From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 00:09:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id AAA22815; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 00:09:30 -0800 Received: from orion.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA22809; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 00:09:27 -0800 Received: (from star@localhost) by orion.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id AAA22510; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 00:09:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 00:09:26 -0800 (PST) From: Starchild X-Sender: star@orion To: Friends & Family Subject: San Diego info needed! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Dear Friends & Family, My girlfriend & I are going to San Diego & possibly Mexico for a few days. This is rather last minute. If someone knows the address for SoCal Raves, or San Diego Raves, or whatever the appropriate list is for that area, if you could send it to me ASAP I'd appreciate it. We're also interested in anything of a non-rave nature to do in San Diego or Mexico that any of you would highly recommend, as well as of course any events in the area known to be happening! We are definitely on a budget, so if there's anyone from San Diego or thereabouts reading this who would enjoy putting up a couple friendly people for a night, please get in touch! :) Much love & thanks, <<< Starchild >>> P.S. - I've been fairly busy leading up to this week (my Spring Break), and haven't kept up with this list at all, so my apologies if you've sent me email or responded to something I posted earlier and not heard back. I hope to devote some serious time to the computer on my return... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 00:33:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id AAA24527; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 00:33:09 -0800 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA24522; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 00:33:06 -0800 Received: from [153.37.82.109] (pool045.Max3.Santa-Clara.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.82.109]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA00332; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 00:31:30 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 00:32:44 +0200 To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy), sfraves@hyperreal.com From: exodus@earthlink.net (Austin) Subject: Re: Underground Responsibility Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I have had good and bad experiences with introducing people to our family. I introduced this girl (lets call her Jen) to parting in January. I say I did because her first party was acctually Cruel World and she wasn't too sure about going again. I explained her the difference between Cruel World and the parties I go to. I took her to Plastic on the 6th at the S.C. Civic. She loved it. Then I took her to Chrystalis she had a great time, however, she too complained about the Acme. Since then she goes every weekend with her stickers, whistle, trip toys, everything need for a great time. (I think Nancy and Shawna would get allong great with her.) You should see her now though - she insists she knows the meaning of life and she thinks she's the shit when it comes to know-how about parties, raves, drugs, love, etc. Her head has grown a little too much but I still love her. IrieIrisGuy and I too his cousin to basics a couple a weeks ago. He had a good time, stayed till the end, wanted see what all the hype about e was, got into the music a little, but over all it just wasn't his thing. He respected our life style, told us what he like and didn't like and that was fine. (Kevin ya wanna elaborate for us *lurker*) This is the happy story. There's a girl who I was seeing but stopped cuz she had alot of mental problems and was very self concious (too he point of belimicy [is this a word -sp?] was belimic). She couldn't talk to strangers, and couldn't respect people's coments even though she was very good looking. I introduced her to raves back in Dec. but she had a bad time. She just started going again last month and she is total changed. She can now look at people in the eye because so many people have showed her love and acceptance. She has friends now, she is no longer belimic, and she is a happy person. What's ironic is her parents wanted to pay for some theropy for her but a few all night parties and lots of love have cured her non-social behavior. I am happy for her. Much love to S.F __/-^-\__ <<<>>> `'\-*-/`' _@_/` ~\_e_/~ _G/ O ~\_Q_ ~\_8_| _9_ ~/ }} (*) < =99 /|\ (.)\, [#] ,/ }}\, \\ /| ~\/ \ _=3D=3D=3D___=3D=3D=3D_ // / \ /\/ // \\ / [___________] \\ \ / \ ~~ ~~ ~ ^ ^ ~~ ~ ~ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 00:59:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id AAA26069; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 00:59:03 -0800 Received: from Propeller.Catch22.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA26041; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 00:58:59 -0800 Received: from [204.182.15.101] (rozencrantz.Catch22.COM [204.182.15.101]) by Propeller.Catch22.COM (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA13513 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 00:32:44 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 00:32:44 -0800 X-Sender: marc@catch22.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: marc@catch22.com (Marc Anthony) Subject: RE: Lurkers Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >So, I would like to know who is out there in the audience! I was wondering >if you could do us all the favor of a quick post saying your name and hi, >just so we know who is out there, listening and thinking. I love you all! >- Nancy Well, who could resist such a charming invitation! :-) My name is Marc Anthony. No joke - that's my real name. On the net, however, "Marc Anthony" doubles as my nom-de-plume, since most people assume it's too wierd to be real when I tell them, and that I must be giving them a fake name to remain anonymous. So it goes... I'm only a part-time partier - but a full-time Internet lurker, to be sure. I show up at various SFraves - often with other people from Catch-22, where I work. There is a group of us that go to raves, regularly. Sunsets are always my personal favorite. Next time I'm out, I'll have to make sure I pick out a few SFravers and say 'hello'. Thanks for encouraging outsiders to speak up. Participation is *so* much more fulfilling than a peepshow. ;-) Tah! PS - I think this should be a annual event : The "Rousting of the Lurkers". Come one come all. Marc Anthony "The suspense Catch-22 Internet, Inc. is killing me. ******************** I hope it lasts." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 01:02:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA26382; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 01:02:44 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA26372; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 01:02:41 -0800 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp051-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.51]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id BAA18646 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 01:02:42 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960401090212.006d02c0@moon.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@moon.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 01:02:12 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Static 99 Subject: Voice from the Shadows (A Lurker Lies Here) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I just joined the list a few days ago, and after reading Nancy's post I've decided to come out of hiding and introduce myself. I moved to San Mateo from Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario mid-november, but only managed to attend my first rave here last night - the Chrysalis party. It was a great party, and I was terribly dissapointed when I had to leave at 1 (yes, 1.. you may all laugh at me) to take my friend home, who had to go to work early the next day. If you went to Chrysalis (before 1 ) you probably saw me... I'm 6'0, with dark medium length hair, and I was wearing an orange shirt with a big tooth on it. some responses to various posts: Nancy- Such a sad story about your friend. But it's best to keep trying. If you can help one person realize something new it will be worth everything. I too brought a newbie to Chrysalis and she loved it. She kept going on about what a great vibe the party had, and she's dying for me to bring her to another party. John- " These bad vibes that we are trying to keep out of the party will never go away, until we accept them and conquer them. This doesn't mean forcing them to see our enlightened way, but allowing ourselves to see theirs. When we can, we begin to notice that our ways are actually very similar, if not the same, and thats when we can move together into the future." I have to disagree with you here. I don't believe that we, or anyone for that matter, should be trying to 'conquer' anything. That would be a contradiction to the concept of love and respect. It's this kind of my-way-is-best attitude that colonists who forced their religions on indigenous peoples had. Do you really want to take that position? If the rave spirit is really the best way, then people will naturally gravitate that way, given the oppurtunity to think clearly. Also, how can someone with a narrow mind and someone with an open mind have the same ways? Doesn't the person with the narrow mind rely on their prejudices to see the world while the person with an open mind does not? Clinton- It was disheartening for me to hear that narcotics have infiltrated the rave scene here. I'm glad you had a great experience anyway though. Everyone- are there any Cyborganics sub'd to this list? And can anyone tell me which DJs spin Goa? Anyone feel free to email me, I need a little intellectual stimulation - school certainly isn't providing it. :( peace. Brendan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 06:06:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id GAA24031; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 06:06:08 -0800 Received: from santaka.sc-uni.ktu.lt by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id GAA23971; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 06:05:38 -0800 Received: from kma.lt (kma_sc.kma.lt [193.219.37.253]) by santaka.sc-uni.ktu.lt (8.7/8.7) with SMTP id RAA08683 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:04:33 GMT Received: from KMA_SC/KMA_MAIL by kma.lt (Mercury 1.13); Mon, 1 Apr 96 17:05:14 +0000 (MET) Received: from KMA_MAIL by KMA_SC (Mercury 1.13); Mon, 1 Apr 96 17:04:56 +0000 (MET) From: "Tadas Jurevicius" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:04:48 +0000 (MET) Subject: MIDI files Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <1C457807DE@kma.lt> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Hellow everybody! I want to ask you for one favour.Maybe somebody has some cool sounding rave\techno\hardcore samples in MIDI format.I need them very much, so i would be very thankful for it. Thanks, Tadas From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 07:02:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id HAA27984; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 07:02:37 -0800 Received: from odin.community.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA27978; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 07:02:34 -0800 Received: from n164.solano.community.net (n147.solano.community.net [140.174.119.147]) by odin.community.net with SMTP id HAA27779 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 07:01:52 -0800 Received: by n164.solano.community.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BB1F98.A87BDB40@n164.solano.community.net>; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 06:58:40 -0800 Message-ID: <01BB1F98.A87BDB40@n164.solano.community.net> From: b e n c h u n To: "'SFR'" Subject: it's that day again... Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 06:58:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Important notice for April 1, 1996. Our annual system "spring cleaning" gets underway Monday here at community.net, and by about 11:30 a.m. we will be blowing the dust out of the modem cables. Some of the back-presure may travel along the phone lines affecting list members who are reading their mail at that time. This may cause dust to spray out of your keyboard, mouse and modem if it's an external one. In order to prevent this you might want to cover these items with a clean cloth or handkerchief during the half hour from 11:30 to noon. This particular process will not run past noon and will only occur once this year. Thanks for understanding. B E N C H U N --------------------------------------------------------------------------- H O M E: W O R K: ben_chun@community.net webmaster@platform-horizons.com http://community.net/~ben_chun/ http://www.platform-horizons.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 09:13:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA06880; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:13:12 -0800 Received: from webe.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA06873; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:13:09 -0800 Received: (from moonpup@localhost) by webe.hooked.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA19059; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:13:09 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:13:09 -0800 From: Milton Cecil Message-Id: <199604011713.JAA19059@webe.hooked.net> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: inheritance $$$ Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: WOW !! just when I thought I was going to have to give it all up..........I find out I have a large inhritance coming to me...........now I can buy my own party's.......so watch out for moonpups new sound system and come listen to trance all day long at my expense !!! I'm looking for DJ's willing to DJ for free, and I need some e dealers to help distribute the goodies ......... I want lots of hug controversies, and don't forget to bring your new rave dictionaries... we'll have a symposium on M.D.M.A. and we'll have to be sure to either wear day glo outfits or come nude!! please be sure to invite your favorite old friends and we'll have a newbie attitude test inside the gabber tent........ oh yeah one more thing...... APRIL FOOLS............. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 09:16:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA07186; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:16:48 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA07181; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:16:45 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA20714 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:16:44 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA25850 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:16:41 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA15587 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:16:38 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:18:18 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: Respect for Acme! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: The location does contribute to everyone's enjoyment (or not) of a party, but it's above all the PARTY that's good or bad before the location itself. When someone says "[insert venue here] sucks" they usually mean "[said location] is a bad place for parties." My two yen :) - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 09:31:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA08458; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:31:05 -0800 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA08452; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:31:02 -0800 From: volt@best.com Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA16527 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 08:58:24 -0800 Received: from .best.com (volt.vip.best.com [206.86.76.239]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA04990 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 08:54:53 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 08:54:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199604011654.IAA04990@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: volt@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Hey, Lurkers! (yeah, you!) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: At 05:17 PM 3/31/96 -0800, Nancy wrote: >With realizing >there are 400 people, and random people I've never heard of recognizing me >at parties from SFR desciptions, I suddenly saw that this "private" >conversation is more like 20 people on a stage with microphones, with 400 >people in the audience. I'd agree with that. I've been on the list almost a month now, but haven't been terribly enthusiastic about posting (also, I haven't had much to say, this stuff is still pretty new to me). Anyways, for the _formal_ introduction: my full name is Voltaire T. Dacanay (I go by volt). I attended UCLA, got my degree in Russian Studies in 1993, and for the past few years have been working in computer information systems and as a gymnastics coach (it doesn't pay terribly well, but I derive great satisfaction in knowing I can and have helped people on any level, plus I would like to continue competitive tumbling if my ankle ever heals). I've been taking classes at a local j.c. so I can either go back for a second bachelor's or a master's in *i really have no idea what*. Physically, I'm short (5'3"), 140 lbs (most of which resides above the belt -- I have chicken legs), filipino, short black hair, no distinguishing body piercings or tattoos, and love to eat, dance, tumble and play volleyball. (And yes I can do a backflip -- you wouldn't believe how many people ask me that.) Oh yeah, and at this particular point in my life I lack direction. The initial attraction to raving for me was admittedly to check out the hedonistic ritual currently in vogue, but after reading a few posts from the list I saw that there was much more to it than just that. I find that when I'm searching for inner peace (which for me entails some semblance of direction and/or decorum), I'll go to great lengths to achieve it, and after reading some of the posts I thought maybe ravers are searchers too, only more open and supportive of one another in their searching, and perhaps we have more in common than meets the eye. So that's why I've been checking things out. I could, of course, be completely wrong, which has been known to happen not infrequently. I must say I'm still not completely comfortable with "the scene", having been to very few events. I still feel like there's something missing when I'm out there. I see faces but I can't remember names so I don't go up and say 'hi' too much, I'm still too inhibited and self-conscious to try. But I'd still like to try. Who knows, maybe with time I'll meet more of you and actually fit into your big happy community, but for now I'm on the outside looking in. PLUR, volt From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 09:45:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA09875; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:45:37 -0800 Received: from dub-img-5.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA09865; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:45:25 -0800 Received: by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id MAA25824; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:43:07 -0500 Date: 01 Apr 96 12:40:51 EST From: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" Subject: Re: Welcome Lurkers! Message-ID: <960401174051_71165.755_GHL122-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: It's so cool that Nancy posted to invite the "lurking audience" to show themselves to the group! I had the great pleasure of meeting Nancy recently, and seeing her on Friday night at Nikita (where she was a little surprised that the "club" scene that night was filled with some of us regular ravers too) - and at Chrysalis, where we talked after her friend decided to leave, not liking what was REALLY a good party with GREAT people (thank you Gateway Systems!) -- It is so amazing to me as I continue to meet and re-greet people I've first gotten to know on this group -- I've been planning to move to Seattle, partly because the scene up there is a little smaller and more open and welcoming -- but over the last 2 months, meeting more SFRavers and expanding my group of friends at parties, I'm having second thoughts about leaving SF. If you haven't started to meet people from SFR yet, JUST DO IT! And I LOVE seeing the responses and introductions from you lurkers -- I know a lot of people think others may not be interested in who we are or what we think, but that's really not true -- share your thoughts and ideas! And ... just in case you've missed my thousand and one descriptions of who I am .... I'm hard to miss -- I'm a voluptuous (chubby?) older (than most of you, anyway) woman, I (almost always) wear crazy vintage hats (a white straw derby with a bow on the back at Chrysalis and an orange straw hat with fringe around the edges at Nikita this week), I have tattoos on both shoulders, wear LOTS of silver bracelets, and am usually found in a corner somewhere dancing my heart out (or is that my heart open?) So, don't be shy, I'm really nice and would love to meet you! See you at ComeUnity! Leslie : ) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 09:50:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA10348; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:50:33 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA10343; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:50:31 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA22367 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:50:28 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA28943; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:50:25 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA22796; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:50:22 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:52:02 -0800 To: volt@best.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: Hey, Lurkers! (yeah, you!) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Volt, Thanks and welcome! I look forward to your bud blossoming and joining our beautiful garden! Peace, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 10:18:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA13260; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:18:05 -0800 Received: from relay5.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA13250; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:17:59 -0800 Received: from uucp3.UU.NET by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQajoz28528; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:16:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from rts2.UUCP by uucp3.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:17:56 -0500 Received: from hp700.unrrts.com (hp700.unrrts.com [198.252.162.70]) by rts.unrrts.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA06869; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:55:32 -0800 Received: from localhost (george@localhost) by hp700.unrrts.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA13642; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 09:58:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199604011758.JAA13642@hp700.unrrts.com> X-Authentication-Warning: hp700.unrrts.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: davidmin@crl.com (David Minuk) cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, george@unrrts.com Subject: Re: Negativland! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 30 Mar 1996 05:09:38 GMT." <315cc0b4.523666401@mail.crl.com> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 09:58:36 -0800 From: George Feil Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: David, What time and frequency is "Over the Edge"? I'm a big old Negativland fan who just recently moved to the Bay Area, and haven't gotten completely familiar with the airwaves here yet. George From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 10:28:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA14247; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:28:47 -0800 Received: from elaine39.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA14242; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:28:44 -0800 Received: from localhost (mohack@localhost) by elaine39.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22095 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:28:42 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine39.Stanford.EDU: mohack owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:28:42 -0800 (PST) From: Kristofer Ananda Carrison X-Sender: mohack@elaine39.Stanford.EDU To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: intro Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Hi, my name is Krishna. I've been lurking for about three weeks, but I've been using sfraves weekly calender since last july. Around may last year I began to rave, although I went to a really fun new years party in the city that was seed for my future. I had a tight group of friends who I went out with sometimes four times a week, after-parties and all. You may have met some of them; Oliver, Mark(green hair), Grady, Jason, all totally xstatic Stanford students breaking away from years of indoctrination and bullshit. That summer was monumental for all of us. It was the first time we had ever felt communal love, and we we're swept up in the intensity of it. Well, school rolled around all too soon, and we all freaked out in our own ways I retreated to Mendocino and got really sick for three months. My friends thought that I bailed out on the friendship, and maybe I did, but I needed for my own sanity to get healthy. I had to catch up on numerous missed nights of sleep. I was pretty damaged. School was not even an option. Anyway, I'm feeling really healthy now, and have learned alot about myself. I realize it's not required to go to evey after-party that exists. Although, I would probabally be going out more frequently now if I had a car. I had a phenominal time at the sfraves cabin trip. Moonpup, you're a gas. Steveo, thanks for totally out doing yourself. Oh, let me see, I'm 5'8, I have a blue spiral snake wrapped around my right forearm. I have a long strip of bleached hair sprouting out of the top of my head. Melissa tells me, "You have a cute little pink rosebud" but I'm not so sure. I can never stop dancing. I love to dance almost more than anything. That's enough I guess. Except that I'm currently working on a house dancing video for a school project. Does anyone have any crazy dancing video footage they'd let me borrow? It would never go public. It's just for myself. Hope to party with you all soon. Don't hesitate to introduce yourselves. Perky Boobs Flying Everywhere Krishna. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 10:30:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA14521; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:30:57 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA14511; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:30:53 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA24632 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:30:51 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA03410 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:30:49 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA02297 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:30:46 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:32:26 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Chrysalis virgin no more! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: [Non-rave portion] This past weekend was the best so far this year for me, in and outside of the rave scene! The bands I played in rocked at the party on Friday, and everyone there had a great time. My band's original guitarist showed up (haven't seen him in months!), to my surprise, and joined us all on stage. He's exceptional, and a beautiful person, and will be living in the Chico area for a while, from what I understand. After the party, my friends and I hung out at my drummer's sister's place, where some of us got pretty fungal :) [Rave portion] Marty, Todd, and I are no longer Chrysalis virgins after Saturday night's party! First, we all met each other for the first time at the Golden Gate Park party, where I also saw some newer and older friends (hi everyone!), but not many people I knew among all who were there. Marty spotted me by my ponytail :) I enjoyed the park and the weather, and thanks to Carin I'm not lobster-red! I danced a bit, but the dust kicked my butt (make that sinus). I sneezed for days, and my nose wouldn't stop running for hours! The three of us got our tix and grubbed some Mexican food (massive burritos on Haight, across/up the street from F-8), then went to Mt. View to kick it at Todd's for a while. We looked at photos of Burning Man and the Tahoe trip, and now I'm even MORE sorry I missed both! Not again... We met inside at Chrysalis. Right when I got upstairs, I knew this was going to be a good one. The place was decked out just the way I like it: dark, lots of glowing neon art, animation screens, incense in the chill area, and friendly smiles everywhere :D By the time I found the dance and chill areas and set up camp with Marty and Todd, I'd already greeted three friends! I sat with leftjab and some people for a while, then started exploring. The dance floor was alive the whole night, but some of the music was too fast for me to dance to. I danced a while, then got too hot (the drawback to the location: no fresh air!) and spent almost the entire night in the chill area. Every few minutes, I saw a friend; when I wasn't greeting friends, I was making new ones! The vibe was incredible, and added so much to my happy state that for the longest time, all I could to was sit, or lie back, and smile from ear to ear. Friends would spot me and come over to talk, too, which pleased me no end! I became the proud owner of the coveted SFR laminate, and feel honored to be among the rest of the laminate-wearers :) I was more elated and blissful than I've been in a long, long time. The big butterfly on the wall was hypnotizing when the light would flash, the colors flashing brighter with each flash of the light. I was completely spellbound, and happily still able to communicate, so I got to talk more than usual (but still not enough; I mean to talk with all of you more in the future ;)). The fruit shakes were delicious and refreshing, and the muffins were great. There were moments when I felt that I should be sharing my good time with others, but there were so many distractions that I feel I didn't pay enough attention to any one person in particular. Just the same, I was overjoyed to be sharing such a wonderful thing with so many other people. I finally mustered enough energy (which the heat was sapping all night) to dance when I suspected the last tune was spinning, so I got in the last of the set, and instead of exhausting me, it charged me a bit, but nothing topped Jimi Hendrix' "Little Wing"! It was heavenly, and was the perfect ending as the morning light was exposed. I had the honor of driving Marty back to Todd's place, where we crashed, and I gave someone a jump-start before grabbing my shut-eye. Todd arrived just after I awoke and made ready to leave, and went right to bed, so I bade Marty farewell and drove home. It's so nice to drive in the morning, when there's no traffic to speak of, with all the wonderful feelings still coursing through my body and mind. To everyone I saw at the party, I'm glad we were able to share such an outstanding party! To Gateway Systems, THANK YOU so much for giving this to us; you guys rule!! And to everyone who was there, whether I know you or not: I LOVE YOU ALL!!! :):):) See youse next time, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 10:47:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA16208; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:47:27 -0800 Received: from ftdetrck-doimsun1.army.mil by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA16203; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:47:23 -0800 From: ERIK_DUNKELBERGER@wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil Received: from wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil (WRSMTP-CCMAIL.ARMY.MIL [160.151.240.241]) by ftdetrck-doimsun1.army.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA19090; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:35:53 -0500 Received: from ccMail by wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil (SMTPLINK V2.11) id AA828393612; Mon, 01 Apr 96 12:47:36 PST Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 12:47:36 PST Message-Id: <9603018283.AA828393612@wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil> To: Carin_Cain@wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil, mezz.mezzrow@wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil, aharrer@aixterm1.urz.uni-heidelberg.de, innocemc@acq.osd.mil, karelis@bucknell.edu, mps@thehighschool.org, tiffani@csd.uwm.edu, udovic@uclink2.berkeley.edu, vngauy@umabnet.ab.umd.edu, wehough@wam.umd.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: HUGS! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >> > Everyone needs a hug, pass it on! >> > >> > >> > ___ ____ ___ >> > ____( \ .-' `-. / )____ >> > (____ \_____ / (O O) \ _____/ ____) >> > (____ `-----( ) )-----' ____) >> > (____ _____________\ .____. /_____________ ____) >> > (______/ `-.____.-' \______) >> > >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *hug* >> > *hug* *hug* *hug* *hug* *hug* >> > *Hug**Hug**Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug**Hug**Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug**Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 10:47:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA16274; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:47:50 -0800 Received: from ftdetrck-doimsun1.army.mil by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA16267; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:47:46 -0800 From: ERIK_DUNKELBERGER@wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil Received: from wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil (WRSMTP-CCMAIL.ARMY.MIL [160.151.240.241]) by ftdetrck-doimsun1.army.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA19074; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:31:57 -0500 Received: from ccMail by wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil (SMTPLINK V2.11) id AA828393301; Mon, 01 Apr 96 12:46:26 PST Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 12:46:26 PST Message-Id: <9603018283.AA828393301@wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil> To: Carin_Cain@wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil, mezz.mezzrow@wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil, aharrer@aixterm1.urz.uni-heidelberg.de, innocemc@acq.osd.mil, karelis@bucknell.edu, mps@thehighschool.org, tiffani@csd.uwm.edu, udovic@uclink2.berkeley.edu, vngauy@umabnet.ab.umd.edu, wehough@wam.umd.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Forwarded mail.... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >> > Everyone needs a hug, pass it on! >> > >> > >> > ___ ____ ___ >> > ____( \ .-' `-. / )____ >> > (____ \_____ / (O O) \ _____/ ____) >> > (____ `-----( ) )-----' ____) >> > (____ _____________\ .____. /_____________ ____) >> > (______/ `-.____.-' \______) >> > >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *hug* >> > *hug* *hug* *hug* *hug* *hug* >> > *Hug**Hug**Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug**Hug**Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug**Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 11:00:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA17361; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:00:04 -0800 Received: from cti02.citenet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA17303; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:59:52 -0800 Received: from [206.123.34.71] (g34-71.citenet.net) by cti02.citenet.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22086; Mon, 1 Apr 96 13:59:27 EST Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:07:29 -0500 To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) From: ecto@citenet.net (rock n' roll sex machine) Subject: Re: Underground Responsibility Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: At 4:52 PM 3/31/96, Nancy wrote: >Last night I again brought a newbie into the underground. I wanted to >share the experience with my best friend from high school (with whom I had >made many drug-induced and spiritual explorations, at the time). She and I >have had limited contact for the past five years, but my overflowing heart >unthinkingly wished to show EVERYONE the beauty of this scene, and I >invited her without, as I found, _really_ knowing her anymore. That's too bad, i too have had similar experiences with 'old friends' ("aren't you a little old to be going to those rave things?" or "are those things still going on? i thought that was just a fad", etc). I often see relationships with an other person as being like two different sine waves, each going at different frequencies: sometimes you're in phase with them but, as time goes on you may go out of phase. Such is the way things change i guess. I suppose you just have to 'stick to your sound' and hope you can find someone else to groove along side of you :) >I had explained what I find in the underground - the community, the sacred >ritual, the group vibe which to me proves spirituality, the energy link >between us all, one consciousness, the full acceptance. She told me I >sounded like a Hare Krishna (I have noticed that my non-rave friends are >distinctly uncomfortable with that kind of talk. I realize now that they >cannot understand because they haven't experienced it, and so they dismiss >this "mumbo jumbo" as something negative, either naivete on my part (one >non-raver friend warned me against being "hurt" by the scene), or bizarre >cultish group behavior. :( . Well i work hard in emphasizing for myself the respect for other's views, this is often helped when you understand that the position they speak from is a subjectivity that is complex with subtleties that you may not understand, for them they may feel that they're views are 'right' because they only know their own selves and sometimes things that us "positive people" may see as being negative is, to them, being 'realistic.' I suppose i've been fortuante enough to have had a wide variety of feelings/thoughts/opinions about things in my life, so i can empathize with your friend possibly. About two years ago i was a cynical depressive weenie, yet at the time i thought that my world views were 'realistic.' Negativity had been so embedded in my consciousness from experiences in childhood and bein' a teenager and yadda yadda yadda that, to be honest, i had forgotten what it was like to be happy. All things are relative (as Einstein, not to mention a few buddhists would tell ya) so, for me, my 'happiness' at that time would have been what i'd call 'slightly depressed' now (as opposed to 'totally whoa depressed' which would have been on the other end of the spectrum). I had been told that i was like this by friends at the time and, naturally, i felt somewhat angry about it, and denied it. My feelings were very real, and were just a 'natural' reaction to my life experiences; i was justified in seeing things as being crappy, because (in my mind) they were. Then something totally magical happened. Sorry for using such a cliche (my creative writing prof would wince if he saw that ;) but that's the only way i can describe it. Something changed within me, a few factors somehow made me remember the kind of peace and happiness that a lot of us feel as children, yet after years and years of negative experiences, schooling and all that are buried. With these new feelings inside me, i could see what my usual mental attitude was _relative_ to these feelings. And that new (well, remembered) feeling of happiness and positivity was like a fulcrum on a see-saw; i had something to bounce off of to push me up a bit higher. Before, my emotional state was pretty much like a big board lying on the ground ;P :) I realized the simple fact that our views on the world can change, and just the simple knowledge that there are heights of beauty that we CAN attain but first we must allow ourselves to believe that they're "there" to be attained. To use another analogy, it's easier to climb up to a plateau on a mountain if you know that it's there. And when you get there after all that struggle, you'll probably realize that you can still go higher :) I think i turned out ok. Having friends around who love you helps a lot, and so your friends sound like thier quite lucky to have you there, but after everything if one is to start feeling love for anything one first has to start loving themselves. Don't get frustrated with your friends, know that everyone can change (and, actually, we don't have much choice in the matter! :) and that even people that were like me can end up WAY different almost overnight. Relatedly, i think that a lot of my negativity was caused by having a lot of bad experiences; yet still having a little spark of light inside me telling me that the world CAN be better and i was frustrated at not being able to change other people. In the end, i realized that the only thing you have much control over changing is yourself, your views, behaviours and actions and the external manifestations of this light. So, once i started changing myself from within, making that spark of light grow, and not trying to change other people, i found myself happier and that light attracted others who were looking for the same thing: happiness, peace, positivity. In a way, i _did_ change the world, because so much of what we call 'reality' is simply one's mental perception of it. I would notice the beauty of a flower on the street, rather than the garbage that clogged up the gutter beside it. Just remember, light attracts light :) >It makes me sad because it is not necessary, it is her choice >to live life that way. :) Yeah, well _you_ know that and _i_ know that but (if she's at all like i was) she probably thinks that she doesn't have a choice and that 'this is just the way things are'. >I let her go because I no longer wish to pollute my >consciousness with those sorts of influences. I need to surround myself >with people who are on the same wavelength, about opening up to greater and >greater love and generating something special for _all_ of us (not just >ravers!). Oh definitely, but i also find it _just_ as useful for spiritual growth to be put in situations where others are at odds with your world view; they act as foils for your beliefs, complexifying them and making them stronger AND it can still be quite a boost for you because you see exactly how positive you are. Every now and then i go back to this old punk/industrial club that i used to hang out at and i see 'where i was' and feel 'where i am' and i'm pretty amazed with the whole situation that i've gotten myself into :) Yay for raves! :) How's this for a test of faith-->a couple of weeks ago i went to a massive in montreal (where i'm temporarily located) which (supposedly) was funded by bikers who also controlled the flow of ummmm 'stuff' within the party. Word has it that a few 'independants' were roughed up as they were encroaching upon a captive market. The sound system was like a AM radio on a cheap ghetto blaster on the bottom of a pool, the smile-0-meter was getting a few blips but not much. I did the old "smile at someone only to have a hard stare returned to me and have me keep smiling back" thing all night. I can only feel sorry for people like that but, in the end there's not much i can do for 'em. They can't bring ME down though, because i'm ME and i'm a positive person! I ended up having a pretty good night, all things considered. I suppose i could have easily found things to complain about but that's not as much fun (or sometimes, a challange) as remembering how lucky i am just to be healthy and alive and shakin my booty; even if it was to really boring mellow house coming out of a bad sound system (apologies to house-heads out there, just my personal taste). Well, this turned out to be a little longer than expected but i just wanted to pass this along. Be positive and also never let anyone tell ya that drugs have addled your mind, and that positivity is just a chemical reaction. It's only a window to radiate out the light that's already within all of us! Have a great day! your positive april fool, brad =====================/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\================== \|/ ectographics: print and online design --O-- ecto@citenet.net >> ecto@magnet.ca >> /|\ http://www.magnet.ca/~ecto /---\ /-----\"second star on the right, straight on til morning" - peter pan /_______\-========\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/================= From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 11:00:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA17440; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:00:28 -0800 Received: from worm.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA17430; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:00:25 -0800 Received: (from moonpup@localhost) by worm.hooked.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA28274; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:00:25 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:00:25 -0800 From: Milton Cecil Message-Id: <199604011900.LAA28274@worm.hooked.net> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Forwarded mail.... (fwd) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: --------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 12:46:26 PST From: ERIK_DUNKELBERGER@WRSMTP-CCMAIL.ARMY.MIL To: Carin_Cain@WRSMTP-CCMAIL.ARMY.MIL, mezz.mezzrow@WRSMTP-CCMAIL.ARMY.MIL, Subject: Re: Forwarded mail.... >> > Everyone needs a hug, pass it on! >> > >> > >> > ___ ____ ___ >> > ____( \ .-' `-. / )____ >> > (____ \_____ / (O O) \ _____/ ____) >> > (____ `-----( ) )-----' ____) >> > (____ _____________\ .____. /_____________ ____) >> > (______/ `-.____.-' \______) >> > >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *hug* >> > *hug* *hug* *hug* *hug* *hug* >> > *Hug**Hug**Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug**Hug**Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug**Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> > *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* >> *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* *Hug* From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 11:09:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA18332; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:09:11 -0800 Received: from worm.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA18302; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:09:04 -0800 Received: (from moonpup@localhost) by worm.hooked.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA28640; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:09:05 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:09:05 -0800 From: Milton Cecil Message-Id: <199604011909.LAA28640@worm.hooked.net> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: (BSP?) Tahoe tapes !! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: For those interested in the Lake Tahoe tapes.......... I need to know how many people still need the 4 tape set? I have 2 sets ready to go...........e-mail me if you need one.........we'll arrange a meeting.......they are 4- 90 min tapes at $5.00 each for a total of $20.00 per set..... .............moonpup From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 11:15:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA18899; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:15:33 -0800 Received: from ucscb.UCSC.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA18870; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:15:27 -0800 Received: by ucscb.UCSC.EDU (5.65/1.34) id AA13446; Mon, 1 Apr 96 11:11:59 -0800 From: swoosh@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (John Elias Darrow) Message-Id: <9604011911.AA13446@ucscb.UCSC.EDU> Subject: Re: conquering To: erase99@sirius.com (Static 99) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:11:50 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960401090212.006d02c0@moon.sirius.com> from "Static 99" at Apr 1, 96 01:02:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2324 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > > John- " These bad vibes that we are trying to keep out of the party will > never go away, until we accept them and conquer them. This doesn't mean > forcing them to see our enlightened way, but allowing ourselves to see > theirs. When we can, we begin to notice that our ways are actually very > similar, if not the same, and thats when we can move together into the future." > I have to disagree with you here. I don't believe that we, or anyone for > that matter, should be trying to 'conquer' anything. That would be a > contradiction to the concept of love and respect. It's this kind of > my-way-is-best attitude that colonists who forced their religions on > indigenous peoples had. Do you really want to take that position? If the > rave spirit is really the best way, then people will naturally gravitate > that way, given the oppurtunity to think clearly. Well, it's a problem of semantics I guess. But I feel that those negative vibes arise because of our own judgements, and the only way they ever change is by our own choosing not to see people in that light... So when I say conquering, I mean recognizing that we are judging people, ranking them lower or higher than ourselves, and then finding a way out of that state of mind. It's an entirely personal battle, and has nothing to do with forcing change on anyone other than ourselves. It's the same thing as learning to love, or just respect everyone else. Which on some nights, can be quite a struggle. I don't think that any way is truly best... but I do think that if you want to move in any direction, you have to let everyone else move in their own directions. > Also, how can someone with a narrow mind and someone with an open mind have > the same ways? Doesn't the person with the narrow mind rely on their > prejudices to see the world while the person with an open mind does not? They have the same ways because the difference between an open mind and a narrow mind is just a judgement on behalf of the 'open minded' side. If you're sitting there with someone who you think is narrow minded, chances are it's just you who haven't bothered to pay close enough attention to who that other person is. If you did, you might find that you are both moving in the same direction, albeit along slightly different paths. respectfully, -john. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 11:53:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA22752; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:53:04 -0800 Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA22736; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:53:00 -0800 Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net (tsheets@xanadu.cyborganic.net [206.79.136.20]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA00725 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:58:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id LAA02606 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:52:29 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199604011952.LAA02606@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Disrespecting Locations. To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:52:28 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: It was unfortunate to see that the nice, comfortable, clean dance studio location used for Chrysalis was tagged and damaged by disrespectful people. The bathrooms were tagged, a mirror was scribed, and a window (!?) was broken. As a result: 1. Gateway will have to pay for damages, taking money, energy and incentive away from doing future parties. 2. That particulary cool location will be more difficult to get for future parties. I know most people from sfraves would not disrespect a location like this. But there is obviously kids out there who do not know that damaging locations is the worst thing you can do for the scene... becuase the hardest part of throwing parties is finding decent locations. -troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 12:21:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA25680; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:21:35 -0800 Received: from ns.mauswerks.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA25672; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:21:31 -0800 Received: from [17.127.19.21] ([17.127.19.21]) by ns.mauswerks.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA03906; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:20:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199604012020.MAA03906@ns.mauswerks.com> Subject: Re: Hey, Lurkers! (yeah, you!) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 96 12:20:34 -0800 From: Amy Felix To: "Nancy" , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Nancy & everyone- I used to post things almost every day, then I stopped because 1) I felt as though I was grating on people's nerves and 2) I was spending far too many hours of my day writing e-mail. I dropped off the list; recently I have dropped back in to see what is up. Many of my thoughts are of a cynical and self-probing nature. I am pretty critical of everything, including myself. My reflections on the rave scene are usually mixed with good & bad... I also have somewhat of an attitude which I don't want to share with everyone, so there. :-P That is why I am lurking right now, be thankful. I was at Chrysalis with Wayne and his posse of folks; I was the rather tall woman with short blonde hair who was passing around a bottle of lavender oil & Skittles. -Amy >So, I would like to know who is out there in the audience! I was wondering >if you could do us all the favor of a quick post saying your name and hi, >just so we know who is out there, listening and thinking. I love you all! >- Nancy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 12:29:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA26382; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:29:30 -0800 Received: from elaine39.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA26376; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:29:27 -0800 Received: (from starchld@localhost) by elaine39.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA24019 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:29:26 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Kodama Message-Id: <199604012029.MAA24019@elaine39.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Re: Hey, Lurkers! (yeah, you!) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:29:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Nancy" at Mar 31, 96 05:17:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > So, I would like to know who is out there in the audience! I was wondering > if you could do us all the favor of a quick post saying your name and hi, > just so we know who is out there, listening and thinking. I love you all! all right then - i've been on sfraves since last fall, but haven't posted much - i've been buried in my classes for the past couple of months, since this is my first time back in college for three years - quite a change in environment! anyway, my name's matt - i'm about 5'6", black hair, and a goatee (for shame) still in the process of growing out. soon, i won't look like i'm sixteen anymore! i'm planning on being out and about a lot more this spring, so if you see me please say hi. met a few of you at chrysalis, but not enough! hi to gonzo (the burger king) if christian (with a british accent and a string of pearls) is out there, please mail back - my friend mark thinks he might have gone to high school with you - small world, isn't it. matt -- |=======================================================================| | | | i have the world's largest collection of seashells. i keep it on all | | the beaches of the world ... perhaps you've seen it. | | | | you know how it is when you're reading a book and falling asleep, | | you're reading, reading ... and all of a sudden you notice your eyes | | are closed? i'm like that all the time. | | | | i put tape on the mirrors in my house so i don't accidentally walk | | through into another dimension. | | | | - steven wright | | | |=======================================================================| -starchld@leland.stanford.edu--the mothership can be reached at 493-4099- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 12:32:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA26713; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:32:00 -0800 Received: from elaine39.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA26659; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:31:52 -0800 Received: (from starchld@localhost) by elaine39.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA24039 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:31:49 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Kodama Message-Id: <199604012031.MAA24039@elaine39.Stanford.EDU> Subject: paging rhea To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:31:49 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: hi rhea! i hope you're still out there - if you are, drop me a line? i have an odd story and a couple of tapes for you ... matt. -- |=======================================================================| | | | i have the world's largest collection of seashells. i keep it on all | | the beaches of the world ... perhaps you've seen it. | | | | you know how it is when you're reading a book and falling asleep, | | you're reading, reading ... and all of a sudden you notice your eyes | | are closed? i'm like that all the time. | | | | i put tape on the mirrors in my house so i don't accidentally walk | | through into another dimension. | | | | - steven wright | | | |=======================================================================| -starchld@leland.stanford.edu--the mothership can be reached at 493-4099- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 12:47:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA28242; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:47:27 -0800 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA28235; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:47:23 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA13461; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:47:17 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA16605; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:43:34 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:43:34 -0800 Message-Id: <199604012043.MAA16605@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: Underground Responsibility Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >I let her go with that, both >physically and mentally. I don't recall her being this way when we were >very close friends. You might want to print out some of the responses you've gotten to this message and send them to her. Ask her how "fake" these all seem to her. And if she still feels they're fake, ask her then to point to something real... I disagree with some of the posts. You were NOT acting superior. Raving is just another experience. It's like telling someone they have just *got* to try Italian food. You're not saying Italian is better than anything else, but it sure hits the spot, and it's another thing to experience, to hopefully enjoy, and to enrich one's life. If that person decides at that point that Italian is now their favorite food, well good for them and kudos to you for introducing them to it! If not, at least they (hopefully) tried it with an open mind. Wise saying for the day: People are about as happy as they make up their minds to be. I've always been, and always will be, a little kid. I'm a professional at work, and a responsible adult at all times, but I love to play and be as friendly as I want to be without fear of rejection, and raving gives me that. Within the bounds of "PLUR", if you choose to use that definition, I can be the wonderful, laughing, joyous kid inside of me along with all the other "kids". I, at the time straight-laced, slightly cynical, and anti-drug, took to raves like a fish to water, and I've been swimmin' my little heart out ever since... Much love, dear Nancy, Todd From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 12:48:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA28350; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:48:23 -0800 Received: from mail1.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA28335; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:48:20 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA22027 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:46:25 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA16263 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:42:56 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:42:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199604012042.MAA16263@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: The Long Weekend: A (Semi) Long Review X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Wow. I'm toasted (another slang word?). Yup, definitely a dark toasting, but not quite burnt... NIKITA: Not bad. Saw some sfravers -- Nancy (in the men's room!), Leslie (bein' a Mac Mamma next to the speakers), and other good ravin' friends. Had a pretty good time all in all. Did some dancing, but to be honest, I guess I had expected better from someone with the reputation that Keoki has. He had his moments, and I *moved* when he did, but all in all it wasn't quite the earth-shattering dance-a-thon I was expecting. And just before I left -- we pooped out early (3am?) -- there was the no-no of all no-no's -- the music got *ripped*. Something hit the decks hard enough to REALLY send the needle flying. Ouch! There was this horrendous SCRATCH, and then nothing. For a while. And then music again. Hm. The mac daddy room upstairs was kinda cool to hang out in. Lotion and slow groovin'. Chatted with Tom & Stacey. Met Jennifer and ... her boyfriend (dang, I'm bad with names)... So, due to the cool people, I had a really good time, but Doc Martin put on the best Nikita...heck, the best club event... that I've been to since the MLK Spundae. Keoki just didn't quite hit that mark. ORGANIC AT GG BANDSHELL: Arrived late. Spent THREE HOURS hanging out on Haight waiting for Chrysalis tix to show up. Wandered around during that time, found a drum circle at the east end of GG, and it was *jammin'*! Danced a bit, shared a lot of smiles. Finally gave up on the tix and went to the party. Saw Jennifer again -- she's so funny! Everyone was having a darn good time, but I was mainly there to pick up Marty. She and I and Eric took off, picked up our tix, and headed for...CHRYSALIS! Funny story: Met up with Marcello at the GG party and he told me this one. He was dancing, flirting w/the ladies, and selling DJ tapes. Someone came up to him and asked, "Do you have any Keoki tapes?" Marcello replies the he doesn't carry Keoki because Keoki is on a perpetual ego-trip, or something to that effect. The guy gets kind of a weird look on his face and sits there for a second, then says, "I'm Keoki." WHOOPS! CHRYSALIS: DAMN! I loved this rave! The chill room was *perfect*. I like *interesting* visuals in an ambient space, ok lighting, and good tunes. This hit the mark! They had cheap water 8) fruit 8) and tasty juice 8)8)... The dance space had good lighting, a laser (essential IMHO), and *really* good music. I've never danced to trance until this rave, and I found that I could not only keep up, I got FFFFFFFUNKY! I'm talkin' funkier-than-a-fat-man's-feet, FUNKY. I got tribal, all body, stompin... The housier stuff later was excellent! Two problems with this rave. (1) The heat was slightly oppressive, but not too bad. Better ventilation would have been nice, but the fans helped. (2) For a while there, the fuses kept tripping. Actually I found this amusing, that we were sucking so much power that the house couldn't handle it. At some point the problem was resolved. I MET SO MANY PEOPLE!!!! And folx, I have arrived: I now have a laminate. ooooooooo! Hey, don't touch, just look... Saw Nancy (cute stickers), Vince (the "dreaded" one), Wayne (tall and funny), Shawna (BIG hug), Black Adder (political discourses), Leftjab (kaleidascopes), Leslie (big grins), Chris (funny stories), Rikki (surely a Star) -- hell, it'll take me days to remember them all. And Alex! And Jennifer with her sunburnt nose! Marty, Eric, and my GF Michelle all agreed that it was quite likely the BEST party we've EVER been to! If you didn't go, you MISSED. Gateway Systems rules...huhuhuhuh... Sunday: Immediately after Chrysalis, went to the deli that Michelle works at. Volunteered to help get a catering order for 200 people put together. Worked like mad from 5:30 until 9am. Ouch. Staggered home, slept 'til 5pm. Nuff said. Hope yours was as good as mine! See you all at SUNSET!!! S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 12:55:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA29037; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:55:02 -0800 Received: from osceola.gate.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA28294; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:47:56 -0800 Received: from hopi.gate.net (hardware@hopi.gate.net [199.227.0.13]) by osceola.gate.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA19106; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:33:24 -0500 Received: (from hardware@localhost) by hopi.gate.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA46568; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:33:16 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:33:16 -0500 (EST) From: DJ Hardware To: fl-raves@cat.net cc: Ali Naderzad , tis@nwu.edu, bassex@aol.com, boston-raves@ccs.neeu.edu, ovt@mcs.net, crose@fortlewis.edu, cjbst35+@pitt.edu, fde5gip@hibbs.vcu.edu, DCRAVES@american.edu, glazerf@acad1.stvincent.edu, earache@.winternet.com, Bekkula@aol.com, sbrown@netexpress.net, fl-raves@cat.net, garyblitz@clublife.com, gabber@stack.urc.tue.nl, garyc@vaxa.pe.com, delaja00@usfca.edu, jwelch@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu, johnsin@cyborganic.com, joy@zynet.com, KMezera@aol.com, koolaid@clublife.com, Maxximum@msn.com, mo@nicar.org, mtn-raves@hyperreal.com, ne-raves@world.std.com, nw-raves@hyperreal.com, nyc-raves@hyperreal.com, pb-cle-raves@hyperreal.com, drfree@drfreeclouds.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com, st2af@jetson.uh.edu, sho@genmagic.com, socal-raves@ucsd.edu, SERAVES@american.edu, Harddemon@aol.com, djt1000@aol.com, txraves@io.com, thee-o@pacificnet.net, trevor88@lex.infi.net Subject: Re: fl-raves: Re: TXRAVES: Best DJ survey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Abiel wrote: > > > On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Ali Naderzad wrote: > > > Moonshine music is looking for the best american DJ to press their next > > mixed CD.. send me emails as to whom you think should be featured!!.. > > Best DJ??????? What kinda Superbowl shit is this? Its bad enough that we > have vain sellout DJs like Keoki to label themselves a Super-DJ and bring > a rock star image to a supposed anti-establishment scene. Now this, a > best DJ competition. Lets go out and find the best grain of sand or lets > go out and look for the best blade of grass. > > Or better yet, lets come up with the BEST MARKETING SCHEME we can use to > sell the public a CD that, like it or not, represents the best DJ in the > country. > > Best DJ, we dont need no steenkin' best DJ. > > -Abiel > Perfectly Put!!!! AMEN!!! DJ HARDWARE From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 12:56:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA29167; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:56:05 -0800 Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA29158; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:56:02 -0800 Received: from (peterbf@sfo-ca13-09.ix.netcom.com [205.184.16.41]) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA28372 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:00:05 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:00:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199604012100.NAA28372@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> From: peterbf@ix.netcom.com (peter fogel) Subject: spundae To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Well after the last wicked at dv8 I went to, I thought I wouldn't go back to that location, thinking it was too hot and smokey for me. With a strong craving to dance from missing the weekend parties due to work, angela and I thought we'd give spundae a try at dv8. When we got there Jeno was mixing some good stuff, but having just gotten off work, I wasn't all that into it. At one point I didn't know if I'd be able to stay very long as it seemed that angela and I were the only ones on the dance floor not smoking. But we found a good spot up front with no smokers and some high energy dancers. By the time Markie came on I was finally starting to trance out. By 2am alot of the alcohol/smokers were leaving. The vibe was growing stronger as the night went on. After Markie's set which really had me trancing, Emma came on with some real funky stuff that got the house rockin. It turned out, after a slow start, we had a great time! That drummer dude from the sunset party was there. Fortunately he was set up in the back, so we didn't notice him all that much. I'd definitely recommend this on a sunday night, especially with a dj line up like last night. But if you get bothered by smokers, I'd come after 2am. :) peter From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 13:15:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA01443; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:15:39 -0800 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA01436; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:15:36 -0800 Received: from [153.36.85.104] (Cust40.Max6.Santa-Clara.CA.MS.UU.NET [153.36.85.104]) by mh1.well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA02239; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:14:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199604012114.NAA02239@mh1.well.com> X-Sender: crunch@mail.well.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:16:05 +1000 To: exodus@earthlink.net (Austin) From: crunch@well.com (John Draper) Subject: Re: Respect for Acme! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >Everyone was >talking about "boycotting the Acme", spreading the "word" about the owner, >and telling promoters to not book any more parties at the Acme. I can see why... While at Harmony, they had NO FANS, it got steiffling hot, almost to the point where I blanked out... I finally work my way to the door, and asked the owner if I could stand outside until I recover, and he said "No, once you leave you cannot get back there... is that a problem? if so, then you can leave right now", He when pulled on my arm to get me out, I yanked it away and said "can I at least get my jacket?" I went back in with the intention of keeping away from that dickhead. He's the shorter dude with blond hair (looks like he might have had it dyed). Eentually I HAD to get some cool air, so Instead I sat on the stairs next to the door "Making it more difficult for people to use the stairs, but I HAD to get some air". Since then I made up my mind to NEVER EVER go into that "Death trap" again, and I urge all of you to please boycott the Acme. I also heard yesterday that the fire marshell shut it down, so "Stomp" got moved to somewhere else. I went to Crysylis, but the 24th st dance studio at least had some cool places to go to, but of course it was steiffling hot. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 13:30:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA02994; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:30:50 -0800 Received: from mail1.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA02988; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:30:47 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA25683 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:30:02 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA12764 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:26:33 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:26:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199604012126.NAA12764@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: (BSP?) Tahoe tapes !! X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >For those interested in the Lake Tahoe tapes.......... > > I need to know how many people still need the 4 tape set? I have 2 sets >ready to go...........e-mail me if you need one.........we'll arrange a >meeting.......they are 4- 90 min tapes at $5.00 each for a total of $20.00 >per set..... HEY FOLX! I *highly* recommend these tapes! They are all the way ON! For the quality music on these tapes you may never see a deal like this ever again! Better get them now before this stellar talent leaves for the UK! The Tahoe tape set includes an amazing live performance and several *really* good DJs along with Moonpup himself. A must have! S PS. Moonpup: I've been borrowing Michelle's set to listen to, but I want to get a set for myself as well. Could you bring a set to the Easter Sunset? It would be *much* appreciated. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 13:32:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA03196; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:32:44 -0800 Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA03186; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:32:41 -0800 Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id NAA03892 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:33:34 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199604012133.NAA03892@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Lucky Charms??? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 13:33:34 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Did anyone go (or try to go) to Lucky Charms? I heard they had some problems with the map point... like a riot or something? Can anyone who was there tell the list what happened? I sort of think "it serves them right" for distributing a flier with blatant drug references so widely... I bet they put them in shopping malls. Of course this sort of promotion will attract a bad vibe. -troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 14:01:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA06072; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:01:23 -0800 Received: from elaine35.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA06063; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:01:19 -0800 Received: from localhost (senator@localhost) by elaine35.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17197; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:01:13 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine35.Stanford.EDU: senator owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:01:13 -0800 (PST) From: Cassandra Ann Thomas X-Sender: senator@elaine35.Stanford.EDU To: Kristofer Ananda Carrison cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: intro In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Dear Krishna: I am currently working on a couple of dance projects in San Francisco and may be able to help you find some footage. As you can see I am also at Stanford and I think I might have met you with angie inge. Also in general I would be curious to hear about your project as I think we may have similiar work/play interests. Cassandra Thomas On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Kristofer Ananda Carrison wrote: > Hi, my name is Krishna. I've been lurking for about three weeks, but I've > been using sfraves weekly calender since last july. Around may last year > I began to rave, although I went to a really fun new years party > in the city that was seed for my future. I had a tight group of > friends who I went out with sometimes four times a week, after-parties and > all. You may have met some of them; Oliver, Mark(green hair), Grady, > Jason, all totally xstatic Stanford students breaking away from years of > indoctrination and bullshit. That summer was monumental for all of us. > It was the first time we had ever felt communal love, > and we we're swept up in the intensity of it. > > Well, school rolled around all too soon, and we all freaked out in our own ways > I retreated to Mendocino and got really sick for three months. My friends > thought that I bailed out on the friendship, and maybe I did, but I needed for > my own sanity to get healthy. I had to catch up on numerous missed nights of > sleep. I was pretty damaged. School was not even an option. > > Anyway, I'm feeling really healthy now, and have learned alot about > myself. I realize it's not required to go to evey after-party that > exists. Although, I would probabally be going out more frequently now if > I had a car. > > I had a phenominal time at the sfraves cabin trip. Moonpup, you're a gas. > Steveo, thanks for totally out doing yourself. > > Oh, let me see, I'm 5'8, I have a blue spiral snake wrapped around my > right forearm. I have a long strip of bleached hair sprouting > out of the top of my head. Melissa tells me, "You have a > cute little pink rosebud" but I'm not so sure. I can never stop > dancing. I love to dance almost more than anything. > That's enough I guess. Except that I'm currently working on a house > dancing video for a school project. Does anyone have any crazy > dancing video footage they'd let me borrow? It would never go public. > It's just for myself. > > Hope to party with you all soon. Don't hesitate to introduce yourselves. > Perky Boobs Flying Everywhere > Krishna. > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 14:02:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA06244; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:02:29 -0800 Received: from dub-img-7.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA06237; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:02:24 -0800 Received: by dub-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA26216; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:01:54 -0500 Date: 01 Apr 96 17:00:03 EST From: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" Subject: Re: Chrysalis and Disrespecting locations Message-ID: <960401220002_71165.755_GHL44-3@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: It was really awful to see the location not being cared for Saturday night -- I take dance classes there, and really liked being in that space for a party. I wonder if it would be helpful if the organizers at all parties post some colorful obvious signs in the bathrooms and hallways to remind those people who may not be thinking of the consequences of their actions. For instance, a big colorful sign on the bathroom mirror might have discouraged the young girls who thought it was so funny to cover the mirror with soap... I think they just weren't thinking. Thank you Chrysalis for having so many thoughtful things: 1. having ashtrays around, and for being so on top of cleaning up throughout the night. 2. such a beautiful chill space, with such great light show 3. Having as many fans as possible, even though those rooms REALLY are hot no matter what 4. Sharing such a wonderful breakfast - that's really my favorite moment, when the juice and muffins go on the table, and people start moving toward it, and soon we're all eating together like a family in the morning ... I really love that. We all need to be aware that parties belong to us all, and we should maybe be more self-"policing" (is there a better word?) to care for our space. Hugs Leslie :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 14:04:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA06420; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:04:17 -0800 Received: from netcom2.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA06412; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:04:13 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom2.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id OAA25207; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:04:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199604012204.OAA25207@netcom2.netcom.com> To: "San FranDisco Ravers List" Cc: idm@hyperreal.com, nm-list@xmission.com, bpm@dhp.com Subject: BSP -- The Heather Woodbury Report (one-woman performance novel) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 14:04:10 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: The Heather Woodbury Report or what ever A Living, One-Woman Performance Novel in 8 Episodes One Woman 100 Characters... NYC's Cult Hit! Jazz, Rave, and ... Brussel Sprouts Catch it one episode per week at: Josie's Cabaret 3583 16th St. (at Market) San Francisco Reservations: (415) 861-7933 Times: Every Friday at 10PM.... #1: "Salvation", April 5. #2 "Homemaking", April 12. #3 "Seeing Things", April 19. #4 "Quakes", April 26. #5-8 TBA... -------------------- "Spectacular Characters" Sarah Schulman, New York Press. "Nothing short of epic" Marc Raphael, New York Casting. "Characters as fascinating & memorable as any created by Dickens" Chip Defaa, New York Post. "Engrossing!! A narrative feat!" Harold Goldberg, The Village Voice. "See it" Margo Jefferson, New Yrk Times Radio WQXR. "Wildly diverse, captivating characters" Tom Murrin, Paper Magazine. "Succeeds brilliantly -- Dickens with a dash of Armistead Maupin" Michael Yawney, Off-Off Broadway Review. "Absorbing ... Seamless... Amazing" Cynthia True, Time Out NY. -------------------- PS: Some of the inspiration in this one-person-many-characters-performance was inspired by Heather's positive experiences at the SF Raves "Connection" rave at Bonnie Dune Beach in Santa Cruz (damn, when was that 92? 93?). Heather came with a friend who writes for Spin Magazine and he ended up writing a 1-pager on SF's rave scene that predominantly mentioned an underground rave on some unnamed california beach -- an early, accurate, and positive accounting of the rave scene in the press... There's mention of this in the early SFR archives. NPM... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 14:52:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA12189; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:52:38 -0800 Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA12181; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:52:35 -0800 Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (ausman@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA00382; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:52:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199604012252.OAA00382@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> To: Troy Sheets Subject: making assumptions In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Apr 1996 11:52:28 PST." <199604011952.LAA02606@xanadu.cyborganic.net> cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 14:52:08 -0800 From: James Ausman Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >I know most people from sfraves would not disrespect a location like this. >But there is obviously kids out there who do not know that damaging locations ^^^^ Woah there. I don't think you should make any assumptions about the age of the people doing this. I am 31 and have been spotted tagging advertising and the like as recently as last week. But I would of course never do something like this at a rave. One of the very special thing about raves to me is the great diversity of ages everywhere. I have rave friends 17 to 40 and I am sure there are people older and younger than that around. But maybe you meant "kid" in maturity, not chronological age. Btw, great party, great location. I sure hope we can use it again. Hugs, Jim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 15:02:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA13432; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:02:39 -0800 Received: from halon.sybase.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA13425; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:02:36 -0800 Received: from smtp1.sybase.com (sybgate) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA13809; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:02:45 -0800 Received: from zoo.sybase.com by smtp1.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.5-030896) id AA04853; Mon, 1 Apr 96 15:02:08 PST Received: by zoo.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-SVR4/SybEC3.5) id AA16966; Mon, 1 Apr 96 15:02:07 PST Date: Mon, 1 Apr 96 15:02:07 PST From: mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim) Message-Id: <9604012302.AA16966@zoo.sybase.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: rare groove benefit for women's shelter Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: A friend of mine is putting on a benefit for a very cool cause, and I'm helping her spread the word... BOOGIE WONDERLAND - a night of soulful jazz and rare grooves. A benefit for La Case de Las Madres, a place of shelter and advocacy for women and children. Live performance by One Nation Underground featuring Terra Deza. Plus DJ George and special guests (to be announced). Where: Cafe du Nord, 2170 Market Street. When: Monday, April 8, 9pm-2am. How much: $25. All proceeds go to La Case de Las Madres. --- Ticket outlets: We Work It Entertainment: (415) 282-2072. Behind the Post Office, 1510 Haight Street, (415) 861-2507. La Casa de Las Madres provides shelter to battered women and their children, striving to empower them to know their own strengts, take risks, and better control their lives. La Casa's goal is to restore dignity, generate hope, evoke courage, and help maximize the potential of their clients. All proceeds will go to La Casa de Las Madres to help support their continual growth in our community. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 16:07:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA20473; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:07:23 -0800 Received: from blob.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA20468; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:07:20 -0800 Received: from sjs400.cisco.com (astro-dhcp-174.cisco.com [171.68.195.174]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA03565 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:07:17 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960402000612.006ae654@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: sjstokes@shellx.best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 16:06:12 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Scott Stokes Subject: Lucky Charms??? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: It was very obvious that Bagok Tribes' promoters were disorganized, and have no idea how to throw a rave. The flier alone not only helped to attract the wrong crowd, but also gives a weapon to people/authorities against our "scene". I think the flier first started getting distributed a month ago, so it was pretty obvious that is was going to get a large attending, which it did. When you have a "massive" rave, it is ignorant to have 1 map point, which opened 1/2 hour before the party starts. I got to the cafe at around 11:30, and it looked like the rave was in the street outside the map-point. The cafe was jammed full of people, and there were hundreds waiting to get inside. My friend and I stood and watched from across the street, because it looked like it would only be a few minutes before it rioted, or the police would come. At around 12, the people in the cafe gave up, and threw papers with directions to the party into the crowd. As soon as we got the location, we left, because the numbers of police were increasing... When we got in line at the warehouse, it was pretty obvious the same riot was going to from. They had, once again, hundreds of people waiting, with only 2 bouncers checking people in. The security didn't know how to control the crowd, and the delays getting in didn't make it any better. The promoters also kept bringing their cars through the center of the crowd, to let them into gate behind the building, which caused more delays. They should have waited for the line to die downs, and then get their friends cars in. Just after my friend got in, and I was about to get checked, one of the promoters, or possibly security, wanted everyone to line up single file. I want to know what he was on. It would be enough of a task to get 500 people to line up straight, but single file??? Of course, it never happened, and it started getting uglier. Then came another bit of entertainment from one of the promoters, who decided he needed to make a speech. He said something about how much it sucked the "We" rushed the map point, broke down the door, etc. They shouldn't have had the map point in the first place, and can blame only themselves. There have been bigger parties, in smaller places, without such problems. After he was done spewing, some of the intelligent people who attended decided to start pushing. At one point, the side door got opened, and about a dozen people rushed in. I had been pushed back about 20 people, and decided I had enough entertainment, and went across the street to watch. One of the security people had been talking to an Oakland officer for a while, and got him to help out. The officer, in his car with lights and sirens going, played chicken with the people on the sidewalk, to get them to line up against the building. Luckily the person who threw the can missed, and the cop didn't hit anybody. They started telling people if they didn't have a ticket, they couldn't get in. Very few people had tickets, and were lined up in one line, people with tickets in another. I figured if I was going to get in, it would be hours. I couldn't leave, because I drove my friend, who I assumed was still alive inside. At around 2:am I went back. There were about 50 to 100 people still waiting. The guards were saying no one else could get in. Something about being full, and the police would shut them down if they did. I went back to rave a little more in my car. At about 3, I tried again. The line was about 15 people, and they were letting them in. I got in line, and when I got to the front, it was the promoter who made the speech collecting money. He said it was $30 to get in. I was a bit confused, and asked what kind of a discount I would get for my can. He told me the deal was this: Since the police threatened to close them down if they let anyone else in, and they were "Full", the guards (Lyon Securities) would take the "risk", if they got a $10 dollar cut from each person. Raving blackmail is a new one to me. He told me that's the deal, he didn't make the decision, and wanted to know if I was in or out. I told him I didn't have much choice, and my car was getting kinda lonely, and gave him $30. I got inside, and it was a lot like a "Cool world". Same mixed crowd, and mixed attitudes. Found my friend inside rather quickly, he had been looking for me for hours. It wasn't full, and I doubt it ever got full. The promoters had several of their own "areas", which explained a lot about their apparent high egos. I saw my friend, the promoter who made the speech, dancing away in their area, giving the finger to the guy with the cam corder. Can't say I didn't get my share of entertainment out of the whole thing. I have lost all my respect for Lyon Securities now. I used to think they were pretty good too. The only way I will go to a Bankok Tribe party again, is if they change their name so I don't know it is the same group. Hope my can was put to good use. Anyone else have a good time?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Did anyone go (or try to go) to Lucky Charms? I heard they had some problems with the map point... like a riot or something? Can anyone who was there tell the list what happened? I sort of think "it serves them right" for distributing a flier with blatant drug references so widely... I bet they put them in shopping malls. Of course this sort of promotion will attract a bad vibe. -troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 16:15:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA21224; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:15:52 -0800 Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA21212; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:15:47 -0800 Received: from 206.214.106.71 (sjx-ca54-07.ix.netcom.com [206.214.106.71]) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA12096 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:14:26 -0800 Message-ID: <315FC9C2.65FB@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 05:19:14 -0700 From: Terence Estioko Reply-To: ctd-zine@ix.netcom.com Organization: CT D-Zine X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Lucky Charms??? References: <199604012133.NAA03892@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Troy Sheets wrote: > > Did anyone go (or try to go) to Lucky Charms? I heard they had some problems > with the map point... like a riot or something? Can anyone who was there > tell the list what happened? Lucky Charms was wack! I was planning to go to Chrysalis but I brought a bunch of newbies and they wanted to go to a "big" rave. Anyway, we got to the map point(Yo Mama's Cafe) at about 11:00. The line was long but not that long. The problems started mainly because the security(or lack of it) was unable to control the line. Everybody, as usual in that situation, started to cut, so much so that by 12:00 the line was more like a mob all squished like sardines in front of the door. Everybody started to become irritated, and soon everyone was yelling and pushing. At this point I wigggled my way close to door. Next thing I know somebody breaks the door down, and people at the doorway start throwing what they called "tickets" into the mob. I was able to get one these tickets, and saw that it was just directions to the location. I asked the guy distributing these what was up, he said that they would start selling tickets at the location. At that point a shitload of cops zoomed up, closed off the streets, and everybody scattered. By now I ready to go to Chrysalis, but these hardcore newbies were determined, so we proceeded to the "warehouse" location. Did I say "warehouse"??? The voice mail did. quote - " a virgin, 20,000 sq. ft. warehouse". The rave was held in an inline roller rink. I was immediately reminded of nightmares from the Pittsburg roller rink off of Railroad. On top of that, as we rolled by, a massive line began to form at the entrance. I jumped out of the car and ran into line. By the time my friends got to the line, it had tripled, to about 300 feet back. Everyone was pissed about the map point, so they tried to pull the same shit that they did over there. I smelled bad vibe, and wanted to go. At the request of my friend I stuck it out and we got in about 2:15. The party was okay- a little too crowded - way too hot. The chill rooms were more like sweat rooms, and it was a bitch to get off the dancefloor as there was just one little opening to the arena. As I ran into my buddies, met new people, and spread and over- abundance of good vibe(the party needed it). Everything started to turn out okay. I talked to the owner of the building, and he was pretty shaken up about the whole thing. I guess we lost that location.(tagging didn't help either) As you mentioned Troy, I think the promotions as well as the flier contributed to near-bust of this party. I was thinking that they probably distributed fliers at every local high school. Way too many people showed up, and some of them just did not know what the fuck was up. The Bagok Tribe tried really hard to get this party to go off, but they made a lot of mistakes reminiscent of Ex-Why-Zzz? As long as they don't let this happen again, apologize, and maybe thow us a free party, I wish them good fortune in their future events. Hugs, Terence CT D-zine From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 16:38:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA23734; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:38:44 -0800 Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA23728; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:38:41 -0800 Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.0); Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:42:38 +0000 X-Sender: ambient@netcom23.netcom.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:41:11 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: ambient@netcom.com (Joe Rice) Subject: Re: Lucky Charms & last weekend & bsp Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >I have lost all my respect for Lyon Securities now. I used to think they >were pretty good too. The only way I will go to a Bankok Tribe party again, >is if they change their name so I don't know it is the same group. > I'm sure if Lyons knew any of their guards were pulling that bullshit they'd take care of it, but this sounds suspiciously like a convenient excuse from a greedy promoter. If his party was full why wouldn't he cut some slack and knock of some of the $20 he was getting from you? Whatever, at least the flier gave me a couple minutes of laughter when I first saw it. =) --- Went to Chrysalis on Saturday, which was great as expected, with a nice big chill room. Thanks to Claire for giving up her slot so I could play after a scheduling mix up. Minor's set in the main room was great, as always. I was sorry to hear that there was some tagging going on and I hope everything worked out with the space. Props to Gateway. Checked out a new ambient/electronica weekly called Techsture on Sunday night. Tomas & Markus, old friends of mine from LA days are doing this and it's quite the place to relax after a weekend of raving. It's at Cafe Abir, corner of Divisadero & Fulton and it's free. Miguel from Single Cell Orchestra is spinning this Sunday and I'll be playing on 4/14. It runs from 8p-12a Joe (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 16:44:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA24476; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:44:59 -0800 Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA24463; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:44:56 -0800 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id TAA12224; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 19:44:23 -0500 Date: 01 Apr 96 19:40:13 EST From: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" Subject: Re: making assumptions Message-ID: <960402004012_71165.755_GHL34-2@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >>I know most people from sfraves would not disrespect a location like >>this. But there is obviously kids out there who do not know that >>damaging locations... ^^^^ >Woah there. I don't think you should make any assumptions about the age >of the people doing this I am 31 and have been spotted tagging >advertising and the like as recently as last week. But I would of course >never do something like this at a rave. Actually, I saw the girls starting to put soap on the mirror (I wish I had stepped forward to say something but I didn't realize how far they would end up going with it, and since I'm older, I'm particularly careful not to appear like someone's mother) -- and they WERE kids, giggly teenagers.... As a really non-agist person (I'm 42, my friends range from 18 to 82, mostly in the 25-to-30ish range) -- I think it's a fair observation that most vandalism IS done by young kids -- it seems to be a phase of expressing why they don't want to follow anyone elses rules or something - - I would have bet we'd be hard-pressed to find people over the age of 25 who would even consider defacing property like that.... but you're telling us proudly that you do it... I don't get it... Now, why you are out tagging private property -- at any age, but especially at 31 -- is pretty much a mystery to me -- I happen to love a lot of graffiti art, and love the surprise of seeing quality, thoughtful work in special places, on sides of buildings that would be blank, bland and boring otherwise, or on cement walls, etc. --- but billboards, no matter what you think of advertising and marketing, are private property, just like houses and buildings, and dance studios and bathroom walls --- and NO ONE has the right to destroy someone else's property ... remember, PLUR, the R is respect? Do unto others?..... And besides, most tagging is sincerely ugly. I for one don't want to have to look at that visual scarring and clutter all over the city. I don't care how cool some gangsta thinks his initials look, they're ugly. You say you would never do this at a rave? I think we should aim to have the same standards for treating people and our environment with respect wherever we are, Muni bus or Grace Cathedral. You want to make your mark on the world? Paint on a canvas that you can keep or give away, create art that will stay around for a while! So much for not sounding like a mom -- hey, I can't help it -- but I really have strong feelings about the line between art, expression and vandalism .... Sorry for going off on you here, hugs to you too, Jim. Leslie : ) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 16:51:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA24856; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:51:24 -0800 Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA24846; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:51:20 -0800 Received: by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id QAA15881; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:49:56 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:49:54 -0800 (PST) From: "d. durrell" Subject: NON-RAVE Re: MIDI files To: Tadas Jurevicius cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <1C457807DE@kma.lt> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I myself am looking for juicy files to experiment with.... please let me know if there is anyone out there to fill a couple floppies of mine (a few bytes and a nibble). Let the beats go STRONG! mrfrog On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Tadas Jurevicius wrote: > Hellow everybody! > I want to ask you for one favour.Maybe somebody has some cool > sounding rave\techno\hardcore samples in MIDI format.I need them very > much, so i would be very thankful for it. > Thanks, > Tadas > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 16:57:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA25541; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:57:48 -0800 Received: from mail1.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA25530; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:57:45 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA13196; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:57:35 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA10703; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:54:02 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:54:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199604020054.QAA10703@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: James Ausman From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: making assumptions Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >>I know most people from sfraves would not disrespect a location like this. >>But there is obviously kids out there who do not know that damaging locations > ^^^^ > >Woah there. I don't think you should make any assumptions about the age of >the people doing this. I am 31 and have been spotted tagging advertising >and the like as recently as last week. But I would of course never do >something like this at a rave. Whoa yourself. Are you serious? You're into vandalizing? Where do you draw the line? At what point do you say to yourself, "People probably don't want to see what I'm scrawling, and I'm writing on something that DOESN'T BELONG TO ME"? Where does respect for others begin? What criteria do you use in deciding who to respect and who not to respect? And I'm not just talking about the people who own the property you deface, but the people who have to see what you write. If this sounds like a flame...well, I guess it is... S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 17:39:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA01570; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:39:48 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA01562; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:39:45 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA17597 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:39:46 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA15211 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:39:47 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA03624 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:39:44 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:41:22 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Paging Vince Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Does anyone know how I can get in touch with Vince, the guy with the long dreads and dark beard & mustache & big, loving heart, who blessed some of us with laminates at Chrysalis? Also, someone at the party (either him or someone else) told me an e-mail address that was a name which escapes me @aimnet.com. Can anyone supply the first part of this address of a fellow raver? Any help y'all can provide would be greatly appreciated :) Thanx, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 17:47:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA02040; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:47:31 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA02030; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:47:28 -0800 Received: from [128.32.205.205] (u2w36.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.205.205]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA03465 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:47:28 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:47:42 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: it's that day again... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >Important notice for April 1, 1996. > >Our annual system "spring cleaning" gets underway Monday here at >community.net, and by about 11:30 a.m. we will be blowing the dust out of the >modem cables. Some of the back-presure may travel along the phone lines >affecting list members who are reading their mail at that time. This may >cause dust to spray out of your keyboard, mouse and modem if it's an >external one. In order to prevent this you might want to cover these wocka wocka wocka. -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, t-shirts and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- My Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | ...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...| | -> but patience always helps. <- | | | | Michal Migurski | | (510) 664-1026 | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 17:52:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA02604; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:52:44 -0800 Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA02599; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:52:42 -0800 Received: by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA22685; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:52:45 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199604020152.RAA22685@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: Bad Signs To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:52:44 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 859 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: [ to sfraves mailist ] In "honor" of the recent Lucky Charms fiasco , I thought I'd start a new topic thread: Signs Of A Bad Rave Some signs that might indicate that the rave may not turn out well: 1. Flyering and/or posters near intermediate and high schools. 2. Not so subtle drug references on promotional material. 3. Promotion material way before the event. 4. New or unknown promoters. 5. Size of promo material greater than an index card. 6. More than one DJ who is supposed to be playing somewhere else that night. 7. At least one DJ who's surprised at being listed to play! 8. Unintelligible phone message. The above is my opinion only , although others may agree with me. Any one "sign" may not be the mark of doom , but a bunch together may be a warning to forget this one! Please add to the list ! Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 17:56:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA02915; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:56:08 -0800 Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA02909; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:56:04 -0800 Received: from (solle@srf-ca5-01.ix.netcom.com [199.182.131.161]) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA18586 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:53:26 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:53:26 -0800 Message-Id: <199604020153.RAA18586@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> From: solle@ix.netcom.com (Christopher Solle) Subject: Re: Disrespecting Locations To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Hats off to Leslie!!! Nothing makes me angrier than having to see someones scribble all over someone elses car, house, or whatever. When I was last in Europe I took a picture of these Roman Ruins with tag marks all over them! My only thought was that the people who did this didn't have any knowledge about their medium or respect for others who had yet to enjoy them. This isn't the first time that this has happened at a rave and it won't be the last until we educate these people. And please, don't tell me that taking these peoples pens or spray cans away will stifle their freedom of speech just their self declared freedom to masturbatorily scribble their names all over everything. Too busy dancin' to be taggin' -Sunny From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 17:57:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA03106; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:57:27 -0800 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA03089; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:57:21 -0800 Received: (from raygun@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA15166; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:57:21 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:57:20 -0800 (PST) From: Reagan Reid To: "Eric P. Peterson" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Paging Vince In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Yes that DEAR's e-mail is vince@vmar.com...well last time I checked it was....Wayne?????? On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Eric P. Peterson wrote: > Does anyone know how I can get in touch with Vince, the guy with > the long dreads and dark beard & mustache & big, loving heart, who blessed > some of us with laminates at Chrysalis? > Also, someone at the party (either him or someone else) told me an > e-mail address that was a name which escapes me @aimnet.com. Can anyone > supply the first part of this address of a fellow raver? > Any help y'all can provide would be greatly appreciated :) > > Thanx, > > - E > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 18:04:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA03836; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:04:56 -0800 Received: from itsa.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA03831; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:04:53 -0800 Received: (from jfogler@localhost) by itsa.ucsf.EDU (8.6.8/GSC4.24) id SAA203686; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:04:55 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:04:54 -0800 (PST) From: Jessica Fogler To: Nancy cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Hey, Lurkers! (yeah, you!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Hey everyone, Nancy has seduced me out of hiding. I've been listening in on SFRAVES for several weeks now and feeling a bit shy about joining in but here goes. My name is Jess and I've been raving for just under a year. Last spring I went to Nepal and India to trek and travel for 5 months (by myself!) before starting medical school in SF which is where I am now. After month long trek in the himalayas I walked into this little trailside lodge to get a cup of tea and this amazing "dance" tape was playing. I used to be the kind of person who would run screaming from a room if you played techno to me, but all of a sudden I found the music in my bones and I danced and danced. I spent another 4 months travelling with this overwhelming desire to dance and finally ended up in London (where I was raised) and hit the clubs (megatripolis etc..). Sweet relief....ahhh Since then I have returned to SF, have started medical school which takes up most of my time, and have tried desperately to find people to come raving with me. Most of my school friends are way to busy and tired to come with me so I've only been able to make it out occasionally. For the last two weeks I've had a friend from London staying with me and we've been out a lot (aborigine, pak-a-bowl, chrysalis etc..). However, she left today and I'm back to having no raving partners (sob). It's been great to plug into SFRAVES and maybe I'll be able to find new raving friends now. Speak out if you'll adopt me! I'm friendly and don't bite (usually!). Two reservations: First - I'm a recovering drug addict. I've been clean and sober for almost nine years and it's really important for me to stay that way. Although I have no problem with others taking drugs, hanging out with people on e or acid can give me rightgeous cravings so I have to be careful to bring a drug and alcohol free friend with me to raves. Are there any clean and sober types out there? Or others whose main activity isn't the drugs. Like I said, I have no problem with it from a moral standpoint but I need to keep my own head clear - ya know? Second - being a medical student, I have shitloads of work to do and SFRAVES is a pretty heavy load mailing list. I'm worried that I won't be able to keep up with the time demands of the list. I'd really like to meet some new rave partners on here though. I guess I'll stay on for a while and see. Thanks again, Nancy, for the prompting to introduce myself. Hoping to get hooked up, Jess From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 18:14:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA04695; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:14:02 -0800 Received: from itsa.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA04686; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:13:59 -0800 Received: (from jfogler@localhost) by itsa.ucsf.EDU (8.6.8/GSC4.24) id SAA197815; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:14:01 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:14:01 -0800 (PST) From: Jessica Fogler To: sfraves Subject: toonz at chrysalis Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Hi everyone, went to chrysalis on saturday and although I dug the vibes and loved the space and great deco, I couldn't get into the music. I tried really hard to get into dancing from about 12-2 and found the music to be way to .... something. I can't really explain. I think of myself of a trance fan, and I couldn't put my finger on why I didn't like this music. What was it? Too a-melodic? fast? hard-housey? Help! I know it's silly to try to overcategorize music but sometimes it helps when you're trying to decide what events to go to. Any overcategorization appreciated. yours in academic servitude, Jess From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 18:23:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA05714; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:23:46 -0800 Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA05701; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:23:42 -0800 Received: from netcom22.netcom.com (larryc@netcom22.netcom.com [192.100.81.136]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA01234 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:29:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id SAA26874; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:22:27 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199604020222.SAA26874@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: UnDrugged To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:22:26 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: [ to sfraves list ] Recently , Jessica Fogler asked : > > ... - I'm a recovering drug addict. I've been clean and sober for > almost nine years and it's really important for me to stay that way. > Although I have no problem with others taking drugs, hanging out with > people on e or acid can give me rightgeous cravings so I have to be > careful to bring a drug and alcohol free friend with me to raves. Are > there any clean and sober types out there? Or others whose main activity > isn't the drugs. Like I said, I have no problem with it from a moral > standpoint but I need to keep my own head clear - ya know? > The vast majority of times at raves I'm not on anything illegal. ( I may be in trouble if they outlaw caffiene, candy , or orange juice ). So say "HI!" if you see me - I'm an older asian guy , about 5'7". Sometimes I wear red rimmed sports "raving" goggles , or glasses with a safety strap to keep them on my head. The hair on my head that I can see is black , with a few white hairs. I also have a little dark spot on the bridge of my nose . Lots of folks rave without being on e or acid or ( drug of the month here )!!!! Shocking , isn't it ?!!? Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 18:57:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA08624; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:57:27 -0800 Received: from horatio.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA08618; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:57:24 -0800 Received: (from knegtel@localhost) by horatio.ucsf.EDU (940816.SGI.8.6.9/GSC4.24) id SAA28162 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:57:27 -0800 From: "Ronald Knegtel" Message-Id: <9604011857.ZM28160@horatio.ucsf.edu> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 18:57:26 -0800 In-Reply-To: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) "UnDrugged" (Apr 1, 6:22pm) References: <199604020222.SAA26874@netcom22.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: UnDrugged Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Apr 1, 6:22pm, Larry Ching wrote: > Subject: UnDrugged > [ to sfraves list ] > Recently , Jessica Fogler asked : > > > > ... - I'm a recovering drug addict. I've been clean and sober for > > almost nine years and it's really important for me to stay that way. > > Although I have no problem with others taking drugs, hanging out with > > people on e or acid can give me rightgeous cravings so I have to be > > careful to bring a drug and alcohol free friend with me to raves. Are > > there any clean and sober types out there? Or others whose main activity > > isn't the drugs. Like I said, I have no problem with it from a moral > > standpoint but I need to keep my own head clear - ya know? > > > The vast majority of times at raves I'm not on anything illegal. ( I > may be in trouble if they outlaw caffiene, candy , or orange juice ). [snipped Larry's description] > > Lots of folks rave without being on e or acid or ( drug of the month > here )!!!! Shocking , isn't it ?!!? Yes it is. I found it even more shocking to discover that drinking alcohol in California is not allowed after 2am. Although drinking/smoking is somewhat of a taboo on this list, to me it seems that laws like this sort of force people to use drugs to enjoy their evening to the fullest. Back in Holland, friends who were not into drugs (or reacted bad to them) enjoyed themselves thoroughly with the occasional whiskey or beer and still were nice, smiling, talkative etc. till late. In California, these people get somewhat bored/tired after 3am, no matter how good the music is, while their chemically assisted buddies are still going strong until 7am. It doesn't prevent them from partying though, albeit of shorter duration. How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? The Frying Dutchman -- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 19:07:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA09507; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 19:07:13 -0800 Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA09488; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 19:07:09 -0800 From: Fork8@aol.com Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA25246 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:06:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:06:43 -0500 Message-ID: <960401220642_503437969@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: GG park? