZCBhcmUgZmF0dGVuaW5nIGFuZCB1bmhlYWx0aHku IEJ1dCB0aGlzIGlzIG9ubHkgdHJ1ZSB3aGVuIHdlIGNvb2sgdGhlIGZvb2QuIFJhdyBmb29kIHRo YXQgdGFzdGVzIGdvb2QgaXMgaGVhbHRoeS4gV2hlbiB3ZSBoYXZlIGVhdGVuIGVub3VnaCBvZiBh IHJhdyBmb29kLCB3ZSBrbm93IGl0IGJlY2F1c2UgaXQgbm8gbG9uZ2VyIHRhc3RlcyBnb29kLiBS YXcgZm9vZCB1bmRlcmdvZXMgYSB0YXN0ZSBjaGFuZ2UgcGhlbm9tZW5hIHdoZW4gd2Ugbm8gbG9u Z2VyIG5lZWQgaXQuIFRoZSBzYW1lIGZvb2QgdGhhdCB0YXN0ZWQgc28gZ29vZCBvbiB0aGUgbGFz dCBiaXRlIG1heSBub3cgdGFzdGUgYmFkLiBBbmQgd2Ugd2lsbCBubyBsb25nZXIgd2FudCB0byBl YXQgdGhhdCBmb29kLiBDb29raW5nIHRoZSBmb29kIGFsc28gc3RvcHMgdGhlIGFiaWxpdHkgb2Yg Zm9vZCB0byB0cmlnZ2VyIHRoZSB0YXN0ZSBjaGFuZ2Ugc2Vuc2F0aW9uIGluIGFuaW1hbHMuIFdo ZW4gZWF0aW5nIGNvb2tlZCBmb29kLCB0aGUgbWVjaGFuaXNtIHdlIHVzZSB0byBrbm93IHdoZW4g d2UgaGF2ZSBoYWQgZW5vdWdoLCBpcyBhIGZ1bGwgZmVlbGluZyBpbiB0aGUgYmVsbHkuIFdlIGJh c2ljYWxseSBzdHVmZiBvdXJzZWx2ZXMgdW50aWwgd2UgY2Fubm90IGZpdCBhbnkgbW9yZSBpbi4g VGhhdCBmdWxsIGZlZWxpbmcgaXMgcmVhbGx5IGEgZmVlbGluZyB0aGF0IEkgaGF2ZSBjb21lIHRv IHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgYXMgYSBzaWNrIGZlZWxpbmcuIEp1c3QgYXMgdGhlIGh1bmdlciBwYWlucyBv ZiBhIGNvb2tlZCBmb29kIGVhdGVyIGFyZSBub3QgYSBuYXR1cmFsIGh1bmdlciBlaXRoZXIsIGJ1 dCBhIHdpdGhkcmF3YWwgZnJvbSBjb29rZWQgZm9vZHMuIFRoZSBhdmVyYWdlIGZlZWxpbmdzIG9m IGh1bmdlciBhbmQgc2F0aWF0aW9uIG9mIGEgY29va2VkIGZvb2QgZWF0ZXIgYW5kIGEgcmF3IGZv b2QgZWF0ZXIgYXJlIGFzIGRpZmZlcmVudCBhcyBzaWNrIGFuZCBoZWFsdGh5Lg0KDQoNCjxMST4y LiA8Zm9udCBzaXplPSszPjxFPjxJPk48L0U+PC9JPjwvZm9udD5vdCBvbmx5IGRvZXMgY29va2lu ZyB0aGUgZm9vZCBwcmV2ZW50IHVzIGZyb20ga25vdyB3aGF0IHRvIGVhdCwgdGhlIGZvb2Qgd2Ug ZWF0IHRoYXQgaGFzIGJlZW4gY29va2VkLCBjYW4gbm90IGJlIHByb3Blcmx5IGRpZ2VzdGVkLCBh bmQgd2Ugc3VmZmVyIGZvciB0aGF0LiBMZXQgbWUgc3RhcnQgYnkgZ29pbmcgb3ZlciBteSB1bmRl cnN0YW5kaW5nIG9mIHRoZSB3YXkgZm9vZCBpcyBkaWdlc3RlZC4gVGhpcyBpcyBob3cgbm9ybWFs IGRpZ2VzdGlvbiBoYXBwZW5zOiBXZSBjaGV3IG91ciBmb29kIGFuZCB0aGUgc2FsaXZhIG1peGVz IHdpdGggdGhlIGZvb2QgYW5kIHN0YXJ0cyB0byBicmVhayBkb3duIHRoZSBzdGFyY2hlcyBpbnRv IG1vcmUgc2ltcGxlIHN1Z2Fycy4gVGhlIGZvb2QgdHJhdmVscyBkb3duIHRoZSBlc29waGFndXMg aW50byB0aGUgdG9wIG9mIHRoZSBzdG9tYWNoLiBJdCBzdGF5cyBpbiB0aGUgdG9wIG9mIHRoZSBz dG9tYWNoIGZvciBhIHdoaWxlIGJlZm9yZSBpdCBnZXRzIG1peGVkIHdpdGggZW56eW1lcyBpbiB0 aGUgc3RvbWFjaCB0aGF0IHdpbGwgYnJlYWsgZG93biBwcm90ZWlucyBpbnRvIHRoZSBhbWlubyBh Y2lkcyB0aGF0IHRoZSBwcm90ZWlucyBhcmUgbWFkZSBvZi4gVGhpcyBpcyBkb25lIGluIGEgaGln aGx5IGFjaWRpYyBlbnZpcm9ubWVudCB3aXRoIGNobG9yaW5lLiBUaGUgc3RvbWFjaCB3YWxsIGlz IHByb3RlY3RlZCBhZ2FpbnN0IHRoaXMgYWNpZGljIGVudmlyb25tZW50IChhbmQgcHJvdGVpbiBk aWdlc3RpbmcgZW56eW1lcykgdGhyb3VnaCBhIG11Y291cyBsYXllciB3aGljaCBjb25zaXN0cyBv ZiBhIGNoZW1pY2FsIGNvbWJpbmF0aW9uIG9mIHByb3RlaW5zIGFuZCBzdGFyY2hlcy4gV2hpbGUg dGhlIGZvb2QgaXMgd2FpdGluZyBpbiB0aGUgdG9wIG9mIHRoZSBzdG9tYWNoLCBpdCBjb250aW51 ZXMgYmVpbmcgZGlnZXN0ZWQuIFRoZSBQdHlhbGluIGluIHRoZSBzYWxpdmEsIHdoaWNoIGlzIGJy ZWFraW5nIGRvd24gdGhlIHN0YXJjaGVzIGludG8gc3VnYXJzLCBpcyBub3QgdGhlIG9ubHkgY2hl bWljYWwgYWN0aXZpdHkgdGFraW5nIHBsYWNlLiBUaGUgZm9vZCBhbHNvIGNvbWVzIHdpdGggZW56 eW1lcy4gUGxhbnRzIGFuZCBhbmltYWxzIGhhdmUgZW56eW1lcyB0aG91Z2hvdXQgYWxsIG9mIGl0 cyBjZWxscyBhbmQgcGFydHMsIGFuZCB3aGVuIHdlIGNoZXcgdGhlIGZvb2QsIHRoZSBlbnp5bWVz IGFyZSB0aGVyZS4gQW5kIHVzdWFsbHkgdGhlIGV4YWN0IGVuenltZXMgbmVlZGVkIHRvIGJyZWFr IGRvd24gdGhlIGZvb2QuIEJ5IHRoZSB0aW1lIHRoZSBmb29kIGVudGVycyB0aGUgYWNpZCBlbnZp cm9ubWVudCBvZiB0aGUgbWlkZGxlIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIHN0b21hY2gsIGEgbG90IG9mIHRoZSBz dGFyY2hlcywgcHJvdGVpbnMgYW5kIGZhdHMgaGF2ZSBzdGFydGVkIG9uIHRoZWlyIHdheSB0b3dh cmQgZGlnZXN0aW9uLiBJbiB0aGUgbWlkZGxlIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIHN0b21hY2gsIFBlcHNpbiBh bmQgVHlwc2luIGNvbnRpbnVlIHRvIGJyZWFrIGRvd24gdGhlIHByb3RlaW5zIGludG8gYW1pbm8g YWNpZHMuIExhdGVyIHRoZSBmb29kIGNvbnRpbnVlcyBpbnRvIHRoZSBpbnRlc3RpbmVzLiBBcyB0 aGUgZm9vZCBlbnRlcnMgdGhlIGludGVzdGluZXMgdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgZmlyc3QgcGFydCBjYWxs ZWQgdGhlIER1b2RlbnVtLCB0aGUgZm9vZCBpcyBqdWRnZWQgZm9yIGl0cyBuZWVkIGZvciBlbnp5 bWVzLiBJdCBtdXN0IGJlIGRldGVybWluZWQ6IHdoYXQgbXVzdCBiZSBpbmZ1c2VkIGludG8gdGhl IGludGVzdGluZXMgdG8gY29tcGxldGUgdGhlIGRpZ2VzdGl2ZSBwcm9jZXNzIGZvciB0aGlzIGZv b2QuIEJpbGUgZnJvbSB0aGUgZ2FsbCBibGFkZGVyLCB3aGljaCBpcyBwYXJ0aWFsbHkgbWFkZSBm cm9tIHRoZSByZW1haW5zIG9mIGRlYWQgcmVkIGJsb29kIGNlbGxzIHNlcnZlIGFzIGFuIGVtdWxz aWZ5aW5nIGFnZW50IHRvIHByb3ZpZGUgYSBtZWRpdW0sIGJhc2UgYW5kIG1lY2hhbmlzbSBmb3Ig dGhlIGVuenltZXMgdG8gZGlnZXN0IHRoZSBmb29kLiBUaGUgcGFuY3JlYXMgd2lsbCBzZW5kIGlu IG1vcmUgZW56eW1lcyBhcyBuZWVkZWQgdG8gZGlnZXN0IHRoZSByZW1haW5pbmcgc3RhcmNoLCBw cm90ZWlucyBhbmQgZXNwZWNpYWxseSBsaXBpZHMoZmF0cyksIGJlY2F1c2UgbW9zdCBvZiB0aGUg bGlwaWQgY2F0YWJvbGlzbSB0YWtlcyBwbGFjZSBoZXJlLiBBdCB0aGlzIHBvaW50LCBpZiB0aGUg Zm9vZCB3YXMgY29va2VkLCB0aGVuIHRoZSBlbnp5bWVzIHdlcmUgcmVuZGVyZWQgaW5hY3RpdmUs IGFuZCB0aGUgcHJlZGlnZXN0aW9uIGluIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSBzdG9tYWNoIHdh cyBtaW5pbWFsIGV4Y2VwdCBmb3Igd2hhdCB0aGUgc2FsaXZhIGRpZCwgYW5kIGJ5IHRoaXMgdGlt ZSwgdGhlIGZhdHMgaGF2ZSBub3QgZXZlbiBzdGFydGVkIHRvIGJlIGRpZ2VzdGVkLiBTbyB0aGUg cGFuY3JlYXMgd2lsbCBiZSBoYXJkIHByZXNzZWQgdG8gc3VwcGx5IGFsbCB0aGUgbmVlZGVkIGVu enltZXMuIEl0IGNvdWxkbid0IHBvc3NpYmxlIG1ha2UgYWxsIHRoZSBlbnp5bWVzIHRoZXJlIGlu IHRoZSBwYW5jcmVhcywgc28gaXQgbGVlY2hlcyBlbnp5bWVzIGZyb20gYWxsIG92ZXIgdGhlIGJv ZHksIHRvIHNhdGlzZnkgdGhlIGRlbWFuZHMgb2YgdGhlIGRpZ2VzdGl2ZSBzeXN0ZW0uIEFuZCB0 aGlzIGlzIGhvdyB0aGUgcGFuY3JlYXMgZ2V0cyB0aGUgZW56eW1lczoNCjxQPg0KPGZvbnQgc2l6 ZT0rMz48RT48ST5XPC9FPjwvST48L2ZvbnQ+aGl0ZSBibG9vZCBjZWxscyB0cmF2ZWwgdGhyb3Vn aG91dCB0aGUgYm9keSBpbiB0aGUgY2lyY3VsYXRvcnkgc3lzdGVtcyBvZiB0aGUgYmxvb2QgYW5k IHRoZSBseW1waC4gVGhleSBkaWdlc3QgcGFydGljbGVzIGFuZCBsaXZlIGJhY3RlcmlhIHdpdGgg ZW56eW1lcyB0aGF0IGJyZWFrZG93biB0aGUgZGlmZmVyZW50IG1vbGVjdWxlcyBvZiBsaWZlIGxp a2UgcHJvdGVpbnMsIGZhdHMgYW5kIGNhcmJvaHlkcmF0ZXMuIFRoZSBzYW1lIGVuenltZXMgdGhh dCBhcmUgdXNlZCB0byBkaWdlc3QgZm9vZCBpbiB0aGUgZGlnZXN0aXZlIHN5c3RlbSBhcmUgdGhl IHNhbWUgZW56eW1lcyB0aGF0IGFyZSB1c2VkIHRvIGJyZWFrZG93biBjZWxscyB0aGF0IGNhbid0 IGJlIHJlcGFpcmVkLCBhcyB3ZWxsIGFzIHRoZSBiYWN0ZXJpYSBkZWVtZWQgZm9yZWlnbiBtYXR0 ZXIuIFdoaXRlIGJsb29kIGNlbGxzIGFsc28gZnVuY3Rpb24gdG8gdHJhbnNwb3J0IGVuenltZXMg YXJvdW5kIHRoZSBib2R5LCBzaW5jZSB0aGV5IGhhdmUgc3VjaCBsYXJnZSBzdG9yYWdlLiBTb21l dGltZXMsIGFuIGFyZWEgb2YgdGhlIGJvZHkgbmVlZHMgZXh0cmEgZW56eW1lcyB0byBicmVhayBk b3duIGNlbGxzIHRoYXQgY2FuJ3QgYmUgcmVwYWlyZWQuIFVzdWFsbHkgdGhvdWdoLCBwcmVjZWRl bmNlIGlzIHRha2VuIGJ5IHRoZSBkZW1hbmRzIG9mIHRoZSBkaWdlc3RpdmUgc3lzdGVtLiBJZiB0 aGUgZGlnZXN0aXZlIHN5c3RlbSBuZWVkcyBlbnp5bWVzLCBvdGhlciBwYXJ0cyBvZiB0aGUgYm9k eSBtYXkgaGF2ZSB0byB3YWl0IHRpbGwgbXVjaCBsYXRlciB0byBwcm9jZXNzIHRoZSBkZWFkIGNl bGxzIGFuZCB3YXN0ZXMuIEVhdGluZyBjb29rZWQgZm9vZCBkZW1hbmRzIG1vcmUgZW56eW1lczsg ZW56eW1lcyB0aGF0IGNvdWxkIGJlIHVzZWQgYXMgbmVlZGVkIGFsbCBvdmVyIHRoZSBib2R5LiBX aGVuIHRoZSBib2R5IGNhbm5vdCBicmVhayBkb3duIGEgY2VsbCB0aGF0IGlzIG5vdCBoZWFsdGh5 IGFuZCBjYW5ub3QgYmUgcmVwYWlyZWQsIGl0IG11c3QgZ3VhcmQgdGhlIHJlc3Qgb2YgdGhlIGhl YWx0aHkgYm9keSBhZ2FpbnN0IHdoYXQgaGFzIGJlY29tZSBhIHRveGljIHRocmVhdC4gU28gaXQg cXVhcmFudGluZXMgdGhlIGFyZWEuIEFzIHRoZSBiYWNrbG9nIGJ1aWxkcywgaXQgbW92ZXMgdGhl IHRveGljIHBhcnRzIGludG8gb25lIGFyZWEuIEFmdGVyIGEgd2hpbGUsIHRoaXMgYXJlYSBtYXkg YmUgb2JzZXJ2ZWQgYXMgYSB0dW1vci4gSXMgaXQgYSBjb21tb24gbWlzY29uY2VwdGlvbiB0byB0 aGluayBvZiBjYW5jZXIgYXMgYSBkaXNlYXNlLCBCZWNhdXNlIGl0IGlzIHJlYWxseSB0aGUgb3Ro ZXIgd2F5IGFyb3VuZC4gSWYgdGhlIGJvZHkgd2Fzbid0IGFibGUgdG8gc2VncmVnYXRlIHRoZSB0 b3hpYyBtYXNzIGluIHN1Y2ggYW4gZWZmaWNpZW50IG1hbm5lciwgdGhlIHBlcnNvbiB3b3VsZCBo YXZlIGRpZWQgbG9uZyBhZ28uIENhbmNlciBpcyByZWFsbHkgYSBsaWZlIHNhdmluZyBhbmQgcHJv bG9uZ2luZyBzdXJ2aXZhbCBtZWNoYW5pc20uDQo8UD4NCjxmb250IHNpemU9KzM+PEU+PEk+Qzwv RT48L0k+PC9mb250PmFuY2VyIG1heSBhbHNvIHNlZW0gdG8gYmUgY2F1c2VkIGFzIGEgZGlyZWN0 IHJlc3VsdCBvZiBzdW4gZXhwb3N1cmUsIGJlY2F1c2UgdGhlIHN1biB3aWxsIHRlbmQgdG8gZGFt YWdlIGNlbGxzIGFuZCBmdXJ0aGVyIGFkZCB0byB0aGUgYmFja2xvZy4gQnV0IHRoaXMgYmFja2xv ZyB3b3VsZCBub3QgYmUgYSBwcm9ibGVtIGlmIHRoZSBlbnp5bWVzIHdlcmUgZnJlZSB0byBkbyB0 aGVpciB3b3JrLiBUaGVyZSBhcmUgZW56eW1lcyB0aGF0IGNvbnRpbnVhbGx5IHRyYXZlcnNlIHRo ZSBETkEgdG8gY2hlY2sgZm9yIGFibm9ybWFsaXRpZXMgYW5kIG11dGF0aW9ucy4gV2hlbiBzdWNo IGEgc2l0dWF0aW9uIGlzIG9ic2VydmVkLCB0aGUgY2VsbCBpcyBtYXJrZWQgZm9yIHJlcGFpciwg YW5kIGVuenltZXMgYXJlIGVtcGxveWVkIHRvIGNvcnJlY3QgdGhlIGluY29uc2lzdGVuY3kuIElm IHRoZSBjZWxsIGNhbm5vdCBiZSByZXBhaXJlZCwgaXQgaXMgbWFya2VkIGZvciByZS1hc3NpbWls YXRpb247IHdoZXJlIGVuenltZXMgYXJlIG5lZWRlZCB0byBjYXRhYm9saXplIGFuZCBkaWdlc3Qg aXQsIGJyZWFraW5nIGl0IGRvd24gaW50byBpdHMgZnVuZGFtZW50YWwgbW9sZWN1bGVzLCB3aGlj aCBtYXkgc2VydmUgYXMgYnVpbGRpbmcgYmxvY2tzIGFuZCBlbmVyZ3kgaW4gb3RoZXIgYXJlYXMg b2YgdGhlIGJvZHkuIA0KPFA+DQooPGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0rMz48RT48ST5JPC9FPjwvST48L2ZvbnQ+ IHdpbGwgZXhwb3VuZCBvbiB0aGlzLiBQZW9wbGUgbm90aWNlIHRoYXQgZXhwb3N1cmUgdG8gdGhl IHN1biBjYW4gZGFtYWdlIHRoZSBza2luIGFuZCByZXN0IG9mIHRoZSBib2R5LiBUaGF0IG1heSBi ZSB0cnVlLCBidXQgdGhlIHN1biBpcyBvbmUgb2YgdGhlIG1vc3Qgdml0YWwgYW5kIGZ1bmRhbWVu dGFsIG51dHJpZW50cyB0aGF0IGZlZWQgbGlmZS4gQWxvbmcgd2l0aCBhaXIsIGFuZCB3YXRlciwg YW5kIHNvaWwsIHRoZSBzdW4gY29tcGxldGVzIHRoZSBlc3NlbnRpYWwgcmVzb3VyY2Ugb2YgbGlm ZSBnZW5lcmF0aW5nIGVuZXJneS4gSXQgY2FuIGFwcGVhciB0aGF0IHRoZSBzdW4gbWF5IGRhbWFn ZSB0aGUgYm9keS4gVGhlIHVsdHJhdmlvbGV0IHJheXMgb2YgdGhlIHN1biBtYXkgbXV0YXRlIGEg c3RyYW5kIG9mIEROQSB3aXRoaW4gYSBjaHJvbW9zb21lIGluIGEgcmFuZG9tIGNlbGwuIEhvd2V2 ZXIgYW5pbWFscyB1c3VhbGx5IGhhdmUgbmF0dXJhbCBwcm90ZWN0aW9uIGFuZCBoZWFsaW5nIGZv ciBzdWNoIG9jY3VycmVuY2VzLiANCjxQPg0KPC9VTD4NCg0KDQpUbyByZWNhcCwgdGhlIGZpcnN0 IHBvaW50IEkgbWFkZSB3YXMgdGhhdCB0aGUgaW5zdGluY3RpdmUgZGVzaXJlcyBvZiBhbmltYWxz IGZvciBnb29kIHRhc3RpbmcgZm9vZCBhcmUgdGh3YXJ0ZWQgYnkgY29va2luZyBpdC4gVGhlIHNl Y29uZCBwb2ludCB1cCB0aWxsIGhvdyBiZWVuIHRvIHNob3cgaG93IGVzc2VudGlhbCB0aGUgZW56 eW1lcyBpbiB0aGUgZm9vZCBhcmUgdG8gZGlnZXN0aW9uIGFuZCB3aGF0IGhhcHBlbnMgaWYgdGhl eSBhcmUgbm90IHRoZXJlLiAoQ29va2VkIGZvb2QgZG9lcyBub3QgaGF2ZSB0aGVzZSBlbnp5bWVz LCBhbmQgdGhlIGJvZHkgdHJpZXMgdG8gY29tcGVuc2F0ZSBieSBjb21wcm9taXNpbmcgaXRzIGhl YWxpbmcgcG93ZXJzLikgQnV0IGNvb2tpbmcgdGhlIGZvb2QgZG9lcyBtb3JlIHRoYW4ganVzdCBp bW1vYmlsaXplIHRoZSBlbnp5bWVzLCB3aGljaCBicmluZyB1cyB0byB0aGUgdGhpcmQgcG9pbnQu IA0KDQo8VUw+DQo8TEk+My4gPGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0rMz48RT48ST5DPC9FPjwvST48L2ZvbnQ+b29r aW5nIGZvb2QgY3JlYXRlcyBuZXcgc3Vic3RhbmNlcyB0aGF0IG9yZGluYXJpbHkgYXJlIG5vdCBm b3VuZCBpbiBuYXR1cmUuIFRvIGlsbHVzdHJhdGUgaG93IGVub3Jtb3VzIHRoaXMgcHJvYmxlbSBj YW4gYmUsIHRoaW5nIG9mIGEgc2ltcGxlIGNvbnRyb2xsZWQgY2hlbWljYWwgcmVhY3Rpb24uIFRh a2UgYSBmbGFzayBvciBiZWFrZXIgd2l0aCBhIHNvbHZlbnQgbGlrZSB3YXRlciBhbmQgYWRkIHR3 byBkaWZmZXJlbnQgc29sdXRpb25zIG9mIG1vbGVjdWxlcy4gVGhleSBjYW4gYmUgbWFueSBkaWZm ZXJlbnQgYnlwcm9kdWN0cyBzeW50aGVzaXplZCBieSB1c2luZyByZWxhdGl2ZWx5IHNpbXBsZSBp bmdyZWRpZW50cy4gQnV0IGZvb2QgaXMgY29tcG9zZWQgb2YgYSB2ZXJ5IHdpZGUgdmFyaWV0eSBv ZiBkaWZmZXJlbnQgdHlwZXMgb2YgbW9sZWN1bGVzIGFuZCB0aGUgbnVtYmVyIG9mIGRpZmZlcmVu dCBieXByb2R1Y3RzIHByb2R1Y2VkIGluIHN1Y2ggYSBwcm9jZXNzIHdpbGwgZW5vcm1vdXMuIE1h bnkgb2YgdGhlc2UgbmV3IHN1YnN0YW5jZXMgYXJlIG5vdCBicm9rZW4gZG93biBvciBmaWx0ZXJl ZCBvdXQgaW4gdGhlIGRpZ2VzdGl2ZSBwcm9jZXNzLCBhIHByb2Nlc3Mgd2hpY2ggZXZvbHZlZCBi ZWZvcmUgdGhlc2Ugc3Vic3RhbmNlcyBldmVyIHNob3dlZCB0aGVpciBwcmVzZW5jZSBvbiBlYXJ0 aC4gQW5kIHRoZSBib2R5IHJlYWN0cyB0byB0aGVzZSBwYXJ0aWNsZXMgYXMgaXQgd291bGQgYW55 IG90aGVyIGZvcmVpZ24gYm9keS4gV2hpdGUgYmxvb2QgY2VsbHMgYXJlIGRpc3BhdGNoZWQgdG8g ZGlnZXN0IGFuZCBwcm9jZXNzIHRoaXMgc3RyYW5nZSBpbnRydWRlci4gRnVydGhlciB0YXhpbmcg dGhlIGJvZHkncyByZXNvdXJjZSBvZiB3aGl0ZSBibG9vZCBjZWxscyBhbmQgZW56eW1lcy4gQWZ0 ZXIgYSBjb29rZWQgZm9vZCBtZWFsLCBlbGV2YXRlZCB3aGl0ZSBjZWxsIGFjdGl2aXR5IGNhbiBi ZSBvYnNlcnZlZCwgYW5kIG1hbnkgdGltZXMgYSBtZWFzdXJhYmxlIGluY3JlYXNlIGluIGJvZHkg dGVtcGVyYXR1cmUuDQo8TEk+NC4gPGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0rMz48RT48ST5UPC9FPjwvST48L2ZvbnQ+ aGUgZm91cnRoIHBvaW50IEkgc2F2ZWQgZm9yIGxhc3QgYmVjYXVzZSB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyBzY2ll bnRpZmljIHJhdGlvbmFsIHRoYXQgSSBjYW4gcHJvcG9zZSBmb3IgIHRoaXMgaHlwb3RoZXNpcy4g SSBtYWludGFpbiB0aGF0IHBsYW50cyBhcmUgYWxpdmUuIEFuZCB3aGVuIHdlIGVhdCB0aGVtLCB3 ZSBhc3NpbWlsYXRlIHRoZWlyIGxpZmUuIEFuZCBmdXJ0aGVybW9yZSwgdGhhdCBjb29raW5nIHRo ZSBwbGFudCBraWxscyB0aGUgcGxhbnQgYW5kIHRoZSBsaWZlIGZvcmNlIGluIGl0LiBUaGVyZSBp cyBtb3JlIGluIHRoZSBmb29kIHdlIGVhdCB0aGFuIGp1c3QgdGhlIG51dHJpZW50cyB0aGF0IGNh biBiZSBjaGVtaWNhbGx5IGVsdWNpZGF0ZWQuIEp1c3QgYXMgdGhlcmUgaXMgbGlmZSBpbiB0aGUg d2F0ZXIgdGhhdCB3ZSBkcmluayBhbmQgc3dpbSBpbiwgd2hpY2ggaXMgbWlzc2luZyB3aGVuIGl0 IGlzIGRpc3RpbGxlZC4gSnVzdCBhcyB0aGVyZSBpcyBlc3NlbnRpYWwgbGlmZSB0aGF0IHdlIGFi c29yYiBmcm9tIHRoZSBhaXIgd2UgYnJlYXRoLCBpbiBhZGRpdGlvbiB0byB0aGUgZXNzZW50aWFs IG94eWdlbi4gVGhlcmUgaXMgbW9yZSBlc3NlbnRpYWwgbGlmZSBpbiB0aGUgZm9vZCB3ZSBlYXQs IHRoYW4gd2hhdCBjYW4gYmUgcmVhc3NlbWJsZWQgZnJvbSB0aGUgc2NpZW50aWZpY2FsbHkgYW5h bHl6ZWQgbnV0cmllbnQgY29tcG9uZW50cy4NCg0KPC9VTD4NCg0KPGZvbnQgc2l6ZT0rMz48RT48 ST5JPC9FPjwvST48L2ZvbnQ+biB0aGUgZmluYWwgYW5hbHlzaXMsIEkgbWF5IGJlIHdyb25nIHdp dGggZXZlcnl0aGluZyBJIGhhdmUgc2FpZC4gRXZlcnkgc2NpZW50aWZpYyBmYWN0IGFuZCByYXRp b25hbCBtYXkgYmUgaW5hY2N1cmF0ZSwgbWlzY29uc3RydWVkLCBhbmQgdW5mYWl0aGZ1bGx5IG1h bmlwdWxhdGVkLiBJIHdpbGwgYWRtaXQgdG8gdGhhdCBwb3NzaWJpbGl0eS4gSSBvbmx5IGVudW1l cmF0ZWQgdGhlbSBiZWNhdXNlIEkgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGFza2VkLiBUaGVyZSBpcyBvbmUgdHJ1dGgg dGhhdCBJIGtub3cuIEl0IGlzIHNvIGZ1bmRhbWVudGFsIHRoYXQgSSBkb24ndCBoYXZlIHRvIGJl bGlldmUgaXQsIEkgc2VlIGl0IGFzIGNsZWFybHkgYXMgLi4uIHdlbGwganVzdCByZWFsIGNsZWFy bHksIE9LPyBBbmQgdGhpcyBpcyBpdDogSSBoYXZlIHRyaWVkIGl0LCBJIGhhdmUgZWF0ZW4gcmF3 IGZvb2QgZm9yIHllYXJzLiBJIGtub3cgaG93IEkgZmVlbCwgYW5kIEkgcmVtZW1iZXIgaG93IEkg ZmVsdC4gVGhlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2UgaXMgbW9yZSB0aGFuIHNpY2sgb3IgaGVhbHRoeS4gQW5kIGl0 IGNhbid0IHBvc3NpYmx5IGJlIGRlc2NyaWJlZCB0byBzb21lb25lIHdobyBoYXNuJ3QgdHJpZWQg aXQuIEl0IGlzIGhhcmRlciB0aGFuIGRlc2NyaWJpbmcgdGhlIHBzeWNob2RlbGljIGV4cGVyaWVu Y2UgdG8gc29tZW9uZSB3aG8gaGFzbid0IGV4cGVyaWVuY2VkIGl0LiBJdCBpcyB0aGUgZGlmZmVy ZW5jZSBiZXR3ZWVuIGEgc2NoZW1hdGljIGRyYXdpbmcgYW5kIGEgY29sb3IgcGljdHVyZSBhbmQg YSAzZC1tb2RlbCBhbmQgYSBsaXZlIHBlcnNvbi4gSXQgaXMgYSBxdWFudHVtIGxlYXAgaW4gaGVh bHRoIGFuZCBhd2FyZW5lc3MuIEl0IGFuc3dlcnMgcXVlc3Rpb25zIHRoYW4gcnVuIHRoZSBnYW11 dCBmcm9tLCAiV2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgbWVhbmluZyBvZiBsaWZlPyIgdG8gIlNob3VsZCBJIG1ha2Ug YSByaWdodCB0dXJuIGhlcmU/IiBNeSBuZXh0IGFydGljbGUgcmVhbGx5IHNob3VsZCBlbGFib3Jh dGUgb24gdGhpcy4gVGhhdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBuaWNlLiBJdCB3b3VsZCBhbHNvIGJlIG5pY2UgdG8g ZW5kIHRoaXMgYXJ0aWNsZSByaWdodCBoZXJlLg0KPFA+PC9zdHJvbmc+DQo8aHIgc2l6ZT0zPg0K DQoNCjxQPg0KUGxlYXNlIGRvbid0IGZvcmdldCB0byBzaWduIG15IGd1ZXN0IGJvb2sNCjxBIEhS RUY9InNpZ25ib29rLmh0bWwiPjxJTUcgU1JDPSJndWVzdC5naWYiIEFMSUdOPSJCT1RUT00iPjwv QT4gd2hlbiB5b3UgbGVhdmUhDQo8UD4NCg0KPEEgSFJFRj0iaHR0cDpqcmVsbGlzLmh0bWwiPjxJ TUcgU1JDPSJob21lNi5naWYiDQpBTElHTj0iYm90dG9tIiBBTFQ9IlRvIGpyZWxsaXMncyBIb21l UGFnZSI+PC9hPiBnbyB0byBqcmVsbGlzIGhvbWVwYWdlDQoNCjwvQk9EWT4gPC9IVE1MPg0KDQoN Cg0K --=----EDCJACCRANG-32012BEA-DEI----=-- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 15:42:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA13834; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:42:05 -0700 Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA13822; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 15:42:01 -0700 From: Juhstyn@aol.com Received: by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA25816 for SFRaves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:44:06 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:44:06 -0400 Message-ID: <960801184406_375301407@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: SFRaves@hyperreal.com Subject: see ya! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, I'm off to the Colorado River near Nevada to try some desert air! see y'all monday! -Juhstyn From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 16:06:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA15789; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:06:20 -0700 Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA15772; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:06:16 -0700 Received: from [157.22.1.251] (lr8e1-port1.zocalo.net [157.22.1.251]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA12061; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:06:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: wayne@mail.domain.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199608012128.OAA06928@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:04:47 -0700 To: Troy Sheets , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Vince and Wayne Subject: Re: SFRaves Burning Camp? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 2:28 PM -0700 8/1/96, Troy Sheets wrote: >I don't know if I want to face the harsh life of Playa living with only >our 6 person rented minivan crew. Anyone itnerested in loosely organizing >a SFR burning camp for all us stragglers who are not already in a camp? > >-troy > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me >tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only >http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content >troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within The VW camp (Vince and Wayne) :-) will be getting there Wednesday afternoon/evening to stake out our little place in paradise... I assume at this point that we will once again be located exactly between the main camp and the rave camp, just like last year. We would *love* to have our little oasis on the playa to be at least as large as it was last year where we had 7+ RV's, the 22' VMAR rig, and an assortment of cars and other vehicles that comprised our town... members included Cyborganics, Organics, F&F people, SFR people, etc.... there were at least 50 of us... and I am hoping to also get the Syntonics and Brits (Theta) also co-located with us. More info as the date approaches! -w ____________________________________________________________________________ Wayne D. Correia TEL: +1.415.826.6000 www.club.net FAX: +1.415.826.6100 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 16:12:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA16375; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:12:26 -0700 Received: from elaine13.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA16368; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:12:23 -0700 Received: (from gonzo@localhost) by elaine13.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA07914; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:12:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:12:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Mark Logan To: Troy Sheets cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: SFRaves Burning Camp? In-Reply-To: <199608012128.OAA06928@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I was just thinking that meself. Count me in. We could circle the wagons, as it were, and throw some tarps/parachutes/tanned hides across the courtyard--just like last year. Anyone got a trampoline? Think theme! jon On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Troy Sheets wrote: > > I don't know if I want to face the harsh life of Playa living with only > our 6 person rented minivan crew. Anyone itnerested in loosely organizing > a SFR burning camp for all us stragglers who are not already in a camp? > > -troy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me > tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only > http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content > troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 16:18:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA16849; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:18:34 -0700 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA16840; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:18:31 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA16370 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:18:29 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby.vip.best.com (tgrigsby.vip.best.com [205.149.169.221]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA21091 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:16:24 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:16:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199608012316.QAA21091@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: RE: Stats on meat and veggies..long X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk First, I want to say that the meat industry statistics were very interesting. I'd read something similar before, but some of the things in this struck me as strange. Now I take a couple of humorous jabs, so don't anyone get mad, but... * Sacred food of Native Americans: Corn Yeah, so? The cross is a sacred symbol, but industrial punks across the world will hardly be likely to give up their earrings anytime soon... * A driving force behind the destruction of the tropical rainforests: American meat habit Mmm. I've heard a lot of reasons for the demise of the rain forests, but the primary reason, as I understand it, is so land-starved farmers will have someplace to put crops. * Amount of meat imported anually by U.S. from Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras and Panama: Less than the average American housecat Huh? Do we import housecats from these countries or do housecats import meat from these countries? Or do we import meat that totals less than the muscle on one housecat? And who the heck out there is eating housecats? And what about carcats? Or tentcats? Or dirtcats? Don't they count? * Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical rainforests and related habitats: 1000/year It's my understanding that scientists can't identify and cross reference that many new species in a year. Horrifying statistic, given that number, but hardly provable. * Length of time world's petroleum reserves would last if all human beings ate meat-centered diet: 13 years * Length of time world's petroleum reserves would last if all human beings ate vegetarian diet: 260 years More strange statistics. I say we revoke those cows' driver's licenses *immediately*! Where exactly does all the petrol go, and how is it that the cows are using 20 times the petroleum that the world's cars, buses, trains, plastics industry, chemical industry, etc., are using combined? Don't they know *anything* about public transportation? * Percentage of raw materials consumed in U.S. for all purposes presently consumed to produce current meat-centered diet: 33 We expend a third of ALL our raw materials on cows? Our wood, metals, water, etc.? Since the population of cows in this country is lower than one third of the human population, I have to assume that these cows are wearing better clothes, driving better cars, living in better houses, typing on better computers, eating better food -- well, that actually might be true -- in short, living better lives than we do. * Where feedlot waste often ends up: In our water I thought that water tasted funny... * Milk Producer's revised campaign slogan: "Milk has something for everybody." What happened to "Got Milk?" I think we're dating these statistics here. * Part of female chicken's body that produces eggs: Ovaries Whew! That's a relief! My cousin told me the egg fairy came around every night, grabbed the poor sleeping chickens, and shoved the eggs up into them! After hearing this latest development in the "Where Do Eggs Come From" controversy, I for one will sleep better tonight! * Foods males in U.S. are conditioned to think of as "manly": Animal products Depends on where you're from. I knew a guy that claimed to have disassembled and consumed most of the parts of a VW Bug. What a man! * The dye used for many years by the USDA for many years to stamp meats "Choice", "Prime", or "U.S. No. 1 USDA": Violet dye No. 1 * Current status of Violet Dye No. 1: Banned as proven carcinogen Do they still use it? Probably not. M&M's used to be made with red dye #4, but as soon as it was banned, they stopped. * McDonald's clown, Ronald McDonald, doesn't tell children: Hamburgers are ground up cows who've had their throats slit by machetes or their brains bashed in by sledgehammers. Someone forgot electro-shock and pistol. Sledgehammers aren't used anymore and the machete, or more accurately the cleaver, used to slit their throats is done after they're dead. Y'know, lest anyone think I'm just taking a silly-minded swing at vegans in general, let me just say that these statistics, at least the useful, non-inflammatory ones, are good to know and helpful in possibly making a decision to change one's diet. I agree that people eat far too much meat, and I'm already trying to change the things I buy at the grocery store in order to taper off my meat consumption. S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 16:20:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA17026; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:20:33 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA17013; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:20:29 -0700 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA04162 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.79.2.38] ([206.79.2.38]) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA23497 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:16:28 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:18:39 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: live105 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ...just played prodigy and leftfield back to back... "roland with his eyes opened?" "roland at the gates of techno!" "roland and rick stewart... in the dance section at rasputin's." lost in thought, -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | | | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | | | | avec le Headlands Band website | | et dj StarEyes aussi! | | | | Michal Migurski | | (408) 264-6604 | | | |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| | | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 16:20:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA17061; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:20:39 -0700 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA17038; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:20:34 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA16572 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:20:29 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby.vip.best.com (tgrigsby.vip.best.com [205.149.169.221]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA21154 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:16:30 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:16:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199608012316.QAA21154@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Respect? X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >plant in some former central american rainforest so fat white trash hicks ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Y'know, you folx might want to watch this kinda of sentiment. It speaks of ignorance, hatred, and discrimination. This kind of comment, along with the vast assortment of references to inbreeding, stupidity, and slovenliness in regards to people from our southern states, is offensive to some. You'd be surprised how many people on this list are from the South and proud. Now you're probably sitting there thinking one of two things: 1. How can you be proud when there's still a lot of racism in the South? 2. Then why is it that every ignorant, gap-toothed weirdo on a television talk show seems to speak with a southern accent? First, racism is everywhere in this country. I'm not going to try to defend anyone that even so much as tells racist jokes, but don't put off racism on the South as though that's it's last bastion. Second, there are just as many ignorant, gap-toothed weirdos here as there are there. I won't name names, but there are some right in our own scene that astound me with their strange local form of ignorance and arrogance. A Southern accent does not make you a bad person. S -- Tallahassee, FL. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 16:51:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA20790; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:51:28 -0700 Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA20783; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:51:24 -0700 Received: from 13474597.mcoe.k12.ca.us (silver.salinas.net [205.179.129.141]) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA11799 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:03:25 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:03:25 -0700 Message-Id: <199608012303.QAA11799@lettuce.salinas.net> X-Sender: silver@salinas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" Subject: (NRR) I Deserve a Break Today!!! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ok, ok,ok....I give(ugh)up!!!!! I promise not to eat anything meat or vegetables..Did you know that if you amplify the sound of a vegetable cell a 100,000 times, being cut in half by a knife or sharp instrument...it screams!!! Put that in your next nightmare.....and by the way, let's put the (NRR) before all these threads.. ... eating only certified 100% all dirt products....SpinSilver From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 16:59:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA21433; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:59:44 -0700 Received: from psiwa5.Syntex.Com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA21427; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:59:42 -0700 Received: (from marisaw@localhost) by psiwa5.Syntex.Com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA13480 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:56:55 -0700 From: Marisa Giancarla Message-Id: <199608012356.QAA13480@psiwa5.Syntex.Com> Subject: Re: (NRR) I Deserve a Break Today!!! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfraves) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:56:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199608012303.QAA11799@lettuce.salinas.net> from "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" at Aug 1, 96 04:03:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 148 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > ... eating only certified 100% all dirt products....SpinSilver > But what about all the poor microbes living in that dirt? Marisa From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:03:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA21791; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:03:46 -0700 Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA21783; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:03:35 -0700 Received: from 13474597.mcoe.k12.ca.us (silver.salinas.net [205.179.129.141]) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA11831; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:15:27 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 16:15:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199608012315.QAA11831@lettuce.salinas.net> X-Sender: silver@salinas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: aforrest@metro.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" Subject: Re: Stats on meat and veggies..long Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 11:30 AM 8/1/96 -0700, Knucklehead wrote: >I told my self I wasn't going to send this due to bandwidth but too many >people are asking about stats so read this..These are facts!! > > * Human population of United States: 243,000,000 > * Number of Human beings who could be fed by the grain and soybeans eaten > by U. S. livestock: 1,300,000,000 > * Sacred food of Native Americans: Corn > * Percentage of corn grown in United States eaten by human beings: 20 > * Percentage of corn grown in United States eaten by livestock: 80 > * Percentage of oats grown in United States eaten by livestock: 95 > * Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90 > * Percentage of carbohydrate wasted by cycling grain through livestock:99 > * Percentage of dietary fiber wasted by cycling grain through > livestock:100 > * How frequently a child dies of starvation: Every 2 seconds > * Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on 1 acre of land: 20,000 > * Pounds of beef that can be produced on 1 acre of land: 165 > * Percentage of U.S. agricultural land used to produce beef: 56 > * Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce 1 pound of feedlot beef: > 16 > * Pounds of protein fed to chickens to produce 1 pound of protein as > chicken flesh: 5 pounds > * Pounds of protein fed to hogs to produce 1 pound of protein as hog > flesh: 7.5 pounds > * Number of children who starve to death every day: 40,000 > * Number of pure vegetarians who can be fed on the amount of land needed > to feed 1 person consuming meat-based diet: 20 > * Number of people who will starve to death this year: 60,000,000 > * Number of people who could be adequately fed by the grain saved if > Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 60,000,000 > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * Historic cause of demise of many great civilizations: Topsoil depletion > * Percentage of original U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75 > * Amount of U.S. cropland lost each year to soil erosion: 4,000,000 acres > (size of Connecticut) > * Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly associated with livestock > raising: 85 > * Number of acres of U.S. forest whcih have been cleared to create > cropland to produce a meat-centered diet: 260,000,000 > * How often an acre of U.S. trees disappears: Every 8 seconds > * Amount of trees spared per year by each individual who switches to a > pure vegetarian diet: 1 acre > * A driving force behind the destruction of the tropical rainforests: > American meat habit > * Amount of meat imported anually by U.S. from Costa Rica, El Salvador, > Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras and Panama: Less than the average > American housecat > * Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical > rainforests and related habitats: 1000/year > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * User of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the United > States: Livestock production > * Quantity of water used in the production of the average cow sufficient > to: float a destroyer > * Water needed to produce 1 pound of wheat: 25 gallons > * Water needed to produce 1 pound of meat: 2,500 gallons > * Cost of common hamburger meat if water used by meat industry was not > subsidized by U.S. taxpayers: $35/pound > * Current cost for pound of protein from wheat: $1.50 > * Current cost for pound of protein from beefsteak: $15.40 > * Cost for pound of protein from beefsteak if U.S. taxpayers ceased > subsidizing meat industry's use of water: $89 > * Length of time world's petroleum reserves would last if all human > beings ate meat-centered diet: 13 years > * Length of time world's petroleum reserves would last if all human > beings ate vegetarian diet: 260 years > * Principal reason for U.S. military intervention in Persian Gulf: > Dependence on foreign oil > * Barrels of oil imported daily by U.S.: 6,800,000 > * Percentage of energy return (as food energy per fossil energy expended) > of most energy efficient farming of meat: 34.5% > * Percentage of energy return (as food energy per fossil energy expended) > of least energy efficient plant food: 328% > * Pounds of soybeans produced by the amount of fossil fuel needed to > produce 1 pound of feedlot beef: 40 > * Percentage of raw materials consumed in U.S. for all purposes presently > consumed to produce current meat-centered diet: 33 > * Percentage of raw materials consumed in U.S. for all pruposes needed to > produce fully vegetarian diet: 2 > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * Production of excrement by total U.S. human population: 12000 lb/sec > * Production of excrement by U.S. Livestock: 250,000 pounds/second > * Sewage systems in U.S. cities: Common > * Sewage systems in U.S. feedlots: Nil > * Amount of wast produced annually by U.S. livestock in confinement > operations which is not recycled: 1 billion tons > * Relative concentration of feedlot wastes compared to raw domestic > sewage: Ten to several hundred times more highly concentrated > * Where feedlot waste often ends up: In our water > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * Number of U.S. medical schools: 125 > * Number of U.S. medical schools with a required course in nutrition: 30 > * Training in nutrition received during 4 years of medical school by > average U.S. physician: 2.5 hours > * How frequently a heart attack strikes in U.S.: Every 25 seconds > * How frequently a heart attack kills in U.S.: Every 45 seconds > * Most common cause of death in U.S.: Heart attack > * Risk of death from heart attack by average American man: 50% > * Risk of death from heart attack by average American vegetarian man: 15% > * Risk of death from heart attack by average American purely vegetarian > man: 4% > * Amount you reduce your risk of heart attack by reducing your > consumption of meat, dairy products and eggs 10%: 9% > * Amount you reduce your risk of heart attack by reducing your > consumption of meat, dairy products and eggs 50%: 45% > * Amount you reduce your risk of heart attack by reducing your > comsumption of meat, dariy products and eggs 100%: 90% > * Rise in blood cholesterol from consuming 1 egg per day: 12% > * Rise in heart attack risk from 12% rise in blood cholesterol: 24% > * Meat, dairy and egg industries claim there is no reason to be concerned > about your blood cholesterol as long as it is: "normal" > * Your risk of dying a disease caused by clogged arteries if your blood > cholesterol is "normal": over 50% > * Your risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries if you do > not consume saturated fat and cholesterol: 5% > * Leading sources of saturated fat and cholesterol in American diets: > Meat, dairy products and eggs > * Hollywood celebrity paid by Meat Board to tout beef as "Real food for > real people": James Garner > * Medical event experienced by James Garner in April, 1988: Quintuple > coronary artery bypass surgery > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * World populations with high meat intakes who do not have > correspondingly high rates of colon cancer: None > * World populations with low meat intakes who do not have correspondingly > low rates of colon cancer: None > * Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat daily compared > to women who eat meat less than once a week: 4 times higher > * Egg Board's advertising slogan: The incredible edible egg > * Photographs often accompanying the egg board's slogan: Young women in > bathing suits, emphasizing the shape of their breasts > * Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat eggs daily compared > to women who eat eggs less than once a week: 3 times higher > * Milk Producer's original ad campaign slogan: "Everyone needs milk." > * What the Federal Trade Commission called the "Everyone needs milk" > slogan: "False, misleading and deceptive" > * Milk Producer's revised campaign slogan: "Milk has something for > everybody." > * Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat butter and cheese 3 > or more times a week compared to women who eat these foods less than > once a week: 3 times higher > * Part of female chicken's body that produces eggs: Ovaries > * Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or more > times a week compared to women who eat eggs less than once a week: 3 > times higher > * Foods males in U.S. are conditioned to think of as "manly": Animal > products > * Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who consume meats, > cheese, eggs and milk daily compared to men who eat these foods > sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times higher > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * The Meat Board tells us: "Today's meats are low in fat." > * The Meat Board shows us: A serving of beef they claim has "only 300 > calories". > * The Meat Board doesn't tell us: The serving of beef they show us is > only 3 onces (half the size of an average serving of beef) and has been > surgically defatted with a scalpel. > * The dairy industry tells us: Whole milk is 3.5% fat. > * The dairy industry doesn't tell us: That 3.5% figure is based on wieght > and most of the wieght in milk is water. > * The dairy industry doesn't want us to know: The amount of calories as > fat in whole milk is 50%. > * Oscar Mayer tells us: It is a "myth" that hot dogs are fatty. > * Oscar Mayer demonstrates their point favorably comparing the fattiness > of hot dogs to such low fat bastions as: Margarine, mayonaise, salad > dressing and cream cheese. > * The Dairy Council tells us: Milk is nature's most perfect food. > * The Dairy Council doesn't tell us: Milk is nature's most perfect food > for a baby calf, who has four stomachs, will double its weight in 47 > days, and is destined to weigh 300 pounds within a year. > * The Dairy Council tells children: To grow up big and strong drink lots > of milk. > * The Dairy Council occasionally tells children: The enzyme necessary for > digestion of milk is lactase. > * The Dairy Council never tells children: 20% of Caucasian children and > 80% of Black children have no lactase in their intestines. > * The meat, dairy and egg industries tell us: Animal products constitute > 2 of the "Basic 4" food groups. > * The meat, dairy and egg industries don't tell us: There were originally > 12 official basic food groups, before these industries applied enormous > political pressure on behalf of their products. > * The meat, dairy, and egg industries tell us: We are well-fed only with > animal products. > * The meat, dairy, and egg industries don't tell us: The diseases which > are commonly prevented, consistently improved, and sometimes cured by a > low-fat vegetarian diet include: > > Strokes Heart disease Osteoporosis > Kidney Stones Breast cancer Colon cancer > Prostate cancer Pancreatic cancer Ovarian cancer > Cervical cancer Stomach cancer Endometrial cancer > Diabetes Hypoglycemia Kidney disease > Peptic ulcers Constipation Hemorrhoids > Hiatal hernias Diverticulosis Obesity > Gallstones Hypertension Asthma > Irritable colon syndrome Salmonellosis Trichinosis > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * Chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by > meat: 55% > * Supplied by Dairy products: 23% > * Supplied by vegetables: 6% > * Supplied by fruits: 4% > * Supplied by grains: 1% > * Percentage of U.S. mother's milk containing significant levels of DDT: > 99% > * Percentage of U.S. vegetarian mother's milk containing significant > levels of DDT: 8% > * Relative pesticide contamination in breast milk of meat-eating mothers > compared to pesticide contamination in breast milk of vegetarian > mothers: 35 times as high > * Percentage of male college students sterile in 1950: .5 > * Percentage of male college students sterile in 1978: 25 > * Sperm count of average American male compared to 30 years ago: Down 30% > * Principle reason for sterility and sperm count reduction of U.S. males: > Chlorinated hydrocarbon pesticides (including dioxin, DDT, etc.) > * Percentage of hydrocarbon pesticide residues in American diet > attributable to meats, dairy products, fish and eggs: 94% > * The Meat Board tells us Not to be concerned about the dioxins and other > pesticides in today's beef because: the quantities are so small > * The Meat Board doesn't want us to know: How potent dioxin and other > pesticides are > * The Meat Board particularly doesn't want us to know: A mere ounce of > dioxin could kill 10 million people > * The USDA tells us: Our meat is inspected > * -The USDA doesn't tell us: Less than 1 out of every quarter million > slaughtered animals is tested for toxic chemical residues > * The dye used for many years by the USDA for many years to stamp meats > "Choice", "Prime", or "U.S. No. 1 USDA": Violet dye No. 1 > * Current status of Violet Dye No. 1: Banned as proven carcinogen > * Wingspan of average Leghorn chicken: 26 inches > * Space average leghorn chicken given in egg factories: 6 inches > * Number of 700 plus pound pigs confined to space the size of a twin bed > in typical factory farm: 3 > * Reason today's veal is so tender: Calves never allowed to take a single > step > * Reason today's veal is whitish-pink: Calves force fed on anemia > producing diet > * McDonald's brags: 60 Billion sold > * McDonald's doesn't brag about: 50 million butchered > * McDonald's clown, Ronald McDonald, tells children: Hamburgers grow in > hamburger patches and love to be eaten. > * McDonald's clown, Ronald McDonald, doesn't tell children: Hamburgers > are ground up cows who've had their throats slit by machetes or their > brains bashed in by sledgehammers. > * Original actor to play Ronald McDonald: Jeff Juliano > * Diet now followed by Jeff Juliano: Vegetarian > * Number of animals killed for meat per hour in U.S.: 500,000 > * Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: Slaughterhouse worker > * Occupation with highest employee rate of injury in U.S.: Slaughter- > house worker > * Cost to render an animal unconscious prior to slaughter with captive > bolt pistol so that process is done humanely: 1 penny > * Reason given by meat industry for not utilizing captive bolt pistol: > Too expensive > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * Percentage of total antibiotics used in U.S. fed routinely to > livestock: 55 > * Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in 1960: > 13 > * Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in 1988: > 91 > * Reason: Breeding of antibiotic resistant bacteria in factory farms due > to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock > * Effectiveness of all "wonder-drug" antibiotics: Declining rapidly > * Reason: Breeding of antibiotic resistant bacteria in factory farms due > to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock > * Response by entire European Economic Community to routine feeding of > antibiotics to livestock: Ban > * Response by American meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine > feeding of antibiotics to livestock: Full and complete support > * Only man to win Ironman Triathalon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time > winner) > * Food choices of Dave Scott: Vegetarian > * World record holder for 24 triathalon (Swim 4.8 miles, Cycle 185 miles, > Run 52.5): Sixto Linares > * Food choices of Sixto Linares: Strict vegetarian > * Athlete who most totally dominated Olympic sport in track and field > history: Edwin Moses (undefeated in 8 years, 400 meter hurdles) > * Food choices of Edwin Moses: Vegetarian > * Other notable vegetarian athletes: > o Stan Price (World record-bench press) > o Robert Sweetgall (World's premier ultra-distance walker) > o Paavo Nurmi (20 World's records in distance running, 9 Olympic > medals) > o Bill Pickering (World record - swimming English Channel) > o Murray Rose (World records - 400 and 1500 meter freestyles) > o Andreas Cahling (Winner - Mr. International body-building > championships) > o Roy Hilligan (Winner - Mr. America body-building championships) > o Pierro Verot (World's record for downhill endurance skiing) > o Estelle Gray and Cheryl Marek (World's record for cross- country > tandem cycling) > o James and Johnathon deDonato (World's record for distance > butterfly stroke swimming) > o Ridgely Abele (Winner of 8 national championships in Karate, > including U.S. Karate Association World Championships) > > > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:05:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA22011; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:05:50 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA22001; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:05:45 -0700 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA16696; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.79.2.38] ([206.79.2.38]) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA01903; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:01:10 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:03:22 -0700 To: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: Respect? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >>plant in some former central american rainforest so fat white trash hicks > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Y'know, you folx might want to watch this kinda of sentiment. It speaks of >ignorance, hatred, and discrimination. This kind of comment, along with the >vast assortment of references to inbreeding, stupidity, and slovenliness in >regards to people from our southern states, is offensive to some. You'd be >surprised how many people on this list are from the South and proud. oh, well I should've chosen my words more carefully, but I didn't say "southern," I just said "white trash hix." I hope no one's going to rise up in defense of white trash... ("white trash need our compassion! The low ratings of the Jeff Foxworthy Show clearly show anti-white-trash discrimination. The noble white trash once ranged free and unfettered accross the continent, but now is limited to the 48 continuous United States. The republicans are trying to take white trash off the endangered species list? those NAZIS!" =) I'm OK with the south. I got problems with white trash. big difference. take care, -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | | | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | | | | avec le Headlands Band website | | et dj StarEyes aussi! | | | | Michal Migurski | | (408) 264-6604 | | | |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| | | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:16:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA22865; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:16:26 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA22860; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:16:24 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA21634 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:13:35 -0700 Received: from hera.synopsys.com (hera.synopsys.com [146.225.100.23]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA19107; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:16:18 -0700 Received: from [146.225.54.34] (mac-54-34.synopsys.com [146.225.54.34]) by hera.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA18672; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:16:15 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:17:03 -0700 To: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: Respect? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >I'm OK with the south. > >I got problems with white trash. > >big difference. > >take care, >-m. > If you're gonna label anyone "trash," ya gotta remember that trash transcends skin tone and geographical region ;) - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:18:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA22989; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:18:04 -0700 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA22982; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:18:02 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA23790; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:17:59 -0700 Received: (datura@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA05292; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:17:20 -0700 From: "datura@best.com" Message-Id: <199608020017.RAA05292@shellx.best.com> Subject: Re: Stats on meat and veggies..long To: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Knucklehead" at Aug 1, 96 11:30:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 575 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hey, i just thought i'd point out re: how much grain it takes to raise a pound of beef vs how many people that grain could feed... there is a *huge* surplus of grain in this country, ask any farmer..the government has programs that pay farmers not to plant certain grains and just leave the ground as grass in order to keep the grain prices high enough for farmers to make a living.. i don't think many of the starving people in the world are starving because the cows are eating their food, i guess is what i'm tryin to say :) giving away too much of his past, justin From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:21:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA23260; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:21:32 -0700 Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA23244; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:21:28 -0700 Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA246345278; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:21:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:21:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: Astrological signs of sfravers To: "Eric P. Peterson" Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, Czefir@aol.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > The results are in! > Sagittarius - 6 YAAAY! I like it that I am a rarity! :) your loving Sag, Amy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:24:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA23583; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:24:23 -0700 Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA23577; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:24:20 -0700 Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA01056; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:24:18 -0700 Received: from hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA01158; Thu, 1 Aug 96 17:24:17 PDT From: mikes@nit.AirTouch.COM (Mike Schneir) Message-Id: <9608020024.AA01158@nit.AirTouch.COM> Subject: Re: Respect? (NRR) To: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: SDream@tgrigsby.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "michal migurski" at Aug 1, 96 05:03:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I believe you'll find that trash of all races eat plenty of meat in the States, and elsewhere. I have problems with them all (but not because they eat meat.) Hmmm. Chrysalis or Juggernaut... -mike > > >>plant in some former central american rainforest so fat white trash hicks > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Y'know, you folx might want to watch this kinda of sentiment. It speaks of > >ignorance, hatred, and discrimination. This kind of comment, along with the > >vast assortment of references to inbreeding, stupidity, and slovenliness in > >regards to people from our southern states, is offensive to some. You'd be > >surprised how many people on this list are from the South and proud. > > oh, well I should've chosen my words more carefully, but I didn't say > "southern," I just said "white trash hix." I hope no one's going to rise up > in defense of white trash... ("white trash need our compassion! The low > ratings of the Jeff Foxworthy Show clearly show anti-white-trash > discrimination. The noble white trash once ranged free and unfettered > accross the continent, but now is limited to the 48 continuous United > States. The republicans are trying to take white trash off the endangered > species list? those NAZIS!" =) > > I'm OK with the south. > > I got problems with white trash. > > big difference. > > take care, > -m. > > > 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 > | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | > | for that whole body thirst situation | > | | > | (- Portfolio! -) | > | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | > | | > | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | > | | > | avec le Headlands Band website | > | et dj StarEyes aussi! | > | | > | Michal Migurski | > | (408) 264-6604 | > | | > |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| > | | > 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:26:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA23822; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:26:15 -0700 Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA23816; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:26:12 -0700 Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA250085561; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:26:01 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:26:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: SFRaves Burning Camp? To: Vince and Wayne Cc: Troy Sheets , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > The VW camp (Vince and Wayne) :-) will be getting there Wednesday > afternoon/evening to stake out our little place in paradise... I know that is where I'll be this time!! You can't miss Vince's big VMAR van. Tres cool. love, Amy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:28:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA23960; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:28:03 -0700 Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA23935; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:27:58 -0700 Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA29820 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA28447; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:22:12 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:22:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: Veggies/New Email! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Yea! I finally finagled an e-mail account...So now I won't get any work done, but at least I can post using my own true identity. P.S. Anyone need any more reasons to go veggie?! Thanks Robert for that list!! It's a good reminder to all of us that our individual choices really can have an impact on the world... I'm only a semi-veggie (white meat about once a week), but this thread has inspired me to make new choices more often! :) :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:35:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA24583; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:35:08 -0700 Received: from sco.sco.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA24575; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:35:03 -0700 Received: from grandad.pdev.sco.com by sco.sco.COM id aa19639; 1 Aug 96 17:31 PDT Received: from tehama.pdev.sco.com by grandpa.pdev.sco.com id aa17041; 1 Aug 96 17:32 PDT Received: from andrewk.pdev.sco.COM by tehama.sco.com id aa11444; 1 Aug 96 17:27 PDT From: Andrew Knutsen To: marisaw@psiwa5.syntex.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: (NRR) I Deserve a Break Today!!! X-Mailer: ScoMail 3.0.Bd MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9608011721.aa24393@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > ... eating only certified 100% all dirt products....SpinSilver > > > But what about all the poor microbes living in that dirt? Fact is, in order to survive, our bodies kill hordes of microbes every day. Since they are probably a "higher" form of life than our individual cells, and since they outnumber the body itself, it seems like we all ought to kill ourselves and let the microbes feast. Andrew PS but then those damn microbes are carnivores, so fuck 'em. AK ----------------------------------------- Andrew Knutsen andrewk@sco.com Santa Cruz Operation (408) 427-7538 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:48:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA25830; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:48:31 -0700 Received: from psiwa5.Syntex.Com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA25819; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:48:26 -0700 Received: (from marisaw@localhost) by psiwa5.Syntex.Com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA13661 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:45:40 -0700 From: Marisa Giancarla Message-Id: <199608020045.RAA13661@psiwa5.Syntex.Com> Subject: Re: (NRR) I Deserve a Break Today!!! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfraves) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:45:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9608011721.aa24393@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> from "Andrew Knutsen" at Aug 1, 96 05:21:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2057 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Fact is, in order to survive, our bodies kill hordes of microbes every > day. Since they are probably a "higher" form of life than our individual cells, > and since they outnumber the body itself, it seems like we all ought to kill > ourselves and let the microbes feast. Exactly my point - I have no problems with someone choosing to be vegetarian or vegan for health reasons (heck, I have no problem with people being anything for any reason, as long as they do the same for others and don't preach their "wisdom"), but to be vegetarian out of a misguided "meat is exploitation" feeling shows an incomplete line of reasoning. If you avoid eating or doing things because it hurts some other form of life, you have to draw the line somewhere, and once you do you have set an arbitrary standard, just as do people who eat cows and won't eat dogs or humans. The line of "I won't eat cows or domestic animals or any kind of meat" is no less wrong (or right) than the line of those who won't eat fido but will eat bessy. The extreme of this would be the jainists, who won't hurt even insects and so sweep the ground before them to make sure the insects have safely been moved out of the way, and who avoid bathing because it may kill lice or other nasties crawling on their bodies. And if you look at it, even they have drawn an arbitrary line because they still kill plants, and by even moving or existing kill organisms too small to be seen. Ultimately, being alive means that you must, by necessity, live at the expense of other things which are alive. It is impossible for that NOT to be so. And, IMHO, to be overly concerned about that which you are impinging on is just a downward spiral which gets you nowhere. Just do what you need to do to feel good about your life, and recognize others may have different ideas no less "right" than your own. > PS but then those damn microbes are carnivores, so fuck 'em. Omnivores - they eat anything they can digest, including their own. Marisa (Oh, and that's the last I'll say on the subject) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:48:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA25852; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:48:35 -0700 Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA25828; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:48:30 -0700 Received: from 13474597.mcoe.k12.ca.us (silver.salinas.net [205.179.129.141]) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA12042 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:00:27 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:00:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199608020000.RAA12042@lettuce.salinas.net> X-Sender: silver@salinas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfraves) From: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" Subject: Re: (NRR) I Deserve a Bomb Today!!! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 04:56 PM 8/1/96 -0700, Marisa Giancarla wrote: >> ... eating only certified 100% all dirt products....SpinSilver >> > But what about all the poor microbes living in that dirt? > > Marisa > > Microwav'em!!!! ......."Prepare to Be Probed!!!" (Independence Slogan) or as Randy Newman wrote. ..."they all hate us anyhow, let's drop the BIG one now!!!" As ever, Your Humble Servant, And Standing Up For Poor White Trash Everywhere, .........SpinSilver From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:49:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA25944; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:49:30 -0700 Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA25938; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:49:27 -0700 From: KarenK420@aol.com Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA10582 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:48:50 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:48:50 -0400 Message-ID: <960801204849_375396190@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Natural - anyone going tonight? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey all, Natural is going on, and I was just wondering if anyone out there was going. It's going to be pretty cool - Dubtribe, Galen, Jeno..... :-) Karen From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:49:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA25975; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:49:41 -0700 Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA25959; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:49:36 -0700 Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA268896968; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:49:28 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:49:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: Respect? (NRR) To: Mike Schneir Cc: michal migurski , SDream@tgrigsby.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9608020024.AA01158@nit.AirTouch.COM> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Mike Schneir wrote: > > I believe you'll find that trash of all races eat plenty of meat in the States, > and elsewhere. Just a warning from someone who's had experience: Be careful calling ANYONE trash, no matter how much you believe they are trash. I did, and got my ass BURNED BIG TIME by members of this list. Just looking out for ya... love, Amy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:50:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA26088; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:50:54 -0700 Received: from svpal.svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA26082; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:50:51 -0700 Received: (from djtom@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA05382; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:49:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: my first post about meat/veggies To: "datura@best.com" cc: Knucklehead , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199608020017.RAA05292@shellx.best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, datura@best.com wrote: > hey, > > i just thought i'd point out re: how much grain it takes to raise a pound > of beef vs how many people that grain could feed... there is a *huge* > surplus of grain in this country, ask any farmer..the government has programs > that pay farmers not to plant certain grains and just leave the ground as > grass in order to keep the grain prices high enough for farmers to make a > living.. > > i don't think many of the starving people in the world are starving because > the cows are eating their food, i guess is what i'm tryin to say :) nor are people being fed by the government telling farmers not to grow grains. 9o% energy is lost when you eat a cow that has eaten grain, compared to you eating grain. given that figure, if all of us turned vegetarian, there would be quite enough food for everyone, at which point meat could be reintroduced responsibly into our diets. thats given that everyone took responsibility for their human brothers and sisters, and our home - earth - but the world is just not that simple. people choose their right to consume meat over others rights to survive, and to support an industry which exploits and destroys *our* home, teh earth. theres nothing wrong with eating meat, but playing along with an inefficient system when alternate symbiotic ways are available, is downright selfish. currnetly it is nearly impossible to avoid 'playing along' but enough people are coming to terms with what has been happening, and the current state of the world, and this is a good thing - cuz enough people together can really make a difference. see you at burningman. *ahau* tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:57:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA26552; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:57:13 -0700 Received: from netcom3.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA26535; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:57:08 -0700 Received: (from meclay@localhost) by netcom3.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA29863; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:57:03 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:57:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael E. Clay" Subject: Re: Respect? To: michal migurski cc: sfraves In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Watch your step.... about 2 years ago someone on sfraves refered to "most" ravers as "white trash young males" ;-) Mike meclay@netcom.com | Alone & ecstatic Mike Clay (415)572-8971 | A young rainbow learns to levitate. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 17:59:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA26786; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:59:41 -0700 Received: from xinet.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA26780; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:59:38 -0700 Received: from DialupEudora by xinet.COM via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) id RAA15454; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:59:30 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <9608020024.AA01158@nit.AirTouch.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:59:26 -0800 To: Amy R Starkey From: Tony Rotundo Subject: Re: Respect? (NRR) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 5:49 PM -0700 8/1/96, Amy R Starkey wrote: >Just a warning from someone who's had experience: Be careful calling >ANYONE trash, no matter how much you believe they are trash. I did, and >got my ass BURNED BIG TIME by members of this list. And we'll do it again if you don't stay in line you little punk! =) Hi Amy! *wave* TR P.S. I think your ASS got burnt at Burning Man, not on this list. You gotta put high numbers on those pink and white spots! ;^) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 18:11:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA28096; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:11:37 -0700 Received: from psiwa5.Syntex.Com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA28062; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:11:31 -0700 Received: (from marisaw@localhost) by psiwa5.Syntex.Com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA13795 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:08:40 -0700 From: Marisa Giancarla Message-Id: <199608020108.SAA13795@psiwa5.Syntex.Com> Subject: Re: Respect? (NRR) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfraves) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:08:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Tony Rotundo" at Aug 1, 96 05:59:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 264 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > And we'll do it again if you don't stay in line you little punk! > > =) > > Hi Amy! *wave* Heh, especially if she picks on someone who, had I lived out here a couple of years earlier, could have been a good friend of mine like Traci Lords... ;-) Marisa From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 18:13:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA28263; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:13:53 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA28256; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:13:50 -0700 Received: from si.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id SAA14590; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:13:46 -0700 Received: by si.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id SAA19754; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:13:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:13:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Natural - anyone going tonight? To: KarenK420@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <960801204849_375396190@emout07.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996 KarenK420@aol.com wrote: > Hey all, > > Natural is going on, and I was just wondering if anyone out there was going. > It's going to be pretty cool - Dubtribe, Galen, Jeno..... > > :-) Karen > Anyone from Santa Cruz going with room for a paying rider? Ran -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 18:18:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA28776; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:18:12 -0700 Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA28760; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:18:08 -0700 Received: from 13474597.mcoe.k12.ca.us (silver.salinas.net [205.179.129.141]) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA12209 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:30:14 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 17:30:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199608020030.RAA12209@lettuce.salinas.net> X-Sender: silver@salinas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" Subject: Re: Anyone??? Going NATURAL tonight? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 08:48 PM 8/1/96 -0400, KarenK420@aol.com wrote: >Hey all, > >Natural is going on, and I was just wondering if anyone out there was going. > It's going to be pretty cool - Dubtribe, Galen, Jeno..... > >:-) Karen > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>What???Where???? Dress Code Strictly Enforced!!!!!!!! SpinSilver...being silly at the speed of sound..... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 18:28:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA29635; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:28:41 -0700 Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA29627; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:28:33 -0700 Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id SAA23941; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:28:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:28:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Karen Hardie Subject: Re: this is great....Meat/Veggie To: Knucklehead cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk well .. try to find a place that will spend than amount of money on killing their cows. it's not economical to kill them pleasantly just because we may find it discturbing. as for raising em, that's what free-range is for ... again, not too economical if you're trying to feed a LOT of people but fine for the few that are willing to make the effort to look. also, would you WANT to eat a cow after they'd shot it up with whatever? pounce ----------------------------------------------- ... -listen: there's a hell of a good universe next door; let's go - e.e. cummings From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 18:33:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA29920; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:33:10 -0700 Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA29909; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:33:06 -0700 Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id SAA24640; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:32:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Karen Hardie Subject: Re: the unhealthy vegetarian diet [NRR] To: Marisa Giancarla cc: sfraves In-Reply-To: <199608012041.NAA13094@psiwa5.Syntex.Com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk but there are sugars in fruits and vegetables too, and caffiene will burn you out in the long run after giving you that short boost. also, one of the reasons ppl feel so tired after a meal of meat seems to be that the body uses extra energy just to digest proteins. speaking for myself i NEVER get tired after a huge plate of veggies, but i do find i get kinda stodgy if i've eaten meat, even if it's not a large amount. pounce ----------------------------------------------- ... -listen: there's a hell of a good universe next door; let's go - e.e. cummings From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 18:35:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA00182; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:35:23 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA00167; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:35:18 -0700 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA01299; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:35:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) id SAA15384; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:32:07 -0700 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199608020132.SAA15384@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: Respect? To: meclay@netcom.com (Michael E. Clay) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Michael E. Clay" at Aug 1, 96 05:57:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > > > Watch your step.... about 2 years ago someone on sfraves refered to "most" > ravers as "white trash young males" ;-) > > Mike > > meclay@netcom.com | Alone & ecstatic > Mike Clay (415)572-8971 | A young rainbow learns to levitate. > > Hee hee...i love it. where i come from, getting called white trash is something of a compliment. here's my fave "white trash" delikacies: 1. velveeta and rotelle tomatoes get you some velveeta. melt it slowly in a pot. then, you add the chopped-up rotelle tomatoes that come with jalopenos. 2. lime jello with those little marshmellows and fruit cocktail. mix in some coolwhip for an extra flavor. yum! Ann From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 18:37:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA00338; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:37:13 -0700 Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA00328; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:37:09 -0700 Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id SAA25806; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 18:36:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Karen Hardie Subject: Re: Food For Thought To: KaySEE cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk well, since vegan doesn't include fish, you are right in some respects. however HUGE numbers of people in Asia have subsisted on rice, fish, and vegetables with maybe the odd egg thrown in for thousands of years, and many people of Asian descent can't drink milk due to lactose intolerance. I realize you specified third-world countries, but such large parts of China qualify i figured that my observations still have merit. :) pounce ----------------------------------------------- ... -listen: there's a hell of a good universe next door; let's go - e.e. cummings From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 19:15:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA03540; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:15:30 -0700 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA03533; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:15:27 -0700 Received: from [206.15.68.100] (sf-tty1-ppp.well.com [206.15.68.100]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id TAA02346 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:15:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: leftjab@mail.well.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 19:23:26 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: leftjab@well.com (leftjab) Subject: long weekend, taping philosophy Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk can't keep up with you all, as I had a grand slam weekend of fnf, sunset, and the two furthur shows in sacto & shoreline . . . then see these killer threads first, a brief weekend recap: fnf -- my first. More than lived up to the anticipation. sunset -- lying drowsily on a blanket in the sun, feeling the bass under me :) furthur at cal expo -- about 110 degrees. Bring shade to Burning Man. furthur/shoreline -- the past & future collide, old deadhead friends coming out of the woodwork, new raver friends saying hello, everyone smiling at my cookie monster/steal your face shirt . . . the all-star jam of Truckin'/Other One with about 20 people on stage (including Dead bassist Phil Lesh), followed by an amazing White Rabbit (with Jorma Kaukonen & Jack Casady of Hot Tuna of the original Airplane) rocked my soul . . . Remember what the Doormouse said . . . the mixtape thread perks up this Deadhead most. I agree with Tim/Knucklehead that it should be up to the DJ whether her tape is copied & distributed freely, and give 50 bonus karma points to Joe Rice for feeling similarly. I love listening to music while traveling, and can conjure up those images listening to the same tapes later . . . and love hearing tapes of Dead shows & raves I've been to more than other tapes for the same reason. I'm glad to hear that Joe is interested in the stories of his tapes -- copies getting passed around acquire a life of their own. It was great that the Dead allowed audience taping, and that philosophy helped them a little to spread their music and attract enough fans so that they didn't worry about money from record sales, but only from the live shows. I would love it if everyone shared the view that copying some tapes is ok, but understand why this isn't the case. We need to support the DJs -- some need that support in the form of tape sales. Others need it in other ways and won't care if some tapes are freely traded. The irony is that when it comes to "bands" I'll trade bootleg live shows freely, 'cause most people who get into bootlegs have already bought most are all of an act's official releases. The same isn't the case for DJs, although people who enjoy a particular DJ and make a point of seeing her have spent money for parties that sometimes makes its way to the DJ. One thing about the raving community that I love is the lack of separation between "artist" and "audience" -- we are all both and neither at the same time -- so I feel a lot more responsibility to the DJs than to bands whose members I'll never speak to . . . about recording quality -- how good are the tapes that are sold at stores or at raves? The DATs I've heard from parties are great, and despite Paul Anthony Rose's scoffing at 2nd & 3rd gen Dead tapes, I believe that a few people with the right equipment using good quality analog tapes could spread tapes out, but only if DJs consent and people are organized. "Tape trees" work, and I'd be willing to help with some of the organizing. The real limiting factor for most people listening to music away from parties isn't tape decks, but speakers and amplifiers . . . so if any DJs are willing to have their tapes spread via sfr, it can be done . . . maybe a group donation from people who get the tapes to hyperreal will absolve us of our copyright abuse sins . . . peace, love & tapes! FEED YOUR HEAD! leftjab From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 20:32:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA09072; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:32:52 -0700 Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA09065; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:32:49 -0700 Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA11376 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:31:05 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960802033037.00a4d490@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 20:30:37 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "THX1138" Subject: Rave @ Esalen Institute Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; And now for some rave news. A short rave was held at Esalen Institute in Carmel California, the verdict; the food; excellent, the people; excellent, the massage; divine; the space; awesome(built by mother nature), & the natural hot springs; eat your heart out people. = > Where next, and who's gonna go with me? And now back to our regularly schedule discussion on food. Peace Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 20:44:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA09838; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:44:46 -0700 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA09830; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:44:42 -0700 Received: from well (surfpunk@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id UAA12629 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:44:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Cyr Subject: Come & SHINE this Sat (bsp) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk All are welcome to join together this Saturday afternoon, Aug 3 & SHINE Outdoors in the park, 3 to 9pm with djs Bonnie, John, Jim Cyr, & Ronan Call 510.986.9150 for all the details love, tim (english tim) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 21:00:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA11085; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:00:10 -0700 Received: from ultima.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA11072; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:00:04 -0700 Received: from ultima.org by ultima.org; Thu, 1 Aug 96 21:00 PDT Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960802035828.096fbfea@ultima.org> X-Sender: freakz@ultima.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 248 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 20:58:28 -0700 To: SARAH ABERANT From: Freak Zone Subject: Re: join me... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 01:50 PM 8/1/96 -0700, SARAH ABERANT wrote: > >come party with me tonight!! > >sarah > I'd really like to but I can't, I have to be at work at 7:30am! Have fun! -Sean F R E A K Z O N E ! "House music all night long..." (415) 227-7421 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 21:00:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA11097; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:00:12 -0700 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA11079; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:00:08 -0700 Received: from [206.15.68.48] (pm1-ppp48.well.com [206.15.68.48]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id UAA14337; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608020359.UAA14337@mh1.well.com> X-Sender: crunch@mail.well.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 20:59:42 -0800 To: Troy Sheets From: crunch@well.com (John Draper) Subject: Re: SFRaves Burning Camp? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >I don't know if I want to face the harsh life of Playa living with only >our 6 person rented minivan crew. Anyone itnerested in loosely organizing >a SFR burning camp for all us stragglers who are not already in a camp? > Sure, I'm in... What do we call it? Crunchman From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 21:08:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA11885; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:08:54 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA11876; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:08:51 -0700 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id VAA24132; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:08:42 -0700 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id VAA15446; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:08:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:08:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Boshko Abrams Subject: Love animals because... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I love animals. Because they taste soooo good. [] munch, munch, munch, crack, Awwwww, I got a bone stuck in my teeth :|) [] Love, Mattloaf P.S. What food does my name remind you of, hummm? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 21:13:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA12304; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:13:55 -0700 Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA12297; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:13:52 -0700 Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA03465; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:13:45 -0700 Received: from hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA02402; Thu, 1 Aug 96 21:13:44 PDT Date: Thu, 1 Aug 96 21:13:44 PDT From: timb@nit.AirTouch.COM (Tim Beauchamp) Message-Id: <9608020413.AA02402@nit.AirTouch.COM> To: knegtel@horatio.ucsf.EDU, sac41673@saclink1.csus.edu Subject: Re: Overpopulation (was Re: meat vs. veggies)NRR Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Amy R Starkey wrote: > Remember the rat > experiments where they were forced to live too many in the cage? The > rats ended up killing each other and dying of stress related causes. I > think the same thing is happening, to a certain extent, to humans. A certain HUGE extent. Tim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 21:30:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA13562; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:30:40 -0700 Received: from ultima.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA13553; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 21:30:36 -0700 Received: from ultima.org by ultima.org; Thu, 1 Aug 96 21:30 PDT Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960802042914.4c27f31e@ultima.org> X-Sender: freakz@ultima.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 21:29:14 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Freak Zone Subject: The real cost of meat Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Food for thought: Did you know that since 1960 more than 25% of Central America's forests have been cleared for raising cattle and that for each hamburger rquires the clearing of 6 square yards? One-third of all the carbon dioxide put into the atmosphere comes from the burning of the forests to make more room for cattle. Seventy percent of all U.S. grain production goes towards feeding cattle along with all the energy burned by farm equipment and transportation. It takes a gallon of gasoline to produce a pound of beef. -Sean F R E A K Z O N E ! "House music all night long..." (415) 227-7421 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 22:35:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA18867; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:35:47 -0700 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA18859; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:35:44 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA25242 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:35:42 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby.vip.best.com (tgrigsby.vip.best.com [205.149.169.221]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id WAA02998 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:35:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:35:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199608020535.WAA02998@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Tao of Programming X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, folks, I seem to have just this minute become embroiled in a bit of a mess. A while back I happened across a funny bit of text called "The Tao of Programming". I found it online and asked the owner of the page if I could make a copy. He said yes, so I put a copy on my page and added a link from my main page to this copied page. And I looked upon the page, and saw that it was good. That was over 8 months ago. I just received the following message: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: JJoseph202@aol.com >Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 01:14:04 -0400 >To: comments@tgrigsby.com >Subject: Tao of Programming > >Is actually a copyrighted text originally published in book form by >Infobooks, Inc, and therefore doesn't belong on your web page without the >proper permissions. > >Who am I, you may ask? I'm the John L. Joseph who the original book is >dedicated to, and whose words and ideas you have published without my >permission and proper credit, unlike the agreement I had with Geoffrey James. > >I will be sending your mail address and URL to Infobook's legal department so >they can begin their investigation. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Irritable little chap, isn't he? Well, I guess I'll be taking it down. Lords knows, I wouldn't want Infobook angry with me (shiver), much less incur the awesome wrath of one John L. Joseph. I'll leave it up one more day though so that anyone that wants a little chuckle can check it out... S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 22:44:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA19389; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:44:10 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA19384; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:44:07 -0700 Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id WAA29257; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:44:03 -0700 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id WAA04764; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:44:03 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:44:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Party boy needs lift(s) To: sfraves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all! Howya's all doin? Anyone hungry? All this talk of food has my mouth waterin'! =) Anyway I'm looking foward to another fun filled weekend. Trying to hook up with drivers going from the Santa Cruz area with a fun destination in mind. I'm decent company and I've had my shots (bonus!). Give me a buzz back here and lets have some FUN!! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ran -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 22:51:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA20016; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:51:31 -0700 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA20011; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:51:28 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA26660 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:51:25 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby.vip.best.com (tgrigsby.vip.best.com [205.149.169.221]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id WAA11624 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:51:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:51:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199608020551.WAA11624@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Followup on the Tao of Programming X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk BTW, this is non-rave related, for those that are determined to only read about parties... I just did a search and found over 1000 references to the "Tao of Programming" and each link seemed to have it's own copy. I dare say Mr. John L. Joseph and Infobooks will be very, very busy... S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 23:01:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA20744; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:01:11 -0700 Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA20727; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:01:06 -0700 Received: from 13474597.mcoe.k12.ca.us (silver.salinas.net [205.179.129.141]) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA12799; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:13:17 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:13:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199608020513.WAA12799@lettuce.salinas.net> X-Sender: silver@salinas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Branka Cehic , SFRaves From: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" Subject: Re: Jon Carel & FnF Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >hey branka..SpinSilver here....Looks like I'm gonna get that Jon Carel & Joe Rice tape sent to me next week. I'll be gone for the next 10 days leaving to Seattle and Vancouver..but I'll get it out to you when I get back. Do you have a tape to trade???? If you do, I'll include my address. Send me your address. Mine: SpinSilver (robertj) 7948 Lavender Lane Salinas, Ca. 93907 Minny Tanks.....Robertj > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 23:03:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA20949; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:03:48 -0700 Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA20943; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:03:45 -0700 Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id XAA07676; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:04:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:04:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199608020604.XAA07676@precipice.v-site.net> X-Sender: geoffw2@v-site.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: crunch@well.com (John Draper), Troy Sheets From: geoffw@cybertribe.com (Geoff White) Subject: Re: SFRaves Burning Camp? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 08:59 PM 8/1/96 -0800, John Draper wrote: >>I don't know if I want to face the harsh life of Playa living with only >>our 6 person rented minivan crew. Anyone itnerested in loosely organizing >>a SFR burning camp for all us stragglers who are not already in a camp? >> >Sure, I'm in... What do we call it? > >Crunchman Never fear john, This year there will bve a special "rave camp" a.k.a. the Techno Ghetto which will be 2 miles outside of the main camp. There will be at least 6 sound systems present. the camp will have a 1/4 perimiter within which people can camp, there will also be porta-potties. Around this 1/4 in diameter perimiter the sound systems will be located, some of the louder sound systems like the Purple people pusher my be deployed on a vector further out from the camp. The camp might also have it's on Internet feed if I can get someone to loan us a pair of spread spectrum modems so that we can bridge a 56K link from the main camp. The Wicked will be having a large scaffolding structure complete with lights and such supplied by Dimension 7. The rave camp will have it's own rave rangers including your's truly Sub Commander Lycos :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 23:08:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA21470; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:08:37 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA21462; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:08:34 -0700 Received: from wck-ca5-28.ix.netcom.com (shawna-@wck-ca5-28.ix.netcom.com [199.35.213.188]) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA20279 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:07:59 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:07:59 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960731231219.375f111e@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: shawna-@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "hey, where am I?" Subject: testing Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk just a little ol' test email to see if my Eudora's *finally* working properly once again. What a pain to have to cut & paste every message I want to respond to from eudora into netcom to reply & send. Yuck! Good to be back again, once again not knowing where I am. Love Shawna Do not go gently into that good night! Rave! Rave into the dawning of the light! * * * * * * * * * * * * * \|/ * * * * --O-- * * * /|\ * \O/ | _____/_\_____ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 23:23:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA22532; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:23:39 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA22527; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:23:36 -0700 Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id XAA01284; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:23:32 -0700 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id XAA06214; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:23:31 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:23:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Take the day off Friday!! To: KarenK420@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <960730230456_445924469@emout15.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jul 1996 KarenK420@aol.com wrote: > Hi again!! > > Just wanted to make a note and advise that all you take Friday off from work, > or from whatever you have to do. > > A bunch of my friends and I are going to Santa Cruz for the day to hang out > in the sunshine and thought some of you would like to join us. > > Nothing special, just a fun day by the beach. > > We're going to be by the lighthouse, where the drum circle used to be on > Sundays. Any body doing this tommorrow (8/2/96)? Santa Cruz bound boy Ran -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 23:26:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA22685; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:26:05 -0700 Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA22677; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:26:02 -0700 Received: from 13474597.mcoe.k12.ca.us (silver.salinas.net [205.179.129.141]) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA12857; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:37:29 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 22:37:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199608020537.WAA12857@lettuce.salinas.net> X-Sender: silver@salinas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "hey, where am I?" , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" Subject: Re: testing Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 11:07 PM 8/1/96 -0700, hey, where am I? wrote: >Shawna > > > Do not go gently into that good night! > Rave! Rave into the dawning of the light! > > > * * * > * * * * > * * * * > * * \|/ * * > * * --O-- * * > * /|\ * > > > \O/ > | > _____/_\_____ > >..............Hi Shawna...............SpinSilver here....The quote from Dylan Thomas reads..............(Thought you'd like to know,........ not a put down.) Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage,rage against the dying of the light Dylan Thomas From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 23:37:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA23334; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:37:37 -0700 Received: from netcom2.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA23329; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:37:34 -0700 Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom2.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA28611; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:37:29 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:37:29 -0700 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Subject: Re: Respect? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >>plant in some former central american rainforest so fat white trash hicks > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Y'know, you folx might want to watch this kinda of sentiment. It speaks of >ignorance, hatred, and discrimination. This kind of comment, along with the >vast assortment of references to inbreeding, stupidity, and slovenliness in >regards to people from our southern states, is offensive to some. You'd be >surprised how many people on this list are from the South and proud. > >Now you're probably sitting there thinking one of two things: > >1. How can you be proud when there's still a lot of racism in the South? >2. Then why is it that every ignorant, gap-toothed weirdo on a television >talk show seems to speak with a southern accent? > >First, racism is everywhere in this country. I'm not going to try to defend >anyone that even so much as tells racist jokes, but don't put off racism on >the South as though that's it's last bastion. > >Second, there are just as many ignorant, gap-toothed weirdos here as there >are there. I won't name names, but there are some right in our own scene >that astound me with their strange local form of ignorance and arrogance. > >A Southern accent does not make you a bad person. > >S -- Tallahassee, FL. Right on T! I hate the term white trash. I remember a melanin challenged friend of mine equated it to that OTHER word, you know, the mark fuhrman word, you know, the N word. Yep, same thing, another way to objectify and dehumanize people. I guess some will always have a need to use such words to elevate themselves at the expense of others. Whatever, this planet needs a...break. Save the rationalizations and explanations. Been there, heard that, AND it's still stupid. Later. I can say this, I've met more country ass MF's here in California than I ever met in my home state of Florida. At least in Florida you always know where you stand...more than I can say for many other places, Cali included. Out, John - Miami, Florida : Home to Tony Montana. 2 Live Crew, and Drive-by's before Cali made them fashionable. Straight jackin', baddest place on Earth...ask any tourist! Florida so bad, muthafuckin' cockroaches will kick yo' ass! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 23:41:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA23623; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:41:49 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA23617; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:41:47 -0700 Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id XAA01980; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:41:41 -0700 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id XAA06793; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:41:41 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:41:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "-=]liquid[=-" Subject: :::> RADIO IDEA<::: To: randreams@cats.ucsc.edu cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19960731231219.375f111e@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk QUESTION: why is it that the only 'progressive' music out there is on espn durning the 'plays of the wee' and in between live 105 sets? what would it take to do an unauthorized brodcast in the bay area? slam down some break-beats and hard house ...culturize all them folk!@&#@% ~liquid ___ . . _.--"~~ __"-. ,-" .-~ ~"-\ . . .^ / ( ) . + {_.---._ / ~ / . Y . / \_j + . Y ( --l__ | "-. . | (___ \ . | .)~-.__/ . . l _) . \ "l + \ \ \ ^. . ^. "-. . "-._ ~-.___, . "--.._____.^ ,-. ,-. ,-. .-. _ _ .-. .-. .-. .-. .' ,'.' ,'.' ,' : : :_; :_; : : `. `.`. `.`. `. : : : : : : : : .-. .---..-..-..-. .-' : : : : : : : ` `. ` `. ` `. : :_ : :' .; :: :; :: :' .; : ,' ' ,' ' ,' ' `._; `._; `._; `.__;:_;`._. ;`.__.':_;`.__.' :_,' :_,' :_,' : : :_: .----. `-- ; _____ ,----- ,',' ,-----. _____ :_____::-----: : : :-----::_____: `-----' :_: `-----' @cats.ucsc.edu From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 23:45:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA23890; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:45:26 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA23883; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:45:23 -0700 Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id XAA02208; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:45:16 -0700 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id XAA06941; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:45:16 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:45:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: TGIF To: sfraves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all! Any drivers goin to either of these events who like to give this Santa Cruz hick a lift to have FUN FUN FUN FUN?!? Give me a buzz if you are in the mood!! =) Peace out Ran -=*=- ~ Friday, August 2nd - The Brotherhood of Indonesia presents _Planet E_ Jim Hopkins, Donald Glaude, Tony, Jeno, Ghost, Frank Nitty, Simon, Rick Preston, Essence, Kwashi, Kevin Kind, Joshua. 415.560.5324 408.235.9344 415.340.5607 Friday, August 2nd - Tricycle Productions and Flomotion presents _Chemical Daze_ An evolving dance party celebrating the release of the cult hit movie Trainspotting. Gavan (Rub-a-Dub), Chris Orr (XLR8R), Andre Lucero, Everett, John Howard. Visuals by Dimension Se7en. 10pm-5am, . 600 Beach Street (at the Cannery), SF. 415.487.6613 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 23:53:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA24440; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:53:59 -0700 Received: from netcom21.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA24431; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:53:56 -0700 Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom21.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA15683; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:53:49 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:53:49 -0700 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Matthew Boshko Abrams From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Subject: Re: Love animals because... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >I love animals. > > >Because they taste soooo good. They certainly are delicious. And there is little we can't eat. Insects to higher order mammals. Nothing eats like a human. (or kills like one, a predator gone amok). Oh, the delights of being at the top of the food chain. Yummy! :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Aug 1 23:57:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA24786; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:57:43 -0700 Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA24779; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:57:40 -0700 Received: from DialupEudora (jsl@localhost.netcom.com [127.0.0.1]) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA12052; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:57:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:57:33 -0700 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Subject: Re: Respect? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >>plant in some former central american rainforest so fat white trash hicks > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Y'know, you folx might want to watch this kinda of sentiment. It speaks of >ignorance, hatred, and discrimination. This kind of comment, along with the >vast assortment of references to inbreeding, stupidity, and slovenliness in >regards to people from our southern states, is offensive to some. You'd be >surprised how many people on this list are from the South and proud. > >Now you're probably sitting there thinking one of two things: > >1. How can you be proud when there's still a lot of racism in the South? >2. Then why is it that every ignorant, gap-toothed weirdo on a television >talk show seems to speak with a southern accent? > >First, racism is everywhere in this country. I'm not going to try to defend >anyone that even so much as tells racist jokes, but don't put off racism on >the South as though that's it's last bastion. > >Second, there are just as many ignorant, gap-toothed weirdos here as there >are there. I won't name names, but there are some right in our own scene >that astound me with their strange local form of ignorance and arrogance. > >A Southern accent does not make you a bad person. > >S -- Tallahassee, FL. Right on T! I hate the term white trash. I remember a melanin challenged friend of mine equated it to that OTHER word, you know, the mark fuhrman word, you know, the N word. Yep, same thing, another way to objectify and dehumanize people. I guess some will always have a need to use such words to elevate themselves at the expense of others. Whatever, this planet needs a...break. Save the rationalizations and explanations. Been there, heard that, AND it's still stupid. Later. I can say this, I've met more country ass MF's here in California than I ever met in my home state of Florida. At least in Florida you always know where you stand...more than I can say for many other places, Cali included. Out, John - Miami, Florida : Home to Tony Montana. 2 Live Crew, and Drive-by's before Cali made them fashionable. Straight jackin', baddest place on Earth...ask any tourist! Florida so bad, muthafuckin' cockroaches will kick yo' ass! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 00:45:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id AAA29053; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:45:10 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA29048; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:45:08 -0700 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA23959 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) id AAA18349 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:44:22 -0700 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199608020744.AAA18349@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: NRR: dreamtime To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 00:44:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi everybody, This is not really rave-related..but you are all such an awesome group that I thought you could me help me out with this... Does anybody know of any web sites dedicated to collecting and posting dreams? I mean the kind you have when you're asleep! According to Iriquois tradition, dreams can tell you about medicines. Supposedly the healers know which plants to use to treat illness because somebody dreamed about them. Native traditions often have parallels in our high-tech world. Case in point: Sterling's collection of short stories "Globalhead" and other cyberpunky stories. But I'm looking for closer analogies than dreams in fiction. I'm interested in hearing about dreams that told somebody how to do something new. Another thing: can anybody point me to whatever Francis Crick has written about dreams? And also a good review of the current status of dream research? Yes, I should be sleeping, Ann From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 01:04:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA29941; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 01:04:16 -0700 Received: from dub-img-7.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA29931; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 01:04:11 -0700 Received: by dub-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id EAA01367; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 04:03:39 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 04:03:09 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: mini-rave going on at city e! To: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608020403_MC1-804-2929@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, Sounds like this was alot of fun. Sometimes I really hate living in the valley; like when it hits 107 degrees and I have to go outside and prepare my motorcycle for sale. Aargh! Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 01:04:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA29981; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 01:04:56 -0700 Received: from dub-img-6.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA29966; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 01:04:53 -0700 Received: by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id EAA28385; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 04:04:21 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 04:03:05 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: crunchman on art bell To: Andy Thomas Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608020403_MC1-804-2928@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, >Most of the interview focused on crunch's former life as a, um, telecommunications >expert :) People were calling in from all over the country to talk to the legendary capt. crunch.... This name is a total blast from the past. I had no idea that the Crunchman was the infamous Capt. Crunch. My salute to you, as you helped inspire many adolescents to consider telecommunications as a "hobby". All fun and games until the feds came knocking on my friends door and carted away his beloved computer. It was time to get out before I could be prosecuted as an adult. But the friendships I forged then are still with me today. Thank you Ma Bell. heh heh heh Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 01:09:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA00294; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 01:09:00 -0700 Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA00289; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 01:08:58 -0700 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp031-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.31]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id BAA03116 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 01:08:19 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960802081123.00a0f7dc@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 01:11:23 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Optimal Ping 99 Subject: Re: Overpopulation (was Re: meat vs. veggies)NRR Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >> Remember the rat >> experiments where they were forced to live too many in the cage? The >> rats ended up killing each other and dying of stress related causes. I >> think the same thing is happening, to a certain extent, to humans. > >A certain HUGE extent. for some more overpopulation stuff, check out the church of euthanasia's home page at http://www.paranoia.com/coe/ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 02:55:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id CAA14551; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 02:55:09 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id CAA14545; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 02:55:06 -0700 Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA18688; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 02:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (trose@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA06838; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 02:54:30 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 02:54:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Anthony Rose Reply-To: Paul Anthony Rose To: leftjab cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: long weekend, taping philosophy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > about recording quality -- how good are the tapes that are sold at stores > or at raves? The DATs I've heard from parties are great, and despite Paul > Anthony Rose's scoffing at 2nd & 3rd gen Dead tapes, hey...dont make it personal...I guess I should have added IMHO... have dead tapes that I still listen to (acid jam '68), despite the sound quality, the vibe and feeling from the music can still be felt... what is better than driving 8 or morehours to a show listening to the dead on a crappy box with your friends? but I cant really say that techno/house can carry the same feeling for me over the loss of sound quality usually associated with 3 or more generations. unless of course you are dealing with dat...or some really good recording equipment. I have had beatiful moments with one of my brothers listening to great house/techno music and copied the tape only to be dissapointed that it wasn't really the same. Although I still listen to the tape when I get that feeling...there is something missing. now...to move on...i would definately copy soemones original mix-tape, maybe 2nd gen mix-tape...and BUY a mixtape for under 12 bucks...and I feel that nost of the people that show up to (uhhh out on a limb here) cool parties feel the same way...I am still trying to think a a cool/(organizationally uncomplicated) way to spread mixtapes so that 1. DJ's that are worried about it can make some cash 2. make it easier for people to hear new music of course DJ's will get exposure for any of this... > I'd be willing to help with some of the organizing. me too... > > so if any DJs are willing to have their tapes spread via sfr, it can be > done . . . maybe a group donation from people who get the tapes to > hyperreal will absolve us of our copyright abuse sins . . . shooooot....forget that...why not keep it underground as a list...once a week or something like that a list comes out to sfraves with tapes available and people can order them from maybe a rotating address or something... > > peace, love & tapes! > > FEED YOUR HEAD! > > leftjab if { peace && love && music } { :-) } else { :-( } -Tony Rose From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 07:25:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id HAA07320; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 07:25:28 -0700 Received: from oldmail.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA07313; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 07:25:25 -0700 Received: from [205.231.222.75] by oldmail.domain.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Fri, 2 Aug 1996 07:25:23 -0700 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) Subject: BBQ on the Playa Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 07:25:23 -0700 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, I'll be bringing my beast of a BBQ to Burning Man hopefully. I think this will be alot of fun. So if you want to use it, look for me I should be at VW Camp or whatever there calling it...Vince and Wayne..The VMAR truck and all that. One note though, I'm not going to be hovering over it like I do at the BBQ&BEATS so you want something you cook it. If I happen to be there I'll keep and eye on it, but I won't take responsiblity if you come back after a while and find your food black as coal if I'm not around. If you can find Heat resistant paint, I might even let people paint things on it. See ya all at Chrysallis Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 08:13:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA11570; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:13:36 -0700 Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA11557; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:13:33 -0700 Received: from quickmail.apple.com (A17-130-8-36.apple.com [17.130.8.36]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16352; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:12:39 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 2 Aug 1996 08:14:25 -0700 From: "Jason Green*" Subject: Re: ---> RADIO IDEA<--- To: "-=]liquid[=-" Cc: "sfraves" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 FC1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Reply to: RE>:::> RADIO IDEA<::: Hey, man... I've thought of this one before, but it's a no go. You can only have 3 watts of amplification before the FCC comes down on your ass. 3 watts equals about a 2 mile radius. There's a station here in San Jose, but 2 miles? What's the point? A whole 20 people, MAYBE, could pick it up. You know what sucks though? LA has thier own dance music station - run and funded by Moonshine Records. They play a wide variety of dance - EVERYTHING. NO GRUNGE! WOO HOO! Sure, there's bad dance music, but there's also A WHOLE LOT of good dance music. The concept itself rocks. Maybe someday. I think we've all have secret Pump Up The Volume fantasies.... Just my $0.02 _jason_ -------------------------------------- Date: 8/1/96 11:49 PM To: Jason Green* From: -=]liquid[=- QUESTION: why is it that the only 'progressive' music out there is on espn durning the 'plays of the wee' and in between live 105 sets? what would it take to do an unauthorized brodcast in the bay area? slam down some break-beats and hard house ...culturize all them folk!@&#@% ~liquid ___ . . _.--"~~ __"-. ,-" .-~ ~"-\ . . .^ / ( ) . + {_.---._ / ~ / . Y . / \_j + . Y ( --l__ | "-. . | (___ \ . | .)~-.__/ . . l _) . \ "l + \ \ \ ^. . ^. "-. . "-._ ~-.___, . "--.._____.^ ,-. ,-. ,-. .-. _ _ .-. .-. .-. .-. .' ,'.' ,'.' ,' : : :_; :_; : : `. `.`. `.`. `. : : : : : : : : .-. .---..-..-..-. .-' : : : : : : : ` `. ` `. ` `. : :_ : :' .; :: :; :: :' .; : ,' ' ,' ' ,' ' `._; `._; `._; `.__;:_;`._. ;`.__.':_;`.__.' :_,' :_,' :_,' : : :_: .----. `-- ; _____ ,----- ,',' ,-----. _____ :_____::-----: : : :-----::_____: `-----' :_: `-----' @cats.ucsc.edu ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by gateway.apple.com with ADMIN;1 Aug 1996 23:43:53 -0700 Received: from taz.hyperreal.com ([204.152.144.36]) by mail-in2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA24224; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA23725; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:42:59 -0700 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA23623; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:41:49 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA23617; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:41:47 -0700 Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id XAA01980; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:41:41 -0700 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id XAA06793; Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:41:41 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 23:41:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "-=]liquid[=-" Subject: :::> RADIO IDEA<::: To: randreams@cats.ucsc.edu cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19960731231219.375f111e@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 08:20:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA12349; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:20:03 -0700 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA12298; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:19:40 -0700 Received: from uucp1.unix.portal.com (uucp1.unix.portal.com [156.151.4.11]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA23045 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:17:30 -0700 Received: from compattic.com (uucp@localhost) by uucp1.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with UUCP id IAA24097 for Sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:15:30 -0700 From: aguevara@compattic.com (Adam Guevara) Reply-To: aguevara@compattic.com To: Sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: F-8 Correction Date: 02 Aug 1996 16:05:36 GMT Message-Id: <189656989.200969196@compattic.com> Organization: Computer Attic Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello, Someone posted to ask weither the F-8 event was on Friday or Saturday The date is Friady August 9th. Apologies, Adam ____________________________ Transmitted from Computer Attic SuperCenter: (415) 363-8100 Corporate HQ: (415) 614-7500 ____________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 08:20:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA12409; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:20:30 -0700 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA12400; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:20:27 -0700 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA01344; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:20:14 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:20:13 -0700 (PDT) To: Knucklehead cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: BBQ on the Playa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 2 Aug 1996, Knucklehead wrote: > back after a while and find your food black as coal if I'm not around. If > you can find Heat resistant paint, I might even let people paint things on > it. Hey, maybe we can paint our food? Day-glo chicken.... mmmm....yummy! Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 08:50:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA14913; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:50:24 -0700 Received: from lettuce.salinas.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA14907; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:50:20 -0700 Received: from 13474597.mcoe.k12.ca.us (silver.salinas.net [205.179.129.141]) by lettuce.salinas.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA13360; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:02:33 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:02:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199608021502.IAA13360@lettuce.salinas.net> X-Sender: silver@salinas.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: aguevara@compattic.com, Sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" Subject: Re: F-8 Correction Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 04:05 PM 8/2/96 GMT, Adam Guevara wrote: > >Hello, > >Someone posted to ask weither the F-8 event was on Friday or Saturday > >The date is Friady August 9th. > > >Apologies, > >Adam >____________________________ Hey Adam....Friday that's even better...I want to come up from Monterey area and I know tickets are limited to 200...How can I secure a couple of tickets in advance??? SpinSilver > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 08:56:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA15312; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:56:10 -0700 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA15307; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:56:08 -0700 Received: from natasha.ricochet.net (mg131-139.ricochet.net [204.179.131.139]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA13179 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 08:56:05 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960802154928.006b214c@best.com> X-Sender: mdpkl@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 08:49:28 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" Subject: hello world! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ... we interrupt the current round of infighting to bring you a word from our sponsor.... hello world! i hope your day is treating you well (you need to treat it well, first), as i know mine will. i'm in one of those really happy moods. why? 1)i went out dancing with sarah aberant to natural last night, and that was fun, 2)my roommate, who was studying for the bar exam, is now gone (try living with someone studying for the bar. good, dont!), 3) i'm looking foreward to dinner with friends both tonight and tomorrow night, and 4)chrysalis! so, other than that, i have ABSOLUTELY nothing to be happy about! love to you all, and i hope you treat your day well! love- matt l From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 09:11:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA16833; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:11:29 -0700 Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA16819; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:11:24 -0700 Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA22809 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:10:38 -0700 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199608021610.JAA22809@trix.cisco.com> Subject: Chrysalis To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:10:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 353 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, I have two friends in from out of town and I will be taking them to their first rave experience this weekend. Don't know yet what I'll be wearing except for my hat. One of my friends brought in 2 white navy hats. I'll probably be wearing one of those and he'll probably be wearing the other. He'll be the taller of the 2 of us. cya there jay From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 09:21:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA17689; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:21:18 -0700 Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA17679; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:21:15 -0700 From: SPRIGHTLYC@aol.com Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA01696 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:20:36 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:20:36 -0400 Message-ID: <960802122036_447927562@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Looking for my twin. Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi there everyone! I have been lurking on SFraves for over a year and a half now and I post privately to most of you, but now I have a question for the whole group. I am trying to see if anyone knows a rave promoter named Nikki. I have been stopped at Friends and Family parties and Sunset parties by people saying "Hi Nikki". This has happened more than a few times now and I'm just wondering if we look a lot alike. I was the person in the flourescent dress at Friends and Family hanging out with Amy Starkey's group. Does anyone know Nikki and does anyone have a picture of her? Just curious to see if I have a twin out there. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 09:37:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA19131; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:37:56 -0700 Received: from holly.ColoState.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA19114; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:37:51 -0700 Received: by holly.ColoState.EDU (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA73912; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:37:49 -0600 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:37:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Maren Ault To: mtn-raves@hyperreal.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: good-bye, unsubscribe Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk well, i am off for vacation in the lovely land of lakes and mosquitos...minnesota. I will be back in time for school (the 26th). I may or may not go to head in the clouds tomorrow. My friend Erin is having a kick-ass party and they are always better than raves. Anyhow...bye if I don't see any of ya mtn-ravers tomorrow. Have a great three weeks before school starts! Rah-nay From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 09:45:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA20037; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:45:57 -0700 Received: from alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA20032; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:45:54 -0700 Received: (from shamini@localhost) by alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov (8.6.11/8.6.11) id JAA02186 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:42:30 -0700 From: Shamini Jain Message-Id: <199608021642.JAA02186@alois.icon.palo-alto.med.va.gov> Subject: re: (NRR) I Deserve...-picky- To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:42:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2852 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Marisa, you write: > If you > avoid eating or doing things because it hurts some other form of life, > you have to draw the line somewhere, and once you do you have set an > arbitrary standard, just as do people who eat cows and won't eat dogs or > humans. The line of "I won't eat cows or domestic animals or any kind of > meat" is no less wrong (or right) than the line of those who won't eat > fido but will eat bessy. > The extreme of this would be the jainists, who won't hurt even > insects and so sweep the ground before them to make sure the insects have > safely been moved out of the way, and who avoid bathing because it may kill > lice or other nasties crawling on their bodies. And if you look at it, > even they have drawn an arbitrary line because they still kill plants, and > by even moving or existing kill organisms too small to be seen. > This description of "jainists" should really be "jain mahrajis", or jain monks or nuns. Sorry to be picky, but it seems like every person who ever talks about jainism always refers to EVERY JAIN as being the way you described above (it would be nice if it were true, but it's not). It's like saying that ALL christians don't ever curse or have sex, if that gives you some perspective. Like you said, everyone draws that line somewhere. Jainism, however, doesn't "arbitrarily" draw it (if you look upon the definition of arbitrary to be "selected at random and without reason" as defined in Webster's...there is a reason for that line; it has to do with the fundamental belief of AHIMSA (nonviolence)and how many souls and senses there are in a life form. Jains believe that the least you can do with, and the less you can hurt, the better off everything is. So yes, there is a hierarchy of the senses and of souls in the view of jainism. I'm just trying to explain that this line is not drawn arbitrarily, as you so described; whether one agrees with the line of reasoning is a different story altogether :) Also, in the way you have described the jain monk/nun above, you are wrong, they avoid most all plants, and live on grains like rice and dropped fruit...they specifically avoid green leafy vegetables, potatoes, onions, garlic...etc...for the reasons i have described above.. >Ultimately, being alive means that you must, by necessity, live at > the expense of other things which are alive. It is impossible for that NOT > to be so. And, IMHO, to be overly concerned about that which you are > impinging on is just a downward spiral which gets you nowhere. Just do > what you need to do to feel good about your life, and recognize others may > have different ideas no less "right" than your own. Well said, I guess the only fuzzy line is what is "overly concerned" ;^) have a great weekend y'all! shamini (yes, I'm from the south too :o) ) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 09:50:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA20465; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:50:56 -0700 Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA20460; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:50:51 -0700 Received: from qmgate.corp.apple.com (A17-130-8-42.apple.com [17.130.8.42]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA35942 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 09:51:04 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 2 Aug 1996 09:51:18 -0700 From: "Mark Camp*" Subject: Calendar? To: "sfr" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 FC1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Did I accidently delete it or has it not been sent out yet?? If somebody has it, couldcha please forward it to me?? Thankya, /-M-\ !E.A.C! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 10:06:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA22268; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:06:22 -0700 Received: from svpal.svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA22261; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:06:19 -0700 Received: (from djtom@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA03389; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:04:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: Re: BBQ on the Playa To: Knucklehead cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk and that special sauce??? *ahau* tom On Fri, 2 Aug 1996, Knucklehead wrote: > Well, I'll be bringing my beast of a BBQ to Burning Man hopefully. I think > this will be alot of fun. So if you want to use it, look for me I should be > at VW Camp or whatever there calling it...Vince and Wayne..The VMAR truck > and all that. One note though, I'm not going to be hovering over it like I > do at the BBQ&BEATS so you want something you cook it. If I happen to be > there I'll keep and eye on it, but I won't take responsiblity if you come > back after a while and find your food black as coal if I'm not around. If > you can find Heat resistant paint, I might even let people paint things on > it. > > See ya all at Chrysallis > > Tim (knucklehead) > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 10:22:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA23960; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:22:11 -0700 Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA23954; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:22:08 -0700 Received: by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA01666; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:21:36 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:21:11 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: Burning Man To: Branka Cehic Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608021321_MC1-808-81D9@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, Lot and lots and lots and lots of water. If you don't drink it, you'll want to get clean with it. RVs are great if you can aford one. Alot of us took shelter in Brian M.'s last year during the Saturday afternoon's high winds. A rented van would be a cool haven also, no tent to take up or down. Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 10:22:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA23982; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:22:17 -0700 Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA23977; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:22:14 -0700 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA23876; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:21:42 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:21:18 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Burning Man shade To: "INTERNET:mvasey@mvasey.xo.com" Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608021321_MC1-808-81DB@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, After a few days, we finally had our tarp tied and staked well. It was the tarp's eyelets that began to tear away that promted us to take it down on Saturday afternoon and not bother after that. The small canopy style sun tents that you often see at outdoor raves, over the DJ, seemed to be the most durable when the wind kicked up in the late afternoon. Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 10:22:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA24016; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:22:31 -0700 Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA24004; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:22:26 -0700 Received: by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA13186; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:21:51 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:21:27 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: pre-Harmony BBQ To: Knucklehead Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608021321_MC1-808-81DF@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, I don't know how much help I could be, but count me in. Anything to make this event go off. Greg has done so much for us in creating a sense of...well...Harmony. Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 10:22:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA24030; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:22:34 -0700 Received: from hil-img-3.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA24010; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:22:28 -0700 Received: by hil-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA22678; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:21:56 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:21:21 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: Stats on meat and veggies..long To: Knucklehead Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608021321_MC1-808-81DD@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, Did you personaly type in all of these stats? Practice for a typing class? Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 10:22:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA24056; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:22:39 -0700 Received: from dub-img-6.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA24023; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:22:32 -0700 Received: by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA20131; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:21:59 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:21:24 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Attn F&F Crew & my family To: "Eric P. Peterson" Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608021321_MC1-808-81DE@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, <--- (people probably get tired of this opening, but it helps me focus on) (the good things that did or will happen today) >>I have a picture with you lying on the ground outside at the party, Jason. Your smile >>of contentment says it all :) Are my eyes open or closed? I spent about an hour with them closed, just listening to the music and mix of jumbled and distorted (me) conversations going on about :) Take care, Jason P.S. Can't wait to get a computer that is web-graphics friendly, I want to see some of these pictures that people keep taking :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 10:52:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA26883; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:52:03 -0700 Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA26861; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:51:59 -0700 Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id KAA10033; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 10:51:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608021751.KAA10033@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Rick Riffle Subject: Paging Clair from Gateway Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Anyone have Clair's email address? Thanks. Rick From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:06:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA28701; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:06:20 -0700 Received: from mindsphere.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA28694; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:06:15 -0700 Received: from [206.79.217.52] by mindsphere.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA28948; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:04:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199608021804.LAA28948@mindsphere.com> X-Sender: phile@mindsphere.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:02:23 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: phil@mindsphere.com (Philip Evans) Subject: Re: ---> RADIO IDEA<--- Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Reply to: RE>:::> RADIO IDEA<::: > >Hey, man... >I've thought of this one before, but it's a no go. You can only have 3 watts >of amplification before the FCC comes down on your ass. 3 watts equals about >a 2 mile radius. There's a station here in San Jose, but 2 miles? What's the >point? A whole 20 people, MAYBE, could pick it up. You know what sucks >though? LA has thier own dance music station - run and funded by Moonshine >Records. They play a wide variety of dance - EVERYTHING. NO GRUNGE! WOO >HOO! Sure, there's bad dance music, but there's also A WHOLE LOT of good >dance music. The concept itself rocks. Maybe someday. >I think we've all have secret Pump Up The Volume fantasies.... >Just my $0.02 >_jason_ Yeah, and if I have to listen to 2Unlimited one more time, I'll smash that radio, even if it does mean ruining a perfectly good dashboard. Groove Radio still sucks. Maybe it'll get better, but for now it plays the lamest vocal techno and salsa house possible. Not to mention Snoop Dogg every hour on the hour. Why, Swedish Egil, why? Oh, and any involvement by Moonshine (like *that* would improve things?) is only peripheral. They wouldn't have that kind of money anyway. [----------] [---] [-----] [-----] [-----] [----------] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [----------] [----------] [---] [---] [----------] [----------] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [---] [--------] [-----] [-----] [---] [-----] [----------] aciddrop@mindsphere.com (the money) aciddrop@earthlink.net (the show) aciddrop@aol.com (go cat go) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:17:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA29978; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:17:31 -0700 Received: from inet-smtp-gw-1.us.oracle.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA29971; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:17:29 -0700 Received: from mailsun2.us.oracle.com by inet-smtp-gw-1.us.oracle.com with ESMTP (8.6.12/37.7) id LAA05268; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:17:27 -0700 Received: by mailsun2.us.oracle.com (SMI-8.6/37.8) id LAA19804; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:21:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199608021821.LAA19804@mailsun2.us.oracle.com> Date: 02 Aug 96 11:13:12 -0700 From: "Aaron_Edsinger" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Where is the calendar? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Oracle InterOffice (version 4.0.2.0.35) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Did I miss something or did the calendar not come out yesterday? If it did, could someone forward it to me, or at least the # for Chrysalis.... thanks........aaron------------------------------------->> From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:20:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA00411; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:20:54 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA00404; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:20:51 -0700 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA32003; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.79.2.38] ([206.79.2.38]) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA18905; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:18:22 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:20:36 -0700 To: Amy R Starkey From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: Respect? (NRR) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Mike Schneir wrote: > >> >> I believe you'll find that trash of all races eat plenty of meat in the >>States, >> and elsewhere. > > >Just a warning from someone who's had experience: Be careful calling >ANYONE trash, no matter how much you believe they are trash. I did, and >got my ass BURNED BIG TIME by members of this list. I think I'm getting my ass burned big time right now... =) right, people? BURN MY ASS! -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | | | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | | | | avec le Headlands Band website | | et dj StarEyes aussi! | | | | Michal Migurski | | (408) 264-6604 | | | |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| | | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:22:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA00577; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:22:21 -0700 Received: from elaine30.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA00570; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:22:17 -0700 Received: (from gonzo@localhost) by elaine30.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA28516; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:22:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Mark Logan To: friends&family Subject: fnf pics? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk are they available anywhere online yet? -nub From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:23:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA00814; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:23:08 -0700 Received: from mercury.Sun.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA00715; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:22:58 -0700 Received: by mercury.Sun.COM (Sun.COM) id LAA19136; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:22:04 -0700 Received: from zacson61.EBay.Sun.COM by Ebay.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-5.3) id AA00594; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:21:55 -0700 Received: by zacson61.EBay.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA19674; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:23:44 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:23:44 -0700 From: Nicole.Glover@Ebay.Sun.COM (Nikki Glover) Message-Id: <9608021823.AA19674@zacson61.EBay.Sun.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Where is the calendar? Cc: Nicole.Glover@Ebay.Sun.COM X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:20 PDT 1996 Date: 02 Aug 96 11:13:12 -0700 From: "Aaron_Edsinger" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Where is the calendar? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Did I miss something or did the calendar not come out yesterday? If it did, could someone forward it to me, or at least the # for Chrysalis.... thanks........aaron------------------------------------->> Yes that is true didi it come out yesterday??? I still haven't seen it. Also if anyone has it could you please send it to me also. Thanx. :} Nikki From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:29:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA01479; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:29:01 -0700 Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA01467; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:28:58 -0700 Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id LAA16485; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608021828.LAA16485@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: Paging Clair from Gateway Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 11:15 AM 8/2/96 -0700, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 2 Aug 1996, Rick Riffle wrote: > >> Anyone have Clair's email address? Thanks. >> >> Rick Got it, Thank you. Rick From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:29:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA01543; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:29:36 -0700 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA01538; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:29:33 -0700 Received: from uucp1.unix.portal.com (uucp1.unix.portal.com [156.151.4.11]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA11735 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:27:30 -0700 Received: from compattic.com (uucp@localhost) by uucp1.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with UUCP id LAA08078 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:24:26 -0700 From: aguevara@compattic.com (Adam Guevara) Reply-To: aguevara@compattic.com To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Calendar? Date: 02 Aug 1996 19:02:14 GMT Message-Id: <262110.201583044@compattic.com> Organization: Computer Attic Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I second! --Adam ____________________________ Transmitted from Computer Attic SuperCenter: (415) 363-8100 Corporate HQ: (415) 614-7500 ____________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:31:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA01801; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:31:48 -0700 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA01794; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:31:45 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA20908 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:31:43 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA01002 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:31:10 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:31:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199608021831.LAA01002@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (bowowow yippee yo yippee yay....) Subject: Re: ---> RADIO IDEA<--- X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Jason Green wrote: >I've thought of this one before, but it's a no go. >You can only have 3 watts of amplification before >the FCC comes down on your ass. 3 watts equals >about a 2 mile radius. Literally, any one transmitter can only have 3 watts. To get around that you could have multiple transmitters. How serious are you? S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:31:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA01841; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:31:57 -0700 Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA01830; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:31:54 -0700 Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id LAA16976; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608021831.LAA16976@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Aaron_Edsinger" From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: Where is the calendar? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The calendar didn't come to me either, but here's the number: Crysalis: 415/536-9453 Rick At 11:13 AM 8/2/96 -0700, you wrote: >Did I miss something or did the calendar not come out yesterday? If it did, >could someone forward it to me, or at least the # for Chrysalis.... > >thanks........aaron------------------------------------->> > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:37:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA02373; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:37:20 -0700 Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAB02361; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:37:16 -0700 Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id LAA08985; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:38:05 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:38:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199608021838.LAA08985@precipice.v-site.net> X-Sender: geoffw2@v-site.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: geoffw@cybertribe.com (Geoff White) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk finger fmr@nexsys.net From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:42:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA02905; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:42:39 -0700 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA02897; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:42:35 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA06855 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:42:33 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:42:32 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lowe To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: No Nitrous campaign? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk A friend of mine from back in Ottawa just wrote to me. Apparently Ottawa is starting to have a problem with nitrous (and an especially large problem because people are *really* uninformed about it). He said he'd heard of a campaign down here (in the Bay Area), of flyering raves with nitrous information, called "No Nitrous". I've never seen any such flyers, so if anyone can tell me more about this, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks... : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : :"Time never started at all. Chaos never died. The Empire was never: : founded. We are not now & never have been slaves to the past or : : hostages to the future." -Hakim Bey, /T.A.Z./ : : : : : : : : : : finger for pgp key and geek code : : : : : : : : : From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:49:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA03614; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:49:02 -0700 Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA03602; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:48:57 -0700 Received: from oldmail.domain.net (oldmail.domain.net [157.22.222.22]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA22690 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [205.231.222.75] by oldmail.domain.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:38:43 -0700 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: phil@mindsphere.com (Philip Evans) From: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) Subject: Re: ---> RADIO IDEA<--- Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:38:43 -0700 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I like this.................. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:52:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA03941; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:52:51 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA03933; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:52:49 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA17865 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:50:00 -0700 Received: from hera.synopsys.com (hera.synopsys.com [146.225.100.23]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA04122 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:52:46 -0700 Received: from [146.225.54.34] (mac-54-34.synopsys.com [146.225.54.34]) by hera.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA13120 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:52:43 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:53:31 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: No Nitrous campaign? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > A friend of mine from back in Ottawa just wrote to me. Apparently >Ottawa is starting to have a problem with nitrous (and an especially large >problem because people are *really* uninformed about it). He said he'd >heard of a campaign down here (in the Bay Area), of flyering raves with >nitrous information, called "No Nitrous". I've never seen any such >flyers, so if anyone can tell me more about this, I'd really appreciate >it. > Thanks... > >: : J. David Lowe Hear that hissing? It's the sound of another powderkeg about to go off... ;) - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:58:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA02551; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:38:45 -0700 Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA02544; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:38:42 -0700 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp043-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.43]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id LAA13832 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:38:04 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960802184108.00cd36dc@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 11:41:08 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Routed Deliverance 99 Subject: Re: ---> RADIO IDEA<--- Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >>point? A whole 20 people, MAYBE, could pick it up. You know what sucks >>though? LA has thier own dance music station - run and funded by Moonshine >>Records. They play a wide variety of dance - EVERYTHING. NO GRUNGE! >>HOO! Sure, there's bad dance music, but there's also A WHOLE LOT of good >>dance music. The concept itself rocks. Maybe someday. >Yeah, and if I have to listen to 2Unlimited one more time, I'll smash that >radio, even if it does mean ruining a perfectly good dashboard. >Groove Radio still sucks. Maybe it'll get better, but for now it plays the >lamest vocal techno and salsa house possible. Not to mention Snoop Dogg >every hour on the hour. Why, Swedish Egil, why? Oh, and any involvement by >Moonshine (like *that* would improve things?) is only peripheral. They >wouldn't have that kind of money anyway. yah, dance radio stations kinda suck. there was one in Toronto called Energy 108. all day they would play all the normal stuff, but at late night they'd have trance and international dj's on. :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 11:59:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA04508; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:59:36 -0700 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA04487; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:59:31 -0700 From: Derek Chung Message-Id: <199608021859.LAA04487@taz.hyperreal.com> Subject: This Week's SFR Calendar! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (SF Raves) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves-calendar@hyperreal.com (SFR Calendar) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 19303 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Sorry this is a little late, it's been a tough week :). Chrysalis ought to be good for Saturday, and the Juggernaut Festival has a huge lineup and should be a juggernaut. In the weeklies, MAD has returned to Bahia, and Hedquarters is supposed to be nice; and Mission Rock seems to be hosting more events for the summer. Between work and travel, I haven't been keeping up with the sfraves mail, so please send me mail directly if you have updates for the calendar. Thanks! I'll be at Siggraph next week but I should be able to send the calendar from New Orleans :). THE SFR CALENDAR http://www.hyperreal.com/raves/sf/calendar/gencal.cgi _________________________________________________________________ Upcoming Parties in the San Francisco Bay Area Friday, August 2nd - The Brotherhood of Indonesia presents _Planet E_ Jim Hopkins, Donald Glaude, Tony, Jeno, Ghost, Frank Nitty, Simon, Rick Preston, Essence, Kwashi, Kevin Kind, Joshua. 415.560.5324 408.235.9344 415.340.5607 Friday, August 2nd - Tricycle Productions and Flomotion presents _Chemical Daze_ An evolving dance party celebrating the release of the cult hit movie Trainspotting. Gavan (Rub-a-Dub), Chris Orr (XLR8R), Andre Lucero, Everett, John Howard. Visuals by Dimension Se7en. 10pm-5am, . 600 Beach Street (at the Cannery), SF. 415.487.6613 Saturday, August 3rd - Space Children, In Touch, Mantra & Bay Area Sound System presents Juggernaut Festival Kenny Larkin, Barada, Freaky Chakra, Mark E Quark, Cesar, Omar, Nav, Sleepy C., Terry Mullan, Hipp-E, Donald Glaude, Jim Hopkins, Barry Weaver, John Howard, DJ Crust, Kode IV/Ceiba (live), Dutch, Surge, Theta Blip, Radley, Anon, Velocette, Beyond Race, Professor Smith, Wunjo, Jonah Sharp, Darkhorse, Keyser Sose meets the Cyclops, Glimmer of Dope, U.F.O., Abstract, Noel, Thad, 3D. Visuals by Eyetribe, Hyperdelic, Mantra. 5 zones of electronic dance and chill music. 415.273.1622 408.327.9277 510.433.7216 916.554.7177 Saturday, August 3rd - Gateway presents _Chrysalis_ Minor Minor, Alex, James Dee, John Carel, Deaks, ambient DJ guests. 10:30pm-6:30am, . 415.536.9453 Saturday, August 3rd - _Shine_ Bonnie, Jim Cyr, Ronan. outdoors 3pm-9pm, Free. 510.986.9150 Sunday, August 4th - _Dub Mission_ glorious roots to neo dub Sep, Jah Bill. first sunday of each month 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. Elbo Room, 647 Valencia, SF. Saturday, August 9th - Frequency-8 Cyber-trance communication MARS, Myster-E, DRC, Ethan. Only 200 presale tix available @ Freq-8 415.221.4142 $8. 415.541.5019 Friday, August 9th - GrooveKid and FunkyBeat Productions presents Fed Ex DJ Dan, Donald Glaude, Tony, Simon, Jim Hopkins, Josh. 120,000 sq.ft. indoor/outdoor space 415.605.1915 510.726.5947 Friday, August 9th - 100 acre woods presents _Hunny_ Gerlando Piro, Dutch, Greg, DJ Dan, Cloud, Jon Williams. 10pm-6am, . SF. 415.263.4885 Friday, August 9th - Cloud 23 presents N.A.S.A. (Nice & Safe Attitude) Manuel, Jaz, JoNathan, Chris Jackson, erol, Jason. outdoors Free. 408.720.8646 Saturday, August 10th - Spundae presents _Nation _ Sasha (UK), John Digweed (UK), Jimmy Van Malleghem (Florida), Taylor (LA), Kimball Collins, Donald Glaude, Simon, DJ Dan, Henrik, Jeno, Carlos, Tony, B.T. featuring Vincent Covello (live), Freaky Chakra (live), Professor Smith, Wunjo. presale tix at Housewares, Ameba, Record Rack, Primal, Solid Grooves, In-Tha-Mix 9pm-8am, . 415.764.2922 415.267.0568 415.974.9389 503.514.2776 Sunday, August 11st - Funky Tekno Tribe and Urb Magazine presents _The Logical Progression Tour_ LTJ Bukem, MC Conrad, Tayla, Raymond Roker, Darkhorse, Jonah Sharp, surprise guests. Free. 415.266.8215 Friday, August 16th - Global Groove presents _Irian Jaya_ a party about togetherness Taj, John Howard, Thomas, Norm the Truth, Moises (aka Mofo), Micron, Brainee. 10pm-6am, . 415.273.5449 Saturday, August 17th - Tribal Funk presents _Got Funk?_ Spun, Josh, Jeno, Tony, Daniel (moontribe), O'Keef (Philly). more info to come... Saturday, August 23rd - Nexus presents _Open_ Hipp-E, Eric Davenport, Trance, Terence Toy, Tony, Jeno, Moshe, Shome, Boomerang, Fidget. Nexus Holistic Sanctuary, Live Butterfly Palace Free acupuncture, aroma therapy, herbal clinics, massage, water, fruit. $10 before 11pm if you bring a flower dress like an angel or fairy and receive 2$ off 9pm-7am, . 415.273.5350 510.473.4767 Wednesday, August 28th - Burning Man 1996 includes Wicked, Dimension Se7en, Gateway Systems, CCC, Drop Bass Network, SPAZ and Generation of Noise Sound Systems. save $10 by registering by June 1st. runs entire weekend, through September 2nd. All ages, $35. Black Rock Desert, Nevada. 415.985.7471 Saturday, August 31st - Feel Good Entertainment presents _Mega-Buzz One_ Sean Murray, Galen, Solar, John Howard, John Mac, Laron, NYC Sense, Harry Who?, Mattski, Erik Spire, Liquid, Mei-Lwun, Jay Hartley, Chris #23, Carlos, Ghost, Frank Nitty, Essence, Henrik, Simon, Tony, Ernie Munson. 6 arenas in virgin SF location 415.569.6226 408.535.0402 510.433.9434 916.491.5950 209.569.7973 707.523.9369 Friday, September 6th - Cloud Factory presents _Planetarium_ DJs, food, frolinking, camping and such in Mendocino County drenalin, tim mcknew, deaks, cloud, brian flipp, mc^2, guests. runs all weekend thru the 8th mendocino. Saturday, September 14th - _Harmony_ Three Year Anniversary the final Harmony - presale tix only! 408.486.9591 408.450.3044 _________________________________________________________________ W E E K L I E S House/techno/acid jazz/ambient/etc reg'lar happenins Some of them may have ended - let me know when that happens... Friday _ Sound Factory _- House w/DJs Pete Avila, David Harness, guests. 9:30pm-7am, 21+, $10. Sound Factory, 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF. 415.543.1300 _Soul'd Out_ - House w/DJs Julius Papp, Rick Preston, guests. free before 10:30 9pm-, 21+, $5. The Usual, 400 S.1st St., San Jose. _Nocturnal Transmission_ - House w/DJs David Harness, Tim Martinez, Saint John, guests. $5 before midnight. 11pm-5am, 21+, $10. 55 Natoma St., SF. 415.957.1730 _Liquid Fridays_ - House w/DJs various DJs. 10pm-2am, 18+, Free. 2721 Broadway, Sacramento., Sacramento. 916.484.4285 the green door - "where circles meet squares" w/DJs andrew, thomas, caspar, paul, felix the dog, guests. 10pm-3am, 21+, $7. 880 Stevenson @ 10th, SF. _Nikita_ - house, techno w/DJs Jeno, Simon, Henrik. 10pm-7am, 21+, $10. 1015 Folsom St, SF. 415.267.0568 [8.9 - Carl Cox, Mark Lewis] _Beats_ - house, breakbeat, trance w/DJs Carlos Campos, Karizma, weekly guests. 7042 Folsom Blvd between Howe and 65th, Sacramento. 415.273.1345 916.558.0850 _This Side Up_ - house, techno w/DJs guests. 21+. the Top, 424 Haight, SF. _the atomic cafe_ - acid jazz, trip hop, house w/DJs Finn, Matty B, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $5. Voodoo, Eddy & Larkin, SF. 415.267.4822 OM lounge - trip-hop, house, acid jazz w/DJs guest DJs weekly. 9pm-2am, 21+, $1. Minna Street Gallery, 111 Minna St, SF. Saturday _Other Whirled_ - House, Techno w/DJs Warren, Nobel, Jason Cassady, Nikki Rivera, guests. saturday morning 6am-, 21+. 201 9th @ Howard, SF. _Sound Factory _- big club sounds 9:30pm-4am, 21+. Sound Factory, 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF. 415.543.1300 _Release _- Acid Jazz, Funk, Reggae, House w/DJs Jerry Ross, Josh, Mr. Sulu, Randy Wong. 21+. 1015 Folsom, , SF. 415.337.7457 55 - House, Euro w/DJs Jorge Martinez, Tim Martinez, guests. 21+. 55 Natoma St., SF. 415.267.1858 _Vanilla Fudge _- House w/DJs Corey Black, Sunshine, Moonbeam, Jason, Big Lee, Darren. occasional saturday nights. 10pm-2am, Free. Cafe Bastille, 55 Belden Alley, SF. 415.764.2903 _Liquid Vinyl_ - House w/DJs Jay-J, Suiki, John Howard, guests. 2am-6am, 21+, $8. DV8, 540 Howard, SF. 415.957.1730 phunkatech - Jungle w/DJs UFO, Noel, guests. 21+, $2. The Top, 424 Haight, SF. 415.995.4699 _Metro Jazz _- Acid Jazz w/DJs Ruben Mancias, Mauricio Avilas, Tom Thump, Franky, guests. 10pm-, 21+, $7. 111 Minna St, SF. 415.974.1719 _Loveworks_ - house w/DJs Dani, Pete Avila, Jan Cooley. 9pm-infinity, . 111 Minna St, SF. 415.646.0744 _hedquarters_ - downbeat adventures w/DJs Tomas, Markus, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $5. Voodoo, 601 Eddy between Polk & Larkin, SF. 415.974.4358 Sunday _ Spundae _- House, Techno w/DJs Henrik, Carlos, Miquel, weekly guests. free b4 10:30p For Technotica, call 415.764.2922 10pm-5:30am, 21+, $5. 55 Natoma St., SF. 415.974.9389 _Leopard Lounge_ - Acid Jazz, Funk & Live Bands. w/DJs Suiki, Jay-J, Anthony, Julius Papp, Mark Farina, guests. 2125 Lombard @ Fillmore, SF. 415.771.2583 _Pleasuredome_ - House w/DJs Neil Lewis, David Harness, Phil B, guests. 21+, $8. 177 Townsend, SF. 415.985.5256 Quench - House w/DJs Rick Preston, Ryan Tapia, guests. 21+. The Usual, 400 South First St., San Jose. 408.535.0330 subbass - jungle, drum'n'bass, trip hop w/DJs noel, abstract, jawbone. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. 270 Brannan @ 2nd, SF. 415.905.8865 Strawberry Sundays - techno, house w/DJs Dutch, Jazz-E, Corey, Oscure, Jesse. $5 for under 21;. 6am-, 18+, $3. Bahia, 1600 Market St., SF. 415.635.9183 Mantra - A hypnotic trance-inducing affirmation. w/DJs Theta Blip, Starbuck, Surge, Neal, guests. 10pm-3am, 18+, $5. 683 Clementina Alley, SF. 415.331.1500x888 _Sunday Roast_ - techno? w/DJs guest DJs weekly. 9pm-2am, . Mick's Lounge, 2513 Van Ness, SF. 415.928.0404 Monday _Noc Noc_ - techno/ambient/jungle w/DJs Mohsen. 21+, Free. 557 Haight St., SF. _Tongue n' Groove _- trip hop, jungle, acid jazz w/DJs tomas, seth, m.mark, guests. 10pm-4am, 21+, $5. Cat's Grill & Alley, 1190 Folsom @ 8th, SF. 415.431.3332 _rotation_ - jazz, hiphop, soul, acid jazz, funk w/DJs racer x, yamu, stef, rasta cue-tip, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+. up & down club, 1151 Folsom St, SF. _21st sensory _- abstractbeatz-hiphop-dub-drum n'bass-electro w/DJs Tomas, Abstract, guests. 21+. the Top, 424 Haight, SF. 415.974.4358 _Movement_ - trance, breakbeat, jungle w/DJs Julio, Kimo, guests. 10pm-2am, 18+, $3. Bahia Cabana, 1600 Market @ Franklin, SF. 415.263.5797 _mad_ - trance, electro, old school, minimal, hard, detroit, acid w/DJs Joe Rice, Jon Santos, Alex, Ethan, guests. 2$ before 11pm 10pm-2am, 18+, $3. Bahia Cabana, 1600 Market St, SF. [8.5 - Caesar] Tuesday Breathe Deep - House w/DJs Jay-J, Ruben, Miquel, guests. 10pm-4am, 21+, $5. 1015 Folsom., SF. 415.998.9515 _Succotash!_ - tasty jazz - funk - beats - space w/DJs tom thump, rasta q-tip. 21+, Free. up & down club, 1151 folsom st., SF. _supper_ - funk, acid jazz w/DJs Caspar, guests. 21+, Free. Julie's Supper Club, 1123 Folsom @ 7th, SF. 415.861.0707 _L-Tryptophan_ - ambient, techno w/DJs guest DJs weekly. 21+, Free. 1624 California @ Van Ness, SF. _Lost in Space_ - house, hip-hop w/DJs Pause, Dark Money, Winnie B, Eric Lacy. 21+, Free. Cafe Mars, 798 Brannan @ 7th, SF. _Eclectic_ - house, jungle, drum & bass w/DJs Yamu, Siege, Franko, Foster, guests. Fresh fruit & condoms to all 9pm-2am, 21+. Paradise Bar & Grill, 5356 College Ave, Oakland. _The Deep_ - house, techno. 9pm-2am, . Palookaville, 1133 Pacific Ave, Santa Cruz?. 408.425.3316 _Speakeasy_ - house w/DJs Shannon, John Howard, guests. semi-weekly Coco Club, 139 8th St, SF. _Fly!_ - House, Techno, Trance with an emphasis on the Trippy Tip w/DJs Dano, Keith, weekly guests. Visuals by TNT Blast!.9pm-3am, 21+. Minna Street Gallery, 111 Minna St, SF. Wednesday _ Come/Unity _- House, Techno, Ambient w/DJs Simon, Jeno, Garth. first Wednesday of the month. 10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.241.8815 _Roots_ - House, Dub, Reggae w/DJs Garth, Jeno, guests. Buna & guests in the dub reggae room 10pm-4am, 21+, $6. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.512.5713 _cosmic lounge _- space jazz, galactic grooves, jungle w/DJs Caspar, Paul, Seth, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, Free. cafe mars, 798 Brannan @ 7th, SF. _Reunion_ - Danny, Naz Cafe, guests. 9pm-, 21+, Free. The Fulton Bar, 1243 Fulton Mall, Fresno. 209.488.5332 _Thirsty_ - tasty house tunes and even better company w/DJs Jellybear, Jay-J, top notch guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, Free. The Top, 424 Haight St, SF. _The Lounge_ - 9pm-3am, 21+. 1401 Arden Way, Sacramento. 916.922.8041x4240 _Wish_ - techno, house w/DJs guests weekly. Lighting by EyeTribe 18+. Bahia, 1600 Market St, SF. 415.436.0663 _Belief_ - house w/DJs Julius Papp, Harry Who?, Rick Preston. begins 5.22. 10pm-, 21+. Agenda basement, 1st & San Salvador, San Jose. Boogie Bowl - house, techno w/DJs John Howard, Sean Murray, Dave, guests. admission includes bowling and pool. 10pmm-3am, $8. Country Club Bowl, 88 Vivian Way @ E.Francisco, San Rafael. 415.679.3113 _Flux_ - techno, house w/DJs DJ Dan, guests. 10pm-4am, 18+, $6. 817 China Basin, SF. 415.541.5646 _Groove_ - techno w/DJs Dreamer, Carlos, special guests. 10pm-?, $5. 415.437.6905 Thursday Lift - House, Funk w/DJs David Harness, Ruben Mancias, Jay-J, Black, guests. 12mid-5:30am, 21+, $5. 55 Natoma, SF. 415.267.5984 Velvet Shop - House, Techno. 21+, $5. Agenda Bass-ment, 399 S 1st @ San Salvador, SJ. 408.235.1556 Full House - Acid Jazz, House w/DJs Finn, Matt Bernsen, Andrew Rawnsley, Bruno Ybarra, guests, live musicians. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. Miss Pearl's Jam House, Eddy & Larkin, SF. _Le Jazz Hot!_ - future sounds for jazz heads w/DJs Andrew Jervis, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. Nickies BBQ, 460 Haight, SF. 415.621.6508 _Real_ - house, techno. every first Thursday of the month 9pm-2am, 18+, $7. Pantages Theater, 1225 K St Mall, Sacramento. 916.565.9588 _Revolutionary Wax_ - coax your evolutionary ass w/DJs Consuelo Kevin, John John (Open Mind), James (Tweekin). 21+, Free. Dalva, 3121 16th St, SF. 415.252.7740 _Green_ - house, techno w/DJs guests weekly. 10pm-2am, 18+. the top of the Wharf Cafe, the end of the Santa Cruz Wharf, Santa Cruz. ThurZdaze - bringing you the true frisco groove w/DJs DJ Dan, Donald Glaude, guests. 415.605.1915 510.726.5947 _Seven Up_ - house w/DJs Guests weekly. 10pm-, 21+. Germania Lounge, 261 N.2nd St @ Julian, San Jose. _soulvation_ - acid jazz, hiphop w/DJs Roman, George, Aural B, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+. elbo room, 647 Valencia, SF. _Osmosis_ - house w/DJs Pete Avila, Jeno, Martha Wash (live), Jocelyn Brown (live). 10pm-4am, 21+, $10. V/sf, 278 11th @ Folsom, SF. 415.280.5850 _Natural_ - house, techno w/DJs Mark Farina, Mattski, Spun, Galen, Solar, John Howard. Mission Rock Resort, 817 China Basin, SF. 415.541.5678 _Funktion_ - house, techno, dub, trip hop w/DJs guest DJs weekly. free before 10pm 9pm-2am, $5. Maritime Hall, 1st & Harrison, SF. _________________________________________________________________ Info Lines * Be-At Info Line - 415-626-4087. Usually has 5-10 listings, updated daily. * the Buzz-line, a global party network - 415.568.1338 * Clubline - 415.979.8686 * Fatline - 415.207.3668 * Frequency 8 Trance/Techno infoline - 415.541.5019 * The Groove Line - (415) 331.1500 ext.4788 * Housewares Rave Line - 415.281.0125 _________________________________________________________________ Radio/TV Shows * Sunday night 11pm-2am - "The Dreaming/Innermind Show" w/DJ Miracle & Mr. Monchichi. House, Jungle, Trip-Hop, Ambient, Dub, Break-Beats & guest DJs. KSCU 103.3 (Santa Clara) * Monday afternoon 12:30-3:00 pm - DJ Jerecho presents the best of the urban polyrhythmic experience jungle, acid jazz, techno, electro, breakbeat KDVS, 90.3 FM (Davis) * Wednesday night 9pm-11pm - free form music mix. KPFA 94.1 (Berkeley) * Wednesday night/Thursday morning 3am-6am - "Aural Fixation" experimental sounds of ambient and trip hop with a splash of hi nrg, from trance to jungle. KZSC 88.1 fm (Santa Cruz) * Thursdays 9:30pm-midnight - "Aurora Borealis" Beats and atmospherics w/DJ Seth. KALX 90.7 (Berkeley) * Friday 3pm-6pm - free form music mix. KUSF 90.3 (SF) (also available on Realaudio * Fridays 9pm-midnight - Andrew from Groove Merchant spins on KUSF 90.3 (SF) * Friday night/Saturday morning - midnight-noon. House/techno mix with Johnny K, Ozone & guests - KCSS 91.9 Central Valley (Turlock) * Friday night/Saturday morning - "Just Desserts" w/Mr.Goodwrench - 10pm-2am Jungle, Detroit, Techno, Acid House, whacked-out Dub, and noise KFJC 89.7 - Los Altos Hills * Friday night - nocturnal transmissions - featuring house DJs from SF and around the world. mid-2am, 107.7 FM (SF) * Friday night - Your Mama's House w/Pete Avila - 3am-5am, 106.1 KMEL. * Friday night - Moondance. Ambient; 3am-7:30am, KUSF 90.3 SF. * Friday night/Saturday morning - the Uncle Noah TV Show - the best in Techno and House music. 3-5am, KDVS 90.3fm (Davis) * Saturday afternoon - "Bus Stop" - music and talk w/guest DJs from SF and beyond. 2pm-3pm. KUSF 90.3 SF. * Saturday night 11pm - Flux Television, Viacom Channel 53 - Ambient, acid jazz and house music videos & interviews. (415) 281-3377. flux@flux.net * Saturday night 9pm-mid - "An Epiphany of Sound" hosted by J.C. and Monkeywrench KZSU 90.1 (Stanford) _________________________________________________________________ For a _search_ interface to the calendar, see the Late Train club section (http://www.hyperreal.com/zines/late/clubs/). _________________________________________________________________ Administrative Notes If anyone has info on any other events, send it to me! I can't possibly hope to get all the info every week. This info gets sent via email every Thursday. To subscribe or unsubscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to majordomo@hyperreal.com with either the line subscribe sfraves-calendar or unsubscribe sfraves-calendar There is also an sfraves discussion mailing list for issues related to clubs, parties, house and techno music, etc. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@hyperreal.com with the line subscribe sfraves in the body of the message. Derek Chung - dhchung@hyperreal.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 12:05:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA05199; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:05:15 -0700 Received: from sco.sco.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA05178; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:05:09 -0700 Received: from grandad.pdev.sco.com by sco.sco.COM id aa26416; 2 Aug 96 12:01 PDT Received: from tehama.pdev.sco.com by grandpa.pdev.sco.com id aa01840; 2 Aug 96 12:02 PDT Received: from andrewk.pdev.sco.COM by tehama.sco.com id aa13498; 2 Aug 96 11:57 PDT From: Andrew Knutsen To: SDream@tgrigsby.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Tao of Programming X-Mailer: ScoMail 3.0.Bd MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 11:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9608021157.aa29687@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Irritable little chap, isn't he? Well, I guess I'll be taking > it down. Lords knows, I wouldn't want Infobook angry with me > (shiver), much less incur the awesome wrath of one > John L. Joseph. I'll leave it up one more day though so that > anyone that wants a little chuckle can check it out... They have their work cut out for them... here are a couple more URL's: http://rfhs1012.fh.uni-regensburg.de/~feyrer/Texts/TaoOfProgramming/index.html http://www2.e.kth.se/~torpvret/www/tao/tao_contents.html http://www.abc.se/~m8866/tToP/ http://www.luga.or.at/dolci/progtao/progtao.html http://www.crl.com/~disrael/tao.htm I spent all of 10 minutes looking for those -- 2 in Sweden, 1 in Germany, 1 in Austria and 1 in the US. I also found some deadends on Excite, meaning they are making an effort, but I think they'll end up spending more on lawyers than they lose in book sales if they go international. Sure this is rave-related -- its just like the labels trying to restrict mixtapes, right? Andrew ----------------------------------------- Andrew Knutsen andrewk@sco.com Santa Cruz Operation (408) 427-7538 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 12:21:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA07240; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:21:08 -0700 Received: from xanax. by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA07221; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:21:02 -0700 Received: from xanax by xanax. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA08201; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:20:27 -0700 Message-ID: <320254FB.52BB@excite.com> Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 12:20:27 -0700 From: John Kawamoto Organization: Excite, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: sfraves calendar Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk If you don't have access to the WWW here's the calendar copied from the web site: http://hyperreal.com/raves/sf/calendar/sfrcal.html ...sorry if it's messy! Peace, John Upcoming Parties in the San Francisco Bay Area Friday, August 2nd - The Brotherhood of Indonesia presents Planet E Jim Hopkins, Donald Glaude, Tony, Jeno, Ghost, Frank Nitty, Simon, Rick Preston, Essence, Kwashi, Kevin Kind, Joshua. 415.560.5324 408.235.9344 415.340.5607 Friday, August 2nd - Tricycle Productions and Flomotion presents Chemical Daze An evolving dance party celebrating the release of the cult hit movie Trainspotting. Gavan (Rub-a-Dub), Chris Orr (XLR8R), Andre Lucero, Everett, John Howard. Visuals by Dimension Se7en. 10pm-5am, . 600 Beach Street (at the Cannery), SF. 415.487.6613 Saturday, August 3rd - Space Children, In Touch, Mantra & Bay Area Sound System presents Juggernaut Festival Kenny Larkin, Barada, Freaky Chakra, Mark E Quark, Cesar, Omar, Nav, Sleepy C., Terry Mullan, Hipp-E, Donald Glaude, Jim Hopkins, Barry Weaver, John Howard, DJ Crust, Kode IV/Ceiba (live), Dutch, Surge, Theta Blip, Radley, Anon, Velocette, Beyond Race, Professor Smith, Wunjo, Jonah Sharp, Darkhorse, Keyser Sose meets the Cyclops, Glimmer of Dope, U.F.O., Abstract, Noel, Thad, 3D. Visuals by Eyetribe, Hyperdelic, Mantra. 5 zones of electronic dance and chill music. 415.273.1622 408.327.9277 510.433.7216 916.554.7177 Saturday, August 3rd - Gateway presents Chrysalis Minor Minor, Alex, James Dee, John Carel, Deaks, ambient DJ guests. 10:30pm-6:30am, . 415.536.9453 Saturday, August 3rd - Shine Bonnie, Jim Cyr, Ronan. outdoors 3pm-9pm, Free. 510.986.9150 Sunday, August 4th - Dub Mission glorious roots to neo dub Sep, Jah Bill. first sunday of each month 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. Elbo Room, 647 Valencia, SF. Saturday, August 9th - Cyber-trance communication MARS, Myster-E, DRC, Ethan. Only 200 presale tix available @ Freq-8 415.221.4142 $8. 415.541.5019 Friday, August 9th - GrooveKid and FunkyBeat Productions presents Fed Ex DJ Dan, Donald Glaude, Tony, Simon, Jim Hopkins, Josh. 120,000 sq.ft. indoor/outdoor space 415.605.1915 510.726.5947 Friday, August 9th - 100 acre woods presents Hunny Gerlando Piro, Dutch, Greg, DJ Dan, Cloud, Jon Williams. 10pm-6am, . SF. 415.263.4885 Friday, August 9th - Cloud 23 presents N.A.S.A. (Nice & Safe Attitude) Manuel, Jaz, JoNathan, Chris Jackson, erol, Jason. outdoors Free. 408.720.8646 Saturday, August 10th - Spundae presents Sasha (UK), John Digweed (UK), Jimmy Van Malleghem (Florida), Taylor (LA), Kimball Collins, Donald Glaude, Simon, DJ Dan, Henrik, Jeno, Carlos, Tony, B.T. featuring Vincent Covello (live), Freaky Chakra (live), Professor Smith, Wunjo. presale tix at Housewares, Ameba, Record Rack, Primal, Solid Grooves, In-Tha-Mix 9pm-8am, . 415.764.2922 415.267.0568 415.974.9389 503.514.2776 Sunday, August 11st - Funky Tekno Tribe and Urb Magazine presents The Logical Progression Tour LTJ Bukem, MC Conrad, Tayla, Raymond Roker, Darkhorse, Jonah Sharp, surprise guests. Free. 415.266.8215 Friday, August 16th - Global Groove presents Irian Jaya a party about togetherness Taj, John Howard, Thomas, Norm the Truth, Moises (aka Mofo), Micron, Brainee. 10pm-6am, . 415.273.5449 Saturday, August 17th - Tribal Funk presents Got Funk? Spun, Josh, Jeno, Tony, Daniel (moontribe), O'Keef (Philly). more info to come... Saturday, August 23rd - Nexus presents Open Hipp-E, Eric Davenport, Trance, Terence Toy, Tony, Jeno, Moshe, Shome, Boomerang, Fidget. Nexus Holistic Sanctuary, Live Butterfly Palace Free acupuncture, aroma therapy, herbal clinics, massage, water, fruit. $10 before 11pm if you bring a flower dress like an angel or fairy and receive 2$ off 9pm-7am, . 415.273.5350 510.473.4767 Wednesday, August 28th - Burning Man 1996 includes Wicked, Dimension Se7en, Gateway Systems, CCC, Drop Bass Network, SPAZ and Generation of Noise Sound Systems. save $10 by registering by June 1st. runs entire weekend, through September 2nd. All ages, $35. Black Rock Desert, Nevada. 415.985.7471 Saturday, August 31st - Feel Good Entertainment presents Mega-Buzz One Sean Murray, Galen, Solar, John Howard, John Mac, Laron, NYC Sense, Harry Who?, Mattski, Erik Spire, Liquid, Mei-Lwun, Jay Hartley, Chris #23, Carlos, Ghost, Frank Nitty, Essence, Henrik, Simon, Tony, Ernie Munson. 6 arenas in virgin SF location 415.569.6226 408.535.0402 510.433.9434 916.491.5950 209.569.7973 707.523.9369 Friday, September 6th - Cloud Factory presents Planetarium DJs, food, frolinking, camping and such in Mendocino County drenalin, tim mcknew, deaks, cloud, brian flipp, mc^2, guests. runs all weekend thru the 8th mendocino. Saturday, September 14th - Harmony Three Year Anniversary the final Harmony - presale tix only! 408.486.9591 408.450.3044 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 12:35:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA08816; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:35:50 -0700 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA08807; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:35:47 -0700 Received: from well (surfpunk@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA27429; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:35:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Cyr Subject: Re: Astrological signs of sfravers To: Amy R Starkey cc: "Eric P. Peterson" , sfraves@hyperreal.com, Czefir@aol.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk OK, Amy, as another of the 'rarities' (Sag) do we know whot the other 4 are? jim cyr On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Amy R Starkey wrote: > > > The results are in! > > > Sagittarius - 6 > > > YAAAY! I like it that I am a rarity! :) > > your loving Sag, > Amy > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 12:54:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA10517; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:54:13 -0700 Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA10509; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:54:09 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA24310 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:13:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wck-ca9-05.ix.netcom.com (shawna-@wck-ca9-05.ix.netcom.com [204.31.231.101]) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA05970 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:53:46 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:53:46 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960801125808.19ef938c@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: shawna-@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "hey, where am I?" Subject: Re: F-8 Correction Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Someone posted to ask weither the F-8 event was on Friday or Saturday > >The date is Friady August 9th. Is this going to be another outdoor event? I have missed every single other outdoor f-8 event, I'd love to finally make it to one! :) Love, Shawna Do not go gently into that good night! Rave! Rave into the dawning of the light! * * * * * * * * * * * * * \|/ * * * * --O-- * * * /|\ * \O/ | _____/_\_____ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 12:59:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA11236; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:59:05 -0700 Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA11203; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:58:57 -0700 Received: from mh1.well.com (mh1.well.com [206.15.64.22]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA24306 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from well (surfpunk@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA00383 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:53:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Cyr Subject: The River presents "Shine" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk more info it is Free we will start at 3:00 p.m. with a short opening ritual Bonnie will spin ambiant/dub until 4:30 David (the morning gabber guy at FnF) will spin at 4:30 after we've cooked the gabberheads Ronan will take over and play trance/house until about 7:15 we will do some sort of circle dance at that time and I'll close things out with dream trance (lots of Robert Miles, Beloved, Platipus) until 9:00 feel free to bring items for the altar which will be coordinated by Michelle from NMR And we'll be doing this at Pt. Molate - call the voice mail for directions 510-986-9150 Hope to see a lot of your shining faces ;0) Jim Cyr From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 13:00:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA11623; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:00:11 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA11609; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:00:06 -0700 Received: from wck-ca9-05.ix.netcom.com (shawna-@wck-ca9-05.ix.netcom.com [204.31.231.101]) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA06206 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:59:32 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 12:59:32 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960801130353.19efc716@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: shawna-@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "hey, where am I?" Subject: Re: No Nitrous campaign? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 11:53 AM 8/2/96 -0700, you wrote: >> A friend of mine from back in Ottawa just wrote to me. Apparently >>Ottawa is starting to have a problem with nitrous (and an especially large >>problem because people are *really* uninformed about it). He said he'd >>heard of a campaign down here (in the Bay Area), of flyering raves with >>nitrous information, called "No Nitrous". I've never seen any such >>flyers, so if anyone can tell me more about this, I'd really appreciate >>it. >> Thanks... >> >>: : J. David Lowe > >Hear that hissing? It's the sound of another powderkeg about to go off... ;) > Oh sorry, no that's me filling my balloon! ;) -shawna From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 13:09:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA12691; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:09:45 -0700 Received: from mail2.pilot.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA12678; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:09:38 -0700 Received: from artemis.chiron.com (unknown-46-3.chiron.com [206.189.46.3]) by mail2.pilot.net with ESMTP id NAA08855 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from mailmand@localhost) by artemis.chiron.com id NAA06041 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.chiron.com(165.140.1.144) by artemis.chiron.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006025; Fri Aug 2 13:09:23 1996 Received: from cc.chiron.com (cc.chiron.com [165.140.1.129]) by hermes.chiron.com with SMTP id NAA00370 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccMail by cc.chiron.