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Anyone go to GG park on saturday? How was it? I heard there were some mishaps. -FK From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 19:32:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA11275; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 19:32:23 -0800 Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA11265; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 19:32:19 -0800 Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (ausman@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA25247; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 19:32:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199604020332.TAA25247@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> To: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: making assumptions In-reply-to: Your message of "01 Apr 1996 19:40:13 EST." <960402004012_71165.755_GHL34-2@CompuServe.COM> cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 19:31:41 -0800 From: James Ausman Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > >>Woah there. I don't think you should make any assumptions about the age >>of the people doing this I am 31 and have been spotted tagging advertising >>and the like as recently as last week. But I would of course never do >>something like this at a rave. > >- I would have bet we'd be hard-pressed to find people over the age of 25 who >would even consider defacing property like that.... but you're telling us >proudly that you do it... I don't get it... > >Now, why you are out tagging private property -- at any age, but especially at >31 -- is pretty much a mystery to me -- I happen to love a lot of graffiti art >, >and love the surprise of seeing quality, thoughtful work in special places, on >sides of buildings that would be blank, bland and boring otherwise, or on ceme >nt >walls, etc. --- Perhaps I misused the word tagging or it means something different to you and me. I don't mean putting my initials up on it. I mean reappropriating the message. >but billboards, no matter what you think of advertising and marketing, are >private property, just like houses and buildings, and dance studios and bathro >om >walls --- and NO ONE has the right to destroy someone else's property ... >remember, PLUR, the R is respect? Do unto others?..... No one has the right to cover every available space within my vision with propoganda telling to buy buy buy either, but somebody sure does it. I don't think this idea of "private property" is sacred either, unlike most Americans. Mostly it is way that those on top (who mostly got there by stealing, killing, and pillaging) keep their place. But _that_ is a discussion for another list. I basically believe that forcing advertising on people is a profoundly disrespectful act. It is impossible for me to travel around, get to work, go shopping, whatever, without being bombarded with advertising. I sure don't have the resources to push my opinions on other people that way. But more to the point, I wouldn't want that sort of power and would not use it in that way even if I had it. I think creative vandalism is a very powerful form of reappropriating a mind numbing technique and using it to help people think. I am reminded of a famous billboard change. A new ad campaign came out for Fiat(?) with the caption "If this car was a lady it would get pinched." A "vandal" added "If this lady was a car, she would run you over." I think this is great. What do you think? So yes, it all comes down to respect. Most advertisers have no respect for us, they do not want to help make us think or make informed decisions, they simply want to manipulate us and our desires. I think respect for ourselves and our fellow humans almost requires a response. And in spite of what I just said about "private property", I would never vandalize someone home or car or anything like that. I guess it is sort of how I feel about most of societies rules. I think about them and if they make sense to me, I obey them. If they make no sense I try to ignore them. But when the rules are backed with jails and guns sometimes that is hard. >And besides, most tagging is sincerely ugly. I for one don't want to have to >look at that visual scarring and clutter all over the city. I don't care how >cool some gangsta thinks his initials look, they're ugly. Well, I think they're ugly too, but they also speak to the indominability of the human spirit. And not everyone has our sense of aesthetics. >So much for not sounding like a mom -- hey, I can't help it -- but I really ha >ve >strong feelings about the line between art, expression and vandalism .... Well, so do I, so this might be an interesting discussion. >Sorry for going off on you here, hugs to you too, Jim. Thanks! Jim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 20:02:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA13998; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:02:08 -0800 Received: from wired.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA13989; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:02:05 -0800 Received: from [204.62.132.158] (olives.wired.com [204.62.132.158]) by wired.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA09527 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:02:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:07:12 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: olives@hotwired.com (Oliver Raskin) Subject: Full Moon Party??? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Hey Ravers! Anyone out there know if one is going off this month? Is there an info-line? Thanks lotsa, Oliver Oliver Raskin olives@hotwired.com http://www.hotwired.com (415) 356-3744 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 20:18:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA15409; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:18:11 -0800 Received: from elaine46.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA15401; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:18:08 -0800 Received: from localhost (mohack@localhost) by elaine46.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA21423 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:18:10 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine46.Stanford.EDU: mohack owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:18:10 -0800 (PST) From: Kristofer Ananda Carrison X-Sender: mohack@elaine46.Stanford.EDU To: sfraves Subject: It's too light here! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Where for art thou Brian Darkness?! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 20:36:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA16900; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:36:00 -0800 Received: from elaine46.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA16890; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:35:57 -0800 Received: from localhost (mohack@localhost) by elaine46.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA21811; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:35:59 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine46.Stanford.EDU: mohack owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:35:58 -0800 (PST) From: Kristofer Ananda Carrison X-Sender: mohack@elaine46.Stanford.EDU To: Ronald Knegtel cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: UnDrugged In-Reply-To: <9604011857.ZM28160@horatio.ucsf.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: amino acids and good nutrition fuel a sober all-nighter On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Ronald Knegtel wrote: > On Apr 1, 6:22pm, Larry Ching wrote: > > Subject: UnDrugged > > [ to sfraves list ] > > Recently , Jessica Fogler asked : > > > > > > ... - I'm a recovering drug addict. I've been clean and sober for > > > almost nine years and it's really important for me to stay that way. > > > Although I have no problem with others taking drugs, hanging out with > > > people on e or acid can give me rightgeous cravings so I have to be > > > careful to bring a drug and alcohol free friend with me to raves. Are > > > there any clean and sober types out there? Or others whose main activity > > > isn't the drugs. Like I said, I have no problem with it from a moral > > > standpoint but I need to keep my own head clear - ya know? > > > > > The vast majority of times at raves I'm not on anything illegal. ( I > > may be in trouble if they outlaw caffiene, candy , or orange juice ). > [snipped Larry's description] > > > > Lots of folks rave without being on e or acid or ( drug of the month > > here )!!!! Shocking , isn't it ?!!? > > Yes it is. I found it even more shocking to discover that drinking alcohol > in California is not allowed after 2am. Although drinking/smoking is somewhat > of a taboo on this list, to me it seems that laws like this sort of force > people to use drugs to enjoy their evening to the fullest. Back in > Holland, friends who were not into drugs (or reacted bad to them) enjoyed > themselves thoroughly with the occasional whiskey or beer and still were > nice, smiling, talkative etc. till late. In California, these people get > somewhat bored/tired after 3am, no matter how good the music is, while their > chemically assisted buddies are still going strong until 7am. It doesn't > prevent them from partying though, albeit of shorter duration. > How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? > > > The Frying Dutchman > > > -- > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 20:39:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA17182; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:39:21 -0800 Received: from vmar.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA17174; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:39:18 -0800 Received: from [157.22.240.191] by vmar.com with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.0); Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:42:56 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:37:45 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Vince Subject: Re: Tribal Future June 1 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >> >> Oh Yeah... Tribal Future will happen on June First. Tix are $20 for >> the weekend. Did I Mention 16 cabinets of E.A.R. Surround Sound? >> Anything else? >> >> Peace Mark Ameba >> > The first full moon in June is on June 1st ! > > Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com They say a party like this only happens once in a blue moon. (2 full moons in 1 month). I guess they were right !!!!! Vince From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 20:47:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA17718; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:47:16 -0800 Received: from svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA17705; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:47:11 -0800 Received: by svpal.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #4) id m0u3xzx-000DAUC; Mon, 1 Apr 96 20:47 PST Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:47:15 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: Re: Full Moon Party??? cc: happy ravers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: does anyone know when the moon is full in april/may after this full moon - is it a 26 day cycle? astronomically curious, tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 21:00:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA18622; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 21:00:38 -0800 Received: from netcom.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA18611; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 21:00:35 -0800 Received: by netcom.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id UAA10375; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:51:07 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:51:07 -0800 (PST) From: Cami Edwards Subject: Re: making assumptions To: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> cc: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" In-Reply-To: <960402004012_71165.755_GHL34-2@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On 1 Apr 1996, Leslie Ayres wrote: > Now, why you are out tagging private property -- at any age, but > especially at 31 -- is pretty much a mystery to me -- I happen to love a > lot of graffiti art, and love the surprise of seeing quality, thoughtful > work in special places, on sides of buildings that would be blank, bland > and boring otherwise, or on cement walls, etc. --- > > but billboards, > no matter what you think of advertising and marketing, are private > property, just like houses and buildings, and dance studios and bathroom > walls --- and NO ONE has the right to destroy someone else's property ... > remember, PLUR, the R is respect? Do unto others?..... I agree with you about destroying other's property, but screwing with billboards can be truly subversive. Have you ever picked up an issue of Adbusters (if not I suggest everyone check it out, seriously). It is a great magazine about the many evils of the ad industry. Extremely eye opening stuff, especially if you have never thought about the way ads affect your (or if not yours especially, other's) thinking and spending. It tends to dwell on the big baddies like the cig and booze ads, but delves into the objectification of women in ads, as well as the unreal happiness of the american ideal. A little subversive tagging of one of Philip Morris' 1,000s of ads is not going to hurt that giant, global, evil company, (too bad:) and it may do some good especially if it is done in a way that will make those who see it think for a second. just my .02 Cheers**** Cami ps. not very rave related, huh? Well, I had fun at Chrysalis in the chill room, way too hot for me to dance. Hi to anyone I met! Loved Joe's set, as usual. :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 21:34:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA21522; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 21:34:49 -0800 Received: from netcom21.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA21509; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 21:34:45 -0800 Received: by netcom21.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id VAA04520; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 21:34:49 -0800 From: darrele@netcom.com (Darrel Etter) Message-Id: <199604020534.VAA04520@netcom21.netcom.com> Subject: toonz at chrysalis:RE To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfraves) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 21:34:49 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1245 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > Hi everyone, > went to chrysalis on saturday and although I dug the vibes and loved the > space and great deco, I couldn't get into the music. Exactly, I was waiting for somebody else to say something. > I tried really hard to get into dancing from about 12-2 and found the > music to be way to .... something. You hit it on the spot! It was ... something :) >I can't really explain. I think of > myself of a trance fan, Maybe that's it, Jess. I too am tainted by trance. I'm so hard into it that I get disappointed with other stuff so easily. I actually prefered the chill room musically. At the Golden Gate party on Saturday there was some music that I liked very much from about 3 to 6pm ( the time I was there. ) Too bad the sound system was broken. Was that Graeme ????? I think the guy had a blue NY tee shirt on. All those baseball cap boys look the same to me. > Jess PS: Jess, I never do any drugs, or drink, or even talk to people. Just dance and dig the music. I really love music. PS: Nancy, I was one of the lurkers who said "hi NancY" to you at Chrysylis. Actually, I don't think of myself as a lurker. I try to contribute when I have some info or opinion. Only about music though. -Darrel darrele@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 22:06:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA23705; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:06:49 -0800 Received: from odin.community.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA23689; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:06:45 -0800 Received: from intellect.community.net (n153.solano.community.net [140.174.119.153]) by odin.community.net with SMTP id WAA00109; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:05:39 -0800 Received: by intellect.community.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BB2017.95283F00@intellect.community.net>; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:07:14 -0800 Message-ID: <01BB2017.95283F00@intellect.community.net> From: b e n c h u n To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" Cc: "'Fork8@aol.com'" Subject: RE: GG park? Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:07:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Monday, April 01, 1996 7:06 PM, Fork8@aol.com wrote: >Anyone go to GG park on saturday? How was it? I heard there were some >mishaps. after a slow start due to a missing cable or something like that it went = very well, there were a lot of people there, dancing and just enjoying a = beautiful day and great music... I was there from about 2 until 5, and = just as I was leaving it seemed that the sound system experienced a = severe drop in volume level... I don't know if they ever got it fixed = but even if not: thanks to organic for putting on a great free daytime = event! B E N C H U N -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- H O M E: W O R K: ben_chun@community.net webmaster@platform-horizons.com http://community.net/~ben_chun/ http://www.platform-horizons.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 22:09:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA23882; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:09:16 -0800 Received: from odin.community.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA23874; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:09:12 -0800 Received: from intellect.community.net (n153.solano.community.net [140.174.119.153]) by odin.community.net with SMTP id WAA00441; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:08:28 -0800 Received: by intellect.community.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BB2017.FA9C3B20@intellect.community.net>; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:10:04 -0800 Message-ID: <01BB2017.FA9C3B20@intellect.community.net> From: b e n c h u n To: sfraves Cc: "'Kristofer Ananda Carrison'" Subject: RE: It's too light here! Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:10:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Monday, April 01, 1996 12:18 PM, Kristofer Ananda Carrison wrote: >Where for art thou Brian Darkness?! I seem to remember mr. darkness saying that he was leaving his name = behind (along with his email address) a few weeks back... (archives = anyone?) he stated something to the effect that some people would know = his new identity but most would not... most likely he is reading this = right now... B E N C H U N -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- H O M E: W O R K: ben_chun@community.net webmaster@platform-horizons.com http://community.net/~ben_chun/ http://www.platform-horizons.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 22:11:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA24123; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:11:03 -0800 Received: from club.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA24114; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:10:59 -0800 Received: from [157.22.222.111] by club.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1b9); Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:10:54 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:10:16 -0800 To: Reagan Reid , "Eric P. Peterson" From: "Wayne D. Correia" Subject: Re: Paging Vince Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: At 5:57 PM 4/1/96, Reagan Reid wrote: > Yes that DEAR's e-mail is vince@vmar.com...well last time I checked >it was....Wayne?????? > > > > >On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Eric P. Peterson wrote: > >> Does anyone know how I can get in touch with Vince, the guy with >> the long dreads and dark beard & mustache & big, loving heart, who blessed >> some of us with laminates at Chrysalis? >> Also, someone at the party (either him or someone else) told me an >> e-mail address that was a name which escapes me @aimnet.com. Can anyone >> supply the first part of this address of a fellow raver? >> Any help y'all can provide would be greatly appreciated :) Nope! I am -w ________________________________________________________________________ Wayne D. Correia wayne@club.net 900 Tennessee Street TEL: +1.415.826.6000 http://www.club.net San Francisco CA 94107-3014 FAX: +1.415.826.6100 http://www.domain.net From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 22:12:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA24245; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:12:11 -0800 Received: from ix2.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA24238; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:12:06 -0800 Received: from by ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id WAA03773; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:11:39 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:11:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199604020611.WAA03773@ix2.ix.netcom.com> From: shawna-@ix.netcom.com (Shawna McGourty) Subject: Re: UnDrugged To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? Those times I've done parties sober, I will usually have a cup of coffee or two before going out, and I've not yet had any problems keeping awake. This is usually because the energy of the party is often so intense that I don't feel like I need food or sleep at all anyway! I've experienced this several times, it's a stupendous feeling. The energy just gets to me, imbues me with what feels like an unlimited supply of get-up-&-go! So that's how I do it, anyway, don't know about others! Maybe some take an hour off or so to nap in the middle of it in the chill room. Shawna From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 22:44:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA27282; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:44:24 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA27271; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:44:21 -0800 Received: from [128.32.205.208] (u2w39.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.205.208]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA01455; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:44:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:44:16 -0800 To: Jessica Fogler From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: Hey, Lurkers! (yeah, you!) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >Although I have no problem with others taking drugs, hanging out with >people on e or acid can give me rightgeous cravings so I have to be >careful to bring a drug and alcohol free friend with me to raves. Are A lot of people get really surprised when they hear I go to parties sober... I got stoned at a rave once, but it was no fun at all so I haven't been to one *on* anything since... For some reason a lot of people I talk to think that's really odd, since the "(stereo)typical" raver (a reasonably accurate stereotype, from what I've seen --don't flame :) is into many of the drugs that accompany the scene. I've never even *tried* e... not that I'm totally against drug use, it just doesn't hold much attraction for me... So, what do y'all think? Do a lot of people party sober on a regular basis or am I some kind of freek? -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, t-shirts and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- My Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | ...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...| | -> but patience always helps. <- | | | | Michal Migurski | | (510) 664-1026 | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 22:59:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA28426; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:59:10 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA28419; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:59:07 -0800 Received: from julie.teleport.com (shakti@julie.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA22069; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:59:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (shakti@localhost) by julie.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA09839; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:59:09 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: julie.teleport.com: shakti owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 22:59:09 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: michal migurski cc: Jessica Fogler , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Hey, Lurkers! (yeah, you!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: i go sober *alot*. i think using certain chemicals as a spiritual tool or if something happens to pop your way and it feels right that is cool but i personally get WAY high on the music and i dance like a maniac! personally, i've never been able to dance on 'you-know-what'...i prefer hottubs and chill living rooms with ambient music...or sometimes my consciousness will be altered at a party and i spend the time there guiding or being guided...it's all the same i guess! do whatever feels good to you! bren :) missing SF...:( On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, michal migurski wrote: > >Although I have no problem with others taking drugs, hanging out with > >people on e or acid can give me rightgeous cravings so I have to be > >careful to bring a drug and alcohol free friend with me to raves. Are > > > A lot of people get really surprised when they hear I go to parties > sober... I got stoned at a rave once, but it was no fun at all so I haven't > been to one *on* anything since... For some reason a lot of people I talk > to think that's really odd, since the "(stereo)typical" raver (a reasonably > accurate stereotype, from what I've seen --don't flame :) is into many of > the drugs that accompany the scene. I've never even *tried* e... not that > I'm totally against drug use, it just doesn't hold much attraction for > me... > > So, what do y'all think? Do a lot of people party sober on a regular basis > or am I some kind of freek? > > -m. > > > 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 > | -flyers, t-shirts and other diversions- | > | for that whole body thirst situation | > | | > | (- My Portfolio! -) | > | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | > | ...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...| > | -> but patience always helps. <- | > | | > | Michal Migurski | > | (510) 664-1026 | > 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 > > http://www.teleport.com/~shakti From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 1 23:20:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA29951; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 23:20:37 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA29945; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 23:20:35 -0800 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp035-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.35]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id XAA27315; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 23:20:26 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960402071957.007117cc@moon.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@moon.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 23:19:57 -0800 To: "Ronald Knegtel" From: Fundamental 99 Subject: Re: UnDrugged Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? I find that taking a couple capsules of Ginseng does wonders for the past-midnight energy level. Caffeine works too, but I've always found it to mess up my thinking a bit. I suppose you could always smoke tobacco... yick. :P Brendan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 00:00:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id AAA02681; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 00:00:24 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA02466; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 00:00:13 -0800 Received: from [205.134.228.40] (ppp040-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.40]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id AAA29326; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 00:00:07 -0800 X-Sender: sddpw@pop.sirius.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 23:56:24 +1200 To: DJ Hardware , sfraves@hyperreal.com From: sddpw@sirius.com (Shimako-Dominguez Department of Public Works) Subject: Best DJ survey's suck Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: EXACTLY!! One of the very many things I love about house/rave culture is that it is not a bunch of slack mouthed people all facing one way staring at some stage for an hour and then everyone go home. It's about being yourself and a place where EVERYONE is the show, not just some yahoo who got mega pr $$ through a record label. (see the quote about Keoki following. For those of you who don't know, super DJ Keoki slept his way to the top. It was not based on his talent, which people realize once they actually hear him live. He was shagging the owner of the label.) I do think it is important for DJs to get their names out because we want to know the artists we identify with. The music of the underground scene is just as much about the DJs personality and style as it is about the genre(trance, deephouse, progressive, etc.) I just think it is sad when some DJs and also club kids/ravers lose sight of that and bring that whole "rock star" mentality to a scene it does not belong. I know this is a basic repeat of what is said below, but I feel so strongly about this, I just had to squak for a paragraph or two. peace....arkay >On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Abiel wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Ali Naderzad wrote: >> >> > Moonshine music is looking for the best american DJ to press their next >> > mixed CD.. send me emails as to whom you think should be featured!!.. >> >> Best DJ??????? What kinda Superbowl shit is this? Its bad enough that we >> have vain sellout DJs like Keoki to label themselves a Super-DJ and bring >> a rock star image to a supposed anti-establishment scene. Now this, a >> best DJ competition. Lets go out and find the best grain of sand or lets >> go out and look for the best blade of grass. >> >> Or better yet, lets come up with the BEST MARKETING SCHEME we can use to >> sell the public a CD that, like it or not, represents the best DJ in the >> country. >> >> Best DJ, we dont need no steenkin' best DJ. >> >> -Abiel >> > > > > Perfectly Put!!!! > AMEN!!! > > > > DJ HARDWARE From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 00:43:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id AAA08084; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 00:43:41 -0800 Received: from scruz.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA08079; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 00:43:39 -0800 Received: from [165.227.109.23] by scruz.net (8.7.3/1.34) id AAA05583; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 00:43:42 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: anarch@mail.scruznet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 00:45:33 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: anarch@scruznet.com (Anarch) Subject: Hardfloor -- Respect Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Just picked up this CD (used) for a song--a definite thumbs up. Nice spare techno sound, though overall a tad monotonous. I particularly like the pair of Mahogany Roots and Mustard Cornflakes. anarch@scruznet.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 00:49:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id AAA08609; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 00:49:44 -0800 Received: from vanbc.wimsey.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id AAA08598; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 00:49:41 -0800 Received: by vanbc.wimsey.com (Smail-3.1.29.1 #32) id m0u41mb-0001sfC; Tue, 2 Apr 96 00:49 PST Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 00:49:45 -0800 (PST) From: Karen Hardie To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Best DJ survey's suck (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: *snips* >One of the very many things I love about house/rave culture is that it is >not a bunch of slack mouthed people all facing one way staring at some >stage for an hour and then everyone go home. It's about being yourself and >a place where EVERYONE is the show, not just some yahoo who got mega pr $$ >through a record label. I AGREE!! And how COULD anyone pick THE BEST DJ IN AMERICA?? aside from the fact that it leaves out some of the big names from Europe .... certain djs are awesome for different reasons .... an awesome house dj might not be a very good ambient dj ... and vice versa. And anyways i don't necessarily go to events for the DJ, although i'm more likely to go if i know someone i want to see will be there ... but if it's being put on by a bunch of money hungry promoters and the rest of the evening will suck, forget it. The whole experience is what i like, NOT just the dj. And if the DJ doesn't have a good happening crowd, what's the point of spinning? isn't the whole fun of being a dj to mix and blend and play with beats and sounds and textures and watch how much fun everyone's having going off to them? it much be SUCH a rush to see how much pleasure you can bring to the folk out dancing and grooving. that's the sign of a good dj to me, is one who's having just as much fun spinning as i am dancing, NOT one who's trying to project some sort of demi-god image. each dj has his or her strengths and weaknesses and it also depends on the style of music you like best ... someone who likes DJ Sneak may not like Jon Williams ... although they are both well-known, who's to say which one is better? IMHO, k From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 01:08:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA10681; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 01:08:35 -0800 Received: from netcom23.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA10658; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 01:08:29 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id BAA12441; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 01:08:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199604020908.BAA12441@netcom23.netcom.com> To: bpm@dhp.com cc: idm@hyperreal.com, nm-list@xmission.com, "San FranDisco Ravers List" Subject: Re: BSP -- The Heather Woodbury Report (one-woman performance novel) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 01 Apr 96 15:06:23 PST." <199604012306.PAA16986@chum.hooked.net> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 01:08:31 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Moonpup sez: |On Mon, Apr 1, 1996 2:04:10 PM at Niels P. Mayer wrote: |>friend who writes for Spin Magazine and he ended up writing a 1-pager |>on SF's rave scene that predominantly mentioned an underground rave on |>some unnamed california beach -- an early, accurate, and positive |>accounting of the rave scene in the press... There's mention of this in |>the early SFR archives. | |I would love to see that article, (i spun at that party)........do you know |what month/year that article was in........just by chance.......that was |one of the greatest parties I ever played at..........moonpup The author's name is Dudley Saunders -- perhaps you can do some kind of search for that name (try alta vista off of http://www.search.com/ and use the proper capitalization for a name) -- some of the early sfraves archives are on the web so you should be able to get a search hit. Then look at the date of the message and that should give you a pretty good idea of the timeframe of that article ... I quite frankly don't remember the dates, but vaguely recall that this article was published in november-december-january-february-march timeframe after that connection rave. Since I just moved and undoubtedly threw away any nonessential paper encumberances, I doubt I have that article any more. -- NpM. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 01:11:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA11104; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 01:11:28 -0800 Received: from scruz.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA11095; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 01:11:24 -0800 Received: from [165.227.109.23] by scruz.net (8.7.3/1.34) id BAA06696; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 01:11:28 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: anarch@mail.scruznet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 01:13:19 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: anarch@scruznet.com (Anarch) Subject: Re: Hey, Lurkers! (yeah, you!) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) wrote: >So, what do y'all think? Do a lot of people party sober on a regular basis >or am I some kind of freek? I go stone cold sober often--half the time at least. When I do indulge, it's usually no more than some beer before things get started. anarch@scruznet.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 01:11:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA11138; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 01:11:35 -0800 Received: from scruz.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA11110; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 01:11:28 -0800 Received: from [165.227.109.23] by scruz.net (8.7.3/1.34) id BAA06701; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 01:11:31 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: anarch@mail.scruznet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 01:13:23 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: anarch@scruznet.com (Anarch) Subject: Re: anti-rave home page... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Heh...does anyone know if the Bay Area Anti-Rave Front (BAARF) is still around? I used to know a bunch of them. anarch@scruznet.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 03:08:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id DAA25533; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 03:08:45 -0800 Received: from Steam.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id DAA25526; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 03:08:40 -0800 Received: (from buvac@localhost) by Steam.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.1) id DAA10151; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 03:08:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 03:08:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199604021108.DAA10151@Steam.Stanford.EDU> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Cc: duskop@cogs.susx.ac.uk, amit@tang.bdti.com, markie@wicked.com From: buvac-lists@cs.Stanford.EDU Subject: a moral concern Reply-to: buvac@cs.Stanford.EDU Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I am promoting a party. This is my first one. It has been very enjoyable so far. I think I like promoting. I am excited to have people come together and have a lot of fun. Etc. But there is one thing that worries me. I have seen and heard of many people going down due to drug abuse. It is not the case that I am against drugs. I am sure they can be very nice :) And have positive effects. But some people overdo drugs; or let drugs take over their lives. Some think that house music and drugs go hand in hand. Does that make me, as a house promoter, directly or indirectly responsible for the terrible effects that drugs can sometimes have on a person's life? For when organizing a party I feel that I am, at least in some way, responsible for the well-being of my guests. I would feel terrible if someone got hurt at my party. Or if my party contributed to the demise of their life. Thanks and peace and love v SASA (pronounced Sasha) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 06:06:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id GAA10074; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 06:06:45 -0800 Received: from netcom18.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id GAA10058; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 06:06:30 -0800 Received: by netcom18.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id GAA05871; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 06:06:25 -0800 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199604021406.GAA05871@netcom18.netcom.com> Subject: Re: UnDrugged To: knegtel@horatio.ucsf.EDU (Ronald Knegtel) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 06:06:24 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9604011857.ZM28160@horatio.ucsf.edu> from "Ronald Knegtel" at Apr 1, 96 06:57:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 273 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Recently, Ronald Knegtel asked: > How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? > Catnaps in the chill room or some semi-clean area with minimum foot traffic. Relaxing every once and awhile. And - GOOD MUSIC ! Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 07:13:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id HAA15899; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 07:13:38 -0800 Received: from fish.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA15891; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 07:13:35 -0800 Received: (from moonpup@localhost) by fish.hooked.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA02064; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 07:13:35 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 07:13:35 -0800 From: Milton Cecil Message-Id: <199604021513.HAA02064@fish.hooked.net> To: sddpw@sirius.com, DJ Hardware , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Best DJ survey's suck Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I would like to add my .02 %..........I met Kioki once at the Gilligans 2 gig in La (about 4 years ago) and the first words out of his mouth were........(i kid you not)....... HI, I'M KIOKI.....I'M GAY YOU KNOW......!!!!!!!! WHAT A POMPOUS ASS..........first of all, I don't go around stating ......I'm moonpup, I'm straight you know, or, do I have respect for a person who anounces themseves followed by there own impression of them selves.........(I'M SUPERSTAR DJ KEOKI) As far as I'm concerned, he could'nt spin his way out of a paper bag, I get sick of frauds like this claiming to be the essence of the house scene...........sorry but as long as people go to see a jerk like that perform, the scene will have problems taking itself seriously as a world wide movement..........I for example, may have never made the "A" list of DJ's, but was always top of the "B" list........ .........I still can't believe that I have to go to the UK to be taken seriously as a Proffesional DJ, and posse's like wicked etc.......have yet to ever hire my ass once......(in 4 years).........I used to get frustrated, and angry, and I self imploded, but now I just go with the wind, and see what happens, I know I'm not Jeno, or Garth, or Thomas ,or Markie, or Doc, etc........but I have rocked too many people to not know I have a talent....don't get me wrong, I love the wicked DJ's MUSIC, in fact I have been inspired many times over by the talents and tunes these boys can play, I just don't agree with there exclusionary politics. Unless THEY deem you to be a SUPERSTAR DJ, who can bring $$$ accross the door........(with all due respect to jeno, garth, thomas , and markie, sorry guys, I had to say it.....) but I will never be SUPERSTAR DJ MOONPUP........yuk just the thought alone.... .........cringes my nerves..............I hope to still be considered one of the talents of our community, (hell, I'm going to the UK to be considered a talent anywhere)....... San Francisco, (promoters especially) I hope you are listening.........treat up and coming talent with more respect..........don't allow a Keoki to come in and be the "superstar"..........I can list 20 NEW DJ's from the Bay area, who could kick keoki's ass (musically speaking of course) Do I sound bitter ? probably........but if you get treated with no respect by promoters in your own home base........and yet they pull out the red carpet for a loser (yes I said loser) like keoki...........It makes you wonder..........about all the love and PLUR we talk about...........aren't we full of shit when superstars are amonst us......... by the way when I heard SUPERSTAR play, he was sloppy in the mix and rude to boot I feel that all of the audiences (excluding the taggers) and all the struggling Dj's and all the people who set up sound systems, and promote with the right vibe in mind, as well as the people who create the alters.....are the SUPERSTARS......I'm lucky to be invited. people like gateway systems, FnF, Santa Cruz Joint productions, (raindance), even way back when.....wicked, new moon posse, sunsets, etc.....these are the superstars.......no ego needed........or applied for....... and Kioki if your listening.........check your butt at the door......say no more..... (oh and practice a little more) if you want my respect.........non-superstar dj moonpup.. ..........oh I'm special you know.......#$%*(^^yuk%@#$^%&yuk%^(%^*&yuk%*&^%^*) remember without us the audience........KEOKI is a nothing (as far as I'm concered even with an audience, keoki is a no talent blaggard........) nuff said moonpup >EXACTLY!! > >One of the very many things I love about house/rave culture is that it is >not a bunch of slack mouthed people all facing one way staring at some >stage for an hour and then everyone go home. It's about being yourself and >a place where EVERYONE is the show, not just some yahoo who got mega pr $$ >through a record label. (see the quote about Keoki following. For those of >you who don't know, super DJ Keoki slept his way to the top. It was not >based on his talent, which people realize once they actually hear him live. >He was shagging the owner of the label.) > >I do think it is important for DJs to get their names out because we want >to know the artists we identify with. The music of the underground scene >is just as much about the DJs personality and style as it is about the >genre(trance, deephouse, progressive, etc.) I just think it is sad when >some DJs and also club kids/ravers lose sight of that and bring that whole >"rock star" mentality to a scene it does not belong. > >I know this is a basic repeat of what is said below, but I feel so strongly >about this, I just had to squak for a paragraph or two. > >peace....arkay >>> > Moonshine music is looking for the best american DJ to press their next >>> > mixed CD.. send me emails as to whom you think should be featured!!.. >>> >>> Best DJ??????? What kinda Superbowl shit is this? Its bad enough that we >>> have vain sellout DJs like Keoki to label themselves a Super-DJ and bring >>> a rock star image to a supposed anti-establishment scene. Now this, a >>> best DJ competition. Lets go out and find the best grain of sand or lets >>> go out and look for the best blade of grass. >>> >>> Or better yet, lets come up with the BEST MARKETING SCHEME we can use to >>> sell the public a CD that, like it or not, represents the best DJ in the >>> country. >>> >>> Best DJ, we dont need no steenkin' best DJ. >>> >>> -Abiel Perfectly Put!!!! >> AMEN!!! DJ HARDWARE From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 07:47:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id HAA19011; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 07:47:33 -0800 Received: from ea.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA19003; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 07:47:30 -0800 Received: from pcsmtp2.ea.com (eac00eas1.ea.com [159.153.94.37]) by ea.com (8.6.6.Beta9/8.6.6.Beta9) with SMTP id HAA27979; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 07:46:59 -0800 Received: by pcsmtp2.ea.com with Microsoft Mail id <3161512F@pcsmtp2.ea.com>; Tue, 02 Apr 96 08:09:19 PST From: "Davis, Bryan" To: sfraves-owner , sfraves Subject: Chrysalis Date: Mon, 01 Apr 96 13:16:00 PST Message-ID: <3161512F@pcsmtp2.ea.com> Encoding: 17 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I must say Chrysalis was a great party! The dj's were great, especially James Dee. I got there kinda early and was thinking i would be bored till later on when everything got moving...but it was great right from the start. The chill room was probably one of the best ones i have seen in a LONG time....they did a great job! The space was cool, but it felt like i was in a great huge sauna later on in the evening.......but all in all it was a great party. Say, has anyone ever heard of James Dee? I hope to see him at more parties... Bryan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 08:06:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA20705; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 08:06:50 -0800 Received: from pasteur.EECS.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA20698; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 08:06:47 -0800 Received: from [128.32.192.226] (ch053.Chance.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.192.226]) by pasteur.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.11/8.6.4) with SMTP id IAA07784 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 08:06:40 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 08:06:47 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: ginsberg@uclink4.berkeley.edu (David Ginsberg) Subject: Toward a Science of Consciousness - Tucson Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Hello all, I'm going out to Tucson for the "Toward a Science of Consciousness" conference next week and I'm wondering if anyone else from the list is planning on going or if anyone knows anything at all about fun things to do in Tucson (a party would be ideal!). I'm leaving on friday... peacelovejoy, David ****************************************************************************** David Ginsberg Student of Cognitive Science and the Human Condition University of California, Berkeley ginsberg@uclink4.berkeley.edu http://www.geopages.com/athens/2001 For the benefit of all sentient beings... ; ) **************************************************************************** ** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 08:38:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA24585; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 08:38:11 -0800 Received: from igate1.hac.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA24579; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 08:38:08 -0800 From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com Received: from EDEN1.HAC.COM by igate1.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10278; Tue, 2 Apr 96 08:35:14 PST Received: from DECNET-MAIL (SCRUTON@JOYCE) by EDEN1.HAC.COM (PMDF V4.3-13 #5884) id <01I325YZB7ZK001LZ6@EDEN1.HAC.COM>; Tue, 02 Apr 1996 08:37:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 08:37:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: NON-RAVE Re: MIDI files To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-Id: <01I325YZDD5E001LZ6@EDEN1.HAC.COM> X-Vms-To: EDEN1::IN%"sfraves@hyperreal.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: gawd, sound like a parrot: ME TOO! i'm looking for some nice drum/percussion MIDI trax; i can do instruments, but the rhythm is my main weakness as far as writing goes Dave Scruton From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 08:52:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA26550; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 08:52:18 -0800 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA26540; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 08:52:15 -0800 Received: from [206.15.64.135] (sf-tty36-ppp.well.com [206.15.64.135]) by mh1.well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA20849 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 08:51:46 -0800 X-Sender: leftjab@mail.well.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 08:55:28 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: leftjab@well.com (leftjab) Subject: random chrysalis thoughts Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: it was an interesting night for me, a little different introspective experience than I've had before, so this is a little random . . . i'll always have a soft spot for chrysalis since it was my first back in December, but they never fail to blow me away with their total transformation of their space. the very high ceilings allowed for some trippy visuals, the ambient/chill room soothed and beguiled as always, and the place -- way too nice to be disrespected by tagging -- was made for loud music and dancing. the kaleidoscope was joined by an identical cousin (courtesy of a non(pre?)-rave friend) and a new red space tube -- thank you marty for taking good care of it during my wanderings : ) after my self-reflective period, i was brought back to earth by some nice hugs, and then I surfed my second wave until sunrise. i found my legs in the last half-hour, and the music at the end, with the sunlight filtering through (very early, time for daylight savings this weekend! spring forward and enjoy!) was enervating. There was a great vibe when the music stopped, the wall-coverings were thrown down, the sunlight streamed in, and everyone cheered and clapped. I had to wait to drive some people, and cleaned up and hung around for at least a half-hour after, not ready to leave. [New theory for "rave drek" -- sticky wet event fliers! When a pile gets soaked with smoothies, it leaves this bizarre grey residue. And IF YOU CHEW GUM, PUT IT IN PAPER AND THROW IT OUT! ] there were so many of you who i met that listing (and remembering) all the names is futile -- just thank you all! I'm probably going to lay fairly low next weekend and save my energy for Harmony -- see you there = ) leftjab (Jonathan) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 09:10:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA28582; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:10:56 -0800 Received: from igate1.hac.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA28576; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:10:54 -0800 From: SCRUTON@JOYCE.dnet.hac.com Received: from EDEN1.HAC.COM by igate1.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12589; Tue, 2 Apr 96 09:08:01 PST Received: from DECNET-MAIL (SCRUTON@JOYCE) by EDEN1.HAC.COM (PMDF V4.3-13 #5884) id <01I3274Z0174001NAM@EDEN1.HAC.COM>; Tue, 02 Apr 1996 09:10:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 09:10:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: adbusters To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-Id: <01I3274Z1N2Q001NAM@EDEN1.HAC.COM> X-Vms-To: EDEN1::IN%"sfraves@hyperreal.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: without tipping any hats, are any of the peeple who did the am i dead yet? camel thang on the list? Dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 09:18:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA29401; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:18:52 -0800 Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA29391; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:18:47 -0800 Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id JAA18531; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:19:45 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199604021719.JAA18531@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Teknival USA (forward) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:19:45 -0800 (PST) Cc: socal-raves@ucsd.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: This all looks cool except for the "quitting your job" part. Send comments or questions to darrin@cea.edu... not me! ------ GENERATION OV NOISE TEKNIVAL USA '96 The ever growing world of death culture is catching up with us and the time for exodus is soon. The only way to grow is to expand beyond the boundaries of what we know into the uncharted areas of the unknown. The unknown being the only source of new knowledge. Our life support systems on this planet are organic. To regenerate cell walls, divide and multiply - old barriers fall away, ancient pillars crumble and new structures stand up in their turn. One generation gives birth to the next. The old gives life to the new. We live in the ever transitional moment connecting past through present to future. It is our mission to discover the ever changing horizon. To continually re-establish new parameters and to explore and secure each new level as we find it. It is our purpose to destroy the inertia that has been responsible for the demise of our lifeforce on our Planet. It is time to wake the Planet UP! We - The Generation ov Noise - using technology, combined with organic life systems deliver a massive jolt to Human sensory circuits, providing the extra energy input needed to make the Quantum leap from Terrestial Consciousness to Extra Terrestrial Consciousness. (Taken in part from spiral tribe 23 "techno terra" ...Modified for G.O.N.) Havoc and Mayhem shall occur on American soil in '96... This is a call to all sound systems and people to come and annihilate the land of the so called "free"... We request your presence, attendance and participation in the travelling free festival. All are welcome and none shall be turned down. The states are in need of some TRUE anarchy and chaos...there are 9 dates being planned out...all sound systems, DJs, bands, vehicles, firstaid, mobile kitchens, hackers, promoters, live acts, vendors, and general PEOPLE POWER are requested... no egos, just one huge agGrow tribe, we need your help to create a fire in the american underground. NO COMPROMISE -- NO COMPROMISE -- NO COMPROMISE YES we could spend more time trying to secure the neccesary permits and going thru the proper channels and avoiding unpleasant friction - but this would only dilute the required intensity and vibrational quality of our gatherings - the only permit we need to gather is the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. We know what we are doing - We know how it needs to be done. Our so called "leaders" and "authorities" have had their chance and have basically failed to impress. We have the knowledge. We have the resources. We are now taking control of our destiny and will accept nothing less. We are tired of clueless, powermad control freaks wasting our time. We are a true and Positive Life Culture --- The Death Culture seeks to repress us because we threaten it's existence and power structure. It's time to establish our rightful place on this planet. ----------------------NO COMPROMISE-------------------------------- OUR GOALS FREE THE LAND... The vast plains, forests, and other wildlife areas are being Hoarded by dominating and selfish individuals and groups who have little interest in the health and well being of our habitat, as well as the habitat of other living beings. We have every right to reclaim and commune with our Mother Earth... NO COMPROMISE! FREE OUR MINDS... We respect no "authority" which attemps to regulate our state of consciousness. We will alter our minds in any way we see fit at any time with any plant, substance, dance or meditation that we choose... NO COMPROMISE! FREE OUR PARTIES... Our Gatherings are sacred to us. NO individual or group will insult or disrespect us by disturbing or attempting to control our parties. Our parties are spiritual... NOT commercial. FREE OUR FREEDOMS... The ridiculous and unreasonable laws that are attempting to control our movements and basic human rights are disrespectful to us -- their sole purpose is to alienate us from one another -- We will show no respect to those laws or anyone attempting to enforce them... NO COMPROMISE! OUR TOOLS FOR CHANGE ARE --MUSIC--DANCE--LOVE--MAGIK-- THE COMMITMENT ONE MUST TAKE TO SERVE THIS EXCURSION INTO FREEDOM AND CHAOS 1. THEE JOB... Stop thinking about it...DO IT! Quit your job. Quit your life - start anew... You must undertake this death of your responsibility to the system. You can not take part in the system and survive this trip at the same time.. To endure this mission you must drop out of their way to form your own...NO COMPROMISE! 2. THEE MENTAL STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS... To control your freedom to ingest chaotic chemistry you must know when not to over indulge and when to blow your mind. You must know the times to do and not to do. You must at all times know how to take care of yourself and others. 3. THEE INDIVIDUAL... There are none. This is a synergy of many. This has to be a close knit family. Everyone must come prepared to take care of themselves, and be prepared to take care of others. Everyone is a Family. 4. THEE COMMERCE... If you want to spend money and make money, then barter, sell, trade on your own accord. If you are a vendor selling food...It is advised that you give some of your wares to those who are needy. TENTATIVE DATES AND LOCATIONS This information is completely subject to change and will definitely mutate depending on contacts made in the local areas. If you know of good sites in these general areas PLEASE become involved. Information will be updated constantly. Please pass this info on...print it out to those without internet access...spread the word.. with your help IT will happen! Party seekers should stay in touch with all available info outlet right up to the last minute.....1-800 # coming soon.. G.O.N. Spring initialization FOOD NOT BOMBS' SOUPSTOCK San Francisco, Ca - Sat. April 27th - 12noon-? Free food, sound system, bands, info - Golden Gate Park Bandshell all gatherings listed here are intended to last all weekend FRIDAY MAY 31st -- CENTERAL OREGON FRIDAY MAY JUNE 7th -- SEQUOIA NATIONAL PARK - SOUTHERN, Ca FRIDAY JUNE 14th -- ARIZONA -- TUSCON AREA FRIDAY JUNE 21th -- TEXAS -- AUSTIN AREA --national rainbow gathering, ozarks-- FRIDAY JULY 12th -- NEW HAMPSHIRE FRIDAY JULY 26th -- TORONTO AREA, CANADA FRIDAY AUGUST 2nd -- DREAMTIME VILLAGE, WI. FRIDAY AUGUST 16th --BOULDER AREA, CO FRIDAY AUGUST 23rd -- (Burning Man) PYRAMID LAKE, NEVADA Disclaimer...ANY PERSON IS FREE TO RE-INTERPRET, RE-MIX, OR ADD TO THIS CHARTER IF IT IS FOR NON-COMMERCIAL USE. CHARTER Jack Acid, Dj Aquarius, Dj Sunflowerfish, Liquid Acrobat Rebecca, Fawn FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT D*struct Media 1-800-351-ACID S.P.A.Z. (415) 522-2398 (voice mail) 1-800-484-6370 ext.6682 (nova) Drop Bass Network (414)224-5343 Freebass Collective (Milwaukee) (414)256-1350 INTERNET CONTACTS darrin@cea.edu http://www.cea.edu/shakti spaz@hyperreal.com http://www.basenet.net/~stevvi/skreem.htm http://www.sirius.com/~accompli/df.html *POLITICAL REVOLUTIONS THAT DO NOT FOLLOW AN ORGANIC TERRESTRIAL -COSMIC SPIRITUAL VISION, WILL END UP IN MORE PATRIARCHAL DEATH... Monica Sjoo and Barbara Mor ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 09:20:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA29539; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:20:38 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA29534; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:20:35 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA13827 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:20:32 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA17152; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:20:30 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA26199; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:20:30 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:22:11 -0800 To: James Ausman From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: making assumptions Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Jim, Again I find myself in agreement with you. Our prehistoric ancestors didn't have the possessive concerns that contaminate modern societies. The indigenous people of this hemisphere pretty much believed in owning just what you can carry (and maybe some horses), and similarly weren't that concerned with private property, especially areas of land. The great power which created this world on which we live made us custodians, not overlords. More people need to share a vision similar to ours, that it is better for a greater number of people to share rather than to keep some things from others. I felt it sufficiently relevant to post this to the whole list, as I encourage everyone's feedback. As long as it harm no one, do what you will! - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 09:34:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA00919; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:34:47 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA00911; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:34:40 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA14720 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:34:39 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA18568 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:34:40 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA29419 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:34:37 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:36:17 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: UnDrugged Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >>How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? > > > >Those times I've done parties sober, I will usually have a cup of coffee or >two before going out, and I've not yet had any problems keeping awake. This >is usually because the energy of the party is often so intense that I don't >feel like I need food or sleep at all anyway! I've experienced this several >times, it's a stupendous feeling. The energy just gets to me, imbues me with >what feels like an unlimited supply of get-up-&-go! So that's how I do it, >anyway, don't know about others! Maybe some take an hour off or so to nap in >the middle of it in the chill room. > >Shawna That's it! Pure VIBE!!! I haven't tried it yet, but at some point I'm going to experience a party and let the vibe itself sustain me. I fully expect it to be a warm, surreal, and fun sensation, surely enough to inspire dancing feet, embracing arms, and a smiling face :) I know I can't depend on caffeine, because it hardly ever affects me noticeably, except to make my heart do some pretty frightening things :O - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 09:38:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA01470; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:38:10 -0800 Received: from tuna.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA01465; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:38:05 -0800 Received: (from moonpup@localhost) by tuna.hooked.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA19821; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:38:09 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:38:09 -0800 From: Milton Cecil Message-Id: <199604021738.JAA19821@tuna.hooked.net> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Waynes Party Tapes (BSP) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: O.K. I finally have the Original Dat and can make tapes for those of you that were at waynes party (fri feb 2nd 1996).......my set will be on a maxell 110 min tape (XLII) many have asked me about that particular triphop set......it's now available....for $10 each.....this tape will not be available at Ameba.....personal orders only...... e-mail or call moonpup.......415-337-6666 these tape sales are to help finance my trip to the u.k. & to purchase more music to ultimately make tapes.......thanx From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 09:45:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA02683; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:45:19 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA02675; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:45:15 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA15289 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:44:55 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA19409; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:44:56 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA01592; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:44:52 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:46:33 -0800 To: Brenda Brewer From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: Paging Vince Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >yes, vince is beautiful! i miss you vince...when are you coming up to OR? >sorry we couldn't spend more time together at wayne's party. wayne may be >up here april 27 or so with chrysalis folk. how 'bout you? > >eric: you are meeting some really groovy, loving people... > >bren :) > You know it, Bren! I can hardly contain myself, and it's such a joy to be among this ever-growing circle that it greatly diminishes my feeling of being alone, which used to consume me... Harmony is the key My sister and brother! - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 10:07:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA05242; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:07:23 -0800 Received: from cctgate-ext.cctech.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA05233; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:07:19 -0800 Received: from cct2.cctech.com ([192.9.200.1]) by cctgate-ext.cctech.com (8.6.11/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA26127; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:06:07 -0800 Received: from cct40.cctech.com by cct2.cctech.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03719; Tue, 2 Apr 96 10:06:00 PST Received: by cct40.cctech.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08090; Tue, 2 Apr 96 10:06:00 PST From: mikel@cctech.com (Mike Lasmanis) Message-Id: <9604021806.AA08090@cct40.cctech.com> Subject: Re: Best DJ survey's suck To: moonpup@mailhost.hooked.net (Milton Cecil) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:05:59 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com (SFRaves List) In-Reply-To: <199604021513.HAA02064@fish.hooked.net> from "Milton Cecil" at Apr 2, 96 07:13:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 648 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: my $0.02... Milton Cecil writes: > As far as I'm concerned, he could'nt spin his way out of a paper bag, I get > sick of frauds like this claiming to be the essence of the house > scene........... hurray! someone else who can't stand this jerk. :-) > .........I still can't believe that I have to go to the UK to be taken > seriously as a Proffesional DJ, and posse's like wicked etc.......have yet > to ever hire my ass once......(in 4 years) all i can say is their loss. :-( hugs mike -- Mike Lasmanis | "The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeing mikel@cctech.com | new landscapes but in having new eyes." Marcel Proust From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 10:07:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA05314; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:07:57 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA05308; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:07:54 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA16603 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:07:52 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA21696; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:07:50 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA06343; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:07:50 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:09:31 -0800 To: buvac@cs.Stanford.EDU From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: a moral concern Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >I am promoting a party. This is my first one. It has been very >enjoyable so far. I think I like promoting. I am excited to have >people come together and have a lot of fun. Etc. > >But there is one thing that worries me. I have seen and heard of many >people going down due to drug abuse. It is not the case that I am >against drugs. I am sure they can be very nice :) And have positive >effects. But some people overdo drugs; or let drugs take over their >lives. > >Some think that house music and drugs go hand in hand. Does that make >me, as a house promoter, directly or indirectly responsible for the >terrible effects that drugs can sometimes have on a person's life? >For when organizing a party I feel that I am, at least in some way, >responsible for the well-being of my guests. I would feel terrible if >someone got hurt at my party. Or if my party contributed to the >demise of their life. > >Thanks and peace and love > > v >SASA (pronounced Sasha) The way I see it, Sasa, as the host, you should be concerned for the guests' well-being, but you're not expected to personally take care of everyone. It just can't be done. You are not responsible for what people choose to do to themselves. Ostensibly, the party is a dance, so how are you to know whether people are sitting around playing cards or shooting heroin? The music stands for itself, and doesn't go hand-in-hand with drugs any more than any other form of music (I've been to Grateful Dead shows and been sober the whole time...and had a blast, I might add!). Just do what you can to make sure the best kind of a good time is extended to all. That's what it's all about, right? Peace and good luck to you, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 10:21:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA06604; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:21:47 -0800 Received: from gatekeeper.bankamerica.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA06594; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:21:44 -0800 Received: by gatekeeper.bankamerica.com; id AA19402; Sun, 31 Mar 1996 10:21:47 -0800 Received: by iwww.bankamerica.com; id AA05854; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:22:51 -0800 Received: by mailhub.bankamerica.com; Tue, 2 Apr 96 10:17:07 -0800 X400-Received: by /c=US/admd=attmail/; Relayed; 02 Apr 96 10:17:05 -0800 X400-Received: by mta BofA-MTA in /c=US/admd=attmail/; Relayed; 02 Apr 96 10:17:05 -0800 X400-Mts-Identifier: [/c=US/admd=attmail/; 0051831616F21001-attmail] Content-Identifier: 0051831616F21001 Content-Return: Allowed X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 ( 2 ) Conversion: Allowed Conversion-With-Loss: Allowed Priority: normal Disclose-Recipients: Prohibited Alternate-Recipient: Allowed X400-Originator: Michael.Minnich@BankAmerica.com X400-Recipients: non-disclosure; Message-Id: <04029610170900130900.bankamerica.com> Date: 02 Apr 96 10:17:05 -0800 From: Michael To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: another terrifying intro Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Alright, as long as we're all posting intros, I may as well step up to the mic. I've been lurking on the list all of four or five days now, but I'm certainly no stranger to this whole thing. I just moved out to San Francisco from Washington DC about five months ago and have been totally enjoying the party scene here, which I knew I would. Some of you may remember me on the net from my old (still functional) email address, inhuman@mindvox.phantom.com. I used to do the weekly calendar for NE-Raves back in the day, about two and a half years ago. And I've even popped into San Francisco a couple of times over the past few years, even luckily falling into attendance at Connection II. So I know I've met some of you old timers before, but I've hardly met any sfravers since I've officially moved here. If any of you are planning on coming to that Sunday night thing at Cafe Abir (Divis & Fulton) that Joe Rice posted about, look for me, because I live right across the street and I certainly plan on being there every Sunday. I'm short with short brown hair and fly clothes. ;) Anyway, maybe I'll meet some of you at those structured sf-raves events. inhuman@east.coast.flava From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 10:29:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA07234; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:29:19 -0800 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA07221; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:29:15 -0800 Received: from [153.36.85.109] (Cust45.Max6.Santa-Clara.CA.MS.UU.NET [153.36.85.109]) by mh1.well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA04206; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:28:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199604021828.KAA04206@mh1.well.com> X-Sender: crunch@mail.well.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:30:09 +1000 To: Fork8@aol.com From: crunch@well.com (John Draper) Subject: Re: GG park? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >Anyone go to GG park on saturday? How was it? I heard there were some >mishaps. -FK Major problems with the sound. Too much dust, whatever, so it kept getting cut-off and attempts to "patch" it failed, but I commend those working on it for keeping the tunes going while working on it. Crunchman From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 10:30:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA07303; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:30:02 -0800 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA07280; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:29:58 -0800 Received: from [153.36.85.109] (Cust45.Max6.Santa-Clara.CA.MS.UU.NET [153.36.85.109]) by mh1.well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA04184; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:28:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199604021828.KAA04184@mh1.well.com> X-Sender: crunch@mail.well.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:30:02 +1000 To: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) From: crunch@well.com (John Draper) Subject: Re: Bad Signs Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >[ to sfraves mailist ] > >In "honor" of the recent Lucky Charms fiasco , I thought I'd start a >new topic thread: > >Signs Of A Bad Rave > Some signs that might indicate that the rave may not turn out well: > Usually, the size of the flyer is inversly preportional to the quality of a rave. Crunchman From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 10:39:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA08570; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:39:02 -0800 Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA08550; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:38:58 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id KAA04842; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:38:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199604021838.KAA04842@netcom20.netcom.com> To: "San FranDisco Ravers List" Subject: Re: Best DJ survey's suck In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Apr 96 10:05:59 PST." <9604021806.AA08090@cct40.cctech.com> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 10:38:59 -0800 From: "Niels P. Mayer" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: gee, this is so much fun, i suggest we get a scapegoat-dj-of-the-month and diss him while claiming to be positive about everything else. that way, you can channel all your negativity towards your scapegoat chakra. (or you can just realize that positivity/negativity are yin/yang and deal with it...)... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 11:40:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA16805; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:40:42 -0800 Received: from well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA16594; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:40:19 -0800 Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA01780; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:39:59 -0800 From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9604021139.ZM1777@well> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:39:58 -0800 In-Reply-To: Milton Cecil "Re: Best DJ survey's suck" (Apr 2, 7:13am) References: <199604021513.HAA02064@fish.hooked.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: Milton Cecil , sddpw@sirius.com, DJ Hardware , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Best DJ survey's suck Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Aww Moonpup, quit feelin' sorry for yerself dood! I have here the instant road to Supahstah DJ success for ya, and it ain't gonna cost ya one thin dime. SO -- consider the price of the advice, check yer self-respect at the door, and MOON the audience at the beginning, middle and end of each set, and soon you too will be rising the ranks of the Supahstah DJs. Everyone's gotta have a gimmick to make it big on the scene. Like Sven Vath's haircut, your heiney will soon be on the cover of every slick DJ rag this side of the English Channel. Punters will crowd to the front to see the show so much they will build bleachers around the turntables just for your set! Soon, you'll be featured at Wembley and the Love Parade with Pink Floyd show-sized screens for the cheap seaters! Keoki will fight back by painting his hindside dayglo colors to match his hair but it won't matter!! You'll be the pioneer!!! Come see Supahstah DJ MOON Pup!!!! Rekkids? Mewzik? Who cares??!!! You could mix Donny & Marie into frog fart noises, for all the crowd cares . . . just don't forget to give 'em a SHOW!!!!! Sincerely, Yr Humble Promotional Consultant From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 11:41:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA17141; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:41:53 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA17119; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:41:47 -0800 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA29222; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:41:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kirstenc@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) id LAA22009; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:39:33 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:39:32 -0800 (PST) From: KaySEE Subject: Re: Disrespecting Locations To: Christopher Solle cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199604020153.RAA18586@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I just thought that I'd add something interesting to this topic. Grafitti is an old and historic occurance. When I was in my high school Latin class, I did a project on Roman grafitti. Some of what they know today about Latin came from ancient grafitti written on walls. Anyway, the mention of Roman ruins below made me remember my project. I *don't*, however, appreciate or condone disrespecting others' property and I find tagging ridiculous. anecdotes for the day, kc kirstenc@uclink.berkeley.edu .*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.* "Talk is cheap..." On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Christopher Solle wrote: > > Hats off to Leslie!!! Nothing makes me angrier than having to see someones > scribble all over someone elses car, house, or whatever. When I was last in > Europe I took a picture of these Roman Ruins with tag marks all over them! My > only thought was that the people who did this didn't have any knowledge about > their medium or respect for others who had yet to enjoy them. This isn't the > first time that this has happened at a rave and it won't be the last until we > educate these people. And please, don't tell me that taking these peoples pens > or spray cans away will stifle their freedom of speech just their self declared > freedom to masturbatorily scribble their names all over everything. > > Too busy dancin' to be taggin' > -Sunny > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 12:20:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA21602; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:20:54 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA21592; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:20:47 -0800 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA17434; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kirstenc@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) id MAA02674; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:19:14 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:19:13 -0800 (PST) From: KaySEE Subject: Sober Raving was Re: Hey, Lurkers! (yeah, you!) To: michal migurski cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, michal migurski wrote: > > So, what do y'all think? Do a lot of people party sober on a regular basis > or am I some kind of freek? > I like to party sober and let the music carry me away. Since my biological rhythm is not entrained to staying up all night, I often get tired. To remedy this I either 1) go home early 2)take ma huang (herbal energy) or 3) sleep for a bit and then go hard once again. I have been raving on such an irregular basis as of late, but when I was going out a bit more I found that with my increased knowledge and enjoyment of the music I could use the music as my "upper" and was not tired. There is a bit of "mind-over-matter" too. If I think I am going to be tired, I will be. But, if I don't think about it and think that I am not tired, I am usually not. Raving sober is a dear topic to me because I've seen too many of my friends focusing on the drugs. I am not trying to be self-righteous because I don't think that drugs are inherently bad, nor do I consider myself ignorant to their attraction. The United States is a drug culture. It has and will be. Drugs are symbolic with the fast-life. Their allure is strong. Not only do I think that ppl *shouldn't* limit themselves to amazing mind-opening experiences that some drugs offer, nor do I think that they should be the only gate to these experiences. Nor do I think they are a good remedy for "fitting-in" or improving your self esteem (alcohol is a good example of this). Anyway, I will cut this off right now as I see myself moving farther and farther away from the rave-relatedness of this topic. chau, kc From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 12:43:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA23858; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:43:17 -0800 Received: from itsa.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA23852; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:43:15 -0800 Received: (from jfogler@localhost) by itsa.ucsf.EDU (8.6.8/GSC4.24) id MAA215786; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:43:14 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:43:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jessica Fogler To: sfraves Subject: well supported Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Hi everyone, I have had such a tremendously loving batch of replys to my intro and plea for drug-free freakazoid rave partners. I want to thank all of you for letting me know that I'm not alone. I can be cynical sometimes about PLUR. I used to hang out in the grateful dead scene when I was into psychedelics (don't laugh, raves had hardly been invented back then!) and there was much talk of PLUR etc... I personally found people to be rather cliquey and quite indifferent to newbies or others who weren't part of their "family". I must say that the incredibly positive and supportive responses to my intro message have restored some of my faith in PLUR - concepts on which I base my every waking hour and which found much of my motivation to study medicine. So thank you all for your vibrant welcome. I'll post an e-mail when I want to go out so one of you can be my designated support person and introducer for the evening, then I should be launched. Love, Jess From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 13:36:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA28896; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:36:11 -0800 Received: from blob.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA28890; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:36:09 -0800 Received: from sjs400.cisco.com (astro-dhcp-174.cisco.com [171.68.195.174]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA03340; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:36:10 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960402213502.006a68bc@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: sjstokes@shellx.best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 13:35:02 -0800 To: Scott Stokes From: Scott Stokes Subject: Re: Lucky Charms??? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Did anyone go (or try to go) to Lucky Charms? I heard they had some problems > with the map point... like a riot or something? Can anyone who was there > tell the list what happened? > > I sort of think "it serves them right" for distributing a flier with > blatant drug references so widely... I bet they put them in shopping malls. > Of course this sort of promotion will attract a bad vibe. > > -troy > Are you sure that Lyon Securities got their $10 fee???? Sounds kinda like you got scammed.... Yes, the promoter who took my $30 handed one of the Lyon securities gaurds $10 of it. I know it was a Lyon gaurd, because I remebered him from several other parties, and used to have respect for him... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 14:22:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA04233; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:22:43 -0800 Received: from netcom21.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA04227; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:22:40 -0800 Received: by netcom21.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id OAA10553; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:22:36 -0800 From: darrele@netcom.com (Darrel Etter) Message-Id: <199604022222.OAA10553@netcom21.netcom.com> Subject: Body Electro at Bahia Wednesday???? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfraves) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:22:35 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 691 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I always ask this every month becuase when I call Bahia, they just don't know... Is Body Electro going on at Bahia Cabana again Wednesday night ( April 3rd)? I seem to remember seeing somewhere that Freaky Chakra is playing, but I can't find that info now. Anyone know the line up??? Last month it was Ecstatic minds ( filter sweeps and a well rosined bow go together very nicely), Planet 6 (ever smooth, dancable, and inovative, especially for just playing a bunch of cheap calculators and a flute :) ), Turbo Ted (gets you all stirred up like a loose tennis shoe in the dryer), and simone 3rd arm ( is shaking hands appropriate for this culture? ). Thanks, =Darrel darrele@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 14:29:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA04765; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:29:07 -0800 Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA04755; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:29:04 -0800 Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id OAA22021; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:28:38 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199604022228.OAA22021@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Re: Bad Signs To: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:28:37 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199604020152.RAA22685@netcom22.netcom.com> from "Larry Ching" at Apr 1, 96 05:52:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > > [ to sfraves mailist ] > > In "honor" of the recent Lucky Charms fiasco , I thought I'd start a > new topic thread: > > Signs Of A Bad Rave > Some signs that might indicate that the rave may not turn out well: > > 1. Flyering and/or posters near intermediate and high schools. > 2. Not so subtle drug references on promotional material. > 3. Promotion material way before the event. > 4. New or unknown promoters. > 5. Size of promo material greater than an index card. > 6. More than one DJ who is supposed to be playing somewhere else > that night. > 7. At least one DJ who's surprised at being listed to play! > 8. Unintelligible phone message. > 9. At the map point, they give you directions to a 2nd map point. 10. The background music for the voicemail is a Moby song. 11. They describe their location as a "A clean, comfortable location with it's own sound system.... in Palo Alto." 12. Nobody has said anything about it on sfraves. 13. The line for the guest list is longer than the line for ticket holders. 14. When you arrive at the remote, outdoor location, you see a lot of Confederate flags and kids with short haircuts and orange-lined jackets who keep telling your African-American and Asian friends "You know, I had a grandfather who faught in WWII, he was on the German side." (that could NEVER happen!) 15. One word: Ticketmaster. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 14:32:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA05222; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:32:55 -0800 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA05206; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:32:50 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA21846 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:32:53 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA06745 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:29:17 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:29:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199604022229.OAA06745@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Matt Lanier X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Has anyone heard from Matt Lanier lately? I've tried sending him a couple of messages and even calling him, but I get no response. In light of the message he sent out not long ago regarding his love life, I'm a tad worried. Any news? S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 14:57:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA07658; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:57:16 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA07653; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:57:12 -0800 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp051-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.51]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id OAA05762 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:57:14 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960402225646.006dd570@moon.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@moon.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 14:56:46 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Infinity 99 Subject: Re: Bad Signs Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >15. One word: Ticketmaster. actually, the first rave i ever went to was a big event in Toronto. Apart from being a little too large to meet anyone, it had a really great vibe and good djs. The security was very good, and the best part - Orbital "played" live. And tickets were sold at Ticketmaster. i suppose there are exceptions to every rule. brendan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 16:32:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA18528; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:32:36 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA18521; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:32:32 -0800 Received: from [128.32.205.206] (u2w37.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.205.206]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA28911; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:32:32 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:32:48 -0800 To: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: back Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >>And possibly tribal funk this friday... BTW is that supposed to be good? > >Yup! The last one was pretty darn good. Hope to see you there! cool... I tried to get into the last one, but my friend and I came too late, and we waited in that horrid line until our feet hurt and we decided it wasn't worth it... I was sitting there calculating how many $/hr of raving it would cost me as time ticked by. :) *Anyone else from the list going?* -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, t-shirts and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- My Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | ...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...| | -> but patience always helps. <- | | | | Michal Migurski | | (510) 664-1026 | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 16:42:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA19255; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:42:26 -0800 Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA19248; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:42:23 -0800 Received: from v-site by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id QAA00433; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:41:25 -0800 Message-ID: <3161C93E.5769@netcom.com> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 16:41:34 -0800 From: ameba Organization: ameba X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: mull foon??????? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Call for details: 415.750.9368 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 17:04:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA21282; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:04:03 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA21244; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:03:57 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA08276 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:03:15 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA29088; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:03:16 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA04548; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:03:13 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:04:55 -0800 To: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: back Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >*Anyone else from the list going?* > >-m. > Not only will I most likely never go to another Tribal Funk, but I advise everyone not to go. It's getting to be one of those big production numbers we've been talking about. It's kind of sad, because the first one I went to, at the Cow Palace, was wonderful (anyone remember the cat lady and the cat man?). The second one, advertised as an evening of "Nothin' but Love", was weird, and the few friends I found there didn't enjoy it much. The one high point was when two djs (was it Garth or Donald Glaude, or someone else?) spun on two turntables EACH! That was cool, but the rest of the party didn't do much for me, and I tried, Lord how I tried! If you're really hot to go, then I say go, but cautiously, with no expectations, and just experience it as you will. If you enjoy it, great! I want to hear about it. But if you don't, learn the lesson and avoid Tribal Funk. I missed the most recent one (a while back), but friends went, and didn't like it, so among some of us, it's unanimous... $.02 and more, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 17:16:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA22393; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:16:32 -0800 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA22388; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:16:30 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA07333 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:16:34 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA23238 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:12:52 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:12:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199604030112.RAA23238@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: Best DJ survey's suck X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >SO -- consider the price of the advice, check yer self-respect at >the door, and MOON the audience at the beginning, middle and end of each >set, and soon you too will be rising the ranks of the Supahstah DJs. YES! It's perfect! It's simple yet controversial, eye-catching with just a touch of the rebel. And it's how you got your name anyway, isn't it? You're already an expert. You've probably got mooning positions and techniques only dreamed of by us amateurs! >You could >mix Donny & Marie into frog fart noises, for all the crowd cares . . . >just don't forget to give 'em a SHOW!!!!! Actually, I think I'd pay good money to see you mix Donny and Marie into frog farts... S PS. That post killed me! hehe... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 17:25:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA23259; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:25:19 -0800 Received: from sweden.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA23254; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:25:16 -0800 Received: from [153.37.82.108] (pool044.Max3.Santa-Clara.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.82.108]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA24917 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:24:09 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:25:00 +0200 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: exodus@earthlink.net (Austin) Subject: Fwd: Re: Underground Responsibility Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Great to hear it clinton. Glad your still with us. Much love from/to S.F. Austin ------***Begin Forward ***----------------- >From: MEAD@uwplatt.edu >Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 12:59:54 -0600 (CST) >Subject: Re: Underground Responsibility >To: exodus@earthlink.net >MIME-version: 1.0 > >wow, austin. > >that's an incredible story about the girl you were dating! >oops, i was going to post this msg to the list but i guess >it's just going to you. darnit all! > > >i feel like this is totally what the spirit of rave has >to do with. making ppl feel good. and those are the vibes >i got from th SF scene! it isn't the same out here in the >midwest. but, about 2 yrs ago, i was really suicidal. >thinking back on it, i should have gone to some expensive therapy >and been on expensive drugs. then i kinda starting coming out >of it and when i was getting happier, i starting going to raves, >until i like who i am today and am a very mentally strong >person that considers himself a raver! > >boy this could be a really good thread to start. > >TESTIMONIALS FROM DISHEARTENED PPL TURNED RAVERS! > >film at 11:00! > > > >love always, >clinton > >612represent (darn that too.) > > >could you forward this to the list for me? thanks. __/-^-\__ <<<>>> `'\-*-/`' _@_/` ~\_e_/~ _G/ O ~\_Q_ ~\_8_| _9_ ~/ }} (*) < =99 /|\ (.)\, [#] ,/ }}\, \\ /| ~\/ \ _=3D=3D=3D___=3D=3D=3D_ // / \ /\/ // \\ / [___________] \\ \ / \ ~~ ~~ ~ ^ ^ ~~ ~ ~ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 17:58:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA26297; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:58:26 -0800 Received: from hopf.dnai.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA26279; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:58:17 -0800 Received: from wwmsilk (d-100.sj.dnai.com [198.68.140.100]) by hopf.dnai.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA28682 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:57:47 -0800 Message-ID: <3161DB2B.5679@dnai.com> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 17:58:03 -0800 From: slktonge Organization: Spider Web Designs X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0GoldB1 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Lurkers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >So, I would like to know who is out there in the audience! I was wondering >if you could do us all the favor of a quick post saying your name and hi, >just so we know who is out there, listening and thinking. I love you all! >- Nancy Hey, I think I'll take this opp to drop a line as to who I am... Yes, Yes, I am a "lurker" ... but most newbies are ... My name is Dave and I'm a MS NT Administrator at a local Milpitas company... I've only been to one Rave, but damn that was the time!!! Problem is living in the south bay and heading north for all the parties..... Hopefully I'll get to some more... Anyways, the big 2 5 birthday is coming up .... so I've better get with the scene before I'm too old to stay up all night ... Since we're doing a "lurker rousting", let's get some of you vets out there to help bring us newbies into the "group" .. I for one definately need some help in getting a clue ... So step up and make yourself REALLY useful!! Dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 18:06:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA27110; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:06:59 -0800 Received: from isis.source.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA27100; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:06:51 -0800 Received: by isis.source.net (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) id SAA12549; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:04:09 -0800 From: "anne petrie" Message-Id: <9604021803.ZM12545@isis.source.net> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:03:58 -0800 In-Reply-To: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) "Re: Best DJ survey's suck" (Apr 2, 5:12pm) References: <199604030112.RAA23238@shellx.best.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream), sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Best DJ survey's suck Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART-BOUNDARY=.19604021803.ZM12545.source.net" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: -- --PART-BOUNDARY=.19604021803.ZM12545.source.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Moonpup wrote recently: >Actually, I think I'd pay good money to see you mix Donny and Marie into frog farts... Just for the record: I've got three beautiful (see for yourself . . . attached gif.) tree frogs, and to the best of my knowledge they don't fart. ;) warmly, -- Anne Petrie 3rd Wave Solutions E-mail: anne@3ws.com Remember, if you breathe and persist anything is possible. --PART-BOUNDARY=.19604021803.ZM12545.source.net X-Zm-Content-Name: babylon.gif Content-Description: Gif Image Content-Type: image/gif ; name="babylon.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Zm-Decoding-Hint: mimencode -b -u R0lGODdhhABYAPcAAAAAAAICAgwMDExcLDVSMEx0UioyGCxIJEBwQDA6HCE6GBgsEC9OJhYg DDVaLhg0Dj5kRBAMCgYGBkhSKjRcOEBwTkZyVThkKi5YLBgmDgoKCh4yGAQEBAgICBIWDg4O DggSAjBUHBwsDhwwECBAHBAYBhAUBiBADhYwDBAiCAoYAixSKjZgKgocBEx8WCo4FDRYHDRg OiY4EhAmCCxAGDVEGCQ8FB00EChMGCxSGDpqRCpMIh4oDkhgJj5MJhw2DhIkDBgkCjxaJkZw R0BqQBQqCk5yKhQmDBQcCkpuLC1MFjpoOCIaEDJQIBAcCDpoLDVKHCIsEiA2FkZwPkxsLD5U KDhkNh88EEdyMERaIFB6Mi5MHB46DjRcKEBsLlB4VDRcIlp6KlmAMk5kJF58Mkh4NBYsDkZk 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1VIuTxB0fsgMEWaOQANsQE5/8ATTrhJ+ZGzjgDHuC9130UoFkcQlEPCucvTqDvJSQRwZYM5P rwh1EAKmjhImwF8nMDLkRlhLMTESTPUu/wENQABPb44KIPYdYQLjjXj2vE/74ciAT/We0Lxr jwM53xL8lVsQDsafsUYDIfJ+AgAbYGvmiAM9vxKtbuHNs4YP1kswke5O4gGLV1efT/VdId6E PjJzzvNGYT+u8ROzhQ2LtWS4zxk3Id5Q8zGaQfu58/gtMVv1/ADGT/UDL0vhu85AIR8lPA+Q ic8RhIwQlo80AR9X7kQuABklJZAbNnH3LLFI1+0nhVHydRFX058B9mPwguPp14/+UJICsi5L deEaOvbxA7H8IrFIAPFBwkAJAAweRJhQ4cKCCx0+PGjCRIkSC04sWACiRIoSExsapAhCgomP EE2eVDjQw0qCJVG+hAlR4sYFDyyOW9DRpcGZJmL+NDlQoAcJAoEGfehp58OBEzHaVJDToYQG GEssPRqzYIkOHzoUHZgVaEAAOw== --PART-BOUNDARY=.19604021803.ZM12545.source.net-- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 18:07:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA27138; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:07:03 -0800 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA27113; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:06:59 -0800 From: TKagnoff@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA02597; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:06:34 -0500 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:06:34 -0500 Message-ID: <960402210632_183592098@mail04> To: ginsberg@uclink4.berkeley.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Toward a Science of Consciousness - Tucson Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: who's going to be lecturing? -theron From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 18:30:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA29617; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:30:57 -0800 Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA29609; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:30:53 -0800 Received: from mail1.best.com (mail1.best.com [206.86.8.14]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA05420 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:36:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA19111 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:28:14 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA09999 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:24:39 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:24:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199604030224.SAA09999@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: Best DJ survey's suck X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Anne Petrie wrote: >Moonpup wrote recently: >>Actually, I think I'd pay good money to see you mix Donny and Marie into >frog farts... > >Just for the record: I've got three beautiful (see for yourself . . . attached They are quite beautiful! >gif.) tree frogs, and to the best of my knowledge they don't fart. ;) Um...even in the picture, you can see the look of strained concentration on this frog's face. Eating flies all day will give ya gas, y'know. Just cause they poot, doesn't mean they toot. Not real loud anyway. You gotta hold their tiny fannies reeeeeeaaaalll close to your ear, then be patient.... ;) S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 19:16:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA03889; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:16:16 -0800 Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA03884; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:16:13 -0800 Received: from (shawna-@wck-ca8-21.ix.netcom.com [204.31.231.85]) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA18137 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:12:45 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:12:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199604030312.TAA18137@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> From: shawna-@ix.netcom.com (Shawna McGourty) Subject: Re: Bad Signs To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >9. At the map point, they give you directions to a 2nd map point. >10. The background music for the voicemail is a Moby song. >11. They describe their location as a "A clean, comfortable location > with it's own sound system.... in Palo Alto." >12. Nobody has said anything about it on sfraves. >13. The line for the guest list is longer than the line for ticket holders. >14. When you arrive at the remote, outdoor location, you see a lot of > Confederate flags and kids with short haircuts and orange-lined jackets > who keep telling your African-American and Asian friends "You know, > I had a grandfather who faught in WWII, he was on the German side." > (that could NEVER happen!) >15. One word: Ticketmaster. Something that seems to be a recurring theme is having the map point at Your Mama's Cafe. So far, they're two for two. Lucky Charms, and a party I went to a while ago that was by far the worst rave I've ever been to! Guess out of superstition I'll stay away from parties where the map point's at Your Mama's Cafe! Shawna From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 19:27:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA04526; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:27:14 -0800 Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA04518; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:27:08 -0800 Received: from (shawna-@wck-ca8-21.ix.netcom.com [204.31.231.85]) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA24149 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:25:50 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:25:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199604030325.TAA24149@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> From: shawna-@ix.netcom.com (Shawna McGourty) Subject: Re: Best DJ survey's suck To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >Um...even in the picture, you can see the look of strained concentration on >this frog's face. Eating flies all day will give ya gas, y'know. Just >cause they poot, doesn't mean they toot. Not real loud anyway. You gotta >hold their tiny fannies reeeeeeaaaalll close to your ear, then be patient.... Is this what you do with your spare time, hold frog butts up to the side of your head for long periods of time in hopes that they will emit various bodily gasses for you?? LOL! Shawna From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 19:30:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA04728; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:30:38 -0800 Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA04721; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:30:34 -0800 Received: from v-site by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id TAA00932; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:29:42 -0800 Message-ID: <3161F0B2.7E46@netcom.com> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 19:29:54 -0800 From: ameba Organization: ameba X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Mull Foon TONIGHT!!!!!! IT'S ON!!!!!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Yes, it's true, Those guys at Raindance are puttin it on..... The place Panther, The dj's Carlos, Tracy and guests...... Ps Mark and I need a ride!!!! KICKS OFF AROUND 1 AM!!!!!! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 21:14:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA13523; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:14:08 -0800 Received: from mail.crl.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA13518; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:14:05 -0800 Received: from crl8.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA23974 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:10:27 -0800 Received: by crl8.crl.com id AA05633 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for sfraves@hyperreal.com); Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:01:53 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:01:53 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Ankrum To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Fight the Right March-NON-RAVE Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: **Disclaimer: What follows is Non-Rave** Hi All, Here's some info. on NOW's Fight the Right March, which is coming up April 14. Anybody want to join me under a "Ravers Against the Right" banner? :) Kathryn ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 16:16:49 -0500 From: The National Organization for Women To: now-march-list@now.org Subject: now-march-list Update with Confirmed Speakers >From the National Organization for Women Action Center: WHO: -- San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown -- NOW President Patricia Ireland -- Rev. Jesse Jackson, National Rainbow Coalition -- Dolores Huerta, United Farm Workers of America -- Eleanor Smeal, Feminist Majority -- Kate Michelman, National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League -- Gloria Steinem, feminist leader and author -- Bella Abzug, Women's Environmental and Development Organization -- Anna Padia, Coalition of Labor Union Women -- Mary Chung, National Asian Women's Health Organization -- Katie Quan, Union of Needletrades, Industrial & Textile Workers -- Paul Rockwell, Angry White Guys for Affirmative Action -- Lisa Tiger, Native American AIDS educator -- and nearly 600 endorsing national, state and local organizations, including the American Association of University Women, American Jewish Congress, Asian Pacific American Labor Alliance, Gray Panthers, Human Rights Campaign,Mexican American Legal Defense & Education Fund, National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, National Latinas Caucus, National Welfare Rights Union, Planned Parenthood Federation of America, YWCA of the USA (the full list can be seen on the Web at: http://www.now.org/issues/right/orglist.html) WHAT: Join in the Fight the Right March WHERE: San Francisco WHEN: SUNDAY, APRIL 14, 11 a.m. to 5 p.m. March assembly: 11 a.m.-1 p.m., Bay Street (between Franklin & Laguna) Step-off: 1 p.m. Rally: 2 p.m., Crissy Field at the Presidio From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 21:34:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA14771; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:34:03 -0800 Received: from chum.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA14761; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:34:00 -0800 Received: (from moonpup@localhost) by chum.hooked.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA06861; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:34:05 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:34:05 -0800 From: Milton Cecil Message-Id: <199604030534.VAA06861@chum.hooked.net> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: full moon Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: if anyone is going to the full moon from s.f. and has room for one more......I would love to go.....please call me at 415-337-6666......it is currently 9:30pm thanx moonpup From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 21:46:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA15492; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:46:13 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA15482; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:46:10 -0800 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp050-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.50]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id VAA03634 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:46:14 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960403054547.006eeba4@moon.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@moon.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 21:45:47 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Infinity 99 Subject: desert animals Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I just got the best rave item in the world - a camelbak. It's a small backpack that contains water, with a tube that leads out to your mouth, for those who haven't heard of them. I recommend this to anyone who doesn't want to interrupt their trance on the dance floor to go get more water.. :) This will now be my defining attire. If you see me with my camelbak, please come up and say hi! I'll tell you lots of stories about the great white north.. ;) and speaking of the desert, how many people are planning on going to Burning Man this year? I'm dying to go (my first time),, Let's organize a big caravan out! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 22:26:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA18153; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 22:26:12 -0800 Received: from chip.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA18144; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 22:26:09 -0800 Received: by chip.