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA839016391; Fri, 02 Aug 96 13:01:02 PST Date: Fri, 02 Aug 96 13:01:02 PST From: "John Robertson" Encoding: 36 Text Message-Id: <9607028390.AA839016391@cc.chiron.com> To: SFRaves@hyperreal.com Subject: New Orb CD Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey all, Does anybody know where I can pick up a copy of this ?? Have been looking (in vain) for a while & am about to special order it if necessary. Any pointers would be appreciated !! TITLE: AUNTIE AUBREY'S EXCURSIONS BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY - THE ORB REMIX PROJECT RELEASED BY: DEVIANT RECORDS (e-mail deviant@volume.demon.co.uk) CAT NO: DVNT12CD (for the CD) Also, while I'm here .... Trainspotting Review : Go and see it !! Not as ravey (?) as it could have been but well worth a looksee none the less. Powerful & funny. Brw: (By ra' way) the subtitles in the Volcano club scene were in the original - not added for US consumption !! BrwII: The Volcano is actually a dodgy wee club in Glasgow. Sweatbox ! Amusing story : Met a lady in the bar after seeing the above. She had intended seeing it as well but was thwarted in her ambitions by a dearth of available viewing situations (sold out). Turns out this was the *third* successive day she'd gone to see it and met a similar fate. Hello ?? Is there anybody home ?? I suggested an earlier arrival time for the next day. She seemed quite happy with this advice. I have some friends visiting from Scotland so will hopefully be hitting Chrysalis tommorrow (they may want to be Juggernauted). CU there. Why don't you give the next person you see a big smile ? Have a great weekend & stay safe !! JR From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 13:30:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA14778; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:30:13 -0700 Received: from oldmail.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA14765; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:30:09 -0700 Received: from [205.231.222.75] by oldmail.domain.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:30:07 -0700 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) Subject: Sad News for me & BM Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:30:07 -0700 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I just found out today that I might not get the days off to goto BM 28,29,30 and if I don't go those days I will not be going at all. I just can't justify the drive up there for 1 1/2 days if I can't get weds-fri off. My supervisor will let me know Monday if we can work it. This is all I need, to be stressed over the weekend. This sucks! I was in a good mood until now. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 13:38:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA15902; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:38:30 -0700 Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA15854; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:38:23 -0700 Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA17469; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:38:20 -0700 Received: from hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA07230; Fri, 2 Aug 96 13:38:19 PDT Date: Fri, 2 Aug 96 13:38:19 PDT From: timb@nit.AirTouch.COM (Tim Beauchamp) Message-Id: <9608022038.AA07230@nit.AirTouch.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, SDream@tgrigsby.com Subject: Re: ---> RADIO IDEA<--- Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk SDream wrote: > Jason Green wrote: > > >I've thought of this one before, but it's a no go. > >You can only have 3 watts of amplification before > >the FCC comes down on your ass. 3 watts equals > >about a 2 mile radius. > > Literally, any one transmitter can only have 3 watts. To get around that > you could have multiple transmitters. How serious are you? So, we have a show sent out over the net with a handful of interested people who tie this into their 3 watts transmitter and brodcast it in their little area. Given enough interested people we could have most of the bay area covered. Hell, we could have pockets of coverage all over the world, then we begin sending a subliminal ... Tim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 13:52:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA17444; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:52:18 -0700 Received: from netcom.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA17436; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:52:15 -0700 Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id NAA20922; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:52:12 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:52:12 -0700 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199608022052.NAA20922@netcom.netcom.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-reply-to: <2.2.32.19960802081123.00a0f7dc@pop.sirius.com> (message from Optimal Ping 99 on Fri, 02 Aug 1996 01:11:23 -0700) Subject: Re: Overpopulation (was Re: meat vs. veggies)NRR Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > >> Remember the rat > >> experiments where they were forced to live too many in the cage? The > >> rats ended up killing each other and dying of stress related causes. I > >> think the same thing is happening, to a certain extent, to humans. > > > >A certain HUGE extent. > > for some more overpopulation stuff, check out the church of euthanasia's > home page at > http://www.paranoia.com/coe/ > Also check out Zero Population Growth, Inc.: http://www.igc.apc.org/zpg/ There's quite a bit of good information, particularly if this issue worries you. "Better living through elbow room" Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com ssimitzi@us.oracle.com | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-494-7987 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 13:52:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA17518; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:52:56 -0700 Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA17511; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:52:53 -0700 Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20532; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA839019395; Fri, 02 Aug 96 13:42:19 pst Date: Fri, 02 Aug 96 13:42:19 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9607028390.AA839019395@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re[2]: No Nitrous campaign? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > A friend of mine from back in Ottawa just wrote to me. Apparently >Ottawa is starting to have a problem with nitrous (and an especially large >problem because people are *really* uninformed about it). He said he'd >heard of a campaign down here (in the Bay Area), of flyering raves with >nitrous information, called "No Nitrous". I've never seen any such >flyers, so if anyone can tell me more about this, I'd really appreciate >it. > Thanks... > >: : J. David Lowe Hear that hissing? It's the sound of another powderkeg about to go off... ;) - E Oh... I thought it was my tank leaking (just kidding!). Do what you wanna do. I just wonder why the hell people do it at raves because you almost always end up with a headache, it drains your energy, and it's not conducive to dancing, meeting people, or the all nite journey sensation that for me goes along with rave-type partying. It's not a social drug, rather an intense but VERY short personal voyage. It also fucks up the scene, because : A. The tanks/balloons are really visible B. The people falling on their faces as they let go of their balloons make it look really dangerous. C. Lines of people jonesing for another hit of "hippie crack" D. That low voice when you exhale is too comic. E. Too much money to be made to stay sane. I've seen people make hundreds or even thousands of dollars off of a 30 pound tank. I heard that at a FMG event down south that a nitrous dealer pulled a gun the guy who politely asked them to leave... I won't even get into that. F. I've seen more people 'fishout' (black out and go into spasms) from nitrous than any other drug. G. If Officer Eager pulls you over with a tank, you can't eat the stash. H. Too much nitrous being sold out there is NOT medical grade. I. Cops have been getting a bigger and bigger hard-on for nitrous dealers as people die. In LA just before I moved, two kids died from lack of oxygen sitting in a car with the windows rolled up and a tank with the valve left open. I don't know whether to say "pity", or "duh". I guess I'll say both. I feel sorry for everybody involved on that one... imagine how much the cop who found them dead and blue must love finding nitrous dealers. Probably thinks it was a nitrous overdose rather than an oxygen underdose. I feel it should be kept away from raves, and despite some really cool effort from promoters and the general population, the only way to keep it out is to not buy it if you see it anywhere at a rave. AndyWaWaWaWaWaWaWaWaWaWaWaWaWaWaWaWaWa........... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 14:01:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA18663; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:01:40 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA18645; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:01:35 -0700 Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA20241; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (trose@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA19774; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:55:14 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 13:55:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Anthony Rose To: Tim Beauchamp cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, SDream@tgrigsby.com Subject: Re: ---> RADIO IDEA<--- In-Reply-To: <9608022038.AA07230@nit.AirTouch.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk YES !!!!YES!!!! YES!!!! this is the coolest idea!!!! hook me up with a three watter I'll broadcast!!!! > SDream wrote: > > > Jason Green wrote: > > > > >I've thought of this one before, but it's a no go. > > >You can only have 3 watts of amplification before > > >the FCC comes down on your ass. 3 watts equals > > >about a 2 mile radius. > > > > Literally, any one transmitter can only have 3 watts. To get around that > > you could have multiple transmitters. How serious are you? > > So, we have a show sent out over the net with a handful of interested > people who tie this into their 3 watts transmitter and brodcast it in > their little area. Given enough interested people we could have most > of the bay area covered. Hell, we could have pockets of coverage all > over the world, then we begin sending a subliminal ... > > Tim YES !!!!YES!!!! YES!!!! this is the coolest idea!!!! hook me up with a three watter I'll broadcast!!!! YES !!!!YES!!!! YES!!!! this is the coolest idea!!!! hook me up with a three watter I'll broadcast!!!! -Tony Rose From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 14:10:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA19634; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:10:36 -0700 Received: from bolero.rahul.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA19629; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:10:32 -0700 Received: from [206.61.226.222] (c222.rahul.net) by bolero.rahul.net with SMTP id AA17795 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:10:26 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 14:10:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199608022110.AA17795@bolero.rahul.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: wolfe@rahul.net (Nancy W. Wolfe) Subject: Re: :::> RADIO IDEA<::: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > QUESTION: > why is it that the only 'progressive' music out there is on > espn durning the 'plays of the wee' and in between live 105 > sets? > what would it take to do an unauthorized brodcast > in the bay area? slam down some break-beats and hard house > ...culturize all them folk!@&#@% > > There are tons of stations playing good music!!!!! My school, Foothill College KFJC 89.7 FM in Los Altos Hills is always playing progressive music. Friday nights Mr. Goodwrench plays the best new techno, jungle, acid house, and anything else he feels like from 10-2am. He can't beat match for shit but he's got incredible taste. They have parties up there all the time, in classrooms even!! Mix Master Morris was interviewed on air last time he was here. If you can get it in on your radio it is definitely worth checking out. Other stations: Stanford University 90.1 (mostly dub and hip-hop but there is variety) San Jose State 90.5 (Monday mornings are great) Bereklely 90.7 Hope this has been a little helpful. -Nancy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 15:05:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA24706; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:05:36 -0700 Received: from www.eline.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA24693; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:05:32 -0700 Received: from sfbayguardian.com ([206.15.95.160]) by www.eline.com (8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA03292 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 96 15:11:11 -0800 From: Marco_A._Mancia@sfbayguardian.com (Marco A. Mancia) Organization: The San Francisco Bay Guardian Subject: Friday.......>>>>>>> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: <2649719.ensmtp@sfbayguardian.com> Priority: normal X-Mailer: ExpressNet/SMTP v1.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk It is a beautiful Friday day,,,,,,,,where are we going..............?WWWHeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww ww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent via the Guardian Online. 415.437.3600 N81 or bbs.sfbayguardian.com, 3004 ================================================================================ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 15:08:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA25034; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:08:35 -0700 Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA25029; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:08:33 -0700 Received: from [205.134.228.37] (ppp037-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.37]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id PAA19805 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:07:49 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:07:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199608022207.PAA19805@mail1.sirius.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: natural@sirius.com (Natural) Subject: Your Ninja Top 10 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I want to compile a top 10 for XLR8R of every ones top ten tunes from the ninja Label. Please submit them to the above address and we will print the10 most frequently charted tracks. Darkhorse ___________________________________________________________________ coming this spring from......................MANMADEMEDIA....... the producers of headtravel h e a d t r a v e l : t h e g a r d e n i n g c l u b put it in your stereo for......... An hour of tripped-out,dubbed-up,headphunk.....for headphones and house parties.... Low-slung,well-hung grooves from SKYLAB, Coldcut, Small Fish With Spine, Drome, Cool Breeze,Outside,Glamorous Hooligan, and Extremadura. All continuously mixed, matched and morphed by the gardening clubs resident DJ, Darkhorse. put it in your cd-rom for......... More than you ever really wanted to know about the minds behind the music, including photos, art, comics,interviews, gossip, and occasionally useful information...................... over fifteen custom generated loops of psychedelic quicktime for your viewing pleasure ..............'hemp today', the groundbreaking book on hemp and the environment in digital format for the first time with photography and text by Ed Rosenthal (High Times 'Ask Ed') .............version 2.0 of XLR8R interactive with interviews articles and out-takes from the west coasts premier club culture rag. w w w . m a n m a d e . c o m n a t u r a l m u s i c 1 3 8 8 h a i g h t s t a r e a s e v e n s a n f r a n c i s c o c a 9 4 1 1 7 u s a n a t u r a l @ s i r i u s . c o m w w w . m a n m a d e . c o m t 4 1 5 6 2 6 7 7 0 7 f 4 1 5 6 2 1 6 9 1 3 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 15:25:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA26533; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:25:52 -0700 Received: from inreach.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA26520; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:25:48 -0700 Received: from ppp1124.inreach.com (ppp1124.inreach.com [205.138.245.124]) by inreach.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id PAA15490 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960802222918.2b5fee38@mail.inreach.com> X-Sender: gutman@mail.inreach.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: A-RON Subject: Whas up for the weekend? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Is Chrysalis going to be indoors or outdoors this weekend? I really love the Plurry vibe at Gateway's parties... but I kinda want to go to a huge Massive at least once this summer.. (besides BM if I make it..) Who's going to Juggernaut? Sunset is having a boat party this weekend right? Is anyone going? I think $20 is kinda steep for a Sunday event.. but they have to rent the boat. HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND!! PLUR, Aaron. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 15:45:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA28490; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:45:30 -0700 Received: from xinet.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA28483; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:45:28 -0700 Received: from DialupEudora by xinet.COM via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) id PAA02665; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:45:13 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19960802222918.2b5fee38@mail.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 15:45:09 -0800 To: A-RON , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Tony Rotundo Subject: Re: Whas up for the weekend? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 3:32 PM -0700 8/2/96, A-RON wrote: >Is Chrysalis going to be indoors or outdoors this weekend? I really love Chrysalis will be indoors. TR From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 16:04:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA00343; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:04:50 -0700 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA00335; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:04:46 -0700 Received: (from scarab@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA28389; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:04:43 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: KaySEE To: michal migurski cc: SDream , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Respect? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, michal migurski wrote: > >>plant in some former central american rainforest so fat white trash hicks > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Y'know, you folx might want to watch this kinda of sentiment. It speaks of > >ignorance, hatred, and discrimination. This kind of comment, along with the > >vast assortment of references to inbreeding, stupidity, and slovenliness in > >regards to people from our southern states, is offensive to some. You'd be > >surprised how many people on this list are from the South and proud. > > oh, well I should've chosen my words more carefully, but I didn't say > "southern," I just said "white trash hix." I hope no one's going to rise up > in defense of white trash... ("white trash need our compassion! The low > ratings of the Jeff Foxworthy Show clearly show anti-white-trash > discrimination. The noble white trash once ranged free and unfettered > accross the continent, but now is limited to the 48 continuous United > States. The republicans are trying to take white trash off the endangered > species list? those NAZIS!" =) > > I'm OK with the south. > > I got problems with white trash. > > big difference. You should be careful before you label ANYONE. Like I've said before, it is an easy way to box someone in a category, and then dismiss them. You cease to look at the individual. Michal, you might be surprised that I spent 18 years of my life growing up with what you might call "white trash." Hey, I'm the first person to crack jokes about where I am from, town of 60 people, gun racks, Ford trucks and all. Yeah, lots of people are ignorant and racist from where I'm from. But my family lives there, it is a beautiful place, and it is a part of me. You know me, know how I am. Would you box me into that category? I doubt it. So, just be careful about "who you got problems with!" (but, if you want to hear some good, funny stories about hickville, just ask. There's plenty to fill 10 stereotypes!!:) much respect, KaySEE ****Shit, goddamn, get off your ass and jam**** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 16:09:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA00923; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:09:57 -0700 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA00915; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:09:54 -0700 Received: from uucp1.unix.portal.com (uucp1.unix.portal.com [156.151.4.11]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA10191 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:07:45 -0700 Received: from compattic.com (uucp@localhost) by uucp1.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with UUCP id QAA07226 for Sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:04:19 -0700 From: aguevara@compattic.com (Adam Guevara) Reply-To: aguevara@compattic.com To: Sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Ok, what's REALLY going on??? Date: 02 Aug 1996 23:48:25 GMT Message-Id: <93323230.202629365@compattic.com> Organization: Computer Attic Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, I don't think I want 2 B @ Planet-E (or, is that Club-E) nor the Cannery (ends @ 4AM) tonight. So what's the real 411? Anything else worthwhile tonight or am I just going to stay home and have an imaginary rave while I mix??? "Dance with me..." --Adam ____________________________ Transmitted from Computer Attic SuperCenter: (415) 363-8100 Corporate HQ: (415) 614-7500 ____________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 16:53:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA04708; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:53:38 -0700 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA04668; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:53:29 -0700 Received: from well (cubensis@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id QAA07998 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:53:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:53:25 -0700 (PDT) From: John Bagby Subject: Chrysalis To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ok, I'm convinced! Thanks everyone who took time to recommend a party this weekend. I've got a friend in town, and we're coming to Chrysalis, then to the boat party on Saturday with some other friends. I'd love to meet more sfravers! I don't know what I'll be wearing, cept I have fairly long brown hair and gold round glasses. I'm 6' and I'll be with my buddy Susan who's about 5'6" with long dark hair. Please come say high! ;) peace john From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 16:53:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA04740; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:53:45 -0700 Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA04709; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:53:38 -0700 Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id QAA07080; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608022353.QAA07080@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Rick Riffle Subject: Chrysalis (BSP) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk We heard the ambient room is going to be kinda small, but space permitting, *RE:* will be playing live along with dj'ing from Consciousness Lab Ambient Sound Research. See you there. Rick From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 16:55:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA05050; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:55:54 -0700 Received: from netcom7.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA05041; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:55:51 -0700 Received: (from branka@localhost) by netcom7.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id QAA04806; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:55:33 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 16:55:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Branka Cehic Subject: Re: Astrological signs of sfravers To: Jim Cyr cc: Amy R Starkey , "Eric P. Peterson" , sfraves@hyperreal.com, Czefir@aol.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Me :). *B* On Fri, 2 Aug 1996, Jim Cyr wrote: > OK, Amy, as another of the 'rarities' (Sag) > do we know whot the other 4 are? > jim cyr > > On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Amy R Starkey wrote: > > > > > > The results are in! > > > > > Sagittarius - 6 > > > > > > YAAAY! I like it that I am a rarity! :) > > > > your loving Sag, > > Amy > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 17:08:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA06623; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:08:55 -0700 Received: from locusts.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA06617; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:08:52 -0700 Received: (from dlb@localhost) by locusts.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA13673 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:08:43 -0700 From: "David L. Bayer" Message-Id: <199608030008.RAA13673@locusts.Berkeley.EDU> Subject: Re: hemp/meat/veggies... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 17:08:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "stellar@value.net" at Aug 1, 96 02:50:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 640 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > instead of clearcutting forests for cattle, plant hemp? Nice thought, but any time you replace a native forest with a non-native weed you are doing just about as much good as clear cutting to plant grass to feed cattle except you get a plant that is somewhat more useful (you will of course be pulling more nutrients out of the soil becaue you can use the whole hemp plant and not be leaving shit behind to enrich the soil). Anytime you actually move resources away from where they are, you are greatly changing the balance of an ecosystem. Hopefully, everything including ourselves will be able to adapt to whatever is left... dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 18:07:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA11152; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:07:26 -0700 Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA11147; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:07:23 -0700 Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA19393 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:06:57 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960803010642.009b72d0@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 18:06:42 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "THX1138" Subject: Nikita; 1015 Folsum Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; Our very own Carlos & Hardkiss will be spinning tonight at Nikita. Peace Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 18:12:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA11672; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:12:36 -0700 Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA11667; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:12:33 -0700 Received: from qmgate.corp.apple.com (A17-130-8-42.apple.com [17.130.8.42]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA45472 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:12:48 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 2 Aug 1996 15:03:13 -0700 From: "Mark Camp*" Subject: Sex!!!!!! nrr To: "sfr" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 FC1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ha, Got your attention, Didnt I? :) _________________________________ Sex Laws in the Good 'ol U S of A ¥Adultry is Illegal in 28 States: Alabama, Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Maryland, Massachussetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New hamphire, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin ¥Unmarried Sex is Illegal in 9 States: Georgia, Idaho, Massachussetts, Mississippi, North Carolina, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Virginia ¥Living Together Unmarried is Illegal in 8 States: Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Michigan, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, Virginia ¥Sex/Marriage with 1st Cousin is Illegal in 32 States: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, Neww hampshire, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Utah, Washington, Washington DCk, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming ¥Prostitution is Illegal in all states except Nevada ¥Pornography is Illegal in 28 States: Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, Ohio, Ilahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Texas, Virginia, Washinton, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming ¥Child Pornographhy is Illegal in 36 States: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, California, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachussets, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West. Virginia, Wisconsin ¥Visible Erection Even if Clothed is Illegal in 19 States: Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Massachussetts, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin, Vermont ¥Oral Sex with Opposite & Same Sex is Illegal in 17 States: Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachussetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Washington DC ¥Oral Sex with Same Sex Only is Illegal in 7 States: Arkansas, Maryland, Montana, Missouri, Nevada, Tennessee, Texas ¥Anal Sex with Opposite & Same Sex is Illegal in 15 States: Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Lousiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, RHode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Virginia, Washington DC ¥Anal Sex with Same Sex Only is Illegal in 9 States: Arkansas, Kansas, Maryland, Massechussetts, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, Tennessee, Texas Age of Consent: 13 - 1 State: New Mexico 14 - 3 States: Hawaii, Iowa, Mississippi 15 - 2 States: Connecticut, Virginia 16 - 26 States: Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachussetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington DC, West Virginia 17 - 5 States: Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, New York, Texas, 18 - 10 States: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Tennessee, Utah, Wisconsin _______________________________________ /-M-\ !E.A.C! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 18:15:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA11905; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:15:46 -0700 Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA11895; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:15:43 -0700 Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA19636 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:15:19 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960803011504.00a0ce58@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 18:15:04 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "THX1138" Subject: ewwwwwww Friday Night Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; Hmmmm, lets see there's either a gansta rave to go to, Planet E. Or Chemical Daze, hmmmmm are they going to have free Heroin there due to the celebration of Trainspotting? = > Peace Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 18:29:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA12997; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:29:06 -0700 Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA12991; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:29:03 -0700 Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:35:45 -0700 X-Sender: ambient@netcom13.netcom.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9607028390.AA839016391@cc.chiron.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:29:23 -0700 To: SFRaves@hyperreal.com From: Joe Rice Subject: Re: New Orb CD Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 2:01 PM -0700 8/2/96, John Robertson wrote: > Hey all, > > Does anybody know where I can pick up a copy of this ?? Have been > looking (in vain) for a while & am about to special order it if > necessary. Any pointers would be appreciated !! > > TITLE: AUNTIE AUBREY'S EXCURSIONS BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY - THE ORB > REMIX > PROJECT > RELEASED BY: DEVIANT RECORDS (e-mail deviant@volume.demon.co.uk) CAT > NO: DVNT12CD (for the CD) It's just out the past week or so - for stuff like this your best bet is Mod Lang in Berkeley, on University between Shattuck and Oxford. Or try Rasputin's (who've just hired Markus of Hedquarters as their techno buyer which is a good sign) Joe (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 18:40:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA13755; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:40:52 -0700 Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA13749; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:40:48 -0700 Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA20427 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:40:25 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960803014010.00a0bd98@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 18:40:10 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "THX1138" Subject: Re: Respect? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; Yeah, yeah, I get no respect, no respect I'll tell ya. I was sitting @ Thursdaze last night, good crowd kinda young, but good never the less. This guy comes walking up to me and starts talking to me. In the conversation he basically told me that he felt that I was stuck up, because I kinda hung out by myself and didn't really talk with anyone; no respect what did I tell you. Well my response to him was, yeah I'm either stuck up, or I'm sitting on something soooooo good that I don't want to tell anyone about it, or share for that matter. Well, I immediately got his attention and we talked a little more and he left feeling good, as well as me. Ya know ya never know, when you see that shy person in the corner, are they shy?, are they famous?, are they stuck up?, or are they totally hooked up and protecting themselves from all da sharks out there? ; you never know until you ask, it's just your imagination until then no matter how clear something may appear to you. We spend a lot of time up in our imaginations. In massage school my classmates and I did a lot of work on this very thing. It's a simple exercise, called I observe, I imagine. Observations are whatever you see, smell, feel ...etc the senses, your IMAGINATION is what you do with that data. Ok here's an example, your sitting on the bus across from an old man. You see the man rubbing his face, and you say I observe him rubbing/scratching his face, I imagine his faces itches. But until you actually go up and ask him, no matter how sure you are what he is doing, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW, it's in your IMAGINATION. Try this with a friend, sit across from each other and take turns observing the other person, and try and guess. But you will find all you are doing is guessing, because we can't read other peoples minds, though often including myself are very guilty of this. Thought for food, peace and see ya at Nikita Tonight. Peace Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 18:41:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA13840; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:41:04 -0700 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA13796; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:40:59 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA24822 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:40:57 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby.vip.best.com (tgrigsby.vip.best.com [205.149.169.221]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA02262 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:40:51 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:40:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199608030140.SAA02262@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Mark Camp informed us that: >Child Pornographhy is Illegal in 36 States: *ONLY* 36 states??!! >Age of Consent: > >13 - 1 State: New Mexico >14 - 3 States: Hawaii, Iowa, Mississippi >15 - 2 States: Connecticut, Virginia >... You've GOT to be kidding... 13?! For crying out loud, I don't know about you, but I didn't know the first thing about sex or adult relationships or anything of that nature at !!13!! There's something seriously wrong there... If I ever have a daughter, she's not allowed to come out of her room between the ages of 12 and ... oh... 28.... S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 18:49:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA14596; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:49:59 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA14588; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:49:56 -0700 Received: from wck-ca9-02.ix.netcom.com (shawna-@wck-ca9-02.ix.netcom.com [204.31.231.98]) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA22171 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:49:21 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:49:21 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960801185342.33bf9534@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: shawna-@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "hey, where am I?" Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Noted that while oral sex with the opposite sex is illegal in Mississippi, child pornography is legal (along with the age of consent being 14). Guess I know where I'm not taking my (future) kids on vacation... -shawna Do not go gently into that good night! Rave! Rave into the dawning of the light! * * * * * * * * * * * * * \|/ * * * * --O-- * * * /|\ * \O/ | _____/_\_____ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 18:50:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA14664; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:50:28 -0700 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA14659; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:50:25 -0700 Received: from heald.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbbch05584; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hat71 (hat84.hayward.heald.edu) by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17229; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:55:29 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:55:29 -0700 Message-Id: <9608030155.AA17229@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Aryck Subject: Anyone up for Planet E??? I'll take ya, if you aren't too far away. Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm at school right now (Heald), but I'll be home about 11 or so. If anyone feels like going but doesn't have a ride, mail me back, or leave a message on my machine at (510) 276-3743. I want to go but I have no one to go with. To all who dance tonight, have fun, drink plenty of fluids, and boogie down funky mammajammas. . . or whatever. Loves ya Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 19:00:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA15398; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:00:47 -0700 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA15392; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:00:44 -0700 Received: from heald.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbbci06340; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hat71 (hat84.hayward.heald.edu) by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17363; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:05:48 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:05:48 -0700 Message-Id: <9608030205.AA17363@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jay Wiley From: Aryck Subject: Re: meat vs. veggies Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 09:03 AM 7/31/96 -0700, you wrote: >okay, just a quick little question. This isn't really meant to be taken too seriously >but it is a possibility. :) > >Some one said killing animals and eating them is bad Karma, and a lot of you seem >to feel sorry for the animals. Now me being the meat eater that I am and having the >vegetarian girlfriend that I do, I have thought about this a little. > >What about killing the poor innocent plants?? Could they not in some way that we >don't understand have feelings too. Just because we can't communicate with them in >any way doesn't mean they do not feel pain. > >just a thought. :) > >jay > > You can't really say if people were meant to eat meat, or vegetables. We do what we do. Do you think the early cavepeople played loud dance music and danced around till the wee hours of the morning, do you think that they occasionally indulged in E, Acid, or whatever else. People can do whatever they want. We weren't MEANT for anything, that's why we're sooooo versatile, so we have choices in our paths. Right???? BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP! Not burp, but burrrrrup! Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 19:01:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA15485; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:01:30 -0700 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA15478; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:01:26 -0700 From: stellar@value.net Received: (from stellar@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA10331; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:01:24 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:01:23 -0700 (PDT) To: THX1138 cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Respect? In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960803014010.00a0bd98@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk projection, or intention? that is the question. although you really cannot be sure, i have experienced many times things that i can only call psychic experiences, and im sure the others sharing this would concurr. i mean, among like minded, open people under the right circumstances, enough empathy is generated as to produce a like or group mind, where, well, im not totally sure of this, but it felt like we all were really aware of what the others were feeling/thinking, and that my *projections* were indeed programming to an extent the others' intentiions, etc. and although we all never said anything, im sure we were all mutually aware. my .02 kevin ;) On Fri, 2 Aug 1996, THX1138 wrote: > Dear All; > > Yeah, yeah, I get no respect, no respect I'll tell ya. I was sitting > @ Thursdaze last night, good crowd kinda young, but good never the less. > This guy comes walking up to me and starts talking to me. In the > conversation he basically told me that he felt that I was stuck up, because > I kinda hung out by myself and didn't really talk with anyone; no respect > what did I tell you. > > Well my response to him was, yeah I'm either stuck up, or I'm > sitting on something soooooo good that I don't want to tell anyone about it, > or share for that matter. Well, I immediately got his attention and we > talked a little more and he left feeling good, as well as me. > > Ya know ya never know, when you see that shy person in the corner, > are they shy?, are they famous?, are they stuck up?, or are they totally > hooked up and protecting themselves from all da sharks out there? ; you > never know until you ask, it's just your imagination until then no matter > how clear something may appear to you. > > We spend a lot of time up in our imaginations. In massage school my > classmates and I did a lot of work on this very thing. It's a simple > exercise, called I observe, I imagine. Observations are whatever you see, > smell, feel ...etc the senses, your IMAGINATION is what you do with that data. > > Ok here's an example, your sitting on the bus across from an old > man. You see the man rubbing his face, and you say I observe him > rubbing/scratching his face, I imagine his faces itches. But until you > actually go up and ask him, no matter how sure you are what he is doing, YOU > JUST DON'T KNOW, it's in your IMAGINATION. > > Try this with a friend, sit across from each other and take turns > observing the other person, and try and guess. But you will find all you are > doing is guessing, because we can't read other peoples minds, though often > including myself are very guilty of this. > > Thought for food, peace and see ya at Nikita Tonight. > > Peace > Brian > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 19:05:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA15786; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:05:33 -0700 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA15781; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:05:30 -0700 Received: from heald.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbbci06700; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hat71 (hat84.hayward.heald.edu) by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17423; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:10:35 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:10:35 -0700 Message-Id: <9608030210.AA17423@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" From: Aryck Subject: Re: hello world! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 08:49 AM 8/2/96 -0700, you wrote: >... we interrupt the current round of infighting to bring you a word from >our sponsor.... > >hello world! i hope your day is treating you well (you need to treat it >well, first), as i know mine will. i'm in one of those really happy moods. >why? 1)i went out dancing with sarah aberant to natural last night, and >that was fun, 2)my roommate, who was studying for the bar exam, is now gone >(try living with someone studying for the bar. good, dont!), 3) i'm looking >foreward to dinner with friends both tonight and tomorrow night, and >4)chrysalis! > >so, other than that, i have ABSOLUTELY nothing to be happy about! love to >you all, and i hope you treat your day well! > >love- > >matt l > > > Luv ya back, buddy! Give yerself a big wet one for me. Or just hug yerself, but don't get out of hand. SMILE Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 19:11:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA16252; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:11:11 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA16244; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:11:08 -0700 Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id TAA03140; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:11:05 -0700 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id TAA10888; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:11:04 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:11:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Ack!!! To: sfraves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Stuck in Santa Cruz with nothing to do. (sigh) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 19:17:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA16648; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:17:20 -0700 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA16639; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:17:16 -0700 Received: from heald.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbbcj07403; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hat71 (hat84.hayward.heald.edu) by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17545; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:22:17 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:22:17 -0700 Message-Id: <9608030222.AA17545@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: "Mark Camp*" From: Aryck Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 03:03 PM 8/2/96 -0700, you wrote: >Ha, Got your attention, Didnt I? :) > >_________________________________ >Sex Laws in the Good 'ol U S of A > >=A5Adultry is Illegal in 28 States: > >Alabama, Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Maryland, Massachussetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New hamphire, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin > But they still do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >=A5Unmarried Sex is Illegal in 9 States: > >Georgia, Idaho, Massachussetts, Mississippi, North Carolina, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Virginia > Some people just have problems! >=A5Living Together Unmarried is Illegal in 8 States: > >Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Michigan, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, Virginia > Why get married when you can live together for FREE!!! >=A5Sex/Marriage with 1st Cousin is Illegal in 32 States: > >Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, Neww hampshire, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Utah, Washington, Washington DCk, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming > UH OH. . .wait, nevermind. >=A5Prostitution is Illegal in all states except Nevada > Because nevada's police have nothing better to do. Not much crime! >=A5Pornography is Illegal in 28 States: > >Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, Ohio, Ilahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Texas, Virginia, Washinton, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming > But that's where all those people have sex with their cousins, and other relatives. >=A5Child Pornographhy is Illegal in 36 States: > >Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, California, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachussets, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West. Virginia, Wisconsin > NAMBLA. . . Ever notice how all those guys look alike, hairy as hell everywhere but their head, fat, wearing suits. Damn churches do it to ya. >=A5Visible Erection Even if Clothed is Illegal in 19 States: > >Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Massachussetts, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin, Vermont > Don't you hate when your girlfriend gets arrested for that! >=A5Oral Sex with Opposite & Same Sex is Illegal in 17 States: > >Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachussetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Washington DC > Really, and I got my tongue pierced for nuthin then, there goes that dream vacation to Dry Gulch, just a half hour up Shit Creek in Alabammer. >=A5Oral Sex with Same Sex Only is Illegal in 7 States: > >Arkansas, Maryland, Montana, Missouri, Nevada, Tennessee, Texas > MMMHHMMMMMMMMMM? Lots of homosexual law makers. >=A5Anal Sex with Opposite & Same Sex is Illegal in 15 States: > >Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Lousiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, RHode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Virginia, Washington DC > But then, how does the President get his????? >=A5Anal Sex with Same Sex Only is Illegal in 9 States: > >Arkansas, Kansas, Maryland, Massechussetts, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, Tennessee, Texas > >Age of Consent: > >13 - 1 State: New Mexico >14 - 3 States: Hawaii, Iowa, Mississippi >15 - 2 States: Connecticut, Virginia >16 - 26 States: Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachussetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington DC, West Virginia >17 - 5 States: Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, New York, Texas,=20 >18 - 10 States: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Tennessee, Utah, Wisconsin >_______________________________________ > > /-M-\ >!E.A.C! > > > Whoa!!! Cool. Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 19:18:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA16745; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:18:20 -0700 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA16729; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:18:15 -0700 Received: from heald.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbbcj07454; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hat71 (hat84.hayward.heald.edu) by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17551; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:23:20 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:23:20 -0700 Message-Id: <9608030223.AA17551@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "THX1138" From: Aryck Subject: Re: ewwwwwww Friday Night Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 06:15 PM 8/2/96 -0700, you wrote: >Dear All; > > Hmmmm, lets see there's either a gansta rave to go to, Planet E. Or >Chemical Daze, hmmmmm are they going to have free Heroin there due to the >celebration of Trainspotting? = > > >Peace >Brian > > > Doesn't trainspotting have its own Rave celebration??? Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 19:20:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA16898; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:20:34 -0700 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA16893; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:20:31 -0700 Received: from heald.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbbcj07719; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hat71 (hat84.hayward.heald.edu) by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17580; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:25:35 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:25:35 -0700 Message-Id: <9608030225.AA17580@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: geoffw@cybertribe.com (Geoff White) From: Aryck Subject: Re: Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 11:38 AM 8/2/96 -0700, you wrote: > >finger fmr@nexsys.net > > > Yeah who's lost. . . . Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 19:21:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA16970; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:21:34 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA16958; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:21:30 -0700 Received: from (ascend@sjx-ca72-28.ix.netcom.com [207.92.177.156]) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA09600 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:20:57 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:20:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199608030220.TAA09600@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> From: ascend@ix.netcom.com (Gregory Sandler ) Subject: (NRR) I would just like to tell everyone... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I HATE NETCOM (NETCRUISER)!!!! (sorry for the bad vibes, but sometimes you just have to blow off steam!) Greg :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 19:28:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA17505; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:28:12 -0700 Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA17500; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:28:08 -0700 Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA21755; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:27:44 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960803022638.00d7eedc@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 19:26:38 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "THX1138" Subject: Life In Berlin Cc: Ulrike Laitko Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; My girlfriend just wrote me, and said she was going to Goa Gill, & Juno Reactor tonight. I rather be in Berlin, have a good time luv. = >!!!!! Peace & Love Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 19:33:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA17864; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:33:42 -0700 Received: from emout18.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA17838; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:33:35 -0700 From: Clarityi@aol.com Received: by emout18.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA12863 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:32:07 -0400 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 22:32:07 -0400 Message-ID: <960802223206_170667487@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Chrysalis this Saturday!!! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This Saturday August 3rd, Gateway Systems happily presents Chrysalis... with Alex, John Carel, James Dee, Minor Minor, and Deaks! Ambient Bliss with Consciousness Lab Ambient Sound Research, Claire, and Rob. This event will be in San Fancisco in a new location! There will be free breakfast with juice, muffins, and fruit. Please call 415.536.9453 for directions. Tickets are $15. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 20:00:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA20010; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 20:00:53 -0700 Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA20004; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 20:00:50 -0700 Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA22701 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 20:00:28 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960803025920.00679010@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 19:59:20 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "THX1138" Subject: Opps, I Forgot I'm Supposed To Invite You All To..... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; Opps, I Forgot I'm Supposed To Invite You All To Costume Party Tonight. Interested SFRavers should contact me at 800-590-4993 asap. One little catch, you must dress up as an EVIL DO'ER. I will entertain bringing along those boring people who refuse to dress up. I'm going in full bondage attire myself, so where black if at anything at all, just think goth. The music & artwork will be diversified, so lots of everything. Call before 10pm, as I will starting calli you back with the details after that. Peace Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 20:30:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA22496; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 20:30:23 -0700 Received: from acorn.ousd.k12.ca.us by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA22488; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 20:30:17 -0700 Received: from [198.94.64.221] by acorn.ousd.k12.ca.us with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0umXPp-006fLsC; Fri, 2 Aug 96 20:30 PDT Date: Fri, 2 Aug 96 20:30 PDT Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Moander Subject: Ride for Shine, desperate! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk If anyone in the bay area would like to give me and a friend a ride to Shine, bless him or her forever! It's not very far from any bart but it's impossible to get to without a car! Please, if anyone has two spaces in their car and is wants a little good company, call me at 1-510-655-8369... Moander From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 21:05:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA25004; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:05:47 -0700 Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA24997; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:05:44 -0700 Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id VAA10123; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:05:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Karen Hardie Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr To: Mark Camp* cc: sfr In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk a visible erection is illegal in 19 states?? man, either guys there wear baggy pants, have no imagination in public, or get a LOT of fines :) pounce ----------------------------------------------- ... -listen: there's a hell of a good universe next door; let's go - e.e. cummings From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 21:06:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA25097; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:06:13 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA25082; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:06:10 -0700 Received: from (rlunatic@sjx-ca35-03.ix.netcom.com [204.31.236.131]) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA23845 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:05:37 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:05:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199608030405.VAA23845@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: rlunatic@ix.netcom.com (Adam Luong) Subject: Re: Whas up for the weekend? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk A-RON wrote: > >Who's going to Juggernaut? > I'll be at Juggernaut! =)~ Look for me! I think you all know what I look like by now.. I'll be hanging around CTD-Zine and my fellow glowstick dancers.. Adam R.Lunatic From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 21:15:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA25795; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:15:34 -0700 Received: from aurora.engr.latech.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA25789; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:15:30 -0700 Received: (from araya@localhost) by aurora.engr.latech.edu (8.6.11/8.6.8) id XAA28682 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:15:22 -0500 From: Alex Araya Message-Id: <199608030415.XAA28682@aurora.engr.latech.edu> Subject: Set Digest.... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:15:21 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22.4] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 139 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Could some one help me on how to set my subscription to Digest. I'm getting about 1,000,000,000,000.73 letters per day. Thanks ALex. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 21:22:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA26248; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:22:47 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA26241; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:22:44 -0700 Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id VAA08277; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:22:40 -0700 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id VAA13309; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:22:40 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 21:22:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: PARTY ALERT To: sfraves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all! Here's the deal: I need a ride to SF (from Santa Cruz). In return I can get one (maybe two) people in to Juggernaught for free if they are willing to help set up (tear down help would be nice also). We should be in SF at noon on Saturday. Ideally I would like to take up some equipment, not too much - mostly slide projectors and exstension cords. So a big vehicle is not essiential (some room would be good, an empty trunk?) Please call or write ASAP if interested: first come, first served. I hope everyone's weekend is simply fabulous, =) Ran -=*=- ~ hm # (408)427-1666 wk #, 1-5pm M-W (408)459-4421 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 23:11:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA03123; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:11:45 -0700 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA03117; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:11:43 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA02482 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:11:40 -0700 Received: from [206.86.235.114] (lesliea.vip.best.com [206.86.235.114]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA07066 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:11:33 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:11:33 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lesliea@best.com (Leslie Ayres) Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Wow, thank god and thank you, I thought I had dropped into the twilight zone for a while here .... I mean, debates about whether it's better for you to be vegetarian (duh! really?), and then going off on poor white trash (allow me to introduce you to my 10th generation Tennessee hillbilly family sometime) ... but finally, something worth thinking and talking about! Hoooeeeyy!! I was doing fine until I got to here .... >Age of Consent: > >18 - 10 States: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, New >Hampshire, New Jersey, Tennessee, Utah, Wisconsin ^^^^^^^^^^ ooops. Leslie ; ) See ya'll at Chrysalis, hear? No hot dog breath pleeze. XXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX -O- -- [8 ._. 8] . _____. . \___/ . From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 23:25:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA04112; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:25:37 -0700 Received: from mail-gw.fsr.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA04103; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:25:34 -0700 Received: from Maxine.lewiston.com (ppp221.lewiston.com [204.227.174.221]) by mail-gw.fsr.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA04292 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:41:10 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:41:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199608030641.XAA04292@mail-gw.fsr.net> X-Sender: tuskluv@mail.lewiston.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Wowser Subject: mind....body Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The MIND is the alter. The BODY is the temple. Troy J. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 23:44:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA05402; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:44:53 -0700 Received: from ultima.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA05396; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:44:46 -0700 Received: from ultima.org by ultima.org; Fri, 2 Aug 96 23:45 PDT Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960803064309.29a7a1c6@ultima.org> X-Sender: freakz@ultima.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 224 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 23:43:09 -0700 To: Randy C Cone From: Freak Zone Subject: Re: Ack!!! Cc: sfraves Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 07:11 PM 8/2/96 -0700, Randy C Cone wrote: > >Stuck in Santa Cruz with nothing to do. (sigh) > Thats why I don't live there anymore :) -Sean F R E A K Z O N E ! "House music all night long..." (415) 227-7421 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 23:45:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA05464; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:45:33 -0700 Received: from ultima.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA05458; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:45:29 -0700 Received: from ultima.org by ultima.org; Fri, 2 Aug 96 23:45 PDT Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960803064315.35aff4d6@ultima.org> X-Sender: freakz@ultima.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 626 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 23:43:15 -0700 To: David Lowe From: Freak Zone Subject: Re: No Nitrous campaign? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 11:42 AM 8/2/96 -0700, David Lowe wrote: > > A friend of mine from back in Ottawa just wrote to me. Apparently >Ottawa is starting to have a problem with nitrous (and an especially large >problem because people are *really* uninformed about it). He said he'd >heard of a campaign down here (in the Bay Area), of flyering raves with >nitrous information, called "No Nitrous". I've never seen any such >flyers, so if anyone can tell me more about this, I'd really appreciate >it. > Thanks... I love gasssssssssssssssssss! Zoink out! -Sean F R E A K Z O N E ! "House music all night long..." (415) 227-7421 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 23:52:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA05751; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:52:05 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA05745; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:52:02 -0700 Received: from (puff2@sjx-ca79-06.ix.netcom.com [206.214.106.198]) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA06326 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:51:28 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:51:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199608030651.XAA06326@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: puff2@ix.netcom.com (Mike Wall) Subject: WESTGATE S.J. house party---NO BUSTS-only burning houses! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello All SF Rave kiddies.. We (Ace+Mike E on steel wheels..) Yes It Is A 200% location----I (mike) am moved out except for my fishtanks / couch / tv/snes w/mk3/tstreetfighter/whatever... theres some games, nice ambient mood / Sweet Grooves Burnin' Down Da' House!! It is a REAL good time regardless... kegz optional(call first-or aRRive and see whats in store for all you). SF Ravers interested in a spiritual BOMB, or just having a ??? time , at the expense of $5 and kegz/ other resources remain to be seen... Come In Peace... or Don't Come At All.... at the least, a sure location(at a moderate/med. high groove zone level insured, allthough neighbors must be respected for their tolerance& are THE ONLY consideration for going ALL OUT!!@!@!!! Please be aware that this house may be in flames by the time you arrive ..... so please call after 3am to insure that 50-70 person??? allowance is reasonable for this one bedroom gig to keep on Rockin'.... PLUR....Mike... puff2@ix.netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Aug 2 23:56:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA06008; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:56:23 -0700 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA05999; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:56:20 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA19752 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:56:17 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 23:56:17 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lowe To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: ---> RADIO IDEA<--- In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On 2 Aug 1996, Jason Green* wrote: > Hey, man... I've thought of this one before, but it's a no go. You can > only have 3 watts of amplification before the FCC comes down on your > ass. 3 watts uals about a 2 mile radius. There's a station here in San > Jose, but 2 miles? What's the point? A whole 20 people, MAYBE, could > pick it up. You know what sucks though? LA has thier own dance music > station - run and funded by Moonshine Records. They play a wide variety > of dance - EVERYTHING. NO GRUNGE! WOO HOO! Sure, there's bad dance > music, but there's also A WHOLE LOT of good dance music. The concept > itself rocks. Maybe someday. I think we've all have secret Pump Up The > Volume fantasies.... Just my $0.02 _jason_ Okay, I checked with a number of people on this. No one was too sure about the maximum power of a transmitter allowable for unlicensed broadcasts. However - there is currently a gray area, wherein you can work. Here's the story: The FCC won't accept license applications for under 100watt stations. So when they tried to go after Free Radio Berkeley, the court ruled in favour of FRB, saying the FCC couldn't go after smaller broadcasters unless they were given the chance to broadcast with a license. Thus, you have a legal precedent for running a pirate radio station of up to 100watts (approx 1 mile per watt, roughly) without getting in trouble. If on the other hand you choose to broadcast illegal or particularily subversive material, you might be in a different sort of trouble. On the other hand, for a music station, the precedent might hold up well. Also (I am told, by folks experienced in the field), there are almost never jail terms for illegal broadcasters. Usually just an equipment confiscation, sometimes as much as a fine. Interesting stuff... (BTW this is all FM. I know zip about AM.) : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : :"Time never started at all. Chaos never died. The Empire was never: : founded. We are not now & never have been slaves to the past or : : hostages to the future." -Hakim Bey, /T.A.Z./ : : : : : : : : : : finger for pgp key and geek code : : : : : : : : : From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 03:12:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id DAA25620; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 03:12:00 -0700 Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id DAA25607; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 03:11:57 -0700 Received: from [192.215.97.128] (h97-128.ccnet.com [192.215.97.128]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id DAA06322 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 03:11:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: marcy@host.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 03:14:34 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: marcy@elusive.com (Marcy Swenson) Subject: Juggernaut Festival website is up! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk If you're interested in more info on Space Children's Juggernaut Festival this weekend, check out their recently updated website... http://www.spacechildren.com There are 5 rooms, each with a different type of music: * intelligent/progressive/techno/acid * experimental/instrumental/dub * breaks/house/happiness * goa/trance/techno * jungle/drum & bass and live performances by: kenny larkin, barada, freaky chakra, velocette, beyond race, glimmer of dope, the higher consciousness, keyser soze meets the cyclops, code iv, ceiba. Jeepers! --marcy _________________________________________________________________________ Marcy Swenson 415.695.9471 marcy@elusive.com fax.695.9466 _________________________________________________________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 04:42:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id EAA01379; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 04:42:31 -0700 Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id EAA01374; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 04:42:29 -0700 Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA1770; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 04:42:06 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960803114104.00a80924@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 04:41:04 -0700 To: Freak Zone From: "THX1138" Subject: Re: No Nitrous campaign? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; Nitrous has been linked to sterility in young adult male, & female persons. Repeated long term exposure to this gas has a VERY HIGH PROBABILITY OF MAKING THE RECIPIENTS STERILE. Ask your dentist if you doubt my words. There is an especially high risk for people, like dental assistants who are PASSIVELY around the gas in the work place. I will pose the ? if there is a very high risk for people who are just PASSIVELY around the gas; what is the risk involved for those actively breathing it over long periods of time? Especially low grade gas(non-medical; not fit for human consumption) usually found at raves & Grateful Dead concerts. Peace Brian ps Sorry to burst your balloon, pun intended At 11:43 PM 8/2/96 -0700, you wrote: >At 11:42 AM 8/2/96 -0700, David Lowe wrote: >> >> A friend of mine from back in Ottawa just wrote to me. Apparently >>Ottawa is starting to have a problem with nitrous (and an especially large >>problem because people are *really* uninformed about it). He said he'd >>heard of a campaign down here (in the Bay Area), of flyering raves with >>nitrous information, called "No Nitrous". I've never seen any such >>flyers, so if anyone can tell me more about this, I'd really appreciate >>it. >> Thanks... > > > >I love gasssssssssssssssssss! > > >Zoink out! > > >-Sean > > > F R E A K Z O N E ! > "House music all night long..." > (415) 227-7421 > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 08:11:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA12123; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 08:11:59 -0700 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA12116; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 08:11:56 -0700 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA22554; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 08:11:54 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 08:11:54 -0700 (PDT) To: THX1138 cc: Freak Zone , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: No Nitrous campaign? In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960803114104.00a80924@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Aug 1996, THX1138 wrote: > Dear All; > > Nitrous has been linked to sterility in young adult male, & female > persons. Repeated long term exposure to this gas has a VERY HIGH PROBABILITY > OF MAKING THE RECIPIENTS STERILE. Ask your dentist if you doubt my words. > There is an especially high risk for people, like dental assistants who are > PASSIVELY around the gas in the work place. And this is a bad thing? Time to go down and buy a couple of tanks... ;-) Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 09:27:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA17254; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 09:27:06 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA17248; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 09:27:03 -0700 Received: from si.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id JAA24264; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 09:26:59 -0700 Received: by si.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id JAA05434; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 09:26:59 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 09:26:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Ran is happy. :) To: sfraves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all! Well, a ride came through (again!) at the last minute and it looks like I'll be helping the Mantra crew at Juggernaught. YIPPEE!!! =) I really hope all is well for everyone and that everyone has a smashing good time tonight. For future thought; I may be in this same situation (needing a ride for me and some equipment) every weekend until the end of summer (and longer?) at least until I buy my own vehicle (soon oh soon). Driver of course gets in free but will usually need to provide some assistance setting up. A ride back to Santa Cruz the next day is pretty key also. If anyone is interested please contact me. Vehicle should be a van, truck with shell or similar. I'm very flexible and the perks can be interesting. May the dance floor rise to greet your feet, Ran -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 10:41:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA21476; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 10:41:05 -0700 Received: from crl.crl.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA21469; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 10:41:03 -0700 Received: by crl.crl.com id AA27147 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for sfraves@hyperreal.com); Sat, 3 Aug 1996 10:35:38 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 10:35:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Ankrum To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: New York, New York? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi All, I just got the good news that I have to go to New York, starting next weekend, for a business trip. I'll be there from Saturday, August 10, through Wednesday, August 14. Now, here's the OBRave: do any of you have suggestions for must-go-to parties, clubs, shops, restaurants, galleries, etc.? I'd really love to see the scene there...any ideas you have would be very much appreciated. Thanks. :) Kathryn From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 11:13:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA23958; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:13:11 -0700 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA23939; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:13:07 -0700 Received: from natasha.ricochet.net (mg131-107.ricochet.net [204.179.131.107]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA10246 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:13:02 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960803180624.006ade9c@best.com> X-Sender: mdpkl@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 11:06:24 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" Subject: who's going to chrysalis tonight? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hello all- who's going to chrysalis tonight? i know i'm going, shawna's going, and i'm bringing 2 newbie friends. anyone else? love- matt l From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 11:18:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA24359; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:18:33 -0700 Received: from netcom18.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA24353; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:18:31 -0700 Received: (from branka@localhost) by netcom18.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA09371; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:18:29 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:18:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Branka Cehic Reply-To: Branka Cehic Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr To: Mark Camp* cc: sfr In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I lived in VA for 5 1/2 years (came there as an exchange student last year of high school). That year we had a cop come to school and talk about different laws. Not having sex before marriage was one of the topics (also any other position but missionary is illegal as well in VA). The reason they still have those laws is because it would cost them too much money to change them... Nobody gives you tickets or anything like that. In college the health center gives away free condoms and they put you on the pill no problem. So, it's just one of those silly laws. Just wanted to inform ppl who thought that was an inforced law :). Hugz - see some of you at Chrysalis. Branka From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 11:39:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA26743; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:39:44 -0700 Received: from orion.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA26733; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:39:41 -0700 Received: (from saberant@localhost) by orion.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id LAA23073; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:39:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:39:32 -0700 (PDT) From: SARAH ABERANT X-Sender: saberant@orion To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: SHINE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk just wodering if any of you could give two friendly chaps a ride to this party. we live in sf and our ride just flaked on us :) we'd be happy to help out with gas money and all that. thanx *hugs* sarah From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 11:45:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA27057; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:45:14 -0700 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA27052; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:45:10 -0700 Received: (from sandoz@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id LAA08801; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:45:04 -0700 (PDT) From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG X-Sender: sandoz@pluto To: Rick Riffle cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: RE: meat vs. veggies In-Reply-To: <199608011731.KAA12295@franc.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Yes, I am saying that being a vegiterian diet is un-healthy. We, as a race were concdieved as meateaters (which includes fish and sea-food) therefore we need meat. It's a bit like asking a lion to go vegan. There is countless fossil evidence, going as far back as Lucy, that shows that how we survuved on the plains was by using our hands to use a stone to hit the bones of dead animals and extracting the marrow from it. Sure we eat plants and fruits as well but meat was the main stapple of our of our diet. Haven't you ever seen 2001? Man learned (or was taught, depending on how you want to look at it) to kill, he eat what he killed and he survived and we are here today. Then one day, about thirty years ago, some brilliant person came up with the idea that there was a whole untapped market out their and called it vegerterianism. It was a real winner: the emerging psuedo left-wing group were lining up for shit like this because at last they had found something that was truely alternative. All these people had to do was find a few obscure, but prominet scientists to back up their claims, shoow examples of the very few cults around the world that do not (which is not to say they don't eat meat) kill and wallah! The industry that was vegiterianism was born making billions and billions every year selling us stuff that we don't really need. And we've fallen for it and should know better. Tristan. On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, Rick Riffle wrote: > > >From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG[SMTP:sandoz@sfsu.edu] > > >you should > >become vegiterian which is, as I have already stated earlier, a very > >unhealthy diet to have. > > I may be missing the context here, (I missed your first post about it), but > are you really saying you think a vegetarian diet is unhealthy? That > statement is crazy. I'm not trying to flame you, but I would like to know > your justification. Thanks. > > Rick > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 11:56:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA28086; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:56:51 -0700 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA28076; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:56:46 -0700 Received: (from sandoz@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id LAA09405; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:56:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 11:56:35 -0700 (PDT) From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG X-Sender: sandoz@pluto To: KaySEE cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Food For Thought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Competely right 100%. Could not have said it better myself. Tristan. On Thu, 1 Aug 1996, KaySEE wrote: > Here's a thought for everyone in relation to our current veg/meat thingee: > > Name a country outside of the industrial world (especially the U.S.) that > is rich enough to provide a healthy year-round *vegan* (not just > vegetarian) diet. You'll be hard pressed to find one. > > The Third-World lacks the resources to provide the required food > year-round that a healthy vegan diet requires. Milk and eggs are usually > a necessary supplement. > > So, eating *vegan* in the U.S. is actually quite a luxury. > > > the devil's advocate, > > KaySEE > > ****Shit, goddamn, get off your ass and jam**** > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 12:54:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA02182; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 12:54:09 -0700 Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA02175; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 12:54:05 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 12:54:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Behlendorf To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Burning Man 1996? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 2 Aug 1996 19:40:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Smith To: wicked@wicked.com, oo@organic.com, cc@cyborganic.net, SF Raves Subject: Burning Man 1996? Please email me if you can answer YES to the following two questions: 1. Are you going to Burning Man 1996? 2. Do you know the name Underground Resistance? If yes to both, please email fixer@cyborganic.net -- fix.er \'fik-s*r\ n : one that fixes : as : one that intervenes to enable a person to circumvent the law or obtain a political favor : one that adjusts matters or disputes by negotiation From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 13:05:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA03048; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 13:05:12 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA03043; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 13:05:09 -0700 Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA07562; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 13:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.74.237] (abrams2b.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.74.237]) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA25321; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 13:01:46 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 13:09:13 -0700 To: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" From: bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Brian Denny) Subject: Re: who's going to chrysalis tonight? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 11:06 AM 8/3/96, matthew d. p. k. lanier wrote: >hello all- > >who's going to chrysalis tonight? i know i'm going, shawna's going, and i'm >bringing 2 newbie friends. wanna make it 3? i've been lurking on sfraves for about a week, and the more i read the more i want to go. not knowing anyone is a bit daunting, and i'm still a little confused about the mechanics of getting there (pardon my newbie naivete...) i'd really like to meet some of you ppl, the netvibes are making me feel good already :-) peace, brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 16:53:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA18118; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 16:53:59 -0700 Received: from acorn.ousd.k12.ca.us by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA18112; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 16:53:57 -0700 Received: from [198.94.64.202] by acorn.ousd.k12.ca.us with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0umqW1-006fGpC; Sat, 3 Aug 96 16:53 PDT Date: Sat, 3 Aug 96 16:53 PDT Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Moander Subject: ride to jugg? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk If anyone is still out there, and lives anywhere in the bay area, me and my friend desperately need a ride to the jugg-fest... Good vibes and gas money included, please call at 415-621-7624... Moander From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 17:07:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA19213; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:07:02 -0700 Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA19187; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:06:54 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:06:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Behlendorf To: Aryck cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Why was I un-subscribed??? In-Reply-To: <9607310619.AA28400@heald.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Aryck wrote: > For some reason, this weekend, someone somehow unsubscribed me. I didn't > check my mail all week (could that do it?), I didn't do anything bad, (I > don't think), and I don't see why it happened. I seem to remember mail to your account had been bouncing for a few days.... For the record, the only time I (the list admin) remove people is when mail starts bouncing from their site, and bounces more than just a couple of times. Because this list is so high volume and thus the amount of "bounce" messages are likewise so high, my tolerance is somewhat low for system problems and such... and I also don't save bounce messages so I can't show you why you were unsub'd. The most common occurances I see are full mailboxes - aol and netcruiser people are particularly guilty. :) Anyways, just remember to never take accidental unsubscribing personally; if you go so much as a day without mail you should figure something might be wrong. :) Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 17:07:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA19304; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:07:27 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA19290; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:07:24 -0700 Received: from v-site (ameba.ameba.com [205.162.25.65]) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA24494 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:06:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3203E98E.2233@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 17:06:38 -0700 From: abema Organization: ameba X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Sunset Boat Party!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello Everyone, If anyone is interested in having some fun on the bay tomorrow, there is a Sunset Party on a boat!! DJS will be: SPUN GALEN SOLAR MONTY PIERRE MOYLAN and FREAKY CHAKRA LIVE!! The Boat will leave at 6:00 pm from pier 41. There is a cash bar of various drinks as well as free organic food. Tickets are $20 due to the expensive boat and are on sale @ Ameba haight @ cole Primal Records Berkeley For more info call: 415-985-5264 THANKS, HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE!! PACIFIC SOUND From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 17:47:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA22473; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:47:22 -0700 Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA22463; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:47:17 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 17:47:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Behlendorf To: "SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey'" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Mixtape Area on Hyperreal???? In-Reply-To: <199607300509.WAA04657@lettuce.salinas.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 29 Jul 1996, SpinSilver--'Robertj@Monterey' wrote: > Hey Brian......Robertj,down in Monterey. Not getting up as much anymore, but > I am mixing at home and trading for tapes. I've found some other lists that > have Mixtapte areas so people can trade mixtapes. What are you thoughts, or > how could I help to initiate one? Sorry for the delay... I'm cc'ing this to SFRaves since the discussion never seemed to close there. I would be comfortable with having hyperreal host a page and a CGI script or two whose purpose was to allow DJ's to post information about tapes they are willing to sell to the public; but I'm not quite ready to create a mixtape area where people who buy DJ tapes can connect to copy those tapes with others. I'm fine if it happens informally on the list, I can't really control that and wouldn't want to anyways, but formally hosting a service like that I'm sure would put me in hot water, if not with the copyright police than at least with other DJ's. Those are my thoughts... Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 18:19:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA24913; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:19:01 -0700 Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA24903; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:18:58 -0700 Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA29301 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA10239; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:13:26 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:13:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: The Union Street Bar Scene, a review To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Decided last night to venture out into the real world, see how others spend their weekend party nights. So, with some NRR friends, I trekked out to the mythologized "Triangle" area of San Francisco. I had heard that there were "cool bars" along this stretch of Union Street, with lots of young people, all smashed as hell and happy. Friday night, already drinking as the sun goes down. A few more beers and we were ready to hit the scene. Now, I know alcohol is controversial in some rave quarters, and I think we're all pretty much in agreement as to the effect widespread drinking would have on our scene, but going out drinking with friends can be a _total_ blast. However, there must be cooler bar scenes than this, especially in San Francisco! Okay, I'm pretty prejudiced, but the Triangle looks like the Gap exploded. It's where ex-Greeks go to die. Everyone was young, white, Marina district aspiring yuppies, overdressed in overpriced clothes, and eyeing everyone else. The bars screamed with the noise of dozens of drunk people; people pushed passed others roughly; if you met anyone's eyes it was a come-on. Forget smiling, unless you want to go home with someone. A good friend of mine, a non-raver, bar junkie, said to me that the key was just to stay with your group, having a great time with them, and ignore the crowd and scene around you. That sort of statement comes as a shock to me, after two years raving. I _expect_ differently, even out in the world, even in a pick-up bar. I wanted to connect with the people there, have a mutual experience, even just some friendly vibes, but in this context connection is only for the purpose of hooking up. And that's cool if that's what someone wants, but to consider the Triangle and the adventures it offers as fun for a typical Friday night - the prospect of that as one's usual party plans is too depressing for me! By 12 we were super-smashed, and wanted to dance. Along the way we found Pierce Street Annex. A two-dollar cover got us into a packed bar with a teeny, packed dance floor. Worn-out hip-hop blared - Tone Loc, 2 Live Crew - interspersed with some 70's disco. The music, so familiar to me, just sounded dead. No innovation, nothing new and creative and stimulating. For the Union Street party crowd they spun played-out music, and it was like something stale and lifeless. It was hard to dance to (I'm used to just a little faster BPM!), but the couples on the floor (ONLY couples dancing!!) just swayed, hands grabbing at each other. The low point for me was when the sexist song, "you ain't nothin but a hootchie mama" came on. Telling women you're worth nothing, except perhaps if you're sexually attractive to the pig screaming out the mysoginistic lyrics (whose own attractiveness to you is immaterial). When it came on a great cheer of delight went up from the crowd, and everyone (including enthusiastic women) screamed along with the words. Whew. All-in-all, though, a great night with fun had by all, each in their own worlds of their own friends, mate, or hook-up of the evening. My friends and I were going _off_. But this great individual fun all takes place in one of the strangest atmospheres I've ever been in. And what made it all the stranger was that no-one else seemed to find it strange! Woke up with a hang-over :P. It is weighing on my head as I contemplate heading out to Chrysalis tonight. Raving to me is special, and with so many fucking great parties that I couldn't miss, I've just been doing too much of it lately! But the dissatisfactions of last night (especially dancing!) left a yearning for a redemption of this week-end...But who knows, maybe a good night's sleep will be it. Perhaps see you all tonight?! If I do go, I'll wear my SFR laminate, and some silly get-up. :) Have wonderful fun whatever you do!! Peace, Nancy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 18:34:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA26049; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:34:25 -0700 Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA26039; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:34:22 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:34:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Behlendorf To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Request for calendar info (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Derek, you should have known better than to use a word like "svbscribe" without replacing the "u" with a "v". :) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 13:08:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek Chung To: SF Raves Subject: Request for calendar info Hi everyone, After more than four years on sfraves, and getting 1500 messages behind, I've had to unsvbscribe from the main list. I'm going to be out of town for a week and really busy at work in the near future, so I don't think I'll be able to catch up. When things let up I may be able to resvbscribe. Anyway, I will still maintain the calendar, but I need a volunteer to forward event info from sfraves to me (at dhchung@hyperreal.com). I get a lot of info from other people via email already, and other stuff from flyers, but there are still a few events a week which get posted to sfraves but don't get sent to me directly. Sometime in the near future I'm also going to have a form on the web for entering events, or work on integrating with GRID on hyperreal. So are there any volunteers? The volunteer should be someone who keeps up with sfraves and doesn't get way behind like I have been. Thanks, Derek From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 18:34:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA26100; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:34:43 -0700 Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA26095; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:34:40 -0700 Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA01949; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:34:37 -0700 Received: from hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA13444; Sat, 3 Aug 96 18:34:36 PDT Date: Sat, 3 Aug 96 18:34:36 PDT From: timb@nit.AirTouch.COM (Tim Beauchamp) Message-Id: <9608040134.AA13444@nit.AirTouch.COM> To: silver@salinas.net, brian@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Mixtape Area on Hyperreal???? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Brian Behlendorf wrote: > I would be comfortable with having hyperreal host a page and a CGI script > or two whose purpose was to allow DJ's to post information about tapes > they are willing to sell to the public; but I'm not quite ready to create > a mixtape area where people who buy DJ tapes can connect to copy those > tapes with others. I'm fine if it happens informally on the list, I can't > really control that and wouldn't want to anyways, but formally hosting a > service like that I'm sure would put me in hot water, if not with the > copyright police than at least with other DJ's. It seems to me unless the DJ gets permission (to redistribute for a profit) for all the songs they have on their tape, they're breaking copyright law by selling those tapes whereas anybody who has such a tape and trades with another is doing no worse (and possible doing not as bad since they're not making a profit--of course the owners of the copyright might be as unhappy about it). The problem you describe is only an issue when the DJ has all the appropriate permissions (the rarity I believe), they then are protected and trading their tapes might not be cosher. Of course, if the purpose of these tapes is for promotion and not profit then people trading tapes should be looked upon favourably. If, on the other hand, the DJs are looking to make a profit with all this, they should be getting all the appropriate permissions and shouldn't be writing for promotion only on their tapes. Merely my take on the legality of such--I'm all for a location to buy, sell, trade all of the above. Tim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 19:10:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA28888; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 19:10:59 -0700 Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA28883; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 19:10:56 -0700 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp044-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.44]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id TAA15138 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 19:10:15 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960804021324.008a253c@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 19:13:24 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Shelf Life 99 Subject: Re: Request for calendar info (fwd) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk really. majordomo won't go for that v stuff. :) >Derek, you should have known better than to use a word like "svbscribe" >without replacing the "u" with a "v". :) >>After more than four years on sfraves, and getting 1500 messages behind, >>I've had to unsvbscribe from the main list. I'm going to be out of From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 20:35:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA05095; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 20:35:53 -0700 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA05089; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 20:35:50 -0700 Received: from natasha.ricochet.net (mg128-51.ricochet.net [204.179.128.51]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA17600 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 20:35:46 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960804032904.006b33c8@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: shawna-@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 20:29:04 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "hey, where am i?" Subject: whoa weird! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey all! Definitely weird to be typing this out from what *looks* like my account, but it's really Matt's account, cleverly disguised! Well it's soon time for Chrysalis, hope to see many of you there. Look for me in my Silver outfit, and I've dragged out my bright green feather boa! (thanks for reminding me of my boa, Nancy!) Wheeee! Anyway, I'm sitting here in SF getting ready to go, really looking forward to it. And that's about it! If you see me come say hi! I'll be there with Matt Lanier. Love, Shawna matthew d. p. k. lanier thinker, trained belly-button lint technician 415-752-3218 mdpkl@best.com http://harker.coolware.com/matthew/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS/MU/SS d? s:++ a-- C++++$ UBS$>++ P$>+++ L !E--- W$>+++ !N !o K++++ w--- !O- M-- !V PS+++>$ PE>$ Y+>$ PGP>$ t++ !5 X+++ !R tv b? DI++ !D---- G e++$ h-- r? y ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ "the instant you let something other define your reality, whether the other be a person, organization, object, or religion, you have died. the instant you realize that you have complete control over your reality despite (or because of) your circumstances, you have resurrected." me, july 19, 1996 --------------------------------------Oooo.--------------------------------- .oooO ( ) "IN SERVING OTHERS... ( ) ) / WE BECOME FREE" \ ( (_/ \_) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Aug 3 21:07:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA06910; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:07:21 -0700 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA06903; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:07:18 -0700 Received: from natasha.ricochet.net (mg128-51.ricochet.net [204.179.128.51]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA19379 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 1996 21:07:12 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960804040029.006c644c@best.com> X-Sender: mdpkl@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 03 Aug 1996 21:00:29 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" Subject: we have a celebrity in our midst! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hello all- i just found out that the well known and loved Shawna (hey, where am i?) is a member of Dogbert's new ruling class. if you don't know what that is, you shall perish. love, raving, and dilbert- matt l matthew d. p. k. lanier thinker, trained belly-button lint technician 415-752-3218 mdpkl@best.com http://harker.coolware.com/matthew/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCS/MU/SS d? s:++ a-- C++++$ UBS$>++ P$>+++ L !E--- W$>+++ !N !o K++++ w--- !O- M-- !V PS+++>$ PE>$ Y+>$ PGP>$ t++ !5 X+++ !R tv b? DI++ !D---- G e++$ h-- r? y ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ "the instant you let something other define your reality, whether the other be a person, organization, object, or religion, you have died. the instant you realize that you have complete control over your reality despite (or because of) your circumstances, you have resurrected." me, july 19, 1996 --------------------------------------Oooo.--------------------------------- .oooO ( ) "IN SERVING OTHERS... ( ) ) / WE BECOME FREE" \ ( (_/ \_) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 08:45:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA25018; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 08:45:53 -0700 Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA25011; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 08:45:51 -0700 Received: from post-awful.apple.com (post-awful.apple.com [17.255.0.17]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA13332 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 08:45:01 -0700 Received: from [17.202.40.154] (hahnbr.apple.com [17.202.40.154]) by post-awful.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14136 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 08:46:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199608041546.IAA14136@post-awful.apple.com> Subject: Chrysalis Date: Sun, 4 Aug 96 08:41:48 -0000 From: Anarch To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk My ears are fine, but my feet are ringing. Cool. anarch@scruznet.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 10:19:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA00486; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:19:09 -0700 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA00478; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:19:04 -0700 Received: (from sandoz@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id KAA25608; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:18:59 -0700 (PDT) From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG X-Sender: sandoz@pluto To: abema cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Sunset Boat Party!!! In-Reply-To: <3203E98E.2233@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Does anybody know what peir the boat is leaving from and at what time? Called the voice mail but it did not say. Can you help? Tristan. On Sat, 3 Aug 1996, abema wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > If anyone is interested in having some fun on the bay tomorrow, there is > a Sunset Party on a boat!! > > DJS will be: SPUN > GALEN > SOLAR > MONTY > PIERRE MOYLAN > and > FREAKY CHAKRA LIVE!! > > The Boat will leave at 6:00 pm from pier 41. > There is a cash bar of various drinks as well as free organic food. > > Tickets are $20 due to the expensive boat and are on sale @ > > Ameba > haight @ cole > Primal Records > Berkeley > > For more info call: 415-985-5264 > > THANKS, HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE!! > > PACIFIC SOUND > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 10:45:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA02143; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:45:59 -0700 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA02127; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:45:54 -0700 Received: from well (surfpunk@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id KAA08042 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:45:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Cyr Subject: Sincere Thanks :) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The River would like to thank the really nice group of people who came out to Pt Molate for "Shine" - it was really an exceptional group of open hearted individuals Special thanks to David for sharing his exceptional sound system with us Amazingly, there wasn't a scrap of garbage left behind. Look for us at Burning Man and for an all-night full moon beach party in early autumn. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 10:48:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA02364; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:48:25 -0700 Received: from mail-e2b-service.gnn.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA02358; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 10:48:22 -0700 Received: from 40-92.client.gnn.com. (40-92.client.gnn.com [205.188.40.92]) by mail-e2b-service.gnn.com (8.7.1/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA20761 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 13:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199608041747.NAA20761@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com> X-Mailer: GNNmessenger 1.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 08:41:19 From: ravebabe@gnn.com (Carol Saldana) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Rise and Shine SF ravers Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good Sunday morning sfravers, rise and shine! Looking for posts on Chrysalis! Heard rumours it was in San Rafael (thats up were I'm at). Chris and I did the "Shine" party yesterday and it was terrific fun! Loved Jim Cyr's set. Very beautiful fairytale trance:) I woke up this morning feeling pretty sore, guess I just danced way too hard, bummer.ha ha Anyway, looks to be a very beautiful day today. Have a lovely Sunday sfravers and daydream happy thoughts:) Suggestions for the day: Meditate and kind words to your fellow other half! XX OO miss ravebabe From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 11:07:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA03826; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:07:35 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA03820; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:07:32 -0700 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id LAA01593; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:07:29 -0700 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id LAA03532; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:07:28 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:07:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Subject: Re: ---> RADIO IDEA<--- To: "bowowow yippee yo yippee yay...." cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199608021831.LAA01002@shellx.best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Literally, any one transmitter can only have 3 watts. To get around that > you could have multiple transmitters. How serious are you? > > S ...I'm Liquid's best friend / girl friend and I know that we are pretty serious about something like this. ...I'm tired of having to shell out $$ to hear music I like ...DAMIT, the radio has to get it together ...would ya be interested in participating?! ;) MHg ___________ ___________ | _____ | | _____ | | [_____] | -={ RaVe On }=- | [_____] | | __ | | __ | | (__) | | (__) | ^ | | | | ^ \ | _____ | ^ ^ | _____ |/ <-- | / \ | / \ | / \ |--> <--^-- | | | | ---* 0 *---| | | | --^--> <-- | | (_) | | \ /-\ /| | (_) | |--> / | | | |_______==___==_______| | | |\ * | \_____/ | | \_____/ | * |___________|____|_____|_____|____|___________| \ o / \ / |__ o _ | ___\o | o/ o/__ /\ / \ /) | /o\ / ) | (\ / | o ) O/ < \ /\- -| /\O/ _/\ /\ /|_ \\ / / / / // ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- ) ______ ___ _________ ) ( ___ |/ /______ _______ /______ ________ ___ _____ ( ) __ /|_/ / _ __ `/_ __ / _ __ `/__ __ `__ \_ _ \ ) ( _ / / / / /_/ / / /_/ / / /_/ / _ / / / / // __/ ) ) /_/ /_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___/ ) ( ( ) ______ ___ mhg@cats.ucsc.edu ) ( ___ |/ /_____ ___________________ _______________ __( ) __ /|_/ / _ _ \__ ___/_ ___/_ / / /__ ___/__ / / /) ( _ / / / / __/_ / / /__ / /_/ / _ / _ /_/ / ( ) /_/ /_/ \___/ /_/ \___/ \__,_/ /_/ _\__, / ) ( /____/ ( ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 11:28:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA04399; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:15:46 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA04391; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:15:43 -0700 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id LAA01793; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:15:39 -0700 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id LAA03654; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:15:39 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:15:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Subject: Re: ---> RADIO IDEA<--- To: Tim Beauchamp cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, SDream@tgrigsby.com In-Reply-To: <9608022038.AA07230@nit.AirTouch.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Tim > ...your idea sounded good...do ya think we could pull it off? ___________ ___________ | _____ | | _____ | | [_____] | -={ RaVe On }=- | [_____] | | __ | | __ | | (__) | | (__) | ^ | | | | ^ \ | _____ | ^ ^ | _____ |/ <-- | / \ | / \ | / \ |--> <--^-- | | | | ---* 0 *---| | | | --^--> <-- | | (_) | | \ /-\ /| | (_) | |--> / | | | |_______==___==_______| | | |\ * | \_____/ | | \_____/ | * |___________|____|_____|_____|____|___________| \ o / \ / |__ o _ | ___\o | o/ o/__ /\ / \ /) | /o\ / ) | (\ / | o ) O/ < \ /\- -| /\O/ _/\ /\ /|_ \\ / / / / // ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- ) ______ ___ _________ ) ( ___ |/ /______ _______ /______ ________ ___ _____ ( ) __ /|_/ / _ __ `/_ __ / _ __ `/__ __ `__ \_ _ \ ) ( _ / / / / /_/ / / /_/ / / /_/ / _ / / / / // __/ ) ) /_/ /_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___/ ) ( ( ) ______ ___ mhg@cats.ucsc.edu ) ( ___ |/ /_____ ___________________ _______________ __( ) __ /|_/ / _ _ \__ ___/_ ___/_ / / /__ ___/__ / / /) ( _ / / / / __/_ / / /__ / /_/ / _ / _ /_/ / ( ) /_/ /_/ \___/ /_/ \___/ \__,_/ /_/ _\__, / ) ( /____/ ( ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 11:31:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA05427; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:31:25 -0700 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA05420; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:31:22 -0700 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id LAA02247; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:31:19 -0700 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id LAA03827; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:31:18 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:31:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "-=]madame mercury[=-" Subject: ---> RADIO IDEA<--- To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ****************************************************************************** YES! The time has come for ravers to unite and stop the maddness of the shitty music era and free our ears of radio pollution! It is time for the house, break beats, trance, ambient, hard core... to enter our ears, minds, and bodies in the comfort of our own homes! ****************************************************************************** REMEMEBER: It has been said that there is more power in #'s! ****************************************************************************** ___________ ___________ | _____ | | _____ | | [_____] | -={ RaVe On }=- | [_____] | | __ | | __ | | (__) | | (__) | ^ | | | | ^ \ | _____ | ^ ^ | _____ |/ <-- | / \ | / \ | / \ |--> <--^-- | | | | ---* 0 *---| | | | --^--> <-- | | (_) | | \ /-\ /| | (_) | |--> / | | | |_______==___==_______| | | |\ * | \_____/ | | \_____/ | * |___________|____|_____|_____|____|___________| \ o / \ / |__ o _ | ___\o | o/ o/__ /\ / \ /) | /o\ / ) | (\ / | o ) O/ < \ /\- -| /\O/ _/\ /\ /|_ \\ / / / / // ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- ) ______ ___ _________ ) ( ___ |/ /______ _______ /______ ________ ___ _____ ( ) __ /|_/ / _ __ `/_ __ / _ __ `/__ __ `__ \_ _ \ ) ( _ / / / / /_/ / / /_/ / / /_/ / _ / / / / // __/ ) ) /_/ /_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/ /_/ \___/ ) ( ( ) ______ ___ mhg@cats.ucsc.edu ) ( ___ |/ /_____ ___________________ _______________ __( ) __ /|_/ / _ _ \__ ___/_ ___/_ / / /__ ___/__ / / /) ( _ / / / / __/_ / / /__ / /_/ / _ / _ /_/ / ( ) /_/ /_/ \___/ /_/ \___/ \__,_/ /_/ _\__, / ) ( /____/ ( ->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->->- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 11:49:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA06511; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:49:21 -0700 Received: from dfw.dfw.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA06485; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 11:49:17 -0700 Received: from localhost by dfw.dfw.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05553; Sun, 4 Aug 96 13:48:03 CDT Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 13:48:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Aleph One To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Rabbit on the Moon Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, I'am back after being away for 2 weeks. My poor mail box got overflowed since I havent read mail since. As part of my trip I was in Vegas this past weekend. They have a weekly called Utopia saturday nights on a club called Epicenter. Lucky for me it was across the street from my hotel. We walked in expecting just to hear some techno and to leave early. Oh, how wrong I was. I asked the girl selling the tickets who was spinning and she said a DJ from Florida, another one from SD, and finally a live performance by Rabbit on the Moon. Let me tell you, this is been one of the most spectacular live shows I ever seen. The music is just awsome, and there was this man that kept comming on stage with the most incredible customes you can imagine. I cant even beging to describe them. If you ever have the chance just go see them. BTW, hello once again to you wonderful people. Aleph One / aleph1@dfw.net http://underground.org/ KeyID 1024/948FD6B5 Fingerprint EE C9 E8 AA CB AF 09 61 8C 39 EA 47 A8 6A B8 01 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 13:27:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA13872; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 13:27:48 -0700 Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA13865; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 13:27:43 -0700 Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id NAA24525; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 13:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 13:27:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Karen Hardie Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr To: Branka Cehic cc: Mark Camp* , sfr In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ah those awesome laws that no one has money to change :) we have two that come to mind: you can't tie your horse for longer than half an hour in Gastown (one of our communities) and women can't show their ankles on English Bay! pounce ----------------------------------------------- ... -listen: there's a hell of a good universe next door; let's go - e.e. cummings From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 13:43:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA14828; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 13:43:02 -0700 Received: from emout19.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA14816; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 13:42:59 -0700 From: KarenK420@aol.com Received: by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA05231 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 16:45:18 -0400 Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 16:45:18 -0400 Message-ID: <960804164518_252616182@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Juggernaut Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey all, what's up? It's a beautiful day out today. What's there to do for people who can't afford to take a nice sunset cruise? Any outdoor activities going on today? So, I was just wondering who stayed for Juggernaut Festival last night. My friends and I went to check it out, but weren't too pleased with what we were encountered with. We arrived at the 18th & Illinois location at the time when the party was still being set up. One section was open to us, and it was a hassle to get inside. Then when we got in (anyone could have gotten in for free, 'cuz we saw people all around us handing each other used tickets). I was so appalled by the manner of some of those so called "ravers". It was more like a drug dealing session. Walking in a party, it's a slight turnoff to have a bunch of 17 year olds practically yelling out drugs to sell to young innocent kids who haven't the slightest idea what's being pushed in their faces. We were literally walking through a tunnel of people saying, "E, E, Acid, Liquid, Shrooms, E, Doses, etc, etc. Every name that you could think of. This wasn't supposed to be a dealer's market. I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone out there, but it was just so surprising seeing how many young people are out there at these parties just to make money. If any of you stayed past 2:00, was it worth the $25? I'd like to think differently, but as of now, I won't go to a party that charges more than $15. I really hate to be negative, but I had to voice my opinion. I just miss feeling the good vibes, good feelings, smiling faces, hugging arms. That's what every party should be like!! Peace.... Karen From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 14:23:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA18360; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:23:45 -0700 Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA18344; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:23:41 -0700 Received: from [157.22.222.199] (playstation.soma.net [157.22.222.199]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA04994 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199608041546.IAA14136@post-awful.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:16:34 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Rusty H. Hodge" Subject: Fish Markets Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Did anyone notice that last nights 2 big parties (Juggernaut and Chrysalis) were both next to fish markets? What does this mean? There are no coincidences. -- Rusty Alleged Participant, Burning Man http://www.soma.net/bm/ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 14:31:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA18949; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:31:18 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA18941; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:31:16 -0700 Received: from (rlunatic@sjx-ca22-03.ix.netcom.com [204.30.65.99]) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA12535; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:30:41 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:30:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199608042130.OAA12535@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> From: rlunatic@ix.netcom.com (Adam Luong) Subject: Re: Juggernaut To: KarenK420@aol.com Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: > >I really hate to be negative, but I had to voice my opinion. I just miss >feeling the good vibes, good feelings, smiling faces, hugging arms. That's >what every party should be like!! > Ditto.. Juggernaut Sucked. Adam From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 14:55:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA20668; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA20661; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA31355 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.74.237] (abrams2b.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.74.237]) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA15148 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:50:19 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:57:48 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Brian Denny) Subject: Chrysalis (newbie perspective) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk god, what can i say... chrysalis last night was my first rave... won't be my last. just blown away. more positive energy than i've ever seen in one place. i could feel it everywhere, all around me, positive, loving, electric energy. from hand lotion to hugs, personal contact so wonderfully natural, two (or three or four or five) people feeling the energy and love of the whole place in- between their fingertips... smiling at people, they smile back. you both know how happy you are and positive energy dances in the air between you. the music. the music! my god... i'd liked what i'd heard of techno, etc. (which wasn't that much) but this stuff was just incredible. and it just kept getting better and better. in other settings i'm often reluctant to dance, but with the music and the people and the vibe, my body became one with the beat... it was great! nothing i say can describe how i feel but i think you all know... thank you everyone on this list for being such a great community, i'm happy to have joined you... thank you to all those who responded to my newbie queries the other day, you made me feel welcome here... and an extra special THANK YOU to matt l. and shawna who personally introduced me to my first rave and took it upon themselves to make sure i had a great time. i love you guys. feeling plurry, brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 14:55:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA20704; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA20696; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:55:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA18341; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:23:40 -0700 X-Received: from [157.22.222.199] (playstation.soma.net [157.22.222.199]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA04981 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:09:57 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Rusty H. Hodge" Subject: Re: ---> RADIO IDEA (Reality Check) ReSent-Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 14:55:16 -0700 (PDT) ReSent-From: Brian Behlendorf ReSent-To: sfraves@hyperreal.com ReSent-Message-ID: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk First things first. If the FCC decides to harass you, they are legally empowered to sieze your broadcasting equipment. This will include your turntables and tape recorders as well as the transmitter. Be prepared to deal with this. (Or keep the decks away from the transmitter!) > The FCC won't accept license applications for under 100watt stations. >So when they tried to go after Free Radio Berkeley, the court ruled in >favour of FRB, saying the FCC couldn't go after smaller broadcasters >unless they were given the chance to broadcast with a license. This was a preliminary injunction against the FCC. > Thus, you have a legal precedent for running a pirate radio station of >up to 100watts This is still up in the air (no pun intended). Hopefully, you don't want to spend as much in legal fees as FRB has to prove their point. (FYI, I believe that there should be an unlicensed part of the broadcast spectrum for low power local broadcasters...) >(approx 1 mile per watt, roughly) without getting in >trouble. ??? Where do you come up with that figure? If that was true, I'd be able to pick up almost any commercial station across the country. Antenna design, Antenna Height, surrounding terrain make all the difference in the world. >If on the other hand you choose to broadcast illegal or >particularily subversive material, you might be in a different sort of >trouble. On the other hand, for a music station, the precedent might hold >up well. The important thing to remember here is that your station MUST NOT cause any interference to a licensed station. The second you do, they will be after you. And you should know that a lot of commercial broadcasters have had legitimate complaints about pirate broadcasters with noisy/distorted signals (the RF - radio frequency part is noisy, causing interference to other stations. The audio can still sound fine if the RF is noisy). If you want to legal scoop on unlicensed transmitters, read the FCC's regulations, "part 15" which covers unlicensed transmitters. If you want information on buying an inexpensive commercial grade transmitter, check out this ad I scanned from the classifieds of a Broadcast engineering magazine... http://www.soma.net/xmtr/ -- Rusty Hodge http://www.hodge.com Hodge [Interactive] Productions 801 Minnesota Ave. Studio 9 San Francisco CA 94107 tel +1.415.826.9500 fax +1.415.641.7773 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 16:54:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA29868; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 16:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA29861; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 16:54:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA11851; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 16:54:40 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 16:54:40 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lowe To: "Rusty H. Hodge" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: ---> RADIO IDEA (Reality Check) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Aug 1996, Rusty H. Hodge wrote: > > Thus, you have a legal precedent for running a pirate radio station of > >up to 100watts > > This is still up in the air (no pun intended). Hopefully, you don't want to > spend as much in legal fees as FRB has to prove their point. (FYI, I > believe that there should be an unlicensed part of the broadcast spectrum > for low power local broadcasters...) I'm glad someone cleared this up for me. As I mentioned, all of this was 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge to me, I have not looked into any of the legal stuff myself. > ??? Where do you come up with that figure? If that was true, I'd be able to > pick up almost any commercial station across the country. This was just my understanding (I did say roughly, right :) based on rather limited experience, and a few conversations with people in pirate radio. Didn't mean to be spewing misinformation, sorry :)... I should have upt some "as far as I know" disclaimers in there... Oh well! : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : : Every picture tells a LIE! : : - The Schwa Corporation : :: fingerprint: 1F E7 D3 24 04 18 72 67 CC E6 66 1B 79 79 CB 3A :: From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 17:44:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA03905; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 17:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA03899; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 17:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.15.68.135] (sf-tty36-ppp.well.com [206.15.68.135]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id RAA13521 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 17:44:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: leftjab@mail.well.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 17:52:31 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: leftjab@well.com (leftjab) Subject: cannibis buyer's club bust Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk bad news, folks . . . according to KRON's news update, police confiscated 40 LBS. of herb from the cannibis buyer club's hq in sf, and altho not interested in prosecuting members who get herb for medicinal purposes, they want to get at the people selling to the club, who they believe also sell to regular folk . . . people we know work for the club, and we should give them all our support in this most critical time in their history don't go down quietly -- i think i read at chrysalis last night (btw, it was amazing) that the statewide medical marijuana initiative qualified for the Nov. ballot (Prop 215?), and probably the powers that be are striking now before there is a chance for the people to disagree . . . and let's hope juries will treat medicinal growers like medicinal users, and not convict peace, leftjab From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 19:55:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id TAA13838; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 19:55:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccnet4.ccnet.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA13832; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 19:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inanna.ccnet.com (h97-167.ccnet.com [192.215.97.167]) by ccnet4.ccnet.com (8.7.1/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA19628 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 19:55:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3205624E.615@ccnet.com> Date: Sun, 04 Aug 1996 19:54:06 -0700 From: Diana Greer Organization: The Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b4Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SF Raves Mailing List Subject: Anyone into Mantra tonight? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey Kids, Mantra, Anyone? D. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 20:14:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id UAA15184; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orion.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA15176; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from saberant@localhost) by orion.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id UAA12080; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 20:14:33 -0700 (PDT) From: SARAH ABERANT X-Sender: saberant@orion To: Diana Greer cc: SF Raves Mailing List Subject: Re: Anyone into Mantra tonight? In-Reply-To: <3205624E.615@ccnet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk HEY DIANA GIRLY, i'll be there!! no better way to end the weekend then with a night of goa. :) sarah On Sun, 4 Aug 1996, Diana Greer wrote: > Hey Kids, > > Mantra, Anyone? > > D. > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 21:11:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA19253; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA19243; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA28972 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:11:34 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:11:34 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lowe To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: test - ignore Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk testing : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : :"Time never started at all. Chaos never died. The Empire was never: : founded. We are not now & never have been slaves to the past or : : hostages to the future." -Hakim Bey, /T.A.Z./ : :: fingerprint: 1F E7 D3 24 04 18 72 67 CC E6 66 1B 79 79 CB 3A :: From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 21:33:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA20682; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom14.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA20672; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ccat@localhost) by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id VAA21388; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:33:23 -0700 From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont) Message-Id: <199608050433.VAA21388@netcom14.netcom.com> Subject: NRR:URGENT! PLEASE READ. To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 21:33:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear list members, I just picked up a flyer in the castro giving the following information. An "out of sf" team headed by Pete Wilson and Dan Lundgren has just busted the "cannabis buyers club", an organization that helps provide medicinal marijuana to dying AIDS patients, (marijuana is one of the only drugs that helps them keep their appetite, etc.) There will be a protest tomorrow, at 8:30 AM at Castro and Market, plus there will be a hearing at 1:30 pm at Courtroom 1A, (Judge Cahill) Dept 8 at 850 Bryant, tomorrow (Monday) I know this isn't rave related, but I think this is important. The people who receive their cannabis from the Cannabis Buyers Club are all sick or dying. This is a cheap shot by some very unsavory political characters. I'm sure that there will be other protests, There may be one going on right now in the 1400 block of Market (the CBC site) If you live near there, it might be worth checking out. IMHO Wilson is the worst governor this state has ever had. PROTEST! -Chris Beaumont From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Aug 4 23:05:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id XAA28382; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 23:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA28373; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 23:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id XAA26459; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 23:04:58 -0700 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id XAA06016; Sun, 4 Aug 1996 23:04:57 -0700 Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 23:04:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Juggernaut (long and slightly biased) To: KarenK420@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <960804164518_252616182@emout19.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Aug 1996 KarenK420@aol.com wrote: > So, I was just wondering who stayed for Juggernaut Festival last night. My > friends and I went to check it out, but weren't too pleased with what we were > encountered with. Well, Dionysus Dreams was there providing a slide show and supplemental lighting for the Mantra room. Natrually I have a bias on this event. I think that while the overall event was flawed, the Mantra crew pulled together (under less than ideal conditions!) one of the more amazing "rooms" I've ever seen. San Francisco Acid was well represented by that room!!! The room was PACKED all night long and into the daylight hours and was fully going off all night. People were climbing the walls! I checked out the other rooms (this event was spread over two piers), an outdoor room next to us, and the other two rooms at the other pier. The main stage was devoid of any music or anything for quite a while. Apparently the decision to use that space (for Juggernaught) was made at the last minute (due to unspecified problems) and renting generators became a problem for some reason (like the shops rental shops closing). So the main floor had no power for most of the night. When it did get gowing, there was a standard BRIGHT green laser, some intelligabt lighting, fog and the video screens (which looked the same two hours later). The music was coming from a DJ buried admidst equipment on the stage. Very uninspiring. Meanwhile the Mantra room was going OFF the whole night with beautiful sets from Theta Blip, Dutch, Surge and from a live group whose name eludes me (sorry!) but who played some incredible music! > > We arrived at the 18th & Illinois location at the time when the party was > still being set up. See above for why (last minute site selection). > One section was open to us, and it was a hassle to get > inside. Then when we got in (anyone could have gotten in for free, 'cuz we > saw people all around us handing each other used tickets). The door scene was rather lame. Most working crew had to deal with no laminates (horrors) so we had to sweet talk the guards just to walk around. > I was so appalled > by the manner of some of those so called "ravers". It was more like a drug > dealing session. Walking in a party, it's a slight turnoff to have a bunch > of 17 year olds practically yelling out drugs to sell to young innocent kids > who haven't the slightest idea what's being pushed in their faces. We were > literally walking through a tunnel of people saying, "E, E, Acid, Liquid, > Shrooms, E, Doses, etc, etc. Every name that you could think of. This > wasn't supposed to be a dealer's market. Well maybe outside the Mantra room this was going on (I never saw it) but in the Mantra room people were too busy dancing to hustle the young, reckless crowd. There did seem to be a bit of a youngsters scene going on elsewhere at Juggernaught with a slight Gangsta feel in the air. > I really hate to be negative, but I had to voice my opinion. I just miss > feeling the good vibes, good feelings, smiling faces, hugging arms. That's > what every party should be like!! I think it is great you are voicing your disasatisfaction with a poorly run, expensive, event. I certainly didn't think the show worth $25, despite the Mantra room. Hugz Ran @ Dionysus Dreams -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 00:54:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id AAA07021; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 00:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA07010; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 00:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id AAA27278; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 00:54:24 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 00:54:24 -0700 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199608050754.AAA27278@netcom.netcom.com> To: leftjab@well.com CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-reply-to: (leftjab@well.com) Subject: Re: cannibis buyer's club bust Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > X-Sender: leftjab@mail.well.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Date: Sun, 4 Aug 1996 17:52:31 -0800 > From: leftjab@well.com (leftjab) > Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com > Precedence: bulk > > bad news, folks . . . [snip] > the Nov. ballot (Prop 215?), and probably the powers that be are striking hiya - just saw it on the news myself. I believe it was prop 213; Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com ssimitzi@us.oracle.com | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-494-7987 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 01:21:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id BAA09225; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 01:21:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id BAA09220; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 01:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id BAA29719; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 01:21:14 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 01:21:14 -0700 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199608050821.BAA29719@netcom.netcom.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-reply-to: (message from Nancy Shaw on Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:13:25 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: The Union Street Bar Scene (& Chrysalis stuff) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Thanks for this post; this really hit home, as I had a similar weekend; I was unfortunate to attend Terminator at the Trocadero on Friday (friend's recommendation)... not to bash someone else's scene, but I was thoroughly miserable by the end of the evening, and even into the next day. now I know why goth people are so gloomy :) oh well; fortunately, Chrysalis :) :) :) happened the next day to revitalize my soul; came at 11:00, stayed till the bitter end. well worth it; I have a smile permanently attached to my face and keyboard :) the ambient room was key- the anxiety of the week was replaced by bliss and peacefulness... does anyone know who was spinning in the ambient room at around 3 or 4am? There was a woman (why are there so few female dj's ???) followed by a man; they were playing this somewhat soft, ambient-like music with a slow almost hip-hop like beat underneath it; I don't know how to describe it, but if anyone knows who I'm talking about... Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com ssimitzi@us.oracle.com | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-494-7987 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 04:25:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id EAA01819; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 04:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id EAA01814; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 04:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id EAA29373 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 04:25:11 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 04:25:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Chrysalis Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Don't quite know where to begin. I've only ever posted once before. Chrysalis, w0w! It was so beautifull. The music was great and I can't believe how quickly the time went! Having only gotten the chance to go to only a few in the past, Chrysalis definately set the scene for me. The people were fabo! It's too hard to imagine that I got there close to the beginning and then the next thing I know it's 5am! Plain bl0wn away by all the positive people, vibes and happenings. Peace! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 07:55:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id HAA17794; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 07:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id HAA17774; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 07:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id HAA16106; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 07:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 07:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608051455.HAA16106@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Rice From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: New Orb CD Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Got it on vinyl last week. It's really really good. Rick At 06:29 PM 8/2/96 -0700, you wrote: >At 2:01 PM -0700 8/2/96, John Robertson wrote: >> Hey all, >> >> Does anybody know where I can pick up a copy of this ?? Have been >> looking (in vain) for a while & am about to special order it if >> necessary. Any pointers would be appreciated !! >> >> TITLE: AUNTIE AUBREY'S EXCURSIONS BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY - THE ORB >> REMIX >> PROJECT >> RELEASED BY: DEVIANT RECORDS (e-mail deviant@volume.demon.co.uk) CAT >> NO: DVNT12CD (for the CD) > >It's just out the past week or so - for stuff like this your best bet is >Mod Lang in Berkeley, on University between Shattuck and Oxford. Or try >Rasputin's (who've just hired Markus of Hedquarters as their techno buyer >which is a good sign) > >Joe > > >(:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) >(:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) >(:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) >(:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) >(: anything like it!" :) > > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 08:40:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id IAA21785; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA21774; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp1.unix.portal.com (uucp1.unix.portal.com [156.151.4.11]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA25455; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:38:08 -0700 Received: from compattic.com (uucp@localhost) by uucp1.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with UUCP id IAA10220; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:34:08 -0700 From: aguevara@compattic.com (Adam Guevara) Reply-To: aguevara@compattic.com To: shawna-@ix.netcom.com Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Re: F-8 Correction Date: 05 Aug 1996 16:16:48 GMT Message-Id: <189656989.216595532@compattic.com> Organization: Computer Attic Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Is this going to be another outdoor event? unfortunatelly this will be an indor event located in SF... I think they'll try an outdoors again in September (weather permitting). Adam ____________________________ Transmitted from Computer Attic SuperCenter: (415) 363-8100 Corporate HQ: (415) 614-7500 ____________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 08:58:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id IAA23368; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA23361; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:58:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA1836; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:57:31 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960805155705.00a9aa04@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 08:57:05 -0700 To: Randy C Cone , KarenK420@aol.com From: "THX1138" Subject: Re: Juggernaut Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear Yous; The Mantra room was a paradise surrounded by a swirling pit of urban raver decay. Peace Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 08:58:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id IAA23468; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:58:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA23456; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id IAA26176 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:58:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199608051558.IAA26176@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: vw-camp mailing list. To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 08:58:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello, In the spirit of community building at Burning Man, I am setting up a mailing list to facilitate communication between those people planning to camp at the "vw-camp", which will be located exactly half-way between the Main Camp and the Techno Ghetto at Burning Man. All I know about this camp so far is that it will be built around Vince's VW bus, which will arrive on Weds and leave sometime after Monday... and even that is not certian :) So, if you are interested in helping to build a community around this bus, send me an email and I will add you by hand to this mailing list. Please don't request to be on this list unless you plan to camp in the vicinity of vw-camp, and please don't be asked to be removed from this list. to post to vw-camp, send a message to: vw-camp@schwa.eng.sun.com -troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 09:08:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA24429; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw3.pacbell.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA24423; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:08:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from srv.PacBell.COM (mother.srv.PacBell.COM) by gw3.pacbell.com (5.x/PacBell-10/18/95) id AA06356; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:07:57 -0700 Received: from pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM by srv.PacBell.COM (4.1/Mother-7/26/95) id AA09179; Mon, 5 Aug 96 09:07:56 PDT Received: by pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05956; Mon, 5 Aug 96 09:07:55 PDT From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel) Message-Id: <9608051607.AA05956@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM> Subject: sunset report To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 9:07:54 PDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Daum - Freaky Chakra - rocked the brig (his dad looked on proud and confused), Spun splintered the boathouse, then Andrew capsized us in the Jungle to finish another fine evening at sea with the Pacific crew. - Lee From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 09:11:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA24642; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA24630; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:08:56 -0700 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.75] (tmcdonnell.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA29784; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:08:56 -0700 X-Sender: knucklehead@mail.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) Subject: YES! YES! YES! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well my supervisor signed by vacation request. Even though she told me she will regret it later. She is actually one of the best people I have ever worked for or with. So I'll be heading up on Weds 28th with the VMAR crew, Vince and Wayne and everyone else that will be caravaning together. I remember reading all the post last year. I was one hour away from going last year. This year I'm there. If everything goes as planned, I should have me BBQ with me for everyone to use. Just a reminder about the BBQ. Since it will be probally hotter there then at the BBQ & BEATS parties, I'm not going to be hovering over it as I usually do. So your in charge of your own food if you want to cook it. I'll keep an eye on it if I'm there though. I'll also have a big surprise at the end of the trip which involves the my BBQ pit. Now, if only I had a ticket. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 09:25:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA25738; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:25:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA25733; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA2907; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:24:53 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960805162425.00f7fdfc@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 09:24:25 -0700 To: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis), leftjab@well.com From: "THX1138" Subject: RE: cannibis buyer's club bust Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; The bust, though a temporary set back, I feel was inevitable. They were operating above the law, and all the people who were involved in the arrest were just following the laws WE THE PEOPLE PUT ON THE BOOKS. You as I are just as responsible for the arrest as the police. I a registered voter in California however took the time to sign the petition to try and change these injustices. This event will hopefully bring HOME to the uninformed TV audience of hopefully at least the regional area that the idea that the need for medical pot is a sound, humane, and medically necessary one. An idea that must come about in OUR time, so register & vote, register & vote, register & vote people, for it's the only way to un-legislate these dumb laws. Peace Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 09:27:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA25925; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:27:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xinet.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA25914; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DialupEudora by xinet.COM via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) id JAA24416; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:20:49 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199608050821.BAA29719@netcom.netcom.com> References: (message from Nancy Shaw on Sat, 3 Aug 1996 18:13:25 -0700 (PDT)) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:20:45 -0800 To: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis), sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Tony Rotundo Subject: Re: The Union Street Bar Scene (& Chrysalis stuff) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 1:21 AM -0700 8/5/96, Steve Simitzis wrote: >does anyone know who was spinning in the ambient room at around 3 or >4am? There was a woman (why are there so few female dj's ???) followed >by a man; they were playing this somewhat soft, ambient-like music >with a slow almost hip-hop like beat underneath it; I don't know how >to describe it, but if anyone knows who I'm talking about... That was Claire. She's not only one of the founders and organizers of Gateway Systems (who threw the party), she's a great ambient DJ, and an all around amazing young woman. Following her was Rob, also an indispensable part of Gateway, and following him was Joe Rice, of fame beyond measure. =) Glad you had fun!! Look for gateway at Burning Man... Tony From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 09:33:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA26534; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA26528; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id JAA26602 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:33:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199608051633.JAA26602@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: gateway To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:33:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Did anyone catch the energy spheres that kept popping up from other dimesions in the front chill room? They would appear out of nowhere, bounce around and check us out for a couple of minutes, then they would hyperspace back into their own dimension with a loud burst of energy. I also enjoyed the guy doing the dynamic alter. Unlike a boring static alter, this person had the basic alter ingredients, a padded board, cloth, candles, flowers, pins, and other assorted goodies that he arranged and re-arranged in ever-changing configurations. He quickly incorperated other items that people donated to the alter, including Sunset fliers. I felt safe knowing that I was in a location where if anything happened to the soundsystem, they could just go upstairs and get a new one. -troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 09:35:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA26741; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA26727; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA3308; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:35:30 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960805163503.00fc9294@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 09:35:03 -0700 To: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead), sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "THX1138" Subject: Burning Man Request Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; Anyone have a 486 or better laptop they would like to loan me, I want to purchase some GPS software and antenna to track my progress and location while in transit and at Burning Man. Peace Brian ps GPS = Global Positioning System for all you not MIL/GOV types. GPS is a satellite based system that gives you your precise location on the planet in degree longitude, latitude, direction of travel & heading. Basic navigation stuff that used to be available only the military and has been made available to the general public willing to shell out the bucks for the required software and equipment. They also have hand held units non-pc based that fit into your pocket, soo cool for that camper/adventurer/solider of fortune. I'm such a geek = > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 09:39:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA27061; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA27054; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA3419; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:38:47 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960805163819.00f696c8@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 09:38:19 -0700 To: Dan , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "THX1138" Subject: Re: Chrysalis Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; Having went to both-em, I enjoyed Chrysalis for the people and the Juggernaut Mantra room only for the music. Peace Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 09:42:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA27489; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xinet.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA27479; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DialupEudora by xinet.COM via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) id JAA24929; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:42:32 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199608051633.JAA26602@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:42:28 -0800 To: Troy Sheets , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Tony Rotundo Subject: Re: gateway Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 9:33 AM -0700 8/5/96, Troy Sheets wrote: >I felt safe knowing that I was in a location where if anything happened to the >soundsystem, they could just go upstairs and get a new one. And they did! They swaped a mixer during James Dee's set. Troy, you didn't notice!? =) TR From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 09:42:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA27511; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:42:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA27499; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:42:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA07758; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) id JAA08211; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:11:52 -0700 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199608051611.JAA08211@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: The Union Street Bar Scene (& Chrysalis stuff) To: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199608050821.BAA29719@netcom.netcom.com> from "Steve Simitzis" at Aug 5, 96 01:21:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > fortunately, Chrysalis :) :) :) happened the next day to revitalize my > soul; came at 11:00, stayed till the bitter end. well worth it; I have > a smile permanently attached to my face and keyboard :) the ambient > room was key- the anxiety of the week was replaced by bliss and > peacefulness... > > does anyone know who was spinning in the ambient room at around 3 or > 4am? There was a woman (why are there so few female dj's ???) followed > by a man; they were playing this somewhat soft, ambient-like music > with a slow almost hip-hop like beat underneath it; I don't know how > to describe it, but if anyone knows who I'm talking about... > > Steve > I wasn't there...but I bet you they were Clair and Rob. Clair plays beautiful music, and it wouldn't surprize me one little bit if Rob did, too...I haven't had the chance to hear him yet. I gotta get out more!! Love, Ann From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 09:49:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA28155; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA28147; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmgate.corp.apple.com (A17-130-8-42.apple.com [17.130.8.42]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA45744 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 09:48:33 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 1996 09:47:12 -0700 From: "Mark Camp*" Subject: JuggerNOT To: "sfr" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 FC1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk It was really sad. The first indication that this was going to be a bad party was calling the number early Sat evening and hearing "um, we've run into some technical difficulties, lost our space, moving everything to the new location, will update message at the very latest 9:30" 9:30 - no new message, 10 - no new message, 10:30 - no new message. 11pm - Yeah!, finally get directions.......We (Jason Green and I) arrived there at around Midnight to find one of the rooms not open yet. So we headed down the street to the other pier. Walking in was like walking into Gangsta/Drugfest '96. Every single drug known to man was offered to us within the first 10 steps of the party. We immediatly headed to the Mantra room which was going off already. This was the best room all night, and I really dont even like Goa! Code 4 put on a long fast crazy live set. Listened to a little bit of Dutch's set. Decided to head over to the other pier. Getting thru the security was harder than ! going through customs. We were searched. Asked for our ticket (had to dig thru my pockets for it amidst all the other fliers), asked to see our stamp, then searched again! Something was wrong with the generator in this room which looked more like a concert stage set up than anything else. The DJ booth was surounded by intela-beams (SP?) and the guy running the lights and laser was placed infront of the DJ. They had some computers set up with Video Games for people to play off to the side. One of which was a Doom like You-have-a-gun-shoot-everything-that-moves Game. If you're going to have computer games at a Rave, they should be nice "Fluffy" games. Not shoot em up games. Decided to head back to the other pier since the Mantra room seemed like our best bet. When we got to the entrance of the other pier, we easily walked right past security at the front gate, and past the guy taking money and tickets. Would have been super easy for anyone to get into this party for free. The rest of the night was pretty much the same. Crappy music, Crapy people. If there was a vibe, I never found it. Ok, Kenny Larkins set was good, although he never played live as promised. I never saw Jonah Sharp there, And unfortunatly, missed Freaky Chakra's set. But there were positives, My car didnt get broken into, The Manra Room was super cool, And I got to hang with my buddy Jason for the night, even though I hang out with him all day at work, it was still cool. /-M-\ !E.A.C! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 10:02:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA29418; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA29409; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmgate.corp.apple.com (A17-130-8-42.apple.com [17.130.8.42]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA57820 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:01:54 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 3 Aug 1996 14:08:16 -0700 From: "Mark Camp*" Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr To: "sfr" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 FC1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Reply to: RE>Sex!!!!!! nrr >¥Visible Erection Even if Clothed is Illegal in 19 States: This one is my favorite. It seems to be a strange law to inforce. I'm sure all the guys can remember back in Math Class when you were called up to the front of the class to solve the problem on the board and your were..... ah, well, lets just say that wasnt a roll of quarters in your pocket......Would you get fined (or arrested!) for something like that? /-M-\ !E.A.C! "so, what are you in for" "well, my teacher called me to the front of the class to answer this geometry question, and well, I was a little too excited....." -------------------------------------- Date: 8/2/96 6:14 PM To: Mark Camp* From: Mark Camp* Ha, Got your attention, Didnt I? :) _________________________________ Sex Laws in the Good 'ol U S of A ¥Adultry is Illegal in 28 States: Alabama, Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Maryland, Massachussetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New hamphire, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin ¥Unmarried Sex is Illegal in 9 States: Georgia, Idaho, Massachussetts, Mississippi, North Carolina, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Virginia ¥Living Together Unmarried is Illegal in 8 States: Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Michigan, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, Virginia ¥Sex/Marriage with 1st Cousin is Illegal in 32 States: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, Neww hampshire, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Utah, Washington, Washington DCk, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming ¥Prostitution is Illegal in all states except Nevada ¥Pornography is Illegal in 28 States: Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, Ohio, Ilahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Texas, Virginia, Washinton, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming ¥Child Pornographhy is Illegal in 36 States: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, California, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachussets, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West. Virginia, Wisconsin ¥Visible Erection Even if Clothed is Illegal in 19 States: Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Massachussetts, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin, Vermont ¥Oral Sex with Opposite & Same Sex is Illegal in 17 States: Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachussetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Washington DC ¥Oral Sex with Same Sex Only is Illegal in 7 States: Arkansas, Maryland, Montana, Missouri, Nevada, Tennessee, Texas ¥Anal Sex with Opposite & Same Sex is Illegal in 15 States: Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Lousiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, RHode Island, South Carolina, Utah, Virginia, Washington DC ¥Anal Sex with Same Sex Only is Illegal in 9 States: Arkansas, Kansas, Maryland, Massechussetts, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, Tennessee, Texas Age of Consent: 13 - 1 State: New Mexico 14 - 3 States: Hawaii, Iowa, Mississippi 15 - 2 States: Connecticut, Virginia 16 - 26 States: Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachussetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington DC, West Virginia 17 - 5 States: Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, New York, Texas, 18 - 10 States: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Tennessee, Utah, Wisconsin _______________________________________ /-M-\ !E.A.C! ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by quickmail.apple.com with ADMIN;2 Aug 1996 18:14:14 -0700 Received: from taz.hyperreal.com ([204.152.144.36]) by mail-in1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25658; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:04:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA11695; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:12:40 -0700 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA11672; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:12:36 -0700 Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA11667; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:12:33 -0700 Received: from qmgate.corp.apple.com (A17-130-8-42.apple.com [17.130.8.42]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA45472 for ; Fri, 2 Aug 1996 18:12:48 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 2 Aug 1996 15:03:13 -0700 From: "Mark Camp*" Subject: Sex!!!!!! nrr To: "sfr" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 FC1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 10:10:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA00283; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:10:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.eline.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA00274; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sfbayguardian.com ([206.15.95.160]) by www.eline.com (8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA06065 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 09:56:58 -0800 From: Marco_A._Mancia@sfbayguardian.com (Marco A. Mancia) Organization: The San Francisco Bay Guardian Subject: Fwd: Ride to Juggernaut To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: <2657180.ensmtp@sfbayguardian.com> Priority: normal X-Mailer: ExpressNet/SMTP v1.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Is the guy who needs a ride to Jugg...........still needy? P.S.---------If you need a ride call me at 510-597-1723 -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent via the Guardian Online. 415.437.3600 N81 or bbs.sfbayguardian.com, 3004 ================================================================================ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 10:10:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA00317; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.eline.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA00296; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sfbayguardian.com ([206.15.95.160]) by www.eline.com (8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA06056 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 09:56:54 -0800 From: Marco_A._Mancia@sfbayguardian.com (Marco A. Mancia) Organization: The San Francisco Bay Guardian Subject: Ride to Juggernaut To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: <2657084.ensmtp@sfbayguardian.com> Priority: normal X-Mailer: ExpressNet/SMTP v1.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Is the guy who needs a ride to Jugg...........still needy? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent via the Guardian Online. 415.437.3600 N81 or bbs.sfbayguardian.com, 3004 ================================================================================ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 10:18:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA01200; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.eline.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA01190; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sfbayguardian.com ([206.15.95.160]) by www.eline.com (8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA06441 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 10:00:26 -0800 From: Marco_A._Mancia@sfbayguardian.com (Marco A. Mancia) Organization: The San Francisco Bay Guardian Subject: Juggernaut To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: <2662032.ensmtp@sfbayguardian.com> Priority: normal X-Mailer: ExpressNet/SMTP v1.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Any reports on Jugg yet?........... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent via the Guardian Online. 415.437.3600 N81 or bbs.sfbayguardian.com, 3004 ================================================================================ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 10:21:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA01537; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acergw3.acer.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA01531; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:21:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtplink.acer.com ([204.160.139.137]) by acergw3.acer.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01157 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ccMail by smtplink.acer.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA839265890; Mon, 05 Aug 96 10:10:55 pst Date: Mon, 05 Aug 96 10:10:55 pst From: "Andy Wyszkowski" Message-Id: <9607058392.AA839265890@smtplink.acer.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Chrysalis ... another review Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Many happy notes shot forth from the speakers. The chill room couldn't seem to find room for another soul, but was most divine. Even the cops meandering through seemed like nice people. After a mostly harmless and pleasant evening, I ventured back slightly tired to my car in the beautifully scented parking (like a scratch and sniff Quincy episode) available at Chrysalis. I stood slack jawed and stared at my 87 Suzuki Summersault. To my horror I saw two fat blobs of somewhat consumed blow pop core gum (I can tell) in my back seat. It's bad enough I own a crappy/tacky/unstable car. Please don't make it worse by flicking gum in my backseat. One of you know who did it... Grrrrrr kill kill kill.... there. Now I'm over it. AndyW From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 10:24:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA01885; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:24:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA01871; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id KAA05494; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608051724.KAA05494@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: "Mark Camp*" From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 02:08 PM 8/3/96 -0700, you wrote: > Reply to: RE>Sex!!!!!! nrr > >>=A5Visible Erection Even if Clothed is Illegal in 19 States: > >This one is my favorite. It seems to be a strange law to inforce. I'm sure all the guys can remember back in Math Class when you were called up to the front of the class to solve the problem on the board and your were..... ah, well, lets just say that wasnt a roll of quarters in your pocket......Would you get fined (or arrested!) for something like that? I never have understood why that happened. Just out of nowhere and, "hey what do you want, are you trying to embarrass me? One of the only things I don't like about being a guy. R From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 10:27:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA02088; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.eline.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA02083; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sfbayguardian.com ([206.15.95.160]) by www.eline.com (8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA06754 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 10:04:16 -0800 From: Marco_A._Mancia@sfbayguardian.com (Marco A. Mancia) Organization: The San Francisco Bay Guardian Subject: Moving Advice To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: <2666593.ensmtp@sfbayguardian.com> Priority: normal X-Mailer: ExpressNet/SMTP v1.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone know the best way to find on the net...............listings for rentals in certain cities (not Just the U.S.)..............or maybe rental classifieds for that city. Much Obliged, Marco (SPeaker 23)............is on me -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent via the Guardian Online. 415.437.3600 N81 or bbs.sfbayguardian.com, 3004 ================================================================================ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 10:27:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA02144; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA02125; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA274676062; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:42 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: JuggerNOT To: Mark Camp* Cc: sfr In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On 5 Aug 1996, Mark Camp* wrote: > It was really sad. The first indication that this was going to be a bad party > was calling the number early Sat evening and hearing "um, we've run into some > technical difficulties, lost our space, moving everything to the new > location, will update message at the very latest 9:30" 9:30 - no new > message, 10 - no new message, 10:30 - no new message. 11pm - Yeah!, > finally get directions....... Jeez, right then and there I would have said "Forget it!" Especially for an event that size. If your intuition said "No way" as early as the info line, why did you end up going to a way overpriced crappy party? That is what I don't understand - I sometimes read reviews of people who put themselves through sheer torture in order to have a crummy time at a lame rave. My question is *why*? love, Amy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 10:50:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA04054; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA04042; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:50:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA6593; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:49:46 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960805174920.00f40bb8@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 10:49:20 -0700 To: "Rusty H. Hodge" From: "THX1138" Subject: Re: Fish Markets Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; Fish is better than meat, everything you need can be obtained from the ocean and it's inhabitants. Peace Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 10:53:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA04323; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA04317; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA6708; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:52:46 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960805175220.0101d258@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 10:52:20 -0700 To: bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Brian Denny) From: "THX1138" Subject: Re: Chrysalis (newbie perspective) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; >from hand lotion to hugs, personal contact so wonderfully natural, two (or >three or four or five) people feeling the energy and love of the whole >place in- between their fingertips... Being a massage therspist, I have one word for lotion, please not. The massage oils I use, I feel and know are much better than oily, slimely, clothes staining, un-natural lotion. Peace Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:05:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA05682; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sii.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA05675; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siipo.sii.com (siipo.sii.com [155.190.2.6]) by sii.com (8.7.Beta.13/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id LAA24227 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:05:24 -0700 Received: by siipo.sii.com with Microsoft Mail id <320637F8@siipo.sii.com>; Mon, 05 Aug 96 11:05:44 PDT From: Steve Correa To: SFRaves Subject: ENIT Festival Date: Mon, 05 Aug 96 11:06:00 PDT Message-ID: <320637F8@siipo.sii.com> Encoding: 4 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone have information about the ENIT Festival?...Tickets on the Web? stevec. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:06:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA05842; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA05836; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA25383; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:06:53 -0700 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199608051806.LAA25383@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Fish Markets To: THX1138@planet-jubip.com (THX1138) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960805174920.00f40bb8@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> from "THX1138" at Aug 5, 96 10:49:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > Dear All; > > Fish is better than meat, everything you need can be obtained from > the ocean and it's inhabitants. > > Peace > Brian > > I think that ALL food has it's place. And it depends on your genetics, where you are born, availability of resources, etc. I like it all. After all, I am human, and there is little I caanot enjoy, when prepared to my taste. I would eat a cat or a dog, any bird, anything hat swins or crawls in the ocean, as long as it tastes good. As for things being good for me? Whatever. The earth is so polluted, the oceans are dying from overfishing, the land is toxic due to years and centuries of abuse from aggie chemicals, the air is getting worse. I think that much of this is illusional. I am from the South. I cannot tell you how many people I know who have lived over 100 years eating salty, greasy, fat laden food. I cannot tell you the number of people who drink & smoke and eat, what we might call, unhealthy. Yet, many of these codgers live to be 80-100+ years old. In the end, I think it is how one lives ones life, and how one deals with life. I dion't think things will ever be so simple as to be narrowed down to one quotient, food. Food is just one ingredient to a long healthy life. And yes, I do think you can live a long healthy life and not be a vegan. Some of the healthiest people I know are omnivores. Live long & consume mass quantities, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:16:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA06595; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA06589; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from quickmail.apple.com (A17-130-8-36.apple.com [17.130.8.36]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27828; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:15:54 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 1996 10:48:12 -0700 From: "Mark Camp*" Subject: Re: JuggerNOT To: "Amy R Starkey" , "Mark Camp*" Cc: "sfr" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 FC1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Reply to: RE>>JuggerNOT > My question is *why*? I did have a good reason to go. A few weeks ago I ran into Dutch who told me that Kenny Larkin is coming to town to play live. They were trying to track down a certain Mixer for him to use and I just happened to have one so I lent it to him. On Friday I gave it to one of the Space Children Crew. So I had to go to the party to retrieve my mixer, which was never used, because somebody failed to borrow or rent the remaining equiptment that Kenny needed to play live. Luckily, we were on the guest list so I really didnt loose anything that night other than a good nights sleep. /-M-\ !E.A.C! -------------------------------------- Date: 8/5/96 10:29 AM To: Mark Camp* From: Amy R Starkey On 5 Aug 1996, Mark Camp* wrote: > It was really sad. The first indication that this was going to be a bad party > was calling the number early Sat evening and hearing "um, we've run into some > technical difficulties, lost our space, moving everything to the new > location, will update message at the very latest 9:30" 9:30 - no new > message, 10 - no new message, 10:30 - no new message. 11pm - Yeah!, > finally get directions....... Jeez, right then and there I would have said "Forget it!" Especially for an event that size. If your intuition said "No way" as early as the info line, why did you end up going to a way overpriced crappy party? That is what I don't understand - I sometimes read reviews of people who put themselves through sheer torture in order to have a crummy time at a lame rave. My question is *why*? love, Amy ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by quickmail.apple.com with ADMIN;5 Aug 1996 10:29:04 -0700 Received: from taz.hyperreal.com ([204.152.144.36]) by mail-in2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA20374; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA02168; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA02144; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA02125; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA274676062; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:42 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: JuggerNOT To: Mark Camp* Cc: sfr In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:19:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA06838; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:19:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA06829; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from scarab@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA18519; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:18:55 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:18:54 -0700 (PDT) From: KaySEE To: Amy R Starkey cc: Mark Camp* , sfr Subject: Re: JuggerNOT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, Amy R Starkey wrote: > On 5 Aug 1996, Mark Camp* wrote: > > > It was really sad. The first indication that this was going to be a bad party > > was calling the number early Sat evening and hearing "um, we've run into some > > technical difficulties, lost our space, moving everything to the new > > location, will update message at the very latest 9:30" 9:30 - no new > > message, 10 - no new message, 10:30 - no new message. 11pm - Yeah!, > > finally get directions....... > > Jeez, right then and there I would have said "Forget it!" Especially for > an event that size. If your intuition said "No way" as early as the info > line, why did you end up going to a way overpriced crappy party? That is > what I don't understand - I sometimes read reviews of people > who put themselves through sheer torture in order to have a crummy time at a > lame rave. My question is *why*? DENIAL is a very powerful force!! You keep hoping your intuition is wrong. :) And, then when it was right, you beat yourself up. Takes a couple of times, and then you learn!! -KaySEE > > love, > Amy > ****Shit, goddamn, get off your ass and jam**** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:19:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA06879; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA06866; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from quickmail.apple.com (A17-130-8-36.apple.com [17.130.8.36]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA89592; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:18:16 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 1996 11:00:00 -0700 From: "Mark Camp*" Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr To: "Mark Camp*" , "Rick Riffle" Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 FC1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Reply to: RE>>Sex!!!!!! nrr >I never have understood why that happened. Just out of nowhere and, "hey >what do you want, are you trying to embarrass me? One of the only things I >don't like about being a guy. I find it even more frustrating when waking up in the morning, aroused, and needing to go to the bathroom. Its really hard to aim for the toilet......... /-M-\ !E.A.C! -------------------------------------- Date: 8/5/96 10:26 AM To: Mark Camp* From: Rick Riffle `At 02:08 PM 8/3/96 -0700, you wrote: > Reply to: RE>Sex!!!!!! nrr > >>´Visible Erection Even if Clothed is Illegal in 19 States: > >This one is my favorite. It seems to be a strange law to inforce. I'm sure all the guys can remember back in Math Class when you were called up to the front of the class to solve the problem on the board and your were..... ah, well, lets just say that wasnt a roll of quarters in your pocket......Would you get fined (or arrested!) for something like that? I never have understood why that happened. Just out of nowhere and, "hey what do you want, are you trying to embarrass me? One of the only things I don't like about being a guy. R ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by quickmail.apple.com with ADMIN;5 Aug 1996 10:25:29 -0700 Received: from taz.hyperreal.com ([204.152.144.36]) by mail-in2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA20110; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA01905; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA01885; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:24:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from franc.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA01871; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ucdavis.edu by franc.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.8) id KAA05494; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608051724.KAA05494@franc.ucdavis.edu> X-Sender: szriffle@peseta.ucdavis.