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.1) id WAA08436; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 22:26:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 22:26:14 -0800 (PST) From: Albert Chan X-Sender: ez006498@chip.ucdavis.edu To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Through the lurking glass Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: hello- I've been pulled through the lurking glass a few times in the year that I've been on the list. Nonetheless, I am reintroducing myself. I am a student at UC Davis, and time and distance have prevented me from frequent SFRaving. I rave mostly free of controlled substances, but have had many positive experiences in many different states of awareness. As far as going till morning is concerned, I rather enjoy napping at 140 bpm (the 2.3 Hz frequency approaches that observed in the brain during slow-wave sleep). Since I'm done with classes this quarter I hope to y'all a bit more now. cheers! -alberT From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 22:50:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA19789; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 22:50:27 -0800 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA19782; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 22:50:25 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA01040 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 22:50:31 -0800 Received: (datura@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA20637 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 22:46:57 -0800 From: Justin Cooper Message-Id: <199604030646.WAA20637@shellx.best.com> Subject: intro (fwd) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 22:46:56 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1511 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: hey... well i've been lurking for quite a while, maybe a year, i guess i've posted a few times in there, but i mostly subbed for the calendar and deleted the rest, mostly. i'm 22, live in berkeley, moved to cali a year and a half ago to try to land a tech job while i finished school...ended up getting a good job and so now am trying to find the time to finish my bachelors. i'd never been to a rave till i moved out to the bay area, although i knew i wanted to, i didn't live anywhere conducive to throwing a good one :) i still hadn't been to many until fairly recently, but i am digging the scene more and more as time goes on.. had my best experience yet last saturday at chrysalis, it completely (well and the L) blew my mind. i had been planning to go with a friend but was flaked on at the last minute, so i decided not to waste my $dozen and went alone. i liked the music at chrysalis more than any other rave i'd been to, can anyone help with telling me what you'd classify it as? whatever you'd call it, i couldn't help but dance till i thought i'd drop, rest a while watching the fine visuals then do it all again... the vibe was just incredible, so many smiles and introductions... oh, by the way, a description might be helpful, in case i met any of you, i have long brown hair, a stud in me nose, was wearing a trippy white-ish long sleeve shirt with an even stranger tshirt underneath. i rilly hope to meat more sf-ravers next time...until then ! justin aka datura From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 23:42:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA24227; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:42:16 -0800 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA24222; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:42:14 -0800 Received: from well (mh2o@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA16690; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:41:46 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:42:10 -0800 (PST) From: Maureen Garrett Subject: Re: Mull Foon TONIGHT!!!!!! IT'S ON!!!!!! To: ameba cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <3161F0B2.7E46@netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Speaking of the full moon...tomorrow night there is a total lunar eclipse visible in entirety to humans living in most of Africa, Europe, a bit of Greenland, and a bit of South America..also a bit of the Middle East. Here in Pacific Standard Time, the moon will rise while leaving the penumbra stage of the eclipse.. What a dance...the Sun, Earth and Moon....! --Maureen On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, ameba wrote: > Yes, it's true, Those guys at Raindance are puttin it on..... > The place Panther, The dj's Carlos, Tracy and guests...... > > Ps Mark and I need a ride!!!! > > KICKS OFF AROUND 1 AM!!!!!! > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 23:52:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA24960; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:52:10 -0800 Received: from netcom13.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA24955; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:52:08 -0800 Received: by netcom13.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id XAA15434; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:52:14 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:52:14 -0800 From: ephedra@netcom.com (ephedrina) Message-Id: <199604030752.XAA15434@netcom13.netcom.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfravers) Subject: Jumping on the delurk bandwagon Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I've been away from the list for a long time, so I thought I'd re-introduce myself, since I scarcely recognize any of the names I see posting anymore, and I'd love to get to know those of you I missed in my absence! I've been raving since high school in Santa Barbara, and when I moved up to Santa Cruz to come to school, I was amazed at the wonderful vibe and acceptance I found among sfravers and scruz geeks alike. I started on sfraves sometime in 1993, when I went to my first Friends and Family, which was small enough then to be held in a friend's garage... I spent practically every weekend after that at a different party for almost the next two years! There was nothing that made me more excited than hearing the dim whoom whoom whoom when I knew I was getting close to a good party. This June, for reasons I'm still not sure of, I decided it would be a really good idea to move to Chicago. I got a job, a great apartment, a boyfriend (someone I'd actually met at a halloween f&f!) and settled into my new place in Chicago. I even went to a couple parties out there, which were fun, but somehow lacking in the same wonderful giving vibe I've always found here. After three months, I came back and decided it was time to seriously work on finishing my biochem degree from ucsc. That's where I've been ever since, and I just haven't found the time lately to go out on weekends... that pre-med thing, you know. This Saturday was my last weekend of spring break, and I decided I *HAD* to get out, go somewhere, DANCE, SMILE, anything! I made a beeline for Organic in the park, and as soon as I came upon that crowd of *beaming* dancing funky dusty bouncing ravers I knew I was home. I can't believe I had forgotten what kind of energy that could give me. Anyway, I'm back, and hopefully back for good. It's so great to see how the extended family has gotten bigger, even in the few (very very long) months I was gone! I can't wait to see new smiles and new faces. love kia From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Tue Apr 2 23:57:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA25413; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:57:28 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA25400; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:57:13 -0800 From: Derek Chung Message-Id: <199604030757.XAA25400@taz.hyperreal.com> Subject: This Week's SFR Calendar! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (SF Raves) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:57:12 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves-calendar@hyperreal.com (SFR Calendar) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 15091 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I'm in a little hurry cuz I'm going out of town for the rest of the week, so all I'll say is that it's Wicked vs the Gathering this weekend... THE SFR CALENDAR http://www.hyperreal.com/raves/sf/calendar/gencal.cgi _________________________________________________________________ Upcoming Parties in the San Francisco Bay Area Friday, April 5th - _good_ fil latorre (dc), dave brock (chicago), drc, chris lum, andre lucero, ryno, chris lum, shoam, shiloh, marius, flux, abstract, david michael. 2 for $15. Advance tix at Soundworks. 21+, $10. 415.273.5431 Friday, April 5th - Tribal Funk Wedding Party Celebrating the marriage of Chris and Trina Donald Glaude, John Howard, Buck, Essence. $15. SF. 415.905.4476 Saturday, April 6th - Wicked Markie, Garth, Jeno, Thomas, Harvey (Ministry of Sound, London). 5 year Celebration 11pm-8am, 21+, $15. 174 King St, SF. 415.512.5713 Saturday, April 6th - the Gathering Tony, Josh, Jon Williams, Mei-Lwun, Spun, DJ Dan, David Holmes, Dr. Alex Patterson, Jonah Sharp, Joe Rice, Nick Philip, Darkhorse. 415.522.3994 415.905.9629 Friday, April 12nd - Spundae & Nation presents _Ultimatum_ Sven Vath, Jeno, Simon, Henrik, Markie. 11pm-7am, 21+. 1015 Folsom St, SF. 415.974.9389 Friday, April 12nd - _Harmony_ Graeme, Terry Mullan, Brandon, Trent, Jason, Greg, Dutch, Dionysus Dreams, Galen, Claire, Matt, Rob. Free water, fruit & other organic goodies. $10. south bay. 408.486.9591 408.450.3044 Saturday, April 13rd - Iner Sircle presents _A state of divinity!_ Tony, Mathew Gadfathr, Simon, Josh, John Howard, Rick Preston, Gerlando Piro, Gouracandra, Tracy, Shilo Maggi, Trent, Sen-Sei (NYC) live on keyboards, Derek Scott, Pat Allen, Larry. 415.520.1793 408.397.7793 Saturday, April 13rd - _Kundalini _ DJ Dan, Spun, Donald Glaude, Tony, Galen, Garth, Quest, Travis. 415.469.2056 510.944.7743 Saturday, April 13rd - _Over Abundant Joy_ Stylus, Eddie Odul, Dave Collins. 209.774.0580 Friday, April 19th - Club Universe, Pleasuredome, Valentine's Cafe & Virgin Megastore presents _Spin It!_ a benefit for the National Task Force on AIDS prevention and Asian AIDS Project Page Hodel, Joey Arbagey, Pete Avila, Blackstone, Jerry Bonham, DJ Chris, DJ Clay, Matthew Consola, Chili D., Anthony DJ, Downtown Donna, Dejay Durant, David Harness, Noel d. Juan, Anita Lofton, Ruben Mancias, Aaron O., Julius Perkins, Anthony Scott, Lily Tran. $8 advance tix at A Different Light and 177 Townsend and 973 Market #600 10pm-4am, 21+, $10. 177 Townsend, SF. Friday, April 19th - In Touch presents _All in the Family_ Dj Who (Balt), Dj Trance(LA), Donald Glaude, Jim Hopkins, Karizma, Dj Crust, Conrad. 510.433.7216 415.267.3916 Saturday, April 27th - Space Children presents _All Together Now_ Das, Binnie, Surge vs. Radley (2x4), Andre Lucero vs. Cesar (2x4), Corbin vs. Everett (2x4). 415.273.1622 408.327.9277 916.554.7177 Saturday, April 27th - _Kind Organic Phunk_ Josh, Utopia, Neil, Paul Q., Eathin. part of proceeds will go to Save the Headlands 2pm-11pm, $7. Chico. 916.224.0508 Saturday, June 1st - _Tribal Future Big Mountain Boogie_ Tony, Carlos, Josh, John Howard, Tracy, Galen, Solar, Alex Windsor, Alika, Abstract, Pollywog, Dan Barnes, Allen, Andrew, Nathan, DJ Crack. tix at Ameba and Primal starting next week $20. Willits. 415.750.9368 _________________________________________________________________ W E E K L I E S House/techno/acid jazz/ambient/etc reg'lar happenins Some of them may have ended - let me know when that happens... Tuesday Butterfly - Hip Hop, Acid Jazz, House, Funk w/DJs Charlotte, Dani, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $2. Casanova, 527 Valencia, SF. Breathe Deep - House w/DJs Jay-J, Ruben, Miquel, guests. 10pm-4am, 21+, $5. 1015 Folsom., SF. 415.998.9515 _Begin..._ - house, trip hop, trance w/DJs Darrel, Cisco, Radley, Ollie, Seanee, Xpress, Grey, Anna. 9pm-2am, All ages. The Inn of the Beginning, 8201 Old Redwood Highway, Cotati, Cotati. 707.524.4443 Mos Eisley Spaceport - cybertrance & techno w/DJs Mars, Solar, John Howard, Mystr-E, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. club Boomerang, 1840 Haight @ Stanyan, SF. 415.387.2996 _Kinetic_ - Phil Salter, guests. 21+, $5. 2325 clayton road, concord. 510.946.5005 _Deep Space_ - House w/DJs Spun, guests. 9pm-2am, . Greg's Bar, 551 W. Julian, San Jose. 408.286.4388 _Shoam_ - Trip-Hop & Drum n Bass w/DJs Your Mama's Cafe, 5239 College, Oakland. _Succotash!_ - tasty jazz - funk - beats - space w/DJs tom thump, rasta q-tip. 21+, Free. up & down club, 1151 folsom st., SF. Wednesday _ Come/Unity _- House, Techno, Ambient w/DJs Simon, Jeno, Garth. first Wednesday of the month. 10pm-4am, 21+, $7. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.241.8815 _Boost_ - old school uplifting house w/DJs Jamie J, Hector the ejector. 21+. the EndUp, 6th & Harrison, SF. 415.703.7105 _Roots_ - House, Trip Hop w/DJs Garth, Jeno, Felix the Dogge, Thomas, guests. 10pm-4am, 21+, $6. 1015 Folsom, SF. 415.512.5713 415.675.5660 _cosmic lounge _- space jazz, galactic grooves, jungle w/DJs Caspar, Paul, Seth, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, Free. cafe mars, 798 Brannan @ 7th, SF. _Reunion_ - Danny, Naz Cafe, guests. 9pm-, 21+, Free. The Fulton Bar, 1243 Fulton Mall, Fresno. 209.488.5332 _Energi_ - jungle w/DJs Flux, Abstract, guests. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. Bahia, 1600 Market, SF. _Quantum_ - trance w/DJs Myster-e, Mars, guests. $3. tHE pOWERhOUSE, 1347 fOLSOM. 415.861.1833 _float_ - house w/DJs Julius Papp, Harry Who?, Rick Preston. free b4 10pm. 21+, $3. Scalawags, 14 S 2nd St, San Jose. Thursday Lift - House w/DJs David Harness, Aaron O, Jay-J, Black, guests. 12mid-5:30am, 21+, $5. 55 Natoma, SF. 415.267.5984 Velvet Shop - House, Techno. call for location 21+, $5. 4th St Bowl, , SJ. 408.235.1556 _Azul_ - House, Soul w/DJs Alfie, James. 21+, Free. Casanova, 527 Valencia, SF. _The Top_ - House w/DJs Preston, guests. 8pm-2am, 21+, $2. The Top, 424 Haight, SF. Full House - Acid Jazz, House w/DJs Finn, Matt Bernsen, Andrew Rawnsley, Bruno Ybarra, guests, live musicians. 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. Miss Pearl's Jam House, Eddy & Larkin, SF. Pack-a-Bowl - "We'll be droppin the wax while you're droppin the balls" w/DJs Mars, Tracy, guests. 8:30pm-2am, $6. Park Bowl, Haight @ Stanyan, SF. 415.541.5019 _seismic_ - techno, house w/DJs DJ Dan, DRC, guests. alternate thursdays (3/28, 4/11, 4/25, 5/9...) $5. 415.972.8053 415.679.8328 _Diversity_ - jungle, trance. Every other Thursday 18+, $5. , Sacramento 916.203.TRIP .blitz - foxyboysfancygirlsfreshmademixes w/DJs begins April 4th 21+. 278 11th St @ Folsom, SF. _Le Jazz Hot!_ - future sounds for jazz heads w/DJs Andrew Jervis, guests. 9pm-2am, 21+, $3. Nickies BBQ, 460 Haight, SF. 415.621.6508 _Real_ - house, techno. every first Thursday of the month 9pm-2am, 18+, $7. Pantages Theater, 1225 K St Mall, Sacramento. 916.565.9588 [4.4 - Simon, Jeno, Eddie Edul, Karizma, Jordan] Friday _ Sound Factory _- House w/DJs Pete Avila, David Harness, guets. 9:30pm-7am, 21+, $10. Sound Factory, 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF. 415.543.1300 _Soul'd Out_ - House w/DJs Julius Papp, Rick Preston on 4 turntables. 21+. agenda basement, San Jose, SJ. _Nocturnal Transmission_ - House w/DJs David Harness, Tim Martinez, Saint John, guests. $5 before midnight. 11pm-5am, 21+, $10. 55 Natoma St., SF. 415.957.1730 _Go Fast_ - Techno. Energy Music...for Women by Women (boys can come too). 10pm-. 8th & Minna, SF. _The Top_ - House, Trip Hop w/DJs Robbie Hardkiss, friends. 9pm-2am, 21+, Free. The Top, 424 Haight, SF. _Liquid Fridays_ - House w/DJs various DJs. 10pm-2am, 18+, Free. 2721 Broadway, Sacramento., Sacramento. 916.484.4285 _Viva_ - ...setting san francisco on fire! w/DJs Ruben Mancias, Jamie J, guest. free before 10:30 w/flyer 9:30pm-4am, 21+, $7. 278 11th St @ Folsom, SF. the green door - "where circles meet squares" w/DJs andrew, thomas, caspar, paul, felix the dog, guests. 10pm-3am, 21+, $7. 880 Stevenson @ 10th, SF. _Nikita_ - house, techno w/DJs Jeno, Simon, Henrik. 11pm-7am, 21+, $10. 1015 Folsom St, SF. 415.267.0568 _The Scene_ - 21+. the EndUp, 401 6th @ Harrison, SF. 415.393.9067 _drum & bass trip hop_ - jungle, trip hop w/DJs Noel, Abstract, Andrew, Seth. begins March 29th 10pm-2am, 21+, $3. 270 Brannan @ 2nd, SF. 415.905.8865 _Beats_ - house, breakbeat, trance w/DJs Carlos Campos, Karizma, weekly guests. Folsom Blvd between Howe and 65th, Sacramento. 415.273.1345 916.558.0850 Saturday _Other Whirled_ - House, Techno w/DJs Warren, Nobel, Jason Cassady, Nikki Rivera, guests. saturday morning 6am-, 21+. 201 9th @ Howard, SF. _Sound Factory _- big club sounds 9:30pm-4am, 21+. Sound Factory, 525 Harrison @ 1st, SF. 415.543.1300 _Release _- Acid Jazz, Funk, Reggae, House w/DJs Jerry Ross, Josh, Mr. Sulu, Randy Wong. 21+. 1015 Folsom, , SF. 415.337.7457 55 - House, Euro w/DJs Jorge Martinez, Tim Martinez, guests. 21+. 55 Natoma St., SF. 415.267.1858 _Vanilla Fudge _- House w/DJs Corey Black, Sunshine, Moonbeam, Jason, Big Lee, Darren. occasional saturday nights. 10pm-2am, Free. Cafe Bastille, 55 Belden Alley, SF. 415.764.2903 Vertigo - Psycho, Techno, Disco, Funk w/DJs Nikki Rivera, Ellen Ferrato, Dave Peterson, Lewis. 10pm-3am, 21+. the EndUp, 6th & Harrison, SF. 415.703.7172 _Consciousness Lab Ambient Sound Research_ - ambient. live and pre-recorded ambient soundscapes 7pm-11pm, . RAW Living Foods, 1224 9th @ Lincoln, SF. 415.789.8308 _Liquid Vinyl_ - House w/DJs Jay-J, Suiki, John Howard, guests. 2am-6am, 21+, $8. DV8, 540 Howard, SF. 415.957.1730 _Nuff Respect _- Jungle w/DJs StarEyes, Thad. 5pm-9pm, Free. Your Mama's Cafe, 5239 College Ave @ Broadway, Oakland, Oakland. 510.601.YOUR Jungle at the Top - Jungle w/DJs Shobhan, UFO, Noel, guests. 21+, $2. The Top, 424 Haight, SF. 415.995.4699 _Metro Jazz _- Acid Jazz w/DJs Ruben Mancias, Mauricio Avilas, Tom Thump, Franky, guests. 10pm-, 21+, $7. 111 Minna St, SF. Sunday the Sci-fi Club - hypersentientpsychedelictribalacidcybertrance w/DJs Dutch, DRC, Mars, Theta Blip. 21+. 683 Clementina @ 8th & Folsom, SF. 415.331.1500x888 _Spundae _- House, Techno w/DJs Henrik, Carlos, Miquel, weekly guests. free b4 10:30p 10pm-5:30am, 21+, $5. 55 Natoma St., SF. 415.974.9389 _Leopard Lounge_ - Acid Jazz, Funk & Live Bands. w/DJs Suiki, Jay-J, Anthony, Julius Papp, Mark Farina, guests. 2125 Lombard @ Fillmore, SF. 415.771.2583 _Pleasuredome_ - House w/DJs Neil Lewis, David Harness, Phil B, guests. 21+. 177 Townsend, SF. 415.985.5256 Quench - House, Ambient w/DJs Rick Preston, Ryan Tapia, guests. Ambient-Space explorations by DJ Leath and guests in the front room. 21+. The Usual, 400 South First St., San Jose. 408.535.0330 Monday Mushroom Jazz - acid jazz, trip hop w/DJs Mark Farina, Miquel, Julius Papp, guests. 9pm-3am, 21+, $5. 330 Ritch St, SF. 415.905.8811 _Noc Noc_ - techno/ambient/jungle w/DJs Mohsen. 21+, Free. 557 Haight St., SF. MAD - Techno, Trance & Electro w/DJs Ethan, Alex, Jon Santos, Joe Rice, guests. $2 before 11pm. 10pm-, 18+, $3. Bahia, 1600 Market @ Franklin., SF. _Tongue n' Groove _- trip hop, jungle, acid jazz w/DJs tomas, seth, m.mark, guests. 10pm-4am, 21+, $5. Cat's Grill & Alley, 1190 Folsom @ 8th, SF. 415.431.3332 _________________________________________________________________ Info Lines * Be-At Info Line - 415-626-4087. Usually has 5-10 listings, updated daily. * Clubline - 415.979.8686 * Fatline - 415.207.3668 * Frequency 8 Trance/Techno infoline - 415.541.5019 * the Global Party Network Buzzline - 415.568.1338 * The Groove Line - (415) 331.1500 ext.4788 * Housewares Rave Line - 415.281.0125 _________________________________________________________________ Radio/TV Shows * Sunday night 11pm-2am - "The Dreaming/Innermind Show" w/DJ Miracle & Mr. Monchichi. House, Jungle, Trip-Hop, Ambient, Dub, Break-Beats & guest DJs. KSCU 103.3 (Santa Clara) * Sunday night 9pm-mid - "An Epiphany of Sound" hosted by J.C. KZSU 90.1 (Stanford) * Thursdays 9:30pm-midnight - "Aurora Borealis" Beats and atmospherics w/DJ Seth. KALX 90.7 (Berkeley) * Fridays 9pm-midnight - Andrew from Groove Merchant spins on KUSF 90.3 (SF) * Friday night/Saturday morning - midnight-noon. House/techno mix with Johnny K, Ozone & guests - KCSS 91.9 Central Valley (Turlock) * Friday night/Saturday morning - "Just Desserts" w/Mr.Goodwrench - 10pm-2am Ambient, Techno, Acid House, whacked-out Dub, Acid Jazz and noise KFJC 89.7 - Los Altos Hills * Friday night midnight - Flux Television, Viacom Channel 47 - Ambient, acid jazz and house music videos & interviews. (415) 281-3377. flux@netcom.com * Friday night - nocturnal transmissions - featuring house DJs from SF and around the world. mid-2am, 107.7 FM (SF) * Friday night - Your Mama's House w/Pete Avila - 3am-5am, 106.1 KMEL. * Friday night - Moondance. Ambient; 3am-7:30am, KUSF 90.3 SF. * Saturday morning - "The Uncle Noah TV Show" 6-9am, KDVS 90.3, Davis. * Saturday afternoon - "Bus Stop" - music and talk w/guest DJs from SF and beyond. 2pm-3pm. KUSF 90.3 SF. * Saturday night - "Saturday Night Spin Out" w/Ronnie Libido. Trip hop, Jungle, Ambient, Experimental Sounds. 10pm-2am. KFJC 89.7 - Los Altos Hills _________________________________________________________________ Administrative Notes If anyone has info on any other events, send it to me! I can't possibly hope to get all the info every week. This info gets sent via email every Thursday. To subscribe or unsubscribe to the calendar mailing list, send e-mail to majordomo@hyperreal.com with either the line subscribe sfraves-calendar or unsubscribe sfraves-calendar There is also an sfraves discussion mailing list for issues related to clubs, parties, house and techno music, etc. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@hyperreal.com with the line subscribe sfraves in the body of the message. Derek Chung - dhchung@hyperreal.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 00:59:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id AAA02421; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 00:59:55 -0800 Received: from CyberGate.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA02402; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 00:59:52 -0800 From: morton@CyberGate.COM Received: by CyberGate.COM (8.6.12/3.1.090690-Cybergate Information Services) id JAA08452; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:03:09 GMT Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 01:03:08 -0800 (PST) To: leftjab cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: random chrysalis thoughts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, leftjab wrote: > i'll always have a soft spot for chrysalis since it was my first And I too will have a soft spot because Chrysalis was my first "small" party. I also had a great weekend with new friends and I loved you all (even those who were not very friendly...not you Shawna :P ) > the ambient/chill room soothed and beguiled as always YES! This was also the first time I ever spent time in the chill room. I'm usually a dancing fool in the other room but it was way too hot. This lounging around made for a whole new experience...espcially with Leslie and her pipe next to me :) Oh my.....what a night! > the kaleidoscope was joined by an identical cousin > thank you marty for taking good care of it during my wanderings : ) Ny pleasure Jonathon. I really enjoyed looking though it. Isn't it amzaing how certain toys take on a whole new meaning at these events? I brought Floam and everyone loved it. We are so easily satisfied these days! And I'm so glad everyone liked the "rave blanket". It's become a welcome treat at the parties I have been to. > there were so many of you who i met that listing (and remembering) all the > names is futile -- just thank you all! I ditto that :) Don't know when I can make it up again to see all of you. I'm hoping to come for Harmony, but right now I'm scheduled to work. We'll see..... Biiiigggg Huuuug, Marty From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 01:00:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA02508; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 01:00:55 -0800 Received: from netcom16.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA02503; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 01:00:52 -0800 Received: by netcom16.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id BAA00780; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 01:00:58 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 01:00:58 -0800 (PST) From: "jason (chameleon)" Subject: mull foon transpo miracle? To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: sfraves- it's 1:05 am and i'm looking at my california coastal resource guide, at a close view map of a beach....avid pedestrian, the transpo is an issue....anyone in sf almost en route? (i'm in the mission); milles gratzies...415.285.8221 ;P jason (chameleon) csp94@netcom.com http://www.consynpro.com 415.773.9126 41 sutter #1166 SF CA 94104 constant synthesis project From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 01:40:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA06119; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 01:40:18 -0800 Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA05997; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 01:40:12 -0800 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id EAA05401; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 04:39:29 -0500 Date: 02 Apr 96 12:07:07 EST From: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" Subject: Re: Full Moon Party??? Message-ID: <960402170707_71165.755_GHL63-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: next full moons.... Weds April 3rd, 4:08 pm Pacific time Friday May 3 at 4:49 am Pacific time Saturday June 1 at 1;48 pm Pacific time Sunday June 30 at 8:59 pm Pacific time From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 06:45:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id GAA03431; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 06:45:58 -0800 Received: from odin.community.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id GAA03418; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 06:45:54 -0800 Received: from n141.solano.community.net (n159.solano.community.net [140.174.119.159]) by odin.community.net with SMTP id GAA21482 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 06:45:12 -0800 Received: by n141.solano.community.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BB2129.4E1E3980@n141.solano.community.net>; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 06:46:37 -0800 Message-ID: <01BB2129.4E1E3980@n141.solano.community.net> From: b e n c h u n To: "'sfraves'" Subject: rapture? Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 06:43:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: has anyone heard anything about or planning to go to rapture, supposedly = this friday? a friend of mine picked up a card for it, but I noticed = it's not on the SFR calendar... anyone? B E N C H U N -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- H O M E: W O R K: ben_chun@community.net webmaster@platform-horizons.com http://community.net/~ben_chun/ http://www.platform-horizons.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 08:17:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA10202; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 08:17:11 -0800 Received: from chip.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA10196; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 08:17:08 -0800 Received: by chip.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.1) id IAA27483; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 08:17:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 08:17:05 -0800 (PST) From: Albert Chan X-Sender: ez006498@chip.ucdavis.edu To: ephedrina cc: sfravers Subject: Re: Jumping on the delurk bandwagon In-Reply-To: <199604030752.XAA15434@netcom13.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, ephedrina wrote: ... > found here. After three months, I came back and decided it was time to > seriously work on finishing my biochem degree from ucsc. That's where I've > been ever since, and I just haven't found the time lately to go out on > weekends... that pre-med thing, you know. > ... YES! Another time-sucked pre-med/med type. I'm glad you're back and back in school. -alberT From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 10:18:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA20954; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:18:25 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA20946; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:18:23 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 18:36:30 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: stareyes@uclink4.berkeley.edu (vivian host) Subject: *i used to sell mixtapes....* ReSent-Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:18:20 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: Brian Behlendorf ReSent-To: sfraves@hyperreal.com ReSent-Message-ID: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: hey all thanks to everyone who came out for New Dawn on March 22...it was nice to see so many people supporting jungle and i hope that those of you who got em are enjoying your mixtapes.... speaking of mixtapes (we now interrupt you for shameless self-promotion :) ) ive got a new one out full-color cover high quality maxell 60-minute tape of all styles drum n' bass to caress your ear canals... *interested?* its $7 including postage and handling... email me for details at stareyes@uclink4.berkeley.edu support your local dj's.......:) thanks for making jungle work in sf they said it would never happen...... *starEyes* bass cru From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 10:18:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA21007; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:18:46 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA20999; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:18:43 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 19:30:28 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: stareyes@uclink4.berkeley.edu (vivian host) Subject: female dj's... ReSent-Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:18:40 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: Brian Behlendorf ReSent-To: sfraves@hyperreal.com ReSent-Message-ID: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: i know this is kind of an old thread and im sorry if im floggin...but ,it has to be done... society raises girls not to be outwardly competetive in the same way boys are...not to say they don't compete but it is in a different way....not only is djing nearly all male...(daunting to begin with...but the competition for gigs is very stiff...something which most girls, including myself, aren't used to or raised to half to deal with....this explains a lot of things..why there aren't more girls in rock bands, dj's, and why women have a lot of trouble in the corporate world...i think this factor is even stronger than the discrimination that exists in these sorts of fields...this is speaking as a possible sociology major although being a girl dj just reinforces what i've learned...isn't an education wonderful? (if you want to reply...please do so in private so as not to cause pain and because i am not on this list....too much mail for me to handle...) my 2 cents *starEyes* bass cru From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 10:20:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA21139; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:20:08 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA21132; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:20:06 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:46:26 -0800 (PST) From: "'Dave Bayer'" X-Sender: dlb@blizzard.berkeley.edu To: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: Re: Chrysalis and Disrespecting locations In-Reply-To: <960401220002_71165.755_GHL44-3@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ReSent-Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:20:04 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: Brian Behlendorf ReSent-To: sfraves@hyperreal.com ReSent-Message-ID: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On 1 Apr 1996, Leslie Ayres wrote: > I wonder if it would be helpful if the organizers at all parties post some > colorful obvious signs in the bathrooms and hallways to remind those people who > may not be thinking of the consequences of their actions. For instance, a big > colorful sign on the bathroom mirror might have discouraged the young girls who > thought it was so funny to cover the mirror with soap... I think they just > weren't thinking. I don't really think it the responsiblity of promoters to have to remind each and everyone one of us that we shouldn't smear stuff/scratch tags into the mirrors. There were a lot of younger people at there that didn't have a clue to what they were doing (for whatever reason), and most likely a large group of aged people as well (though they were not as visible). One group of circle dancing girls who who mow down people as their circle roamed around the dancefloor, one girl who flipped out on someone asking for a drink of her water then strutting away with her enterauge . There were a lot of younger people that were really cool and respected the place and the other people with them. While the organizers might want to provide an environment in which people can grow and a community can form, I don't think it is the place for the promoters to have to put such signs up, if anything that removes the requirement for people to stay responsible for themselves and their actions even when high (a state which some people use as an excuse for their actions which in turn makes people start talking about how drugs make people fake and delusional). > We all need to be aware that parties belong to us all, and we should maybe be > more self-"policing" (is there a better word?) to care for our space. Bringing the fact that people must be responsible for their own actions has been a side issue with a few organizers (especially those that are throwing camping parties/festis as far as I have seen) and it is not an easy thing to do without being overbearing, preachy, or putting someone into a defensive mode where they aren't going to listen to what you have to say. At the end of the day, the way the space is left will have some impact on future parties, whether it be the cost of renting the venue (for indoor parties), the willingness of park rangers to let outdoor parties go on, or just the general image that raves have to people (not just people outside the raving community but to those people inside the rave community that look at parties like the last Sunset and wonder whether they can be a part of a community that leaves a carpet of cigarette butts when they leave). dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 10:21:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA21312; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:21:00 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA21298; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:20:55 -0800 From: mveloo@netcom.com (moo) Message-Id: <199604020109.RAA02990@netcom.netcom.com> Subject: BAGOK TRIBE (*^*&^$&^$@^*(@@! To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:09:46 -0800 (PST) Cc: mveloo@netcom.com (moo) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 4372 ReSent-Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:20:53 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: Brian Behlendorf ReSent-To: sfraves@hyperreal.com ReSent-Message-ID: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Troy Sheets wrote: > > Did anyone go (or try to go) to Lucky Charms? I heard they had some problems > with the map point... like a riot or something? Can anyone who was there > tell the list what happened? bagok tribe? lucky charms... let me say that they have been put on my RAVE blacklist and boycott list... Saturday night was a fantastic display of how the 'scene' here has changed for the worse and how greed blatantly ruled the day... me and my buddies get to the map point 'Your Mama's Cafe' around 11p... we see a line of about 600 - 700 people... my initial thoughts were..'COOL...they moved the rave here... now where is the 20,000 sq ft virgin location'. It was only then, we realized that this was the MAP POINT! we had initially planned to go to chrysalis, but then decided to try a 'massive'... hoping that 'lucky charms' would be similar to 'the gathering'... boy were we WRONG!!! so we decide to line up... the crowd was getting restless because the line was not moving... after an hour or so...(yeah..we should have left) we hear someone shouting ..PUSH PUSH PUSH... some of us rushed to the front to find that the 'door' has been broken down...and some 'idiot' was standing on a chair inciting the crowd by telling them to push... of course there were a LOT of 'gangsta' types who decided to 'blindly' follow this moron and pushed... i believe a lot of people were crushed... then the organizers give up and throw what appeared to be tickets in the air... everyone of course goes wild and people are scrambling everywhere.. some people fall, a buddy of mine is pushed from behind..he falls and someone steps on his hand...hard. thank god it didn't break. the cops come soon later and the crowd disperses... the 'tickets' turn out to be jsut directions. we rush to the 'inline skating rink' and manage to get to the front of the line... and even then, we are made to wait... the obviously INEPT gaurds try to make everyone form a line, and we kinda do..but by then, the crowd keeps swelling. other gaurds come and they seem to think that it was all in fun... there was NO crowd control... NO boundaries marked out whatsoever..and only 2 gaurds to pat down about 1000 people freezing in the cold who ahd been lining up for an hour or so at 'your mama's cafe'!! needless to say people were NOT in a good mood... we manage to get in... and sad to say..there was NO VIBE whatsover... just a lot of gangsta rapper types walking around trying to look cool... we got in the middle of 'tony's' set... but after half an hour, the music is turned off and some guy comes on the mike and says that there is a riot outside...and he wanted everyone to be cool...the lights go on and people get pissed... some of the 'smarter' kids start hitting the sides of the skate rink in unison to make noise... (i did NOT have a good feeling about it then) thank god the music started after another 30 mins or so... i couldn't really get into the vibe later that night... too bad. i meet some people who told me they were 'forced' to pay $30 to get in...and that the gaurds wanted the extra $10 to 'risk' letting them in!!! HOW COULD YOU HOLD SOMEONE HOSTAGE FOR HAVING FUN?? that REALLY put a damper on our night... we left around 5am..sorely dissapointed and DISGUSTED!!! my feelings are.. 1) the promoter kept blaming the people for causing the problems, but he should have know that this was a massive and to have enough UNCORRUPT security to handle the crowd problems if any.. 2) how could you possibly have a map point at a tiny place for a gazillion people? if someone had gotten hurt in the stampede there, the whole scene would be jeapordised!!! and other promoters that are decent and looking out for us would be blamed too.. 3) with the 'type' of people expected, the promoter should have beefed up security..and i repeat..UNCORRUPT security 4) Bagok tribe needs to come out with a personal apology for what happened. 5) The Security Company people who asked for a $10 bribe to let people in should be revealed to everyone on this group and boycotted... lets make sure that they are not used at other raves. WELL, i've let off some steam and i feel better now... the only saving grace that saturday was the ORGANIC party in the GG park... NOW that was AWESOME... well i guess you can't have it all huh? moo From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 10:21:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA21358; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:21:12 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA21347; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:21:08 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 19:02:54 -0800 (PST) From: "'Dave Bayer'" X-Sender: dlb@blizzard.berkeley.edu To: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: Re: Go'n Mainstream? In-Reply-To: <199603271950.TAA00334@shgc.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ReSent-Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:21:05 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: Brian Behlendorf ReSent-To: sfraves@hyperreal.com ReSent-Message-ID: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 27 Mar 1996, Mark Piercy wrote: > Is it all gonna go mainstream,big time, above ground or totally > comercial??-look at the UK if you want to see a bleak future; totally > coporate, label sponsorships,dress codes,rock star DJ's, 45,000 people at > $30 "raves", ect- look at Dream, Mix Mag or any dance rag from the UK and > you'll see what I mean(or go there). Today I saw a full page add by > Moonshine in the Gaurdian-whats that tell ya..it's gettin big here too? but > maybe not.. Then look at festis like Ashton Court Festival anbd this little one called the First Faire which is pretty small but more than one person I know still says it had been the best party to which they have ever gone. There is a lifestyle to match, the crusty soap-dodging travellers. Whether or not there are going to commerical parties (hmmm, let us look at Cool World, Funky Techno Tribe, and to an extent Martin's parties) does not have much bearing on what might or might not happen to the more underground parties that happen in this city. Just depends on how the people involved feel about what they are doing and why they doing it... If you don't like how things are going, find people who agree with you and have some type of network to find or buy sound equipment, lasers, and lights (or if you're network is good, you might be able to get away with just a nice sound system) and throw a party or two the way you would like to see one thrown. The most important part is building some type of network that will draw the people that will support the vibe you wish to have at the space where you lug the system to (or if you working with a strong community behind you, they might help you lug the system to the spot where it is going to be set up)... dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 10:27:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA21926; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:27:37 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA21908; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:27:34 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:27:33 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Behlendorf To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Love (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: (sorry about the delay in forwarding this) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 29 Mar 1996 10:11:33 -0700 From: Andy Hawks To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Love Hi there.... I'm not a regular sf-raver, but I have followed sf-raves since it was conceived back in 92..... I've spent the last two days browsing Hyperreal, old sf-raves archives, and the like...Ya know, living this life day in and day out, we (the net-rave community at large) are aware of who we are, what we're about, our potential as a community....but it's only when you take a moment to step outside yourself and look at us from an outsiders perspective that you really get just a purely overwhelming feeling of positivity, energy, community, nurturing, connection, togetherness, and, of course, peace, love, unity, respect. Yesterday I was reviewing the Spirit of Raves archive *all-at-once*, and by the end of it, as I said in an email message to Lee, I was sitting there physically *throbbing* from the overwhelming sense of Goodness. I encourage all of you to take a moment to do this. I know we all spread plur on a daily basis, but, even if you were the source of all plur energy everywhere, you can still find something new to expand your consciousness by taking an hour or two out of your life to look over net-rave archives....the testimonials, the essays and accounts, the posts from the local lists.....it helps bring together our past, present, and potential future in a way that's capable of transforming your soul. Most importantly I wanted to send my love to those of you, the old skool, who have been the foundation of sf-raves and the larger net-rave community the past 5 years. Your contributions to the world, to humankind, have been vital in creating and expanding cultures, in changing people's lives at the very root of their definition of self, in making the world a truly better place. Take a moment to think about all that you have shared and brought to the world as a net-raver, all the parties, all the people you've met and shared experiences with, all the conversations on the lists from spiritual evolution on down to "can anyone give me a ride?" Think about all the hugs and all the laughs... It may take a week or two to really think about all those memories, but just do it. It'll change you. Net-ravers stand out in my mind, and many others I know, as the most beautiful examples of what it is to be human. Thank you. And this message couldn't be complete without a simple, deeply heartfelt "props to Brian." Brian has been somewhat of an idol of mine for I guess 4 years now. I don't like to put people on pedestals like that -- we are all the same -- but I feel Brian really deserves it for giving birth to this new global community and culture of net-ravers. Someday I will meet and hug this man who's changed my life for the better. Thanks for listening. I hope you all have a beautiful day. Smile and pass it on. With deepest love and respect, Andy Hawks -- __ __ ___/ ) andy@andy.colorado.edu ( \___ (___) (_____ peace<->love<->unity<->respect _____) (___) (___)> _____ believe in the power of love _____ <(___) (___)_/ \_(___) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 10:30:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA22262; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:30:18 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA22257; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:30:15 -0800 Received: from julie.teleport.com (shakti@julie.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA17985 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from shakti@localhost) by julie.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA11958; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:29:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:29:38 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: frisco groovers Subject: need ride Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: trying to make plans to fly down sat eve. either phred and i or just i will very, 99% sure, be flying in at either 8:32pm or 9:41pm for smiles and hugs. anyone willing to pick us or me up? thanks, bren :) http://www.teleport.com/~shakti From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 10:39:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA23460; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:39:31 -0800 Received: from mail1.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA23403; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:39:23 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA10360 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:38:32 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA03328 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:34:28 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:34:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199604031834.KAA03328@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: Matt Lanier X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: HEY! Matt's fine, turns out he went to Louisiana WITHOUT CHECKING WITH US FIRST! Boy, that definitely deserves a snurble... Glad to see you're ok, Matt. Don't be so quiet from now on, ok? S --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 09:13:43 PST >X-Sender: lanima00@dons.ac.usfca.edu >To: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) >From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" >Subject: Re: Matt Lanier > >hey todd- > >i'm sorry- i've made many of my friends worried recently. i've been in >louisiana visiting a friend for a week, and forgot to tell many of my >friends. i'm stupid that way. > >i'm cool, but thanks for the thought. shall we get together sometime soon? >i'd love it! > >peace, love, and all that cool shit- > >matt l. >matthew d. p. k. lanier /\ "peace within us, peace over us, >lanima00@dons.ac.usfca.edu / \ peace under our feet. >cellular 415-939-8780 / \ peace behind us, peace around us, >home 415-752-3218 / ++++ \ let all around us be peace." > / ++++ \ -david haas, prayer for peace > / ++++ \ >"i looked out my ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "deep within, >window, saw the cross ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ i will plant my law. >unaccesable, ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ not on stone, >saw the empty seats / ++++ \ but on your heart >reserved for the wealthy, / ++++ \ follow me, >the bread reserved for / ++++ \ i will bring you back >the full, the wine for / ++++ \ you will be my own, >the drunk, the roof / ++++ \ and i will be your god. >for those with homes, /____________++++____________\ return to me, >and wondered, ++++ with all your heart >would jesus have been catholic?" ++++ and i will bring you back." > > -me, 1996 -david haas, deep within > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 10:55:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA26163; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:55:05 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA26150; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:55:00 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA09650 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:51:13 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA12393; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:51:12 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA23674; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:51:09 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:52:55 -0800 To: mveloo@netcom.com (moo) From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: BAGOK TRIBE (*^*&^$&^$@^*(@@! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Don't worry, The Gathering will be a good "massive." It always is, and is handled intelligently. I'm sure others on the list will back me up on this. God, am I glad I didn't go to Lucky Charms! Peace, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 11:07:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA28006; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:07:41 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA27986; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:07:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:07:36 -0800 (PST) From: Andy Thomas To: Shawna McGourty cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Bad Signs In-Reply-To: <199604030312.TAA18137@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Shawna McGourty wrote: > Something that seems to be a recurring theme is having the map point at Your > Mama's Cafe. So far, they're two for two. Lucky Charms, and a party I went to > a while ago that was by far the worst rave I've ever been to! Guess out of > superstition I'll stay away from parties where the map point's at Your Mama's > Cafe! That seems a bit hasty, the map-point for basics a couple weeks back was at your mama's... It's a cool place too, it's not their fault certain promoters don't know what they're doing. But I would think after what went down last weekend they're going to be more careful about being used as a map-point... Andy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 11:09:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA28318; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:09:53 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA28304; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:09:48 -0800 Received: from julie.teleport.com (shakti@julie.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA10123 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:09:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from shakti@localhost) by julie.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA14557; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:09:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:09:43 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: frisco groovers Subject: got ride :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: brother wayne is picking us up. thanks! love, bren :) On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Brenda Brewer wrote: > trying to make plans to fly down sat eve. either phred and i or just i > will very, 99% sure, be flying in at either 8:32pm or 9:41pm for smiles > and hugs. anyone willing to pick us or me up? > > thanks, > > bren :) > > http://www.teleport.com/~shakti > http://www.teleport.com/~shakti From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 11:27:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA00586; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:27:56 -0800 Received: from yosemite.examen.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA00579; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:27:53 -0800 From: amyp@yosemite.examen.com Received: from pongo.examen.com by yosemite.examen.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0u4YET-0008GHC; Wed, 3 Apr 96 11:28 PST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: In need of Help... Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 11:28:19 PST Message-Id: <9604031928.134A78@pongo.examen.com> X-Mailer: SelectMAIL 1.2 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Hey guys. I need some advice. I have a male friend, an e dealer and ex-boyfriend, who needs help. Now I don't know what constant use of e can do to your system, but he does this at least twice a week. And not only does he do this, but he does a lot at a time. He has a high tollerance for it, but I don't think taking 10 hits is cool. Last night he called my friends, Michelle and Jules, at 5am to ask them for their 2 hits of e, that he had GIVEN them this last weekend. He was so desperate for more.....I don't understand. I am really worried about him. He's a good friend and I don't want anything to happen to him. In need of help or advice, amyp From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 11:56:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA03975; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:56:35 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA03969; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:56:32 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA12768 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:56:27 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA18345; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:56:26 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA07334; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:56:23 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:58:10 -0800 To: amyp@yosemite.examen.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: In need of Help... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Amy, The most common word is that e drains spinal fluid (!!!). It makes most people very ill if they take more than one at once. Because it's often cut with speed, it strains the heart and increases blood pressure, also straining veins/arteries/capillaries. A friend of mine was told that a guy took a hit of e that was a little old, and it paralyzed him. My opinion is that it's best to space multiple hits out by AT LEAST three and a half hours, and to do no more than three in a twelve-hour period. It's also highly advisable to wait at least a few days till taking it again, but more like a week (funny how this all fits in with weekend party schedules, eh?). The body needs time to recover from each Experience. Your friend will be in for a world of harm if he remains on his present course, especially because of various side-effects that hit the different systems of the body. I hope he'll change his ways and stay with us (and retain his friends!). I hope others on this list will elaborate/correct me on all of this. Peace and concern, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 12:11:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA05370; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:11:08 -0800 Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA05354; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:11:03 -0800 Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id MAA12311; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:11:53 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199604032011.MAA12311@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Re: In need of Help... To: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:11:52 -0800 (PST) Cc: amyp@yosemite.examen.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Eric P. Peterson" at Apr 3, 96 11:58:10 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > > Amy, > > The most common word is that e drains spinal fluid (!!!). It makes > most people very ill if they take more than one at once. Because it's > often cut with speed, it strains the heart and increases blood pressure, > also straining veins/arteries/capillaries. A friend of mine was told that > a guy took a hit of e that was a little old, and it paralyzed him. Hello?? When talking about such an important subject, if you don't have definitive facts you should not spread info you "kind of" know. "A friend of mine was told that a guy...." C'mon, eric... it is silly to take this kind of third hand information seriously. "Drains spinal fluid".... A myth as far as I know... no medical research has backed this up. I think this rumor was started becuase to do research on the effects of MDMA, spinal taps are often involved. "Very Ill if they take it more than once"... again, this is pretty meaningless. This is a very important subject, and if you don't know what you are talking about, you should leave the discussion to those that do. nothing personal, eric... just trying to keep fact strieght and accurate. -troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 12:22:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA06558; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:22:26 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA06540; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:22:20 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA13998 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:22:16 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA20821; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:22:18 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA13637; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:22:13 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:23:57 -0800 To: Troy Sheets From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: In need of Help... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: OK, thanks. That's why I asked for correction. I imparted all the most common feedback that I've gotten on this subject, hoping that meant that it was all based on some kernel of truth. From everything I've read, no one knows anything definitive, but at least I wasn't wildly speculating. As far as people taking more than one at a time, everyone I know who's done this has vomited, and had more an unpleasant experience than a pleasant one. I could have said "There's nothing wrong; let your friend do what he wants," but my nature demands that I offer whatever I can, however tenuous. Do you have anything to share, Dr. Sheets? :) I will now invalidate everything I've said by saying that I've never read any published studies/findings on the use of MDMA. So, am I a clueless idiot? Always hungry for knowledge, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 12:23:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA06725; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:23:37 -0800 Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA06715; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:23:30 -0800 Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA175173029; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:23:49 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:23:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: The Gathering! (was Re: BAGOK TRIBE) To: "Eric P. Peterson" Cc: moo , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Eric P. Peterson wrote: > Don't worry, The Gathering will be a good "massive." It always is, and is > handled intelligently. I'm sure others on the list will back me up on > this. God, am I glad I didn't go to Lucky Charms! You definatley have me to back you up on the claim of the Gathering being a good massive. I've attended every single Gathering sincince NYE 1992/93 (my very first Gathering and rave in general!) Hell, I even passed up a Friends and Family rave back in Dec. 1994 so I could make it to the 3 Year Anniversary. The dj line up looks really exciting, too! Does anyone know if this rave will have donations for a discount like they did in December? Nothing was mentioned at their homepage or on the calander. Who else on this list is planning on going? Don't know of much else besides Wicked that is happening. Its going to be a mighty fun weekend and the week is *already* half way over (ever heard the phrase "Wednesday is Hump day"? It always makes me giggle!:) love, Amy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 12:25:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA06887; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:25:03 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA06874; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:24:59 -0800 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp033-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.33]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id MAA07158 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:25:00 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960403202434.006f7518@moon.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@moon.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 12:24:34 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Crazy Bovine 99 Subject: Re: In need of Help... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > The most common word is that e drains spinal fluid (!!!). It makes i read that some doctor somewhere disproved this and it was all a big rumour.. but rumours tend to be grounded in at least a little truth, so be careful everyone. >most people very ill if they take more than one at once. Because it's >often cut with speed, it strains the heart and increases blood pressure, >also straining veins/arteries/capillaries. A friend of mine was told that >a guy took a hit of e that was a little old, and it paralyzed him. just like all the rumours about lsd, i think it's probably best to ignore the ones about e. however, you should be truly concerned about e being cut with shit that isn't e. the dealer probably doesn't even know what it's been cut with. be careful, some people sell drugs for maximum profits without caring about quality. > My opinion is that it's best to space multiple hits out by AT LEAST >three and a half hours, and to do no more than three in a twelve-hour >period. It's also highly advisable to wait at least a few days till taking >it again, but more like a week (funny how this all fits in with weekend >party schedules, eh?). The body needs time to recover from each >Experience. spacing it out sounds like a good idea. as with any drug, too much at once can be bad for you. i believe i read that e tends to hang around in your sytem for about 10 days, so if you try any more in that perioid, you'll have to take even more to compensate for drug resistance. > I hope others on this list will elaborate/correct me on all of this. well.. i hope i'm not contributing to rumour-mongering here. i've read all this from what seemed to be fairly reliable sources, although my memory could be less reliable and muddled up some stuff.. The Netherlands has a government drug information page with a lot of good info on it. Everyone should check it out. Lost the URL though. sorry. take care of yourselves. brendan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 12:31:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA07500; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:31:59 -0800 Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA07492; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:31:56 -0800 Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA191133567; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:32:47 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:32:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Reply-To: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: In need of Help... To: "Eric P. Peterson" Cc: amyp@yosemite.examen.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I even think that doing it once a week is a bit excessive!! Moderation is the key and most of us know our personal limits and respect them. Amy, you can get a *PLETHERA* of information about ecstacy in the hyperreal drug archive. http://hyperreal.com/drugs. I've heard that the spinal fluid drainage that Eric mentioned is a myth. Read the archives and go from there. love, Amy --------------- | _ ,/| | | '\`o O' | | =(_^_)= | Am Starkeyy | |U| | sac41673@saclink1.csus.edu | | | | --------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 12:40:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA08608; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:40:58 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA08601; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:40:55 -0800 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA21938; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:40:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kirstenc@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) id MAA22033; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:36:48 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:36:47 -0800 (PST) From: KaySEE Subject: Re: In need of Help... To: "Eric P. Peterson" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Eric P. Peterson wrote: > Amy, > > The most common word is that e drains spinal fluid (!!!). This is a myth. I remember reading how it became a myth, but don't remember right now. There are many drug faq's and archives on hyperreal if you would like more information. --kc From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 12:44:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA08899; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:44:18 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA08892; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:44:15 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA14728 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:44:14 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA22236 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:44:12 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA17314 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:44:09 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:45:56 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Extractig foot from mouth Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Sorry, gang! Regarding Amy P.'s appeal for help, I realize that everyone's gonna have something different to say, and I'm no doctor, etc. What I should have said, and what I say now, is: find and read whatever documented research you can on the effects of any substance which concerns you. That's likely to be more reliable than polling people for their individual take. Yes? In Deepest Humility, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 12:53:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA09919; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:53:23 -0800 Received: from xinet.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA09903; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:53:19 -0800 Received: from DialupEudora by xinet.COM via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) id MAA03894; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:53:10 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:53:10 -0800 To: amyp@yosemite.examen.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com From: tony@xinet.COM (Tony Rotundo) Subject: Re: In need of Help... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: My advice to you, and to anyone in this situation, would be to contact trained professionals, such as Narcotics Anon., other help groups, etc. There could be a world of banter back and forth as to the effects of drugs on our system, but that ain't gonna do shit about getting your friend the help he evidently needs. Tony From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 13:14:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA12714; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:14:59 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA12692; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:14:53 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA15775 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:14:50 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id NAA24450; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:14:52 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA22928; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:14:48 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:16:33 -0800 To: amyp@yosemite.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: In need of Help... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I gotta say one more thing on this, then that's it. I've found that the item in question diminishes my immune system, making me more vulnerable to nasty viruses. Between January and March of '95, I lost fifteen pounds due to two multi-week bouts of flu, which under normal circumstances lay me out for only three days to a week. I am convinced that the Excessive weakening of my immune system was the cause of this. It may not be that way for everyone, but as I'm human like most others on this list (if not all :)), I feel it relevant that I relate this, as I am absolutely certain of it. I still have five pounds to regain...but I'm more responsible to myself now, and haven't been ill since. Hope this helps, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 13:19:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA13085; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:19:39 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA13071; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:19:36 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:19:33 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Behlendorf To: amyp@yosemite.examen.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: In need of Help... In-Reply-To: <9604031928.134A78@pongo.examen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Amy, his usage seems abnormally, extremely high, high enough that it might suggest what he's addicted to (yes, at that level, it's addiction, even if it were playing video games or eating chocolate) is not MDMA but something else. MDMA has something of a built-in addiction resistance feedback mechanism - unlike most drugs, you usually *don't* feel the need to do it again right afterwards, or even for a few days afterwards, and taking it a couple times a week can cause the experience to drop in intensity. But, I can imagine in cases of extreme emotional problems and ready access to lots of MDMA it could be abused - and if this is the case he needs to get some level of professional help, as well as private help from those around him in his life. Brian p.s. - remember that there's lots of stuff at , including the complete book "E is for Ecstasy". Nicholas Saunders, the author, is also working on a site: . From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 13:36:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA14640; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:36:38 -0800 Received: from yosemite.examen.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA14632; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:36:35 -0800 From: amyp@yosemite.examen.com Received: from pongo.examen.com by yosemite.examen.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #5) id m0u4aF7-0008GHC; Wed, 3 Apr 96 13:37 PST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: A BIG thanks! Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 13:37: 7 PST Message-Id: <9604032137.077314@pongo.examen.com> X-Mailer: SelectMAIL 1.2 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: To everyone who responded- Thank you guys so, so much for all the info and advice. Even though he is my ex, we are still good friends and I think at this point I could probably sit him down and talk to him. Right now though, he is in a tough-guy mode(e dealing and car buying) and I don't know how much of what I would say would make a difference. But he is very intelligent and smart and I know some of it would stick in his brain. I just hope he realizes what's up before it's too late. Sorry about all the mishap, eric...I have heard the same info about fluid on the spinal tap too. Don't know if it's true or not. I guess all I can do is be a friend and be concerned. I care about him and hope the best for him. Hopefully, he'll get out of this phase or whatever it is, soon. Peace and love and BIG phat hugs, amy xoxoxo From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 13:43:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA15241; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:43:40 -0800 Received: from relay5.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA15229; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:43:37 -0800 Received: from uucp2.UU.NET by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQajww21915; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:42:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from rts2.UUCP by uucp2.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:43:37 -0500 Received: from hp700.unrrts.com (hp700.unrrts.com [198.252.162.70]) by rts.unrrts.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA10986; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:15:57 -0800 Received: from localhost (george@localhost) by hp700.unrrts.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA22400; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:19:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199604032119.NAA22400@hp700.unrrts.com> X-Authentication-Warning: hp700.unrrts.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Amy R Starkey cc: "Eric P. Peterson" , moo , sfraves@hyperreal.com, george@unrrts.com Subject: Re: The Gathering! In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Apr 1996 12:23:49 MST." Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 13:19:24 -0800 From: George Feil Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > Who else on this list is planning on going? Don't know of much else > besides Wicked that is happening. Its going to be a mighty fun weekend > and the week is *already* half way over (ever heard the phrase "Wednesday > is Hump day"? It always makes me giggle!:) I'm planning on being at the Gathering. My first rave, and first massive was the Gathering last December. It proved to be a fabulous initiation for me. Wicked can be fun (I went to the January one), but the rave vibe just isn't as strong there as at the Gathering. I wonder if they'll be doing it behind Home Base in Oakland again... (Shouldn't that store really be called "Home Plate"?) -George (new e-mail address, same soul behind the keyboard) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 13:47:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA15602; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:47:22 -0800 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA15587; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:47:17 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA07871 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:47:21 -0800 Received: (kcroy@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA02150 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:43:33 -0800 From: kcroy Message-Id: <199604032143.NAA02150@shellx.best.com> Subject: re: help To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:43:32 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1271 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I sent a more personal letter to the originator of this thread, but addiction, or whatever is posible. I have a friend who used to spend well over 3 grand a year on e (back when we called it x, and it went for $10 a hit) The problems can (and usually are) emotional at the base, and in some cases friends can help, sometimes its deeper. With myself, when I found myself getting too deep, I had friends who puled me aside and said they were worried. I told them to fuck off. but at some level it stuck, and I started noticing that sometimes I was having fun, someitmes I was taking it too far. And my friends helped me through. helped me stay safe and sane, and keep things under control. Not by yelling, or pushing, but by letting me know when I was pushing things. Letting them know they cared for me, and that they werew worried. This isn't a born again freak post. This sint an anti sugar, or caffine, or H post. Its a 'sometimes you can help your friends who are in too deep' post. God this sounds like im preacing to the perverted, but please dont forget that things can go too far. D is a wealty , mserable , fucking lawyer in NY. A, (an se raver) OD'd last year. Sometimes people need a little more help. Remember, we take care of eachother. kc|roy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 13:47:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA15656; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:47:46 -0800 Received: from slip.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA15647; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:47:42 -0800 Received: from sf-asc-85-233.dialup.slip.net by slip.net with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0u4aOY-000MayC; Wed, 3 Apr 96 13:47 PST Message-ID: <3164424E.4723@frequency-8.com> Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 13:42:38 -0800 From: illumin8 Organization: Slip.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: 1200 fer sale! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Hey y'all! Our friend Evo has a 1200 for sale. new condition. please call him for more info. 510-256-7018 later... Jonas From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 13:47:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA15697; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:47:55 -0800 Received: from ecf2.puc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA15683; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:47:50 -0800 Received: (from amdice@localhost) by ecf2.puc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA06953; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:48:26 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:48:26 -0800 (PST) From: Tinsau To: sfravers Subject: Lucky Charms Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Boy, it sounds like most people had a terrible time. I guess I got really lucky because when I showed up just after ten it took me 4-5 min. to get a ticket at Your Mama's and even less time to get into the actually location. There were only about 150 people when I first arrived but the place filled quite steadily. I didn't realize there were any problems until they stopped the music for awhile due to the outside crowd. Inside as well some people though the vibe was uneven. I guess it depends where you were. I had a wonderful time, met several friendly people, got hugs (which I felt were really sincere), water, candy, etc. right in front of the turntables where I stationed myself the entire night. Also, lots of smiles up in front :) In light of the other posts, I will have second thoughts about future Bagok events, but really I enjoyed my night extremely well. (Really enjoyed all the trance that started the night off GOOD GOOD GOOD) On another topic I am always sober during my raving (I find the music is my drug), and as was mentioned before catnaps are what makes an allnighter possible (although, energy from the crowd has sustained me on many occasions or sets that you just can't stop for even when you know you need a break). The physical activity of dancing usually will work for much of the night (for me). Usually, my friends get tired first (chemically aided or not) and often end up sleeping in my car for a while. I just want to take everything in, don't want to miss anything. Trying to make it to the Gathering! Austin Tinsau S.F. Born and Raved! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 13:48:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA15798; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:48:53 -0800 Received: from cmac20.Colorado.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA15788; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:48:49 -0800 Received: from 0.0.0.0 (198.59.61.5) by cmac20.Colorado.EDU with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1b10); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:51:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3162F2CE.2A3@andy.colorado.edu> Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 14:51:10 -0700 From: Andy Hawks Reply-To: andy@cmac20.colorado.edu Organization: CAUSE X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b2 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: moving to san francisco... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: umm...this may sound really weird, but, i need some collective sf-raver advice....=) big time...=) i'm debating whether to uproot myself or not.... here's the deal: currently i live in denver, colorado...i have a nice stable job as a webmaster that pays decently....but, california has been calling me the last few years -- each summer since i was 17, 5 years ago, i've *almost* moved out there, but different things have held me back (money, fear, school, parents, etc.)....i'm thinking of moving to san francisco with some mtn-raves friends from albuquerque this august.... i was wondering if i could get people's opinions on the spirit of the city, just everything about your overall experiences in sf, especially from people that've recently moved out there or that, like me, said "fuck it let's just go".... was also wondering if i could also get some average cost of living figures from sf-ravers, a feel for job market prospects for a young kid with about 6-7 years internet experience and some writing experience.....career-wise, i love to design/architect/maintain web sites and i love to write things along the lines of wired/mondo 2000/urb/ project x (i've written for mondo and urb, i guess you could say...if scene reports count for urb...) and my heart lies at the center of alternative-internet culture (i started futureculture a long time ago, if anyone know what that is, and wrote the first alt.cyberpunk faq =) and rave culture (i started the tribe global rave culture email list, i'm writing for our local scene zine in Colorado, i'm heavily into the scene out here without being involved in promotions)....all that is why i know that's why i need to be in california....but that doesn't mean anything - - everyone in california is like this...i'm a little fish in a big pond out there, and that's my biggest fear... so i would really appreciate any feedback you could give me on the city itself and surviving out in california....i've pretty much lived in boulder and denver, colorado all my life, so....this is a huge change and i'm trying to get a lot of different feedback from a lot of different sources... -- __ __ ___/ ) andy@andy.colorado.edu ( \___ (___) (_____ peace<->love<->unity<->respect _____) (___) (___)> _____ believe in the power of love _____ <(___) (___)_/ \_(___) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 13:51:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA15981; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:51:32 -0800 Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA15972; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:51:28 -0800 Received: from (ascend@sjx-ca56-10.ix.netcom.com [205.186.122.74]) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA22030; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:48:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:48:08 -0800 Message-Id: <199604032148.NAA22030@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: ascend@ix.netcom.com (Gregory Sandler ) Subject: Re: In need of Help... To: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: You wrote: > >Amy, > > The most common word is that e drains spinal fluid (!!!). It Eric!, E does not drain spinal fluid!!!! There are no reported documents, at least that I have researched that lead to this conclusion. Even if E did drain Cerebral Spinal Fluid it would be insignificant. I know this because I have resently had a spinal tap, (for serious health problems that we really don't need to go into right now). The amount of spinal fluid that was taken from my back was more than I thought was even in my back. And there is plenty more where that came from!!! I asked the doctor the oh so important question, "What will happen to my spine?" She said all the spinal fluid will regenerate and you will be back to normal in no time!! So all in all, it has not been proven that E drains spinal fluid, and if it did, I don't think it would be a problem. Peace, Greg :) makes >most people very ill if they take more than one at once. Because it's >often cut with speed, it strains the heart and increases blood pressure, >also straining veins/arteries/capillaries. A friend of mine was told that >a guy took a hit of e that was a little old, and it paralyzed him. > My opinion is that it's best to space multiple hits out by AT LEAST >three and a half hours, and to do no more than three in a twelve-hour >period. It's also highly advisable to wait at least a few days till taking >it again, but more like a week (funny how this all fits in with weekend >party schedules, eh?). The body needs time to recover from each >Experience. > Your friend will be in for a world of harm if he remains on his >present course, especially because of various side-effects that hit the >different systems of the body. I hope he'll change his ways and stay with >us (and retain his friends!). > I hope others on this list will elaborate/correct me on all of this. > >Peace and concern, > >- E > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 13:53:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA16361; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:53:23 -0800 Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA16333; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:53:16 -0800 Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA028418361; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:52:41 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:52:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: The Gathering! To: George Feil Cc: "Eric P. Peterson" , moo , sfraves@hyperreal.com, george@unrrts.com In-Reply-To: <199604032119.NAA22400@hp700.unrrts.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > I wonder > if they'll be doing it behind Home Base in Oakland again... (Shouldn't > that store really be called "Home Plate"?) I checked out their homepage earlier today (www.communion.com/gathering) and it said it is 20 minutes east of San Francisco. Sure sounds like the same location to me. I don't mind - it was big and airy! :) love, Amy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 13:56:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA16699; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:56:47 -0800 Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA16693; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:56:44 -0800 Received: from (ascend@sjx-ca56-10.ix.netcom.com [205.186.122.74]) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA10299; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:54:26 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:54:26 -0800 Message-Id: <199604032154.NAA10299@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> From: ascend@ix.netcom.com (Gregory Sandler ) Subject: Re: The Gathering! (was Re: BAGOK TRIBE) To: Amy R Starkey Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: You wrote: >Who else on this list is planning on going? Don't know of much else >besides Wicked that is happening. Its going to be a mighty fun weekend All of us down here in S.J. are ready to dance our asses of @ the Gathering on Sat. We will be there in force, once again, as Crayons!!!!! So look for us. I think there are five of us, maybe more. We'll see!!! Peace, Greg :) >and the week is *already* half way over (ever heard the phrase "Wednesday >is Hump day"? It always makes me giggle!:) > >love, >Amy > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 14:33:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA21063; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:33:21 -0800 Received: from club.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA21048; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:33:17 -0800 Received: from [157.22.222.111] by club.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1b9); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:33:13 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:32:34 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Wayne D. Correia" Subject: Re: The Gathering! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Unfortunately I have a schedule conflict that means I can't go to The Gathering! It's very sad, but maybe I can try to go to both. I just don't know. :-( -w ________________________________________________________________________ Wayne D. Correia wayne@club.net 900 Tennessee Street TEL: +1.415.826.6000 http://www.club.net San Francisco CA 94107-3014 FAX: +1.415.826.6100 http://www.domain.net From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 14:40:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA21756; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:40:23 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA21736; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:40:16 -0800 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA16443 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:40:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kirstenc@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) id OAA24756; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:38:15 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:38:14 -0800 (PST) From: KaySEE Subject: The Dead (NRR) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Por favor, excuse mi ignorancia. My sis just got an internet provider (out of Sausalito no less) called well.com. Is this the same "well" that I've hear was THE center of dead computer culture. This is just out of curiosity, as I know there is more than one deadhead on this list. Can someone fill me in? I'll take this offline :) kc kirstenc@uclink.berkeley.edu .*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.* "Talk is cheap..." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 14:48:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA23011; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:48:33 -0800 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA23004; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:48:31 -0800 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA19093; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:48:34 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:48:33 -0800 (PST) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: OFF-SUB:Possible job Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Thought I would give this great pool of talent and experience a shot. The ISP I adminster is looking for a couple of casual part-time tech support people. If you are in the E. Bay (Walnut Creek) and interested, please forward me a short, informal resume, let me know your availabilty and wage requirements. We now return you to your normal daily programming..... Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 15:18:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA26260; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:18:47 -0800 Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA26255; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:18:43 -0800 Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.0); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:22:51 +0000 X-Sender: ambient@netcom23.netcom.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:21:26 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: ambient@netcom.com (Joe Rice) Subject: Body Electro tonight Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Somebody asked about Body Electro - it's happening tonight @ Bahia Cabana and Daum (Freaky Chakra) will be performing live. I also heard about a new club happening at the Top on Monday nights with DJ's Tomas and Abstract doing the tr/hip hop mo' waxy drumnbass thing. Not that I'm suggesting you go anywhere but Mad. =) Joe (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 15:45:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA28811; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:45:09 -0800 Received: from newvax.sonoma.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA28797; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:45:03 -0800 Received: from SONOMA.EDU by SONOMA.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8366) id <01I33Z2OSP5GQT7R7Y@SONOMA.EDU> for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 03 Apr 1996 15:44:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 15:44:36 -0800 (PST) From: JONAS THE ESKIMO BOY Subject: the well To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-id: <01I33Z2OSYT2QT7R7Y@SONOMA.EDU> X-VMS-To: SMTP%"sfraves@hyperreal.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Kirsten said... >Por favor, excuse mi ignorancia. > >My sis just got an internet provider (out of Sausalito no less) called >well.com. Is this the same "well" that I've hear was THE center of dead >computer culture. This is just out of curiosity, as I know there is more >than one deadhead on this list. Can someone fill me in? You're right. well.com is not only the center for the Dead puter culture, it is also the provider where you're most likely to find the real Inet lurkers (the people who really don't want you to know that they're there...). And oh, if you care, well.com was also one of the puters that "master hacker" Kevin Mitnick broke into and abused before his capture last year. jonas From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 15:52:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA29423; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:52:39 -0800 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA29409; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:52:34 -0800 Received: from am.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id PAA21002; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:52:35 -0800 Received: by am.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id PAA06083; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:52:32 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:52:31 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: In need of Help... To: Brian Behlendorf cc: amyp@yosemite.examen.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Brian Behlendorf wrote: > > Amy, his usage seems abnormally, extremely high, high enough that it > might suggest what he's addicted to (yes, at that level, it's addiction, > even if it were playing video games or eating chocolate) is not MDMA but > something else. MDMA has something of a built-in addiction resistance > feedback mechanism - unlike most drugs, you usually *don't* feel the need > to do it again right afterwards, or even for a few days afterwards, and > taking it a couple times a week can cause the experience to drop > in intensity. But, I can imagine in cases of extreme emotional problems > and ready access to lots of MDMA it could be abused - and if this is the > case he needs to get some level of professional help, as well as private > help from those around him in his life. > > Brian Hi! Brian I just thought I would point out that you are generally right about most folks not wanting e for a while after one (I'm one of those people-- I usually wait a year or so between Experiences), everyone has a different bio-chemical system and so personal experiences can vary wildly. Ran @ Dionysus Dreams (peace) / =*=/ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 16:15:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA01518; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:15:45 -0800 Received: from club.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA01503; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:15:41 -0800 Received: from [157.22.222.111] by club.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1b9); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:15:41 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:15:03 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Wayne D. Correia" Subject: Re: BAGOK TRIBE / Lucky Charms flyer Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I don't post very often, but I have to say something about this. I know most of the promoters in the area, and even if all of them aren't throwing the best parties, nearly all of them *at least* approach their event with a positive attitude. This extends to the flyers they create, the decorations they provide, the DJ's they invite to play, and the people they hand their flyers to. I don't know BAGOK TRIBE, but I don't get that kind of feeling from them. All I can say is when I saw my first (of about 10 I have found on my car or forced into my hand at a party) damned flyer of theirs, I just wanted to throw up. The *blatant* drug references gave me the impression that they were much more interested in selling drugs (or helping their friends sell drugs?) than throwing a party. If you haven't see it, the flyer is basically criminal. On the front, there is a bowl of cereal on the thing and it's topped with what are meant to be tablets and capsules! And the entire bowl has a "rainbow" over it with more tablets and capsules! And there's a little cartoon character next to it with a pot leaf on his hat and a necklace with a big "e" medallion on it! And he's actually got a tablet with an "e" on it in his hand! WHAT THE FUCK!? And oh, did I forget to mention their jingle? Nothing about peace, positivity, community, or vibe. It says "Magically delicious crunchy beats wiht extra fortified vitamin treats!" Huh, vitamin treats! Wow, I think that I get it now! Down on the very bottom of the back of the flyer it says, "Open your mind, your ears, and your hearts as we bring the east & west coasts together under one house with unity, love, respect and happiness!" Well, by this point, those words don't mean much coming from them... These kind of parties are the reason that "RAVES" have a bad name. These are the kind of parties that draw unnecessary attention to "the scene" by concerned parents, civic groups, law enforcement, and media. These are the kind of parties that make people thank that raves suck, and that we're goofy for being so dedicated to them. An outsider can't see the difference between a "Lucky Charms" and an underground party. When you throw a massive, you have an *even greater responsibility* to do the right thing since your event falls under the scrutiny of so many people. I'll be damned if I would *ever* give someone $20-30 to go to some vibeless teenage gangsta-kid tagging, Adidas pimp-clothes wearing, circle dancing, skate rink party -- even if there were *nothing* else going on. This was most likely the kind of party/problem that caused the scene to literally consume itself back in 1993, leaving the "rave scene" dead, except for the undergrounds. And this is a damned shame, because the underground is growing, and the correct vibes and messages are being shared at that level, and we have the chance to really do great things for a lot of people if we can spread this message. Unfortunately, it only takes one "Lucky Charms" (or their flyer in the hands of law enforcement or the media) to fuck it all up. thanks for listening, -w From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 16:33:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA02760; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:33:39 -0800 Received: from mckinley.mckinley.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA02748; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:33:36 -0800 Received: from [206.214.202.148] by mckinley.mckinley.com via SMTP (8.6.13/940406.SGI.AUTO) for id QAA06942; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:32:49 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:32:49 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: csaldana@mckinley.com (Carol Saldana) Subject: Gathering Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: In response to The Gathering this weekend I was wondering-- a few years ago I went to a Gathering party in Richmond and it was to benefit Maliki. Would anyone happen to know how he is? If my memory serves me right, he was in a tragic accident after coming back from a full moon party back in 92 or 93? I was just curious as to how he is. I really have a special place for Gatherings because of that time I saw him and he smiled at me... it broke my heart! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 16:52:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA04809; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:52:48 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA04804; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:52:45 -0800 Received: from [128.32.160.66] (hmfmac28.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.160.66]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA02075 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:52:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:51:32 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) Subject: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: There are many baseless rumors circulating about e...an overfortunate but understandable side-effect of the drug being prohibited by law, and therefore having no useful information on dosage/safety etc. distributed to the thousands upon thousands of people who take it each weekend. (The government sees fit to compromise the health of its citizens by maintaining a puritanical silence on drugs). In that environment, people (naturally hungry for knowledge) merely repeat what others have told them. We make our choices based on the netherworld of half-truths, rumors, some fact, and suspicion - because that is all we have to go on. Rumor here is not nefarious but is offered to each other as our only guidelines to help take care of each other. But reliable information is available if you search. I have read _E is for Ecstasy_ by Saunders and did independent research in the health library at UC Berkeley prior to ever ingesting the drug. (I believe in INTELLIGENT, INFORMED decisions about drug use!!). 1) Spinal fluid draining is an unmitigated MYTH but it does have the distinction of being the longest-lived rumor. Back in the 70's when e was legal, preliminary tests were conducted tapping peoples' spinal fluid. This led to the connection between e and spinal fluid, an assertion which has been repeated ever since. 2) addiction is virtually impossible One of the distinguishing aspects of ecstasy is the fact that its effects diminish with increased use. Several days-to-one-week seems to be the necessary spacing between doses in order to achieve the same effect (and many people recommend one month or more). People can take 3 pills over 12 hours, for instance, but 3 pills two days later will not achieve very much. 3) Illness Some people have been known to vomit after overdosing on e, but "seriously ill" is an extreme overstatement. Unease seems to clear within a few hours, and "hangovers" are virtually unknown. Emergency room admissions are remarkable rare, and if do occur are usually linked to the presence of _other_ drugs. 4) e is rarely pure _This_ is the cause of most problems. Often cut with speed, it is advisable not to ever ingest more than 2-3 pills (dosage should be directly proportional to body weight). There is often acid and, rumored, heroin. Since you don't know what you're popping in your mouth, BE CAUTIOUS. 4) E makes you depressed I have at the moment forgotten the term for the chemicals released by e (the ones that regulate your mood and make you happy - not endorphins). But many people swing back to a "low" the next few days, and rumors abound that e causes _long-term depression_. NOT VERIFIED. Short-term depression is alleviated by vitamin concoctions that replenish your temporarily low chemical supply (these are found in smart drinks, fruit, and orange juice, conveniently :) . Rats who had damaged receptors for these chemicals were found to have them REGENERATED within a year, i.e. no long-term damage verified. Contraindications for taking e: 1) History of epilepsy, seizures, heart problems In very rare cases, in people with a history of these problems, e can bring on epileptic/seizure attacks (no recorded deaths have occured from this). Because its of the amphetimene family, one should also be aware of any heart/blood pressure problems. 2) Only deaths have been attributed to extreme DEHYDRATION about 6 deaths in England in the last 10 years, due to extreme heat and overcrowding, hours of dancing with no breaks, and lack of water. People, take frequent rests and a lot of water (that is why bottles are everywhere!!). Information on e is not authoritative. Because of the government's prohibition on it, very few tests have been performed. However, there does exist a body of information. Look it up at your local alternative bookstore or on Hyperreal (lots of info). This is just a sketch - there is TONS of info on all the tests, medical stories, and history of and synthesis of the drug. Play safely!! Love, Nancy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 17:16:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA07127; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:16:06 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA07118; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:16:00 -0800 Received: from [128.32.160.66] (hmfmac28.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.160.66]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA08670 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:16:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:14:48 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) Subject: The Gathering Scam Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Does anyone else know if this is going to be another $25 RIP-OFF?! The location is the same (or at least, is also noted as "20 minutes east of San Francisco"), so expect a ridiculous price. And I don't know if bringing a toy at Christmas for a generous $5 off of ___!!!$25!!!_____ constitutes a "discount!" Apparently Gatherings started with the best of intentions. But all I know is that I went to several of Martin's events last year, and felt exploited each time. I don't like calling a voicemail and hearing, "Oh, the family's coming together tonight! It's going to be so BBEEAUUUUTIFUULLL!! Tonight we're creating love and unity, TOGETHER, yeah!!" And then I arrive to find 3000 other people lined up, clutching their $25 in hand, to be patted down by big guards and thrown into cavernous space without adequate sound and with the teeny vibe of the few earnest ravers in the crowd attempting to make itself heard in the hugeness of the massive.... The Gathering in December was a HUGE disappointment for me. I didn't notice any attempt on the promoters part to promote PLUR. A LOT more could have been with visuals, toys, vibe patrols, fruit, etc. to really enhance peoples' experience and bring the thousands upon thousands together. Instead, that location, not adequately decorated, was like several airplane hangers, separating the crowd (with chain link fences!!). The sound got lost, sounding almost metallic because the huge space didn't provide cushioning for it. The only vibe came, as I said, from ravers who were determined to make _something_ out of it. I know the several newbies that were in our group did not have a good time at all, and did not understand what the rest of us saw in raving. I just don't think unity should cost $25, and if it does, we should get a little more for it!! Can someone tell me what they see in these events that deserves our support??!! Because honestly, when I hear his messages of "love" I only hear a conjob, and I can only wonder how rich he's grown off of the scene. Please tell me if you think I'm wrong about Martin and the Gathering Scam, because right now I wouldn't go to this thing if you paid me (and we certainly won't be the ones rolling bank at the end of the night!!). From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 17:23:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA07565; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:23:31 -0800 Received: from wired.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA07543; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:23:26 -0800 Received: from [204.62.132.86] (outtasite.wired.com [204.62.132.86]) by wired.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25434 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:23:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:22:45 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: phro@hotwired.com (Le~ Steph) Subject: Re: Gathering Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >In response to The Gathering this weekend I was wondering-- a few years ago >I went to a Gathering party in Richmond and it was to benefit Maliki. >Would anyone happen to know how he is? If my memory serves me right, he >was in a tragic accident after coming back from a full moon party back in >92 or 93? I was just curious as to how he is. I really have a special >place for Gatherings because of that time I saw him and he smiled at me... >it broke my heart! Your thinking of ComeUnity, wich was put on by Maliki and Simon. Maliki is paralized from the neck down, but has gotten some feeling back in his arms. He's living in Scottland now with his familiy. He keeps in constant contact with Simon (who is still keeping ComeUnity going in his memory). over&out, phro From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 17:25:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA07786; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:25:27 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA07780; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:25:23 -0800 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA13594; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:25:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kirstenc@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) id RAA10737; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:23:21 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:23:20 -0800 (PST) From: KaySEE Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact To: Nancy cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I just found a very good Ecstasy information web page as I was poking around in order to get more information for myself. The URL is: http://tdg.uoguelph.ca/%7Epeak/issues/22/ish3/ecstasy.html It is kind of a research project investigating the published research that has been done on MDMA. I will quote a bit of it below, but you should really read it for yourself. The research seems sound and has a bibliography. It talks of ongoing scientific research being done around the world that has yet to be published. Being from a scientific background, I prefer stuff like this to inform myself of risks rather than things like "E is for Ecstasy" by Saunders (but that is MY bias!!). The page is well researched and says both the known and unkown. Here is a snip of it: "...There is little doubt that MDMA has the potential to cause neroanatomical changes and permanent serotonin deficiencies in the primate brain. It remains to be shown whether there are functional consequences that correspond to the neroanatomical changes that characterizes excessive ecstasy use. It also remains to be determined whether humans exhibiting MDMA-exposure damage are capable of compensating for damage via still undetermined pathways. Research on this matter is ongoing at Johns Hopkins, the U.S. National Institute for Drug Abuse, and research labs worldwide." I'll let anyone interested read the rest. I found it in my search for an article about neural damage caused by MDMA that was supposedly published in Science magazine. I still can't find the article, but I read about it last August sometime in the newspaper. If I ever find it, I'll let anyone know who is interested. My apologies for the "drug-talk". The scientist in me is always looking for evidence!! he he chau, kc kirstenc@uclink.berkeley.edu .*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.* "Talk is cheap..." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 17:26:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA07888; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:26:23 -0800 Received: from cti02.citenet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA07882; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:26:19 -0800 Received: from [206.123.34.68] (g34-68.citenet.net) by cti02.citenet.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20505; Wed, 3 Apr 96 20:26:14 EST Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:34:25 -0500 To: andy@cmac20.colorado.edu From: ecto@citenet.net (e c t o) Subject: Re: moving to san francisco... Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: At 2:51 PM 4/3/96, Andy Hawks wrote: >umm...this may sound really weird, but, i need some collective sf-raver >advice....=) big time...=) > >i'm debating whether to uproot myself or not.... > >here's the deal: > >currently i live in denver, colorado...i have a nice stable job as a >webmaster that pays decently....but, california has been calling me the >last few years -- each summer since i was 17, 5 years ago, i've *almost* >moved out there, but different things have held me back (money, fear, >school, parents, etc.)....i'm thinking of moving to san francisco with >some mtn-raves friends from albuquerque this august.... > >i was wondering if i could get people's opinions on the spirit of the >city, just everything about your overall experiences in sf, especially >from people that've recently moved out there or that, like me, said "fuck >it let's just go".... was also wondering if i could also get some average >cost of living figures from sf-ravers, a feel for job market prospects >for a young kid with about 6-7 years internet experience and some writing >experience.....career-wise, i love to design/architect/maintain web sites >and i love to write things along the lines of wired/mondo 2000/urb/ >project x (i've written for mondo and urb, i guess you could say...if >scene reports count for urb...) and my heart lies at the center of >alternative-internet culture (i started futureculture a long time ago, if >anyone know what that is, and wrote the first alt.cyberpunk faq =) and >rave culture (i started the tribe global rave culture email list, i'm >writing for our local scene zine in Colorado, i'm heavily into the scene >out here without being involved in promotions)....all that is why i know >that's why i need to be in california....but that doesn't mean anything - >- everyone in california is like this...i'm a little fish in a big pond >out there, and that's my biggest fear... > >so i would really appreciate any feedback you could give me on the city >itself and surviving out in california....i've pretty much lived in >boulder and denver, colorado all my life, so....this is a huge change and >i'm trying to get a lot of different feedback from a lot of different >sources... Well, sorry to not clip out all this letter but it pretty much describes my situation as well, apart from the fact that i'm in Montreal. If anyone's has any help they could give me as well, i'd appreciate it. I've basically decided to uproot (i don't have much roots here anyways). I'd also be looking for HTML/Webmaster/Design/Writing work. I'm not so much worried about being a little fish in a big pond, because the SF pond seems to be populated with a lot of cool fish! ;) thanks and much peace, brad =====================/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\================== \|/ ectographics: print and online design --O-- ecto@citenet.net >> ecto@magnet.ca >> /|\ http://www.magnet.ca/~ecto /---\ /-----\"second star on the right, straight on til morning" - peter pan /_______\-========\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/================= From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 17:35:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA08524; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:35:36 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA08516; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:35:33 -0800 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA06153 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:35:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kirstenc@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) id RAA13347; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:34:53 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:34:52 -0800 (PST) From: KaySEE Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam To: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I had a beautiful time at the Dec. Gathering. I'm not a big fan of huge parties like this, but every now and then, it is really fun. I love seeing all of the different ppl, and I felt a great vibe. I, however, stuck really close to some beautiful friends and this was perfect for me. The music in the harder, non-house room totally moved my lil' ole' body. I guess it just goes to show you, that in many cases a party is what *you* as an individual makes of it. Sometimes when things aren't going right for you (this happens for me) everything seems lesser. Everyone has personal tastes, too, that enter in the picture. I've enjoyed Martin's parties. Basics was my first rave ever and I really enjoyed both the Dec. Gathering and the Feb. Vision. I even liked the Home Base location. Nancy's lack of enjoyment at this party (as well as someone earlier talking about having a good time at Lucky Charms when everyone else hated it) goes to show you how individual perceptions very so hugely. I find that intensely interesting!!! hasta la vista, I'm leaving this oppressive office for some sun right about NOW...... (you can tell how bored I was today, by my number of posts). Ahh, tax dollars at work (JUST KIDDING!!!) love, kc kirstenc@uclink.berkeley.edu .*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.* "Talk is cheap..." On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Nancy wrote: > Does anyone else know if this is going to be another $25 RIP-OFF?! The > location is the same (or at least, is also noted as "20 minutes east of San > Francisco"), so expect a ridiculous price. And I don't know if bringing a > toy at Christmas for a generous $5 off of ___!!!$25!!!_____ constitutes a > "discount!" > > Apparently Gatherings started with the best of intentions. But all I know > is that I went to several of Martin's events last year, and felt exploited > each time. I don't like calling a voicemail and hearing, "Oh, the family's > coming together tonight! It's going to be so BBEEAUUUUTIFUULLL!! Tonight > we're creating love and unity, TOGETHER, yeah!!" > > And then I arrive to find 3000 other people lined up, clutching their $25 > in hand, to be patted down by big guards and thrown into cavernous space > without adequate sound and with the teeny vibe of the few earnest ravers in > the crowd attempting to make itself heard in the hugeness of the > massive.... > > The Gathering in December was a HUGE disappointment for me. I didn't > notice any attempt on the promoters part to promote PLUR. A LOT more could > have been with visuals, toys, vibe patrols, fruit, etc. to really enhance > peoples' experience and bring the thousands upon thousands together. > Instead, that location, not adequately decorated, was like several airplane > hangers, separating the crowd (with chain link fences!!). The sound got > lost, sounding almost metallic because the huge space didn't provide > cushioning for it. The only vibe came, as I said, from ravers who were > determined to make _something_ out of it. I know the several newbies that > were in our group did not have a good time at all, and did not understand > what the rest of us saw in raving. > > I just don't think unity should cost $25, and if it does, we should get a > little more for it!! Can someone tell me what they see in these events > that deserves our support??!! Because honestly, when I hear his messages > of "love" I only hear a conjob, and I can only wonder how rich he's grown > off of the scene. Please tell me if you think I'm wrong about Martin and > the Gathering Scam, because right now I wouldn't go to this thing if you > paid me (and we certainly won't be the ones rolling bank at the end of the > night!!). > > > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 17:35:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA08554; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:35:48 -0800 Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA08499; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:35:17 -0800 Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.0); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:39:00 +0000 X-Sender: ambient@netcom23.netcom.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:37:34 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: ambient@netcom.com (Joe Rice) Subject: Re: Gathering Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >In response to The Gathering this weekend I was wondering-- a few years ago >I went to a Gathering party in Richmond and it was to benefit Maliki. >Would anyone happen to know how he is? If my memory serves me right, he >was in a tragic accident after coming back from a full moon party back in >92 or 93? I was just curious as to how he is. I really have a special >place for Gatherings because of that time I saw him and he smiled at me... >it broke my heart! It's my understanding he's moved back to Britain. Martin (who does the Gathering) mentioned he spent some time with him when he was over there this winter and that he was doing well. Joe (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 17:47:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA09176; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:47:52 -0800 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA09165; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:47:49 -0800 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA02082; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:47:53 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:47:53 -0800 (PST) To: Nancy cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Nancy wrote: > 1) Spinal fluid draining is an unmitigated MYTH > but it does have the distinction of being the longest-lived rumor. > Back in the 70's when e was legal, preliminary tests were conducted tapping > peoples' spinal fluid. This led to the connection between e and spinal > fluid, an assertion which has been repeated ever since. I disagree. How about the rumor that LSD contains strychnine? "Oh my muscles ache, boy that acid had a lot of strychnine in it." The manufacture of LSD-25 is very involved and prone to errors. One of those errors is that impure manufacture can result in other amines(someone knowledgeble correct me if the terminology is off) of LSD are created, with effects that have not been fully studied, and this is where you get that crampy, achy feeling. Also, LSD is one of the few compounds that is active in *micrograms*. You can't fit enough strychnine on a piece of blotter to have any effect whatsoever on you. > 4) e is rarely pure > _This_ is the cause of most problems. Often cut with speed, it is > advisable not to ever ingest more than 2-3 pills (dosage should be directly > proportional to body weight). There is often acid and, rumored, heroin. > Since you don't know what you're popping in your mouth, BE CAUTIOUS. Actually you are more likely to see MDMA cut with synthetic mescaline rather than LSD, given that it comes in powdered form. And please, for the millionth time, there is no MDMA in common circulation that is cut with heroin. Herion is very costly and addictive. *WHY* would anyone cut MDMA with a more expensive substance, when the can sell it to regular users at a higher price? This is a very common myth: "Oh my, I feel sick, and the E that I got had a lot of brown specks in it, so it must have heroin in it." Ten to one those brown specks are safrole. How many people that make the above statement have actually done herion to make such a statement? > 4) E makes you depressed > I have at the moment forgotten the term for the chemicals released > by e (the ones that regulate your mood and make you happy - not > endorphins). But many people swing back to a "low" the next few days, and > rumors abound that e causes _long-term depression_. NOT VERIFIED. MDMA reduces serotonin levels. > Short-term depression is alleviated by vitamin concoctions that replenish > your temporarily low chemical supply (these are found in smart drinks, > fruit, and orange juice, conveniently :) . Rats who had damaged receptors > for these chemicals were found to have them REGENERATED within a year, i.e. > no long-term damage verified. There is no medical basis that I have ever seen for the above statement regarding vitamins. Certain B-complexs are believed to *aid* in alleving depression, but not eliminating it altogether. While it may indeed work for you, making a sweeping statement as fact is in no ones best interest if taken as gospel. > 2) Only deaths have been attributed to extreme DEHYDRATION > about 6 deaths in England in the last 10 years, due to extreme heat > and overcrowding, hours of dancing with no breaks, and lack of water. > People, take frequent rests and a lot of water (that is why bottles are > everywhere!!). Untrue. There have been a few cases of deaths attributed to an asymptomatic reaction to MDMA, including that of a person whose father occasionally posts on S.F. Raves. > Information on e is not authoritative. Because of the government's > prohibition on it, very few tests have been performed. However, there does > exist a body of information. Look it up at your local alternative > bookstore or on Hyperreal (lots of info). This is just a sketch - there is > TONS of info on all the tests, medical stories, and history of and > synthesis of the drug. This is the one thing I can agree with. Know what you are doing to your body. For most of us it's the only one ya got..... Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 17:52:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA09500; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:52:15 -0800 Received: from club.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA09493; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:52:10 -0800 Received: from [157.22.222.111] by club.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1b9); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:52:08 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 5 (Lowest) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:51:27 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Wayne D. Correia" Subject: a mildly tasteless joke (not rave related) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I hate to follow up my last (and serious) post about Lucky Charms with such trash, but, as they say "This information just in..." :-) flames to /dev/null please :-) --------- Little Johnny was sitting in class doing math problems when his teacher picked him to answer a question. "Johnny, if there were five birds sitting on a fence and you shot one with your gun how many would be left?" "None," replied Johnny, "cause the rest would fly away." "Well, the answer is four," said the teacher. "But I like the way you are thinking." Little Johnny said, "I have a question for you now. If there were three women eating ice cream cones in a shop, one licking her cone, the second biting her cone and the third sucking the cone, which one is married?" "Well," said the teacher nervously, "I guess the one sucking the cone?" "No," said Little Johnny, "the one with the wedding ring on her finger, but I like the way you are thinking." --------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 17:54:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA09678; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:54:53 -0800 Received: from relay3.smtp.psi.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA09671; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:54:49 -0800 From: Jeffrey_Coons@ccmail.rsco.com Received: from ccmail.rsco.com by relay3.smtp.psi.net (8.6.12/SMI-5.4-PSI) id UAA02588; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:54:49 -0500 Received: from cc:Mail by ccmail.rsco.com id AA828567024; Wed, 03 Apr 96 13:17:40 PST Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 13:17:40 PST Message-Id: <9603038285.AA828567024@ccmail.rsco.com> To: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson), sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Extractig foot from mouth Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: As Mark Twian said..."Better to sit quietly and be thought of as a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt." ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Extractig foot from mouth Author: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) at INTERNET Date: 4/3/96 1:04 PM Sorry, gang! Regarding Amy P.'s appeal for help, I realize that everyone's gonna have something different to say, and I'm no doctor, etc. What I should have said, and what I say now, is: find and read whatever documented research you can on the effects of any substance which concerns you. That's likely to be more reliable than polling people for their individual take. Yes? In Deepest Humility, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 17:57:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA09867; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:57:09 -0800 Received: from gatekeeper.bankamerica.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA09854; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:57:05 -0800 Received: by gatekeeper.bankamerica.com; id AA22388; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 17:57:10 -0800 Received: by iwww.bankamerica.com; id AA28203; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:58:13 -0800 Received: by mailhub.bankamerica.com; Wed, 3 Apr 96 17:52:22 -0800 X400-Received: by /c=US/admd=attmail/; Relayed; 03 Apr 96 17:50:00 -0800 X400-Received: by mta BofA-MTA in /c=US/admd=attmail/; Relayed; 03 Apr 96 17:50:00 -0800 X400-Mts-Identifier: [/c=US/admd=attmail/; 0013331632AC800B-attmail] Content-Identifier: 0013331632AC800B Content-Return: Allowed X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 ( 2 ) Conversion: Allowed Conversion-With-Loss: Allowed Priority: normal Disclose-Recipients: Prohibited Alternate-Recipient: Allowed X400-Originator: Michael.Minnich@BankAmerica.com X400-Recipients: non-disclosure; Message-Id: <04039617523000417100.bankamerica.com> Date: 03 Apr 96 17:50:00 -0800 From: Michael To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: moving to san francisco... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: As someone who used to be where you are at, Andy, I think I can give you some good insights. I just moved to San Francisco back in October from Washington, DC. Like you, I'd been in love with the city for a long time before I moved here. I'd visited it a couple of times, fallen in love with the scene, the scenery, the people, everything. I'd been planning to move out here for about two and a half years, but various things (mainly my own trepidation) conspired to keep me away. Finally, last September I packed everything I own up into a big 15 foot U-Haul truck and drove it cross the country with a friend of mine (an experience all its own). I was/am in a slightly different position than you, merely taking time off from school rather than having embarked on a career or anything. So I was also a little more cavalier about finding a job or a place to live. In fact, I was pretty much expecting to take a big cut in my standard of living, since I had heard that San Francisco's job market was oversaturated and its cost of living high. But things turned out completely in my favor. I had the benefit of knowing someone who had a room for rent before I arrived in SF. So although it was still a temporary place to live, I didn't have to fret about inconveniencing anyone or staying in a hotel or something. I did temp work for a while, through which I found a permanent job, which in fact *raised* my standard of living, much to my surprise. Moving out here has been the best thing I've done in a long time. I've met lots of cool people, made plenty of good connections, and generally been supremely happy. To answer your questions more specifically, yes the cost of living is fairly high. For me, coming from DC, it was about the same that I was used to actually. I don't know what Denver is like, though. If you're looking to live inside the city, studios and one bedrooms are about $500 and up, and you can expect to pay pretty close to one month's rent X 3 as a move in cost. (It is in fact illegal for a landlord to charge as much as rent X 3 to move in, but many ride the line just below that amount.) If you're willing to live in a group living situation, you could probably reduce your rent to the $350-400 range. One thing about San Francisco housing is that it's a bad time to be a rentor. Vacancies are scarce. But, as with anything, a little hard work and you'll find what you're looking for. You had mentioned moving out here with a bunch of people; one word of caution: big 3/4/5 bedroom flats or houses are *extremely* scarce. One advantage to living in the city is that you can jump around on the questionably reliable but unquestionably far-reaching public transportation system. Even outside the city, there's BART and CalTrans. If you're willing to live outside the city, everything is much cheaper, except perhaps transportation costs. As for the job market, everyone I know has had little difficulty finding a job out here. I'm not into web stuff, but I'm sure anyone can tell you that this is the place to be if you are. Sure, the market is a little more saturated, but I haven't heard of any scarcity of jobs in that field as of yet. As for the state of San Francisco itself, it seems to be on a tremendous upswing, even since I moved here. We have a new major, which most people seem to be happy about. California's economy is improving. According to recent surveys, civic pride and general satisfaction is increasing. As for the rave scene, it definitely seems to have matured a lot over the past couple of years. There is now a much wider range of music, and the previous lock-down on promotion and dj's seems to have been broken. So my final recommendation: DO IT! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 18:00:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA10158; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:00:05 -0800 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA10095; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:59:56 -0800 Received: (from arthurc@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id RAA22211; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:59:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:59:29 -0800 (PST) From: Arthur Chandler X-Sender: arthurc@pluto To: e c t o cc: andy@cmac20.colorado.edu, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: moving to san francisco... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Heya, Andy! And Bonjour, Brad! I've had a good job for years, so maybe I'm not the best person to dispense advice. But recently I've watched several folks, of varying abilities and personality types, go looking for jobs in the SF Bay Area. Based on what I've seen, and what you describe as your strengths and interests, here's my take on the situation. Corrections and additions from other SFRavers cheerfully accepted. 1) There are lots of folks who know weblore, and they are getting more numerous by the hour. Many of them have a good sense of design and what prospective employers might want. But these days, if you want the edge of employment, you have to be on top of as many of the following as you can: UNIX CGI Java C and/or C++ DOS/WINDOWS/MAC (all 3) experience SUN and/or SGI workstations Previous experience helping out people less knowledgeable than you are. 2) Folks won't hire you sight unseen. They want to look you in the eyes and assess how you'll fit in with the other people in the workplace. So best of all = come stay with a friend (preferably one with connections) in SF and start looking. You may even have to go to a temp agency to start with. Count on at least a solid month of hard looking plus disappointments before you score. 3) Show confidence without arrogance, and enthusiasm without naivete. Caramba ... now I'm sounding like Dear Abby. :<( Enough for now. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 18:01:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA10349; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:01:45 -0800 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA10310; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:01:32 -0800 Received: (from mist@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id SAA22362; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:01:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:01:13 -0800 (PST) From: JOSHUA MICHAEL ABERANT X-Sender: mist@pluto To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: tonight??!! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: do any of you know of anything going on tonight that is not 21+? i sure do have an itch to dance tonight! thanx love sarah From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 18:20:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA12300; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:20:30 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA12270; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:20:26 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:20:25 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Behlendorf To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: movie at crysalis (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: (remember folks, we have address-checks on sfraves and other hyperreal lists, so posting from a friend's account won't work unless they are also subscribed... thanx) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 3 Apr 1996 18:09:15 -0800 From: Justin Chornenky To: sf raves Subject: movie at crysalis movie at crysalis 4/1/96 Had a mixed time at crysalis (coulda just been me)- met some really neat people, though, and there were some ambient sets that were beautiful. my big question is there was this movie thery were showing of people locked in a cage wearing bio-hazard suits throwing bowling balls through TV sets. I was quite amused. anyone know where this came from? kc.roy (from another account) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 18:29:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA13081; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:29:20 -0800 Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA13076; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:29:17 -0800 Received: from 204.30.65.181 (sjx-ca24-21.ix.netcom.com [204.30.65.181]) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA05779 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:26:54 -0800 Message-ID: <31628C88.4865@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 07:34:48 -0700 From: Terence Estioko Reply-To: ctd-zine@ix.netcom.com Organization: CT D-Zine X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Full Moon!! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Thanks Ameba for posting the info about Raindance's full moon last night. It was a fantastic little party - a perfect cure for the Lucky Charmitis that I contracted on saturday. CT From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 18:32:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA13358; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:32:50 -0800 Received: from club.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA13350; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:32:45 -0800 Received: from [157.22.222.111] by club.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1b9); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:32:50 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:32:08 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Wayne D. Correia" Subject: Re: movie at crysalis (fwd) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: 3 Apr 1996 18:09:15 -0800 >From: Justin Chornenky >To: sf raves >Subject: movie at crysalis > > movie at crysalis 4/1/96 > >Had a mixed time at crysalis (coulda just been me)- met some really neat >people, though, and there were some ambient sets that were beautiful. > >my big question is there was this movie thery were showing of people locked in >a cage wearing bio-hazard suits throwing bowling balls through TV sets. I was >quite amused. >anyone know where this came from? > >kc.roy (from another account) The footage looked like it was from an event Vince and I went to in late 1994 here in SF (on Illinois Street, near the corner of 3rd and Marin!) called "Kill Your Television". Those people were in the "Crush Cage" killing old TV's, and all the while the local industrial band "Sharkbait" played along. I remember the lead singer yelling "Fuck it up! Fuck it up!" over and over again as brave participants killed TVs to the crowd's amusement. It was pretty cool. ________________________________________________________________________ Wayne D. Correia wayne@club.net 900 Tennessee Street TEL: +1.415.826.6000 http://www.club.net San Francisco CA 94107-3014 FAX: +1.415.826.6100 http://www.domain.net From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 18:35:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA13657; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:35:27 -0800 Received: from isis.source.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA13629; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:35:19 -0800 Received: by isis.source.net (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) id SAA14489; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:32:24 -0800 From: "anne petrie" Message-Id: <9604031832.ZM14487@isis.source.net> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:32:09 -0800 In-Reply-To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) "Ecstasy Rumor and Fact" (Apr 3, 4:51pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy), sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Thanks for the clear, informative post Nancy! I have a few little additions: >2) addiction is virtually impossible >One of the distinguishing aspects of ecstasy is the fact that its >effects diminish with increased use. Several days-to-one-week seems to be >the necessary spacing between doses in order to achieve the same effect >(and many people recommend one month or more). People can take 3 pills >over 12 hours, for instance, but 3 pills two days later will not achieve >very much. Ahem, "physical addiction" may be virtually impossible, however "psychological addiction" is something that many ravers have seen or experienced. This is very real! Some people feel that a psychological addiction is actually worse than a physical addiction. This is due to the fact that a true physical addiction is temporary and lessens with time spent away from the drug; whereas a psychological addiction can last ad infinitum. I don't mean to argue semantics, this is just my two cents. warmly, -- Anne Petrie 3rd Wave Solutions E-mail: anne@3ws.com Remember, if you breathe and persist anything is possible. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 18:47:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA14575; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:47:03 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA14541; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:46:57 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:46:57 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Behlendorf To: Michael cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: moving to san francisco... In-Reply-To: <04039617523000417100.bankamerica.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On 3 Apr 1996, Michael wrote: > You had mentioned moving out here with a > bunch of people; one word of caution: big 3/4/5 bedroom flats or houses are > *extremely* scarce. Actually, speaking as someone who's been looking for good one-bedrooms, I'd say the other end of the scale is just as scarce, with 2-3 bedroom apartments or flats being the most available. The cost per person certainly goes down with the larger places too. > As for the job market, everyone I know has had little difficulty finding a job > out here. I'm not into web stuff, but I'm sure anyone can tell you that this > is the place to be if you are. Sure, the market is a little more saturated, > but I haven't heard of any scarcity of jobs in that field as of yet. Nope! Not here. :) > So my final recommendation: DO IT! Same here. I've never regretted it. Brian --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- brian@organic.com | We're hiring! http://www.organic.com/Home/Info/Jobs/ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 18:52:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA14863; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:52:14 -0800 Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA14855; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:52:06 -0800 Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA008476397; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:53:18 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 18:53:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam To: Nancy Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I have never been to a Martin party -I mean rave- that I have not enjoyed. I came into the scene in 1993, the year I later learned was the scene's low point. I did attend some rather crappy raves, but there was usually a Basics, Gathering or Vision every other month or so, and each party more than made up for any lame raves. I've had some of my best and most memorable times at these raves. They cannot and should not be compared to smaller, more underground parties. If you do go in with that expectation, prepare to be disappointed. I've paid $20 for parties that delivered **MUCH** less than Gatherings, Basics, & Visions. I look at what I am getting for my money (which you, Nancy, see differently). I am getting an ENORMOUS sound system - I've never seen them as huge as that (the ones they use at the outdoor Livermoore location and @ Richmond Civic Centre) and they still don't hurt my ears. I get plenty of free water, I get a nice wide open space to dance and it is NOT TOO HOT!! I get really REALLY good vibes from many many people, the dj's ALWAYS deliver and get the crowd worked up into a frenzy. Plus I have never EVER been to a massive rave other than G,BorV where at the end eveyone forms a giant circle holding hands. My $20 is also going for a legally rented out space that is SAFE to use and will not get busted. I also usually get to see an incredible laser show (one of my secret passions!) And the visuals in general have never been a disappointment. Most of these factors, including the security, costs alot of money. It also takes alot of time, effort, energy and dedication to promote a party of this size. Raves this size have a certain awesomeness *BECAUSE* of its vast size that cannot be found at smaller parties. The excitement is different and even the acoustics are different sounding in such a vast space. Almost echoey. You can loose yourself if the crowd and be autonomous if you wish, or you can join your group of buddies. It is like being on the very edge of chaos and it still retains enough control to keep from falling off. :) Wayne had mentioned in his Lucky Charms post about how promoters who put on such massives have an enormous responsibility for how raves are percieved by society at large since so many more people are exposed to a massive. Cruel World failed miserabley in the past as has Banok Tribe. In the 4+ years that Martin has been throwing raves of this size, he has yet to majorly fuck up. I think he and his crew are doing a MARVELOUS job of "Always, always keeping it alive." :):) See you all at THE GATHERING this Saturday night. I am truely looking forward to it! :):) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! love, Amy --------------- | _ ,/| | | '\`o O' | | =(_^_)= | Amy Starkey | |U| | sac41673@saclink1.csus.edu | | | | --------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 19:14:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA16825; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:14:43 -0800 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA16810; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:14:39 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA27996 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:14:45 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA28779 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:11:07 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:11:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199604040311.TAA28779@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >Does anyone else know if this is going to be another $25 RIP-OFF?! The >location is the same (or at least, is also noted as "20 minutes east of San >Francisco"), so expect a ridiculous price. And I don't know if bringing a >toy at Christmas for a generous $5 off of ___!!!$25!!!_____ constitutes a >"discount!" (snip) >I just don't think unity should cost $25, and if it does, we should get a >little more for it!! Can someone tell me what they see in these events >that deserves our support??!! Because honestly, when I hear his messages >of "love" I only hear a conjob, I have to agree with Nancy. A massive necessarily means lots of people. It should either 1) cost less, or 2) be IMPRESSIVE. In fact, IMHO, anything over $15 better be pretty darn good: killer sound, huge visuals, serious lighting, two or more LARGE dance rooms and at least one good ambient space with it's own visuals. It should come complete with the "community" message. Nancy hit it dead on: if it's going to advertise a given theme, it should be produced in the spirit of that theme. Towards that end, maybe some of the massives should have a single sound before giving directions: KA-CHING! (ooo I'll probably get flamed for that statement...oh well...) I would *like* to go to the Gathering Saturday night just because so many people said so many good things about it last time... but if it's going cost that much... eeeesh....... By the way, who's the guy that's on the Gathering voice message? Is he Irish or Jamaican? Or both? Or what? S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 19:14:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA16837; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:14:45 -0800 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA16820; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:14:40 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA28000; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:14:47 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA28828; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:11:12 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:11:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199604040311.TAA28828@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JOSHUA MICHAEL ABERANT From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: tonight??!! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >do any of you know of anything going on tonight that is not 21+? i sure >do have an itch to dance tonight! You're not over 21? You suck. And we wouldn't want to party with you anyway. JUST KIDDING! Ok, lessee... I think Quantum was the only thing, and that's moving to the weekend. There's an FMR tonight though... Don't know the number... Does anyone here have the number for the FMR tonight? S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 19:40:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA19594; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:40:39 -0800 Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA19519; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:40:28 -0800 Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.0); Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:44:25 +0000 X-Sender: ambient@netcom23.netcom.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:42:59 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: ambient@netcom.com (Joe Rice) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I'm not going to say too much, only that Martin's heart is in the right place and he's definitely not getting rich off of these parties. Part of why they're expensive is because he does things _the right way_. All permits, cooperation with local city officials and police departments, insurance, etc. He's also flying out two pretty damn big names from England for this party: David Holmes and Alex Paterson (Orb). Martin's Irish - that's who you hear on the message. Joe (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 19:58:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA20966; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:58:01 -0800 Received: from CyberGate.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA20954; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:57:58 -0800 From: morton@CyberGate.COM Received: by CyberGate.COM (8.6.12/3.1.090690-Cybergate Information Services) id EAA29497; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 04:01:19 GMT Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:01:19 -0800 (PST) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Moving to SF from Fresno?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: OK...here's the deal. I've been tossing around the idea of moving to SF, or in the near area of it, for about 3 weeks now. Now I've been reading that others want to do the same and thought I'd share with all you San Franciscans (and to others in surrounding areas) what I'm debating with. Right now I'm in the Nursing Program at CSU Fresno. I hate it...the school, not the program. I totally disagree with the teaching rationale here, and I also dart up to SF every chance I get. Hence, my grades just aren't that great this semester. Oh...I have 2 years to go (been going FT for 3 already). I live in a great 3 bedroom condo (my share is 250 + util) with roommates whom I get along with relatively well, and I have a great job with a promise of a "Nurse Apprentice" position after this semester. The dilema is this: If I move, I'll be paying more rent for a MUCH smaller room I'm sure, I'll be living with strangers, and I'll have to find a new job that pays as well if not better than mine. What's the hospital situation there? Just scared to take the plunge.... What should I do friends? I feel like I'll be making my life much harder than it needs to be, but I love being up there. It kills me to read about all the parties people are going to. Would I even graduate if I were there.......:) Input would be appreciated. Thanks friends. Marty From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 20:07:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA21785; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:07:13 -0800 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA21779; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:07:10 -0800 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA09178; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:07:15 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:07:14 -0800 (PST) To: Joe Rice cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Joe Rice wrote: > I'm not going to say too much, only that Martin's heart is in the right > place and he's definitely not getting rich off of these parties. Part of > why they're expensive is because he does things _the right way_. All > permits, cooperation with local city officials and police departments, > insurance, etc. That's great, but I still don't believe he isn't make a *substantial* amount of money off these parties. I sent a message to Martin asking him about the price of his parties, and offering suggestions, after the last $25 dollar party. A message that I spent 2 hours composing. I sent it a total of three times, and never received a response. So color me jaded as to his intent. $25+ is too much for a party. Pay it, or get in on the guest list, as many of the people attempting to justify the cost do... Have fun. Enjoy. Spread all that PLUR talk to those that can afford that $25 right along with you. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 20:08:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA21943; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:08:26 -0800 Received: from elaine27.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA21938; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:08:23 -0800 Received: from localhost (mohack@localhost) by elaine27.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA14749 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:08:27 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine27.Stanford.EDU: mohack owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:08:27 -0800 (PST) From: Kristofer Ananda Carrison X-Sender: mohack@elaine27.Stanford.EDU To: sfraves Subject: ComeUnity anyone? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Melissa and I are going, and we want to meet everyone! Keep on the lookout for us, 'cause we want to share our bandaids. I'll be wearin' Melissa's "Good Girl" shirt. Melissa will be in the ever-so-practical jeans and green T. Look for her tattoos. Can I bring a video camera into the club? Perky Boobs Flying Everywhere Krishna- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 20:13:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA22580; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:13:50 -0800 Received: from worm.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA22571; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:13:47 -0800 Received: (from moonpup@localhost) by worm.hooked.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA25578; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:13:51 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:13:51 -0800 From: Milton Cecil Message-Id: <199604040413.UAA25578@worm.hooked.net> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: (BSP) tahoe tapes Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: if anyone is going to community who wanted the tahoe tapes, let me know.....I'll be at community tonite........call me or e-mail me....415-337-6666 moonpup From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 20:26:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA23561; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:26:20 -0800 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA23555; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:26:16 -0800 Received: (from mist@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id UAA01313; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:25:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:25:15 -0800 (PST) From: JOSHUA MICHAEL ABERANT X-Sender: mist@pluto To: Joe Rice cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Body Electro tonight In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Joe Rice wrote: > Somebody asked about Body Electro - it's happening tonight @ Bahia Cabana > and Daum (Freaky Chakra) will be performing live. > > Joe > > oh gee is this 18+? pleeze tell me it is, pleeze, pleeze, pleeze!!!! luv sarah From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 20:38:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA24752; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:38:35 -0800 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA24743; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:38:31 -0800 Received: (from tas12@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id UAA02072; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:38:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 20:38:26 -0800 (PST) From: TALILLA SCHUSTER X-Sender: tas12@pluto To: Nancy cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Just a little note on seratonin levels after taking e: not to condone taking medicine that is not prescribed to you, but my friend in NYC sends some of her Prozac for me to take after taking e. Since Prozac does the opposite of e (it increases seratonin levels), taking *one* afterwards seems to make me feel better. This has absolutely NO scientific basis, that I know of, but it helps ME recover. Again, I'm not condoning or advertising this, but it sort of makes sense. Also, while I'm here, I may as well introduce myself: I used to go to parties all the time, but a combination of being with the wrong people, who were on the wrong drugs, plus getting tired of worrying about not being 21 (I'm 19) and a medical thingy made the scene sort of lose its luster...Well, I still haven't gone to a party in months, but I'm regretting my hasty abandonment and I'm re-evaluating the place that raves have in my life. I miss it, ya know? So I've joined this list to create a different foundation for myself. By communicating (or mostly watching, as of late) with SFRaves, I'm starting to re-establish why I started raving in the first place, instead of keeping my not-so-great memories. When I find faith again, and trustworthy people, I foresee many wonderful experiences. Tell me what you think. AND, lastly, to anybody thinking of moving here, as I did recently from Massachusetts (any New Englanders out there?) there is a service called Roommate Referral which is very helpful to find nicely located places in your price range. It means moving in w/ ppl you don't know, but that can be kind of an adventure. Also, I had NO problem finding work, but my work is completely un-computer related, so that might be different. As far as the feel of SF, it changes all the time, in each neighborhood, yet it is usually good and beautiful (talk about some over-used ajectives, eh?). To me, it seems that California can be everything sometimes, and other times nothing. Basically, it is a place, that can offer you a lot, but you have to be willing to grab it. I guess anywhere is like that. If you've been thinking of moving here, do it, because that way your questions will be answered. Sorry to have rambled...Talilla From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 22:02:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA01261; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:02:35 -0800 Received: from cti02.citenet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id WAA01254; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:02:32 -0800 Received: from [206.123.34.81] (g34-81.citenet.net) by cti02.citenet.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01693; Thu, 4 Apr 96 01:01:48 EST Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 01:10:03 -0500 To: "anne petrie" From: ecto@citenet.net (e c t o) Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact Cc: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy), sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: At 6:32 PM 4/3/96, anne petrie wrote: >Thanks for the clear, informative post Nancy! > >I have a few little additions: > >>2) addiction is virtually impossible > >One of the distinguishing aspects of ecstasy is the fact that its >>effects diminish with increased use. Several days-to-one-week seems to be >>the necessary spacing between doses in order to achieve the same effect >>(and many people recommend one month or more). People can take 3 pills >>over 12 hours, for instance, but 3 pills two days later will not achieve >>very much. > >Ahem, "physical addiction" may be virtually impossible, however "psychological >addiction" is something that many ravers have seen or experienced. This is >very real! Some people feel that a psychological addiction is actually worse >than a physical addiction. This is due to the fact that a true physical >addiction is temporary and lessens with time spent away from the drug; whereas >a psychological addiction can last ad infinitum. I don't mean to argue >semantics, this is just my two cents. No, it's not semantics i think. With the one (physical) addiction there is a lowering of the bodies homeostatic levels so the body REQUIRES something to be ingested in order to maintain balance. I'm guessing that because e doesn't affect the neurochemical homeostatis (like the way nicotine and heroin can) your body won't crave it. Your mind, though, because it may (in a kinda pavlovian way) associate those feelings of peace, love and connectedness with a pill, can crave for it because it wants those feelings. I think the truth of it (for me at least) is that happiness and peace _doesn't_ come in a pill, it's something you have to look inside for. I suppose, though, that because peace and happiness aren't 'buyable' that makes those feelings all the more valuable :) :) brad oh, btw... Sunny Days Sweeping the Clouds Away! > > . -- . > ( ) > ( (/oo\) ) > ( \''/ ) WW > ( \/ ) wwwwww /__\ > ( ) w"ww ww"w | oo | _WWWWW_ > ( ) W o""o W (o)(o) (|_()_|) / o o \ (+)(+) > oo ( )W ______ W w" "w \__/ (| __O__ |)/ \ > w"()"w ( ) "w \_\/_/ w" W -====- W /|\/|\ \ \___/ / \ -==- / > W -==- W ' -- ' ww""wwwwww""ww "w w" |||||||| /-------\ \ / > "wwww" = = |||||||||||| w""""""""""w |||||||||=========| <\/\/\/> > w" "w = = ||||||||||||W W|||||||||=========| / \ > Elmo Big Bird Oscar Cookie Monster Bert Ernie Kermit > =====================/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\================== \|/ ectographics: print and online design --O-- ecto@citenet.net >> ecto@magnet.ca >> /|\ http://www.magnet.ca/~ecto /---\ /-----\"second star on the right, straight on til morning" - peter pan /_______\-========\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/================= From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 22:04:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA01385; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:04:09 -0800 Received: from well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA01378; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:04:06 -0800 Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA16886; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:04:09 -0800 From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9604032203.ZM16880@well> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:03:57 -0800 In-Reply-To: illumin8 "1200 fer sale!" (Apr 4, 1:42pm) References: <3164424E.4723@frequency-8.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: illumin8 , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: 1200 fer sale! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Just a note, my friends at Platinum here in Portland (who sell more 1200s on the west coast than anyone except Pro Sound, or so they say and I have no reason to dispute it) tell me that Technics is raising the wholesale prices considerably, and retail costs for new 1200s *over* $500 are coming in the near future. I think both Platinum and Pro Sound will continue slightly below that mark. But strong demand for the unit and changes in the dollar/yen exchange rate are leading to the increased prices. phred From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 22:07:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA01682; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:07:25 -0800 Received: from well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA01675; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:07:23 -0800 Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA18421; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:07:26 -0800 From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9604032207.ZM18418@well> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:07:19 -0800 In-Reply-To: JONAS THE ESKIMO BOY "the well" (Apr 3, 3:44pm) References: <01I33Z2OSYT2QT7R7Y@SONOMA.EDU> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: JONAS THE ESKIMO BOY , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: the well Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I think I can tell you a lot more about the Well :-) But I won't do it here on the list, send me mail if you want more info., There are a small number of us stalwart sf-ravers on the Well also. see you in the future phred From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 22:18:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA02475; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:18:05 -0800 Received: from well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA02470; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:18:02 -0800 Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA22958; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:18:05 -0800 From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9604032217.ZM22952@well> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:17:58 -0800 In-Reply-To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) "Ecstasy Rumor and Fact" (Apr 3, 4:51pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy), sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: At the risk of helping to reignite the long and huge convoluted wrangle over MDMA, there are two things about Nancy's post that deserve comment. First, there have been a lot more than six deaths in E-related circumstances in Britain over the last decade. Not hundreds, but a lot. Dehydration may be one proximate cause, but it also appears that *overhydration* may also be at issue. There is also strong evidence that a very few people may have a toxic and even fatal reaction to E itself. Second, contrary to Nancy's statement, it appears that the "bunk E" issue is also misunderstood. Testing in Dutch clubs and elsewhere has shown that "cut" or otherwise tampered with E is rare if not unknown. The process used to make the compound may have more or less purity, that's for sure. But quality control problems should not be confused with dilution issues. I have yet to hear of a reliable instance where MDMA has been commingled with other substances, though it's not impossible to imagine. What usually seems to be the case is other things being fraudulently sold as E, from Vitamin C (don't laugh, I've heard of this happening) to speed and many other possibilities. I think it is critically important to neither understate nor overstate the problems and characteristics of this drug. The same goes for any other. Again, as Brian pointed out, hyperreal has an excellent source of *solid( information on this and many other substances. phred From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 22:29:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA03779; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:29:35 -0800 Received: from well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA03773; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:29:32 -0800 Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA27552; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:29:38 -0800 From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9604032229.ZM27550@well> Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:29:32 -0800 In-Reply-To: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) "Re: The Gathering Scam" (Apr 3, 7:11pm) References: <199604040311.TAA28779@shellx.best.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream), sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: yes, it's true, with a name like Martin O'Brien you could be Irish OR Jamaican. But in this case, I can assure you, the former. Just ask him to say "Jah Rastafari" and you'll see what I mean :-) phred From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 22:35:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA04445; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:35:40 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA04440; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:35:37 -0800 Received: from [205.134.228.73] (ppp073-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.73]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id WAA20403 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:35:40 -0800 X-Sender: sddpw@pop.sirius.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:31:56 +1200 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: sddpw@sirius.com (Shimako-Dominguez Department of Public Works) Subject: ambient recommendations Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I am hoping someone could recommend a good ambient buy. I am looking trippy, pretty, whatever, but the most important thing to me is I want HIGH QUALITY. I want to hear something from an ambient artist/DJ. I do not want a compilation CD, but am open to the idea if someone knows of a mixed one. I can't stand when you buy an ambient CD and there's a pause after each song. Ruins the whole thing for me. SO, who are your favorite ambient DJs, do they have mix tapes, know of any good CDs, all that good stuff. Oh, yeah, P.S. - Hate to ask, but I'm new to the list. What is PLUR? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Wed Apr 3 22:47:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA05599; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:47:50 -0800 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA05586; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:47:47 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA01499 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:47:54 -0800 Received: (kcroy@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA10854 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:44:21 -0800 From: kcroy Message-Id: <199604040644.WAA10854@shellx.best.com> Subject: re:ambient rec's To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 22:44:20 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 881 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Thaemlitz on the novamute label. havent heard soil, their newest, but the 94 release is great. very beautiful. newage ambience: Steve roaches DREAMTIME RETURN the eternal orb stuff: etc, etc... these are the three in my cd changer right now, so thats what you get. hyperreal has a top 10 ambient listing somewhere, though i disagreed with some of them :) it all depends on what you are looking for. theres stuff to dance to, stuff to sleep to, stuff to do, well, whatever to. Man with no name is some decent digital work. the infinity project made me happy for a long time (psyhcadelic trance, i guess) gotta go back top work. actually, you want some really fucking ambient stuff, like new age from hell (but also some great india/techno -not goa-) chech out www.hos.com im workingon their site right now, acutally, but uh.. BLACK MARBLE, maybe is a good CD. kc o.e.t From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 00:15:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id AAA16707; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 00:15:39 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA16699; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 00:15:37 -0800 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp045-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.45]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id AAA25151 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 00:15:12 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960404081448.006f6790@moon.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@moon.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 00:14:48 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Spiritual 99 Subject: Serotonin Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: oops. this seems to have gotten a bit longer than i expected. >Just a little note on seratonin levels after taking e: not to condone >taking medicine that is not prescribed to you, but my friend in NYC >sends some of her Prozac for me to take after taking e. Since Prozac does >the opposite of e (it increases seratonin levels), taking *one* afterwards >seems to make me feel better. This has absolutely NO scientific basis, >that I know of, but it helps ME recover. Again, I'm not condoning or >advertising this, but it sort of makes sense. well.. prozac does increase serotonin levels, but it takes at least a week before the drug takes effect. when you take a serotonin-reuptake-inhibitor (like prozac) you slowly rebuild your serotonin levels and keep it there. what you are probably experiencing is the placebo effect. actually, i felt the same placebo effect when i started taking prozac while seriously depressed. Two hours after taking the pill i felt great, even though there was no way that the prozac could have taken effect yet. however, if it makes you feel good, one pill is virtually harmless. some ginseng taken after e would probably make you feel better too. supposedly it raises serotonin levels also (i think it can fix your car too...) but yes, serotonin does seem to be linked with depression, as do other neurotransmitters, though seemingly not to as great an extent. with regards to what serotonin does: serotonin is a neurotransmitter. basically what it does is facilitate (sp?) the "sparks" that jump between neurons. if your levels are low, your neurotransmitters won't be as responsive (i.e. you feel like shit). there are other neurotransmitters, which i cannot remember the names for at this point. Various other anti-depressants which are newer than prozac attack both serotonin and other neurotransmitters. Incidently, it is believed (by some, anyway) that an overabundance of serotonin can cause people to think more clearly and feel better. This could be partly why LSD and E feel so good, as both raise serotonin levels (temporarily). LSD and E do to your serotonin levels what sugar does to your glycogen levels when you are playing sports- bring it up for a while, but then send you down lower than before. It is essential, just as in sports, to recover to your 'normal' levels before throwing your body out of whack again. Of course, other drugs are purported to raise serotonin levels, most infamously the 'smart drugs'. I don't feel like going into this at the moment, although they certainly do have a visible effect on rave culture.. smart drinks anyone? Generally, use caution when dealing with your brain. It's the most delicate part of your body and it is in your best interest not to fuck it up. If you are depressed to start with, E will make you feel good for a while, but for a couple days afterwards you are going to feel even worse. This is not such a good thing. Better would be to deal with the depression (yes, it can be treated as a medical illness) before tweaking your mind further out of shape. I have had a fair deal of experience with prozac and similar drugs, and can say that they are very useful in pulling yourself out of a depressive state. regarding prozac again, if you don't need it, don't take it. prozac will not have a positive effect on serotonin levels if yours are 'normal' already. you'll probably just get a couple unwanted side effects. again, why fuck with your own head? be careful out there! peace brendan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 00:41:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id AAA18260; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 00:41:35 -0800 Received: from oregon.uoregon.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA18255; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 00:41:32 -0800 Received: from OREGON.UOREGON.EDU by OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #13764) id <01I34HYYA2HS8ZFRM8@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU>; Thu, 04 Apr 1996 00:41:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 00:41:57 -0800 (PST) From: drenalin Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-reply-to: To: blkadder@value.net Cc: Joe Rice , sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I'd just like to point out that it seems this thread is all too much trying to attach a monetary value to something that can't be expressed in terms of money (i.e. PLUR). I'll admit that $25 may be out of someones budget, but I can easily see how Martin can come away with little to show in the pocket book from parties I have done. There are several different ways to throw a party and different people have different ideas on how to throw a party. I recently had an interesting conversation where a person I'm working with in Oregon thought it was *really* rude that we dont pay our djs. While I would disagree it just goes to show that niether one of us is really right how ever you argue it is what I am trying to say. Whether or not you agree with Martin and how he throws his parties, you should be thankful that we have a scene diverse enough that you can choose another party as an option, usually one that might be free. > On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Joe Rice wrote: > > > I'm not going to say too much, only that Martin's heart is in the right > > place and he's definitely not getting rich off of these parties. Part of > > why they're expensive is because he does things _the right way_. All > > permits, cooperation with local city officials and police departments, > > insurance, etc. > > That's great, but I still don't believe he isn't make a *substantial* > amount of money off these parties. I sent a message to Martin > asking him about the price of his parties, and offering suggestions, after > the last $25 dollar party. A message that I spent 2 hours composing. I sent > it a total of three times, and never received a response. So color me > jaded as to his intent. Trust me as much as I'd like to reply to all the Cloud Factory, and Daydream mail I get there is no way I could...with 150+ emails a day average in my mailbox it just doesnt work, but Martin not emailling you back is not any sign of his intent imho. > > $25+ is too much for a party. Pay it, or get in on the guest list, as > many of the people attempting to justify the cost do... Have fun. Enjoy. > Spread all that PLUR talk to those that can afford that $25 right along > with you. > > Black Adder condemn, condemn, condemn... there really is no need for it. and oddly enough i've seen you contributing to what you believe in so no one can say you are sitting back and complaining and not doing somehtning about it, I just dont understand why you are so concerned with it? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 04:35:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id EAA10795; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 04:35:10 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id EAA10790; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 04:35:07 -0800 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA11968; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 04:35:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) id EAA11444; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 04:32:06 -0800 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199604041232.EAA11444@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam To: drenalin@oregon.uoregon.edu (drenalin) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 04:32:05 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "drenalin" at Apr 4, 96 00:41:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Hi, My 2 cents: Martin is one of the last promoters who actually is able to throw massives these days. He's managed to build a good history of bringing them off without ruining his reputation or hurting the rave scene. Can other big promoters say the same? He is one of the few "commercial" promoters I would trust to throw a big party. He knows his stuff. And he is way way into raving. I would gladly shell out 25$ for one of his parties. -Ann From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 04:40:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id EAA11046; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 04:40:04 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id EAA11040; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 04:40:02 -0800 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id EAA15917; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 04:40:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from anthrax@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) id EAA11678; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 04:38:03 -0800 From: Ann Elizabeth Loraine Message-Id: <199604041238.EAA11678@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact To: phred@well.com (Fred Heutte) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 04:38:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9604032217.ZM22952@well> from "Fred Heutte" at Apr 3, 96 10:17:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: A friend of mine went to a party recently and was sold something called "White lightening," or something like that. It was E laced with LSD, and it had a very unpleasant effect. My friend made the mistake of NOT asking what was in it and she suffered the results. People often don't bother to question the seller in enough detail. Another wise precaution is to find out who at the party has taken the same stuff and then ask them how they are doing with it. If you must indulge, you should be very careful about what you're buying and you should try to get a good recommendation from other customers. And if you are trying something for the first time, then you absolutely MUST be sure to let your companions know what you are doing so that if you have a bad reaction, they can tell the emergency room folks exactly what you took. And if you are really smart, you should save a bit of it so that it can be analyzed later. -Ann From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 06:32:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id GAA18448; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 06:32:41 -0800 Received: from relay3.smtp.psi.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id GAA18441; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 06:32:38 -0800 Received: from mx.macrovision.com by relay3.smtp.psi.net (8.6.12/SMI-5.4-PSI) id JAA14791; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:32:36 -0500 Received: from Microsoft Mail (PU Serial #1042) by mx.macrovision.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.8d for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1996Apr04.062700.1042.25548; Thu, 04 Apr 1996 06:29:38 -0800 From: mlogan@macrovision.com (Michael T. Logan) To: anthrax@uclink.berkeley.edu (Ann Elizabeth Loraine), phred@well.com (Fred Heutte) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com (sfraves) Message-ID: <1996Apr04.062700.1042.25548@mx.macrovision.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail via PostalUnion/SMTP for Windows NT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Organization: Macrovision Corp., Sunnyvale, CA Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 06:29:38 -0800 Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > A friend of mine went to a party recently and was sold something called > "White lightening," or something like that. It was E laced with LSD, and > it had a very unpleasant effect. My friend made the mistake of NOT > asking what was in it and she suffered the results. E & A. Used to be called candy flipping. Not sure if anyone does it anymore, but the one time I did, it was one of the most awesome rides of my life :-) --Michael (another lurker) ********************************************** Michael T. Logan mlogan@macrovision.com I.S. Manager 72223.2155@compuserve.com Macrovision Corp. 1341 Orleans Drive +1.408.743.8448(v) Sunnyvale, CA 94089 +1.408.743.8548(f) ********************************************** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 07:38:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id HAA23607; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 07:38:47 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id HAA23601; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 07:38:45 -0800 Received: from julie.teleport.com (shakti@julie.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA17482 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 07:38:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from shakti@localhost) by julie.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA15825; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 07:38:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 07:38:44 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: frisco groovers Subject: non-rave: woo hoo! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: http://www.teleport.com/~shakti From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 08:02:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA25766; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 08:02:42 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA25741; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 08:02:36 -0800 Received: from julie.teleport.com (shakti@julie.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA29890 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 08:02:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from shakti@localhost) by julie.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA16908; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 08:02:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 08:02:34 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: frisco groovers Subject: non-rave: woops :) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: anybody wanna go skating in GG park monday? bren :) http://www.teleport.com/~shakti From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 08:12:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA26494; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 08:12:17 -0800 Received: from gw3.pacbell.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA26484; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 08:12:11 -0800 Received: from srv.PacBell.COM (mother.srv.PacBell.COM) by gw3.pacbell.com (5.x/PacBell-10/18/95) id AA22725; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 08:11:42 -0800 Received: from pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM by srv.PacBell.COM (4.1/Mother-7/26/95) id AA12675; Thu, 4 Apr 96 08:11:41 PST Received: by pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04381; Thu, 4 Apr 96 08:11:40 PST From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel) Message-Id: <9604041611.AA04381@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM> Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 4 Apr 96 8:11:39 PST In-Reply-To: ; from "Joe Rice" at Apr 3, 96 7:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Joe: > He's also flying out two pretty damn big names from England for this party: > David Holmes and Alex Paterson (Orb). I have a CD by a David Holmes called "This Film's Crap Let's Slash the Seats". Stupid title, but very nice ambient/techno music. Is this the same guy? Anyway, I'm looking forward to The Gathering. I've been to many of Martin's parties over the years, and while many have been duds IMO, many others have given me some of my most magical rave experiences. The Gathering parties I've been to have never failed to deliver the kind of vibe I rarely find at legal massives, and I know many people who rarely go to massives or to any event over $10 that will come out for a Gathering. Ultimately, it is the people that make the party. The last Gathering didn't have a lazer or free glowsticks at the door, but that didn't seem to matter much at the end when we danced together as a family. Big parties rarely have the Unity of smaller ones but if they can come close it can be pretty amazing. I'm happy to pay a premium for a safe, legal, comfortable environment where this can happen. Of course, our own attitudes will alter the experience. "Martin didn't answer my email, this party sucks!" "Not enough teddy bears, this party sucks!" "Martin's making money..." etc. Each of us has the power to tune in to the things that matter to us. For this weekend's Gathering, the experimental/ambient room has an incredible lineup so I'm going to have a hard time deciding where to plant myself. Seeya! Lee _________________________________________________________________________ lxfogel@pacbell.com ( ( ( ( ((0)) ) ) ) ) lee@hyperreal.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 08:35:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA28276; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 08:35:38 -0800 Received: from ftdetrck-doimsun1.army.mil by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA28246; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 08:35:33 -0800 From: ERIK_DUNKELBERGER@wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil Received: from wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil (WRSMTP-CCMAIL.ARMY.MIL [160.151.240.241]) by ftdetrck-doimsun1.army.mil (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA03808 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:50:55 -0500 Received: from ccMail by wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil (SMTPLINK V2.11) id AA828646555; Thu, 04 Apr 96 11:21:07 PST Date: Thu, 04 Apr 96 11:21:07 PST Message-Id: <9603048286.AA828646555@wrsmtp-ccmail.army.mil> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re[2]: moving to san francisco... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Andy and Brad, I've said "Fuck it" and I'm moving to SF by myself from DC at the end of April. A lot of what you said, Andy has been the way I've felt over the past years. California's been calling. And its been pretty hard for me to break away from everything. But it's now or never. I know not a sole in SF and I don't have a job yet (but I do have an apartment) and it scares the shit out of me. But I gotta do it. If it doesn't kill me, it will only make me stronger. I've come to trust myself and I know that it may be rough at first, but I'll pull through. My true friends in DC will always be good friends. And moving to a new place, I can only meet many more. I can't wait to go. I've been lurking on the list for several weeks now and I've been blown away by what I've read. I feel a great sense of community, respect, maturity, sense of one's self and love of life from this group. And I'm anxious to be a part of it. What a journey it will be! --erik From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 09:02:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA00753; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:02:18 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA00746; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:02:16 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA14039 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:02:03 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA18319; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:02:02 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA09433; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:01:58 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:03:43 -0800 To: morton@CyberGate.COM From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: Moving to SF from Fresno?? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Marty, You can make it all heppen. Get yerself over here, girl! Your family's waiting for you (if ya know what I mean). You KNOW there are some fine people here, ready and willing to help you in whatever way they can. The sacrifices you'd be making are well worth it. I don't have to ask anyone to back me up here, because I know many out there agree :) So, seriously think about it. Much love, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 09:07:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA01326; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:07:23 -0800 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA01313; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:07:14 -0800 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA02461; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:07:12 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:07:11 -0800 (PST) To: Ann Elizabeth Loraine cc: Fred Heutte , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact In-Reply-To: <199604041238.EAA11678@uclink.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Ann Elizabeth Loraine wrote: > A friend of mine went to a party recently and was sold something called > "White lightening," or something like that. It was E laced with LSD, and > it had a very unpleasant effect. My friend made the mistake of NOT > asking what was in it and she suffered the results. It sounds like "White Light" which from what I am told contains 5% synthetic mescaline. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 09:24:44 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA03009; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:24:44 -0800 Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA03004; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:24:41 -0800 Received: by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA23823; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:24:39 -0800 From: ccat@netcom.com (Chris Beaumont) Message-Id: <199604041724.JAA23823@netcom17.netcom.com> Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:24:39 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: from "Nancy" at Apr 3, 96 05:14:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1069 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Dear Nancy, I wouldn't be so quick to criticize Martin for his parties "vibe".. I think he's only reacting to a situation in which he has to deal with a lot more variables than most of the "fly by night" promoters. And that costs... He has a (IMHO)fairly good record in throwing parties... Remember, Martin actually hires quite a few people from the communities he throws parties in, and gets permits for them, etc... You know when you poy for one of his parties that at least it will go off.. unlike quite a few others.. I agree with you that a lot of the newer parties don't do anything near what they could do visually, etc... What do you expect? They don't have the competition they used to, and can get away with less... A lot less.. Give them shit.. and maybye they'll start spending money again.. When we were doing ToonTown, we would typically have a $7-10,000 budget for lighting alone... The last parties Ive seen with that kind of energy and visuals were the benefits for Malachy three years ago... Give them shit... maybye they'll listen.. -Chris. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 09:51:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA05362; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:51:17 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA05356; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:51:13 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA16499 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:50:38 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA23035; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:50:38 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA19477; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:50:34 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 09:52:20 -0800 To: Ann Elizabeth Loraine From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I remember White Lights. Definitely e, but VERY, VERY speedy :( Never again for this raver! Afterward, I learned that it's best to take 1/2, then wait about an hour and take the other half, to avoid the overwhelming "amped" feeling... Live and learn, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 10:02:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA06195; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:02:51 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA06190; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:02:49 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA17116 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:02:42 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA24274 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:02:41 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA22102 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:02:37 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:04:23 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re[2]: moving to san francisco... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > I can't wait to go. I've been lurking on the list for several weeks > now and I've been blown away by what I've read. I feel a great sense > of community, respect, maturity, sense of one's self and love of life > from this group. And I'm anxious to be a part of it. What a journey > it will be! > > --erik All right, guys, we got him fooled...er, I mean, we're waiting for you, Erik! :) Peace, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 10:11:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA06995; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:11:50 -0800 Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA06987; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:11:46 -0800 Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id KAA05458; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:10:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:10:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199604041810.KAA05458@precipice.v-site.net> X-Sender: geoffw2@v-site.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: geoffw@cybertribe.com (Geoff White) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >> On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Joe Rice wrote: >> >> > I'm not going to say too much, only that Martin's heart is in the right >> > place and he's definitely not getting rich off of these parties. Part of >> > why they're expensive is because he does things _the right way_. All >> > permits, cooperation with local city officials and police departments, >> > insurance, etc. >> >> That's great, but I still don't believe he isn't make a *substantial* >> amount of money off these parties. I sent a message to Martin >> asking him about the price of his parties, and offering suggestions, after >> the last $25 dollar party. A message that I spent 2 hours composing. I sent >> it a total of three times, and never received a response. So color me >> jaded as to his intent. > Dude, what is up with you? Do you have a personal vendetta against Martin? Where were you when these fools threw Lucy Charms? It may have not been $25 but people seem to think that they didn't get their money's worth. How many people do you know WHO HAVE BEEN to one of Martin's parties do you see complaining about the price? If it cost too much then don't go. I know another promoter who threw a $25 party that wasd absolutely wonderful, It was a large massive and I must say that it reminded me of the large Toon Towns of Old. He did it in a place that requird all kinds of insurance and off duty police and fees, and in the end THE VENUE TOOK ALL THE MONEY, made sure the IRS and ZFTB got paid took out their fees, some unexpected and gave them the rest 30 days later, the promoter broke even though the place was full. The naked truth is that if you want cheap parties, that's what the underground is for, have it in a park or some other place but you the promoter and the party goers are taking many calculated risks. Martin is one of the few (only) promoters that has the kind of record that he can challenge a permit denial in court because he dots all the I's and crosses the T's and his record with the community is impeccable. Martin makes a living through throwing parties and his clothing business, I hope he makes more than enough money to fullfill his dreams and to help build the infrastructure that we as a community will need when the parties are over some day. >Trust me as much as I'd like to reply to all the Cloud Factory, and >Daydream mail I get there is no way I could...with 150+ emails a day >average in my mailbox it just doesnt work, but Martin not emailling you >back is not any sign of his intent imho. > >> >> $25+ is too much for a party. Pay it, or get in on the guest list, as >> many of the people attempting to justify the cost do... Have fun. Enjoy. >> Spread all that PLUR talk to those that can afford that $25 right along >> with you. >> >> Black Adder > >condemn, condemn, condemn... > >there really is no need for it. and oddly enough i've seen you >contributing to what you believe in so no one can say you are sitting >back and complaining and not doing somehtning about it, I just dont >understand why you are so concerned with it? > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 10:13:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA07082; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:13:02 -0800 Received: from netcom19.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA07074; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:13:00 -0800 Received: from kencyr by netcom19.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id KAA12260; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:13:00 -0800 Message-ID: <31641126.2781E494@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 10:12:54 -0800 From: Jeremy Nauck X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SFRaves Mailing List Subject: Top ten lists? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: What does everyone think about starting some sort of 10 ten recommended songs/albums/compilations type of thingy? I'm always looking for new music and end up archiving everyone's mail whenever they recommend something! Any thoughts? Love, Jeremy -- ------------------------------------------------------ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 10:34:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA09173; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:34:30 -0800 Received: from firewall.island.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA09145; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:34:23 -0800 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by firewall.island.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA28012; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:41:04 -0800 Received: from island.island.com(199.4.85.33) by firewall via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma028007; Thu Apr 4 10:40:37 1996 Received: from hokkaido.island.com by island.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA03004; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:32:18 +0800 Received: by hokkaido.island.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02140; Thu, 4 Apr 96 10:32:18 PST Date: Thu, 4 Apr 96 10:32:18 PST From: peter@island.com (Peter Jones) Message-Id: <9604041832.AA02140@hokkaido.island.com> To: anthrax@uclink.berkeley.edu, epaul@Synopsys.COM Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com content-length: 747 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Fred Heutte is correct () "First, there have been a lot more than six deaths in E-related circumstances in Britain over the last decade. Not hundreds, but a lot. Dehydration may be one proximate cause, but it also appears that *overhydration* may also be at issue. There is also strong evidence that a very few people may have a toxic and even fatal reaction to E itself.... I think it is critically important to neither understate nor overstate the problems and characteristics of this drug. The same goes for any other." My son Morgan's death was "a fatal reaction to E itself." He died a year ago, on April 1. There will be other such deaths in the Bay Area. Peter Jones April 4, 1996 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 10:50:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA10627; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:50:21 -0800 Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA10609; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:50:10 -0800 Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.0); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:54:09 +0000 X-Sender: ambient@netcom23.netcom.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:52:45 -0800 To: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel) From: ambient@netcom.com (Joe Rice) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: At 8:11 AM 4/4/96, Lee Fogel wrote: >Joe: >> He's also flying out two pretty damn big names from England for this party: >> David Holmes and Alex Paterson (Orb). > >I have a CD by a David Holmes called "This Film's Crap Let's Slash the >Seats". Stupid title, but very nice ambient/techno music. Is this the >same guy? Yep, same guy, although he'll be DJing and I suspect it'll be more techno than much of his album is. btw, his new single "Gone" is essential. Joe (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 10:53:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA11068; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:53:18 -0800 Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA11058; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:53:07 -0800 Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.0); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:57:16 +0000 X-Sender: ambient@netcom23.netcom.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:55:51 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: ambient@netcom.com (Joe Rice) Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: At 9:07 AM 4/4/96, blkadder@value.net wrote: >On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Ann Elizabeth Loraine wrote: > >> A friend of mine went to a party recently and was sold something called >> "White lightening," or something like that. It was E laced with LSD, and >> it had a very unpleasant effect. My friend made the mistake of NOT >> asking what was in it and she suffered the results. > >It sounds like "White Light" which from what I am told contains 5% >synthetic mescaline. > > Black Adder Speaking of rumors and hearsay. =) I've heard similar tales, but basically the trick is to never trust a dealer. They usually don't know what they have and are just repeating what someone else up the line has told them. Now if someone can show me an NMR I'll be convinced. caveat emptor Joe (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 11:30:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA14611; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:30:35 -0800 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA14605; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:30:32 -0800 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA03157; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:30:27 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:30:27 -0800 (PST) To: drenalin cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, drenalin wrote: > Whether or not you agree with Martin and how he throws his parties, you > should be thankful that we have a scene diverse enough that you can > choose another party as an option, usually one that might be free. That does not mean that I should not be able to voice my opinion on the subject. I simply do not see the necessity to charge what is being charged, nor I have I been shown that necessity. So maybe it isn't anyones job to show me a damn thing. Fine, so I *ASKED* the promoter directly, and received no reply. > Trust me as much as I'd like to reply to all the Cloud Factory, and > Daydream mail I get there is no way I could...with 150+ emails a day > average in my mailbox it just doesnt work, but Martin not emailling you > back is not any sign of his intent imho. I have attempted to understand any reason that it is necessary to charge the amounts being charged. I can't get anyone knowledgable to respond. And I don't mean "Well I can see where he is not getting rich, etc." I mean real information, figures. And again, no one is obligated to show me squat. Fine, given that no one will show me anything, please don't expect me to suddenly change my opinion, or be any less vocal about my opinion. > > $25+ is too much for a party. Pay it, or get in on the guest list, as > > many of the people attempting to justify the cost do... Have fun. Enjoy. > > Spread all that PLUR talk to those that can afford that $25 right along > > with you. > > > > condemn, condemn, condemn... > > there really is no need for it. and oddly enough i've seen you > contributing to what you believe in so no one can say you are sitting > back and complaining and not doing somehtning about it, I just dont > understand why you are so concerned with it? Good question. (a condensed bit of history): When I first started going to parties, Toon Town and such, I had a decent job and could afford to go out. Well, this all changed and I went through a period of long-term unemployment. I was not "in the know" and the only parties I heard of were of the $20+ variety. And I really wanted to go out, but couldn't afford to(sounds of tiny violins playing in the background, I know...) To be a part of that community everyone was talking about. But I couldn't afford the price of admission. So guess I was out of luck. Well, my fortune changed again, I finally got an auto-accident insurance settlement(2+ years), a job, and a shiny new computer, a whole hell of a lot to be grateful for. So I was able to go out again, got more "connected," and found this great thing called S.F. Raves. And know what? I found all these great parties that we charging $5, $10, or were even *free* Imagine my amazement and suprise! Here all this time I thought it was necessary to pay $20 to go to a party, when the truth was that there were people out there putting on these parties out of pure love, out of their own pockets, making little or no money, just for the sheer pleasure of giving. Man, what a beautiful thing thinks I. "Where do I sign up?" So I found out, and did so. Please do not take my earlier statement as a blanket inditement of massives or $20+ parties. I have seen parties(NYE Toon Town) comes to mind, where I saw the money going into the party to justify the price of admission. I have been to a few of Martin's parties, Basics, Vision, and Freedom in the past. At no time did I see anything to justify the $20+ price of admission. The party at the Vallejo fairground especially comes to mind. One room, concrete, and little seating or lighting. Yes, I most certainly felt taken advantage of. So why do I care? Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 11:32:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA14753; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:32:30 -0800 Received: from shgc.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA14747; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:32:25 -0800 Received: from [171.65.76.81] by shgc.Stanford.EDU (8.7.4/inc-1.0) id TAA24754; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:32:18 GMT Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:32:18 GMT Message-Id: <199604041932.TAA24754@shgc.Stanford.EDU> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: piercy@toolik.Stanford.EDU (Mark Piercy) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Geoff White wrote: >I hope he makes more than enough money to >fullfill his dreams and to help build the infrastructure that we as a community >will need when the parties are over some day. Interesting, never thought about this- what will happen when we start to get into positions of power and start getting the financial means ect. to make powerfull decisions?, hopefully we wont just end up like the yuppies of the early 21 century. Mark *********************************************************** ____________________________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 11:44:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA15911; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:44:08 -0800 Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA15906; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:44:05 -0800 Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id LAA06241; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:44:52 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199604041944.LAA06241@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam To: piercy@toolik.Stanford.EDU (Mark Piercy) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:44:51 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199604041932.TAA24754@shgc.Stanford.EDU> from "Mark Piercy" at Apr 4, 96 07:32:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > > Geoff White wrote: > >I hope he makes more than enough money to > >fullfill his dreams and to help build the infrastructure that we as a community > >will need when the parties are over some day. > > Interesting, never thought about this- what will happen when we start to > get into positions of power and start getting the financial means ect. to > make powerfull decisions?, hopefully we wont just end up like the yuppies > of the early 21 century. > It seems that most ravers do not follow the traditional path to getting into positions of power and making money. I know many people who do their own thing, get successful by doing their own thing, and then put money back into the scene by buying soundsystems or generators ect. There are many people like this on this list. I think ravers have seen the path from hippie to yuppie and do not want to follow it. Not that ravers do not want to become financially stable and successful... We do. The difference is that ravers want to keep true spirituality in their life... something that many Yuppies (who are now more accurately described by the term "overclass"), have lost. -troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 11:44:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA15986; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:44:46 -0800 Received: from relay5.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA15980; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:44:44 -0800 Received: from uucp4.UU.NET by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQakag02311; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:44:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from rts2.UUCP by uucp4.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:44:45 -0500 Received: from hp700.unrrts.com (hp700.unrrts.com [198.252.162.70]) by rts.unrrts.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA12644; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:39:17 -0800 Received: from localhost (george@localhost) by hp700.unrrts.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA10575; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:42:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199604041842.KAA10575@hp700.unrrts.com> X-Authentication-Warning: hp700.unrrts.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com, george@unrrts.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Apr 1996 17:14:48 PST." Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 10:42:50 -0800 From: George Feil Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Well, I guess everything is relative to one's point of view. I thought the price was steep, but it was well made up for by the excellent DJ's that were on that night. And, at least, they weren't hitting you $2-3 every time you wanted to refill your water bottle, like they do at 914 King for Wicked. I found the ventilation very satisfying, too. I expressed back then that a few improvements could have been made. It seemed that those suggestions did get heard, because when I went to Vision last February, a lot of missings -- more exciting visuals (i.e. lasers), a larger soft chill-out zone, fruit, etc. were fulfilled. It isn't as though Martin has a lot of control over the fencing thing -- I like to think of it as a secret garden to descend into. There were moments at both The Gathering and Vision when I had random people come up and make all sorts of contributions -- either excellent neckrubs, lotion rubs, hugs, meditative momemts. The crowd may be more diverse here than at the underground parties -- but the spirit and vibe are definitely in there. I really hope you change your mind about going. I feel that we can all be a major influence on the vibe at a massive. When you notice someone not being in the vibe, why not introduce yourself, and contribute something? By bringing more awareness of PLUR and spirituality into the mix, we boost up the vibe for everyone. G From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 11:47:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA16373; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:47:00 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA16367; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:46:57 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA22209 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:46:48 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA03790; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:46:50 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA14319; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:46:46 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:48:28 -0800 To: piercy@toolik.Stanford.EDU (Mark Piercy) From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >Interesting, never thought about this- what will happen when we start to >get into positions of power and start getting the financial means ect. to >make powerfull decisions?, hopefully we wont just end up like the yuppies >of the early 21 century. > >Mark > What you mean "we", paleface? :) When you get to a position of power, please be kind to those of us who have no desire to hold such positions. In other words, I won't lead, but I'll follow... Viva la revolucion! - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 11:55:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA17896; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:55:20 -0800 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA17881; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:55:16 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (pool015.Max2.San-Francisco.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.99.15]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA11886; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:53:25 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 11:53:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199604041953.LAA11886@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: cnielsen@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jeffrey_Coons@ccmail.rsco.com From: Courtney Nielsen Subject: Re: Extractig foot from mouth Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: At 01:17 PM 4/3/96 PST, you wrote: > As Mark Twian said..."Better to sit quietly and be thought of as a > fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt." > > >______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: Extractig foot from mouth >Author: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) at INTERNET >Date: 4/3/96 1:04 PM > > >Sorry, gang! Regarding Amy P.'s appeal for help, I realize that everyone's >gonna have something different to say, and I'm no doctor, etc. What I >should have said, and what I say now, is: find and read whatever documented >research you can on the effects of any substance which concerns you. >That's likely to be more reliable than polling people for their individual >take. Yes? > >In Deepest Humility, > >- E > > > > > Hey all of you----- Leave Erik alone! none of y'all are doctors or psychopharmacologists. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 12:12:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA20399; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:12:23 -0800 Received: from netcom19.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA20391; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:12:19 -0800 Received: from kencyr by netcom19.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id MAA27659; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:12:11 -0800 Message-ID: <31642D0B.794BDF32@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 12:11:55 -0800 From: Jeremy Nauck X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SFRaves Mailing List Subject: Re: Top ten lists? References: <199604041947.LAA21208@shellx.best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: SDream wrote: > > >What does everyone think about starting some sort of > >10 ten recommended songs/albums/compilations type of thingy? > >I'm always looking for new music and end up archiving everyone's > >mail whenever they recommend something! Any thoughts? > > Love, > > Jeremy > > I have a feeling you're going to get zapped on this one, the same way that > guy got zapped for asking for people's votes for "best DJ". There's just > too much really good music out there for anyone to choose the "top 10" best. > And this scene is too anarchistic to allow anyone to stand up and state, > with authority, any definitive opinion on the topic without vehement > challenges... > > S Yeah, it's so diverse and immense that it's just not very feasible, how about this......Anyone heard any good tunes lately that just knocked their socks off? One of my all-time favs is Sun by the Ambush. It's labeled as a trance-sedated jungle album, and that describes it perfectly. Definately a must have IMO. If anyone's interested, I could dub a bit of it and post. The FSOL ISDN album makes for good background listening here at work, and helps relieve stress too! :^) J -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 12:12:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA20430; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:12:52 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA20422; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:12:49 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA23453 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:12:42 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA06010 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:12:45 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA19573 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:12:41 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:14:24 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >Please do not take my earlier statement as a blanket inditement of >massives or $20+ parties. I have seen parties(NYE Toon Town) comes to mind, >where I saw the money going into the party to justify the price of admission. >I have been to a few of Martin's parties, Basics, Vision, and Freedom in >the past. At no time did I see anything to justify the $20+ price of >admission. The party at the Vallejo fairground especially comes to >mind. One room, concrete, and little seating or lighting. Yes, I most >certainly >felt taken advantage of. > >So why do I care? > > Black Adder Without repeating more of his post, Black Adder has valid points to make, just like the rest of us. I, too, would be interested in seeing a balance sheet (the accountant in me talking) or other breakdown of the costs associated with a massive, and compare to the costs associated with a small UG party. It's fruitless to swat this ball back & forth if no one can provide sample data (witness my clueless post about MDMA recently). I was also not sufficiently impressed with the Vallejo affair to return, were they to hold another one there (I heard "we" lost that space due to tagging, but that's just what I heard). I feel the same about the Antioch party, though I don't recall the price of admission. Adder, sounds like your interest truely lies in the subscene we find at the more intimate UGs. If that's the case, as it is with many of us, and since IMO therein lies the true sfraves spirit, then perhaps you should say "Stone the crows" and stick with those parties (I'm leaning that way myself). Dig, - E. P. P. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 12:37:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA22834; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:37:32 -0800 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA22822; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:37:27 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (pool035.Max3.San-Francisco.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.100.35]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA16139; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:35:21 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 12:35:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199604042035.MAA16139@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: cnielsen@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Spiritual 99 From: Courtney Nielsen Subject: Re: Serotonin Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: At 12:14 AM 4/4/96 -0800, you wrote: >be careful out there! >peace >brendan > > > I agree. The reason psychedelics work is because they "disrupt" serotonin transmissions in the brain. The molecule that makes up a psychedelic is so similar to a serotonin molecule that your brain's receptors can't tell the difference (until after transmission, then, oh yeah, your brain can tell). The only difference between serotonin and psilocin (mushrooms) are a slightly different mixture of atoms, however the structure of the molecule is exactly the same. The difference between serotonin and LSD is a slightly different structure, but still not enough of a difference to be rejected by the receptor. FYI: other neurotransmitters: Acetylcholine Dopamine Norepinephrine Epinephrine - also known as adrenaline Glutamate Gamma-amino-butyric acid (GABA) gabba-gabba-hey! Substance P - the shittiest one, reports pain Leu-enkephalin - all you Deepak Chopra fans: this is the body's own opium. Met-enkephalin - also opiate-like YES, I AM THE SOURCE OF RANDOM MEDICAL KNOWLEDGE. Courtney From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 13:09:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA26545; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:09:38 -0800 Received: from elaine36.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA26533; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:09:34 -0800 Received: from localhost (senator@localhost) by elaine36.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16227; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:09:12 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine36.Stanford.EDU: senator owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:09:12 -0800 (PST) From: Cassandra Ann Thomas X-Sender: senator@elaine36.Stanford.EDU To: Larry Ching cc: Ronald Knegtel , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: UnDrugged In-Reply-To: <199604021406.GAA05871@netcom18.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Larry Ching wrote: > Recently, Ronald Knegtel asked: > > How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? > > > Catnaps in the chill room or some semi-clean area with minimum foot > traffic. Relaxing every once and awhile. > > And - GOOD MUSIC ! > > Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com > > This is one reason why I think it is so important to have chill rooms! Too often when people throw parties they forget the need for a space where people both on and off drugs can relax. I have seen many a bad situation diffused because a person was able to be taken to a chill/ambient room for time out. Cassandra From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 13:25:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA28002; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:25:33 -0800 Received: from elaine36.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA27990; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:25:30 -0800 Received: from localhost (senator@localhost) by elaine36.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA19542; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:25:26 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine36.Stanford.EDU: senator owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:25:26 -0800 (PST) From: Cassandra Ann Thomas X-Sender: senator@elaine36.Stanford.EDU To: Jessica Fogler cc: sfraves Subject: Re: well supported In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Jessica Fogler wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I have had such a tremendously loving batch of replys to my intro and > plea for drug-free freakazoid rave partners. I want to thank all of you > for letting me know that I'm not alone. > > I can be cynical sometimes about PLUR. I used to hang out in the grateful > dead scene when I was into psychedelics (don't laugh, raves had hardly > been invented back then!) and there was much talk of PLUR etc... I > personally found people to be rather cliquey and quite indifferent to > newbies or others who weren't part of their "family". I must say that > the incredibly positive and supportive responses to my intro message have > restored some of my faith in PLUR - concepts on which I base my every > waking hour and which found much of my motivation to study medicine. > > So thank you all for your vibrant welcome. > > I'll post an e-mail when I want to go out so one of you can be my > designated support person and introducer for the evening, then I should > be launched. > > > Love, Jess > Why should we laugh that you were in the Grateful Dead scene? In many ways, I think the Dead scene and the rave scene have things in common. I think in many ways both scenes were/are searching for many of the same things and you shouldn't be embarassed that you were in that scene. Though I must say I am glad you found rave . . .:) Cassandra From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 13:30:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA28437; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:30:45 -0800 Received: from saclink1.csus.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA28429; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:30:40 -0800 Received: by saclink1.csus.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA209763470; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:31:10 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:31:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy R Starkey Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam To: "Eric P. Peterson" Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: To everybody: The arguement is so futile! If you want to go, then go. If not, go somewhere else or stay home. San Francisco is blessed to be filled with *CHOICES*. How much money Martin made is none of my business and it is none of yours. The only thing that IS my business is whether or not to support his rave. See some of you there! love, Amy --------------- | _ ,/| | | '\`o O' | | =(_^_)= | Amy Starkey | |U| | sac41673@saclink1.csus.edu | | | | --------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 13:31:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA28522; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:31:41 -0800 Received: from elaine36.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA28504; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:31:33 -0800 Received: from localhost (senator@localhost) by elaine36.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02352; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:31:25 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine36.Stanford.EDU: senator owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:31:24 -0800 (PST) From: Cassandra Ann Thomas X-Sender: senator@elaine36.Stanford.EDU To: Kathryn Ankrum cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Fight the Right March-NON-RAVE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I might be interested. Are you going to meet about it? Cassandra On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Kathryn Ankrum wrote: > > **Disclaimer: What follows is Non-Rave** > > Hi All, > > Here's some info. on NOW's Fight the Right March, which is coming up > April 14. Anybody want to join me under a "Ravers Against the Right" banner? > > :) > Kathryn > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 16:16:49 -0500 > From: The National Organization for Women > To: now-march-list@now.org > Subject: now-march-list Update with Confirmed Speakers > > >From the National Organization for Women Action Center: > > WHO: > -- San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown > -- NOW President Patricia Ireland > -- Rev. Jesse Jackson, National Rainbow Coalition > -- Dolores Huerta, United Farm Workers of America > -- Eleanor Smeal, Feminist Majority > -- Kate Michelman, National Abortion and Reproductive Rights > Action League > -- Gloria Steinem, feminist leader and author > -- Bella Abzug, Women's Environmental and Development Organization > -- Anna Padia, Coalition of Labor Union Women > -- Mary Chung, National Asian Women's Health Organization > -- Katie Quan, Union of Needletrades, Industrial & Textile Workers > -- Paul Rockwell, Angry White Guys for Affirmative Action > -- Lisa Tiger, Native American AIDS educator > > -- and nearly 600 endorsing national, state and local organizations, > including the American Association of University Women, American > Jewish Congress, Asian Pacific American Labor Alliance, > Gray Panthers, Human Rights Campaign,Mexican American Legal > Defense & Education Fund, National Coalition Against Domestic > Violence, National Latinas Caucus, National Welfare Rights Union, > Planned Parenthood Federation of America, YWCA of the USA > (the full list can be seen on the Web at: > http://www.now.org/issues/right/orglist.html) > > WHAT: Join in the Fight the Right March > > WHERE: San Francisco > > WHEN: SUNDAY, APRIL 14, 11 a.m. to 5 p.m. > March assembly: 11 a.m.-1 p.m., Bay Street > (between Franklin & Laguna) > Step-off: 1 p.m. > Rally: 2 p.m., Crissy Field at the Presidio > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 13:35:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA28877; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:35:51 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA28869; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:35:48 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:35:47 -0800 (PST) From: Andy Thomas To: "Eric P. Peterson" cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Eric P. Peterson wrote: > Without repeating more of his post, Black Adder has valid points to > make, just like the rest of us. I, too, would be interested in seeing a > balance sheet (the accountant in me talking) or other breakdown of the > costs associated with a massive, and compare to the costs associated with a > small UG party. It's fruitless to swat this ball back & forth if no one > can provide sample data (witness my clueless post about MDMA recently). Martin provided this kind of info. a year or so back when this topic came up before (check the archives), which he didn't have to do but so anyways. It seems unreasable to expect someone to provide this kind of data for every party they do... Andy ps why does this seem to come up before *every* gathering? deja-vu... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 13:37:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA29034; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:37:08 -0800 Received: from xinet.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA29025; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:37:04 -0800 Received: from DialupEudora by xinet.COM via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) for id NAA22091; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:36:59 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:36:59 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: tony@xinet.COM (Tony Rotundo) Subject: Re: UnDrugged Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I often bring a thermos full of coffee and find it quite nice and stimulating. I've often thought about selling espresso shots at parties. Even just plain old cups of fresh joe would would be nice wouldn't it. (The drink that is, not the Rice. ;^) Wonder how others feel. Hmmmm... Tone At 1:09 PM 4/4/96, Cassandra Ann Thomas wrote: >On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Larry Ching wrote: > >> Recently, Ronald Knegtel asked: >> > How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? >> > >> Catnaps in the chill room or some semi-clean area with minimum foot >> traffic. Relaxing every once and awhile. >> >> And - GOOD MUSIC ! >> >> Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com >> >> >This is one reason why I think it is so important to have chill rooms! >Too often when people throw parties they forget the need for a space where >people both on and off drugs can relax. I have seen many a bad situation >diffused because a person was able to be taken to a chill/ambient room >for time out. > >Cassandra From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 13:43:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA29609; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:43:19 -0800 Received: from elaine36.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA29577; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:43:13 -0800 Received: from localhost (senator@localhost) by elaine36.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA27575; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:43:09 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine36.Stanford.EDU: senator owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:43:08 -0800 (PST) From: Cassandra Ann Thomas X-Sender: senator@elaine36.Stanford.EDU To: kcroy cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: re: help In-Reply-To: <199604032143.NAA02150@shellx.best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I second your sentiments. Cassandra On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, kcroy wrote: > I sent a more personal letter to the originator of this thread, > > but addiction, or whatever is posible. I have a friend who used to spend > well over 3 grand a year on e (back when we called it x, and it went for $10 > a hit) > > The problems can (and usually are) emotional at the base, and in some > cases friends can help, sometimes its deeper. With myself, when I found > myself getting too deep, I had friends who puled me aside and said they > were worried. I told them to fuck off. > but at some level it stuck, and I started > noticing that sometimes I was having fun, > someitmes I was taking it too far. > And my friends helped me through. helped me stay > safe and sane, and keep things under control. Not by yelling, or pushing, but > by letting me know when I was pushing things. Letting them know they cared > for me, and that they werew worried. This isn't a born again freak > post. This sint an anti sugar, or caffine, or H post. Its a 'sometimes > you can help your friends who are in too deep' post. > > God this sounds like im preacing to the perverted, > but please dont forget that things can go too > far. D is a wealty , mserable , fucking lawyer in NY. > A, (an se raver) OD'd last year. > Sometimes people need a little more help. > Remember, we take care of eachother. > kc|roy > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 13:48:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA00241; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:48:06 -0800 Received: from elaine36.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA00216; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:47:59 -0800 Received: from localhost (senator@localhost) by elaine36.