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: "Mark Camp*" From: Rick Riffle Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:19:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA06922; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA06906; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from quickmail.apple.com (A17-130-8-36.apple.com [17.130.8.36]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12348; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:18:23 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 1996 10:34:04 -0700 From: "Mark Camp*" Subject: Re: Juggernaut To: "Marco A. Mancia" , sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 FC1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Reply to: RE>Juggernaut it sucked -------------------------------------- Date: 8/5/96 10:22 AM To: Mark Camp* From: Marco A. Mancia Any reports on Jugg yet?........... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent via the Guardian Online. 415.437.3600 N81 or bbs.sfbayguardian.com, 3004 ================================================================================ ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by quickmail.apple.com with ADMIN;5 Aug 1996 10:19:58 -0700 Received: from taz.hyperreal.com ([204.152.144.36]) by mail-in2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA19676; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA01217; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA01200; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.eline.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA01190; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:18:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sfbayguardian.com ([206.15.95.160]) by www.eline.com (8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA06441 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 10:00:26 -0800 From: Marco_A._Mancia@sfbayguardian.com (Marco A. Mancia) Organization: The San Francisco Bay Guardian Subject: Juggernaut To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: <2662032.ensmtp@sfbayguardian.com> Priority: normal X-Mailer: ExpressNet/SMTP v1.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:20:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA07070; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stratacom.strata.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA07054; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strata.COM (kiwi.strata.com) by stratacom.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gatekeeper.Strata.Com-950201) id AA08258; Mon, 5 Aug 96 11:20:00 PDT Received: from polaris.strata.com by Strata.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/StrataCom-GCA-Kiwi-931007-1) id AA22404; Mon, 5 Aug 96 11:19:59 PDT Received: by polaris.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09247; Mon, 5 Aug 96 11:20:54 PDT Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 11:20:54 PDT From: jlawrenc@stratacom.com (Jeremy Lawrence) Message-Id: <9608051820.AA09247@polaris.strata.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Fish Markets Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Brian wrote: > Fish is better than meat, everything you need can be obtained from > the ocean and it's inhabitants. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Not for much longer. The world's oceans are being fished at *three times* the replacement rate. I like fish, but don't eat much 'free range' fish because of this. Fish farming of vertibrate fish has the same concerns as any other farming: over-crowding, disease, possible unnecessary suffering, additives in food, etc. Farming of shellfish isn't as bad, IMHO, because they're grown in conditions very close to 'natural'. Jeremy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:32:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA08311; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sii.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA08290; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siipo.sii.com (siipo.sii.com [155.190.2.6]) by sii.com (8.7.Beta.13/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id LAA24876; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:31:54 -0700 Received: by siipo.sii.com with Microsoft Mail id <32063E2E@siipo.sii.com>; Mon, 05 Aug 96 11:32:14 PDT From: Steve Correa To: SFRaves , THX1138 Subject: Re: ENIT Festival Date: Mon, 05 Aug 96 11:32:00 PDT Message-ID: <32063E2E@siipo.sii.com> Encoding: 37 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Perry Farrell's ENIT Festival is getting rolling for summer. Call (212) 330-9134 to hear the current lineup recited by Perry himself - Black Grape, Love and Rockets, Farrell's own Porno for Pyros, and Lady Miss Kier (Deee-Lite). Rumor has it the tour will feature top UK DJs in each city like Carl Cox and Andy Weatherall. Exact tour dates are as yet unannounced. --- Many will remember last year's uneven San Francisco ENIT fest included DJ/performances from Sven Vath, Moby, Tracy Lords, DJ Spooky, Freaky Chakra and Single Cell Orchestra. etc... stevec. ---------- From: THX1138 To: Steve Correa Subject: Re: ENIT Festival Date: Monday, August 05, 1996 11:24AM Dear Steve; What is the ENIT Festival for the clueless & uninformed? Please post it public, thanks. Peace Brian At 11:06 AM 8/5/96 PDT, you wrote: > >Does anyone have information about the ENIT Festival?...Tickets on the Web? > >stevec. > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:32:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA08369; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA08361; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:32:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA8452; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:31:52 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960805183126.00fc0790@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 11:31:26 -0700 To: jlawrenc@stratacom.com (Jeremy Lawrence), sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "THX1138" Subject: Re: Fish Markets Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear Yous; I agree but I still love fish like, dolphin, shark, sword, halibut, monk, salmon, shell, red, ...etc. America is one of the very few countries that does NOT have an fish agency, equivalent to the meat people who rate & inspect meat products for disease & quality. Peace Brian >Not for much longer. The world's oceans are being fished at *three >times* the replacement rate. I like fish, but don't eat much 'free >range' fish because of this. > >Fish farming of vertibrate fish has the same concerns as any other >farming: over-crowding, disease, possible unnecessary suffering, >additives in food, etc. Farming of shellfish isn't as bad, IMHO, >because they're grown in conditions very close to 'natural'. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:34:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA08660; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA08619; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jsl@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA27585; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:34:35 -0700 From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Message-Id: <199608051834.LAA27585@netcom20.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr To: Mark_Camp*@quickmail.apple.com (Mark Camp*) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Mark Camp*" at Aug 5, 96 11:00:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > Reply to: RE>>Sex!!!!!! nrr > > >I never have understood why that happened. Just out of nowhere and, "hey > >what do you want, are you trying to embarrass me? One of the only things I > >don't like about being a guy. > > I find it even more frustrating when waking up in the morning, aroused, and needing to go to the bathroom. Its really hard to aim for the toilet......... > Other than my heart beating, waking up hard is NEVER frustrating, it's a sign of LIFE!!!!! Yay for morning wood! John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:36:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA08912; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dons.ac.usfca.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA08895; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608051836.LAA08895@taz.hyperreal.com> Subject: Paging The Burger King To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:30:15 -0700 (PDT) From: reicja00 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Jon, Drop me a line when you get this. Jake From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:40:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA09360; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sii.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA09341; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siipo.sii.com (siipo.sii.com [155.190.2.6]) by sii.com (8.7.Beta.13/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id LAA25151; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:40:04 -0700 Received: by siipo.sii.com with Microsoft Mail id <32064017@siipo.sii.com>; Mon, 05 Aug 96 11:40:23 PDT From: Steve Correa To: melvinm , SFRaves Subject: Re: ENIT Festival Date: Mon, 05 Aug 96 11:41:00 PDT Message-ID: <32064017@siipo.sii.com> Encoding: 30 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The info number (212)330-9134 only gives line-up info; but thanks for the help. WHERE CAN I GET THOSE TICKETS? stevec. ---------- From: melvinm To: stevec Subject: Re: ENIT Festival Date: Monday, August 05, 1996 11:26AM Steve, I saved the number given a few weeks back... 330-9134. Its actually a recording of Perry reading off the lineup. Pretty cool... Hope this helps. Mello ************************** Original Message ************************* From: Steve Correa Date: Mon, 05 Aug 96 11:06:00 PDT To: SFRaves Subject: ENIT Festival Does anyone have information about the ENIT Festival?...Tickets on the Web? stevec. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:40:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA09449; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA09443; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA30477; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.79.2.38] ([206.79.2.38]) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA09467; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:39:31 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:41:46 -0700 To: "Mark Camp*" From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Reply to: RE>>Sex!!!!!! nrr > >>I never have understood why that happened. Just out of nowhere and, "hey >>what do you want, are you trying to embarrass me? One of the only things I >>don't like about being a guy. > >I find it even more frustrating when waking up in the morning, aroused, >and needing to go to the bathroom. Its really hard to aim for the >toilet......... sounds like this needs to be moved to the SFBoners listserv... =) but it's all good for a laugh. (I totally sympathize about the toilet thing... jiminy christmas do I hate that!) -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | | | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | | | | avec le Headlands Band website | | et dj StarEyes aussi! | | | | Michal Migurski | | (408) 264-6604 | | | |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| | | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:46:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA10212; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA10200; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA16342; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:45:18 -0700 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199608051845.LAA16342@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: Re: ENIT Festival To: stevec@sii.com (Steve Correa) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Cc: melvinm@iii.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <32064017@siipo.sii.com> from "Steve Correa" at Aug 5, 96 11:41:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk There is a little advert for this ENIT festival that is happening later this month. The advert is in yesterday's ( Sunday's ) San Francisco Chronicle "Pink Section". I'm at work, maybe the Chronicle's web site has a web page about it? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:48:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA10405; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA10384; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id LAA01774; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:47:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Karen Hardie Subject: Re: JuggerNOT To: Amy R Starkey cc: Mark Camp* , sfr In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk i think it's cos somewhere waaaay down inside there's a little voice that says "but what if it DOES go off ....? man i'll be so sad if i miss that!" even though nine times out of ten it doesn't, that still small voice is what keeps ppl going to the big crap fests .... pounce ----------------------------------------------- ... -listen: there's a hell of a good universe next door; let's go - e.e. cummings From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:50:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA10647; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA10634; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:50:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from quickmail.apple.com (A17-130-8-36.apple.com [17.130.8.36]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA67078; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:49:11 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 1996 10:52:22 -0700 From: "Mark Camp*" Subject: Re: Moving Advice To: "Marco A. Mancia" , sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 FC1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Reply to: RE>Moving Advice Check NewsPaper Web Sites. I know that SJMerc has a web site that lists the Classified Add's including rentals, etc...... -M -------------------------------------- Date: 8/5/96 10:29 AM To: Mark Camp* From: Marco A. Mancia Does anyone know the best way to find on the net...............listings for rentals in certain cities (not Just the U.S.)..............or maybe rental classifieds for that city. Much Obliged, Marco (SPeaker 23)............is on me -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent via the Guardian Online. 415.437.3600 N81 or bbs.sfbayguardian.com, 3004 ================================================================================ ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by quickmail.apple.com with ADMIN;5 Aug 1996 10:28:34 -0700 Received: from taz.hyperreal.com ([204.152.144.36]) by mail-in1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA04241; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA02129; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA02088; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.eline.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA02083; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:27:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sfbayguardian.com ([206.15.95.160]) by www.eline.com (8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA06754 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 10:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 10:04:16 -0800 From: Marco_A._Mancia@sfbayguardian.com (Marco A. Mancia) Organization: The San Francisco Bay Guardian Subject: Moving Advice To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: <2666593.ensmtp@sfbayguardian.com> Priority: normal X-Mailer: ExpressNet/SMTP v1.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:52:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA10986; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA10973; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id LAA02642; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:52:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Karen Hardie Subject: All right guys .... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk thanks very much for all the insights into what it's like to have unnecessary hard-ons :P it wasn't high on my Need To Know list, but by god, now i do. :) pounce ----------------------------------------------- ... -listen: there's a hell of a good universe next door; let's go - e.e. cummings From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 11:57:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA11733; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dons.ac.usfca.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA11727; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608051857.LAA11727@taz.hyperreal.com> Subject: Jake's lyrics o' the week To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:50:53 -0700 (PDT) From: reicja00 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey all you SFR kiddies out there, Something to think about while you're revving up them engines this week: "Based on the desire for total mobility and a serious physical pursuit of religious freedom the auto drove mankind further than the wheel and, in remote areas, even today is forbidden as a device too suspect for human conveyance. This articulate conception has only brought us all more of the same - Thoughtlessly locked into phase two gridlock Keyed up, On its rims, And abandoned On the expressway" - Blondie "Europa" Mr. Jake Who's sick of L.A. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 12:00:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA12202; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sii.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA12177; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siipo.sii.com (siipo.sii.com [155.190.2.6]) by sii.com (8.7.Beta.13/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id MAA25765; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:00:43 -0700 Received: by siipo.sii.com with Microsoft Mail id <320644EF@siipo.sii.com>; Mon, 05 Aug 96 12:01:03 PDT From: Steve Correa To: larryc , SFRaves Subject: Re: ENIT Festival Date: Mon, 05 Aug 96 12:01:00 PDT Message-ID: <320644EF@siipo.sii.com> Encoding: 23 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Thanks, that was what I needed. FOR INFO on the ENIT Festival see http://www.teeth.net/enit/enitfo.html stevec. ---------- From: larryc To: stevec Cc: melvinm; sfraves Subject: Re: ENIT Festival Date: Monday, August 05, 1996 11:45AM There is a little advert for this ENIT festival that is happening later this month. The advert is in yesterday's ( Sunday's ) San Francisco Chronicle "Pink Section". I'm at work, maybe the Chronicle's web site has a web page about it? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 12:07:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA13221; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA13208; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:06:58 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA24338; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:06:51 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:06:51 -0700 (PDT) To: Karen Hardie cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: All right guys .... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, Karen Hardie wrote: > thanks very much for all the insights into what it's like to have > unnecessary hard-ons :P it wasn't high on my Need To Know list, but by > god, now i do. :) Then we wont even go into why men seem to miss the toilet, when in fact they aren't, huh? Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 12:10:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA13696; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:10:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA13671; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:10:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA10843 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:10:20 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA11997 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:44:30 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 11:44:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199608051844.LAA11997@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (Todd Grigsby) Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Remember: If you make having a hard-on a crime, only criminals will have hard-ons. Think about it... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 12:13:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA14095; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sii.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA14085; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siipo.sii.com (siipo.sii.com [155.190.2.6]) by sii.com (8.7.Beta.13/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id MAA26071; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:13:52 -0700 Received: by siipo.sii.com with Microsoft Mail id <32064804@siipo.sii.com>; Mon, 05 Aug 96 12:14:12 PDT From: Steve Correa To: larryc , SFRaves Subject: Re: ENIT Festival Date: Mon, 05 Aug 96 12:14:00 PDT Message-ID: <32064804@siipo.sii.com> Encoding: 27 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Thanks, that was what I needed. FOR INFO on the ENIT Festival see http://www.teeth.net/enit/enitfo.html or http://www.infinary.com stevec. www.infinary.com ---------- From: larryc To: stevec Cc: melvinm; sfraves Subject: Re: ENIT Festival Date: Monday, August 05, 1996 11:45AM There is a little advert for this ENIT festival that is happening later this month. The advert is in yesterday's ( Sunday's ) San Francisco Chronicle "Pink Section". I'm at work, maybe the Chronicle's web site has a web page about it? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 12:23:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA15053; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA15047; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:23:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.86.220.227] (bwret.vip.best.com [206.86.220.227]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA28028 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:23:48 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:26:40 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: bwret@best.com (Alex Ward) Subject: Enit Fest. Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, of course I',m a bit skeptical, but I think this should be fun. Prodigy is an arena-rave band and should go off. Massive Attack, Black Grape...bands I'd love to see. Outdoors in some field...contacting aliens..there's only 12 tour stops, so it should be quality. Did I mention it's from Dusk till Dawn? Anyways...sounds better than any other festival coming around... -peace- alex Alex Ward bwret@best.com May the Funk be with you...Always. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 12:46:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA17611; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inreach.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA17600; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp2060.inreach.com (ppp2060.inreach.com [205.138.251.60]) by inreach.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA09177 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 12:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960805194950.110fd324@mail.inreach.com> X-Sender: gutman@mail.inreach.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: A-RON Subject: Juggernaught Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Usually I write glowing happy reviews of raves I have been to over the weekend... but I have a few things I should say about the Juggernaught "Festival". On Sat, I picked Randy up from Santa Cruz in the morning, then headed up to SF. After last minuite space relocations, we finally arrived at the location to set up. Eeewww.. that fishy smell ;) So then the Mantra crew went to work putting together one of the better trance rooms I have seen. Raven and Jennifer did a great job setting up the altar, and setting the ambiance of the room. I worked with Randy on the lighting and slide show, which was quite pleasing IMHO. I then got to hear some of my FAVORITE music ALL NITE! Goa/Psychodelic/Yum Yum/Psychokinetic trance was spun by Anna, Dutch, Theta-Blip, Surge and Code-4. The Mantra room definately went off, despite some difficulties and negative energy surrounding the rest of the party. About the rest of the party... There were numerous problems, and security was pretty bad. It was such a hassle to even try to go over to the main area, which was pretty whackt 'cept for the junglists. The sound for Planet Rock, the area outside the Mantra room, was nice and clean and the people who like breaks/house were having fun there. The fire felt nice. I kinda wanted more of an ambient place to sit and chill though. I'm sorry that people feel bad about going to this event... I wish all raves could be Plurry, vibe-filled, massive, perfectly put together, and cheap... Thanks Adam for the flight ;) Good to finally meet you Raven. havE a grEat wEEk! ;) Aaron. BTW: I happened to lose my *red blinking bike light* over by the fire at the party. If by the slim chance that anyone on SF-Raves picked it up, please mail me. Thanks. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 13:06:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA19627; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA19603; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:05:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id NAA23507; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:05:50 -0700 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id NAA26522; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:05:46 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:05:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Juggernaut To: THX1138 cc: KarenK420@aol.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960805155705.00a9aa04@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, THX1138 wrote: > Dear Yous; > > The Mantra room was a paradise surrounded by a swirling pit of urban > raver decay. > > Peace > Brian > > Your soooooooooooooooooo right! Ran -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 13:10:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA20118; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA20102; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp1.unix.portal.com (uucp1.unix.portal.com [156.151.4.11]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA24530 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:08:02 -0700 Received: from compattic.com (uucp@localhost) by uucp1.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with UUCP id NAA03022 for SFRaves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:04:11 -0700 From: aguevara@compattic.com (Adam Guevara) Reply-To: aguevara@compattic.com To: SFRaves@hyperreal.com Subject: This Weekend's Rave Daze... Date: 05 Aug 1996 20:34:29 GMT Message-Id: <2401755101.217533848@compattic.com> Organization: Computer Attic Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Greetings and salutauions, Well after spending a restful Friday @ home (sorry for all those who responded to my Friday post that I didn't return, Im a Monday - Friday, 8-5, posting person). I was charged and set for a Stellar Saturday. Arriving in Richmond @ 3pm, I helped set up with the River crew and chatted with a few of the DJ's and others unitll the music started. Nice ambient set with Bonnie, mixin' dem CD's. Not too danceable, so I streched out on a dock and did some simple meditating (till I realized the dock wasnt anchored to anything and started to drift upstream). Jumped off and kicked it with a few non-SFR's till Ronan took control over the turntables danced thru his and Cyr's sets, helped breakdown and headed to SF... Got to the city @ about 10:30ish. Dropped by a friends for dinner and made my way to Chrysalis @ about 11-or-so. Danced furiously till about 12:30-1am i guess. Saw many of you there (Wayne, Shawana, Tim, Matt) talked to a few too (Rikki, Brian, Roger) but I chilled mostly in the Trip-hop room next to the main room talking to a few newbes and catching some ZZZ's (Wow, I guess the flame isn't burning so great for me this summer). I did get up periodicly and dance in 30 - 40 minute intervals but it was a nice relaxed event for me this time around... Sunday (After regaining conciusness) I more or less spent cleaning my record collection and watching Planet of the Apes, "Get yer stinking paws off me you bloody ape". All in all I'd give the weekend a solid 9.725 (in Olympic terms). So next weeks plate is even more appetizing: F-8 on Friday night and I hear, something eARTHy is coming dOWN TO a city near you on Saturday... "dance with me...." Adam ____________________________ Transmitted from Computer Attic SuperCenter: (415) 363-8100 Corporate HQ: (415) 614-7500 ____________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 13:15:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA20779; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA20769; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA05113 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:15:49 -0700 Received: from kcroy.vip.best.com (kcroy.vip.best.com [206.86.4.246]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA19797 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:15:19 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:15:19 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: kcroy@best.com (kcroy) Subject: Re: JuggerNOT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >On 5 Aug 1996, Mark Camp* wrote: > >> It was really sad. The first indication that this was going to be a bad >>party >> was calling the number early Sat evening and hearing "um, we've run into >>some >> technical difficulties, lost our space, moving everything to the new >> location, will update message at the very latest 9:30" 9:30 - no new >> message, 10 - no new message, 10:30 - no new message. 11pm - Yeah!, >> finally get directions....... > >Jeez, right then and there I would have said "Forget it!" Especially for >an event that size. If your intuition said "No way" as early as the info >line, why did you end up going to a way overpriced crappy party? That is >what I don't understand - I sometimes read reviews of people >who put themselves through sheer torture in order to have a crummy time at a >lame rave. My question is *why*? > >love, >Amy presale :) you know im not sure if I wrote a review yet. Its been a crazy weekend. You know about the delays You know about crappy security (which took water bottles, fuqrs - sorry, but im pretty unforgiving about this, and no free h20 inside) general confusion. I dunno, I saw a lot of people out dancing and having a good time. I kinda put drug dealers and people handing out flyers in the same league. If they stay out of the way of my dancing, i don't really care. Didn't pick up a real ganster vibe, though there were a lot of latino kids there (are people mistaking the two?) really, the mantra room saved the event for me. certainly not worth $20. But really nice to be dancing with back to speakers and seeing sun rise over the boats and have my stpd silly grin echoed by the kids around me. My sense of tiem is skewed, but around 1 am ish, there was some great musi=k coming out of the setup next to the mantra room. take care KCRoy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 13:16:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA20849; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA20833; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id NAA25022; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:16:12 -0700 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id NAA27098; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:16:12 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:16:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr To: Mark Camp* cc: Mark Camp* , Rick Riffle , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On 5 Aug 1996, Mark Camp* wrote: > I find it even more frustrating when waking up in the morning, aroused, > and needing to go to the bathroom. Its really hard to aim for the > toilet......... > Thats what sinks are for ;) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 13:23:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA21631; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom23.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA21610; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cami@localhost) by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id NAA26561; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:23:47 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:23:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Cami Edwards Subject: Re: Juggernaught To: A-RON cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19960805194950.110fd324@mail.inreach.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk It's really weird, I guess I was one of the only ones (at least on this list) that thought the party went off. I agree that the door scene when we got there was really burnt. Usually, I would totally let a large mass of pushing people at the door put me off, but I was determined to keep a good attitude, cuz the music was gonna make it all worth it. We were into the outside set-up the most, two huge stacks of speakers facing the moon and the bay. It was a bit cold, but there was a huge bonfire going with lots of nice people sitting around it. We hung out by the fire most of the night(you could here the music perfectly, due to the large speaker set-up) and took periodic trips to the dancefloor. The bonfire was like a big outdoor chill area. On our trips to the dancefloor, it seemed like most everyone was having a good time dancing. A very mixed crowd (age and background), which I don't see much in SF and I thought it was cool that all these different people were having fun and going off together, though it sort of scares me to see kids that look about 12 out at parties.:) (prob. because I'm so old!) I guess I didn't really notice the drug dealing aspect so much, I tend to just ignore that type of stuff anyway (like I would really by drugs from some random person at a party). I really loved the music. Yes, it was mostly house, but really acidy with lots of deep bass. The indoor room looked really cool, but I am just not that into that sort of music. We didn't go into the other rooms. We went over to check them out once we heard they had opened, but when we got there all we could hear was hardcore, and I can't get into that, reminds me too much of LA.:) We left about 5 or so (I wasn't feeling well), all in all pretty happy with the evening. Cheers*** Cami From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 13:27:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA21971; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vcn.bc.ca by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA21962; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from pounce@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.7.4/8.7.3) id NAA19311; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:27:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:27:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Karen Hardie Subject: Re: Sex!!!!!! nrr To: Todd Grigsby cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199608051844.LAA11997@shellx.best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk man, i know a lot of guys who are going to need a lot of bail money, then. pounce ----------------------------------------------- ... -listen: there's a hell of a good universe next door; let's go - e.e. cummings From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 13:34:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA22904; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA22874; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA14292 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:34:04 -0700 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199608052034.NAA14292@trix.cisco.com> Subject: Chrysalis To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:34:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Other than having a little trouble with the directions, I had a great night. I saw a few familiar faces there, but I was stuck in dance mode most of the night :) and didn't really talk to anyone. Sorry bout that. :) The two friends I brought both had fun (It was their first rave). The one from Pittsburgh was still on east coast time and so he crashed in my car around 2:30, but the one from Denver danced till 6:00. j PS A big thanks and a hug to whoever took the clock of the wall. No idea who they were. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 13:46:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA24341; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA24315; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA21244; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:45:41 -0700 Received: from hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA23134; Mon, 5 Aug 96 13:45:40 PDT Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 13:45:40 PDT From: timb@nit.AirTouch.COM (Tim Beauchamp) Message-Id: <9608052045.AA23134@nit.AirTouch.COM> To: simitzis@netcom.com, leftjab@well.com, THX1138@planet-jubip.com Subject: RE: cannibis buyer's club bust Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Brian Darkness wrote: > The bust, though a temporary set back, I feel was inevitable. They > were operating above the law, and all the people who were involved in the > arrest were just following the laws WE THE PEOPLE PUT ON THE BOOKS. You as I > are just as responsible for the arrest as the police. I a registered voter > in California however took the time to sign the petition to try and change > these injustices. "In a democracy, the people get the kind of government they deserve." > An idea that > must come about in OUR time, so register & vote, register & vote, register & > vote people, for it's the only way to un-legislate these dumb laws. Well it's the way most likely to be effective--I don't forsee any meaningful revolutions in our near future. Vote against the status quo. Tim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 13:48:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA24610; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA24594; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA09574 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:48:21 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA12549 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:48:03 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:48:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199608052048.NAA12549@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (Todd Grigsby) Subject: Re: Fish Markets X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The Honorable John S. Lee wrote: >I would eat a cat or a dog, any bird, anything hat swins or crawls in the >ocean, as long as it tastes good. Southern Deep Fried Gerbil. With red squirrel gravy, collard greens and biscuits. mmmm-MM! Just like mom used to make... :9 S PS. For the humor impaired: that was a joke... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 14:02:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA26025; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA26018; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:02:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA20575; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:13:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: from 205.134.228.28 (ppp028-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.28]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id NAA22059 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 13:12:56 -0700 Message-ID: <32066409.2329@sirius.com> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 13:13:50 -0800 From: inertia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: San Francisco Raves Subject: Fly! on Tuesday nights Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ReSent-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:02:10 -0700 (PDT) ReSent-From: Brian Behlendorf ReSent-To: sfraves@hyperreal.com ReSent-Message-ID: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello everyone! Dano here. Thanks to all who dropped in last Tuesday, we appreciate the support and hope to see you again tomorrow night. For those of you who missed us- we missed you! And we hope you can come down 111 Minna st. for our new weekly club called Fly! Featuring Dj's Dano & Keith plus weekly guests. The music will be eclectic but most likely a broad range of trippy house with dashes of trance and a hint of techno!!! MMM....goood! TNT Blast! will be providing a live video mixing extravaganza which should be superb! We will begin around 9:30 and hopefully will go until 2:30 or 3:00. Donations appreciated to help cover our costs. We hope to see you all there showing your support and smiles :) Feel free to contact me for answers. Peace Dano From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 14:15:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA27533; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA27508; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 206.217.121.87 (sjx-ca65-23.ix.netcom.com [206.217.121.87]) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA20816; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:14:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3205BDAE.78E8@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 02:23:58 -0700 From: CT Reply-To: ctd-zine@ix.netcom.com Organization: CT D-Zine X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Juggernaut References: <199608042130.OAA12535@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk JuggerNOT was a ghetto rave. Space Children's debacle reminds me of the shit Ex-why-Zzz tried tp pull last year.............idiots. Adam Luong wrote: > > You wrote: > > > >I really hate to be negative, but I had to voice my opinion. I just > miss > >feeling the good vibes, good feelings, smiling faces, hugging arms. > That's > >what every party should be like!! > > > > Ditto.. Juggernaut Sucked. > > Adam From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 14:49:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA00421; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from goonsquad.spies.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA00412; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by goonsquad.spies.com via sendmail with stdio id for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:49:24 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #1 built 1996-Aug-2) Message-Id: From: sho@goonsquad.spies.com (Sho Kuwamoto) Subject: Re: Juggernaut To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk CT wrote: > JuggerNOT was a ghetto rave. I'm sorry that Juggernaut wasn't so great, but... um.. "ghetto rave"? What is that supposed to mean? Hope I'm not being too nit-picky, -Sho From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 14:50:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA00598; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horatio.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA00585; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from knegtel@localhost) by horatio.ucsf.EDU (940816.SGI.8.6.9/GSC4.24) id OAA24216 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:50:20 -0700 From: "Ronald Knegtel" Message-Id: <9608051450.ZM24214@horatio.ucsf.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 14:50:19 -0700 In-Reply-To: timb@nit.AirTouch.COM (Tim Beauchamp) "RE: cannibis buyer's club bust " (Aug 5, 1:45pm) References: <9608052045.AA23134@nit.AirTouch.COM> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: cannibis buyer's club bust Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Aug 5, 1:45pm, Tim Beauchamp wrote: > Subject: RE: cannibis buyer's club bust > > Brian Darkness wrote: > > > The bust, though a temporary set back, I feel was inevitable. They > > were operating above the law, and all the people who were involved in the > > arrest were just following the laws WE THE PEOPLE PUT ON THE BOOKS. You as I > > are just as responsible for the arrest as the police. I a registered voter > > in California however took the time to sign the petition to try and change > > these injustices. > > "In a democracy, the people get the kind of government they deserve." > > > An idea that > > must come about in OUR time, so register & vote, register & vote, register & > > vote people, for it's the only way to un-legislate these dumb laws. > > Well it's the way most likely to be effective--I don't forsee any > meaningful revolutions in our near future. > > Vote against the status quo. > > Tim >-- End of excerpt from Tim Beauchamp This discussion makes me (as basically an outsider to this issue) wonder how many people of this list (among which there are likely to be a few pot smokers or at least legalization proponents) are members of organizations like NORML or the medical cannabis lobby. I'm not sure about the impact of peoples votes if it's not preceeded by lobbying, advertizing and in general making some facts known to the general public which is still being brainwashed by the DEA, the local and federal government etc. The Frying Dutchman -- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 15:21:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA04529; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:21:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emout13.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA04521; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:21:39 -0700 (PDT) From: KarenK420@aol.com Received: by emout13.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA01850 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:20:41 -0400 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:20:41 -0400 Message-ID: <960805182040_172385508@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: M.A.D. Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Going to MAD tonight. Join us tonight!!! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 15:28:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA05602; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom13.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA05585; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:28:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ephedra@localhost) by netcom13.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id PAA07677; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:28:42 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:28:42 -0700 From: ephedra@netcom.com (ephedrina) Message-Id: <199608052228.PAA07677@netcom13.netcom.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: help! I need glow sticks! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I was wondering if anyone on this list knows where I could buy lots and lots of glow sticks cheap (like $1 or so) and soon, like in he next week or two..? I MUST HAVE THEM thanks in advance for any helpful leads.. :) kia From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 15:31:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA05924; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:31:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA05919; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:31:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1); Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:38:13 -0700 X-Sender: ambient@netcom13.netcom.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:31:47 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Joe Rice Subject: mad (bsp) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk mad 8/5 Alex Cesar Jon Carel @ Bahia 1600 Market @ Franklin 18+ w/ID $3 - $2 before 11pm (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 15:35:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA06728; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA06720; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp030-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.30]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id PAA26440 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:35:03 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960805223818.00718f68@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 15:38:18 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Pleated 99 Subject: Mail Order Glow Sticks Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk i'll repost the info that Larry Ching posted a few months back... >[sfraves @hyperreal.com] > > Since glowsticks are a reoccuring topic here on SFRaves , I thought >folks would be interested in an item in a catalog I got in the mail today. > >6" Cyalume Lightsticks , glows at max intensity for 1/2 hour , dims > after 1/2 hour. Colors Red, Yellow, and White for $1.49 each, > 10 for $10.00 , and 100 for $80.00 . > Stock #G7820 : Red > Stock #G7821 : Yellow > Stock #G7822 : White > >6" Blue Lightsticks last 8 hours (!) , prices are $2.00 each, 10 for > $15.00 , and 100 for $120.00. > Stock #G7823 : Blue > >or, 4 Reds, 4 Yellows, 1 White, and 1 Blue for $12.00. > Stock #G7824 : 10 pack mixed colors > > This was in the 1996 Summer Catalog (#228) of > > The Electronic Goldmine > P.O. Box 5408 > Scottsdale, AZ 85261 1-800-445-0697 : Toll Free Order Line > > $5 minimum for shipping , minimum order $10.00 plus shipping > > I've bought stuff from these guys before, they've been OK to me. They >specialize in used , overstock, surplus, and discontinued electronic >components ( like Maverick missile gyros , all kinds of LEDs, electronic >drumsticks, novelty sound modules ) and electronic kits ( color organs, >strobes, light sensitive sound generators, etc. ). Those of you who are >gadget minded might want to order their catalog ( $1 each ). > > Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 15:38:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA07094; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA07067; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id PAA02555; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:38:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199608052238.PAA02555@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Re: help! I need glow sticks! To: ephedra@netcom.com (ephedrina) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199608052228.PAA07677@netcom13.netcom.com> from "ephedrina" at Aug 5, 96 03:28:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk You can order them by mail from Ken of Pure Acid Mixtapes for $1 each, plus postage. Ken can be reached at techno@pacificnet.net. -troy > > > I was wondering if anyone on this list knows where I could buy > lots and lots of glow sticks cheap (like $1 or so) and soon, > like in he next week or two..? > > I MUST HAVE THEM > > thanks in advance for any helpful leads.. :) > > kia > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 15:51:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA08174; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elaine47.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA08165; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from gonzo@localhost) by elaine47.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA00871; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:51:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Mark Logan To: friends&family Subject: any advice on dual cd mixers? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm considering the rather risky and fiscally dangerous purchase of a dual cd mixer, cuz I've got so damned many ambient cds and now I wanna start spinning in earnest. It sucks having to mix between a Sony 5-disc changer and a crusty old Discman on my Numark. Anyone out there have any suggestions on cd mixers, with pitch control and all that, of course? I'm hoping to spend no more than ~800... thanks, jon From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 16:24:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA11469; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inreach.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA11461; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp2060.inreach.com (ppp1186.inreach.com [205.138.245.186]) by inreach.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA21483 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960805232755.415f03ce@mail.inreach.com> X-Sender: gutman@mail.inreach.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: A-RON Subject: wow... :) (fwd) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This was posted on Mtn-raves... Just thought I'd share =) >_____________________________________________________ >its a funny thing about the underground. it's a self-regulating entity. >when people start running around with their balloons getting loopy all >indiscrete-like and getting on hard copy... none of that is what we're >about (and when i say we, i'm assuming we all agree that we at least dig the >music to some proportion and at the root of this whole scene that is what >has brought us together...) the underground will re-emerge in new areas and >in new ways... too many people have gotten *too good* at being 'ravers' and >'promotors' and 'dj's' and now there's not too much that's really special >about the scene anymore. but you all KNOW what keeps you coming back! it's >that little something that you can't put into words... and once you think >you can, it'll slip away from you and change and reinvent itself. > >it's the *underground* (*boom boom boom boom*)!!!!! > >let it grow and change and just be. > >love it for what it is. > >don't try to make it what it's not. don't even try. just enjoy it. > >it's the **underground** (*BOOM boom boom boom*)!!!!! > >it will take you to the farthest reaches of the universe... if you let it. > >no need to call it a "rave..." that word already brings a negative >connotation to "mass media" (and i can say this because i work in 'mass >media.') > >it's just our thing... it's what we do... > >i dig it becuz it's unlike anything anybody else is doin' in mainstream >culture and once it becomes 'mainstream culture' you can bet i'm gonna be >doin something else. > >away from the crowds... crowds just attract attention. > >it's the ***underground*** (*BOOM BOOM BOOM boom*)!!!!! > >it's wherever you've got a couple hundred of your best buds that you've >never met before... > >it's wherever you stop to think... 'man, that's pretty fuckin cool.' > >it's whatever makes you want to stop and dance awhile... or all night. > >(*BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM*)!!!!! > >it's not about 'who's the shit dj' > >i'll tell you what, the dj's who *are* the shit don't give a damn about fame >and all that and they don't want ya'll crowded around the dj booth "checkin >their skills" cuz it ain't about the 'skills.' > >it's about movin your butt... > >and don't believe anyone who tries to tell you otherwise! > >*boom boom boom boom* > >hear it off in the distance? > >just around the corner... > >just over that hill... > >you know you're almost there... > >*boom boom boom boom* > >sooner or later we all realize that the beautiful thing about this >underground is the search to find it... > >if it's on every street corner then you don't want it. throw it back... > >demand the uncommon. insist on the unique. hunger for the unusual. > >if it's mass marketed at every big budget rave you go to then its bunk. >don't pay for it. > >if it's dj's getting in your face sayin', "yo G, check ME, i'm the *shit!*" >don't take that 'shit' cuz that's all it is. > >if it's anywhere other than a place where you feel *love* then its ~nowhere~ > >*boom boom boom boom* > >look for the love... get back to your roots... > >remember what made it special the first time and what you've been trying to >recapture since you've first encountered it... > >find a place where you feel safe and warm and protected... > >that, my children, is the underground... > >*boom boom boom boom* > >as fun as it is to go crazy with 1000 other kids at a drug infested party in >a warehouse where when people bump into you they don't even say 'excuse my >fucked-up-ed-ness' with a 'moon walk' and a 'sea of balls' and a 15,000,000 >watt laser pointed right at your retina and ear-shredding sound that will >make you regret ever getting into raving 50 years from now when you're deaf >and can't even hear your own granddaughter whispering in your ear how much >she loves you and those gosh-awful fun nitrous tanks and 25 foot balloons >for everyone!!! that's just not reality and if you think you're not causing >a scene then you're delusional. people *will* notice and when they find out >what you're doing to their kids they're going to release the 'dogs,' or the >'bees' or the dogs with bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot >bees at you or whatever!!!!! > >*boom boom boom boom* > >two paths lie before you... > >one will take you to a hollow premature death of the child inside you with a >couple more 3000 person parties on the way... > >the other will take you to places that haven't been invented yet... places >YOU don't even know about... much less the cops... places that feel like you >felt at the first 'rave' you ever went to... > >do you know why that felt that way?!!! because it was completely different >than anything else you've ever felt before... > >let the underground grow and reinvent itself... > >let everytime feel like the first... > >*boom boom boom boom* > >the beat is calling... time to choose a path kids. > >those that crave originality, artistic freedom, *true* love, *true* >friendship, *genuine* compassion for ~everyone~ around you and an overall >feeling of ~~~bliss~~~... i welcome you to.... > >the ~underground~ (*boom boom boom boom*) > >vibrating at the speed of love > >solarvibe :) > .od8888bo. solrvibe@bga.com http://www.realtime.net/~solrvibe > .d%::::88::888b. > .d888::::::::8:888%. Global Raver/Love your mother/Be nice to each other/ > 88888:::::::88888::%. Feel the Vibe/Spirituality through music and dance/ >d888888:::88;888888::b Hug a stranger/Practice good karma/Share your love/ >888888888:888888888888 Focus your energy/Do something helpful/Pet your dog/ >Y8888888::::::888888%P Remember what's important/Remember why we're here/ >'8888888:::::::8888:%' Welcome to the Age of Knowledge/Ask yourself why/ > '88888888:::888888%' Ask yourself why not/You have 16 years to get right > '88888888::888888' with the universe/Will you be ready?/Plants rights > '"Y8888;888P"' NOW!/The earth is alive/Stop killing her/Rave on. > '"^^"' > > > > >____________________________________ > > > > . . . . . .. . ... ............... . . . . . > keep it undergound > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 16:29:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA11913; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from svpal.svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA11904; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from djtom@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA04160; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:27:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: place to live in north bay??? To: Happy Ravers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk heres a message from a raver friend of mine... --------------------forwarded shit------------------------------ I need a room or a space to reside. My name is Ben. I rave, and I currently live in Santa Cruz. Somethin by sept. 1 would be 0.k. I don't have any pets, but I have some records. I am really nice to most people too. Oh,I'm 19, male, and I have a car, and a licencce, and i'm insured. I don't have a phone, so contact tom. ________________-end other message-_____________________________ *ahau* tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 16:58:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA14400; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:58:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA14387; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 16:58:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Felps8888@aol.com Received: by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA24204 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:57:46 -0400 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:57:46 -0400 Message-ID: <960805195745_253476898@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Come Dance with Me Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Yippie- MAD is up and going again! I'll be there with redish bobbed hair, pink shirt (short sleeves) and dark blue wide cut pants. . .I'm on the short side and will be on the dance floor. . . come up and say HI if you're there!! Phelps From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 17:10:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA15549; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 17:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arl-img-4.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA15544; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 17:10:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA24009; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:09:30 -0400 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 20:05:30 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: Ideals To: Shamini Jain Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608052009_MC1-82E-7FB@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, >>:^( I do have about 200hrs of Dead, and some Janis, My Bloody Valentine, Spiritualized, >>Jane's, Mr. Bungle, Bob Marley, Phish...if any of you would dig some of this stuff, I'd be >>happy to trade for your favorites. Partial to trance, but open to anything. I've noticed that Deadheads and regae folk have much in common with ravers. The most immediately receptive newbie I have brought into the scene was also into the Dead and various underground events related to the music. Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 18:12:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id SAA21058; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.eds.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA21045; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ns2.eds.com (hello) id VAA11258; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:11:57 -0400 Received: from spot (spot.hds.eds.com [199.228.179.61]) by nnsp.eds.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA08045 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:11:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from notes.hds.eds.com by spot (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA04760; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:09:42 +0800 Received: by notes.hds.eds.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.2)/1.0) id AA1215; Mon, 05 Aug 96 18:08:28 -0400 Message-Id: <9608052208.AA1215@notes.hds.eds.com> Received: by HDS (Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP V1.1) id EE07D804EF67BCDA8825637D00701F43; Mon, 5 Aug 96 18:08:27 To: sfraves From: Todd Manley/Santa Clara/HDS Date: 5 Aug 96 13:26:51 Subject: NRR: Record Cleaners X-Importance: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello everybody- I need to clean some records, and I'm wondering what's the best tools for doing this. Somebody told me that rubbing alcohol and a lint rag work, but I'd like to get other suggestions. Thanx! -Todd From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 18:27:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id SAA22384; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stratacom.strata.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA22378; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strata.COM (kiwi.strata.com) by stratacom.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gatekeeper.Strata.Com-950201) id AA17776; Mon, 5 Aug 96 18:27:23 PDT Received: from polaris.strata.com by Strata.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/StrataCom-GCA-Kiwi-931007-1) id AA25151; Mon, 5 Aug 96 18:27:22 PDT Received: by polaris.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09410; Mon, 5 Aug 96 18:28:18 PDT Date: Mon, 5 Aug 96 18:28:18 PDT From: jlawrenc@stratacom.com (Jeremy Lawrence) Message-Id: <9608060128.AA09410@polaris.strata.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, Todd_Manley@notes.hds.eds.com Subject: Re: NRR: Record Cleaners Reply-To: jlawrenc@stratacom.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > I need to clean some records, and I'm wondering what's the best tools for > doing this. Somebody told me that rubbing alcohol and a lint rag work, but I'd > like to get other suggestions. Thanx! Cheap way: wash them in warm water with detergent and a soft cloth, and leave them in a dish rack to dry. This works well, and i've used it to get serious gunk off records. More expensive but not necessarily better: spend $$$ on special cleaning fluids from a specialist hi-fi store. Jeremy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 18:45:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id SAA23827; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA23814; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:45:04 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA26483; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:44:56 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:44:55 -0700 (PDT) To: Jeremy Lawrence cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, Todd_Manley@notes.hds.eds.com Subject: Re: NRR: Record Cleaners In-Reply-To: <9608060128.AA09410@polaris.strata.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Aug 1996, Jeremy Lawrence wrote: > > I need to clean some records, and I'm wondering what's the best tools for > > doing this. Somebody told me that rubbing alcohol and a lint rag work, but I'd > > like to get other suggestions. Thanx! > > Cheap way: wash them in warm water with detergent and a soft cloth, and > leave them in a dish rack to dry. This works well, and i've used it to > get serious gunk off records. > > More expensive but not necessarily better: spend $$$ on special > cleaning fluids from a specialist hi-fi store. > Do *NOT* do this. Washing records with normal detergents can leave residue on the vinyl. Bad, bad, icky, icky... Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 18:45:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id SAA23979; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA23952; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id SAA04630; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:45:21 -0700 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id SAA12338; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:45:21 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 18:45:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Reply-To: Randy C Cone Subject: JuggerNOT review (part 2) To: sfraves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi all! Well, in my exhausted delirium I forgot to thank the folks who really deserved it: A-RON : Thanks for the lift and the hard work and support. You really helped to make the evening fun for me. Dagny : Thanks for your help also. Your warmth, humor and overall vibe are so very beautiful! Raven : Beautiful alter!! Thanks for protecting my glass head. ;) Jennifer: Thanks to your energy flow! You really helped lubricate the whole process of decorating the trance room (we did it!!!). Anna/Ceiba: You folks kicked some seriously sic tunes. Thank you (and sorry I forgot your names in my first post!!) Owen/CCC : Thanks for the lift home Owen and big thanks to CCC for letting me snooze at their playpen. Gia : Thanks for your help and energy at the end of the show. KISS! I would also like to add that the system next to us was playing some great house and I even liked some of the jungle being played at the next pier. I was so busy how ever that I could barely spend any time at these spots. The bonfire looked pretty cool also. And did anyone catch the moon as it came from behind the rusting hull of the ship close by? Very nice. Peace all Ran -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 19:15:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id TAA27141; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA27122; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA24846 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA07757; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:09:18 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:09:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: Techno Surprise on a Dreary Monday To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I sit at work on a gloomy Monday afternoon. I'm glad the clouds have waited till the workweek to come and shroud us in grayness. I'm listening to KALX on my walkman (my boss prefers KFOG on the office radio!). And then some strange, experimental techno comes on, and my blood starts pumping. First, some sounds circling each other (the dj explains, this group mixes cd's together). They almost clash but instead manage to blend into beautiful ambient. Then, it gives way to pumping bass, and takes me away. I am suddenly alert, tingling, on this dark cold day. Strange sounds start morphing into almost-decipherable words. Then, the suggestions become more and more intelligible, and it comes together: "Marijuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse, ecstasy is the BOMB!" Over and over again. Suddenly, waves are coursing through me. The music transports me to that feeling - that unbelievable feeling - of the anticipation and excitement of trance dancing and soaring chemical highs and giddy happiness. It is as if the experience is now encoded in my cells, and it sometimes only needs the sound of the music (the conduit to the original experience) to take me there again. I have noticed this reaction before - when the coolest aerobics teacher at the gym puts on his house and trance tapes - eschewing the lame, '80's synthesizer aerobics crap favored by all the others - and suddenly I can fly through the work-out. The music gives me energy. The music releases the endorphins that I have associated with raving. The MUSIC can be the drug! This doesn't happen every time I hear the music outside, but it is a delicious surprise when it does. :) :) Nancy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 19:46:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id TAA29643; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA29638; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [157.22.1.249] (lr8e1-port7.zocalo.net [157.22.1.249]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA11553; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:46:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: wayne@mail.domain.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199608051558.IAA26176@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 19:42:45 -0700 To: Troy Sheets , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Wayne Correia Subject: Re: vw-camp mailing list. Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 8:58 AM -0700 8/5/96, Troy Sheets wrote: >Hello, > >In the spirit of community building at Burning Man, I am setting up >a mailing list to facilitate communication between those people planning >to camp at the "vw-camp", which will be located exactly half-way between >the Main Camp and the Techno Ghetto at Burning Man. > >All I know about this camp so far is that it will be built around Vince's >VW bus, which will arrive on Weds and leave sometime after Monday... and >even that is not certian :) > >So, if you are interested in helping to build a community around this bus, >send me an email and I will add you by hand to this mailing list. Please >don't request to be on this list unless you plan to camp in the vicinity >of vw-camp, and please don't be asked to be removed from this list. > >to post to vw-camp, send a message to: > >vw-camp@schwa.eng.sun.com Hi, It's no bust, it's a 22' truck... many of you have seen it there last year, too... it's our home away from home! :-) -w ____________________________________________________________________________ Wayne D. Correia TEL: +1.415.826.6000 www.club.net FAX: +1.415.826.6100 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 21:04:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA05861; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arl-img-6.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA05823; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA16118; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:04:02 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:03:50 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: NRR: Motorcycle for sale To: sfraves Message-ID: <199608060004_MC1-81F-5EEB@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, This is rave related only in that it will help a fellow raver get to Burning Man and build some sub-cabinets for future deployment at BBQs and other small New Moon type parties. I am selling a : 1991 Honda Nighthawk 750 motorcycle New dunlop tires, battery, heavy duty chain National cycle flexiglass 3 windshield, GSXR-750 clutch springs, spare Redline hvy dty clutch discs, 1 helmet, 16,000 miles $2800 o.b.o. This bike is not PERFECT cosmetically. But is a damn NICE bike. I am the origional owner and can vouch that it was maintained by one of the best mechanics around, me. After a knee injury I am unable to ride such a heavy bike anymore, without possibly re-injuring my knee should the bike begin to tip. If you or anyone else you know might be interested, they can contact me at this e-mail address or by phone @ (916) 852-0127. Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 21:04:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA05896; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA05838; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA21201; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:04:03 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:03:45 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: whoa weird! To: "hey, where am i?" Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608060003_MC1-81F-5EEA@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hullo, >>Definitely weird to be typing this out from what *looks* like my account, but it's really Matt's >>account, cleverly disguised! Excellent, how did you two manage this one? Did you have a good time at Chrysalis? Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 21:04:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA05943; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA05930; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA26771; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:04:16 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:03:55 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: NRR:cannibis buyer's club slant To: "Ronald Knegtel" Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608060004_MC1-81F-5EEC@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, >>This discussion makes me (as basically an outsider to this issue) wonder how many >>people of this list (among which there are likely to be a few pot smokers or at least >>legalization proponents) are members of organizations like NORML or the medical >>cannabis lobby. I'm not sure about the impact of peoples votes if it's not preceeded >>by lobbying, advertizing and in general making some facts known to the general public >>which is still being brainwashed by the DEA, the local and federal government etc. The Dutchman has a point here. The public is still being fed a disproportionate amount of disinformation on the subject of drug prohibition in general. And Marijuana's medicinal uses in particular. I have signed petitions when they were presented to me. But, there needs to be more people willing to help educate mainstream America about the costs involved in the war on drugs, seizure laws, incarceration, and medical issues both pro and con. Without this angle, even lobbying won't get you anywhere, because there will be no public support should such a measure or law come up for a vote. Protests can only benefit the cause, if you can get some kind of unbiased media coverage to make sure the people who might be sympathetic to your cause are reached. It doesn't help if your protest is percieved by the majority to be without merit due to the slant some a reporter has put on the facts in a 15 second slot. Here in Sacto. I have seen nothing on the news that portrays the club as positive. No interviews with the AIDS or cancer patients that will be so adversely affected by the government's actions in this case. Even a 10 second spot, with one person, could pull the public's heart strings enough to make a difference, if not now, in the future when a measure comes up for a vote. If anyone has info about NORML or sister organizations, I would be interested. Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 21:05:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA05972; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dub-img-1.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA05967; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id AAA18153; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:04:28 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:03:59 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: oils? To: "THX1138" Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608060004_MC1-81F-5EED@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, >>Being a massage therspist, I have one word for lotion, please not. The massage oils I >>use, I feel and know are much better than oily, slimely, clothes staining, un-natural lotion. I totally agree with you on this one. Maybe you could put some information onto the list regarding the various types of oils and location where happy ravers could pick them up. I know that here in Sacramento, food co-ops are one of the most accessably places to purchase oils. They are sold by the ounce; you bring in or purchase a small bottle, and just fill it up. Alot of people frequent these co-ops for their organic/ vegan cooking needs anyway. If your really into it, various scents can be added to the bulk oils. These essences are the basis for aromatherapy, and add an extra dimension to the massage. i.e. calming, warmth, alertness etc. Let the creativity flow... Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 21:37:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA08627; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA08614; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:37:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA8254 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:37:12 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960806043606.00c1a8c4@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 21:36:06 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "THX1138" Subject: Anyone Want To Go.... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; Anyone want to go to a movie, I'm going to see Chain Reaction at the Emery Bay 10. Call 800-590-4993 if interested in joining me. Peace Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 21:47:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA09550; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:47:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA09543; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:47:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (sandoz@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id VAA25852 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:47:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: pluto.sfsu.edu: sandoz owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 21:47:42 -0700 (PDT) From: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG X-Sender: sandoz@pluto Reply-To: TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: MAD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Where is Mad? Can't seem to see it on the guide? Tristan. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 22:06:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id WAA10969; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom4.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id WAA10959; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom4.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id WAA21878; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:06:41 -0700 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199608060506.WAA21878@netcom4.netcom.com> Subject: Re: MAD location To: sandoz@sfsu.edu Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:06:40 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "TRISTAN BERNARD BLAUG" at Aug 5, 96 09:47:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ to sfraves list ] > > Where is Mad? Can't seem to see it on the guide? > Tristan. It's at the Bahia Cabana restaurant/club at 1600 Market St. I think that's at the intersection of Franklin, Page, and Market . Going southwest on Market , past Van Ness, the club will be at a corner, on the right. Enjoy ! Larry Ching/larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 22:24:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id WAA12469; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id WAA12461; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INX-10225.planet-jubip.com ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA9167; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:24:10 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960806052305.00c16a30@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 22:23:05 -0700 To: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> From: "THX1138" Subject: Oils & Massage Cc: sfraves Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dear All; I personally like water dispersible combination oils the best. When I say combination oils I mean oils which are made of 2 or more different oils eg Hybrid Safflower, Hazelnut, Pecan, Grape Speed, Sesame, Almond ...etc. Try and find oils that are all natural(including the scents if scented) & without preservatives. Also, purchase products that state that they use NO animal testing. I also use different makes & scents in different life situations ....eg I have different unscented & scented oils for clients than I do for friends & lovers. The aroma association is not a wise one because you never want to link your bedroom to your business. In my school of thought it's absolutely and totally unethical to have sexual relations with a client(someone who pays you money for the massage). I hold a state license and am bound by a code of ethics set forth by the AMTA( American Massage Therapy association) and also strongly & personally believe in them. The two scented oils I use for friends and lovers are One On One's Honeysuckle & Mango Peligroso; available at GNS(The General Nutrition Store). They smell editable, and I image they are because they have only natural ingredients and also have a very passionate essence to them. Because I'm a therapist and when I'm practicing I usually use an oil that is not scented, unless requested otherwise. In my training and school of massage thought it's considered improper to use a scent that is not picked by the person receiving the massage. The person giving the massage should NOT put anything that theirs onto the person receiving it; a scent picked by the therapist would be an example of this. Also, in the practice of massage the massage is about the person receiving it, and should NOT fulfill any needs of the person giving it. It's a wondrously special gift/experience from someone else to yourself. I've experienced some of the most cosmic experiences on the table. There are times, and without the aid of drugs I've experienced narcotic like states in which I dream. In these states I'm totally disconnected from my body; also floating above it, meaning I can't even feel the therapist working on me; but I can hear. On the occasions when I dream I never remember what I dream, until I find myself there in the middle of dey-sza-vu experience and it all comes back to me. Go out and get yourself one today, you deserve it, your body deserves it; what have you done for your body today? Peace & Massage Brian At 12:03 AM 8/6/96 -0400, Jason C. Lundy wrote: >>>Being a massage therspist, I have one word for lotion, please not. The massage oils I >>>use, I feel and know are much better than oily, slimely, clothes staining, un-natural lotion. >I totally agree with you on this one. Maybe you could put some information onto the list >regarding the various types of oils and location where happy ravers could pick them up. >I know that here in Sacramento, food co-ops are one of the most accessably places >to purchase oils. They are sold by the ounce; you bring in or purchase a small bottle, >and just fill it up. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 22:25:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id WAA12613; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id WAA12604; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id WAA17384; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:25:45 -0700 Received: by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id WAA21751; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:25:44 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 22:25:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: NRR:cannibis buyer's club slant To: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> cc: Ronald Knegtel , sfraves In-Reply-To: <199608060004_MC1-81F-5EEC@compuserve.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, Jason C. Lundy wrote: [snip] > Protests can only benefit the cause, if you can get some kind of > unbiased media coverage to make sure the people who might be > sympathetic to your cause are reached. [snip] > > Here in Sacto. I have seen nothing on the news that portrays the club > as positive. No interviews with the AIDS or cancer patients that will be > so adversely affected by the government's actions in this case. Even a > 10 second spot, with one person, could pull the public's heart strings > enough to make a difference, if not now, in the future when a measure > comes up for a vote. [snip] FYI I saw on CNN today (monday) some coverage on that bust and I felt the coverage was pro-medical pot. The spot ended by saying that pot can help AIDS patients and glaucoma patients. Peace Ran -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Aug 5 23:32:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id XAA17929; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 23:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA17922; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 23:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from enigma (enigma.vip.best.com [206.86.223.130]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA23687; Mon, 5 Aug 1996 23:32:31 -0700 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 23:32:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199608060632.XAA23687@dns1.noc.best.net> X-Sender: enigma@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Todd Manley/Santa Clara/HDS From: "E. Nygma" Subject: Re: NRR: Record Cleaners Cc: sfraves Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 01:26 PM 8/5/96, Todd Manley/Santa Clara/HDS wrote: >Hello everybody- > > I need to clean some records, and I'm wondering what's the best tools for >doing this. Somebody told me that rubbing alcohol and a lint rag work, but I'd >like to get other suggestions. Thanx! Don't use alcohol, detergents, or tap water. Alcohol will degrade the PVC on the records. Detergents and tap water leave deposits on the records, leaving them in noisier shape than before you started. I only use Discwasher D4 cleaning fluid and brush. Ususally, just three drops on the brush will do the trick. Also, using an anti-static gun helps to prevent dust from accumulating on the record, and reduces static noise on the stylus. George From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 00:01:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id AAA21570; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emout08.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA21564; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:01:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Juhstyn@aol.com Received: by emout08.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA08988 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 03:03:12 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 03:03:12 -0400 Message-ID: <960806030311_172732811@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Hi kids! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, I'm back from the AZ/NV border, and ready to read these billion point two messages...looks like I've got my work cut out for me... But I shoulder the burdon joyously! Hope y'all had as spectacular a weekend as I did! -Juhstyn From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 00:02:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id AAA21631; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emout15.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA21626; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:02:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Juhstyn@aol.com Received: by emout15.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA11276 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 03:03:43 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 03:03:43 -0400 Message-ID: <960806030342_172732874@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: No Nitrous campaign? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Nitrous is good. Idiots are bad -Juhstyn From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 00:16:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id AAA22876; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw.fsr.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA22867; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Maxine.lewiston.com (ppp233.lewiston.com [204.227.174.233]) by mail-gw.fsr.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA24094 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:16:43 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:16:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199608060716.AAA24094@mail-gw.fsr.net> X-Sender: tuskluv@mail.lewiston.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Wowser Subject: Democracy Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk (Just some thoughts on our "Democracy") We don't live in a democracy and we never have. But even "our" government officals speak of the great democracy. This rhetoric has never been right, and it will never be right until reformation occurs. The "U" "S" in USA means United States...which is a UNION of states. If you don't agree, read the Constitution or Bill of Rights. They speak of union, not democracy. Up until the New Deal and FDR we were doing ok, but FDR set up socialism with excessive government intervention after the war. Power was stripped from the states, and this is when socialism took roots in America. Sadly, we are still in the throws of socialism. For all you socialists out there, it doesn't work and it never will. History has clearly proven this. People need freedom, an identity and the ability to do right OR screw up and pay the price; not to mention a real voice. In socialism, we might just as well implant that chip in our brain now and all wear the same uniforms. If the USA keeps up at its current rate, it won't be long. The government has taken responsiblity for everyone and everything. It has lulled the masses into beleiving they are not responsible for themselves. It has become its own living entity of sorts, like a beast, and will not go quietly. Socialism and communism are the same thing, with only a different approach. And this is where the US in now. Teetering on full-blown socialism or communism (but given a different name of course, to avoid provoking Jane/John Q. Public). Voting and a democracy are two very different ideals in the USA. Since the electorial college and "representatives" which actually decide what laws should be put on the books, who should be president, who should be in elected office, etc., the act of voting does little these days. The only way to let our voice be heard is to beat the government at its own game and go through the "proper" channels so to speak. Lobby. Work it! Of course, we do not have to go quietly either. With regards to Pot and the bust in SF, I think that weed should be legalized. Alchohol and tobacco are legal, and are much worse for you. The news reports have convinced me that the establishment in SF was raided because it was selling to far too many people who were not ill, nor sick, nor medically needy. Sadly to say, greed caused this problem. And greed, my friends, is a very real enemy. In lieu of only blaming the government, why not those who abused their privilages? Anyways, I encourage everyone to keep voting, but also to become much more involved with what "our" government is doing. Speak up or shut up, right? Love, Troy J. ******************************************************** ... -listen: there's a universe called Hell just right next door; let's go! NOT! - t. g. johnson ******************************************************** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 00:29:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id AAA23657; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw.fsr.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA23651; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Maxine.lewiston.com (ppp233.lewiston.com [204.227.174.233]) by mail-gw.fsr.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA24469 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:29:55 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 00:29:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199608060729.AAA24469@mail-gw.fsr.net> X-Sender: tuskluv@mail.lewiston.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Wowser Subject: Mind....Alter Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The MIND is the alter. The BODY is the temple. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 02:40:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id CAA07678; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 02:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id CAA07591; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 02:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.215.97.130] (h97-130.ccnet.com [192.215.97.130]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id CAA19190; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 02:40:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: marcy@host.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 02:43:12 -0700 To: Tom Leichardt From: marcy@elusive.com (Marcy Swenson) Subject: Re: place to live in north bay??? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ben is totally cool, surprisingly wise for 19, and I bet he'd make a great roommate. And if he moves up here, we'll get to see him more often. ;) --Marcy >heres a message from a raver friend of mine... >--------------------forwarded shit------------------------------ > >I need a room or a space to reside. My name is Ben. I rave, and I >currently live in Santa Cruz. Somethin by sept. 1 would be 0.k. I don't >have any pets, but I have some records. I am really nice to most people too. >Oh,I'm 19, male, and I have a car, and a licencce, and i'm insured. >I don't have a phone, so contact tom. > >________________-end other message-_____________________________ > >*ahau* > tom _________________________________________________________________________ Marcy Swenson 415.695.9471 marcy@elusive.com fax.695.9466 _________________________________________________________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 08:39:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id IAA06681; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA06676; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 205.134.228.49 (ppp049-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.49]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id IAA16038 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 08:39:02 -0700 Message-ID: <3207755A.7E0E@sirius.com> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 08:39:58 -0800 From: inertia X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: San Francisco Raves Subject: FLY! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello everyone! Dano here. Thanks to all who dropped in last Tuesday, we appreciate the support and hope to see you again tonight. For those of you who missed us- we missed you! And we hope you can come down 111 Minna st. for our new weekly club called Fly! Featuring Dj's Dano & Keith plus weekly guests. The music will be eclectic but most likely a broad range of trippy house with dashes of trance and a hint of techno!!! MMM....goood! TNT Blast! will be providing a live video mixing extravaganza which should be superb! We will begin around 9:30 and hopefully will go until 2:30 or 3:00. Donations appreciated to help cover our costs. We hope to see you all there showing your support and smiles :) Feel free to contact me for answers. Peace Dano From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 09:07:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA09387; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ns2.eds.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA09381; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ns2.eds.com (hello) id MAA06495; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:07:54 -0400 Received: from spot (spot.hds.eds.com [199.228.179.61]) by nnsp.eds.