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07589; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:47:49 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine36.Stanford.EDU: senator owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:47:49 -0800 (PST) From: Cassandra Ann Thomas X-Sender: senator@elaine36.Stanford.EDU To: KaySEE cc: Nancy , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: There was recently an artice in the Journal of Biochemistry in the last six months on MDMA as well. Cassandra On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, KaySEE wrote: > I just found a very good Ecstasy information web page as I was poking > around in order to get more information for myself. The URL is: > > http://tdg.uoguelph.ca/%7Epeak/issues/22/ish3/ecstasy.html > > It is kind of a research project investigating the published research > that has been done on MDMA. I will quote a bit of it below, but you > should really read it for yourself. The research seems sound and has a > bibliography. It talks of ongoing scientific research being done around > the world that has yet to be published. Being from a scientific > background, I prefer stuff like this to inform myself of risks rather than > things like "E is for Ecstasy" by Saunders (but that is MY bias!!). The > page is well researched and says both the known and unkown. Here is a > snip of it: > > "...There is little doubt that MDMA has the potential to cause > neroanatomical changes and permanent serotonin deficiencies in the > primate brain. It remains to be shown whether there are functional > consequences that correspond to the neroanatomical changes that > characterizes excessive ecstasy use. It also remains to be determined > whether humans exhibiting MDMA-exposure damage are capable of > compensating for damage via still undetermined pathways. Research on > this matter is ongoing at Johns Hopkins, the U.S. National Institute for > Drug Abuse, and research labs worldwide." > > I'll let anyone interested read the rest. I found it in my search for an > article about neural damage caused by MDMA that was supposedly published > in Science magazine. I still can't find the article, but I read about it > last August sometime in the newspaper. If I ever find it, I'll let > anyone know who is interested. > > My apologies for the "drug-talk". The scientist in me is always looking > for evidence!! he he > > chau, > kc > > > kirstenc@uclink.berkeley.edu > .*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.*.* > > "Talk is cheap..." > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 13:53:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA00818; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:53:05 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA00812; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:53:02 -0800 Received: from julie.teleport.com (root@julie.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09141; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:52:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from shakti@localhost) by julie.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA09111; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:50:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:49:34 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: Cassandra Ann Thomas cc: Jessica Fogler , sfraves Subject: Re: well supported In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: jessica, i've been into the dead for 17 years...but i must say the techno scene has made me smile more :) check out my web page www.teleport.com/~shakti love, bren :) On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Cassandra Ann Thomas wrote: > On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Jessica Fogler wrote: > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I have had such a tremendously loving batch of replys to my intro and > > plea for drug-free freakazoid rave partners. I want to thank all of you > > for letting me know that I'm not alone. > > > > I can be cynical sometimes about PLUR. I used to hang out in the grateful > > dead scene when I was into psychedelics (don't laugh, raves had hardly > > been invented back then!) and there was much talk of PLUR etc... I > > personally found people to be rather cliquey and quite indifferent to > > newbies or others who weren't part of their "family". I must say that > > the incredibly positive and supportive responses to my intro message have > > restored some of my faith in PLUR - concepts on which I base my every > > waking hour and which found much of my motivation to study medicine. > > > > So thank you all for your vibrant welcome. > > > > I'll post an e-mail when I want to go out so one of you can be my > > designated support person and introducer for the evening, then I should > > be launched. > > > > > > Love, Jess > > > Why should we laugh that you were in the Grateful Dead scene? In many > ways, I think the Dead scene and the rave scene have things in common. > I think in many ways both scenes were/are searching for many of the same > things and you shouldn't be embarassed that you were in that scene. > Though I must say I am glad you found rave . . .:) > > Cassandra > http://www.teleport.com/~shakti From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 14:00:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA01705; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:00:18 -0800 Received: from elaine36.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA01700; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:00:15 -0800 Received: from localhost (senator@localhost) by elaine36.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01561; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:59:19 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine36.Stanford.EDU: senator owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 13:59:19 -0800 (PST) From: Cassandra Ann Thomas X-Sender: senator@elaine36.Stanford.EDU To: TALILLA SCHUSTER cc: Nancy , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I understand why you take the Prozac to replenish your serotonin levels but please realize that everybody's levels are different and that a person on anti-depressents is usually monitored for months before the right dosage is found. Please be careful. Cassandra On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, TALILLA SCHUSTER wrote: > Just a little note on seratonin levels after taking e: not to condone > taking medicine that is not prescribed to you, but my friend in NYC > sends some of her Prozac for me to take after taking e. Since Prozac does > the opposite of e (it increases seratonin levels), taking *one* afterwards > seems to make me feel better. This has absolutely NO scientific basis, > that I know of, but it helps ME recover. Again, I'm not condoning or > advertising this, but it sort of makes sense. > > Also, while I'm here, I may as well introduce myself: I used to go to > parties all the time, but a combination of being with the wrong people, > who were on the wrong drugs, plus getting tired of worrying about not > being 21 (I'm 19) and a medical thingy made the scene sort of lose its > luster...Well, I still haven't gone to a party in months, but I'm > regretting my hasty abandonment and I'm re-evaluating the place that > raves have in my life. I miss it, ya know? So I've joined this list to > create a different foundation for myself. By communicating (or mostly > watching, as of late) with SFRaves, I'm starting to re-establish why I > started raving in the first place, instead of keeping my not-so-great > memories. When I find faith again, and trustworthy people, I foresee many > wonderful experiences. Tell me what you think. > > AND, lastly, to anybody thinking of moving here, as I did recently from > Massachusetts (any New Englanders out there?) there is a service called > Roommate Referral which is very helpful to find nicely located places in > your price range. It means moving in w/ ppl you don't know, but that can > be kind of an adventure. Also, I had NO problem finding work, but my work > is completely un-computer related, so that might be different. As far as > the feel of SF, it changes all the time, in each neighborhood, yet it is > usually good and beautiful (talk about some over-used ajectives, eh?). To > me, it seems that California can be everything sometimes, and other times > nothing. Basically, it is a place, that can offer you a lot, but you have > to be willing to grab it. I guess anywhere is like that. If you've been > thinking of moving here, do it, because that way your questions will be > answered. > Sorry to have rambled...Talilla > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 14:26:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA04947; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:26:18 -0800 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA04934; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:26:14 -0800 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA13608; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:26:10 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:26:10 -0800 (PST) To: Geoff White cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: <199604041810.KAA05458@precipice.v-site.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Geoff White wrote: > Dude, what is up with you? Do you have a personal vendetta against Martin? I have no vendetta against Martin or anyone else I can think of off the top of my head. I feel as I have for some time, that the parties are not worth the price of admission. I am free to express this opinion and I will. I did not start this thread, but am merely agreeing with the poster who also felt that $25 was too much. > Where were you when these fools threw Lucy Charms? It may have not been > $25 but people seem to think that they didn't get their money's worth. How > many people do you know WHO HAVE BEEN to one of Martin's parties do you > see complaining about the price? If it cost too much then don't go. I saw the flyer for Lucky Charms and laughed. Like Wayne, I was extremely turned off by their advertising, and from the sounds of it they ripped people off *BIG*. What more can I add to what has already been said about Lucky Charms and the motives behind it? I think quite a few people summed it up nicely. Yes I do think $25 is too much, and I am as free to say so, just as you are free to say it is an incredible value. Can we agree to disagree? > parties and his clothing business, I hope he makes more than enough money to > fullfill his dreams and to help build the infrastructure that we as a community > will need when the parties are over some day. Geoff you paint this wonderful picture. Please, enlighten us all, what infrastructure is being built? Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 14:27:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA05003; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:27:04 -0800 Received: from elaine36.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA04995; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:26:42 -0800 Received: from localhost (senator@localhost) by elaine36.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09246; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:16:25 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine36.Stanford.EDU: senator owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:16:25 -0800 (PST) From: Cassandra Ann Thomas X-Sender: senator@elaine36.Stanford.EDU To: "Michael T. Logan" cc: Ann Elizabeth Loraine , Fred Heutte , sfraves Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact In-Reply-To: <1996Apr04.062700.1042.25548@mx.macrovision.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I also have "candy flipped" and agree that it was awesome but I could see how that intense experience could be overpowering if you sre not prepared. Candyflipping (at least for me) is very different from x-ing and can be disconcerting to many people who otherwise enjoy e-ing. Cassandra On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Michael T. Logan wrote: > > > A friend of mine went to a party recently and was sold something called > > "White lightening," or something like that. It was E laced with LSD, and > > it had a very unpleasant effect. My friend made the mistake of NOT > > asking what was in it and she suffered the results. > > E & A. Used to be called candy flipping. Not sure if anyone does it > anymore, but the one time I did, it was one of the most awesome rides > of my life :-) > > --Michael (another lurker) > > > ********************************************** > Michael T. Logan mlogan@macrovision.com > I.S. Manager 72223.2155@compuserve.com > Macrovision Corp. > 1341 Orleans Drive +1.408.743.8448(v) > Sunnyvale, CA 94089 +1.408.743.8548(f) > ********************************************** > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 14:29:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA05247; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:29:14 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA05235; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:29:10 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA29143 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:29:07 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA16786; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:29:09 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA11325; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:03:39 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:05:22 -0800 To: tony@xinet.COM (Tony Rotundo) From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: UnDrugged Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >I often bring a thermos full of coffee and find it quite nice and stimulating. > >I've often thought about selling espresso shots at parties. Even just >plain old cups of fresh joe would would be nice wouldn't it. (The drink >that is, not the Rice. ;^) > >Wonder how others feel. Hmmmm... > >Tone > Yes!!! Coffee would be so nice to have at a party! It lends itself well to socializing, smells and tastes pleasing (to me, anyway), and it's not just for breakfast anymore :) The caffeine does nothing for me, because I'm so naturally sedate (definitely a type B personality, but not a sloth), but I love drinking the stuff, especially flavored! Maybe we should set up shop... Make mine a double-cap! - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 14:44:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA06616; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:44:21 -0800 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA06600; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:44:16 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (pool023.Max2.San-Francisco.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.99.23]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA29281 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:42:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 14:42:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199604042242.OAA29281@norway.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: cnielsen@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Courtney Nielsen Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: IDEA!!!! If you don't like someone involved with a party, then don't go to the party!! How much money one makes is his/her own business. However, if you charge a substantial amount, and a shitload of people come, then yes, you are in the bucks!! But so what? If you dont agree w/ that, then maybe a big mega-rave is not for you. If you want to go and freak out and dont give a shit about who makes how much money and you just wanna rock the house, then do so! You pay more money for other things that make higher profit all the time. Food, utilities, car, the computer you are staring at, etc. At least the gathering will have a huge sound system. PG&E don't got dat! If you are jealous about how much $ one would pull in at a mega-rave, then hell, throw your own! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 15:04:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA08495; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:04:06 -0800 Received: from ucscb.UCSC.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA08489; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:04:03 -0800 Received: by ucscb.UCSC.EDU (5.65/1.34) id AA24802; Thu, 4 Apr 96 15:01:58 -0800 From: swoosh@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (John Elias Darrow) Message-Id: <9604042301.AA24802@ucscb.UCSC.EDU> Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:01:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Andy Thomas" at Apr 4, 96 01:35:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1683 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > > > On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Eric P. Peterson wrote: > > Martin provided this kind of info. a year or so back when this topic came > up before (check the archives), which he didn't have to do but so anyways. > It seems unreasable to expect someone to provide this kind of data for > every party they do... > > ps why does this seem to come up before *every* gathering? deja-vu... > and why does it only come up around Gatherings and Vision, and not the ton of other $20 parties that show up, rip everyone off, and dissapear. Because they have a reputation, because they are one of the few massives that actually hold their own and stick around to be remembered. Massives have always cost $20... that never changes. and these $20 massives sometimes make money, and sometimes lose money. That's just one of the facts about a massive... if you don't like it, don't go to them. But stop complaining about it because some of us like what goes on at these big parties, especially Martin's parties, and don't deserve the bad wrap. I always manage to find an extrodinary vibe and truly believe that overall nature of these parties is positive. I'm sorry if you don't see that too. and to Martin's defense... Basics usually always cost $15... the "lousy" one in Vallejo (compare it to a lot of other $15 parties and it really wasn't that bad) as well as the one in Antioch (where I had a wonderful night). If you must rant about the evils of money, please choose a more deserving focal point. Meanwhile, I'll be at the gathering enjoying the hell out of the night and that mysterious vibe that's just so hard to come by these days. take care, -john. http://www.he.net/~swoosh From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 15:04:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA08557; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:04:26 -0800 Received: from elaine16.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA08541; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:04:21 -0800 Received: from localhost (senator@localhost) by elaine16.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25713; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:04:20 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: elaine16.Stanford.EDU: senator owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:04:20 -0800 (PST) From: Cassandra Ann Thomas X-Sender: senator@elaine16.Stanford.EDU To: Matt Kodama cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Fight the Right March-NON-RAVE In-Reply-To: <199604042226.OAA12805@elaine26.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: I am interested in marching. Maybe we can help organize a south bay group to join up with people in San Francisco? Cassandra On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Matt Kodama wrote: > if y'all decide to march, could you post a note to sfraves? i might be > interested too ... i'm not generally an activist sort of person, but i've > been thinking i might have to make an exception for this. > matt. > -- > |=======================================================================| > | | > | i have the world's largest collection of seashells. i keep it on all | > | the beaches of the world ... perhaps you've seen it. | > | | > | you know how it is when you're reading a book and falling asleep, | > | you're reading, reading ... and all of a sudden you notice your eyes | > | are closed? i'm like that all the time. | > | | > | i put tape on the mirrors in my house so i don't accidentally walk | > | through into another dimension. | > | | > | - steven wright | > | | > |=======================================================================| > -starchld@leland.stanford.edu--the mothership can be reached at 493-4099- > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 15:12:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA09298; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:12:32 -0800 Received: from netcom11.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA09287; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:12:28 -0800 Received: by netcom11.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id PAA10120; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:12:22 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:12:22 -0800 From: ephedra@netcom.com (ephedrina) Message-Id: <199604042312.PAA10120@netcom11.netcom.com> To: epaul@Synopsys.COM, tony@xinet.COM Subject: Re: UnDrugged Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Just remember to drink lots and lots of extra water! Coffee is a diuretic and will dry you out immensely, which is very dangerous if you're dancing around and losing a lot of moisture through sweat.. It's hard to remember that sometimes when you're drinking something anyway; sometimes you don't realize that you're losing water because you're not thirsty.. just a tip from mom kia > Yes!!! Coffee would be so nice to have at a party! It lends itself well to > socializing, smells and tastes pleasing (to me, anyway), and it's not just > for breakfast anymore :) The caffeine does nothing for me, because I'm so > naturally sedate (definitely a type B personality, but not a sloth), but I > love drinking the stuff, especially flavored! Maybe we should set up > shop... > > Make mine a double-cap! > > - E > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 15:15:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA09592; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:15:30 -0800 Received: from netcom19.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA09578; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:15:24 -0800 Received: from kencyr by netcom19.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id PAA18687; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:15:08 -0800 Message-ID: <316457F3.15FB7483@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 15:14:59 -0800 From: Jeremy Nauck X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Courtney Nielsen CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam References: <199604042242.OAA29281@norway.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Courtney Nielsen wrote: > > IDEA!!!! > If you don't like someone involved with a party, then don't go to the party!! > > How much money one makes is his/her own business. > However, if you charge a substantial amount, and a shitload of people come, > then yes, you are in the bucks!! But so what? > > If you dont agree w/ that, then maybe a big mega-rave is not for you. > If you want to go and freak out and dont give a shit about who makes how > much money and you just wanna rock the house, then do so! > > You pay more money for other things that make higher profit all the time. > Food, utilities, car, the computer you are staring at, etc. > At least the gathering will have a huge sound system. PG&E don't got dat! > > If you are jealous about how much $ one would pull in at a mega-rave, then > hell, throw your own! I think what a lot of people get hung up on is the fact that if I, or most people here, were to throw an event, we would charge just enough to make back the money we had spent. To me this seems like the ideal case. For the one event I got to help produce, we didn't even make it that far. I think we were in the hole a couple hundred bucks, but who cares? I think what bothers people is that in an environment like ours, people have frowned on the idea of profitting off one another, then when someone comes along charging $25 bucks ahead, and obviously collects thousands of dollars, it should either be an incredible scene, or else for a very good cause. So what it boils down to is does it bother you that the "commercialization" process is gaining a hold on the rave scene, and do you want to do anything about it? Just my random rambling, your milege may vary! :^) Love to all!!! (WHAT AN INCREDIBLE DAY!!!!) -Jeremy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 15:20:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA09890; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:20:09 -0800 Received: from gatekeeper.nsc.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA09883; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:20:05 -0800 From: TBOBSC@tevm2.nsc.com Received: from nsc.nsc.com by gatekeeper.nsc.com (5.65/fma-120691) with SMTP; id AA25811 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 4 Apr 96 15:20:03 -0800 Received: from tevm2.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA23926 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 4 Apr 96 15:20:01 -0800 Message-Id: <9604042320.AA23926@nsc.nsc.com> Received: from TEVM2 by tevm2.nsc.com (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9102; Thu, 04 Apr 96 15:20:59 PST Date: Thu, 04 Apr 96 15:20:58 PST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: UnDrugged Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: *** Reply to note of 04/04/96 13:36 FROM: Robert Brown SUBJECT: Re: UnDrugged Bringing some coffee to a rave is a good idea actually...wonder why I hadn't done that before...(maybe lack of a thermos I suspect) Before going out, especially if driving to the far-flung reaches of the Bay (like Oaktown), I often brew a pot to drink. Espresso at a rave is a nice idea, too. My couple of pennies... Oh, and just to chime in on the original topic of the subject line... All but twice I've gone to a rave I have gone sans any sort of injested or inhaled enhancement, and I still manage to have fun. :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 15:22:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA10055; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:22:02 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA10040; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:21:58 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA01552 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:21:58 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA20879 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:22:00 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA28962 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:21:56 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:23:39 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >> >> >> On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Eric P. Peterson wrote: >> >> Martin provided this kind of info. a year or so back when this topic came >> up before (check the archives), which he didn't have to do but so anyways. >> It seems unreasable to expect someone to provide this kind of data for >> every party they do... >> >> ps why does this seem to come up before *every* gathering? deja-vu... >> No, I did not write that. I don't know why it says I did. See ya! - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 15:43:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA12157; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:43:59 -0800 Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA12149; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:43:56 -0800 Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id PAA06431; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:43:04 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:43:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199604042343.PAA06431@precipice.v-site.net> X-Sender: geoffw2@v-site.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: blkadder@value.net From: geoffw@cybertribe.com (Geoff White) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > >> parties and his clothing business, I hope he makes more than enough money to >> fullfill his dreams and to help build the infrastructure that we as a community >> will need when the parties are over some day. > >Geoff you paint this wonderful picture. Please, enlighten us all, what >infrastructure is being built? > > Black Adder > There are many "ravers" who are running businesses of there own, some are self employeed, some are fortunate enough to be able to employ others. Many have realized thru the medium of throwing/going to parties that, like the Greatful Dead Scene, as we get older we can choose to work for "The Man" or we can try to build some companies, organizations and institutions that can employ, empower and nurture the principles, families and lifestyle that we have come to believe in. some of these companies are: Ameba Clothes www.ameba.com Clothing Virtual Sites www.v-site.net Web ISP GW Communications Internet Engineering Super User Consulting Internet Engineering Organic Online www.organic.com Cyberspace Design Communion www.communion.com Clothes & Events Cyborganic www.cyborganic.com CyberCulture Matt's Organics Organic Food Man Made Media www.manmade.com Multimedia Production Hunab-Ku www.hunab-ku.com Media Distribution FTT/Organic Entertainment(Parties) JK Sound Sound Reinforcement TCC www.iz.net/tcc Community ISP Ultima www.ultima.org ISP Community Conn. www.c2.org ISP/ Secure Software Qaswa Design www.qaswa.com Web Design 20 Hz Records www.twenty-hz.com Record label Solid Grooves Record Sales Primal Records www.primalrec.com Record Sales Tweekin Records www.tweekin.com Record Sales Frequency-8 www.frequency-8.com Record Sales XLR8R www.xlr8r.com Journalism Wired/HotWired www.wired.com Journalism Dimension-7 Event Production Hyperdelic Video Event Production Hollywood Dog Laser light shows Peachie's Puffs Vending Raindance Event Production Not to mention several organizations and individuals who need to go unnamed for various reasons, there have been ravers in the White House, ravers in state government, ravers in the phone company, ravers who own and manage property (that many ravers in SF live in), doctors lawyers, nurses marketing firms and yes even ravers on Police forces (can you believe that :) I own one of the companies above, it is my personal goal to try to eventually employ as many people who have been enlightened by party going as possible. To sustain my T1 and ISDN lines I have to pay PacBell $1000/month and TLG $600/month. Not a small sum, I have to make a profit in order to keep the company going, if i were to make 4 times the amount that I current make on v-site (it brings in about $2000 a month) then I could stop working my other TWO jobs and devote more time to this business (or maybe hire someone and create a situation where another person doesn't have to work at Kinko's. One of the problem's that all of the above businesses face (except for maybe a couple :) is undercapitalization, that is, not enough money to pay the rent and buy additional hardware/software, hire more people, etc. So ask yourself this... 5 years from now where would you rather work, for a company based on the precepts of (dare I say it :) Peace Love Unity and Respect or for some (multi)national like Sony. If the answer is the former then how will these companies grow if they don't make substantial profit? If they need capital from outside then we have banks and VC firms investing in our companies solely as potential profit making items, these companies care little about the lifestyle, they care primarily about the bottom line. If some of the "family" strike it rich then maybe they are in a position to help out the other elements, this is my goal and I know it's Martin's goal to some extent as well. geoffw From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 15:59:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA13939; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:59:04 -0800 Received: from palm.ucs.uwplatt.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA13933; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:59:01 -0800 From: MEAD@uwplatt.edu Received: from uwplatt.edu by uwplatt.edu (PMDF V4.3-13 #4908) id <01I35HYC7K288Y6ZAZ@uwplatt.edu>; Thu, 04 Apr 1996 18:01:44 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 18:01:44 -0600 (CST) Subject: :~( To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-id: <01I35HYC8D028Y6ZAZ@uwplatt.edu> X-VMS-To: IN%"sfraves@hyperreal.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: my friends and family, it's so sad to hear everyone bickering about this money thing. i unsubbed from my other rave list cuz that's the only thing they talk about....bitch,bitch,bitch. but if you need to get it out of your system, this is a good place to do so. i plan on posting a funny list next week of "a raver's little instruction book" modeled after "life's little instruction book" by that one guy. it was posted on mw-raves a few months ago and is pretty funny. anyway, i had a story: i got a kick out of everyone's shocked posts about Lucky Charms and how bad it was. then someone submitted a list of the top reasons you know a party is going to be bad. one of the reasons was similar to.....when the flyer is bigger than a postcard you know it will be bad. i laughed because most of the flyers that came out of Chicago are poster size. literally! and minneapolis flyers are usually 4x9 or bigger. just a cultural difference? maybe not. chicago parties have a history of being busted and having the exact same problems Lucky charms had. :) then there was the time the ppl doing map point left for the party in Minneapolis. at a stop sign, they were carjacked and many thousands of dollars (from the money box) was stolen. the police were of the opinion that it was an inside job. none of the dj's, lighting guys, sound guys, or any person of importance was paid that night. check that shit when you wonder where you're money is going! whew! just trying to stir the koolaid :) clinton midwest flava! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 16:03:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA14271; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:03:07 -0800 Received: from itsa.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA14264; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:03:04 -0800 Received: (from jfogler@localhost) by itsa.ucsf.EDU (8.6.8/GSC4.24) id QAA101420; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:03:04 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:03:03 -0800 (PST) From: Jessica Fogler To: amyp@yosemite.examen.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: In need of Help... In-Reply-To: <9604031928.134A78@pongo.examen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: amyp, it's really great that you reached out for help because it can be really scary when someone you love seems to be acting so out of control. As someone who used to act a lot like your friend, I can also sympathize with him. It seems that certain people (like myself and possibly your friend) just can't get enough of that good feeling they get from drugs, to the point that they are willing to sacrifice their health, their relationships with others and their hopes and dreams just to get high again. It sound like your friend might be addicted to his habit in which case he needs some help. The only problem is that he won't be able to accept help unless he wants it. The best thing you can do for him is to give him -information- about drug treatment options (Narcotics Anonymous specializes in drug addiction of all kinds, is composed only of recovering drug addicts, no professionals or teacher types and helped me get off the stuff), love him, remind him that there is another way for him to live his life well and happily and wait until he's ready. Also, E can be responsible for brain and nerve damage and at the doses and frequencies he is taking it -is- something you should be concerned about. It's weird - it just seems that some of us can use and enjoy drugs and live a balanced life, and others want to get high to the exclusion of all other activities. I've never been able to figure out why people turn out the way they do. Good luck with your friend, and e-mail me if you want more info about treatment for drug addiction. Jess On Wed, 3 Apr 1996 amyp@yosemite.examen.com wrote: > Hey guys. > > I need some advice. I have a male friend, an e dealer and > ex-boyfriend, who needs help. Now I don't know what constant > use of e can do to your system, but he does this at least > twice a week. And not only does he do this, but he does a lot > at a time. He has a high tollerance for it, but I don't think > taking 10 hits is cool. Last night he called my friends, > Michelle and Jules, at 5am to ask them for their 2 hits of e, > that he had GIVEN them this last weekend. He was so desperate > for more.....I don't understand. > > I am really worried about him. He's a good friend and I don't > want anything to happen to him. > > In need of help or advice, > amyp > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 16:06:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA14702; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:06:54 -0800 Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA14693; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:06:49 -0800 Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id QAA06484; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:05:33 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:05:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199604050005.QAA06484@precipice.v-site.net> X-Sender: geoffw2@v-site.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Jeremy Nauck From: geoffw@cybertribe.com (Geoff White) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > > I think what a lot of people get hung up on is the fact that if I, or >most people here, were to throw an event, we would charge just enough to make >back the money we had spent. To me this seems like the ideal case. For the one >event I got to help produce, we didn't even make it that far. I think we were >in the hole a couple hundred bucks, but who cares? I think what bothers people >is that in an environment like ours, people have frowned on the idea of >profitting off one another, then when someone comes along charging $25 bucks >ahead, and obviously collects thousands of dollars, it should either be an >incredible scene, or else for a very good cause. So what it boils down to is >does it bother you that the "commercialization" process is gaining a hold on >the rave scene, and do you want to do anything about it? > Just my random rambling, your milege may vary! :^) >Love to all!!! (WHAT AN INCREDIBLE DAY!!!!) >-Jeremy >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Martin throws parties for a living. He doesn't have a trust fund. He doesn't have an 80K job at Oracle, he doesn't have rich parents. he has to pay his own health insurance, sel employment tax. Not to mention all the fee for his events (can you imagine what it must cost to insure an event like the gathering?). How do you propose that he be allowed to continue if he can't turn a profit. I can clearly see that most of these people have never run their own businesses before. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 16:07:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA14772; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:07:29 -0800 Received: from bbs.urbanite.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA14765; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:07:23 -0800 From: The.Finn@bbs.urbanite.com Message-Id: <199604050007.QAA14765@taz.hyperreal.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: 4 Apr 1996 16:13:00 PST Subject: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: >2) Only deaths have been attributed to extreme DEHYDRATION > about 6 deaths in England in the last 10 years, due to extreme heat >and overcrowding, hours of dancing with no breaks, and lack of water. >People, take frequent rests and a lot of water (that is why bottles are >everywhere!!). It should aslo be noted that recent deaths related to ecstacy had been attributed to OVER comsumption of water, ie blood sodium level being depleted. There is some specialist advice group based in Manchester in England who are probably on the net (somwhere). The Finn From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 16:21:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA16199; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:21:05 -0800 Received: from itsa.ucsf.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA16194; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:21:02 -0800 Received: (from jfogler@localhost) by itsa.ucsf.EDU (8.6.8/GSC4.24) id QAA32921; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:21:03 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:21:03 -0800 (PST) From: Jessica Fogler To: Nancy cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Nancy wrote: > 2) addiction is virtually impossible > One of the distinguishing aspects of ecstasy is the fact that its > effects diminish with increased use. Several days-to-one-week seems to be > the necessary spacing between doses in order to achieve the same effect > (and many people recommend one month or more). People can take 3 pills > over 12 hours, for instance, but 3 pills two days later will not achieve > very much. > One last thought about addiction: Just because a substance hasn't been proven to have physically addictive effects doesn't mean that you can't be addicted to it Addiction is a complex psychological, spiritual, possibly genetic condition. The physical addictiveness of a certain substance has very little to do with whether or not a person will develop a dependance on it, or rather an obessesion about it. I personally am addicted to sugar, techno music and lots of other things. If I don't get my music or sugar fix every so often I find it consuming my thoughts and I find it hard to concentrate on other things until I have gotten some relief. I have been know to leave a movie in the middle to run down the street to get some chocolate. But see, I am an addict - an ex-drug addict but still an addict in personality. sugar and music don't fuck up my life the way drugs did, so i've made my choice. Jess From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 16:28:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA16981; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:28:21 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA16968; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:28:18 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:28:18 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Behlendorf To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: The Rave Scene -- Instant Replay of the '60's (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: A ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 12:14:21 -0600 From: Bruce E. To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: The Rave Scene -- Instant Replay of the '60's I'm Bruce Eisner, author of Ecstasy: The MDMA Story. I was interviewed in the current issue of XLR8R. I have a few comments about the rave scene that I want to append to the interview and ask for comments. 1. It appears that the Rave scene is beginning to resemble the Rock scene of the 60's. Big promoters with money interests are becoming the rule in rave promotions, with only a few "special" parties for insiders lacking the veneer of commercialism. This was true of the 60's. Rock started out as "underground" and became "establishment." 2. The Levi Web site is an example of how raves can be exploited for large corporate interests. Again, this parallels the 'sixties. I feel sad that SFRaves own Brian B. is involved in this obvious exploitation. 3.The herbal ecstasy scam is another example of commercialization. Herbal e is bunk, worse than bunk, it feels bad for many people and is unsafe. Yet it is hawked by rave magazines, psychedelic magazines, rave oriented shops, even health food stores. I have also had personal negative experiences with promoters I won't go into publicly. Suffice to say, as an elder of your tribe, with my roots in the 'Sixties, I say -- young man or young woman --it's time for something new. The rave scene needs a transfusion or perhaps it's time to look around for a new form to express your feelings of need for community and for the experience of transformation. Pleae direct comments to my personal e-mail as well as on the list as I recently had to go off the list because of a jammed up disk drive. Bruce Eisner Bruce Ehrlich Mind Media 849 Almar Ave. Suite C-125 Santa Cruz, CA 95060 Tel: (408) 426-0762 Fax: (408) 426-8519 E-Mail: Bruce@Mindmedia.com World Wide Web: http://www.mindmedia.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 16:30:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA17117; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:30:20 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA17110; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:30:18 -0800 Received: from julie.teleport.com (shakti@julie.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA05466; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from shakti@localhost) by julie.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA23634; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:30:20 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:30:20 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: Tony Rotundo cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: UnDrugged In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: i like the idea...i think water should be close by, tho, and free or inexpensive. bren :) On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Tony Rotundo wrote: > I often bring a thermos full of coffee and find it quite nice and stimulating. > > I've often thought about selling espresso shots at parties. Even just > plain old cups of fresh joe would would be nice wouldn't it. (The drink > that is, not the Rice. ;^) > > Wonder how others feel. Hmmmm... > > Tone > > > At 1:09 PM 4/4/96, Cassandra Ann Thomas wrote: > >On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Larry Ching wrote: > > > >> Recently, Ronald Knegtel asked: > >> > How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? > >> > > >> Catnaps in the chill room or some semi-clean area with minimum foot > >> traffic. Relaxing every once and awhile. > >> > >> And - GOOD MUSIC ! > >> > >> Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com > >> > >> > >This is one reason why I think it is so important to have chill rooms! > >Too often when people throw parties they forget the need for a space where > >people both on and off drugs can relax. I have seen many a bad situation > >diffused because a person was able to be taken to a chill/ambient room > >for time out. > > > >Cassandra > > http://www.teleport.com/~shakti From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 16:35:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA17563; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:35:05 -0800 Received: from xinet.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA17558; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:35:01 -0800 Received: from DialupEudora by xinet.COM via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) id QAA26281; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:34:55 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:34:55 -0800 To: Brenda Brewer From: tony@xinet.COM (Tony Rotundo) Subject: Re: UnDrugged Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: Coming from you, Ms. Brewer, that means a lot! ^^^^^^ HA! Ah, nothing like a little 4:30 humor... ;^) At 4:30 PM 4/4/96, Brenda Brewer wrote: >i like the idea...i think water should be close by, tho, and free or >inexpensive. >bren :) > > >On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Tony Rotundo wrote: > >> I often bring a thermos full of coffee and find it quite nice and >>stimulating. >> >> I've often thought about selling espresso shots at parties. Even just >> plain old cups of fresh joe would would be nice wouldn't it. (The drink >> that is, not the Rice. ;^) >> >> Wonder how others feel. Hmmmm... >> >> Tone >> >> >> At 1:09 PM 4/4/96, Cassandra Ann Thomas wrote: >> >On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Larry Ching wrote: >> > >> >> Recently, Ronald Knegtel asked: >> >> > How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? >> >> > >> >> Catnaps in the chill room or some semi-clean area with minimum foot >> >> traffic. Relaxing every once and awhile. >> >> >> >> And - GOOD MUSIC ! >> >> >> >> Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com >> >> >> >> >> >This is one reason why I think it is so important to have chill rooms! >> >Too often when people throw parties they forget the need for a space where >> >people both on and off drugs can relax. I have seen many a bad situation >> >diffused because a person was able to be taken to a chill/ambient room >> >for time out. >> > >> >Cassandra >> >> > > http://www.teleport.com/~shakti From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 16:48:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA19066; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:48:25 -0800 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA19041; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:48:21 -0800 Received: from julie.teleport.com (shakti@julie.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA13808; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:48:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from shakti@localhost) by julie.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA26475; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:48:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:48:24 -0800 (PST) From: Brenda Brewer To: Tony Rotundo cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: UnDrugged In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Tony Rotundo wrote: > Coming from you, Ms. Brewer, that means a lot! > ^^^^^^ > > HA! > > Ah, nothing like a little 4:30 humor... > 4:30 is RIGHT! i'm outta here for some sushi! can't wait to get to SF! love you all!!!!!! bren :) > ;^) > > At 4:30 PM 4/4/96, Brenda Brewer wrote: > >i like the idea...i think water should be close by, tho, and free or > >inexpensive. > >bren :) > > > > > >On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Tony Rotundo wrote: > > > >> I often bring a thermos full of coffee and find it quite nice and > >>stimulating. > >> > >> I've often thought about selling espresso shots at parties. Even just > >> plain old cups of fresh joe would would be nice wouldn't it. (The drink > >> that is, not the Rice. ;^) > >> > >> Wonder how others feel. Hmmmm... > >> > >> Tone > >> > >> > >> At 1:09 PM 4/4/96, Cassandra Ann Thomas wrote: > >> >On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Larry Ching wrote: > >> > > >> >> Recently, Ronald Knegtel asked: > >> >> > How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? > >> >> > > >> >> Catnaps in the chill room or some semi-clean area with minimum foot > >> >> traffic. Relaxing every once and awhile. > >> >> > >> >> And - GOOD MUSIC ! > >> >> > >> >> Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com > >> >> > >> >> > >> >This is one reason why I think it is so important to have chill rooms! > >> >Too often when people throw parties they forget the need for a space where > >> >people both on and off drugs can relax. I have seen many a bad situation > >> >diffused because a person was able to be taken to a chill/ambient room > >> >for time out. > >> > > >> >Cassandra > >> > >> > > > > http://www.teleport.com/~shakti > > http://www.teleport.com/~shakti From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 16:58:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA20252; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:58:36 -0800 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA20215; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:58:28 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA03488; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:58:21 -0800 Received: (inanna@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA17828; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:54:27 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:54:27 -0800 (PST) From: Melissa Wong To: Jeremy Nauck cc: Courtney Nielsen , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: <316457F3.15FB7483@netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: > So what it boils down to is > does it bother you that the "commercialization" process is gaining a hold on > the rave scene, and do you want to do anything about it? I personally go to the parties these days for "community", dancing, the ritual of celebration and the lack of "commercialization" in most of the scene. I have to spend too much of my day paying for computers, overpriced food, transpo and the like........ the "rave scene" is not a place I care to support that culture or that lifestyle. I have met Martin on occasion and he does seem to be a decent enough of a fellow but....I'm NOT into paying $20-25 for a party. So, I don't usually attend those. I save spending that kind of money for New Year's and mind-blowers like Burning Man. It's good that people are *expressing* their concern over prices and such. That's how views get shared and how other people are able to make more informed and well thought out decisions. I don't think it's "complaining". It's just a different point of view. All perspectives are needed to make this community. It was probably people who didn't want "commercialization" to take over the scene who started all the great small parties we have now. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 17:31:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA22835; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:31:16 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA22824; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:31:11 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:31:07 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Behlendorf To: sfraves@hyperreal.com cc: bruce@mindmedia.com Subject: Re: The Rave Scene -- Instant Replay of the '60's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Bruce E. wrote: > I'm Bruce Eisner, author of Ecstasy: The MDMA Story. I was interviewed in > the current issue of XLR8R. > > I have a few comments about the rave scene that I want to append to the > interview and ask for comments. > > 1. It appears that the Rave scene is beginning to resemble the Rock scene of > the 60's. Big promoters with money interests are becoming the rule in rave > promotions, with only a few "special" parties for insiders lacking the > veneer of commercialism. This was true of the 60's. Rock started out as > "underground" and became "establishment." Same as it ever was... people were decrying this as a problem back in 1989. The truth is always less stark than a sweeping statement can ever capture - and in my opinion and many other people's opinions, the scene in SF today is farther from this than it ever was. There are big parties, there are *tons* of smaller parties, and there are very few promoters doing this for a living. Which is as it should be - throwing parties for a living means that your focus is on something other than having fun, incidentially with "n" other people. The traffic on this list should make that obvious... > 2. The Levi Web site is an example of how raves can be exploited for large > corporate interests. Again, this parallels the 'sixties. I feel sad that > SFRaves own Brian B. is involved in this obvious exploitation. I feel sad that someone feels like they need to cut down folks for running a company which employs quite a few people from this scene, and a company without whom there would be no bandwidth provided for a machine to distribute the SFRaves mailing list for you to attack me on... the fact that I had to forward your message by hand to the list only adds to the sweet irony. Yes, you know, we do sit around all day and dream up ways to milk the rave teat to sell more jeans... uh..... Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 17:50:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA24199; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:50:28 -0800 Received: from dub-img-5.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA24187; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:50:24 -0800 Received: by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA20592; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:49:59 -0500 Date: 04 Apr 96 20:33:26 EST From: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" Subject: Re: UnDrugged Message-ID: <960405013326_71165.755_GHL73-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Tone said....I often bring a thermos full of coffee and find it quite nice and stimulating. I've often thought about selling espresso shots at parties. Even just plain old cups of fresh joe would would be nice wouldn't it. (The drink that is, not the Rice. ;^) Wonder how others feel. Hmmmm... Tone ______________________ YES! Last Sunday morning in the chill room at Chrysalis, I would have done just about anything (yep, really!) for a cup of hot coffee! Maybe someone who has one of those church-social-style coffee pots could bring one along sometime and we could turn it on around 4am, so people could have a little hot caffiene in the wee hours....... I'd surely chip in on that one! Leslie (coffee fiend among other wonderful vices) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 17:57:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA24845; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:57:19 -0800 Received: from B17.Catch22.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA24840; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:57:12 -0800 Received: from Tecumseh.Catch22.COM (root@Larry.Catch22.COM [204.182.15.11]) by B17.Catch22.COM (8.7.3/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA19415; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:57:29 -0800 X-url: http://www.Catch22.COM/ Received: from Tecumseh.Catch22.COM (jchryslr@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Tecumseh.Catch22.COM (8.7.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA18028; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:58:20 -0800 Message-Id: <199604050158.RAA18028@Tecumseh.Catch22.COM> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: sddpw@sirius.com (Shimako-Dominguez Department of Public Works) cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: ambient recommendations In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 03 Apr 1996 22:31:56 +1200." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 17:58:17 -0800 From: Jesus Chrysler Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > I am hoping someone could recommend a good ambient buy. I am looking > trippy, pretty, whatever, but the most important thing to me is I want HIGH > QUALITY. I want to hear something from an ambient artist/DJ. I do not > want a compilation CD, but am open to the idea if someone knows of a mixed > one. I can't stand when you buy an ambient CD and there's a pause after > each song. Ruins the whole thing for me. These would be some of my top ambient picks for someone new to the "scene": Future Sound of London - Lifeforms Global Communication - 76 14 Single Cell Orchestra - Dead Vent 7 Human Mesh Dance - Mindflower Seefeel - Quique Space Time Continuum - Sea Biscuit, and Alien Dreamtime From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 18:02:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA25414; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:02:21 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA25408; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:02:18 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA07351 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:02:12 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA02590; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:02:15 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA29313; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:02:08 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:03:55 -0800 To: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: UnDrugged Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >YES! Last Sunday morning in the chill room at Chrysalis, I would have >done just >about anything (yep, really!) for a cup of hot coffee! Maybe someone who has >one of those church-social-style coffee pots could bring one along sometime and >we could turn it on around 4am, so people could have a little hot caffiene in >the wee hours....... I'd surely chip in on that one! > >Leslie (coffee fiend among other wonderful vices) Me too! Me too! Let's support our habit; I'm ready to help fund... Jittery, - E Eric P. Peterson Financial Assistant N&CS Materials Management Synopsys Inc. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 18:09:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA25968; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:09:28 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA25959; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:09:26 -0800 Received: from [128.32.160.55] (hmfmac17.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.160.55]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA06879 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:09:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:08:12 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >To everybody: >The arguement is so futile! >If you want to go, then go. If not, go somewhere else or stay home. I disagree. No argument (actually, discussion) is futile here on SFRaves! I thought this was our forum to discuss all the issues pertinent to our community. I am hopeful that what we are doing here is building something special TOGETHER. What I'm worried about with the massives is some promotors (_not_ necessarily Martin) growing rich off of exploiting our ideals. And part of that gnawing suspicion is the fact that, like Black Adder, I really haven't seen _ANYTHING_ at a party that seems to warrant $25 per head (3000 people = $75,000 gross). I believe promotors will charge what the market will bear. And attitudes like, "massives have always been $20, just accept it or go elsewhere," simply reinforce our position as subjects. Raving means, to me, ACTIVE PARTICIPATION. It is UP TO US to protest when we feel taken advantage of. It is UP TO US to let promotors know just what is acceptable and what is not. (i.e. confiscating water bottles, overcrowding, etc.) It is UP TO US to collectively create a healthy, happy scene (NOT just the underground!) And I think $20-25 massives are a NEGATIVE to our image and our personal experience. I do not believe that you ever need to charge more than $15 (please, someone provide figures if you think this is wrong). And I don't believe that we should meekly shut up and simply not go. Let's always SPEAK UP when we feel something is wrong!! (And maybe, for example, I'll be convinced that $20 is perfectly fine). Some of you have expressed that you feel $25 is completely justified, whether in production of the party, or in someone making money (either to reinvest in a growing rave "infrastructure" or just for personal wealth). Thank you for your viewpoint. I think this thread has raised several issues that we should think about as a community: 1) Is our proper role as ravers participatory/advisory, or is it more like a consumer? 2) Is it acceptable for someone to make money from the scene? Are the values of raving and capitalism (mainstream society) necessarily antithetical? 3) Can massives reflect the ideals of the underground? 4) Does there appear to be a growing, enduring rave infrastructure (businesses, ethics, communities) sprouting from this dance subculture?? This is _our_ community. Let's try to make it the best we can!! Much Love, Nancy > >How much money Martin made is none of my business and it is none of yours. > >The only thing that IS my business is whether or not to support his >rave. See some of you there! > >love, >Amy > >--------------- >| _ ,/| | >| '\`o O' | >| =(_^_)= | Amy Starkey >| |U| | sac41673@saclink1.csus.edu >| | | | >--------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 18:14:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA26654; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:14:55 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA26642; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:14:51 -0800 Received: from [128.32.160.55] (hmfmac17.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.160.55]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA06461 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:14:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:13:37 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) Subject: Lurkers No More!! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Just wanted to extend a very warm and happy WELCOME to all of you who peeked out from the shadows!! Glad to know you're with us. Your contributions have been very enlightening, although (for unknown reason) a few of you admitted hesitancy about expressing yourselves. All of you are welcomed here; it is very energizing to get your insights!! More voices and ideas only makes us better (although more messages makes our e-mail time looonger! :P). Stay in touch! Love, Nancy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 18:17:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA26986; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:17:53 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA26926; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:17:46 -0800 Received: from [128.32.160.55] (hmfmac17.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.160.55]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA22564 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:17:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:16:33 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) Subject: Calling for Party Reviews! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk There's been a MAD, a Come-Unity and a Full Moon since last I saw a review. Let's hear about it if you went!! I know I get a vicarious thrill out of the reviews, makes me almost feel like I was there -- (this is how I'm planning to save $25 on the Gathering! :P). From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 18:25:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA27899; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:25:10 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA27889; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:25:07 -0800 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA30890 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:25:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from plunkett@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) id SAA07838; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:21:31 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:21:29 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew James Plunkett Reply-To: Matthew James Plunkett Subject: MDMA and Prozac To: SFRaves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk If MDMA causes brain damage (IMHO, not proved or unproved), then Prozac (fluoxetine) probably eliminates that effect: Mccann, U D, et al. "Reinforcing subjective effects of racemic 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine ("Ecstasy") may be separable from its neurotoxic actions: Clinical evidence." [BA] JOURNAL OF CLINICAL PSYCHOPHARMACOLOGY. 1993 13(3):214-217. Sprague, J E, et al. "The monoamine oxidase-B inhibitor L-deprenyl protects against 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine-induced lipid peroxidation and long-term serotonergic deficits." [BA] JOURNAL OF PHARMACOLOGY AND EXPERIMENTAL THERAPEUTICS. 1995 273(2):667-673. Patefield, I, et al. "Prevention of mdma-induced neurotransmitter depletion in rats and mice 5-ht uptake inhibitors." [BA/RRM] PROCEEDINGS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF OTAGO MEDICAL SCHOOL. 1991 69(1):7-8. BTW, for most of the studies that i've seen that claim neurotoxic effects, the doses of MDMA range from 8 to 30 hits (10-40 mg/kg). ****************************************************************** * Matthew Plunkett * * Nanotech Construction Worker * * UC Berkeley Chemistry * ****************************************************************** From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 18:38:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA28874; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:38:01 -0800 Received: from vanbc.wimsey.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA28860; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:37:54 -0800 Received: by vanbc.wimsey.com (Smail-3.1.29.1 #32) id m0u51N6-0000h9C; Thu, 4 Apr 96 18:35 PST Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:35:32 -0800 (PST) From: Karen Hardie To: Jeremy Nauck cc: SFRaves Mailing List Subject: Re: Top ten lists? In-Reply-To: <31641126.2781E494@netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Sure, I like it! there's so much stuff around that i don't get the chance to hear because ... THERE'S SO MUCH STUFF AROUND! and i love to find out what other folk are listening to which i may have passed over for whatever reason. My list will be forthcoming :) k From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 18:40:02 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA29050; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:40:02 -0800 Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA29042; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:40:00 -0800 Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (ausman@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA15758; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:39:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199604050239.SAA15758@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> To: ambient@netcom.com (Joe Rice) Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 04 Apr 1996 10:55:51 PST." cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 18:39:29 -0800 From: James Ausman Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > >Speaking of rumors and hearsay. =) I've heard similar tales, but basically >the trick is to never trust a dealer. They usually don't know what they >have and are just repeating what someone else up the line has told them. >Now if someone can show me an NMR I'll be convinced. caveat emptor > >Joe > Now, there is such a thing as a reputable drug dealer. They are as rare as gold, and should be treated accordingly. My basic policy is _never_ buy from someone you don't know and trust. I knew one guy that used to literally do NMR's on all his stuff. Of course, this was at Caltech, where we all had access to the NMR machine, but it was still pretty neat. And yeah, these is some crap floating around at raves, so be careful. Hugs, Jim From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 18:52:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA00171; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:52:58 -0800 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA00158; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:52:55 -0800 Received: (from tas12@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id SAA03430; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:52:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:52:31 -0800 (PST) From: TALILLA SCHUSTER X-Sender: tas12@pluto To: Cassandra Ann Thomas cc: Nancy , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I don't do this often! And as I said in my original post, when I do I take *one*..I'm not a complete idiot running around popping pills that have been prescribed to others in massive dosages... On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Cassandra Ann Thomas wrote: > I understand why you take the Prozac to replenish your serotonin levels > but please realize that everybody's levels are different and that a > person on anti-depressents is usually monitored for months before the > right dosage is found. Please be careful. > > Cassandra > > On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, TALILLA > SCHUSTER wrote: > > > Just a little note on seratonin levels after taking e: not to condone > > taking medicine that is not prescribed to you, but my friend in NYC > > sends some of her Prozac for me to take after taking e. Since Prozac does > > the opposite of e (it increases seratonin levels), taking *one* afterwards > > seems to make me feel better. This has absolutely NO scientific basis, > > that I know of, but it helps ME recover. Again, I'm not condoning or > > advertising this, but it sort of makes sense. > > > > Also, while I'm here, I may as well introduce myself: I used to go to > > parties all the time, but a combination of being with the wrong people, > > who were on the wrong drugs, plus getting tired of worrying about not > > being 21 (I'm 19) and a medical thingy made the scene sort of lose its > > luster...Well, I still haven't gone to a party in months, but I'm > > regretting my hasty abandonment and I'm re-evaluating the place that > > raves have in my life. I miss it, ya know? So I've joined this list to > > create a different foundation for myself. By communicating (or mostly > > watching, as of late) with SFRaves, I'm starting to re-establish why I > > started raving in the first place, instead of keeping my not-so-great > > memories. When I find faith again, and trustworthy people, I foresee many > > wonderful experiences. Tell me what you think. > > > > AND, lastly, to anybody thinking of moving here, as I did recently from > > Massachusetts (any New Englanders out there?) there is a service called > > Roommate Referral which is very helpful to find nicely located places in > > your price range. It means moving in w/ ppl you don't know, but that can > > be kind of an adventure. Also, I had NO problem finding work, but my work > > is completely un-computer related, so that might be different. As far as > > the feel of SF, it changes all the time, in each neighborhood, yet it is > > usually good and beautiful (talk about some over-used ajectives, eh?). To > > me, it seems that California can be everything sometimes, and other times > > nothing. Basically, it is a place, that can offer you a lot, but you have > > to be willing to grab it. I guess anywhere is like that. If you've been > > thinking of moving here, do it, because that way your questions will be > > answered. > > Sorry to have rambled...Talilla > > > > > > > > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 19:10:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA01708; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:10:51 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA01699; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:10:48 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:10:47 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Behlendorf To: Nancy cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Lurkers No More!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Nancy wrote: > Just wanted to extend a very warm and happy WELCOME to all of you who > peeked out from the shadows!! Glad to know you're with us. I've been here all along, it's just the time I've had open to participate has been pretty limited, so I find myself on saturdays going through a month's worth of messages only being able to read certain ones... and even then when I find something interesting it's two weeks old ("Oh, that's *so* February!") so I usually can't contribute. I'm trying to get better about that... I have been a lot less active than I was a year or two ago, I admit - the last party I went to was the New Year's Pacific party at the space near Howard, and I felt so unsafe there I left after an hour :( I still admin the list, and I'm still maintaining hyperreal deep behind the scenes (and taking the fall for the bandwidth load hyperreal puts on organic's T1's - at peak it's roughly half a T1), etc. Many of you out there who throw parties have probably formed a close bond with the people who go to your parties - to the extent that you might have a feeling of duty or responsibility to make sure they have a good time in a safe and responsible way at your parties. Imagine that now translated to being an owner of a company, as I am. There are 38 other people whose livelihoods rely upon this company succeeding - and if it comes to a choice between a Sunset on Sunday and finishing a proposal for a client who will keep us afloat another month, the latter usually ends up winning. So, the time that I can spend usually goes towards behind-the-scenes work for this list and hyperreal - which is still tremendously rewarding, even if it is low profile. :) I'll try and get out to Sunset on Sunday - I can't make it to the gathering Saturday night as there's another smaller event happening closeby :) but maybe I'll get to meet some of you there. Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 19:17:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA02524; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:17:57 -0800 Received: from well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA02517; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:17:54 -0800 Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA11215; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:17:57 -0800 From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9604041917.ZM11211@well> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:17:56 -0800 In-Reply-To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) "Re: The Gathering Scam" (Apr 4, 6:08pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy), sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I think the thing that irritates me the most about this whole thread is black adder's supposition that Martin's parties are a "scam." Quite the contrary, he's far more above board than not only almost all "rave" promoters -- maybe only Lonnie of Ultraworld meets the same standard for the larger party crews I know of -- but far more than most musical event promoters *period*. How many of those folks would be willing, as Martin did, to give us a "peek at the budget"? It was an eye-opener, even for me. Martin does it by the book. I have never heard a complaint about a DJ or lighting or sound or other person hired to help on his events not getting paid or otherwise feeling ripped off. He gets permits and works with local police. All of this is far more hassle than I would ever go through. Even if he was walking away with $10,000 cash after expenses three or four times a year: (1) it's none of my business, this is not a fly-by-night thing, much of his crowd is repeat business and who am I to say they are wrong -- they know what they are getting and they *still* spend the $20 or $25; (2) it's not all that much anyway, given, say, a 200-hour time commitment to pull off each party. And that's what it takes, when you add it all up, including not only the time getting the permits, finding the space, lining up equipment, hiring people, doing publicity, but the many additional hours of *promotion* necessary in the scene. And as I say, I doubt he's clearing $10K per event. Now, I myself am not a big fan of his parties but I am damn glad he's doing them. black adder's continued attacks on Martin's integrity go against what I've heard of his work, and observed for my own damn self. I'm sure plenty of things can be said to criticize his style, various things he's done, etc. But at the end of the day, Martin delivers what he says he will. It' s not my cuppa, so I don't usually go. I find that many who *do* report they had a great time. Isn't that enough? Can't we leave this topic behind for good now? phred From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 19:39:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA04337; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:39:31 -0800 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA04331; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:39:28 -0800 Received: (from raygun@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA03780; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:39:20 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:39:20 -0800 (PST) From: Reagan Reid To: Karen Hardie cc: Jeremy Nauck , SFRaves Mailing List Subject: Re: Top ten lists? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Yeah Karen-- I do beleive that that one CD- oh damn what is it, Trance 2 -various artists:). Sorry my Dear- I had to throw that in there. hugs- Reagan On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Karen Hardie wrote: > Sure, I like it! there's so much stuff around that i don't get the > chance to hear because ... THERE'S SO MUCH STUFF AROUND! and i love to > find out what other folk are listening to which i may have passed over > for whatever reason. My list will be forthcoming :) > > k > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 20:17:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA07283; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:17:27 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA07242; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:17:20 -0800 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp049-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.49]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id UAA22962 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:17:24 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960405041701.006ee068@moon.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@moon.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 20:17:01 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Sunburnt 99 Subject: Re: Top ten lists? Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >What does everyone think about starting some sort of >10 ten recommended songs/albums/compilations type of thingy? >I'm always looking for new music and end up archiving everyone's >mail whenever they recommend something! Any thoughts? maybe someone can write a album review cgi script for hyperreal so people could add their own reviews and then anyone can browse them? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 20:18:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA07427; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:18:23 -0800 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA07421; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:18:17 -0800 Received: (from arthurc@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id UAA07094; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:18:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:18:01 -0800 (PST) From: Arthur Chandler X-Sender: arthurc@pluto To: Brian Behlendorf cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Rave Scene -- Instant Replay of the '60's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Though Brian's answer to the unwarranted charges of "selling out" is complete and needs no addition, I can't refrain from adding my own "elder statesman" voice to his. See below --> On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Brian Behlendorf wrote: > On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Bruce E. wrote: > > I'm Bruce Eisner, author of Ecstasy: The MDMA Story. I was interviewed in > > the current issue of XLR8R. > > > > I have a few comments about the rave scene that I want to append to the > > interview and ask for comments. > > > > 1. It appears that the Rave scene is beginning to resemble the Rock scene of > > the 60's. Big promoters with money interests are becoming the rule in rave > > promotions, with only a few "special" parties for insiders lacking the > > veneer of commercialism. This was true of the 60's. Rock started out as > > "underground" and became "establishment." > > Same as it ever was... people were decrying this as a problem back in > 1989. The truth is always less stark than a sweeping statement can ever > capture - and in my opinion and many other people's opinions, the scene > in SF today is farther from this than it ever was. There are big > parties, there are *tons* of smaller parties, and there are very few > promoters doing this for a living. Which is as it should be - throwing > parties for a living means that your focus is on something other than > having fun, incidentially with "n" other people. The traffic on this > list should make that obvious... > The same was true into the 70s. Though the media and social pundits were fond of singing the "sellout!" blues, in fact, the scene continued unabated in many, many smaller venues. My own group, THESIS, played at off-the-wall and out of the way places. But it never occurred to us to be resentful or envious of the Grateful Dead or Bill Graham. They continued to play righteous music and made huge bucks at it -- and why not? We felt they had earned it, and glad they could be self-supporting and continue the scene. But those of us who were playing in the boonies for much less were also having a very good time playing the music we wanted to play. When I went to the GG Park rave last Sunday, I flashed back on my own experiences playing in the Park a long time ago. There was plenty of good energy, people dancing and laughing and making friends. To most people in both scenes, that's what the music and "vibe" were/are about. If you focus on those who are trying to make $$ on the action -- well, that's your lookout. > > 2. The Levi Web site is an example of how raves can be exploited for large > > corporate interests. Again, this parallels the 'sixties. I feel sad that > > SFRaves own Brian B. is involved in this obvious exploitation. > > I feel sad that someone feels like they need to cut down folks for running a > company which employs quite a few people from this scene, and a company > without whom there would be no bandwidth provided for a machine to distribute > the SFRaves mailing list for you to attack me on... the fact that I had to > forward your message by hand to the list only adds to the sweet irony. > Yes, you know, we do sit around all day and dream up ways to milk the > rave teat to sell more jeans... uh..... > In the 60s and 70s, I saw this same kind of armchair-quarterbacking -- "Hey! If I were down there instead of Steve Young, I woulda made a touchdown instead of getting crushed by that 290 pound linebacker" says Joe Sixpack watching the game on his Sony Entertainment Center -- and am still struck by how easy it is to diss folks who are trying to make a living at something they love, without having to go through the 1001 complexities of actually pulling it off. I saw the same dissing-from-a-distance last year when some of the people from Cyborganic spoke to a class at SFSU. Cyborganic's synthesis of communitarian ideals and biz practice evoked outcries of "Sellout!" or even "Treachery!" from people who had never yet tried, long-term, to do what they love and get the rent paid without help from parents. So... I'm sure that Brian is pulling down $200 K a year, has an apartment in Paris and a Lamborghini named "Laura".... but isn't he, just maybe, doing us a favor by putting his energy into this list, the archives, the Hyperreal site....? Come on, Bruce -- put some reality and some gratitude into your mix. > Brian > -- Arthur (Almost finished with the SFRaves rooms at BayMOO) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 20:19:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA07537; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:19:18 -0800 Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA07530; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:19:15 -0800 From: Trolup@aol.com Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA05363 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:18:46 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:18:46 -0500 Message-ID: <960404231845_462791617@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Tracy Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Does anybody have Tracys email address? if so please send it over to Trolup@aol.com thanx jen From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 21:13:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA12487; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:13:17 -0800 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA12480; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:13:15 -0800 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA07385; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:13:07 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:13:06 -0800 (PST) To: Fred Heutte cc: Nancy , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: <9604041917.ZM11211@well> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Fred Heutte wrote: > I think the thing that irritates me the most about this whole thread is > black adder's supposition that Martin's parties are a "scam." Quite Now wait a fucking minute. I never, *NEVER* claimed Martin's parties are a *SCAM* . I feel that the parties cost too much given what I have seen of them. To put this whole thing in a "business" perspective because that is what this whole issue has devolved into(and I most certainly consider viewing the issue of raving as purely business devolution,) he is delivering a product, and I don't think that product is worth $25 *IN MY EXPERIENCE*. And I would tell that to anyone who asked. You have no right to attribute words I never typed to me, and I do resent it, whatever difference, if any, that makes. > Now, I myself am not a big fan of his parties but I am damn glad he's > doing them. black adder's continued attacks on Martin's integrity go > against what I've heard of his work, and observed for my own damn self. So what do you suggest Phred? I be blacklisted because I have a different opinions and am firm enough in those opinions to voice them publicly, and stand by my beliefs? Understand this: (1) I do not support any party costing $25 without some mitigating circumstances, put on by *ANYONE* (2) I do not apologize for this view and will voice my opinion wherever and whenever the hell I feel it is appropriate, rather the majority agrees with me or not. The topic is relevant to this list, and given the amount of traffic it has generated, of some interest. > Isn't that enough? Can't we leave this topic behind for good now? Go right ahead, leave the topic behind you. If you have a standard keyboard, it contains the "D" key. Use it. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 21:28:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA13563; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:28:59 -0800 Received: from mail.crl.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA13556; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:28:57 -0800 Received: from crl2.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA25567 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:25:16 -0800 Received: by crl2.crl.com id AA27249 (5.65c/IDA-1.5); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:12:18 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:12:17 -0800 (PST) From: Kathryn Ankrum To: Tony Rotundo Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: UnDrugged In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Tony Rotundo wrote: > I often bring a thermos full of coffee and find it quite nice and stimulating. > > I've often thought about selling espresso shots at parties. Even just > plain old cups of fresh joe would would be nice wouldn't it. (The drink > that is, not the Rice. ;^) > > Wonder how others feel. Hmmmm... I'd buy one! There have been times when I've *longed* for a coffee -- would have probably paid any price too. Lacking it, I usually end up going home. Is there any particular reason they don't sell it? Kathryn From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 21:32:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA13753; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:32:09 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA13748; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:32:06 -0800 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp049-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.49]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id VAA26978 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:32:09 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960405053146.0070ac74@moon.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@moon.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 21:31:46 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Sunburnt 99 Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Go right ahead, leave the topic behind you. If you have a standard >keyboard, it contains the "D" key. Use it. yes.. let's everyone chill. stuff is started to get misinterpreted. let's someone split this up into relavent threads. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 21:53:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA15525; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:53:50 -0800 Received: from boris.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA15519; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:53:48 -0800 Received: by boris.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.1) id VAA11624; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:53:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 21:53:44 -0800 (PST) From: Albert Chan X-Sender: ez006498@boris.ucdavis.edu To: Courtney Nielsen cc: Spiritual 99 , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Serotonin In-Reply-To: <199604042035.MAA16139@norway.it.earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Courtney: On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Courtney Nielsen wrote: > > The difference between serotonin and LSD is a slightly different structure, > but still not enough of a difference to be rejected by the receptor. The concentration of LSD found centrally is too small after "normal" dosage to directly manifest the effects of increased serotonin levels. According to more recent research, LSD-25 actually is a competitive antagonist to 5-HT at the 5HT-1A autoreceptor. In human speak, this means that LSD prevents serotonin to bind to its autoreceptor, which normally tells the raphe nucleus how much serotonin is currently circulating centrally. Because LSD binds with such high affinity, no serotonin can bind its autoreceptor, and the brain thinks there is no serotonin circulating. As a result, the brain nearly all of its serotonin in bulk. THus, the "pleasurable" effects felt after dosing LSD come from the brain's own realease of all of its serotonin. This is why serotonin is so depleted following LSD (or MDMA) intake, and can be for up to six months. This may also account for why subsequent LSD or MDMA doses have less effect than the 1st time; the brain has not remanufactured enough serotonin before the second dump. From what I've read, there have been no statistically measurable effects of long term serotonin depletion, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Take care -alberT From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 22:41:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA18619; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 22:41:38 -0800 Received: from club.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA18613; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 22:41:33 -0800 Received: from [157.22.222.111] by club.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1b9); Thu, 4 Apr 1996 22:41:22 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 22:40:43 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Wayne D. Correia" Subject: Negativland, Jonah Sharp, Hardkiss (Scott&Gavin) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > @@@ @ > @@@ @@@ > @@@ @@@@@ > @@@ @@@ > @@@ @@@ > @@@ @@@ > @@@@@ @@@ @@@ > @@@ @@@ @@@@@ @@@ > @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ > @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ > @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ > @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ > @@@ @@@ @@@ @@@ > @@@ @@@@ @@@ @@@ > > * * * a n n o u n c i n g * * * > > BLASTHAUS ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY EXTRAVAGANZA > > blasthaus is pleased to announce in conjunction with > soundculture96 and the gallery's one year anniversary: > >************PREMEDITATED BREAKDOWN************ > > Thursday April 11, 1996 > at the Trocadero Transfer > 520 4th Street at Bryant, SF > Doors : 8pm. Music : 9pm. > Tickets are $11 > at BASSx outlets, Reckless > Records, and Record Finder > All ages welcome. > >*PREMEDITATED BREAKDOWN* is a live sonic art experience > featuring in their first Bay Area appearance in over 3 years > >*****************NEGATIVLAND******************* > >in collaboration with rhythmic environments and noisebeds > provided by San Francisco's most experimental DJ's > >*************Scott & Gavin HARDKISS*************** > >********Jonah Sharp (Space Time Continuum)********** > >The extravaganza also features live visual jamming with > the director and producer of Sonic Outlaws > >*****************Craig Baldwin******************* > > >Negativland will be improvising live with their notorious style as evidenced >by several dozen record releases dating back to 1981 and their monthly radio >show "Over the Edge" broadcast on KPFA-FM in Berkeley in which in-coming >phone lines invite callers to participate in creating a bizarre, witty and >often mysterious sonic landscape. PREMEDITATED BREAKDOWN is their first-ever >collaboration with the rhythms of several renowned disc jockeys. Along side >band members Mark Hosler, Don Joyce, Chris Grigg, David Wills (a.k.a. "the >Weatherman") will be the innovative HARDKISS DJ's and Space Time Continuum's >Jonah Sharp mixing the rhythmic environments and noise beds to provide a >percussive component to the event. Among the most innovative free-form DJ's >in the world, these names bring with them the key elements of the underground >rave scene to create an experience reaching from experimental ambient >soundscapes to frenetic dance energy. > >The sonic artists of PREMEDITATED BREAKDOWN arise out of a media-savvy >subculture which borrows from existing sound production - a process often >referred to as "sampling" or "found sounds." The context of PREMEDITATED >BREAKDOWN centers around the technical aspects of sound - it's properties and >how sounds occur - along with the technical difficulties relating to sound >such as out-takes, mistakes and jamming. In this context it becomes unclear >what is "original" anymore and what is repurposed or "appropriated". In a >world with such aggressive media bombardment at every front, the increasing >speed at which we are forced to process sonic information alters not only >what we hear but how we hear it. Negativland has developed a truly original >way of creating and composing sound with astounding technical finesse using >existing sound bytes, noise, live sound, sonic manipulation, interrupted >signals and jamming. Don't miss this rare opportunity to partake in an >unforgettable sonic art experience. > > >blasthaus is a gallery devoted to the convergence of art and technology, >including video, interactive sculpture, sound installations, multimedia, and >robotics. For SoundCulture 96 the gallery will feature sonic artworks by >Bureau of Inverse Technology (BIT), Jim Cambell, Wang Po Shu, Kenneth >Rinaldo and Amy Youngs. The gallery is located at 217 Second Street in San >Francisco. >Hours: Tue-Fri 11-6pm and Sat noon-5pm. Admission is free. For more info call >(415) 789-8044. > >SoundCulture 96 is the third transpacific festival of contemporary sound >practices. It follows two highly successful SoundCulture festivals presented >in Sydney in 1991 and Tokyo in 1993. SoundCulture 96 brings together artists, >researchers and cultural theorists in performances, exhibitions, symposia, >radio transmissions, experimental, indigenous music and new media forms. >For more info call (510) 848-0124 ext. 623 > >william linn, blasthaus >217 second street, sf, ca 94105 >415.896.1700 >blasthaus@aol.com >http://www.blasthaus.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 23:09:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA20699; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:09:46 -0800 Received: from well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA20691; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:09:43 -0800 Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA23464; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:09:49 -0800 From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9604042309.ZM23460@well> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:09:48 -0800 In-Reply-To: Brian Behlendorf "The Rave Scene -- Instant Replay of the '60's (fwd)" (Apr 4, 4:28pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: Brian Behlendorf , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Rave Scene -- Instant Replay of the '60's (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I find myself staring in disbelief at the latest missive from Bruce/Bruce Eisner/Ehrlich. Talk about hit-and-run, passive-aggressive flaming. I could not agree more that the scene needs rejuvenation. Hello, Bruce! That's old news! It's the theme of sfraves since nearly the beginning, if you ask me. The difference is that we've all tried to do something about it. I'm not trying to puff up our efforts or this list or whatever, as the old cliche goes, "just fact, not brag." But 'tis truth. As for the commercialization of the scene, well, heh heh, SF remains probably the best scene in the world that is *not* totally overloaded with commercialization. I am truly appalled at the changes that have occurred in the UK since 1994. Just take a look at any issue of Mixmag or DJ Magazine and you'll see what I mean. What happened to hip hop here starting in the mid-1980s has happened there with house and techno, replete with all the insincerity, faddishness, superficiality and outright corruption of not just the rock scene but the "rap" scene here, which trades on the indisputable authenticity and vision of the early hip hop/rap pioneers to mint commercial gold for investors who don't give a shit and "stars" who take their fantasies of fame far too seriously. All that has happened in Europe as well -- with OUR kind of music providing the wallpaper for a gusher of money. But let's keep it in perspective. Where parties the size of Martin's could be easily found in the general media in the UK, where Pete Tong and others are media supahstahs because of their ***national*** radio broadcasts (and I have a fair bit of respect for Pete Tong so don't get me wrong!), NONE of that can be found here, even in San Francisco, where the "Friday nite mix show" is about the most media coverage any of thje music we remotely associate with our scene gets any serious attention. We are underground because we want to be and, quite frankly, there isn't much choice. Thank whatever deities you like for that, believe me. There's an underground scene for hip hop and rock too -- but it's a lot harder to sustain when everyone is deafened by the shouting from MTV and Rolling Stone (who??) and Details and Vibe and Spin and all the rest. Unlike England, where the commercial suckathon is in full swing, the Levi's Web site doesn't bother me much. The company has plenty of warts but as big companies go, it's head and shoulders above almost all. They gave the project not to a Big Time Advertising Agency but to a small and nearly unknown, nearly *underground*, startup. My own personal opinion is that the money-suck aspect of the Net is a serious issue we all have to deal with. Trivializing it by sloganeering like Bruce/Bruce did helps us not one little bit. And as for Levi's, Organic and Brian B, I especially resent the statement that this represents a copout and a sellout. Aside from the cheekiness of attacking the manager of the very mailing list this is being spouted on, it simply doesn't fit the facts. As it happens, I talked with DRC, one of the featured DJs on the Levi's site, about all this just a few days ago. She didn't think it was really that big a deal. I don't believe it's that big a deal. The site itself has some advanced technical and creative work that most everyone agrees adds up to a pretty neat URL in a sea of Webjunk. Am I pissed because Brian is a friend of mine and I'm standing up for him? You bet. But it's also because this aspect of Bruce's posting is so shallow and unfair. I'm *happy* when my friends get well-paying gigs to do seriously creative work that promotes a pretty decent product (ever worn and *liked* Levi's clothing or its many imitators, Bruce??). Hey, I'm as radical politically as anyone, but this is not the time or the place that the masses are going to rise up and play Smash the State. We live in a context where, to my way of thinking, getting paid for doing something you really like and are actually given leeway to do without being hammered by a bunch of fluffbrain marketroids is actually pretty damn cool. Ya wanna crummy product promoted by marketroid fluffbrains? Herbal E is yer deal... On that one, I totally agree with Bruce. Too bad he can't apparently see the difference between that and Levi's. Big is (often but) not (always) bad, necessarily, and small, nasty and greedy is to be avoided like the plague. I will say this: Bruce/Bruce is damn good at pushing emotional buttons, especially those of us with roots in the '60s who remember that one of the POINTS of that time was to state your case honestly and with respect because the System thrives on bullshit, bad attitude and hidden agendas. Sorry for the rant. I just hadda do it. :c bruce@mindmedia.com peace out. phred From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 23:20:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA21587; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:20:50 -0800 Received: from well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA21528; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:20:45 -0800 Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA26221; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:20:46 -0800 From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9604042320.ZM26212@well> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:20:45 -0800 In-Reply-To: blkadder@value.net "Re: The Gathering Scam" (Apr 4, 9:13pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: blkadder@value.net, Fred Heutte Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Cc: Nancy , sfraves@hyperreal.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART-BOUNDARY=.19604042320.ZM26212.well" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk --PART-BOUNDARY=.19604042320.ZM26212.well Content-Description: Text Content-Type: text/plain ; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Zm-Decoding-Hint: mimencode -q -u Well, I apologize to Black Adder, because in the heat of ranting = I forgot that he didn't start "The Gathering Scam" thread. = But that is no excuse for this kind of thing: "If you have a standard keyboard, it contains the "D" key. Use it." One of the great things about sf-raves is that participants here have almost uniformly avoided the temptation to indulge in classic net.flaming= like this. I choose to assume this was done in error in the heat of response, just as my mistake was. = I don't mind a good tough verbal joust over these issues, but what bother= s me, quite frankly, is that we've been over all this ground about and WITH= Martin before. I've put down my thoughts on it, and that's that from my point of view. = phred =04 --PART-BOUNDARY=.19604042320.ZM26212.well-- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 23:49:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA23375; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:49:37 -0800 Received: from cronopio.ibase.br by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA23361; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:49:33 -0800 Received: from fama.ibase.br (fama.ibase.br [200.18.178.14]) by cronopio.ibase.br (8.6.12/Revision: 1.203 ) with SMTP id EAA09244; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 04:50:37 -0300 Received: from du-22.du.ibase.org.br (dpsrosa@du-22.du.ibase.org.br [200.18.179.22]) by fama.ibase.br (8.6.12/Revision: 1.6 ) with SMTP id EAA17107; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 04:50:36 -0300 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 04:50:36 -0300 Message-Id: <199604050750.EAA17107@fama.ibase.br> X-Sender: dpsrosa@pop X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sddpw@sirius.com (Shimako-Dominguez Department of Public Works), sfraves@hyperreal.com From: dpsrosa@ax.ibase.org.br (Dirceu Pereira) Subject: chill-out room recommendations Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I am trying to put up a chill-out party. Just need to get some new ideas and recommendations about what you can do to make a place like a junked warehouse into some clean and confortable place, where people can, at least, feel good and catch a good vibe. Any suggestions??? expereiences??? thanks :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Thu Apr 4 23:57:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA23873; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:57:28 -0800 Received: from emout10.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA23862; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 23:57:25 -0800 From: CozmicSky@aol.com Received: by emout10.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA29391 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 02:57:01 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 02:57:01 -0500 Message-ID: <960405025701_185142202@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: i need to get off this list. HELP! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk If anyone could tell me the basic steps on signing off this list, that would be great. I will now longer be were this computer is, so I need to stop it. Thank you very kindly. And good bye! Pam From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 01:04:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA00154; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 01:04:12 -0800 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA00149; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 01:04:10 -0800 Received: from [153.36.85.76] (Cust12.Max6.Santa-Clara.CA.MS.UU.NET [153.36.85.76]) by mh1.well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA19838 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 01:03:40 -0800 Message-Id: <199604050903.BAA19838@mh1.well.com> X-Sender: crunch@mail.well.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 01:05:12 +1000 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: crunch@well.com (John Draper) Subject: In the corridors of power... Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Saw this on UK Dance, thought you might enjoy this... Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:31:49 GMT From: DaveK Subject: In the corridors of power... [Scene: A ministry office in Whitehall. Michael Howard is receiving his weekly briefing from his top adviser...] MH: Now, Sir Humphrey, what's the latest on the youth of the nation? Are they still revolting? HA: Certainly minister, quite appalling in fact. A load of idle, unwashed, scruffy .... MH: No, no, no Sir Humphrey. I mean are they still rebelling against our authority? By what means are they expressing their rejection of conventional politics these days? HA: Apparently, sir, they are ''raving''. MH: Raving, eh? Well I can't say I'm surprised. When you consider the damage that we've wreaked upon the NHS, the education system, the economy and so on, you would expect them to be pretty angry... HA: No, no, no minister. I don't mean that they're raving mad. I am referring to these new-fangled so-called ''acid-house rave parties''. MH: You mean they're starting parties? This sounds serious. Do you believe they may damage our chances of winning the next election? HA: Oh no minister, I don't mean political parties. I mean party-type entertainment-type, loud-music-and-dancing type parties. You know? Fun? MH: I don't quite see the relevance of that, Sir Humphrey. HA: I rather thought you might not, minister. MH: I beg your pardon? Speak up. HA: Sorry, minister. What I mean is that they gather together in large groups, and play loud music, and all get quite ''on one matey'', as I believe the current slang has it... MH: Yes? And then what? HA: And then nothing, minister. That's all. Generally they sit around doing nothing, or ''chill out'', to use the trendy slang again. MH: I'm not quite sure I understand, Sir Humphrey. How is this meant to stop us from doing quite exactly whatever we please? HA: It's not, minister. In fact, many of them are under the impression that there is no need to pay us any attention at all. Only the other day, Nigel was observed on Uk-Dance saying > What's this buzz about power ? Who gives a shit about power ? Where's > this power going to invade from ? Are you paranoid ? Political power > is a farce,... MH: I see, Sir Humphrey. And I admire the way you pronounced those > symbols to make it clear you were quoting. HA: One does ones best, sir. MH: Indeed. So the so-called radical youth of today are under the impression that we have no power, are they? HA: Why yes indeed, sir. It's quite strange - one moment they are complaining that ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: Guaranteed safe when used as directed. Some assembly may be required. Batteries not included. May cause drowsiness. Keep all e-mail out of the reach of children. Not insured under the Export Credit Guarantee Scheme. Remember, the value of e-mail may go up as well as down. No more than 10 persons (1700 lbs) at one time. Contents may have settled during shipping. Void where prohibited by law. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 04:46:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id EAA19844; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 04:46:56 -0800 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id EAA19834; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 04:46:53 -0800 Received: from [153.37.82.78] (pool014.Max3.Santa-Clara.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.82.78]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id EAA19340 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 04:45:22 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 04:46:42 +0200 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: exodus@earthlink.net (Austin) Subject: Tribal Funk and weekend plans Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Good day friends and family! I just wanted to say I will be attending Tribal Funk this friday. Yes, I disapproved of the way it was handaled last time in Richmond however, my very good friend Essence is spinning 10-12 and I want to support(BP I guess). I have been hearing him spin for the past 2 weeks at a friends house and I can't wait to hear him for a full set - great stuff. Also apperring DONALD GLAUDE (seattle) JOHN HOWARD BUCK (strictlt rhythms) info -415.905.4476 The only draw back for some ppl is the location (The deli where ORIGIN was) but I still will have a great time. See anyone there? I will have my laminate so say hi. I will be up front till 12 to hear my frind. :) I have to work sat. night and easter morning (main draw back of waitering) however,I still want to make it to the Gathering. (I too haven't missed one in a year. I loved basiics and the ladt Gathering in December. It is at Home Base I guess. Have a good weekend everyone.... __/-^-\__ <<<>>> `'\-*-/`' _@_/` ~\_e_/~ _G/ O ~\_Q_ ~\_8_| _9_ ~/ }} (*) < =99 /|\ (.)\, [#] ,/ }}\, \\ /| ~\/ \ _=3D=3D=3D___=3D=3D=3D_ // / \ /\/ // \\ / [___________] \\ \ / \ ~~ ~~ ~ ^ ^ ~~ ~ ~ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 07:47:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id HAA29907; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 07:47:01 -0800 Received: from gw3.pacbell.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id HAA29877; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 07:46:58 -0800 Received: from srv.PacBell.COM (mother.srv.PacBell.COM) by gw3.pacbell.com (5.x/PacBell-10/18/95) id AA02952; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 07:45:31 -0800 Received: from pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM by srv.PacBell.COM (4.1/Mother-7/26/95) id AA02009; Fri, 5 Apr 96 07:45:30 PST Received: by pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07509; Fri, 5 Apr 96 07:45:25 PST From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel) Message-Id: <9604051545.AA07509@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM> Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam To: blkadder@value.net Date: Fri, 5 Apr 96 7:45:25 PST Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: ; from "blkadder@value.net" at Apr 4, 96 9:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Black Adder: > To put this whole thing in a "business" perspective because that is > what this whole issue has devolved into(and I most certainly consider > viewing the issue of raving as purely business devolution,) Perhaps this is the crux of the disagreement then; your insistance that raving be analyzed purely as a business product. There is a legacy of experiences people have had at raves that transcend business issues; issues of inspiration, community, family, tradition, friendships... For many people, Martin's (and many other's) parties have been, and continue to be part of a legacy. Breaking down a rave into it's financial piece-parts loses sight of such intangiables. I could easily argue how many of our favorite underground parties fail miserably as "product", but I never go to raves to get my money's worth. Lee _________________________________________________________________________ lxfogel@pacbell.com ( ( ( ( ((0)) ) ) ) ) lee@hyperreal.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 08:06:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA01824; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 08:06:12 -0800 Received: from cmac20.Colorado.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA01819; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 08:06:08 -0800 Received: from 0.0.0.0 (198.59.61.5) by cmac20.Colorado.EDU with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1b10); Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:08:36 -0700 Message-ID: <31654582.7394@andy.colorado.edu> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 09:08:34 -0700 From: Andy Hawks Reply-To: andy@cmac20.colorado.edu Organization: CAUSE X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b2 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com CC: bruce@mindmedia.com Subject: Re: The Rave Scene -- Instant Replay of the '60's References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk as arthur said, brian's reply to bruce's comments are complete and stand on their own, but i wanted to openly express some "new skool" thoughts on the matter. Brian Behlendorf wrote: > > On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Bruce E. wrote: > > I'm Bruce Eisner, author of Ecstasy: The MDMA Story. I was interviewed in > > the current issue of XLR8R. first of all, because this conversation relates to xlr8r and bruce eisner makes it no more important for our culture than this same dialoguge appearing time and time again with regularity on alt.rave and any given regional rave list. however it does make it more notweorthy because the people and media involved are greater attractors in this community, and that's what makes me sad on one hand and happy on the other -- that you can find more passionate, more thoughtful commentary on this age-old subject Bruce mentions among 15 year-olds on alt.rave or on any regional list. it makes me sad in that i think bruce knows better than to make blanket generalizations more sweeping than the AIDS quilt, xlr8r knows better than to immediately turn their attention towards someone solely on the basis of their credentials and not the substance of their thought. (i have not read the xlr8r article -- xlr8r is hard to come by here in Colorado -- available at one store nowadays -- but i'm going under the assumption the rest of the article follows a pattern of opinions similar to what bruce expressed here). > > 1. It appears that the Rave scene is beginning to resemble the Rock scene of > > the 60's. Big promoters with money interests are becoming the rule in rave > > promotions, with only a few "special" parties for insiders lacking the > > veneer of commercialism. This was true of the 60's. Rock started out as > > "underground" and became "establishment." > > Same as it ever was... this is all that needs to be said ("same as it ever was"). commercialism, appropriation of that commercial interest, grass-roots organization, and family organization have all played important parts in the development of this global culture. they each stand as a central element of this culture's past, present, and it's prosperity in the future. each has contributed positively globally, and positively or negatively locally depending on: where you live, how long you've been paying attention to this culture, your overall worldview, who your friends are, etc. acceptance of all these elements (grass roots->big commercialism) working together symbiotically has helped this culture grow over 4 or 5 or 6 continents the past 10 years. loss of the commercial interest in the scene is loss of an arm or a leg -- which makes it harder to dance. loss of the family element is loss of the heart, and loss of life. > I feel sad that someone feels like they need to cut down folks for running a > company which employs quite a few people from this scene, and a company > without whom there would be no bandwidth provided for a machine to distribute > the SFRaves mailing list for you to attack me on... the fact that I had to > forward your message by hand to the list only adds to the sweet irony. > Yes, you know, we do sit around all day and dream up ways to milk the > rave teat to sell more jeans... uh..... when i ran an email list entitled FutureCulture, i used to get accused of selling out when i was a source for media or when articles of mine appeared in any media that did not have it's roots within our small elitist circle we admired that consisted of things largely along the lines of Mondo 2000, Fringeware Review, bOING-bOING, that sort of thing. It's not selling out. It's taking advantage of the resources at your disposal to give something back to the community and hopefully make yuor life better in the process. It's still community. I've said this time and time again, but, when i first got onto the net back when I was a freshman or sophomore in high school and had an intense interest in the viability of virtual communities, Brian was someone who's example I followed in community-building. Brian has done more to actually build communities then almost anyone, communities which have had a rippling effect in expanding rave culture, and net culture, around the world on and off the net. It bothers me that someone (esp. like Mr. Eisner) would blatantly slam *anyone* in this one-dimensional way. Noone here is defined solely by rave culture, and I think Mr. Eisner conveniently lost sight of that diversity of the self. To look at anyone on sf-raves as "Mr/s. Net-Raver Person" is a disservice to their other projects, hobbies, interests, and defining characteristics BEYOND the rave community -- multi-dimensional people in a multi-dimensional world. I think Brian articulated well that his two interests that Bruce sees as being at odds with each other actually work together positively. Most people wouldn't even bother to look back if they were in the position Brian is -- ideally everyone should be thankfull that Brian is still Mr. Net-Raver Person alongside his other growing and expanding interests. We should all be thankfull that we all have that in common. -- __ __ ___/ ) andy@andy.colorado.edu ( \___ (___) (_____ peace<->love<->unity<->respect _____) (___) (___)> _____ believe in the power of love _____ <(___) (___)_/ \_(___) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 08:57:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA05393; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 08:57:06 -0800 Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA05387; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 08:57:04 -0800 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id LAA27394; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:56:22 -0500 Date: 05 Apr 96 11:54:38 EST From: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" Subject: Re: ComeUnity Review Message-ID: <960405165437_71165.755_GHL111-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk OK, Nancy wanted a review .... so here's my review of ComeUnity... I LOVE JENO (have I said that before?) Let me say it again. I LOVE JENO. He totally rocked the house, he was smooth and funky and never stopped, great music and great mixes, the perfect combination. I could not stop dancing. Then Simon carried it on. Then I had to leave (gotta get rid of this 8:30 in the morning job!), but my friends who stayed had a great time all night. Really, there was such amazing energy at ComeUnity this week -- people were just slamming, screaming, waving their arms in the air, there were some really intense moments. I know a lot of people don't like the club atmosphere at 1015, and it does get WAY crowded, but the music can be so right on for my tastes. I saw Moonpup outside as I was leaving and he was on his way out because the sound system was really bothering him -- fortunately for me, my ears aren't that sensitive, and so the problems that he could hear with the bass and the system weren't obvious to me, so I was totally happy. I always feel so blessed that I can go out somewhere right in the middle of the week, and dance so hard! You'll find me at Wicked hoping for more of the same! Leslie :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 09:02:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA05868; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:02:12 -0800 Received: from elaine15.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA05857; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:02:05 -0800 Received: (from starchld@localhost) by elaine15.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA17988 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:02:04 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Kodama Message-Id: <199604051702.JAA17988@elaine15.Stanford.EDU> Subject: when the grass was greener ... To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:02:04 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk after reading this latest thread about 'senior ravers' informing me that the scene is completely sold-out, commercialized, and not hardly as good as it used to be, i'm reminded of why i decided to started using my delete key so freely on sfraves mail. from time to time somebody seems to feel the need to post some comments to the effect that sfraves is just a big bunch of cyber-whiners - and by and large, i think that's bunk. i actually appreciate hearing about parties that bit as well as parties that were incredible, since apparently they can't all be wonderful and given that i would much rather only be at the parties i'll enjoy! (imagine that ...) but it's these 'grass was greener' postings that really are a downer - what's the point? if you were there, then you _already_ know it used to be better - if you weren't, then reading the message is only a bring-down. wouldn't it be more productive to make suggestions aimed at improving the current scene, or developing alternatives, or whatever, instead of fixating on nostalgia? save it for the couch, thanks much. or perhaps the grass really wasn't much greener, and certain people need to start having a little more fun these days? an interesting possibility. anyway, sorry about that ranting :) NON-RANTING HAPPY COMMENT! you might want to check out the shamen-arbor bona arbor mala album - it's the second cd in the double with axis mutatis, which i thought was pretty spotty, even given that i like the shamen a fair bit. but that second disk! all instrumental, well crafted up- and down-swings in intensity and drive - also i could swear i heard several tracks remixed to excellent effect during the middle to late sets at chrysalis. check it out! matt. -- |=======================================================================| | | | i have the world's largest collection of seashells. i keep it on all | | the beaches of the world ... perhaps you've seen it. | | | | you know how it is when you're reading a book and falling asleep, | | you're reading, reading ... and all of a sudden you notice your eyes | | are closed? i'm like that all the time. | | | | i put tape on the mirrors in my house so i don't accidentally walk | | through into another dimension. | | | | - steven wright | | | |=======================================================================| -starchld@leland.stanford.edu--the mothership can be reached at 493-4099- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 09:03:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA06013; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:03:20 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA06005; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:03:16 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA27065 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:03:12 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA25039; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:03:16 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA06464; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:03:13 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:04:58 -0800 To: Brian Behlendorf From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: Lurkers No More!! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Brian, Your work is very much appreciated. Thanks for helping all of us to keep the scene alive! Much love, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 09:12:42 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA06852; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:12:42 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA06847; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:12:39 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA27534 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:12:29 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA25834; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:12:33 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA08156; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:12:30 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:14:14 -0800 To: blkadder@value.net From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Way to go, Adder! Why don't we spend more bandwidth on discussion, and less on bitching and mud-slinging. That's not what PLUR is all about. At the least, some of us can agree to disagree and respect each other for it. Optimistic Yes? Always supportive, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 09:23:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA07752; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:23:55 -0800 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA07744; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:23:50 -0800 Received: (from raygun@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA25738; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:21:05 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:21:05 -0800 (PST) From: Reagan Reid To: Dirceu Pereira cc: Shimako-Dominguez Department of Public Works , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: chill-out room recommendations In-Reply-To: <199604050750.EAA17107@fama.ibase.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Dirceu Pereira wrote: > > I am trying to put up a chill-out party. Just need to get some new ideas and recommendations about what you can do to make a place like a junked warehouse into some clean and confortable place, where people can, at least, feel good and catch a good vibe. > > Any suggestions??? expereiences??? > > thanks :) > > Well from my own expereiences at both home and at Parties, I would suggest: 1) Lots of beanbags 2) Lots of pillows- the bigger the better 3) Good lighting-dim but not too dark 4) Enough cool air either provided by open windows/doors and/or fans **** hey-without this part we couldn't call it a *chill* room;) 5) Candles 6) Perhaps a nice alter-ie.- the one in the chill room at Chrysalis was beautiful! 7) Last but not least- Loads of people to share the time and experience with! just my 2 marks -Reagan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 09:47:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA09887; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:47:50 -0800 Received: from xanadu.cyborganic.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA09882; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:47:47 -0800 Received: (from tsheets@localhost) by xanadu.cyborganic.net (8.7.5/8.7.1) id JAA20576; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:48:49 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Sheets Message-Id: <199604051748.JAA20576@xanadu.cyborganic.net> Subject: Mixtape Review! To: socal-raves@ucsd.edu Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:48:49 -0800 (PST) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hey kids, I just got a copy of Christopher Lawerence's (LA) new mixtape "Odyssey" and I just wanted to share with everyone that this tape rocks!! I think there is a deffinate "LA" sound in los angeles. Recent tapes I have purchased including Scott Free/Andren, and Thomas Michael all have that acidy sound over funky and progressive beats that I can't get enough of. The best part of "Odyssey" is the incredible synth sounds. This tape does not rely on 303 for acid sounds. Not that I have anything against 303, it is just great to hear artists squeezing incredible sounds out of other synths. There are portions of this tape that are truly awe-inspiring... I know C.L. was spinning at Dune... and while listening to the tape this morning I could, through the music, totally project myself onto the desert at sunrise. Those analogue synths slowly building up and coming down like gentle waves of positive energy. The tempo of this tape is what I consider "ideal"... not too fast, but with plenty of energy. There is a good balance between "trancing you out" to get you into good mindsets, and "breaking it up" to keep the music interesting. There are a few tracks on this tape that I am sure you will recognize as very recent "instant classics." Now, I don't want to diss SF... but this is just an observation... it seems that music in SF is just a little too "all over the place"... CL's Odyssey has a deffinate continuity in the tracks... they all seem to be of a particular style... a style that I, personally, find ideal. *** Blantant Promotion *** this 90 minute tape is availalble by mail from Ken of Pure Acid Mixtapes (LA) for 12 dollars. *** End Blantant Promotion *** -troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 09:48:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA10091; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:48:38 -0800 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA10045; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:48:29 -0800 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA26666; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:48:11 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:48:09 -0800 (PST) To: Fred Heutte cc: Fred Heutte , Nancy , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: <9604042320.ZM26212@well> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Fred Heutte wrote: > But that is no excuse for this kind of thing: "If you have a standard > keyboard, it contains the "D" key. Use it." > > One of the great things about sf-raves is that participants here have > almost uniformly avoided the temptation to indulge in classic net.flaming= > > like this. I choose to assume this was done in error in the heat of > response, just as my mistake was. = Phred, you are absolutely 100% correct. My apologies for flameage. One word: Respect. I have my own views and opinions. Others have their own. I respect anyones right to say that I am wrong, way-off base etc. I do my best to keep an open mind when presented with *facts* that contradict the basis of my opinions, and I am quite willing and prepared to discuss those issues privately and publicly. What this "discussion" has been about for quite some time is personal experiences and perceptions. No one can invalidate anothers experience. No one can say "You only thought you were having a good time" or any other such nonsense, just as no one can tell me "It was worth your money, even if you don't think it was." I have been noticing a very common trend here lately and to paraphrase this is it: "These are my opinions, now would you shut up about the whole thing?" Where does this leave us? Is any understanding created out of someone saying "these are my views, but I don't want to talk any further about them." I find it disturbing. It's like those one-side arguments with your parents: Kid: "Why?" Parent: "Because I said so, now go to your room, I don't want to talk about it anymore!" In my estimation at this point that person has closed their mind. The really don't care about understanding where the other party is coming from, they just want to play parent(per the illustration above). I have no desire to do that. If someone gets fired up about something I say, or the reverse happens, and a discussion ensues about it, GOOD. Know why? Because they care about something deeply enough to express their feelings. Because they give a damn. To me this can form an important basis of understanding between myself and others of differing opinions. I want to know what people think, how people thing, and why they think the things they do. All that I would ever ask someone is that if you see something that you feel strongly enough to post about, try to keep an open mind, and please at least be willing to discuss your opinions if you are going to give them. The thing that seems to be forgotten sometimes(I find myself guilty too) is that there are thinking, caring people behind those keyboards, and they have opinions too. > I don't mind a good tough verbal joust over these issues, but what bother= > s > me, quite frankly, is that we've been over all this ground about and WITH= > > Martin before. I've put down my thoughts on it, and that's that from > my point of view. = > 95% of my comments were made in a generic fashion, and I make them applicable to anyone charging $25 for a party. I will make a specific statement however, and this goes back to my original problem with the prices being charged: When everyone around (with very few exceptions) seems to be maintaining the price of $20 for their massives, why are the prices going up for parties put on by one promoter? Is it because costs are indeed going up, and eveyone else is just absorbing those costs, or is it that the parties have a good rep, and the market will bear it? Phred, I totally respect your experience. If you are not interested in the discussion, I respect that too. In turn, I ask you to respect my right to discuss my views with others in this public form, without asking for everyones silence on the matter. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 09:51:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA10457; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:51:17 -0800 Received: from ccnet.ccnet.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA10448; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:51:14 -0800 Received: from inanna.ccnet.com (h97-116.ccnet.com [192.215.97.116]) by ccnet.ccnet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA07380; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:39:50 -0800 Message-ID: <31655C2C.4677@ccnet.com> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 09:45:16 -0800 From: Diana Greer Organization: The Lab X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dirceu Pereira CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: chill-out room recommendations References: <199604050750.EAA17107@fama.ibase.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Dirceu Pereira wrote: > > I am trying to put up a chill-out party. Just need to get some new ideas and recommendations about what you can do to make a place like a junked warehouse into > > Any suggestions??? expereiences??? > > thanks :) Floor cushions and couches! Blankets? Near-by water scorce, positive art. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 09:52:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA10684; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:52:51 -0800 Received: from cti02.citenet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA10667; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:52:38 -0800 Received: from [206.123.34.147] (g34-147.citenet.net) by cti02.citenet.net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28197; Fri, 5 Apr 96 12:51:44 EST X-Sender: ecto@citenet.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 13:00:05 -0500 To: "Bruce E." From: ecto@citenet.net (ecto) Subject: Re: The Rave Scene -- Instant Replay of the '60's (fwd) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 4:28 PM 4/4/96, Bruce E. wrote: >1. It appears that the Rave scene is beginning to resemble the Rock scene of >the 60's. Big promoters with money interests are becoming the rule in rave >promotions, with only a few "special" parties for insiders lacking the >veneer of commercialism. This was true of the 60's. Rock started out as >"underground" and became "establishment." This is just the way things are. The situationists c. 1960's paris called this 'recuperation'. This is how culture grows and complexifies: you have an establishment, which creates an underground which is incorporated into the esblishment which then creates another underground. Rock, punk and rave are all like this (though i don't think that rave culture is COMPLETELY recuperated yet). This whole process is just a 'natural' part of how a chaotic system like culture evolves: 'noise' is created to disrupt the current order which is then reincorporated to form a new 'order'. That's how humans learn, that's how cultures devolop. By thinking that there is going to be some underground forever and ever in the same way is pretty silly. Rave is going to be recuperated, but the new order will create another 'underground'. You must know this, if you were a hippy in the sixties and have ended up in this 'new' rave underground, right? I'm not so much interested in 'protecting' rave culture from recuperation, but appreciating ALL the things that it offers that the 'establishment' doesn't, with the knowledge that i'll be involved in a DIFFERENT but similar subculture in the future. I think that if more hippies had been able to envision raving then they would have had an easier time letting go of recuperated parts of their culture. Then again, this is only my opinion and i'm only a 23 year old dork who wasn't even a glimmer in my dad's eye in 1969 ;) >2. The Levi Web site is an example of how raves can be exploited for large >corporate interests. Again, this parallels the 'sixties. I feel sad that >SFRaves own Brian B. is involved in this obvious exploitation. I think that, again, one has to redefine one's vision of what 'coroporate' is. A corporation in 1996 is very different from a corporation in 1966. I think that there are actually money-making businesses that seek to co-evolve with culture and provide just as much as they take from their clients, and i see examples of this everywhere. I also see corporations as being more and more shrewd in terms of marketing, to the point where the product that is to be sold is not so much a 'thing' as an idea and an image. I took a look at this web-site. Ok, so they want to sell jeans. So they want to use PLUR to do it. Do the means justify the end? As long as we're aware that this is a business interested in making money we can be aware of the 'ethics' of the situation but, honestly, i think the web site is pretty interesting. I don't have a problem with it in the least. If one stray net-surfer searching for a pair of jeans learns more about the rave scene and PLUR and the information presented is well-balanced and accurate, than i think it's GREAT. Yeah, it's a marketing device, but then again so is the degradation of women :(. All things are relative. >Suffice to say, as an elder of your tribe, with my roots in the >'Sixties, I say -- young man or young woman --it's time for something new. >The rave scene needs a transfusion or perhaps it's time to look around for a >new form to express your feelings of need for community and for the >experience of transformation. I'm completely in agreement with this but i would also caution against throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Understand what is working about rave culture, what you love about it, why you brought yourself to it, and use that as the foundation for something new. Don't fear the future. :) peace, brad =====================/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\================== \|/ ectographics: print and online design --O-- ecto@citenet.net >> ecto@magnet.ca >> /|\ http://www.magnet.ca/~ecto /---\ /-----\"second star on the right, straight on til morning" - peter pan /_______\-========\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/================= From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 09:54:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA10962; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:54:05 -0800 Received: from worm.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA10953; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:54:01 -0800 Received: (from moonpup@localhost) by worm.hooked.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA22657; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:53:52 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:53:52 -0800 From: Milton Cecil Message-Id: <199604051753.JAA22657@worm.hooked.net> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: martin & gathering Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I have to agree 100% with Phred.........5,000 people parties are not my cup of tea........but you can't argue with success....he get's 5,000 each time....that say's something for his ability to give a decent product......over & over.........now I take my hat off to ANYONE who can oull off even a small vibe party.......It is no cup of tea.....that's why I DJ and don't promote (gee, I should think about that !!!).......I say more power to martin for pulling off the parties........I don't neccesarily agree with some of the politics, of many promoters, but so what, I'm entitled to my opinion, and If I think I can do better, I should shut-up and just do it. If gathering or $25.00 is to much to pay, just look around, there are some good parties going on.........It's about how connected you are, not in the COOL sense of the word, but in the Vibe sense.........I have raved for 4 years in the bay area and I rarely go to large events.......(as a DJ or as a attendee) I'm sorry I won't be at yet another Gathering, (iv'e only been to one), but I asure you I will be having the time of my life at a smaller killer vibe party.....you see, it was never about the size of a party, it's about a vibe........ .........now I helped in a small way with the famous original Community party held in Richmond.............and while it fell short of being 5,000 people it was one of the best large parties I was ever associated with, the vibe was all about coming together in the name of healing and helping a fallen brother. So if you enjoy a large gathering, have a good time, and if you don"t find an alternative source of entertainment........I certainly don't go out every single Sat nite to a club or rave...........only when I find a type of party that turns me on...... like.....FnF, new moon, full moon, raindance, sometimes wicked, sometimes roots, sunset, etc... etc... etc... I hope where-ever you go Sat, and whatever you do,................... do it well.......enjoy the moment............and spread good vibes........moonpup From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 09:58:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA11357; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:58:58 -0800 Received: from mckinley.mckinley.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA11350; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:58:56 -0800 Received: from [206.214.202.148] by mckinley.mckinley.com via SMTP (8.6.13/940406.SGI.AUTO) id JAA20465; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:54:14 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 09:54:14 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 To: dpsrosa@ax.ibase.org.br (Dirceu Pereira) From: csaldana@mckinley.com (Carol Saldana) Subject: Re: chill-out room recommendations Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I also think that along with good lighting that Reagan suggested, I'd include visuals (3-D imaging/motion) for sight and incense for a mmmmm pleasurable scent experience. >I am trying to put up a chill-out party. Just need to get some new ideas >and recommendations about what you can do to make a place like a junked >warehouse into some clean and confortable place, where people can, at >least, feel good and catch a good vibe. > >Any suggestions??? expereiences??? > >thanks :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 10:05:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA11953; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:05:20 -0800 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA11938; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:05:13 -0800 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA27293; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:05:11 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:05:10 -0800 (PST) To: Geoff White cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: <199604042343.PAA06431@precipice.v-site.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Geoff White wrote: > > > >Geoff you paint this wonderful picture. Please, enlighten us all, what > >infrastructure is being built? > > > > Black Adder > > > > There are many "ravers" who are running businesses of there own, some are > self employeed, some are fortunate enough to be able to employ others. > Many have realized thru the medium of throwing/going to parties that, like > the Greatful Dead Scene, as we get older we can choose to work for "The Man" > or we can try to build some companies, organizations and institutions that can > employ, empower and nurture the principles, families and lifestyle > that we have come to believe in. some of these companies are: > *SNIP* Nice list Geoff, thanks for taking the time to give it. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 10:10:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA12436; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:10:06 -0800 Received: from worm.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA12419; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:10:02 -0800 Received: (from moonpup@localhost) by worm.hooked.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA23569; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:10:02 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:10:02 -0800 From: Milton Cecil Message-Id: <199604051810.KAA23569@worm.hooked.net> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: opinions are just that !! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I feel the need to say at this juncture (as I usually feel the need), to explain to some people that when you post an opinion here, (especially with a, lets say, non -positive message), you are puttin yourself in a position to be flamed. I know for I have fallen prey to my own opinions, several time over, in my short time here on SFR. I will add how-ever that at least some people are not afraid to voice their opinions, and stand up in front of you all, at the risk of being flamed. I respect anyones right to feel that their point is worth bringing up, and while I don't agree with everyone's point of view, I do feel more people should stand by there convictions..........it's too easy to sit back, and be anonymous.........bravo to all the posters, and boo to all you lurkers......I know you have opinions too.....let's hear them.......what are you afraid of ? that's all......moonpup From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 10:51:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA16199; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:51:28 -0800 Received: from ea.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA16179; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:51:18 -0800 Received: from pcsmtp2.ea.com (eahqpo01.ea.com [159.153.94.37]) by ea.com (8.6.6.Beta9/8.6.6.Beta9) with SMTP id KAA03923; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 10:50:48 -0800 Received: by pcsmtp2.ea.com with Microsoft Mail id <31656BE3@pcsmtp2.ea.com>; Fri, 05 Apr 96 10:52:19 PST From: "Davis, Bryan" To: sfraves-owner , sfraves Subject: RE: opinions are just that !! Date: Fri, 05 Apr 96 10:50:00 PST Message-ID: <31656BE3@pcsmtp2.ea.com> Encoding: 39 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Moonpup, Why do you think people are afraid cuz they dont post? I dont post hardly ever, i lurk most of the time...but for the most part, if i see a post that i dont agree with, i just delete it...i dont waste my time writing 10 paragraphs stating how i see it different...... Bryan ---------- From: sfraves-owner[SMTP:sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com] Sent: Friday, April 05, 1996 10:10 AM To: sfraves Subject: opinions are just that !! I feel the need to say at this juncture (as I usually feel the need), to explain to some people that when you post an opinion here, (especially with a, lets say, non -positive message), you are puttin yourself in a position to be flamed. I know for I have fallen prey to my own opinions, several time over, in my short time here on SFR. I will add how-ever that at least some people are not afraid to voice their opinions, and stand up in front of you all, at the risk of being flamed. I respect anyones right to feel that their point is worth bringing up, and while I don't agree with everyone's point of view, I do feel more people should stand by there convictions..........it's too easy to sit back, and be anonymous.........bravo to all the posters, and boo to all you lurkers......I know you have opinions too.....let's hear them.......what are you afraid of ? that's all......moonpup From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 11:00:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA17106; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:00:23 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA17097; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:00:20 -0800 X-Address: Insignia Solutions Inc., 2200 Lawson Lane, Santa Clara, CA.95054 X-Telephone: +1 408 327 6000 X-Fax: +1 408 327 6105 Message-Id: <1.5.4b13.32.19960405173433.0067c80c@email.org> X-Sender: knucklehead@email.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4b13 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 09:34:33 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Tim (Knucklehead)" Subject: Mixer question ReSent-Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:00:17 -0800 (PST) ReSent-From: Brian Behlendorf ReSent-To: sfraves@hyperreal.com ReSent-Message-ID: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Has anyone ever used a Gemini PMX-15a mixer or have comments about it? I can pick up a new one for $100. And thought I'd ask. Also, are you able to listen to the two channels at the same time. Hear both records at the same time in the headphones. That way if you can't hear it to will in the monitor you can at least hear them both through the headphones before you actually mix. I forget what it's called, but I'm sure some of you know what I'm talking about. Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 11:11:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA18339; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:11:43 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA18330; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:11:40 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:11:39 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Behlendorf To: "Eric P. Peterson" cc: blkadder@value.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Eric P. Peterson wrote: > Way to go, Adder! Why don't we spend more bandwidth on discussion, and > less on bitching and mud-slinging. That's not what PLUR is all about. At > the least, some of us can agree to disagree and respect each other for it. > Optimistic Yes? Actually, vigorous debate is a good indication of a strong democracy. I wish I could find the quote where one of our forefathers said that a little revolution is actually very healthy - questioning authority and demanding a change to the status quo are as american as mom and apple pie. Similarly, I think a community which constantly questions the assumptions it is asked to live with is a very healthy community - even if the issues have been gone around before. So, I have no problem with people asking about the economics of the bigger parties or other issues that crop up every now and then - I do have a problem if people say "it's been discussed before, end of discussion". That's no excuse, of course, for not exploring history... :) Brian From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 11:16:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA18772; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:16:09 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA18765; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:16:04 -0800 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA29356 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:16:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kirstenc@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) id LAA17591; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:12:23 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:12:21 -0800 (PST) From: KaySEE Subject: Re: Ecstasy Rumor and Fact To: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, TALILLA SCHUSTER wrote: > Just a little note on seratonin levels after taking e: not to condone > taking medicine that is not prescribed to you, but my friend in NYC > sends some of her Prozac for me to take after taking e. Since Prozac does > the opposite of e (it increases seratonin levels), taking *one* afterwards > seems to make me feel better. This has absolutely NO scientific basis, > that I know of, but it helps ME recover. Again, I'm not condoning or > advertising this, but it sort of makes sense. > If you take Prozac regularly and, I think, MAO-inhibitors (other types of anti-depressants), e will not work. Also, in scientific studies on both rats and primates, the number of serotonin receptors greatly diminishes with heavy MDMA usage. Most are regenerated within a year, but there is still an overall loss. So far they don't know what this means in regards to humans or the functional results i.e. possible long-term depression. --kc From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 11:20:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA19203; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:20:24 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA19191; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:20:17 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA04805 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:20:12 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA07844; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:20:11 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA06967; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:20:08 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:21:58 -0800 To: Brian Behlendorf From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: The Gathering Spam Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Actually, vigorous debate is a good indication of a strong democracy. I >wish I could find the quote where one of our forefathers said that a >little revolution is actually very healthy - questioning authority and >demanding a change to the status quo are as american as mom and apple >pie. Similarly, I think a community which constantly questions the >assumptions it is asked to live with is a very healthy community - even >if the issues have been gone around before. So, I have no problem with >people asking about the economics of the bigger parties or other issues >that crop up every now and then - I do have a problem if people say "it's >been discussed before, end of discussion". That's no excuse, of course, >for not exploring history... :) > > Brian We are in complete agreement, Brian! No one is born with any freedoms; society gives them and takes them away. We are fortunate to live in a society that gives more freedoms than any other. Let's make the most of it! Peace, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 11:35:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA20398; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:35:04 -0800 Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA20387; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:35:00 -0800 Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.0); Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:39:04 +0000 X-Sender: ambient@netcom23.netcom.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:37:42 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: ambient@netcom.com (Joe Rice) Subject: Re: Calling for Party Reviews! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 6:16 PM 4/4/96, Nancy wrote: >There's been a MAD, a Come-Unity and a Full Moon since last I saw a review. >Let's hear about it if you went!! I know I get a vicarious thrill out of >the reviews, makes me almost feel like I was there -- (this is how I'm >planning to save $25 on the Gathering! :P). I probably shouldn't talk about Mad since I'm obviously biased, but I was really happy with it this week. A great crowd and some nice tunes from Alex, Takeshi, and Jon Santos. Checked out Body Electro on Wednesday to see Freaky Chakra play - he played some excellent downtempo tracks. Ran into Miguel from Single Cell Orchestra there as well and was lucky enough to get to hear some new stuff he's working on. I don't know when it'll be out, but he just keeps getting better and better. Went to ComeUnity after that - just when I though I'd met at least half of all ravers in SF I go to a club and see maybe one person I know. Maybe it's 'cause it wasn't really a raver crowd - you could tell it was spring break. I arrived at about 2:30 and it was still packed, but had a decent vibe and 1015 has enough nooks to chill in when the main floor gets too hot. Heard the full moon went off nicely on Wed. night as well. --- So is someone archiving all these Gathering posts so they can be automatically resent to the list after each of Martin's parties to save time? =) Joe (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 11:36:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA20532; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:36:49 -0800 Received: from well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA20526; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:36:46 -0800 Received: (from phred@localhost) by well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA18084; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:36:16 -0800 From: "Fred Heutte" Message-Id: <9604051136.ZM18081@well> Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:36:14 -0800 In-Reply-To: blkadder@value.net "Re: The Gathering Scam" (Apr 5, 10:05am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10oct95) To: blkadder@value.net, Geoff White Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I also want to thank Black Adder who has been very gracious in email explaining his position a bit more. It was not my intention to shout him down or cut off the discussion; I still feel we've gone over all this quite a lot, but the list is here for everyone to express their concerns and insights. Just wanna make that clear. phred From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 11:43:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA21135; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:43:51 -0800 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA21122; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:43:47 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 11:43:46 -0800 (PST) From: Andy Thomas To: blkadder@value.net cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Apr 1996 blkadder@value.net wrote: > "These are my opinions, now would you shut up about the whole thing?" > > Where does this leave us? Is any understanding created out of someone > saying "these are my views, but I don't want to talk any further about them." > I find it disturbing. It's like those one-side arguments with your parents: > > Kid: "Why?" > > Parent: "Because I said so, now go to your room, I don't want to talk > about it anymore!" I don't think that analogy is correct. To paraphrase: A: "No party should cost $20/25". B: "Most parties shouldn't cost that much, but massives, when done correctly (ie The Gathering) *do* cost that much, as Martin has previously shown on this list. Now personally, I don't blame Martin for not responding to your requests for a cost breakdown for the last Gathering, he's already done it before (how many big promoters would be willing to do that?). It basically comes down to whether or not *you* feel the parties are worth it. If not, *don't go*, you've got plent of other options. That's it. Lots of do people think his parties are worth it and know that he isn't in it for the money, and he has the rep. to show for it. There are other promoters much more deserving of that kind of criticism. Anyhow, you may feel this is a topic worthy of discussion but some of us have already seen this hashed out like 3 or 4 times now and it's getting old hearing the same complaints from the same people. Spend a couple hours digging through the archives, there's some great stuff in there... Just to clarify, this isn't intended to be a flame, just my take on this... respectfully, Andy From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 12:06:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA23045; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:06:28 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA23036; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:06:21 -0800 Received: from [128.32.160.40] (hmfmac2.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.160.40]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA27841 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:06:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:05:04 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) Subject: Re: The Gathering "Scam" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Well, I apologize to Black Adder, because in the heat of ranting >I forgot that he didn't start "The Gathering Scam" thread. _I_ am the one who entitled my post the Gathering "Scam." And that was meant to be provocative - _is_ it a scam?! Is $25 appropriate? _Is_ it allright to make money off of the scene? _Do_ we as ravers have the right to actively contribute to the making of parties, or just passively either go or not go? I used "scam" because I have felt CHEATED by these prices. I wanted to raise the issue to see what the community thinks. Obviously many of you feel these prices are completely justified. I still find it excessive. And I would still like to see more thought on the underlying issues involved. >I don't mind a good tough verbal joust over these issues, Discussion does not need to be "jousting," people! It is not a competition, a duel, a fight to the death. It is a way for us to express our opinions to enlighten each other, and if we feel similarly, take action together! It is POSITIVE and only HELPS OUR SCENE!!! Everyone has a voice and deserves to be listened to - let's not have this degenerate to personal attacks!! but what bothers >me, quite frankly, is that we've been over all this ground about and WITH >Martin before. I've put down my thoughts on it, and that's that from >my point of view. But many of us are new and have not engaged in this discussion yet. I'm sure EVERYTHING we talk about has been gone over ten times since the inception of this list YEARS AGO. But for the ones engaging in dialogue RIGHT NOW, it is relevant! Wishing all of you love and continued free expression, Nancy > >phred > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 12:23:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA25084; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:23:04 -0800 Received: from ns.mauswerks.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA25066; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:22:59 -0800 Received: from [17.127.18.198] ([17.127.18.198]) by ns.mauswerks.com (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA01634; Sat, 30 Mar 1996 19:23:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199603310323.TAA01634@ns.mauswerks.com> Subject: RE: opinions are just that !! Date: Fri, 5 Apr 96 12:22:43 -0800 From: Amy Felix To: "Davis, Bryan" , "sfraves" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk People- I must agree with this one. When I re-subscribed, I promised myself I would not post unless I had something REALLY important to say. So far it just hasn't been happening, so sue me. I am not afraid of this list or anyone on it. After reading Deepak Chopra's book: The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success, I learned some things about myself and my own ego. Now I think very carefully about passing judgments on others, whether this comes in the form of constructive criticism, scene-building or opinions. Cut the lurkers some slack. Mebbe they just wanna have fun! If they don't feel the need to say anything, who cares. Maybe they like being quiet. -Amy >Moonpup, > Why do you think people are afraid cuz they dont post? I dont >post hardly ever, i lurk most of the time...but for the most part, if i >see a post that i dont agree with, i just delete it...i dont waste my >time writing 10 paragraphs stating how i see it different...... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 12:56:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA27931; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:56:51 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA27916; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:56:47 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA09233 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:56:43 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA14854; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:56:43 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA25173; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:56:44 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:58:23 -0800 To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: The Gathering "Scam" Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >_I_ am the one who entitled my post the Gathering "Scam." And that was >meant to be provocative - _is_ it a scam?! Is $25 appropriate? _Is_ it >allright to make money off of the scene? _Do_ we as ravers have the right >to actively contribute to the making of parties, or just passively either >go or not go? > >I used "scam" because I have felt CHEATED by these prices. I wanted to >raise the issue to see what the community thinks. Obviously many of you >feel these prices are completely justified. I still find it excessive. And >I would still like to see more thought on the underlying issues involved. > Dear Nancy, and all: Does anyone on this list ever go to concerts? Tix are usually in the $20-$30 range, and hordes of people think very little of paying that much to see a show. Personally, I've gotten MUCH more out of the Gatherings and some other "massives" than I've gotten at any concert except for Dead shows. I've never felt cheated, though, after attending a concert, no matter how much money I spent (maybe I've been lucky). It seems to me that, when you're weighing the potential of a party against the price of admission, you need to ask yourself what you think you should be getting for your money, especially since everyone has a slightly different point of view. Can you compensate for a feeling of being cheated while at an event by doing what you can to enhance your enjoyment, thereby succeeding at getting your money's worth in spite of the event's shortcomings? Maybe we can try to be aware, while at a party, of whether it appears that everyone is enjoying themselves. As a caring community, I think it makes sense that we should try to help each other out in that respect. On the other hand, you can throw up your hands and say "This particular party doesn't give me pure chewing satisfaction, not enough bang for my buck, so I'm through with it" and there's no harm done. Or, maybe you can see about becoming involved in putting on one of these events, and get a better picture of what goes on and why it costs what it does, then decide for yourself if the price is justifiable. OK, enough for now. PEACE! - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 12:58:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA28056; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:58:14 -0800 Received: from gw3.pacbell.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA28050; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:58:11 -0800 Received: from srv.PacBell.COM (mother.srv.PacBell.COM) by gw3.pacbell.com (5.x/PacBell-10/18/95) id AA07906; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:57:32 -0800 Received: from pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM by srv.PacBell.COM (4.1/Mother-7/26/95) id AA07935; Fri, 5 Apr 96 12:57:31 PST Received: by pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12486; Fri, 5 Apr 96 12:57:29 PST From: lxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel) Message-Id: <9604052057.AA12486@pbssi.srv.PacBell.COM> Subject: Tim Leary Update (fwd) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 5 Apr 96 12:57:28 PST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I know that there are mixed opinions concerning the life of Mr. Leary, yet his influence on Psychedelic culture (and therefore indirectly on rave culture) is indeniable. This update was sent out today by an acquaintance of mine. I thought some of the people here would be interested - Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------- speaking of Good Friday and Timothy Leary... perhaps a miracle is underway. when I saw Tim the last week of february i thought it would be the last time. by his own quality of life scoreboard he was in the last inning. since he doesn't want to be miserable or a burden, it looked like he would deanimate soon. by early march he could not walk, or even stand. from open sores on his belly and ankles leaked what we thought was the last of his life. he told a friend he'd leave in march. the cryogenic tank to store his frozen body was set up in what was his dining area. (i call it the meat department). looks like a high tech tomb, momentos and playthings scattered about. but he's also said, regarding cyogenics, "I'm just keeping my options open and at the time of my death I may decide to fuck this freezer business and have them stick me in the blender." at a harvard reunion party three weeks ago, confined to a wheel chair, surrounded by loving friends, students, colleagues... a time warp... there was a most beautiful old dying man... still can't describe the energy, the presence of that day... tearful, joyous, numinous... like a deep strong clear ayahuasca or mescaline vibe, similar to when a child is born.... death seemed near. he was existing on psychic force but he told everyone to come back same time next year for st patty's day. he said at one point, with smiling sarcasm, "7 million people I turned on and only 100,000 have come by to thank me..." two weeks ago, watching the academy awards... when his good friend susan sarandon won he laboriously stood from his wheelchair and tried to dance... this past saturday night I arrived at 1:30AM and was shocked at what I saw. he looked five years younger. strangely he was alone, but as usual wide awake at that hour. "Look at this"... he stood up from his bed, easily, and patted himself robustly on his side where he was too sore to touch the week before. took a long drag from the NO2 tank, then he DID dance. "Well I WAS sick," he said, "Now I'm only afraid people will think I'm a fraud." not to indulge denial but he is stronger, mentally and physically, and more joyful than he was five weeks ago... he is having a ball.... is dmt a rejuvenator? early saturday night he was out wheelchairing down sunset blvd sunday afternoon he was racing wheechairs around the house with former Dodger great Johnny Roseboro.... remember him on good friday, he could go at any moment, but he's not dead yet.... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 13:33:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA01451; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 13:33:47 -0800 Received: from vanbc.wimsey.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA01430; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 13:33:32 -0800 Received: by vanbc.wimsey.com (Smail-3.1.29.1 #32) id m0u5J7e-00011BC; Fri, 5 Apr 96 13:32 PST Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 13:32:46 -0800 (PST) From: Karen Hardie To: nw-raves@hyperreal.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: NON RAVE but kinda scary! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I just found out that someone is filming a TV MOVIE of The Shining for cable. And Stephen King is overseeing the production. *shudder* if it's as bad as The Tommyknockers was i'm going to cry .... k From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 13:43:37 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA02408; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 13:43:37 -0800 Received: from mail1.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA02393; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 13:43:29 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA13395; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 13:42:52 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA28135; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 13:38:52 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 13:38:52 -0800 Message-Id: <199604052138.NAA28135@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: Calling for Party Reviews! Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >There's been a MAD, a Come-Unity and a Full Moon since last I saw a review. >Let's hear about it if you went!! I know I get a vicarious thrill out of >the reviews, makes me almost feel like I was there -- (this is how I'm >planning to save $25 on the Gathering! :P). Well, here's my $.02 ($.35 with inflation): ComeUnity: It started out with some really...well...bad music. I just don't really care for a lot of vocals and disco beat. I danced a little, but it just wasn't happening. That about sums up the first 45 minutes. Then the disco melted in the increasing heat and the BPM accelerated. And the crowd got funkier and funkier. It got bigger and bigger too, but it never got so bad that I couldn't find a place to stomp. By 1am, the music was HOT! I didn't go check the DJ, so could someone help me out: Who was spinning at 1:30am and at 3am? Whoever it was, was ON! Also, dancing on the balcony between the mac daddy bar and the patio, across from the stage, looking up at the skylights: the reflection of the lights across the heads of the crowd looked like magic lightning underneath the waves of the ocean. That's the only way I know how to describe it. It was BEAUTIFUL. I'll never forget it. Negatives: The mac daddy room with the couches and mirrors wasn't open (pout) and the basement was playing this horrible music at eardrum shattering levels. That wasn't a chill space, it was a torture chamber. The only cool part was the acid visuals. During an event like ComeUnity, the booths need to go and the bean bags need to come out. The music needs to be more like the stuff they played at Chrysalis. And it needs to be SOOTHING, not PAINFUL. I went back upstairs and grabbed a napkin, stuffed it in my ears, and went back down to join my crew. In the minute that it took me to do that, they had already decided not to spend anymore time there, and we went out on the patio to chill. And *chill* we did. It was freezing, but it was the only place to really relax. So it was either dance or die. Hm. :( One other negative: The guy that spins the glow-stick numchucks - what's with the ego? Does this guy think he's a star or what? I like to take pictures of people at raves. I don't take pictures of people chilling unless they say ok, but when people are dancing I've never had a problem. Especially someone that's so into grabbing attention. But when I went to take his picture he got quite angry and stomped off. Too big a star I guess. Damn us papparazzi! All in all, it was ok, nothing special, but a good time. Have to cut this short, I've got a meeting to go to... S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 14:46:06 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA08382; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:46:06 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA08363; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:45:53 -0800 Received: from [205.134.228.76] (ppp076-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.76]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id OAA10429 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:45:44 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:45:44 -0800 Message-Id: <199604052245.OAA10429@moon.sirius.com> X-Sender: natural@sirius.com (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: natural@sirius.com (Natural) Subject: Jupiter(sorry Non rave related) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Pasedena CA -- In an announcement bound to produce shockwaves around the >world, a government source disclosed a report which states that data from >the Galileo Mission to study the planet Jupiter has lead to the conclusion >that the lower atmosphere of Jupiter is "teaming with life." > >The Galileo spacecraft recently launched a probe directly into the atmosphere >of Jupiter to study such things as atmospheric gasses, weather, and >radiation. The information gathered during the probe's trip will take years >to analyze, but the source states that early data has detected the presence >of organic chemicals and gasses that are the "signature of life." > >Scientists have long speculated that the atmosphere of Jupiter may contain >alien organisms. "The concept is not that shocking when you consider the >many forms of life that habituate the harshest environments on Earth," stated >John Furtheminer, Ph.D. noted exobiologist. "We find anaerobic bacteria deep >in the ice of Antarctica, and tube worms in the crushing depths of the ocean. >While the upper layers of the atmosphere are composed of very cold gasses, >the mid and lower layers are warmer and in fact are much like the eprimordial >soupi of Earth a couple of billion years ago. Many of us have felt that the >probability of life in the lower Jovian atmosphere was quite high." > >The bigger surprise was the revelation that the Galileo probe carried an >onboard camera. NASA never publicly announced that photography was to be a >part of the mission leading to the speculation that part of the mission was >"Classified" due to strong evidence of the possibility that life would be >discovered. > >This information is bound to further feed the criticism by those who believe >that the government has routinely concealed evidence of extraterrestrial life >like the famous Roswell alien specimens rumored to be in storage at the >mysterious Area 51, a classified military facility in Nevada. > >What is Jovian life like? "I think we will see the kind of diversity we see >on Earth," stated Furtheminer. "I would expect everything from microscopic >organisms to great floating membranes that thrive in the windy atmosphere >much like jellyfish floating in the ocean currents." > >The government source could not confirm that pictures of Jovian organisms >actually exist. > >Government Concealing Evidence of Life on Jupiter, Source Says > >Washington DC -- A government source claims that the recent Galileo mission >to Jupiter detected evidence of life in the planet's atmosphere. Data >transmitted back to Earth 60 days ago has led scientists to conclude that >there is significant organic activity in "warm pockets" of the lower >atmosphere. Once this information was disclosed among internal government >agencies, the Galileo mission was immediately "Classified" and all further >release of public information was halted. > >The source says they brought the story directly to America Online "because >the government was likely to clamp down and prevent any major media from >publishing the facts," according to the source. > >Experts have long speculated that the government has been withholding >evidence that extraterrestrial life exists. President Clinton promised >during the 1992 presidential campaign to release any information concerning >evidence of extra terrestrials if elected. However, the issue has been >mysteriously absent from this administration's agenda. ___________________________________________________________________ coming this spring to a vinyl emporium near you nm2002 s c h o o l o f t h o u g h t slot machine....................................now relate.....................................rocket science.............. .....................chemical imbalance.............................drift apart.................................................... bizarre............................................twisted.................. ..................sonic origami......................... ........................amplified expanses.........................integrated discord...................................... cultured samples....................homogenized sound......................random resonance.......... ..........................concentrate hard........................................there is always room for thought. n a t u r a l m u s i c 1 3 8 8 h a i g h t s t a r e a s e v e n s a n f r a n c i s c o c a 9 4 1 1 7 t 4 1 5 6 2 6 7 7 0 7 f 4 1 5 6 2 1 6 9 1 3 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 14:47:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA08478; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:47:55 -0800 Received: from comp.uark.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA08473; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:47:50 -0800 Received: (from sflemin@localhost) by comp.uark.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA11506; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:47:41 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:47:40 -0600 (CST) From: "Sarah A. Fleming" To: Matt Kodama cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: when the grass was greener ... In-Reply-To: <199604051702.JAA17988@elaine15.Stanford.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Matt Kodama wrote: > > > after reading this latest thread about 'senior ravers' informing me that the > scene is completely sold-out, commercialized, and not hardly as good as it > used to be, i'm reminded of why i decided to started using my delete key so > freely on sfraves mail. from time to time somebody seems to feel the > need to post some comments to the effect that sfraves is just a big bunch > of cyber-whiners - and by and large, i think that's bunk. i actually > appreciate hearing about parties that bit as well as parties that were > incredible, since apparently they can't all be wonderful and given that i > would much rather only be at the parties i'll enjoy! (imagine that ...) > > but it's these 'grass was greener' postings that really are a downer - > what's the point? if you were there, then you _already_ know it used to > be better - if you weren't, then reading the message is only a > bring-down. wouldn't it be more productive to make suggestions aimed at > improving the current scene, or developing alternatives, or whatever, > instead of fixating on nostalgia? save it for the couch, thanks much. > > or perhaps the grass really wasn't much greener, and certain people need > to start having a little more fun these days? an interesting possibility. > > i so agree! i am also a "lurker" and i find sfraves to be of great interest. and though i do agree that everyone has the right to state their own opinion, i feel that the scene is in no way"sold out, unless we choose to make it that way. u create your own reality. does this make sense to anyone? dont fret! enjoy your parties--at least u have them! some of us in these nether regions aren't so fortunate (oh, the blissfull joy of the ozarks--and yes, i wear shoes! haha!) well, anyhow, thanx 4 your time --sarah fleming * ALIEN 5 * unity tribe * whoo-pig sooie... sflemin@comp.uark.edu From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 14:49:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA08586; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:49:11 -0800 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA08576; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:49:08 -0800 Received: from [206.15.64.113] (sf-tty27-ppp.well.com [206.15.64.126]) by mh1.well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA08126; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:48:33 -0800 X-Sender: kasey@mail.well.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:51:00 -0800 To: "Ronald Knegtel" From: kasey@well.com (Kathryn Tullis) Subject: Re: UnDrugged Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk What really keeps me up and raving is the buzz I get from dancing! If a party is too crowded, hot, or smoky to dance, then I have to go home early :( On April Fools Day, Ronald Knegtel wrote: > >How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? > > >The Frying Dutchman > > >-- Kathryn C. Tullis "Separation breeds prejudice; prejudice breeds more separation." http://mercury.sfsu.edu/~kathryn -The Reggae Philharmonic Orchestra From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 14:57:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA09311; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:57:12 -0800 Received: from scruz.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA09306; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:57:09 -0800 Received: from [165.227.109.23] by scruz.net (8.7.3/1.34) id OAA12566; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:57:10 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: anarch@mail.scruznet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:59:04 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: anarch@scruznet.com (Anarch) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk blkadder@value.net wrote: >I did not start this thread, but am merely agreeing with the poster >who also felt that $25 was too much. For my two cents, I agree as well. Regardless of how much money anyone was making--if Martin or anyone else can get rich in this business, more power to them--$25 was too much on a strict value-for-money basis, and I think it would be too much for any event. Of course that's an opinion that depends on my own tastes, finances, etc. and if you can have a great time at $25, go for it. (Regarding the Dec Gathering, I was particularly peeved by the water situation, which was inexcusable at any price. The info expressly stated "plenty of free water" and yet I was told several times by staff at the bar and elsewhere that no, there were no taps available. Apparently there actually were, but I never found them and had to wait hours and pay inflated prices for bottled.) anarch@scruznet.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 14:57:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA09352; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:57:25 -0800 Received: from scruz.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA09341; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:57:20 -0800 Received: from [165.227.109.23] by scruz.net (8.7.3/1.34) id OAA12588; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:57:19 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: anarch@mail.scruznet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:59:14 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: anarch@scruznet.com (Anarch) Subject: Re: movie at crysalis (fwd) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk "Wayne D. Correia" wrote: >The footage looked like it was from an event Vince and I went to in late >1994 here in SF (on Illinois Street, near the corner of 3rd and Marin!) >called "Kill Your Television". > >Those people were in the "Crush Cage" killing old TV's, and all the while >the local industrial band "Sharkbait" played along. The Sharkbait Crushfest has been around for quite a while, five years at least, though I haven't encountered it for two or three years. It's always involved a lot of television destruction (other appliances too), but I've never seen people in biohazard suits doing it, just random audience members. Sharkbait, BTW, had an awesome set (sans Crush Cage) at the last Burning Man, for those who were there. They were the extremely loud, noisy, pounding band who started up a bit after the man was torched. anarch@scruznet.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 15:16:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA11325; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 15:16:35 -0800 Received: from mail1.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA11318; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 15:16:32 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA20020 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 15:16:18 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id PAA25891 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 15:12:35 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 15:12:35 -0800 Message-Id: <199604052312.PAA25891@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Nancy wrote: >What I'm worried about with the massives is some promotors (_not_ >necessarily Martin) growing rich off of exploiting our ideals. And part of >that gnawing suspicion is the fact that, like Black Adder, I really haven't >seen _ANYTHING_ at a party that seems to warrant $25 per head (3000 people >= $75,000 gross). Up to a point, I have to agree with Nancy. I have no problem with making a little profit off raves. That's cool; wish I could do the same. For me, the point is, are the parties representative of the theme they claim to portray? Does the party itself really promote love and growth of a peaceful, united community? That's the message on the voice messaging service, but is that the message once you get through the door? Or is it nothing more than a huge room with loud music and disco lighting, with security guards to treat you like gangstas and promoters charging $20+ at the door? If what you expected when you went to the party was something more than that, if what was advertised was something more spiritual, something deeper, and the price was relatively high, I believe you'd be a little irritated if the production values were profit-oriented and the theme was non-existant. For myself, I've got different expectations at a massive than I do at an underground rave. At a massive, I've come to expect a concert-like atmosphere. I don't expect widespread raver attitudes. I expect it to be a party with most people coming to dance, . With raves like Chrysalis, on the other hand, I expect a very different look and feel. With those expectations, I'm rarely disappointed. S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 16:52:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA19362; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:52:59 -0800 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA19357; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:52:55 -0800 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA19724 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:52:55 -0800 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA01603 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:52:59 -0800 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA10936 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:52:52 -0800 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:54:35 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: See ya at Gathering! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk To all who will be at Gathering: if you see me (long ponytail with colored terry hairbands, sfr laminate, maybe a lt green butterfly necklace with a small glittery heart), please say hi! I've got big hugz & smiles for everyone, and more! See ya there :) Peace, and Happy Easter everyone! - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 17:25:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA21537; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:25:01 -0800 Received: from sco.sco.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA21528; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:24:58 -0800 Received: from ns.pdev.sco.com by sco.sco.COM id aa23853; 5 Apr 96 17:21 PST Received: from tehama.pdev.sco.com by grandpa.pdev.sco.com id aa22775; 5 Apr 96 17:21 PST Received: from andrewk.pdev.sco.COM by tehama.sco.com id aa27029; 5 Apr 96 17:17 PST From: Andrew Knutsen To: natural@sirius.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Jupiter(sorry Non rave related) X-Mailer: ScoMail 3.0.Bd MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:18:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <9604051718.aa04900@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > Pasedena CA -- In an announcement bound to produce shockwaves around the > >world, a government source disclosed a report which states that data from > >the Galileo Mission to study the planet Jupiter has lead to the conclusion > >that the lower atmosphere of Jupiter is "teaming with life." Did this story break last Monday, by any chance? ;-) Andrew ----------------------------------------- Andrew Knutsen andrewk@sco.com Santa Cruz Operation (408) 427-7538 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 17:49:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA23818; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:49:08 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA23808; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:49:05 -0800 Received: from [128.32.205.207] (u2w38.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.205.207]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA21478 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:49:08 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:48:39 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: Tribal Funk and weekend plans Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Good day friends and family! > >I just wanted to say I will be attending Tribal Funk this friday. I'm going too... who else? look for me! my photo is on my web page, address below. -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, t-shirts and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- My Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | ...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...| | -> but patience always helps. <- | | | | Michal Migurski | | (510) 664-1026 | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 17:49:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA23843; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:49:12 -0800 Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA23817; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:49:08 -0800 Received: from (peterbf@sfo-ca14-18.ix.netcom.com [205.184.16.82]) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA26819 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:47:04 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:47:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199604060147.RAA26819@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> From: peterbf@ix.netcom.com (peter fogel) Subject: $25.00 party To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk All I know is I've had amazing times at the gatherings I went to. If I couldn't afford $25 every 4 months for parties like these, I think I might put more energy into making more money. Or I would eat a few more ramen noodle dinners to save some money from food. For what I've gotten from the gathering parties I went to, I've felt it well worth the money. If I didn't think so I wouldn't go. I don't think I'd be into these kind of parties every week, but every now and then I love being in an enviroment with the kind of high energy only a big crowd can give. It might not happen all night but when a big crowd clicks and comes together sensing the oneness of the vibe, sharing the love of the music with an incredible sound system, and getting to be a part of that, the joy and extacy I experience from that is priceless. :) peter From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 17:51:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA24025; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:51:31 -0800 Received: from scruz.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA24019; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:51:28 -0800 Received: from [165.227.109.23] by scruz.net (8.7.3/1.34) id RAA24639; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:51:31 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: anarch@mail.scruznet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:53:24 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: anarch@scruznet.com (Anarch) Subject: Re: Calling for Party Reviews! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream)wrote: >ComeUnity: [...] > I didn't go check the DJ, so could someone help me out: Who was >spinning at 1:30am and at 3am? Whoever it was, was ON! It was Jeno, Simon, Garth at approximately 11, 1, 3, I think. It was probably Simon spinning at those peak moments. anarch@scruznet.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 17:53:12 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA24311; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:53:12 -0800 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA24306; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:53:10 -0800 Received: from [128.32.205.207] (u2w38.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.205.207]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA07958 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:53:13 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:52:44 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: old things Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey everyone. I pulled out my old copy of "Rave 'til Dawn" the other day, and I realized how much I miss that kind of music. :) It took me way back to HS, junior year. wow. what a rush. Does anyone ever spin that old stuff anymore or am I living in a dream world? -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, t-shirts and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- My Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | ...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...| | -> but patience always helps. <- | | | | Michal Migurski | | (510) 664-1026 | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 18:02:58 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA25080; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:02:58 -0800 Received: from iceland.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA25064; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:02:40 -0800 Received: from [153.37.82.112] (pool048.Max3.Santa-Clara.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.82.112]) by iceland.it.earthlink.net (8.6.11/8.6.4) with SMTP id SAA19628 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:02:22 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:02:25 +0200 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: exodus@earthlink.net (Austin) Subject: The Gathering party (Dec95) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I think some of you might be missing a very important fact about the last Gathering in Dec. 95. One point of the whole party was to collect toys for the needy at Christmas time. It was blatently stated on the voice mail that the party was 25$ if you DIDN'T BRING A TOY. Other wise it was $20 if you did. I brought 5 toys along w/ my friends and I saw alot of people didn't. I think Martin could easily of charged $20 a person with no toy drive however he was tring to give back to the community. I respect Martin because he works with us and the community to promote the good side of "raving". See ya all there Saturday - got m=EE l=E5menate :) __/-^-\__ <<<>>> `'\-*-/`' _@_/` ~\_e_/~ _G/ O ~\_Q_ ~\_8_| _9_ ~/ }} (*) < =99 /|\ (.)\, [#] ,/ }}\, \\ /| ~\/ \ _=3D=3D=3D___=3D=3D=3D_ // / \ /\/ // \\ / [___________] \\ \ / \ ~~ ~~ ~ ^ ^ ~~ ~ ~ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 18:07:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA25391; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:07:47 -0800 Received: from club.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA25385; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:07:43 -0800 Received: from [157.22.222.111] by club.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1b9); Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:07:12 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:06:33 -0800 To: anarch@scruznet.com (Anarch), sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "Wayne D. Correia" Subject: Re: movie at crysalis (fwd) Cc: knudsocr@ccmail.apldbio.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 2:59 PM 4/5/96, Anarch wrote: >"Wayne D. Correia" wrote: >>The footage looked like it was from an event Vince and I went to in late >>1994 here in SF (on Illinois Street, near the corner of 3rd and Marin!) >>called "Kill Your Television". >> >>Those people were in the "Crush Cage" killing old TV's, and all the while >>the local industrial band "Sharkbait" played along. > >The Sharkbait Crushfest has been around for quite a while, five years at >least, though I haven't encountered it for two or three years. It's always >involved a lot of television destruction (other appliances too), but I've >never seen people in biohazard suits doing it, just random audience >members. > >Sharkbait, BTW, had an awesome set (sans Crush Cage) at the last Burning >Man, for those who were there. They were the extremely loud, noisy, >pounding band who started up a bit after the man was torched. > >anarch@scruznet.com In fact, at the burning man last year, my friend Chris and I were the very first two people to start drumming along with the Sharkbait. At the very begnning of their show I went off to the side where they had stashed all the hundreds of drum sticks an I got one of their road guys to give me to pair. We started drumming on some old metal things in the middle of the audience and a I think that a lot of the people there thought we were part of the band! As we drummed along to SharkBait, the Lingam burned behind us. It was a *total* blast! -w ________________________________________________________________________ Wayne D. Correia wayne@club.net 900 Tennessee Street TEL: +1.415.826.6000 http://www.club.net San Francisco CA 94107-3014 FAX: +1.415.826.6100 http://www.domain.net From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 18:16:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA26014; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:16:13 -0800 Received: from svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA26008; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:16:11 -0800 Received: by svpal.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #4) id m0u5NY2-000D7uC; Fri, 5 Apr 96 18:16 PST Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:16:17 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Leichardt Reply-To: Tom Leichardt Subject: BSP south bay raver read this To: happy ravers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hey ya'll its a beautiful day winding down to a mild nite, my friends and i decided to drag a generator out with some sound and play some toons into the nitetime in an outdoor south bay locale. - its nothing hightly organized, just a few of us want to spin some toons, and i thought i'd invite ya'll to come along. drums and rekkids are welcome, as there is no set schedule for djs, so if ya got em, play em! i'll try to put it on our voicemail: 415.525.5o52 if i get a hold of its owner, otherwise fell free to call me at home: 4o8.275.1546 love and positive energy, tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 18:30:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA26975; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:30:20 -0800 Received: from svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA26970; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:30:17 -0800 Received: by svpal.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #4) id m0u5Nlg-000D9jC; Fri, 5 Apr 96 18:30 PST Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:30:23 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: martin and representing the scene To: happy people Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk i gave up a while ago reading thru the "gathering scam" and related mail as i have over 2oo messages to contend with, but heres an idea anyway... IMHO: i love teh underground scene and thats where most of my energy will continue to go, i think the gathering is a different kind of rave than the undergrounds we so well cherish, but still im many respects it is a *great* party, i think the fact that martin is working so well with teh authorities, and the social establishment, is giving *us* a wonderful immage, wether you support him or not. yeah, we are countercultural and oppose what teh establishment represents, but yet the establishment has the say in wether there is a scene or not - anyone venue hunting is aware of this. martins ability to throw good massives is a positive light on our scene. i hope that makes sence... anyways, enjoy the wonderful weather. positivity, tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 18:51:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA28171; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:51:20 -0800 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA28166; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:51:17 -0800 Received: from 205.149.166.36 (sdinkins.vip.best.com [205.149.166.36]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA25260 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:51:21 -0800 Message-ID: <3164ECEF.883@best.com> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 06:50:39 -0300 From: Fret Croozer X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Wicked Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk What's the scene destined to be like at the Wicked 5th anniversary tomorrow night, Sat.? Is it worth a try? If not, where is happenin? Thanks o'plenty Peace From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 19:00:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA28929; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:00:30 -0800 Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA28919; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:00:26 -0800 Received: from sybex.UUCP by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id SAA07808; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:50:33 -0800 Received: by sybex.com; Fri, 05 Apr 96 16:14:49 Message-ID: <4CBB452F011C0400@sybex.com> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 96 16:14:49 From: Alissa Feinberg To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: CAIO ALL YOU BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE! X-Mailer: UGate [Ver. 1.94] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Unsubbing because I'm gonna be off of work for the next 4 months (on medical / disability leave). I'll miss all of you fine sfravers while I'm out, but don't forget me! I'll be back soon enough! But prolly I'll see ya on the dancefloor sometime soon because 4 months of no work means that I'll have more time to play! Take care and STAY IN TOUCH! Alissa From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 19:10:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA29468; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:10:19 -0800 Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA29461; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:10:15 -0800 From: blkadder@value.net Received: from value.net (blkadder@value.net [204.188.125.5]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA15995; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:17:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA26554; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:08:50 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:08:50 -0800 (PST) To: Andy Thomas cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Andy Thomas wrote: > Now personally, I don't blame Martin for not responding to your requests > for a cost breakdown for the last Gathering, he's already done it before > (how many big promoters would be willing to do that?). It basically comes > down to whether or not *you* feel the parties are worth it. If not, > *don't go*, you've got plent of other options. That's it. Lots of do > people think his parties are worth it and know that he isn't in it for the > money, and he has the rep. to show for it. There are other promoters much > more deserving of that kind of criticism. I stated that my questions regarding the pricing went unanswered. Given that, my opinion remains unchanged. And the matter takes on a new dimension when I see people maintaining the price of their parties, and one person raising them. In that instance I do not think a re-evaluation is out of order. More importantly, many feel that I am striking out against Martin personally. For the umpteenth time, I question *ANYBODY* that throws a party costing this kind of money. I have heard the horror stories of Cool World and that ilk, and question their motives just as much if not more. > Anyhow, you may feel this is a topic worthy of discussion but some of us > have already seen this hashed out like 3 or 4 times now and it's getting > old hearing the same complaints from the same people. Spend a couple > hours digging through the archives, there's some great stuff in there... No, actually the issue has *NEVER* been hashed out. It had faded away, like so many other threads. If it had ever been resolved, it would not be an issue now. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 19:40:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA01018; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:40:54 -0800 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA01013; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:40:51 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA17602 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:40:57 -0800 Received: from kcroy.vip.best.com (kcroy.vip.best.com [206.86.4.246]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA12047 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:37:12 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:37:12 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: kcroy@best.com (kcroy) Subject: gathering Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I am looking for ride for one kc, and one alx, from the city of SF to gathering. I feel this intense urge to see patterson spin, having missed on numerous other occasions. Our ride just flailed. kc|roy 415.864.3647 drop me a line if you are going, and could give one or two of us a ride. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 19:53:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA01867; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:53:07 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA01859; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:53:04 -0800 Received: from [205.134.228.154] (ppp154-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.154]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id TAA28877 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:52:57 -0800 X-Sender: sddpw@pop.sirius.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:49:10 +1200 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: sddpw@sirius.com (Shimako-Dominguez Department of Public Works) Subject: Harvey/Wicked Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Would like to echo Fret Coozer's post about what people are thinking about Wicked tomorrow. I am leaning against. A LOT of people I know want to go hear Harvey, so I expect that little garage is going to be packed to the gills. It's just not a fun "packed" space for me. Why o Why did they not have it at a larger venue? Anyway, as anybody heard of possible venues where Harvey will be spinning beside Wicked. My friends from the UK all say he is super, duper tops and creates awe and wonderment on the dancefloor. thanks... arkay From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 20:16:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA03623; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:16:31 -0800 Received: from elaine43.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA03607; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:16:27 -0800 Received: (from mohack@localhost) by elaine43.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id UAA14359; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:16:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:16:30 -0800 (PST) From: Kristofer Ananda Carrison To: Tom Leichardt cc: happy ravers Subject: Re: BSP south bay raver read this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Melissa and I would love to go if anyone want's to pick our asses up. -stranded at stanford #415-497-1686 On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Tom Leichardt wrote: > hey ya'll its a beautiful day winding down to a mild nite, my friends > and i decided to drag a generator out with some sound and play some toons > into the nitetime in an outdoor south bay locale. - its nothing hightly > organized, just a few of us want to spin some toons, and i thought i'd > invite ya'll to come along. drums and rekkids are welcome, as there is no > set schedule for djs, so if ya got em, play em! > > i'll try to put it on our voicemail: 415.525.5o52 if i get a hold of its > owner, otherwise fell free to call me at home: 4o8.275.1546 > > love and positive energy, > tom > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 20:44:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA05366; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:44:33 -0800 Received: from volcano.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA05360; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:44:30 -0800 Received: (from dlb@localhost) by volcano.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA16344; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:44:33 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:44:27 -0800 (PST) From: "'Dave Bayer'" X-Sender: dlb@volcano.berkeley.edu To: "\\SFRaves\\" Subject: Re: Calling for Party Reviews! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Nancy wrote: > There's been a MAD, a Come-Unity and a Full Moon since last I saw a review. 2 full moon parties... One on either side of it since it was fullest at 4 something or other on wednesday... dave From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 20:52:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA06250; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:52:03 -0800 Received: from SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA06240; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:52:00 -0800 Received: from brianvan ([205.158.224.135]) by SanFrancisco01.POP.InterNex.Net (post.office MTA v1.9.1 ID# 0-11028) with SMTP id AAA20440 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:51:36 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960406045538.006f5098@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> X-Sender: INX-10225b@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 20:55:38 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: "THX1138" Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk there are soldiers on the streets of san francisco, beware From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 20:59:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA07167; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:59:29 -0800 Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA07156; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:59:26 -0800 Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id UAA10567; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:58:37 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:58:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199604060458.UAA10567@precipice.v-site.net> X-Sender: geoffw2@v-site.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: blkadder@value.net From: geoffw@cybertribe.com (Geoff White) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > >I stated that my questions regarding the pricing went unanswered. Given that, >my opinion remains unchanged. And the matter takes on a new dimension >when I see people maintaining the price of their parties, and one person >raising them. In that instance I do not think a re-evaluation is out of >order. > Have you read Martin's breakdown in the archives? As far as parties are concerned it's more or less down to what you learn in Econ 101 "Whatever the Market will bear", In 93 most Toon Towns were $20, the large event's were $25, then at one point everypne refused to pay that much and a few large parties flopped miserably, the price went down. Wicked has only raised the price of their party by $2 over the last 3 years (from $13 to $15) but people still bitch about them :) The prices of parties ebb and flow. >More importantly, many feel that I am striking out against Martin >personally. For the umpteenth time, I question *ANYBODY* that throws a >party costing this kind of money. I have heard the horror stories of Cool >World and that ilk, and question their motives just as much if not more. > > >> Anyhow, you may feel this is a topic worthy of discussion but some of us >> have already seen this hashed out like 3 or 4 times now and it's getting >> old hearing the same complaints from the same people. Spend a couple >> hours digging through the archives, there's some great stuff in there... > >No, actually the issue has *NEVER* been hashed out. It had faded away, >like so many other threads. If it had ever been resolved, it would not be an >issue now. It has been hashed out many times you just seem to have your point of view and want to stick to it, that is fine but don't get upset if people tend to think of you as a whiner because of it. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 21:02:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA07565; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 21:02:51 -0800 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA07560; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 21:02:49 -0800 From: Czefir@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA22296 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 00:02:25 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 00:02:25 -0500 Message-ID: <960406000224_370038635@mail04> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Red Hot Chili Peppers(non-rave) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey all! My friend and I are going to the Chili Pepper concert tommorrow (Saturday) night and I was wondering if anyone on the list was going and if we could meet up with you. Since both of us are rather petite females we would feel safer in a larger group and the group we were going to go with decided they didn't want us around for some reason or another. So, if anyone is going drop me a message. I will check my mail at 2:00 p.m. tomorrow so please reply before that. Thank you. Megan Czefir From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 21:14:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA08490; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 21:14:01 -0800 Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA08478; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 21:13:56 -0800 Received: from soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (ausman@localhost) by soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA26259; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 21:13:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199604060513.VAA26259@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> To: "THX1138" In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 05 Apr 1996 20:55:38 PST." <2.2.32.19960406045538.006f5098@sanfrancisco01.pop.internex.net> cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 21:13:33 -0800 From: James Ausman Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > > there are soldiers on the streets of san francisco, beware Sorry if I am a little dense, but what does that mean, exactly? Peace, Jim Ausman From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 22:03:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA10551; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 22:03:16 -0800 Received: from elaine38.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA10545; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 22:03:14 -0800 Received: (from mohack@localhost) by elaine38.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id WAA13664; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 22:03:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 22:03:12 -0800 (PST) From: Kristofer Ananda Carrison To: Geoff White cc: blkadder@value.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: <199604060458.UAA10567@precipice.v-site.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Geoff White wrote: > > It has been hashed out many times you just seem to have your point of view > and want to stick to it, that is fine but don't get upset if people tend to > think of you as a whiner because of it. > > You know, as a new member on this list, responces like this frighten and discourage me from partaking in discussion. PLUR? R as in respect? blkadder's honest opinion should never be called whinning simply because you don't agree with it. much respect, Krishna From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Fri Apr 5 23:37:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA15470; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 23:37:49 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA15465; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 23:37:46 -0800 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp031-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.31]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id XAA07618 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 23:37:52 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960406073730.006e9d58@moon.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@moon.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 23:37:30 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Unreal 99 Subject: massives and prices. Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk When i attended my only "massive", it was in Toronto, I payed $18 and for my money I got a huge warehouse with two giant rooms, lots of lasers and other lights, a couple of giant screens with sync'ed video, and two live bands - one notably being Orbital. It also seems to me that when I picked up flyers and such, pricing for massives seemed to hover around $20, with many events being around $15. perhaps someone from the t.o. area can confirm some of these prices? anyway, the point being that kick-ass massives can be put on at a decent price for everyone! note: all prices are in canadian $ as well. a canuk dollar equalling about 75 cents US. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 00:57:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id AAA22086; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 00:57:47 -0800 Received: from vanbc.wimsey.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id AAA22079; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 00:57:44 -0800 Received: by vanbc.wimsey.com (Smail-3.1.29.1 #32) id m0u5Toa-00021dC; Sat, 6 Apr 96 00:57 PST Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 00:57:48 -0800 (PST) From: Karen Hardie To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Forwarded mail.... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 05 Apr 1996 21:13:33 -0800 From: James Ausman To: THX1138 Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com > > there are soldiers on the streets of san francisco, beware Sorry if I am a little dense, but what does that mean, exactly? Peace, Jim Ausman yeah, this one puzzled me a little too .... but i enjoy a good mental workout on a Saturday morning :) k From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 01:18:59 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA23363; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 01:18:59 -0800 Received: from ucmsj.vatech.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA23358; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 01:18:56 -0800 From: tim744@silicon.email.net Received: (from mm@localhost) by ucmsj.vatech.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA23987 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 01:19:03 -0800 Received: by silicon.email.net (ucm/3.1) id AA20531.000; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 01:19:03 PST To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 01:19:03 PST Subject: Southbay party ??????? Message-Id: <9604060119.S302606379@silicon.email.net> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Just spent an hour and half driving thru every parking lot up and down Tasman and McCarthy...No Glow sticks, no people, no music, nothing but parking spots. So where is this party? Tim (knucklehead) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 01:59:50 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA26030; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 01:59:50 -0800 Received: from elaine30.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA26025; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 01:59:47 -0800 Received: (from mohack@localhost) by elaine30.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id BAA05868; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 01:59:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 01:59:50 -0800 (PST) From: Kristofer Ananda Carrison To: sfraves Subject: What is house dancing? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk As you may remember from my intro I'm doing a video project on house dancing. Or, at least what I consider to be house dancing. Two months ago if asked to visually describe what house dancing is, I would have shown a select few of the most stylish circle dancers. My fascination with their attitude, ability and creativity is what led me to become enamored with, and want to become a part of, that select group. Thus, I started scruitinizing their dancing, mimicking certain moves and attitude, and eventually got caught up in the whole ego-based performatitive thing that is circle dancing. What I've begun to realize is that circle dancers are only a small group of ravers, and definately not representitive of the raving community as a whole. So, to call them house dancers is wrong, and possibly a disservice to the community. Their dancing is visually beautiful, but hardly better than say, someone who for the first time in their life has mannaged to break away from their insecurities, enter into the music, and dance with abandon. Is this what I should show in my video? I guess I'm wondering what other people think of circle dancers, and, if they can be considered house dancers. Confused about this, Krishna From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 08:09:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA21797; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 08:09:24 -0800 Received: from netcom10.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA21785; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 08:09:21 -0800 Received: from DialupEudora by netcom10.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id IAA22931; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 08:08:57 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 08:08:57 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Kristofer Ananda Carrison From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Cc: blkadder@value.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Geoff White wrote: > >> >> It has been hashed out many times you just seem to have your point of view >> and want to stick to it, that is fine but don't get upset if people tend to >> think of you as a whiner because of it. >> >> >You know, as a new member on this list, responces like this frighten and >discourage me from partaking in discussion. PLUR? R as in respect? >blkadder's honest opinion should never be called whinning simply because >you don't agree with it. > >much respect, >Krishna Correction: Unless Adder or anybody else approaced Martin with their concerns, before posting to the list, they are guilty of lack of recpect, decency, and honor. Whiner is quite appropriate. I have to chime in at this time. I ALSO consider this constant bickering about price whining, because it IS whining. Simply put, if you don't like the price, don't go! If you don't like the promoter because he does not live up to YOUR ideal, don't go! If you don't like it that DJ's make money when they spin, don't go! Don't go if you don't like the fact that for many this is one of the few ways some can make a living. The problem is, this subject is constantly rehashed, right up there with what is good music, what is too fast, what is too slow. To me it is all very, very tedious. I don't know if Adder even knows Martin, or if many on this list know the people they gripe about. I doubt many on this list who make 'observations' or aspouse an 'opinion' have even TRIED to talk to the person face to face. History tells me that in general, they never do. The reasons vary, but all I can say is, if you can't say it to the persons face, then don't say it at all. Commercial, non-commercial (everything in SF is commercial at this point, UG? There hasn't been UG in SF for a couple of years now...)...who cares? If you can go out to the parties you respect, that speaks more than all the "observations" and "opinions" one could ever utter. Martin nor any other promoter should ever feel inclined to show any books just to satisfy the few who would dare request same face to face (Where I am from, if you can't confront someone face to face, you're simply a "punk", as in gutless. Due to being on the left coast , "griper" or "whiner" is appropriate.) I think that one has much greater clout by saying "Hey, Martin's parties cost too much. I have talked with him about it and..." at least you get some points for approaching the person before talking shit about them. That roundabout anonymous e-mail to the world crap, under the guise of "opinion" is disingenuine at best, backstabbing at worse. Is that respect? When you talk about someone, but never make an attempt to talk to them face-to-face? I dunno, I KNOW Martin. I have KNOWN Martin for YEARS. I have had in general, a good time with Martin, and have found Martin to be a nice guy. Oh yes, there are some things I don't agree with, and I talked with him about these issues when it arose. But I ALWAYS took it to his face, like I take it to anybody's face who I disagree with strongly. If it's that important, the person deserves, out of RESPECT, to hash it out with me first, before I go around with my "comclusion" (read opinion). I know Adder didn't call Martin's parties a scam. I know the orignal poster was trying to be provocative. Adder was just adding his two cents, with the same antagonism and vitriol he usually does. To the original poster, try something new. Try RESPECT sometime. You got a problem, take it to the source, then, if you could, let us know the result of your ACTION. Make yourself known to Martin and address your problems with him before you get on the list and talk noise. The information you would then provide will be of some value to all, and would probably be of some value to Martin as well. I also know Martin will address your concerns, even though he may not know you from Adam. Of course, he doesn't have to say or prove anything to anybody. The man has DONE his job! (he has brought more happiness, and more new people in the scene, and made sure so many could pay rent, it's not funny. He has help raise tens of thousands of dollars for a friend, and helped keep this scene alive with music. There's really only one question to ask yourself, namely, "What have *I* done?"). PLUR? Just another slogan for people to use when the tenents of said psuedophilisophy cannot be adhered to even slightly. talk about commercial, even the Levi's site uses this term now. Now THAT'S commercial. (IMHO - A captialist company like Levi's, inherently, cannot subscribe to PLUR, since profit in our system requires the subjugation and exploitation of people. Mostly, people of color). Don't talk about it, just do it! PLUR? Some space debris that landed on this list. Something present in many people's minds, but vacant in their actions. PLUR? A term that reduces the complex problems of a diverse society to a simple minded acronym. Commercial party = Any party you know about. UG = Any party you don't know about. <- rare indeed, epsecially on this list. I do hope we can stop all this mindless bickering about who's real and who's not, who's more commercial and whose not, whose better and whose worse. Whose PLUR and whose not...all of this is just another symptom of a society in complete disconnect. And the epitaph of the human race will read "They could've been contenders." Done, John P.S. Right on GeoffW! To avoid flamage to this list, please spare me your comments of "Hey JSL, wrong side of bed today?" or "What bug crawled up your ass?" ro anything along those lines. That shit is old too, if you're gonna gripe about me, then please come up with something original. To help you do this, out of the concept of R E S P E C T, I offer a synopsis of my morning: 1 - I ALWAYS wake up on my side of the bed. My wife is on the other side. I love my bed, and I love being in bed with my wife. I never wake up angry. On the other side of the bed is a wall. I cannot get up on that side, besides, I don;t want to wake up the Mrs. 2 - I had a physical yesterday, I have no known bugs up my ass. If I *DID* have bugs up my ass, they would surely die. I eat meat on occasion, and the bugs, simply, don't have a chance. I do deal with bugs everyday, but I cannot go into detal. Apple pays me to keep my mouth shut. Their dollar has bought my allegiance to that principle. 3 - Intimidating? Thank you. I do not try, but I like the characteristic usually saved for people like the Great Minister Louis Farrakhan, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, my Grandmother, my Father, Miles Davis, Angela Davis, Bell Hooks, Alice Walker, and any other person of African descent who dares to speak his/her mind. I could only aspire to the aforementioned greatness and will, epsecially in the face of this place, this United States of America. 4 - Angry? Not really, but if I wait two minutes, I'm sure you could drive me to the brink ;). No, I am angry. Angry at the inujustices of life. Angry at the apathy of humanity. Angry that people talk the talk but have a hard time walking the walk (hypocrisy). Angry at slogans and perpetual sloganeering that offer no real solutions. Like 1984 by Orwell this newspeak says a whole lotta nuthin'. Angry that there is a REAL holocaust going on in this country, albeit slowly, against people of color. Angry that some of my white sisters, often times (according to polls at least) do not relate to the struggle that has allowed them to contemplate the struggle. Angry that they have eyes, yet they do not see. Angry that they have ears, but do not hear. Angry that they have mouths, but use them not to solve problems, but to spite those whom they would never utter a single syllable when face to face. Angry at humanity for she squanders her greatest asset, her children. This world needs a high colonic. "I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That is my dream, that is my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor, and surviving." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 08:50:46 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA24356; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 08:50:46 -0800 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA24349; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 08:50:44 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id IAA13203; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 08:50:43 -0800 Received: (inanna@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id IAA13738; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 08:46:55 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 08:46:55 -0800 (PST) From: Melissa Wong To: Kristofer Ananda Carrison cc: sfraves Subject: Re: What is house dancing? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > I guess I'm wondering what other people think of circle > dancers, and, if they can be considered house dancers. Well, IMHO, I would say "Yes" they are "House Dancers"........ but not the only ones :) Everyone in that room/wharehouse/beach (if you must label them as such) are "House Dancers". From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 09:19:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA26240; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:19:43 -0800 Received: from pluto.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA26230; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:19:39 -0800 Received: (from arthurc@localhost) by pluto.