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA17495 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from notes.hds.eds.com by spot (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA03928; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:05:40 +0800 Received: by notes.hds.eds.com (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.2)/1.0) id AA1509; Tue, 06 Aug 96 09:04:24 -0400 Message-Id: <9608061304.AA1509@notes.hds.eds.com> Received: by HDS (Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP V1.1) id 98BE8C514D852422882563790053D6A9; Tue, 6 Aug 96 09:04:22 To: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Cc: sfraves From: Todd Manley/Santa Clara/HDS Date: 6 Aug 96 9:05:35 Subject: Re: Mix tape X-Importance: High Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi Jason- You are definitely right about the output level falling off towards the end of the tape. I forgot to mention this to my friends who now have possesion of this tape. The story behind this is that the phone rang during the last song, and instead of turning down the volume on the amp or just moving to another room, I lowered the level output on the channel that the song was coming through. I guess you live and learn. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the tape, and I'll probably have a new one ready soon in the future. And here is my two cents on this DJ mixtape idea. I like it, but I'm way too busy right now to help organizing it. Maybe some time down the road I'll be able to contribute. -Todd From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 09:27:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA11392; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:27:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inreach.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA11387; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp2060.inreach.com (ppp1087.inreach.com [205.138.245.87]) by inreach.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA18139; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960806163030.11df6ed6@mail.inreach.com> X-Sender: gutman@mail.inreach.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Nancy Shaw From: A-RON Subject: Re: Techno Surprise on a Dreary Monday Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 07:09 PM 8/5/96 -0700, you wrote: > >beautiful ambient. Then, it gives way to pumping bass, and takes me >away. I am suddenly alert, tingling, on this dark cold day. Strange >sounds start morphing into almost-decipherable words. Then, the >suggestions become more and more intelligible, and it comes together: >"Marijuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse, ecstasy is the BOMB!" >Over and over again. The original sample "Marijuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse, LSD is the bomb." is from an old Dragnet episode.. =) I was watching TV one day when I saw this and laughed my ass off. The episode is about the Dragnet cops Friday and umm.. the other guy talking to someone who is supposed to be Timothy Leary about LSD and drug use. They spend the entire episode inside his house in LA giving him a lecture on drugs.. Aaron. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 09:41:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA12513; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:41:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA12508; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:41:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id JAA20658; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:40:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199608061640.JAA20658@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Re: Techno Surprise on a Dreary Monday To: gutman@inreach.com (A-RON) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 09:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Cc: nancys@ucdata.Berkeley.EDU, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19960806163030.11df6ed6@mail.inreach.com> from "A-RON" at Aug 6, 96 09:33:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk It sounds like that old Radioactive Goldfish song that was popular in early '92. Other samples included "The world...is changing" and "The beutiful world of lsd" Somewhere I once saw the video, it had a bunch of Koyanistaqsi clips in it. I actually have this orange 12"!, along with Eon's "The spice must flow" and an autographed N-Joi 12"!!!!! memories, -troy > > At 07:09 PM 8/5/96 -0700, you wrote: > > > >beautiful ambient. Then, it gives way to pumping bass, and takes me > >away. I am suddenly alert, tingling, on this dark cold day. Strange > >sounds start morphing into almost-decipherable words. Then, the > >suggestions become more and more intelligible, and it comes together: > >"Marijuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse, ecstasy is the BOMB!" > >Over and over again. > > The original sample "Marijuana is the flame, heroin is the fuse, LSD is the > bomb." is from an old Dragnet episode.. =) I was watching TV one day when I > saw this and laughed my ass off. The episode is about the Dragnet cops > Friday and umm.. the other guy talking to someone who is supposed to be > Timothy Leary about LSD and drug use. They spend the entire episode inside > his house in LA giving him a lecture on drugs.. > > Aaron. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 10:50:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA19052; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stratacom.strata.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA19033; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 10:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strata.COM (kiwi.strata.com) by stratacom.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gatekeeper.Strata.Com-950201) id AA28400; Tue, 6 Aug 96 10:49:27 PDT Received: from polaris.strata.com by Strata.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/StrataCom-GCA-Kiwi-931007-1) id AA14424; Tue, 6 Aug 96 10:49:26 PDT Received: by polaris.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09471; Tue, 6 Aug 96 10:50:22 PDT Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 10:50:22 PDT From: jlawrenc@stratacom.com (Jeremy Lawrence) Message-Id: <9608061750.AA09471@polaris.strata.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, tuskluv@lewiston.com Subject: Re: Democracy Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Wowser wrote: > (Just some thoughts on our "Democracy") > > We don't live in a democracy and we never have. But even "our" government > officals speak of the great democracy. This rhetoric has never been right, > and it will never be right until reformation occurs. The "U" "S" in USA > means United States...which is a UNION of states. If you don't agree, read > the Constitution or Bill of Rights. They speak of union, not democracy. Yep. The illusion of democracy in the US seems stronger than the reality. > Up until the New Deal and FDR we were doing ok, but FDR set up socialism > with excessive government intervention after the war. Excessive government intervention was (and is) bad. > Power was stripped > from the states, and this is when socialism took roots in America. Sadly, > we are still in the throws of socialism. For all you socialists out there, > it doesn't work and it never will. History has clearly proven this. Depends what "socialism" means. Communism is dead. Good riddance. Socialism as in state-sponsored or community-sponsored welfare and health is alive and well in most of the first world countries, and in many parts of the USA. The Bay area has some excellent public housing schemes, for example. Further afield, even 17 years of right-wing rule in the UK has left the public health system in excellent shape, along with housing and welfare schemes adequate for their needs. If the British _conservatives_ see the need for socialist measures, maybe socialism isn't such a bad thing after all? > People need freedom, an identity and the ability to do right OR screw up and > pay the price; not to mention a real voice. In socialism, we might just as > well implant that chip in our brain now and all wear the same uniforms. That seems to equate "socialism" with "enormous hierarchy with tendils into all parts of society". Given this definition, your comments about "socialism" are true. But there are other forms of socialism which aren't as sinister or dangerous. > If the USA keeps up at its current rate, it won't be long. The government has > taken responsiblity for everyone and everything. What about the recently-announced welfare cuts? That doesn't seem like the action of a government taking responsiblity for everything. > It has lulled the masses into beleiving they are not responsible > for themselves. I don't think the government is to blame for this. It seems to be more a function of the media pushing messages like "the problems of this country are too big for you to do anything about" and "sit back in your safe little house and we'll keep you happy". > It has become its own living entity of sorts, like a beast, and will > not go quietly. What will become a living entity? Is it socialism itself, or big government? The they are not the same thing. > Socialism and communism are the same thing, with only a different > approach. Approach is everything. Communism approached socialism by means of central control and big government, which proved to be a Bad Thing. Western countries approach socialism by way of varying degrees of democracy, which is by comparison a Good Thing. > [Snip] > > Anyways, I encourage everyone to keep voting, but also to become much more > involved with what "our" government is doing. Speak up or shut up, right? Yep. Jeremy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 11:16:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA21901; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elaine32.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA21891; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:16:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from starchld@localhost) by elaine32.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA26194 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:16:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Kodama Message-Id: <199608061816.LAA26194@elaine32.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Re: Democracy To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:16:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hey happy ravers (and budding revolutionaries), sorry to propogate such a totally NRR thread, but i've really gotta take exception to some of this. > we are still in the throws of socialism. For all you socialists out there, > it doesn't work and it never will. History has clearly proven this. _that_ is a very sweeping statement and certainly needs a lot more support to be convincing. > It has lulled the masses into beleiving they are not responsible > for themselves. IMO sounds like you're arguing for this sort of taxonomy: capitalism (good) = each person responsible for self socialism (bad) = no person responsible for anybody that's just silly - i don't think any rational political/economic theorist would attempt to support socialism under that definition. basically, that set of definitions ends any debate on the merits of socialism by defining socialism to be a system that by definition has no merits! you might try this set of this definitions instead: capitalism = each person responsible only for self socialism = each person primarily responsible for self AND everyone responsible collectively for everyone but within some limits IMO it sounds like actually you are just objecting that in most socialist societies these limits are too loose - that people don't have enough individual freedom and too much communal responsiblity. ok, fine. where to draw those lines is a damn good question. but PLEASE don't just assume that anyone with socialist leanings secretly desires a BIG BROTHER state that wipes their nose and makes their bed for them. it's quite frustrating to be misrepresented that way. thanks! matt. -- |=======================================================================| | | | _surrealism_: formerly a school of art, no longer distinguishable | | from reality. | | | | _Q_: how many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? | | | | _A_: two - one to hold the giraffe, and one to fill the bathtub | | with brightly-colored machine tools. | | | |=======================================================================| -starchld@leland.stanford.edu--the mothership can be reached at 493-4099- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 11:51:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA25462; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA25445; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA28567 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:51:30 -0700 Received: from kcroy.vip.best.com (kcroy.vip.best.com [206.86.4.246]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA15791 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:23:14 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:23:14 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: kcroy@best.com (kcroy) Subject: jgnaut Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >[008] Failure delivering user mail due to mailbag contention. >Mail item was not delivered to: > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----- >Microsoft Mail v3.0 (MAPI 1.0 Transport) IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note >From: kcroy@best.com >To: sfraves@hyperreal.com >Subject: Re: JuggerNOT >Date: 1996-08-05 14:15 >Priority: 3 >Message ID: 1406CB93F6EECF118A35000000000001 >>Jeez, right then and there I would have said "Forget it!" Especially for >>an event that size. If your intuition said "No way" as early as the info >>line, why did you end up going to a way overpriced crappy party? That is >>what I don't understand - I sometimes read reviews of people >>who put themselves through sheer torture in order to have a crummy time at a >>lame rave. My question is *why*? >> >>love, >>Amy > >presale :) > >you know im not sure if I wrote a review yet. Its been a crazy weekend. >You know about the delays >You know about crappy security (which took water bottles, fuqrs - sorry, >but im pretty unforgiving about this, and no free h20 inside) >general confusion. >I dunno, I saw a lot of people out dancing and having a good time. >I kinda put drug dealers and people handing out flyers in the same >league. >If they stay out of the way of my dancing, i don't really care. >Didn't pick up a real ganster vibe, though there were a lot of latino >kids >there (are people mistaking the two?) > >really, the mantra room saved the event for me. certainly not worth $20. >But really nice to be dancing with back to speakers and seeing sun rise >over the boats and have my stpd silly grin echoed by the kids around me. >My >sense of tiem is skewed, but around 1 am ish, there was some great >musi=k >coming out of the setup next to the mantra room. > >take care >KCRoy > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 11:53:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA25755; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA25722; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:50:21 -0700 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.75] (tmcdonnell.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA16196; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 11:50:21 -0700 X-Sender: knucklehead@host.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) Subject: Is today slow on here Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm I just not getting mail or is it slow today. Everyone party hard last night or what? Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 12:06:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA27014; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xinet.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA27002; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DialupEudora by xinet.COM via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) id MAA21740; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:06:09 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:06:04 -0800 To: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead), sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Tony Rotundo Subject: Re: Is today slow on here Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 11:50 AM -0700 8/6/96, Knucklehead wrote: >I'm I just not getting mail or is it slow today. Everyone party hard last >night or what? Actually, there were quite a few wild parties last night. Once we heard you were going to Burning Man, the corks flew, the music started, and the party... wait let me check, shit...it's still going on! Who has time to email when there's so much to celebrate!? =) Glad the BBQ a will be in attendance (and you too!). Now to score some heat resistant paint...hmmm... Tony From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 12:10:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA27478; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stratacom.strata.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA27471; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strata.COM (kiwi.strata.com) by stratacom.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gatekeeper.Strata.Com-950201) id AA00156; Tue, 6 Aug 96 12:10:21 PDT Received: from polaris.strata.com by Strata.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/StrataCom-GCA-Kiwi-931007-1) id AA29959; Tue, 6 Aug 96 12:10:19 PDT Received: by polaris.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09487; Tue, 6 Aug 96 12:11:15 PDT Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 12:11:15 PDT From: jlawrenc@stratacom.com (Jeremy Lawrence) Message-Id: <9608061911.AA09487@polaris.strata.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com, starchld@leland.Stanford.EDU Subject: Re: [NRR] Democracy Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Matt Kodama wrote: > [Wowser wrote:] > > we are still in the throws of socialism. For all you socialists out there, > > it doesn't work and it never will. History has clearly proven this. > > [snip] > > you might try this set of this definitions instead: > > capitalism = each person responsible only for self > socialism = each person primarily responsible for self > AND everyone responsible collectively for everyone > but within some limits > > IMO it sounds like actually you are just objecting that in most socialist > societies these limits are too loose - that people don't have enough > individual freedom and too much communal responsiblity. ok, fine. where > to draw those lines is a damn good question. Well put. My only disagreement with Wowser's post was the way it said "socialism" when it meant "big brother government". Big brother governments can be built on right-wing philosophies as well as left-wing. Nazi Germany is a good example of the former. The US government may be becoming a big brother government, but that is nothing to do with socialism. There countries which are healthier democracies than the US despite being far more left-leaning. Examples: Germany (and most of europe) and Australia. This is debate is infected with old cold-war propaganda: for decades the we were taught that "communism/socialism = bad", so that now, when certain people in the US see something "bad", they immediately label it "socialist". Jeremy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 12:11:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA27538; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dub-img-1.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA27515; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:11:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA15163; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:10:34 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:10:07 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: Techno Surprise on a Dreary Monday To: Nancy Shaw Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608061510_MC1-82F-B31D@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, >Suddenly, waves are coursing through me. The music transports me to that feeling - that >unbelievable feeling - of the anticipation and excitement of trance dancing and soaring >chemical highs and giddy happiness. It is as if the experience is now encoded in my cells, >and it sometimes only needs the sound of the music (the conduit to the original experience) >to take me there again. The brain's powers of association can be such a wonderful thing. I don't have a good deck here at the house, so I find myself listening to my favorite mix tapes while driving about. It completely changes my mood and reaction to the drivers around me. All is well in the universe, as I find myself thinking of the wonderful people I have met and the special places we have created. BA DU BUM, BA DU BUM... Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 12:11:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA27568; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dub-img-7.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA27562; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:11:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA15774; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:10:48 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:10:15 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: NRR: Record Cleaners To: Todd Manley/Santa Clara/HDS Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608061510_MC1-82F-B31F@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, >>I need to clean some records, and I'm wondering what's the best tools for doing this. >>Somebody told me that rubbing alcohol and a lint rag work, but I'd like to get other >>suggestions. Thanx! Some people go as far as to use purpose built machines that spin the records in a solution; some are alcohol based, some aren't. Any contact with the grooves on the records, including playing them, to some degree, can begin to affect the sound quality of the records. How far you are willing to take this, and how much you are willing to spend to keep your vinyl investment maintained, will vary greatly from person to person. The type of paper sleves that come with many records can also be detrimental, in terms of wear. If you are interested in products regarding vinyl care, there is a neat mail order audiophile company that offers free catalogs, Audio Advisor. Their # is 1-800-451-5445. Black Adder mentioned NOT TO USE COMMON DETERGENTS ON YOUR VINYL. Here's another reason: no one wants this residue building on their expensive needles and in turn affecting even more people's records Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 12:14:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA27926; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sco.sco.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA27921; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grandad.pdev.sco.com by sco.sco.COM id ab19708; 6 Aug 96 12:13 PDT Received: from tehama.pdev.sco.com by grandpa.pdev.sco.com id aa06487; 6 Aug 96 12:14 PDT Received: from andrewk.pdev.sco.COM by tehama.sco.com id aa24322; 6 Aug 96 12:08 PDT From: Andrew Knutsen To: tuskluv@lewiston.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Mind....Alter X-Mailer: ScoMail 3.0.Bd MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9608061203.aa26725@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > The MIND is the alter. The BODY is the temple. I don't mind having my mind altered, but I have two temples and they're really only a small part of my body. Andrew ----------------------------------------- Andrew Knutsen andrewk@sco.com Santa Cruz Operation (408) 427-7538 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 12:16:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA28181; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from svpal.svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA28164; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from djtom@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA12092; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:14:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: is today slow on here/MAD To: Knucklehead cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, Knucklehead wrote: > I'm I just not getting mail or is it slow today. Everyone party hard last > night or what? > > > Tim (knucklehead) went to MAD for my first time. a little to housy till jon carel came on:) saw marcy, wayne, BK, and brad among others... joe, thanks for the favor :) see you's next week the glowing raver, tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 12:25:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA29118; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from svpal.svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA29112; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from djtom@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA12529; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:23:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: BSP free beach party To: Happy Ravers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hey ya'll - saturday were getting together for a little daytime beach party near santa cruz. djs so far will be jonathan, knucklehead, and tom, and a few more we havent decided on. the VM is 4o8.955.8638 and 415.525.5o52. i'll post a complete line up in a few days. hope all is well with everyone - enjoy the sun:) *ahau* tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 12:28:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA29488; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:28:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA29479; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:28:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:26:17 -0700 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.75] (tmcdonnell.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA16509; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:26:17 -0700 X-Sender: knucklehead@host.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Tony Rotundo From: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) Subject: Re: Is today slow on here Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: >Actually, there were quite a few wild parties last night. Once we heard >you were going to Burning Man, the corks flew, the music started, and the >party... wait let me check, shit...it's still going on! Who has time to >email when there's so much to celebrate!? Some party, I wasn't even invited ;) Wait for me I want to party. >=) >Glad the BBQ a will be in attendance (and you too!). Now to score some >heat resistant paint...hmmm... > >Tony I think you can probally get it from an automotive place. Maybe a place that is geared more toward race cars. I'm going to check on it. I also will be putting cloth around it with lighter fluid and setting it on fire. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 12:39:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA00843; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA00835; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA10076; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:39:03 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:10:31 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: Chrysalis (newbie perspective) To: Brian Denny Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608061538_MC1-82F-B320@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Welcome, >more positive energy than i've ever seen in one place. i could feel it everywhere, all around >me, positive, loving, electric energy. Remember to carry this energy into the rest of your life, wherever you are. It's contagous :) >thank you everyone on this list for being such a great community, i'm happy to have joined >you... thank you to all those who responded to my newbie queries the other day, you >made me feel welcome here... and an extra special THANK YOU to matt l. and shawna who >personally introduced me to my first rave and took it upon themselves to make sure i had a >great time. i love you guys. I'm glad you had such a wonderful introduction to the community. You couldn't have asked for much better guides than Shawna and Matt for your first outing. I would have liked to have gone to Chysalis this weekend, but a very special birthday/house party here in Sacramento was too good to pass up. I wish more people could host such parties. But, there tends to be too many finicky neighbors to always make this feasible. Thought for the day: Be tolerant of those around you Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 12:45:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA01520; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:45:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA01510; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA21153 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.79.2.38] ([206.79.2.38]) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA18895 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:40:28 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 12:42:39 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: BSP free beach party Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk That's saturday, August _17th_. (don't mislead people with the wrong date, tom. like SOMEONE did on the flyers... =) >hey ya'll - saturday were getting together for a little daytime beach >party near santa cruz. djs so far will be jonathan, knucklehead, and tom, >and a few more we havent decided on. the VM is 4o8.955.8638 and 415.525.5o52. >i'll post a complete line up in a few days. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | | | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | | | | avec le Headlands Band website | | et dj StarEyes aussi! | | | | Michal Migurski | | (408) 264-6604 | | | |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| | | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 13:04:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA03241; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA03233; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:04:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.86.220.227] (bwret.vip.best.com [206.86.220.227]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA06911; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:04:18 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:07:12 -0700 To: knucklehead@club.net (Knucklehead) From: bwret@best.com (Alex Ward) Subject: Re: Is today slow on here Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >I'm I just not getting mail or is it slow today. Everyone party hard last >night or what? > > >Tim (knucklehead) Oh, you weren't at the SFraves meeting/party last night?? We decided that we'd take it easy today after Andy Weatherall and Josh Wink showed up for that surprise set. Thanks for the good time, guys! -alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 13:06:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA03466; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA03458; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id NAA16888; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:06:19 -0700 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id NAA28703; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:06:19 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:06:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Mind....Alter To: Andrew Knutsen cc: tuskluv@lewiston.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9608061203.aa26725@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ROTFL =) On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, Andrew Knutsen wrote: > > > > > The MIND is the alter. The BODY is the temple. > > I don't mind having my mind altered, but I have two temples and they're > really only a small part of my body. Ran -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 13:14:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA04187; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mvgate.isinc.insignia.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA04182; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:12:19 -0700 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Received: from [205.231.222.75] (tmcdonnell.isinc.insignia.com) by mvgate.isinc.insignia.com (5.65c8/UK-2.1.ISL) with SMTP id AA17103; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:12:19 -0700 X-Sender: knucklehead@host.domain.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bwret@best.com (Alex Ward) From: knucklehead@club.net (used, abused, and stepped on!) Subject: Re: Is today slow on here Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk You wrote: >Oh, you weren't at the SFraves meeting/party last night?? We decided that >we'd take it easy today after Andy Weatherall and Josh Wink showed up for >that surprise set. Thanks for the good time, guys! > >-alex And I thought you all loved me! Didn't include me.....(kicking dirt with sad face) I'm going to have a party at my house....nener nener ;) Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 13:19:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA04838; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:19:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from svpal.svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA04780; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from djtom@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA14873; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:17:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: lets talk physics! To: Happy Ravers cc: Cindy Lopez Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ok, i remember learning about standing waves in high school physics, now im trying to remember teh formula for how to create a standing wave in a tube at a specific frequency. the variables go like this: frequency, volume of tube/length, something in coordination with wavelength... anyone? *ahau* tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 13:20:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA04991; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA04981; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA02965 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (trose@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA12385 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:19:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:19:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Anthony Rose To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: hardcore/gabber recomendations? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi everyone! I hope you are all having a wonderful day, I certainly am. I was just listening to this old hardcore tape I have called easy groove, and I have also been jonesing for some faster music since that early morning hardcore set at fnf, as well as the amazing set by sven vath at nikita a few months back...can anyone recomend some good FAST stuff?...I am not really interested in some of the gabber people have talked about with negative energy and negative lyrics...just something that has fast and hard beats...thanks! * * ** *** ***** ******** ************* Tony Rose UC Berkeley CS http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~trose ************** ******* ***** *** ** * * From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 13:25:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA05492; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA05483; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA01595 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (trose@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA12813 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:22:02 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:22:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Anthony Rose To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: nikita/nation... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk so...whos going to see carl cox spin at nikita friday? any thoughts about Nation? the lineup looks rad...two dj's from my once hometown of Orlando FL! I read that it is going to be at pier 45...what is that space like? * * ** *** ***** ******** ************* Tony Rose UC Berkeley CS http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~trose ************** ******* ***** *** ** * * From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 13:30:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA06127; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA06114; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.86.220.227] (bwret.vip.best.com [206.86.220.227]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA09503 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:30:08 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:33:03 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: bwret@best.com (Alex Ward) Subject: Anyone up for outage? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I've got a friend from SanDiego in town and I'm thinking of taking him out tonight. Anyone going to FLY? Anywhere else to check out on a tuesday?? -alex PS- This is totally unrelated, but I hear that the TOP stopped doing it's Jungle night and is playing Disco on Saterdays instead.Ack! Why has Drum'n Bass caught on on the East Coast and not here? Any theories?? Alex Ward bwret@best.com May the Funk be with you...Always. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 13:30:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA06217; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA06209; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA06374; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.79.2.38] ([206.79.2.38]) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA28412; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:28:16 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:30:28 -0700 To: Tom Leichardt From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: lets talk physics! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >ok, i remember learning about standing waves in high school physics, now >im trying to remember teh formula for how to create a standing wave in a >tube at a specific frequency. the variables go like this: frequency, >volume of tube/length, something in coordination with wavelength... > >anyone? visualize it... the length of the tube has to be a multiple of the wavelength. | )| |( | | )| |( | | )| |( | unless the tube is closed at one end, then it's a multiple of the wavelength plus one-half of the wavelength. I'm going to cross-post this to the list because it's desperately in need of some traffic and the day is just c-r-e-e-p-i-n-g by. BTW: tom, why are you asking? -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | | | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | | | | avec le Headlands Band website | | et dj StarEyes aussi! | | | | Michal Migurski | | (408) 264-6604 | | | |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| | | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 13:36:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA06821; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA06798; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA08261 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:36:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.79.2.38] ([206.79.2.38]) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA29058; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:31:27 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:33:38 -0700 To: Paul Anthony Rose From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: nikita/nation... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >so...whos going to see carl cox spin at nikita friday? >any thoughts about Nation? the lineup looks rad...two dj's from my once lineup does look rad, but then again so did Juggernaut's.... Nation looks kinda iffy to me (judging by the info on the flyer); anyone have any idea if they're previous parties were any good? If the sound system being trucked in from all over is the main attraction, what does that say about the other aspects? I'm going to Hunny. -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | | | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | | | | avec le Headlands Band website | | et dj StarEyes aussi! | | | | Michal Migurski | | (408) 264-6604 | | | |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| | | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 13:40:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA07211; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA07197; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA09776 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (trose@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA15841 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:39:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:39:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Anthony Rose To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR netscape security... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ok...I have been browsing my netscape security preferences...and it says that I have accepted site certificates, including att research, mci mall and a bunch of others,...what are these things? * * ** *** ***** ******** ************* Tony Rose UC Berkeley CS http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~trose ************** ******* ***** *** ** * * From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 13:49:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA08267; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trix.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA08256; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (jwiley@localhost) by trix.cisco.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA27998; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:48:48 -0700 From: Jay Wiley Message-Id: <199608062048.NAA27998@trix.cisco.com> Subject: Re: lets talk physics! To: djtom@svpal.org (Tom Leichardt) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Tom Leichardt" at Aug 6, 96 01:17:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The only formula I can remember with out looking anything up is: y=sin(kx-wt) where k (wave number) is: k=(2*pi)/lambda (lambda is the wavelength) and w (angular frequency) is: w=(2*pi)/T (T is the period) x is the horizontal displacement y is the vert. disp. t is the time Don't know that this will help much. The formula for a standing wave in a tube deals with harmonics and I don't remember the equation. j :) > > > ok, i remember learning about standing waves in high school physics, now > im trying to remember teh formula for how to create a standing wave in a > tube at a specific frequency. the variables go like this: frequency, > volume of tube/length, something in coordination with wavelength... > > anyone? > > *ahau* > tom > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 13:55:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA08740; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA08729; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:55:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Sami Khoury Message-Id: <199608062055.NAA08729@taz.hyperreal.com> Subject: Re: NRR netscape security... To: trose@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Paul Anthony Rose) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Paul Anthony Rose" at Aug 6, 96 01:39:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > ok...I have been browsing my netscape security preferences...and it says > that I have accepted site certificates, including att research, mci > mall and a bunch of others,...what are these things? Probably cookies... Sami From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 14:02:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA09557; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA09539; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA17239; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:02:29 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:02:29 -0700 (PDT) To: Knucklehead cc: Tony Rotundo , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Is today slow on here In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, Knucklehead wrote: > You wrote: > > >Actually, there were quite a few wild parties last night. Once we heard > >you were going to Burning Man, the corks flew, the music started, and the > >party... wait let me check, shit...it's still going on! Who has time to > >email when there's so much to celebrate!? > > Some party, I wasn't even invited ;) Wait for me I want to party. > > > >=) > >Glad the BBQ a will be in attendance (and you too!). Now to score some > >heat resistant paint...hmmm... > > > >Tony > > > I think you can probally get it from an automotive place. Maybe a place > that is geared more toward race cars. I'm going to check on it. I also will > be putting cloth around it with lighter fluid and setting it on fire. Naw, you can just go to Grand Auto or Kragen and get it. No speciality speed shops required.... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 14:04:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA09808; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from svpal.svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA09778; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from djtom@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA16920; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:02:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: Re: lets talk physics! To: michal migurski cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, michal migurski wrote: > visualize it... the length of the tube has to be a multiple of the wavelength. > > | )| > |( | > | )| > |( | > | )| > |( | its an open tube, and now i need teh wavelength formula. i cant believe how much of this stuff has rotted outa my brain... im trying to get a specific frequency to resonate, hence teh need for these little formulas. > unless the tube is closed at one end, then it's a multiple of the > wavelength plus one-half of the wavelength. > BTW: tom, why are you asking? aw, come on, give it away? any guesses out there? if all goes well you'll see the conrtapton at your local UG soon:) *ahau* tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 14:06:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA10117; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emout17.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA10112; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:06:49 -0700 (PDT) From: RavenLaFay@aol.com Received: by emout17.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA15122; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:08:12 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:08:12 -0400 Message-ID: <960806170809_379103541@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: trose@uclink2.berkeley.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: nikita/nation... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'll definitely be going to Nation, purely because I'm English and 2 of the UKs top DJs are there (Sasha and John Digweed). It's worth going if only to hear them spin, because they're amazing artists and technically brilliant aswell. The rest of this event I feel doubtful about....especially after my experience with Juggernaut this Saturday. However, Spundae have been known to throw some pretty kicking parties, so who knows. It could be good, but I have no expectations. Yes, it will for sure be at Pier 45. This is a massive warehouse space that has potential with the right decor, and it's really beautiful when the sun rises over the water. Hope to see some of you there. Love and light ***Raven*** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 14:12:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA10785; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA10778; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Thomas To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: [NRR] SF housing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Our tweaker neighbors upstairs are driving us nuts and although we love our place and the area, I think it's time to move on. It's getting really old listening to them re-arrange their furniture every night. So, if anyone out there knows of any nice 1 bdrs. in the $900-$1100 range opening up in the next month, I'd love to hear about it. We need a place that accepts cats, and parking and laundry would major pluses. Yeah, I realize the rental market *really* sux at the moment, but it seems most of the better pads get snagged via word of mouth. tia, Andy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 14:21:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA11467; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw.fsr.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA11461; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Maxine.lewiston.com (ppp226.lewiston.com [204.227.174.226]) by mail-gw.fsr.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA17744 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:22:16 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:22:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199608062122.OAA17744@mail-gw.fsr.net> X-Sender: tuskluv@mail.lewiston.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Wowser Subject: Socialism Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk My fellow Americans (snicker), socialism = Big Brother Government. There is far too much greed and corruption for socialism to become anything else. The government is power hungry and only until recently have they relented some of that power back to the states. I praise the recent welfare reforms! Yahh! But there is still a lot of work to do. Taking care of yourself and everyone else is a wonderous ideal and should be practiced. But in this world, we need not be socialists to accomplish this. It is more a matter of genuine love and concern for your brothers and sisters. To this end, I know of many fantastic people who do just this! In my opinion, the only ones who deserve any type of subsidy are those who are honestly and seriously disabled, widows and orphans. When people talk about taking government checks, they are talking about stealing money from you and I and all other taxpayers. The government has no money of its own, rather it steals it from us. I would gladly give SOME, but not for every type of social program under the sun. The US's "concerned" disguise in recent years has done nothing but create generations whom are welfare dependent and desire nothing better. Why work when someone else will do it for you and give you a percentage? Thus, when I talk of socialism, I think there is only one kind. Big Brother Government. Of course, it makes all the self-proclaimed liberals out there feel better when they think they are helping a problem by throwing my money at it. But I think they are fooling themselves. People must work to survive here. People must take individual responsiblity before they can help others. Why even God was reported to say, "I can not help those who don't first help themselves". I would be interested in hearing other's definitions of socialism. But I hope we can remain cool and just talk openly and without offense. Take care guys and gals and shine!!!!!! Love, Troy J. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 14:29:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA12297; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:29:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sco.sco.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA12291; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grandad.pdev.sco.com by sco.sco.COM id aa00596; 6 Aug 96 14:24 PDT Received: from tehama.pdev.sco.com by grandpa.pdev.sco.com id aa13612; 6 Aug 96 14:24 PDT Received: from andrewk.pdev.sco.COM by tehama.sco.com id aa24749; 6 Aug 96 14:18 PDT From: Andrew Knutsen To: djtom@svpal.org, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: lets talk physics! Cc: fritz@hooked.net X-Mailer: ScoMail 3.0.Bd MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9608061420.aa27508@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Its just a resonant system, where the length of the tube has to be an integral multiple (or integral-and-a-half? I think it depends on whether the tube is open or closed) of the wavelength. Wavelength is related to frequency by the transmission speed, for instance the speed of sound. Theres usually some tricky real-world stuff involved in driving the column correctly. So, for every tube, there is a set of frequencies, corresponding to 1, 2, 3, etc wavelengths, which will resonate (ie, create standing waves). There may also be half and quarter-wave resonances, I can't remember exactly when. Andrew PS things get trickier if you need 2-D or 3-D waves, like for microwaves or some lasers, but I assume you're thinking about digereedoos or something where only one dimension is comparable to the wavelength. AK > From ns.pdev.sco.com!sco.sco.com!taz.hyperreal.com!hyperreal.com!sfraves-owner Tue Aug 6 13:28:50 1996 > Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:17:09 -0700 (PDT) > From: Tom Leichardt > Subject: lets talk physics! > To: Happy Ravers > cc: Cindy Lopez > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com > > > ok, i remember learning about standing waves in high school physics, now > im trying to remember teh formula for how to create a standing wave in a > tube at a specific frequency. the variables go like this: frequency, > volume of tube/length, something in coordination with wavelength... > > anyone? > > *ahau* > tom ----------------------------------------- Andrew Knutsen andrewk@sco.com Santa Cruz Operation (408) 427-7538 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 14:31:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA12471; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA12461; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom7.netcom.com (larryc@netcom7.netcom.com [192.100.81.115]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA16584 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from larryc@localhost) by netcom7.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id OAA20602; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:30:10 -0700 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199608062130.OAA20602@netcom7.netcom.com> Subject: physics/flamepipe/didjeridu To: djtom@svpal.org (Tom Leichardt) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, MaryP76944@aol.com, larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) In-Reply-To: from "Tom Leichardt" at Aug 6, 96 02:02:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk [ seduced aain into posting to SFRaves ] Hi Tom - Did some web searching: http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/demobook/chapter3.htm has an experiment with sound waves in a pipe . The pipe is atteched to a supply of lab gas and there are holes drilled every inch or so. Theend opposite the gas supply end has a loudspeaker attached in an airtight fashion. The gas coming out of the pinholes is lit, and the frequency of sound from the speaker is varied. The height of the flames mirror the intensity of the standing wave at each hole location! Sounds like a neat ( but dangerous ) sculpture for a rave! Experiment depends on speed of sound in methane, but the speed of sound in ordinary air is given elsewhere on the page. And - the mother of all didjeridu sites: http://www.mills.edu/LIFE/CCM/DIDJERIDU/didjeridu.homepage.html Calls itself the "Didjeridu WWW Server" . Has a link to didjeridu construction, so they probably have a discussion of pipes and acoustic standing waves and tones and such. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 14:36:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA12953; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:36:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA12940; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id OAA26515; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:36:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199608062136.OAA26515@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Re: Socialism To: tuskluv@lewiston.com (Wowser) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199608062122.OAA17744@mail-gw.fsr.net> from "Wowser" at Aug 6, 96 02:22:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The amount of money that welfare reciepients are "stealing" from us is extremely small compared to the amount of money the Pentagon and related Defense Contractors are stealing from us. the Pentagon does not even want or need 150 or so new C-130 cargo planes yet the government is giving them the money for them anyway. Why is the government spending so much on the military? When the time comes when the people decide that our government needs to be ousted, they will use everything in their power to keep power. Bombs. Rockets. Missles. Helicopters raining death. Don't think they would hesitate to use all of these against revolting Americans to keep their power. Lets look beyond what the corperate-controlled media is spoon-feeding us and determine the real problems in this country. It sure as hell ain't welfare recipients. Remember that Media Coprerations are just Corperations, and they will say whatever it takes to keep the laws in their favor. Very sorry for the non-rave content, it will be my last public post on this subject. -troy > > My fellow Americans (snicker), socialism = Big Brother Government. > > There is far too much greed and corruption for socialism to become anything > else. The government is power hungry and only until recently have they > relented some of that power back to the states. I praise the recent welfare > reforms! Yahh! But there is still a lot of work to do. Taking care of > yourself and everyone else is a wonderous ideal and should be practiced. > But in this world, we need not be socialists to accomplish this. It is more > a matter of genuine love and concern for your brothers and sisters. To this > end, I know of many fantastic people who do just this! > > In my opinion, the only ones who deserve any type of subsidy are those who > are honestly and seriously disabled, widows and orphans. When people talk > about taking government checks, they are talking about stealing money from > you and I and all other taxpayers. The government has no money of its own, > rather it steals it from us. I would gladly give SOME, but not for every > type of social program under the sun. The US's "concerned" disguise in > recent years has done nothing but create generations whom are welfare > dependent and desire nothing better. Why work when someone else will do it > for you and give you a percentage? Thus, when I talk of socialism, I think > there is only one kind. Big Brother Government. Of course, it makes all > the self-proclaimed liberals out there feel better when they think they are > helping a problem by throwing my money at it. But I think they are fooling > themselves. People must work to survive here. People must take individual > responsiblity before they can help others. Why even God was reported to > say, "I can not help those who don't first help themselves". > > I would be interested in hearing other's definitions of socialism. But I > hope we can remain cool and just talk openly and without offense. Take care > guys and gals and shine!!!!!! > > Love, > > Troy J. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 14:37:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA13182; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arl-img-1.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA13129; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA23222; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:37:21 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:31:31 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: NRR: Buyer's club media coverage To: Randy C Cone Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608061737_MC1-853-4548@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, >I saw on CNN today (monday) some coverage on that bust and I felt the coverage was >pro-medical pot. The spot ended by saying that pot can help AIDS patients and glaucoma >patients. Thanks for the info. It's encouraging. I almost never watch television news anymore due to their bias and lack of informative stories, prefering to fill broadcasts with emotional black holes. Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 14:38:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA13225; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dub-img-1.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA13216; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA20368; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:37:28 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:31:38 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: Democracy To: Wowser Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608061737_MC1-853-4549@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, >The news reports have convinced me that the establishment in SF was raided because it was >selling to far too many people who were not ill, nor sick, nor medically needy. Sadly to say, >greed caused this problem. And greed, my friends, is a very real enemy. In lieu of only >blaming the government, why not those who abused their privilages? I am not sure to what extent I believe anything that I see on television. Public TV's news seems to be the only sector of this media form that at least makes an attempt (?) to represent both sides of a given story and foster a debate on the subject. I'm interested in hearing any of the specifics that may surface regarding this incident. If the people responsible for growing or selling marijuana for medicinal purposes were indeed involved in selling to the general public, then they ARE guilty of jeopardizing the health of those they were trying to help. Greed is such an ugly thing. >Anyways, I encourage everyone to keep voting, but also to become much more involved with >what "our" government is doing. Speak up or shut up, right? Amen brother! Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 14:52:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA14665; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spain.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA14652; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:52:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [153.37.82.97] (pool033.Max3.Santa-Clara.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.82.97]) by spain.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA27716 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:52:29 +0200 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: exodus@earthlink.net (Austin) Subject: Enit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well after reading some postes on socal raves, the event in LA is 37.50. Tix through ticketmaster and the event in La includesMeat Beat Manifesto, The Orb, Love & Rockets and porno for pyros. Still, if this is going to be the line up for the event up here I'll save my cash for Burning Man(mostly because all my cash is going into school and moving). Peace Austin . . __/-^-\__ . . . . . <<<>>> . . . @ . `'\-*-/`' . . . . . = . . /|\ . . . . . . / | \ . . . / | \ . . . . . / / | \ \. . . . / / | \ \ . . . = . . / / / | \ \ \ . . . . . / / / | \ \ \ . . = . . / / / / | \ \ \ \. . . . . / / / / | \ \ \ \ . . _@_/` ~\_e_/~ _G/ O ~\_Q_ ~\_8_| _9_ . . ~/ }} (*) < =99 /|\ (.)\, [#] ,/ }}\, \\ /| ~\/ \ _=3D=3D=3D___=3D=3D=3D_ // / \ /\/ = . // \\ / [___________] \\ \ / \ ~~ ~~ ~ ^ ^ ~~ ~ ~ ~ . . From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 15:04:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA15867; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sco.sco.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA15859; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grandad.pdev.sco.com by sco.sco.COM id ab03736; 6 Aug 96 15:03 PDT Received: from tehama.pdev.sco.com by grandpa.pdev.sco.com id aa15238; 6 Aug 96 15:04 PDT Received: from andrewk.pdev.sco.COM by tehama.sco.com id aa24842; 6 Aug 96 14:59 PDT From: Andrew Knutsen To: trose@uclink2.berkeley.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NRR netscape security... X-Mailer: ScoMail 3.0.Bd MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 14:56:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9608061456.aa27715@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk When you get a secure netscape link, you're supposed to be able to track the crypto data which forms the basis for the security back to some "trusted" crypto data you already have. A certificate is basically a bit of data which identifies who you are talking to and mentions a "certifying authority", who you should already trust. You'll see this both in the security options, which I think are the ones you already trust (didn't know that? :-), and in "view->document info" when you have a secure connection. Andrew PS actually this is the "secure sockets layer", which is not netscape-proprietary. If you want to know more look up ISO standard X.509. AK > From ns.pdev.sco.com!sco.sco.com!taz.hyperreal.com!hyperreal.com!sfraves-owner Tue Aug 6 13:59:06 1996 > Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:39:22 -0700 (PDT) > From: Paul Anthony Rose > To: sfraves@hyperreal.com > Subject: NRR netscape security... > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com > > ok...I have been browsing my netscape security preferences...and it says > that I have accepted site certificates, including att research, mci > mall and a bunch of others,...what are these things? > > * * ** *** ***** ******** ************* > Tony Rose > UC Berkeley CS > http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~trose > ************** ******* ***** *** ** * * > ----------------------------------------- Andrew Knutsen andrewk@sco.com Santa Cruz Operation (408) 427-7538 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 15:14:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA16746; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stratacom.strata.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA16733; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strata.COM (kiwi.strata.com) by stratacom.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gatekeeper.Strata.Com-950201) id AA04612; Tue, 6 Aug 96 15:13:28 PDT Received: from polaris.strata.com by Strata.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/StrataCom-GCA-Kiwi-931007-1) id AA07142; Tue, 6 Aug 96 15:13:28 PDT Received: by polaris.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09520; Tue, 6 Aug 96 15:14:24 PDT Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 15:14:24 PDT From: jlawrenc@stratacom.com (Jeremy Lawrence) Message-Id: <9608062214.AA09520@polaris.strata.com> To: tuskluv@lewiston.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Reply-To: jlawrenc@cisco.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Wowser wrote: > My fellow Americans (snicker), socialism = Big Brother Government. > > There is far too much greed and corruption for socialism to become anything > else. This is true only in systems like communism where there are inadequate checks and balances on power. Socialism within a democracy does not necessarily imply big government. Example: in New Zealand, state-subsidised health and housing are administered by corporations separate from the government and administration. These corporations are run along lines which would make Wall Street proud. Bosses get bonuses according to how efficiently they deliver services. > Taking care of > yourself and everyone else is a wonderous ideal and should be practiced. > But in this world, we need not be socialists to accomplish this. It is more > a matter of genuine love and concern for your brothers and sisters. To this > end, I know of many fantastic people who do just this! Ok, here we get down to splitting hairs of definition. IMHO, if a society has a sufficiently large number of people doing as you suggest, then that society *is* a form of socialism. > [snip] > But I think they are fooling themselves. People must work to survive > here. People must take individual responsiblity before they can help > others. This is a tricky issue: how do we help people without discouraging them from helping themselves? I don't have the answer, but I'm deeply suspicious of simple answers like simply giving up and saying "we won't give out welfare because that'll just make them lazy". Cutting back on welfare is false economy: it increases poverty and crime, which may well end up costing each of us more than welfare taxes ever did. > I would be interested in hearing other's definitions of socialism. But I > hope we can remain cool and just talk openly and without offense. Take care > guys and gals and shine!!!!!! Sure! Personally, I agree with much of what you are saying, it's just that I think you're applying the wrong label ("socialism") to what we both don't like: manipulative, interfering government. Jeremy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 15:22:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA17336; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:22:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horatio.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA17330; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from knegtel@localhost) by horatio.ucsf.EDU (940816.SGI.8.6.9/GSC4.24) id PAA26617 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:22:04 -0700 From: "Ronald Knegtel" Message-Id: <9608061522.ZM26615@horatio.ucsf.edu> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:22:03 -0700 In-Reply-To: Wowser "Socialism" (Aug 6, 2:22pm) References: <199608062122.OAA17744@mail-gw.fsr.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Aug 6, 2:22pm, Wowser wrote: > Subject: Socialism > My fellow Americans (snicker), socialism = Big Brother Government. Ah, that doesn't mean me. > There is far too much greed and corruption for socialism to become anything > else. Greed and corruption is not unique for socialism. It actually perverst any polital system known to man (and religion, this one especially for you) [snip] > I praise the recent welfare reforms! Yahh! Let's first see how they work out. We might be in for some surprises since there will a lot of people without money and not all of them may find a job that easy. > But there is still a lot of work to do. Taking care of > yourself and everyone else is a wonderous ideal and should be practiced. I'm glad you think so. > But in this world, we need not be socialists to accomplish this. It is more > a matter of genuine love and concern for your brothers and sisters. Which is what socialism was originally based upon, love for the people that the rich and mighty didn't seem to care for. As with any system, it has its problems. >To this end, I know of many fantastic people who do just this! It's hard to see this work for an entire nation though. > In my opinion, the only ones who deserve any type of subsidy are those who > are honestly and seriously disabled, widows and orphans. Where I'm from, the government allows people to be unemployed for a period of time, to get either their act together, get an education, apply for jobs. It gives people time to breath. It will certainly be misused by some but then again also many people try to pay less taxes then they're supposed to and nobody seems to have problems with that. As a European, it seems that many of the social problems in the US actually have to do with the lack of any social safety net leaving no other option than crime to survive. I'm still fascinated by how fast somebody can go from being an average working class person to being homeless here, just by misfortune, not being able to pay insurance etc. > When people talk > about taking government checks, they are talking about stealing money from > you and I and all other taxpayers. In Holland we feel that each of us can fall back on welfare in case we get in to some sort of trouble (lose our jobs, get sick etc.) We all pay for it and in case we need it, it is there for all of us. > The government has no money of its own, rather it steals it from us. Ah, a freeman. Well, some of that money is also used to your benefit I would say, to build schools, roads etc. You wouldn't want to do that all by yourself, would you? That's the idea, everybody contributes some and we all profit by more safety, quality of life etc. > I would gladly give SOME, but not for every > type of social program under the sun. That's why you are allowed to vote. > The US's "concerned" disguise in > recent years has done nothing but create generations whom are welfare > dependent and desire nothing better. I wonder how many people are really happy with living on welfare. Although I don't know the exact numbers I'd say its usually just enough to get by on. Have _you_ ever lived a "luxurious" life on welfare? > Why work when someone else will do it > for you and give you a percentage? Because you will have little money to spend/get bored/meet no people etc.? > Thus, when I talk of socialism, I think there is only one kind. > Big Brother Government. And when I think of Big Brother Government I think of Watergate, laws that try to restrict the Internet, what people do with their own lives and deaths, that sells your country's nature to Disney and MacDonalds etc. Every political system has its drawback's but you're problems seem more to be with: > the self-proclaimed liberals out there [who] feel better when they think they are > helping a problem by throwing my money at it. Your hard earned money. And what about those bad self-proclaimed conservatives who feel better when they think they are helping a problem by cutting off the money. Both have their (dis)advantages, calling names doesn't help and usually simple solutions to complicated problems don't work. > But I think they are fooling > themselves. People must work to survive here. Yep, survival of the fittest, may the rest rot in hell. > Why even God was reported to > say, "I can not help those who don't first help themselves". But then again God seems to be the most powerless being in the universe judging by the state the world is in. > I would be interested in hearing other's definitions of socialism. But I > hope we can remain cool and just talk openly and without offense. Take care > guys and gals and shine!!!!!! The "self-proclaimed liberals out there" really gave you away in my eyes. Enough said on this subject as far as I am concerned (sorry Oliver...). > Love of money, > > Troy J. >-- End of excerpt from Wowser The Frying Dutchman -- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 15:41:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA19243; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:41:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA19237; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA21165; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:41:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (trose@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA10758; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:35:59 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:35:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Anthony Rose To: Andrew Knutsen cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR netscape security... In-Reply-To: <9608061456.aa27715@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, Andrew Knutsen wrote: > > When you get a secure netscape link, you're supposed to be able to track > the crypto data which forms the basis for the security back to some "trusted" > crypto data you already have. A certificate is basically a bit of data which > identifies who you are talking to and mentions a "certifying authority", who you > should already trust. You'll see this both in the security options, which I > think are the ones you already trust (didn't know that? :-), OK...I am getting some idea...but what does it mean that i "trust" these people? Do yhey have a site certificate to my site(computer), if so, what access do they get with this? > "view->document info" when you have a secure connection. > > Andrew > > PS actually this is the "secure sockets layer", which is not > netscape-proprietary. If you want to know more look up ISO standard X.509. > AK > > > From ns.pdev.sco.com!sco.sco.com!taz.hyperreal.com!hyperreal.com!sfraves-owner > Tue Aug 6 13:59:06 1996 > > Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 13:39:22 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Paul Anthony Rose > > To: sfraves@hyperreal.com > > Subject: NRR netscape security... > > Message-ID: > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com > > > > ok...I have been browsing my netscape security preferences...and it says > > that I have accepted site certificates, including att research, mci > > mall and a bunch of others,...what are these things? > > > > * * ** *** ***** ******** ************* > > Tony Rose > > UC Berkeley CS > > http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~trose > > ************** ******* ***** *** ** * * > > > ----------------------------------------- > Andrew Knutsen andrewk@sco.com > Santa Cruz Operation (408) 427-7538 > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 15:48:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA19779; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:48:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id PAA19773; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from well (surfpunk@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id PAA08901 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:48:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Cyr Subject: looking for . . . To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk justin (datura) anyone know how to contact him? thanks jim cyr From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 16:14:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA22827; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:14:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sco.sco.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA22820; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grandad.pdev.sco.com by sco.sco.COM id aa08236; 6 Aug 96 16:13 PDT Received: from tehama.pdev.sco.com by grandpa.pdev.sco.com id aa17020; 6 Aug 96 16:14 PDT Received: from andrewk.pdev.sco.COM by tehama.sco.com id aa25020; 6 Aug 96 16:09 PDT From: Andrew Knutsen To: trose@uclink2.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: NRR netscape security... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: ScoMail 3.0.Bd MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:07:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9608061607.aa28067@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > When you get a secure netscape link, you're supposed to be able to track > > the crypto data which forms the basis for the security back to some "trusted" > > crypto data you already have. A certificate is basically a bit of data which > > identifies who you are talking to and mentions a "certifying authority", who you > > should already trust. You'll see this both in the security options, which I > > think are the ones you already trust (didn't know that? :-), > > OK...I am getting some idea...but what does it mean that i "trust" these > people? Do yhey have a site certificate to my site(computer), if so, what > access do they get with this? > This is getting off raves, but basically the web is very client-server oriented so "they" don't really get any access you don't give to them, either by putting something in a form or executing a Java applet (or a Javascript...). The basic idea to to prevent malicious third parties from interfering with or watching your session. You have to trust someone to tell you you're talking to who you think you are ("on the Internet, no-one knows you're a dog"). Your browser comes with a certain amount of built-in trust (how sweet :-). You don't have a certificate unless you go to a certifying authority and get one (this is a real-world process, usually involving $$$ except for PGP). In the web, you don't have much use for one unless you run a server. If I understand correctly the browser does generate and give the server something called a "session key", but its not valid after a short period and in any case isn't used for "incoming" connections (on the client). Andrew PS If your browser and the server are both from the same vendor, and use some proprietary and possibly secret protocol to exchange info, all bets are off. Beware large monopolistic corporations headquartered in the NW US with geeky guys named Bill running them. This is not an official SCO position, Bill. AK ----------------------------------------- Andrew Knutsen andrewk@sco.com Santa Cruz Operation (408) 427-7538 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 16:18:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA23201; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xanax. by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA23195; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:18:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xanax by xanax. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA12142; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:17:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3207D29C.4CB1@excite.com> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 16:17:48 -0700 From: John Kawamoto Organization: Excite, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: early life form on mars? (NRR Sort of?) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Check out http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/NewsRoom/today.html STATEMENT FROM DANIEL S. GOLDIN, NASA ADMINISTRATOR "NASA has made a startling discovery that points to the possibility that a primitive form of microscopic life may have existed on Mars more than three billion years ago. The research is based on a sophisticated examination of an ancient Martian meteorite that landed on Earth some 13,000 years ago. The evidence is exciting, even compelling, but not conclusive. It is a discovery that demands further scientific investigation. NASA is ready to assist the process of rigorous scientific investigation and lively scientific debate that will follow this discovery. I want everyone to understand that we are not talking about 'little green men.' These are extremely small, single- cell structures that somewhat resemble bacteria on Earth. There is no evidence or suggestion that any higher life form ever existed on Mars. The NASA scientists and researchers who made this discovery will be available at a news conference tomorrow to discuss their findings. They will outline the step-by-step "detective story" that explains how the meteorite arrived here from Mars, and how they set about looking for evidence of long-ago life in this ancient rock. They will also release some fascinating images documenting their research. NASA BRIEFING WEDNESDAY ON DISCOVERY OF POSSIBLE EARLY MARTIAN LIFE A team of NASA and Stanford scientists will discuss its findings showing strong circumstantial evidence of possible early Martian life, including microfossil remains found in a Martian meteorite, at a news conference scheduled for 1:00 p.m. EDT, August 7, at NASA Headquarters, 300 E. St. SW, Washington, DC. The team's findings will be published in the August 16 issue of Science magazine. Panelists will be: - Dr. Wesley Huntress, Jr., NASA Assoc. Administrator for Space Science, Washington, DC - Dr. David McKay, principal author, NASA Johnson Space Center (JSC), Houston, TX - Dr. Everett Gibson, NASA JSC, Houston, TX - Dr. Richard N. Zare, Professor of Chemistry, Stanford University, CA - Kathy Thomas-Keprta, Lockheed-Martin, JSC, Houston, TX - Dr. William Schopf, Professor, Department of Earth and Space Sciences, Univ. of California, Los Angeles The briefing will be carried live on NASA TV with two- way question-and-answer capability for reporters covering the event from participating NASA centers. Audio of the broadcast will be available on voice circuit at the Kennedy Space Center by calling 407/867-1260. NASA Television is broadcast on Spacenet 2, transponder 5, channel 9, C-Band, located at 69 degrees West longitude, with horizontal polarization. Frequency will be on 3880.0 megahertz, with audio on 6.8 megahertz. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 16:23:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA23634; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA23629; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:23:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from (rlunatic@sjx-ca58-54.ix.netcom.com [205.186.122.182]) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA18888 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:22:48 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:22:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199608062322.QAA18888@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> From: rlunatic@ix.netcom.com (Adam Luong) Subject: free beach party-=> "Viberation" Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Yep! Party is August 17th and I dedicate this party to (TERRY, CTD-ZINE) This is *HIS* going away party! The fellow raver who spent his time on making laminates for us... Let's support him because he's not going to be with us for a couple of years!! LET'S MAKE HIM GO OUT WITH A *BANG*!!!!!!!!!! We love ya Terry, Adam R.Lunatic-=> You wrote: > > >hey ya'll - saturday were getting together for a little daytime beach >party near santa cruz. djs so far will be jonathan, knucklehead, and tom, >and a few more we havent decided on. the VM is 4o8.955.8638 and 415.525.5o52. >i'll post a complete line up in a few days. > >hope all is well with everyone - enjoy the sun:) > >*ahau* > tom > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 16:24:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA23758; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA23749; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id TAA03207; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:24:06 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:23:41 -0400 From: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Subject: Sacto house party To: Shamini Jain Cc: sfraves Message-ID: <199608061923_MC1-852-2A31@compuserve.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day, >Hey Jason, was this the party at this girl's apt. in Sacramento? Curious...if it was, did >you get a chance to hear Pankaj spin, he's an Indian guy. I went to school with him. The lineup was in two rooms, one upstairs(like a bedroom), and the main dining area that opened up into the living room. It was in the heart of downtown Sacto . I think I remember someone who looked Indian spinning, but I really wasn't keeping track of who was on the decks. And I only ventured upstairs to see where the stairs led to, finding a small room with about six people crashed or curled up together in the early morning hours. Biojeff spun around 1 am and again, later in the morning. Louie was on when I split to have a few beers out on Jeff's balcony (remember his name because Sheri, the birthday girl, was trying to get the group I found in the back room motivated to dance). We were a bit busy passing around some morning organics :) Amy Starkey and Melanie did most of the decorations and set up the altar (GREAT JOB). If this sounds like it, and he spun the downstairs, what time did he go on? How do you pronounce his name? I hate butchering people's names. Take care, Jason From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 17:02:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA27172; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA27166; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:02:31 -0700 (PDT) From: TBOBSC@tevm2.nsc.com Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id RAA09101 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:03:41 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (V1.3) id sma008748; Tue Aug 6 17:03:09 1996 Received: from tevm2.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA25590 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 6 Aug 96 17:01:45 -0700 Message-Id: <9608070001.AA25590@nsc.nsc.com> Received: from TEVM2 by tevm2.nsc.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8947; Tue, 06 Aug 96 17:02:21 PDT Date: Tue, 06 Aug 96 17:02:21 PDT To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Socialism Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk FROM: Robert Brown *** Resending note of 08/06/96 14:36 SUBJECT: Re: Socialism >FROM: Troy Sheets >SUBJECT: Re: Socialism >The amount of money that welfare reciepients are "stealing" from us >is extremely small compared to the amount of money the Pentagon and >related Defense Contractors are stealing from us. the Pentagon does not even >want or need 150 or so new C-130 cargo planes yet the government is giving >them the money for them anyway. Why is the government spending so much on >the military? When the time comes when the people decide that our government Why? Possibly because the Congressmen in the particular state/districts where these military wares are built do not want to see these jobs lost so keep these programs alive longer than necessary. Why? Perhaps because "we the people" will vote them out of office if they don't "do something" to keep the jobs in their districts. A thought... And curious, how can the *Pentagon* be guilty of stealing on this issue when they don't want and do not request these items, but are forced to take them anyway? The blame may lie in the above paragraph... >Lets look beyond what the corperate-controlled media is spoon-feeding us >and determine the real problems in this country. It sure as hell ain't >welfare recipients. Maybe not the recipients themselves, but the system that perpetuates generation after generation of those dependent on welfare handouts needs to be questioned. Doling out more checks constantly sure as hell isn't the answer, that's been proven. How to solve this problem is another debate for another venue... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > My fellow Americans (snicker), socialism = Big Brother Government. > > There is far too much greed and corruption for socialism to become anything > else. The government is power hungry and only until recently have they > relented some of that power back to the states. I praise the recent welfare > reforms! Yahh! But there is still a lot of work to do. Taking care of > yourself and everyone else is a wonderous ideal and should be practiced. > But in this world, we need not be socialists to accomplish this. It is more > a matter of genuine love and concern for your brothers and sisters. To this > end, I know of many fantastic people who do just this! > > In my opinion, the only ones who deserve any type of subsidy are those who > are honestly and seriously disabled, widows and orphans. When people talk > about taking government checks, they are talking about stealing money from > you and I and all other taxpayers. The government has no money of its own, > rather it steals it from us. I would gladly give SOME, but not for every > type of social program under the sun. The US's "concerned" disguise in > recent years has done nothing but create generations whom are welfare > dependent and desire nothing better. Why work when someone else will do it > for you and give you a percentage? Thus, when I talk of socialism, I think > there is only one kind. Big Brother Government. Of course, it makes all > the self-proclaimed liberals out there feel better when they think they are > helping a problem by throwing my money at it. But I think they are fooling > themselves. People must work to survive here. People must take individual > responsiblity before they can help others. Why even God was reported to > say, "I can not help those who don't first help themselves". > > I would be interested in hearing other's definitions of socialism. But I > hope we can remain cool and just talk openly and without offense. Take care > guys and gals and shine!!!!!! > > Love, > > Troy J. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Inquire Within Sender Path: *cc: SFRAVES --HYPERREAL.COM From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 17:53:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA01532; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA01524; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:53:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Felps8888@aol.com Received: by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA27752 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:55:30 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:55:30 -0400 Message-ID: <960806205530_450927114@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Come Dance with Me Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Alright. . .I admit it- I flaked on MAD last night. I was really looking forward to going, then all this emotionally draining stuff fell on me and left me with little energy to do anything, and certainly not enough to go out and dance with. To be honest, I am still feeling wiped out. UG! best wishes to anyone who did make it out there and had a good time. . BTW, who is all going to Hunny? Take care kids, Phelps From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 17:57:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA01865; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA01855; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sfbayguardian.com ([206.15.95.160]) by www (8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA00394 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 04:04:53 -0800 From: Marco_A._Mancia@sfbayguardian.com (Marco A. Mancia) Organization: The San Francisco Bay Guardian Subject: Anyone up for a roadtrip? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: <2676246.ensmtp@sfbayguardian.com> Priority: normal X-Mailer: ExpressNet/SMTP v1.1.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk i gotta drive up to Vancouver, B.C. this weekend. If anyone is interested in going or want a ride up that way, let me know..............I would be more than happy and would enjoy the company. We will defintiely have cool tunes and hell we can even stop along the way if something cool is going down..........which you know there always is................drop me a line or give me a buzz at 510-597-1723,,,,,,,,...............orb..............magick.............23...... ....out -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent via the Guardian Online. 415.437.3600 N81 or bbs.sfbayguardian.com, 3004 ================================================================================ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 18:02:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id SAA02460; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id SAA02454; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:02:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA05369 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA18448; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:56:40 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:56:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: Weird Coincidences - the Return of Pankaj To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Last summer at a Berkeley house party I randomly met a guy named Pankaj, a dj from New York, who was out here on vacation. I was going to New York for vacation in a few months, and got his number so he could escort me through the scene out there. However, by the time New York came around, the little scrap of paper with his number on it had long since been lost. I found raves/clubs/dj stores on my own in my week in New York :). This summer a friend of a friend, who I've never met before, moves out here from New York. She likes to rave. We all coordinate an evening out - she's in San Francisco but calls to ask me could I pick up her friend in Berkeley? He is also visiting from New York - he's a dj named Pankaj. Then, I get on the internet today, and find a post from _another_ New Yawka, who is also connected to, the same, Pankaj (pronounced Punk-age). Random coincidence, or proof of the invisible web that connects us all...? It's a small world after all! (Glad to hear he got to spin out here!) N! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 18:14:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id SAA03502; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sco.sco.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA03496; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grandad.pdev.sco.com by sco.sco.COM id aa15101; 6 Aug 96 18:13 PDT Received: from tehama.pdev.sco.com by grandpa.pdev.sco.com id aa21168; 6 Aug 96 18:14 PDT Received: from andrewk.pdev.sco.COM by tehama.sco.com id aa25466; 6 Aug 96 18:09 PDT From: Andrew Knutsen To: TBOBSC@tevm2.nsc.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Socialism X-Mailer: ScoMail 3.0.Bd MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9608061810.aa28641@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > Why? Possibly because the Congressmen in the particular state/districts > where these military wares are built do not want to see these jobs lost > so keep these programs alive longer than necessary. Why? > Perhaps because "we the people" will vote them out of office if they > don't "do something" to keep the jobs in their districts. A thought... > > And curious, how can the *Pentagon* be guilty of stealing on this issue > when they don't want and do not request these items, but are > forced to take them anyway? The blame may lie in the above paragraph... Yeah, isn't it ironic that the military-industrial complex can seem like the most successful form of socialism in this country. So is it better to generate bombs or bums? There is always another way... Andrew ----------------------------------------- Andrew Knutsen andrewk@sco.com Santa Cruz Operation (408) 427-7538 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 18:16:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id SAA03635; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id SAA03630; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from si.