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id JAA07185; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:19:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:19:35 -0800 (PST) From: Arthur Chandler X-Sender: arthurc@pluto To: michal migurski cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: old things In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk This could be an interesting nostalgia thread. The first rave/techno music I ever bought was jeno's *Inside the Mind* tape. Then I bought the Quadrophonia CD. In the early days, when I went into a record store looking for techno, it was a scavenger hunt. Most stores had no techno and had never heard of it. The few who had often filed the discs with rap, rock, new age or "etc." When I found a techno CD I bought it, because there were so few choices. Now the racks are bulging. I wish more outfits had www pages with RealAudio so I could taste before I buy. On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, michal migurski wrote: > Hey everyone. > > I pulled out my old copy of "Rave 'til Dawn" the other day, and I realized > how much I miss that kind of music. :) It took me way back to HS, junior > year. wow. what a rush. > > Does anyone ever spin that old stuff anymore or am I living in a dream world? > > -m. > > > 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 > | -flyers, t-shirts and other diversions- | > | for that whole body thirst situation | > | | > | (- My Portfolio! -) | > | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | > | ...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...| > | -> but patience always helps. <- | > | | > | Michal Migurski | > | (510) 664-1026 | > 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 > > > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 09:32:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA27183; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:32:24 -0800 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA27177; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:32:20 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (sf-tty30-ppp.well.com [206.15.64.129]) by mh1.well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA25661 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:31:45 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:31:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199604061731.JAA25661@mh1.well.com> X-Sender: julietsf@mail.well.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: julietsf@well.com (Juliet Diamond) Subject: Re: Mixtape Review! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >hey kids, > >I just got a copy of Christopher Lawerence's (LA) new mixtape "Odyssey" >and I just wanted to share with everyone that this tape rocks!! > >I think there is a deffinate "LA" sound in los angeles. Recent tapes >I have purchased including Scott Free/Andren, and Thomas Michael all have >that acidy sound over funky and progressive beats that I can't get >enough of. > >The best part of "Odyssey" is the incredible synth sounds. This tape does >not rely on 303 for acid sounds. Not that I have anything against 303, >it is just great to hear artists squeezing incredible sounds out of other >synths. There are portions of this tape that are truly awe-inspiring... >I know C.L. was spinning at Dune... and while listening to the tape this >morning I could, through the music, totally project myself onto the desert >at sunrise. Those analogue synths slowly building up and coming down >like gentle waves of positive energy. The tempo of this tape is what >I consider "ideal"... not too fast, but with plenty of energy. There >is a good balance between "trancing you out" to get you into good mindsets, >and "breaking it up" to keep the music interesting. There are a few >tracks on this tape that I am sure you will recognize as very recent >"instant classics." > >Now, I don't want to diss SF... but this is just an observation... it seems >that music in SF is just a little too "all over the place"... CL's >Odyssey has a deffinate continuity in the tracks... they all seem to be >of a particular style... a style that I, personally, find ideal. > >*** Blantant Promotion *** > >this 90 minute tape is availalble by mail from Ken of Pure Acid Mixtapes (LA) >for 12 dollars. > >*** End Blantant Promotion *** > >-troy > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >tsheets@cyborganic.net <- You have found me >tsheets@schwa.sun.com <- Official Use Only >http://www.cyborganic.com/People/tsheets <- Instant Content >troys-list@schwa.sun.com <- Inquire Within > > I just wanted to respond to this and echo an overwhelming agreement to Troy's posting regarding Christopher Lawrence and the "LA sound". It's my first posting so let me introduce myself...Juliet...live in SF...finally got a computer so I can have access to the list I've heard about for a couple of years now! Anyway, if anyone saw Christopher at Spundae a month or so ago you'll know - not only are his mix tapes great (check out CONTACT also) but his live sets are even better. My friends and I first saw him in LA opening for Josh Wink at Futurama in December and were more than impressed. Let's hope he plays more gigs in the Bay Area!! juliet :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 09:57:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA28705; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:57:31 -0800 Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA28698; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:57:27 -0800 Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id JAA11490; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:56:31 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:56:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199604061756.JAA11490@precipice.v-site.net> X-Sender: geoffw2@v-site.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Kristofer Ananda Carrison From: geoffw@cybertribe.com (Geoff White) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Geoff White wrote: > >> >> It has been hashed out many times you just seem to have your point of view >> and want to stick to it, that is fine but don't get upset if people tend to >> think of you as a whiner because of it. >> >> >You know, as a new member on this list, responces like this frighten and >discourage me from partaking in discussion. PLUR? R as in respect? >blkadder's honest opinion should never be called whinning simply because >you don't agree with it. > I am not calling Black Adder's opinion whining because I don't agree with it, I call it whining because in the face of blatant evidence put up before him: 1) From the archives where Martin pesonally answered this thread some 2 years ago. 2) From people on this list who are the epitomy of your so called PLUR who have worked for and with Martin FOR YEARS and have a very good idea of where the money goes, this has been communicated to BA both publically and privately. 3) From people who threw _very_ large parties at the same level as Martin, who IMHO, I would stake my life on their integrety ( not a idle comment for those of you who know me) have come out and mentioned their budgets. 4) Besides the fact that I have known Martin for years, have gone to his parties, not gone to his parties, gotten in free and paid full price. I know, for the most part, how much is spent on these parties and approximately how much is made. In the face of all of this it becomes apparent to me and other who have thrown both large and small parties that Black Adder seems to be out of touch with the politics and the economic climate of the San Francisco Event/ Venue landscape. Sure, if you cut corners and don't go through all of the hoops that the Establishment wants you to go through, you can throw a cheaper party. That is not what Martin is up to. I don't think _any_ promoter around has a better reputation with the local authorities than Martin, (maybe the FTT posse), if you have ever delt with city/state government in any capacity you will understand that if you want to be "legit" you have to do it THEIR way, which very often means you have to spend ALOT of money (anyone had their car towed by City Tow recently). Martin throws permitted, safe, LEGAL parties, these are expensive because the authorities know full well what takes place at these parties and don't like it one bit, one way that they make it difficult is that they make you pay large amounts of money for insurance, and city "services", Martin is also a shrewd businessman, he, like some of the others, would like to turn a profit. When you come to think of it, there are only a few promoter groups who ARE STILL operating on a regular basis, who throw LEGAL parties in San Francisco on a REGULAR basis, they are: Choices (Martin) FunkyTecknoTribe (Kevin,Jerry,Hector) Wicked (Jeno,Markie,Garth,Thomas) CDC sound system (Carlos Dutch) People always have shit to talk about all of these groups but I don't see anyone really trying to find out the truth, ALL of the above groups are still around because they exhibit some basic intergrety to the people who work for them and to the crowd that goes to their parties. Everyone who works for them get's paid (whether they MAKE MONEY OR NOT) which is a BIG plus if you've worked in the Scene for promoters for a while. MArtin can throw a party and make a lot of money on that one party AND LOOSE ALL PROFIT ON THE NEXT. This is a given and anyone who throws parties for reasons other it being a hobby knows this simple fact. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 10:32:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA01342; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 10:32:16 -0800 Received: from elaine21.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA01336; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 10:32:13 -0800 Received: (from mohack@localhost) by elaine21.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA17607; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 10:32:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 10:32:09 -0800 (PST) From: Kristofer Ananda Carrison To: "John S. Lee" cc: blkadder@value.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > Correction: Unless Adder or anybody else approaced Martin with their > concerns, before posting to the list, they are guilty of lack of recpect, > decency, and honor. Whiner is quite appropriate. Your whole flaming post is based on the assumption that blkadder never attempted to contact Martin, that he guttlessly started whinning. Have you been reading your email? I seem to recall the blkadder saying that he spent hours composing a personal message to Martin that was never responded to. Kinda hard to approach someone with your concerns if they ignore your existance. > > I don't know if Adder even knows Martin, or if many on this list know the > people they gripe about. I doubt many on this list who make 'observations' > or aspouse an 'opinion' have even TRIED to talk to the person face to face. > History tells me that in general, they never do. The reasons vary, but > all I can say is, if you can't say it to the persons face, then don't say > it at all. It is possible that the blkadder doesn't know what Martin looks like- > Adder was just adding his two cents, > with the same antagonism and vitriol he usually does. Personal vendetta against the blkadder? > exploitation of people. Mostly, people of color). Here you use the blkadder and me to launch yourself on a racial tangent. > 3 - Intimidating? Try raving-- in the traditional sense of the word. > 4 - Angry? Not really, but if I wait two minutes, I'm sure you could drive > me to the brink ;). No, I am angry. Angry at the inujustices of life. > Angry at the apathy of humanity. Angry that people talk the talk but have > a hard time walking the walk (hypocrisy). Angry at slogans and perpetual > sloganeering that offer no real solutions. Like 1984 by Orwell this > newspeak says a whole lotta nuthin'. Angry that there is a REAL holocaust > going on in this country, albeit slowly, against people of color. Angry > that some of my white sisters, often times (according to polls at least) do > not relate to the struggle that has allowed them to contemplate the > struggle. Angry that they have eyes, yet they do not see. Angry that they > have ears, but do not hear. Angry that they have mouths, but use them not > to solve problems, but to spite those whom they would never utter a single > syllable when face to face. Angry at humanity for she squanders her > greatest asset, her children. You know, I agree with much of this paragraph, but, what does it have to do with the current thread? > This world needs a high colonic. We could start with you- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 12:46:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA13200; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:46:51 -0800 Received: from sierra.zyzzyva.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA13195; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:46:47 -0800 Received: from sfbayguardian.com ([206.15.95.100]) by sierra.zyzzyva.com (8.7.4/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA15373 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 14:46:39 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 06 Apr 96 20:45:25 +0000 Message-ID: <19960406125335.f79790f7.ig@sfbayguardian.com> Subject: MicroPower Broadcasting Statewide Gathering From: Marco_A._Mancia@sfbayguardian.com (Marco A. Mancia) Organization: San Francisco Bay Guardian To: sfraves@hyperreal.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk hey today-right now in San Jose there is a gathering for all micro = and pirate radio stations in CA and other places. "From Arcata to = LA, free radio broadcasters and advocates will be meeting in San Jose = to develop a regional network of action and support. Join with them = in a struggle to liberate the airwaves from corporate control and = create grass roots community radio stations. " this will be at the = San Jose multi-Cultural Center 605 South 2nd St. (corner of Reed St.) = for mor info. call 510-464-3041...............there is BART and = carpool access as = well.....................orb......................23.................. ..out = From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 13:58:23 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA04106; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 13:58:23 -0800 Received: from mail1.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA04095; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 13:58:19 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA10948 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 13:58:12 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby.vip.best.com (tgrigsby.vip.best.com [205.149.169.221]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA24120 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 13:54:30 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 13:54:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199604062154.NAA24120@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: The Scathering Gram X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > 1) From the archives where Martin pesonally answered this thread > some 2 years ago. Out of curiousity, I went looking for that message. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places. Could someone post for the list -- since this has become such a high-visibility issue -- which message this was and where to find it? Thanks so much! S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 14:18:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA05982; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 14:18:35 -0800 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA05976; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 14:18:32 -0800 From: Jondabomb@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA21380 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:18:04 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:18:04 -0500 Message-ID: <960406171804_370388612@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: THE GATHERING Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk See you all at the party tonight. I'll be wearing my Naughty Boy T-shirt. Ill be behind the water bar. Come by and say HELLO! Jonathan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 14:26:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA06558; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 14:26:32 -0800 Received: from emout08.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA06550; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 14:26:30 -0800 From: Iwayryder@aol.com Received: by emout08.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA03070 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:26:02 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:26:02 -0500 Message-ID: <960406172602_265598955@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: $2 Bottles of Water Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Did anyone check out the party @ the armoury in modesto last night? I had heard rumours of a pretty good lineup (of dj's) the week before and fell upon directions at a cafe on McHenry around ten last night. oops. hi, my name is stephen X~) . I'm not wearing anything right now Y~) . i was dancing up front with a yellow yoga center shirt on. great vibe, good people, even in the sweltering heat and blatent exploitation. they wouldn't let us bring water in 'cause they were selling it inside a 2 bucks a pop. no chill space either. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 14:39:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA07380; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 14:39:09 -0800 Received: from mail1.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA07372; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 14:39:06 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA12445; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 14:39:06 -0800 Received: (inanna@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA08995; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 14:35:26 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 14:35:26 -0800 (PST) From: Melissa Wong To: Jondabomb@aol.com cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: THE GATHERING In-Reply-To: <960406171804_370388612@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Apr 1996 Jondabomb@aol.com wrote: > See you all at the party tonight. I'll be wearing my Naughty Boy T-shirt. Ill > be behind the water bar. Come by and say HELLO! > Jonathan > Does that mean there's actually going to be Water this time??? Can we bring our bottles in? Or, do we have to buy one first??? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 15:21:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA15183; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:21:18 -0800 Received: from elroy.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA15174; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:21:15 -0800 Received: by elroy.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.1) id PAA17045; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:21:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:21:11 -0800 (PST) From: Uncle Noah X-Sender: ez031733@elroy.ucdavis.edu To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: old skool rave tunez Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk after reading this stuff I dug out my "Best of Techno" CDs from Profile records... God, listening to that old shit brought back lots of old vibes and memories... I still love Gaza by Andromeda... (and I remember how well it mixes with Anasthasia by T99...) Anyway... :) --+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+--- "Uncle" Noah Apodaca - napodaca@ucdavis.edu Student, Disc Jockey, Resident Advisor "Mr. Kirk, you'd better come down to the station-house." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 15:26:39 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA16131; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:26:39 -0800 Received: from relay3.smtp.psi.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA16113; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:26:35 -0800 Received: from mx.macrovision.com by relay3.smtp.psi.net (8.6.12/SMI-5.4-PSI) id SAA05182; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:26:36 -0500 Received: from Microsoft Mail (PU Serial #1042) by mx.macrovision.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.8d for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1996Apr06.152200.1042.25970; Sat, 06 Apr 1996 15:23:09 -0800 From: mlogan@macrovision.com (Michael T. Logan) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (SFRaves) Message-ID: <1996Apr06.152200.1042.25970@mx.macrovision.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail via PostalUnion/SMTP for Windows NT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Organization: Macrovision Corp., Sunnyvale, CA Date: Sat, 06 Apr 1996 15:23:09 -0800 Subject: Caution: Lurking Newbie Ahead Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hi, all! Time for my intro. This is really a big step for me. If the following seems superficial it's because I tend to be rather reserved at first. As I get to know everyone here I'll likely become more vocal. Soon you won't be able to shut me up :) My name is Michael and I'm a chronic lurker. I've been lurking for about 2 weeks. (Here's where the other lurkers in the 12-step program all say "Hi, Michael!") I'm 28, though not very exposed to the "rave scene" (sorry if that soundss like a cliche). In fact, the only thing remotely resembling a rave that I've ever been to was this commercial thing held in China Basin a couple years ago (music: good; space: awful). I've been primarily a club-scene person ever since I moved to the Bay Area around mid-1992. Before that was a part of my life that didn't even have a club scene, much less raves. As for clubs, when I do go out (which lately hasn't been very often), I usually go to Universe on Saturdays (there's a clue here :) That's about all my commitment to my career will allow. Unfortunately, this has led to my fulfilling the old adage, "All work and no play...." So.... I pulled out my trusty web browser and went searching. I found the SFRaves page and this list. Heaven :) I'm planning on going to The Gathering tonight, so I'll keep an eye open for people who've left their description on the list. As for me, I'm 6'2", ~210, blond/blue, mustache/goatee, sideburns that flare out and point to the corners of my mouth. A friend told me I look like a gangster (just what my boss wanted to hear). I'll probably be wearing something simple like jeans and my favorite bowling shirt. If there's anyone down here in San Jose (I'm near 880/280) who needs a ride, contact me via any of the means below or here on the list. I'll be driving a Toyota King Cab pickup, so there's room for 1 or 2 more people. Love and Hugs! --Michael ********************************************* Michael T. Logan mlogan@macrovision.com I.S. Manager 1776828@skymail.com (p) Macrovision Corp. 800.723.8634 (p) 1341 Orleans Drive 408.743.8448 (v) Sunnyvale, CA 94089 408.743.8548 (f) If you can't reach me by _any_ of the methods above, I've probably been abducted by aliens. ********************************************* From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 15:48:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA20026; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:48:07 -0800 Received: from relay3.smtp.psi.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA19995; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:48:03 -0800 Received: from mx.macrovision.com by relay3.smtp.psi.net (8.6.12/SMI-5.4-PSI) id SAA05478; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:48:04 -0500 Received: from Microsoft Mail (PU Serial #1042) by mx.macrovision.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.8d for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1996Apr06.154100.1042.25975; Sat, 06 Apr 1996 15:44:37 -0800 From: mlogan@macrovision.com (Michael T. Logan) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com (SFRaves) Message-ID: <1996Apr06.154100.1042.25975@mx.macrovision.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail via PostalUnion/SMTP for Windows NT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Organization: Macrovision Corp., Sunnyvale, CA Date: Sat, 06 Apr 1996 15:44:37 -0800 Subject: RE: Caution: Lurking Newbie Ahead (adden Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Almost forgot the other distinguishing features: an earring in each ear and a ring on each hand (all are silver colored). Hope to meet some of you tonight! --Michael ********************************************* Michael T. Logan mlogan@macrovision.com I.S. Manager 1776828@skymail.com (p) Macrovision Corp. 800.723.8634 (p) 1341 Orleans Drive 408.743.8448 (v) Sunnyvale, CA 94089 408.743.8548 (f) If you can't reach me by _any_ of the methods above, I've probably been abducted by aliens. ********************************************* From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 15:49:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA20624; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:49:27 -0800 Received: from austria.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA20573; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:49:19 -0800 Received: from [153.37.82.123] (pool059.Max3.Santa-Clara.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.82.123]) by austria.it.earthlink.net (8.6.11/8.6.4) with SMTP id PAA18003 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:49:15 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:49:10 +0200 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: exodus@earthlink.net (Austin) Subject: Tribal Funk Review Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I had a good time at this party, however, I was falling asleep near the end so I left around 5.30 [(what can I say but it was a long night)Re:UnDruged when ever I am designated Driver I stay sober for the evening :) - I was DD last night]. Got to the deli on Jerold, just after 10 to hear Essence. I could hear the system down the street from the building a block or two. Very loud. The sound was good but just too loud for that space. I had to get my earplugs for this one. Lighting was done really good for this space. Lasers were very fresh and interesting throughout the night. Not a whole lot of people so it stayed very comfortable throughout the evening. Tribal put a lot of planning and love into this party, however due to cicumstances beyond there control(a fight, takin care of some f*cked up friends) I left unsatisfied - like I needed more - (Know what I mean?) Essence was fun to watch. He looked so happy back behind the decks. Then came Donald Glaude who steped in with some funky break, jungle (here and there) and some other abstract/house/weird tunes. At 2 they stopped the music to anounce the joinning of Chris and Trina in holy matramony - great couple. This stop of the music was sort of diturbing. It kind of slowed the energy of the party down, however it did bring everyone out to the dance floor. One thing that buged me was there wasn't enough dancers. I love to dance and that's what i come for but last night I got a wierd vibe from alot of people. It seemed many people were just waiting for some one to say "o.k. you can all dance now!" I say just dance and have a good time and not worry about anything or anyone else. Well Buck came back with some sick trance and I couldn't stop moving to his funk. Where's he been? Does anyone know? I remember him from a year or two back but I haven't heard him lately. Essence came back for about 10min. to kill some time - get some people out of there trance and John Howard came next. Soon after I left. All my close friends were there and it was good friday night party. My final Bitch: The owners of this space. They suck. Period. Exploting the ravers all around. I was told twice not to fill my water back up in the sink - I didn't want to pay $2 for a Crystal Geyser. $1.00 candy bars - I was sooo hungry I had to buy something, and the last straw - I wanted to get a friend another tootsie pop cuz hers droped on the floor. I asked the lady for two and she said: $2. $1.00 a piece for a stinkin' tootsie pop. I tried to barg with this lady. Saying I had already purchased a water and 2 candy bars, and all I wanted was 2 lolly pops 4 a buck. She said "We have to make money. There is no other place to go. Right? $2 for those, no deals." Bitch. I don't want to go back to this place again unless I really can't help my self. nuff said Sorry i cant make it to the Gathering - gotta work late. Have fun everyone. sm:)es __/-^-\__ <<<>>> `'\-*-/`' _@_/` ~\_e_/~ _G/ O ~\_Q_ ~\_8_| _9_ ~/ }} (*) < =99 /|\ (.)\, [#] ,/ }}\, \\ /| ~\/ \ _=3D=3D=3D___=3D=3D=3D_ // / \ /\/ // \\ / [___________] \\ \ / \ ~~ ~~ ~ ^ ^ ~~ ~ ~ ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 16:09:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA29798; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 16:09:55 -0800 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA29791; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 16:09:53 -0800 Received: from LOCALNAME (sf-tty16-ppp.well.com [206.15.64.115]) by mh1.well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA25160 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 16:09:21 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 16:09:21 -0800 Message-Id: <199604070009.QAA25160@mh1.well.com> X-Sender: julietsf@mail.well.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: julietsf@well.com (Juliet Diamond) Subject: re:party review Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk X-Sender: julietsf@mail.well.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfrave@hyperral.com From: julietsf@mail.well.com (Juliet Diamond) Subject: Re: Calling for Party Reviews! >>There's been a MAD, a Come-Unity and a Full Moon since last I saw a review. >>Let's hear about it if you went!! I know I get a vicarious thrill out of >>the reviews, makes me almost feel like I was there -- (this is how I'm >>planning to save $25 on the Gathering! :P). > >Well, here's my $.02 ($.35 with inflation): > >ComeUnity: It started out with some really...well...bad music. I just >don't really care for a lot of vocals and disco beat. I danced a little, >but it just wasn't happening. That about sums up the first 45 minutes. > >Then the disco melted in the increasing heat and the BPM accelerated. And >the crowd got funkier and funkier. It got bigger and bigger too, but it >never got so bad that I couldn't find a place to stomp. By 1am, the music >was HOT! I didn't go check the DJ, so could someone help me out: Who was >spinning at 1:30am and at 3am? Whoever it was, was ON! Also, dancing on >the balcony between the mac daddy bar and the patio, across from the stage, >looking up at the skylights: the reflection of the lights across the heads >of the crowd looked like magic lightning underneath the waves of the ocean. >That's the only way I know how to describe it. It was BEAUTIFUL. I'll >never forget it. > >Negatives: The mac daddy room with the couches and mirrors wasn't open >(pout) and the basement was playing this horrible music at eardrum >shattering levels. That wasn't a chill space, it was a torture chamber. >The only cool part was the acid visuals. During an event like ComeUnity, >the booths need to go and the bean bags need to come out. The music needs >to be more like the stuff they played at Chrysalis. And it needs to be >SOOTHING, not PAINFUL. I went back upstairs and grabbed a napkin, stuffed >it in my ears, and went back down to join my crew. In the minute that it >took me to do that, they had already decided not to spend anymore time >there, and we went out on the patio to chill. And *chill* we did. It was >freezing, but it was the only place to really relax. So it was either dance >or die. Hm. :( > >One other negative: The guy that spins the glow-stick numchucks - what's >with the ego? Does this guy think he's a star or what? I like to take >pictures of people at raves. I don't take pictures of people chilling >unless they say ok, but when people are dancing I've never had a problem. >Especially someone that's so into grabbing attention. But when I went to >take his picture he got quite angry and stomped off. Too big a star I >guess. Damn us papparazzi! > >All in all, it was ok, nothing special, but a good time. > >Have to cut this short, I've got a meeting to go to... > >S > > > One who always has a good set, Simon was on from 1-3(approx) and it was some of the best music I've heard in a while (anyone know if he'll be selling it as a mix tape?)...the vibe was also one of the best ComeUnity vibes in a long time (maybe because it was less crowded than it's been in a long time). Garth's first hour was OK, but we wanted to keep dancing and he slowed it down so much he put us to sleep! We tried for a while but the beat wasn't there so we ended up sitting till it was over at 5. If people want slower music there's always the chill room - why can't there be dance (house) music in the main room so people can have a choice? We were literally forced by the music to stop dancing and sit! Overall a roaring good time-even though work at 9AM was a little too early. jd From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 16:36:08 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA01627; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 16:36:08 -0800 Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA01613; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 16:36:04 -0800 Received: from v-site by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id QAA12008; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 16:35:05 -0800 Message-ID: <31670DCE.6306@cybertribe.com> Date: Sat, 06 Apr 1996 16:35:26 -0800 From: Geoffw Organization: The Cybergator's Guild X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kristofer Ananda Carrison CC: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Kristofer Ananda Carrison wrote: > > On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > > Correction: Unless Adder or anybody else approaced Martin with their > > concerns, before posting to the list, they are guilty of lack of recpect, > > decency, and honor. Whiner is quite appropriate. > > Your whole flaming post is based on the assumption that blkadder never > attempted to contact Martin, that he guttlessly started whinning. Have > you been reading your email? I seem to recall the blkadder saying that he > spent hours composing a personal message to Martin that was never > responded to. Kinda hard to approach someone with your concerns if they > ignore your existance. > Yes I have, black adder tried to contact Martin via e-mail. Being artin'sservice provider, know he reads his mail seldom (too seldom) plus if I were Martin, I would not answer any such inquiry form someone ovwer the net that I have never met. > > > > I don't know if Adder even knows Martin, or if many on this list know the > > people they gripe about. I doubt many on this list who make 'observations' > > or aspouse an 'opinion' have even TRIED to talk to the person face to face. > > History tells me that in general, they never do. The reasons vary, but > > all I can say is, if you can't say it to the persons face, then don't say > > it at all. > > It is possible that the blkadder doesn't know what Martin looks like- Maybe but research can be done, do you know what Martin looks like? Maybe yes, maybe no, but you girlfriend Mellissa knows what he looks like and you can ask her, Black Adder if you don't know Martin, I will be glad to introduce you two at the next opertunity that you are both at the same party. > > > Adder was just adding his two cents, > > with the same antagonism and vitriol he usually does. > > Personal vendetta against the blkadder? Black Adder brings this shit up at just about every gathering, it's getting tedious. > > > exploitation of people. Mostly, people of color). > > Here you use the blkadder and me to launch yourself on a racial tangent. I didn't read any thing into jsl post concerning you or black adder per say, are you feeling guilty? > > > 3 - Intimidating? > > Try raving-- in the traditional sense of the word. > Dude, jsl was throwing raves before you what the word ment, he was throwing and going to parties before I was going out, I think he can tell you a LOT about raving-- in the traditional sense > > 4 - Angry? Not really, but if I wait two minutes, I'm sure you could drive > > me to the brink ;). No, I am angry. Angry at the inujustices of life. > > Angry at the apathy of humanity. Angry that people talk the talk but have > > a hard time walking the walk (hypocrisy). Angry at slogans and perpetual > > sloganeering that offer no real solutions. Like 1984 by Orwell this > > newspeak says a whole lotta nuthin'. Angry that there is a REAL holocaust > > going on in this country, albeit slowly, against people of color. Angry > > that some of my white sisters, often times (according to polls at least) do > > not relate to the struggle that has allowed them to contemplate the > > struggle. Angry that they have eyes, yet they do not see. Angry that they > > have ears, but do not hear. Angry that they have mouths, but use them not > > to solve problems, but to spite those whom they would never utter a single > > syllable when face to face. Angry at humanity for she squanders her > > greatest asset, her children. > > You know, I agree with much of this paragraph, but, what does it have to > do with the current thread? > "I'm looking at the man in tha mirror..." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 16:51:24 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA02542; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 16:51:24 -0800 Received: from netcom10.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA02530; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 16:51:20 -0800 Received: from DialupEudora by netcom10.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id QAA05825; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 16:51:19 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 16:51:19 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Kristofer Ananda Carrison From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, John S. Lee wrote: >> >> Correction: Unless Adder or anybody else approaced Martin with their >> concerns, before posting to the list, they are guilty of lack of recpect, >> decency, and honor. Whiner is quite appropriate. > > Your whole flaming post is based on the assumption that blkadder never >attempted to contact Martin, that he guttlessly started whinning. Have >you been reading your email? I seem to recall the blkadder saying that he >spent hours composing a personal message to Martin that was never >responded to. Kinda hard to approach someone with your concerns if they >ignore your existance. What you and others fail to understand is that e-mail is NOt the same as face to face communications. Simple as that. You have to communicate with people the way they are accustomed to. I have always found it easier to talk to someone face to face, rather than e-mail. It may be fine for you, but it may be inefficient to others. And YES, I read the mail saying HOW Adder communicated. If you read MY message correctly, the emphasis was on face to face communication, not e-mail. The rest of your characterizations of my mail are rather moot. > >> >> I don't know if Adder even knows Martin, or if many on this list know the >> people they gripe about. I doubt many on this list who make 'observations' >> or aspouse an 'opinion' have even TRIED to talk to the person face to face. >> History tells me that in general, they never do. The reasons vary, but >> all I can say is, if you can't say it to the persons face, then don't say >> it at all. > >It is possible that the blkadder doesn't know what Martin looks like- > So he could ASK someone. Or maybe even attend his party. Look stop making excuses for people, and ask that at least people should really try to talk to someone instead of all this vaporous e-mail blather. He could get Martin's number and talk to him on the phone. Ask for Martin's number, or leave HIS number with someone who knows Martin. There ARE REAL avenues that exist for more 'real' conversation. BlkAdder and others just cannot sieze or even consider the many possibilites or opportunites available. Besides, he didn't say that he got in touch with Martin face to face. So I knew from his message how he communicated (or tried) to Martin. Reading is fundamental. >> Adder was just adding his two cents, >> with the same antagonism and vitriol he usually does. > > >Personal vendetta against the blkadder? Personal vendetta agianst his angst, his attitude, and many of his posts. I usually keep quiet, but since someone who I consider a friend is being maligned, I decided to speak up. As for vendetta, moot. I don't know him well enough to have a vendetta toward him. This is tedious. > >> exploitation of people. Mostly, people of color). > >Here you use the blkadder and me to launch yourself on a racial tangent. If you knew how to relate to people, or even read the post, it was a jibe against Levi's and aginst the aqusition of PLUR by anyone. The word has been co-opted. Find a new one. Unless you enjoy being parallel to big bizness/capitalism/greed. The second any company begins using the language of the street to communicate, it's time to find new words (something Africans in America are really adept at, hip-hop sayz it all). As for racial tangent, there is no such thing when dealing with America and Americans. Rcae is our national identity, and built into this ecomony and system of govt. As much as you and others would LOVE to wish it away, it stares you in the face. No matter how much you want to ignore it , it's there. Stop playing with computers, and reach out and touch humanity sometime. The result could be suprising. I stated fact, maybe you should study economics or something. A sprinkling of history as well would yield where and why I sadi that statement. Are you now the defense attorney for Levi's? oh well... > >> 3 - Intimidating? > >Try raving-- in the traditional sense of the word. thanks...probably used raver before you knoew what a party was. You are as tedious and trying as Adder, but with less sense. > >> 4 - Angry? Not really, but if I wait two minutes, I'm sure you could drive >> me to the brink ;). No, I am angry. Angry at the inujustices of life. >> Angry at the apathy of humanity. Angry that people talk the talk but have >> a hard time walking the walk (hypocrisy). Angry at slogans and perpetual >> sloganeering that offer no real solutions. Like 1984 by Orwell this >> newspeak says a whole lotta nuthin'. Angry that there is a REAL holocaust >> going on in this country, albeit slowly, against people of color. Angry >> that some of my white sisters, often times (according to polls at least) do >> not relate to the struggle that has allowed them to contemplate the >> struggle. Angry that they have eyes, yet they do not see. Angry that they >> have ears, but do not hear. Angry that they have mouths, but use them not >> to solve problems, but to spite those whom they would never utter a single >> syllable when face to face. Angry at humanity for she squanders her >> greatest asset, her children. > >You know, I agree with much of this paragraph, but, what does it have to >do with the current thread? Read the archives. See my previous posts. Get out of the box. > >> This world needs a high colonic. > >We could start with you- Q:"What are you?" A:"I'm a soldier." Reply: "No you're not. You're a messenger boy, sent here by grocery clerks, to collect the Bill." Later, John P.S. You need PLUR. A Piece of Lead Up your Rectum. Damn, I'm quite scatological today...sorry for the mess. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 17:01:18 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA03203; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:01:18 -0800 Received: from dub-img-5.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA03195; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:01:15 -0800 Received: by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA11306; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:00:44 -0500 Date: 06 Apr 96 19:59:09 EST From: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" Subject: Re: What is house dancing? Message-ID: <960407005908_71165.755_GHL111-2@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Krishna wrote.... > As you may remember from my intro I'm doing a video project on >house dancing. Or, at least what I consider to be house dancing. Two >months ago if asked to visually describe what house dancing is, >I would have shown a select few of the most stylish circle dancers. >My fascination with their attitude, ability and creativity is what >led me to become enamored with, and want to become a part of, that >select group. Thus, I started scruitinizing their dancing, mimicking >certain moves and attitude, and eventually got caught up in the >whole ego-based performatitive thing that is circle dancing. > What I've begun to realize is that circle dancers are only a >small group of ravers, and definately not representitive of the raving >community as a whole. So, to call them house dancers is wrong, and >possibly a disservice to the community. Their dancing is visually >beautiful, but hardly better than say, someone who for the first time >in their life has mannaged to break away from their insecurities, enter >into the music, and dance with abandon. Is this what I should show >in my video? > I guess I'm wondering what other people think of circle >dancers, and, if they can be considered house dancers. It's always amazing how what we think about something is changes the more we know about it -- dancing is the most important form of self-expression in my life -- and I thing our entire world would change if only everyone allowed themselves to dance .... it opens your heart, your mind, your chakras, it triggers your body's health and immune systems, and IT MAKES YOU HAPPY! I love to watch and learn from dancers, I'm always amazed that EVERYONE DANCES COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY - just like no two people are physically identical, no two people move their bodies the same --- And I watch the evolution of how people dance -- it's not just changing styles, although that's one element -- it's also that, as people become more open with themselves, more confident, more able to reach that "trance" state where the mind gets quiet and the body moves on its own, more skilled at rhythm and motion -- then their dancing changes to reflect their own growth --- I have one friend who started raving about 1-1/2 years ago, and he was ex-military, had always been a very controlled person -- his "dancing" them was very simple, small movements, stepping and swaying to the rhythm -- now he's much more open, fluid, free with his movements -- you'd never find him in the middle of a circle, but I love to watch him because he's now freely expressing himself. I can't wait to see how he dances a year from now. Are circle dancers house dancers? Of course -- but circle dancing is more about style and skill, showing off your most extreme and outrageous moves, watching and being watched and appreciating other people's dancing. I like to see it, because it's like the difference between being an artist and hanging your work on your walls at home, and having a big opening at a gallery. It's a public display of your self-expression through dance. However, only a small percentage of dancers circle dance -- they're almost always people who know each other, and they're dancers who throw themselves full-out into a minute or two of frenetic expression, then take a break while they watch the next dancer -- they're also usually guys, and most often they're not ravers, they're more like street dancers. So most of the great dancers will never be found in a circle, but a lot of circle dancers are well worth watching. Hmmmm.... a long rambling dissertation? Dancing is everything to me, and I have lots of thoughts and observations about it. See you on the dance floor! Leslie : ) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 17:24:52 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA04622; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:24:52 -0800 Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA04616; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:24:49 -0800 From: Trolup@aol.com Received: by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA17381 for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:24:22 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:24:22 -0500 Message-ID: <960406200508_370473264@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: RedHotChili TIX(nonrave) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Does anybody need or know anybody who needs a pair of TIX for the SOLD out RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS show tonight at the Cow Palace???? Ive got a pair and am selling them for $35 ea. contact Jen or leave a mess with your # at 510 487-2665 :)....please call b4 7pm thanx jen From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 17:26:47 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA04727; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:26:47 -0800 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA04719; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:26:43 -0800 Received: from [206.15.64.122] (sf-tty23-ppp.well.com [206.15.64.122]) by mh1.well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA00771 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:26:10 -0800 X-Sender: leftjab@mail.well.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:30:11 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: leftjab@well.com (leftjab) Subject: gathering message says $20 . . . Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk . . . so it's not $25. Much love and respect for all who expressed their views on the subject of money, commercialism & raving (even those who let it get a wee bit personal for the list IMHO). This subject will unfortunately come up repeatedly given our society, and even though SFR may have discussed this before, times and people and perspectives evolve. Raving doesn't come for free -- financially or otherwise -- but it's a given that more expensive parties will exclude a certain part of our family, even if they deliver in terms of sound system, djs, visuals, and smart organization for those who are there (the vibe factor not able to be purchased, of course). My batteries are recharged and I've decided to go tonight, with eyes open as to what goes on at a massive. At some point in the chill room the kaleidoscopes will make their appearance. peace, jonathan p.s. what a beautiful day :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 17:33:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA05144; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:33:10 -0800 Received: from dub-img-5.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA05139; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:33:07 -0800 Received: by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id UAA13937; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:32:38 -0500 Date: 06 Apr 96 20:31:28 EST From: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" Subject: Re: The Gathering Flames Message-ID: <960407013128_71165.755_GHL111-3@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Geeeeeeezzzzz..... what is up with all of this vitriolic caca coming through the wires about massives and all of the other issues that have been unearthed? I feel like I've slipped into some slimy muck and everywere I look another creepy crawly is coming out... A couple of points, if I may: 1. Everyone is entitled to express their opinion -- even if it might reflect on someone you know, or don't know, or wish you knew, or whatever. 2. If someone thinks $25 is a lot to go to a party, that's ok, isn't it? I mean, IT IS A LOT no matter what that money pays for! It's a lot to me, and I have a good job and income, so I know it's a lot to a student on a limited budget. Isn't that a fact? 3. I don't know Martin. Never met him, probably never will, have no opinions on his business acumen or integrity or anything else. Blank slate. However, if I had an opinion about one of his events, I'm entitled to it, and I'm entitled to share it here on SFRaves. That's what we do here, express our opinions. I'd hope not to be flamed for expressing myself here instead of in whatever way someone else thought I should, and certainly would hope not to be criticized for not having a personal conversation with someone I don't even know. 4. If we don't want to spend $25, we have that choice. Duh. We can still question the reasons, can't we ... why do I have this weird sinking feeling that the same people who say "question authority" somehow think that only means certain types of "authority"? 5. Making money is NOT WRONG!!!!!! I think it's great when parties are profitable to the people who put themselves on the line to put them on. What's wrong is ripping people off. As a businessperson, I get really worried when I see so many young people associate financial success with evil. I would like to wish for each and every one of us that we all make huge and copious amounts of cash for doing whatever it is that we love and that makes us happy, without exploiting other people. And employing people to help you do you business is not exploitation. There are good big companies and bad little companies, and the difference is in their values, not their profit statements. If you walk around with an "us and them" mentality about business, or politics, or whatever, you're never going to make the transition into a position of have the power to effect change in the world. Anyway, may I suggest that some of the recent threads have been more appropriate for a personal post rather than the whole group? I also second SDream's request that someone pull out that archive, and send us a copy of Martin's note from 2 years ago ... now that the can of worms has been opened, I'm curious to see what's inside...... Respectfully, Leslie : ) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 18:08:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA07493; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:08:32 -0800 Received: from CyberGate.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA07487; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:08:29 -0800 From: morton@CyberGate.COM Received: by CyberGate.COM (8.6.12/3.1.090690-Cybergate Information Services) id CAA16499; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 02:11:47 GMT Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:11:47 -0800 (PST) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Missing you all this weekend Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello All, I just wanted to wish you all a great weekend. I'm stuck in Fresno working the whole time, but thinking of you all none the less. I'm listening to the new Keoki CD I bought a couple of weeks ago. Guess that's about all of the rave scene I will be exposed to this weekend...hehehehe :) Anyway, I hope you all enjoy the Sunset boat party (thanks again Leslie for offering to pick up my ticket), and also The Gathering. BTW, I went to the last Gathering and had an excellent time. I do agree 25$ is a lot to pay, but it's a definite choice that one can make. Looking forward to seeing all of you soon. Have kind of written off going to Harmony, but now that I'm writing this message I realize that I want to come see you guys. I'll work on my schedule. Hugz to all, Marty p.s. Drink your water and take your vitamins this weekend :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 18:24:36 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA08536; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:24:36 -0800 Received: from elaine37.Stanford.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA08531; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:24:33 -0800 Received: (from mohack@localhost) by elaine37.Stanford.EDU (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA03801; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:24:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:24:36 -0800 (PST) From: Kristofer Ananda Carrison To: sfraves Subject: Wow, Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I did not join sfraves to incite this kind of anger. All I was trying to do was support blkadder's right to voice his opinion. I feel really bad for being a part of this war. Please forgive me if this has bummed everybody out. Have a good time tonight. sincerely, Krishna. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 18:45:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA09744; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:45:27 -0800 Received: from svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA09736; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:45:24 -0800 Received: by svpal.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #4) id m0u5kTr-000D89C; Sat, 6 Apr 96 18:45 PST Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:45:30 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: Re: Southbay party ??????? To: tim744@silicon.email.net cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9604060119.S302606379@silicon.email.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk contrary to belief, we did have the party. it was going till 6.3o am with the almost full moon till the sun came up! sorry the directions were a little distorted, i havent seen the space till i got there that nite. (its really beautiful!) it was kinda a last minute improv party, but we plan to do it again soon as we all had a lot of fun. love, tom On Sat, 6 Apr 1996 tim744@silicon.email.net wrote: > Just spent an hour and half driving thru every parking lot up and down Tasman > and McCarthy...No Glow sticks, no people, no music, nothing but parking > spots. So where is this party? > > Tim (knucklehead) > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 19:43:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA13272; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 19:43:41 -0800 Received: from dub-img-1.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA13265; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 19:43:37 -0800 Received: by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id WAA27312; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:43:10 -0500 Date: 06 Apr 96 22:42:22 EST From: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" Subject: Re: GEEZ!! The Gathering Flames cont. Message-ID: <960407034221_71165.755_GHL123-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Having just logged on and read even more of this ridiculous name-calling stuff and obnoxious behavior .... I would like to **respectfully** ask that you guys KNOCK IT OFF!!! PLEASE!!! NOW!!! Excuse me if I'm missing something, but to me it's nasty, it's personal, it's extremely unpleasant,it's making my stomoach turn, and the OTHER 438 people or whatever probably would also feel a little happier without reading this crap... May I suggest that the next time one of us (any of us!) starts to feel our hackles being raised by whatever (insults to our right to blow a whistle, insults to our close personal promoter friend, insults to our mind-alteration of choice, whatever) ... we try to compose a message that does NOT include the word ***YOU***. Because when it comes right down to it, we only have a right to write about our own opinions, thoughts and feelings, ... where the written word disintigrates is when we get these emotion-filled posts that say... what YOU don't understand is ... what YOU always say is ... what YOU should do is... (and how lovely to end with such a poetic new PLUR acronym translation, that just made my day - not) And, please consider leaving the whole list out of your cyber-brawl -- because it's really not appropriate. Frankly, I'm pretty offended by the language and the nastiness in these last threads.... this is nat SFR is about..... Trying to shake the stuff off my shoes so I can dance tonight.... Leslie : ) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 19:52:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA13822; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 19:52:34 -0800 Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA13815; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 19:52:31 -0800 Received: from 204.30.65.119 (sjx-ca22-23.ix.netcom.com [204.30.65.119]) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA18651 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 19:49:41 -0800 Message-ID: <31669487.73DE@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 06 Apr 1996 08:57:59 -0700 From: Terence Estioko Reply-To: ctd-zine@ix.netcom.com Organization: CT D-Zine X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Southbay party ??????? References: <9604060119.S302606379@silicon.email.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey I'd like to know more about this party since I live about a mile from Tasman and McCarthy. If anybody has any info pleez post the 411 asap. I'll probably see you all at the gathering anyway. 5'9" - yellow shirt w/ vertical black stripes - blk hair, and a big smile - If you see me say Hi!!! Hugs, CT From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 20:04:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA14741; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:04:35 -0800 Received: from orion.sfsu.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA14733; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:04:31 -0800 Received: (from dislex@localhost) by orion.sfsu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id UAA04907; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:04:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:04:32 -0800 (PST) From: MIKE BOLGER X-Sender: dislex@orion To: Kristofer Ananda Carrison cc: "John S. Lee" , blkadder@value.net, sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: david letterman's wife In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, Kristofer Ananda Carrison wrote: I seem to recall the blkadder saying that he > spent hours composing a personal message to Martin that was never > responded to. Kinda hard to approach someone with your concerns if they > ignore your existance. Tell me about it man. I've been writing letters to Jodi Foster for *years* without so much as a postcard in return. Fucking bitch ... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 20:07:17 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA15001; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:07:17 -0800 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA14996; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:07:15 -0800 Received: from well (mh2o@well.com [206.15.64.10]) by mh1.well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA11353; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 19:59:49 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:00:20 -0800 (PST) From: Maureen Garrett Subject: Re: Jupiter(sorry Non rave related) To: Andrew Knutsen cc: natural@sirius.com, sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <9604051718.aa04900@andrewk.pdev.sco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk My understanding of the 'Life on Jupiter' story is that it was concocted by a scientist (which is why it was so believable) on April's Fools Day in honor of Orson Welles' War of the Worlds broadcast. --Maureen On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Andrew Knutsen wrote: > > > Pasedena CA -- In an announcement bound to produce shockwaves around the > > >world, a government source disclosed a report which states that data from > > >the Galileo Mission to study the planet Jupiter has lead to the conclusion > > >that the lower atmosphere of Jupiter is "teaming with life." > > Did this story break last Monday, by any chance? ;-) > > Andrew > > > ----------------------------------------- > Andrew Knutsen andrewk@sco.com > Santa Cruz Operation (408) 427-7538 > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 22:11:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA24428; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:11:00 -0800 Received: from netcom7.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA24422; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:10:57 -0800 Received: from DialupEudora by netcom7.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id WAA29577; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:10:56 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:10:56 -0800 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Subject: Re: GEEZ!! The Gathering Flames cont. Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Having just logged on and read even more of this ridiculous name-calling stuff >and obnoxious behavior .... I would like to **respectfully** ask that you guys >KNOCK IT OFF!!! PLEASE!!! NOW!!! > >Excuse me if I'm missing something, but to me it's nasty, it's personal, it's >extremely unpleasant,it's making my stomoach turn, and the OTHER 438 people or >whatever probably would also feel a little happier without reading this crap... ^^^^ |||| Not very nice, calling someone's opinion, and retort to same crap. Also, I would avoid speaking for the 400+ people of the list. They are as different as people can be. There is a delete key. > >May I suggest that the next time one of us (any of us!) starts to feel our >hackles being raised by whatever (insults to our right to blow a whistle, >insults to our close personal promoter friend, insults to our >mind-alteration of >choice, whatever) ... we try to compose a message that does NOT include >the word >***YOU***. I will neither be told nor dictated how to conduct my communications. If someone attacks one of my friends, I will respond in kind. With facts, not fiction, libel, or slander. As for the suggestions, I guess that's what we need, even MORE rules about how we are to communicate & live. I think we have enough rules. You is very effective and useful, less one draw grand conclusions based on generalities. If I have a gripe with a person, then it will be them, it is only proper to use YOU in these cases. Not everything can be painted beige for easy digestion. And the fake civility, when one os really mad or upset, is even more phoney. Say what you mean, mean what you say, and accept the consequences of your actions/inactions. "It is better to live on your feet, than die on your knees." >Because when it comes right down to it, we only have a right to write about our >own opinions, thoughts and feelings, ... where the written word disintigrates >is when we get these emotion-filled posts that say... what YOU don't >understand is ... what YOU always say is ... what YOU should do is... (and >how lovely to end with such a poetic new PLUR acronym translation, that just >made my day - not) (I wish she just would've said JSL said or something, instead of the vague references...I bagged on PLUR. I think the written word degenerates when people use useless commerical acronyms, or are so vague as to defy description. I don't want tasteless bleached bread, I want jerk chicken and wheat bread. The stuff of life.) I am basically sick of seeing PLUR, PLUR, PLUR everywhere as if it was some mantra. But if you or others want to continue doing so, please go ahead. As much as I am sick of seeing it, I feel little need to respond to every incidentthat mentions the now near-mythic PLUR. The problem is one should be able to differentiate opinion from blatant accusation. For instance, you did not cite the original title of the thread which said "The Gathering Scam". This is not a statement of opinion, but slander against someone. It would be one thing to say "Gathering charges too much money." since that is very subjective. But saying that someone is pulling a scam is a completely different animal, and is slanderous at best. I and others, took offense. Especially those who KNOW Martin or those who have been to enough of his parties to know. Once again, this PLUR thing, if it was in effect, which it is not in the case of the start of this thread, would not have started all of this upheaval. In any case, this list is not only about your ideals, but about other people's ideals as well. We are communicating. The history of this list shows that people can be really steamed up, and then , all told, get back together as if things never happened. Shit flares up sometimes, and it subsides. Just the natural pattern of the list. The archives are my proof of this theorem. > >And, please consider leaving the whole list out of your cyber-brawl -- because >it's really not appropriate. When a public accusation is made, it deserves to be answered in public. Sorry if this affects you in the negative if the discussion is not all warm and fuzzy. Life ain't smooth all the time. If you don't like what you are reading, you can excersize the option of NOT reading the thread. you always have that choice. > >Frankly, I'm pretty offended by the language and the nastiness in these last >threads.... this is nat SFR is about..... I took offense at the very fist slanderous message. How did you determine what SFR is about for all 400 or so people who are on the list Leslie? SFR is one thing to you, and others may certainly share your view, but it may very well be differnt things to others you do not know. Do you know all of the 400 or so people on the list to make draw that conclusion? In any case, SFR is many things to many people. The only universal I can apply to SFR is a medium of communication centered around dance culture. But it is not just & only about that. We live in a larger world, and that world seeps in from time to time. For the better IMO. > >Trying to shake the stuff off my shoes so I can dance tonight.... > >Leslie : ) There is no reason not to have a good time. So... Have a good time and kick some steps! Peace, John P.S. I have found the best way to kill these moments is to cease comments about them. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 22:39:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA25946; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:39:55 -0800 Received: from cats.ucsc.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA25938; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:39:52 -0800 Received: from si.UCSC.EDU by cats.ucsc.edu with SMTP id WAA24313; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:39:54 -0800 Received: by si.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id WAA16538; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:39:53 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:39:52 -0800 (PST) From: Randy C Cone Subject: Re: UnDrugged To: Cassandra Ann Thomas cc: Larry Ching , Ronald Knegtel , sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Thu, 4 Apr 1996, Cassandra Ann Thomas wrote: > On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Larry Ching wrote: > > > Recently, Ronald Knegtel asked: > > > How the straight edge ravers here get by until early in the morning? > > > > > Catnaps in the chill room or some semi-clean area with minimum foot > > traffic. Relaxing every once and awhile. > > > > And - GOOD MUSIC ! > > > > Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com > > > > > This is one reason why I think it is so important to have chill rooms! > Too often when people throw parties they forget the need for a space where > people both on and off drugs can relax. I have seen many a bad situation > diffused because a person was able to be taken to a chill/ambient room > for time out. > > Cassandra > > Hi! I think this is a good spot to make my pitch --- As some of you may know, I sometimes do ambience at parties as Dionysus Dreams. I always like to think of what I do as a multi-media, enviromentally interactive artist. I DJ (CDs mostly), perform live music and soundz, create visual enviroments, and invite people to participate with me in the creation of some incredible public art forms that are very ephemeral yet very deep in their lightness. In responce to Cassandras's posting I find myself in deep agreement. I really am not so happy when chill rooms turn into trip-hop, trance, whatever dance rooms (although a short taste now and athen can be tasty). I really strive for a beatless (mostly) atmosphere sound that blends with the ambient room sound rather than forcing (this may be an exageration of others efforts) the vibe. My rooms evolve and grow and continue to do so long after the party is over. I try very hard to be the yin to the yang of the kinetic energy on the dance floor. Now I like the trip hop and trance stuff Enourmesouly ;), however I thing any decent rave needs an ambient room that is peaceful enough to nap, have heavy cuddles, socialise and more =). I would like to encourage others to communicate their desires for rooms like these at any given event. Oh yea, I'm performing at Harmony on April 12th. Please come by and say hi! I have a brown pony tail, a blond imperial, and a nose screw. I think I'm doing lights as well and I will be performing earlier on, I have to be at work at 8:00 am the next day ;( =*= ~ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sat Apr 6 23:39:32 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA29050; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 23:39:32 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA29043; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 23:39:29 -0800 Received: from [205.134.228.74] (ppp074-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.74]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id XAA23710 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 23:39:28 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 23:39:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199604070739.XAA23710@moon.sirius.com> X-Sender: natural@sirius.com (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: natural@sirius.com (Natural) Subject: Several crap DJs need rides to the Gathering Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Anybody going to the Gathering? As you know most DJ's spend way too much money on records to afford a car. Three examples are Josh, Jon Williams, and ambient honcho Darkhorse, who all live in the Haight area and don't have a ride to the Gathering tonight. If any one, two or three (cos there are five of us) people could help us out, we should have three places on the list for your trouble. We are all playing between 3 and 6 a.m. If you have any room, please give Graham or Jon a call on 415 626 7707. Thanks ___________________________________________________________________ coming this spring to a vinyl emporium near you nm2002 s c h o o l o f t h o u g h t slot machine....................................now relate.....................................rocket science.............. .....................chemical imbalance.............................drift apart.................................................... bizarre............................................twisted.................. ..................sonic origami......................... ........................amplified expanses.........................integrated discord...................................... cultured samples....................homogenized sound......................random resonance.......... ..........................concentrate hard........................................there is always room for thought. n a t u r a l m u s i c 1 3 8 8 h a i g h t s t a r e a s e v e n s a n f r a n c i s c o c a 9 4 1 1 7 t 4 1 5 6 2 6 7 7 0 7 f 4 1 5 6 2 1 6 9 1 3 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 00:51:57 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id AAA04970; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 00:51:57 -0800 Received: from iceland.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA04965; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 00:51:54 -0800 Received: from [153.37.82.83] (pool019.Max3.Santa-Clara.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.82.83]) by iceland.it.earthlink.net (8.6.11/8.6.4) with SMTP id AAA28929 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 00:51:51 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 00:51:47 +0200 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: exodus@earthlink.net (Austin) Subject: Re: Bad Signs Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >> >> [ to sfraves mailist ] >> >> In "honor" of the recent Lucky Charms fiasco , I thought I'd start a >> new topic thread: >> >> Signs Of A Bad Rave >> Some signs that might indicate that the rave may not turn out well: >> >> 1. Flyering and/or posters near intermediate and high schools. >> 2. Not so subtle drug references on promotional material. >> 3. Promotion material way before the event. >> 4. New or unknown promoters. >> 5. Size of promo material greater than an index card. >> 6. More than one DJ who is supposed to be playing somewhere else >> that night. >> 7. At least one DJ who's surprised at being listed to play! >> 8. Unintelligible phone message. >> > >9. At the map point, they give you directions to a 2nd map point. >10. The background music for the voicemail is a Moby song. wait a minute. I have heard some sick moby trance. >11. They describe their location as a "A clean, comfortable location > with it's own sound system.... in Palo Alto." >12. Nobody has said anything about it on sfraves. >13. The line for the guest list is longer than the line for ticket holders= From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 01:04:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA05524; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 01:04:16 -0800 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA05518; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 01:04:13 -0800 Received: from erase99.sirius.com (ppp051-sm0.sirius.com [205.134.229.51]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id BAA25854 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 01:04:16 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960407100356.006f38b4@moon.sirius.com> X-Sender: erase99@moon.sirius.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 07 Apr 1996 01:03:56 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Flaming 99 Subject: The Gathering Spam Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk ok. i just read over all "The Gathering Scam" thread. blkadder never slandered martin, the only mention of martin he made was that he emailed him and got no response. everyone just started jumping into the fray, making assumptions and reading things into the thread that were never there in the first place. the essence of the thread was "$25 is too much to pay for a party", not "martin is trying to rip us off". i know everyone here is a mature individual. just look back at the thread and try to find where these misunderstandings took place. there is simply no reason for this flame war - yes, i believe, judging from the last few posts, that it has aspired to that status - to continue. also, remember that this list is provided as a free service by someone who has to pay for the bandwidth. it's somewhat irresponsible to thank that generousity by chewing up their bandwidth with a flame war. intelligent discussion certainly has a place on the mailing list, senseless aggression, on the other hand, does not. so, let's all be rational about this and cease the hostilities. and on a related note: remember that organic (it is organic that hosts hyperreal, correct?) has to forward each piece of mail you send to the list 400+ times. i think we owe it to organic to be as bandwidth-friendly as we can be. not that this means that you should truncate what you are going to say, only that it's a little wasteful to quote and entire message only to add 3 lines at the bottom. although, in a situation where misunderstanding could take place, quote as often as you can to reduce the likelyhood of misunderstandings. peace everyone. Brendan From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 01:10:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id BAA05840; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 01:10:53 -0800 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA05834; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 01:10:50 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA20588 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 01:10:55 -0800 Received: from tgrigsby.vip.best.com (tgrigsby.vip.best.com [205.149.169.221]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA01566 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 01:07:09 -0800 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 01:07:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199604070907.BAA01566@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Tribal Funk & Good X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk In short: Tribal Funk was good, Good wasn't. Good: At the same location as Chrysalis, I figured it would go off well. I was wrong. The lighting was almost non-existant. There was an acid visual in one of the dance rooms, and music there was absolutely monotonous. There were some drummers in the back that helped a lot, but not enough. The ambient space had couches and cushions but no music. The other dance area had good music, but only a handful of people were dancing there. At one point, I even had the whole room to myself. About an hour after we got there, the police showed up, then the fire marshall. Something about permits. The population on the inside diminished as the population stopped at the door while trying to enter increased. We left. Tribal Funk: After the fiasco at Good, anything would have been an improvement. I was not hopeful though, since this rave took place at the same place as the Origins rave on March 9th. The Origins rave was hot (it felt like it was over 100 degrees, 100% humidity), packed to the point of being a death trap in the event of a fire, and overpriced at $20 in light of the ok music, weak visuals, and poor lighting. Well, again, I was wrong -- Tribal Funk was ON. The lighting was well coordinated, laser included, and the music laid down by Donald and Buck was stupendous! A little loud -- I had to get a napkin and fashion some earplugs. I chatted just briefly with Donald -- helluva nice guy! Cool moment: Looking down from the 2nd floor railing. Donald throws some great break beats, then does a build up and slams into some truly funky hard beat. He throws his arms open to the crowd and everyone goes nuts... Security was coooooool. Really nice guys, *very* professional, but friendly just the same. The crowd wasn't very thick, all things considered, but I didn't mind at all. There were enough people to call it a rave, and I danced all over the place. I had good friends with me, made some friends while I was there, and boogied my bootie off. Did more dancing upstairs than down. And there was NO HEAT! Fans and A/C were in plentiful supply. Security wouldn't let you fill up your water bottles, but then they didn't try too hard to enforce that either. A quick warning about the space on Jerrold: The folks that run the deli come in two flavors, thieves and closet nice people. The thieves are the ones that will charge you an ungodly amount for water (and anything else from what I've heard) and they're the ones that tell security not to allow anyone to fill up their water bottles. The closet nice people appear to be more thieves, but when no one's looking, they'll cut you a quick and cool break. One time, the guy behind the counter looked around, took my bottle, and filled it with wonderfully cold water at the sink behind him when the boss wasn't paying attention. Don't count on that kind of treatment though... One bad thing: This is the first rave I've been to where a fight broke out. Some big burly white guy with a shaved head and a long stringy goattee was involved. I've seen him around at other raves. I don't know what his story is, and I'm not trying to say the fight was his fault, but he always looks pissed off -- a regular walking negative vibe. He was trying to mix it up with some folks. I didn't see how things got started, but security surrounded him and encouraged him and one other guy very quickly -- and rather peacefully, actually -- to exit the building. It was over in half a minute. More kudos to the security guards. Well, my hamstas are sleeping, and I think I'll follow suit... S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 10:38:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA01219; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 10:38:20 -0700 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA01211; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 10:38:17 -0700 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA05199; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 10:37:59 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 10:37:59 -0700 (PDT) To: peter fogel cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: $25.00 party In-Reply-To: <199604060147.RAA26819@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, peter fogel wrote: > All I know is I've had amazing times at the gatherings I went to. If I > couldn't afford $25 every 4 months for parties like these, I think I > might put more energy into making more money. Or I would eat a few > more ramen noodle dinners to save some money from food. But at what point to you say to yourself "Gee self, I sure am getting sick of ramen noodles? $25, $50, $100 ? At what point do you say enough is enough, without some justification of the price? Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 10:39:35 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA01362; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 10:39:35 -0700 Received: from netcom10.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA01352; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 10:39:31 -0700 Received: from DialupEudora by netcom10.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id KAA09460; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 10:39:27 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 10:39:27 -0700 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: MIKE BOLGER From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Subject: Re: david letterman's wife Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, Kristofer Ananda Carrison wrote: > > > I seem to recall the blkadder saying that he >> spent hours composing a personal message to Martin that was never >> responded to. Kinda hard to approach someone with your concerns if they >> ignore your existance. > >Tell me about it man. I've been writing letters to Jodi Foster for >*years* without so much as a postcard in return. Fucking bitch ... Classic! Timing, impeccable!!! :) Peace, John P.S. Been to any good gun shops lately? ;) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 12:35:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA08571; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 12:35:25 -0700 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA08563; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 12:35:21 -0700 Received: from linda.teleport.com (shakti@linda.teleport.com [192.108.254.12]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA10440; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 12:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from shakti@localhost) by linda.teleport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA21765; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 12:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 12:35:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Brenda Brewer To: blkadder@value.net cc: peter fogel , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: $25.00 party In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk well, i guess we'll have to work on empowering each other to MANIFEST more money. ALL of us :) there's enough for everybody to go around and more! p.s. black adder is a sweetheart! i love SF! love, bren :) On Sun, 7 Apr 1996 blkadder@value.net wrote: > On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, peter fogel wrote: > > > All I know is I've had amazing times at the gatherings I went to. If I > > couldn't afford $25 every 4 months for parties like these, I think I > > might put more energy into making more money. Or I would eat a few > > more ramen noodle dinners to save some money from food. > > But at what point to you say to yourself "Gee self, I sure am getting > sick of ramen noodles? $25, $50, $100 ? At what point do you say enough > is enough, without some justification of the price? > > Black Adder > http://www.teleport.com/~shakti From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 12:49:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA09416; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 12:49:28 -0700 Received: from vanbc.wimsey.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA09410; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 12:49:25 -0700 Received: by vanbc.wimsey.com (Smail-3.1.29.1 #32) id m0u60Sh-0001shC; Sun, 7 Apr 96 12:49 PDT Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 12:49:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Karen Hardie To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: $25.00 parties Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk look you guys, JUST BE GLAD! here in Vancouver we get folks throwing $25 parties quite frequently which are worth about a buck fifty. i NEVER pay more than $15 for anything these days, and not even that unless i know it's going to be FUCKING AMAZING, because we have money-grubbing promoters up north who do the minimum amount of organizing and the maximum amount of sitting on their asses ingesting drugs so THEY can get ripped at the party too. *sigh* how i long for San Francisco ... k (not bitter *snif*) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 13:24:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA12054; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 13:24:40 -0700 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA12048; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 13:24:37 -0700 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA10712; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 13:24:23 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 13:24:23 -0700 (PDT) To: Geoff White cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: <199604060458.UAA10567@precipice.v-site.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Geoff White wrote: > Have you read Martin's breakdown in the archives? Yes. And I think it was really nice of him to do so. But we are not dealing with a static issue. A) Production costs vary from party to party, and B) The prices went *up* > >No, actually the issue has *NEVER* been hashed out. It had faded away, > >like so many other threads. If it had ever been resolved, it would not be an > >issue now. > > > It has been hashed out many times you just seem to have your point of view > and want to stick to it, that is fine but don't get upset if people tend to > think of you as a whiner because of it. Geoff, again, I did not start this thread(this time around.) I was voicing my agreement with Nancy. The issue has been "hashed out" to you because it was never an issue in the first place to you. There was never any "resolution" of this issue in my mind, and in at least one other person it would seem. Regarding whining, comments like this are really non-condusive to discussions. And honestly, I am secure enough in who I am not to be too concerned if you view me as a whiner because I do not share your views and am willing to express my own. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 14:02:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA15178; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:02:38 -0700 Received: from dale.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA15172; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:02:36 -0700 Received: by dale.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.1) id OAA13987; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:02:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Marc Pfister X-Sender: ez045207@dale.ucdavis.edu To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: BSP - Radio Show, 90.3 FM, KDVS (Davis) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk First, Some Blatant Promotion: Mondays 12:30-3:00 pm 90.3 FM KDVS, Davis, California DJ Jerecho presents the best of the urban polyrhythmic experience jungle, acid jazz, techno, electro, breakbeat Also stayed tuned for the Uncle Noah Techno Show, also on KDVS, but still trying to get a time slot... KDVS can be heard anywhere along the I80 corrider from about Fairfield up to Sacramento. Submissions are always welcome and will be played. Send to address below. And now some Blatant Self Promotion: Jerecho and Hannibal Selecta (that's me) will be rolling a full show of Jungle and Drum&Bass live in the mix on Monday April 8. thanks, h. selecta Send submissions to : KDVS attn: Joshua Sullivan 14 Lower Freeborn University of California, Davis Davis, Ca., 95616 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 14:18:29 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA16168; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:18:29 -0700 Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA16142; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:18:21 -0700 Received: from netcom.netcom.com (cami@netcom.netcom.com [192.100.81.100]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA20149 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:26:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by netcom.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id OAA15312; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:17:00 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:17:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Cami Edwards Subject: No Biggie To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk but, if anyone happens to have 2 extra tickets for Sunset lying around, give a call, we can take them off your hands. Thanks, Cami Cami or Andy (415)642-0454 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 16:00:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA23646; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:00:21 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA23631; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:00:18 -0700 Received: from 204.31.235.146 (sjx-ca29-18.ix.netcom.com [204.31.235.146]) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA12124 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:03:07 -0700 Message-ID: <3167A18C.6737@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 07 Apr 1996 04:05:48 -0700 From: Terence Estioko Reply-To: ctd-zine@ix.netcom.com Organization: CT D-Zine X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Where are you??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Claire, Lady Gateway, Where are you???????????? From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 16:01:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA23774; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:01:20 -0700 Received: from also.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA23762; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:01:17 -0700 Received: (from moonpup@localhost) by also.hooked.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA11391; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:01:18 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:01:18 -0700 From: Milton Cecil Message-Id: <199604072301.QAA11391@also.hooked.net> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: SHUT-UP !!! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk finally, the nasty debate should end here.......but I'm sure we all want to put our 2 pence worth.........now we can debade IF gathering was worth $25.00 or $20.00 or whatever the final price was.......frankly, my dear...i don't give a damn........I went to a free party that FnF held in the city..........worth every penny..........I hope if you went to gathering.......you had fun.........I'm a little embarrased to be part of the bickering and non ebicuous threads we have been sewing..........I wonder if anyone learned from this experience.........Nah.......till the next debate..........moonpup From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 16:15:04 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA25176; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:15:04 -0700 Received: from svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA25170; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:15:02 -0700 Received: by svpal.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #4) id m0u63fk-000D89C; Sun, 7 Apr 96 16:15 PDT Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:15:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: so how was the gathering? To: happy ravers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk anybody? energy, tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 16:57:31 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id QAA28762; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:57:31 -0700 Received: from ultima.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id QAA28755; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:57:27 -0700 Received: from ultima.org by ultima.org; Sun, 7 Apr 96 16:49 PDT Message-Id: <1.5.4b12.16.19960407225606.19872542@ultima.org> X-Sender: freakz@ultima.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4b12 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 196 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 07 Apr 1996 15:56:06 -0700 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Freak Zone Subject: WICKED! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Wicked rocked the house once again! WOW! -Sean _____________________________________ F R E A K Z O N E ! "House music all night long..." (415) 227-7421 _____________________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 17:08:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA29802; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:08:21 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA29796; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:08:19 -0700 Received: from [128.32.160.61] (hmfmac23.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.160.61]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA12110 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 16:07:01 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: nancys@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Nancy) Subject: Flames, PLUR & Community Issues Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Leslie wrote:> >Excuse me if I'm missing something, but to me it's nasty, it's personal, it's >extremely unpleasant,it's making my stomoach turn, and the OTHER 438 people or >whatever probably would also feel a little happier without reading this crap... I absolutely AGREE. I usually have a delighted smile on my face reading through all of your posts. But today I am frowning and I feel slightly ill. I hope we can deal with issues and debate amongst ourselves without this type of anger. And I find it disturbingly ironic that the ugliest posts reiterate the need for "PLUR"!! Price is a legitimate and relevant issue for us to deal with as a community. It is not only for _one_ consumer and _one_ promotor - it concerns US ALL. I brought it up because I did feel ripped off (along with wanting to discuss underlying issues, as I stated a few times) but some posts have provided me information that has made me re-evaluate the validity of that feeling - thank you for the info. SFRaves is many things - a forum for us all to collectively create "raving," a way to meet other ravers, a method to share information, and a place for debate. I did not think it was meant to _only_ share the hardest facts, not voice opinion, and never discuss something that may have been discussed earlier (i.e. "check the archives from ___TWO YEARS AGO!__"). If we're wrong about something, then please enlighten us. I _do_ feel differently about Martin now (too bad this went from generalized massives to just concerning him). I had cynically taken his messages of unity to be an example of exploitation of our beliefs based on my belief that $20+ was unfounded. If I hadn't started this thread I would still be of this opinion! I believe SFRaves values each of us - NOT just the "real" ravers who have been (so-called) "raving" since before some of us knew the word. I believe it is a place for us to explore what we love and what worries us - NOT a place that discourages discussion. I believe it is a place to be enlightened by others - NOT to only post when we can back up everything we say based on extensive, outside research. I believe in PLUR. I want to apologize to all the newbies who are understandably sickened by the tone this thread has degenerated into (and I guess to all the "real" old-school SFR'vers, I'm a newbie too!). Like what I think of as raving, SFRaves is dependent on the good-will and positive contribution of each of its members to create something beautiful. To me, peace, love, unity and respect is not a "pseudo-philosophy," it represents the highest ideals that I'm trying to live and help create in this lifetime. PLUR is also, I understand, the guiding philosophy of this list. Let's each remember that before posting, respect each others' inquiries and right to voice opinions, and teach and love each other! (And I send this dreading the mean replies I am sure to find :( Love to you all, Nancy > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 17:18:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA00550; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:18:25 -0700 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA00544; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:18:21 -0700 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA18376; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:17:51 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:17:50 -0700 (PDT) To: "John S. Lee" cc: Kristofer Ananda Carrison , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > Correction: Unless Adder or anybody else approaced Martin with their > concerns, before posting to the list, they are guilty of lack of recpect, > decency, and honor. Whiner is quite appropriate. uuuh... name-calling, how mature. John, I did attempt to contact Martin via e-mail on more than one occasion. Geoff was the one that suggested I e-mail or call Martin and provided me with the information to do so. When I received no response, I emailed Geoff who runs Martin's web site. Geoff told me that he would make sure that the letter got passed along. I made an honest attempt. > > I have to chime in at this time. I ALSO consider this constant bickering > about price whining, because it IS whining. Simply put, if you don't like > the price, don't go! If you don't like the promoter because he does not > live up to YOUR ideal, don't go! If you don't like it that DJ's make money > when they spin, don't go! Don't go if you don't like the fact that for > many this is one of the few ways some can make a living. You forgot one don't: Don't question any of the above because if you don't like the "answer" people will call you nasty names. > The problem is, this subject is constantly rehashed, right up there with > what is good music, what is too fast, what is too slow. To me it is all > very, very tedious. Then why continue to respond? If I bore you, ignore me. > > I don't know if Adder even knows Martin, or if many on this list know the > people they gripe about. I doubt many on this list who make 'observations' > or aspouse an 'opinion' have even TRIED to talk to the person face to face. > History tells me that in general, they never do. The reasons vary, but > all I can say is, if you can't say it to the persons face, then don't say > it at all. The small fact that seems to escape you is that I did attempt to get into contact with Martin. Personally. I have always prided myself on the fact that I will say anything that I do in e-mail to a persons face so, no issue there. > Commercial, non-commercial (everything in SF is commercial at this point, > UG? There hasn't been UG in SF for a couple of years now...)...who cares? Really? You need to get out more. > If you can go out to the parties you respect, that speaks more than all the > "observations" and "opinions" one could ever utter. Martin nor any other > promoter should ever feel inclined to show any books just to satisfy the > few who would dare request same face to face (Where I am from, if you can't > confront someone face to face, you're simply a "punk", as in gutless. Due > to being on the left coast , "griper" or "whiner" is appropriate.) So let's get this straight.: A) It is my responsibility to get in touch with someone who I think is overcharging for their parties, given what I have seen of them from personal experience. My experiences and opinions based on said experiences are invalid nor should I mention them, until such time as I have contacted the person in question. However: B) The person in question should not feel any obligation to acknowledge my concerns, nor should they feel any obligation to address my concerns.. Your logic baffles me. > I think that one has much greater clout by saying "Hey, Martin's parties > cost too much. I have talked with him about it and..." at least you get > some points for approaching the person before talking shit about them. Yes, but this would assume that you are the one keeping score. John, I could go through every obstacle course you could think up, and in the end I don't think it would really change your perception of me as a "whiner" > That roundabout anonymous e-mail to the world crap, under the guise of > "opinion" is disingenuine at best, backstabbing at worse. I find very little "roundabout" in my actions. I made a statement in a public mailing list. Anyone who cares to respond to what I feel has my e-mail address, and as this letter to you should attest I am quite willing to discuss my feelings with practically anyone, even those that choose to delve into name-calling. > > Is that respect? When you talk about someone, but never make an attempt to > talk to them face-to-face? I dunno, I KNOW Martin. I have KNOWN Martin > for YEARS. I have had in general, a good time with Martin, and have found > Martin to be a nice guy. Oh yes, there are some things I don't agree with, > and I talked with him about these issues when it arose. But I ALWAYS took > it to his face, like I take it to anybody's face who I disagree with > strongly. If it's that important, the person deserves, out of RESPECT, to > hash it out with me first, before I go around with my "comclusion" (read > opinion). Well, lessee.... We are disagreeing strongly... You have made your "conclusions" or opinions clear... Gosh, I don't seem to remember any attempts by you to contact me so we could hash things out between the two of us.. And I would not expect you to. You have seen enough of my statements and opinions to draw an opinion of me. If I had to talk to every person in the world with whom I disagreed with strongly about something, I wouldn't have a whole heck of a lot of time to live my life. Many politicians, the DMV, every wacko on daytime t.v., etc. Yup there sure are a lot of people I disagree with. And by your logic it would be DISRESPECTFUL not to talk to each and every one of them face-to-face before I formed or expressed an opinion, my personal experience and/or their actions and words nonwithstanding. Now, if given the opportunity to speak with the person and the other party was to turn down that opportunity if even the remotest chance that something productive would come out of it, *THAT* would be disrespectful. I would invite you to consider your thinking in this matter. The way I see it, if we choose my approach neither one of us are wrong. If we choose your method then: a) Plan on spending a lot less time with the family, cause your gonna be talking with people you disagree with b) You would be just as guilty as I, and hey, I didn't choose that paradigm. > I know Adder didn't call Martin's parties a scam. I know the orignal > poster was trying to be provocative. Adder was just adding his two cents, > with the same antagonism and vitriol he usually does. Well by your reasoning it would seem that we have something in common. > To the original poster, try something new. Try RESPECT sometime. You got > a problem, take it to the source, then, if you could, let us know the > result of your ACTION. Make yourself known to Martin and address your > problems with him before you get on the list and talk noise. The I suggest you take your own advice. > information you would then provide will be of some value to all, and would > probably be of some value to Martin as well. I also know Martin will > address your concerns, even though he may not know you from Adam. Of > course, he doesn't have to say or prove anything to anybody. The man has Again we have "bring your concerns to the table and they will be addressed" followed by "but he doesn't have to answer anything." > DONE his job! (he has brought more happiness, and more new people in the > scene, and made sure so many could pay rent, it's not funny. He has help > raise tens of thousands of dollars for a friend, and helped keep this scene > alive with music. There's really only one question to ask yourself, > namely, "What have *I* done?"). You paint the picture of an altruist. My understanding is that in this regard we are discussing a person that is making a living off of members of the "community." I am not saying this is a bad thing. However, like so many other businessmen out there, it would appear to paraphrase Geoff has that he is charging "what the market will bear." Just another person out there trying to make a living. Nothing wrong with that at all. Also, charity contributions like you mention above should not go unnoticed, and is exactly the type of information I have been attempting to discover. > PLUR? Just another slogan for people to use when the tenents of said > psuedophilisophy cannot be adhered to even slightly. talk about > commercial, even the Levi's site uses this term now. Now THAT'S > commercial. (IMHO - A captialist company like Levi's, inherently, cannot > subscribe to PLUR, since profit in our system requires the subjugation and > exploitation of people. Mostly, people of color). Don't talk about it, > just do it! Hey, since you just went off on a totally unrelated racial tangent: Statistically, as a whole, people of color make less money then anglo-americans. Since they make less money, less people of color will have the financial ability to go to a party as the prices scale up. Wouldn't this mean that by exclusionary pricing that the promoters of a party were engaging in discrimination by economics? Sound silly? > PLUR? A term that reduces the complex problems of a diverse society to a > simple minded acronym. Look out John, I'm agreeing with you on something! > 3 - Intimidating? Thank you. I do not try, but I like the characteristic > usually saved for people like the Great Minister Louis Farrakhan, Malcolm > X, Martin Luther King, my Grandmother, my Father, Miles Davis, Angela > Davis, Bell Hooks, Alice Walker, and any other person of African descent > who dares to speak his/her mind. I could only aspire to the aforementioned > greatness and will, epsecially in the face of this place, this United > States of America. Ahh yes "Great Minister Louis Farrakhan" Doesn't like Jews much does he? Hey I seem to remember someone else that didn't like Jews too much either.. Seems that he killed several million of them... oh well nevermind... Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 17:45:09 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA02770; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:45:09 -0700 Received: from netcom12.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA02758; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:45:06 -0700 Received: by netcom12.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA23135; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:45:06 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:45:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael E. Clay" Subject: Back from deserts into flames To: sfraves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Boy it's hotter than ever around here.... All this discussion about $20-25 parties.... personally I find the massives rather boring - others find them a dream .... The REALLY amusing thing about it all is how many people bitch about the $25 cost of a party only to spend 2-3 times that much on their party "vitamins" and toys .... now that's what I call a real budget ;-) I can tell it's Spring time - the plants are working over time to make extra oxygen - they must be 'cause the flames are burning brighter than ever...... IF more people come do I get a discount ticket ? Volume buying doesn't seem to work for raves.... but then it doesn't work with CA taxes either... It's good to see everyone's having a good time.... Mike meclay@netcom.com | Alone & ecstatic Mike Clay (415)572-8971 | A young rainbow learns to levitate. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 17:47:22 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id RAA02918; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:47:22 -0700 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA02912; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:47:17 -0700 From: volt@best.com Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id RAA11873 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:47:18 -0700 Received: from .best.com (volt.vip.best.com [206.86.76.239]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA17353 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:43:35 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 17:43:35 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19960407175009.2e8f492a@best.com> X-Sender: volt@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Flames, PLUR & Community Issues Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 04:07 PM 4/7/96 -0800, Nancy wrote: > >SFRaves is dependent on the good-will and positive contribution of each of >its members to create something beautiful. To me, peace, love, unity and >respect is not a "pseudo-philosophy," it represents the highest ideals that >I'm trying to live and help create in this lifetime. PLUR is also, I >understand, the guiding philosophy of this list. Let's each remember that >before posting, respect each others' inquiries and right to voice opinions, >and teach and love each other! > >(And I send this dreading the mean replies I am sure to find :( > >Love to you all, >Nancy I would like to start off by saying, more power to you Nancy! I'm also doing my best to uphold PLUR, because to me it represents an important set of values conspicuously absent in so many people out there. That's one of the reasons I'm still on this list, because I thought I found it here, in you guys. This is my first post on this "Gathering Scam" thread, but I've read most of the posts concerning it, and many seem really accusational (is that a real word?) not to mention disrespectful of the rights of others to express a disparate opinion. I personally find it disruptive to the sense of community and well-being that seemed to carry the conversation on this list when I first joined (about a month ago), so I'd just like to express my opinion as being in agreement with Nancy here, that we should really just try to help and understand each other in spite of our differences instead of trying to convert someone over to your point of view because of those differences. (Did that make any sense?) Anyways, I hope that whole thread dies real soon, or at least picks up a positive tone. A big, warm, fluffy hug to all my brothers and sisters on the list! Keep PLUR alive! Here's looking at all of you, volt From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 18:25:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA05947; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 18:25:55 -0700 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA05938; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 18:25:46 -0700 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA20879; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 18:25:20 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 18:25:20 -0700 (PDT) To: Geoff White cc: Kristofer Ananda Carrison , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: <199604061756.JAA11490@precipice.v-site.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, Geoff White wrote: > I am not calling Black Adder's opinion whining because I don't agree with it, > I call it whining because in the face of blatant evidence put up before him: > 1) From the archives where Martin pesonally answered this thread > some 2 years ago. Again the issue is forced to be Martin-specific. O.k. Geoff, yes the question was answered 2 years ago. However, I see many other promoters maintaning their $20 prices, and one going up. So I question the necessity of this. In what way am I whining when I say I don't feel a party should cost that much? > 2) From people on this list who are the epitomy of your so called PLUR > who have worked for and with Martin FOR YEARS and have a very good > idea of where the money goes, this has been communicated to BA > both publically and privately. Untrue. First off, no one has given me any kind of idea where the money goes, except to refer to a two-year old post. Second no one has ever emailed me privately on this matter. > 3) From people who threw _very_ large parties at the same level as > Martin, who IMHO, I would stake my life on their integrety ( > not a idle comment for those of you who know me) have come out > and mentioned their budgets. But what bearing does that have on a determination as to whether or not I am whining? Last time I checked most people made those type of determinations by looking at what the person in question said. What your friends told *you* about the cost of a party has nothing to do with whether *I* am whining or not. > 4) Besides the fact that I have known Martin for years, have gone to his > parties, not gone to his parties, gotten in free and paid full price. > I know, for the most part, how much is spent on these parties and > approximately how much is made. In the face of all of this And at which no time did you offer this information. You want me to shut up? Change my opinion. You want to change my opinion? Give me some facts. Throughout all of this, I have always said that I am willing to listen. What good is your knowledge and experience if instead of sharing it, you choose to engage in name-calling instead? > it becomes apparent to me and other who have thrown both large > and small parties that Black Adder seems to be out of touch with > the politics and the economic climate of the San Francisco Event/ > Venue landscape. Sure, if you cut corners and don't go through all > of the hoops that the Establishment wants you to go through, you can > throw a cheaper party. That is not what Martin is up to. I don't > think _any_ promoter around has a better reputation with the local > authorities than Martin, (maybe the FTT posse), if you have ever delt > with city/state government in any capacity you will understand that > if you want to be "legit" you have to do it THEIR way, which very > often means you have to spend ALOT of money (anyone had their car > towed by City Tow recently). Martin throws permitted, safe, LEGAL > parties, these are expensive because the authorities know full well > what takes place at these parties and don't like it one bit, one way > that they make it difficult is that they make you pay large amounts > of money for insurance, and city "services", Martin is also a shrewd > businessman, he, like some of the others, would like to turn a > profit. I am out of touch? I think $25 is a lot of money. I don't consider wanting to justify that kind of outlay being out of touch. I have never argued that the parties are not done "properly" from a legal standpoint, nor have I ever claimed it was "cheap." > Everyone who works for them get's paid (whether they MAKE MONEY OR > NOT) which is a BIG plus if you've worked in the Scene for promoters > for a while. MArtin can throw a party and make a lot of money on that > one party AND LOOSE ALL PROFIT ON THE NEXT. This is a given and > anyone who throws parties for reasons other it being a hobby knows > this simple fact. True. But do higher costs contribute to or alleviate the problem? Guess it all depends on what the market will bear, huh? At any rate, little if any of this relates to "whining." I do not share your views, and will be the first to say so to you or anyone else that brings the matter up. You express your opinion whenever I express mine, and I don't accuse you of whining. Because you're not. You are expressing a differing opinion. Just as I am. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 18:50:21 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id SAA07508; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 18:50:21 -0700 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA07502; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 18:50:18 -0700 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA21648; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 18:50:18 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 18:50:17 -0700 (PDT) To: Geoffw cc: Kristofer Ananda Carrison , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: <31670DCE.6306@cybertribe.