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id SAA25540; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:16:30 -0700 Received: by si.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id SAA16857; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:16:30 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 18:16:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: Come Dance with Me To: Felps8888@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <960806205530_450927114@emout12.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Aug 1996 Felps8888@aol.com wrote: > BTW, who is all going to Hunny? ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME =) ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME Ran -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 19:08:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id TAA07665; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA07655; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA11502 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA18744; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:03:14 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:03:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Nancy Shaw Reply-To: Nancy Shaw Subject: Nikita/Nation/It's only Tuesday! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Geez, it's only Tuesday and we're all debating how we're going to party on the weekend!! Are there some impatient people out there, or what??! ;) First of all: Nation This line-up looks like a once-in-a-great-while opportunity. I have NEVER gotten to see any English dj's but I have heard from more than one Brit that these two are the shit (all of these people have also bagged on the e we get, but that's another story...) I don't know how this is going to fare on the underground-feel scale (probably quite low!), but Spundae the Club does know how to throw a PARTY! I went to both their Labor Day and Memorial Day extravanganzas, and they did not disappoint. Awesome dj's, awesome sound, decorations in the club, and, after the 2AM drinking crowd left, a true happy feeling of those who came just to dance and have FUN. Two of the best nights out dancing I have had. Spundae HAS thrown some "raves." The last Nation was last summer (remember the hype?). $25, but I heard from those that went that the music and the night and even the people were totally worth it. Does anyone know of any other Spundae "raves"? I think there were a couple... (P.S. Advance sale on this party is $20. Also may be a different crowd (more clubby and older) than the teens that were targeted for Jugg). Nikita - Carl Cox and 10-Year Anniversary Whoa, everyone! This is 1015's 10-Year Anniversary! This is a club with money to burn and I have a feeling they're going to do it up for this night. The lasers and sound and production are all top just for their average Friday night. But lots of promotion means huge club crowds, and they're also bringing back club favorite dj's from over the years...a glance at the flyer shows Top40-type house dj's, hiphop and even 70's/oldskool flava. This looks like a night of sound nostalgia, NOT cutting-edge dance (except maybe Carl Cox?). But what interests me is the historical meaning implicit in this club's 10-year anniversary. Although those of us who know the underground - where we are treated to the newest, most exciting music - would scoff at the idea of 1015 as revolutionary, the fact is that this club's presence in our beautiful city introduced this area to a LOT of dance music over the years. Without clubs like 1015 dedicated to (for the club scene) purer, less commercialized dance music, I think our scene and movement would be less vibrant and thriving as it is today. 1015 opened in 1986 (just when techno-dance was really emerging) and provided a home for it in the mainstream world of danceclubs. (I know there are many small weeklies, monthlies, etc., around - but I'm thinking of 1015's role as a major danceclub in a major city). 1015 has also played host to Wicked and Come-Unity, among other raveclubs. What if no clubs were gutsy enough to play this music? What if all of them were like those awful little bars I went to last week-end in the Triangle, where all the party people thought that dancing to "Wild Thing" was the ultimate?!! Aside from Spundae, Nikita's the only real mainstream weekly I can think of that plays the music I want to dance to. Then there's the other option... Hunny! All I know is any party whose flyer has an orgasmic Piglet on it has got to be good!! This is the first party put on by one of the members of the extended Harmony family...recommendation enough to me. (Oh yeah, DJ Dan!). Who's doing what this weekend? Been Flaking at Work Way Too Much Today, Nancy :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 19:11:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id TAA07891; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:11:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from acorn.ousd.k12.ca.us by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA07885; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.94.64.210] by acorn.ousd.k12.ca.us with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0uny5q-006fGoC; Tue, 6 Aug 96 19:11 PDT Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 19:11 PDT Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Moander Subject: f-8 this friday... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Anyone here going to the f-8 party this friday...? Not only can we not miss the now rare presence of mike + eric (mars + myster-e) ever since pack-a-bowl died, but on top of that, ethan is destined to rock the the house and DRC is comin' back in town, ready to fuckin' rip up the tables! Anyone who hasn't checked her out at the sci-fi club is truly lost when it comes to good mixing... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Moander e-mail: moander@mit.edu (a.k.a. Nick Estrada) scaplier@ousd.k12.ca.us Close your eyes, listen with the ears of a child, and we'll meet somewhere in the eigth frequency... - Mars From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 19:22:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id TAA08618; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nak.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id TAA08612; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (ucdata.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.165.25]) by nak.berkeley.edu (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA12670; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ucdata.Berkeley.EDU.ucdt (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA18783; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:16:27 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:16:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Nancy Shaw Subject: Re: f-8 this friday... To: Moander cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Does anyone know? Is F-8 indoors or out in nature (as usual)...? The line-up is kickin', but I don't like cold, dark beaches at night! And do we HAVE to get tix beforehand at F-8 (complain, complain). I live over the water and far away.... Nancy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 19:38:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id TAA09982; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:38:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id TAA09975; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:38:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id TAA04765; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:38:03 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:38:03 -0700 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199608070238.TAA04765@netcom.netcom.com> To: nancys@ucdata.Berkeley.EDU CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-reply-to: (message from Nancy Shaw on Tue, 6 Aug 1996 19:16:26 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: f-8 this friday... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Does anyone know? > > Is F-8 indoors or out in nature (as usual)...? The line-up is kickin', > but I don't like cold, dark beaches at night! > And do we HAVE to get tix beforehand at F-8 (complain, complain). I live > over the water and far away.... > > Nancy > > I called them earlier; 200 presale tix, and that's it. Nothing at the door, so get your dollar ready for the bridge :) The party's indoor, but I don't know where. Hunny's looking good for this weekend, esp. in light that Mars and Myster-E will be at Wish this Wednesday. Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com ssimitzi@us.oracle.com | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-494-7987 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 20:16:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id UAA12946; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elaine25.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA12936; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from starchld@localhost) by elaine25.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA08245; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:16:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Kodama Message-Id: <199608070316.UAA08245@elaine25.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Re: f-8 this friday... To: scaplier@ousd.k12.ca.us (Moander) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Moander" at Aug 6, 96 07:11:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Not only can we not miss > the now rare presence of mike + eric (mars + myster-e) ever since > pack-a-bowl died if you REALLY have to feed the monkey NOW <-- naked lunch anyone? =) (i do) my magic 8-ball tells me mars and myster-e are spinning at wish this wednesday at the bahia at least as of last wednesday oh magic 8-ball, is this date still on? (ask again later) matt. -- |=======================================================================| | | | _surrealism_: formerly a school of art, no longer distinguishable | | from reality. | | | | _Q_: how many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb? | | | | _A_: two - one to hold the giraffe, and one to fill the bathtub | | with brightly-colored machine tools. | | | |=======================================================================| -starchld@leland.stanford.edu--the mothership can be reached at 493-4099- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 20:26:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id UAA13755; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA13748; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:26:36 -0700 (PDT) From: elmo@cats.ucsc.edu Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id UAA03069; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:26:33 -0700 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id UAA15840; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:26:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:26:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199608070326.UAA15840@am.UCSC.EDU> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: going to hunny =) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'll be at Hunny this Friday. The line-up is awesome... (Dan, Cloud, Greg, etc.) I like the fact that this party has not only some dare-i-say big djs, but also some lesser known ones as well. For those of you who haven't heard Cloud, Greg, or Gerlando Piro spin before, now is your chance =) The music should be incredible and diverse... (not just Techno OR House OR Breakbeat OR Whatever... But a good mixture) I have a strange feeling that the music's gonna kick my ass =) The people throwing Hunny care about the scene and aren't just out there to make a quick buck (don't worry, i'm not saying the other parties this weekend are). So I'm going to go support them... I'm ready to dance up a storm ;) and I hope to meet more SFRavers while I'm there... matt cantu =) elmo@cats.ucsc.edu http://arts.ucsc.edu/Random/Matt/cantu/ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 20:30:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id UAA14062; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA14052; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA21151; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.74.237] (abrams2b.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.74.237]) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA22131; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:29:47 -0700 X-Sender: bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:37:21 -0700 To: Wowser , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Brian Denny) Subject: Re: (NRR) Democracy Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 12:16 AM 8/6/96, Wowser wrote: >(Just some thoughts on our "Democracy") > >We don't live in a democracy and we never have. But even "our" government granted. we live in an oligarchy, just like everyone else has in every country in the history of civilization. >we are still in the throws of socialism. For all you socialists out there, >it doesn't work and it never will. History has clearly proven this. you have to distinguish between socialism as economic policy and as social policy. in Sweden, for example, you pay higher taxes, but your children actually get an education... the US has the _lowest_ Quality of Living Index of any industrialized nation. the US is also the most capitalistic, and one of the most socially restrictive. the dictators in this country are the capitalists... the 20 or so corporations that control 95% of the media, and the other large companies whose owners/executives also are involved in the ownership/control of those media corporations. (see Noam Chomsky's _Manufacturing Consent_.) all of the "socialist" policies in this country are facades set up to make you think that the poor are being helped... but the rich keep getting richer, the poor keep getting children, and the media keep indoctrinating us to think that everything's going to be okay. my point is that capitalism, not socialism, has led to the forces that keep us oppressed. remember that all of our "socialist" policies were enacted by governments, which (whatever they might have said on TV) were absolutely beholden to large corporate interests. all this IMHO, of course. brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 20:35:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id UAA14403; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id UAA14398; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA21206; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [136.152.74.237] (abrams2b.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.74.237]) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA22489; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:32:54 -0700 X-Sender: bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:40:29 -0700 To: Troy Sheets , tuskluv@lewiston.com (Wowser) From: bdabrams@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Brian Denny) Subject: Re: Socialism (NRR) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 2:36 PM 8/6/96, Troy Sheets wrote: >The amount of money that welfare reciepients are "stealing" from us >is extremely small compared to the amount of money the Pentagon and >related Defense Contractors are stealing from us. the Pentagon does not even very true. also, the _total_ amount of money (adjusted for inflation, blah,blah,blah) that the government has _ever_ spent on welfare is _less_ than the amount of money that it is currently spending on the S&L bailout. brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 20:37:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id UAA14541; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom7.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA14536; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from madox@localhost) by netcom7.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id UAA11275; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:36:58 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:36:57 -0700 (PDT) From: TEMPoNAUT Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism To: Ronald Knegtel cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9608061522.ZM26615@horatio.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > I wonder how many people are really happy with living on welfare. Although > I don't know the exact numbers I'd say its usually just enough to get by > on. Have _you_ ever lived a "luxurious" life on welfare? no one said they have a good life, but these people arent out looking for jobs to improve their lifes. I live in a very high welfare part of oakland, and i can see what goes on, and what they do. absolutly nothing, no one works, crime is still high, eveny with throwing tons of money at it. if giving people money doesnt help, then how about taking it away? what else are we left with? huh? giving more money? yeah right. get people off welfare, have them get jobs (which there are plenty of), and get them to function in society. things will be hard for about a generation, but people will learn how to live when the government isnt there supporting you not to work. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 20:39:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id UAA14724; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id UAA14719; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:39:56 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA23740; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:39:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:39:53 -0700 (PDT) To: Nancy Shaw cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Nikita/Nation/It's only Tuesday! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, Nancy Shaw wrote: > But what interests me is the historical meaning implicit in this club's > 10-year anniversary. Although those of us who know the underground - > where we are treated to the newest, most exciting music - would scoff at the idea of 1015 as > revolutionary, the fact is that this club's presence in our beautiful > city introduced this area to a LOT of dance music over the years. > Without clubs like 1015 dedicated to (for the club scene) > purer, less commercialized dance music, I think our scene and movement > would be less vibrant and thriving as it is today. 1015 opened in 1986 > (just when techno-dance was really emerging) and provided a home for it > in the mainstream world of danceclubs. (I know there are many small > weeklies, monthlies, etc., around - but I'm thinking of 1015's role > as a major danceclub in a major city). 1015 has also played host to > Wicked and Come-Unity, among other raveclubs. What if no clubs were > gutsy enough to play this music? What if all of them were like those > awful little bars I went to last week-end in the Triangle, where all the > party people thought that dancing to "Wild Thing" was the ultimate?!! Not at all! I have had a lot of good times at 1015 a couple of years back. Anyone remember Boogie Buffet? Nice..... Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 21:07:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA16544; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA16538; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:07:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sf-asc-6-155.dialup.slip.net (sf-asc-6-155.dialup.slip.net [206.14.14.155]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA10562 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608070407.VAA10562@host.domain.net> X-Sender: jonas@mail.domain.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: jonas@hunab-ku.com (Jonas Judd (Etznab)) Subject: Psychedelic trance party Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Greetings > >This Saturday outdoors close to city there will be a full on psychedelic >trance ritual party, brought to you by C.C.C, Silver Palm Leaf, Hunab Ku, >this will be a fundraiser for the burning man, to help pay for the sound >system and equipment needed for the live performance by Kox Box from >Denmark and a host of >International performers and DJ's, > >The line up for this Saturday will be DJ's > >Craig (UV-13) >Caban (Hunab Ku) >Douglas (C.C.C) > >We are asking if everyone at attendance can donate 5$ or more, again 100% of >proceeds will be going to burning man, and all equipment and dj time will be >donated for this party as well. > >Bring drums, love and energy and prepare yourself for a journey into the >13th Dimension. > >for further info and directions call 415 - 487 - 5142 > >See you there Love and Energy > >This has been a transmission from The Tree people! > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 21:24:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA17816; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from email.sjsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id VAA17808; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:24:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crc3.concentric.net (isc-ts2-88.SJSU.EDU [130.65.25.88]) by email.sjsu.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA17854; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960807042440.00673f9c@email.sjsu.edu> X-Sender: ubs00747@email.sjsu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 21:24:40 -0700 To: Tom Leichardt , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Mike Wolf Subject: Re: lets talk physics! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 01:17 PM 8/6/96 -0700, you wrote: > >ok, i remember learning about standing waves in high school physics, now >im trying to remember teh formula for how to create a standing wave in a >tube at a specific frequency. the variables go like this: frequency, >volume of tube/length, something in coordination with wavelength... > >anyone? > >*ahau* > tom > It's been a while since I took physics, but here it goes. Standing waves in a open tube _____________________ | |/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ |_____________________ Eigenwavlengths: lambda(1)=(4)L lambda(2)=(4/3)L lambda(3)=(4/5)L Eigenfrequencies: nu(1)=v/(4L) nu(2)=3v/(4L) nu(3)=5v/(4L) where: L=length of the tube lambda=wavelength v=velocity nu=frequency The speed v, can be calculated by measuring the resonant frequency of the tube of known length. Q / __/|\/ / | | / \ | \ _/ \_ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 21:33:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA18481; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xanax. by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA18473; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xanax by xanax. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA12325; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:33:03 -0700 Message-ID: <32081C7F.4CFE@excite.com> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 21:33:03 -0700 From: John Kawamoto Organization: Excite, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Love Winnie the Pooh! (LONG) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk My favorite Disney cartoon has always been Winnie the Pooh!!!...so of course I'm going to go and seek out the Hunny this Friday. I like all the characters but my favorite has to be piglet. I posted this back in May I think after hearing that there was gonna be an upcoming party called "Honey". I had thought that the promoters had thought of the idea for their party from a movie called "My Dinner with Andre" which is about Andre's (a playwrite) realizations about life thru leading an improvisational theatre group. The way he describes what happens at these plays in the movie, you would swear he's talking about a rave!! It's weird but the quote even seems to fit the "Tao of Pooh" too! Check this trippy movie out...it's well worth it. Here's the excerpt from the video "My Dinner with Andre". The setting is a restaurant and a famous playwrite, Andre Gregory, is having dinner with his friend Wallace Shawn. Their conversation is about Andre's experiences at Finhorn (SP?) where people are able to grow plants in soil that has no nutrients in it all among other scientifically unexplainable phenomena and also about his experience at leading an improvisational play with beatiful music in a Polish forrest with people who could not speak English. When you read it, think to yourself of the reasons why YOU go to raves? Peace and Love, John ---- Andre to Wallace: "Finhorn people see it a little differently, they're feeling that there will be these pockets of light springing up in different parts of the world and that these will be in a way invisible planets on this planet, and it as we or the world grow colder we can take invisible space journeys to these different planets, refuel for what it is what we need to do on the planet itself and come back. It's their feeling that there have to be centers now where people can come and re-construct a new future for the world and when I was talking to Gustav Bjornstron, he was saying that actually these centers were growing up everwhere now and what they're trying to do, which is what Finhorn was trying to do, and in a way which was what I was trying to do...I mean these things can't be given names but in a way these are all attempts at creating a new kind of school or a new kind of monastery and Bjornstron talks about the concept of reserves - ISLANDS OF SAFETY where history can be remembered and the human being can continue to function in order to maintain the species thru a dark age. In otherwords we're talking about an UNDERGROUND, which did exist in a different way during the dark ages among the mystical orders of the church ... and the purpose of this underground is find out how to preserve the LIGHT ... LIFE! The culture! How to keep things living! You see, I keep thinking that what we need is a new language ... a language of the HEART, a language as in the Polish forrests where language wasn't needed, some kind of language between people that is a new kind of poetry, thats the poetry of the dancing bee that tells us where the HUNNY is! And I think that in order to create that language you're going to have to learn how you can go thru a looking glass into another kind of perception where you have that sense of being UNITED to all things ... and suddenly ... you understand everything! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 21:36:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA18677; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA18672; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:36:37 -0700 (PDT) From: KarenK420@aol.com Received: by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA14813 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 00:39:01 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 00:39:01 -0400 Message-ID: <960807003900_594101934@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: COME-UNITY Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey all you party friends out there. Hope this week is going well for all of you. So, who's going to ComeUnity tomorrow night? We can't wait to go, since we missed it last month due to the line outside. And this is a party where we go all decked out........come out and dance with us!!!!!! :-) Karen :-) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 21:53:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id VAA19824; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:53:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id VAA19819; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:53:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA01612 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:53:01 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:53:01 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lowe To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk My comment on this thread (just throwing some kindling on the fire): There is a general sentiment here that people on welfare ought to "get a job" (to paraphrase). Who determines whether these people are contributing to the world? In my opinion, every person is important regardless of whether or not they choose to contribute to this "society" by having a job. As a worker, I am happy to see my tax dollars going towards subversive (whether intentional or not) behavior in the form of non-working people. Much happier than when I see my tax dollars going towards bombing foreign countries. (well... if there wasn't a wiretap on my line before, there will be shortly!) : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : : Every picture tells a LIE! : : - The Schwa Corporation : :: fingerprint: 1F E7 D3 24 04 18 72 67 CC E6 66 1B 79 79 CB 3A :: From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 22:27:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id WAA22452; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 22:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id WAA22446; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 22:27:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp049-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.49]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id WAA10760 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 22:26:48 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960807053009.00cb6d4c@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 22:30:09 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Narcissus 99 Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >My comment on this thread (just throwing some kindling on the fire): hmm. i'll toss some on myself.. =) the US spends more than twice as much money on "defense" spending than its four greatest threats combined (iraq, iran, russia, and china, i think..) (don't ask me to back up this statistic, i'm too lazy to go find the source. besides, it should be blatently obvious). is it really neccessary? didn't we live long enough under the shadow of the cold war to realize that "to prevent war, we must prepare for war" is an oxymoron? didn't the recent rejection of the US's cryptography postition by a group of scholars who were allowed to see the gov'ts top secret cypto-scare presentation have any impact on anything? regarding socialism: socialist policies exist (social safety nets, health care, welfare, etc..) because people, in general, don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. it is wonderful that some people can go beyond this (read Wealth, by andrew carnegie), but don't expect because you can see a better way to live means that everyone will necessarily follow it. communism had the best intentions in the world, it was unworkable, and people took advantage of that fact. capitalism seems to be workable only because it is self-propagating. but how long can it last, before it ruins the world? i, for one, would be much happier to live in a more "socialist" country than the US. i grew up in canada, i can understand what a great thing it is to have a state health program. i've seen people not go to the doctor, simply because they couldn't afford to. that disgusts me. "every man was created equal", until capitalism, where money can buy you rights. socialism is an attempt to right the scales between the haves and the have-nots, restoring the idea that every man is created equal. universal access to the basic needs of human living: food, shelter, medical attention, etc... our world is so unbelievably fucked up - where there aren't enough jobs to go around, or even if they were, they wouldn't be the jobs that someone desired or would enjoy (see: emotional income). something is wrong with the world. punishing people for being born into a system they can't cope with by stomping out welfare isn't the answer. superficial solutions are not what is needed. going back to canada, before i moved to the us, my home province of ontario had just elected a new, right-wing conservative govenment. fueled by selfish, individualistic memes oozing north across the border, the tories (nickname for the progressive conservatives -- an oxymoron!) proceeded to slash every social program they could get their hands on. and don't think they were motivated by what the people wanted, they were pushed by big business. the government proceeded to give out special favours to it's friends, privatizing Pierson International Airport in Toronto, which was making millions of dollars for taxpayers, as an example. but, as seen, governments are not responsive to the people, they are responsive to MONEY; specifically the money of big corporations. don't think for a second that it is otherwise. anyway, i'm just going off here.. i'm not bagging on anyone. everyone from the US should realize, though, that the US is not the greatest country in the world merely because the media and the educational system portray it as so. take a long, hard look at what the US does, in matters of foreign policy as well as internal, and decide for yourself. >: Every picture tells a LIE! : why read when you can just stare at things? >: - The Schwa Corporation : From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 23:06:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id XAA25212; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA25206; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:06:14 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA03946; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:06:01 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:06:01 -0700 (PDT) To: David Lowe cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, David Lowe wrote: > > My comment on this thread (just throwing some kindling on the fire): > > There is a general sentiment here that people on welfare ought to "get > a job" (to paraphrase). Who determines whether these people are > contributing to the world? In my opinion, every person is important > regardless of whether or not they choose to contribute to this "society" > by having a job. As a worker, I am happy to see my tax dollars going > towards subversive (whether intentional or not) behavior in the form of > non-working people. Much happier than when I see my tax dollars going > towards bombing foreign countries. Personally, I could care less if they have a job or not. I just don't want *my* job to have to pay for their lack of one. Welfare is a trap. It rewards women having litters of children, and promotes failure as a way of life. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 23:32:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id XAA26961; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom2.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA26954; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from madox@localhost) by netcom2.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA03683; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:32:01 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:32:01 -0700 (PDT) From: TEMPoNAUT Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism (fwd) To: blkadder@value.net cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:06:01 -0700 (PDT) From:blkadder@value.net To: David Lowe Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism > Personally, I could care less if they have a job or not. I just don't want *my* job to have to pay for their lack of one. Welfare is a trap. It rewards women having litters of children, and promotes failure as a way of life. Black Adder Well said. That pretty much sums up it. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 23:34:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id XAA27113; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:34:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom2.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id XAA27106; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from madox@localhost) by netcom2.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA03812; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:34:00 -0700 Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:34:00 -0700 (PDT) From: TEMPoNAUT Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism (fwd) To: blkadder@value.net cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:32:01 -0700 (PDT) From: TEMPoNAUT To: blkadder@value.net Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:06:01 -0700 (PDT) From:blkadder@value.net To: David Lowe Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism > Personally, I could care less if they have a job or not. I just don't want *my* job to have to pay for their lack of one. Welfare is a trap. It rewards women having litters of children, and promotes failure as a way of life. Black Adder Well said. That pretty much sums up it. Oops. I meant to say sums it up. :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Aug 6 23:57:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id XAA28636; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:57:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host.domain.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id XAA28628; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sf-asc-62-211.dialup.slip.net (sf-asc-62-211.dialup.slip.net [206.14.14.211]) by host.domain.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA13527; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199608070657.XAA13527@host.domain.net> X-Sender: jonas@mail.domain.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: pauly@mobius.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com From: jonas@hunab-ku.com (Jonas Judd (Etznab)) Subject: Re: Tapes Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk :) :) At 10:55 PM 7/31/96 -0700, pauly@mobius.net wrote: >Greetings, > >> This would be a good "list it yourself" on a website, where people would >> send email to the DJ who is selling it requesting it. That or a periodical >> email/usenet post by The Keeper of the List? > >I would be willing to work with some people on setting up site space. >I've got a RealAudio server. we can encode the tapes and put them up, >this would allow people to listen to them on the net, assuming they had >the realaudio player. > >The best thing would be to have the mix tape with a playlist so that the >original artists can be credited. > >My initial feelings about selling them over the net are not real >positive right now, though. I just don't feel real comfortable with all >the intellectul property issues involved. > >If anybody is willing to help organize, I've got the web space and the >server. > >best, >pauly > >____x-radio____________________________________________________________________ >_______________http://www.x-radio.com/x-radio/_________________________________ > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 00:00:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id AAA29341; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 00:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id AAA29052; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 00:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA20989; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 00:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) id XAA27902; Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:56:51 -0700 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199608070656.XAA27902@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialismo To: madox@netcom.com (TEMPoNAUT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 23:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "TEMPoNAUT" at Aug 6, 96 08:36:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Are you serious? There are "plenty of jobs out there?" Did you know that most jobs get dozens of applicants? And that most people spend months looking for a job before they find one? And that people spend months, sometimes years, in temporary employment with no health insurance or retirement benefits? It seems to me that around here, the ONLY industry where there are plenty of jobs is the computer industry. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And if you know of any openings out there, do let me know. Looking for work myself, Ann From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 00:23:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id AAA02702; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 00:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id AAA02697; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 00:23:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Begroovy@aol.com Received: by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA19954 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 03:24:53 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 03:24:53 -0400 Message-ID: <960807032452_379564512@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Nation 1995 review Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I went to the nation party last year. It was on Saturday July 3 at the Sound factory. I had hesitations about going to the Sound Factory on a Saturday Night for starters. I had even more hesitation about going to the Sound Factory on a Saturday night of a holiday weekend? I tried talking various friends into going, but the conscenses was SoundFactory Satuday night 4th o' July weekend, NAUGHT! The lineup was Lil Louie with Kenny Dope, followed by CJ McIntosh, with Sasha closing. I went around midnight. The place was packed with every cologne and perfume wearing clubber in the city and surrounding locals. I don't remember there even being much of a line to get in, which is a bonus in going to an event like this. I found it hard to dance early on lots of beer swilling cologne and perfume types standing around. But the dynamic duo was laying down those phat NY salsa house grooves that can sweep away any bad vibe. Keeping mind and body focused on the music instead o' the crowd was the key at this point in the night. Around two CJ came on playing his female vocal and horn drenched house thang. This is not my favorite genre o' house music but the bar closed and the crowd that goes with it slowly dwindled. I found myself taking a breather on the risers off to the side and found myself perfectly possitioned behind this pole which diverted the lasers that were pointed at me. The laser light just missing my eyes and yet still surrounding my field o' vision. Way cool, probably had to be there then? First feelings o' tiredness, ho hum? Anyway five o'clock Sasha hits the decks. Lets CJ's last Horn drenched house track dwindle to the last groove and floats into some swishy ambient thang which gradually builds with some tribal type acoustic drumming into tribal dance and gradually upping the bpm into heavy harder deeper progressive hard house verge o' acid trance sick shit continuing back through the progressive groove tribal drum swish ebb flow ebb flow ebb flow... What the fuck just happenned 7AM lights on party over whoa!!!!! Creatively and musically the best set I heard in 1995. I will be going to see Sasha again this year. I've heard similar tales of Carl Cox last year also at the Sound factory. This is a music appreciation thang not a squishy melt down hug me and my fuzzy bear kind o' scene. Big Sound, Big Visuals, Big Bucks. I'll save my squishy bear hugging for the New Moon? ; ) Have a great night, PEACE! Cid From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 01:45:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id BAA08771; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 01:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs.oberlin.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id BAA08765; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 01:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [205.184.16.185] (sfo-ca17-25.ix.netcom.com [205.184.16.185]) by cs.oberlin.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA25620 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 04:45:42 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 04:45:42 -0400 X-Sender: jsinger@occs.cs.oberlin.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: jsinger@cs.oberlin.edu (Jesse Singer) Subject: san diego weeklies? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm putting together the events calendar for XLR8R Magazine, and I'm trying to figure out which weeklies are good and reliable. We're looking for parties and clubs that will be going strong through September and October. Does anyone know if any of these events are happening and worthwhile? And, what genres are they? (Let me know if something bomb-like is missing?) mon - caramba happy magic g force wed - club 555 weightless thurs - afterhours @ 7722 Clairemont Mesa Blvd club hedonism sunsonic afterhours dominion fri - afterhours the mercury club red vinyl xpresso pussy cat's sat - romperoom sun - warm sunday sundays in the park From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 01:54:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id BAA09408; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 01:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs.oberlin.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id BAA09399; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 01:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [205.184.16.185] (sfo-ca17-25.ix.netcom.com [205.184.16.185]) by cs.oberlin.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA25652 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 04:54:26 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 04:54:26 -0400 X-Sender: jsinger@occs.cs.oberlin.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: jsinger@cs.oberlin.edu (Jesse Singer) Subject: vancouver weeklies? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm putting together the events calendar for XLR8R Magazine, and I'm trying to figure out which weeklies are good and reliable. We're looking for parties and clubs that will be going strong through September and October. Does anyone know if any of these events are happening and worthwhile? And, what genres are they? (Let me know if something bomb-like is missing.): mon. zoo boogaloo happy house izm tue. klazzixx passion jazz night wed. 3 gold suck mo' funk ginger snaps thurs. sol the bottle strictly business fri. brazil new mind candy loungin' with t-bone sat. the world red lounge sun. soul kitchen ---------------- Thanks, jess From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 02:03:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id CAA10336; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 02:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cs.oberlin.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id CAA10325; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 02:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [205.184.16.185] (sfo-ca17-25.ix.netcom.com [205.184.16.185]) by cs.oberlin.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA25728 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 05:03:35 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 05:03:35 -0400 X-Sender: jsinger@occs.cs.oberlin.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: jsinger@cs.oberlin.edu (Jesse Singer) Subject: seattle weeklies? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm putting together the events calendar for XLR8R Magazine, and I'm trying to figure out which weeklies are good and reliable. We're looking for parties and clubs that will be going strong through September and October. Does anyone know if any of these events are happening and worthwhile? And, what genres are they? (Let me know if something bomb-like is missing or if something included sucks.): mon. mo' funk groove grease tue. the vogue wed. strong hello recycle thurs. desire victors fri. brazilia morning madness electrolush the jungle fundamental sat. electrolush espionage brasilia the goodz sun. jungle mesh medicine ----------------- thanks, Jess From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 03:32:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id DAA22340; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 03:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id DAA22332; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 03:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from madox@localhost) by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id DAA25351; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 03:32:39 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 03:32:39 -0700 (PDT) From: TEMPoNAUT Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialismo To: Ann Elizabeth Loraine cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199608070656.XAA27902@uclink.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Are you serious? There are "plenty of jobs out there?" > > Did you know that most jobs get dozens of applicants? And that most > people spend months looking for a job before they find one? And that > people spend months, sometimes years, in temporary employment with no > health insurance or retirement benefits? > > It seems to me that around here, the ONLY industry where there are plenty > of jobs is the computer industry. > > Please correct me if I'm wrong. And if you know of any openings out > there, do let me know. > UPS, Fedex, SouthWest Air (if not all major airlines), Advertising/design industry, CPA's, Reality's, rave investers, Postal Service, Border Patrol, Marketing firms, Telemarketing companies, A/P machanics, ESL teachers, Chain companies are looking for people to start new branches of their stores (ie fast food).... the list goes on. some are profesional jobs, some are labor jobs. there is enough demand for people with education as well as no education. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 07:02:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id HAA07776; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 07:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate.Cadence.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id HAA07770; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 07:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by mailgate.Cadence.COM (8.6.8/8.6.8) id HAA01977 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 07:02:48 -0700 Received: from enterprise.cadence.com(158.140.32.21) by mailgate.cadence.com via smap (V1.0mjr) id sma839426567.001974; Wed Aug 7 07:02:47 1996 Received: (from randall@localhost) by enterprise.Cadence.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA07564 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 07:02:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Randall Wright" Message-Id: <9608070702.ZM7562@enterprise.Cadence.COM> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 07:02:43 -0700 X-Face: x8TZ8n~\QO4#L)fb~X([,i=#G/ii$NhZhB}h"&Q3{RBO4E9-h,.4x2#=WegjXGJE>R`5iqKPy5Z_I]PIFh}{\b0Db4%#e<)2[%0)foON.wQ*wP_ajgB))AN2R)#="_Ypa1&Sj(zTk,B51)!#bdP_{xXV')EA3OcW8Q-RBUU-u>QN_S,g61+q\P]U4w1{mgu2wzF X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: HRR: Tech Support Contractor? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hulloa, If anyone is interested, we have need for some contracted assistance to answer the phone and troubleshoot unix/pc/mac software/hardware at my company. We have a few people leaving quite soon ... and need help. If you are interested, write. The company is Cadence Design Systems. It is located in San Jose. It makes electronic design automation tools for chip development. good night and thank you randall -- ___ r a n d a l l @ c a d e n c e . c o m ___ management information technology services From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 08:36:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id IAA15797; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id IAA15783; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:35:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.32.192.226] (ch053.Chance.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.192.226]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA07393; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:35:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:30:39 -0800 To: jsinger@cs.oberlin.edu (Jesse Singer) From: David Ginsberg Subject: Re: seattle weeklies? Cc: SF Raves Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Jesse- I haven't lived in Seattle for awhile, so I'm a little outta touch with some of the newer weeklies, but I do go back about 6 times/year. Here's the low-down from my experience...Electrolush is the BOMB...nothing else in Seattle (or anywhere else that I know of) comes close. --David > >mon. >mo' funk - GENERALLY GOOD, POSTMODERN FUNK >groove grease > >tue. >the vogue - A SEATTLE INSTITUTION, DEFINATELY WORTH CHECKING OUT > >wed. >strong >hello >recycle - IS THIS THE CROCODILE CLUB'S WEEKLY? - IF SO, EXCELLENT >ACID-JAZZ AND BLUESY RYTHMS > >thurs. >desire >victors > >fri. >brazilia >morning madness >electrolush - EASILY THE BEST WEEKLY IN SEATTLE!!! >the jungle >fundamental > >sat. >electrolush (UNLESS SOMETHING'S CHANGED SINCE I WAS LAST THERE (EARLY >JULY) I THINK IT'S JUST THE SHOWBOX ON SATURDAY, NOT ELECTROLUSH) >espionage >brasilia >the goodz > >sun. >jungle >mesh >medicine > >----------------- >thanks, Jess ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~ David Ginsberg Student of Neurophenomenology and the Human Condition University of California, Berkeley ginsberg@uclink4.berkeley.edu .................................... I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. --Jack Handy ~ ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 08:58:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id IAA17775; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id IAA17767; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:58:18 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id IAA08572; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:58:14 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:58:13 -0700 (PDT) To: Narcissus 99 cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960807053009.00cb6d4c@pop.sirius.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, Narcissus 99 wrote: > >My comment on this thread (just throwing some kindling on the fire): > hmm. i'll toss some on myself.. =) > > the US spends more than twice as much money on "defense" spending than its > four greatest threats combined (iraq, iran, russia, and china, i think..) > (don't ask me to back up this statistic, i'm too lazy to go find the source. > besides, it should be blatently obvious). is it really neccessary? didn't we > live long enough under the shadow of the cold war to realize that "to > prevent war, we must prepare for war" is an oxymoron? didn't the recent > rejection of the US's cryptography postition by a group of scholars who were > allowed to see the gov'ts top secret cypto-scare presentation have any > impact on anything? Yes, it remains an evil necessity. The biggest single threat to the U.S. today aside from terrorist attack, is China. In a non-nuclear scenario, with a population over a billion people and a fairly advanced military, they would probably wipe the proverbial floor with us. Ponder this: The U.S. currently offers most favored nation trading status to a country that is one of the biggest perpetrators of human rights violations in the world, practices infanticide, and and violates any copyright they feel like. Is this the action of a country that doesn't have anything to fear? > i, for one, would be much happier to live in a more "socialist" country than > the US. i grew up in canada, i can understand what a great thing it is to > have a state health program. i've seen people not go to the doctor, simply > because they couldn't afford to. that disgusts me. "every man was created > equal", until capitalism, where money can buy you rights. socialism is an > attempt to right the scales between the haves and the have-nots, restoring > the idea that every man is created equal. universal access to the basic > needs of human living: food, shelter, medical attention, etc... our world is > so unbelievably fucked up - where there aren't enough jobs to go around, or > even if they were, they wouldn't be the jobs that someone desired or would > enjoy (see: emotional income). something is wrong with the world. punishing > people for being born into a system they can't cope with by stomping out > welfare isn't the answer. superficial solutions are not what is needed. I don't remember a proposal to "stomp out" welfare. I do remember a proposal to cut it off after a person has been on it 5 *years* Currently, there are people living off of welfare all of their lives, and are having children, that know nothing different, and also end up on welfare. The situation tends to be very cyclic, and needs to be dealt with. People in the system are losing their work ethic, if they had one to start with, because they are not made to do *anything* for the money they receive. I would like to see more vocational training within the system, to lessen the myth that you have to have a 4 year degree to suceed in America. What do you propose that will solve these problems? Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 09:09:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA19046; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA19033; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qmgate.corp.apple.com (A17-130-8-42.apple.com [17.130.8.42]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA19386 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:09:14 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 1996 09:11:19 -0700 From: "Mark Camp*" Subject: NRR - the Olympics To: "sfr" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 FC1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > >>>>> Live From NBC! Drum Roll, Please. >>>>> By Dave Barry >>>>> Knight-Ridder Newspapers >>>>> >>>>> ATLANTA (KRT) -- And now for my >>>>> impression of the Olympics on TV: >>>>> >>>>> TRUMPETS: BOM! BOM! BOM-BOM >>>>> BOM BOM BOM! >>>>> >>>>> BOB COSTAS: Good evening, and as >>>>> you can tell by the sound of the Olympic >>>>> Theme Song that we play almost as >>>>> much as we show Kerri Strug's historic >>>>> vault, it's time for our broadcast of The >>>>> Recently Videotaped Olympic Games >>>>> Featuring Americans. We're going to >>>>> start by taking you right to the >>>>> track-and-field stadium, where the >>>>> men's 100-meter dash is about to get >>>>> under way, despite the fact that it >>>>> actually happened four hours ago. >>>>> >>>>> TRACK COMMENTATOR: Bob, this >>>>> promises to be an exciting race, featuring >>>>> Americans. >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: And what are the obstacles >>>>> that these Americans have overcome to >>>>> create a Human Interest Factor for our >>>>> broadcast? >>>>> >>>>> TRACK COMMENTATOR: Bob, from >>>>> left to right, they have overcome >>>>> psoriasis, vertigo and a bad allergy to >>>>> vinaigrette dressing. >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: We'll come back to the men's >>>>> 100-meter final, but right now we're >>>>> going to replay the video of Kerri Strug, >>>>> an American, overcoming her ankle to >>>>> make her courageous vault. >>>>> >>>>> (Kerri Strug vaults.) >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: What a human moment! >>>>> Time for a commercial. >>>>> >>>>> ANNOUNCER: We're IBM. We're a >>>>> giant corporation with vast computer >>>>> expertise. That's why we're in charge of >>>>> keeping track of all the statistics for >>>>> these, the Olympic Games of 1953. >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> BOM! BOM! BOMBOM BOM BOM >>>>> BOM! >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: Now we're going to take you >>>>> to women's beach volleyball, where the >>>>> sun is shining brightly despite the fact >>>>> that it is now 10:37 p.m. on the East >>>>> Coast. >>>>> >>>>> BEACH VOLLEYBALL >>>>> COMMENTATOR: Thanks, Bob. This is >>>>> Holly McPeak, an American, and as you >>>>> can see in this digitized, >>>>> computer-enhanced, >>>>> ultra-slow-motion Beach Cam closeup >>>>> shot, she has overcome cellulite. >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: I'll say. When is she going to >>>>> serve? >>>>> >>>>> BEACH VOLLEYBALL >>>>> COMMENTATOR: She'll be serving in >>>>> about 4 seconds, Bob. >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: I'm sorry, but we don't have >>>>> that kind of time, because we need to >>>>> show this Heartwarming Moment. >>>>> >>>>> (Kerri Strug vaults.) >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: Now let's go out to the cycling >>>>> competition, where I believe we have a >>>>> race involving an American. >>>>> >>>>> CYCLING COMMENTATOR: That is >>>>> correct, Bob. We have an American >>>>> shown here pedaling furiously in 637th >>>>> place, with a solid chance to move up to >>>>> 636th. >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: What obstacle has this >>>>> American overcome? >>>>> >>>>> CYCLING COMMENTATOR: Bob, he >>>>> is overcoming one hellacious case of >>>>> hemorrhoids. >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: We'll have more on that >>>>> exciting cycling race, but right now we're >>>>> going to return to the Olympic track >>>>> stadium for an update on the men's >>>>> 100-meter dash. >>>>> >>>>> TRACK COMMENTATOR: Bob, the >>>>> race started about two seconds ago and >>>>> should be over in about eight more >>>>> seconds. None of the Americans has >>>>> fallen down. >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: We're going to break away >>>>> from the men's 100-meter dash at this >>>>> point, but we will be covering it >>>>> throughout the course of the evening. >>>>> Right now, however, we want you to see >>>>> this moment, captured by our NBC >>>>> cameras. >>>>> >>>>> (Kerri Strug vaults.) >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: Now let's head out to the pool >>>>> to check on the progress of the American >>>>> swimmers, all of whom have overcome >>>>> asthma. >>>>> >>>>> SWIMMING COMMENTATOR: Bob, >>>>> here we see an American swimmer >>>>> winning a race. This happened earlier. >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: How much earlier? >>>>> >>>>> SWIMMING COMMENTATOR: >>>>> Twenty-four years, Bob. This is Mark >>>>> Spitz. >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: Time for this commercial. >>>>> >>>>> ANNOUNCER: We're the Nike >>>>> Corporation. We pay famous athletes >>>>> millions of dollars to wear our shoes. >>>>> Because of this, you, the public, pay >>>>> absurdly high prices for these shoes. Is >>>>> that stupid, or what? Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> BOM! BOM! BOMBOM BOM BOM >>>>> BOM! >>>>> >>>>> (Kerri Strug vaults.) >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: OK, right now there are >>>>> exciting gold-medal competitions going >>>>> on in archery, shooting, rowing, >>>>> kayaking, table tennis, softball, >>>>> volleyball, team handball and judo, so >>>>> right now we're going to take you to >>>>> beach volleyball. >>>>> >>>>> BEACH VOLLEYBALL >>>>> COMMENTATOR: Bob, as you can see, >>>>> American Holly McPeak is bending over. >>>>> >>>>> COSTAS: I'll say. >>>>> >>>>> BOM! BOM! BOMBOM BOM BOM >>>>> BOM! >>>>> >>>>> (Kerri Strug vaults.) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 09:15:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA19590; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ptv.lbl.gov by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA19584; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.3.15.136] by ptv.lbl.gov with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:14:26 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:20:49 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: heidi@ptv.lbl.gov (Heidi Blais) Subject: Re: f-8 this friday... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >> Is F-8 indoors or out in nature (as usual)...? The line-up is kickin', >> but I don't like cold, dark beaches at night! F8, FAR AWAY, FOR THE HARDcore=8A >> And do we HAVE to get tix beforehand at F-8 (complain, complain). I live >> over the water and far away.... _as stated above_ >I called them earlier; 200 presale tix 'TWILL BE IN THE CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO, A DECENT WALK FROM A BART STATION, AND IT IS HIGHLY PROBABLE, IF NOT 100% CERTAIN, THAT THE NOTORIETY OF M & M [AMONG THE TRANCERS OF THIS SODIUM-FLUORESCENT CITY] WILL GRANT THEM A SOLD-OUT EVENT WITH NO TIX TO SPARE AFTER WEDNESDAY. NOTE: News, National Public Radio, Wednesday Morning. A meteorite that landed 13,000 years ago in one of Earth's polar regions and was discovered twelve years ago shows evidence of having come from Mars, and from chemical studies of the meteorite's composition, researchers believe that life _may_ once have existed o on MARS. Strange to awake _immediately_ to this one particular piece of news. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 09:37:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA21270; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:37:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id JAA21263; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from quickmail.apple.com (A17-130-8-36.apple.com [17.130.8.36]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA12826 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:37:25 -0700 Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 1996 09:15:02 -0700 From: "Jason Green*" Subject: MAC BPM COUNTER? To: "sfraves" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 4.0.0 FC1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello all... I was wondering if anyone out there has a software BPM counter for the Macintosh - one that you can hook up an audio source to, not just tap the mouse button or return key every beat (I have one of those if anyone is interested - it's shareware). If nobody has one, does anybody know if such an animal exists? Thanks! _jason_ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 09:41:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA21701; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpbio1.Biologie.HU-Berlin.de by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA21482; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hpbio1.Biologie.HU-Berlin.de (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA11408; Wed, 7 Aug 96 18:46:12 +0200 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 18:46:12 +0200 (MESZ) From: Ulrike Laitko Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism To: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, David Lowe wrote: > There is a general sentiment here that people on welfare ought to "get > a job" (to paraphrase). Who determines whether these people are > contributing to the world? In my opinion, every person is important > regardless of whether or not they choose to contribute to this "society" > by having a job. As a worker, I am happy to see my tax dollars going > towards subversive (whether intentional or not) behavior in the form of > non-working people. Much happier than when I see my tax dollars going > towards bombing foreign countries. exactly. it is a really oldfashioned misconception to assume things would get any better if everybody just worked harder. to see that people, *ravers*, on this list still hang on this belief and consider it a goal to _'function in society'_ and persecute everybody who doesn't touches me quite strangely. yeah really, how can a *raver* be sooo convinced that working, in the sense of 'getting a job', like, at mc donalds or somewhere,is the ultimate way to spend your life? who says that you have to justify your existence by struggling and working yourself to death? normally you don't earn money by making the world a nice place for everybody, but by producing needless stuff, talking people into buying needless stuff, do research in the name of progress (a concept that is totally questionable nowadays), generally by contributing to the limitless growth that is a consequence of capitalist economy and inevitably fucks the world up. i mean, hey, how many of you actually bake bread or teach children (or other sweet things to think of) to make a living? *i don't*. i think somebody who doesn't work might actually cause less overall damage than somebody who does. concerning the socialism definitions that are around, IMO it is not accurate to define it by some fuzzy social security criteria. socialism is a type of economy and thus the definition is in terms of economy: socialism = state owns the main means of production. this was the difference between socialist and capitalist countries, everything else moreless being just a consequence of this feature. (btw, communism then means: _everybody_ owns the main means of production. ask me how that is supposed to work...) since the factories and everything are state property, there is no competition between several providers of a certain product. the consequences are a) possible bad quality of the product and unsufficient supply b) the state as the proprietor of the factory doesn't have to worry about fighting any competitors. that means, there is no need of reinvesting all the profits into production, no need to shower the country with stupid advertising campaigns, no need to fire people for the sake of efficiency,no need for growth to make more and more profits. instead, the gains can partially be used for social things, for education, culture, health care, whatever. c) no big winners. no jet set. c) - boring. life -> grey. a) - very bad. gaps in supply of jelly bears, no cool clothes. life -> grey. b) - kind of a neat idea. only if there is no pressure of possibly loosing ones job and everything, some people tend to get lazy and stop giving a shit on doing their work ok -> gaps in supply of jelly bears... i think that's why they tried to replace that non existing economic pressure by political pressure, but i'm not sure. i still wonder why things started getting so weird and wether it would be possible to have socialism without all that ideology and big brother nuisance. ok, so much for politics. finally, remember what is said about the cute little birds and can't be wrong for ravers : they don't seed, they don't harvest, and the Lord feeds them anyway. ulrike From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 09:49:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id JAA22430; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:49:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.Sun.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id JAA22423; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mercury.Sun.COM (Sun.COM) id JAA05369; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:48:50 -0700 Received: from beachbingo.EBay.Sun.COM by Ebay.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3) id JAA12178; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:48:40 -0700 Received: by beachbingo.EBay.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA05667; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:49:02 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 09:49:02 -0700 From: arlina@beachbingo.Ebay.Sun.COM (Arlina Messersmith) Message-Id: <9608071649.AA05667@beachbingo.EBay.Sun.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Cant keep up X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Too much email for me... Can someone get me off this alias? Thanks, Arlina From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 10:14:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA25419; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:14:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA25413; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA19834 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:14:17 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA15288 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:13:29 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:13:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199608071713.KAA15288@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: NRR: Welfare (was "Socialism") X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk David Lowe wrote: >As a worker, I am happy to see my tax dollars going >towards subversive (whether intentional or not) behavior in the form of >non-working people. Much happier than when I see my tax dollars going >towards bombing foreign countries. That's very sweet. Very philosophical and very unrealistic. Tell ya what, let's have one of these folks, randomly picked from the general population, move into your house. This person will eat your food, sleep in your bed (no sex!), use your stuff, and lead any kind of life they want. They don't have to get a job or pay rent. They can sell drugs if that's what they choose to do. Or they can just sit around watching your TV all day. Doesn't much matter, since you're supporting them. Now, since I think we can safely assume that you'll tire of this arrangement fairly quickly, let's do this instead: We'll let this person move in to your house and we'll pay for this person to get training. This arrangement will last for a finite period of time, say 2.5 years. During this time, this person cannot be convicted of any felonious crimes, or the entire deal is off. They have 2.5 years to get an AA degree or certification or both. If this person has children, we pay for daycare while they're going to school. Then we give a business some kind of incentive to hire this person, say arranging a tax writeoff for at least 2 years of employment. And then they're out on their own. During that 2 year employment stint, either the business or the new employee can exercise the right to have a counselor made available to the new employee to help them in ironing out any problems adjusting. This would be a one time offer. And after that, that person is cut off from the dole for a minimum of 7 years. Sound expensive? Definitely, in the short term, but immensely cheaper than supporting this individual for his/her entire life. And the fact that they only have this free ride for a short time gives them vast incentive to make the most of it. Y'know, Welfare was never supposed to carry people throughout their lives; an honor system was assumed. Well, that fell apart, didn't it? And now we've got people who look at Welfare as their God-given right. It's time we yanked the nipple out of these people's mouths, looked them in the eye, and said, "Y'know, I like you and all, but you've *got* to start pulling your own weight." "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime." S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 10:20:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA25982; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stratacom.strata.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA25954; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:20:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strata.COM (kiwi.strata.com) by stratacom.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gatekeeper.Strata.Com-950201) id AA19802; Wed, 7 Aug 96 10:19:39 PDT Received: from polaris.strata.com by Strata.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/StrataCom-GCA-Kiwi-931007-1) id AA22454; Wed, 7 Aug 96 10:19:38 PDT Received: by polaris.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09595; Wed, 7 Aug 96 10:20:35 PDT Date: Wed, 7 Aug 96 10:20:35 PDT From: jlawrenc@stratacom.com (Jeremy Lawrence) Message-Id: <9608071720.AA09595@polaris.strata.com> To: blkadder@value.net Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Reply-To: jlawrenc@cisco.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, David Lowe wrote: > > > > > My comment on this thread (just throwing some kindling on the fire): > > > > There is a general sentiment here that people on welfare ought to "get > > a job" (to paraphrase). Who determines whether these people are > > contributing to the world? In my opinion, every person is important > > regardless of whether or not they choose to contribute to this "society" > > by having a job. As a worker, I am happy to see my tax dollars going > > towards subversive (whether intentional or not) behavior in the form of > > non-working people. Much happier than when I see my tax dollars going > > towards bombing foreign countries. > > Personally, I could care less if they have a job or not. I just don't > want *my* job to have to pay for their lack of one. Welfare is a trap. It > rewards women having litters of children, and promotes failure as a way > of life. Poverty is also a trap. Would you rather that *your* job payed for more police, more prisons, and higher insurance premiums caused by people stealing? I strongly suspect that slashing welfare is false economy, and i've yet to see a strong argument against this. To put it another way: handing out welfare is arguably undesirable from a moral viewpoint, but is quite possible that it is a position of minimum harm to society as a whole. Jeremy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 10:34:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA27510; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from svpal.svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA27503; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:34:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from djtom@localhost) by svpal.svpal.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA28398; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:32:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: thanks for all physics responses! To: Happy Ravers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk thank you all - i got quite a bit of responses, and thoughtful ones too. yes, i was thinking about the digeridoo (i'll never spell that right) and now have a resonating PVC pipe:):):) - now to decorate it... *ahau* tom "16 or so fun filled years left" From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 10:36:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA27704; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA27695; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA14172; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (trose@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA27858; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:30:24 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:30:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Anthony Rose To: Begroovy@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Nation 1995 review In-Reply-To: <960807032452_379564512@emout14.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 Begroovy@aol.com wrote: > I went to the nation party last year. It was on Saturday July 3 at the Sound > factory. I had hesitations about going to the Sound Factory on a Saturday > Night for starters. I had even more hesitation about going to the Sound > Factory on a Saturday night of a holiday weekend? I tried talking various > friends into going, but the conscenses was SoundFactory Satuday night 4th o' > July weekend, NAUGHT! The lineup was Lil Louie with Kenny Dope, followed by > CJ McIntosh, with Sasha closing. I went around midnight. The place was packed > with every cologne and perfume wearing clubber in the city and surrounding > locals. I don't remember there even being much of a line to get in, which is > a bonus in going to an event like this. I found it hard to dance early on > lots of beer swilling cologne and perfume types standing around. But the > dynamic duo was laying down those phat NY salsa house grooves that can sweep > away any bad vibe. Keeping mind and body focused on the music instead o' the > crowd was the key at this point in the night. Around two CJ came on playing > his female vocal and horn drenched house thang. This is not my favorite genre > o' house music but the bar closed and the crowd that goes with it slowly > dwindled. I found myself taking a breather on the risers off to the side and > found myself perfectly possitioned behind this pole which diverted the lasers > that were pointed at me. The laser light just missing my eyes and yet still > surrounding my field o' vision. Way cool, probably had to be there then? > First feelings o' tiredness, ho hum? Anyway five o'clock Sasha hits the > decks. Lets CJ's last Horn drenched house track dwindle to the last groove > and floats into some swishy ambient thang which gradually builds with some > tribal type acoustic drumming into tribal dance and gradually upping the bpm > into heavy harder deeper progressive hard house verge o' acid trance sick > shit continuing back through the progressive groove tribal drum swish ebb > flow ebb flow ebb flow... What the fuck just happenned 7AM lights on party > over whoa!!!!! Creatively and musically the best set I heard in 1995. I will > be going to see Sasha again this year. I've heard similar tales of Carl Cox > last year also at the Sound factory. This is a music appreciation thang not a > squishy melt down hug me and my fuzzy bear kind o' scene. Big Sound, Big > Visuals, Big Bucks. I'll save my squishy bear hugging for the New Moon? ; ) > Have a great night, PEACE! Cid > YES! these echo my sentiments about big parties...I heard carl cox a while back at the sound factory and that was one of those sets where you wonder where your mind has been abducted to for the last three hours! One of my favorites all year...see you there! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 10:41:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA28097; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA28083; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA17528; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.79.2.38] ([206.79.2.38]) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA21706; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:35:30 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:37:42 -0700 To: elmo@cats.ucsc.edu From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: going to hunny =) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk any idea how much $$$ Hunny will cost? -m. >I'll be at Hunny this Friday. The line-up is awesome... (Dan, Cloud, >Greg, etc.) I like the fact that this party has not only some >dare-i-say big djs, but also some lesser known ones as well. For >those of you who haven't heard Cloud, Greg, or Gerlando Piro spin >before, now is your chance =) > >The music should be incredible and diverse... (not just >Techno OR House OR Breakbeat OR Whatever... But a good mixture) >I have a strange feeling that the music's gonna kick my ass =) > >The people throwing Hunny care about the scene and aren't just >out there to make a quick buck (don't worry, i'm not saying the >other parties this weekend are). So I'm going to go support them... > >I'm ready to dance up a storm ;) and I hope to meet more SFRavers >while I'm there... > >matt cantu =) >elmo@cats.ucsc.edu >http://arts.ucsc.edu/Random/Matt/cantu/ 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | | | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | | | | avec le Headlands Band website | | et dj StarEyes aussi! | | | | Michal Migurski | | (408) 264-6604 | | | |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| | | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 10:50:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA28842; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA28836; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:50:17 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA17116; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:50:15 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:50:14 -0700 (PDT) To: jlawrenc@cisco.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: <9608071720.AA09595@polaris.strata.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Jeremy Lawrence wrote: > > > On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, David Lowe wrote: > > > > > > > > My comment on this thread (just throwing some kindling on the fire): > > > > > > There is a general sentiment here that people on welfare ought to "get > > > a job" (to paraphrase). Who determines whether these people are > > > contributing to the world? In my opinion, every person is important > > > regardless of whether or not they choose to contribute to this "society" > > > by having a job. As a worker, I am happy to see my tax dollars going > > > towards subversive (whether intentional or not) behavior in the form of > > > non-working people. Much happier than when I see my tax dollars going > > > towards bombing foreign countries. > > > > Personally, I could care less if they have a job or not. I just don't > > want *my* job to have to pay for their lack of one. Welfare is a trap. It > > rewards women having litters of children, and promotes failure as a way > > of life. > > Poverty is also a trap. Would you rather that *your* job payed for more > police, more prisons, and higher insurance premiums caused by people > stealing? I strongly suspect that slashing welfare is false economy, > and i've yet to see a strong argument against this. Uhhh....hello? Isn't this exactly what is happening now? Is the crime rate going down, is the standard of living increasing? 40 years ago one income families are the norm, now two income families are struggling to get by. Social (IN)security is a pipedream for most of us as it will be bankrupt by 2009(if memory serves.) Perhaps you are equating block-grants being given to the individual states with doing away with welfare altogether, which is simply not the case. > To put it another way: handing out welfare is arguably undesirable from > a moral viewpoint, but is quite possible that it is a position of > minimum harm to society as a whole. Drive through some section 8 housing sometime. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 10:50:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA28888; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id KAA28881; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA20841 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.79.2.38] ([206.79.2.38]) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA23827 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:45:48 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:47:59 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: bad flyer Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Anyone seen the flyer for "Megga Buzz One?" It's some huge-ass party that's supposed to be happening at the end of this month. What's the deal with these people? The flyer is almost ALL TEXT. Dj listings, more lighting crews than I care to remember, a "ravemart" area with vendors and water for sale (???), essays on "small party vibe with 5000+ people" and a paragraph explanation for why they didn't print the location on the flyer ("It would, like, spoil the surprise if you guys knew where it was"). Plus the fact that they named it Mega Buzz One, like there'll be a Two or a Three... kinda scary. Anyone remember Cyberfest? -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | | | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | | | | avec le Headlands Band website | | et dj StarEyes aussi! | | | | Michal Migurski | | (408) 264-6604 | | | |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| | | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 10:57:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA29920; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpbio1.Biologie.HU-Berlin.de by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA29893; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hpbio1.Biologie.HU-Berlin.de (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA12275; Wed, 7 Aug 96 20:03:09 +0200 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 20:03:09 +0200 (MESZ) From: Ulrike Laitko Reply-To: Ulrike Laitko Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism To: blkadder@value.net Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 blkadder@value.net wrote: > The biggest single threat to the > U.S. today aside from terrorist attack, is China. In a non-nuclear > scenario, with a population over a billion people and a fairly advanced > military, they would probably wipe the proverbial floor with us. wow. what makes you believe china has an interest in doing so? how would that look like? thousands of little yellow critters coming over the ocean in their small little boats/airplanes and wipe the floor with *you*? (seriously. is there any evidence they intend to start threaten the us? please inform me.) i mean, hey. are you sure you aren't a victim of your chief ideologists desperately blatant attempt to replace the byegone enemy in order to justify further spending your beloved *taxpayers money* on 'defense'? selling weapons to the government has become a pillar of economy in the us (and they pay quite well for those airplanes and tanks), like in a bunch of other countries, and i imagine things would start looking quite shitty if this pillar ceased to exist. so, are you sure the necessity for those chinese's plan to invade the us doesn't lie somewhere in there? > Ponder this: The U.S. currently offers most favored nation trading status to > a country that is one of the biggest perpetrators of human > rights violations in the world, practices infanticide, and > and violates any copyright they feel like. Is this the > action of a country that doesn't have anything to fear? why didn't they offer that status to the late soviet union than? unfortunately i don't have the top ten of the biggest human rights violators in the world available right now, but i think there are more reasons beyoind sheer dismay why there is so much about infanticide and human right violations in china in the media. check out the turks for more interesting, really disgusting human rights violations. just for example. and did you know they still kill people for being said to be witches in south africa. so where's the great brouhaha about that? does it mean the us fear those countries if they don't lay embargos on them or invade them right on the spot? really liking that thread - ulrike From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 10:59:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id KAA00309; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:59:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hal.mobius.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id KAA00301; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dbarch-pc by hal.mobius.net with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #9) id m0uoEKv-000JKpC; Wed, 7 Aug 96 12:32 PDT Message-ID: <3208D96F.4804@mobius.net> Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 10:59:11 -0700 From: pauly Organization: (none) X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: michal migurski CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: bad flyer References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ahh! michal migurski wrote: > kinda scary. Anyone remember Cyberfest? Wasn't Cyberfest that god-awful event out in Pleasanton a few years ago? That ran me out of the scene for several months! Even my poor karman ghia hated it, broke down and refused to go anywhere after that -- it was so mad at me. Had to catch a cab back to s.f. at 3:00 am after it shut down! Aggghh! Not again!!! wpr From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 11:08:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA01460; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id LAA01440; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id LAA17351; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:08:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199608071808.LAA17351@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Re: bad flyer To: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "michal migurski" at Aug 7, 96 10:47:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk "Feel good productions have done over 50+ raves and hundreds of clubs. We have been in the scene since it was young. We have perfected our party experience ect ect ect " Have YOU ever heard of them? -troy > > Anyone seen the flyer for "Megga Buzz One?" It's some huge-ass party that's > supposed to be happening at the end of this month. > > What's the deal with these people? The flyer is almost ALL TEXT. Dj > listings, more lighting crews than I care to remember, a "ravemart" area > with vendors and water for sale (???), essays on "small party vibe with > 5000+ people" and a paragraph explanation for why they didn't print the > location on the flyer ("It would, like, spoil the surprise if you guys knew > where it was"). Plus the fact that they named it Mega Buzz One, like > there'll be a Two or a Three... > > kinda scary. Anyone remember Cyberfest? > > -m. > > > 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 > | -flyers, graphics and other diversions- | > | for that whole body thirst situation | > | | > | (- Portfolio! -) | > | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | > | | > | b l e a c h e d f o r f r e s h n e s s | > | | > | avec le Headlands Band website | > | et dj StarEyes aussi! | > | | > | Michal Migurski | > | (408) 264-6604 | > | | > |"The skies are gray, but today they seem blue."| > | | > 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 11:18:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA02433; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stratacom.strata.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA02417; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Strata.COM (kiwi.strata.com) by stratacom.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Gatekeeper.Strata.Com-950201) id AA21559; Wed, 7 Aug 96 11:17:25 PDT Received: from polaris.strata.com by Strata.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/StrataCom-GCA-Kiwi-931007-1) id AA26857; Wed, 7 Aug 96 11:17:24 PDT Received: by polaris.strata.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09614; Wed, 7 Aug 96 11:18:21 PDT Date: Wed, 7 Aug 96 11:18:21 PDT From: jlawrenc@stratacom.com (Jeremy Lawrence) Message-Id: <9608071818.AA09614@polaris.strata.com> To: blkadder@value.net Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Reply-To: jlawrenc@cisco.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Black Adder wrote: > On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Jeremy Lawrence wrote: > [snip] > > Poverty is also a trap. Would you rather that *your* job payed for more > > police, more prisons, and higher insurance premiums caused by people > > stealing? I strongly suspect that slashing welfare is false economy, > > and i've yet to see a strong argument against this. > > Uhhh....hello? Isn't this exactly what is happening now? Is the crime > rate going down, is the standard of living increasing? 40 years ago one > income families are the norm, now two income families are struggling to > get by. Sure, these things are bad. What i was trying to say was that reducing welfare could well make the crime situation go downhill faster, with even more crime-related costs. > Social (IN)security is a pipedream for most of us as it will be > bankrupt by 2009(if memory serves.) That may be the case, but that is not an argument against the principle of welfare, only a particular system for providing it. > Perhaps you are equating block-grants > being given to the individual states with doing away with welfare > altogether, which is simply not the case. No i'm not. I'm talking about the measures to limit eligibility for welfare. > > To put it another way: handing out welfare is arguably undesirable from > > a moral viewpoint, but is quite possible that it is a position of > > minimum harm to society as a whole. > > Drive through some section 8 housing sometime. Sure, it may be ugly. But it's not clear that cutting welfare will improve the situation. Jeremy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 11:30:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA03570; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA03565; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA06273; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:30:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:30:09 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lowe To: SDream cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: NRR: Welfare (was "Socialism") In-Reply-To: <199608071713.KAA15288@shellx.best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, SDream wrote: > David Lowe wrote: > > >As a worker, I am happy to see my tax dollars going > >towards subversive (whether intentional or not) behavior in the form of > >non-working people. Much happier than when I see my tax dollars going > >towards bombing foreign countries. > > That's very sweet. Very philosophical and very unrealistic. Tell ya what, > let's have one of these folks, randomly picked from the general population, > move into your house. This person will eat your food, sleep in your bed (no > sex!), use your stuff, and lead any kind of life they want. They don't have > to get a job or pay rent. They can sell drugs if that's what they choose to > do. Or they can just sit around watching your TV all day. Doesn't much > matter, since you're supporting them. Here's my objection, though your argument is interesting. There are not so many people out there that each of us has to support one or more of them alone. I give a small portion of my paycheck up to a pool, and that pool is used to support thousands of people. The tax/welfare system is a far better system than each of us trying to support another individual. It does make me sad that many of these people, liberated from the bullshit working lifestyle, turn to non-stop TV, or violence, or crime, instead of pursuing more positive interests. But I still am happy to pay my small share to support them. > Now, since I think we can safely assume that you'll tire of this arrangement > fairly quickly, let's do this instead: > > We'll let this person move in to your house and we'll pay for this person to > get training. This arrangement will last for a finite period of time, say > 2.5 years. During this time, this person cannot be convicted of any > felonious crimes, or the entire deal is off. They have 2.5 years to get an > AA degree or certification or both. If this person has children, we pay for > daycare while they're going to school. Then we give a business some kind of > incentive to hire this person, say arranging a tax writeoff for at least 2 > years of employment. And then they're out on their own. During that 2 year > employment stint, either the business or the new employee can exercise the > right to have a counselor made available to the new employee to help them in > ironing out any problems adjusting. This would be a one time offer. And > after that, that person is cut off from the dole for a minimum of 7 years. > Sound expensive? Definitely, in the short term, but immensely cheaper than > supporting this individual for his/her entire life. And the fact that they > only have this free ride for a short time gives them vast incentive to make > the most of it. Okay, very nice. In the real world, however, there are people who can't find jobs. Or who will find a short-term job every once in awhile, but end up spending more than seven years in total on welfare and get cut off. How do you deal with the fact that we live in a bigoted society, where someone who is black, or female, or ugly (by society's standards) may have a hard time or find it impossible to find work. Also, there are people who don't want to work. I'm all for that. And there are people who are not willing to work below their skill levels, who demand that a job meet their needs. And I'm all for that too. Nobody should *have* to work in a miserable environment. > "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish, and you > feed him for a lifetime." Unless he doesn't like fish... : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : : "The secret to happiness is short-term, stupid self-interest!" : : - Calvin, /Calvin and Hobbes/ : :: fingerprint: 1F E7 D3 24 04 18 72 67 CC E6 66 1B 79 79 CB 3A :: From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 11:33:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA03907; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA03900; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:33:44 -0700 (PDT) From: TBOBSC@tevm2.nsc.com Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id KAA25105 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:19:53 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (V1.3) id sma020578; Wed Aug 7 10:10:47 1996 Received: from tevm2.