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, Geoffw wrote: > Kristofer Ananda Carrison wrote: > > > > On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > > > > > > Correction: Unless Adder or anybody else approaced Martin with their > > > concerns, before posting to the list, they are guilty of lack of recpect, > > > decency, and honor. Whiner is quite appropriate. > > > > Your whole flaming post is based on the assumption that blkadder never > > attempted to contact Martin, that he guttlessly started whinning. Have > > you been reading your email? I seem to recall the blkadder saying that he > > spent hours composing a personal message to Martin that was never > > responded to. Kinda hard to approach someone with your concerns if they > > ignore your existance. > > > > Yes I have, black adder tried to contact Martin via e-mail. Being artin'sservice > provider, know he reads his mail seldom (too seldom) plus if I were Martin, > I would not answer any such inquiry form someone ovwer the net that I have never met. For the record Geoff, you told me to ask Martin directly, and provided me with Martin's e-mail address in order to contact him. After repeated attempts to contact him, I wrote you about my difficulties, and you stated that you would see that the letter got passed along. I also included personal contact info in the letter. You attenpt to argue that I should get the "facts," and yet when I attempt to do so *per your suggestion* the result was bounced mail, which I was told would be forwared to Martin. Now you go so far as to state that you wouldn't answer any such questions over the net. If you felt this, why tell me to contact Martin at all? > > It is possible that the blkadder doesn't know what Martin looks like- > > Maybe but research can be done, do you know what Martin looks like? Maybe yes, > maybe no, but you girlfriend Mellissa knows what he looks like and you can ask her, > Black Adder if you don't know Martin, I will be glad to introduce you two at the > next opertunity that you are both at the same party. Great. I would appreciate that. > > Black Adder brings this shit up at just about every gathering, it's getting tedious. May I refer you to a) the originator of this thread who was Nancy, not I? b) I offer my opinion again because I still feel it has merit. Black Adder From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 19:56:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA12370; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 19:56:20 -0700 Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA12360; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 19:56:17 -0700 Received: from DialupEudora by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id TAA12597; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 19:55:54 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 19:55:54 -0700 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: blkadder@value.net From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam Cc: Kristofer Ananda Carrison , sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > >> >> Correction: Unless Adder or anybody else approaced Martin with their >> concerns, before posting to the list, they are guilty of lack of recpect, >> decency, and honor. Whiner is quite appropriate. > >uuuh... name-calling, how mature. John, I did attempt to contact Martin >via e-mail on more than one occasion. Geoff was the one that suggested >I e-mail or call Martin and provided me with the information to do so. >When I received no response, I emailed Geoff who runs Martin's web site. Geoff >told me that he would make sure that the letter got passed along. I made an >honest attempt. I understand that you like e-mail, and can easily converse in person. My sources indicate you do so easily and readily (and from personal experience I do attest). All I suggest is try to do a face to face with Martin, that's all. I bought a book today called "Silicon Snake Oil" by Clifford Stoll. He has struck a chord with me. He says, in the intro: "Perhaps our networked world ins't a universal doorway to freedom. Might it be a distraction from reality? An ostritch hole to divert our attention and resources from social problems? A misuse of technology that encourages passive rather than active participation?..." I tend to agree with him. I guess I'd rather press flesh (ala handshake, and please make it firm, I hate weak handshakes), be close enough to hear you breath, see your eyes as you think, and watch your body gestures as you talk. I suspect, like Stoll I am not the first. I think many may find e-mail uncomfortable, epsecially with those they have not met face to face. Just a differnt view of communication. I think virtual CAN be fine, when you know the person. At least that has been my experience. > >> >> I have to chime in at this time. I ALSO consider this constant bickering >> about price whining, because it IS whining. Simply put, if you don't like >> the price, don't go! If you don't like the promoter because he does not >> live up to YOUR ideal, don't go! If you don't like it that DJ's make money >> when they spin, don't go! Don't go if you don't like the fact that for >> many this is one of the few ways some can make a living. > >You forgot one don't: Don't question any of the above because if you >don't like the "answer" people will call you nasty names. I replied to Krishna's post to GeoffW. And agreed with GeoffW's assertion. I know you well enough to know these comments would never sway you to tone down your vitriol against Martin. You have a right to your opinion. I guess we are both in the same boat. We suffer for our opinions sometimes. I kinda take the good with the bad. > >> The problem is, this subject is constantly rehashed, right up there with >> what is good music, what is too fast, what is too slow. To me it is all >> very, very tedious. > >Then why continue to respond? If I bore you, ignore me. The tag was not against you, but of the general subject matter that goes on the list time after time. And I do ignore you most of the time. Although I read your posts with great interest, I do not feel the need to respond to each and every one. Some I ignore (but read), others I respond to. I've been pretty quiet on the list of late. It takes quite a bit to bring me out of the lurker mode. I'm too busy deleting messages about PLUR most of the time ;). >> >> I don't know if Adder even knows Martin, or if many on this list know the >> people they gripe about. I doubt many on this list who make 'observations' >> or aspouse an 'opinion' have even TRIED to talk to the person face to face. >> History tells me that in general, they never do. The reasons vary, but >> all I can say is, if you can't say it to the persons face, then don't say >> it at all. > >The small fact that seems to escape you is that I did attempt to get into >contact with Martin. Personally. > >I have always prided myself on the fact that I will say anything >that I do in e-mail to a persons face so, no issue there. I do not remeber you mentioning it. I know you tried to get a hold of Martin through e-mail, and thought that was your only attempt. I aplogize if I jumped to conclusions by stating you had exhauseted the options, if in fact you did not. > >> Commercial, non-commercial (everything in SF is commercial at this point, >> UG? There hasn't been UG in SF for a couple of years now...)...who cares? > >Really? You need to get out more. I have done enough partying to last 10 lifetimes. I have done enough dancing in UG's and "commercial" venues in SF to last 10 lifetimes. I have seen the best and worst of it. I have seen g-d, the blue buddah, and matrix horses on the submixer (huh? can I get a witness GW). I go out rarely since I have other things to do. Partying is much less important to me because I have a large netowrk of friends in SF (which BTW, I got through dance culture). I am not negative on dance culture, on the contrary, I promote it! But I tell you this much. UG use to be a massive phone netowrk in this city. Yeah you found out, but it was usually by a phone call. Which, by today's standards of e-mail and such, would seem organic. Things change, as do perceptions. I guess if someone on the list posts about a party that at LEAST 400+ people will automatically be notified, as different from calling someone on the phone, which could take hours to complete. There is something about the 'work' of it that I miss. I am still connected, I just keep my phone unplugged these days. > >> If you can go out to the parties you respect, that speaks more than all the >> "observations" and "opinions" one could ever utter. Martin nor any other >> promoter should ever feel inclined to show any books just to satisfy the >> few who would dare request same face to face (Where I am from, if you can't >> confront someone face to face, you're simply a "punk", as in gutless. Due >> to being on the left coast , "griper" or "whiner" is appropriate.) > >So let's get this straight.: > >A) It is my responsibility to get in touch with someone who I think is > overcharging for their parties, given what I have seen of them from > personal experience. My experiences and opinions based on said > experiences are invalid nor should I mention them, until such time as I > have contacted the person in question. > > However: > >B) The person in question should not feel any obligation to acknowledge > my concerns, nor should they feel any obligation to address my concerns.. > >Your logic baffles me. I guess it's the old paradigm: Q: "Can I ask you a question?" A: "You can ask." In other words you can ask, he is under no obligation to oblige. That is my logic. > >> I think that one has much greater clout by saying "Hey, Martin's parties >> cost too much. I have talked with him about it and..." at least you get >> some points for approaching the person before talking shit about them. > >Yes, but this would assume that you are the one keeping score. I would love to keep score. If you would have me do so sir. ;) > >John, I could go through every obstacle course you could think up, and in >the end I don't think it would really change your perception of me as a >"whiner" Sir, I do not think of you as a whiner per se. Even I whine at times. I bitch and moan and complain about many of the things going on this list (see my tirade of late against that ridiculous PLUR rubbish. <- NOTE: I am whining AGAIN!). You sir are provocative, antagonistic to name a few. But you are also a humanist, and idealistic in as many ways from what I gather of your e-messages. I would never reduce you to a single adjective. That would deny the other things you surely are. Both good and bad. > >> That roundabout anonymous e-mail to the world crap, under the guise of >> "opinion" is disingenuine at best, backstabbing at worse. > >I find very little "roundabout" in my actions. I made a statement in a >public mailing list. Anyone who cares to respond to what I feel has my >e-mail address, and as this letter to you should attest I am quite >willing to discuss my feelings with practically anyone, even those that >choose to delve into name-calling. Understood. I have only suggested that for some face to face might get you the results, and answers you desire. Especially in SF, a place small enough that you could very well arragne to meet or talk to Martin on the phone. We're all very lucky (those of us who live here at least), in that regard. All I suggested is a different approach. > >> >> Is that respect? When you talk about someone, but never make an attempt to >> talk to them face-to-face? I dunno, I KNOW Martin. I have KNOWN Martin >> for YEARS. I have had in general, a good time with Martin, and have found >> Martin to be a nice guy. Oh yes, there are some things I don't agree with, >> and I talked with him about these issues when it arose. But I ALWAYS took >> it to his face, like I take it to anybody's face who I disagree with >> strongly. If it's that important, the person deserves, out of RESPECT, to >> hash it out with me first, before I go around with my "comclusion" (read >> opinion). > >Well, lessee.... We are disagreeing strongly... You have made your >"conclusions" or opinions clear... Gosh, I don't seem to remember any >attempts by you to contact me so we could hash things out between the two >of us.. We both can do e-mail, and as I recall you and I have had at least a few sessions privately about Affrimative Action as I recall. I see no problem in our channel of communications Adder. We usually disagree strongly on many point, be it drugs, AA, or promoters, or what our scene should be. My gripe was not with you, but with the subject of scamming, which you added your .02 worth, which I added mine, and others added theirs. Got rather messy as these things go. But the sea is much clamer now IMO. > >And I would not expect you to. You have seen enough of my statements and >opinions to draw an opinion of me. If I had to talk to every person in >the world with whom I disagreed with strongly about something, I wouldn't >have a whole heck of a lot of time to live my life. Many politicians, >the DMV, every wacko on daytime t.v., etc. Yup there sure are a lot of >people I disagree with. And by your logic it would be DISRESPECTFUL not to >talk to each and every one of them face-to-face before I formed or >expressed an opinion, my personal experience and/or their actions and words >nonwithstanding. Now, if given the opportunity to speak with the person >and the other party was to turn down that opportunity if even the >remotest chance that something productive would come out of it, *THAT* >would be disrespectful. I say you can form an opinion, but to make accusations about them from said opinion is irresponsible. There is a difference between opinion, libel, and slander. There is plenty of legal precedent for this idea. > >I would invite you to consider your thinking in this matter. The way I >see it, if we choose my approach neither one of us are wrong. If we >choose your method then: > >a) Plan on spending a lot less time with the family, cause your > gonna be talking with people you disagree with I have been able to manage both. Since I have little time for partying, I have plenty of time for mind expaning debate, thought, discussions, whatever. I prefer the human element (when Apple allows...workin' fo' da mastah, night & day...). Discourse and argument are the stuff of life. I have learned much and have so much more to learn from humanity. My method is as valid as yours. Maybe it is for those who have a time allotment similar to mine than yours perhaps. > >b) You would be just as guilty as I, and hey, I didn't choose that paradigm. Since you are versed and like e-mail, and I can use same said medium, there is little chance of mischaracterization IMO. We can and have communicated via the medium. We have both outstreched our hands and talked before. I classified your speech as whining, but that was for the moment. That does not make you a whiner altogether. One can whine and not be a whiner, one can be provocative and not be a provocatuer, one can be agressive and passive. I have drawn no conclusions about you other than human really. The rest is my perception of your tirades, commentary, etc. I actually enjoy seeing the result of what you say. If nothing else, it certainly does entertain. > >> I know Adder didn't call Martin's parties a scam. I know the orignal >> poster was trying to be provocative. Adder was just adding his two cents, >> with the same antagonism and vitriol he usually does. > >Well by your reasoning it would seem that we have something in common. Thank you sir! I appreciate the compliment! > > >> To the original poster, try something new. Try RESPECT sometime. You got >> a problem, take it to the source, then, if you could, let us know the >> result of your ACTION. Make yourself known to Martin and address your >> problems with him before you get on the list and talk noise. The > >I suggest you take your own advice. I have, I know Martin, and have talked with him about many subjects/things. He has come to my defense on certain things, and I have come to his. I respect those who respect others. I live it and walk it. Get to know me better (if you dare), and you too will know this truth. Sometimes the virtual world sux. > >> information you would then provide will be of some value to all, and would >> probably be of some value to Martin as well. I also know Martin will >> address your concerns, even though he may not know you from Adam. Of >> course, he doesn't have to say or prove anything to anybody. The man has > >Again we have "bring your concerns to the table and they will be >addressed" followed by "but he doesn't have to answer anything." Once again. You can ask. Nothing is stopping you from doing that. Your real concern is will you get a reply. That is between you and Martin. You would always be welcome to tell us the outcome of said communication, if attempted. > > >> DONE his job! (he has brought more happiness, and more new people in the >> scene, and made sure so many could pay rent, it's not funny. He has help >> raise tens of thousands of dollars for a friend, and helped keep this scene >> alive with music. There's really only one question to ask yourself, >> namely, "What have *I* done?"). > >You paint the picture of an altruist. My understanding is that in this >regard we are discussing a person that is making a living off of members >of the "community." I am not saying this is a bad thing. However, like so >many other businessmen out there, it would appear to paraphrase Geoff has >that he is charging "what the market will bear." Just another person out >there trying to make a living. Nothing wrong with that at all. Also, charity >contributions like you mention above should not go unnoticed, and is >exactly the type of information I have been attempting to discover. A little research goes a long way. All one need do is ask, or at least seek. That was the point of my commentary. > >> PLUR? Just another slogan for people to use when the tenents of said >> psuedophilisophy cannot be adhered to even slightly. talk about >> commercial, even the Levi's site uses this term now. Now THAT'S >> commercial. (IMHO - A captialist company like Levi's, inherently, cannot >> subscribe to PLUR, since profit in our system requires the subjugation and >> exploitation of people. Mostly, people of color). Don't talk about it, >> just do it! > >Hey, since you just went off on a totally unrelated racial tangent: > >Statistically, as a whole, people of color make less money then >anglo-americans. Correct. > >Since they make less money, less people of color will have the financial >ability to go to a party as the prices scale up. Correct. Most of us can't even go and see the hip-hop stars. Especially here in SF. All one usually sees, on many occasions, is a sea of white. But then again, guess who is buyin hip-hop is disproportinate numbers? Many shows in SF are quite mixed though, but prohibitive ticket prices keep the number of brown in the house down. > >Wouldn't this mean that by exclusionary pricing that the promoters of a >party were engaging in discrimination by economics? Oh yes, I do agree! However, no real attempt has been made to make the minority community aware of the dance culture here. I mean Ameba, for example, is in Upper Haight, not the Fillmore or Hunter's Point. Most parties are thrown in the city, and not the outlying areas, where there are ample minorities (crime nothwithstanding, this is still a fact). So I think it is many factors. I think that there is another section of the dance community that has done a goo djob of infusing brown, and that is the acid jazz & jungle movements here in SF. > >Sound silly? > > >> PLUR? A term that reduces the complex problems of a diverse society to a >> simple minded acronym. > >Look out John, I'm agreeing with you on something! This would not be the first time Adder!!!! :) > >> 3 - Intimidating? Thank you. I do not try, but I like the characteristic >> usually saved for people like the Great Minister Louis Farrakhan, Malcolm >> X, Martin Luther King, my Grandmother, my Father, Miles Davis, Angela >> Davis, Bell Hooks, Alice Walker, and any other person of African descent >> who dares to speak his/her mind. I could only aspire to the aforementioned >> greatness and will, epsecially in the face of this place, this United >> States of America. > >Ahh yes "Great Minister Louis Farrakhan" Doesn't like Jews much does he? >Hey I seem to remember someone else that didn't like Jews too much >either.. Seems that he killed several million of them... oh well nevermind... > > Black Adder Being a Jew myself, I do find him refreshing in many ways. His anti-Zionist tactics are worrisome, but I do agree with much of what he says, sans the scapegoating. He is a very strong African man here in America who will not shrink or shirk his responsibility to his people. The whole of congress is afraid of this man because he would, if given the opportunity, tell the truth about this country and what evils it has done to the people fo color around the world. They dare NOT bring him forth, for he surely will shine light on this country's sordid dank backroom doings. He also talk of his Ethiopian Jewish brothers, who are being persecuted in Israel. He talks of the Great Prophet Moses, and Jesus (both jews), and their contributions, words and sayings, and uses same to hammer home brotherhood, respect, loyalty, self-worth, and responsibility for one's actions. Once again, I do not agree with him totally, but I have read his writings, talked to his people (I have access to some levels others might not have), and understand where he is going, without the predjudiced filter of the media. A media who is biased against anything black and strong. As for comparing him to Hitler. Farrakhan has caused no person to be killed or beaten, EVER. No Black Muslim has ever killed any of my Jewish bretheren, or attempted same. They are unarmed, using the mind as their weapon. For us, be it African or Jew, there will ALWAYS be something the world does not like. Such is the road of the semetic peoples of the world. This too shall pass. The Rihgt Minister John S. Lee is stepping down now... Peace out Adder, John From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 19:59:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id TAA12645; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 19:59:55 -0700 Received: from dns2.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA12639; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 19:59:52 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns2.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA00123 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 19:59:54 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby.vip.best.com (tgrigsby.vip.best.com [205.149.169.221]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA19620 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 19:56:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 19:56:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199604080256.TAA19620@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: DING! End of round 9 in the JSL+GW vs. BA+Nancy championship flame! X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Ladies and gentlemen, I have a request. Could the folks currently engaged in the "Gathering Scam" thread please take further responses offline? Perhaps I'm the only one that's getting a little weary of the negativity, but I doubt it. I've dutifully read or at least scanned the various messages. It started off interesting, but at this point I see very little new information being communicated, and I'm not surprised at all at the rise in frustration and even name-calling that has ensued now that this thread has come full circle several times with no further progress. I've really enjoyed e-conversing in the past with each of the individuals involved in this thread. I've come to like and respect each of you, and I'd hate to see this argument (no longer a discussion) continue to the point where really hard feelings develop. You are each nice, intelligent people, but on this topic you've really come to verbal blows. So, again, please take the negativity offline. And if you do continue the argument offline, please try to be respectful and informative for each other's sake, ok? Love and a huge v-hug to each of you, S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 20:24:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA14466; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:24:27 -0700 Received: from tuna.hooked.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA14443; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:24:21 -0700 Received: (from moonpup@localhost) by tuna.hooked.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA22269; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:24:23 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:24:23 -0700 From: Milton Cecil Message-Id: <199604080324.UAA22269@tuna.hooked.net> To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: please privatize the gathering posts!!! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I would like to also request that the gathering e-mails become private between the war-ing parties.......I am sick to death of seeing this vicious cycle continue.........PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE......have some fucking respect.......moonpup.... ...my respect for all involved is wearing very thin.......opinions are encouraged...........but futile bantering to explain the explanation of the explanation is just plain overkill....cut the shit......go ahead......flame me for being so damn opinionated........but at least a flaming of me means we will have moved on....... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 20:49:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA16492; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:49:13 -0700 Received: from netcom18.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA16477; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:49:09 -0700 Received: from DialupEudora by netcom18.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id UAA28991; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:49:08 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:49:08 -0700 X-Sender: jsl@localhost Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: jsl@netcom.com (John S. Lee) Subject: Communication..good + bad = all good! Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I wish many of you would at least understand some of the dynamic of the list. For years we have had good times and bad. For years there has been an ebb & flow of this list. In the end, there are usually no hard feelings, really. I have found the folx on this list, if nothing else, genuinely concerned with our little soicety we have formed here online as well as the larger dance community. Moreso, how this society is reflective of the one around us, and how it influences same. I have seen the list degenrate worse than it is now, with me being just one of the provocatuers in the upheaval. The one thing I have noticed is the capability of each of us to get over it and move on. This happens most if not all of the time. (It's about Respect). What I don't like is the constant "Hey. Let's keep it positive..." movement. If we are a family, then like any family we will bicker. If we are a unified family, on the lookout for each other, then we will forgive each other of our idiosyncrasies and faults. Eventually, we all come together in the end, please try to remeber that. I know may of you dislike my virtriol and commentary. I know I come off as stubborn, antagonistic, provocative, name-caller, whatever. But remember also, I am usally silent, except when certain issues are raised. As always, I will be out of your hair soon. I love this list for many things. I love it that people can argue like enemies, but in the very end, a "peace out" or "peace" or "hugz" or "love" or "kisses" is the final retort. Sometimes it cannot just happen so quickly and needs a thorough hashing out. Yes, It would be better to do these things privately, but really, what is one to do when a public accusation is made?, who really has the last word, and what should it be? My last commentary to Adder was honestly concilliatory in tone. And that is how I meant it. There was the usual sarcasm at points, but in the end it was all about peace and maybe reaching an understanding to disagree. Could it have been accomplished off the list? Surely, but then WHY do we have a list in the first place if not for public discourse of issues. AS in real life, it can get down to "nyah, nyah, na na na!" but it does get turned around. Just go with it. (It's about Unity) There is really no need to read every thread. You see the subject, you can kill it or skip it. You see the author, you can do the same. You are not obligated to reply to every thing, much less read it. As I often do, I would mildly suggest excersizing some discretion. If you see a thread blowing up into madness, stay away from it. Usually as it becomes overly personal, it will end up private. It always does. Be patient, would be my other mild suggestion. If anything the list is organic, and moves at it's own pace. (It's about Peace) Remeber we are a family and arguments shouldbe able to be worked out in public AND in private. The real trick is when to do which. This so-called, flame war, was so minor as to be trivial in the overall history of this list. I would hope that this list NEVER boils down to a strict positivity, since that is NOT the real world. I would hope that things never get to a point of just one view and one way of saying or doing things. I hope it remains as alive and vibrant as it always was/is. With many views, and many counter-views. Over the years it seems these things start, but never seem to end. I would remind some of you that there have been times when things have taken weeks to hash through before going private. Now we see things being solved or going private in days. Not a bad progression. That just means that the level of communication has gotten so well refined or perhaps, even better, we've gotten to know each other so much better as to resolve things in a much more expeditious fashion. Whatever the reason, it is far better now than in the past.(It's about Love) So I would say to the nayayers of percieved negative commentary, if you don't like it, you can skip it. Telling the more vocal group of us to tone it down, or take it private, just becuase you do not wish to excersize discretion in what you read, is tantamount to parents letting the congress take responsibility for the activities of their family (via rating, v-chips, etc.). I know the stuff gets old quick, but blink your eyes, and it's over before it was ever started. Positivity is nice, and all good. But life is about taking the good with the bad and learning from it. This list is an good mechanism for learning. My credo is: "If I don't like it, say something about it. Better yet DO something about it! If it is of little concern, there is little need to reply. If it is of no concern, there is little need to read." (NOTE: This MAY sound negative, but I DON'T read messages with PLUR in the title. If you want to start a coup against me, as if I am even that important which I am not, make tPLUR the subject matter, and you're guaranteed I will be clueless. Since I never, ever read those messages!) I could go on about the sickly sweet positive messages, but there has been enough rain for one day. My brothers and sisters, I will check you ALL out later. Right now it's time for a Newcastle, a baked potato, and greenery. The REAL stuff of life. Live long, have fun, & much peace, I'm REALLY done, John P.S. Unless otherwise stated, all is IMO. Now will you guys stop all the "take it to private" messages. It's really getting tedious ;). Peace... From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 20:54:15 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id UAA17108; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:54:15 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA17101; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:54:13 -0700 Received: from (sequoia1@sac-ca5-14.ix.netcom.com [199.35.220.174]) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA01225 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:50:53 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 20:50:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199604080350.UAA01225@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: sequoia1@ix.netcom.com (Chris Chervin ) Subject: Help--A question of discrimination. To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hey all, I've run into a bummer of a situation. Just recently I was given an offer and accepted a seasonal job at Donner Memorial State Park. The interview and the offer were both over the phone last month. Some forms to fill out were sent to me along with rules on uniform and GROOMING standards. The grooming standards is for males and stated that my hair could not go past my collar, could not be in a pony tail or braided, ect. I have not checked on the female grooming standards (plan to go downtown tommorrow and look it up) but I don't think that they would be required to have short hair. Since I've been hired if they tell me I must cut my hair to keep the job would this be a case of discrimination according to sex? Not that I could afford a lawyer. My biggest problem is I want to make a career in parks and recreation. I may have to make a sacrifice and cut my hair to gain something I want. I can't express the ammount of frustration and anger this situation gives me. Any ideas, suggestions, knowledge? Thanks everyone. love chris From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 21:37:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA21032; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:37:43 -0700 Received: from svpal.org by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA21022; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:37:38 -0700 Received: by svpal.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #4) id m0u68hy-000DA1C; Sun, 7 Apr 96 21:37 PDT Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:37:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Leichardt Subject: sunset? To: everyone! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk is there a sunset next weekend? curiously, tom From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 21:46:49 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id VAA21598; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:46:49 -0700 Received: from moon.sirius.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id VAA21591; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:46:46 -0700 Received: from [205.134.228.51] (ppp051-sf2.sirius.com [205.134.228.51]) by moon.sirius.com (8.6.12/8.6.9p) with SMTP id VAA27638; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:46:39 -0700 X-Sender: sddpw@pop.sirius.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:47:32 -0700 To: sequoia1@ix.netcom.com (Chris Chervin ), sfraves@hyperreal.com From: sddpw@sirius.com (Shimako-Dominguez Department of Public Works) Subject: A question of discrimination(Non-Rave). Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Not that I am a lawyer, but this is how I understand the situation. Employers have a right to enforce dress codes as long as they are reasonably related to the "business purpose" and so long as it is not a guise for outright discrimination. Here, it is not something which you could not "help" - like saying that you have to be a certain height. The government is saying, whether you're a boy or girl, does not matter to us, we just want you to look a certain way. Not that I agree with any of this, but I think this is the current state of the law. I know that a couple of years ago San Francisco was trying to pass a "look discrimination" ordinance - like you couldn't deny someone housing/employment just cause they had long hair/short hair/no hair, piercings, etc. I don't think it ever passed. Now I know this is getting long, but in closing I just wanted to add that I have had a male friend who have worked for NPS before, and I thought they he had long hair at the time. Just a random memory, can't rely on it and I've lost touch with him. Otherwise I would have called him. Sorry to hear about this bogusness. My final thought is that maybe you should call and ask how strictly they enforce these "grooming" standards. Some federal regulations are not followed the same in all places. A National Park in Georgia, for example, might very well stick to the book, while your chances of them being a little lax in California are much greater. Would like to know how it all works out for you. Which I hope is the best. peace... arkay >Hey all, > >I've run into a bummer of a situation. Just recently I was given an >offer and accepted a seasonal job at Donner Memorial State Park. The >interview and the offer were both over the phone last month. Some >forms to fill out were sent to me along with rules on uniform and >GROOMING standards. The grooming standards is for males and stated that >my hair could not go past my collar, could not be in a pony tail or >braided, ect. I have not checked on the female grooming standards >(plan to go downtown tommorrow and look it up) but I don't think that >they would be required to have short hair. > >Since I've been hired if they tell me I must cut my hair to keep the >job would this be a case of discrimination according to sex? Not that >I could afford a lawyer. >My biggest problem is I want to make a career in parks and recreation. >I may have to make a sacrifice and cut my hair to gain something I >want. I can't express the ammount of frustration and anger this >situation gives me. Any ideas, suggestions, knowledge? Thanks >everyone. > >love chris From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 22:03:41 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA22840; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:03:41 -0700 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA22835; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:03:38 -0700 Received: from [153.37.82.81] (pool017.Max3.Santa-Clara.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.82.81]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA14066; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:01:37 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:03:19 +0200 To: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) From: exodus@earthlink.net (Austin) Subject: Re: Tribal Funk & Good Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk SDream, your post about Tribal sounds wildly familliar (to mine :) ) Did ya happen to see a guy up front w/ TP stickin' out a his ears? ME >One bad thing: This is the first rave I've been to where a fight broke out= From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 22:12:25 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA23380; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:12:25 -0700 Received: from isis.source.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA23368; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:12:19 -0700 Received: by isis.source.net (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI.AUTO) for sfraves@hyperreal.com id WAA01152; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:09:40 -0700 From: "anne petrie" Message-Id: <9604072209.ZM1150@isis.source.net> Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:09:30 -0700 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.2 10apr95 MediaMail) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: What's the Bigger Picture? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello All, Forgive me if this sounds "preachy" . . . don't worry, it's pretty short! I feel as though we (as a group) may be getting a little too critical lately. IMO, sometimes it is good to take a step back and let your eyes focus on the larger picture. One of the things that attracted me to raving, was the lack of "stars". Raving, to me, involves developing a creative community space with other people . . . dancers, djs, promoters even security guards:) If we want to be a community in resonance, we must attempt to keep ourselves balanced. IMO, we need to avoid the traditional "rock & roll concert positioning" . . . what I mean is that IMO we need to avoid putting a particular person or group on a pedestal (or conversely, on the proverbial chopping block). I believe that this "positioning" can have a negative effect on the raving community because it can degenerate into merely audience and performer, static object and passive observer. We're all equal participants in the community, whether we realize it or not . . . hugs or eye contact or a great smile can influence a person just as much as a DJ's music or a promoter's prices. To end this little preach session, I'm going to quote Howard Thurman: "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." On another note, a BIG round of applause to the gang at the "Other Organic" . . . thanks, I had a great evening full of dancing and communication! It was definately worth the five hour drive! regards, -- Anne Petrie 3rd Wave Solutions E-mail: anne@3ws.com Remember, if you breathe and persist anything is possible. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 22:29:40 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id WAA24591; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:29:40 -0700 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA24583; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:29:37 -0700 Received: from [153.37.82.81] (pool025.Max3.Santa-Clara.CA.DYNIP.ALTER.NET [153.37.82.89]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA16915 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:28:03 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:29:23 +0200 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: exodus@earthlink.net (Austin) Subject: Re: Tribal Funk & Good Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk SDream, your post about Tribal sounds wildly familliar (to mine :) ) Did ya happen to see a guy up front w/ TP stickin' out a his ears? ME >One bad thing: This is the first rave I've been to where a fight broke out= From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 23:04:55 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA27124; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:04:55 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA27119; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:04:50 -0700 Received: from [128.32.205.214] (u2w45.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.205.214]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA12406; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:04:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:05:02 -0800 To: Arthur Chandler From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: old things Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk If someone threw a "nostalgia" party I would totally go... right now the only place I can dance to old rave music is at frat parties... they always play that "Mortal Kombat" song. -m. > This could be an interesting nostalgia thread. The first rave/techno >music I ever bought was jeno's *Inside the Mind* tape. Then I bought the >Quadrophonia CD. In the early days, when I went into a record store >looking for techno, it was a scavenger hunt. Most stores had no techno and >had never heard of it. The few who had often filed the discs with rap, rock, >new age or "etc." When I found a techno CD I bought it, because there >were so few choices. Now the racks are bulging. I wish more outfits had >www pages with RealAudio so I could taste before I buy. > >On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, michal migurski wrote: > >> Hey everyone. >> >> I pulled out my old copy of "Rave 'til Dawn" the other day, and I realized >> how much I miss that kind of music. :) It took me way back to HS, junior >> year. wow. what a rush. >> >> Does anyone ever spin that old stuff anymore or am I living in a dream world? >> >> -m. >> >> >> 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 >> | -flyers, t-shirts and other diversions- | >> | for that whole body thirst situation | >> | | >> | (- My Portfolio! -) | >> | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | >> | ...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...| >> | -> but patience always helps. <- | >> | | >> | Michal Migurski | >> | (510) 664-1026 | >> 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 >> >> >> 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, t-shirts and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- My Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | ...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...| | -> but patience always helps. <- | | | | Michal Migurski | | (510) 664-1026 | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 23:16:28 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA27740; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:16:28 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA27733; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:16:25 -0700 Received: from [128.32.205.214] (u2w45.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.205.214]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA24020 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:16:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:16:39 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: Tribal Funk & Good Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >SDream, your post about Tribal sounds wildly familliar (to mine :) ) >Did ya happen to see a guy up front w/ TP stickin' out a his ears? ME > >>One bad thing: This is the first rave I've been to where a fight broke out I was also at Tribal Funk... I have to say I agree with the posted reviews. I loved the space (the balcony was nice). The lighting was *great* (especially when they turned the spotlights on the mirror ball and evryone the whole place looked like it was caught in a snowstorm. The music was fantabulous, too. I've never heard that type of mixing between house and breakbeat (and I usually don't like house much, too). I do have some gripes though. This party had *no* vibe. It seemed like everyone was there just to dance and show off a little, and I just didn't feel that comfortable. It was like a little scenester club and I hate that sort of thing. I'm not saying it had a bad vibe, just _no_ vibe. People weren't really "interacting." Also, the guy at the door wouldn't let me take my BIG water bottle in. :P So basically, I spent the whole time on the dance floor (near the middle... I had a black baseball cap, blue jeans and a simple grey t-shirt on) having fun in my little personal space. No one seemed too friendly, except the _one_ girl I met towards the end. Didn't see any familiar faces though. all in all a good party though. Shoulda gone with a big group like everyone else. -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, t-shirts and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- My Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | ...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...| | -> but patience always helps. <- | | | | Michal Migurski | | (510) 664-1026 | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 23:24:05 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA28149; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:24:05 -0700 Received: from elroy.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA28135; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:24:00 -0700 Received: by elroy.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.1) id XAA20523; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:23:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Uncle Noah X-Sender: ez031733@elroy.ucdavis.edu To: Chris Chervin cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Help--A question of discrimination. In-Reply-To: <199604080350.UAA01225@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Not that I am any kind of expert as far as the parks services go, but I have a friend who is/was (haven't seen him in a long while) a ranger at Lake Perris and he had long hair... --+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+--- "Uncle" Noah Apodaca - napodaca@ucdavis.edu Student, Disc Jockey, Resident Advisor "Mr. Kirk, you'd better come down to the station-house." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 23:25:19 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA28236; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:25:19 -0700 Received: from elroy.ucdavis.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA28231; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:25:16 -0700 Received: by elroy.ucdavis.edu (8.7.5/UCD3.5.1) id XAA20556; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:25:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Uncle Noah X-Sender: ez031733@elroy.ucdavis.edu To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Not really BSP... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, since Hannibal Selecta happened to mention me in his post about KDVS I fell that I have to now tell y'all that I got the big diss and was not allowed to return to the airwaves with my show :( Oh well, more time to make mixtapes, I guess... --+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+----+--+--- "Uncle" Noah Apodaca - napodaca@ucdavis.edu Student, Disc Jockey, Resident Advisor "Mr. Kirk, you'd better come down to the station-house." From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Sun Apr 7 23:30:20 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id XAA28689; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:30:20 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id XAA28683; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:30:16 -0700 Received: from [128.32.205.214] (u2w45.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.205.214]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA00972 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:30:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora 2.1.2 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 23:30:29 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: lachim@uclink4.berkeley.edu (michal migurski) Subject: Re: $25.00 party Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, peter fogel wrote: > >> All I know is I've had amazing times at the gatherings I went to. If I >> couldn't afford $25 every 4 months for parties like these, I think I >> might put more energy into making more money. Or I would eat a few >> more ramen noodle dinners to save some money from food. > >But at what point to you say to yourself "Gee self, I sure am getting >sick of ramen noodles? $25, $50, $100 ? At what point do you say enough >is enough, without some justification of the price? I just figure a rave should cost about the same as an equivalent concert. Most *big* concerts are around $20-$25 so I see no problem with promoters charging that kind of money for a party... assuming it has a good vibe good music good lighting and a good space. Basically, if the promoter puts the work into it (s)he can justify charging that kind of money. Hey, speaking of concerts, who's going to that big Tibetan benefit this June? Beasties, Bjork, Fugees... I'm totally going to be there! It seems like something a lot of SFRers would be attracted to... we should agree on a meeting pount or something... yeah, I know I'm thinking way in advance. :) -m. 0=-------B A R K O D E * A R T W O R K S-------=0 | -flyers, t-shirts and other diversions- | | for that whole body thirst situation | | | | (- My Portfolio! -) | | http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lachim/ | | ...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't...| | -> but patience always helps. <- | | | | Michal Migurski | | (510) 664-1026 | 0=---------------------=0=---------------------=0 From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 03:17:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id DAA20104; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 03:17:51 -0700 Received: from donald.uoregon.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id DAA20099; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 03:17:49 -0700 Received: from [128.223.150.155] (cisco-ts13-line6.uoregon.edu) by OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #13764) id <01I3A8M2GLHS8ZDXBI@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU> for sfraves@hyperreal.com; Mon, 08 Apr 1996 03:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 08 Apr 1996 03:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by OREGON.UOREGON.EDU From: drenalin@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (drenalin) Subject: The Gathering To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well I went to both the Gathering and a smaller free party afterwards. I enjoyed the Gathering immensely. I spent the whole time in the "Not so Thumps" room which was actually "Thumpy" the whole time I was there =) The Dr. rocked the house so to speak and the dj before hand (I believe it was Jonah Sharp) was also pretty good. I was impressed that Alex played for almost 3 hours! The setup of the event was really nice and they had very nice visuals and a really nice lazer...nicest one I've seen in a while. All in all it was interesting for me as it was the first party in over two years that I have paid more than $10 or $15 dollars to get into. I didnt feel as though I was not getting my money's worth though...the event was well planned and the staff were friendly and the sound was *amazing*. Seriously one of the best systems I have heard. period. Very clean bass and not too loud that it hurt. The smaller party was fun as well, Moonpup was playing some nice stuff in the dance room and I got to spin the last set in the ambient room along with my friend Michael Anthony. It was nice to see a lot of familiar faces as well. Thanks to the organizers of both events! love drenalin ------------------------------------------------------------------- The Web Works - drenalin@priscilla.ultima.org Hyperreal Staff - drenalin@hyperreal.com New Media Center - drenalin@nmc.uoregon.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------- From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 09:00:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA12573; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:00:16 -0700 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA12561; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:00:13 -0700 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:00:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199604070200.SAA23675@biology.ucsc.edu> X-Sender: ecoman@darwin.ucsc.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: Steve Dennis Subject: Newbie questions / Lurker intro... ReSent-Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:00:11 -0700 (PDT) ReSent-From: Brian Behlendorf ReSent-To: sfraves@hyperreal.com ReSent-Message-ID: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello everyone! I have been hanging here for about two weeks and can say that this is the heavest listserv that I have ever been on! (Good thing it's for raves and not the NRA!) Well as you can see from my address I am a mear two hours from the San Francisco Rave scean, but that's too bad considering some of the distances people come to go to a good rave. While I have never been to a rave, I have always liked "techno music (boy this sounds corny, but true). Hopefuly, now that I have more time to play, and more money to play with this will change. Now for the discription: Hair: Brown, long, curly Hight: 6' Body type: Lenky, skinny, Drawn out, yet somewhat normal Face: Nose, ears (2), Eyes (2), Mouth, goatee, (no percings) Distinguishing features: Scar on left fore arm and BLUE mole! General look: middle class republican (voted green party!) Hobbies: Ridding my bike (yes it is a hobbie defined by the IRS), swimming, Hanging out at the Java House (yes it seems like most of my pay check Goes here) and fixing my car(kind of a hobbie out of need) Favorite album so far: William Orbit's Strange cargo III I have a few questions that maybe someone can answer. Is ther any place in Santa Cruz that has a collection of rave type music/ House type music. I have been to a few stores, but have never been able to find anyhting really that interesting. Mostly just get trapped into the dance party type music and nothing really looks that good. While I'd love to get into Frequency-8 or some of the other shope up north, I have yet to travel the distance. How about mail orded stuff? Is there anyone in the Santa Cruz area (perferably at UCSC) that wouldn't mind letting me tape some stuff? I can also carpool with anyone in the area to head to raves if things work out. Well I think that just about does it for me and the Rave scean. Take care. Steve From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 09:23:43 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA14946; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:23:43 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA14939; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:23:40 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA12189 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:23:32 -0700 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA25823 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:23:37 -0700 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA21377 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:23:33 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:23:32 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Short Gathering Review Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk My, oh my! I think Martin outdid himself with this one! Nancy would have enjoyed it. There was a nice, friendly vibe going that I've never found at a massive before. I saw only a small number of people I know there, but I spent most of my time with my friend Sara, outside. I missed all the brightest moments of the party (really wanted to see Alex Patterson :( ), but the music was good. I can now say that I can identify jungle! I got a kick out of seeing a long line of people, joined by hands in a chain, with Martin at the front, running around through the dance floor with a burning bunch of desert sage! After my friend Dennis and I got in, we saw Martin, and he said he could have gotten us in for free, as Dennis and he know each other...I danced to the first dj giving way to the second, hit the chill area (I thought the sound was too loud), had a little snack, and found Sara, who I met at the last Gathering. We sat outside and talked, got very into each other, and went back inside in time for me to catch the last dance on the floor, and the last of Joe Rice's (was that him?) set in the chill area (or was it the other way around?). Said my final hello/good-byes, bade Sara good-bye & agreed to see her this coming weekend, and returned to the South Bay with Dennis, both of us feeling satisfied from the experience. It was my first non-e rave, and I enjoyed it! The space was better than before, and the decorations, lights, animation, just everything was outstanding! Way to go, Martin & co! Peace, y'all! - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 09:30:45 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA15805; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:30:45 -0700 Received: from netcom22.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id JAA15791; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:30:41 -0700 Received: by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA00702; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:30:40 -0700 From: larryc@netcom.com (Larry Ching) Message-Id: <199604081630.JAA00702@netcom22.netcom.com> Subject: Music Stores Near Santa Cruz To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:30:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 922 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Recently, Steve Dennis asked - > To: sfraves@hyperreal.com > From: Steve Dennis > Subject: Newbie questions / Lurker intro... >.... > I have a few questions that maybe someone can answer. Is ther any place in > Santa Cruz that has a collection of rave type music/ House type music. Well , there's a store in San Jose ( still closer than San Fran ) called Solid Grooves. To get there , drive over the mountains on HW880. At the Hw280 interchange, take HW280 South. Stay in the right hand lane , because the very next exit off of HW280 is the one for Bascom Ave. Take the Bascom Ave. exit, and do the left hand turns per the signs to get to Bascom Ave. At Bascom , make a right hand turn and stay in the right lane. After two intersections is the store , between the Mexican restaurant and the Pink Poodle strip joint. Don't forget to bring your headphones! Larry Ching / larryc@netcom.com From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 09:40:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id JAA16925; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:40:54 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA16916; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:40:49 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA12824 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:40:37 -0700 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA27215; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:40:41 -0700 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA24549; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:40:38 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:40:36 -0800 To: Kristofer Ananda Carrison From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: What is house dancing? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > I guess I'm wondering what other people think of circle >dancers, and, if they can be considered house dancers. > >Confused about this, >Krishna My impression is that the circle dancing is a leftover of the horrible break-dancing era, and that those who circle dance are just showing off their moves. If there's a more honorable motive for it, I'd like to know... Peace, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 10:06:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA19560; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:06:48 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA19547; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:06:45 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA13982 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:06:37 -0700 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA00212; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:06:39 -0700 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA29240; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:56:38 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:56:37 -0800 To: Kristofer Ananda Carrison From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: Wow, Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Don't worry, friend! That Gathering thread drew lots of fire from all directions. I don't think it's anything personal, just lots of venting. Last time I checked, everyone here still loved and respected each other. I don't think anything has changed :) Peace, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 10:25:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA21344; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:25:07 -0700 Received: from lazlo.steam.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA21336; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:25:03 -0700 Received: from precipice.v-site.net (precipice.v-site.net [204.188.120.23]) by lazlo.steam.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA23269 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:32:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id KAA14960; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:22:38 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:22:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199604081722.KAA14960@precipice.v-site.net> X-Sender: geoffw2@v-site.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: blkadder@value.net From: geoffw@cybertribe.com (Geoff White) Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam (Conclusion) Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Geoff White wrote: > >> Have you read Martin's breakdown in the archives? > >Yes. And I think it was really nice of him to do so. But we are not >dealing with a static issue. A) Production costs vary from party to >party, and B) The prices went *up* > So what are you saying here? Should every promoter post their balence sheet after each party if they charge above $15, and as I have said there have been $25 parties thrown by just about every major promoter since 1992. > >> >No, actually the issue has *NEVER* been hashed out. It had faded away, >> >like so many other threads. If it had ever been resolved, it would not be an >> >issue now. >> >> >> It has been hashed out many times you just seem to have your point of view >> and want to stick to it, that is fine but don't get upset if people tend to >> think of you as a whiner because of it. > >Geoff, again, I did not start this thread(this time around.) I was >voicing my agreement with Nancy. The issue has been "hashed out" to you >because it was never an issue in the first place to you. There was never >any "resolution" of this issue in my mind, and in at least one other >person it would seem. > Martin was on the Sunset boat party yester (he, like I and about 150 others each paid $20 to the Sunset crew for an absolutely WONDERFUL party, hmm no lasers, no fog machines, no food, cash bar, where does the money go :) He says that he never received any mail form you, (quite possible since Martin's computer is shared by several in his house hold and their e-mail is often messed up). I told him that some people were still questioning where the money goes for his parties, he seemed a little exasperated nad wanted to know how to get on sfraves so maybe you will hear from him soon. >Regarding whining, comments like this are really non-condusive to >discussions. And honestly, I am secure enough in who I am not to be >too concerned if you view me as a whiner because I do not share your >views and am willing to express my own. > > Black Adder If you want, come to the next gathering and I will pay your way and personnally introduce you to Martin, then you can ask him where the money goes. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 10:31:16 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA22759; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:31:16 -0700 Received: from lint.cisco.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA22750; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:31:12 -0700 Received: from dhcp-h21-209.cisco.com (dhcp-h21-209.cisco.com [171.68.192.209]) by lint.cisco.com (8.6.10/CISCO.SERVER.1.1) with SMTP id KAA04348 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:29:24 -0700 Received: by dhcp-h21-209.cisco.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BB2535.D3D3FB40@dhcp-h21-209.cisco.com>; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:26:20 -0700 Message-ID: <01BB2535.D3D3FB40@dhcp-h21-209.cisco.com> From: Mohan Veloo To: "'sfraves@hyperreal.com'" Subject: FW: WICKED! Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:26:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk To echo Sean's sentiments... WICKED TOTALLY ROCKED!!!!.. i heard some of = the most amazing HOUSE and mixing!! And thankfully the King Street = garage wasn't as crowded as it usually is, so i did not suffocate...as i = usually do there. This must have been one of the best all time parties I = have attended!! Mohan ---------- From: Freak Zone[SMTP:freakz@ultima.org] Sent: Sunday, April 07, 1996 3:56 PM To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: WICKED! Wicked rocked the house once again! WOW! -Sean _____________________________________ F R E A K Z O N E ! "House music all night long..." (415) 227-7421 _____________________________________ From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 10:38:03 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA23549; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:38:03 -0700 Received: from ucscb.UCSC.EDU by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA23539; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:38:00 -0700 Received: by ucscb.UCSC.EDU (5.65/1.34) id AA04096; Mon, 8 Apr 96 10:35:13 -0700 From: swoosh@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (John Elias Darrow) Message-Id: <9604081735.AA04096@ucscb.UCSC.EDU> Subject: The Gathering To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:35:10 -0700 (MDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3119 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk I paid $20 of my hard earned money for the Gathering and each and every penny brought some of the finest moments of experience I've ever had. I had an amazing time. and some of you may be saying, yeah, but, those amazing experiences are there every other weekend, and they just lose their fantastic quality after a while. Well, after four years I'm still impressed that I can go out and still manage to experience something entirely new and profound in that same old routine. Every party just gets better and better as you learn to put more of yourself into it and then learn to notice how all your energy gets returned a thousandfold. So I just let myself go to a new extreme and the results left me dumbfounded. and now for logistics: The sound system was set up so that the DJ was in the center of the room and the speakers were at the corners pointed toward the center. I remember this setup from a Basics a few years ago but haven't seen it since. I thought it was a nice twist on the structure of the crowd... usually there is a small crowd in front of the DJ and then it gets less crowded as you move back, finally into chaos and sitting people at the other end. But this setup spread those concentrations of energy out into rings around the center, and it was neat to see how people reacted to that. It did make a difference. and the sound itself, as already mentioned, was really nice. Not too loud, but definately bone resonating and well dispersed through the room. I really liked DJ Dans set... his style has been changing in a good way. The not so thumps sound was also really nice. The multicolored laser was pretty, but combined with that tracing effect it made me miss a simple big green laser. The tracers scatter the beam so much it loses it's singular intensity, and then with the multicolored beams it begins to look like just another light effect. oh well, it's still a very impressive lighting effect. Lighting otherwise was nice, simple and following modes in the music. The people... quite a few of them, I really couldn't guess how many, more than a thousand, less than a million... but most all were really into it and at times really going wild. It was an honest and powerful wildly moving vibe, from my own humble perspective. The thing about massives that I really like are those moments when you finally let go of your judgements, and the vibe just locks itself into place and you become one with everything... It's harder at the larger parties but more fulfilling. All that energy just focuses itself through you and when it involves all those thousands of people, it can be so extremely moving. This night had more than its fair share of that for me, hence my empassioned praise. It's amazing how easily we get caught up in criticism and denial. anyway... The end had the room still packed full of people throwing their arms in the air, facing the center, to the last song. It was a good end to a good night. With that, I wish all of you a good week and leave you with the title of an 808 State song from 1988... Let yourself go. -john. http://he.net/~swoosh From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 10:38:14 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA23591; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:38:14 -0700 Received: from tapeheads.ednet.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA23579; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:38:11 -0700 Received: from [198.97.35.13] by tapeheads.ednet.net with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.0); Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:42:12 +0000 X-Sender: ambient@netcom23.netcom.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:40:36 -0600 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: ambient@netcom.com (Joe Rice) Subject: Re: Short Gathering Review Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk At 11:23 AM 4/8/96, Eric P. Peterson wrote: >My, oh my! I think Martin outdid himself with this one! Nancy would have >enjoyed it. There was a nice, friendly vibe going that I've never found at >a massive before. I saw only a small number of people I know there, but I >spent most of my time with my friend Sara, outside. I missed all the >brightest moments of the party (really wanted to see Alex Patterson :( ), >but the music was good. I can now say that I can identify jungle! I got a >kick out of seeing a long line of people, joined by hands in a chain, with >Martin at the front, running around through the dance floor with a burning >bunch of desert sage! After my friend Dennis and I got in, we saw Martin, >and he said he could have gotten us in for free, as Dennis and he know each >other...I danced to the first dj giving way to the second, hit the chill >area (I thought the sound was too loud), had a little snack, and found >Sara, who I met at the last Gathering. We sat outside and talked, got very >into each other, and went back inside in time for me to catch the last >dance on the floor, and the last of Joe Rice's (was that him?) set in the >chill area (or was it the other way around?). Yeah, that was me. It was nice to play on such a killer sound system in an ambient (though not very ambient for most of the night) room and everyone there was into it. The party was pretty good overall. Perhaps a tad overpromoted, but a pretty good vibe nonetheless. There was free water, as promised, and bottles were only $1. I liked how the main room DJ booth was set up in the middle of the dance floor. I didn't really get into most of the music I heard, but Alex and Jonah played some interesting stuff in the ambient room and Darkhorse played a great set. The Sunset boat party was great - an ideal group of people. Wish I hadn't been so tired. Joe (:Joe Rice:____________:joe@psychoactive.com:____________:ambient@netcom.com:) (:"Oh, the turntables are his instruments!" :) (:"But I can't tell what sound that record is making!" :) (:"I know! He puts them on and off and you never know! I've never seen :) (: anything like it!" :) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 10:48:53 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA24785; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:48:53 -0700 Received: from alink-gw.apple.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA24779; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:48:49 -0700 Received: from federal-excess.apple.com by alink-gw.apple.com with SMTP (921113.SGI.UNSUPPORTED_PROTOTYPE/7-Oct-1993-eef) id AA20334; Mon, 8 Apr 96 10:48:16 -0700 for sfraves@hyperreal.com Received: from gateway.apple.com (in-out.eqm.apple.com [17.130.8.39]) by federal-excess.apple.com (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA03425 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:46:57 -0700 Message-Id: Date: 8 Apr 1996 10:47:01 -0800 From: "Jason Green*" Subject: LAME POSTS To: "sfraves" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.3 b1 d5 Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Hello... I am a newcomer to sfraves, but have been in the scene for about 3 years now. For the longest time, I heard so much good stuff about sfraves, but now that I am on, I am a little disappointed. When I came back to work this Monday morning, I had 145 posts - 95% of which were either bitch sessions (regarding The Gathering mainly - sacrilegious in my opinion), or lame bits of information that EVERYBODY does not need to know. It took me over an hour just to weed through all the bullshit. Now don't get me wrong, there was interesting information on there (MDMA info, etc.), but for crying out loud... IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY, DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. The scene has always been about positivity, love, friendship, music, and togetherness - not about complaining, bitching, slashing, or singling people/parties out. LUCKY CHARMS IS ONE THING, BUT THE GATHERING?!?!?! COME ON!!! If you have something negative to say, keep it to yourself - there is no need to share it with everybody on sfraves. Thank you.... Peace, love + positivity, Jason Green (Jason_Green*@quickmail.apple.com) From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 10:52:54 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id KAA25133; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:52:54 -0700 Received: from precipice.v-site.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA25121; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:52:50 -0700 Received: from ecotopia by precipice.v-site.net (8.6.10/SM-8.6.4) id KAA15032; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:51:52 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:51:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199604081751.KAA15032@precipice.v-site.net> X-Sender: geoffw2@v-site.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: volt@best.com From: geoffw@cybertribe.com (Geoff White) Subject: Re: Flames, PLUR & Community Issues Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk > >Anyways, I hope that whole thread dies real soon, or at least picks up a >positive tone. A big, warm, fluffy hug to all my brothers and sisters on >the list! Keep PLUR alive! PLUR IS NOT alive here. If someone saw a person in your family (like your sister) and implied that they were doing something that the society of your immediate group of friends considered to defaming to her charecter you would defend her, most likely by charecter reference, or other such actions, if afer several iterations of this the person says "I'm not convinced, she's still a slut/bitch/skeezer/whatever" To me, this is the height of disrespect, it shows no Unity because the person has already made up their mind they cannot see the forest for the trees Love and Peace, well what can I say, Martin came through when people were paralyzed in horrible accidents, when people were killed in motorcycle accidents, where people were thrown in jail for promoting freedom of consciousness, most of you don't know fuck about these things all you are focused on is whether the stupid party is worth $25 or not, what about the lives and families of the people who throw the parties?, who risked going to jail (and did go to jail), who wound up sick, injured or dead becaused they LIVED this so called PLUR with their being so much and gave of themselves so much. Malachy, one of martin's former parents still sits in a wheelchair, he doesn't throw parties, he doesn't have a stack of money from the parties that he threw, all he has is the memories and the friendship of his extended family here. For many of us, Martin is family, we don't always condone his actions but he has come through time and time again, and proven his commitment to what you all so readily refer to as Peace Love Unity and Respect BY HIS ACTIONS, NOT SIMPLY BY WORDS. Maybe one day some of you will reach out past this e-mail list and meet some of the people that have been throwing parties here for years anc come to understand, why they continue to do it, in the face of adversity, authority and inconsiderate, naieve and sometimes ignorant opinion. Strong words? Pehapse, but sometimes the scene has fangs, sometimes your motorcycle goes off the road, or the DEA comes to your door and takes your girlfriend away in the middle of the night, or your friend needs an emergency operation and they don't have health insurance and the hospital wants $5000, sometimes you spend your rent money to throw a party and it floops, it's these times (most of you don't know what I'm talking about but some of you do). People like Martin have been there time and time again for people in this community, I honestly can't take someone's blatherings about PLUR seriously in the face of what I have heard on this list yet seen demonstrated by many people off of it. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 11:06:27 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA26452; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:06:27 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA26445; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:06:23 -0700 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA05134; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kirstenc@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) id LAA29272; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:02:47 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:02:45 -0700 (PDT) From: KaySEE Subject: Re: What is house dancing? To: Kristofer Ananda Carrison cc: sfraves In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, Kristofer Ananda Carrison wrote: > As you may remember from my intro I'm doing a video project on > house dancing. Or, at least what I consider to be house dancing. Two > months ago if asked to visually describe what house dancing is, > I would have shown a select few of the most stylish circle dancers. > My fascination with their attitude, ability and creativity is what > led me to become enamored with, and want to become a part of, that > select group. Thus, I started scruitinizing their dancing, mimicking > certain moves and attitude, and eventually got caught up in the > whole ego-based performatitive thing that is circle dancing. > What I've begun to realize is that circle dancers are only a > small group of ravers, and definately not representitive of the raving > community as a whole. So, to call them house dancers is wrong, and > possibly a disservice to the community. Their dancing is visually > beautiful, but hardly better than say, someone who for the first time > in their life has mannaged to break away from their insecurities, enter > into the music, and dance with abandon. Is this what I should show > in my video? At most parties you have people who are beautifully coordinated and can do all the right "moves." Some of these people are circle dancers, others are people with less attitude who really know how to dance. Watching these bodies in motion is beautiful and is a true talent. There is a definite style of dancing at raves that differs from other scenes or cultures. However, there are also those of us who have our talents placed elsewhere and are a bit more "rhytmicly-challenged." At the October Friends and Family I really tuned into how I felt dancing and also I watched closely at how others danced. At the beginning of the night my body felt awkward, the motions I was performing didn't *feel* right, but by the end of the night I had reached a state where everything felt perfect. As I watched others, I realized what a wonderful form of self-expression dancing is. You could tell people who completely let themselves go and danced their hearts out. Even people who couldn't do the right "moves" were beautiful when they danced from their heart. It was the ultimate form of self-expression, and you cold see peoples' personalities and uniqueness from their motions. When I had finally reached a state where my body felt the perfect motion, I know I had reached my true form of self-expression. Sometimes this expression is not as methodic nor trained as those who know how to do the right moves, but it is highly unique and therefore truly beautiful. I know I will never be a very structured, rhthmic dancer, but I also know how it feels when I reach a state where my body is in *MY* own unique motion. To me it is this unique self-expression that defines "rave" dancing. Motion does a body good. I love to move my body in many different ways and feel the pleasure that I can create for myself. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 11:17:10 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA27591; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:17:10 -0700 Received: from relay5.UU.NET by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA27582; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:17:06 -0700 Received: from uucp4.UU.NET by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQakov19692; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 14:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rts2.UUCP by uucp4.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 14:16:49 -0400 Received: from hp700.unrrts.com (hp700.unrrts.com [198.252.162.70]) by rts.unrrts.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA20071 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:57:20 -0700 Received: from localhost (george@localhost) by hp700.unrrts.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA28446 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:01:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199604081801.LAA28446@hp700.unrrts.com> X-Authentication-Warning: hp700.unrrts.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: The Gathering: epilogue Date: Mon, 08 Apr 1996 11:01:25 -0700 From: George Feil Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Well, I've been very amused by all the posts regarding the worthiness of paying $20-25 to attend a Martin event. Here's my review of the event itself: Having difficulty getting the entire entourage of mine to get it together, and having made a pit stop at a friend's cast party for a dance performance, we finally made it there around 12:30. The parking lots were already jammed, so I knew there was a big crowd inside. The security line at the time was moderate (about 5-10 min.), and the guards were quite friendly by that time. Only one ticket seller, though, which caused another delay. Hmmmpf. We finally enter, and are immediately taken up by the vibe. Lots of cool herbal drinks and fruit smoothies, someone giving away fruit at another table. Someone selling shirts. It was like a bazaar outside of a Dead show. The Thump Room was really thumping. Lots of lasers and strobes were completely dazzling the crowd. Almost everyone is moving and grooving to the deejays, who were -- unusually enough -- located right in the middle of the dance floor. The vibe was particularly strong and steady throughout the night. The Not-so-Thump Room was the big surprise. It was like one giant living room party. The deejays were sitting low, with their tables low with them. Lots of trance and ambient flowing here. The chill-out space occupied the rear of the room, with lots of mats, soft chairs, and stuffed animals :) all over the place. After attending The Dec. '95 Gathering, and Vision last February, I felt this was one of the best Martin parties yet. The $20 I and my friends spent was definitely worth it -- even though the party was 1 hour shorter due to the time warp. The only thing really missing was a slightly better water flow at the free water bar (they ran out several times during the evening, causing long waits for a refill). As far as things are concerned, I think that value is in the mind of the consumer. Some people will be content driving in a $10000 Dodge Neon, while others will prefer plunking $19000 down on an Acura Integra. Both types of drivers may (or may not) get a sense of having gotten good value for the car they own, regardless of the price. Kudos to Martin for an all-in-all well organized and executed event. -G From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 11:28:56 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA28768; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:28:56 -0700 Received: from mh1.well.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA28762; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:28:53 -0700 Received: from [153.36.85.103] (Cust39.Max6.Santa-Clara.CA.MS.UU.NET [153.36.85.103]) by mh1.well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA21588 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:28:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199604081828.LAA21588@mh1.well.com> X-Sender: crunch@mail.well.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 10:29:45 +1000 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: crunch@well.com (John Draper) Subject: Gathering/Sunset reviews Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk The Gathering and Sunset review ============================== We showed up kinda late, around 12 mid. There was a small line to get in, but we finally got in, and WOW!! We immediately headed for the "non-thump" room, which was thumping and getting off BIG TIME. Later on, I head for the big room. WOW! The visuals were insane, and they got a multi-color laser system that gave my brain and eyes some real treats while dancing. In talking to Martin, he says that 2400 people showed up, as this is the most crowded I've seen for this great venue. As usual, they had opened up the side doors, letting in that cool fresh air. The music was great, danced a long time, but there were too many breaks on some of the sets. The music was not as loud as it was in the previous times I've been at this venue. It was just about right. Good clean sound. Over in the other non-thump room, some slower funky toons were really getting down.. The rave ended at 7 am, and we headed back to Marin to chill, go hiking later, and eventually headed out to where the boat was waiting for the Sunset boat party. Sunset Boat party ================ I've never seen such a happy and energetic crowd. The boat was incredible, Galen started things off with some really good thumpin house, and I immediately started dancing as everyone else was still getting on board. The boat eventually got underway, as we chugged out over the Bay. The FOG cast an eerie finger out over the Bay. Down in the main room, things were really getting hot until I asked one of the ship people to open the side doors, and things really cooled down. Jon Howard went on after Galen, and did an incredible thumpy funkey set. For some reason, the music didn't seem to be so loud down in the main room. Upstairs, Allan was spinning some of the most bazaar toons I've heard yet. Sorta sounds like a humpback whale getting flushed down the toilet... :-) The boat at this time, was just crossing under the Golden Gate, and laying back looking up at the bottom of the bridge was a real head trip. In the meantime, Solar was on, spinning some great house toons, and everyone was GETTING OFF big time. The music could have been a little louder, but I suppose they had to keep it turned down low for some reason. Anyway, the boat party was much better than I expected, and dancing on a moving boat was really cool. Great party.... The Crunchman From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 11:38:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA29550; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:38:07 -0700 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA29544; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:38:04 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA26788 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:38:01 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA04638 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:34:21 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:34:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199604081834.LAA04638@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: Help--A question of discrimination. X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Chris Chervin wrote: >My biggest problem is I want to make a career in parks and recreation. >I may have to make a sacrifice and cut my hair to gain something I >want. I can't express the ammount of frustration and anger this >situation gives me. Any ideas, suggestions, knowledge? Thanks >everyone. Yeah: lose the attachment to your hair. My hair has been really long (past my shoulders), really short (flat top) and every variation in style you can imagine except bald. What matters is what's under the surface, not what people see on the outside. Cut it. It's just hair. You may find, after you've passed the probation period at your job, that you'll be able to grow it back out with little or no flack. In fact, why not have fun with it? Since it's just hair, and it CAN grow back, get it really butched. Go for something really short on the sides and back, longish on top, and style it straight back with a little gel. Or go for the buzz cut. Then take a picture of it so you can show your buddies and laugh your asses off after you grow your hair back out. Change is good... S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 11:38:34 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA29603; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:38:34 -0700 Received: from mail1.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA29593; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:38:30 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA21063 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:38:12 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA05092 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:34:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:34:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199604081834.LAA05092@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Free party? X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Geoff White wrote: >If you want, come to the next gathering and I will pay your way and personnally >introduce you to Martin, then you can ask him where the money goes. Hey! I want a piece of that action! Um, yeah, I think I'd like to *personally* ask Martin where the heck the money goes -- you'll get me in, right? ;) S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 11:39:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA29662; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:39:01 -0700 Received: from mail1.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA29653; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:38:58 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA21075 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:38:15 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA04666 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:34:22 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:34:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199604081834.LAA04666@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: Tribal Funk & Good X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Folks, I stand corrected. If the fella with the goattee I mentioned is on this list, I read the situation wrong. My apologies, no hard feelings... >>One bad thing: This is the first rave I've been to where a fight broke out. >> Some big burly white guy with a shaved head and a long goattee was >>involved. (snip) >> He was trying to mix it up >>with some folks. I didn't see how things got started, but security >>surrounded him and encouraged him and one other guy very quickly -- and >>rather peacefully, actually -- to exit the building. (snip) > >Actually the guy with the goattee ( I forgot his name but he was promoting >for the Gathering: and does often - some people on this list probable know >who I/you are talking about) was not involved in the fight other than to >break it up. A VERY deranged and Jealous guy (blond and light blue >t-shirt) was being over protective of his so-called girlfriend ( I have >omitted names for their protection and because I know all these people). Yeah I saw that guy too. Obviously I got there after things had already been mostly resolved. I think that guy got escorted out as well. > A >guy was just making conversation with his girl, he got mad and tried to >show off his masculinity buy kickin' his ass. What a man. > Things escallated from there >and security took care of the problem. I know this because I almost got in >a fight with him over dumb shit. Thanks for straightening me out! S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 11:39:13 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA29703; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:39:13 -0700 Received: from mail1.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA29695; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:39:08 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA21071 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:38:14 -0700 Received: from tgrigsby (tgrigsby.us.dhl.com [199.41.137.104]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id LAA05014 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:34:28 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:34:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199604081834.LAA05014@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: tgrigsby@best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: SDream@tgrigsby.com (SDream) Subject: Re: Tribal Funk & Good X-Mailer: Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Michael Migurski wrote: >I do have some gripes though. This party had *no* vibe. It seemed like >everyone was there just to dance and show off a little, and I just didn't >feel that comfortable. It was like a little scenester club and I hate that >sort of thing. I'm not saying it had a bad vibe, just _no_ vibe. People >weren't really "interacting." Hm. It definitely didn't have a big vibe, but I went with 3 other people, and together we did ok, vibe-wise. I rarely go to anything alone -- I take my vibe with me. We met a few people, saw a few familiar faces, but I have to agree, there wasn't a real "close" feeling like there could have been if there'd been more people. In fact, I was at two raves that night and neither one had a big population. I guess everyone was saving it for the Gathering the next night... S From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 11:42:33 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA29952; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:42:33 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA29945; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:42:30 -0700 Received: from (peterbf@sfo-ca18-11.ix.netcom.com [205.184.16.203]) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA27249 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:39:51 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:39:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199604081839.LAA27249@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> From: peterbf@ix.netcom.com (peter fogel) To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 11:43:00 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id LAA00121; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:43:00 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA00111; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:42:57 -0700 Received: from (peterbf@sfo-ca18-11.ix.netcom.com [205.184.16.203]) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA07653 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:41:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 11:41:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199604081841.LAA07653@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> From: peterbf@ix.netcom.com (peter fogel) Subject: gathering review To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk We got there about 1am. There was the usual great sound systems, though alittle too loud in the somewhat of an ambient room. I say somewhat because most of the time the music that I heard there was pretty fast to chill to, but I did hear some nice slower stuff, but had to stay on the outskirts of the room cause it was too loud. In the big room I felt there was a lot of a chaotic energy. People were moving all around, facing different directions. I didn't like having the dj in the middle of the dance floor. Found it a little disorienting at first, and I think it kept people walking around more on all sides of the dj. Near the dj it was several rows deep of people watching the dj. Outside of that, it was grand central station. After sitting a little outside the chill room, feeling on the negative side, watching people go by, thinking that alot of the people there didn't have much of a concept of the spiritual aspect of raving I was feeling tempted to go home. With angela's enthusiasm I decided to give it another try, and as we walked toward the big room, I readjusted my expectations of the party. I decided that I didn't need to have a great vibe with everyone dancing together to have a good time. If it was still too crowded to not be bumped every 10 seconds while dancing, I would stand around like many others and listen to the music and get off on the visuals (which were really good). It was about 4:30 now, and we found a spot not too far from the dj. As I was standing there I noticed it wasn't as crowded, and people seemed more focused on the music. At that point I senced a nice vibe, and decided to make the most of it, and started dancing wild to the fast trance music, trying to send out as much happy love vibes as I could to as many people as I could. From 4:30 on I had a GREAT time. I think it took a while for people, myself included to settle in. Also I think by 4:30 alot of people who probably aren't into raving that much might have left. There was plenty of water, easy to get from the dispensors. Last time I had to pour from the big delivery type water bottles. The visuals were great. Near the end the camra man was up on top of the dj booth encouraging everyone to raise the energy. Then Martin got up there as well giving a lot of encouragement. This was nice, but after a bit it felt alittle mtvish as people were exicitingly waving at the camra. The time I had from 4:30 on helped make up for the previous 3 hours. Looking back at it and after reading a few wicked posts, it seems that wicked might have been the party to got to. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 12:06:07 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA02815; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:06:07 -0700 Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA02757; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:06:02 -0700 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA11455 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kirstenc@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.7.4/8.6.12) id MAA17500; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:04:38 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:04:36 -0700 (PDT) From: KaySEE Subject: Time Warp was Re: The Gathering: epilogue To: sfraves@hyperreal.com In-Reply-To: <199604081801.LAA28446@hp700.unrrts.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Mon, 8 Apr 1996, George Feil wrote: > > friends spent was definitely worth it -- even though the party was 1 > hour shorter due to the time warp. OH MY GAWD!!!! I forgot about Day Light Savings and I did not realize it had occurred until I read this post. I had it written on my calendar, which I obviously forgot to check. That answers why there were so many people already at the library yesterday at exactly 1 p.m. (when it opens), it was actually 2 p.m. And, I came into work an hour late and no one said anything. Duh, I am a total idiot, but I thought I'd share it all with you, so you can have a good laugh. Just think, if I hadn't read this post, I would have continued my day one hour behind!!! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 12:43:30 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id MAA06513; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:43:30 -0700 Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id MAA06507; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:43:27 -0700 Received: from (peterbf@sfo-ca10-07.ix.netcom.com [204.30.64.135]) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA22780 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:41:57 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 12:41:57 -0700 Message-Id: <199604081941.MAA22780@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: peterbf@ix.netcom.com (peter fogel) Subject: music in g.g park To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk After a night of dancing sunday was a great day to hang out in gg park. Upon entering the park by where the roller skaters skate to music there were a bunch of people watching and listening to the funky discoey dance tunes. We got there just as they stopped the music to introduce this new sound system that will be in the park every weekend. Only tapes were being played, but it had a great sound. Anybody know why this rollerskate area can have amplified sound every week? >From my understanding rave parties need permits in other parts of the park. It seems like none is neccessary at this roller skate spot. GG park is a big park. Why can't they accommodate a techno spot? Futher down by the that big green house thing there was this trippy band called Thoth playing under the bridge. They have a spacey middle eastern sound. After they finished I bought their cd then tranced out a bit at the drumming circle at hippy hill before leaving. :) peter From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 13:14:48 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA09285; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:14:48 -0700 Received: from mail1.best.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA09276; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:14:44 -0700 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by mail1.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA29492 for ; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:14:16 -0700 Received: (volt@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA17834; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:10:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:10:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Voltaire Dacanay To: sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: Flames, PLUR & Community Issues In-Reply-To: <199604081751.KAA15032@precipice.v-site.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Wow, that was a long-winded harangue in response to a simple attempt to share my positivity. I regret that I did indeed draw your fire, my intent was not to draw such negativity. Regarding what was said below, however, I can't speak for everyone, but I'll agree that I am probably as naive as you so eagerly point me out to be. I don't know Martin, so I don't pass judgment on him either way. I can't say that I like your blanket generalizations of what amounts to "everyone on this list is a hypocrite" (especially since we've never met), but I respect that you feel that way for whatever reasons you do. What I do know is that PLUR is NOT dead here, I think it still lives in some of us, even if not in you, so I ask that you do not include me in your overgeneralizations where this is concerned. I'm not perfect, but I'm trying to the best of my ability, as I'm sure many on this list are, to live up to the set of ideals based on PLUR. Most of us may not live completely by those standards, but I'd like to think a lot of us are trying. Dismiss it as foolish naivete if you will, but I'd rather go on fooling myself that I can achieve these ideals than to mindlessly submit to the bleak picture of reality that you have painted below. Respectfully, volt *** On Mon, 8 Apr 1996, Geoff White wrote: > > > >Anyways, I hope that whole thread dies real soon, or at least picks up a > >positive tone. A big, warm, fluffy hug to all my brothers and sisters on > >the list! Keep PLUR alive! > > PLUR IS NOT alive here. If someone saw a person in your family (like your > sister) and implied that they were doing something that the society of your > immediate group of friends considered to defaming to her charecter you would > defend her, most likely by charecter reference, or other such actions, if afer > several iterations of this the person says "I'm not convinced, she's still a > slut/bitch/skeezer/whatever" To me, this is the height of disrespect, it shows > no Unity because the person has already made up their mind they cannot see > the forest for the trees Love and Peace, well what can I say, Martin came > through when people were paralyzed in horrible accidents, when people were > killed in motorcycle accidents, where people were thrown in jail for > promoting freedom of consciousness, most of you don't know fuck about these > things all you are focused on is whether the stupid party is worth $25 or > not, what about the lives > and families of the people who throw the parties?, who risked going to jail > (and did go to jail), who wound up sick, injured or dead becaused they LIVED > this so called PLUR with their being so much and gave of themselves so much. > Malachy, one of martin's former parents still sits in a wheelchair, he doesn't > throw parties, he doesn't have a stack of money from the parties that he threw, > all he has is the memories and the friendship of his extended family here. > For many of us, Martin is family, we don't always condone his actions but he > has come > through time and time again, and proven his commitment to what you all so > readily refer to as Peace Love Unity and Respect BY HIS ACTIONS, NOT SIMPLY BY > WORDS. Maybe one day some of you will reach out past this e-mail list and meet > some of the people that have been throwing parties here for years anc come > to understand, why they continue to do it, in the face of adversity, > authority and > inconsiderate, naieve and sometimes ignorant opinion. Strong words? > Pehapse, but > sometimes the scene has fangs, sometimes your motorcycle goes off the road, > or the DEA comes to your door and takes your girlfriend away in the middle of > the night, or your friend needs an emergency operation and they don't have > health insurance and the hospital wants $5000, sometimes you spend your rent > money to throw a party and it floops, it's these times (most of you don't > know what > I'm talking about but some of you do). People like Martin have been there > time and time again for people in this community, I honestly can't take > someone's > blatherings about PLUR seriously in the face of what I have heard on this list > yet seen demonstrated by many people off of it. > From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 13:52:11 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA12541; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:52:11 -0700 Received: from xinet.COM by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA12535; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:52:09 -0700 Received: from DialupEudora by xinet.COM via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) for id NAA00030; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:52:01 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:52:02 -0800 To: sfraves@hyperreal.com From: tony@xinet.COM (Tony Rotundo) Subject: PLURurp! :^) Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Oh, excuse me! Wanted to thank everyone who made it out to the small get together for the Organic On-Line new office space party. It was a fun night, in a great space that will be a new office for Organicians. Unfortunately it won't be used again for parties. It was a *free* party on the fifth floor of an old building in SOMA. The main dance area was long and wide and it never got over crowded, so wasn't too hot. There were big windows at the end that looked out onto the Bay, to the DJ's back, and Moonpup played a great sunrise set. Bryce threw down some elcectic stuff including...Rock Lobster!? Very unique, but definitely not out of line. The party seemed to be sort of unique. There was an interestingly good mix of people. As you can imagine, with Wicked and The Gathering going on, there were a lot of new faces mixed with those that weren't up for the massives. The vibe took a while to get rolling, but it fanned out and managed to keep people smiling. The chill area was nice and broad and cozy and is now a quite reception area between offices. WBL played a GREAT ambient set and I think it was from the chill area that the vibe spread through out the party. Greg and Cindy arranged a beautiful alter. Main room line-up: Phred spun first, followed by I think DJ Forrest, then Bryce and finally Moonpup. One funny note: A young guy walks up to me as I was dancing, with a wig on and these dope pistachio green sued Hush Puppies my friend gave me for my birthday, and asks: "Do you do this for a living?" Looking around, I was like, "Hell, no! I work for a software company in Berekeley. But if you can think of a way to make money off dancing at parties, I'm all ears!" Cheers! Tony P.S. Are there pre-sale tickets to Harmony? Anyone know the details on that? The voice mail doesn't say. From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 13:54:26 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id NAA12831; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:54:26 -0700 Received: from arl-img-7.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id NAA12822; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 13:54:20 -0700 Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA06859; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 16:53:40 -0400 Date: 08 Apr 96 16:52:26 EDT From: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" Subject: Re: What is house dancing? Message-ID: <960408205226_71165.755_GHL128-2@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Krishna asked... > I guess I'm wondering what other people think of circle >dancers, and, if they can be considered house dancers. > >Confused about this, >Krishna Eric said.... My impression is that the circle dancing is a leftover of the horrible break-dancing era, and that those who circle dance are just showing off their moves. If there's a more honorable motive for it, I'd like to know... Hey Eric, come on, there's nothing dishonorable in showing off your moves... I know from personal experience that you like to watch people dance ; ) ... and circle dancing is a chance for people who love to dance to share their stuff, and appreciate each other -- yes, it's originally from street dancing, and it's different than when we dance alone and trance out, or collectively and get that amazing group energy ... but it can be way fun too! I love to watch circle dancers - when they're not too aggressive about overtaking all the good dance space! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 14:22:01 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA16131; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 14:22:01 -0700 Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id OAA16121; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 14:21:44 -0700 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA09373; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 17:21:13 -0400 Date: 08 Apr 96 17:17:51 EDT From: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> To: "sfraves@hyperreal.com" Subject: Sunset Boat Perfection Message-ID: <960408211751_71165.755_GHL128-5@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk Thank you Pacific and everyone who put that party together yesterday! Everything about it was really great! The music was right on, and the two rooms were always completely different -- between two rooms of dancing, a front deck, a back deck, and a roof deck, there was always some place to go to for a new sound or scene! THe Red and White Fleet is a good boat choice, lots of outdoor seating, and the crew were really nice, security was mellow - I'll never forget sailing under the Golden Gate Bridge with that amazing older windsurfer guy pacing us and waving! Or coming up along Angel Island, looking like we were Gulliver landing on a fairy tale island. Or going under the Bay Bridge, a totally urban feeling, hearing the cars overhead, then it got silent as we went underneath -- the woman next to me said "It's an eclipse!" And it was. And it wasn't too crowded! Thanks for a wonderful end to my weekend! Leslie : ) p.s. Yes, Wicked rocked as always -- I have to say, guest djs are a nice change, but I'm always happiest with our local heros! From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 14:25:38 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id OAA16536; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 14:25:38 -0700 Received: from chronos.synopsys.com by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA16528; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 14:25:34 -0700 Received: from atropos.synopsys.com by chronos.synopsys.com with SMTP id AA24846 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 8 Apr 1996 14:25:14 -0700 Received: from clotho.synopsys.com (clotho.synopsys.com [146.225.100.24]) by atropos.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA22688; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 14:25:16 -0700 Received: from [146.225.72.168] (epaul-mac.synopsys.com [146.225.72.168]) by clotho.synopsys.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA24928; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 14:25:14 -0700 X-Sender: epaul@macpo-1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 14:25:16 -0800 To: Leslie Ayres <71165.755@compuserve.com> From: epaul@Synopsys.COM (Eric P. Peterson) Subject: Re: What is house dancing? Cc: sfraves@hyperreal.com Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk >Eric said.... >My impression is that the circle dancing is a leftover of the horrible >break-dancing era, and that those who circle dance are just showing off >their moves. If there's a more honorable motive for it, I'd like to >know... > Leslie said: >Hey Eric, come on, there's nothing dishonorable in showing off your moves... I >know from personal experience that you like to watch people dance ; ) >... and >circle dancing is a chance for people who love to dance to share their stuff, >and appreciate each other -- yes, it's originally from street dancing, and it's >different than when we dance alone and trance out, or collectively and get that >amazing group energy ... but it can be way fun too! I love to watch circle >dancers - when they're not too aggressive about overtaking all the good dance >space! To which Eric replies: What I meant to say was that I'd like to think there's more to it than people just trying to look cool or compete for whose moves are the dopest. If self-expression and fun are the motives, I'm good with that, but I'm not good with a "Yo, check me out" attitude. But I do like to watch everyone dance. They all look like they know what they're doing. Some look like they've spent lots of time and effort to learn what they do. I, on the other hand, don't know any "moves," so I let the music move me... All good, - E From sfraves-owner@hyperreal.com Mon Apr 8 15:21:51 1996 Received: by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) id PAA22535; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:21:51 -0700 Received: from value.net by taz.hyperreal.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA22515; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:21:45 -0700 From: blkadder@value.net Received: (from blkadder@localhost) by value.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA04554; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:21:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 15:21:33 -0700 (PDT) To: "John S. Lee" cc: Kristofer Ananda Carrison , sfraves@hyperreal.com Subject: Re: The Gathering Scam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-sfraves@hyperreal.com Precedence: bulk On Sun, 7 Apr 1996, John S. Lee wrote: > I understand that you like e-mail, and can easily converse in person. My > sources indicate you do so easily and readily (and from personal experience > I do attest). All I suggest is try to do a face to face with Martin, > that's all. I do like e-mail. I conduct many of my day to day activities via e-mail, have made business deals via e-mail,etc. etc. It also has the advantage of allowing one to gather their thoughts before speaking. I am not at all opposed to meeting Martin. I think much of this whole thread has been obfusicated by the feeling that I have something personal against this person. I don't at all. I have attempted to keep my comments general, but have been put in a position where it appears to some that I am striking out against him. > I bought a book today called "Silicon Snake Oil" by Clifford Stoll. He has > struck a chord with me. He says, in the intro: > > "Perhaps our networked world ins't a universal doorway to freedom. Might > it be a distraction from reality? An ostritch hole to divert our attention > and resources from social problems? A misuse of technology that encourages > passive rather than active participation?..." > > I tend to agree with him. It really is a double-edged sword. Many of the interest groups/info really can move people to action by offering a community of people with like interest and concerns. OTOH, it can definitely be used by those who sit behind keyboards, throw insults at people, and take no action to change or understand the things they don't like (much of USENET today....) Like any too