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA23502 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 7 Aug 96 10:09:21 -0700 Message-Id: <9608071709.AA23502@nsc.nsc.com> Received: from TEVM2 by tevm2.nsc.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6469; Wed, 07 Aug 96 10:10:02 PDT Date: Wed, 07 Aug 96 10:10:02 PDT To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk FROM: Robert Brown *** Resending note of 08/06/96 23:06 SUBJECT: Re: [NRR] Socialism Precisely... I don't mind if people don't have jobs, just don't ask me to PAY that person to sit around on their lazy ass. If anyone is going to get paid to be lazy it should be ME! :-) ----------------------------------- FROM: blkadder@value.net SUBJECT: Re: [NRR] Socialism On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, David Lowe wrote: > > My comment on this thread (just throwing some kindling on the fire): > > There is a general sentiment here that people on welfare ought to "get > a job" (to paraphrase). Who determines whether these people are > contributing to the world? In my opinion, every person is important > regardless of whether or not they choose to contribute to this "society" > by having a job. As a worker, I am happy to see my tax dollars going > towards subversive (whether intentional or not) behavior in the form of > non-working people. Much happier than when I see my tax dollars going > towards bombing foreign countries. Personally, I could care less if they have a job or not. I just don't want *my* job to have to pay for their lack of one. Welfare is a trap. It rewards women having litters of children, and promotes failure as a way of life. Black Adder Sender Path: *cc: SFRAVES --HYPERREAL.COM From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 11:38:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA04328; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:38:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA04310; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA07376; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:38:18 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:38:18 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lowe To: jlawrenc@cisco.com cc: blkadder@value.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: <9608071818.AA09614@polaris.strata.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Jeremy Lawrence wrote: > > Social (IN)security is a pipedream for most of us as it will be > > bankrupt by 2009(if memory serves.) > > That may be the case, but that is not an argument against the > principle of welfare, only a particular system for providing it. This is also talking about social security as if it came out of a seperate pocketbook than that which pays for the military. The social security program may go bankrupt assuming that we continue to hand billions and billions (is it into the trillions yet? Can't remember) to the "defence" industry, and don't increase funding to social security, and... Suffice it to say, that's a bogus statistic. > > > To put it another way: handing out welfare is arguably undesirable from > > > a moral viewpoint, but is quite possible that it is a position of > > > minimum harm to society as a whole. > > > > Drive through some section 8 housing sometime. > > Sure, it may be ugly. But it's not clear that cutting welfare > will improve the situation. In fact, cutting welfare would only make these people POORER, and would thus have a tendency to increase crime rates, infant mortality, etc. The only obvious solution (since there are NOT enough jobs, and I will stand by that!) is to *increase* the amount they recieve. The problem is that this goes rather strongly against the morals/ideals of the capitalist founders and rulers (and citizens, but that's not important) of this country. : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : : "The secret to happiness is short-term, stupid self-interest!" : : - Calvin, /Calvin and Hobbes/ : :: fingerprint: 1F E7 D3 24 04 18 72 67 CC E6 66 1B 79 79 CB 3A :: From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 11:50:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id LAA05600; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:50:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id LAA05595; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uucp1.unix.portal.com (uucp1.unix.portal.com [156.151.4.11]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA22511; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:48:50 -0700 Received: from compattic.com (uucp@localhost) by uucp1.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with UUCP id LAA25536; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:45:02 -0700 From: aguevara@compattic.com (Adam Guevara) Reply-To: aguevara@compattic.com To: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: bad flyer Date: 07 Aug 1996 19:35:58 GMT Message-Id: <188317.227710828@compattic.com> Organization: Computer Attic Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Megga Buzz One is from Feelgood Entertainment. These guys (and gals, I assume) regulate the Buzzline and are associated with COOL WORLD. Im not saying that massives are BAD, nor that Feelgood Ent. is out for the money. But can we say coroperate rave??? Actually, I my intrduction to the scene was @ one of thoses massives in LA in 1990. So in a sense, massives like Megga Buzz have thier niche in the underground... even if does, at times, cast a negative light on the scene sometimes... "dance with me..." -Adam ____________________________ Transmitted from Computer Attic SuperCenter: (415) 363-8100 Corporate HQ: (415) 614-7500 ____________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 12:16:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA08468; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay1.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA08462; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heald.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbbtt05067; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp106.hayward.heald.edu by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AB03514; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:21:01 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:21:01 -0700 Message-Id: <9608071921.AB03514@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont) From: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu (Aryck) Subject: Re: NRR:URGENT! PLEASE READ. Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Dear list members, >I just picked up a flyer in the castro giving the following information. > >An "out of sf" team headed by Pete Wilson and Dan Lundgren has just busted >the "cannabis buyers club", an organization that helps provide medicinal >marijuana to dying AIDS patients, (marijuana is one of the only drugs >that helps them keep their appetite, etc.) There will be a protest >tomorrow, at 8:30 AM at Castro and Market, plus there will be a hearing >at 1:30 pm at Courtroom 1A, (Judge Cahill) Dept 8 at 850 Bryant, tomorrow >(Monday) I know this isn't rave related, but I think this is important. >The people who receive their cannabis from the Cannabis Buyers Club are all >sick or dying. This is a cheap shot by some very unsavory political >characters. I'm sure that there will be other protests, There may be one >going on right now in the 1400 block of Market (the CBC site) >If you live near there, it might be worth checking out. > >IMHO Wilson is the worst governor this state has ever had. > >PROTEST! > > >-Chris Beaumont > > Wilson is against dirt bikers too. He tried to close down OHV parks and take their money. It's not my fault, I didn't vote for him!!! Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 12:16:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA08493; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay1.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA08469; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heald.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbbtt05046; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp106.hayward.heald.edu by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA03514; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:20:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:20:54 -0700 Message-Id: <9608071920.AA03514@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "THX1138" From: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu (Aryck) Subject: Re: Chrysalis (newbie perspective) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Dear All; > >>from hand lotion to hugs, personal contact so wonderfully natural, two (or >>three or four or five) people feeling the energy and love of the whole >>place in- between their fingertips... > > Being a massage therspist, I have one word for lotion, please not. >The massage oils I use, I feel and know are much better than oily, slimely, >clothes staining, un-natural lotion. > >Peace >Brian > > > Well what kind of oils do you use? I know lotion sucks, if you get crappy lotion, you'll be wishing there was a shower near by. Wouldn't your oils make you all oily??? Lotion is just cool for hand rubs. Anything else and it just isn't too cool. Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 12:20:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA09054; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA09045; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA215555638; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:20:38 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:20:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: Sacto house party To: "Jason C. Lundy" <104242.1233@compuserve.com> Cc: Shamini Jain , sfraves In-Reply-To: <199608061923_MC1-852-2A31@compuserve.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, Jason C. Lundy wrote: > Good day, > > >Hey Jason, was this the party at this girl's apt. in Sacramento? Curious...if it was, did > >you get a chance to hear Pankaj spin, he's an Indian guy. I went to school with him. Yeah, that was Pankaj (don't ask me how to pronounce that!). I remember him being mentioned as a dj. (Jason - Pankaj went on after Rig-A-Tony and before BioJeff...) He was great! love, Amy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 12:37:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA10556; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay1.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA10531; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:37:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heald.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbbtu08172; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp92.hayward.heald.edu by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA03812; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:42:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:42:51 -0700 Message-Id: <9608071942.AA03812@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: blkadder@value.net From: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu (Aryck) Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, David Lowe wrote: > >> >> My comment on this thread (just throwing some kindling on the fire): >> >> There is a general sentiment here that people on welfare ought to "get >> a job" (to paraphrase). Who determines whether these people are >> contributing to the world? In my opinion, every person is important >> regardless of whether or not they choose to contribute to this "society" >> by having a job. As a worker, I am happy to see my tax dollars going >> towards subversive (whether intentional or not) behavior in the form of >> non-working people. Much happier than when I see my tax dollars going >> towards bombing foreign countries. > >Personally, I could care less if they have a job or not. I just don't >want *my* job to have to pay for their lack of one. Welfare is a trap. It >rewards women having litters of children, and promotes failure as a way >of life. > > Black Adder > > > That reminds me, anyone know the qualifications to recieve un-employment. My job just laid me off yesterday cuz business was going slow. I'll re-do my resume and post it later just in case anyone may be able to help. Thanks. Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 12:37:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA10574; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay1.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA10544; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heald.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: illuminati.heald.edu [205.166.158.67]) id QQbbtu08179; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:37:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp92.hayward.heald.edu by heald.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AB03812; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:42:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:42:54 -0700 Message-Id: <9608071942.AB03812@heald.edu> X-Sender: mxman@heald.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Kawamoto From: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu (Aryck) Subject: Re: early life form on mars? (NRR Sort of?) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Check out http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/NewsRoom/today.html > >STATEMENT FROM DANIEL S. GOLDIN, NASA ADMINISTRATOR > > "NASA has made a startling discovery that points to the >possibility that a primitive form of microscopic life may >have existed on Mars more than three billion years ago. The >research is based on a sophisticated examination of an ancient >Martian meteorite that landed on Earth some 13,000 years ago. > > The evidence is exciting, even compelling, but not >conclusive. It is a discovery that demands further >scientific investigation. NASA is ready to assist the >process of rigorous scientific investigation and lively >scientific debate that will follow this discovery. > > I want everyone to understand that we are not talking >about 'little green men.' These are extremely small, single- >cell structures that somewhat resemble bacteria on Earth. >There is no evidence or suggestion that any higher life form >ever existed on Mars. > > The NASA scientists and researchers who made this >discovery will be available at a news conference tomorrow to >discuss their findings. They will outline the step-by-step >"detective story" that explains how the meteorite arrived >here from Mars, and how they set about looking for evidence >of long-ago life in this ancient rock. They will also >release some fascinating images documenting their research. > >NASA BRIEFING WEDNESDAY ON DISCOVERY OF POSSIBLE EARLY MARTIAN LIFE > > A team of NASA and Stanford scientists will discuss >its findings showing strong circumstantial evidence of >possible early Martian life, including microfossil remains >found in a Martian meteorite, at a news conference scheduled >for 1:00 p.m. EDT, August 7, at NASA Headquarters, 300 E. St. >SW, Washington, DC. The team's findings will be published in >the August 16 issue of Science magazine. > > Panelists will be: > >- Dr. Wesley Huntress, Jr., NASA Assoc. Administrator for Space >Science, > Washington, DC >- Dr. David McKay, principal author, NASA Johnson Space Center (JSC), > Houston, TX >- Dr. Everett Gibson, NASA JSC, Houston, TX >- Dr. Richard N. Zare, Professor of Chemistry, Stanford University, CA >- Kathy Thomas-Keprta, Lockheed-Martin, JSC, Houston, TX >- Dr. William Schopf, Professor, Department of Earth and Space >Sciences, > Univ. of California, Los Angeles > > The briefing will be carried live on NASA TV with two- >way question-and-answer capability for reporters covering the >event from participating NASA centers. Audio of the >broadcast will be available on voice circuit at the Kennedy >Space Center by calling 407/867-1260. > > NASA Television is broadcast on Spacenet 2, >transponder 5, channel 9, C-Band, located at 69 degrees West >longitude, with horizontal polarization. Frequency will be >on 3880.0 megahertz, with audio on 6.8 megahertz. > > Oh, and just in case people like partying this weekend (and you probably do), me and Elvis (the king), will be throwing this phat-ass disco party in the middle of pier 29. We rented out an old Lucky wharehouse complete with all the sound equipment and lasers. My old work lent me the money and the vehicles to make this all possible. Tickets will be $2.50, at the door or free with a hug. There will be people from Terri's Treats walking around passing out "E" , doses, Special K, killer skunk, crack, Heroin, and other lovely treats. It will all be free once you get in. Please respect the property and no sex in the chill rooms like last time (those cops were pissing me off). Spread the word. #1-415-555-4646 YEAH RIGHT!!!! Aryck From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 12:43:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA11041; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:43:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA11032; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:43:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Thomas To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: check this weeks guardian Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 11:02:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Miles Egan To: IDM List Subject: (idm) Going Mainstream Speaking of IDM breakthroughs into mainstream media, SF's "underground" dance scene and DJs are the front cover story of this weeks SF Bay Guardian (THE free SF weekly). Two pages of DJ interviews are followed by full-page stories on Jonah Sharp and the Hardkiss bros. (duck, Jon!) Are any of the companies that make rave hats and baggy pants publically held yet? Liking the new Cylob just fine... Miles From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 12:43:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA11088; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA11064; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from (ascend@sjx-ca56-11.ix.netcom.com [205.186.122.75]) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA17281 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:42:45 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:42:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199608071942.MAA17281@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> From: ascend@ix.netcom.com (Gregory Sandler ) Subject: HUNNY!!! / (BSP) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello everyone!, I am finally back on line and can tell you about this party. So I will! This Friday, August 9th, 100 Acre Woods Productions present HUNNY Dj's: Gerlando Piro - Cloud - Dj Dan - Dutch - Jon Williams - Greg :) 4 Info = (415) 263-4885 This is the first party by this particular production team. And like Matt C. stated, they/we are not in this for the cash. You will be able to tell. I personally have spent more time working with this production team than I had planned on for this party. But by doing so, I can tell that there is a lot of positive energy surrounding this party! And I mean ALOT!!! Now as far as the price to get in... It will be $15, however if you get to the party before 11pm you get in for $10. There is no limit on how many $10 tickets we give out, so take advantage of it, come early!! This party will be in the city of SF, and will start promptly at 9pm. We will all be dancing our asses of until 6am. It is going to be a blast!! So come a kick it with "the Pooh" and have yourself a fun filled night!!!! Peace, Greg :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 12:44:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA11286; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id MAA11276; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA246007079; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:44:39 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:44:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: NRR: Welfare (was "Socialism") To: SDream Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199608071713.KAA15288@shellx.best.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk You said it all, Todd! I absolutely agree with you and Black Adder with this subject. |> | |\ | | \| |> Amy Starkey | \ | sac41673@saclink1.csus.edu <| |\ | .................................. | \| |> "Can't tell the real from reflection | \ | When all these faces look the same to me" <| |\ | | \| DURAN DURAN | .................................. <| From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 12:47:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA11547; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA11540; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:47:17 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA27063; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:47:15 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:47:14 -0700 (PDT) To: jlawrenc@cisco.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: <9608071818.AA09614@polaris.strata.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Jeremy Lawrence wrote: > Sure, these things are bad. What i was trying to say was that reducing > welfare could well make the crime situation go downhill faster, with > even more crime-related costs. Things are not only bad, but they have been getting progressively worse. So should we continue the downward spiral? Continue to hand money out, in perpetuity, to anyone who doesn't feel like working, and doesn't have enough self respect to be embarrased by the fact that they are contributing nothing to their own upkeep, or the well being of others from whom they are leeching from? I think I will pass. There are some *serious* deficencies in the current welfare system. The issue of the working poor is a prime example. People out there trying to make it. Let's give more money to them, and less to people that can't seem to get off their ass to work. Saying that the crime-rate is going to increase if we cut people off after five years is unlikely at best. Please read the following. It can be found at http://www.newsarchives.com/archive/dec1495/rgd.htm/ Report: Welfare Recipients Seeking Work in Wake of Benefit Cuts HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) - A change in the state's welfare system that cut benefits to encourge recipients to seek jobs apparenlty is working, according to state officials. Figures released Wednesday shows that the number of welfare parents who are employed has gone up 30 percent since cash benefits were cut in July. Cash benefits for a typical family of three were cut in July from $581 a month to $543 a month for welfare families in non-subsidized housing and $500 monthly for those in subsidized housing. State statistics show that only 12.7 percent of welfare recipients reported that they were working in June 1995, the month before the cuts in cash benefits were enacted. The number of recipients working has increased every month since then, and reached 16.5 percent in November. That represents an increase of about 30 percent. ``People are going to work,'' said Joyce A. Thomas, commissioner of the Department of Social Services, which oversees welfare programs. ``It's working.'' A review by the legislature's Office of Fiscal Analysis shows that welfare reform measures are having a dramatic impact on parts of the state budget. The state expected to save $133 million in two years because of the measures, but the statistics show that even more money is being saved in some categories because the number of people on welfare has already dropped. Weird huh? Tell people they aren't going to get as much money, and suddenly more people become employed. Must be some kind of voodoo magik.... I think it is safe to extrapolate this to apply to people that know that the free-ride is going to end after a period of time. > > Social (IN)security is a pipedream for most of us as it will be > > bankrupt by 2009(if memory serves.) > > That may be the case, but that is not an argument against the > principle of welfare, only a particular system for providing it. This was more of a general remark about the declining state of our nation. > > > To put it another way: handing out welfare is arguably undesirable from > > > a moral viewpoint, but is quite possible that it is a position of > > > minimum harm to society as a whole. > > > > Drive through some section 8 housing sometime. > > Sure, it may be ugly. But it's not clear that cutting welfare > will improve the situation. But can't you see that the way things are being done now isn't working? Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 12:49:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA11917; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sco.sco.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA11911; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grandad.pdev.sco.com by sco.sco.COM id aa16759; 7 Aug 96 12:44 PDT Received: from tehama.pdev.sco.com by grandpa.pdev.sco.com id aa16238; 7 Aug 96 12:45 PDT Received: from andrewk.pdev.sco.COM by tehama.sco.com id aa28528; 7 Aug 96 12:39 PDT From: Andrew Knutsen To: dlowe@best.com Subject: Re: NRR: Welfare (was "Socialism") Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: ScoMail 3.0.Bd MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9608071239.aa07032@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > From: David Lowe > Also, there are people who don't want to work. I'm all for that. And > there are people who are not willing to work below their skill levels, who > demand that a job meet their needs. And I'm all for that too. Nobody > should *have* to work in a miserable environment. So, You're Elected to hold the gun to each person's head who wants to make their life better, but does not want to pay for those who don't. Just make sure you don't make us miserable doing it, or we'll all starve... and you'll run out of bullets. It makes me feel so warm and fuzzy thinking how nice the world will be once we're all happily under your gun. I'm sure we can all trust someone with your confidence. AK (feeling bad about contributing to this thread, but hey, lots of people are doing it). ----------------------------------------- Andrew Knutsen andrewk@sco.com Santa Cruz Operation (408) 427-7538 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 12:51:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id MAA12110; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id MAA12103; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA05335; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:51:15 -0700 Received: from eon.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA11743; Wed, 7 Aug 96 12:51:14 PDT From: eric@nit.AirTouch.COM (Eric Pederson) Message-Id: <9608071951.AA11743@nit.AirTouch.COM> Subject: nation play times? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (SF Ravers List) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:51:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk anyone know the dj play times for nation? especially sasha/digweed? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 13:12:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA14579; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA14559; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA233716554; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:35:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:35:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: Nation 1995 review To: Begroovy@aol.com Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <960807032452_379564512@emout14.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk My boyfriend at the time did sound for that show and he gave me mixtapes of the sets done by Masters at Work (so-so) and Steve Loria (great). I didn't hear those artists mentioned in your review. Were they in another room spinning? just curious, Amy |> | |\ | | \| |> Amy Starkey | \ | sac41673@saclink1.csus.edu <| |\ | .................................. | \| |> "Can't tell the real from reflection | \ | When all these faces look the same to me" <| |\ | | \| DURAN DURAN | .................................. <| From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 13:13:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA14718; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:13:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA14710; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:13:12 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA28851; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:11:06 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:11:06 -0700 (PDT) To: Ulrike Laitko cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Ulrike Laitko wrote: > exactly. > it is a really oldfashioned misconception to assume things would get > any better if everybody just worked harder. Let's start by getting people to work, period. > to see that people, *ravers*, on this list still hang on this belief > and consider it a goal to _'function in society'_ and persecute everybody who > doesn't touches me quite strangely. yeah really, how can a *raver* be sooo > convinced that working, in the sense of 'getting a job', like, at mc donalds > or somewhere,is the ultimate way to spend your life? You know, I for one get real tired of this "I can't believe a *raver* would say XXXX." Who are you to tell me, or anyone else what they should believe to be a "raver?" Do I get kicked out of the "raver" club if I don't agree? No one is talking about persecuting people who don't "function in society." Let them run free and naked in the woods, unfettered by society's shackles, foraging for food and shelter. I don't care. When they want me to pay for their freedom, *THEN* I start to care. > who says that you have to justify your existence by struggling and working > yourself to death? Who is talking about working to death? I am just talking about working, period. > normally you don't earn money by making the world a nice place for > everybody, but by producing needless stuff, talking people into buying > needless stuff, do research in the name of progress (a concept that is > totally questionable nowadays), generally by contributing to the > limitless growth that is a consequence of capitalist economy and > inevitably fucks the world up. i mean, hey, how many of you actually bake > bread or teach children (or other sweet things to think of) to make a living? > *i don't*. Well then try to find a job in a field you feel good about. I feel good about what I do, and rather it meets your definition of usefulness is unimportant. > i think somebody who doesn't work might actually cause less overall damage > than somebody who does. Yes, and our race would have been extinct several million years ago had we embodied this philosophy. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 13:22:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA15538; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA15530; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id NAA20033; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:22:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199608072022.NAA20033@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Re: early life form on mars? (NRR Sort of?) To: mxman@illuminati.heald.edu (Aryck) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: jkawamoto@excite.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9608071942.AB03812@heald.edu> from "Aryck" at Aug 7, 96 12:42:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > >Check out http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/NewsRoom/today.html > > > >STATEMENT FROM DANIEL S. GOLDIN, NASA ADMINISTRATOR > > > > "NASA has made a startling discovery that points to the > >possibility that a primitive form of microscopic life may > >have existed on Mars more than three billion years ago. The > >research is based on a sophisticated examination of an ancient > >Martian meteorite that landed on Earth some 13,000 years ago. > >on 3880.0 megahertz, with audio on 6.8 megahertz. > > > > > Oh, and just in case people like partying this weekend (and you probably > do), me and Elvis (the king), will be throwing this phat-ass disco party in > the middle of pier 29. We rented out an old Lucky wharehouse complete with > all the sound equipment and lasers. My old work lent me the money and the > vehicles to make this all possible. Tickets will be $2.50, at the door or > free with a hug. There will be people from Terri's Treats walking around > passing out "E" , doses, Special K, killer skunk, crack, Heroin, and other > lovely treats. It will all be free once you get in. Please respect the > property and no sex in the chill rooms like last time (those cops were > pissing me off). > Spread the word. > #1-415-555-4646 > > YEAH RIGHT!!!! > > Aryck > For those of you that still think this is a joke: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wednesday August 7 2:43 PM EDT Clinton: US to Press Search for Life on Mars WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Clinton Wednesday hailed the discovery of possible signs of primitive life on Mars and said America will pour its scientific prowess into the effort to confirm this stunning breakthrough. ``I am determined that the American space program will put its full intellectual power and technological prowess behind the search for further evidence of life on Mars,'' Clinton said in a statement as he left on a political trip to California. ``If this discovery is confirmed it will surely be one of the most stunning insights into our universe that science has ever uncovered,'' Clinton said. ``Its implications are as far-reaching and awe-inspiring as can be imagined.'' He referred to a statement from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration saying that study of a meteorite, believed to have broken off from Mars and landed on Earth about four million years ago, ``points to the possibility that a primitive form of microscopic life may have existed on Mars more than three billion years ago.'' Clinton noted that the United States plans to launch an unmanned spacecraft on a Mars exploration mission in November. He said he had directed Vice President Al Gore to convene ``a bipartisan space summit'' at the White House later this year ''on the future of America's space program'' including how to pursue scientific questions raised by the Mars meteorite. ``We are committed to the aggressive plan we have put in place for the robotic exploration of Mars,'' Clinton said. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.eng.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 13:22:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA15594; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA15586; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:22:56 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA29361; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:20:23 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:20:23 -0700 (PDT) To: Ulrike Laitko cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Ulrike Laitko wrote: > > > On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 blkadder@value.net wrote: > > > The biggest single threat to the > > U.S. today aside from terrorist attack, is China. In a non-nuclear > > scenario, with a population over a billion people and a fairly advanced > > military, they would probably wipe the proverbial floor with us. > > wow. what makes you believe china has an interest in doing so? > how would that look like? thousands of little yellow critters coming over > the ocean in their small little boats/airplanes and wipe the floor with > *you*? Why does someone strike another? Power, or fear. > > Ponder this: The U.S. currently offers most favored nation trading status to > > a country that is one of the biggest perpetrators of human > > rights violations in the world, practices infanticide, and > > and violates any copyright they feel like. Is this the > > action of a country that doesn't have anything to fear? > > why didn't they offer that status to the late soviet union than? If I had to hazard a guess, the hardliners in power did not want American consumer products in their markets. > unfortunately i don't have the top ten of the biggest human rights > violators in the world available right now, but i think there are more reasons > beyoind sheer dismay why there is so much about infanticide and human > right violations in china in the media. Probably because they are so common in an industrialized nation. > check out the turks for more interesting, really disgusting human rights > violations. just for example. and did you know they still kill people for > being said to be witches in south africa. > so where's the great brouhaha about that? does it mean the us fear those > countries if they don't lay embargos on them or invade them right on the spot? No, it means that they don't matter enough for the U.S. to care about.(not my opinion, but proof should be in the lack of action.) Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 13:25:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA15996; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from horatio.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA15987; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from knegtel@localhost) by horatio.ucsf.EDU (940816.SGI.8.6.9/GSC4.24) id NAA28863 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:25:47 -0700 From: "Ronald Knegtel" Message-Id: <9608071325.ZM28861@horatio.ucsf.edu> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:25:46 -0700 In-Reply-To: blkadder@value.net "Re: [NRR] Socialism" (Aug 7, 12:47pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Aug 7, 12:47pm, blkadder@value.net wrote: > Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism > On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Jeremy Lawrence wrote: > > > Sure, these things are bad. What i was trying to say was that reducing > > welfare could well make the crime situation go downhill faster, with > > even more crime-related costs. > > Things are not only bad, but they have been getting progressively > worse. So should we continue the downward spiral? Continue to hand money > out, in perpetuity, to anyone who doesn't feel like working, and doesn't have > enough self respect to be embarrased by the fact that they are contributing > nothing to their own upkeep, or the well being of others from whom they > are leeching from? I think I will pass. I doubt if everybody on welfare has that attitude. On another note, the current situation is a result of many things like the position of blacks in the US for the past few hunderd years, proper sex-education to teenagers, and the basic theme that it's all about money, no matter how you get it. Some of these issues will remain unresolved, even by cutting welfare. If your poor, it will still be tough to find a job without a car, proper housing, education etc. [snip] > Saying that the crime-rate is going to increase if we cut people off > after five years is unlikely at best. Please read the following. It can > be found at http://www.newsarchives.com/archive/dec1495/rgd.htm/ > > > Report: Welfare Recipients Seeking Work in Wake of Benefit Cuts > > HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) - A change in the state's welfare system that cut > benefits to encourge recipients to seek jobs apparenlty is working, > according to state officials. > > Figures released Wednesday shows that the number of welfare parents who are > employed has gone up 30 percent since cash benefits were cut in July. > > Cash benefits for a typical family of three were cut in July from $581 a > month to $543 a month for welfare families in non-subsidized housing and > $500 monthly for those in subsidized housing. > > State statistics show that only 12.7 percent of welfare recipients reported > that they were working in June 1995, the month before the cuts in cash > benefits were enacted. > > The number of recipients working has increased every month since then, and > reached 16.5 percent in November. That represents an increase of about 30 > percent. This a very interesting and encouraging statistic, but I wonder what is happening to the remaining 84% of welfare recipients. Are they starving? May those be the people who either make money through crime or really are not lazy but cannot find a job? What will happen to them? And $500 to $600 isn't very much for a family of three. How do they pay rent, get their kids an education, eat properly etc.? > ``People are going to work,'' said Joyce A. Thomas, commissioner of the > Department of Social Services, which oversees welfare programs. ``It's > working.'' > > A review by the legislature's Office of Fiscal Analysis shows that welfare > reform measures are having a dramatic impact on parts of the state > budget. The state expected to save $133 million in two years because of the > measures, but the statistics show that even more money is being saved in > some categories because the number of people on welfare has already dropped. > > > Weird huh? Tell people they aren't going to get as much money, and > suddenly more people become employed. Must be some kind of voodoo magik.... Except for those 84 % that remain. They are probably feeling the pins of that voodoo magic... > > > Drive through some section 8 housing sometime. > > > > Sure, it may be ugly. But it's not clear that cutting welfare > > will improve the situation. > > But can't you see that the way things are being done now isn't working? To me it seems that many political and social measures in this country are based on treating symptoms. If there is a homeless problem, being homeless is made illegal. I wonder if we really understand what the problems are of those on welfare and why they remain on welfare for so long. Saying they're all a lazy bunch of parasites sounds a bit too easy. Remember, you may be the next person being laid of when your company decides it's stocks should rise. And the older you get, the tougher it gets to compete with the ever increasing number of young people after the same jobs. > > Black Adder The Frying Dutchman -- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 13:26:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA16038; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA16007; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:25:55 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA29620; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:25:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:25:51 -0700 (PDT) To: David Lowe cc: jlawrenc@cisco.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, David Lowe wrote: > > On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Jeremy Lawrence wrote: > > > > Social (IN)security is a pipedream for most of us as it will be > > > bankrupt by 2009(if memory serves.) > > > > That may be the case, but that is not an argument against the > > principle of welfare, only a particular system for providing it. > > This is also talking about social security as if it came out of a > seperate pocketbook than that which pays for the military. The social > security program may go bankrupt assuming that we continue to hand > billions and billions (is it into the trillions yet? Can't remember) to > the "defence" industry, and don't increase funding to social security, > and... > Suffice it to say, that's a bogus statistic. If we chose to misinterpret it as you have, yes. Take a look at your pay check stub sometime. There is an item seperate from Federal withholding, it says SSI. That means Social Security Insurance. Hmmm.... seems like a seperate deduction to me..... > In fact, cutting welfare would only make these people POORER, and would > thus have a tendency to increase crime rates, infant mortality, etc. The > only obvious solution (since there are NOT enough jobs, and I will stand > by that!) is to *increase* the amount they recieve. The problem is that > this goes rather strongly against the morals/ideals of the capitalist > founders and rulers (and citizens, but that's not important) of this > country. Cool. Let's start with you. Hand over your paycheck. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 13:30:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA16578; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA16563; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA18463; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (krok@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA00199; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:29:44 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:29:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Kyung Rok Reply-To: Kyung Rok To: KarenK420@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: COME-UNITY In-Reply-To: <960807003900_594101934@emout16.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Jeno, Simon, Garth, and Astral Matrix live (not in that particular order) The voicemail says they'll go on till 5 to accomodate the additional set. Rok. On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 KarenK420@aol.com wrote: > Hey all you party friends out there. > > Hope this week is going well for all of you. So, who's going to ComeUnity > tomorrow night? We can't wait to go, since we missed it last month due to > the line outside. > > And this is a party where we go all decked out........come out and dance with > us!!!!!! > > :-) Karen :-) > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 13:35:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA17074; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA17063; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA19753 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (plunkett@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA28179 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:30:05 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:30:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew James Plunkett To: SFRaves Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk (My apologies for continuing a blatantly NRR thread.) Risk factors for being a libertarian: - White - Male - Unmarried - No children - >= middle class - Works in computer industry When I pointed this out to a diehard libertarian, his response was, "Whaddaya want us to do? Have affirmative action?" ! -Matt From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 13:42:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA17998; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from biology.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA17985; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:42:48 -0700 (PDT) From: ecoman@darwin.UCSC.EDU Received: from localhost (ecoman@localhost) by biology.ucsc.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA14079 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:40:58 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:40:57 -0700 (PDT) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: How do I get interactive instruction for the listserv? In-Reply-To: <199608071942.MAA17281@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well that just about says it all. I want to look for dated articles. Is there any way to do this? Peace Steve From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 13:54:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA19203; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id NAA19184; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.86.220.227] (bwret.vip.best.com [206.86.220.227]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA00419 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:53:52 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:56:51 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: bwret@best.com (Alex Ward) Subject: come/unity Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk anyone got the #/info for the club?? I'd really appreciate it! -thanks- alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 13:58:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id NAA19501; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:58:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gw.fsr.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id NAA19477; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Maxine.lewiston.com (ppp246.lewiston.com [204.227.174.246]) by mail-gw.fsr.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA00268 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:57:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 13:57:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199608072057.NAA00268@mail-gw.fsr.net> X-Sender: tuskluv@mail.lewiston.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Wowser Subject: Jobs Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk There is definitely not a shortage of good jobs out there. But there is a shortage of dedication and drive. A friend of mine works at a small branch at a bank, who was looking for an assistant manager. The job was almost entry level, minimum experience required. Only TWO applicants applied. Another friend of mine owns her own janitorial service. She pays well. She cannot find reliable people to work. They either call in sick, show up late or quit after about a week. There are many more examples of this to be found. Reliable people are very scarce, education or not. Let's face it....there are jobs out there, regardless of what the media or the White House says. But there are not a lot of people who are willing to work. Troy J. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 14:00:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA19725; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA19719; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA02308; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:00:02 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:00:02 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lowe To: blkadder@value.net cc: jlawrenc@cisco.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 blkadder@value.net wrote: > > This is also talking about social security as if it came out of a > > seperate pocketbook than that which pays for the military. The social > > security program may go bankrupt assuming that we continue to hand > > billions and billions (is it into the trillions yet? Can't remember) to > > the "defence" industry, and don't increase funding to social security, > > and... > > Suffice it to say, that's a bogus statistic. > > If we chose to misinterpret it as you have, yes. Take a look at your pay > check stub sometime. There is an item seperate from Federal withholding, > it says SSI. That means Social Security Insurance. Hmmm.... seems like a > seperate deduction to me..... Seperate deducation yes. However, the decision on how much to make that deduction can be easily changed. Saying that the social security program will go bankrupt in X without further explanation *is* bogus, because changing the percentages would be an almost trivial task, if they wanted to do so. > > In fact, cutting welfare would only make these people POORER, and would > > thus have a tendency to increase crime rates, infant mortality, etc. The > > only obvious solution (since there are NOT enough jobs, and I will stand > > by that!) is to *increase* the amount they recieve. The problem is that > > this goes rather strongly against the morals/ideals of the capitalist > > founders and rulers (and citizens, but that's not important) of this > > country. > > Cool. Let's start with you. Hand over your paycheck. Well, the problem with that is, I don't see the government doing anything good with my money. I can make a donation to food not bombs or give food away on the streets, and I am doing better and more than if I paid higher taxes. Because our current government will spend my extra dollars on bombs, or to spy on its own people. I can do better. : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : : Every picture tells a LIE! : : - The Schwa Corporation : :: fingerprint: 1F E7 D3 24 04 18 72 67 CC E6 66 1B 79 79 CB 3A :: From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 14:03:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA19999; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA19990; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:03:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id OAA14569; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:03:15 -0700 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id OAA05684; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:03:14 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:03:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: early life form on mars? (NRR Sort of?) To: Troy Sheets cc: Aryck , jkawamoto@excite.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199608072022.NAA20033@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Troy Sheets wrote: > > For those of you that still think this is a joke: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Wednesday August 7 2:43 PM EDT > > Clinton: US to Press Search for Life on Mars > > WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Clinton Wednesday hailed the discovery of > possible signs of primitive life on Mars and said America will pour its > scientific prowess into the effort to confirm this stunning breakthrough. > > ``I am determined that the American space program will put its full > intellectual power and technological prowess behind the search for further > evidence of life on Mars,'' Clinton said in a statement as he left on a > political trip to California. [snip] Sounds like a ploy to beef up the military/space program in America. Ran -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 14:08:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA20495; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gw3.pacbell.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA20490; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from srv.PacBell.COM (mother.srv.PacBell.COM) by gw3.pacbell.com (5.x/PacBell-10/18/95) id AA03751; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:06:50 -0700 Received: from pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM by srv.PacBell.COM (4.1/Mother-7/26/95) id AA10808; Wed, 7 Aug 96 14:06:49 PDT Received: by pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19529; Wed, 7 Aug 96 14:06:48 PDT From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel) Message-Id: <9608072106.AA19529@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM> Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism To: blkadder@value.net Date: Wed, 7 Aug 96 14:06:48 PDT Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: ; from "blkadder@value.net" at Aug 7, 96 1:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk blackadder: > You know, I for one get real tired of this "I can't believe a *raver* > would say XXXX." Who are you to tell me, or anyone else what they should > believe to be a "raver?" Do I get kicked out of the "raver" club if I > don't agree? I used to think that there were certain basic things that people got from raving. A feeling of connectedness towards people different from ourselves, a less judgemental attitude toward things we don't quite understand, a greater sense of empathy towards humanity in general... Obviously, this was an idealistic view of mine. People go to raves for many reasons, often it's just a place were they can hang out with their clique, never letting go of their certain view of the world. Oh well, I guess raving really isn't any different from any other scene. > No one is talking about persecuting people who don't "function in society." > Let them run free and naked in the woods, unfettered by society's > shackles, foraging for food and shelter. I don't care. When they want me > to pay for their freedom, *THEN* I start to care. Although I often find myself in agreement with this simplistic viewpoint, something tells me that it is more wise not to judge an entire group of people whose world I have not lived in. > Well then try to find a job in a field you feel good about. I feel good > about what I do, and rather it meets your definition of usefulness is > unimportant. To me, this egocentric attitude of I-know-what's-good-for-me-so-fuck- everyone-else is a bigger problem in our society than a few people taking advantage of the welfare system. Lee _________________________________________________________________________ lxfogel@pacbell.com ( ( ( ( ((0)) ) ) ) ) lee@hyperreal.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 14:09:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA20602; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA20588; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA05078; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:08:57 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:08:57 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lowe To: Wowser cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Jobs In-Reply-To: <199608072057.NAA00268@mail-gw.fsr.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Wowser wrote: > There is definitely not a shortage of good jobs out there. But there is a > shortage of dedication and drive. A friend of mine works at a small branch > at a bank, who was looking for an assistant manager. The job was almost > entry level, minimum experience required. Only TWO applicants applied. > > Another friend of mine owns her own janitorial service. She pays well. She > cannot find reliable people to work. They either call in sick, show up late > or quit after about a week. > > There are many more examples of this to be found. Reliable people are very > scarce, education or not. Let's face it....there are jobs out there, > regardless of what the media or the White House says. But there are not a > lot of people who are willing to work. > > Troy J. Let's throw around some numbers. Approx pop. of the USA: 250 million Approx unemployment rate: 6% (this is being extremely conservative, because I haven't heard a recent figure.) Thus, there are approximately 13 million unemployed people (counting only those who are eligible to work) in this country. Are you saying that there are 13 million jobs available in this country? If so, I'm afraid you are simply wrong. What you're talking about in your message is a natural cycle. Jobs become available, jobs get filled, some of the workers don't work out. But the unemployment figures stay the same, and the number of jobs available at any given time also stays pretty much the same. What happens is that some people find jobs, and others leave or are fired, and occasionallly new jobs open up. It's a rotation, not a massive number of available jobs. At any given time, there are a fair number of jobs available - but check again in a few months, and it will be a different set of jobs. And by the way, number of applicants is not really representative of anything... depends too much on the visibility of the opening, the desirability of the opening, etc. : : J. David Lowe :: dlowe@best.com :: http://www.best.com/~dlowe/ : : : Every picture tells a LIE! : : - The Schwa Corporation : :: fingerprint: 1F E7 D3 24 04 18 72 67 CC E6 66 1B 79 79 CB 3A :: From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 14:16:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA21316; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sii.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA21311; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from siipo.sii.com (siipo.sii.com [155.190.2.6]) by sii.com (8.7.Beta.13/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id OAA05780; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:16:10 -0700 Received: by siipo.sii.com with Microsoft Mail id <320907AE@siipo.sii.com>; Wed, 07 Aug 96 14:16:30 PDT From: Steve Correa To: bwret , SFRaves Subject: RE: come/unity Date: Wed, 07 Aug 96 14:16:00 PDT Message-ID: <320907AE@siipo.sii.com> Encoding: 15 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Come Unity- House, Techno, Ambient w/DJs Simon, Jeno, Garth. first Wednesday of the month. 10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.241.8815 ---------- From: bwret To: sfraves Subject: come/unity Date: Wednesday, August 07, 1996 1:56PM anyone got the #/info for the club?? I'd really appreciate it! -thanks- alex From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 14:24:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA22027; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from inreach.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA22021; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppp2060.inreach.com (ppp075.inreach.com [205.138.224.75]) by inreach.com (8.7.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA09699 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19960807212752.31b70b6a@mail.inreach.com> X-Sender: gutman@mail.inreach.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: A-RON Subject: Wish Tonight? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ok.. so who's going to Wish tonight? Someone posted that Mars and Myster-E are going to throw down for us... I've never been to the Bahia, is it a nice space? *from the calendar* _Wish_ - techno, house w/DJs guests weekly. Lighting by EyeTribe 18+. Bahia, 1600 Market St, SF. 415.436.0663 -From the inpho line- Doors open @ 9. Free between 9-10, $10 after. Aaron. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 14:26:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA22272; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id OAA22262; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink2.berkeley.edu (uclink2.berkeley.edu [128.32.136.72]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA04249; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (krok@localhost) by uclink2.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA09794; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:22:15 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:22:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Kyung Rok Reply-To: Kyung Rok To: Alex Ward cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: come/unity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk 415-241-8815 You could have discovered this by looking at this week's SF Guardian, pg. 39, "Clubs and Events/Places to Experience Electronic Music" :( I haven't been to C/U in a while, but I know that they don't really need any extra exposure. Though it isn't that underground, it is comparatively low-key, and is best served by responsible word-of-mouth. Practicing what I preach, I've mouthed the word "ComeUnity" to a newbie friend, who I'll probably be bringing out tonight, and for whom C/U will be a good entry-level experience. Rok. On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Alex Ward wrote: > anyone got the #/info for the club?? I'd really appreciate it! > -thanks- > alex > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 14:35:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA23139; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA23128; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:35:14 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA04346; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:35:08 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:35:07 -0700 (PDT) To: Ronald Knegtel cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: <9608071325.ZM28861@horatio.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Ronald Knegtel wrote: > On Aug 7, 12:47pm, blkadder@value.net wrote: > > Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism > > On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Jeremy Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Sure, these things are bad. What i was trying to say was that reducing > > > welfare could well make the crime situation go downhill faster, with > > > even more crime-related costs. > > > > Things are not only bad, but they have been getting progressively > > worse. So should we continue the downward spiral? Continue to hand money > > out, in perpetuity, to anyone who doesn't feel like working, and doesn't have > > enough self respect to be embarrased by the fact that they are contributing > > nothing to their own upkeep, or the well being of others from whom they > > are leeching from? I think I will pass. > > I doubt if everybody on welfare has that attitude. On another note, the > current situation is a result of many things like the position of blacks > in the US for the past few hunderd years, proper sex-education to teenagers, > and the basic theme that it's all about money, no matter how you get it. > Some of these issues will remain unresolved, even by cutting welfare. > If your poor, it will still be tough to find a job without a car, proper > housing, education etc. I never said that all people on welfare have this attitude. That would be a very stupid generalization on my part. Welfare was designed to be there until people got on their feet. Well, now we have people that can't seem to get on their feet, ever, that are perfectly capable of standing up on their delicate tootsies and doing something to earn a living. The number of these type of people, the long term recipients, is increasing. I totally agree that we need to deal with the root of the problem. And throwing money at people is not dealing with the root of the problem, it is dealing with a symptom. > This a very interesting and encouraging statistic, but I wonder what is > happening to the remaining 84% of welfare recipients. Are they starving? > May those be the people who either make money through crime or really > are not lazy but cannot find a job? What will happen to them? And $500 > to $600 isn't very much for a family of three. How do they pay rent, > get their kids an education, eat properly etc.? Of course they are not starving. You have to factor in Section 8 housing, food stamps, and the free medical care. The point of me posting the article is that there are a good deal of people out there that are living their lives on welfare uncessarily. I would never, ever, want to do away with welfare. It does need to be changed, and their are a million ways to do so, to encourage people to work, rather than discouraging them as the current system does now. > > But can't you see that the way things are being done now isn't working? > > To me it seems that many political and social measures in this country > are based on treating symptoms. If there is a homeless problem, being > homeless is made illegal. I wonder if we really understand what the > problems are of those on welfare and why they remain on welfare for so > long. Saying they're all a lazy bunch of parasites sounds a bit too > easy. Remember, you may be the next person being laid of when your > company decides it's stocks should rise. And the older you get, the > tougher it gets to compete with the ever increasing number of young > people after the same jobs. Agreed. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 14:36:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA23234; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA23214; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp049-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.49]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id OAA28852 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:35:08 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960807213830.00cbca14@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 14:38:30 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Shock Treatment Clinic 99 Subject: Re: come/unity Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk i heard this funny rumour a while back that come/unity was full of satan worshipers?? ;) don't anyone _dare_ respond to this post! =) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 14:41:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id OAA23780; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:41:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id OAA23771; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:41:32 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA04731; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:41:30 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:41:29 -0700 (PDT) To: David Lowe cc: jlawrenc@cisco.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, David Lowe wrote: > > On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 blkadder@value.net wrote: > > > > This is also talking about social security as if it came out of a > > > seperate pocketbook than that which pays for the military. The social > > > security program may go bankrupt assuming that we continue to hand > > > billions and billions (is it into the trillions yet? Can't remember) to > > > the "defence" industry, and don't increase funding to social security, > > > and... > > > Suffice it to say, that's a bogus statistic. > > > > If we chose to misinterpret it as you have, yes. Take a look at your pay > > check stub sometime. There is an item seperate from Federal withholding, > > it says SSI. That means Social Security Insurance. Hmmm.... seems like a > > seperate deduction to me..... > > Seperate deducation yes. However, the decision on how much to make that > deduction can be easily changed. Saying that the social security program > will go bankrupt in X without further explanation *is* bogus, because > changing the percentages would be an almost trivial task, if they wanted > to do so. I don't believe that was the issue. You said: > > > This is also talking about social security as if it came out of a > > > seperate pocketbook than that which pays for the military. The social And all I am saying is that it *does* come out of a seperate pocketbook. > > > > In fact, cutting welfare would only make these people POORER, and would > > > thus have a tendency to increase crime rates, infant mortality, etc. The > > > only obvious solution (since there are NOT enough jobs, and I will stand > > > by that!) is to *increase* the amount they recieve. The problem is that > > > this goes rather strongly against the morals/ideals of the capitalist > > > founders and rulers (and citizens, but that's not important) of this > > > country. > > > > Cool. Let's start with you. Hand over your paycheck. > > Well, the problem with that is, I don't see the government doing > anything good with my money. I can make a donation to food not bombs or > give food away on the streets, and I am doing better and more than if I > paid higher taxes. Because our current government will spend my extra > dollars on bombs, or to spy on its own people. I can do better. Who does? I certainly don't like many of the things the government does with my paycheck either. And I think an excessive amount is going to defense, and to welfare. Do I get the option of not paying? Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 15:06:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA26431; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA26424; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:06:47 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA08626; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:05:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:05:10 -0700 (PDT) To: Lee Fogel cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism In-Reply-To: <9608072106.AA19529@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Lee Fogel wrote: > blackadder: > > You know, I for one get real tired of this "I can't believe a *raver* > > would say XXXX." Who are you to tell me, or anyone else what they should > > believe to be a "raver?" Do I get kicked out of the "raver" club if I > > don't agree? > > I used to think that there were certain basic things that people got > from raving. A feeling of connectedness towards people different from > ourselves, a less judgemental attitude toward things we don't quite > understand, a greater sense of empathy towards humanity in general... > > Obviously, this was an idealistic view of mine. People go to raves for > many reasons, often it's just a place were they can hang out with their > clique, never letting go of their certain view of the world. Oh well, > I guess raving really isn't any different from any other scene. 100% correct. There *are* cliques, things going on behind the scenes, stupid "power" struggles, etc. Because anyone chooses a scene to identify with, this does not change the fact that they are human beings and subject to all the strengths and weaknesses that being human entails. > > > No one is talking about persecuting people who don't "function in society." > > Let them run free and naked in the woods, unfettered by society's > > shackles, foraging for food and shelter. I don't care. When they want me > > to pay for their freedom, *THEN* I start to care. > > Although I often find myself in agreement with this simplistic viewpoint, > something tells me that it is more wise not to judge an entire group of > people whose world I have not lived in. I am not judging at all. I don't care what people who chose to function outside the strictures of society do. Again I am just saying I do not want to be financially responsible if that is their choice. How is that judgemental? > > Well then try to find a job in a field you feel good about. I feel good > > about what I do, and rather it meets your definition of usefulness is > > unimportant. > > To me, this egocentric attitude of I-know-what's-good-for-me-so-fuck- > everyone-else is a bigger problem in our society than a few people > taking advantage of the welfare system. Thanks for being so unjudgmental Lee. I can see you really live by your words. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 15:33:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA29126; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA29119; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id PAA26507; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:33:15 -0700 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id PAA08622; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:33:15 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:33:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: come/unity To: Shock Treatment Clinic 99 cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960807213830.00cbca14@pop.sirius.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Shock Treatment Clinic 99 wrote: > i heard this funny rumour a while back that come/unity was full of satan > worshipers?? > > ;) > > don't anyone _dare_ respond to this post! =) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [I just love it when people tell what not to do. ;) Ran -=*=- ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 15:39:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id PAA29745; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Zool.AirTouch.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id PAA29736; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nit.AirTouch.COM by Zool.AirTouch.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA09152; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:39:14 -0700 Received: from hacksaw.nit.airtouch.com by nit.AirTouch.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1/AirTouch-nit:MLC-940403-02) id AA13206; Wed, 7 Aug 96 15:39:12 PDT Date: Wed, 7 Aug 96 15:39:12 PDT From: timb@nit.AirTouch.COM (Tim Beauchamp) Message-Id: <9608072239.AA13206@nit.AirTouch.COM> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Socio-political Economics Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey all, Since I can't bring myself to join in this pseudo-political debate (for the first time in my life!!!!) maybe this will keep my fingers at bay. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the following table which a friend got from his accountant May 11, 1996--though I see nothing to lead me to beleive it is inaccurate. NOTE: This does not say where any of the money is coming from, I believe somebody mentioned Social Security having its own special income as does unemployment (at least to some degree) so not all this is coming from the general tax and therefore not all these items are `competing' for the same funds. $$$$ Share Social Security $352 21.8% Defense $264 16.3% (not including pensions) Net interest on the debt $242 15.0% Medicare $179 11.1% (minus premiums paid) Medicaid $ 99 6.1% Welfare $ 75 4.6% (but not food stamps or unemployment) Pensions $ 68 4.2% (civilian & military) Education & job programs $ 57 3.5% Veterans $ 38 2.3% Transportation $ 38 2.3% Food stamps $ 27 1.7% Unemployment $ 24 1.5% Law enforcement $ 20 1.2% Environment & resources $ 20 1.2% Health $ 19 1.1% (but not Medicare or Medicaid) Earned-income tax credit $ 18 1.1% Science & space $ 17 1.0% International, $ 17 1.0% including foreign aid Agriculture $ 13 .8% General government operations $ 11 .7% Regional & local development $ 9 .5% Energy $ 4 .2% Disaster relief $ 4 .2% Commerce $ 3 .2% TOTALS (after rounding) $1.62 trillion 100% Column 2, which I have labeled $$$, was originally ``Fiscal '96 Spending (In billions)''. Column 3, which I have labeled ``Share'', was originally ``Share Of Total''. I say we cancel our loan and stop paying that debt! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 16:03:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA02127; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:03:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ptv.lbl.gov by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA02119; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.3.15.136] by ptv.lbl.gov with SMTP (MailShare 1.0fc5); Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:02:44 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:09:08 -0700 To: A-RON From: heidi@ptv.lbl.gov (Heidi Blais) Subject: Re: Wish Tonight? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'm a goin' H >Ok.. so who's going to Wish tonight? Someone posted that Mars and Myster-E >are going to throw down for us... I've never been to the Bahia, is it a >nice space? > >*from the calendar* > > _Wish_ - techno, house w/DJs guests weekly. Lighting by EyeTribe > 18+. Bahia, 1600 Market St, SF. 415.436.0663 > >-From the inpho line- Doors open @ 9. Free between 9-10, $10 after. > >Aaron. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 16:09:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA02662; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA02651; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from (solle@srf-ca3-23.ix.netcom.com [199.182.131.119]) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA11415 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:09:13 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:09:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199608072309.QAA11415@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> From: solle@ix.netcom.com (Sunny) Subject: Re: COME-UNITY!!!!! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Jeno, Simon, Garth, and Astral Matrix live Look for me in a sweat-soaked Solle San Frandisco-T and make sure to say HI! Man with that line-up, I'll be there with balls on...errr.. I mean bells. Your Pal, -SUNNY! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 16:15:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA03119; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA03114; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp045-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.45]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.6.12/960710) with SMTP id QAA02094 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:14:13 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960807231735.00b51628@pop.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@pop.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 16:17:35 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Shock Treatment Clinic 99 Subject: Re: Socio-political Economics Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Defense $264 16.3% > Education & job programs $ 57 3.5% damn. that one's the kicker. fucking outrageous. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 16:17:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA03311; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shgc.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id QAA03304; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by shgc.Stanford.EDU (8.7.4/inc-1.0) id XAA10501; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 23:17:38 GMT Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:17:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Piercy To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: come-Unity... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I'll be there too, the line last month was nasty!! been looking forward to hearing garth for months(astral matrix is sappose to do a live set also), I'm even draggin people from work out!(thurs. should be interesting)..look for the shaved-headed-guy with stoopid glasses and big shoes gettin some excersise. SeeYA MArk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996 KarenK420@aol.com wrote: > Hey all you party friends out there. > Hope this week is going well for all of you. So, who's going to ComeUnity> > tomorrow night? We can't wait to go, since we missed it last month due to > the line outside. > And this is a party where we go all decked out........come out and dance with> > us!!!!!! > :-) Karen :-)> From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 16:18:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA03381; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA03369; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:18:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id OAA01875; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:52:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:52:19 -0700 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199608072152.OAA01875@netcom.netcom.com> To: gutman@inreach.com CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-reply-to: <1.5.4.16.19960807212752.31b70b6a@mail.inreach.com> (message from A-RON on Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:31:18 -0700 (PDT)) Subject: Re: Wish Tonight? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > Ok.. so who's going to Wish tonight? Someone posted that Mars and Myster-E > are going to throw down for us... I've never been to the Bahia, is it a > nice space? > The Bahia's pretty nice; as I was telling someone else, my usual complaint is that there are too many places to sit there, but other than that, the dance floor's pretty cozee, and the visuals are enjoyable. I'll be there; say 'hi' - I'm on the short side with bleached hair and clear-framed sunglasses; Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com ssimitzi@us.oracle.com | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-494-7987 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 16:58:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id QAA06595; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:58:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom2.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id QAA06576; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:58:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from madox@localhost) by netcom2.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id QAA27410; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:58:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:58:17 -0700 (PDT) From: TEMPoNAUT Subject: Re: [NRR] Socialism To: David Lowe cc: jlawrenc@cisco.com, blkadder@value.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > only obvious solution (since there are NOT enough jobs, and I will stand > by that!) is to *increase* the amount they recieve. The problem is that not enough jobs? hmm...let's say we crack down and cut off all illegal immigration into this country and deport all aliens. who's going to work in the fields now? who's going to do grunt labor? gee, i now see jobs that americans can do. there are plenty of jobs in this country, but americans just dont want to go out and do hard work. the aliens will do this, but not the welfare americans. trust me, there ARE tons of jobs out there that people can do. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 17:00:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA06788; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:00:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA06783; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:00:03 -0700 (PDT) From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA17056; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:00:00 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 16:59:59 -0700 (PDT) To: Shock Treatment Clinic 99 cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Socio-political Economics In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960807231735.00b51628@pop.sirius.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Shock Treatment Clinic 99 wrote: > > Defense $264 16.3% > > Education & job programs $ 57 3.5% > damn. that one's the kicker. fucking outrageous. Agreed! Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 17:20:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA08673; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA08659; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA13578 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:20:12 -0700 Received: (ptiger@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA22642; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:19:55 -0700 From: ptiger@sophistem.com (Purple Tiger) Newsgroups: list.sfraves To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Casting Call: Wireframe People Troupe Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 16:58:35 -0400 Organization: Purple Tiger Sophistems Message-ID: <7NQCywEOwOCA084yn@sophistem.com> X-Newsreader: Yarn 0.84 with YES 0.20 Lines: 12 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Some of you may remember my glow neckless body suit from F&F Holloween. I'm rolling out my new and improved "ultra-comfort" version at Burning Man. I'd like to assemble a troupe of glowing wireframe people that descend in mass upon Burning Man and later at Raves. If you like to be under the bright light of performance, and wearing those lights, drop me an email. - PT -- < Purple Tiger (ptiger@sophistem.com) | http://www.cybernetix.com/~ptiger > < Sophistem = Sophisticated Software Systems > "Let the tigers come, I have my thorns." - A Very Vain Rose From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 17:20:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA08683; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA08665; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA13599 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:20:14 -0700 Received: (ptiger@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA22639; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:19:54 -0700 From: ptiger@sophistem.com (Purple Tiger) Newsgroups: list.sfraves To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 16:49:37 -0400 Organization: Purple Tiger Sophistems Message-ID: References: <199608052228.PAA07677@netcom13.netcom.com> X-Newsreader: Yarn 0.84 with YES 0.20 Lines: 23 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The Epicenter sells glow sticks on the web. http://TheEpicenter.com/lights.html. If you want to buy A LOT this month, talk to me. I'm working up a bulk order to drop the per piece price. In article <199608052228.PAA07677@netcom13.netcom.com>, ephedra@netcom.com (ephedrina) wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone on this list knows where I could buy > lots and lots of glow sticks cheap (like $1 or so) and soon, > like in he next week or two..? > > I MUST HAVE THEM > > thanks in advance for any helpful leads.. :) > > kia > -- < Purple Tiger (ptiger@sophistem.com) | http://www.cybernetix.com/~ptiger > < Sophistem = Sophisticated Software Systems > This email has officially been declared and OJ free zone. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 17:22:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA08832; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA08825; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from simitzis@localhost) by netcom.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA07623; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:15:55 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:15:55 -0700 From: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Message-Id: <199608080015.RAA07623@netcom.netcom.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: TB303 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hiya - This is directed to any musicians on the list. I've decided it's finally time to break down and add a TB303 to my arsenal... Unfortunately, they are of course hard to find, so I've been looking at clones. The Fatman seems nice, as does the Syntecno "TeeBee" TB303. Also, it seems that it would be nice to have MIDI to ease some of the sync/timing issues. So do any of you more musically inclined SFR'ers have the scoop on these clone boxes? Of course, if you know anyone who's selling the real thing, I'd love to know :) Thanks! Steve -- Steve Simitzis | simitzis@netcom.com ssimitzi@us.oracle.com | "Hup!" - R. Crumb | simitzis /sim' - i - jees/ (n) an unpronounceable string of random letters | | Oracle Server Technologies - it's not just a job, it's a wardrobe | | operators are standing by : 415-494-7987 (H/VM->P) | From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 17:25:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA09002; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from natsemi-bh.nsc.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with SMTP id RAA08997; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:24:58 -0700 (PDT) From: TBOBSC@tevm2.nsc.com Received: (from uucp@localhost) by natsemi-bh.nsc.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id RAA29044 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:13:09 -0700 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by natsemi-bh.nsc.com via smap (V1.3) id sma018447; Wed Aug 7 16:49:40 1996 Received: from tevm2.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA20170 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 7 Aug 96 16:48:15 -0700 Message-Id: <9608072348.AA20170@nsc.nsc.com> Received: from TEVM2 by tevm2.nsc.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 1086; Wed, 07 Aug 96 16:48:59 PDT Date: Wed, 07 Aug 96 16:48:59 PDT To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Socio-political Economics Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk FROM: Robert Brown *** Resending note of 08/07/96 16:17 SUBJECT: Re: Socio-political Economics >> Defense $264 16.3% >> Education & job programs $ 57 3.5% >damn. that one's the kicker. fucking outrageous. Mmm, hardly. These are federal gov't spending figures and the states provide the vast majority of education spending. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 17:32:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA09647; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA09637; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:32:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Sami Khoury Message-Id: <199608080032.RAA09637@taz.hyperreal.com> Subject: Re: TB303 To: simitzis@netcom.com (Steve Simitzis) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199608080015.RAA07623@netcom.netcom.com> from "Steve Simitzis" at Aug 7, 96 05:15:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > been looking at clones. The Fatman seems nice, as does the Syntecno > "TeeBee" TB303. Also, it seems that it would be nice to have MIDI to > ease some of the sync/timing issues. You might also look at Roland's MC-303 -- it's supposed to clone a few of the popular x0x's in one easy-to-tote box. :) Sami From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 17:35:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA09843; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA09837; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA28349; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.5/8.6.12) id RAA17117; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:34:06 -0700 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199608080034.RAA17117@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: Jobs To: tuskluv@lewiston.com (Wowser) Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:34:05 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199608072057.NAA00268@mail-gw.fsr.net> from "Wowser" at Aug 7, 96 01:57:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > There is definitely not a shortage of good jobs out there. But there is a > shortage of dedication and drive. A friend of mine works at a small branch > at a bank, who was looking for an assistant manager. The job was almost > entry level, minimum experience required. Only TWO applicants applied. > > Another friend of mine owns her own janitorial service. She pays well. She > cannot find reliable people to work. They either call in sick, show up late > or quit after about a week. > > There are many more examples of this to be found. Reliable people are very > scarce, education or not. Let's face it....there are jobs out there, > regardless of what the media or the White House says. But there are not a > lot of people who are willing to work. > > Troy J. > Troy, were you napping when I posted last week that I was looking for work? Something part-time, hopefully, while I go to school to learn to be a programmer. I am dead serious. Please tell your two friends that I would love to send them a resume. I love to clean, and I bet I would love the hours. But I hear being an assistant bank manager pays better. The thought of being an assistant bank manager, I admit, has not once entered my head until now, but I would be willing to give it a shot. Yet, the more I think about it, the more lovely it seems to me to get to work in a bank. Whenever I go to my credit union, I feel very welcome. The tellers tell me how my money's doing and usually seem to recognize me. I think they play this game where they try to remember every customer. I also enjoy getting to meet lots and lots of people- one reason I go to raves a lot. I bet you lots of ravers work in banks, too. In fact, my boyfriend ran into one of the tellers of HIS credit union at the FnF party. We then both agreed: that credit union is pretty cool. By and large, my banking experiences have been very positive. Although I have absolutely no idea what goes on in a bank -except from that Jimmy Stewart movie It's a Wonderful Life- I'm sure that I could learn. So please tell your friend that I am available for an assistant bank manager training program. Respectfully yours, Ann Loraine From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Aug 7 17:55:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) id RAA11369; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from umr.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.7.5/V2.0) with ESMTP id RAA11364; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 17:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from saucer.cc.umr.edu (saucer.cc.umr.edu [131.151.1.58]) via ESMTP by hermes.cc.umr.edu (8.7.5/R.4.16) id TAA08594; Wed, 7 Aug 1996 19:55:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from (rkumar@localhost) by sau